Today on something you should know neat or cluttered, which is a better work environment. Well, it may depend on what you're trying to accomplish then. Are there aliens among us? Is there life on other planets? What does the science say? There's probably a hundred billion stars in our galaxy and at twenty five percent of them, and that's a conservative estimate might have a habitable planet. You're talking about twenty five billion habitable planets you get into the numbers. Game is just overwhelming. Also, I'm sure you talk to yourself out loud. Everyone does so why do we think it's so weird when we see other people do it and If you would give people they try to make you think, you're wrong, they're right there.

Call the gas lighters for gas lighters, lying is like breathing and the only way they know how to interact with peoples through manipulation. So if you try to leave the gas layer will say, everything will be different. This time, please come back now hoovering dislike the vacuum. We're trying to psyche back at all this today on something you should know. something you should now fascinating, enter the world's top experts and practical advice, you can use your life today, something you should now make her. Rather, as taiwan This episode of something you should know is being released in the early hours of thanksgiving morning. So if you're listening on thanksgiving happy skimming and if you're listening after thanksgiving well, I hope you had a good one. First up today, neat or messy, which is better.

Albert einstein was quoted as saying that, if a clutter desk is a sign of a cluttered mind, what then, of an empty desk when he said that he was defending his own habit of being less than neat. But what does science say about messy nests and neatness foreign experts, Mad volunteers were placed in either a clean organised room or a cluttered messy room. They were then ass to complete a series of tasks in these rooms. Such choosing a snack, donating money or figuring out what different uses for ping pong ball results revealed Both rooms had measurable effects on those tasks. For instance, those people placed in a neat room ended up more likely to donate to charity or choose healthy snacks. those in the messy rooms meanwhile tended to outperform their kneader counterparts in creative tasks. When the volunteers were asked to choose between a new product or an older, well known product, those in

cluttered room chose the new product more often, while those in the orderly room went for the classic, more reliable item, Turning to the lead researcher, these results suggested a neat atmosphere, encourages convention and playing it. Safe while messy environments seem to inspire breaking free of tradition, which and produce insight. Ok, that's fine! but being messy also has its downside said studies have shown that a messy environment causes stress and in organised home has been linked to improve levels of happiness. So you Argue both sides, the issue and bad. something you should know. A topic. I've never discussed before on this podcast is ufos. End are their aliens out there, because, while the conversation can get a little wacky, yes, there are plenty of peace

who claimed to have seen a? U f, o and have encountered aliens, but the hard evidence that these events really involve creatures from another planet. It's pretty sparse I have always believed that if aliens are going to come all the way to earth from some galaxy far far away, why we, They do that. Why make the trip and then just visit a guy sitting in a row boat in a swamp in the middle of the night? Why not? land the spaceship at noon in the middle at times square and say we're here. still it's an intriguing idea that there is life out there. Whether or not any of these lifeforms have travelled to earth so the real science say joining me discuss, that is Michael wall, he's a senior writer at space dot com whose work appeared in scientific, american and NBC television, and he is author of the book out there. A scientist

guy to alien life, anti matter and human space travel for the cosmic curious. I michael welcome. hi thinks we're how merrily appreciate it. You bet So since you're, a science guy? Where do you come down on this topic? I have we been visited by aliens. Are their aliens out there what your take theirs going on right now, that's kind of like reshaping our own thoughts about our place in the universe and whether we might be alone and- and I mean I'm, not a conspiracy theorist. I don't think that that the? U S, government has found aliens and his kind of hiding them away in a meat locker an area fifty want anything like that, but found out over the past few years has said there are a lot of extra planets out there that might be suitable for some form of life. Probably, like I mean little microbes and stuff like that and there are even worlds and our own solar system that might be habitable, that that stuff we just been learning in the last decade or so so my own purse, a hunch, is that I think that we are not alone. Theirs is to me

stars out there with planets too many planets and actually might be good for life. And then, mean based on what what happened here, I mean microbes got started here on earth about four billion years ago. So I was pretty much as gaston is like. Our planet had come down enough after its formation to support life. That's when life got going so that suggest that it's not that hard for that to happen, which, which further suggest That'S- probably happened elsewhere too, but it still speculation right has just because it's possible doesn't mean we have evidence of it yet I don't think that we've found evidence of a visitation or of intelligent life. I mean people have been looking for that, and I mean I know there. There are a lot of people out there who who who to see strange things in the sky or claim to have been visited, nominate discounting if the people in saying that they're crazier they have ulterior motives or anything like that. I just don't think that that the evidence for intelligent life is like and meets that standard that the

We can accept that it's out there. I mean we're trying to find it, and I am optimistic that it's out there somewhere, but I, but I don't think that we found any any concrete of signs of yet of intelligent life. What about non intelligent life yeah, that's an interest. in question. There are some people out there who claim that we do that that we have found evidence of it there there there a group of scientists. You still think that, like the viking mars missions back in the seventies, they actually. And evidence of of some kind of microbes, life on mars and I mean more scientists, don't think so, so that their more scientists who think that we we may well have have already found evidence of some kind of alien microbes and chiefly mars microbes, but yet it This, though, like standard of proof is so high, and this is this- is one his finds that will go down in in yahoo History has maybe the greatest scientific discovery ever so there's there's a huge heard, Alta to sort of clear for it for that to be,

did you know this is one of the ethical discoveries of all time that we're talking about scientists, I'm just gonna, be like yeah that that's probably right there can demand something really convincing. the conversation about life swear. It is. Sense of when that started in a way I mean, is this a fairly recent phenomenon with the advent of of modern science, people started to think: hey will maybe there's something out there or have people then speculating about this first, you know thousands of years or is it somewhere in the middle or what yeah? This goes back to the ancient greeks pretty much near there. Looking up in the skies and kind of thinking about what might be out there. Then that's been an undercurrent throughout scientific thought for ever since then, but it had always been kind of a fringe proposition or a fringe field, and but that's really in the last fifteen twenty years or so, and that's as the result of some discoveries we ve made em. You know there's a ton of extra planets out their army, no every star that you see in the sky, on average, has there hasn't

one star and probably twenty five none of those stars have have a planet in the habitable zone, that's about like the same size as our own planet, so like a world that we think might be capable of actually supporting life as we know it, and that's just a huge number I mean talk about, there's probably a hundred billion stars in our galaxy and if twenty five, none of them and that's a conservative estimate- might have a habitable planet new talking about twenty five billion habitable planet. I mean when you get into the numbers. Game is just overwhelming, and so people have started taking the serious and which we in this house something that's just on us and in the last ten or fifteen years mean people always kind of suspected that there are a lot of planets out there, but it's one thing to suspect and it's not a thing to go, find them and not that's what scientists really started to do in the last decade or so, but just me

as planets, have life on them and the numbers arts seem staggering, that the the chances are so likely doesn't necessarily mean they have spaceships, and you know the silver suits and helmets, and you know it just it just means there could be plant life there could be dinosaurs. There could be MIKE probes emanated, it's a big jump to go from their life, another plan, that's too we must have been visited. Yet that and the really good point, because I mean, if you look at our own earth dummy got going here about probably about or a billion years ago. But but it stayed my romeo only for actually more than three billion years after that soaps, and we not see animals in in the fossil, accurate and multi cellular organisms. Don't start popping up until about six hundred million years ago. so there is a long stretch like three point: four billion years, where there are only microbes on earth,

suggests that a me while I may not be too hard for microbial if to get going. There is some like pretty yeah yeah. I heard all that have to cross to actually forming animals plants, complex organisms and then they're all these other hurdles along the way I mean. After that happen, it still took hundreds of millions of years fort for us to have on. You know where I we're only here species, probably about about you, a thousand years old- and only one hundred years having become truly technological. So life on earth? It took probably about a billion years from when the first microbes got going to the time when we are capable of actually reaching out to other planet I mean building spaceships, ending radio waves out new space, that's taken. Four billion years. So it seems like that's a pretty hard thing to do. can science do you think with its very hi bar, can it right off all of the

wherefore sightings and the alien contact. All the stories of vienna, I was captured by an alien Is it just human nature that that people will be people and they'll make stuff up like that or that or they'll be delusional, and actually think that an answer and can just say I don't wanna discount p His personal experiences, I dont, claim to know what people think they saw or what what light happened when, when somebody Traumatic experience or thought there were visited, I mean, like what I will say, though, is that people need to keep an open mind. I mean I think, like a year, half an hour or so you know hit the news. It was big story that these, like navy, pilots there, so there's a foot java, that weird light blob thing like zooming off off the coast of They have san diego and there was symbolic pilots, nobody knew what it was. It was on the front page in the europe times mean somebody who had immediately just claim that that's nothing in that we should investigate it. I mean I dont, think that that

that that that was an alien spacecraft. I think they're they're, probably other explanations for what it could have been, but I think what people just need to keep it mind and actually think about that, is like a real possibility and an end to investigate it. Don't just like dismissed out of hand- and I think that's that's important in that's. That's part of a scientific mindset is to not just just like dismay, one hypothesis out of hand, because it seems weirder, crazy Michael wall is my guest. He is a senior writer at space, dot com and he's author of the book out their assigned if a guide to alien life, anti matter and human space travel for the cosmic lee curious, so Michael. It seems that every discussion about aliens and you f owes point always comes back to area, fifty one that this place in it. Desert area. Fifty one is where the government has something going on they ve come should an alien and they're keeping it there and

So what is area fifty one and why is it so tied to this discussion? It is a real sophie, and yet it was a military facility. I may I think it still is in its like over the years It was pretty much like an advanced aircraft testing facility, which would explain like the secrecy. You know they're, there are developing military aircraft technology there and there are signs up to four. but a stay out, and it was all cryptic and nobody would talk what was happening there, because they were actually developing advance military technology there and like when you secrecy. That's when you can get conspiracy theories, and so that's like the colonel at the back at the heart of the area. Fifty an myth that there are no alien spacecraft there, that there are no alien bodies there. That also speaks to tackle, as a species. We, like I mean, are like brains like to connect dot is that necessarily there and, of course, if the dots form a very interesting picture than we see on them, it just more funds actually believe that their.

And crazy going on there. It just makes us happy. It makes us excited to think about, and I think that's that sort of part of the psychology goes into these conspiracy theories to even if is life on other planets, They so far away that to go. There would be a mean impossible because it would take hundreds hundreds, if not thousands, of years to get their yeah? I mean with our current technology. Just to give you like a little perspective, the closest approximate. Centauri close. The start of the sun is about four point, two light years away: It doesn't sound like a lot, but but like a light years very very far, and it would take us about a hundred thousand years if we launch like a traditional spacecraft with a chemical rocket, that's how long it would take for us to actually get their people are trying to fines. I'm trying to invent faster technology fell proportion technology, but we are really close to anything that would be capable of like propelling here. This at any kind of fraction, of the speed of light, which is what we need. The add that, as one explanation

possibly why we haven't like gotten a visit, because, even if these intelligent aliens are out there, it would just be so hard to go across the huge depths of space and you'd have to be really motivated to actually it took to spend on energy and all that time and is just clear if, like reason that we have it like how to visitors, because there's nobody out there at least nobody around in our neighbourhood or, if they're just hasn't, been significant motivation for them to mount kind of mission which would take so much time and so much effort? I mean oughta people who wonder about why we haven't been visited with all those numbers that talk much earlier. If it seems like should be somebody out there? Why haven't we ve gotten any peep side of them or any visits yeah. That's that's just one of the possible explanations: labour strikes, climate change, or crappy office printer. What are they all have in common wealth, about the money. Economic, is everywhere and everything fuelling our lives, even where you least expected

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the sky and it looks like lights in mid, disappears and It's a u forwards in unidentified flying object, and you know, of course, just because can identify something, doesn't mean it's an alien. It just means you can identify something, but what does anyone ever follow up with those and figure out what they were or are a lot of those really. We we have no idea, and that's really point of view of those do exist because there are things, people see that they can identify. So it's not like those are myths. People, do you see things like what is that and if you can identify it, it's you if they get their astronomers out there. Who who do so too the catalogue of those and try to check them out and try to figure out what people saw their usually Actually a planet, it's usually venus or something you know cause because people look up in the skies and there they are astronomers and they're, not like totally clued into it to what's up there, so they see a bright light and me there, they're like driving down a road or something it looks like the lights moving and they hadn't noticed it before

It turns out a lot of times. It's actually a bright planet such as like venus or or actually saturn, can get pretty bright to june. Get pretty bright, what is a lot of times me a lot of times it's an airplane or some other aircraft. That's the say what it turns out to be, but a mean yeah, That being said, there are cases over the years that people have investigated and still don't know what they were on me. It doesn't match up with a plan and it doesn't seem like it was an aircraft, but nobody really knows, and so yeah me you can't discuss, everything and say we have all the answers to everything that there are still. There is still some sightings people have actually looked into and don't really know what what they were, but because dont know what they were doesn't mean. They were alien, spacecraft coming to colonise and take us over right eye. I agree with that very much just I mean just because we don't know what something is doesn't mean. You should immediately jump to the most exotic explanation, that's chances are. That is something that we just haven't thought about here on earth. That's far more likely,

and it was an alien spacecraft because I mean- and you have, if you think about it, a little bit of alien spacecraft, they what they would have to be incredibly advanced, actually make it year far more advanced than than we are. So you would think that if they wanted to stay, hidden from us they could easily do that. So it seems weird that they would sort of. They would come here and stay hidden to most of us, but expose themselves to a few people out in the buoys and for sums The reason I mean it just doesn't make a lot of sense to me right. Well, as I was said in the beginning, aids, they never land in times square and there are always out in a swamp or in some very rural area were hardly anybody is the person whose there either doesn't have a camera or manages to get some very blurry images that the ass sort of maybe look like. I guess that could be an alien yeah and if an alien spaceship did and on times square in five hundred thousand people got picked. cover with their cell phone. Then then that we could talk

you're right now. Ok, now, that's what I call proof. That's you. yes, really something an entity It is interesting that in public culture anyway, that that there is sort of a theme commonality of what aliens might look like. And am I wonder where that comes from his it just somebody's creation and me why why do people think they would look so different than us, or would they look different than us? Her yet Those are all really interesting questions and I mean I think there are a couple answers to the like. Why do we think that they that they look like us sorta thing I mean, first of all because of the golden age of sci fi, which has really started in the fifties and went through the sixties was star trek and all those shows I mean there is, see g back, then really so you had to have like a human and costume playing an alien, so it's just easier and a lot cheaper to just pay their faces blue or put some bumps.

But give them horns or something, but they still had like a very humanoid shape, because I just was practical, so that kind of became enshrined as lake as sort of as the alien and me we're on, more two creatures we can identify with in stories and film surfaces. It's so alien, it doesn't kind of grab us. I mean if you do a show about a sentient blob of gas or something where it's just not going to hook us as much as if, if the protagonist kind of looks like us from acts like us. We can identify with it. Where are we now and where are we headed with space tat, in general, it does, you know, doesn't seem like we do a whole lot of it like we use to- or at least it doesn't get the press that it used to but I mean there are people on the space station. I mean they're, theirs going on. So what's the? What what's it look like? Are there any big advances in space travel, there's like going on in in the private space sector in august?

musk is an obvious waterman spacex. They are working to actually get us get get humans. I think going on mars. Elon musk wants to have like a million person city on mars in the next century, or so, and he's serious about that. That's not a stunt! That's what he that's, why he founded spacex into that and two was for that reason, So that's really exciting. I dont know if it's gonna happen as quickly or to the dramatic extent that that he hopes it does, but I would not like discount with they're trying to do at all, and then there are other people with very deep pockets, trying to help or similar things. I've been bees us jet lamb, the richest man in the world has his own private space. What company called britches called blue origin like that will get us presses space actually have been a little more under the radar, they have similar aims. I mean here, they ve said that their Main goal is to get millions of people living and also working in space, and so there so working to set two gonna, get us there in a sustainable way.

not sure when all this stuff is is gonna happen. People have been dreaming. These sort of the these, like utopians streams for a while, but now there's people with deep pockets and advanced technology, you're actually doing it. So I mean I'm, I'm like pretty optimistic about that as far as human settlement going to the moon going to mars getting off earth for the first time in a real Dana beware thing I think that's coming in the next generation or so so what keeps you up at night, but thing that year most excited about when you look to the skies and look up at the sky. As well what is it? That's really pumping you up it's what we ve learned in the past ten years, or so with like how many exo planets there are, how many of them might be suitable for our own type of life, a mean what what we define life to be, and I mean how many that there they're a handful places and our own solar system there there. These moons me out our solar system, jupiter, moons and

one man of saturn humans of saturn, actually that have subsurface oceans that could support life. I mean I think, that work that we're. Gonna discover some sort of simple life fairly and maybe the next ten years, twenty years me, that's just a hunch, I'm just predicting it, but I mean I think, we're getting to the place where we can actually be optimistic about that and like we can mount missions, What really answer one of the most fundamental questions in the universe is: are we alone and um? I'm that's what, most excited about. I, like, I think, were in a good spot to actually start tackling this This amazing question that people been thinking about for thousands of years One thing I am asking about earlier and because it's one thing for peace out in the swamp to say you know they ve been visited by aliens, but we do here. Sometimes airline pilots see things military pilot see things in theoretically these

people are more knowledgeable about what's out in the sky to see so. Does anybody come back and say: well dear, we figured that out or no that's why we don't know what he so yeah yeah then those are some of the sightings people take it's the most seriously people who who are used to looking at the sky and light and and know what they're looking at most of the time so yeah. If, if an airline, let military pilot see something weird than that. That would get a little more credence than just so person on the burning issue, saw weird, lighten the sky. I wasn't sure what it was yet and so did you investigators people who come to try to get to the bottom of this. They like they would probably take like an airline pilots citing a little more seriously and investigated a little more rigorously may be than the average citing definitely they do what happens typically, yet I mean. Usually it turns out to be something like very prosaic. Just just in most cases, but yeah that there are some that they haven't explained where there are not

sure what it was and on and in summer cases you know I mean it might be an advanced aircraft that was being tested by the military and moves really fast and we're not sure where it came from her like the government will talk about it. That's always like up the ability to and maybe maybe even like military firepower, it's our privy to what that like machine is that was being tested and what wouldn't know about its movements that that's always possibility when you're talking about like seeing sites in the sky. It's important to keep an open mind. I think I'd that we should dismiss any ideas out a hand. what like everyone else. I have looked up at the stars at night and wondered are we alone will creatures come to visit us? Have they already? kind of boggles the mind in its fun to speculate, but it's also good to have a bit of the grounding in the science of it all Michael boy, has been my guest. He is a senior writer at space, dot com and his book is called out there, a scientific,

I D, alien life, anti matter and human space travel for the cause, curious, there's a link to book in the show notes, thanks for being here, Michael none. I really appreciate it. U s really good questions and does we fund a talk about? I'm almost certain you ve had this problem, you need a doctor. You ask your friend, maybe a look on line whose a good doctor, someone who actually will listen to you and make you feel like you're in good hands. And then you one and then it turns out that doctor doesn't take your insurance or they don't have an appointment for three months. This is exactly why doc was created. I've been telling you about zadok for awhile zack donkeys, free up where you can find amazing doctors and book appointments online, we're talking about booking appointments with thousands of top rated patient review, doctors and specialists, and you can filter specifically for ones who

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it's hard to imagine going through life and not having to deal with manipulative people. These are the people who make you feel gonna. Try to make you think that there's something wrong with you. If you don't do what they want or think the way they do, there's it for this is called the gas lighting and it refers to a play from the nineteen thirties that was made into a movie in the nineteen forties, call the gas lighting with china, the boy and Ingrid Bergmann, where the husband, manipulates his wife to try to make her she's going crazy by telling her that the lights that she sees flickering are not really flickering that hearing in seeing things that are there when they clearly are She has somehow lost valuable items that he is purposely removed to the point where she just she can't trust yourself any more. She must trust him because she must be going crazy,

There is a book about this call the gas lighting by stephanie circus she's, a licensed mental health counselor who says that Ass lighters, use your own words against you, lady or face deny your needs plot against. You turn family and friends against you and more. I suspect you ve come across these type of paypal or maybe even have them in your life today and Stephanie joint may to discuss this. I stephanie welcome. Thank you for having, So my first question is where's the line because we're all trying to manipulate and persuade other people- I mean we're human and that's what we do, whereas we now gate through life. We try to get people to do what we want them to do so Wendy. Become abusive because we're all manipulating others to some extent.

That's an excellent point. We all use influence to get what we want. We see that advertising. We see that in sales again. Yes, we do that to each other too. This is where it's used deliberately to abuse. People is to control and usually when we're using influence, we're not trying to control or abuse people we're just trying to get them to see our way very different. This is taking some was reality and completely lying about it and turning it on on its head and blue lying to the point where you dont noticed. The little lies because they seem so inconsequential compared to the huge lies, you're being told so as a whole different flavour to it. So give me an example. Sure someone saying that what you saw or heard never happened. As someone hiding their staff in and blaming you for, a? U stealing it or hiding it on them. When they in fact did it all, pitting you against people, saying you sound so said something about you, that are going to sell, and so you just get mad at that person and that's what Ass later wants a gas lighter once you get mad at other people, see you clean closer to the gas later on,

sabotaging you at work, taking credit for your work. It goes beyond that is also going to the bottom line. To the boss about something that you didn't, do So I tell you things we better. If only you did blank, and this happens, I especially couples. I see in therapy, one will say: well, if you just fix this person that everything be fine. That's a tip off to me that there is some gaslight in going on. So why? Is it an end? I dont know what, if there's any numbers, or you know what percentage of the people are gas lighters, but what why would Why would I do this? Why would I other than to just be a jerk? Why would I tell you something that isn't true or or arson the ties you. Why do people do this for gas lighters lying is like breathing Its essential their well being and the only way they know how to interact with people or manipulation. They do something cognitive, empathy and what that means is the express you feelings, but they are really feeling them. They'll

feelings, the way they they think you wanna hear them, so they may apologized for something, but has not a heartfelt apology. It's in a palace that's made in order to get you back into their grasp? So if you try to leave the gas layer will say everything will be different. This time. Please come back. That's called hoovering just like the backing, and the trend is sucking back in because we ass lighters no longer have then narcissistic attention they will you get out and again I ll try to get you back in the relationships. I tell people. If you leave me, I guess I you need to go. No contact, no phone calls emails block. All of that, because the person will try to get you back if they haven't already moved on. So from a perspective, The person on the receiving end of this help me understand what that's like. What is it feel like What is it seem like when gas lighting is happening to you, so what it looks like this social roads or self esteem, and so they will pig too little by little now back up and say that at the beginning of the relationship gaslight

we'll do something called love bombing. They'll. Tell you are wonderfully you are, and that feels good to anybody, but the gas later overdoes it they'll pushed for commitment very quickly. But then before. author pedestal, they placed you on and then they do something called devaluing, which means you can do nothing right, no matter how hard you try. The gas later will tell you that you're not pay enough attention to them that unita quit your job and pay more attention to them, and but that needle never get filled sear in this constant struggle of trying to fill them. Needs, are never gonna be met, is incredibly frustrating for peace, well and- and this gets back to my first question- I guess- is too where's the line, because the things that you just mentioned- lying amid people do things to try to get their way sometimes, but that doesn't from a gas lighter we can lie just once in a while cause we're human right, but this is a pattern of behavior, so yeah when you leave a relationship and you want to get back with that person, you say: oh things will be different. This time

could really mean it, but a gas later it's a means to an end. There is a big difference between I'm gonna work on changing this- and I just want you back so I can fulfil that need to get attention is a whole different scheme, and it also depends on what behaviors led up to that said. He someone saying that what you saw and heard is real and that's all off you with the gas later, rather than just someone that they just occasionally tells you white lies what about you know in an argument when someone says well, that's what I said sort of sounds gas lady, but that's not really gas lighting, because at that could just be a legitimate difference between as I said, and what you heard. That's that gas lighting and even if you tell your partner, hey, I have an issue with this thing. You did and let's talk about it, that's not gaslighting, but telling someone. I don't like the color, your eyes or you know you need to lose weight. That's more gasoline type behavior and again we have to look at the whole scheme of their behaviors, but if you

I never considered a partner's way. You say hey. Can we talk about this? I'm really concerned about your health. You don't go up to them and just make a really crass comment about their weight. really depends on how it's done, and also the motivation behind it and examine the gas later makes comments and criticisms is too trolling, rather than to work together to solve an issue? I don't the color of your eyes. Really somebody hell even del even get into that type of behaviour, because what you're trying to do are trying to just set you off? They want to keep you off kilter, because what the other thing they do is they criticise you with a compliment you in the next sons and that's really confusing, because ass lighters. They may act bad you, eighty percent of the time at twenty percent of the time they could find and that's what guy People cannot reeled into these relationships is causing people are about all the time, but my feeling as if viewed them asian ships, good. percent of time and bad twenty percent and abusive is still an abusive relationship and his best to get out.

one might wonder why you got into the relationship in the first place or or at least when this behaviour started, showing up little sirens don't go off? Saying I gotta get out of this is nuts I gotta get out of here These gases are so good, a hiding their behaviour therein. Even ban people that are mental health specialists have guns relationship because, on the first day again, these people are completely normal. They do cognitive empathy. They look like completely normal they're, not sociopath ec, and they will act. just the way you want them to, and then when they know that they ve got you sucked into relationship, then start revealing his behaviors little by little, because they cannot keep that mask of normalcy on for that long you'll see it start slipping and they'll start trying to get into these behaviors, and the other interesting thing is, even if you record these people saying stuff, if they've told you that what you heard isn't real and you show them the recording an album, listen to it. They'll still deny it, even though you have undeniable proof in front of you,

they'll say: will you just misunderstood it or del focus on the fact? Why does your record me instead of the fact that or blatantly lying to you We have any numbers and me now many people do this upheaval. Personally disorders, particularly souci apathy and narcissism. It's about two to five percent of population, however, we don't have any solid percentages on gas lighting. Behaviors is not a diagnosis and our diagnostic manual, but other. Apples, I see I say probably about forty percent of them have at least one partner that engages in gasoline behaviors now adds for that, though, that I primarily work with people with a d h, d and anxiety, and I They tend to be more prey of gas lighters because they tend to be more concerned with how other people are feeling they tend to feel like they are missing something in life, and so they are more likely to accept the behaviour of the gas later, and I

gas leaders on a certain level of says that, and they know that they know that that person made tolerate more than other people. Would it would came to me, and I imagine two other people listening to this, I don't I've ever been on the receiving end of a gas lighter, but it would to me that I wouldn't put up with this for minute I mean if someone is telling me when the lights flickering that they're not flickering if so and tells me that the sky is green. When I know it's blue, I'm and I mean it, doesn't seem like this. This would be hard to say goodbye to an I think that you would know right away when someone was doing this and that you will be tough and offer strong enough a resilient enough

to know this is happening, and that's one of the reasons why people tend to stay in these relationships because they feel, like other people, are gonna believe believe them that this person so terrible, especially on this person projects. A pretty good from to the outside world image, is very important to gas lighters and us- tell other people that you're crazy. So if you go to those people, they'll say all while they already told me that you're a little off so- I believe, so, a lot of people think they would not be subject to this, but they have been Interesting to me, how many people are very competent, intelligent p and yet they have become of it of gasoline, whether in a relationship on a global scale, because if you start believing something you cannot be too weird from that and ass. The really ricky part about gas lighting and again you're in a relationship, it becomes kind of stockholm syndrome where you become attached to your captor, so to speak by and also is very difficult for you to leave. At the same time it does,

make a lot of sense from the outside, but people that have experienced this they'll tell them says you're. How could I have believed this stuff is personal telling me again one of the reasons why people are afraid to seek help because concern that people are gonna, believe them that they are subject to this. Is there any concern that maybe we're just being a little too sensitive here about some of this- that just Because somebody says something to you: doesn't make you a victim that that people are sick, art and in many cases not all I'm sure there are gas lighters who are very convincing in really messed with people's minds, but but Joe because someone attempts to try to manipulate you doesn't make you a victim I mean people are smart. People are tough they can see what it is and and move on other people out there victims. These relationships are tough issues. They are with people that will do whatever it takes to a road them. So I you have.

While there have been subject to years of abuse, because gasoline is emotional abuse, so we tell people are victims of abuse that you're just being too sensitive retooling, negating the fact that they are being abused and again it's one of the reasons why people that are in an abusive relationship tend to lee, because a really concerned at the outside world can see them as weak when they are anything but weak. But you ve talked about this, in terms of relationships. If somebody just says something like this to someone you know, casual at a party. That's not gas, lighting, I'm not because someone said this to me: I'm not now a victim of it. Just somebody said something. I don't know what they're talking about an and my life carries Just fine,

it's a series of behaviors I'll say that again, so it's not just one behavior, it's a series of things that you see. So, if I just say to you, I don't like to assure you are wearing yeah: that's not gaslighting, but if I've been telling you repeatedly that you're worthless or I've been telling you that you didn't see me cheat on you or see that on my phone, I you you just kind of you're making it up and you shouldn't bet at my phone anyway, so I'm gonna focus on that and you are hiding your staff and bleary somebody for it task flame agar, but some god she had a party say. I don't like what you're doing. That's like us it's a series of avery sheets, ripped it within a relationship it's anyone that has the ability to power control over others. So in most cases, does this just go on forever? I mean it would seem. It would just seem to me that at all point was to everybody would say, wait a minute is enough. I know what I saw. I know what the who fears? I know being manipulated. I'm out, I'm done

there's usually a watershed moment, and usually what that is. Is it's a family, member or friend confronting the person saying look. You know we've talked about this before this person is unhealthy. These are the behaviors I'm seeing and we to figure out how to get you out. That's usually like ass people out of that situation, and again as really tough, because in some cases people's safety is threatened and that's right I recommend that people are concerned about their safety, to contact to domestic violence, shelter, for I knew opinions or ideas about how to get out safely. Also, european family really helpful, particularly cognitive, behavioral therapy, which is a style of counselling. that I'm gonna research has been shown to help a lot of people that have been in these abusive relationships because it takes a while to build up your self esteem and your ability to feel comfortable trust. Other people again does it Does it often escalating violence? Can't quieted in fact, I tell gas layers that, when they're leaving relationship make sure you take your pet with you because ghastly,

we will use manipulation, techniques and user padding as too and even abuse at or or kill it so very important that people take their pat with them. and do you as an expert on this. Do you see this getting worse, getting better or or has it always been there and were just now talking about it? movie was seventy years ago. The play was eighty years ago, so obviously the the concept has been around but were how is it moved? What's the trend is better. For a while, but I think a millstone abuse really wasn't taken seriously as a form of abuse is away or not being head, but has just as much a form of abuse as any other eyes. I think, though, that the fact were seen as on a global scale and being a more attention is being brought. I think people are recognising more of this is happening to them in the workplace and at home, and with family and friends. When I imagine relationship where this is happening, I'm imagining that

the male. Is the gas lighter in the female is the victim, but is that always or mostly the case- is actually equal across genders. I may use the pronoun he just as default bite. It is equal across some men and women equally can be gas lighters. Why figure the surprise. I think that that you know from the movie on forward me you think of of men, that much more male kind of behavior. I think and I can be a stereo type of it, but definitely I've seen where is pretty equal across the board well, I remember watching the movie and watching Charles boy in thinking boy he's really good. At this I mean he is really got her thinking he's crazy. But then it's just movie, but, as you point out this, this is real life too, and worthy of discussion. Stephanie. marcus, has been my guess. She is author of the book, gas lighting, recognise, manipulative and emotionally abusive people and break free, theirs,

to her book in the show notes, thanks for me, Stephanie house Thank you Here's an interesting quirk of human beings. You do thing that are embarrassing, that if you see other people, do you may laugh or judge them for doing them, but you do him too, for example, talking to yourself. You ve just answer stupid and your reprimanding yourself out loud or you're, asking yourself a question out loud when someone walks in the room suddenly you look like a crazy person, but talking to yourself, is not only insanely common. In fact, we all do it a couple of times a day and some people, much more than that, but it can also be a sign of good things. Studies show that talking to yourself helps you keep more focused and alert. Repeating a story while you

probably know if you ve told a story before it turns out that people have a very difficult time recalling who they told it to lying about seeing a movie when it comes important movies or important books. People lie about it because they want to appear smart surprising number of people lied about seeing the godfather movie in a two thousand and eleven poll getting song lyrics wrong. Song lyrics are, as you know, how to make out. Sometimes so we make up what we think we hear this ring the irritates, those people who really do know the lyrics, but those people probably get them rex to other songs wrong. So we shouldn't too quick to judge, and that is something you should know. We are now officially in the holiday season, and we have lots of great episodes coming up for you in the coming weeks. So please subscribe, This podcast, wherever you listened podcast and share it with a friend I might

brothers thanks for listening today to something you should know packing benjamin's with Joe and his good friend oji. Not only has great financial insight, its lay back with humour to the le pen's, oh say much survey I wanted to know. Was it really cheaper to around bag it every day, or was it cheaper to go through these school lunch? The most expensive sandwich of all forty six percent increase is the first time a sandwiches ever touched five bucks before anybody gags on at them. It's a great sandwich find out more by searching the stacking benjamin's pie cast wherever you listen,