Today on something you should know. You know what to do when you get a cold right. Well, maybe not everything. I've got a few ways to feel better. You probably haven't heard, then being it. Tidy may seem a better way to go, but times messy. This is even better. As I said, I'm tired. Personally, like things tiding, I like things organised when they can be very often they can't be, and if we can it Grace that disorder we connect find it's turning to our advantage, then, have you ever why you get a runny knows every time you cry I'll, explain and some great house impacts. I know he'll love a fine line if he had a glass shower doors that get the nasty to come. Do that a dryer sheet can be used, grabbed the shower doors. They worked like a charm, although today,

something you should know now. Your ideas don't have to wait now they Everything they need to come to life del technologies and Tell our creating technology that loves ideas, loves expanding your business eve. solving your passions? We push what technology can do great ideas can happen right now find out. To bring your ideas to life at del dot. Com. Slash welcome to now. something you should now fascinating into the world's top experts and practical advice you can use in your life today, something you should make her rather as much It is true where you live, but where I live, it seems, like everybody has a cold right now I have. I have a cold right now and I I've had to

colds right in a row which I've never had before. I had one at the end november early december a came, it went and then I got another one. So if you have a cold, you have plenty of good company, and web m d has some things you should do when you have a cold that you might not have heard before. That can really help until somebody comes up with a cure. First is to use one of those nasal strips. You know those breathe right. Nasal strips! You will be amazed how they can open up your nose, so you can breathe. Also take a hot shower before you go to bed, because the steam- and they humidity will help clear out your sinuses

here you ve heard the chicken soup is good. Research shows that eating a hot chicken soup is more effective than sipping a hot water to clear out your sinuses. Although nobody really knows why there's one, I bet you don't know, you should avoid cold drinks before bed, because cold drinks can increase stuff this user Sally nasal rents to clear out your nose. You know like a Nettie potter, something I've gotten into using, though when I have had a cold in the last few years in, and they really are effective, also be careful of over the counter nasal sprays. They have a rebound effect and if you use them too much, you can actually get addicted to them and at actually happen to me many years ago. I I I was a nasal spray at it and it was hard to kick and finally, dont prop your head up with pillows, because that causes an unnatural bend in the neck and it makes it harder to breathe it's better

to use a wedge shaped pillow that elevates? You from the waste up- and that is something you should know, ask anybody which is better to be neat or to be messy, and my guess is most people will say it is better to be neat. Neatness counts in our culture, a neat house, a need desk. A neat room are all preferred when people are messy there often admonished beneath but when people are neat, no one ever says you know you should be more messy, but could messiness be better for some people and in some situations Can you make the case for messiness? Actually, and perhaps surprisingly, yes and here to make that case, is tim Harford TIM is an award winning journalist, economist and author of quite a few books, including messy the power of

sworder to transform our lives ate him. Welcome it's great to be with you, so here's my take on messenians cause. I've heard people talk about this subject on this programme and in the radio show. I did for many years, and I have heard both sides of the argument and it seems to come down from my observation to this. That need people think need is better and messy people think messy is better and that whatever works works. It's really is, personal preference. I think that's fair, although I think something I've learned. While writing a book is that misuse works in certain situations. I should admit I violate your basic pat him, I a tidy person who has written a book trying to persuade

to be more messy. For example, my kitchen is is pretty much always tidy or as tidy as it can be with three children in the house, but my study desk sometimes is tiny bit of it. It gets messy and then I kind of struggle with that night. I tried tidying up at it, won't be tightened up and- and I'm too, I have been asking myself what's going on and I I've come to realize that a different approach works for different situations and that the thing about the kitchen, for example, is you know everything has a place now? If I want to be tidy, there's a place for the knives there's a place for the glassware there's a place for the cutlery. I can put everything away and I often do, but it's not so simple. With the desk, I mean yeah sure I can. I can have a place for the the sticky tape and I can have a place for the pens, but in what what's the place for

well yeah the the latest letter? The emails? You don't want to read right now, but you need you need to deal with them later and I that the thing about the desk as it's in constant motion and if you try to tidy it up and that can actually have counterproductive effects. Well that you- and I are very much alike, as occurs things that are easy to need are kept need, but, as you You know life isn't always so need. Is that kitchen, so I'm pretty need, but then I also have a messy death often as well so but but my preference would be that things were neat. It's just not always of the reality. are you and me, and benjamin franklin as well, I'm invent benjamin franklin is a wonderful example of this So the man needs no introduction right. One of the greatest americans who ever lived and

you may be aware and that he had this thing called his virtue journal. I mean it's, I think it's it's it's your kind of thing. When I read the self improvement, Benjamin franklin as a young man decided, he was going to just himself better in every way he was going to drink last and he was going to less than he was going to be more humble and all of these different things he was gonna, do to improve his life and he he kept it track of every day had he had. He lived up to his principles every week had he lived up to its principles and reflecting back on this at the end of his life and his it is eight is, if I remember rightly, he he's very proud of this virtue journal. He thinks it's worked really well, but he says you know, there's one thing that I could just never conquer. I could never get on top of this.

That was orderliness his principal was, every appointment should go in the right place in the diary. Everything should go in the right place in the study and he could just never concrete and Who knows what he might have been able to achieve if it managed to tidy up hey yeah? I've thought the same thing like what No one, I'm filing bills, for example, and I pay the auto insurance bilbil. Does that get filed under auto or does it get five under insurance. So life isn't always so neat an obvious. It is really crazy, like that. Sometimes you organise things. While this comes from my boss, this comes from my spouse other times it's what this is really urgent and other times is over. This is the kind of thing I want to be reminded of late.

and and and actually there is no right or wrong way to organize any of this stuff. But if we, if we tried to get it organized it, it can often be self defeating one of one of the concepts I loved, while working on this book was and the concept, premature filing, which I was told about by a psychologist, called steve Whittaker who, who studies? Basically, the way we we organise stuff the way we organise digital. We chose the way we organize email. The way we organize our desks and premature filings, beautiful idea. So this is the idea that you some people because they want to be tidy. Something comes into their life. It's a letter. It's an email, it's a task, it's a book and they want it off their desk, and so they they put it somewhere. They create a digital folder and they put it in the digital folder It sent an email folder or it's it's a physical folder or that they put it away on a shelf somewhere, but they haven't

really understood what it is really what they gonna do with it, whether it's the beginning of something big or whether it's just junk? and these things are hard to understand initially and as a result, the filing takes place too early, and then you, you ve, basically put a label on something we ve put it in the final than you do. where it is and you're not reminded of it, and the whole thing just gets really quite gnarly quite quickly on the other and if you a little bit less concerned, a bit less stressed about being tidy, and you just leave the eu I was hanging around for a bit or you. You pile up the paper on your desk and give it a little while, and you start to figure out what you actually do need to do with it and and whether it needs to be filed at all or whether you can just file it in the the big round filing cabinet or underneath your desk, the trashcan and and so people who are willing to tolerate a little bit more mess as she in the end

end up, paradoxically often being better organised and more effective, they have small archives, they know where their stuff is. They make decisions more quickly, so that this was a really interesting point, because whittaker wasn't approaching this from some great philosophical tradition. He was just saying: well, I just carefully look at more people do and what the effects are and premature filing is. It is a real problem. I am speaking with TIM hartford. He is a journalist, economist and author of the book messy the power of disorder to transform our lives. You know that reaction you get when you come across a business that doesn't have a website you think while that's weird, because every business needs a website today. More importantly, every This needs a great website and that's why I'm so excited that square space.

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Visit? U S, cellular dot, com for terms so tim! You are talking a moment ago about premature filing and that that can be a problem, because you end up filing something away where it ultimately doesn't belong and yeah. Ok, maybe that's a problem for messy people, but I would contend that. Maybe that's not such a problem for neat people that neat people put things in a place, perhaps prematurely, but they know right where it is and if it's time to get it and move it that they get it and move it and to not put things in their place, cause you're waiting to figure out where it ultimately goes so to just leave it laying on the desk somewhere causes those p a lot of stress a lot of anxiety and so therefore premature filing is just fine. I think the most important point: is that the world is messy. Our lives are messy conversation

The meciar relationships are messy. Creativity is messy; basically, we are surrounded by disorder, linas everywhere and and by the bye mess. I mean stuff that can't be scripted. if that can't easily be put into categories stuff, that piles up stuff, that is ambiguous and stuff that gets made up on the spot. Ot. All I mean it meant. The word means a lot of different things and big, but because our lives effectively are often very messy and we need to embrace that deal with it face up to it and try to make the most out of it and when we try to impose structure untidiness in a situation where it doesn't fit. We just end up hiding the mass order. With a message very counterproductive way. Now, as I said at the beginning of our conversation, I'm a tidy person. I, like things,

waiting. I, like things, organise when they can be, and sometimes they can be in that's great, but very often they can't be, and if we can embrace that disorder. We can actually find it's turning to our advantage and we, then let me give you a couple, a very quick examples which I am happy to talk about it more length so that the example I begin the book with is the amazing jazz musician. Keith Jarrett, who shows up at a concert to discount, is the biggest concept of his life and he discovers that there's been a mix up and the poor I know, he's supposed to be playing, doesn't really work, there are bits of it are out of tune bits of it sound bad bits of it. Sticking the pedals aren't really working and he ends up playing, even though he doesn't really want to play and producing one of his best pieces of music and certainly his most commercially successful recording because he, in the end, he embraces the disorder

the interesting things we could say about why the disorder worked for him. At another example, will I mean people gotta have very strong feelings about. This example is Donald trump donald trump, and when I read the book he was just a candidate who was in the past didn't, but I wrote about his campaign as being one where he was able to create a lot of chaos deliberately as a strategy. To dominate the media cycle and to wrong foot his opponents, people marker rubio job bush. He was able to use mass as a way of winning this battle for attention, so it also different ways in which men can be made effective. Here is an example. At that I heard a long time ago that that struck me it's a little different than the ones you just mentioned, but it was at a doctor who, who was a medical examiner, and he brought a book about why

die, and he said that this whole idea of death with dignity and and trying to sanitize death death is messy. Business and you know, in the old days, people would die at home and the grand kids would see grandpa die on the couch in and it was messy and horrible, but it was part of life, and today we ve cleaned it up. We ve tried to create death with dignity and make it all clean and prestige, and it isn't it and it never will be. Death is ugly messy business yeah. I think that's a very wise comment. I dont glorify mess in disorder everywhere. I mean it's great. For example, let our computer operating systems are compatible with each other right and his great that now you can plug and a plug into a wall socket, and you know it's gonna write voltage and it's kind of fate, and it's not just a couple of pieces of why I just

revised. I mean there are set Many many examples where structure works and where order works and where tied in us works. But the argument I make is that I don't need to convince anybody that that stuffs good, but I do need to try to convince people that sometimes they need to let go and some something to embrace these more ambiguous or more and unpredictable. disorderly situations so what the. When the dust from all this. What is the advice here? Do you think it? Because there are, there are those people I mean I've already. breast it. I think I am somewhat like you, the I like it need, but life and always needs of. Sometimes things get messy, but. You know I'm in this studio, alot doing this programme when its cleaned up in neat. I do better work. I just do but it is always easy to get always need so so so, seems at some people seem to do better work and I've heard other stories about. You know that when

Is your messy anxiety and stress levels go up and and that when things are neat that you know stress go down. People lose weight. So there's a lot of conflicting in this for ideas going on here. So so, where do you come on all again you could say, and in some ways it to its messy idea, It's a messy book. I should before give the practical advice. I should say by the way there is a an inch and causal question, though, because you're saying oh, you know, when you tidy up stress levels No down. You seem to get more done well, yeah, maybe, but maybe the alternative view of that is when you get you have done, and your stress levels, hello, that's the moment when you get to tidy up when you really busy. everything's going crazy and- and you start to get really stressed, that's also the moment when you, you can't spare the time to tidy up and things don't get messy. I often find myself that yeah, when I'm able to tidy up, I feel very calm

but that's usually because nothing is really going on. I don't have anything important to do and that's why I've got the time to tidy up saying that we need to be careful about what's causing one maybe but asylum, but I say, but I do think that that when things are need, I do feel less stress when things are put away. It means that something I don't have to do and Things are less stressful, but I hear what you're saying that, maybe it's the maybe it's less stressful, because I've got that I mean, there's nothing really pressing sure so, em settled. What's the practical advice, if we're talking about just trying to get things done,

my advice would be to improvise more to rely less on the script. There's a chapter in the book about martin luther king and how much more he was able to communicate, get his points across at the just at the moment where he was forced to step away from the script for want of time. When the press of the civil rights movement was with so great, his duties was so great. He was no longer able to script his speeches. They got better, so trying to improvise make stuff up on the fly, see what happens and if the advice is simply, what do you do with your die? What do you do with your to do list? What you do with your desk and go easy on yourself? Be forgiving of yourself? It's fine to try to get some structure. I like structure in my life,

but you have to recognize. There are certain things that can't be structured easily, and this is Benjamin franklin's problem like he was beating himself up for sixty years about not being able to tidy up. No forgive yourself acknowledge that the email to do lists, desks that this is, and this is always going to be an unsolved problem. It is always going to be a work in progress and you are always going to have to explore different approaches and and not be too down on yourself, as Benjamin franklin was when actually the mess starts to build last question. But when is messy to messy when when is it get to too bad and we lost pictures of those kind of desks where the just everything- everywhere at some point. It has to come, become dysfunctional. I think that's right, you do see incredibly dysfunctional spaces What I would say is most people

on the side of trying to tidy up too much and I would encourage people to just let go a little bit- be a little bit more messy with you with your inbox with a digital files with your desk and see how that works for you so keep it simple. That is the way you're going to deal with this constant influx of of confusing information. If you try to over organise over structure tidy too much tidy too soon, if it works, you great, but most people find their assistants just break down under the strain and they get faster Well, it's it's good to hear, because I think I know for me, and I think this applies to a lot of people that I I'd be need and when it does break down under the pressure when things don't go where they should go cause, there's no place for them. I've, I figure it's my fault and it's nice take get permission to say. No, it's just life. Is there

way, and so don't try to put a square pay. Around whole? It's just it's! It's not gonna work. Tim Hartford has been my guest. He is author of the book messy the power of disorder. to transform our lives and you'll find a link to his book in the show notes. Thank you TIM thanks. Not great tortue labour strikes climate change. You or crappy office printer, what do they all have in common? Well, it's all about the money, economic, is everywhere and everything fuelling our lives, even where you least expected If you're a fan of something you should know, and your curious to learn something new and exciting about money and economics. Each week I recommend you listen to the planet, money podcast from npr, what you enjoy are born. I enjoy about planet money is, it makes the topic of money and economics, it makes it simple interesting,

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joey rights at cleaning advice, column, she has a podcast called ask a clean person and she is author of a book called my boyfriend barf in my hand, bag hi jolie, so so how? How did you get to be this cleaning guru? I would always a clean person even at a child. I was kind of an odd child and I'm definitely an odd adult, and I really love cleaning. It's just that saying that I've always been into oddly enough very weird I know well compared to a lot of the other people who write about and give advice about. Cleaning I mean you, you love this topic, I mean it does seem a little weird anyway, You may be right about that. I know I've. I've actually never thought about. I mean

tell you that I am a pretty joyful person in general and I think that bringing a positive, a bead attitude and lots of laughter to almost any situation is a very great thing to do. I just think it makes life better yeah, I, where wicked cleaning. So let's get into some nuts and bolts here and have you give us some of your favorites are

whether gee? I never knew that kind of cleaning tipps of that will dazzle people so yeah wine. One thing I am, I think people tend to be surprised by is that white vinegar is a magic product that can be used from for everything, from removing mauled too, as a glass cleaner and in all purpose cleaner. It's an odour, eliminate or that can be used in laundry. So it's just an incredibly on versatile product. It also really inexpensive and non toxic. So it's it's basically a perfect cleaning

product and the the running joke in my column is that the answer is always vinegar. So that's one thing that surprises people, then I have other weird weird tips like using foodstuffs to clean on so tomatoes and ketchup will clean copper, make it bright and shiny, which is kind of a weird one. On another thing, you know when you sat a glass down and you forget to use a coaster, and it leaves that white water ring on your wood table on mixing a little bit of ash either cigarette or cigar ash with butter to make a paste will take those

white water rings up from wide, so people tend to really like those kinds of weirdo checks that I have yeah. Give me some more of those. I love those a couple more. I use a piece of sliced bread to pick up glass if you've shattered glass on your kitchen floor say, grab a piece of sliced bread and just use it to pat that class right up same thing with a cut potato, a cup potato also pickup last shard. So that's a nice trick to have, and then I guess, sticking with the food theme on. If you cut a half a grapefruit or a half a lemon and sprinkle it with kosher salt that can to use his scrub, the interior

bathtub, so the combination of the citric acid and the sort of sloughing power power of the salt will will take soap, scum and that kind of stuff up off of a of a tub better than cleanser better than comment, I mean it's different from comet, it's much it's much general gentler than comic con. It's very harsh I mean I love comment, but I think they and people contend to overuse if those kinds of harsh powder abrasives, the other thing, that's really great about the the grapefruit or the lemon trick, is that it's totally non toxic. So if you have a household with kids and they're, often taking baths, you might be hesitant to use a product like comment, because it can leave a residue that then, is still in the tub. When you know junior goes in for his nightly bubble bath and so using natural products is a is a big thing

for a lot of parents. Great keep going. I'm sure this is a fun wine as long or on the subject of the time in the shower- If you, the shower glass, shower doors that get the nasty soap scum build up on, a dryer sheet can be used to scrub those shot glass shower doors. They works. Like a charm, I actually just told a reporter who was interviewing me about that, and she emailed two days later and said: oh my gosh, I tried that and it worked. I can't even get over how good my bathroom looks right now, so that was the way. That's always exciting, to hear those those little tricks on another good. One with dryer sheets is to use dryer sheets for dusting, and not only will they pick up dust, but they also leave behind a thin coating that will help to repel dust for just a little bit longer and it's not going to prevent the dust. But it's going to extend the life of your

a thing after it just a little bit longer, which is a good thing. What about? I know it's up. A problem for lots of people is when you try to do your best to finally get out and clean the windows in the streaks when the sun shines through they get all streaky. What's your advice, yeah? Well, first, I dont clean windows on a sunny day, which I know is frustrating to get oftentimes that sunny day that make sure I realize how dirty your windows got, especially during spring cleaning time on, but wait until you have an overcast day on and clean the windows on an overcast day. The sunshine actually will will contribute to the streaking on another. Really good thing to do is seize newspaper and instead of paper towels

because a new newspaper is lint free. So it's not going to leave behind any lint on the windows and, if you don't like using newspaper because it gets the ink on your fingers, which a lot of people don't like, I'm grab a copy of the wall street journal because they spend a little bit of extra money on on a kind of ink and printing process that doesn't on leave the ink on your fingers. Oh yeah There's there's a weird one for you by the wall street journal yeah what about stuff when around the stove in the oven that gets burnt on the you know like the burners get burn on stuff? And it's like him. possible to get off. Oh, I know The embarrassment I'm a little bit of a cream club.

Or on a powder abrasive like comecon, it may be too harsh if you ve, got glass or in the em all show top. So I would you something a little john for maybe something like bonum E on and there the product called it dolby pad deal b. I e that made by three am and it's a sponge with covered in a kind of special three m magic netting on that won't caused scratching, but is an excellent product for on getting things that are stuck on up off of surfaces. Yeah I've used those for years. I like those yeah, I love those they're they're great product. What is, and you know it, but the the our cleaning lady uses something called bar keepers best friend or bartenders best. Do you know what that deeper friend yeah? Absolutely? What does that tell you, I'm going to tell you something: it's very similar to bones. Me I'm so it comes in both the cream and a powder formula people

air by barkeeper friend. They love it for cleaning their stainless steel dish, our pots and pans for cleaning everything in the kitchen for cleaning the bathroom, I have to tell you that I have never had good luck with bar keepers friend, and so I resent it terribly, because I am a cleaning expert and it doesn't work for me and it makes me feel bad. other people, love it. So, yes, I will, I will buy my tongue. I keep and mention it that it is a pretty good product for me. people also talk about automobile car. You because it live people. Dane things in the car and the car spells and talk about the car. Absolutely the car is a nash and we tend to forget about the car being a mask on. So there are a couple of different things that happen when the staining on why you should use if you have a pollster, it's really mostly a problem when you've got upholstered seats on a product, that's used to clean a pole

it's like a foaming upholstery and carpet cleaner will go a long way in bringing that upholstery back up. It's also going to help with some of the smell issues. I'm also a good idea from time to time to vacuum the car out. You know you can go to a car wash and use the shop vacuum that they have for rent. If you have your own shop, vac or handheld vac, even on that's going to make the car look a lot better. Vacuuming the the the floors and the upholstery and so on for the smell. You want to use an odor eliminating products on so not something that's going to mask odor like the trees that you hang from the rearview mirror, because that's just gonna make the car smell like pine and french fry, so instead it's better to find a product. That is an odour

Eliminator activated charcoal is a grey odor eliminator, it's actually the prot product that is used in most kitty letters to control odor. So if you think of a litter box as needing odor control, the same kind of and the same kind of product is going to work to control odors in your car. great? Well, we ve talked about some of my favorite so pick some of your favorites have on my right. What are you why not my reader come to me all the time about yellow on your arm stand

The thing to know about the yellow and our own sand is that is caused by treaty from things one, the sweat. Obviously, we think of, though the sweat things, but actually the other contributor to that is the deodorant, then anti personal there were using. It contains aluminum, and there is a chemical reaction that goes on that creates that yellow stain on what you don't ever want to use on that is bleach. Oddly enough, people think all does bleach outlay. White shirt no bleach is gonna. Make that kind of thing which of the protein saint sweat is a protein render more yellow on an see. Dont want to use it in stand when you want to use is something that has an enzyme in it to an end fanatic based cleaner. I really like oxy clean

but there are loads of other products out on the market and- and the thing is- is that once you've gotten into that yellow staining k territory you're going to need to do a little bit of work, so you're going to need to let those products sustainer moving products, work on the shirt before you launder them, so either by soaking them or by using a spray treatment and letting it sit for thirty or so minutes before laundering, and so that that's a big one? I hear all the time Do you do you think that a good cleaning is contains an element of preventive ness? I think so. Yeah I mean the thing is: is that the more frequently you clean the easier it's going to be and the less time overall you're going to end up spending? I know that sounds sort of odd to say the more frequently you clean the less time you'll spend. But if you let things build up, you're going to have to put so much time and work physical, energy cleaning, it's a very physical thing that we do and it's just going to be really exhausting, whereas if you just kind of stay on top of it

a little bed every day every week on you, don't really you're, not really gonna, be looking down the barrel at these major. You know hours, long, cleaning, tasks when more one more tip Alright, let's talk about blood, for we all get blood scenes on the good news about bloodstain. Is that there are a lot of ways to remove them, so some really common things that that we see are on hydrogen peroxide as a go to and that's also very cheap, very readily available and also salt and saline solution. So, if you're on the fly in your contact lens wearer- and you have saline solution, saline solution will help to remove bloodstains on again. Just like our pit scenes and enzymatic cleaner is going to be great on blood. Here are two that are really weird.

The first is unseasoned meat. Tenderizer will remove bloodstains. You mix it with a little bit of water, rub it onto the stain, wipe it off with a damp rag or sponge on and it'll it'll. Take that stain out the last one m is kind of so gross. I don't really want people to use it, but it does work. So I'm going to tell people that saliva will take a bloodstain out if it's a fresh bloodstain. If it's an older one, you should use something like an enzymatic cleaner, but if you've- a fresh blood, saying your own saliva will take that bloodstain out excellent excellent. Well, you know my go to cleaning expert julie. Kerr has been my guest She is the host of a podcast called ask a clean person. She has an advice. Column and she's also author of the book, my boyfriend barf in my hand, bag. I love that title. there is a link to her book in the show notes for this episode. Thanks jolly

When you cry you off. always get a runny knows that can make things either more upsetting and an embarrassing. So what causes what why does your nose run when you're cry and the short answer is overflow. We all generate tears all the time there. A mix of oil, mucus and water that are secreted from different glow ends and sells around your eye tears serve to keep the eyeballs surface lubricated if your eye gets irritated or if your feelings Had tier production ramps up until your eyes fill up and overflow each. I can hear about seven micro leaders of fluid according to penny. As bell, who is an ophthalmologist at mount, sign medical center in new york. When this threshold has been crossed, then the team

start dribbling down your eyes and down your cheeks excess tears can also go down the back and flood the drainage ducks that led to the nasal passages, and then you get it he knows, and that is something you should know that's the programme today. I might carruthers thanks for listening to something you should stacking benjamin's with Joe and his good friend oji. Not only has great financial insight, its lay back with humour to the le pen's, oh say much survey I wanted to know: was it really cheaper to around bag it every day or was it cheaper to go through the school lunch? The most expensive sandwich of all forty six percent increase is the first time in a sandwiches ever touched five bucks before anybody gags on at them. It's a great sandwich find out more by searching the stacking benjamin's pie cast wherever you listen.