Over the ages, arsenic has had many lives — beauty fad, household product, medical prescription… and weapon of choice wielded by killers everywhere from Alabama to ancient Rome. Brine your turkey, knead your dough, and listen to our Thanksgiving Special on the regime-changing, assassination-aiding King of Poisons.
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This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
Happy holidays park, ass bands, I'm great pulsing,
from serial killers. Spotify original from power cast in honour of thanksgiving
I'm excited to present this very special episode.
Dad, arsenic, a warning. This episode can
in discussions of death and murder, please excess
I caution fur listeners under thirteen its november
the trees outside or a collage of red orange and yellow firefights away the cold. Each
the door opens and another guest arrives candles liquor for ambient,
mouth watering, aromas floating from the kitchen,
less of wine make the small talk more palatable. Maybe the
thanksgiving will bobby different. You wonder, but it's not by the time the first dollop of mashed potatoes hits your plate.
mood. Darkens tensions rise as family members, draggled skeletons from closets. You thought you'd want nothing. Not even pumpkin pie can prevent the chaos now this all away
happens, no matter how hard you try the holiday ends in shouting in tears. Ass. You push bootstraps around your plate, terrible thought process your mind.
What if I slipped something in the dessert?
They get all stop. Of course you don't actually mean it. You never act on these thoughts, but
others have. I am gregg paulson co host of serial killers, spotify original from power.
cast every week, minister Richardson and I died into the minds and madness behind histories worst murders,
this holiday season word telling the story of a different kind of killer like king of poisons and the poison of kings. A weapon of choice,
that has fallen from the shelves of history or perhaps it still out there silently killing without making a splash gird your stomachs, because this thanksgiving arsenic is on the menu you're, not feeling. Well, it started as acute stomach pains then cramps vomiting. Now your fingers, a feeling, gnomon tingley, you don't know what's happening or why it couldn't have anything to do with this.
An old woman who served you dinner thirty minutes ago. Could it these days arsenic calls to mind an archetype of killer, a matronly caregiver with a strange, vile and her spice rack. Her intentions seem pure. She says she wants to fatten you up with a home cooked meal, but there's more than broth and cornstarch in her gravy. It's her unassuming nature that makes her dangerous. It's why police
having found a graveyard beneath her rose bushes. Why later an interview was her neighbours will express shock in all the bodies are fun and the headlines come out. This character may some cliche, but we don't need to travel
very far back in time to find some real world inspiration. Our first stop thanksgiving day. Nineteen, twenty four macy's debate
Men store since its first holiday parade down sixth avenue in manhattan. Meanwhile, some
Five hundred miles away in hard scrabble ohio, a woman
Martha wise hustle, arrives on her mothers. Doorstep Martha's presence comes as a surprise to her mother Sophia. Recently, the relationship has been a bit strange. Mirth has always been a bit odd in a morbid kind of way.
For years, she's attended every funeral and a twenty mile radius of her home, whether she knows the deceased or not she'll cry alongside the mortars revelling in the sadness of strangers. That's not the current sticking point between Martha and your mother, though. At the moment sophia's put off by her daughters dating by Martha's husband albert died last year and Martha already started seeing a much younger man Sophia
he doesn't want them getting married. This thanksgiving martha appears to offer her mom an olive branch. She shows up alone, no boyfriend, insight,
they enjoy a meal together as a family and
so far. As anyone knows, there are no fights later that evening. Sofia and some of the other dinner guests fall ill. First, it's stomach pains cramps, then vomiting. They assume it's a case of food poisoning may be some spoiled turkey, most of them recover within a few weeks, but not sophia. She dies by mid december. Doctors eventually blame a stomach inflammation. A few weeks later.
So family gathers for new year's eve. The evening is like data Bu, seventeen family members come down with the same mysterious illness for children become paralyzed to die
Martha wise, on the other hand, escapes both events.
unscathed. This raises some eyebrows men. Soon, troubling account comes to light in the weeks leading up to thanks giving someone in hard scrabble saw martha purchasing a bunch of arsenic. Her family eventually puts two and two together and Martha goes to prison she's, given an egg name. The point
widow of hearts, gravel and becomes almost universally hated. No one will invite or do any more holiday parties. That's for sure. In fact, when she's released from jail at the age of seventy nine, Martha faces so much disdain, but she volunteers to go back to prison.
But before that happens in the same year as Martha's murders, hundreds of
miles away and the east coast, the most famous arsenic poisoner in american history
escaping the rigid confines of prison authorities, transfer Amy, archer gilligan
much nicer room at connecticut valley hospital. Officially. This is because prison staff believe she's insane and need psychiatric treatment.
But some believe it's just another one of Amy's ploys. She's proven
She'll do anything and kill anyone in our own self interest.
About a decade. Amy read a nursing home for the elderly and infirm in windsor connecticut many entered healthy only to exit in coffins
After conveniently adding Amy to their last will in testament newspapers
The nursing, homer murder, factory and test revealed that almost two dozen of Amy's patients
showed evidence of arsenic poisoning before Amy and martha
there was mary, Ann cotton widely considered Britain's first serial killer suspected of poisoning at least three of
husbands and eleven of her children. Before anyone caught on after marianne came nanny dos a k, a bug, giggling grannie,
because she smiled and laughed a lot even while recount
her many murders. She's, remember
if album us, most prolific serial killer with a body combat included at least or husbands and likely a few children to sister.
Her mother, her mother in law and some grandchildren, later
and in the seventies and eighties, a woman named Judy bueno on yo or poisoned two lovers enter son. The final straw came when she failed to kill her boyfriend by trying to blow up his car with a bomb. I could provide more examples, but you get the point. These women have been called black widows, gold diggers score in texas in another century
might have been called witches as far as killers go there and death rates rival or surpass the likes of Jeffrey Dahmer. An jack. The Ripper brother legacies couldn't be any more different thanks in part to their weapon of choice and odorless tasteless substance. That now carries a distinctly feminine reputation. Of course, stereotypes are reductive and arsenic itself,
of his general, is naturally occurring meddling and one of the most common elements in the earth's crust ass for the poison commonly referred to as arsenic that comes
form of a compound, formerly known as arsenic, try oxide in movies
notice, it up and looks like sugar white in polar like it's extremely effective, because arsenic, try oxide has no smell or taste its virtually undetectable when slipped into food or
and its initial symptoms can easily be mistaken for a run of the mill stomach buck. Plus the process of dying can take time depending.
if it's administered all at once or in gradual installments. It could take anywhere from a few days to a few months, so there is rarely a crime scene to investing
age, which is why, from most of history, arsenic wasn't just used by villainous
grannies or desperate housewives it. It was a preferred choice for anyone who lack scruples, including ancient roman politicians back before the common era. Suspected poisonings of powerful romans resulted in thousands,
being put to death accused of large scale political conspiracies, so many wise, reportedly trying to kill their husbands that the word adulterous,
became synonymous with poisoner, men bribe doctors to slip, toxins to their rivals, nobles poison, pregnant relatives to eliminate errors. Here's how the rule
when poet juvenile described social and political mobility. If you want
anybody. Nowadays, you must dare some crime.
that warrants exile or jail honesty is praised and starts. It is to their crimes.
Men owe their pleasure grounds and high commands cut to eighty two bc out of desperate
asian, the roman dictator, lucius Cornelius Sela an ex what's likely the first ever laws against poison and its usage, but it doesn't really work
a little more than a century later. Historians,
leave nero employed, arsenic to assassinated step, brother painting,
the way to becoming emperor of rome by the time renaissance politicians
their hands on the substance. In the sixteenth century they became almost machiavellian in their usage. It's the era of the house of borgia affair
who will become famous for weapon icing, arsenic to increase their already expansive influence and power. The patriarch
lives in an enormous estate, now considered its own tiny country, but vatican, it pope alexander the
six serves as the head of the roman catholic church and the house of borgia. According to rule
whereas if you were to ever meet the pope son cesare, you might notice a specially crafted ring on his finger with a tiny clasp that opened to a hollowed center used to store a tasteless white powder. The family calls love
counter. Bela o this old ring all the better to kill you with my dear
throughout their brutal reign. The borgia used a wide variety of poisons to dispose of their enemies, but lock hunter realm goes
as their most famous
As far as we know, they never personally wrote down instructions for how to make it, but over a century later, a few roman physicians apparently did here's their rather bizarre recipe,
first forcefully administer arsenic to a pig until it dies then harvest.
Its rotting balls and let them dry once finished. Man,
those entrails into a fine powder and you're done in addition to the arsenic here, poisonous filled with a host of life, threatening bacteria and talks
of all, the members of the house of Borgia one has become the most famous for killing with poison. It's the pope's, illegitimate, daughter, lucretia
for centuries after she died plays an opera is depicted
as the original femme patel, but deadliest snake in a house of vipers. Look
that's his legacy undeniably contributed to poisons reputation as a female weapon, but there's probably not much truth to the claims. Historians today believe lucretia wasn't a viper so much as a scapegoat for the men in her life guilty of her boy
their fathers crimes by association more than anything, but the alternative did make for better stories stories which
may have gone on to inspire other members of the crutches sex, like fellow italian julia to Julia lived in the seventeenth century,
If legends are true, she brought black market arsenic to the mainstream in an explosive even come
merciful way in doing so. She became arguably the most successful assassin to ever want this earth
its july. Sixteen thirty, three in palermo, sicily, tiffany Dahmer, prepares to dine absolutely horrific death toll, phineas, executioners or leather tie her
to the back of a horse drag her body
to the gallows, hang her until she's, almost dead decapitate and then publicly cutter corpse into four pieces
or they'll duffer into a canvas, sack, tie it shut and throw off a roof and into a crowd of spectators waiting for the moment of impact all because she supposedly hope to create an incredibly lethal poison, which she may have
to kill a few people, including her husband. According to rumours before she dies telephony passes the recipe unto a woman assumed to be her daughter. Julia till Juliet, then, please to rome, buys a ton of arsenic off a priest and loans
the line of beauty products in a newly burgeoning underground criminal market most are
or to what you see on shelves today, creams maker, perfumes,
but for the italian woman looking to restore their youthful glow and sound
their marital problems, Julius Celso, tincture, called awkward till fauna. It comes in a beautiful glass file with the image of a christian saint on its label. The packaging is intentionally deceptive
any aspiring widow can discreetly displayed on their vanity without their husband, finding out its least with policing capable of killing a full grown man with just four to six drawings. Awkward to fund
becomes a hid among wives, trying to escape abusive loveless marriages in an
where women are auctioned off as property and given
it to no agency. It helps tip the scales ever so slightly back in their favor. The poison flies off the shelves for decades, then, one day, a housewife reportedly adds a couple of drops to her husband's soup before he slurps down a spoonful. She has second thoughts and stops him. He gets suspicious beats the truth out of her and Julia secret comes to light, which, as you can imagine, doesn't go over well,
First officials launch a man hunt defined Julia. She seeks asylum in a church, rumour spread about her dumping acquittal fauna in the cities, drinking water. The whole chase turns into quite the ordeal
but when all is said and done, authorities find Julia arrest her and after days, a brutal torture. She confessed to aiding and abetting in the deaths of as many as six hundred men, including two pope's. You know some guys just can't hold their arsenic. Of course, her confession is given under severe duress, so it's best to take it with the grain of sand. But there's no doubt the italian patriarchy is shaking their boots. Authorities execute julia along with the women who assisted her, but the one thing they can't kill is her product. Almost a century later
boats, art will reportedly wonder on his death bed with a summons slipped. Him upward to fund in clause this mysterious, ailment, arsenic and general becomes more widely used in the seventeenth century is no longer just a tool for the elite. It's something everyone has access to in paris its given the nickname inheritance powder like some sort of over the counter medicines. Are you tired of waiting to get access to your loved ones? Estate? Try some ass, tacking, DA's inheritance powder apply to lever, is causing the congestion and you'll see immediate results. General expats us not included
cut to the golden age of arsenic, where the poisons not considered this or that male or female elite or comment you didn't have to be the target
the political rival or burnt acts to be in danger, because arsenic was everywhere during the industrial revolution the road starts to produce,
What more steel which, as you may know, isn't alloy of iron and other metals? Now
member earlier when I mention arsenic is naturally occurring metal and one of the most
I'm elements in the earth's crust well
refined I earned and copper or contain arsenic deposits during steel production. Those deposits get oxygen,
It didn't turn into their more lethal form, arsenic trioxide by the turn of the nineteenth
century as demand sores steelworkers. Look on past
The smoke in the roaring fires of their fortunes to the massive chimneys overhead. They see a strange way.
material, condensing around the edges. It almost looks like snow and
We so often they need to scrape off so then doesn't close up entirely, rather than throw it away
factory managers decide to sell the by product does exactly what it is: a poison, and just like that arsenic gets a red brown color
is marketed as a commercial remedy for household pests in june.
They call it moist the buddha literally mouse butter.
america and europe became saturated with arsenic, based, insecticides, herbicides and would preservatives almost
montana asleep. A swedish chemist named Carl bildt, hum Sheila learns that arsenic makes a pretty good dying agent. The color becomes
one us green and in time it becomes invoke candle
curtains, wallpaper and clothing all come in lovely shades of shallots,
by the victorian era. The average consumer can pick up arsenic, lace, products that their local convenience store, and this causes some problems. There are, of course, those still use
arsenic to murder in cold blood, like geisha godfrey eat, a k, a the angel of bremen,
A german woman be headed for using moist buddha to murder, fifteen ever loved ones. All while playing the role of concerned nurse.
or a lane jaeger dough, a french may do poisons in kills more than thirty people. In her lengthy career,
but arsenic, try oxide starts wrapping up unintentional deaths as well. One english worker mistakes, a barrel of the white powder for a baking ingredient to hunt,
people become violently ill after trying to satisfy their sweet to twenty of them die
a woman who colors artificial flowers eventually dropped dead from clinic exposure. She bomb its green bile convoy
It says, starts foaming at the mouth. According to reports, her fingernails
and the whites of her eyes turned green. Two worst of all that chemist, who made the dye Carl sailor, knew his power
with toxic the same year. He invented it. He discovered away to detect arsenic turns out if you treated with
I took acid and zinc. It produces a gas that spells almost like garlic.
Obvious reasons: shameless green balls out of fashion. It's hard to know exactly how many factory workers dying its golden age as we mentioned, arsenic,
listening can be mistaken for other elements, but also a chronic exposure can cause other fatal diseases like cancer. The skin, bladder and lungs. Determining a precise cause of death could be quite confusing.
In its final days, french emperor napoleon bonaparte suspected him
had been poisoned by political rival, while in exile. After his defeat by the british, he wrote, I die before my time murdered by the british oligarchy at its higher disaster.
test later, showed a surprisingly high amount of arsenic and napoleon's hair, but not enough to suggest to murder attempt
the famous military leader might have actually been bested by an interior design choice, sir
when used that color sailors green to paint the wallpaper in his final residence, arsenic may not have killed him outright, but exposure is certainly didn't. Help is already pervasive health problems. So how could medical professionals
determined. The difference between someone who was murdered with arsenic versus
When who was overexposed well, the answer is: it was nearly impossible, let alone prove in a court of law
as evidenced by the experience of one london chemist in eighteen, thirty, three, that no
amber the bottle family balls violently ill after drinking from the same coffee, pod, the father, george boat old, doesn't survive, turns out. He drank most at the coffee and from the least deluded badge. The forensics other case end up in the hands of chemist. James
march, a man but no previous experience protesting arsenic. But he knows what he's doing after you get his hands on the suspect coffee. He links it into a nearby fireplace and the smell of garlic fills the room which is obviously suspicious marsh, runs tests on the copy grounds, george
farm it and the contents of his stomach. He learns the grounds contain more than enough arsenic to kill and, as marsh,
away in his lab invested,
his home in on a murder suspect georgia's grandson John. He has a possible motive. George
finally fired John from the family business plus authorities find to stockpile of arsenic and johns home. Now John claims, the arsenic, ass innocent, he tells official cease using it, did treatise skin rash and believe it or not. This is actually a pretty reasonable defence. At the time, arsenic is prescribed to treat a whole
slew of medical issues, one of the most popular tonics used to treat malaria and syphilis isn't arsenic,
As formula known as followers solution, John is guilty, though
eight or confesses to murdering his grandfather. But before that happens, when John case goes to trial, he's acquitted a jury of his peers find some innocent
James marsh's coffee, ground tests weren't enough to get a conviction. This is partly because methods for detecting arsenic are pretty unreliable,
Especially when dealing with organic matter, like george, it's mom it, there was no,
away from march, or anyone for that matter to prove the cause of death and connected to the culprit. Certain
not beyond a shadow of a doubt. Up until this point poisonous have basically been convicted base
and circumstantial evidence, rumours and pure slander, so marsh
try to find a new, more foolproof test. After a bunch of trial and error. He creates this complex apparatus with lots of tubes, cylinders and cauldrons for collecting gas, and it works.
The marsh test becomes the gold standard for the next one hundred fifty years, murders become easier to detect and prosecute marking,
getting at the end of arson X, ray as the king of poisons but
we in the literal sense see marshes discovery, attracts a lot of public attention,
with literacy and the rise in newspapers getting cheaper. The world starts reading.
More stories about arsenic and both silent killer, and this wave of publicity comes within unfortunates
effect mass panic by the MID too late, nineteenth century arsenic,
it's making headlines, the silent killer has been around for centuries, but the now widespread stories
murder and death, give way to a brand new fear, arsenic finds its way into newspapers, tabloids and popular fiction, which gives way to sensationalism panic and superstition, rumours and reports. So
then it's long held connection to witchcraft, and the supernatural
none more so than the austrian arsenic eaters in eighteen, fifty one
a venus medical journal publishes a strange report describing a group of,
since living in the mountains of Austria who eat large quantity,
have arsenic, two or three times a week. These
Cynic eaters would apparently consume as much as three hundred milligrams of arsenic in a single setting for context ingest
just seventy milligrams can be lethal, and yet these peasants claim they eat arsenic by the fistful, because it's good for their health. It gives them quote good.
And and helps them perform hard labor at high elevations. The report even suggests
that it may help their beauty regimens, giving them smooth
blemish, skin and rosy cheeks. Naturally, the account baffles the medical community. Few believe it's real, but an eighteen, seventy five, a meadow
conference in Austria puts too arsenic eaters to the test in
front of alive audience. One eats afore
de milligram lump of arsenic, the other three hundred to the crowd. This must have seemed like a magic trick. Sure
they are about to witness the two men keel over volume. I didn't die, but the next day the austrians reappeared healthy, as ever than everyone's left, wondering how the devil was that possible.
Well, it may break the magicians golden rule, but let you in on the secret but arsenic, gets dissolved in food or drink. It can easily anti your system
arsenic molecules go to work, shutting the body down on a malaria
level. Personal molecules are similar in structure to phosphorus, something that our cells, you
to help produce energy.
and if you will a room being filled with a steady stream of water, there are a bunch of doors to let the water out but their locked. In this metaphor, the room is a cell and the doors are chemical reactions sites
as acts like a key opening the doors to allow water to flow, causing react,
and generating energy, arsenic,
on the other hand, essentially clogs the keyhole. If enough doors become clogged, the cell dies and if enough cells die, organs will start to fail in eighteen
seventy five. When officials test the europe of the arts indicators, they find the samples contained
unusually high concentration of arsenic enough that it seems most of it didn't get absorbed into their bloodstreams. It ran straight through them
see when eaten hole and in large quantities. Arsenic, doesn't breakdown fast enough to cause too much damage
your body only absorbs enough arsenic molecules to eliminate some bacteria in your skin, making you positively radiant when this news reaches victorian angling, arsenic once again becomes a beauty trend, Allah, awkward, tofana, but this time the intent is to attractive eight not killed them comply
in wafers made of arsenic promise to impart beauty to any literal consumer. The fat creates problems for criminal courts, lawyers
or to invoke what becomes known as the syrian defence. Syria
the region of Austria, the arsenic eaters, our from now
someone dies and arsenic is fond of their system, its fair to claim they just wanted better skin,
and while the arsenic, gaiters and their strange proclivities have been debunked has having nothing to do with magic, they
I've had a handed inspiring one of the most famous supernatural creatures ever vampires
to be clear. No one knows the true origin of vampire lore, but arsenic was up,
pillar embalming agent throughout history, meaning it helped preserve corpses in syria, where eating arsenic was part of the culture, their accounts of body subsume twelve years after burial, but appeared eerily intact. It's not
do you imagine that stories like this inspired some of the original vampire legends, especially since syria is located in southeast austria not too far from olden day transylvania, home of dracula
person, relationship to the supernatural continued on entered the twentieth century in chicago right before the roaring twenties. A polish immigrant named tilly climax, starts. Having ominous premonitions
visions of strangers, neighbours and dogs dying and everyone
then comes true. She even for tells the death of her first second and third husbands, figures.
Not so hard when you're about to poison that person with a boat load of arsenic, Chile's eventually tried and convicted of thirteen counts of murder, but, as the twentieth century continues,
killers like tilly, become more rare. There are still there
who try their hand like Martha, wise
also and Amy archer gilligan, but better testing makes it more difficult for poisoners to get away with murder. Legislation starts protecting factory workers from over exposure and arsenic becomes a prop in pop culture. Something to laugh at rather than
air. Can you imagine? After all the death and dying we discussed its nineteen? Forty one years
sitting in the fulton theatre in new york city, the lights go down and the court
rise on a set. The parlor of an old brooklyn home the player
to watch has earned rave reviews from critics, arsenic,
An old lays the calling at one but best dark comedies ever produced the stories
fired by the real life murders of Amy archer gilligan. It features a pair of elderly lay.
he's who poison lonely old men the characters described there met
but a poisoning like it's a family recipe for again
elderberry wine, I take a teaspoon of arsenic and at a half, teaspoon strychnine and then just a pinch of cyanide one says: arsenic becomes a tool for farce or murder math.
for old spinsters. The story of marian cotton even gets turned into an english nursery rhyme Mary
and cotton she's dead and she's rotten lying in bed
were their eyes wide open sings
Oh what should I sing marian cotton she's tied up with,
where, where up in the air selling black puddings a penny, a pair england, first,
rio killer goes from killing children to putting them to sleep even and Agatha Christy's time.
Arsenic is seen as a passe method of murder. In writing. Career
that encompassed over three hundred. Imagine murderous christie only killed. Eight of her character is with arsenic, but poison, doesn't totally
disappear into fiction during the twentyth century. It just becomes less domestic in its application. During the first world war, a mare,
and scientists develop something called louis site. Gas and arsenic base chemical weapon
four frontline warfare, the gas attacks, the eyes respiratory system and skin
causing long term disease, blindness and cancer in november.
nineteen? Eighteen, a ship rumor
contain one hundred fifty tonnes of the stuff sales to europe to aid in the ongoing efforts, but the war
comes to an end that month and the vessel sinks before it sees action and though it stays in production. This little evidence
suggested played a significant role in any war since which brings us back to the present day.
the time or arsenic no longer poses a threat.
right now come on,
I think this holiday would end on a high. Now did you it is thanksgiving, after all, take a look at that turkey you just take,
believe it or not. When it was a lie that was probably fed, arsenic in small quantities to kill off parasites and lighten the color the meat. So it looks more appetising
but don't worry about taking another bite. If anything
should be worried about the arsenic under your feet. We mentioned a few times now, but it's one of the most
common elements of the earth's crust, the majority of which isn't toxic at the moment, but that has the potential to change. Take utah's great salt lake
in recent years as water levels lower due to population growth and climate change. The sun's rays threatened to expose its arsenic, rich bad. If oxidized it could spell disaster for surrounding communities. Contaminated water, toxin filled air,
lawmakers have called a dormant threat, a potential environmental nuclear bomb that it's not just utah
terminated ground. Groundwater has become a problem across the globe. According to a two thousand. Sixteen study, many
believing in nepal may be unwittingly, drinking water containing arsenic and two thousand nineteen. A report found
California, inmates only had access to arsenic lay swell water, because the government didn't maintain proper health standards, which is to say a lot has changed since the industrial revolution and a lotta stayed. The same
in a sense our planet has always been painted in shameless green and were all unsuspecting victorian housewives waiting for the silent killer to strike.
That's a talking point. I'm sure we'll go over well, this thanksgiving, but hey midst, all the fighting and the tears and the existential dread at least
still alive. So why not dig in
Joy, one more slice of pie, it probably won't kill you thanks for turning into the special holiday at this
brought you buy serial killers for more information on arsenic and its history. Amongst the many sources we used, we found bitten by which fever wallpaper.
And arsenic. The victorian home by lucinda hawksley extremely helpful to our research. You can find all up
so the serial killers and all other spotify originals from park ass for free odds, spotify, happy thanksgiving I'll, see you next time serial killer
Is this a spot? If I, regional, from power cast executive produced by max color or had approach,
Aiming as julian boil row are supervising sound designer
is ruslan ass with nip johnson as our head of production and quality control by spencer, howard Ben bishop is
supervising, editor and Derek Jennings is our writing led. This episode of serial killers was written by robert teamster and conor samson.
edited by elly wicker fact checked by Hayley milkin research by Brian Petrus, produced by bruce couteau, which ends
design by Michael motion. I'm gregg pulsing.
Transcript generated on 2023-06-19.