For gifts that bring holiday joy, I had to ulta beauty, and that includes gifts for yours, truly like this dyson air wrap the statement gift of the season. For mom and for me here a floral carolina, Herrera fragrance into luskin cared kit where my secret santa and I got these shimmering pat mcgrath and tart eye shadow pilots from my friend Jan ante up for me shop. They gives that bring joy to everyone on your list. This holiday sees it also beauty. The possibilities are beautiful, pardon the interruption. We know interruptions can be annoying like when your cars, oil change light comes on. When you have a million things to do. We call that oil change society,

but eventually needs an oil change. We like making interruption shorter so will make this vast oil changes it about. Fifteen minutes stay in your car, while you watch us work free eighteen point. Safety check include fight oil chain society at valve leniency in oil change, visit a location, new training, our kids, that their opinion of their experience matters more than my experience take. So I watch my kid play. Tennis yeah could point out the gains that I see, but what's way more interesting is what do you see like? What did that experience mean to you like what we're your gains? Are you different from where you were before that tennis match and sell it rather than even needing to project The opinion of the matter is his opinion of his own gains are infinitely more interesting and important than my opinion of his gains,

and once he starts playing in that round, is getting on the gap without worrying about what I think his progress yeah, I'm an external aspects, I am not him. He just needs to measure himself backwards, his perspective of his games, his perspective, his growth in meat and just becoming curious and saying what did you here gains, what did you see from that experience and helping do that by vice versa, be doing it for myself. hi, I'm rachel. and this is my podcast I I spend so many hours of every single week, reading and listening to podcast and watching youtube videos and trying to find out as much as I can about the world around me and that's what we do on this show. We talk about everything life

and how to be an entrepreneur. What happened dinosaurs? What's the best recipe for fried chicken? What's the best plan for intermittent fasting? What's going on with our inner child house therapy working out for you, whatever it is, my guess or into I want to unpack it so that we can all understand these our conversations. This is information for the curious. This is the rachel Hollis. I guess what, if someone, because I've definitely heard this week, well. I've never had this problem. I am so like, since I was a little girl, I'm like this, where I'm going, but I do have members of my community who are like a camp

figure out my future self. I dont know what I want that to look like. I don't know who I want that to be a: maybe it's because their imagination isn't strongly. We are not as visual are there things that they can do to help arm themselves with information about what they want to Emma, or we do This thing I rise conference where your visualizing your life over the next ten years, and when I will just give samples of my own visions, pupil it. Why? What are you talking about that? That's so crazy there like I'm over here? Try and the like pay off my credit card, and you are dreaming about. In a visible jet like you're, making something and big- I always think of is I got to go to this mastermind like four or five years ago, and I was sitting at this table way over. My skis, like everyone at this table, was crazy way more successful than I will in an ever going around saying what they were.

Working on the big vision that they had- and I think I was like you know- I'm writing my next book and I want to sell this many copies whatever and it gets around to this guy and I'm not going to say it like exactly right, but essentially he's like what. If dolphins could talk and like everyone is like, you could hear a pin drop everyone's like what I mean. Are you drunk like what he's like no, but what if dolphins could talk? What would they say to us now mind you, this man has so much money and he's like that's what I'm working on for the next twenty five years. I'm just I'm I'm in a figure out how to get dolphins to talk not even kidding and

nobody could say anything at all, I'm thinking as I'm over you're trying to think of how to sell. You know another book disguised me how to get it to open the door, the vision, even if he fails at that, the stuff that he is going to figure out how to do in that line of work, like I think of James Cameron, making avatar and he's like, we make avatar and milk- we don't have cameras that can do that, so we spend what ten years developing be equipment before he could. And start filming the movie, because cameras didn't exist. That would give him the look he wanted and you just did it again on the second one cause he's like no, this is what I'm doing melick. Will that hasn't happened yet our eye all invented freaking pick it reminds me that as people who we mostly arias, what we're going for scarcely like her

You are right. Now is what you're going for that's why you know that quote from from robert green set that were generally dealing with so many immediate battles like if you just go in for the short term things or even honestly, small goals, that's what you're gonna produce. Like in so it's ok that you're not there yet, but you are what you're going for, and I love the idea of genes. Cameron like he had to figure out how to build on this technology, because his goal was so big, mister had to figure out how to be really good at a lot of things tat. His goal was so big. It doesn't really matter that you're there yet like that's, not even what matters, but whatever you're going for the goal shapes the process, the feed, who drives the present at just how we all are in so I guess one one invitation and there's a great quote from albert einstein. Said imagination is more important than knowledge and even Daniel gilbert talks a lot about this he's the one who studied future self is. Most people spend almost no time even imagining their future self. Like

we don't even start. You noted devout the little like like developed the little muscle, and so I think journaling is the thing that continues to help me like I but I think it's good. Like literally like one thing I like about that, example, even I like about your examples like the invisible planes and stuff like imagination in play and playfulness, like kids, didn't, have problems thinking about their future self. They were having massive imagination and they were failing even in their imagination, and I think you can practice that like ninety like so many of my goes, don't occur like because I'm dreaming, big and also I than that and playing with them. I always see it like the draft of a book like that is what I'm going for and then like a week from now, I'm like. Oh, no, actually it's there and it's it's constantly iterating. So I think it's good to just be playful and like think, if you're, starting to like have a vision, like- maybe you want to run a marathon- maybe one or to run marathon- who knows- maybe

If now know those goals will even matter but just play with it, have fun with it like learn to practice, thinking about the future and imagining the future and ultimately taking little steps. You know like I just think it's it's just something you have to practice. You have to actually do it like most people, you know, and I'm just talking to the listener right now like how much time in the last week have you actually visualize thought about and journaled about your future self like put yourself in the shoes of your future self and then actually or to analyze from the like what we talked about before what eighty percent of your life right now is actually honestly like lesser goals or in direct opposition to what you want, that you're still just kind of maintaining out of habit or fear, and so it's not about just becoming that person today. But it's about being on the is it like? This is something you want in starting to communicate that even language like starting to talk about it is in a lot of ways how you start to do it. So if you even just start to hear yourself say

words, maybe on a marathon or maybe I wanna, write that book or maybe I wanna go travel the world that language and starting to talk about it starts to come. if your language in your future are very connected. Yeah. I'd also add to that, to focus only on what not on how cause lots of people in your start to obsess like they won't allow themselves to dream of something bag or anything at all, because there is that Anna little mind, that's it

it's going. How? How are you going to do that? If you're only allowing yourself to dream of what you're going to come up with such bigger concepts, if you know what, then you can begin to go? Okay, but some day, what would what would need to be true in order for that to be my reality? So, just talking about this, the other day with my boyfriend, he loves the mountains and he loves to go hike, and he has some time off right now and so he's really craving like going off in the mountains by himself and like wandering, and I keep going like you should go- do that. That's such a huge part of who you are you, love that you should go. Do that he's like yeah, but I just you know you're, so busy have a book to turn in all these things are happening, and I want to be supportive of you and my kids are about to go back to school and so he's just like I want to be here. I don't want to like jump.

when you are trying to do all these things at one time, and I would like first, why love you thank you for that supportive partner, but at the same time, instead of just deciding that some things not possible, ask yourself how could that be possible? So how could you have your dream of going? You know rock climate or whatever by yourself for a week and also feel, like you were being a gun in support of partner. So here you know, hey, we could organise in advance, and you would know in advance that I have the support that I need an you wouldn't feel stress that you're sort of leaving an I'm also telling you. there are ways to get to what you want

so many ways to achieve the same goal, but we get stuck in the idea that if it can't be this exact way that it's not gonna work for us so yeah, I couldn't agree more how how I've kind of learned to think about it is rather than figuring out the how from the current self like, usually because we don't know the path right now we get all clogged up and stuff eat rather than working towards that goal. You actually wanna work from the goal right, and so you you've think about what would need to be true like if it was True, and if we were doing it, then what and the like a big aspect of hope actually is called pathways. Thinking is finding pathways of getting where you want to go in. There are always a pathway like if you, if you commit to it, you find it you, you will find a path that maybe omit messy path will be a crazy path.

But it I'm learning more and more, it's better to think and act from the future rather than the present stick. If this was true, what what would I need to do to get it? You start pulling the future to you. You start strategizing for the future, rather than trying to figure out how to get there from the present, and so that's that's why I think Imagine that it's true that you figure it out that he figured out how to live in the mountains. How'd you make that real. You know like how did they make it real? How did you feed yourself whose already solved it got it like you? Just? U starch astray guys from the outcome we want, rather than strategizing towards the outcome you want, so you just let the future dictate the strategy rather than the present, so god the book that we're talking about its beer feed, herself? Now is actually not even why we are the big picture

I know I love this because now we get to talk about another subject, that I absolutely love and I feel like we're disturbing this audience so well and these things are going to tie together really nicely. So we have this idea, the future self and guys the book is so good. I read it in less than a day, absolutely loved. It started reading it again, knowing that you were coming and then I was like calm down, but it's not actually how I learned about, then I learned about Ben, because my accountant and I are very constant trade book recommendations and she was like. Oh, have you heard of this book and she told me about the idea. I think I looked it up on amazon or something and then went to a bookstore and biotics. We want to support local. and so I went over and grabbed it and- and I mean read it in the afternoon- was all I talked about and was so funny

literally, we took it with makes us finishing it to go with me on a plane to florida. Actually, and sue. I've never done this with a book, but I gotta give this to someone. I'm am going meet someone this week and that actually really needs this book and ended up in a common. Nation with a woman I would like here like got. I just finished disco this bar and then bought another copy, because I that so much I was like. I know that I'm gonna need to learn this out to somebody else, so I mean any can tell you cake and tell you my boyfriend, like I talked about this, but this book is called the gap versus the game dammit the gap in the gap at the gate. Ok, will you explain this concept and I want to

yeah. I want to hear why you liked it cause that private more exciting to your audience, so I first read so to give a little bit a background in two thousand fourteen in the fall. That's when I first heard my phd programme- and I was really did not in entrepreneurship- it was not an entrepreneur, and so I was actually studying, like my research the difference between wanna behind and entrepreneurs and my aunt jane, who runs and herbal company out of salt lake city She was like diving into entrepreneurship, and she became aware of Dan solomon dance over in the street founder for teacher coaches, like almost eighty has been around for like forty five years teaching entrepreneurs is like this legend in that field. I had no clue who I was just just starting school. You know like it's just very into personal development stuff like that, but she would start sending me these little quote: books by Dan Sullivan and I'd flip through them, and I was just like in love with these ideas.

And that's when I started blogging and started integrating a lot of his thinking but anyways in anyways fast forward. We end up getting to know each other. We write a book called who not habit to be fully honest with you. The reason I wrote the first book within which was the right book to write, was because I really wanted to write yeah seriously like, and so he has all these little books and he had- and I just heard coming through, all of my life came across this little book called the gap in the, and I read it on- I wrote blog posts about it because I loved it thoroughly simple book. His his books are very simple. basically, the main idea in their so many implications and so will go under those whatever direction you want. What are we like, but the main ideas is that We all have ideals, you know we have that future self. We all have where we want to be, but especially as a high achiever- and I know that you said a lot of your people- are massive high achievers

if you're always measuring yourself against your ideal, measuring your current self against your ideal, you're, always in the gap- and you can do this about anything so like this- is where Dan really discovered it is cause he's, always training, high level. Entrepreneurs they'd get together need say, tell me about the last ninety days in japan, research rattling off all these things that happen there say yeah, but on it it could have been way better cause. I could have done this. I could have done that. I could have done this and so they've just shared their progress, but then, immediately devalue it like literally, they just basically make it worth nothing because they said I should have been here or we could have done this. So that's the gap is where your measuring yourself or your situation, against, where it ideally should be in your mind- and this is in my opinion, were trauma is is- is that You have a trauma, means your measuring your past against what you thought. It should have been where you thought you should be, and how is she

ive gone when you know what I mean, you know what I mean yeah. I do yeah you're good yeah you're, still looking at your past in the gap where you're like it should have gone this, where I could have been this much farther blah blah blah. You've got this story about the past and you've put it in the gap where it's not up to the ideal that you have and how dan explains it is that ideals are like the horizon in the desert like it gives direction. Ideals are amazing, it's good to have a vis, it's good to have goals. It's good to have your future yourself and it provides direction, does not matter how many steps or how fast you're running towards that horizon. It's going to keep going, and so, if you compare your current self to that moving horizon and think you should be there. You're always gonna be in the guy like you're, always gonna feel like a failure and and this we often high achievers are depressed or they are unhappy because they're always measures themselves against the next ideal, which is that moving target they are always devaluing everything you ve done. They ve never, there never feeling good interfere, successful, and so this,

this book was primarily about happiness. Honestly, along the way, but also counter intuitively. I think that that's actually, what makes you more successful in the long run yeah the gain is the opposite. The gain is when you're measuring yourself against nothing external or even against the ideals in your head, you're. Only measuring yourself against an internal against where you were in the past and so you're just measuring. against? Where was I yesterday? Where was I a month ago? Where was a year ago? I have no comprehension of you and your path, so why would I compare myself to you like? We have different journeys. We have different futures. We have different passions, like if I'm measuring myself against you, I'm going to be in the gap, because I can find a million areas where you're doing better than me or I can, and so it's just not relevant. The only thing that's relevant is comparing myself with where I was before, and so now I'm just measuring myself and again I m seeing my progress appreciating my progress on value, my progress like giving you- and I were talking like at the beginning- this conversation like you That's where you want your new studio to be automatic. Look at your studio now,

if compare it with, where you were a year ago, yeah right hundred percent, I say you'll you'll, get that like you'll get there and look where you are now it's crazy. How in So the gain is just only measuring backwards. Yeah I'm, but it's also increasing the value of your experience. Is it's turning experiences? Indians, you go through something challenging lose a loved one. You know your business fails, you know a relationship and rather than comparing it with what it should have been, what were the gains? How can you turn this into a gain? How can you be better? How can you learn from this because you are further than you were before and now you can? You can turn the experience into a game, and that's really when a trauma becomes post. Traumatic growth is when you're no longer viewing it as something negative. That's left you like lesser yes, but you're, actually, better because of it and you're grateful for it and you've gained a lot through yeah, so the reason I loved the book so much is because I have experienced massive success in my life. I dont want some terrible, but that, as we have had some experience, massive success and

I barely remember any of it. I dont acknowledge it. Always Amy fall uncomfortable. I am the queen of I would achieve something and I would joy about it for five minutes before I was already thinking about the next thing that I need to achieve- and I know I am not- the only one views of talks about this with so many friends who felt the same way and for the longest time. I think I said myself the believed that this was hum you know, I'm not gonna like I'm, not gonna have a big head about the things that I have achieved or the things that our team is done or the things I ve been able to experience, because I don't think about them, but it's actually. This really worked like very detrimental way of thinking, because it never enough, and when I read the book I was just like this concept of your constantly measuring yourself between

where you are now where you want to be, and you will never be forth suit. this. I literally imagine this like this little person who's that looking ahead literally just turning round and looking backwards and going ok, but tell me things you ve done last six months last year and when challenge they think the book prompts things like this. When you challenge yourselves Ok, what have you achieve right or what have you done and you start making a list of a month six months, five years, it's like wholly crap. Oh my gosh yak, as just this like. Oh, I gotta work harder and I gotta do more and I got an it's like such an unhealthy ideology, and this gives you such he's over. Oh, no, no, you are making great progress. You're, making great strides is not looking at. It is super helpful for me, and I think anyone is the

you grant three the high achiever. That feels like what I am describing, I think it's life changing informations hague, I've. This episode is brought to you by the First, ever toyota grand highlander, we are deep in the midst of fall and for my family that means road trips. Mostly involving me acquiring one million pumpkins for real, nobody cares about the bumpkins, but me, but all four kids in the car and we had out on the road, the grand highlander has all the space you need to handle. Any family situation plus grand highlanders third row leg room makes long road trips grant more, means. Less fighting less fighting means more memories, also seriously guys the first four grand highlander has team computers

Do you want me to tell you why that is the most amazing thing? If you know you know, and if you have four kids, you know learn more at twenty oda dotcom, flash grand highlander. for gifts that bring holiday joy, I had to ulta beauty, and that includes gifts for yours. Truly, like this dyson air wrap the statement gift of the season For mom, and for me here a floral carolina, Herrera fragrance into luskin, cared kit where my secret santa and I got these shimmering pat mcgrath and tart eye shadow pilots from my friend Jan ante up for me shop. They gives that bring joy to everyone on your list. This holiday sees it also beauty. The possibilities are beautiful. pardon the interruption. We know interruptions can be annoying like when your cars, oil change light comes on. When you have a million things to do, we call that oil change society

but at valvoline instant oil change, we like making interruptions shorter so we'll make this fast. Oil changes in about fifteen minutes stay in your car. While you watch us work. Three eighteen point: safety check, included fight oil change society at valvoline, instant oil change, visit, a location near you truly there's this part. I think it's in this book and not the future self, but you know you've got so many bucks, it's hard for me to remember which one which but there's a story you tell about de, I think it's the english rowing team where there, the idea of will make the boat go faster than I just love. Is that that gap is that it is no it. I love it, and I think there such incredible clara in, like just being that folk,

based on where you're going. Do you remember that story? Yeah yeah? Basically it was oh yeah. It was basically about the idea of having a clear success criteria and clarifying like what is success, but the british rowing team pretty much their objective was to win the gold. Obviously, this was like for the olympics and they pretty much just developed a single question filter like a decision filter for It did. I think this fits honestly really good with the future self as well, but it's like every every opportunity or option that was presented to them. They just ask themselves through the decision. Filter will will just make the boat go faster and if the answer was no, they said no yeah, and so it's just like you know I stay up late and hit up the party or go to bed for practice. What will staying up and stuff you know, will that make the boat go faster if the answer's? No, the answer's, no inside one of the reasons. Why is actually one of the reasons why this is good is because, when the problems in this kind of what you were even talking about issues with high achievers there, often not there there, their power

becomes blurry, it's like literally, not it doesn't have a lot of texture and development. so like one of the reasons why the gain is so beautiful is like? I can look back on the last seven days and if I actually just took fifteen minutes to think about it or even ten What actually occurred in the last seven days, I'm going to start to actually literally think about it and journal about it without distraction holy crap. A lot just happened and actually massive milestones that my self was like dream about. Actually a lot of those things are now my normal life lake. Ok, that now you ve just given it context you ve just given texture and like whether things it dan talks about that. I really like, as is that, if your past is immeasurable, your future probably as well and so like wow yeah. So like one of the things that this does, is it allows your pass to be measurable. You can actually measure where you are vs, where you were before. You can actually quantify to some degree what the heck just happened in the last week, and so

As you get better measuring your own progress, you get better at developing clear criteria for your future and so the goal, as is the I have more and more like a measurable future, but honestly, in my opinion, way, more importantly, a miserable past and like you, can actually look back on the last week and the last month and you can actually see where your differ. from your past self, take honestly even myself, like I've, been reading some really cool books lately and, like I've, been doing some hard thinking and I've gone through some changes in the last week like past me a week ago versus past me today. That is talking to you. I'm pretty different, actually and I can see why- and I can see the experiences that are happening. I can see how I'm changing, how I value things and civic. And what I'm going for and what I care about, and so it just allows you to check back and see your progress value, your progress care about your progress and, interestingly, that actually gives you more confidence and imagination towards the future too.

What's so interesting is, I think, I'm really good. I don't even think I know I'm really good at granted to work and working for blessings, and you know what great things surprise. today and my feeling, like the universe and god is like taking care of me and sending these beautiful little moments a hummingbird outside the window, or you know of an amazing time. My kids or whatever, I'm so good at seeing these sort of magical things come up in life, but not as good as acknowledging the good things I have done right and or like oh yeah, you worked really hard and you ve changed the way that you do without trauma. You actually hard- and you now have this relationship with your kids that you didn't used to have like these are the things that you can acknowledge in yourself and I just so needed this reminder at the exact time that I was able to read this book, because I don't want to raise kids who,

this, like I, have some I achievers in my mix of four children already and I really am trying to hold consciousness. I love them being eggs. actually who they are. But I don't want one of my kids in particular. I do not want him to have to face some of the same stuff that I have like we. We started talking recently about his anxiety cause. I started to notice that use having these moments and I'm like Hey? Are you tell me in use and my k and tell me about that? that few liken I'm just like oh buddy. If I can help you figure this out at your age, age and set about thirty nine, I feel like I can save you so much time to just allow. Go of these perceptions are look how far you ve calmer. So it's one of the things that like, if we can't figure it out for ourselves to figure it out for the people we influence feels hugely important. I think every coach or pay

and were teacher if they dont understand the gap and again there- probably always in the gap about yet another kid, for example, admittedly this was one of the reasons I wrote. The book is and I'm still by the way in the gap. Probably more than half the time like sousa. Actually I'm glad we're talking about this, because I need some serious reminders right now, we ve been on lots of trips. Lately it make it, and you know I I need to appreciate their progress, a lot more one of the things it's kind of reminded me of what you were saying is: is we all have a lens of the world right and you you, you train that worldview and you see what you're looking for, and so, if For example, me as apparent, I'm always seeing this thing about my kid: the bugs me right that train myself. That's what I'm looking for. That's what I'm expecting.

and in psychology. There's a concept for the pig malian effect that basically people rise or fall to the expectations that you have for them, or you rise or fall to the expectations of those around you and have you seen this? Unlike educational studies, riah like if a tea you're believes that a student is gifted. The student will actually there's some like study and I'm getting where it was like they they got. The test long or they gave them they their own. I'm butchery. It's actually agreed. Last august, unlike I read a book, none of those. My back, I just work as this argument. They spent well

What city and I'll go back to back to the worldview, but in that study the researchers told the teachers- and this was for second and third grade teachers that they basically gave the students I q tests and that these students are gifted and the students are non gifted and they gave the teachers a list of you know. We gave your students, I q test, here's the list of gifted and here's the list of non gifted and they predicted that the gifted students would obviously like learn and develop way more throughout the school year and that's what happened and then at the end of the school year they told the teachers you know hey like just so. You know we actually didn't give them my q tests. That was totally random assignment, like we just made that up like none of those know, there's no different. You know like we didn't do that and so like that

add, but there's so much truth to that, and I see that myself with my kids that, like especially with the older three that we adopted, I'm like I'm getting what I'm expecting and I am seeing what I'm expecting, and so one of the reasons why I like the gain in a practice is like a muscle. You This is why, like literally at the end of the day like like, look back and find those gains like see where you're making progress, see where your kids making progress, because if you don't see it yourself, you don't see it in others and so like. If I actually sat and thought about, for example, my ten year old son logan- and I thought about who he is now versus where he was six months ago, if I don't actually take time to practice, thinking about it and seeing that action are there so many things he's grown out of that used to bother me or like heat, there's something in by the way. If I'm bother, that's my fault, what I mean, but there are so many things that like he can do, he's he's developing so far, but if I'm not thinking about this or from that practice in this, I assume he still who he was six months ago and I'm talking to him this

way, and I am- and I keep telling him where he's not coming up and even if he is making massive progress, if I'm in the gap is all I'm saying is, is what we have It's you there yet right. Why aren't you there yet like my son, Caleb who's fourteen he's so into tennis and I'm blown away at how? How much he's progressing and like I could easily just say yeah, but why did you in their last tournaments or like we have eu shots? I could be. We can always find the gap, but if you help point out the gain, then they start to appreciate. They start actually see their own gains and feel it and that's that's, I think, very healthy, but it also propels confidence. It propels them to leg, just be in their own game yeah. Why? I also think that if you have more than one can It is very easy to put one of unintentionally to put a kid, a gap, because your comparing them to some one else, and I definitely think because my kids have such distinct personalities that I think of them like this is the star

a student who wants to go to an ivy league college. This is the athlete this is the artists like that. So such a plan their personality, but I realize this recently I'd love, em he's like the class counties most charming kid. I have he. loves, a group loves a party very, very similar. To me in a lot of ways is the athlete has always gotten incredible grates incredible it's not because I am not that parent, that's like you, gotta get the had. That's not me, he's done it because that's just what they do. That's his personality and it wasn't until like a year ago, that I was like oh dame you're, so smart, you get your you're doing the same thing that your brother is doing. You're, different personalities and soil really celebrate the athlete in him cause I'm like that's who he is, and I We celebrate the student and this son because that's who he is

I'm not acknowledging, I feel like on some level, I'm limiting both of them by not looking for ways that they are more than just one thing or sitting deciding that one is one and one is the other, so that was a here. One for me of considering where with it- heads, do I? Where do I hold gaps? My fight? your daughter is so sassy, and so I mean she's adopted God is like you were, never going to get any other kind of girl cause. This is where you are, but she's a handful and spend a handful, her whole life and it can be. You know when you're exhausted, I care argue with you anymore over this thing, and me just don't, have the patience, it's very easy to get frustrated. If I look back to where she was a year ago, oh my gosh. She has gone

and so much and learn so much and is just flourishing. If I look to a year ago, but I'm just looking at this current moment and all I'm saying is my own frustration right, my own eggs in my own, like comparing her too, who I wish she was being right now. It's always gonna come up shore and the thing is whether it's our relationships with our partners are family or friends- are children. People perceive even if its nonverbal, you think of them, and this idea of teachers like the students in your class. Living up to what you perceive this. If you think about a teacher and someone says, hey bees, twenty kids are gifted their genius. I accuse and then these kids are not. If the genius iq heads start acting up. They are doing that your light, oh part of ingenious,

probably there just that their own like unique thing. That's who that you make excuses based on the belief you have about someone so finding a way to shift your perception I feel like is so powerful, forget that bring holiday joy. I had to ultra beauty, and that includes gifts for yours. Truly, like this dyson aircraft. This statement gift of the season for mom and for me here, a floral carolina, Herrera fragrance into luskin cared kit where my secret santa- and I got these shimmering pat mcgrath and tart eye shadow pilots from my friend Jan ante. Up for me shop. They gives that bring joy to everyone on your list. This holiday sees it also beauty. The possibilities are beautiful, pardon the interruption. We know, interruptions can be annoying like when you're cars, oil change, light comes on. When you have a million things to do, we call that Well change. Ziad

but eventually needs an oil change. We like making interruption shorter so will make this vast oil changes it about. Fifteen minutes stay in your car. While you watch us work free eighteen point: safety check include fight oil chain society at valve leniency in oil change, visit a location near you beyond looking backwards are the things that people can deal too find and see more gains, yeah and think about it as a kid or even think of at yourselves like if someone in your life actually recognizes and not only recognizes but acknowledges your progress like they actually point out like here notice that, like you've, actually been a lot more patient lately in these situate, if you're apparent near your regularly pointing out and appreciating and showing them look. Maybe they don't even notice it themselves because their train in a gap, culture right like we do live in a gaps

said you were always measuring ourselves against others on social media and stuff and whatnot, but like one is, is certainly like regularly take time like for me. One of the things we recommend in the book is obviously like just like write it down every night, like we just five minutes like literally right down the progress you've made her, you could write down the progress you've. Seen in your kids, like over the last week, like you have to kind of just take time like it I need to be more than like five minutes a day, or maybe like fifteen minutes on the weekend, where you're, just like. Let's just look back on this weekend, yeah all hell broke loose but like what were some of the gains like you know like we, we have three kids that we adopted. We have three other ones and like they all have challenges, and it can be easy just to obsess on the challenges. But it's like what wait. What in that week went well? Oh wait. Yeah, like my daughter, Jordan, for example. She sometimes can challenges she's, very strong she's, like a strong girl. She can be strong woman. There were a lot of really good moments like even like yesterday. She

you had a great morning, sometimes she struggles in the morning yesterday. She was super helpful in the morning like point that out, right, like you have to take time to like actually become more aware, and then you pointed out, and you talk to people about it, you get in the game about it. For other people, you point out other people's As you point out your own gains, so I think just taking the time it's for literally retraining your worldview, so that that's more what you're paying attention to that more. What you're, seeing that's more, what you're knowledgeable and as you do that for others, you will start like it's amazing cause, then your kind of training them to see their own gains, use, training and This is actually the big big idea in the book that maybe didn't even come out as clearly as it should have, and maybe I now understand it more than that. What's really interesting is like for myself, the only person who has access to my past and my experience is me. I can't access your experience. I can't even in this conversation you and I are having totally differ

Experiences I'll never be able to get to your experience. I'll never be able to get to my daughter's experience, and so for me, the only person whose opinion of my own expert, hence the matters as my own cause, I'm the only one who can even have it ray it's my experience. You can't get there. You can't tell me what it means. You can't tell me what it says, and so, if I choose to determine what my own experience means and if I choose to create value from my own experience whatever it was, my parents get a divorce blah blah blah. I that's my experience. I get to choose what that means. I get to choose to create value from it. I can to choose. You know how I, how I see it and I think, in the end, training our kids, that their opinion of their own expense it matters more than my experience take. So I watched my kid play. Tennis yeah could point out the gains that I see, but what's way more interesting is what do you see like? What did that experience mean to you like what we're your gains? How are you deaf?

from where you were before that tennis match, and so it rather than even needing to project. My opinion of the matter is his opinion of his own gains are infinitely more interesting and important than my opinion of his gains and once he starts playing in that realm because he could even go in the gap without worrying about what I think about his progress. I'm an external aspects like I'm, not him. He just needs to measure himself backwards. His perspective of his games, his perspective of his growth in meta and just becoming curious and saying what did you learn when your gains? What did you see from that experience and helping him do that? But vice versa be doing it for myself, like when I, when I walk away from this conversation, you know you'll have gotten your own gains. All have got my own, but what matters for me is how my different, because of that conversation, what did I learn like? What's now different for me? What's my experts?

It's only my experience. It's just me and my experience you and your experience yeah. It requires a slowing down. It requires contemplation, which I I know can be difficult for people, because we're going so fast and sometimes you don't want to unpack or we don't want a journal or we don't want to meditate or pray, because we don't want to think about the stuff that we don't want to acknowledge. but I found like anything else. This type of thing is a practice that what I love about a practices there's no right way to do it, but your practising at it becoming something. That's more part of who you are and. You need reminders concept like I am. I love the book. I've talked about it a time even sitting here through you, I'm oh yeah. I remember that and I want to take the oh. I want to pull that into what I'm trying to do so that book is, I just feel like they should get both the books. I know you have more than

two, but those are the two I've read, so I can highly recommend at both. I will say I think the gap and again, like I love both books. The gap in the gain is a very important book because it's a very unique message. It feels so good like whenever I do it, even if I just sit after this conversation when I'm in my uber going back to the carp, I actually sat and just listed the gains on different timeframes and by gains I mostly mean like for soft literally just what happened. What are my experiences? What some form of progress? What have I learned? How am I like? The gains can be anything gains can be experiences, you've had things, you've learned, positive experiences, maybe achievements, maybe learning from a from a difficulty, but in the great part, is you can do it on different time frames, if I'm sitting in the journal on on my uber home, you know, or to the airport after this, because now I'm thinking about the gap and again again the great parenting on different timeframes. It's like okay, what happened this week or about the month? Okay? What about the year like what about the last three months? You can look at it.

in the time frames and it just first off it does feel good seriously. It feels great like to just list it out and just look at it and be like that was a big week like it wasn't it wasn't. Perfect perfection is the gap right. I can look at all the gaps I want, but this is some progress. One thing I will say that the book did for me writing it is like I'm a high achiever, I'm a gapper all the time like I'm. U no gap, those being fully honest when my first book came out, willpower doesn't work. You know I had all these ambitions of it being on the new york times are less like so many authors and I remember it not hitting and remember feeling like an utter failure or failure, and I, like I didn't know what I was doing so I was doing all sorts of money at it and stuff like that and just trying all these things and it it didn't, do what I wanted it to, and so then I felt like a failure. when, in truth, where I was was actually ben, you just published your first book. It sought five or ten thousand copies, that's further than you with

weeks ago in the because now right, but I was not acknowledging any that progress I was in acknowledging. ah the mountains, I climbed even just to write a book like because I didn't hit some some ideal, I felt like a failure and I remember going through deep depression and even right now you know just honestly. The future self book is not reaching expectation right, but the two. this is like I am further than I was last week. It sold x amount of copies more than it did the week ago, and so it's like you're always actually further than your past. maybe your ideals have gone massively through the roof. You know which we often do when you become more successfully your ideals shoot through the roof right, because that's your imagination that moments? That's great drive you. You know that. But if you don't really genuinely appreciate the who where we now is always further than where you were yesterday. Yes, you're always further, I would also like to add that it.

Way easier to have a vision and to work on something when you're the alone. Who cares about it? Because one of the crazy things that happen when you get more successful is now other people are invested in the success grow wash your face. So millions of gas. It was my sixth book. Nobody cares about the five that came before it right, so six but comes out of nowhere. Does this thing miracle of miracles? Thank god. I had already written the follow up before it came out, and I am so grateful because, if I hadn't. If I hadn't read the follow up, I don't think I would have ever written another book against. It was too much pressure, so I just had this like this books out. People are hungry for Our boom here comes one year later, in all works than its big arc and whatever and then

I really wanted to write a book inside of covert about going through hard things about living through trauma and the hacks in the skills and the tools and whatever that we could use that would help us navigate these hard times, because I've lived through a lot of hard times, and that was a very hard season and that book debuted at number two on the new york times best seller, and old, more copies, then most authors will ever seen their entire lifetime and it is a failure. According to my publisher, win Other people are invested in your success. Now, every thing for me, according to the publisher, will be compared to grow, wash your face, which I can not replicate, no matter how hard I try and if I actually tried I would stop writing I would start creating. I don't know how to create the magical unicorn that was that book. Unless I just keep

doing the work to the best of my ability- and I told you earlier- I dont- have ego around humble things. I feel so freaking grateful that I get to live this life, but when you have other people who alike, it's not doing you know we really were hoping that it was gonna in a cell of the advanced by now, and it's not and it's so much pressure on you, especially if you aren't achiever. If you got any people pleasing to sees inside of you. You want to make sure that everybody likes it so much pressure. So I feel like it's worth saying for us for other people who are listening, to be mindful of where you get forced into the gap because of other people's perception of your work or your efforts, not because of what actually matters to you and I'm super grateful, I think that the last book

is one of the most important things have ever written. I think actually huge gains for you, yeah yeah, that the people that it helped the stories that I've heard from that book, our way more profound, then they on anything that I had written previously. It wasn't funny- and it wasn't light hearted and it wasn't, but I'm proud of that work and am also actually super grateful for the recent, like, I feel, like it level set expectation. So now the publisher, is it hoping Sure it's their dislike. Well, can you do? What can you deal so? Yeah is worsening man. I know what that feels like and I remember when it it got. It was at number two and it didn't hit number one, that's insane when I'm even Thanks to you is insane, but I remember how disappointed everyone was and that I felt like I had felt because I didn't get to number one, and I just I think one of the most.

biggest gifts we can give ourselves is to just remove that expectation that other people are putting on us in our success because it doesn't it doesnt, sir it's. Have you ever heard my story about getting on the veneer times they appear. So am I think every author I mean author and you haven't thought about that- are good for you're not gonna everyone. Everyone accident, everyone thinks about it with every book. When he didn't know what I was doing when one hundred people would buy the book like when I self published I was like, maybe it'll make the list. I had no idea right so with each subsequent book now we're getting into book six. I've hoped- and it just has never worked, and with grosch your face. I knew that was my best hope of having a book at the less because it was the most that ice were built up a little audience

when I not married anymore, but when I was married years ago on our wedding, someone has given us a bottle of don paragon and it wasn't. A sham during her and I I knew that it was a very expensive bottle. So I was like I can't just drink this. I it's gotta be special, so I took a piece of tape and I wrote on the front new york times bestseller and for ten years I carded that whenever we moved houses it would go into would be in the fridge at my office. It would be in the fridge at home so that every time I open the refrigerator, I would senior comes vessel in new york times. Solar and every time a book would launch. I would think maybe this is it a burma would cry when it didn't happen, grow wash your face. Launching you do the whole promoter campaign and that's a big deal. and I remember that you know it's like you- one tuesday, or what every way to weaken the monopolies. Do they call you you're like a bird, the moon and they were like it and make the last and for books usually

It's like a movie opening if it doesn't do on the beginning, you're sort of done- and I was so I just bald my balls, I'm so sad. I was so disappointed in myself. You know my dreams or dad I'm never gonna get this. I dont know how to get this whatever. So aside, I had a good cry kind of like move on with my life, and I just keep doing the work and promoting the book and it keeps growing and it keeps growing it keeps growing. Gosh, rebates and growing. What do you actually mean. I don't know the numbers but grow wash your face got on the new york times less three months after it came out. That does not happen. Like it's like one and you go or you don't go at all who is it like a came out, it was great it came out and then just gradually got bigger yeah and, to be honest, Then my success in every part of my life has always been word of mouth. It has it's, like one person told another, tells their mama tells a friend, visor sister or take it. Does the thing you know, people like oh tells you

dinner digital best, digital marketing advice, no mike, you shorter community for fifteen years, and they euro serve you back, but it when it finally got on the list. It stayed there for a year and a half crazy, but in that molt first, while best best drink a champagne you ever had were entirely and if you go in my fridge right now, there's a whole drawer. That's champion bottles like whenever I get a fancy. Shame shampoo model as a gift. It would take on it and call another goal, and it just sits and some day you know it'll to be a. I think. That's that's a good time. Capsule chemical, yeah, but I just I say that, because you get it sort of, I dunno. If you feel like this, but I I feel like we can get, we can convince people that dream, and not by into the idea right. You get a publisher to commit to making a book and they'll. Do The thing whatever and you're, like I dunno the little one, did child and me like. Finally, someone believes in me and then it doesn't work,

the way everyone wanted it to and then they stop believing and you're like oh, but Have realised more and more as I've gotten older that you only need one person to believe in you, and that is yourself and that view version of you, that's willing to keep showing up ray and key. Writing more words, and if I'm, if that's your dream, maybe takes ten books Maybe it takes one more. Maybe it's this one and you no yeah sure, but I just wanna put that out into the world because it so easy to feel like you are existing in some kind of gap, because someone else had an expectation one of you that was never aligned with what it was. You are trying to do so beautifully said

First off it reminded me that we get placed in the gap regularly by other people and vice versa. We put other people in the gallery and that gap, if it's from someone else is there the ideal for you right, and so we do that for our kids right words like we put them in the gap, but we're not it's not their ideals are ideal. them. One thing that was really interesting and again: this is where this is kind of what this book continues to do for me I remember recently me and Dan actually spoke on a stage pretty big stage together and it's fun to be with Dan because he's like so pat, he goes in the gap, but like he's pretty trained out of it, like he's he's literally like we, we got up and we did a presentation. We were talking about the new book we were talking about. It was not good. according to maybe my standards right likely like like a like we're not doing this well, unlike afterward as when you think about that as a great maize.

It is amazing, and then I went. I talked to a few other people. Tat was some. You know what I mean and then I talked to the person he was like. He knew dan's work very well and he was like dude. You failed. if you're left then don't go, and- and I just remember thinking about all this and thinking I remember being on the stage and AZ thinking about the gap in the industrializing back to the whole idea like No one else has access to this experience, but me like I'm the only person who gets to decide if this is a gap or again I'm really person who gets to learn from this, I'm alone defines the meaning of this. I'm the only one. This is me and so like if I can't actually live up to the one or the other other people's experiences or their expectations, for what they want to be. The only thing I can do is to find my own experience, it literally, and so I was complete peace literally your peace. This concept

blew my mind when I started to explore more was like the definition of what is good and what is bad. and I don't mean, like good, assure her like a view disney villain or whatever, but I mean how, often in our lives, have we define something is really good that when we look back actually was very hurtful for us and how many times have we looked at a season? A member is a really bad crappy seas, and then later, like. Oh my gosh. That brought me these three things: I wouldn't be this person if I hadn't gone through it, so the concept of good good or bad or more than anything, sort of chasing what feels comfortable to us. What feel nice in the moment. Really detrimental and how crazy, I think of like an apple tv. He is a soccer coach that goes to england to be occur ted lasso never heard of it.

there was even too is very title goes reared, but season, one you have to watch, it is, oh god, and maybe we'll be on your plane when you're headed back. So Imagine like middle america he's a college coach and you know how seriously they take soccer football. In england, an english team hires hand to come coach, their major league team, knowing that he's totally unqualified for this job is like a whole backstory and he is the most joy for happy, it's just always good. It's just so pause, everybody hates somebody refuses to see. Any situation is bad and it is the best. Oh you have to watch. You will make you feel so good, but it really is such a definition of like we decide if the moments back

we decide that there are these things that I can be stress out about, but you know I'm going to go ahead and have a good day anyway rebel. You know we decide how we feel about something, and I don't think that most people can step outside themselves enough to grasp that car

except we were taught by mom and daddy are a family of origin that this was good and this is bad and we don't really ever ask if that's incorrect and that we get to define it. One thing that I think you're seeing, which is massive, is first off. If you look back on anything from your past and you just cancel it out as a failure, because it didn't go according to the ideal or what was expected, you've just thrown that away right and even me, for example like not hitting the bestseller list whatever like. If I just toss it away, is a failure not only have I just devalued it, but I'm no longer getting good stuff from it. I've just devalued my own experience, which is just mind, but now I'm getting. I'm not getting better because of it, I'm still bitter and, like I think, trauma any form of trauma like so my parents. You know their divorce right or my dad being a drug addict. If I just say terrible childhood, I just throw it off.

Failure or why me you know, and I'm the by product of my experience rather my experiencing the wet byproduct me if you throw anything from your passed away and you say It's no good. I got nothing from that or it wasn't what I was supposed to be it was. It was a lost cause. Then you're still in the gap about it and you're not gain gaining from it. You've talked very openly about your divorce. Like my wife was divorced before I ever met her and like I could I first have. I had no opinion of that. Obviously, but I remember she really didn't talk about it much for a long time, but I think now I think, she's massively in the again as she wasn't again about it from the beginning. never in the gap. Never a failure, never a lost cause, but I actually am still getting gains. Because of that experience I am getting the gains and I think she is too, and so I just think whatever it was

if you throw it down the gutter and say that was not a valuable expensive that wasn't what it was supposed to be. Then you're, not learning from your own experience and you're, not you not actually getting the fruits the benefits of experience and also its your choice, yeah at how you see a b and again about it. You realize you are better you. Are better and you can be grateful for it. That's really what puss dramatic growth is as your great full. It happened europe and you keep getting gains from. I keep getting gains from my my childhood. They from my dad- and he and I are so close now- I know- he's still getting gains from his experience. and you can keep getting more and more and more benefits and gains from a single experience.

Just because you're a different person analyzing. It now will- and it's also, I think, goes back to the idea of identity, which is where we started. This whole conversation, what a beautiful way to tie it all together. But if you had had that experience where you spoke on stage and we're like that soft. I sought from a terrible speaker and then this guy's revolted me your little yeah he's like well, you really failed your mentor. That was crap. We know whatever if you are careful You will allow that become your identity, I'm a terrible so eager, I'm Earlier, I dont show up for people when I'm supposed to that could be a whole crazy trigger for you, and maybe that keeps you from ever speaking on stage again, because you decided that you are bad That's a trauma, it's something happens in so as a result, you don't do it again right and it ends

of saying like, however, you perceive that feeling of like ok will that didn't work? You know we're edison, making life all by learned a thousand ways not to make a light bulb. There's some is really important because part of identity is being able to shift and sort of control. The way that you see yourself is calling that shot and saying like. If you decide, I am a world class speaker, I'm an incredible thought leader, I'm a teacher. I am these things, and that is the you say you have your life, and that is the direction that you're going then that moment in time that that keynote they in think was as good as it should have been, is a lesson along the way to something greater as opposed to the end, the stop, the definition. Who you are now absolutely I mean it is a lesson along the way, but also the benefits of it were different than I thought like as an example with that talk. Maybe I thought it was supposed to be this, but it did

go that way, but in analyzing I learned totally different things and I was even reflecting on and so, I got way more out of it than I thought it should have been and totally different things out of it, because I had now became open to a totally different way of looking at it so yeah it certainly became a a you know, moving block towards me becoming better also in looking at it from a different angle, I saw much what way more mature angles on it. Then, if I was just only measuring it against a great talk, looking back that oh wow like and actually what was interesting as well, but that one was in talking to some of like it's just also like you know, you publish a book. Some people are going to love it. Some people are going to hate it like some people, it ruined their life. Some people are blessed their life like the same thing

true us of any experience like everyone's only looking at it from their perspective and south again I can never know what any listener of this talk is getting from it, but it's just it's just further taught me like wow like it It really allows you to play your own game That's really what the whole gain is just having a continuous internal referencing system, where you're just playing your own game, but your loving other people you're you're playing games with them and you are you're just on the gain together. Honestly, it's it's a beautiful process, so well this out. Hell you for sure. Whenever you're sector was on this time, this was such a black. I'm so glad you got oh my gosh. This was so amazing. I already know the audience is gonna die for this episode if they want, we talked about the books and we'll definitely put links to those in the show notes. But if they want to follow you on social sign up for your email, will you tell them where they can find all that stuff yeah? I think easiest is,

is that either benjamin hardy dot com or future self dot com, like that those are the easiest spots, that's pretty much it yeah. Thank you so much for the time and I loved it. It was really fun. The rachel Hollis podcast, is produced by me. Rachel Hollis its edited by andrew weller and jack noble. Forget that bring holiday joy. I had to hold the beauty, and that includes gifts for yours, truly like this dyson air, wrapped the statement gift of the season. for mom and for me here a floral carolina herrera fragrance into luskin cared kit where my secret santa- and I got these shimmering pat mcgrath and tart eye shadow pilots from my friend Jan ante up for me shop. They gives that bring joy to everyone on your list. This holiday sees it also beauty. The possibilities are beautiful,

pardon the interruption. We know interruptions can be annoying like when you're cars, oil change, light comes on. When you have a million things to do, we call that oil change society but eventually needs an oil change. We like making interruption shorter so will make this vast oil changes it about. Fifteen minutes stay in your car. While you watch us work free eighteen point. Safety check include fight oil chain society at valve leniency in oil change, visit a location near you