In the book I go and I meet with a guy whose name is t when so it spelled t h, I n g, u y e, n and he's a philosopher of games. He talked about how, when he f it goes on twitter. It's like you know, you use it whatever you're putting whatever and then he he gets a viral tweet. So he writes this kind of funny quip and it just takes off and afterwards what happens. His brain starts to go. What can I do? That would be a funny viral tweet this guy's a philosopher whose job is to think for a living, so he would normally be thinking. Ok, I have this thought it's kind of interesting and relevant to this literally philosophy stuff. I'm doing at a university normally take that down the deep rabbit. Who are you

to unpack all the layers between, because that's like a really complicated stuff right, but once it has a twig of our he starts notice. Instead of taking this thought into this like really deep. This cave or get all this really relevant information. My brain starts to I want. I could get that into two hundred eighty characters and get some more retreat. Yes, I must totally different thing Hi, I'm rachel Hollis, and this is my podcast ice and so many hours of every single week reading and listened podcast and watching youtube videos and trying to find out as much as I can about the world around me and that's what we do on their show. We talk about everything life and how to be an entrepreneur. What happened dinosaurs? What's the best recipe for fried chicken? What's the best plan for energy, in fasting. What's going on with our inner child house therapy working out for you,

however, it is my guests are into. I want to unpack it so that we can all understand These are conversations this information for the curious. This is the rachel Hollis podcast, the one at the top of this, acknowledge that my voice sounds bonkers right now. I have crazy allergies and people are like what is happening. I'm like that friends episode where Phoebe gets a cold, that's what's happening, but we're still here, I'm going to try not to cough, while you say anything wise, but I would love to if you're down. Will you just tell the audience who you are? What you're about what you're into like that? That little moment we can sorta, take it from there yeah. But I'd like to start by saying you missed an amazing opportunity, because you just told me how you running three marathons in three days: yeah, you should have been like. Oh yeah, I just ran like three months.

through tears, ass, my my forces arouse yes, and I now right, I must highlight outward marathons odor, multiple births in a row, and now I'm just the weeny and the average user really get into me this year. So I feel fantastic. My voice sounds crazy. I wish that's why I was horse, but now, make sure look. I saw my name is Michael easter. I'm a professor and a journalist, and I cover health. They cover whileness. I cover psychology got a couple bucks one as the comfort crisis. My new book is scarce. the brain and the basically outside the overarching themes in my book- are how the world

has changed in ways that are often at odds with what makes humans happy and healthy and find meaning. So the cover crisis looks at how, as the world has become more comfortable, we ve lost a lot of the things that improve us humans. Things like let ok, for example, we ve engineered movement out of our lives right. We invented exercise like a hundred fifty years ago because in the past you used to have to physically to survive that just one example, others many others like. We spend ninety three percent of our time indoors now and we know that permit nature is good for people psychologically. We don't experience. Temperature swings the same We used to we've engineered a lot of risk out of our lives, which is good in the grand scheme of things like all these things, I'm talking about good in the grand scheme of things, but at the same time- We have a drive to do the next easiest, most comfortable thing cause that served us in our past environments

I've been for thousands and thousands of years, and it backfires when you put us in a environment that way engineer to be more comfortable in an easier yeah. I had this experience this summer. I've always wondered: walk the community, Santiago familiar my mom? Did that? Did she really fiftieth birthday so sick? There? That's really inspiring. I've always wanted to do it, and I thought I would have to wait until my kids had graduated cause. I can't obviously just

forty days and peace out, but I realized I could do in chunks. It's not as a endurance challenge athletes, not how it typically approach something, but I thought well, that's aware, could actually get to try this and not have to wait in our fifteen more years until my daughter's old enough- and so I went this year to do a week and on the third day so every day or hiking like sixteen miles and we had to take italy chosen the northern route, which is over mountains, gorgeous gorgeous gorgeous but very steep on the third day. We stop at like in a two o clock or something to have lunch and lunches whenever you are able to get at the little village the night before so it's. you know a fresh loaf of bread and this cheese. This. You can't even understand how good this cheeses at the local cheese and that's our lunch right. We had made coffee and put it in little thermos and we're eating bread and cheese and coffee sitting in the dirt

on the side of the road totally exhausted, and I had this epiphany of how seldom we have activity in our life. Where were that hungary where we are as hungary as I was sitting on the side of the road eating bread and cheese. Just like I, my body and I was so hungers- the bet literally top three miles of my life and I'm a fool the top through males in my life and I'm thinkin? Oh, this is the thing that we are not actively doing pursuing count. Our self in ways that we get to the point of being this tired and this hungry for something we choose.

Oh it's like this has been removed from us draw you had told us others. There is research anderson. The research suggests that in the past we moved about fourteen times more than we do today, wow, so the average person was walking. You know anywhere from seven to thirteen miles a day. On average, today the average person takes about four thousand steps which is about two miles, but then the other thing you have to factor in his like. Ok, not only are you covering a lot of ground. in the past, but also its rougher, there's more ups and downs, oh by the way, you're, probably carrying stuff and when decided to rests like you arrested. You're in the dirt, so you might be like squatting, you're, We, like all these things all day that are morpheus, great challenging, and I do think that hunger is the best sauce We tend to be more hungry after we ve done some physical work so another point about that become for crisis. I work at this. How hunger is changed?

eighty percent of eating is now driven by reasons other than true physiological hunger, so we eat because it's like this time, but I normally eat.

I'm bored what should? I do, have swiped your instagram for thirty minutes now. I guess I'll just have a sandwich and what does that do to us, not just physically, but how has that changed cause? I I feel like there's so many different approaches to nutrition right, so there's fasting and keto and like timing, it and nutritional whatever, but if we're constantly eating when we're not hungry, how is that affecting us? Oh well, I mean, besides the fact that we're the most obese country in the world besides that element, so I think the story of improving your life today is that you often often have to go through short term discomfort to get a long term benefit, and I think we have a lot of ways if we're feeling discomfort to deal with it. Internal discomfort, food is one of them, so a lot of people will stress, eat and instead of going okay. Well, why am I stressed out? What can I do?

to like what is this stress telling me, I need to do yeah, it's like a signal right change, something, but you can fix it in the short term, if you don't I'll snack on some eminem's or you pull out your phone and you binge twitter or whatever it is, or insert all these other behaviors that that we overdue. I think that is at a common theme of conversation with me The answer is choosing the thing that will make for better in this exact moment, because it a band aid to the pain that you're feeling right now right, I can have a drink. I can have something to eat. I can now myself by just scrolling. I can now myself by watching netflix for five hours. I can remove myself from what I'm feeling in this moment, because that's fast because all the solutions to sort of get to the core of our issue. It takes time and it takes time to make it better. It takes time to see any results, that kind of

promote the idea of wanting to do more of that same year. Just sort of wanted unpack why that happens, because for some time boy, I'm positive. They hear you say that their like well, what's wrong, wanting to be comfortable what so bad about that you do not do anything wrong if you want to become for one in humans of to want to be comfortable because that DR kept us alive for all of time. So it's not bad. It's just that when you make that choice too often, you tend to see that in the context of today ways to problems here right if you eat every time, whatever the hell, you want any time you want like. We know that's going to lead to problems here if every single time, you feel a twinge of boredom you're like let me go on twitter or instagram like ok. Let me that that's pretty good recipe to start to feel, like you're, crazy person You have stressed out if every time,

when you get the notion to exercise- and you put one foot in from the other and go oh well, this is actually not that comfortable. I think I'll just sit down yeah. It's like these drives that we have It made sense in the past. I don't always anymore, and so you start to see problems pile up and to your sort of question about. Why do we do these things too? As I say, I live in LAS vegas and las vegas is a town that is designed to basically take if people out of moderation right so we everyone knows everything's, fine in moderation, then the questions like okay, well, why the hell can't humans moderate? Why do we suck so bad at it? now in LAS vegas, there are slot machines everywhere. People may not realise this, but there's obviously slot machines and casinos, but there in grocery stores, gas stations are airport yadda everywhere you walk off the jet way and is like you're in a casino and people play these things all the time. So

I'm a journalist and when I make an observation that doesn't seem to make sense, I want to figure out why? Because everyone knows you're never going to win and the longer you play slot machine right or the house always wins. Always las vegas was not built on winners. Yes, so I that's what I want to figure out. Why do people get hooked on slot machines? Basically so long story short. Is this question? By way of Talking to this person, who tells me to talk to this person, who tells me to talk to is one of those right. I end up at this casino on the edge of town in las vegas, but the catch is it's not in sort of open, like anyone can come into. This casino is a casino laboratory. So it's a the casino industry and a handful of other tech, big tech companies. They built a real life working breathing, fully functional casino.

But it is entirely for human behavior research, so they're, looking at how all these different things that happen and casinos get people to make decisions later on. By the way, everyone should be terrified of the fact that you said, and also big tat come if people do not understand the correlation between one. a big tech company would want to understand how casino operates. Man, your method, it, but please kittv, Michael, The world's fire, it's fine, we're all through me perfectly,

While I'm there, I meet a guy who design slot machines and if you want to understand why people get hooked on slot machines, you have to understand this three part behavior loop, that I call the scarcity loop and it's in my book. I just came out with called scarcity of rain, so it's got three parts. It's got opportunity, unpredictable rewards and quicker mutability opportunity, unpredictable rewards and repeatability. Ok, quick repeatability, quick replay, important cause you just talked about velocities will bring it back, so you have an opportunity to get something of value in the case of a slot machine. It's obviously money right, unpredictable rewards you know, you'll get the thing of value at some point. If you repeat the behavior, but you don't know when- and you don't know how valuable it's going to be- I'm already laughing, because I see this in an instagram scroll, I'm like ooh, there's going to be- doug video. I get path all this trash gotta. So now a slot machines like as those reels role you kid either Lou the dollar you bad! You could win two dollars.

you- can win two million dollars so there's this crazy, range of outcomes that could happen and then three quarter repeatability the real fall. You just again yeah? I can do it immediately again now. The reason that I see your point- it's not just casino companies who have built this casino is because you can put the system in a lot of other things and capture people's attention and drive behaviors with it. So my god, I'm am so sorry I interrupted you, but I just had to If any there I mean it sounds stupid right now. Does the algorithm the owl Were the must know exactly the video that I want to see? Based on my past behaviour, it knows what I will watch we watch like and enjoy. Is it not serving that up to me until I ve called for awhile? Is that happen?

so that I stay on that device longer because little to road and question, I think that so here's what I say is that people will criticise the hell out of gambling and slot machine gambling, but its heavily regulated industry. So Casino companies know like. If we just did this this and this we could increase our gaming revenue and time they use time on device which happens to be like the exact same language that big tech uses. We can increase our time on device, but the thing is a dissolve very heavily. You ain't by the government like each state has gaming boards and all this stuff with tat. Come these and all these other companies using the sloop, because that regulated random no one's going? Oh, you can't do that to increase, give time on device or whatever it might be. so random rewards those unpredictable rewards the capture of human behaviour, and

have your have all different creatures like pigeons rats. Basically every creature, we studied it in better than anything. So it's in social media, it's also being put into financial apps like robin hood. It's what explains a lot of the rise of sports betting, it's in dating apps and swipe swipe swipe I got a match. Is that that super handsome, seemingly wealthy man or is it that one I'm like eyes, canada, poor, but will see what happens right all these different place a trainer. There is really nothing better, at being sir serial killer of moderation, taking us out of moderation, hey parents, especially those of you who are raising big families like I am. This episode- is sponsored by the first ever toil grand highlander. This episode is all about creating spaces that make us feel the most comfortable and, if you

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Oh. It's like. We know. I hope that we know that social media is not good for us period like I used to and at first it was like. Oh, this is amazing, connect with people all over the world and, yes, you can go on. You can see it you puppy video and can find out what's happening in the world, but I don't. I don't see any world where it is good for you, in beings, it's and I'm even more terrified for my kids, who come up in a time period where they are so much more exposed to it than I ever was. I feel like I'm one of the last I'm forty and I feel like I'm at sort of the tail end of the generation. Who knows what life was like before the internet. Like I know the before and after when I came home from school, I went and got on my bike and like play with my friends. We didn't go on any sort of screen or device,

and it's such a quandary, because, on the one hand, I don't think it's good for human beings and on the other hand, I don't know how you do business and twenty twenty three m beyond. If you are not present in that space, the important thing. I hope that some one lesson had an aha. If you don't realize what was settled expression that's like, if you don't have to pay you something you are the product genuine product. So if you don't understand that you being there and you being on those devices for as long as possible is what the actual company is and that they will do everything to keep you there Then you can so easily be manipulated insert. feeling whatever emotion is necessary to keep you engaged with the device which is terrifying and has to play and scarce. to write like if I'm not on this, am I missing out, do not understand what happening in the world and like what? How does that play into life?

today with we think that going into these spaces as something that's actually good for us like, oh, I need to be connected, This is not human connection. This is something very different. So when you What people generally crave and all tends to be things that would have kept us alive in the past, so food staff, information connection, slash influence, slash status, so social media plays on our drive to influence other people Socially connected, but these are all things that made sense, kept us alive right say and the person who I am able to influence other people in our tribe, so humans probably evolved in groups of people. Were they didn't have more than one hundred fifty people? It was clear like where you were in the pecking order kind of right, but you also like new the people around you like you, can only do so much, but at the same time, if you

more status. It probably gave you a survival advantage, so you problem but out of menial, crappy labor right, you probably got more food, probably had all these other things, but today this drive, we have the sort of influence others connect with people also have a level of status. It gets put on this application that also quantifies it right. There is a hard metric behind it right. So when facebook started putting the number of likes that you have like it just took off like that teacher, took off this was years ago, and this is totally different than how we lived in the past right there. There was only so many people we could influence for one we didn't have like a hard metric of ok you have, you know a hundred and you have fifty friends so have hundred friend persons gone

haven't you yeah yeah, and so I don't think necessarily good. Now, some people, you know a lot of people, can put this in context and its fine. There are like area. This is not the real world, but not everyone can do that and to your point about kids, I think that when you look at how the human brain changes one were going through about puberty, too about is twenty four, I've, so a handful of things are happening that make social media maybe more dangerous than other times in our life. One is that we really really crave social connection. and it becomes way more important for us than at any other time in our life and like you, sort of rise and fall with how you feel your socially connected, and so, when you put that on an application- and you can see those hard metrics that tends to not be great for teenagers. I also feel like this is happening with my teenagers and it happens with adults too. Is there

is a real disconnect between what would happen for them on social media and what their actually feeling in their real life. So my Two oldest are teenagers, one is sixteen almost seventeen and one is fifteen, and they both have instagram with their private accounts, are only allowed to be connected with their friends and I'll, see them post something and it's a weekend with their friends and it's so grey and it gets, the legs and really q, but there is a disconnect between like the attention that oppose like that, get and the real life where he studying for attested he's pretty stress out about any feeling, anxiety and he's dealing with all of the elements of being it. It's like, I think that we miss this were like. Oh, if I, if I just if that just is good right. If the public likes me, if the public thinks

that thumbs up you're doing a good job, then I'm gonna feel something, but the feeling isn't connected to this sort of fake world that we create I am speaking as someone who I came up and built my business completely on social media. I started as a blogger and two thousand eight, so I have always been apart soon as facebook was a thing that was interests used by college student, I was on facebook and I had a page and I built a guy like done every adoration of social media, and so when it first started to happen, it was just like all my money. come cool. There's someone following my facebook page, who I don't know like carol from the mine. This is crazy. And then it became oh wow, I'm I'm popular because this thing this thing on the internet is getting attention and I went a sort of all the way to the top of lake.

you can explode on social. Your career can do all of these things, but in taking that journey and having a bill Long time I wasn't an overnight it was of. It was a many years. I think the gift in that for me was being able separate myself and realize, there's no substance attached to what is happening on this fake internet machine. I like to think that I'm trying to explain the internet too, like my great grandma, or you know an ancestor, I'm like well, it's it's a thing. That's made up. that we all get on a box and then eat, and it's sort of like if you can't. When it dear ancestor. Does it? Is it relevant, what's happening to you in this moment cause. I know I mean we're just seeing me. ass. If increases of anxiety, massive increases of depression, death of dust There is really common. Now, there's all of

things that if we look back it starts to eyes in two thousand eleven, which is when all of the social became a thing. How is scarcely mindset playing into the what were experiencing in terms of mental health in this country. I now probably glow who is well here, I am Then came to mind when you were talking and that's that I think what can happen when you quantify a behavior and that happens with social media, because it's like okay, this post got x amount of likes. This post got y amount of likes. This post got c Isn't it starts to shift your goals of why you're doing the thing you're doing all organise, yet that is a big mock, lets a pact that big cited so keep going. I'm all use twitter as an example- and I am now Michael its action

old habits die hard, so I talked to it in the in the book I go and I meet with a guy whose name is t when so it's spelled t h, I n g. U Y E, n and he's a philosopher of games. He talked about how, when he f It goes on twitter, it's like you know, you use it whatever you're putting whatever and then he he gets a viral tweet. So he writes this kind of funny quip and it just takes off and afterwards what happens his brain starts to go. What can I do? That would be a funny viral tweet. Because a philosopher his job is to think for a living, so he would normally be thinking. Ok, I have this thought. That's kind of interesting and relevant to this literally philosophy

it's the stuff I'm doing at a university and he would normally take that down the deep rabbit hole. You need to unpack all the layers between that because that's like a really complicated stuff right, but once he has that tweet go viral, he starts to notice. Instead of taking this thought into this like really deep layers as cave or I can get all it's really relevant information? My brain starts to go. I wonder how I could get that into two hundred and eighty characters and get some more retweets. Yes, and that's totally different thing. I mean let's just unpack twitter in the first place, the app bills itself, as it is like it's for discussion right. So then you ask okay. What are the goals of the discussion and the goals of the discussion are many could be to understand someone to be understood? to transmit information to empathize two bits together to commiserate. I mean like there's this all these things that can happen all these different outcomes and goals and blah blah blah. the problem. Is that one

we'll get onto twitter and you quantify this act of tweeting and you put likes followers. Retweet people start to change their behaviour to get likes followers and re tweets and the way that you tweet to do that is different than how you tweet a normal. Discussion. We're talking a normal discussion. So what is actually going to get likes and retweet is controversial stuff, it's dunking on people ass. Being like yo, I am actually more. You know I hate this term, but soon One come to mind like I am more woke than you on this idea right and this just pushes people farther apart and like the guy who I spoke to when he noticed that if you want a tweet to go viral, it kind of had to be a little bit dicking to

hmm, so it changes our behavior right anytime. You put a number on something and that's what tech tends to do, and so you also see this. You can apply the stanley thing so, for example, I'm a professor think about grades or why the hell. Do you go to college? It's like well, I want to learn all the staff. I want to get ready for careers. I want to make a bunch of friends. I want to learn how to like get my shit together, cause I'm going to have to turn in papers on time, but when we start to put things on this for porno scale, like all my students really care about, is like What what grade am I going to get because I need this number g p a right and I've personally found that the students who are the best, the ones that I would hire, that I would recommend they don't always get a's. The ones who get a's are very robotic they're like I need this number. Do you as a professor feel like? Are they aiming at the grades because that's become the educational version of a like or dress, so you get the grades to get the grade because it puts us very,

clear number. Oh my gosh wow, that's! So the reason that we get obsessed with numbers in the first place is its very clear that you ve done the right or wrong thing. Yes, oh my gosh, I, my oldest, is like I have said it a million I'm like. I don't know where he got this like I, I did not get straight. I mean he is. He is the kid that legit ive had to talk is wholly like a ninety three on a test and he would take it back and be like. Can I do a retake? I know I got a hundred and me and a minor bro. What are you doing? That's a big, that's a really important thing to understand, but you comply to a lot of different things So if you you get onto, let's say you get on the instagram and why do you get out first as the public. Oh I wanted to like keep up with my college friends. I want to do all that, like there's all these reasons right, but once you start to get the likes, you started the the application literally trains

to behave in such a way. That gets you the points. Yes, because that's clear, that's it's, like all. I've done the right thing Read all these other things are very ambiguous. It's kind of murky. It's like how do you know all these things well, but if you give a slot, number on something? It's like While that number is bigger than that, once I've clearly done the right thing here. We miss a lot of the complexities and the new those and those are the things I think ultimately give people more meaning. I think what's interesting about this too. We have so many listeners of the show who are entrepreneurs they have their business they're working towards. You know I have a podcast or write books or whatever, and given that both you and I have books and speak and do those things. It's interesting to bring it back to what is what is the point? What is

intention of doing this work, because this is something that has just gone wildly out of control in the last five years. In my opinion, my professional opinion is that their so much information on social media, about how to use social media for your business and it's just more distraction and it s more busy work and its more people going like. Oh well, my ticks. blew up or that we all got more likes than this robot but the whole go. All was that you wanted to get a book deal or the whole goal was that you want to more people to listen to your pockets or the whole goal was that you wanted to make more as a speaker or sell your price to get more people to come into your bakery, but we still on a path with the intention of like helping our business or growing our brand, and then we get obsessed with what will be the

most viral since, oh that that got more than theirs. Ok I'll make more stuff like that, but the amount of peace Well, who do not pause to ask? Did it bring more customers into your bridle shop like? Did it actually do the thing that you wanted it to do because there is a crazy perception I now that the more likes you get, the more views you get on a real, the more reach that, social has, the better your business is, and that is it's not true it so funny. I love things have round like this pine cast over here is like quietly crushing business, getting all the ads doing all the things, but this person over here is like they have a bigger social feed, so the public might admire that social feed, but is important step back and be like what is the goal? If your goal? to be the cutest non instagram and have you can do that

but I dont know that it's actually gonna get you closer to the person you wanna be or the final since you want to have the life that you want to live, an understanding that that machine is created, To sort of confuse you along that path to make you feel like you doing something we do not really doing anything yeah totally. I think I think this happens everyone, but to your point it is. Why am I doing this in the first place? How my really at the same time like I know that there are various goals of business. On one hand, you need to make enough money to figure out how much we need. make for whenever I saw you on live, but also probably want to positively impact people. That's hearted measure now there's all these other things you want to do too, but I feel like the when you and put a number on something, whether it's you know a salary or whether it's an amount of folly, where's. It makes you feel it gives you the illusion that you're doing the right thing and despair

because a lot of times those things are socially validated. Finally validated because their easy to compare the salaries, a good one so that we can often get captured by? Why do you want to make money in the first place? You will probably be happy while a certain point trying to get that number to go up more is probably going to decrease your happiness, therefore, its doing the opposite of what you wanted to do. So it's almost like life is not a very clear thing, there's all these different things of competing all the time and it seems like a giant sound board or when you, move one nabob can distort sound a little bit so then you're gonna have to, hunter with this one, but then this one's going to go down, and it's constantly just messing with the dials and they're never going to be perfect, because if it's like a live concert, it's like, while we're playing another song like five minutes, dude and those levels are gonna work perfect for that one so kind of trying to be aware also being okay with like things are, can be.

vigorous some time, and I have to learn to be ok with that and so yeah. I look at it in the book as like, really unpacking. Why do we get fixed on numbers in the first place? And then what can we do to sort of begin to get out of that cycle a little bit? And what can we do to begin to get out of it? Well, I think that with these behaviors that fall into the scarcity loop and there's a there's a lot of them that I mentioned, I think just becoming aware of that's why we fixate in the first place- and I mentioned that it happens in all sorts of different animal so unpredictability grabs the attention of all animals and they will get hooked on it pigeons rats whatever, and then you can either move or change any of the three parts of what that loop is, so you can shift, ok,

to your point of. Why am I doing this? In the first place? That's the opportunity right so asking what is my ultimate goal here, because we do tend to get captured by those easily measurable things you can slow down the repetition, so good examples from the book. You start to see obesity rise when snack food gets introduced and snack food tends to be really quick to eat, so it's ultra processed people will eat more of it fast. Stir so eating foods that are even just less process. Have one ingredient just slows down. The act of eating and people tend to lose weight, and this is demonstrated in studies by the nih yeah. There's all these different ways you can do, I'm curious, No this for my own work and a lot of my friends who are writers.

We tend to write about the thing that maybe we're struggling my found some level is that what got you into writing these books? Who was there like anything, your own life tat? You are dealing with that? You are like. I need to understand why I'm making these choices? Oh yeah yeah, it's totally just like that, I'm trying to figure out my own should hear gas, so the first book I started thinking about that is so I got sober like nine years ago coup. and a very much was you know I was taking the sort of short the short term reward at the expense of long term growth. That's me is really what kind of addiction and that was something I'd. You know I'd tried to quit drinking tons and tons of times, and I think it just finally dawned on me like. Oh, this has actually been really hard, but it's going to save your life. It's going to add years to your life in the long run and getting sober was not easy at all. It's very uncomfortable in the short term. But by going through that my life improved across

board like full, stop right and when I got sober, I was working at men's health magazine. So I came up in my background is magazines and journalism, and I noticed that literally everything that we would cover in that magazine, you had to go through short term discomfort to get the benefit exercise. Best thing you can do, for health exercise isn't fun, though yeah, but then on the other side of that, you feel better in your health and bruce same with. If you want to lose weight, probably going to have to be hungry at some point, but your health improves same with mental health right. It's you're going to have hard conversations you're going to have to ask yourself some hard questions, you're going to have to change some behaviors, but you improve, and so that ultimately led me to write the comfort crisis, because once I'd made that observation that short term discomfort often leads to long term gains and people's lives, then just true reporting a variety of stories. I realized a well like humans have made the world a lot.

Comfortable than the world's that we evolved in, and we did this very fast. And I wonder how I just wondered: how that changed us that lead to starting to the book and then once I got them without book arrogance For a while, I noticed that I was starting to fix aid ensemble number things like ok, I used to be a total mess of a human being. Chaotic life was in ruins and then once I get so it's like. I don't over correct, like everything's gotta be dude, you gotta stay in this lane, everything's gotta be perfect. You gotta have outward appearances, have to be great, gotta, make a certain amount of money and that started driving me crazy. It's like playing whack, a mole. I it's I interviewed arthur, brooks I think last month and there's some statistic which I'm going to butcher right now He talks about it, something like for anybody who goes on a diet at these numbers. Going to be wrongs who come back and listen.

It has actual quote, but it was something like for everyone who goes on a diet. Fifty percent of people will actually be able to achieve the weight loss goal that they've set for themselves and of the fifty per cent of people who will achieve that goal. Twenty five percent of those people will develop some kind of eating disorder because they get to the goal and it felt so good to get the goal that they keep going, the like will. What else can I do? How much else can I lose? How how I weren't you the ways that I can improve. How can I make my life better, so I resonate with that one so much because I think as a high achiever, if you like figure something out or it feels so good to figure something out like when I got into personal development, In years ago I didn't know was called that wasn't wasn't looking. I was just having extreme debilitating anxiety and I was like I don't want to leave this way and maybe there

Some solutions or some ideas for high, cannot live this way and when that when there were and they worked up like what else, can I do what else? What else and I have to remind myself to I- can get similar we sort of obsessed with well like well, maybe I should have a perfect, but me yeah. I should get six pack abs. Maybe I should I have got to interview arnold schwarzenegger and the first new book, and he was talking about this thing which was like. I cannot explain what a huge this is so eye opening for me and it's so simple and so stupid and it's like exit so you're saying he's like. I cannot understand people who got the jim and don't know why there there they go to the gym. Could they want take a box so into to the jam healthy, but they get there he's a guy,

and they said to wander around the do a little bit here? There's no there's no plan! There's no intentional lady, like why are you at the jim, and that was it's a stupid, but that was such a big thing for me of, like oh I'm at the jam, because I want to be healthy. I wanna have energy will take care of my body, I wanna be ensured. those are the things that are important to me, but when I go to the gym Michael sometimes I look over and I see these women and their bodies are insane and they're like six pack cut like they got that booty It's like you have worked on your, but they ve done this. eggs and my brain goes all come. I you could do that. You should have put some effort, it might get get her back and that is such a huge. that's not why I'm here I have no desire. That is not my goal. That's not what I am aiming for? That's good for her, not for me, but if you don't understand you have to know why you're in a place where

Why am I here? Why am I doing this? If you dont have intention the world will give your intention and often it's gonna, take you way off the person that you actually want to be I think we We live in a world where the other so many things we should be doing and specific. Plans that are available to us to try and achieve those and weed often stop and ask your. Why am I doing this in the first place and I think that we often times just accept in full should that comes in and just sort of role that Liberia like want us. Everyone else is doing. I should to one of the things I talk about and scarcity brain is that We live in a world now, where the average person in one day seems more information on the average person seven hundred years ago would have seen in their entire life. That's that's butter, entire life. It's bound

curse and that's totally changed us. So we are a species who craves information because in the past, information would have given us a survival advantage. If you know where the food is going to be, if you know, the storm is rolling in. If you know that that really mean tiger usually hangs out over there. That gives you a survival advantage, but today that I think is applied to air. Is where this information maybe doesn't enhance our life all the time. Right now, it's like I'll. Take me as an example anytime. I have a half baked idea or thought pop in them. had psych, I'm gonna, google, it by doing this, want to spend my time this way, no, my wife- and I we have like we now leave- are cell phones in the car. when we go out to dinner and every time we get out, my wife will always joke like what happens. If we want to know how old

jack Nicholson exactly you know it's true, it's so true. The fact that you can I do this with my boyfriend. All the time will be like who was that actor in that thing, and rather than sit there or it'll, be like a game like no it's not our phone, let's figure it out. We really do. We have that info available at any moment, told I think, we have more knowledge than ever? I dont know so we know if we have as much understanding, so we can't necessarily put all the pieces together, and I do think that sometimes this kind of quick information ecosystem we live. and doesn't necessarily lead us to the right answers so something I sat round the book, and this is like a kind of rule. I've had my journalism creator so when I was a twenty one, I was in as internet esquire magazine and we would just have to look up random facts and just do reporting and stuff like that. So I get I have to find out how much money the pope makes

this is my assignment, so I go online. I google around even call like this catholic historian or something- and I submit, research file. To my editor, I get an email back. It was made me in the conference room in five minutes. I'm like okay, so I go in there and he's very esquire. Dude he's got like the tie is loosened button down. It's end of the day were at the hearst building and and then he just like lean back and I sat down, and he goes no, no, no, no! You want to know how much money the pope makes you call the fucking vatican call the fucking vatican, so we often miss yet at the way to get good. Information today often requires going to the source, picking up the phone like that is the most,

the best way to figure out that yeah the answer to that question yeah, but our brain goes all google it and I'll go like seven different sites. I've read from two thousand and seventeen yeah, so obviously every single question you have, you can't run it through that algorithm or go crazy, but like for the important questions in life like yeah, maybe run it through that algorithm like go directly to the source. If you want to know if someone thinks the ascom well, we also fall into this trap of their so many ideas. Now, if you go on social media, fuel and tiktok or instagram or acts or of them there. So many ideas, here's how I did this! Here's how I do this here's ten ways to get this, which is awesome, and of that stuff. When I'm looking for a solution, but the peace that are missing in that. Is someone who's that a completely different place in life than us, someone who might be at a different

socio economic play, someone who's in a different part of the world. There are so many factors that go into why that worked for that one person that will take the dear, and apply like one or apply it to our life. I love ways for improvement. I think that you and I have this income. unlike my whole life, and then my career just became that, like I'm tryin, something well I've better and then I'm just sharing it with you guys. It's here try this idea, but what I've learned as I've gotten older and I've had more success in my career and I have evolved to a higher places. A human is, I keep seeing ideas and I'm a glue. that feels fun. I want to try that, because I love anything that can make it better and I will try it and I'm not seeing it's not working for me. I'm not really seen the results and its taking me

a while to understand this gonna sound. However, the sounds that at some point, like your you get to a level where you're not going see the drastic improvement because you already have improved so much so it's like when you get to a certain level of like ok at this place in my health now so the ten simple tricks to make healthier, aren't gonna move the needle as much for someone who already is pretty far in that direction. Verses you're, just starting out drinking water is the symbol is gonna make it

it's better going on a walk in the evening? After dinner is going to make your life better but learning to like add in the extra layer, the context of your own life and the contexts of the person who's, giving you advice is a piece that we're just missing because it's so exciting to see the info. This is the dumbest example that is hilarious. I'm gonna tell you you're dude, I don't even give it to anyway. There's this fabulous woman on instagram, who puts together amazing outfits, she's, always wearing shoulder pads Michael and she swears by. The shoulder pads are, and I'm like whoa. I didn't know that at forty I need to get back into I. You know it's the eighties again. Apparently, shoulder pads are back, but she looks so gorgeous. I was like that's it, that's what I miss the jack. I'm missing patterns about so I order, like four shirts, will shoulder pads you guys it shows up. I look insane. I look

like a little girl in my mom's outfit whatever, and then I realized this chick is like six feet tall and a double zero, unlike she needs shoulder paths because without them, she's wasting away at a die like rachel, you're, smarter than this like give context to who the information came from and what your actual life is before you decide to try this beginner expert advice. So, are you saying that people are different? I say that I should wear shoulder path and people are different, though, and this is what this implies- that everything so is something this fund is like, even in studies

so we like often has people read study, unlike that's the gospel, but when you start to pull back the layers of what actually happened in the study you find, there are a lot of outliers and studies and people like not everything were taken, averages right. So there's this really famous study where they put people on a low fat diet. Another group on a low carb diet, for example, may want to see you know which one is better for weight loss now, at the end, they found they're the same on average, that's important part, so everyone goes ok, they are the exact same. Blah blah blah. But when you actually peel back the data, you found that some people lost like twenty pounds on one or the other. Some people gained like twenty pounds on one or the other, and so what this suggests to me is that sure most people, most of the time it's not going to matter, but not all people, all the time now extrapolate that to every decision you make across your life, and it basically suggests that

You need to try things for yourself too, because that is ultimately how you learn is through experience. Yes, and so you know, you get a piece of information that might come from some studying like no. This is the thing because science, it's like well, you can still try stuff and see whether it works for you, because you might find that yeah. Like my experience, jibes with the science great but you might find it doesn't right and so, like I dunno people get so married to study findings that it's like just figure out what works like find reasonable things and if they work for you great yeah, it's like a reminds me of that really famous steady. I can't remember if it's like the seventies or the eighties, where they did research on hormone replacement therapy in women and the results were so horrendous and like for years and years and decades was like hormone replacement. Therapy is terrible and nobody should do it and that had these awful results and then, when you until the layers you find out that they tested all the women they tested were fifty plus, so they weren't action.

We there were women who are mostly post men, a pause you weren't getting accurate reading of hormone therapy in by. balancing it just all of these things, but for decades there were opinions base, or there was the expert advice on this really specific thing that could have helped a lot of women and it was tested on the wrong wrong subjects or how many years in medicine were things tested exclusive on men, so you never really understood how they affected women's bodies, the idea of trying and x. aramis sing in your own life. It goes

is what we originally saying is that it actually is a better solution for you, but it takes longer you're not going to feel good as fast, and I think it's probably easy for us cause. You strike me as someone similar to myself where I'm like. Oh, that's interesting. I'm going to test it for a month and see I found like you know: oh broccoli, sprouts, okay, I'm a throw that in my smoothie for a month and see if I feel a difference. Okay, this thing it: let's try, o l e d, red light therapy Let's go like I like the experimentation, which also is something that I am able to experience because of privilege, because I've been in a certain area, because I can you know, testing You things that not everybody has the ability to do, but it really is the long term when it's the long term solution

to try little things out in your life and see if you feel an improvement because of those choices, yeah totally both of my books, they don't have soup, I mean it's all kind of like this conversation we're having now we're like here are some here's, like some general common sense guidelines. Here are these things that are affecting your life in ways that seem to work for most people most of the time, but it's never broken down into like you must it ex food. Why times a day, because that might work for like five percent of people, but then you have ninety five percent of people who doesn't work for and so knowing it's sort of like learn to fish rather than just get the fish caught for you, I'm kind of pivoting now, but something else that I've been thinking about cause we were talking about information is so, and I'm reporting this book, I'm thinking about information and how we have so much of it today and how it often changes

variants of wife and living it more or less. I end up getting this email from NASA k, so it's this happens to me all the time. All the money that you mentioned So is this random person from nasa and they're like hey the this astronaut named mark vandehei? He wants to talk to use and the iss, and I'm like this feels like the new nigerian prince hundred percent. It's a phishing scheme that, like just give us ten thousand dollars and we'll give you twenty. So I'm going, I'm like looking at him like, we will give it a try because it's a dot gov address. So I'm like okay, we'll see blah blah blah so long story short nasa has this program If an astronaut just wants to talk to someone, anyone know just reach just you now and so who doesn't want to talk to an astronaut there like? Would you like to talk to your mommy yard so they set up this video conferencing. You gotta use this like super special government encrypted zoom right right. Cause he's on space station is on my word as on

no kind of taking a long time, but video rain comes in and the dude is floating in outer space I mean on the I ashes, hovering you know hey cycle shit, but in talking to him what struck me is that his whole reason for being an outer space is to find information, information that can teach us how to survive. Should we ever need to as a species leave this planet literally crazy, yeah. Now the differences that for him, we get that information. He has to physically go there. It is a mind body effort, he's put in physical work to go to this place, to get information and that's how it was for people for all of time, so humans are really interested in the fact that no creature explores like we do so. In fifty thousand years we literally took over the world like leave africa. We go up and

these frozen places we'd come into the america is like an probably on boats. We take over the entire globe and fifty thousand years not to mention we'd, climb up everest. We go into outer space. We go down to the deepest reaches of the ocean, so we have this exploratory drive to get information that improves our life right, we're always looking for the greener grass in the past, like I said you had to physically go there, you had to put in physical work, you had to put in mental effort. There was a lot of like: what's can be there, we're going to see right. It's like this kind of gamble. But today that gets transferred in a way that I think, is an always productive, because now, when we have that sort of each to know what lies in the beyond it just comes through our phone, and I think it shapes our experiences to so think about the last time you went to a new restaurant. Did you just like random. Walk him. Never, never, never tell me. I am looking all the food pictures,

studying instagram. You knew what you were going to order her say you were hoping for a specific table, you all these different things right, and so that changes your experience of that because you didn't go in cold and I have expectations. You have expectations right. So a lot of the book looks at how one chapter of the book know a lot of it looks at how that's changed our experience of life and living it, because it is different right. It used to be that if you went into a place you wouldn't know what was going on there thing inherently rewarding for that you're getting information in the present tense. You haven't analyze, make judgments for yourself that aren't mediated by Sally whatever ninety nine on yelp, you dont know which table you want is just like this for one like you have to be in it and you don't know, what's going to happen, it's like a slot machine.

You're a girl, I'm having a lot of like opinions with you today, because I'm I'm thinking of this in terms of I'm gonna go back to the community, which we did this summer. It was unexpectedly so incredible like it was the most amazing. I was shocked at how much I loved it like the vacation was meant to be a weak on the camino and then are we in a beef at a ridiculous, boogie spot resort. The camino in the dirt was one thousand times better, more fun more fulfilling for me in every way, then, the booty spa in a which was shocking cause I'm a busy

which and I'm realizing, that's it very. Interestingly, I did so much research. I tried to find blogs. I tried to find youtube videos, there's not a ton of content of the camino there's like people posting on instagram, like a shot of a dirt road. That kind of you know and there's books, and I had read them all, but there's not it's not like. If I want to go to a restaurant here in l a I can, I didn't know what I was expecting, and so it was so much prettier than I thought it was going to be. It was the people were so much nicer. There were hardships that I wasn't into spit like all of it. I was so, at present. I was not on my phone one time during my hike, not once I thought I would need music. I know I was so present in that moment and am realizing. That is why cause I had to be I didn't know where I was on my car we about to be set on by you know: either someone

jump us on these cobblestone streets like I dunno, and that that I'm so glad you said that cause. I had I'm going back this year to finish it and I'm like I don't want to research anything. Let's just go and see what we see and how many other things in life. Could we approach in the very same way, because it will force us to be present in this moment that so good women's lives for thousands and alright thousands of you? Isn't it funny, or do you ever think? It's funny that we have come so far in this direction that we now have to create scenarios where we're going back. You know, like oh I've worked there's some funny some comedian who talks about camping, that you worked so hard to get to a place that you have enough money to go. Pretend that you no longer have a home as jack who, like would live in the dirt camping if he could,

What do you feel like is the number one thing that a scarcity mindset is pushing on to us right now, all whatever we can do and there's shopping. So when you look at what sort of humans crave, it's food, it's staff, it's information, it's status and influence. I mean we haven't talked about stuff stuff, is a good one. I saw a few in the past. If you had more tools, I would probably every survival vantage, so we have a craving for things even like fifteen year go. If you wanted to go, buy something you haven't you had. A pause walked down to the store drive to the store, but now anytime, you like them on board, or I might want this thing. Tell me solve. Acts perceive problem that, by the way is now show real problem. You can go on amazon and there's something for it and.

The average home today has between ten thousand and forty thousand items in it I mean that's insane even a hundred fifty years ago, people can really only much like the average woman in the eighteen. Hundreds had three outfits the richest person, Thomas jefferson, wife, seventeen outfits total entirely right and now the average person has more than a hundred outfits and you probably, where all those either yeah I mean, I think most people can say I pretty much where the same handful of of things and things just collecting collect and collect, and one thing that happens, though, is that once we realize we got all this stuff, then we go okay, like I'm, going to do I'm purging when a minimize everything, but we often haven't solved the underlying reason of why we keep buying all the shit first place,

yeah, and so then it's just going to say, yeah, it's like rewinding a video tape and then hit play again yeah, and I think the underlying reasons are especially there's. Basically, like four reasons why people buy things. One is because they help us achieve something. So this is like a tool says like gear right, I'm using this to do this greater thing. That is a huge thing for a lot of people who are trying to go on a health journey or fitness journey is they will go by all the gear and by the gear will make them feel like they did the thing, and that will be I know be enough for like an I'm super guilty is probably every human on the planet is where you like put on. Work out outfit and then you're like lime and get to the giant. I'm gonna go, gonna run later today and you'll go to your you're. Your or errands, and he'll drop the kids to school, and it's like oh look at her and her little fit. She must have gotten to the gym and gotten it, although it was like no I'm just wearing the lululemon, it makes you feel good total

There is also because it gets us status so, for example, Let's watch yeah, no one buys a rolex no time it is her. So certain Adams can separate us from other people in a way that sort of elevates us above them and then the third reason is for belonging. So this would be buying things because it makes you part of it in korea. People like us, do things like this yeah. I got my harley davidson. ray and leather jacket, none the motorcycle yeah yeah, it's like. Why does everyone on the grateful that concert in fish concert where patagonia and why metallica there, where in harley davidson stuff right like that? Yes, you understand what I'm talking about and then the fourth reason I think is boredom ass. I think that people get bored and they go.

How much I do they're on their phone or on instagram, and then the algorithm just puts that perfectly. That perfect item that you know is going to capture their attention in front of vomiting. Hang out abide, it's easy to buy yeah, so part of the framing that I look at in the book to sort of get out of this is taking a taking the lens of gear rather than stuff. It's really asking. What is this item going to help me? Do that is going to enhance my life in another way right? So it's like it's sort of cutting out all the access reasons. I like to also think as if I'm going to get something feminine acquire some. I knew maybe a new piece of clothing, or I love kitchen tools and gadgets for cooking that I need to give something up, because otherwise it'll just get so overwhelmed me off so much stuff that I'm not really appreciating anything that actually have already

But if I will go, okay, like I have a really bad problem by, I don't need one more sweatshirt. I don't need one more vintage concert d, I'm going to get some, but I don't need them, and so I'm like okay, well, if you're going to get one, you gotta give you gotta, give this one to a friend or donate this or whatever, because otherwise you're going to have this closet or this house or all the just filled with crap, and you don't even really know what the good stuff is or the things that you love are because it's all mixed in with a bunch of stuff that it just its overwhelming- and I think, your speaking in terms of science, but I also think in terms of like energy and vibration and like stuff there is an energy to stuff and there's a I don't of guys feel like this, but I know a lot of women who will get shame around the things that they have bought its internal or external, or both

internal. Well, I guess externals criminal could come from other people, but I'm it's more like friends, my or me like you yourself, where you are feeling good, like you're with your friend whenever and you saw leather jacket, you're like home, ever worn a leather jacket before, but I think I could be a leather jacket, kind of person and use splurge any by the thing. then you get home in your like. This doesn't look good on me, but no one I keep it because I want to be this kind of person. It just sits in your closet, sits there and closet, and The time you see it You are reminded that you spent this huge amount of money. you're like no, I'm gonna use that I'm saving that for a nice and it'll sit there for years and the energetic thing that that jacket does to every time you see the thing you don't like You don't want it. You didn't take back and you dont want away setting. You feel ashamed that you ve made this sort of like shopping mistake that I don't know like. Maybe four do that's like equipment or some

thing where you're like I shouldn't have spent that amount of money and I'm gonna try to prove to myself that I can do it versus if you just go. Oh my god. Oh we're just get rid of it. The inner jed. Vibe, that directives to your life costs justice, if not more, as whatever amount of money you spent trying to get it in german, I think that annoys you every time you say. I think that that's definitely true for guys. I think I think culturally. Unfortunately, women get positioned more as like the shoppers. When I don't think, that's necessarily true. I think that men women buy at equal rates. I mean I can think you brought up concert tos, which is funny, so I'm a big grateful dead fan, yeah and my wife had to cut me off when it came to grateful dead, t shirt, like please stop! She's like you, you got a loving grateful that teacher tat, your guy. We don't need an and we don't need the sweat sure. Yes, we don't need the poster from the Torah yeah. Ninety ninety four right, commanded yeah.

yeah. I get it cause you're like oh, but this is the time that we went to the thing and I want to remember cause you're buying at the actual concert. Are you buying the warheads yeah, I'm buying it all yeah, I get it, but I think shopping. So a lot of these things that we're talking about they do fall into that scarcity. Loop and businesses do leverage that right. So it's the opportunity to get something that you think is going to enhance your life right. It's this concert, t shirt or

this leather jacket. When I get that leather jacket, I'm going to put that on lung and become a new person yep, a better person can be awesome right and then unpredictable rewards like what's going to happen. I have this thing: right can change and then quick repeatability, it's like oh I'll, go buy the next things didn't work out. Even the act of shopping is like the search was unpredictable reward game search. Then you find the right one. It's like bam. You got it. I got the one there's even advertisers that put casino features into their ads and it increases conversion rates by sevenfold, stuff volet, like a spinning wheel for a bargain, so you're gone to a sinus like spin. The wheel get to do

and you feel like. Oh my god, like I got, I got the spine that I was otherwise wouldn't have yeah it's crazy. I gotta buy the big one, I'm I'm again, I'm gonna go to woman, but maybe they do this to men too, that I see on a lot of websites for shopping, is there's only a few left or this sold out last season or those websites that have like, Someone in ohio just bought this summer. Florida just bought this and I'm a cop. Nobody is buying at that clip this random thing, I'm looking at right now, but it does for women. I think this and we're constantly comparing ourselves to other people and we want to like be like.

we're all. Oh ok, everyone else is doing it. I've gotta do this thing to what is it doing to our mental health? This cause it's got. The scarcely mindset has gotten to have got worse over the last decade. What are you seeing in studies how this is affecting us beyond, just like making more resources? shopping too much like what are the results of this year? I think there's a lot of different results. I thank them. Have an abundance of all these things that were built to crave and their dead to appoint. They help us survive and live. to a point, but eventually they start to overwhelm us. So I guess I think, a lot of the I'll give you an example, and it goes back to a study animals. So when I was unpacking this scarcity loop, I asked

while machine designer mike okay yeah this this thing works at getting people's attention and like hooking us on these repeat behaviors. That can hurt us in the long run, but why? Why is at work in the first place and he's just like I dunno dude, like my jobs, to make it work the casino you know. So I end up calling this guy who's name is thomas and tall and he's this old school psychologist he's in his eighties now he's at the university of Kentucky he's been studying, behavioral psychology, since the sixties, like he came up through bf skinner, was like the the the o g behavioral psychologist, and this guy does studies where he can get a pigeon to turn into basically a degenerate, gambler very quickly, so he'll take these pigeons from you know their cage that they live in

and he'll give them two games the first game as a predictable game where they get food. The second game is more like a slot machine where they hit this button and they don't know if they're going to get food, they don't know if they're going to get food and they'll sit and they'll play this slot machine game, even though it nets them less food than the predictable game and they'll just play this over and over and over and they'll get hooked on it. Ninety seven percent of pigeons choose the gambling game. What he ends up. Doing, though, is he at one point they put pigeons? They take them out of their sorta smaller cages that they live in kind of sterile kind of a boring life. They put them in this really big cage that is designed to mimic the wildlife that a pigeon would live. So the pigeon has to you know, build it's nasa built ruse. It goes up on ledges and interacts with other pigeons. It does all these things that a pigeon out in the the wild would do, and then he puts them back in the game and they all start choosing the game to get some more food, the smarter game, the predictable rewards-

they don't gamble. So then the guy tells me he goes and we think about humans today and these strange behaviors we get hooked on. I don't think we're that different from my pigeons. When we don't have enough stimulation and our life we go looking for it and other places. We start to gamble. We spend too much time on social media. We do drugs to excess. We by too much shit. We go down, crazy, internet conspiracy rabbit holes. We do all these things to find stimulation. So there's this theory called the optimal stimulation theory and basically says that all species need a certain amount of of hardship, stimulation in their life in order to thrive now Think about how humans of all that's like we had to be working all the time we didn't know what was gonna come next was a harsh lifestyle, but it was also very stimulating right. Without doing all these things that we have all to do in nature. Finding food doing all these,

and now we live in a world that is very different, that a lot more like the smaller kind of cooped up wives that the pigeons lived at first so that sounds kind of overarching theory. That's so good! I want to talk to you about all of this forever, but I also am conscious that you have other pie, today. But before you go, I want to ask you what two percent darlin I know for the email today you when are websites I know, but I haven't gotten the email. Yet that tells me what you mean by two percent, so two percent of it comes from a study that found that only two percent of people take the stairs when there's also an escalator avail, Now one hundred percent of those people knew that taking the stairs would give them a longer term benefit. Yet ninety eight percent of people take the escalator. So to me, this says that humans are wired to do the next easiest most comfortable thing. Even when we know it's not good. For us, the news letter really looks at how

it takes the literal and metaphorical stairs and how doing that can enhance your life. So it kind of looks at that through a lot of different lenses, and we cover everything from like exercise to nutrition, to mental health. All the stuff we've been talking about cool, so if anyone else wants to sign up like I did, they can go to your website there. Where are all the places they can find you they can find the book like give us all the details about how to how to go deeper, deeper with Michael hyster, easter, michael dot. Com is my website, even though we've just spent you know at least twenty minutes talking about the or that as social media try to keep a positive there michael underscore easter and yeah

all in the box, or call it the scarcity brand yeah. My editors grown used to it yeah you cant, get it scarcity rain and the confer crisis thanks so much for hanging out man yeah. Thank you enjoyed it. The Rachel Hollis podcast is produced by me, Rachel Hollis, it's edited by andrew weller and jack. Noble, I just gave no gas have equality who get the council's because must get it lead that I mean the knocker, but it's just thus putting contacts and all who get the family than walmart. Seeing start dental goma levels be champions one of our little give us hope below. Do they carried us than coal or switch males users and a horse and eagles a wholly get along look I'll know me, listen, Doug bent is good, but it does represent. These does them and the name was it not so that the normal although, but unless we as does the nemesis, legal but effective, but, alas, to adjust