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Well, don't come slash now to learn more level of global here we're back within conversation from our revisionist history, live series on mastery. This took place. any second street. Why? In new york as many of you know, I'm a pretty. face runner and light most competitive runners, I was most running crazy. When I was a kid started to thirteen. ran through high school and a little in college It was the single most fun thing I did growing up. Sports were a refuge from the craziness about adolescence, under the things it has become clear in recent years, is a youth sport. are no longer the oasis. They used to be that some very troubling- is happening, air pressure, abusive coaches over involve parents and its work for girls, eating too borders distorted by the images, so I asked to pay

to come and talk about all this with me and figure out. Some answers. Learn russian and Linda flanagan, both athletes, coaches and parents, who thought a lot about this problem, by the way who happened to have the same initials so just to be clear. This is linda That's strangely, when many parents don't step in they raise hell when you know that child is putting right field but there are slight a lot of nastiness and a terrible team culture. There, quiet, Linda vermin, author of take back game. How money and mania are ruining kid sports and why it matters- and here is lauren true, you like my sport. Experience always felt like it was mine, learn flush. workers, runner author of good, for a girl, a woman running in a man's world.

Linda and Lauren gave me exactly what I wanted. I won't say we fixed kid sport, but I do see a future with believing it ticklish for those of you who don't know laura was one of the great distance runners. Of her generation. She is an entrepreneur and now she's she's, a writer now she's written this wonderful book, Linda also accomplishment It has in a number of things interesting things in the course of your career, but of heavens, to saving you coach for many years, the high school them. And it's really, those experiences that you came to write you will take that game and I I am interested in the two of you for reasons, but I am also not nearly as accomplished is either of you. I'm in fact, I thought

I thought that we could all go for a run this afternoon, and I asked so I asked first so I said: let's go for runs, and so then says: well, I'm not running with Laurent she's world class. So you flake and then I said alright I'll go running with born and then Lauren says no out and I'm not going right. I'm gonna go for a run early in the day and I think what happened if I'm wrong or you looked at my strava, he said he's so slow. Why would I waste a good running day, so I ran alone, so I said he should have gone in the morning with me. So I'll get over that don't I So both of you have written books about the christ it's in your sports. We said girls, sports and, I think probably wishes you can have talk, probably more about girls and boys in this disconnecting both of you would agree that problems, are more acute with girls and

to set things up wanted to. Let me I mean it described the manner in which this conversation is going to take place as willing pay little game the marsh again I game is imagine, is a martian who doesn't know anything about american american culture sports nothing just a martian in one of those balloons loaded and he's been given. Is your two books richard books, and he reaches a series of can no context. He is no inhibitions. He's not about asking So I am the martian and I'm going to ask a series of questions are constrained by by Any kind of either ideological positions of mine. Previous experiences, I'm just drawing got my team extreme conclusions from both of your book. and I want you to respond to these conclusions.

The martians first statement is the martian says: ha Should we ban from ever coaching women. Again, it might not be a bad idea. Tell me why There are too many men, coaching women. For one thing, women need women and girls need female role models in leadership positions? Everyone thinks of sports as That's where you learn how to be a leader, and yet you know very few girls are actually coached by women and even the collegiate level it's about forty two percent. a school level, it's in the twenties and you sports is twenty five percent, so let's get more women in their so that young girls,

and teenagers concede that women can be leaders to war. You have thoughts on the matter this ban Why I like these points, I agree and running only seventeen percent of the coaches and running her women, which I was really surprised, even lower than the average. I would say: let's, let's not banned them until we ve, given them, a chance to fill the gap? gap of knowledge that we are living with when it comes to female bodies and and how they, develop and how they operate. Let's, let's let them let's give him a chance to learn. Let's see how many of them want to and the ones that want to and are willing to and will do the work, let's let them stay, Let's do all the stuff that Poland is talking about our enlightened. I was struck in reading a book lord by

Big chunk of your book is, it is a very powerful and cycle, explanation of the difference in the physiological trajectory is of young women, young man and you make this. You would talk to your time at Stanford. It the young men are a ban. But what I, whenever they are between of college It is had their physical peak. They get better automatically every year, their full of all that every positive hormone. Man, where's? The women are going to a much more complicated process and the reason the marchioness. That question is the martian says a ban fully understand what a young woman is going through if he's never gone to himself, well, I would say to the martian. We can't apply

at logic to the problems of the world, or else the problems would only be able to be solved by people. We ve had an identical experience and the problems are big enough, that we need everyone involved. And I don't think there is anything that must steer it's about the female body that but he couldn't learn if they wanted to it's just. We would leave yeah. we ve been added for. Years and years and years now and just reading that your book in that little yeah section- it's not incur. You know this we have an overwhelming A largely male group of coaches, We still have we ever persistence in these kinds of problems, and I'm wondering whether, as the first step in solving the problem is to rip is too, is to replace with people who maybe have a better chance of understanding, yeah

I'm in coaches. You have a high likelihood that they ve gone through. something similar But you also have plenty of female coaches prepared tweeting the same harm that their mail coaches passed down to them and repeat the culture and so there's there's the knowledge is needed by female Stu. I get a lot of messages of people over the book, women and men, or like while I didn't know, I need the stuff. I feel really bad now have been coaching for ten years. Fifteen years I wish I could go back and have different conversations with my athletes than I had There was no under standing on why the women were making the decisions they were making why they were breaking their body. Breaking down higher rates that are male peers and we don't study female bodies enough. We have enough research on fuel. That is, I carefully like blame coaches not knowing these things possible sexual eyes, most of the things that are specifically female, you know, or we make them

pretty like the menstrual cycle. Has this reputation for being something you can't talk about without using euphemisms breasts or sexual eyes, just injured twelve and a half and get them so makes it hard to talk about our bodies in to talk about our bodies with grownups, especially linda what what Did your ass? A? U kosher many many years. What did your ass it's from you as a woman. Deadlock couldn't have from a man or his act, or do you think it there was? No, I don't think that they go something for me that they couldn't get from a man, in fact theirs now here in the audience or coastal areas, who is fabulous, coach and role model for me, who is very sensitive to the girls. You know. feelings and and wishes and dream. So I dont them Think about it. I have to. I have to go back and tell the martian that we should not. We don't

to ban mail coach and should be educating them along with women coaches who, as law, points out, are also guilty of a lot of the the nonsense that were reading about. I mean you look at the harvard ice hockey coach having every week there's another story about some egregious behaviour on the part of up. You know as professional coach and their oftentimes women too. what what what about this, though The second thing that I took from reading both of your books was particularly from orange. Was this. This notion decided they talked about bravely sure before about that. You spent a lot of the book that the trajectory of a minimum, is different and that many women have this kind of in there. They teens only twenties have a kind of performance plot, yeah, and so they observe the men getting better and better at sea every year? Many of them hit

period of couple years, whether times are not getting better in some cases are going backwards and tat triggers all kinds of disasters is that how does how do you deal with that issue? Amiss it is, it is, is A case to be made for is some somehow separating out the culture, of male and female running enough that age. So there isn't, this kind of of looking at the man and thinking they should be doing the same. I think that its findings, different experiences. You just need the different experiences normalized from day one I couldn't Coaches are having their conversations with parents and students. That's the time to lay out hey. We have a cross country team or track team or basketball team, and we working with thirteen eighteen year olds, for example, and female body We're going to be going through something that looks more like this, which is like, if you just look at all the data on performance, really doesn't matter what the sport is by

sixteen seventeen female gains. Performance gains on average are like one to one and a half percent, whereas their male counterparts are there, they go their duty to do and the vienna either. It's got like like this, but we haven't been telling them during that stage of life that hey this is temporary. This is like a really blip in Europe. On term progression in your prime, is in your mind play twenty isn't beyond so really we just need to every coach an adolescent. Female person should should telling them hey. This is gonna, be part of your normal progression. More than likely you're going have a plateau or even a short term dip. I will be cut through that experience. He may its you're gonna be navigating this with you. made. Some of you will be on this part of the curve someday you'll be on this sum. You'll be on this, so part of team culture. Needs to be supporting each other through that rocky road from day one and not looking at it as a bad thing is just a different path like is there going to be feelings of disappointment, sure in and we can make

is for that without pathologies and that's what we ve been doing this, because we don't recognize the females, have this performance wave instead of this point women's line. When they hit the plateau and there's parent to have been like. I sent my kid to sport psychologist because I thought they just didn't care enough anymore or sent them to a dietician, because I thought that they were Nutrition was sloppy. Like that's just puberty, you just pathologist puberty yeah, let's see the trouble, I I totally agree with you and yet I think that implies that, coaches have room for. Have the time The amateur athletes are patient and that their parents, the patient and in the least in my experience with them peaceful parents. Of course many were wonderful. I loved them always have to say that he said but there's this destroy

to achieve and then get results right away. You know, there's not enough there plateau or getting worse than again What's your problem here, and so it is about fortunate. It is in its also. There are some things we can't change. I mean sport. As we know it was built from male body, so high school sports. We invest a ton of money in high school sports in college sports and that's ages. Thirteen to twenty two, that's a great time to be a male in right and that's why they're I'm guessing though integrated into our education systems. It's like a and why scholarships are given out based on whose the best seventeen or eighteen year old, that's a better predictor for Male bodied person than a female body person of what your future potential is, but the scholarships and that whole system was created long before female, we're, like I've, been there asking for their share of the scholarship pie button

There is no getting around the fact that seventeen and eighteen year olds are the ones getting offered the scholarships or not, and so that adds this enormous pressure right during development right during pick, your purity experiences of change, where you like hey you're, telling me to accept this temporary state of plateau there's a lot on the line. Hundreds of thousands of dollars of scholarship and opportunity and if I just restrict my diet. If I fight puberty, if I you know try to aim for this body that I've been old is the ideal performance body now than I can give myself a chance to have those opportunities. But then you pay the price later this brings us to the martian second point: just one the lender, raises explicitly in her book which, when I reckon that part of europe. I was like amen, I'm with you on this, as both has malcolm handed,

the martian, but there is a time to pull the plug on athletic scholarships and preferences. You know if you, no you're describing this kind of the level of pressure that debt is brought to bear on the seventeen year old girl, at a time in her device and when you can't make you know in a prediction about where so, this whole. We have this whole system in place being driven by the enormous cost of culture education by the expectations that come with scholarships. What have we just ended them? I'm offering and, of course you know many of the kids going through it now will be like, but way that's a fair I'm. We know that is what we ve been counting on, but you know it would if there were no admissions advantage and no athletic scholarship.

Of any kind available to college kids, then it would it, completely change the way we provide sports two kids now, because it there wouldn't be this race, pardon the pond to you, know yeah to achieve by thirteen, because we might all disappear and also. You know I love sports and I'm a runner- and, I think their wonderful, but it's not clear to me why a high school athlete should get get advantage over someone the oboe or whose and acquire like, why aren't there special dispensations for them. They are entitled to special scholarships or admissions advantages or streamlining missions process. So I think it's, it would be more fair. I think it would also be impossible decline. back or at least very difficult. I really love that party. Your book, though, like I, because I have often thought neon if we could just given

the scholarships. It would really so much pressure on athletes. chile girls, I think that the pressures which just go way down we be way more likely to allow development and change to happen on its timeline, but really her book. I was like. Oh my gosh there's this whole other side of it the whole big business of youth sports. That is also driven entirely towards that same aim and as someone who has a nine year old and a five year old and I'd like them to participate in sports. I don't want to be a part of that mania I don't want to be having to, travel for hours every weekend. To give my kid this that top top perform the opportunity you. If I want the kind of sport that you describe in your book the ninety on site. I am for getting rid of athletic scholarships, but what had prevent in the past was what would we replace it with. Book you also provides a really great ideas of like that. There are other models and I think sometimes we, like lack imaginations, really helpful to see other ways. People are doing it.

I can remember the one that you describe him, he could talk about. My name went that would make no well, I certainly in in Europe. They don't do you sports, like we do it at all, so you know that so school based sports, it's the after school, its community, they support, so that also sets up the whole ouch level and then when I was running in england, there isn't. There were no teens avis over. There were tears, but it was completely alien to the way we do it here and there was no coach. There was a student lad, re totally student, let it was probably comparable to interfere off here and it very serious and organic and I don't see why that's not a replica here thinking and the college level and other possible. suggestion I had which will never happen as well. How about if we just abolished college sports as

But but I say that, but why not call- an interim you're on it's not saying it's cameo, one by one and abolish you talking about inter collegiate boys like obesity. Double I snapped area. One what's ironic about this is in research for my book what women had in sports, What club and inner mural before title nine, and but there was a huge discrepancy. Obviously, there was no scholarships for us, but there were formed. Within the unsuitable ay there was media, but all these things that come with that infrastructure, in sports. We wanted it to write when maybe all along, we wanted quality, but maybe they should have followed our lead. Maybe we round to something: well, one title: nine happened: there was a discussion for the first couple years about will be fooled into the existing men's programmes, or will we run our own show here, like we ve guaranteed? We have that the scheme

we need to provide the opportunities that we don't necessarily have to run it exactly like the un's blaine. It took a little bit before the decision was made to indian setup, and, unlike essentially with arguments my book, is that we should be creating sports with female he said the centre so that they can have any, what chance to thrive in the sports system than that we continue to take it back and be to do that because giving people the same thing the exact same way, isn't get you the same result right. So how can we level the proverbial playing field in you, sports? That's after the break.

T mobile for business recently teamed up with Malcolm gladwell for a new episode of revisionist history to talk about how five g is reinventing. The fan experience, hello, everyone, my name is Malcolm Gladwell. I am the host of the revisionist history podcast, and I am here with cali fields, president of timo of business. I think that a little bit you know, we said, participate where fans can enjoy sports sitting around to the radio, and then tv brought the ability to and visually experience and celebrate and participate, and then, if you're not able to be in person at the event, what five d, as bringing to F one and two major league baseball or to the event and sell tp, is accessibility. It democratizes the access for people to feel like they're, a part of the event you can put on an oculus headset and you can ride the track around which most people don't get the opportunity to do that and technology allows you to have a very different kind of experience with for it. Listen to this episode of revisionist history recorded live from the las vegas grand prix of the I heart. Radio app available now before a I can help. Your business predict demand, accelerate growth, informed decisions, automate tasks reveal insights, generate content. You have to trust in introducing watson, next governance, helping you govern any ai as data models and policies change, so you can scale it responsibly. Let's create AI that begins with trust with watson. X, governance learn more. I bm dot com, slash governance, I b m: let's create.

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The weakened immune system may have a decrease responds to resolve the most common side. Effects are tiredness hetty painted the injection site and muscle bang. Ask your pharmacist or doktor about visor is always be back, seeing a braceville respiratory sensational virus vaccine for full persuading information. Please call one a four four: nine, eight nine seven to eight four or visit a breeze boat outcome brought you buy pfizer. We wanted to things it's along these lines, that of I've all of often wondered about, is whether there is an inherent contradiction between designing boys programmes for the for the fifty percent idle and design them for the ninety. Ninety five percent are and maybe those two things are in some sense incompatible so, if we do away with high pressure or collegiate sports ends scholarships

things, maybe we produce fewer new, we don't that. Maybe this we produce fewer world class. Voters, as he's running, as things but maybe we also produce way more people who are happy and contented and run their whole lives, and may we get fewer to twenty five marathon errors and more to fifty marathons I mean I would be happy with that but you know their lot, there's some people in the kind of leads boys community who consider that a tragedy wealth, a few kids, not enough kids participate in sports now, and I think, if we can, the model to try to get more power. the patient, I mean there's just article. A paper yesterday about the income gap between the the pan, wealthy families earning over a hundred thousand dollars. Seventy percent of those kids play sports and in families earning twenty five thousand dollars and less thirty, one percent play sports. So I think this

part of the same conversation that there, the way we have developed the u sport system with its height, asked and just let me finish has pushed more more kids out so that our fewer kids, you gaining the advantages Our country is one of the ones that I think has the least access problems. Yes considering that they generally dont have cuts and- and you don't have to have been in the youth sports high performance pipeline to to join a team and off new benefit, if you haven't, I mean I certainly like When I started as a ninth grader running, there had been plenty of people in my town had been running a long time and you are not at a disadvantage. I was not at all at a disadvantage. If anything I felt like, I was at an advantage. That's how it was framed. Jimmy cause you refresh yeah, and you have plenty of years ahead. It's just like making like recognizing this timeline, but with my interested in soccer thinking by

five hundred dollars for a spring soccer experience for they can't listen, don't you know, leaving town in one. So I don't really understand he's had one practice. These nine, like I don't understand how anyone can help people are affording this and continuing to do this. If I can just point out that in my town we have a junior pre academy for you force which is three europe, We was well it's a junior precarious, because there's also the pre academy who, just for you fancy, so they like free k, yes, but by the time the other said: qr picked out a prick hadda me than theirs academy in futures and then there's travel by their like they ve been playing for six years, their nine years old. You know, and each one it's here, five hundred dollars or more, which is in need of what the problem we were talking about with you with the money, and You do that, though, the weight so

the biggest obstacle in new mention this linda, and I would like you to be more blunt about this, because you re too, the biggest obstacle to the kind of the escalation of youth sports, its parents, oh yeah, so- and I'm remind you, know- anyone who has to deal with parent. My brother was a elementary school principle. Is now retired. So I can now say this spend and he loved his job and love to kids just apparent summer. And he knew no fifty percent, I think of his anxiety and came from parents, not from kids scarecrows prepare for the kids. He was, and he also had a missus Barry tangential Had this hilarious riff about how the parent, the teachers at the parents think of that teachers are always the worst teachers. Not only are they a pain in the ass, they don't know who the good teachers are very sort of

but I want to sell a martian says what ban parents from Asia or you can we give them. One then go to one minute, one event. That's it they want, then ok. Well, here's a good model is actually the way boarding school students his day. Parents don't go to those, because that end, those sports risk from what I understand do pretty well and the kids, it's pretty healthy between them with the coaches and the players, because the parents are standing its chain link fence observing. But in the absence of that, I think definitely restricting the parents is a good idea yet I would like say I had a lot of wonderful parents. but their hand for not great well. This you were talking about in your book about how, as parents we get sucked into are like our achievement,

as parents is shown in our kids accomplishments in that that's a relatively new phenomenon, internationally and my parents, my high school, could just retired after thirty years and at his retirement party. He again he tells me this. All the time is, like your parents were my favorite parents of all the parents in thirty years, because they showed up to like the first meeting. They came to three five events perfect. They never once screamed. You know, and they never told him how to do his job, think they show If enough, like you say in your book to like get to know the person who's spending crazy amounts of time with your kid yeah, that's important, get to know them a little bit and then get out of the way and truly like my sport. Experience always felt like it was mine and not agency that autonomy can occur. you mean to the sport in a way that I think got me through the ups and downs a lot better and

they'd I dunno, looks out so grateful for my parental experience and then wanting to your it was very affirming and like oh ok, they are actually doing a good job so well anyway, I shall try to do it. Like I turned out as a runner, I mean you're this year has to run our aid. Obviously you know they were doing something right by just stepping back my I dare came to you might our running curtain high school are one event. Had this. He immediately volunteered to help with the launch of they was raking. The pit and, as I was I will say a modesty that I one this is a tear champions. That day, as I'm roundly the final banned on my way to victory, into the infield, and I see my dad he's

he raises the rake and he goes go malcolm suggests. That was the extent of his above, and I love that. But to your point, the thing about them not being involved is that it allows you to also frame your successes and failures. The way you want to frame them because the parental frame is very different, there are much more. There are far more sensitive. I think in some ways to setbacks too. They don't understand the context in which you're operating the the social network that you're that you're you're competing in what has really struck me in both, as coach and since we have talked a lot appearances just how anxious. They are it's all this anxiety about how their kids are going to turn out, which I get you know, that's what happens when you're a parent but and somehow it's It'S- played out in sports, it's also play at school, but because sports are so visible, I think you know

you're your value as apparent is, this is so easily measure by how well your child does and I just I've been over overwhelmingly impressed by how anxious. Parents are about, and that's why they're freaking out and you know complaining and shrieking- and you know trying to get fired because you know you're not doing enough for your child again. that child to the next level. Debt did. Dealing with parents. How much of an obstacle is that for people for coaches Continuing to coach, the enterprise coaching is that constraining, are apply will have an important step here to share this is accurate too

the eight percent of coaches in to preserve aid about five years ago, and I'm sure it's gotten worse, said they thought about quitting because of parents to them. So coaches sat in a more recent survey, said parents always criticising their child, their criticising officials. I mean cultures are really down on parents right now and this interesting. Interestingly enough in this aspen institute survey the paris or, like we love our coaches. So there is kind of this weird disconnect there, but Coaches are really down on parents, and- and this is I am fair- and I think I many parents are trying to do the right thing and our door wanna be that parent I've heard that so many times. I don't wanna be that parent.

Yeah can you do mile repeats, but I would like to say, though, that there is a time when they should interject when they be, you know, come not come leaning but raising talk into the coach or talking death. Let athletic tractor and that's when there's some funny What is going on- and you know work, the kids, the higher the level of athlete the child is the more elite. likely the r b emotionally abused and physically abused, and I think that strangely, when many parents don't step in they raise hell when you know that child is put right field, but if there are slight a lot of nastiness and a terrible team culture there quite as long as thirteen is doing well and

its intimidating. I imagine you know cause you're like dealing with an expert you would we tend to assume that they, there a method that vetted, but they wouldn't have got where they are born if their successful, particular vs. Meanwhile, that there's a lot of tolerance of terrible things we shouldn't be tolerating just because the coach has a great reputation, yeah, It's true you talk. quite movingly. And honestly about your own father new book, some of the best parts of the book, At the beginning of the book, I thought I thought your father, your father came across his are much less sympathetic figure than he does by the end. I'm wondering how do you how'd? You judge, you're the elite runner here How do you judge your own parents? Do you think, your father's, role in your life.

she was a runner was neutral or her. She was think that overall he was really positive force here is an alcoholic for people over the book and he worked really long hours as a prompt maker. When he got home. There is about and ninety minute window where I could catch him sober or he would have too many drinks. Where I didn't know what kind of doubt I was gonna get and so I developed this habit. china to really get his attention through excellence during those ninety minutes, because he really loved excellence, excellence and everything music, so words, you know culture like he just it what to see people like at their peak doing Think incredible, so I wanted to have his light on me in that way. From that perspective, I want can even really blame him for that. That's just one of those childhood things were a dynamic emerges. Alcoholism, was ideal deftly would have preferred that not to be there by, but then

gosh throughout my career, he he was so nature had, was a constant positive, like I always knew I'd be loved, no matter what the result was when I came home so, even though I like desperately wanted to please him and be excellent for him. He never was like here came down on me when I failed. So from that perspective I just I would like to be that kind of parent, for my kids where the marchioness another question. The estimation this is the more this is the martians most trivial, frivolous scripts suggestion, although maybe not the martian, says wonders. Why, given all of all issues that are flicks girls and sports why female runners, whereby hookers and crop tops hmm

very easy question to answer for the martian. That's because our culture feels that female bodies. Are there to be viewed objective I'd commented on- and in order to do that they need to be weighing less fabric and tighter fitting fabric. And that is how female scott, their start post title nine was a movement to make really. This is true to make up for the fact that peace, We need to be why watching inferior performances, and so they to be a visual spectacle and that's what the uniform differences came from and gender. The clothing in sport, which, of course women will say they wanted. They didn't want to be wearing like this extra large hoodie, necessarily all the time they wanted things that fit and performed, but it took says static angle. That is so that's why, I was looking. I read your book and then was,

pictures of ethical, I think I see some cross country gmo forgotten which will cause country team. Now, as was were in fact it here you were five young women, all of whom had six pacts all of whom had not a stitch of fat on them. all of whom lots of shiny unhealthy and like cheese, stature high bar for somebody who is not an elite division. One for someone here if I was eleven twelve year old girl thinking about how or high school- that and I and I go online- they see that picture. That's what I'm can we at least just wear a t, shirt and a pair of shorts and just make them just that little bit easier on that eleven year old. Who wants to join it yeah? Well, the thing is that probably me at will

I dont, think I expect is necessary for high performance at all, and there is a fixation with looking the part more than being the part and the uniform it's that dynamic mean that played a huge part in my life throughout my whole career was like ok, markets are good, but like what do I look like in my uniform, I dont look race ready, so I'm not race ready or the scale. Doesn't sam race ready, sir grace ready was like those are not the most important dictators not even close and like we have These concepts of race weight, are created and perpetuated by men, primarily who have way less monthly fluctuation. hormonally end, they are being up I had two female athletes as if we can somehow have magic number on a scale that if we can stay. This number we will perform optimally based on physics formulas, but It's not our bodies work and then it creates this very narrow band that you have to try to exist in and achieve in order to

be viewed as elite. and I mean I watched. It happened on my teams, where women who didn't look like that were shamed made too you'll like they were committed enough just because they didn't have the six pack really matter how fast they were running. That's going to college to get in our town, the high school girls wear those uniforms yeah, I just think that's terrible. I just think there's not a performance advantage. Now or that are the men and boys would do it later. let's just that the school at the school you coach dad- You are coaching gross cross country. Did they were now there's no way, I would have let them Oh you put your foot. One of my favorite images of does london when she want.

passed a marathon rainbows bag is short say from its just. The whole thing is silken tactic and bad ass and, like I just for those is its much. It's almost is much more powerful emotionally here to watch her because she's not pretending to be wearing that you, form she just being her. Yet This is where, in the thing she wants to wear, it wasn't sheltering base their parachute of a running ahead. I think I feel it is you re going to see one leg. You have the time whose view don't does then that is a very a very, very good american marathon, The year there was a year that the Boston marathon took place in a gale and the only way any what you could win. Emily was so nuts that the only way you can win as if you were the single tough, most bad ass desmond adjusts healed through. I can I likely tat the last.

Three miles and a document to be as they would you not only emotionally work. She broken incredibly long. Drought in the oven, Finally, I can winner win, win yeah, yeah and in her books coming out like a week. I think the troika should we should return again, yeah, definitely sugar running with me. Unless then he returned. We don't find me running partner, but we do settled on a grand solution to fix you sports once and for all.

T mobile for business recently teamed up with Malcolm gladwell for a new episode of revisionist history to talk about how five g is reinventing. The fan experience, hello, everyone, my name is Malcolm Gladwell. I am the host of the revisionist history podcast, and I am here with cali field, president of timo of business. I think that a little bit you know, we said, participate where fans can enjoy square sitting around the radio and then tv bright, the ability to and visually experience and celebrate and participate, and then, if you're, not able to be in person at the event, let five d as bringing to F one and two major league baseball or to the event and sell tp, is accessibility. It democratizes the access for people to feel like they're, a part of the event you can put on an oculus headset and you can ride the track around which most people don't get the opportunity to do that and technology allows you to have a very different kind of experience with for it. Listen to this episode of revisionist history recorded live from the las vegas grand prix on the I heart, radio. App available now, if you're

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they may not the martian on this one. You know I've And competitively in high school and stopped for thirty five years and start again, and I stopped because although I was very successful runner the pressure. I was thirteen and fourteen and fifteen and I found the pressure of racing, it grew unbearable and I just couldn't do anymore and I've often- and I I love track of how much joy I founded running and got soon by the only measure of me as our motto, was whether I could win a race and that like- and I I I lost out on thirty five years of pleasure, as resulted to them. I know I'm wondering: should we

He should we, if we're since we're banning stuff. What stuff should we be? Should we be banning cut of serious competition until I dunno fifteen or sixteen or something should we push out, is there any reason why thirteen year old should be competing at a national level? Now, in my view, what you know, I was at the moors games about six weeks ago and notice that they had a race for the fast this eight year old in the world and they these you know these any children they eat or from different countries under where they came from, but they all ran like the same time like ridiculously fast, and this is one You know we're time up before you mentioned various models for doing things. We need to do the national championships at age. Thirteen and twelve, like inner. I been in lot of sports around this country. There are these ridiculous championships like

all children and- there's just there's. No reason for that and. The country that doesn't do this is norway and they have incredibly robust participation and then like great success with their athletes. After so I would tell the martian. That's what's forget the championships, you know what I said before teen say I did this. I did this recently and I can't remember what it was. Fifteen years a sixty year old someone made a list of the top english. sixteen year old mail, minors. runners over the last thirty years somewhat years and the quest raised was how many of them went on to be world class. Addled matters in the end was such a small number that it was like. wait what so, if we do sports at that age, because we're trying to identify people who will be talented as addled athletes, it's just

but the worst predictor. Imagine it's not working nationals have, whereas thinking in this story, like the reason why we have the national championships us for the adults exactly, for the sponsors and the people out to make money? hosting it and yet in getting the tv rights not stuff, it's like shit, May the eight year old he's like you now I want to the best eight year olds in the world model? Can you look that this right? scores some questions for Linda. How do you as a coach, solve the problem that your mom likely to favour. gifted ones than the not so gifted once you ve got a problem. Well, I don't know exactly what you think you have to be aware of the fact that you may have favorites in. I will say more about favouritism could sometimes the best one is not your favorite, so I think it's just

awareness on the part of the coach to recognise that it's not building the team to to focused solely on the best girls you miss. Hardly, learn. If I was your high school coach, I would be famous right I don't know. Do you know my high school coat motors lose it. There is a natural that this kind of The success of the late invariably reflects back on. The gas in ways is not always so answer right. There What was the story? Didn't make the book by understood little bit upset about it now, just kidding that my eyes, my coach, he by the time my senior year came round, he was getting really swept up in accolades and how reflected on him and There was some indoor meet that I really we'd never the stone from southern california like indoor track is not really a thing, but there is the

one place that you can do it with a wooden track, and so we would go and sort of having a relay. Every year there is like no you're gonna run the invitation mile and the to mile. These used to be prestigious raises. Twenty. Five years ago I water I want to coach someone who wins these races and Oh you, retraining over christmas break for the first time ever like doing these hard work out in a time of year, when normally ridge going on fun runs. I was not enjoying myself. I was feeling tired from the cross country season and when we got there, I the first race did terribly- and I was like I don't want to do the second race and he's like no, you need to do. The second raises is a big opportunity. Pushing me to do and I was like coach, I'm not your racehorse in. He loves telling that story to people will start burst out laughing as it can. You believe that can you believe she said that to me and then, but then he apologized in the car later he was like it was. He actually said he's like I was getting swept up. I was making out me. I wanted that and you never wanted to- and I just wasn't listening to you when you are trying to tell me so it's real

the a pressure man, that's a rare coach So we had a whole series of things we wanted to ban areas. Can we so- we wanted to ban by hunters and craft ups, a ban on there? Men are on there. They parents, parents were banning competition before Fifteen fifty, I think, is reasonable. Naturally, you really translations are ok, just not try. My running crew was over effectively fifteen different areas. Now I've, nothing! You ve made of mileage a gardener over the years over my running, exploits at the age of fourteen is: can terrible now an enemy sounds article on the chimps anti war, favorite ban of all the bans.

if you're going to one of those big event- parent the championships, the bun hookers and o n the college scholarships, I know my favourable. College scholarships is my favorite ban, mind who I think it would downstream solve a lot of the other problems. They could basically neutralize parents, most of them yeah. That expression is so fantastic neutralize three parents at one stage talking about the virtues of neutralizing people in our position, yeah and then there'd be less motivation to host the eight year old world championships, yeah yeah yeah. Well, here's a good question. Does it change of women's girls' sports need to start at the grassroots level, or will it have or we talking something has to happen top down there be a can. We have a revolution that can change this or or do we not is someone that you you talk about a kind of you want to czar

one of the shell of alma ata kind of separate yeah yeah. That would be nice and she's. So many people have so many ease our jobs. For her shall note lobbyists on every problem america's has with england, limb, shell, I think it has to be both. I know that's a bit of a cop out, but ok, let's start with the top, though, if we'd and the scholarships that is going to have this trickle down effect. Permeate all the way down that The larger issues with you sports, more than you know the one this specific to girl problems, but I think it would transform- the whole game and then a similar high level thing, I think, would be mandatory coaching edge. Patient for anyone working with female bodied athletes, I think, there's. I can think of a single reason why we wouldn't do that, but the giant gap in knowledge. We have

one question fire books, because not only to grass roots thing that, like our own me to a moment whereby you see I'm not stand in for it, we need, on the grassroots thing, the thing in both if you would have way more knowledge about this and make it I being overly optimistic if I say that the this change is going to happen when the girls themselves stand up, and you say this is nuts. It's like. If you, the coach of that team and you observe that there are some issues superior, and no one's really talking about. Why someone's on her third or fourth unexplainable stress fracture, someone's polemic, someone, and then the person who wins the race from the other team is so scarily thin that you're worried about her yeah. Well, where you can normalize anything, it's just going to say in a culture right and so yeah. I think, but I don't think that it's fair to put it on the girl I think that I really think parents

we know parents don't have enough to do if they want to get involved. This is how you should get involved, which is like yeah, don't stand for it. You talk about that bus. Begin. Not being afraid to be the parent that says, you know I'm not going to do the extra yes thing, I'm not yeah! Well, I think you know it's it's in my book, as trying to kind of both understand where parents are coming from and also be. You know, offer a critique, and I think that it, is important that parents recognised they have agency that they don't have to go along with everything that you know that extra and conditioning training- or you know wait work out. That's might be helpful. The supplemental training, like the soccer in my town and offers six year olds that they can say. No to that. It's ok to say no to their from

just the other day. When I drop my kid off at the five hundred dollar spring soccer, experience have at present it's a little bitter, very annoying. Wait till you hear this part. I was like see a dude and then one of the parents that I know is a parent of another kid in the class and she's like you're, not staying like god. So tat. You re actually giving each other pressure yearly. Words thing at a practice. yeah. I wasn't going to stay and watch the practice to have to look forward to we were. Someone is waving frantically meat at me from off stage, but I look so we've got to end soon, but I wanted to do. Further runners out there. I wanted to get to toss them a bone in someone asked, russian. If you learned since you that you're you're running stood so rare that we get to hang up like me, but I'm so bitter about not going to go running with you because you

I'll. Tell you why it was it's not too late. What're, you doing in my recent differences Those of us who are just kind of everyday runners we're we run with people who are your level, you guys float. and we're running, and you look over and you're just couldn't she Then it like magic like watching a magician, do a trick right. You like, oh, my god, you're, not even at breathing that you don't touch the ground and you're like how is happening that sounded like a year and intellectually curious person? Most people are like I'd like I'm like. Do you want to run with me, they're like? Oh? No, no. I would never do that, like I promise I'll run the pc, you want to run and they're just like adult athletes. This is really for the two of you and then we really do have to stop. What did you guys like the most about marathon training until he started nimble that life

a thousand years ago that I ran to forty nine. If I had one to forty nine, I would have a t shirt with hitherto horn here that began in a super issues that we, like the two thirty right now you're right. You know, I had a great group to train with, and the training is the fun part. Not always that's the camaraderie that I got in marathon training and you there a long time so for those are the training runs, were kind of fun to do to me. You know when they weren't miserable. I didn't have a group, but I did get to have my I saw coach mark roland at oregon track club elite. I had always had him in a group setting, and I was the only one doing a marathon and that's normally the time he did new york when track and field athletes are taking. It.

And so I had him to myself and you would rise bike alongside me and we got Have all these really nice chats and like I just loved was the last year we worked together so to have that I have a lot of fun. Memories from that, yeah. I think that's a lovely way too, and because It's a reminder. We ve been talking about what's wrong with running and the thing that I was trying to help young people when I try to get them to become runners, is this thing the camaraderie stuff, is something it is just magical like. Going on a long road with a group of people who you are friends close to any worked out with before those of there's something there. This you'll never find anywhere else issues to the end, and I think that that love like that's what true, our books. Think when you know that you have something worth fighting for protecting. We really just want to remove a lot of the garbage. That's getting in the way of that right,

Thank you so much to the two of you Thank you to all of you and go get your kobayashi get himself This episode, revisionist history, was produced by leaving guess do with Kiang Powell, bended F halfway and Jacob smith checking by keshaf Williams and tully evelyn Our shall runner is peter county. no scoring by luis gara master. By Sarah care and engineering by nina noise? I shall thanks to the ninety second street, why crew might panel of potential. running partners learn Fleischmann and understand. I'm out.

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