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any car in the oil, giving you more control to get more done. Learn more at national car dotcom subject to availability, in other restrictions, the pushkin, a revisionist history listeners, Malcolm here before we get started. I wanted to update you on a few things. First thing this august, twenty fourth, the revisionist history season begins in early eight old old school episodes in row of little narrative jewel boxes, you ve come to love. We been feeding you little bits and pieces her father season, but this is the main event the heart of it is a six part series on guns and violence. That, I think is my favorite thing. We ve ever done

weird moving funny heartbreaking, so mark your calendars august. Twenty fourth is when it all happens, and by the way, if you want to get that whole mini series really and binge it all at once without ads. You can just by becoming a push, complex subscriber, in fact just sixty ending in a month or thirty, nine nine. a year, gets you every one of the pushkin shows early and ad free. Just go, the revision is history, show page and apple pie or pushkin dot, fm, slash, plus to sign up and one s thing speaking, things you should bench. The latest season, our true cry, masterpiece lost hails, has dropped the new season, exe who is the legacy of malibu dark, prince mickey dora mickey was a surfer known for his style. Grace and aggression. Rule the malibu beaches. Nineteen fifties to preventing seventies celebrated for his rebellious spirit. He was also

a man who led the fbi on a seven year manhood around the world. Believe me This is a show worth. Listen, so son up, Pushkin plus you can binge this one too. hello, hello. Everyone mountain gobble here, I'm hewn studio with my iconic over the revision. Is history ombudsman, whose combined for the second time to do an alternative correction instruction end and tell me what sk on right and wrong in her own mind, they are, so far. We welcome. thanks. So much for having me welcome. It is always a pleasure, although have to say that in your last few episodes I have felt a little bit purse only under attack, I mean we had the monk debate which was an app. Thirdly, fascinating episode. Two men are also a little bit about in a second, but I dont know if you know that I used to be a debate or an I debated for multiple you.

It's a pretty high level in high school and highschool yes, and wait and do you successful? I was success. Well and but then I stopped debating. So I did not debate in college and I stopped debating at the point where you would have gone to like nationals and like really had to focus, a lot of time on it because at first I than to it as a way of clarify my thinking and I just thought it was. amazing, when I watched people do this like. While they can synthesize so much information. They can argue all these points and I'm someone who, like really loves to argue out both sides of something to figure out. What do I think the? What what's important here and So I thought debate which would help me without any did, but there came a point It became formulaic where I figured out how to do it and then asked interest and because I realized that it wasn't actually about thinking deeply. It was my.

more about rhetorical deafness technique, technique yet accolade is heavy, does state. That was the great take away from me in doing it's I'd. Never I debated there casually in high school once or twice- and we did inventory debating were heckling was allowed. That's amazing. We did not have had we had actually goes. You have haggling in parliamentary reappointment of parliament's a shit So when we debated we just were folks and haggling. That's what you mean it sets out so far and I haven't we shall be debating. I think that's what our debate was, but you're debate among debates was not about have no, no, you know about. It was tat. It was a very different formats out for people who do not listen to the upper side or need a little bit of a refresher. You were arguing a resolution, and the resolution was: don't trust, mainstream media and you weren't, thus you are on a team with Michel Goldberg and you are debating against matter ye be and douglas murray

and douglas murray, as I found out, and I saw, as did other p, Well, who you spoke with after that he's a debater, and and so far is yeah. Yeah he's robbie sets. We're gonna spoiler, spoiler alert up. How did you do malcolm destroy? I mean who is filiation on the level, my social media to this day is to fill people gloating about, I got my had here to me- you did dead, but what I actually like, I loved that after that happened, you went to learn to figure out what you did wrong, and so I loved and of the second part of the others where we get to hear nationals talk about what you could have done, what you didn't do and you want to learn how to debate. My complete ignorance of this debating technique. Yeah is what kill me that and also the fact it. You know, I was excessively self confident going into the end, not self my abilities to debate such as self confident in my

in the position. I was arguing, I just didn't think that there are lots of peace. Their particularly in canada, who Believe you shouldn't trust the mainstream media just couldn't get. I just we're gonna win. You know I loved the inserts that you chose for the podcast, because you know, really showed some of the issues which, as I actually I think this was a bad thing, because you felt strongly about your topic right. You, you don't even think that it was possible I do the other side because I mean, as you said yourself. If you have to be insane to not trust, mainstream media. To think that the alternative is better, and so you brought a lot of emotion to it, which I think is good from a human point but from a debating point of view is not certainly ideal and can cloud your ability to hear the other

sides arguments what there actually saying, whether their twisting your words, whether their twisting the actual premise of of the debate, and that I think, where you got got so to speak. yeah, it's funny cause, I'm not normally I am not normally someone who'd does rise to debate no they're, not know me, someone who's, terribly emotional, but to get angry, mature brunette. There was something about that. on that, just like a cup pissed off about half end- and I just couldn't- keep it in yeah and an you could tell that you you're pissed. I really think the Douglas murray kid is love all right, well, wishers, we'll haven't had other, but that that gets too kind of the psychological heart of it, though, because what we know as soon as he press a button and you actually become enraged. And you become emotional, your logic

just down a little bit your ability to process information goes down a little bit and europe, they too listen goes down a little bit Why? When we are in an argument, we want to be the one who does not get emotional right. You want to be the one who steps back. I want to be the one who says: ok, you know, let's take five men obviously when you're on stage in front of an audience with someone you find loathsome That's ok! Let's pause this for five minutes and take a step back, but it actually made me think some of the criticism that that you got was not listening. Well- and it made me think This gets to the heart of why I quit debate I have something that I learned from con artists. So a few books back. I wrote a book about con artists and I spent multiple years with con artist, and I learned all of these fascinating history. Isn't on con artist,

totally fascinating character, victor lustre guy, I don't know if you ve heard of him, he stout himself has count lustre, given though he was not account. This was early twentieth century, so victor listed as most famous for selling the eiffel tower, not once but twice to two different groups of investors, so he was very good at what he did and he wrote something called the ten commandments of communists and one of those commandments is something that just him to mind immediately, which is that a con artist isn't a good talker. A con artist is a good listener and if he think, if you think about what that means, right listening to the other person, is how you get them and as how you trick them. It is how you take advantage of them, and so it Actually that's what came to mind when I was listening to this debate and I got wait. A double It is a common in a lot of ways, interest heads kind of way too. You know with a better listener. Your actually going

be the better talker and you're going to be able to take advantage on artists are great talkers right there, there silver tongued, but listening. at the heart of it, Here's the other thing I was thinking about you know with respect to debating second way in which debating is kind of a not a trick but Oh, it's a trick version of a clear, and that is that I, Why is that? my My normal way of going about the world is it, can information and don't respond immediately, and to turn things over for a long time and decide how I feel a long time later might be weeks later. Let me months later, I'm some kind of a slow process. and so processing has been very useful. For me, the debate form does not advantage

low processor, I was as as you as your office and I had to do in real time respond to people. I can't do that. Yeah I'll have a kind of and douglas murray a great debater. His great advantage is his fluidity right. It's dislike. It comes in one ear and boom he has a response, and I'm still thinking about months later. I still thinking about what should I have said you don't know yeah and it's a skill, skill and that's you know at the end of the day there it's what I came away with, that debate teaches you. Very useful skills are fluency and of conning ironic. an additional point like this least it when I went and hung out with the broken debate, league the other day when my tutors it'd be a better debated. The one transcended value in learning to debate. Remember that the kids that day at the book, in a debate like this, They are most concerned with many of them.

our from thus privileged backgrounds. Right guitar, my kids from poorer areas are broken. You know what debating allows- is for these kids, to be heard on subjects weather. We're normally no one would ever pay than the status attention. So tell a fifteen year old kid from bush. Wig I'm looking to debate immigration policy and not only do they get to talk about immigration policy will have to listen but allows almost have another identity and be These are kids who never have a chance to have another identity, yeah right and that's what is an incredible gift. That's been given to them by allowing them to stand up and inhabit a way of thinking or a set of opinions. That would where's be denied them know that that's amazing and I think that that is something that it's actually incredibly special about debate. So so, let's just caviar and put that as an asterisk that it can give you

tremendous skills, it can give you confidence and especially in a sound like me, you know I didn't speaking When I came here as an immigrant didn't it fits in very well, and that was also a way for me to fit in adverse yeah yeah so there is actually one listener email that came in, which actually raises some of the things we ve been talking about so here's jonathan rights, so If we learn to listen to each other in debates, I've always struggled with the benefits of any debate does winning debate matter any more to the well being of society as your favorite and be a team winning a game matters. Does a society full of expert debaters achieve something our current society? Cannot? I think this actually you know really important. Austrian and something that we ve been touching on, because, while I think that Debate has given me a lot of positive and, as you say, kind of this group in Brooklyn Stephanie gives a lot. Those skills of you, flu, did he s being silver, tongued

not necessarily, I think, beneficial well there. The question is: are they are served? Spillover effects, listening, I'm being somewhat learns to pay attention carefully to again Saying is a really important skill that economic gain through practice as a trip. So to the debating, is really listening practice. Then I think it's really useful a lot. What's difficult about listening and why I think we think it is an imperative skill. Is that listening about the negation of the self right eye is not important? It's you who are important and theirs, much privileges of I these days. I've always wanted to do, I have a little salt and fantasy. Where I teach me this class rear- and I would like my english class- can her glance. You'd want to be.

What are the rules? I would have is going to write a series of things over the course of next year my ruled as you can never ever used the word. I in anything you right from it right now, if you, if I see- and I referred to you Damn it anything. You write you failed and just that I feel like the kind of discipline of forcing to always be talking about the other. To distance themselves from their own perspective would just be incredibly useful, and the new yorker would be very happy that they have a whole generation of writers who don't use. I tried so hard for so long when I was a new yorker writer not to fall into the I trap and then you know eventually you're, like I give you just like speaking to this journalist, china is so disingenuous. I love the the english got around this by saying one One listens to one's perspective on mine.

And what does one think about, because the problem is that you get it you get into the multiple one then, and you once you admit to using one once you have to keep and you're like. Oh, please, just stop. It is really annoying and snow just annoying and makes it difficult to understand because it actually unclear yeah, yeah but sick, acquit brick. What happens when business as usual gets very unusual for small business owners Coming soon chase for business- and I heard are launching a new body cast about small business owners who went all in everything, was on the line here. True stories about the make a break moments that paved their unusual half to six How close relate illusion at all? What hurdles, overcome. Do they turn two for advice hosted by chase business, you can see open walter and tanya, enable a lawyer in business consultant this inspirational new series, celebrate small business, the backbone of our economy,

in the leaders who set out to make a difference for themselves, their employees and their communities from pop shops to rapidly expanding companies employing hundreds you can learn from the mist. Eggs or bad breaks that ultimately redefined the journey to where they are to learn or a chase business dakar chase, make more of. What's yours, Mobile app is available for select mobile devices. Jim data rates may apply Gibby mortgage, and a member after I see twenty twenty three J, p, morgan chase and co. The victoria secret vs voices pod cost is back with sea

in three join me: a man, the cabinet, as I sit down with the wonderful talent surrounding the re, imagined a clinic fashion, show victoria secret. The tall twenty three august include the incredible women of the tall twenty three, including Emily right, a cow ski lego, space designer bubu oki, see bogota, based I'll make a christine sanchez, Tokyo based designer jenny, facts and london based designers to prayer lily. These are a few of the exciting uk Invitations coming your way, so please join us for season three of vs voices with me, a man to the cabin on the eye. Hot radio, app apple per costs or wherever you liked to listen Hey her enthusiasm picture, this perfect curls at the push

a button? It's the new infinity probe, icon air curl secret ceramic otto color. This tool makes styling effortless delivering perfect long, lasting curls. Every single time choose from three preset curl types and directions for your desired: look and five temperature options for all hair types and don't worry about tangles, our anti tangled tack and ceramic barrel. Keep her smooth, unprotected hair goes in girl comes out just like magic. Get effortless curls with the new curl secret by connor, available at all major retailers. The second thing I wanted to talk to you about today is the importance of precise language, even if that language might make you uncomfortable, even that language might not be ace so to speak, but the importance of precisely what you mean, and I actually star laughing out loud at this person, or that we got so

I'm taking the liberty of writing as an admirer of Malcolm gladness, work to share my humble opinion on the use of swear words and vulgar language in your content. There is no doubt their use and proliferation has become part of the site gazed. It seems people that even informal contacts they london, air of cool and nonchalance helping them avoid coming across stuffy and stayed in a culture where everyone eagerly wants to be hip. What they don't realize is at the same time they cheapen the language and give it an air of two hundred us, it's the opposite of classy and also reflects laziness on the part of the writer. I hardly doubt push can would have used such curse words and his writing, This is where I just lost my shit because This is someone who has never read a word of pushkin Pushkin is them most foul mouthed poet, just I think in russian history.

And this is among other foul mouth poets. There is profanity in russian language and its not just profound it is like it is profane profanity your name say company. You know Pushkin here is named for someone who was so enamoured with precision in words with using the right word. And he would actually he has an entire poem that land set. Censorship and people being snooty about language them. Now can actually read that palm, but I was, to read a few of you. Pushkin lie. So let me just give this gentleman a taste of what pushkin writing is actually like. There's one from a poem which is called the wagon of life, Two degrees knew some actually gonna. Just read this lovely. just four lines in russian and then we'll do it cancellation, so sometimes you have to let go. Where are the goal? Was slow? Might

but he said Eileen Jago could each him bush Will you be on the might russian? such a beautiful allotted erotic language. Yes, so is this is this? Is just myra translation in the more and we get into this country, which was the wagon of life. We are happy to challenge our brains. Literally, it says, break our heads, but that's not idiomatic so, and data sting, laziness and leisure. We yell get moving fucking mother, but it's not fucking mothers, the little translation, but that does not even begin to describe it. So in russian the word to fuck and all of its permutations

is such an incredibly powerful thing that so I I was talking to my mom in preparation for this episode and asked her. You know how would she describe it? She said. Well, you could say that's saying fuck in english: we'd be, like you know, a politician just giving a talk in front of an audience compared to what something like uber and the mighty sounds like in russian people can get killed her saying to someone else. It's a very yeah. I mean you can there's. There is actually a history of you know people bringing fists two faces when you, when you use phrasing like that, because you know it's incredibly, incredibly powerful, were you your voice changes when you speak right it s really interesting were hit. I'm I'm I'm pulling a love of using migration where hypnotized, that's very funny website, where you just speaking russian, absolutely let's do it. not just me who's who thinks that this is so incredibly important. If you look at you know, in history.

Use of swearing is an incredibly important part of the language part of expression, part of communicating clearly and in fact, dostoevsky wrote back in eating Seventy three about how the single word, who we, which means prick dick but its once again, its both pray and dick and cock like all of those words are not not quite right, but but the male sexual organs, how you could basis they describe everything and every single emotion in the russian language with that one word and his permutations and how he thought that it was just awful that be censorship. He couldn't actually use it. Yeah So he has just this whole big thing on analysis. Dostoevsky, though, if you had named your company dusty, ask instead of Pushkin, he also would have because the latter, madam I board, can I just ventura a mild defence of our letter

now this please, which is, I, I think, did what then letter writer is arguing against, is sloppiness sometimes people use profanity when they come be bothered to x us themselves more artistic lemme, clearly more specifically more edwards its it becomes a kind of crutch, but the careful and the choice use of profanity it can be very powerful and sometimes even beautiful, absolutely on, and they four times this conversation with them spending enough offended. My brothers is a minimal pastor. Who he's writing a book about the use of profanity in the religious context, and he told me to worry about, of life, had collapsed series, incredible, terrible thing, It happened to her and she relates this Her friend end

her friend, who is someone who never in a million years user profanity used to profanity, and it was this incredibly emotionally important moment, because what the it was suffering needed at that moment. With someone who understood the magnitude of what had happened to her and the only way for a very strict religious person express was to swear wasted. Go into forbidden territory right. There That's really beautiful. I dont think our letter writer would disagree with that kind of used to prevent it I don't know I don't know our letter writer seemed I'm just much more generous than I guess So one of the reasons I get so riled up about this is the letter. Writer has a lot in common with Latimer putin, because back in two thousand and fourteen and Putin, enacted a ban on using the four based. swear words in russia,

in any sort of culture or artistic expression, so who we are he talked about you bite, was in the pushkin can poem so that poem would have been censored and would not have been allowed to be published and Pushkin could have actually been put in jail Oh witches kind of your female. another regions are, you are you are resorting to euphemism has stopped as you in the previous red and blue which a slut, but normally you just use it. as a as a daily exclamation and different permutations, so those four words are banned the russian language. It was around the same time that he was an acting anti gay stuff,

and you know it's a way of censoring expression ideas, it's kind of like taking a hammer to it right because those those words he something that my mom also always says, as there are really no bad words. It's just bad people, and so by banning these words, you know he's shown that he's one of the bad people, because you can hurt someone much more. Just like you said that using swears judiciously can be beautiful and can just be very powerful. You can hurt someone without swearing. You can. You can really just skewer them and just be absolutely vicious without using a single bad word, and it's all in the intention. It's on the person. It's all. So I as the moment I see any kind of censorship, is kind of like you in the monk debates. My emotions start getting riled up and- and I start wanting to say no- you know I am base

we always against anyone who says you should not use any some kind of language so about them. Now that we have established the parameters of precise language use, let's take a could break. What happens when business as usual gets very unusual for small business owners coming soon chase for business, and I heard, are launching a new body cast about small business owners who went all england. Everything was on the line peer, true stories about to make a break moments that paved their unusual half to six thus how close related losing at all, what hurdles. We overcome booty, they turn two for advice hosted by chase business. And can see open walter and time enable a lawyer in business consultant this

Inspirational new series celebrate small business, the backbone of our economy. In the leaders who set out to make a difference for themselves, their employees and their communities from pop shops to rapidly expanding companies employing hundreds, you can learn from them. Takes or bad breaks that ultimately redefined the journey to where they are today learn more at chase business dot com chase make more of what's yours. Mobile app is available for select mobile devices messaging data rates may apply. Gibby Morgan case and a member after I see twenty twenty three J, p, morgan chase and co. The victoria secret vs voices podcast is back with sea

three join me. A man de cabinet, as I sit down with the wonderful talent surrounding the we imagined iconic fashion, show victoria secret. The tall twenty three august include the incredible women of the tall twenty three, including emily rata caskey, lego space, designer bubu, o ye see bogota based I'll make a christine no sanchez Tokyo based designer janni facts and london based designers to prayer leyla. These are a few of the exciting uk conversations coming your way. So please join us for season three of vs boy says with me: a man to the cat on the eye: heart, radio, app apple per costs or wherever you liked to listen, Hey, hair enthusiasts picture, this perfect curls at the push

but button. It's the new infinity probe, icon air curl secret ceramic otto purler. This tool makes styling effortless delivering perfect long, lasting curls. Every single time choose from three preset curl types and directions for your desired. Look and five temperature options for all hair types and don't worry about tangles are anti tangled tack and ceramic barrel. Keep her smooth, unprotected hair goes in girl comes out just like magic. Get effortless curls with the new curl secret by conor, available at all major retailers are, I were back nobody, as you know, we gave club, university. The first ever pushed him price for the way they screw around- with their data- to get a higher place in newest news rankings. We What did than the george santos memorial push comprise for egregiously, deceptive self promotion and they were absolve because a clump of fishermen sadly, a smell them out and after expose their shenanigans. They fell from number two deliberating huge scandal,

which is quite the fall from grace is quite the far from grace. No one is more obsessed with using his rankings me. No We more delighted to see colombia, tumble so far and so fast I can see that colombia lump such yourself. This could be a little bit disconcerting you'd feel, like you're degree, was in some way devalued by learning. The school was eighteenth as opposed to second now. because I m when I applied to colombia first, what was grad school? So it's a little bit different. Secondly, it was not number two because this was pre manipulation, so I mean I'm sure there were still manipulation. this was. I started grad school in colombia back in two thousand eight, so the gimme. The collation may have started by then ok willing, we dont, know right. No economy has not come clean about, that gives us no. It no knowledge at all about the extent and this strength of this conspiracy, but I think it

reasonable to assume that it may well have started maybe and ninetys that that's actually probably accurate, yeah and the show just about it. I asked revision history is resident data scientists lorn level to reconstruct what columbia did But I also want to know- and this is crucial Is there a way they could have cheated so they wouldn't have gotten caught edwards Is there a way they could have climbed into the top ten without having run any risk of exposure and so Lauren sat down and went through the data and figured out a strategy to make this happen. so we are trying to do like a more sneaky brow of getting them into the top ten. So and twenty twenty three duke at northwestern tied for number ten. so we are looking to get this

score as a or northwestern, which is about a ninety two out of a hundred. One says that, for colombia just to be those schools or tie them. They don't need to try googling numbers like their graduation rate or justice. Faculty ratio or even how much they spend on instruction, it's all kinds of reasons biggest leave those particular tricks alone, on a specifically keep the expenditures per student figure as close to reality as possible, because those are publicly available figures and there in the consolidated financial statements and also since their spending is already so high, like blowing up that number further doesn't actually do much as far as ranking gos has already in the top, like ninety percent of schools like they're, already a top ranking there? stared lauren says What colombia could do if they want to cheap without getting caught is just to play with three variables

the percentage of class sizes under twenty students, the prison does your class sizes over fifty students and the percentage of faculty that a full time employees. So three like italy off the radar statistics now, for each of these categories, colombia gave numbers to you as news that didn't line up with what michael thaddeus pound the differences were enormous, so lorn says. Secondly, clammy should just pick numbers that about half as wrong so somewhere in the middle between what they sent you s news and the troops and if all they done was those subtle tweaks. They could have crack the doktor and what I arrived tat was. The combination of those values gives us around a score of ninety two which ties colombia with Duca northwestern for tenth play switches, kind of what we were aiming for. But, of course this

What club you wanted. They wanted to rule the rankings and that's why they do themselves up because club higher in the top ten is really really difficult You know we have to start making bigger and bigger, fabrications murdered a key climbing places which led to the idea of the synergy between the ranking metrics right like we have to tweak many variables and in some cases, by a lot to start, seeing any appreciable, changing score like inflating one or two values. Just doesn't really do much for us learn. The bell is saying is that if Colombia just fiddled with three incredibly obscure, magics and just usually ease their way into the top ten. No, one's going after them. Yet that's that's certainly true if they choose, just by a little bit less like who knows

and this goes back to. When did they start shooting great, because I'm guessing they did not start being so. Reach us right away? They started small and they started climbing and they got more ambitious and no one knows caught them. No one took him by the hand and said you know I'd boy. You can't do this, and so they kept going and they kept getting bigger and bigger and bigger. And that to me, is the hallmark of the cheaters who get caught colombia only gets carcasses sky like authorities. A math professor takes an interest and devote an enormous amount of time to figure out much to the extent to which his institution cheats right? No one else has so runaway? We have suspicion. That may be more cheating going on, because how many of these obsessive devoted math professor out there, are there who the motivation to look right now, but the governments looking or use news is certainly looking because, if use news the minute a day,

claim to verify the validity of the data they collect than there bible in the case of in the event of a he has a very clearly say we, check it here, it's only two and three may bring us up his walk, on the street in banana, but to exert down twenty second street guy stops me because Mr Glauber, I see a big fan of revisions history. I read the read that he went about colombia and I gotta think you could brought me all kinds of clients. Wait, wait as it. What do you do as I'm a lawyer, because what clients he goes Well, you can imagine when other schools learned about what was happening in colombia, they realize they had some legal exposure and they called me clydesdale, music, willie I said good tell me more is like oh, I I can't and then he walked away and I said well, I gave him my emails and he didn't email me.

proceeded so put that exchanges, you think weight. So What does he say? Is he saying that lots of schools are cheating they Colombia got busted and now there panicking and are calling him to figure out whether they have legal exposure is everything I think that's what he's saying, because, as the moment, you started telling the story and it dynamic to me until this conversation, but of course everyone sheets on the: u s news rankings, and in that case, right everyone's cheating by a little bit than the rankings are actually we still pretty accurate, because if every single school is trying to bump themselves up a bit, then that it probably kind of all evens out but there, no? I guess it. You know, I don't know I'm totally. This does not mean that not with colombia, The people who are doing an agreed justly obviously does not even know what would a better or plasma mission. the cheating arms race gap that somebody fiddles a little. Some else realises that their I ask of you is hardly a little nap.

hidden a little bit more and then what you in colombia is the culmination yes of a whole series of got sick. Colombia's nuclear explosion got it, but but yeah it made me realize you know how many people are cheating, how many schools are cheating on the rankings, how many are actually being smarter and just eating smarter and not yet as cocky as colombia became because that's the other thing right, the more you get away with it Longer you get away with it and more confidence. You become that you will keep getting away with it and that's completely rational. So, as someone who studies some persons question, is it So the longer you cheat and get away with it, the more com, since you become that you won't get caught, but is it the case that the less aware you are that you're actually cheating No, I don't I don't know. I think I think that these people are not pathological day. They are very well aware

what they're doing, but they probably give themselves excuses because they also don't think they're doing anything. Bad and people who cheat The time who, while the time they want to justify that no I'm not a bad person and I'm not really doing anything wrong, so colombia actually probably tells itself we're not doing anything. Bad were just stay competitive because, if we're the only truly honest school and everyone else is cheating than we get screwed and they are I felt so you know it's all. Do it a little bit with the lamps arms around so trying to having argument exactly which, at various times in my life, I've had a lot of sympathy. So here's what I would say that would say in the era that I was taking, echo in winning the tour de France area, not just people lots of things. You were you competed eyes. Levels of cycling was if you are using the using performance enhancing drugs. My

problem is that I was better added that everybody else, and I think that has she true, because you know you can just take performance, enhancing drugs and expect to be better. Night there, there simply a tool that allow you to train in different ways and to explain your potential more efficiently and he was the most efficient exploiter of his own potential right, the theater he he a considerable his canoe terrible intelligence and the man and his group, or these cuts were like to bear on the question of ok. Forget it eco, how do we maximize its usefulness? So, like he's sort of right like if land is a less expert cheater. He doesn't get caught most of those guys never got caught, but it's also because he's so incredibly talented that people are gonna, scrutinise him more and so is like colombia has respect. You know that the reason we care that club,

sittings, its colombia right, we're not these tenancy state. If they cheat on the EU s news, we're not getting quite is upset we don't write structures, illiteracy, state no offense place, but yes, point point taken here so late. Mr confessions, are cheating on the way? Now? What are you cheat on? I cheated on the weekend, I ran in the sharing connecticut classic five mile road race, the annual road race how'd you do, and I came in, I think seventeenth. Nice can go on an old man knows Zuzu good, but I cheated, and I cheated me cause. There may be other issues as well. I was wearing pickles shoes. You know you know that this is downright issues you can buy with carbon fiber plates and visit. Kind of an issue may buy new balance, which combines a carbon fiber plate with what they call a high stack height

an enormous amount of cushion, and you could have bounce down the rough, and I heard and in certain cases these particular new balances. Their banned from formal competition. They could not worthies if I was running a marathon, but I'm like it's the sharing closet I have five mothers, like you know, there's like fifty people in the race. You know it's saturday morning, like I'm an old dude. Nobody cares, but technically it was cheating What was it actually banned what is it for our lives and no, but is cheating in a sense, it is a violation of the ethic of this report and it is an unfair over everyone who goes that race who was not wearing carbon fiber carbon shoes with high standards If this was if this were actually unimportant competition, I don't think you would do the same

My race was an important to me. I guess I have to say that that is exactly what I'm saying cause, I felt mildly guilty. As at the start, starting line and looking at would choose to see if anyone the issues and I feel guilty. I do a conscious decision in the mornings like you could have, lots of legal shit, sure everyone's virtually everyone, here it is wearing some kind of carbon fire shoe, but this is when that combines it with the second answer, looking arousing soon elsewhere. In these new advances, I thought exposure and zagreb, but no one noticed and my if you look on the website of the sharing classic five fitzmaurice, there's no asterisks action, may select fumbling out now everyone I mean I did not know that I was sitting across from a bone fired. Did you can put

that story- and your maybe maybe now you're going to make my cheating, batman and you're going to be it's going to be an entire chapter like Malcolm Gladwell or, just very briefly, go back and we're nearing the end of our time. Yeah. I one last little bit of business, which you know, I've been hanging out these prize pushed impresses and we talked a little bit about first one, the george santos memorial pushkin prize for previously deceptive self promotion, I love that you put memorial in there. That's hilarious. Well, his career is essentially over, so I feel yeah exactly, but there was another one I did in a. I read the story by this student at harvard harvard your school, that you are at the beginning. That was you. You put a little bb in there without any swear words and some of my best friends went to harvard and and their perfectly nice. People are those people. So This student in Brooks andreasen, who wrote an article four, the harbor crimson in which put it

just how many administrators there were at harvard, and so I called him up and I said, brooks did you do look for me. I want to know which school in america the highest ratio of administer it is to students. The perfect number would be one right. and I called at the icy you, staffing ratio, and I see you in a hospital- is characterized by the fact that there is a wonder when ratio of staff to patients- that's their at eighty spaceliner after me, more, but that's a basin I say: to what extent can we figure out if any college is come close to an icy eurasia, so they is. The second push comprise the icy staffing ritual word and I deputized brooks to go on the world and to do some research and figure out who the closest to the magic number of one and I just wanted to run through his findings,

We I limited him to. The ivy league plus mit in africa is increasing. So he has at the bottom was brown point one for then click point one five. there does colombia, cornell, dartmouth, mit harbour and the heights, point three six minutes staff to student ratio, is here the bulldogs they take on them. vice, which means like you, walk around the yo campus chances. Are you one? is likely to run into administrators. You our students, which is I'm sorry, completely natalie bananas, It is bananas, but but I will I will actually push back a tiny bit on those because, as someone who to harvard we always were a little bit jealous of the fact that yell students had more severe

more resources and where you were a you're serious, I'm actually you went to harvard any one of your complaints was a lack of resources relative to other schools. Not relative to other schools, just relative to yale that yeah was a much more personalized environment where stood actually had places to go people to talk to where there was a. Very big support structure that was actually pretty absent at harvard like There's a big square where you sink or swim, and I was fine with that. I actually I loved it. Like I'm independent, I don't need it. I understand your face your face, but but of these pieces, when there are no one's, ever saw no one's ever sunk in the history of our university of some people have sunk, I mean like nineteen thirty six somebody dropped out all I mean is that administer, there's do serve a purpose for students, port student resources, I think that's important and all these people jobs. So these are but who are getting paid money and making a living and they'd be fired

had lower ratio and people are going home, babies, starving, Davis, Altos, sacrosanct. No one is saying that anyone needs to be fired with the push prize. We simply like to shine a spotlight on, shall we say anomalous behaviour by illegal, to in the united states come on for every three students, it's getting we're not talking about academic staff, the academic stuff obviously as more important, but and for their parents who pay the tuition. that covers this enormous amount of I miss him glowed, fair enough. Yes, yes, read. This has always been enormously fun. I go home. Just thinking about your trip. donation when you speak russian and how anyone with a privilege of hear you speak. Russian gets a different maria, I love it and malcolm. I will go home about your seventeenth place finish in europe.

Race that that was life, changing for your as it was because it was taking room thinking, malcolm religion. Is history today was produced by kara powell with Jacob smith. Women get too bandit, have half ring entirely evelyn hearing by flown williams, cerebral care and K Wang, music by luis kara fact, check.

by keshaf Williams and tal emblem. Our show runner is Peter cloudy I mountain global. Then Walter is the ceo of chase for business. I recently sat down with him to discuss his passion for helping small business owners. Here's what he had to say, so I know that you ve worked with small businesses for a really long time. More. Do you love about small business and small business owners, in particular its a few things? If you think about small

Business in the context of the economy: let's take there, there's a little bit of brain and a little bit of heart in that question. You know if you take the brain side of it. The american economy is particularly dynamic and robust because of small business and the role that small business plays in the economy. Couple of numbers, forty four percent of people- in the: u s are employed by small firms, two thirds of all new private sector jobs are created by small businesses. You know that's the brain side, which is it's a huge driver of the economy and that's really important. So the success of small business as a category is really important to the success of our economy, and our ability to generate wealth and well being as it is a country. The heart side of it is theirs very few things that are more american than someone setting out in building their thing. I mean you meet those small business owners and you realize what they go through what they deal with the adversity they overcome to build, something that is theirs, that's a chance for them to build, not just a living for themselves, but generational wealth for their family

to build security and and a future for their employees, which you know to a person all of my clients. You know express passion for their employees in the way being of their employees. It's driving the economy, its driving communities and its driving individuals. way in an emotional way that you know lots of other sectors of business down? And so that's that's fine. Fun. Give me one small business success story. I tell you what I visited last year at seattle, but I loved called bonds. I sushi the guy who owns it, wanted to bring healthier food to schools. And he actually started testing the market by Really buying sushi had a grocery store and selling it at his old high school to see if there was a market for it, and there was people couldn't by enough of it and he bade if we invented a way to cause the trick, and what he taught me is that the trick with freezing and thawing sushi is not the fish, because most of the fish you eat when you eat sushi has been previously.

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