Are we ever gonna get to universal health care in america? How did jewels jump start? A new epidemic of teen smoke. I'm doctor Abdulla at least we got america detected, I speak with the doctors, scientists and culture shaping the future of health and society. Together, we dissect how scientific discoveries, trillion dollar policy and cultural trends are changing the world. What that means for us new episodes of america to succeed, drop every listen to and follow wherever you get your podcast today's. expensive is simply safe home security. No one wants imagine their home getting broken into, but the truth is there's a break in every twenty six seconds. Scary, yes, but that's wage, protect your home and simply say from security. It simply save your safety is the only thing them matters hears why John loves it? Here's why I love it. I see you get your set. We save comes in a box, you get the exact number of sensors and and other detectors that you need

detectors, and then you set up the base station. He set up a number of how you do it all by yourself. It worked perfectly any app is great and it's a great system and a highly recommended there you go. You are in your first thanks civilization every inch of your home from intruders fires. Floods. In more minor by law regional monitoring agents ready to dispatch emergency assistance to your home when you need it most in an emergency agencies. Fat, protect acknowledged only from simply safe to capture critical evidence and verify that It is real soon get priority. Police dispatch, national monitoring costs under a dollar a day with no long term contract. Less than half the price of traditional home security systems with the simply say, fabric unlocking, unlike you, doors access. Your case in arm and disarm your system from anywhere any time. Customize the perfect system for your home in just a few minutes at simplisafe, dot com, slash cricket, go to date and claim a free indoor security, camera, plus twenty percent off your order with interactive monitoring that simplisafe dot com, slash crooked, there's no safe, like

simply save the welcome to pod save america. I'm John favour and dan pfeiffer on today show donald trump and his maga friends use a toxic train crash in ohio to pick a political fight with the white house, Joe Biden, Surprise at the world with a secret trip to ukraine and the report in primary, is already a race to see who can out trump each other, then leah, litman from cricket. Strict scrutiny talks to Dan about the two big tech cases at the supreme court heard this week, but first check out the brand new merged that just dropped for all. You marvel an x, ray vision, fans out there. We have an x Revision was right, teacher inspired by the icon magnesia was right, shirts donovan:

That means and by the fact that all jason and roses predictions are correct. Obviously I do know that means dog eat dog, come slush store to get your shirt now. Also, damn we had some special elections this week, exciting really exciting, which I didn't I knew about the wisconsin race, really know the other ones, were happening miracle that happen. You're sleeping but Democrats kind of crush them the party over performed in full. We raise is won by a new hampshire state, has candidate a kentucky state senate candidate and virginia jennifer mc clellan, who will become the first black congresswoman to be elected in the history of the commonwealth. It did know that race was happening. We also had the first round of voting.

in the wisconsin constant state supreme court race. The general election on April fourth, will be the most important election of twenty twenty three. Why? Because the winner will tip the balance of the court, which will decide whether the states abortion ban and severely J, mended maps are legal basically about whether or not the state of wisconsin will still be a democracy. So here's what we got from from the first round voting, the conservative candidate will be Dan Kelly. He is an anti choice, ultra magda activist, who was involved in the efforts to overthrow the twenty two the election parent lay he was he was dug. There there are their chief council, all the people who are trying to figure out the fake electors scheme, that's. What this guy he's the Rudy Julie, ADI of wisconsin here? He also he lost his last.

Election and twenty twenty by ten points, but he is extremely well funded. So that's that, serbia have carried the liberal candidate is janet protest, say: what's approach, choice anti gerrymandering, judge from Milwaukee. She needs to win and she needs our help, which is why we are officially kicking off, are no offers programme for twenty twenty. Three. Now we will be focused. all the ways you can get involved in this was concentration matter. Where you live, you can donate to support voter education. In an mobilization efforts in wisconsin. So this is going, be the most expensive judicial race in any state ever in history. And in a lotta conservative donors are prepared to spend millions and millions to when they got a bunch of right wing billionaires up there in wisconsin I and off. He knew that they

I needed to dump a whole bunch of money in, at this rate, the? U lines the cokes like to play: a rado was consent there they're all going to because they hate democracy and they hate freedom, so yeah. Basically, it's the conservative candidate. That Democrats wanted to face because he's more extreme and he lost his last race by ten points, but the stakes are super high and again, if janet wins, that is it's a good chance that abortion will be legal. In wisconsin and that that we will have new maps, which means that when a majority of was concentrates vote for Democrats, you will see democratic representation in the state legislature, and then hopefully in congress as well. So that's it's pretty huge yeah. I mean it's it's hard. He we talked with a few weeks ago, but you really cannot overstate just how important this is yeah. So you can also sign up to be part of the vs. A volunteer community will show you how you can help

whether you're in wisconsin, whether you're, not in wisconsin wherever you are. I just had to vote. Save america dot com today to get started anda and help out. Alright, let's get to the is donald trump ventured out of his beach club this week to visit east palestine, ohio where a hundred and fifty car train carrying toxic chemicals derailed a few weeks ago in spill, toxic chemicals into the air and water of a town at home too, about five thousand people. Trump went there to blame Joe Biden for the crash, even though the former president is responsible for repealing regulations that had to do with both railroad safety and toxic chemicals, transportation. Secretary P, buddha judge, who's been getting hit from the right and the left over the administrations response, is in east palestine. Today, here some of what both men said during their visits to the people of east palestine into the nearby communities in ohio and pennsylvania, we have

told you loud and clear. You are not forgotten. I sincerely hope that when your representatives and all of the politicians get here, including baden, they get back from during ukraine. That he's got some money left over judges, criticism of you pulling back real regulations you can do with it. Are you here come here yeah, you should have been a long time, your age, you don't you come age heard, him say he had nothing to do with it, even those in his administration So if you have nothing to do with it and they did it in his administration against his will, maybe he could come out and say that that he supports us moving in a different direction and we're out of own, our policies when it comes to raising the barn on regulation hoof, it is twenty,

we three right deals really feel like it's a twenty twenty. We only have one entire calendar year until the first votes in our public. primary- are cast along object before we get to the politics which we will do. What do we know so far about why the train derailed and how safe it is in east palestine right now. The national transportation safety board is still investigating the specific cause of this crash, but they believe based on some statements, that it involved in overheated ball, bearing that forced the derailment. That's the specifics, this one, the broader reason why this train derailed- and there are a thousand derailments a year- is the rail industry is lightly. Regulated, frequently puts profit over safety and very specifically, has been trying to save money by making trains longer. I e putting more

cars in the train, which means making transport more cargo, were dangerous chemicals, in this case, with in fewer people belong, you make the train the more likely there has to be a dynamic, and so that the broader issue here. That is really the crux of what people just say that we need more regulation to enforce more safety, because around three will not do it on other. That is very clear. in terms of how safe it is there. The epa it officials have said the air and water are safe in the people, are at risk by every reporter who's been air. If you look at social me there, a lot of reports about people with headaches and rash is and sick in a farm animals and patsy dead fish, and so we don't know that, but the residents are obviously quite can, earned and that's why binds epa administrator was there last week, and so we know we I couldn't we don't know the answer to that

It is the people there is a real level of concern about the safety, given the large amounts of dangerous chemicals that were released from this train is way to prevent a massive explosion that could have costs I want a flight. Yeah and officials continue to say that that the air and water are currently safe. But if you're, someone who is evacuated from your home, you come back you've seen like black clouds in the sky, you're seeing dead animals all over the place, you're seeing pictures of water with what looks like chemicals in it, you have a rash. Your kids have a rash. You are coughing all the time, yeah you're going to be pretty fucking concerned and apparently, like the e p. A

have the tools that the pair was using to the to measure. Contaminants in the air and the water are not calibrated to the to like they're calibrated to like figure out whether it's like an epic disaster, basically and not to weather like some of the lower levels of contaminants in the air, they might not pick up. Just again, you know: we've had E p. A cuts now for about ten years, continue to cut down, make cuts to the environ. Protection agency, and so now there's gonna be official on the ground and I think one thing we learn. For example, after nine eleven with first responders is like you: ve really got to track this kind of thing over time when it comes to the health of the community and the safety of the community and the environment and see what happens, and so a lot of water question still to be answered there. So this is, of course become a huge political issue. There's lots of blame being directed at lots of people from lots of different places, let's not with the criticism that, by

in buddha judge have received from the left which, having falls into two categories, one they didn't speak up or show up fast enough in two They haven't done enough to regulate the railroad industry, specifically that they hadn't yet revived and obama era safety rule that trump repealed, which would have required better breaking technology. Would you think of this crisis I think it is fair to say that, while the The administration has been exponentially better than the top administration in terms of regulation generally. Holding corporations accountable, there's a lot more work that can and should be done on the rail industry. I think that is a very fair statement that is fair criticism. I think in the the binding administration sector, but it s what say their hands are tied in some ways. Congress has Some was that limit what they can do as we know- and this gets like way in the weeds fellow regulation- there are costs and if it analyses and when one, if a democratic,

We should put the place regulation or public administration eggs. It away with a new cost benefit analysis. It complicates the next administration putting back again so that its ways, but I think it's fair to say now: to move faster and more aggressive, and frankly need to move more faster and more readily than obama did like, when you look at both at the rule that we'll get you in a second could be, stronger and should be much stronger. So that's there it is we you can like a residual talking about just how far trump and their problems in congress to side with rail lobbyists to make rail travel in this country more dangerous, if disaster, this more likely to make pollution harder to clean up to me, Companies less accountable for the missed for that for their misdeeds, in this case there I am confusion as it relates to this one specific role that obama put in place in two thousand and fourteen. And after a bunch of trained derailments and that law

would require pneumatic breaks. Electric breaks, essentially the more sophisticated, more expensive breaks in the ones on most trains on trains, carrying a certain amount of toxic chemicals in when you have those breaks to realm, was the less likely because they all have all the breaks will kick in at the same time. So the train cars don't run into each other and then destroy then become derailed. it is it, and so that the fact that Biden has not put in place, it can be huge point of criticism, and that's criticism was probably fair by that rule workplace would not have applied to this train. This train had one of chemicals, but not enough cars to meet the threshold of the obama rural. So I think, there's a fair, point that that law that regulation be back in place. I imagine it's very quickly, gotta be in that process because of this, but that would not have prevented this specific disaster. It is amazing, has gone very lost in the big debate over this year. I think the real question is: if we know that of these electra

It breaks, which would update breaks that currently are like civil war era breaks on a lot of these trains. If we no, they would prevent derailments. Why just say that they should apply to what's known as high hazard, flammable trains right, the ones that are carrying so much toxic? Why not this? This train was classified as a mixed freight train instead of a high hazard, flammable train. Why not just make sure that all the trains have these breaks, insane like how about that now that would have been. I I think, during when the when the obama administration originally proposed the regulation. Some experts were saying well try to broaden this regulation so that it includes more trains, so that it applies to more kinds of trained more category. And for whatever reason they didn't think they could do that. The railway industry fought back. They said that this was like beyond that. hope of this regulation. Again, don't know out but like now. Hopefully they do that and

again, like you said it's not just now up to the administration, because then in two thousand and fifteen republicans in congress slipped into a bill that oh by the way like you need to do all this cost benefit analysis before you have any kind of railroad regulation or a transportation regularly. And so now hands are tied, and so now congress probably needs to intervene to really expand. A lot of these This becomes this is that a defence of what happened in our administration was happening here challenge in all of these regulations is because the laws as written over them. many years of the regulatory state are largely pro cooperate and so you have to demonstrate to every regulation be able to stay in effect to pass scrutiny from congress in the courts, the benefit of that regulation have to outweigh the costs, so the people on whom the regulation is implemented and that because it can I'm challenging when trying to stop things like,

elements. It happens a lot, but they happen only a small fraction of the number of trains that girl. So if you say, every train has to have these breaks, the cost x amount of money You look at the number so how many actions that further prevent a thousand a thousand its costs acts, but the cost of all. He's breaks having to go in is larger next, then you can't do that regulation, which is just a very I know it sounds like math actually wise and efficient. But it's like oh guess what cost the railroad ex billions of dollars, and it only costs the immunity that got devastated by a derailment up. You know exe million dollars. Well, you know what, when it's like, five thousand people who get returned to their houses than have long term health problems yeah? Maybe the dollar amount on that cost is not as much as what it costs the fucking railroad. That's making rough

record profits, but maybe it's still a good idea to do for public health, and we d all apply the that sort of logic across the federal government as an example. Most americans thought you take their shoes? Often they get on a plane, because twenty years ago, some try to put a bomb on their shoe is an example of that like there is. The point here is one- should do more and do better. We also need better laws that are more pro consumer and more and more aggressive and corporations. That is the foundation that even at it's the ceiling of why even them aggressive administration can do on these matters. Yet. But you knew mentioned, from administration. Their record here, some of the things the trump administration did when trumpets and office, they dropped a ban on shipping liquefied natural gas by Roy

tank car in that ban was so that the day they said that the expansion of new s, natural gas production necessitated the roll back, the ban had been a response to concerns about possible explosions, trump administrations. As we didn't care, we get shit more natural gas. as trump's federal railroad administration stopped, conducting regular rail safety audits of railroads which the byte administration did reinstitute once they took office trump rolled back, almost every regulation on toxic chemicals imaginable and put a chemical industry executive in charge of the e p a's chemical division and, lest you think this is all just trump era bureaucrats doing all this work and trump didn't know what the fuck was. winning tromp bragged about some of this. He literally quote tweeted a headline that said trump roles back train. Breaking ruled meant to keep oil tankers from exploding near communities, and he wrote effect will be great exclamation point on his tweet that headline amidst go. They get

Is you didn't you could nurse in all the other policy weeds rigour asian bullshit words, but that's what he did. That's what trump did when there was a way. That's that's his record. He celebrated. On social media, a rule that would have made what happened in committee. What he's Palestine less likely as a victory for himself in the rail industry the smoking got like that it like that it could not be more obvious whether a regulation would have like prevented this specific crash, wherever this is what he. This is what he was celebrating when he was president. So here's what people to judge has now proposed. He said that the deep transportation will pursue some regulations on their own on high hazard, flammable trains. An electronic breaks by.

You know you can tell from the language and their that it's basically like whatever the law will allow them to do and that they are constrained. The department translation is constrained by certain laws that are on the books, so he also called on congress to act for summit bigger stuff, so bigger fines for railroads more of these electronic breaking reg. asians and regulation of hazardous material. So all these republicans who work planing now about p and about the vitamin estrangement, I'm sure. As soon as some Democrat introduces legislation you expand the regulations on electronic breaks and hazardous materials and fines for railroads. I'm sure all these republicans will be on board. This legislation will have all, Co sponsors right, yeah they have, they have seen the light they now because of this disaster and recognise that dangerous siding with lobbyists they now cure passionately about pollution and task in safety. So done just should be a huge by partisan victory on this one.

absolute Biden, gives your pen radium about bills. Design, yeah, ok are so the Criticism from the right, of course, has been predicted nastier and more absurd republican politicians have been attacking Biden for visiting crane before ohio. You heard trump do that marjorie taylor, green, even said Biden should be impeached over it. They been calling on pete tourists, in and then we're hearing this kind of shit from people like jade events and tucker karlsson. These past is overwhelmingly why and its politically conservative, more than seventy percent of the voters in the surrounding county supported donald trump in the last election That shouldn't be relevant, but you're about to hear it very much is since, if this affected the rich or the favoured or it would be the weed of every news, channel, in the world, but it happened to the poor benighted. of these palestine, ohio? Whose people are forgotten? and in the view of the people, lead this country forgettable. So what

think mega world is so intensely focused on not east palestine. Aside from the fact that the eu they ve always been champions for health and safety regulations, Tucker girls in pretty much said it, and if you want to understand modern republican politics, compare The republic, in response to the crisis in flint michigan, a largely black community. And the response here in east palestine, a largely wake me- message here in tucker, carlson says he like. He is the earth text of republic in philosophy and message it. He just says it. If that's not all is the point here is they want to demonstrate to their base that it is their job iron democrats, liberals, do not care about a certain second population.

That we prefer to do this to help other people how people a bride is we'll talk about and not help people it is, it is pure racial demagoguery. Yeah I mean it. is the reason that they're all intensely focus on this is that this hits at the core of their message. It touches on all the erogenous zones for preferred mega politicians right democrats only care about people who are not, why not american, and not from small town, red america, and that message happens to intersect with how a lot of working in middle class, americans of all parties and races feel about government The institutions, which is no one, cares about me. No one listens to me. No one sees me so they know that this is fertile ground, not just for the maggots base, but for a lot of people who just feel left behind by government because they are in communities that have been hollowed out.

In a post industrial world, not just rural white communities, but inner city, black communities, rural black communities, latino communities all across the country, and so this is what they do now. What do you think of the best democratic response to this bullshit So there's two ways: look at the first is like: what's your specific response to what happened here in this community and with real disasters, in general, and I think you there if you had a few minutes ago in this park, asked about everything, trump did to side with corporation side with lobbyists, but a chemical industry lobbyists in charge of these things like. That is the rule. Its approach here in that it, and that is p budapest- a little bit of this in a subtle, hijack, friendly way in his as a push back to trump, so I think that is the way to do that here, more

Broadly speaking, there is a battle here for, as you put, people who feel left behind- and that is not, as you say, just white role blue collar voters. It is people in our cities. It is people who are left behind in this and in various committees, rule suburban urban, etc and People who feel like they have not got name correctly feel they have not got in a fair deal in life. The economy has not been friendly to them. The system has not been fair to them. An republic in response to, that is to say. The reason you are left behind is because democrats care about people poorer than you. People live in different countries You yourself said this, so how do we respond to that part of that is to explain republicans are the ones who have left them behind, because

I care so much about rich people and corporations that they are. They want to help their wealthy, rich, politically connected friends and not these people, and so we have to go on offense against republicans as people who could actually represent and fight for people who feel left behind in all parts of the country of all races of all life stories. Yeah, I was going to say I think, there's something even even bigger here. That Biden does quite well. I think he did in the state of the union quite well too. it was very telling to me when there's an axios piece where they got on the phone with a JD vance center from ohio. You know peter teal puppet, a guy who out who ran away left ohio, so he could go to silicon valley and then get funded by peter teal billionaire, so he tells axios. You know they cause. They asked him like why? Why do you? Why you all care but the so much any said, because you know trump and tiger carlsson, and I we realized these are our voters. These are our voters and

and then you have you, no marjorie taylor, greenest, weak, saying you know we need at national divorce and in people from my blue states who move to read state should be able to vote for five years right, and I I think there's an opportunity for democrats not just to show that they're just on the side of working class people and sort of a a you know, sort of engage in this economic populism, but really like go bigger and it is like we. We believe that everyone, everyone deserves to live in apes, if healthy, prosperous community, no matter where you live, what you look like or who you voted for right like that? You think those these people, your voters, care if there are, voters are not there, there, americans and we care about them, the problem with that party is, they only want to help the people who believe what they believe and who support them, and Joe Biden and the democratic party want to help everyone, even if you're not for us, even if you didn't vote for us,

and the rich people who run the railroad spent a lot of money, lobbying politicians to get their way, and now those rich people and those politicians are trying to get us to blame each other for this or to blame someone else to blame black construction workers right. That was part of the technical, something that he said. I m o p talked about this too many white construction workers, while what pete said was in inner city community. Is there importing white construction workers to do projects when there's a lot of unemployment, and you could have more black construction workers work on those projects? Of course, Tucker carlson turns around to say no more white construction workers from you know. That's what people judge us. So they want you to blame black construction workers or you, who are fighting for their lives against a dictator or means, and government officials who have been fighting for better regulations and better working conditions, blame anyone, but the rich assholes who run the railroads, who spent a bunch of money to lobby politicians successful,

we were like a century too rich railroad barons, fucking americans executed. It's it's unbelievable, I think you like it. It's really encumbered upon democrats to nudge, just no they're hypocrites. They have done this on the side of work. We will it such as that their hypocrites it is it. It is a game that they're playing- they don't want you to point the finger at once you to point the finger at every one else, except the people responsible who were the rich assholes line their pockets? What we are sort of like dancing around here is this much bigger cause. I false choice. Debate happening with in the corridors democratic party, which is there is a report out this week for american family voices, a very smart liberalization. Looking at the democratic brand among blue collar working class voters and swaller, It's not right, and so the question Endlich. We obviously know that we see that as we

as democratic share of the working class vote in the non college. Get about has gone down in recent elections and so the bushes. What do you do about it in the debate? sir centres around two ideas and are not mutually exclusive. But in a world of limited resources, my kind of our One is improve the democratic brand. The other is damage the rubble, brand, but these voters, and that sort of where you know where your trying word- that sort of the poles around which this debate operates is hot. What's the borders more likely path that success short term and long term measures. Run it taken clock here We want to solve some of these problems by twenty twenty four I particularly for running against Republican who's, not donald trump, and so that we will I'm sure what type of a thousand times between now and the election by that is that a big one?

and for Democrats is how we address some of our jobs. Other publicans don't have just as many challenges as just they just happen to have an electoral college that structurally favors them in a pretty massive way. Yeah and, as we talked about, I think, just a few weeks ago here in for a long time. The problem with democrat and work democrats and working class voters was with working class white voters. Now, increasingly, it's becoming a problem with working class, black and latino voters, actually, male voters as well, so it's big challenge, but it may is brought you by blue and, if you're anything like most people setting grand resolutions for the new year never works, it I'll feel so daunting. Try this instead start small and think about all the little habit changes you can make one step at a time. That's why blue and is perfect because they make it so easy to start low waste lifestyle, no massive overhaul of your routine. Just time changes that add up to a huge impact,

blue lines, on a mission to eliminate single use plastic by reinventing cleaning essentials to be better for you and the planet there. It is simple: they offer beautiful, endlessly refilling cleaning products. Just fill your balls with water. Dropping the tablets and wait for them to dissolve you'll never ever have to grab bulky cleaning supplies on your grocery run, refill started just two dollars and twenty five cents you can even set up a subscription, or by in bulk, for digital savings, from cleaning sprays to hand soap towards both cleaner and laundry tablets. All bullying products are made with clean ingredients. You can feel good about try their clean essentials kit, which has everything you need to get started. Three bottles of cleaner, plus a bottle of hands opened, comes in beautiful light, send such as iris agog a fresh women in eucalyptus. Mint blue berlin has a special offer just for positive miracle. Listeners get fifteen percent off first purchase of any product to get you and your year started right, logo and love it. The great idea: love products, Schuman, waterlogged, love, the way, the bottles look, everything looks clean, good smells good, smells great,

easy to order and refill is again a bunch of plastic bottles all over the place. Great, no need to throw this out just phone backup, film or backup to get fifteen percent off your first order go to blueline dot com, such cricket- that fifteen percent off your first order. Right now, when you go to blue n dot com, such cricket, that's blueline, dot com, slash cricket, pod, save america is brought you buy into chino planning a wedding. Hoof cannot be a pain. Now. You know logistics, lotta logistics, lot of decisions to be made, but you know what finding the perfect suit shouldn't be: one of the difficult decisions. Three make the piece of cake, not a wedding cake. Oh my gosh Tom how indo chino makes it easy to get a fully customizable suit right from home, with dozens of high thread count fabrics patterns and colors to choose from entertainer helps you design a suit perfectly tailored to your body, and your personality into china. Lets you design a suit

I always wanted and fine tune every detail from lapels to linings, monograms to pocket, flaps and more very fun. Picking out the liner you'd actually make it fun. No one really sees it so suit, starting it just for ninety nine jonesy move with suit starting four hundred and ninety nine dollars and fitted shirts at eighty nine dollars. Its best spoke without the premium price tag. your measurement profile and into china's website and choose fabric and customers, nations or book an appointment of shoreham near you and let indo china style guides, help you and your groomsmen with every detail. Their team of experts has the resources, style, advice and professionalism to make your dream suit a reality and help your groomsmen look just as good stand Beside you look, we, I think we all have indochina suits and I'm sure derby do looks great and I love mine still have it of habit for years, and I still wear. It still looks great, looks good when planning your wedding get a suit as unique as you with indochina. Could energy,

It's a common use code cricket to get ten percent off any purchase of three hundred and ninety nine dollars or more that's I n d, o c h. I n o dot com, promo code cricket, pod, save america is brought you by brooklyn and get the rescue serve with help from our friends at brooklyn and they make luxurious home essentials and for a limited time you can save on all things comfort during their president's day, sale, brooklyn sources, only the best materials for their products, so you can drift off without a care that sounds nice nice. I love to drift off without a care yeah. This is one of their products. The fuckin mallet The bottle is an example of the heat with those high quality materials comes cosiness, and now we have it in their cars in a kind of these days. So investments in your space last get the comfort that, over a hundred thousand

happy customers are raving about with five star reviews in areas. I was cosy too, like noon products, products like brooklands debate covers and comforters are just a couple fan. Favorites comforters of the clouds are found nation for a dream bed, while their debate covers or the easiest way to refresh your bedrooms, look looking to level up your home upgrade to spaces at once with brooklands customizable bed in bath, bundles saving, time and money. I get a lot of brooklyn products on our anger, but at the sheets. Oh I'm glad this out is happening because I'm currently wearing brooklands weapons, and I meant to make a mental note. I love brooklyn. I sweat paths that I love brooklyn and swept pants alert. They are it's. I am a huge fan of brooklyn in sweatpants they crush. Thank you. I buy. I put them on almost every night when I'm, when I bought them for family members for christmas, there they're really comfortable in a tummy. If you stop caring a little bit more, you can also wear them to work thank you while, ok, ok,

don't sleep on savings brooklyn, its president. They sale is happening now listening The sale get the deals of your dreams at brooklyn and com with promo. Cricket, that's be our o, o k, l, I any and dot com, slash cricket Alright, we should talk a little bit more about Biden's secret trip to heave this week. Give keith luck. I listen to protect the world this week and tommy and Ben still haven't landed on how to pronounce it. So let me guess just beds a cave in time. He says gif note to I forget what time he was saying, but Ben Ben was criticizing him for not being able to have the full the the the correct slot. like swore? I I work in the white house when russia invaded crimea and we had a lot, we got corrected a lot on the keys kiev thing by people who weren't who worked with Ben I'll. Tell you that Biden went to the capital of ukraine, which you say that so Tommy had been also covered.

well the background and secret planning involved in a presidential trip to a war zone on this week positive the world. He should definitely go check that out great episode. That leaves us free to break down the politics, like the hacks that are are just know, thyself know thyself its own. A few republicans like lindsey gram, praised binds visit, but most of the mega establishment has used Why ukraine, not ohio, talking points, or they said something similar like this I think I and many americans are thinking. Do ourselves. Ok is very concerned about those borders. Halfway around the world, he's not done anything secure our own border. Here at home, we ve had millions and millions of people poor in tens of thousands of americans dead because offence at all, and then course, we just suffered a national humiliation of having china fly a spy balloon clear across the continental united states.

that annoying voice. You heard, as, of course, our rhonda santos you'll be hearing a lot more that annoying the voice over the next year. Of course, how and forget how embarrassed we were by the balloon before before we get to him, what did you think of Biden's trip to ukraine and in his speech in poland afterwards, I thought the speech was incredibly powerful. The visuals were important and the message was important: it was, strong. I think it went a long way to not just helping build support in I find that country around. They sacrifice Is that we are going to make on behalf of the ukrainians, but this upcoming? battle in congress over funding for ukraine, and so I thought it was from like nerdy logistics perspective. I went on to trips, obama to Afghanistan and the you pull that off. It was always so but this is ten acts more complicated than that we remain.

Were the? U S has a military presence. We had basis, they done at several presidents of two presence at done it. There was a pattern to what this is something tat we knew involves like eighteen hours, on a train it just truly a be brave and bold decision. think no one would have really criticized Biden for not going beyond its incredibly dangerous. The trump never went, I think. Maybe you once wrote to a war zone by just at a very, very impressive, from the white house, and for the president I mean it's a baldy thing for any one to do, flying in the middle of the night on a smaller or force plain and then taking the very long train ride in in the middle of a war zone. Where there's? No? U s military protection. Let alone an eighty year old president, so like I, I also it's hard to argue the guy's, not up for the job. When he's doing shit like that.

Except let's see some of these other assholes- do that that was that was. It was very impressive, which I'm sure was part of the thinking that went into this sure is part of it and yeah it looked. It looked really great and then you have like- and I think you pointed this out- the message box and you've got. You know that jack off santos on television. Looking like a goon development of what has split screen Biden is travelling by trade into a war zone to meet with an incredibly brave leader fighting the russians. And ran his aunt is doing interview on presents day with pete. Do see. Em. Look, I think, to the speech. You know he every time that Biden gets to hammer home his message about democracy versus autocracy, freedom versus

tyranny, which happens now to be both a national and an international method? What a world leaf just replace putin with the santas and you've got the same speech was well, but it's like you know. It's Biden has a consistent message and he has, since you know basically the twenty twenty campaign about this, and so it was a. It was a good. You know he I think he did it really powerfully. I mean he made the argument that the appetites of an autocrat cannot be appeased. They must be opposed again, something we're doing abroad and at home thought that was great, so twitter's, favorite nate. I dropped this take in response to de santis. His comments quote: granted. Voters don't care about foreign policy that much mm, but the urging geo peace stance on russia. Ukraine is likely to be unpopular with swing voters and is giving democrats of free wedge issue where they'll be on the right side of public opinion in twenty twenty four.

A shot at the world, those there? How dare seriously it's? Why that's why they ate need so much work predominates right. That's the nato referring to about that is twitters favorite NATO's. I think that's for We're really nice guys around here, but you get your boy, I'm yemen, congo eliminate needs anyway? Now nerdy, I mean for you to say, and indeed I don't have just like twitter joke from five years ago. What do you think of me its overall take about the politics of this? I think he is technically correct. If you look at the polls, right now, there is a majority support for what president Biden is doing in terms of sending weapons in terms of economic aid and financial support in terms of that's any: u s, troops like the people to support the? U S, policy in what is happening there and they get. It fair to say that there is pulling that shows that patients is not infinite,

there was a chicago council and global affairs pole from couple months ago that has been tracking the question are you in favour of? U s support as far as long as it takes Last summer, the numbers fifty eight percent, this most recent poll it forty eight percent, so there is some erosion there are people think we should do is forever, but by an is clearly on the political high side issue now, the question is: when people actually vote, we is a hundred miles from now, a hundred years from now on, Can change on issues of u s involvement abroad quickly. Then what how if, if things, change on the run brain, but also, if they change on the ground. Here you know it we want a face: a recession, people's support for sending money to ukraine. Could change pretty quickly the other quite more important question I think, is it is if this It is or tromp or any one else who has its positions, republican nominee and the faster. If he will disagree with it,

are they going to disagree with it, but care about it enough that it influences their actual decision right? There are things you support and oppose, and there are things that influence your vote, and I am skeptical that this would influence people's vote yeah. But again, I I agree with what you said it it it's totally dependent on what the situation on the ground is over the next year or so right both like is there a recession here? What happens if Putin starts winning? What happens if putin escalates the war to other countries and the? U s and nato feel like we have. To

delayed our support for ukraine as well like these are all wild cards, and I think you know you talked about who the republican nominee is. I think, where trump and now de santis and unlikely the rest of the field are on ukraine, and they are there, because the maga base bases there that's going to ensure that we will have a year of a heavily covered republican primary, where all the candidates are going to be ginning up nativism and isolationism and spreading disinformation about the war. And you know you wonder what kind of effect that will have on public opinion, along with the possibility that conditions here or abroad could change I do think like the easiest. Cheapest politics in the world is to say: let's stop spend it. Let's stop sending money to foreigners in and help our people instead, you know. That's, like I tried and true easy political gimmick inside not one underestimated.

How many speeches did you write for John Kerry about building firehouse is here and not in, but I got here it's so many lot times. He said that, and it was the highest testing line of Do you think he said in his don't be? It speaks of the limits of that right, because that was an election which foreign policy was the number one issue, most voters and even then not adolescent translation of race just some perspective on why the scientist took this position, so He bs in you guys do this for the interesting thing in their pulling where they they isolate, publicans who self identify with a mega movement and they compare what magyar republicans thank with regular publicans and so in january, they asked in the report want your representative to support funding for ukraine, yes or no, all republicans forty eight percent mag republicans. Third,

percent right? So and what is in it? If, lest you think that rope, I can lose it lest, you think in the same progress much earlier said, lest you think, but but even this to us or asleep, the the maghreb humming as are not a faction of the robber, the party, distantly over the year in which CBS has been doing this self identify mag republicans make up half of republicans This is not so you have two thirds reverse the matter to them. of one half a republicans, do not want their member countries to say money to ukraine, and those are the people around us. Answers is probably correctly. Betting more are more more likely to vote in primary is more likely to die.

Input, two primary candidates, more likely to attend rallies and that's where the energy is so that's where he is appealing. Even if I don't think ron santa says any like hard well thought out views on ukraine he's just going where he sees the political winds blowing, which is one skill that he appears to be better at than most republicans is figuring out where the energy in the party is going to be five minutes from now and getting there in four minutes yeah, and I mean I think, all the other candidates will probably do the staffing too. I'm sure I'm sure Nikki Haley has a whole bunch of statements, she's a you- know a russia hockin support of ukraine but, like I'm sure, she'll full, just like the santa's not ride. Nicky now cannot make an unfair letter. Unfair had palm pale will be their password, then I'll, be there the lobby their, which brings us to the next topic. You know what impact dynamic here. Is that what's happening in there

publican primary on Ukraine is happening on most issues and which is that everyone's trying to out trump trump. This is especially true on issues of race, gender and sexual orientation. Nikki haley billing herself, as the future of the republican party, just said this about RON de santis, says: don't say gay bill which banned Teachers from giving classroom instruction on sexual orientation or gender identity through the third grade. Quote I'm sorry. I dont think that goes far enough. When I was in school, you didn't have sex that until seventh grade my pants in court, trying to force, I was schools to out transgender students. Glenn young can is calling for a review of virginias ap african american studies curriculum taken a page on the descent. Play book in trump himself, is going further than then he ever did in twenty sixteen twenty twenty, posing a nation wide ban on gender, affirming care to minors and a federal law recognising only two genders:

party, all about limited government, personal freedom. So, to me this seems like a path that will make them all less elected. A general election but far more dangerous. If they still managed to win. What do you think? I think it makes them far more dangerous, even if they don't want And I think it is important to at least acknowledge that we are about to head down- I at least your law bidding war of bigotry and raising the level of rhetoric, and that is gonna have consequences, is deeply dangerous for get eligibility, q plus community forward trans people in particular we ve already seen both in two thousand and sixteen anti, though Twenty, where the rehder coming out a republican politicians is translated into real world violence and that it is It is a dangerous dynamic that is happening. And even if a candidate who

who is on, who is mildly, less dangerous in the most dangerous. If he's dangerous people gets elected, there, probably gonna put in place a dangerous policies just as Glenn yankee and is doing right, Donald trump, who even try to portray himself kind of in as a west. culture warrior on some of these issues, then when it and did all the terrible things when you got there right, it is having the is dangerous. Now the question is: is it going to make them unelectable. we have no idea what may potentially make them less electable work, would give Democrats not an opportunity but us or of an imperative, to you re use the mega extremism method, from twenty to twenty two that was so effective, absolutely like it is, but if we don't onto this primary will take place in war Would she place inside a hermetically sealed right wing news bubble and people who don't pay attention to politics full time who are gonna, pay, no attention republican?

mary who will decide that twenty twenty four election will only how about these things? If we tell them yeah and we're talking about the right, we can primary right now, but there's hundreds and hundreds of bills that have been introduced and laws that have been passed in mostly red states or purple states throughout the country that have targeted algae boutique. You, kids, trans kids, trying to you no ban certain books try to prevent kids from learning about history, the history of a race in this country. So it's already happening, and I think it I think the question is your right leg. It's it's Democrats and we have to figure out a way to respond as we can. We shouldn't avoid the argument. We have to figure out a way to win the argument, and I think it's true that some of the polling on these issues, especially Identity is not where a lot of us would like it to be, but again way to deal with. That is not to avoid the arguments to win it. I think trump into

it is in a lot of these maggie media assholes they want to get in a fight over cherry picked examples of this one book or this one athlete, or this one teacher and I think democratic and take the bay. I think we should approach the issue like we did abortion and twenty twenty two, and you know point out that magda politicians, do not get to make decisions about what our children learn, who they love, who they become and what kind of health care they need. They don't get to tell our kids that they're not as worthy of love or respect a protection under the law as other kids just because who they are makes some other people angrier uncomfortable and that's it. That's just like pure end of story, and that I think you carry that message everywhere and then you dont get down into the weeds with them about all the individual fights they want to pick in this school district or that one, and I think, that's a powerful enough message that that it will marginalize the republican extremism and make democrats the party that

sort of willing to listen to parents and kids. I seen a lot of pulling on these issues, including the issues around gender identity, and there are some poles of a really hard for democrats or others of the terrible for republicans in it is over. We are aiming how those issues are discussed and that in the framing, so I'm and that's why we have to engage and engage aggressively, because if we do not, we are gonna write. This will be debate, On the cherry pick examples they have on the distortions on the lies on the conspiracy theories and This is something we said way back in the trunk which is we do not get in a world in which they rightly if one exists, where you have social media companies like facebook that push these cultural issues to the forefront, we don't get to decide which fights to have that. We don't get to say which fights happen. We just have to figure how to win those. And this is one of those guys. It adds that just a political imperative. It's a moral imperative in this case too, because if we don't fight back, no one's gonna fight back in that

That is, I think, a message for everyone. From top to bottom, you gonna hear a bunch of pulsars and consulted say while people, inflation they coming. That's all truman you're not to put this in context in there. versions of the race narrative messaging, that we ve talked about many many times over the last twenty years on. This then apply here too, which is republicans, are our lying. There are trying to scare people, they are device when people they are picking on kids and when they're doing it for a reason, and what is that reason and who benefits and that's a sort of messaging narrative that we need We just talked about it around the railroad issue. You know if it works in both cases. This is what you know. I'm not but not shrink or has been here a lot heather maggie. I've done a lot of research into this, and it happens to be the morally correct thing to do, or else happens to be the most politically effective thing to do is to

just call out the bullshit mallory mcmorrow state senator from Michigan, was on this podcast last week. She was doing a version of it too. That's why her speech went viral a a ways back right like this. We should not feel defensive about this. There is a way to talk about that is, that is aligned with our values and also is going to appeal to the broadest possible audience of people and what it does is it marginalize the extremists and the folks on our side, an folks in the middle you know will agree with the with this framework. So another publican who may be joining the field is south carolina centre. Tim Scott he's in iowa this week and according to political quote, has a belief that perhaps the americans are similarly disgusted with the tenor of today's politics and want a candidate who will restore so village the red

when you read her stability alert paging, trapped on pages job Todd do borneo, ronald reagan. You are needed with bourbon in the west, we read her and red and I'm sorry reside. I just I didn't need to do that, but I mean one of my favorite traceability was right there that one of the things that have that I really enjoyed in the last twitter, so is when before But if the ruse to co on a secret trip to the capital of ukraine, by an attended, a restaurant, a dinner at a restaurant named redhead. excellent restaurant in DC, which caused tommy is worse. You hear their tubes he got a little too tommy. Now they read incidents of two thousand and whatever you're that was, was at a different read him.

It pointed out a ruin tommy's pointing out to him on tanker. I thought it was so nice. He did it privately. On text like from friend to friend I just like. Actually him on twitter here. Actually them that's. That's that's a kind of hiv aids, especially that sort of accountability he brings as appended another vote. he's right hand, obsession is their room. four candidate in this republican primary, who wants to focus on civility instead of fighting the culture. Worse, maybe. Data. The answer you were expecting was that I say I'm going to say I'm going to a big no on this one I mean. Obviously that is not where the energy is, and it is true as nato and our favorite nate pointed out in his new york times news only the other day, candid to start with Twenty percent in an early holes are the ones who, almost always when rights

fact that is are we have, as you look at, that it means that the overwhelming, like that is either rhonda, santas or donald trump will be their public and dominate. But I want ring a tiny modicum of humility to this, because the weather or republican primary works, does allow a possibility for someone to sneak up the middle and get momentum very quickly, because, unlike the democratic contest republican contests are winner takes all So there is a situation where you could win and malta candidate field with a pretty be the overall majority. Republicans do not want civility, but the the the pro So people are divided amongst the nine assholes and the very small sliver civility people. a wind behind the one civility candidate and that person could win primaries and take all the targets. Is that likely to happen? Absolutely not likely? Is it for People know. Could it happen forgotten

How do I make predictions? Absolutely not yeah. I think that two euro to the polling you cited about ukraine, like the maga base in the republican party, is either behind trump or is a rare I am curious and then I think- and I think those are largely non college- educated voters desserts as that that's the base of the republican party right now that's trump's base. Then I think there's a set of college educated republicans, who are smaller portion of the party, and they are mostly done with trump is probably still form if he's denominated, the absolute below one hundred percent, a hundred percent and looking at the santas. Maybe look at hayley looking at scott, maybe

some of these other, maybe looking at us a new new. If he gets in and though that group of people that they're gonna split their vote between all those candidates, but that's a small segment of the republican party- and I just don't know how, tim scott sort of or any one else, besides santa's breaks into the much larger. Secondly, the republican party, which is the mega base, especially if your brand is like sunny republican up. Must I don't know I don't know. Maybe may I could be wrong just as it teaser here I recorded an episode of political experts, react brilliance. We will call belcher. Looking here. I've got because with tim's gotta boy he was impressive. I have today The coroner about it or who was upon is a democratic pulsar was one of a bombers pollsters, incredibly smart guy, and we we looked at dissent, is highly into

got sort of early for raising to present a minute. He has some really interesting thoughts about how Scott could possibly give himself a chance, so that'll be out next week that you should definitely watch them. As opposed to tommy's thing, but he does that is trying to use services will tears, but now I didn't. I tell you that at the practical, I was gonna have recorded, invited idea, atomic tommy's done to already know and invited yet you know like, as he once fucking views and you get fusion my bride, delicate and honesty, or video of you is a star what I want. I sit down a recorded, eliza What does it make sure that I knew that Tommy name check me in the recording of liberal tears, which I have not seen as I will not give him that free free view, because competition, but anyway What a corner I have to say about this. At a preview after you get free you've got to watch. You go the positive american youtube channel. You subscribe. If you haven't, and then you watch the video and you'll be smarter. given away the real europe before

It becomes an incompletely internal cricket conversation here, a couple, more points which has got one. I do think there I want to go on record as saying I do think he has a better chance than Nikki Haley. I think he. I think that, like look, I think of that massive republican convention in two thousand and twenty he gave the best speech of all of them. It's funny. I have a couple of people tweeted us after we talked about Nicky Hayley. Like I don't know, I saw her. That's when I sort of be scared of her in a general election is like oh yeah, that's not the point, key hayley was their republican army, if TIM, Scott, even more so Nikki haley was the republican nominee. I would be much more nervous about running against them. I think they'd be a much. I just don't see how they get through the primary in this party. That's that's! That's my biggest issue with them. But again I and also TIM Scott was on Kennedy as one does when one is testing the water, as one does enable even civility right yet and where Oh, so Hannity ass him as he did with Nicky Hayley. What are your policy differences with trump and TIM Scott said

probably not very many at all. I am so thankful that we had president trumpet office, so you can see or like where miss Mr civility, it's gotta be similar, tough like, oh you agree, you is that it was that you agree with child separation. you were you thankful that he was in office when he tried to and a riot to overturn the election is not something you were grateful for. Like you know, I don't others is gonna, really hold them. It's a it's! It's a tricky. What yet, as I say, it's a true here, it's a bit of a tricky were ok. When we come back ec. Scrutinise Leah lippman will join to talk to dan about the big test cases in front of the supreme court. this term, patsy america's brought by carrying the cool

annabelle sneaker brand, working to reinvent the sneaker game. Anyway, that's better for you and the plant spring times just around the corner, as we transition out of the winter season, were welcomed with warmer days to get outside and spend our time doing. What we love most when it comes to day is spent on your feet. Carry you got your covered with unmatched comfort, premium, quality and peace of mind, knowing their made solely with sustainably source material. everyone needs a staple paris sneakers to carry them for the season and beyond and aka, maybe just a shoes. Your wardrobe has been waiting for with over thirty three thousand five star reviews has all the makings of a cold favorite classic canvas in a low rise. even your favorite celebrities, love this versatile and crazy comfortable style where they are.

For an everyday, neutral or a statement print carry. You must get a pair for every personality, and some of these fan favorite colors are finally back in stock. After clearing a seventy seven thousand person waitlist making it the perfect time to pick up a pair, they even have limited edition collaborations, with brands like avatar the peanuts and pantone so make sure to check them out what color print. Are you guys rocking at the moment? It says I love them. You know rose pink colors. I, like the blush pink, I mean whatever the pink. Those are good pink. I choose pink. I got a great pair that I like If you are wearing the black one, the other day to leverage cause again, I'm also wearing ones carry him. I also has a dedicated reforestation program based in the brazilian rainforest, their co founders, David and fernando both grew up in Brazil, so this product is especially close to home for every pair of sneakers sold carry him a plants, two trees and they've already planted over two mil

in trees to date and for a limited time, five save america can get exclusive. Fifteen percent off your pair of carrying you sneakers go to Are you and they d come such cricket to get fifteen percent off? That sea Are you a maid outcomes of credit for fifteen percent off only for a limited time, pots of amerika sponsored by better help when you're at your best, you can do great things. Sometimes life gets bogged down and you may feel overwhelmed or, like you not shown up. The way that you want to working with therapists can help you get closer to the best version of you. We all have via what a self care right. We practise self care doom scrolling, that's my yet doom skull I snack at night. I we rebranded eating a whole container, vice green itself care freight, a great job, if you're thinking of giving be a try. Better help is a great option. Its kid revient, flexible, affordable entirely o mine just fill out a brief question to get match with the lessons. Therapist switch therapists at any time for no additional charge. Take what the benefits of therapy in your own

watching forms of survivors softer therapies got. There is good. You talk to someone, you leave europe. You usually always feel better yeah, some as soon as you feel worse on the road to getting better. That's right, you know not at you'll, never have to So what do you know about eight or I'd? None? I think about this very unlucky synergies, airbus, as when it gets quietly the sometimes possession, and then you say I gotta- go. If you want to have a more empowered life therapy can get you, there was a better helped our complex, Pia say today to get ten percent off your first month. That's better help, h e lp, dot com, slash p s a this week the supreme court heard oral arguments in two cases could change the rules for online speech joining us, you break it. All down is leah lifted from crickets legal pot, gas. Strict scrutiny leah welcome back to the pot. For having me what they are doing this in the northern ice storm. That is a very generous way to spend your time during the period

a change natural disaster that you will be dealing with, I'm having a common, work as long as the internet is allowed to continue to exist so every day. That's so I wanted to have you on today for two reasons: first, everyone loves a strict scrutiny, positive mercosur websites. I've got to get the people they want. to these cases before this report, both obviously have very high stakes, but there also, I think, a good gateway to help people understand the contours of the big tat policy discussions that are happening, sort of fear mongering from the right about. no banning and censorship and legitimate concerns, not just from the left, but for every one about the role of social media plays in the spreading of disinformation. Election suppression, hate speech, incitement to violence of all of that is, if we could possibly start with her in people understand what is at stake. Perhaps in this the guns

case might be the one to start with what is at stake there, what that's cases about and how it impacts. This thing called section two. Thirty we hear about all the time. yeah. Absolutely so Gonzalez is the case about section two thirty, which is the big provision in a law known as the communications decency act of ninety ninety six and basically that law limits. Your ability to sue interactive computer service providers that host other content like twitter facebook Google, you to all of that stuff. It limits euro billy It is to those things. Fourth, contact provided by other people that is limit your ability to google, when some idiot, like ted crews, like put something up on google and answer, the question in the case is basically well under what circumstances? If any, can you sue, Google and these other

But is for some of the content that put up by third parties if Google and these other companies are maybe doing some things with that content like recommending it to you, you know, after you finish, what one cat video you to give up another and are making a recommendation to you and so you're no longer at the plaintiff say suing companies, just because of the cat videos you're, suing the companies because they are recommending those cat videos to you. You know they ve come up with these algorithms that the play to say you know, are the companies own content, and so that's why the point of saying there able to sue the companies here? and this is really about like the future of the internet, because of course now the internet works based on these algorithms. You know how is tik tok supposed to work unless it knows what videos to recommend to you next or how're search engines opposed to work unless a search engines can return search results that are, you know, cuba,

for you, based on the algorithms recommendations about which search results, you're supposed alike, and so these cases are really about. You know when, if ever can these companies can be? about what limitations you know they will place on companies that ill at ease to kind of curing the content, that's on their sites. I think the most important part of your explanation right there about such a do. Thirty is based. Use of the term nineteen? Ninety six to ascribe when, when that law was written robbers, he talking about a very different internet, this basic internet, the world where we are. Where would I think, if I understand correctly and by understand I made for having listened to the most recent up, a strict grid that's what they were really referred trained to do with that law, the internet they were thinking about was when a well or prodigy, was providing people access to the internet and the people were, you know either creating it it website or posting on message board. So if you posted on a message board

something why bless about me. I could not. I could see you, but I could not sue aol or prodigy or whatever else is that correct, yet exactly right and what the law was trying to do was say. While if those companies take down some of the defamatory content but leave up, others were still not going to treat the company's ass, a publisher or speaker of the content that they missed and just left But now it's different is it's not just that the platforms are no longer passive right there, actually specifically showing people and based on the data that they have. accumulated in highly targeted ways for the purpose of profit right. So now they are act. it's a! What is that woody based on briefs in this case the the the hearings couple of days. Where do you I think this is going is the rope, Are we adjust binary situation words either status quo.

or the internet ends tomorrow, or is there something in the middle that can be resolved your or they gonna kick this to congress. I think there's definitely some things in the net, although where they could leave some possibility for suing the social media companies under some circles. says, although I dont think they're going to say you can sue them here. Just based on you know the recommendation of a next video based on an algorithm that NATO picks up certain information about you or certain behavior. You know that you'd engaged in on the internet. I don't they figure and say that's enough to allow you to pierce these companies immunity, but I think you heard some real hesitation on the part of the says that about their ability to figure. when you could sue these companies and are you had just taken saying it's not like worthy nine greatest experts on the internet ear, so maybe We should allow someone else to try and pick and choose. You know what cases you can see these social media companies, in which cases you can't, but I also think

you're right that this law that the court is trying to paris and figure You know when it allows you to see companies and when it doesn't, it was written in ninety. Ninety six, before these algorithms, we're so endemic to the waves companies did business before they were actively pulling information about people. You that, as proprietary information to generate algorithms to recommend additional content and then sell information about you to other companies, and that wasn't the backdrop against which this law was written. and I think in an ideal world the justices with like congress to write a new law that tried to sort between different algorithms and different conduct that these companies engaged in do you think that there? I know that with the supreme court we rarely it rarely makes sense to contemplate, quote unquote, ideal outcomes, but do you think, is there an ideal outcome that you would like to see from these cases? I think an ideal outcome would be

the smallest decision possible that just says as little as the court can. So they just say you know, based on bees, allegations which are basically like. You can see a thumbnail for the next video that youtube use up for you. That's not enough to say that you tube is recommending kind, hand and generating all these algorithms that are recommending isis content to people based on. You know, behavioral analogues that the company should be responsible for, but maybe in our case, where you obtain other information about how the algorithm works or the company is taking more active steps. Are you say there taking more active steps to recommend this content, and maybe you can sue them there, and I think that that would probably be the best outcome for the court to say as little as possible partially because its clear they don't actually understand how any of this do works and in the second case, justice thomas brought up agers- and I do pages- have not been here for a while. The

between if you ever watch a senate hearing on issues this use. You come away. motion that we rode a whole that we really want congress. Involve these all these problems, then our standard then why he was interested. In the court hearing and you're like really don't want to see fruit, but we're we're running out of branches pretty fast to deal with us just to put a finer point, just sort of on this house strong. Is these section two thirty, why ability shield, Could someone, theoretically under the current law, in getting into these cases like if you were to find out that. A platform knowing we allowed misinformation or libels information or dangerous information to circulate or be problem what else? Could they be sued civilly? Are they as protected as the gun manufacturers just sort of it's? It feels like a lot of people both on the left and the right. These companies just operate without any fear of.

any legal repercussion, and so just trying to understand exactly- and you know what this you know, how much protection they have in and in what congress potentially do to change that they have a ton of protection right now, based on how courts have interpreted. The law and basically courts have said if you are suing these companies based on anything. on their websites section to thirty or that claim- and I think the plaintiffs are right- that that goes too far, and you heard some real scepticism by a pretty a wide array of justices, so justice taken justice, jackson also just thomas and the chief justice were all prettiest it is about the prospect that you couldn't to accompany if a company, let's say intentionally, wrote an algorithm that would recommend you know discriminatory content or that would discriminate against certain people know. The justices didn't seem to think that section, two thirty properly interpreted would bar that lawsuit.

but they have no idea where exactly to draw the line between when you can sue accompany and when you can't, but it's absolutely the case that this immunity is extremely far reaching today, probably too much so, but also that courts don't know exactly how to cut back on it. The state of Texas passed a law recently there would have real. Why What, if these company, under the idea that their operating in the quota for the state of texas in terms of Siena censorship, shouted it's or it's a huge like hodgepodge of right wing, mad lids by that core there, Cases also, theoretically winding its way, eventually supreme court is that correct

yes, so that's a net choice case coming out of the fifth circuit at the texas law. There's also a similar case arising from a florida law. That's another kind of mad libs of conservative grievance, but the supreme court wouldn't hear those cases until next term, and I actually think it's too bad that the court is potentially hearing those two cases in different terms, because at their core they're kind of about whether under the law, government entities or private entities can treat the social media companies as publishers or speakers all the content on their website near the ford in texas law, says you're responsible for you know the content on your website and therefore, like you, can't moderate any of it, whereas the federal law section two thirty says no, you and moderate it and still not be treated as the publisher or speaker of the remaining content on your website switching gears here we have all when talking and waiting to hear wants him to come out of the special grand jury and fulton county. We got a raven

slow down the podcast last that parts of america podcast last week's just so we can hear what was going to come out in the report. The report basically told us That then changed over the last forty eight hours or so when the four woman of that special grand jury became doing immediate or add he's been in a political political play, but this morning says is true: did this person just help trump get off? There's word that the the trump side is going to try to use this as a way to get out of any indictment that may come. She had. This four person has not told us. The terms be indicted by has imply that that, with that that recommendation came forward, help us understand? what rules are apply here? Did did this woman break the rules? If she did break the rules? Is that mean trump's going to get out of jail again like what what what is going on here? So she definitely

broke norms around confidentiality of these entangle arms zones, where a horizontal twenty fifty, yes tat s door. Well, we still sometimes norms become rules and norms are treated as the law, and here I can imagine you know the trumpet ministration, not trumpet distraction gosh. Speaking about the way things used to be. You know that the term kept saying well look by basically insinuating before the allegations became public, that there was going to be an indictment against tromp, she's kind of poison, the well and interfered with the possibility of a fair jury trial under the sixth amendment and other potential constitutional guarantees, like general principles of fairness under the due process clause again, because your kind of polluting, the Oh and before you know the facts actually are coming out now. Do I think that's necessarily in claim. No, but I think actually pretty bad to have. You know people served on the grand jury.

Steadily leaking information about what is going on in the grand jury. Before any of that becomes a formal legal process I mean you can imagine differ situation where, for example, a grand jury recommended an indictment for someone Maybe their deliberations were influenced by invidious forms of discrimination on the basis of race or saxon, a prosecutor said you know what I'm actually not gonna go forward with the indictment, because I concluded that the grand jury proceedings were so flawed, but before they make that decision you have People on the grand jury leaking that. Oh, we chose to indict that person. You know that could be really bad and and- and I I wish this- this wouldn't have happened, and I don't think it would make any resulting indictments invalid, but but I don't love to see it Does it matter that this is not the great she had not the four person of the grand jury that would actually deliver the indictments that this was a special grand jury that was made

recommendations to the prosecutors and then, as I understand it, the fault county dossier will then try to seek an indictment from a separately and paneled regular rynch areas. I correct so it could affect their analysis and on illegal claimed that camp may aid. In that it seems to further remove you know any possible influence this person had over, whether an indictment was ultimately issued and whether an indictment was ultimately sought, but I don't think it affects a substance other clean that this person has kind of points. The well and influence the proceedings in a way that should give us pause. You know if it happened in other cases and could the could the could the woman herself face any sort of legal consequences for having done this? Are their criminal penalties for this? well. I am not familiar with all of the criminal laws in the state of georgia. It turns out. Criminal law is actually pretty vast. I think it's also. You know

a little unfortunate that too often you, the criminal penalties, end up being faced by people who try challenge those in power and fry to adverse criminal consequences on on the more powerful. And so when he's shocked. If we start to see suggestions that this person could face unison, forms a civil war, criminal liability for preaching in a world of confidentiality around the grand jury proceedings. But I haven't yet seen any exact claims about the sort of liability she may be facing real Thank you so much for joining us. It's always ready to talk to you and hopefully you have when the internet still exist in some more accountable form. The next time we speak wealthy. What family ties or thankfully eleven for joining us today. Everyone have a fantastic weakened and we will see that we by everyone

pod save america is a crooked media production. The executive producer is Michael Martinez, our senior producer Andy gardener. Bernstein are produced. Are hailing use in bolivia, martinez, its mixed in edited by andrew chadwick. I'll segment and charlotte Linda sound engineered the shell. Thanks to helsinki for irish works sandy. Eighty tat injustice: how for production support into our digital team, illogical, Phoebe Bradford, milo camp and Amelia monday. Our episodes are up as videos at you dot com such pod, save america.