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I found out to get free rides on a billion airs private jet, whose hedge fund he later ruled in favour of. Then Siemens jake tapir, stopped by the studio to talk to tommy loved me about trump cnn fox and his new novel. All the demons are here. First few quick housekeeping notes: crickets award winning podcast this land is back with a bonus. Episode could be out this friday, the delved into the recent surprisingly good supreme court ruling on the indian child welfare act. Hosts Rebecca Nagel, discusses this pivotal court case in most have season two of this land, which reveals how the far right is trying to use native children to chip away at american indian tribes in there

aren t rights in this case they failed, which is great, and you can find out why this friday, on this land, wherever you get your pod cas, also reminder that crooked media reads. First ever book mobility by lydia kissing is available right now for pre order, a vulture included mobility on its fourteen books. We can't wait to read this summer list. I had two cricket dot com, slash mobility to priority or copy today and be the first to read when its released on august.

first. Ah, finally, quick thank you to all the votive america volunteers who made nearly one thousand voter contacts to help defeat anti abortion virginia state senator Joe morrissey in tuesday's primaries democrats currently hold a slim majority in the senate, while republicans have the majority in the house of delegates. If republicans win both chambers of the legislature this november, these are off year's elections. Glen young kin is expected to pass new abortion restrictions in virginia bills, discriminating against lgbtq, plus youth, rollbacks of voting rights and, more so everyone's going to get involved in Virginia. For this november had devoted of america dot com, slash virginia to help out today,

I then lots and used to catch up on the republican presidential front. Runner got himself a court date to stand trial for thirty seven felony counts of violating the espionage act and obstructing justice its august fourteenth of this year. Just a week before the first republican primary debate, the donald trump is threatening to skip, though we should note that most legal experts expect judge can into move the date back due in part to complications that come with any case about highly classified secrets. Cnn has the first post indictment pole to show the trumps support among republican voters has declined in the last month. Forty seven percent say Their first choice for president, which is down from fifty three percent in cnn pole and may his favour ability rating among republican voters, has gone from seventy seven percent to sixty seven percent and now about a quarter of republican voters say they won't vote for him under any circumstances. That's up

Few percentage points from their last poll. Trump is navigating these legal and political challenges like any careful criminal defendant would, by going on tv to confess his crimes. Here's a clip from trump's two part interview with fox is Brett bair, I had a boxes. I want to go through the boxes and get all my personal things out. I do want to hand over the canary yet, and I was busy, as you ve sort of seen, but a corner unanimous view, then tell this aid to move to other locations after tat, your lawyers to say you'd, fully complied with a subpoena when you hadn't, but before I send boxes over. I have to take all of my things. These boxes. interspersed with all sorts of things: gulf shirts, clothing,

in the pants shoes. There were many things I would say were much much more, not that I know of, but not that I know of around warplanes, not that I know of not that I know, but the golf shirts were in there. You can't look, I I realize the government sends out subpoenas sometimes, but you don't have to cooperate with law enforcement. If you I have a box with your golf shirt in there. Everyone knows that it's a notable exception to the law, the cultural exception. Before we get to the political damage this interview may have caused trump. Let's say with the you'll damage you think Jack Psmith might want to show jurors this clip of our trump admitting that he personally went through the boxes and held onto classified secrets in defiance of a federal subpoena, even judging this on the scale of abject champion idiocy. This is a fact astounding club, it's astounding he admits to the crime with excuses. You pointed out

that his gulf shirts had not per head up inside. in time and therefore he refused to abide. Sabena and then, when breadwinners forgets less attention. But then, when bread bear A says that, according to the indictment he told his aids to hide the boxes and then why they apply about. He does not deny it. He justice nerves, he had to do that because the gulf shirts and the pants and the shoes were so with them to its is. While it is just I love it. It's great threat, do more, do more, I mean I mean they were his favorite culture. It's not like it's interesting cause. His defence is basically, I had every right to keep classified information as a private citizen, even though he's on tape admitting that he didn't declassify

when he was president and by the way I don't have to cooperate with law enforcement, because I'm donald trump, that's it that's. His defence is also interesting that he seems to be he's basically seas. We tried to do his own defence and convince potential jurors in the court of public opinion like it seems like his legal strategy is to just you know you do as many interviews as possible and convince many potential, jurors and south florida that this is all bullshit and he's going to do his own he's going to do his own defense and he's going to do it on tv and honestly like who knows it might work, I think the usa, words strategy. There is a lot well we're on our way whether he stumbled into it or not. It is I mean if you we want to take like one serious take away from this. Is he try

Well, he does not believe the law applies to him. Yeah I mean that's yeah. He I mean he thinks that the law politics government there just it's something to be gamed like everything else like business right. He can just kind of bullshit his way through it con his way through it and and it doesn't and today that's for the very effective strategy, because people who follow the law, people who think that the rules apply to them their suckers. You that's that's his that's his whole deal, so trumps had plenty of politically damaging things as well. In this interview, here's a sample. Your vice president, my classes running against your ambassador to the united nations Nicky Hayley she's run. I guess you, your former sector, restate my company said, he's not supporting you

imagine national security adviser John Bolton he's not supporting you either you mentioned attorney general bill. Barr says you shouldn't be president again, I called you a consummate narcissist and troubled man. You recently called and bar a gutless pig. Second, defence sector is not supporting. You called you you're responsible Sweet you and your white house called you. Why does she must have John Kelly? We an ineffective and born with a very small brain? You call me. Acting whitehouse, shiva staff, nipple vainly a born loser. You called your first secretary, say rex, dumb as iraq, and you defence sector james matters, the world's most overrated general. You called your white house prussic turkey than any milk toast and multiple times you refer to you, transportation, secretarial, lane chow. As me, mcdonald, china, loving wife, so Why does you hire all of them in the first place, because I hired ten to one that were fantastic in your mind? Did the code, Maxie work

such an interesting question, because not only that I also did the regeneration of the world. You know the whole. We did action mendous job on that, but we have. What vaccine. Now you have different? You have different coverage, he had covered nineteen and then you have different drivers, but we are. The original was covert, nineteen, which was the roughest one. I said I really don't want to. talk about it because, as a republican, it's not a great thing to talk about, because for some reason it's just not some reason. We have for some reason, because people love the vaccines and people had the vaccines I focused on non violent crime as an example. a woman who you know very well. was in jail. She had twenty four more years to If she, sir, for twenty two years, your house just ass, she was in the several high quality. I am, I said how many years and she was telephone call and they were involved in selling marijuana mostly marijuana, and she got

like fifty years in jail but should be killed under your plan as a drug dealer, no, no, no under my own, under that it would depend on the severity, but would depend to understand that she's technically a former drug dealer she that she had A million dollar cocaine ran a dealer. So even our shots and another. He can do it, ok by the way. If, that was there you're she wouldn't be killed, would start. As of now sits there. The lot lot to unpack there. I mean we can do we honestly do it all day everyday for a month, just that interview alone, I mean my guess. My first question is: how do we get trump to do as many interviews as possible between now and when people start voting, because this is it for me, like I, don't I don't think people swing voters, whoever else I don't think they have voted against

trump, twenty, sixteen or twenty twenty, mainly because of what they heard about him or what other people said about him. They just listen to this listen to him or they read his tweets, which are now truths and they made up the mind, and this is why the more trump wants to talk the more wants to do interviews the more we want to put it on T v. I am completely fine with that, because you know all you have to do is ask him a few questions. Yeah, I mean we get into the bread bare of it. All in a minute, but, like I have to do, is ask him a few questions. They don't even have to be. That pointed, and he will just do that. what we just heard, no one does a better job of making a case against themselves and donald trump opening his mouth. It's also just what he says he so he honest about what a bull shit artist he is like when he was like, though, but the covert vaccines is again. You know I can't really talk about,

because the basis crazy and there a bunch and I've answers. I want a piss them off now my problem? That is most, I think, compelling political strength. I guess they yeah, he just. He said He doesn't like a politician when everything else and there is that students and was even if we have donald trump just says or the quiet poured out while that actually is the belief, therefore thing he says, and this sort of interviews, because it's like yeah, that sounds right in our when he said the other day he said all about why he feels different. Now we thought about something else goes He was president, then he's not now like that. Just how people think politicians are really thinking. It just says it about that, and that is mildly awful vary with the rest of it. That is a small silver lining. The very dark cloud of idiocy sprang on his interviews, yeah

it's like when he when he was asked about the first debate and skipping it is like. Why would I participate I'm ahead in the polls? You know everyone's, like oh yeah, that that seems. That seems right. No, but I think that the you know his proposal to give all drug dealers the death penalty. That wasn't that well thought out by donald trump and how it might how it might work with the first act, which he was. They were referencing there, which basically gave, I believe, clemency to certain nonviolent drug offenders. You don't really think that through and how it would work with the ah with the death penalty for drug dealers policy that he is now pushing, and I do think that that is like him getting caught up in that. I think that's a little that's problematic for him like cause he's gotta take one taking both sides of a position in the same sentence. That's tricky from here. He there has been reporting like who ever know.

Like what is real and trot reporting where there was a lot of very fan, fifty reporting after twenty twenty, that one of the reasons he blamed loss. Was the jared kirshner trick demented during the first up act, which I think the andreasen This is attacked him on it. As being soft on crime, and so he's here without through he went in to the secured all drug dealers, including non violent or deserves include the ones that you give clemency to as a way to over correct for that year, because he saw authoritarian do that, another kind is right in his eye. Oh yeah, they did that and then there is no crime its great I should we should do that. Perfect base will love that eight second question about this. Will you admit, though, you have been wrong about bread bare and that America's greatest newsman didn't deserve your typical knee jerk partisan attacks.

Well, John, I will say that I was prepared to come on this podcast and despite my law, history of calling out bread bears a partisan hack as a injustice a general well of rage and all the people in Washington DC who hold them up as the one good worker in the propaganda factory. A fox. I was gonna, come on this package and say job well done bread and then you would have and then I sent you the puppies yesterday I read an article of from park by dillon as with the headline brett summer filled with a bunch of democrats arguing about how amazing brent bear is holding is the paragon of journalism, and that was a bridge too far for me just ass. I can't do it. He did a good job He did. One good interview which I would state is his job. He is it. This is what he is supposed to do. and I will just say every Delmar

so excited about this talking about how this is how journalists embers covers. This is how we bring down trump go. Take a cold shower We do not need a republican savior like us hope, Why don't we? Why Democrats want that is like the likud project? We can prepare now probably start selling chris Christie march in the crickets door? Just slow down people He did what he did. A good job outcome, credit for that that does not. a race thirty years of being a propaganda beard for the racism for profit, three factors. You know it's just look, I know that you are just a partisan lib, resisting range, as you know, a resistance warrior air, and now I, like you, know how I feel about this evening. The debate

over whether we are praising or looking sceptically at republicans, conservative pundits, whoever who come around and decide the trump is in fact unfit for office. It is don't think that it's like necessary the debate as it like. Why did bread bear? Do one good? view. I don't know, maybe he felt maybe he felt some level of shame. After all, the dominion shit came out. Maybe he just wanted to, back in the good graces of his dc establishment, republican friends. Who knows who cares? He did the interview? That's great Chris Christie. Did he do a bunch of horrible things and up until twenty twenty yeah? Of course, now he's kicking the shit out of trump? That's awesome.

great? We don't need to give these people profile, encourage awards or even debate whether they should get them they're, just they're, just tools to help us defeat, Donald trump, which is what we're trying to do here: I think I I don't deserve without an. I also can't stand the debates about bill crystal these terrible things and now europe. We have a brief. lukewarm alliance with him to defeat donald trump over a temporary basis like that, I don't care about. He brought bear do some. Let's see if he really is going to try to pretend to be a real journalists for the next period, next summer, yours will say maybe changed. Mebby has answered, I'm not elected. Barbaric anything that given a bread, bear podcast on another on the crooked network. I'm not I'm not cast a vote for Chris Christie. You know, but like great they're out there

Initially, I didn't just volunteer to give Chris Christie ten dollars the other day to get a visa. That is different than voting for him. I'm going to put him on the debate stage. That's fair! I haven't done that yet, but I do think people should get Chris Christie on the debate stage that that is fucking. First of all, let's talk about the the political value in that yeah. Maybe it's limited maybe takes random. He doesn't think with the fuckin content value. She just be saying badges just be this conversation directly with Elijah life that last question about trump. I don't owe me too much of a single paul, but do you see any being in the overall trend that makes you think trumps. Political baggage might be catching up to him after you read that cnn pull I think there is very little evidence today that the indictment has dramatically impacted trumps chances of winning the nomination

that's an ample shows, maybe as a possible opening, but it still shows and beating brundusium despite twenty one point, which is a lot of points, are planned, the yahoo news poll out today, which shows that trump's approval rating of seventy nine percent, among republicans, which is unchanged from january, continues to hold a big lead in nopales. If you want to look for some possible signs of weakening those, also canopy actual out today, real pulp lose out here, but that show that seventy nine percent of republicans think that would be a serious problem. If someone showed classified information to someone who do not have a topsecret clare boy. Don't you get em wait till they re the indictment it's over. it could be that becomes on it is proven in court. Then. Yes, the bay, thing about trump and these poles I meant is I know they. We expect that the mere fact of the indictment is going to hurt trump. He is. On his terms that something like

and forty percent of republicans and in the yahoo paul thinks he should be prosecuted for these crimes. Mostly will then he didn't do very much wrong. It will be the full weight of all of the indictments and all of the images of him getting arrested, a re sitting at a defence table. Add up to change the elect ability equation for republicans. Maybe that will change Now he still. He's sitting pretty strong in their home. Can primary for a man just charge were thirty. Seven felony counts related to violations of the espionage act. I dont like this, but I would wager that voters hearing his interview with bread bear would judge him more harshly. For that, then they would hearing that binds d. O J is prosecuting donald trump,

republican voters, yeah yeah, like where I'm talking about republican voters, who have an open mind about who they're supporting in the primary or a there's. Obviously the maga fanbase, which is like lockdown at thirty five, forty percent of the republican party and but then we know, there's a bunch of voters who you know might end up with trump or but they're looking around, and I think for those voters again just more trump the better, Let's, let's hear straight from trump. I also think, what's notable in that cnn poll is what trump lost in favorability and support did not go to dissenters. Dissenters did not gain in that cnn poll. It sort of went to the and it's the the support kind of spread around different candidates in the field, which may might tend to tell you that you know. There's a bunch of candidates out there. Now voters and I'd love to see some iowa and new hampshire polls, but voter republican voters are now being exposed to other

it aids and campaigns and they're here from them. So you know it also might be a function of just the field is pretty full and people are looking around and you know that's that, but I think we're still on status quo territory. Right now, one more thing before we move on just this morning, a former texas representative will hurd announced he's running for president. he's now, probably the most moderate republican running any criticise trumpet his announcement. Video call him a lawless, selfish, failed politics, When you make a will heard candidacy, I think there's a wide lane within the republican party for people who find isa hutchinson too exciting. I will I'll tell ya, like

Will hurt I wish I I wish we lived in a country where we'll heard was like the the center of the republican party. I, like that said. I don't agree with, will hurt and a bunch of issues but like that would be that'd, be a good country. You know, but like that video hoof man was that boring, as the problem is like all of these other candidates that who are not donald trump and, to a lesser extent not randa santas. They need a theory of attention like how are you going to get attention for your candidacy, and you know the other one of the other anti trump candidates in the primary chris Christie he's got a theory is he gonna go out there and kick the shit out of trump? Even will herds attack on trump, which is like just him calling him? You know a lawless, selfish, failed politician even though he said it was just boring. You know, and citizens

quiet, boring video, I'm like dude, no one's who's, gonna who's going to pay attention to you. You gotta get some attention. I hope I don't get this wrong, but the if will hurt us republican nominee facing Biden, will be a contest between two candidates who have been on crooked media, podcasts, yeah maybe the same number of times, just want one shot. Yes, now that such Joe Biden has been an opposite market, twice, choice hook we'll virtuous work yet

I wish them all the best again. I want to want people to take down donald trump good for him for doing it. I think it's going to be like I said I think it's hard to get attention in that republican primary, if you're not going after donald trump or if you're, not donald trump, either like you have you seen that nikki haley and tim Scott have basically been spending a week attacking our old boss, Barack Obama, for something he said on axes podcast, which is an access podcast. He was asked about a tim scott m s, candidacy and, and also just basically, how obama reconciles his own hopeful rhetoric about this country and racial progress with you know the realities of of what we're living through and basically, obama said like people like not only people like TIM, scott nick

Haley, but even his own rhetoric about this has to be undergirded with like an honest accounting of our past and present. So if there's, a republican who doesn't have a plan to address, crippling inner generation poverty than you know. People may not believe that rhetoric and that's all bronco emphasise- and it has caused a furore on the right Nicky Hayley tim Scott, their garonne saying like a barack obama. He doesn't he used to believe and racial progress, in america now he thinks the country's racist bubble and they're doing this, because this is The only way they can get any sort of attention for their cows. While I have bad news for them is as the first I'm here. If this real, why this is my terminally imo me. I knew that obama said that, and I knew there were. There is a blot on the right. The fact that too. got a nikki, Haley had been they've been making it like their whole campaign for a full week. It's wild that how desperate they are for attention like. I follow the news for living news to me. This is what I'm saying this is what and this will hurt going to have the same problem. Doug burgum.

Boy, Doug Bertram, he's got that problem. They working middle east has untold amount of money to spend on ads. He is one of the leading spenders to date in early state primary adds. I don't think we'll herds can have that opportunity here. That's true the parts of brought by stamps dot com talking about a digital service that is made your life easier I was in your phone tabs on your phone number before that food coming here. rubbed off at your door? How that to house future house tonight with so much of our world digitized or automated. Why stick to old school mailing in shipping for twenty five years, stamped outcome has been indisposition For over one million businesses, if you mail or ship often what stamps dot com our part for you simply print postage and shipping labels right from your homer office, no lines, no traffic, no waiting. They have amazing,

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selling nuclear secrets is in a cry statue, she has escaped disposed to be, but she's wearing of life. There was a wise hold on to the prosecutor when it came to undermine the trees, hotter psmith he's doing hard times It is only because daddy is president that he gets this sweetheart deal with no jail time. what's a web site, I'm here from women and on here they were part of his former ministries in those people that have known about these nine times solve our country out. They should be held accountable to this scourge. For me, it is not just about the president going after president tromp is going after parents in school board meetings. If you're a pro lights catholic you're, an extreme. Is there if you're a journalist, for goodness sake, they went aftermath tabby. I just learned a lot just now that, like a five minute commit crime, I should do some crack first right.

because I am I do the crack, then I could say I have a problem and then they do this diversion thing so always have crack with you in your committing a crime. Will then wanna be dictator, Joe Biden? Let a prosecutor appointed by his political opponent charge his own son. Should we impeach this lawless thug, or do you think I've been thinking about how trump is going to respond to this, and I think he's going to pivot seamlessly from Joe Biden want to be dictator to job and so weak that he let his own attorney general arrest, her son, you have you say like from I say I wouldn't have let that happen, but trump's kids, he probably would like he would have protected ivanka and maybe donald trump Jr, but Eric and tiffany he would have let merrick garland haul them off of our time. They'd been get more right now, if he thought of it, you want to him the truth of what happened here for people yeah. We should be very

clear five years ago, a trumpet pointed u s attorney, began a wide, ranging investigation into everything amity with hundred by including his international business dealings. How he, aid money and at the end of that process, and even after Joe Biden was elected, the you at the important? U s attorney attorney. they'd on the job to contain you on this investigation to ensure there is no political interference. Now that the father of the sunday that investigation was now the prisoner had states another end of that they didn't find any of all the conspiracy theories, all the things that Jim Jordan and Jim calmer and donald trump and faxes and talk about what they found out was that he failed to report some of his income and therefore you're paid on his taxes, and there was a gun crime From the time in which he was doing a promise of the direction, so after all of that,

the top of what they were? Even that, though, what he did was he went to go by again and when you buy a gun, it says on a form, are you addicted to drugs or have you been to have you done drugs in the last two months and he said no was a lie, and so they gave him a gun, and that was it also. What about what a system we have people, the gun laws and whatever your honor, I don't intend to commit a crime with this gun on your honor yeah you just you just gotta, that's it! That's all we need. We just need you to fill out this form, and you know what I'm sure the area is trying to get rid of that form altogether. That's why we should not make people go through the process of having to philip is cumbersome for given begun when they walk it anyway, and so the ottawa process he played those crimes he had read. You pay aspect. Access knees entered a diversion programme agreed you never purchase a gonna get. That is either

completely normal standard outcome for a process like this no evidence of favouritism. There's no evidence of involvement from Joe Biden if there was you think the trump appointed? U s attorney would say something about it to someone perhaps yet the thing truly unusual about the way this case was handled is the fact that the trump appointed attorney stayed on in the binding administration and marriage garlon, the attorney general well said in a in a public letter at the beginning of this whole process. This trump appointed us attorney has the full authority to investigate this case to make charging decisions to decide when he's going to bring charges? What kind of charges which is extremely unusual, because Merrick garland is the guy's boss, but because of the potential conflict of interest,

marguerite had this guy is in charge, he gets to make all the decisions appointed by trump started investigation under the tremors. and I'm sorry, marjorie, tiller, green and Kevin Mccarthy that he didn't charge hunter with a bunch of crimes that comport with the conspiracies. You ve come to believe because your heads are stuck in the fucking mega media echo chamber. With a whole bunch of conspiracies about a hundred. Did all these international crimes with china in burris mine. Everything else like I know, that's what you think he did, but we had actual investigators who were not. Democrats in fact, are trump appointed republicans look into it and they didn't find anything. So like someone should ask them. What would you have done? would you have just made up charges for hunter button? Yes, you should have a further question. Is that of ever got like someone should ask, let that that's a good question from a reporter I will say, prepare. Doesn't What you are only

our only hope, also guess who would have in a similar deal to hunter Biden. Had he just pled guilty, or made a deal with prosecutors, donald fuckin trump, who who is you know, being tried for crimes that are a bit more severe than hunters, stealing nuclear. grits and a lot of legal experts for saying that if Donald trump struck a deal with the prosecutor, he could have avoided what's about to happen to him as well, but he doesn't want to because it isn't listen to his hunger Where's. He listens to you, no judicial watches Tom fitted. That's not answered done. I wasn't it. Also, iris lawyers have said like that. This is typical of what happens to people who don't pay their taxes.

Time. One iris lawyer told politico like if we prosecuted for failure to pay taxes, the jails would be full oftentimes. They don't even prosecute cases like hunters. So that's why there was a deal and a lot of it was our weapons charge that that you know people do time for weapons charges a first time weapons charge like this. That doesn't involve any violence which has just lying to by the hand, and this is what you usually get, and by the way, if the judge really thinks this is some sweetheart deal like Heaven. Mccarthy says like all these republicans are accusing him of the judge I have to approve the the plea deal. The judge can say: oh no, this was a sweetheart deal. I don't wanna. Do this so we'll see we'll see what the judge does, but I'm sure whoever the judges, even if it was a trump appointed judge. You know they'll get attacked us to some Biden stitch because that's their deal, that's what they're doing Where does the story go next politically and legally as the end of this or what? What's your then at the end of a politically the republicans As evidenced by the clip we played are in a lather about it, there's going to be

negations into the investigation. Are gonna, be hearings, Jim comber, the famously incompetent chair of the governor oversight committee, has promised to dig deep into this. There's this fbi the blower who seems to be a complete, fried involved. This is gonna, get it like theirs no chance that the problems are let go of their conspiracy theories and just say I was wrong good for justice. And so this will continue to be part of it will say at all. through the election, but for the rapporteur people who live outside of the magyar bubble. This is probably resolved, which is politically what Democrats one yet. Ok, so another awful story, that's been clogging up our feeds this week is Joe rogan three hour. Conversation, relations with Robert Kennedy, junior who's running for president, the democratic primary kennedy it has accused the you

Government of quote knowingly, poisoning kids because of eight debunked conspiracy that vaccines cause autism? He cues doktor photo of launching a quote coup against western democracy because he promoted covert vaccines. He claimed school shootings happened, not because of access to guns, but because of access to anti depressants, he said chemicals in the water or turning boys trans, that aids might not be a virus and that game in the eighties actually died from poppers and here's. What he told Joe rogan last week about the danger of wifi cancers, not the worst thing. They also opens up. Rate radiation opens up your blood brain barrier and so

Well all these toxics enter your body can now go into your brain. How does wifi radiation open up your blood brain barrier? Yet now you're gone beyond my my own expertise, but up to that point up to that point the expertise was vast and deep. Yes, the effects of wifi on our blood brain barrier. He went on to call it a leaky brain look, it up, leaky, brain and then- can has like one of his producers, Google, and they got some go. Oh yeah, see right here on the Google yeah you get leaky brain its no problem and ensuring that we should get the wifi out of the studio yet eminent, that's a variant What the fuck is happening. Do you know what that's an important point? Uber is a lot of WI fi, podcast, studios, yeah, aren't even a wire of junior within their he's, putting his blood bring barrier on the line for this race, so the

was bad enough, but afterwards, when vaccine scientists and pediatrician Peter hotels tried to fact check kennedy on twitter, rogan than elon musk and then is fuckin. Vc fanboys demanded demanded that hotel debate Kennedy on romans pod, which led to, among other things, a right wing anti facts not stocking hotel at his home. Poles, of course show that an astounding twin, percent of democratic voters are considering voting for kennedy in the new york times. Just ran a long piece about. Why he's a real headache for Biden, real blood, brain barrier, headache for by framework do you agree and what, if anything, should the Biden campaign and other democrats do about it me once they are times. Is writing a story about how something it's a headache for you. It's become attic.

Maybe a summit was rather more that's the story, the fuckin had. I mean, of course, gonna be annoying. Its can be quite annoying. There's no damn! primary. The presses bored with it there are going to cover it binds, political adversaries are gonna use Robert Kennedy as a cudgel to try to make binding the big. It is important to note that one of the people that robert Talk to you before I got the race was steventon instead in and encourage him to run because they ve been properly thought that are f. K, junior would a chaos agent in the democratic primary, the reason they made its way these anti Biden, we see our hers supporting Robert Kennedy are these guys we're all their money attack and urge they are tending to elect a guy who thinks that WI fi should be banned should be present as it's funny about that. For a second so it is going to be a pain, a joe items like, though the the before the present election sort is always a huge any asked for a largely

I president, like Biden, because there's just mischief to be had right the presence of the cover he's got a famous named come someone who became does this manifestation of whenever struggles Biden may have among democratic voters as a way to cover that story? What should I do. do the work he was gonna. Do whether Robert Kennedy was running or not, which, as he has to spend this year strengthened, his standing among democratic voters, we know from poles or a percentage of democratic voters workin sir. I shockingly percentage who think he shouldn't run. Hers about age who don't know enough about what he has done, We plan to do and the advantage of being an incumbent is you, spend that off year strengthen your base? You do that through ads. You get through campaigning. You do that through using the volleyball, but there's going have to do all the.

those things. I think he would do those things. Rather, Robert Kennedy was a subject of near time. Stories are not the hottest. President Biden strengthen his standing with the segment of the democratic primary electorate who is concerned that chemicals in the water are turning young boys trans. Is that as key segment that he's going to have to you have to do some events with those folks orbit, the folks or but the folks who think the da the poppers are gay people are not it's. That aids is just sort of a conspiracy. He's gotta go on organs by cast. Let's get, it is eight he's got it at eight I will say: Fortunately, I listen to about half of the candidates rogan podcast, which is still an hour and a half, because it's a three hour whereas I really them saying this on a day when we have a long term point of view in this package is probably hadn't two hours to but three eyes out you

photography. Assumption was granted. You told me, you listen to one point. Eight speed you I did I did was wanted I could still hear everything you're under saying that half of three hours more pointed speed is not an hour and a half look any any at the time I devoted to this was a problem, but I I I I hadn't really heard. Rfk junior talk a lot and I wanted to get what the deal was. I can see why he's both he can be appealing to people and thus dangerous, because what he his whole shtick is is? He has a whole bunch of scientific studies. Memorized he's got the authors, he's got the papers and he does this whole. Like look, don't take my word for it I think x. I think it's bad when you just take experts word for it or politicians, whatever else just look at the science I'm for science- and I think you should look at the science in this- is what it saying and by the way corporate in are to get everyone, and this is a conspiracy, because you know he started and environmental lawyer and he

you know he went after a lot of corporations that were poisoning people and that's what the corporations do. our irresponsible right. They are out for profit, and so he started using people's scepticism with corporations and corporations. Bad behaviour in the past too then make people think will then also farmer would do this to vaccines and all the other kind of conspiracy and these companies with this with wifi and other shit and then everything's, dangerous and everything is a scam and everything's sort of a conspiracy, and no? He doesn't sound, except for the cliffs. We play I sound crazy all the time right, and so I get why people are some people could be like? Oh yeah, maybe he's making some sense. Maybe I should start googling some of this stuff, so I do think it's something to it. I do think it's something for democrats to take seriously. I also think that

We act freaked out or worried, or about his views or or start freak in a friggin out about it that will sort of play in two people feeling like well, I should be able to make my own decisions and for my own opinions and the most effective way to deal with this is to just make sure people understand what his views are, what he has said and what he is saying now and what he will do like I'd. I think that's important, just information to get out people either. He has a greater danger to public health there, yet to undermine one that was setting yeah. Not I mean look. I do think it will get we fight with as a bit, but you know if Joe Biden is not in the ballot in ireland new Hampshire, because I new Hampshire will continue to put their primaries first, even though Joe Biden, the dance. Is this have decided that south carolina going first, if new hampshire and our desire to hold their primers and

angel, but does not participate, because that's the rules but are of key junior, does and marion williamson. Does you could have rfk junior winning the first two primaries now again. Is that an actual threat to Joe Biden's candidacy? No, but will that suck for a couple of weeks for the button campaign? Maybe I dunno with that? and what's put a pin in that, looking back to or later putting that yeah we'll put a pin in that, so one concern is that Kay junior could run as a third party candidate once he loses democratic. Primary he's. Not the only one political activists, Coronel west who's been prominent Bernie sanders support in the last few elections has said he's running for the green party nomination. The green party is on the ballot in sixteen states, including swing states. Like me, and in wisconsin, the drifters at no labels have raised tens of millions of dollars to write by partisan ticket that Joe mansion is flirting with. They are on the ballot so far in four states, including the swing, save arizona how much of a threat or these potential third party candidate,

to Joe Biden reelection and what, if anything, can be done there, there are huge start there. Actually here tonight Donald trump is never received more than forty seven percent and these two elections and the more people are on the ballot, getting votes, the lower says number from fifty point, one to solve closer to forty, he wine in twenty? Sixteen largely because in that around states of pennsylvania, michigan and wisconsin, the combined third party vote from jail stein and Gary Johnson was ran. The laboratory, ticket exceeded the margin by which he beat hilary. So it is, it is a big problem and I made this point in a message box needs over really decided to take on and say I was wrong about that and say said that, if your by loses, it will not be because of a third party or because of how each problems, health problems or the economy sucking I'm sure, that's all true, with everything's gonna describing guy silvered huh.

Yeah it's. This lake is a concept that is that of europe. Now has decided as so. You could get cold too. I guess that's another, but in worse if everything is going swimmingly and Joe Biden has really high perverting sex. These roaring, then a third party won't matter, but in a close election. It matters- and we know this because data for progress released a pole yesterday which showed that in head to head race, environment trump Biden, winds, forty seven, forty five in a between Biden trump and a gene moderate third party challenger, the race becomes forty four forty four immediately, and if it's forty, four or forty four nationally, that probably means in the battleground states, donald trump, which skew a little more republican in the country. Donald trump wins electoral college yeah I mean all people need to know is if the people who voted for jill stein, just jill stein in michigan, wisconsin and pennsylvania, had voted for Hillary instead, Donald trump would have never become president

that's it right, and so you know I'm sure, there's a lot of cornell west fans out there. You live in a swing state, you vote for Cornell west, you helped trump become president. That's it and you can say: oh well, it's Joe Biden's fault. He did this or that or that. No! No! No, it's it's your decision. You get to decide whether you want to with Donald trump become president or you don't? And if you want to help him, then you should vote for Cornell west or you should vote for Joe Manchin and has no labels ticket or you can vote for. You know rfk junior if he decides to run third party, but if you don't want to help trump become president, you have over Joe Biden. That's it very simple. Now I think messaging too voters who might actually make this decision is probably a little different. I would say because they are chastising icing works like I do. You think

need to explain why these candidates would not be good candidates for president. I really do because I, and I think we can get. Debonair, because they didn't give. If you are one of these voters- and you hear a bunch of people yelling at you to vote for Joe Biden and because you have to, I don't think it's going to be very effective, and I think you have to say why Rfk jr's, not a good choice. Y cornell west is not a good choice. Why Joe manchin for whoever it may be, is not a good choice of that is something that I think Democrats are going to have to figure out in the next year. Finally, another week the corruption scandal for the supreme court here is the pro public a headline just Samuel Alito took luxury fishing vacation with geo p billionaire, who later had cases before the court yikes here's what when in two thousand eight hedge fund billionaire Paul,

singer flew a lido on his private plane to alaska, which the justice did not pay for nor disclose, as he is required to do by law in two thousand and fourteen alito cast a vote in a case that awarded singer's hedge fund. Two point: four billion dollars: a lido refuse to respond to pro publicly. Instead, he ran to the wall street journal before the story was even published in june. them to run a whiny pre bottle up ed, where he argued that he wasn't actually required to disclose the private jet ride that he never discussed. This with singer and besides the seat on the plane would have otherwise been unoccupied. So no big deal looked, the guy is just trying to fill empty seats on private planes. This is a public service, it's good for the environment. He cares, climate, that's what you want to do that way. What is your reaction to this left wing assault on why

our greatest public servants ain't, what the world coming to that, a supreme court justice is allowed to take secret trips on a billionaires private jet without getting harassed by the liberal media, just because he it or sided with that billionaires hedge fund. In a case that made him even richer, Who among us, has it for a private jack by people with business before the court system commonplace thing alive reaction to this just speaks to the absolute arrogance of Alito I'm as how dare you questioned me, how dare you Why should the idea that I can't fly on private jets as a public, so you can use it to tell people no one. You can fly on your fuckin, private jets, go for it close it and refuse. When I can't refuse unbelievable, I mean it's also is it is

exceedingly rare for supreme court justices to write up ads at all, let alone what is based a glorified letter to the editor bitching about a story in another publication, just a temper tantrum. about you detective, he thought we're tantrum in the wall street journal, which then today ran and had a tory all defending alito passengers. Hedge fund appeared ten times before the supreme court after that trip ten times and then, of course, there is the one in twenty four team where he had two billion dollars from the ruling, so the quantity of Paul you mentioned earlier supreme court approval is down to thirty percent, the lowest on record. Sixty three percent of all voters favour term limits for supreme court justices. Twenty nine percent oppose. Would you think some good to run on absolutely

I think the corruption in the court is a is a real problem and democratically like their addressing it, and they have the open door to do so, because the conduct of a veto and thomas in the way in which the republicans rigged the core over recent years I have been, then you to that the decisions like dogs that have dramatically affected people's lives? You ever corrupt rigged court that is operating from? politics, not law. Therefore, if we agenda to address the corruption in that court, should taken on immediately should be a central part of our campaign. I think court reform, obviously ice expansion, the cut is not there yet, but the broader court reform agenda, including term limits and ethics reform, should be a big part of what we talk about was cutting leaders are now saying they will force of vote this summer on ethics legislation for the supreme court, obviously not gonna past the republican house. But what do you think of that move and what their proposal

It's the the absolute right thing to do politically thought everything you subjects like it's fucking bananas that the supreme court is completely unaccountable body there. There are no repercussions, and we have not just we should vote on it. We started done. We should make the Republicans vote against it. We should attack them for voting against it. There is also another benefit or which is. We need to put more pressure on John roberts to do his fucking job, because he is the administrator of the court. He is the person in charge of health. Supreme court runs. He is allowed they reputation trust in the court to be absolutely damaged by the conduct of his justices and has refused to speak about recent. Do anything about it. He could get oft here in some way, shape or form and the we have seen before how efforts at court reform dating back to the days of sdr have influence at how the how the supreme court runs itself, and so I think this is one percent- the right thing to do here. I think that dumb, you know if they could somehow pass ethics legislation which I imagine it

If we win back the house of Biden, wins reelection. If we keep the senate, maybe we could pass him supreme court ethics legislation and I think that would be a good thing. I think it like substantively it's crazy that they don't hold themselves to the same standards, the other public servant does and there's no reason for that. It's not the constitution, says about the supreme court that those judges and I'll judges should keep their jobs barring bad behaviour. Basically, that's it. That's all it says, and so this is the bad behavior- and it doesn't say anything about how you know- I think roberts and some of these justices are like. Oh congress has no role in regulating the quarter, but blah blah blah blah. It's like well didn't say that in the fucking constitution it does not say that congress cannot pass laws doing the court an effect in, like you said, in the new deal era they did I get in and many other times they have changed the make up of the court. They fund the court. They pass Furthermore, checks amounts is not a one way street

hopefully the system. Yet in the cards. It basically gives congress the full authority to create courts that are not the supreme court when they want to, but if caught like, of course congress, can regulate called yet they. I address this to the court. That's not gonna constitution either, but so anyway, I'm I'm all for the ethics legislation but now I'm I'm really eyeing the term limit thing now, because I think that and look at the court do I want to expand the court. I want to change the yeah, I'm all for that too, but I think like in the in the short, not the short term, but maybe the medium term, the most doable reform that I think would actually have the biggest impact is term limits, because you know we're going to be fuckin stuck with Amy coney barrett. and bright cavanaugh for most of our lifetime with this is nothing should put opinion because I spent a lot of this is a real like we should do. This is a its if I spent a lot of researching for. When I went on roaming america, which talk about cortex, mentioning court reform and eternal

thing is fastened the cancer for questions, or we should do this with strict scrutiny one day the cabin questions rather are fascinating. are, they are and the adjusted the short answer there is. There is a belief that the constitution does grant justices lifetime tenure unless they have engaged in bad behaviour, which is now in the eye of the beholder Yes, but one way around that would be to say once you've hit your term limit, you go on senior status and either you go to an appellate court or a federal court. If your supreme court justice or you just do what a lot of senior judges on senior status do now, which is just sort of sit back you're, still a judge, don't you're just not involved in cases. Do you sit back and you wait until a case comes up in which one of the justices flew on a private jet on a luxurious vacation with one of the people before the court, and then, if that person steps down you step in that's how that works. That's it that's the way it works. Alright, when we come back,

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Is out in July, cnn's, Jake, tapper, hey guys, come back good to see you a fellow straight shooter respected on both sides, my god, the original theory that you are the original straight shooter. I don't think that's where he came from that came from. I asked because I said that jake and I were both just two straight shooters, but let's remember that. That's not true true really. I was the actual choir, that's that was the that's where it that's where we began referring to you and then me, as that you solve a lot of teachers. You'd, like you, ve got a murder. Hungrier hope I didn't. It was a me I didn't know. I was the original entrepreneur cause it from when he was on the pata is from it was from when he was on keeping it tasty. One hundred, I believe, oh my gosh keeping at sixteen hundred. I was the original parts of america holy smoke. I know it's been a long time. Hillary's gonna, win right. She's got this every cool that I mean. Speaking of that, so last few weeks have made it pretty clear that the uh the trump show back it sure is. I dunno, if it ever went on hiatus yeah, it's def. In the season. Yeah

I was going to ask like this. Is now your third presidential campaign you've covered where the former president is a candidate, a difference now, as he's been indicted, twice possibly more on the way related to his role in trying to overturn the last election and incite a violent riot? how you feel about going through all this again, it's weird right. It's it's very weird and it's it's and it's strange to see who is deciding to be honest, what's going on and who isn't right running the visa. The bill bar activism. Talking about how serious this is the mark asperger's. and then on occasion you have a nikki, haley or mike pence. I mean talking about these charges and then of course, donald Giving these interviews and talking in front of audiences, in which He admits everything everything, strange legal strategy, its

it a it's, not much of Chris Christie. I should say I mean, but that's not that's not guess not as much of a surprise but and I mean it was always throughout so much as it was isaac will who is going to speak? Who in the republican party, is going to speak against this, and it would be in two thousand and sixteen What are our early on? Everybody spoke against it and then he started winning and then they will shut up. And then you know it's odd. Seeing the cat cause. It's like one you criticise him. It's almost like you, then put get put in a category as a republican and academy. after a while you're just a trump hater yeah right, I'm not saying it's fair but like bite by trump and by the base so like they stop listening to Liz cheney, as if she's some flaming liberal same thing, with mitt romney sinking, without impinging on and on and on and on, but so it's all like now, we see who are the people who are.

now going to try to say something and boy so I saw I don't know if it was the bulwark somebody did a list of like everybody who had served with donald trump in administration who had come out against him one way or another bear read it to him. Live on tv. I yeah vaccines, yeah yeah, it's quite a list, its great. It's a long list It says I mean like if, if one of those equivalent people in the obama administration or the bush administration klingman. They would be phased in Europe. yeah like the old. Can you believe that I mean AL gore did tempered criticism of bill Clinton after the lewinsky scandal tepid, and it was like big news same thing with Joe Lieberman, but this is that, but this is like this is not that. Obviously, this is

he he's a narses. I mean calling psychological names, the billboards cities a narcissist. I mean I'm not disagreeing with the assessment but like as there is a threat, right he shouldn't be elected, because he can't be trusted, oh and Did the interview with aspirant sunday this was really surprising to me said, while I enjoy in the last few days a vast stephanie, should the former coms director? Why did the questions always why? Why did he take these documents Stephanie grisham and said always just you know, he's like a little boy and he has his toys, mine, mine, mine and then Michael Cohen had a much more conspiratorial way of looking at it like? No, he won't. He wanted to do something with these mothers money or this, but he was going to. I don't mean conspiratorial in a pejorative sense. I just mean like he thought there was actually a conspiracy of some sort and I asked asper what he thought and he said

Both were legitimate possibilities. Like think about that As the Michael cohen thing, you know, he's a little progressive even on we're, even when it comes to the spectrum of people who used to work without tromp? And now disassociated themselves, he's like he's even on the more aggressive side of that, but like even but was, it seems like better. That's a wretched, credible, possibility, Michael com, bad lawyer for trumpet a bad lawyer against from here. We have, the best window into his business dealings, and I guess I dunno it's hard to tell now what, if he's playing, he was playing a role for trump. As this attack dog, he called himself a fixer. I dunno that he fixed much now he's like a resistant. Here, but he does not have a guy operates and if he thinks sincerely that trump might be selling secrets. Is somebody or leveraging them for some sort of economic gain a mean

the things I've been listening to yeah, I mean I don't I don't know. Nothing would surprise me at this point right. That's the therapist right. What do you think about bill Barr? As someone who went through a cycle of this covering for trump around the mueller probe right and now has done a full reverse. All you've been you've interviewed. All of these people may have whom have been on both sides of defenders of trump and then antagonist tromp. What do you find describes the moment that some of them have shifted? Is there anything that that any connection you make between HU as a line and where they drop. I think I can really explain it. I mean obviously personal experience plays a big role, a lot of these people, all think- and I understand why they think or thought well. This is the situation here.

Is the president. So I'm going to try to steer the ship, and so the country doesn't go to war or whatever, and I understand that- and I can't explain bill Barr's position, because I, what is it about the national secrets that is so beyond the pale that so many other things were not beyond the pale, the key he he didn't like january. Six, I would think, would just be like okay, yeah that'll. Do it for me, yeah I mean like even if the like with them on the policies are like trying to steer, ship, and so many people broke with among january sex and then some and then some of them kind of like crept back secret, yeah I don't, I don't know, I can't really. I can't really explain it. I mean I do. I do see the I was inside, trying to make it work and like now I just can't be silent or whatever, but there are still people plenty people who are still relatively

Ireland, so there's this moment on your show less tuesday, where you told your colleagues in the control room to stop looping the bee role of those before us, both where they loved it does it they showed they showed at once and unlike ok, we ve seen it, but you guys know how cable works. It's like we have. These live new pictures, but show that let's just keep showing them before they start. Labelling ok, we got the news via that done, and this is this is for people who don't about be role of trump at the cuban bakery he went to brad receives our famous cuban beggary agenda in miami and he went to add after arrayment- and your point was that he's just trying to make a campaign out of it right? How do you decide like when it's worth showing your viewers were trumpet saying and doing, and when it's not it's such a good question I mean, I think, A general note I am

wary of showing any campaign event life for anyone. I just dont really certainly see the news value of it and we're going to do it for this candidate. Then you should be doing it for every candidate, like just out of fairness, this was something I didn't know about and like all of a sudden. It was happening and I was kind of surprise and not really. Sure what he was doing and I was like watching and in real time and figuring out, and I just As a general rule, there is obviously there is a difference of somebody. Is the president of the united states, whether its Joe Biden heard or donald trump whomever, because there, the president- and we know inherently it's important, what they do, which is not to say that we cover every single public thing that anybody does, including present abide I just think that our bar has to be pretty high and if they say something that it like, we did cover his speech that night, but we have discussed it.

We were not going to cover it live and when he said something we were gonna like and a chunk bring it to people. You know, put put it in context before show that show the clap, put it in context again and then discuss it. But I just think like in an era in our eight or allow candidates running, and we have to think about fairness and be you know, is inciting violence. It's not just theoretical. It's it's we sought on January section and the death threats or have always been going on, but We ve seen actual violence and bloodshed, so I just think it something we all have all of us in the media have to think about.

Now that we are a few weeks out from the infamous trump cnn town hall. Do you think, was useful exercise. I guess the questions I I wouldn't. I would ask you this: do you think that town halls having a candle to take questions from voters are are worthwhile? Just as I get it it's a okay. Do you think that the person who is the number you know number one in the polls by far for the republican presidential nomination forget donald trump for one? Second, just whoever that person is should be included in that I do yeah. So then look at us is he's gotten. The ropes know em it's because I thought a lot about this, because I I I did play any role in it other than which was the fuckin problem. What would we

I am planning, or I didn't play any wrote, disassociate myself from the comic book. I didn't want it except for like covering and afterwards but like so what You have done differently at all. Would you not have done? It live the friendly crowd? Really, I mean either if you'd like as a general matter. So much time is spent argument. Visibility there, a few formatting problems, everyone, cheering and jeering caitlyn Collins was not great in the live part. I don't have a strong feeling yeah. My my view on this was the democratic operative in me was happy to have it up there because he said a bunch of stuff that is extremely unpopular. That's just going to come back to haunt him, probably in the in general elections. One like that, the stratagem he didn't really care. Thinking about the journalistic value. I actually, I do think if there was, if there was an audience of undecided republican voters, maybe through a few independence- and there may be some someone had warned them ahead of time. Don't don't be,

hooting and hollering during the whole thing, maybe that would have been better other than that. I don't know that there was anything else you guys could have done so the audience is the same audience. We have for all these town halls and always have which is democrats. Endemic cleaning independence for a democratic term all and republicans and republican leading independence for republican tunnel, and it wasn't stacked with trumped supporters. It was new, sure republicans and republican leading independence, and now I did I did it Nikki haley town hall a few days later, a few weeks later in iowa, and it was the same definition of the audience and you know by the end of it. She really charmed them. She had really done a good job with them and were cheering for her, but you know they were cheering for what she was saying, which was not

belittling somebody who had accused her of sexual assault and rape. You know one in court and not you know I mean it was just. I think what people reacted to was the fact that a lot of republicans are still enthralled of the sky yeah, and I think that's that's. That's really what honestly people we're about were bothered by and my view. It is like having on this is what we're dealing with. This is like the reality of the situation. That is the reality of the situation and end. The you know he's that he is a sixty seven percent approval raining with Republicans and republican leaning independence according to a suitable to Dana that's down in a month from seventy seven, but

seven percent approval rating- is still pretty damn good yeah there's a there's. There's also just I think, a kind of a viewer who's like an engage on social media, paying a lot of attention who watches what happens on cnn, like a sociologist and can't separate trump saying things that are deeply unpopular. A lot of people basically open to a national abortion ban wind overturned the next election, a bunch of heinous things about the sexual assault, claims against him and and are unable to separate that from people cheering for it. As if someone at home who might find that heinous. While people applauded, I guess it must be pretty good, and I do think that, like Nicky alien in your town hall,

she's got a lot of similarly unpopular thing. She said, I think some she said she had some outlandish things to say about elsie bt issues and what have you and there is not nearly the same level of outcry or attention or concern, which I think speaks to an obsession with tromp buddhism strictly healthy, on like sort of a media waters either. Right. Like I mean there, is a sort of a at a focus and concern about the way he's covered that doesn't apply to the other candidates. I mean, I think, one of the things that people reacting to was and people who don't like trump were. I did have we really are we really gonna do this oliver, and yet I m just leave him am and also you know. Frankly, you know the way he talked to Caitlin in the way he talked about agent carroll. Like you know, it's it's it's rude and it's not pleasant.

where people who don't like him to watch him be rude. If you like him, then you like who is being rude to I dunno it look. I don't think there's any easy answers to any of this, but I don't think pretending he's not the republican, the leading republican candidate for president and that he has a decent chance of being the next president. Again, I don't think that solves anything. I think caitlin fact checked him. You know a ton. She knew a ton about the classified documents. Astrogation like she was way. I feel like she was like way ahead of the country because, like said now: we're all experts and classified documents, right Caitlin was their fact checking him knowing all the details- and he said a bunch of stuff that wasn't true, then I dunno I mean like mac. Pretend any of this is easy. It's it's it's it's it's bewitching harming its troubling, but

he is the leading the fact that will go up and tell all those lies. I would rather he go up in because common normal and talk about his policies. You now that would be much more pleasant as a viewer and as a journalist, see as have done trump hayley, Chris Christie, I sense we advance ever forget my pants corpse. If so, I assume they'll try to get Joe Biden to do one. Do you think yeah everybody tim Scott runs scientists. Do you think, on the democratic side, you would do a town hall with someone like robert F Kennedy Jr? I would not okay. Why? Because he spreads dangerous misinformation about childhood vaccines, and I have I had a personal experience with him in two thousand and five when he became

while professional exp, a professional, experienced personally with him in two thousand five was when he began in earnest, his anti childhood vaccine campaign. He wrote a story for salon. Dot com that was jointly published with rolling stone, both of which I have since rescinded it rang and retracted the articles and you rolling stone, just completely disappeared at it was like it never happened. Salon has a page where they acknowledge what happened and etc, etc, but rolling stone. Just like you know, it's like half I don't know where he lives gone under age out under the j it might be, it might be so yeah I get its reference, maintenance, oh so anyway, I I just dealt with when he was so dishonest and experience, and since then he lies about the experience frequently as an Example of how the media is corrupted by big farmer with eight did a story about the peace that he did for rolling stone. Isn't it

and five when all this vaccine stuff was still kind of new. All this. These lies about vaccines, causing autism and kids, and there it's completely discredited in its is not true it that is what we did a story about it. I called him and told him like we're going to hold it a day we're gonna hold the story a day and we were gonna like just do some more due diligence on his claims and then we ran the peace the next day, in his retailing of the story. He and I working closely for three weeks on a terrific documentary about his discovery and corporate amerika killed it and I call them up- and I said it's never happened to me before- that I've had a piece killed. I can't believe us I get. None of that is true and, like he's out, he literally just said this the other day on a podcast, and it was. It was like a minute, forty Peace? It ran on world news tonight with Peter Jennings, the next night I

and had a million pieces of gold I was. I was a new abc. I've been the idea of using these were two years. I've had a thousand pieces, kehl babysitters, like a mean and its like he, so dishonest and like so now I wouldn't this is such This such a media story, the rebels, like that's an example of this system. Working you, a good editors, you, a geek, hearers you at fact, checkers doing the right thing doing due diligence killing story. for tracking, if need be now we're in twenty twenty three there is. This are of key boom lit when he presented a cunt country Democrats rarely like because of his last name, but you have jack dorsey, a billionaire founder of twitter, propping up are of K. You ve got aaron rodgers. Yes, the budget, republicans propping ammonia, reviewing this valuable foil to attack Biden, but you ve got aaron rodgers providence get you on mosque in David sacks doing these spaces with him. And there's no there's no filter

or layer between these have credible sounding lies and anecdotes and stories that are Robert Kennedy, jr rifts off and an audience of people who are believing they're true, and I'm just wondering what you as a journals, how you feel about that? What you think people can do about it, because to your point I mean like they're a burden images of measles. You know like diseases that Google, Robert Kennedy, junior and somalia and measle exactly he. I mean there is a harmless in were some nurses screwed up and the anti backs people turn that into this vaccine killed kids or this and he went to the island and a prompt them up, and then there is an epidemic of measles. I mean, can you I'd yeah and yet- and I mean I dont know what there is to do about it other than do what I do as effectively as possible, which is just fact check and make sure people understand what he saying is untrue.

He still out there claiming that some aerosols in inviteth america was as preservative there was. in some of these vaccines, and there was false accusations that this is this at some summit. But it's been out of vexing since, like nineteen, eighty nine and the rate of autism discussed continues to climb a lot of this just people being more aware of diagnosis exam, but there might be some kind. Oh I don't know, we know what all the reasons, but it's not the marathon vaccine, yes and leap by anyone. I think he's dangerous and think, and when I say, is dangerous, I don't mean, like his ideas, make me afraid no, I think, he's danger because he tells parents and to get their kids vaccinated and the kids get sick and die. We should also tell people, though, that jake did he's variant. Eli lily had and he gave her ready and sent back at all well take the hint

yeah, the good news he just he just says shit on podcast. Nobody takes that be good, but he said I'm now in that I am now a big farmers show that his argument is crazy like and it's just like. I don't even know what you mean, I'm a big farm. What does that even mean, but I I sort of got it so I, finally I'm halfway through the Joe rogan interview, or why did this to myself? Wasn't it because I have not. I've never listened to him. So I like wanted to see what was going on here and I get why he's both dangerous and why some people find him. like cause, you look exactly like his dad will, but also semi sounds exact like as more he goes on and on and on about like this scientific study in this and this, and he does this whole thing. Like don't don't take my word for it, I think experts bad? I want to be one of those experts. Just read the science read. This is wrong. about all this? I know but lay how many people are known as regions like hair

we ve, google, what he just said: thereabout five g, causing leaky brains and confer upon us and oil. That's my problem. I got five g leaky brain. Does he like this? This is a small This is one example of a larger problem. You know, there's been there's been so much attention on cnn and just the past couple weeks. A lot of joy, there has been like navel gazing, on cnn and its management, and and the ideology being represent. it shows, but that is a tiny conversation taking place as this vast changes, as will be massive shifts, take place, and it feels as though the power of an institution like CNN Msnbc major news outlets that that power itself is all collectively shrinking you, as the gate like with said that there are fewer gatekeeper,

on information and and everyone in those sort of those legacy. Outlets are kind of chasing the lies and misinformation that are being spread all the time by people like a refugee by trump. By and even number of figures and new, you just said I dont know what I can do except go on television and try to corrected and and and and be accurate, but or just bring the right information to bring the right information to people. How do you see your role when you are one one little star in a firmament of information, most of which is now not fact checked at all I mean I can only do what I can do. I mean like I I mean I, it bothers me a lot. The state of a of the media.

it bothers me a lot. You know what fox the you know, the seven hundred eighty seven point five million dollar settlement and that they had to pay dominion and that's just one of many such settlements, and there was the whole secret settlement to the family of Seth rich. I mean the sister and there's more stuff coming with smart manic and other answers and they're just others. Then the financial panel penalty there seems to be actually no punishment. There's no disincentive for these networks that just like openly lighter their viewers for ratings. I mean what that's had here in the dominion taxed and emails, was an open admission. That fox was lying, not just giving a conservative spin something but lying weir's we're lying because we don't want to these viewers, because they're going to news max because they want to be lying to end. Like

There was a seven hundred eighty seven point: five million dollar disincentive structure. I gas, but like I mean who lost their job I mean was I don't know if Tucker losing his job was part of that or not there's like whispers. It was, but I dunno it just I. I don't know what the I dunno, where the disincentive is for these people, who have just openly decided to ah exploit- and you know, are the freedom of the press and the freedom of speech that we have it's it's it's I say and that this is not me trying to make an awkward turned my book, but it is one of the reasons why the sub tax or was one of the plots of the book is about the rise, because a book mason. Seventy seven in one of the one of the points of it is the rise of tabloids and the rise of the murdoch's of the world in the seventies cassettes. When it happened, you feel it I have a credible. Given Much of what happens in the book is not real now because it is fair it is fitting that is next in its a good. It's an excellent question them every out of that

I am still fiction so in book and all the demons are here. I have a similar type of murder character, moving to dc starting a tabloid called dc sentinel, but one of them is that when I, when I researched murdoch for the character of max Lyon, who is based on murdock, it was just amazing the stuff he would say and just openly admit about what at what he thought sold and why it was important to do that and what he'd been doing in Australia and the uk and it's rage and fear you think fox- should be treated as a legitimate news organization. After all this,

I know you're saying this because in two thousand nine week after miss, I was born in why putting at him, but he do I and that he wanted to say that my following a herring in the haze of seven sleepless nights, bow the you guys and of I'm a white house. It launched a campaign seeing the fox is not a legitimate news organization and I asked robert gibbs in a gag all Why was it appropriate for the white house to label this organization which I in my I was looking for the world for looking for the fellow credentialed member of the white house press corps? But what I said was sister organization, which I am regret very much that why you know why was at risk? Why was it legitimate? Why was it responsible or appropriate for a white house to say that about a credential news organization, that was the question yeah and which I've been a did, did Bobby Gibbs take a while

What would he basically asked me to turn? You said you should turn on and then you have alluded to win Glenn back. She was on yeah turn on whatever, and I'm like I'm not saying why this transcripts out there nobody wants to rear, but I'm not saying why would you not say that show I'm saying you label the whole the end and also the other context is who is the white house? Who were that with the major? Sarah, a legitimate journalist with CBS news now was the white house correspondent for fox at the time that we have a beard thick kind, hang out there, Look at all that what I do remember that incident. I just asked the question, because I was interested in what you think now yeah. I should have known that. You would remember that. I would remember that yeah. I do. I think that the fox two thousand and nine is not the fox. If two thousand twenty three,

I understand why obama and the white house we're going on the campaign. I still think it is a fine question for a reporter to say: why is it appropriate to do this? If I when the white house press corps now and you guys we're doing it in whatever I dont think. I would ask that question yeah, I do mean even reading through all the dominion stuff I was. I was like what I'd like to exactly a pin stuff you guys like, but just like the coordination sort of the like. You know, just admitting that it's for money and ratings and eyes it was wild and no journalistic standards at all. Like I'm maria borderless the source for all that stuff with some crazy woman, the ghost yeah does- is afforded email, essentially an ant blood into the news, I'd, like you know, one hundred percent built the out, so I think the most shock, thing to me was reading. You know: cronan quote straight news anchors too,

walking to the opinion, people and saying, like I, I told the decision desk to put arizona back in the trump column and escape first of all, arizona was never in the trump column, so what you mean back in the trump column? Second of all, what do you? What are you even talking to the decision desk? I wish it would never even occur to me to It was appropriate to for me to reach out to the decision desk, but in that wild world were like. Let's just say that I want to reach out to decision. Does I wouldn't even know how to do it like there is at your firewall, I wouldn't even know the big first weight I would never want to do it. It's great and then that same anchored said that he told them to slow, slow. ro the nevada call I just like this is crazy stuff to me with us. You know, this idea, though, and I do agree that, as you know, something has shifted but like this idea that you can have serious news, people on one half of your channel and then fomenting

We like rage and nonsense and fear and misinformed. and on the other half of your channel, as if that that sustainable seems to have been like a larger problem for republicans, as idea that they can have their serious policy Paul ryan types, while winning elections on the backs of donald trump and marjorie taylor, green and the kind of the racialized instead of a you know, the fear mongering that has sort of become the the the the main way in which they draw people out come november, like the idea that these two things could just in parallel forever. Just seems like it wasn't true, it wasn't true for fox is not true for Republicans yeah I mean like. I said. I wouldn't ask that question today I mean, I think, they're. I I think that they are. I think that they are different, which is not to say that they were great in two thousand and nine now, but I think that I think that it is. It is a different situation. Now and again, I I really felt like I was kind of standing up for major garrett.

Hu, I thought was a really good reporter and a friend and was a colleague and the other report, or the other one as rapporteur was Wendell galler, who are you who passed away in the last year may rest in peace also just like. Both I can't say straight shooter, without looking at you and landing, but but like just to just a solid report earlier, but I will know that I was ass. Yet no, but I wasn't even coming at art and the respective of that two thousand. I request your saying right: you're sizing, there's a larger bit of desert, there's a self deception that seems to go on on the right that tries to separate they're kind of whatever their intellectual, serious policy. We operation that that has sort of conservative values from some from them. I gone era, and then this sort of folk, this sort of like this sort of rage, machine and yet did advocate the supper was never true was never possible. I am open to the argument that the wall street journal new organization in the wall, street journal, opinion pages can coexist and am open to the argument that you can have like a serious new

is division or new shows, and the like opinion shows at night. I am open to that argument, which is what is changed, or maybe I'm just. I dunno, maybe maybe I'm just more aware of it or or but it seems worse, is just the degree to which it's just based on lies. Just lies, not conservative opinion. This is how I view the world, because I'm a conservative but his lies and and I like, for instance, I you know, MSNBC is opinion at night. It is, I mean Chris, and neither rachel or alex and and lawrence a minute and then Stephanie, like this opinion generally- and you know I do

You could argue like I don't know that it's the healthiest thing in the world to have preaching to the choir television, but it is based in fact, and what they do you know, and what what I you know I mean I hear The way Hannity like Hannity, attacks me or goes after me, and I I don't you know I'll hear about it like a day or two later, whenever and like how he says things that just aren't true, it's just insane and I don't like he can't even combat it, there's no even a to try to get anything in the realm of real track him at a moment of radical candor with with you- we're We'Re- think it back on your story, career and industry, worried you were, but generally- John Bolton, and I know, there's a coup that you made a comment that you don't have to be a genius to stage a coup in a foreign country and

offended by that. No, I said you don't have to be a genius to stage a coup I was talking about in in america. Sure, ok, sorry and he took offense to the idea that you don't have to be a genius and said I've staged coups in many places. What was that like for you to have someone to submit to staging a coup on? Well, he I mean he kind of retracted a little bit, but it was. There was a kind of a b. I didn't really know what to say. Yeah you want to be. where specific, where let me tell you as someone who staged a few coups yeah, it takes some serious preparation, yeah that was that was an odd mo and that's just like the the perils of not where the perils of the the opportunities and perils of live tv where people just say things and like. Why, ro, the back I, and sometimes you, don't necessarily catch it or even know how to react to it, because it's so bizarre and like you might like him back to like thirty seconds or a minute later, because your brain is still kind of like that. I don't think I followed up meal. I think I found up like a minute or two later I think I had to be like quicker back to a site.

nothing. You said like a minute ago because, because my brain in real time was like wait a second, I think he just admitted that he did a coup was I will say that, if the that, if you look at the way that Donald trump attempted to undo the election, it was for lack of planning. It was in like there was a lot of different avenues. He went right, I mean he did the. the challenges and the election boards than the court room cases than state ledge slave measures. That I mean there is a whole bunch before I got into the violent overthrow. There is a whole bunch of so I mean like. I don't think there was a lack of brainpower there. They they weren't, they were trying all sorts of ways they were. They were just the guardrails held, but you know something we did. A documentary called american coup after in two thousand is either two thousand twenty one or two thousand twenty two, and something atkins in your said was really interesting, and I don't know if he made it up.

What, but it was the first time I ever heard it was from him, is like you see, a guardrail that a car is hit and it's like all mangled, but it's there and you're like okay, so that it it held it held, but that doesn't mean it's going to help them hold the next time yeah when a car hits it the next time it's been battered so badly. It might actually break. I think about takeover attack, pickle jar who or what they like that, the unilateral it bizarre that denies that we open the pickles are. What did I can't get it? I guess they may I was. I was enough for that, in the second, that everything is that I, like the guard real one better, not- and you know it lets ledges fix this. Mine, the gorilla give Technical, my thanks again and if I was you feel like you, take a firm line on how many pickles you're consuming you're home, but it does seem like you're you're, arguing allotted to your certain other person does seem. Can. This recently loosened. I think we should move on.

I believe you are one of the few reporters who, when you ve interviewed trump, has really like held him to account, really elicited some interest. his stuff from him. Why haven't? He hasn't. Let me interview him since that night, as I was sixteen, I thought you interviewed him and now in judge judge curiel, and he it was. It was like June two thousand and sixteen he was going off on how there was the trump university case in judge curiel couldn't be fair because judge carols, a mexican right and and- and I basically said to myself before the interview I like his- that's just like the definition of racism to say somebody can't do the job because of their heritage or race and and and I just I kept on going until I finally got the question out, and that was the last time he let me interview him. Is that, like talking a little about your strategy with someone like trump? Is it I've got to just keep asking follow? Ups and even if

I sort of go off my plan and don't get enough questions and I've gotta get him on this one. They are. I think I think he's not somebody that you'd, like you come with, like I have to cover all these fifteen different topics. You know I have a question and energy and I have a question on like foreign policy in a question and britain you just have to come and ask questions and then, when there's something that you think is important, just drill down until you until you get there, I mean, I think that some that's been that's the most effective way, not just him, but like anybody who is a difficult interview, anybody who is not who doesn't come to liked actually answer questions Send liked is, does a lot of I mean heat. There are other people, I've interviewed who are like this, but he's. Definitely you know of quality and to himself, but just like alabaster, the change, the subject, the insult the though the interruption- and I mean he did he does it all and it's it's a challenge. It's a real challenge, it's tough. To do

I mean you sound like you, so you saw the bare interview he interrupted, the whole time over over and over, and you know that it's. This is part of the part of what you can check it in the lead fat, Is a week doing sunday shows every other way did I in does half of ever have In the town halls you read in three fiction, three novels whilst the new two thousand must sound sixteen. But what are you? Why do you say to become where I went in writing of novel? I always back. I always was interested in fiction. I went to film school after college and and I wrote a novel in my twenties and it didn't. He got me an agent, but it didn't get published and then I kind of just took a break and focused on reporting and then after the outpost over this book. They must include the outpost which was so nonfiction was so meaningful to me and then people.

Publisher wanted me to write another nonfiction. I said I like that book was so intense and it meant so much to me to tell the story these soldiers. If I find something I care that much about, I will, but I it really it took so much of me emotionally and then this was just honestly. It was just like I've been thinking about a plot for the hellfire club, the first book in the series, and it was just fine- it wishes to speak, and aft, and I think I started writing in two thousand and fifteen two thousand and sixteen and it was it was really nice. get out of it and also like the first book takes place in the Mccarthy era and Joe Mccarthy's a character in it, and I felt like I could say something about the era we were in by looking at Joe Mccarthy, just like this one all the demons are here. I felt like I could say something about charismatic debt dogs and mobs and yellow journalism and tabloid journalism today by looking by like making something fun about them about the past. you you go into a room, and you start writing. You stay there for hours.

It has already got escape. I in my god I don't understand it's not what I do. What do you do? How do you do? so I do an outline first and then I need one hundred days this series I'm over what? Now? What are you fuckin writing a book. Your tell jerry goddamn day due to part guess we have exhausted. I don't have a computer in front of me. I didn't get your parents. Is this I I can't really explain. I know that I am very driven in it's kind of crazy. How do I can't really explain- and I know my staff gives me shit about like how do you have time to do this? As you have done, it at all. I can tell you is I I find it enjoyable. I find it fun what kind of copies that right there just a nice coffee black black nothing and I you were innocent question about the book. Now it's being driven trump card, you fake tapir, do feel like he mailed that when it yes kind of lazy right, can you give us one final petra? All the demons are here

Are we done ok, so I think that you guys would like it because it takes place in nineteen seventy seven and is in addition to having these plots that have to do with resident things today, like tabloid journalism and ma and the like, I think, you'd like it, because it's a wild year and ninety semi seven was just crazy like there were so many insane things happened. Evil knievel is like a baby, a character in the book Elvis dies summer of SAM tommy. They were talking with us. We're like do. We think people who listen to his podcast will even know who evil knievel was because I remember of brick being If, as is our right to do so, I was not a man in a man. I will wait. We didn't do anything for me, but, like I had friends who were fans of his in, but he's just a great, very american character. he's. A horrible motorcycle rider does not talented, but like that pilot, a crash into the like that that they hit the swans and questioning the hudson. Like that was cool

We will always sullen murder. Now I just save only was famous for crashing. That is so weird we favour more as a pilot, now, you know what I mean. It was more that he was all the paths that didn't duck said. Okay, so was he was willing to do these insane stunts right, then, so that that's what the and he was and he was like he lived in butte montana and he stayed in butte montana, and he was just like this completely self made creature like that he would only this will only happen in the united states and may be only in the seventies, and just think it's a while the euro that's fun to explore tat tom cruise, the motorcycle and then use a parachute in the new commission, a possible movie. I've seen the that that that little scare, though a little clip when caught a sketch clansmen, did. It may really really did it is to these nuts at school. He did for us he does his. He would die for an idea, keep em scientology guys will protect him anyway,

the book is all the demons are here, is out July, eleven for you for your and now yes absolutely go get the book. Jake tapir, thanks, guys, come back against, oppression are, it's face to jake tapir for joining us today. Everyone have a fantastic weekend and we will talk to you next week by everyone. If america is a crooked media production, the executive producer is Michael Martina. Our producers are Andy gardner, Bernstein and olivia martinez. It's mixed and edited by andrew chadwick. Jordan kanter is our sound engineer with audio support from kyle said when, in charlotte land thanks to halley, keefer, madeline herrings irish works, Andy tough and just how production support into our did

theme. Eliza, cone, Phoebe Bradford me a common then have cove and David told, subscribed to pod, save america on you too, to catch full episodes, exclusive content and other community events find us at youtube. Dot com, slash at pod, save american.