Donald Trump is making nice with CNN, snubbing Fox’s debate, and throwing an NBC reporter’s phone. President Biden and Democrats consider break glass options to avoid a debt default. Chasten Buttigieg chats with Lovett about his new book. And later, the racist texts that may have gotten Tucker Carlson fired.
For a closed-captioned version of this episode, click here. For a transcript of this episode, please email [email protected] and include the name of the podcast.
This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
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we save dot com, slash crooked! There is no safe like simply safe. The welcome to pod save america. I'm John favour of dan pfeiffer on today's show. Donald trump is making nice with cnn, snubbing fox's debate and throwing an NBC reporters phone. President Biden and democrats consider break glass options to avoid a debt default chest and buddha judge stops by cricket hq to talk to love it about his new book and later we'll talk about the racist texts that may have gotten tucker carlson fired, but first
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go subscribe. You will not be disappointed, are let's get to the news? Dan Donald trump is really have in a week
really having a week. Can we say
every week I met this week, yeah well will say it. A lot will say a lot, the twice impeach criminal defend it
who incited a violent insurrection is somehow once again in control of the republican primary and the media spotlight on Wednesday night help
dissipate in a live town hall on cnn, hosted by journalist, Caitlin Collins? This is trump's first appearance on cnn, since twenty six dean
in his first non maga media appearance, since he stormed out of a sixty minutes interview with Lesley Stahl in two thousand and twenty. I completely forgot that happened what twenty twenty player? Yes luck, or that access yeah. Let's go with that! No, the storming out of the interview I just I that was a that was a fun one as a fun one. Why do you think he's finally leaving the comfort of his maga media bubble? Smart move, dumb move.
Would, you think, will look if you get the opportunity to appear in a ratings rocket ship like see an annual pass. It up
like it wasn't a smart move. You know
Ask me next week after he's got on got on arable, see if you said something completely insane or if you use that I well. If, if he says,
I completely agree with this. Why there are, we
is to go on cnn and say completely insane thinks of why further strengthened his hold. The Republicans
nation and there are ways to go on cnn and make us life worse.
We will see how that goes. Yeah I mean I think the downsides are. He reminds most viewers why they don't ever want him to be president again, which is
You know it's a safe bet, most accuracy and at most
if the right the anniversary buzzer's of cnn, I obviously the upside, is he gets attention he's been a little starved for attention. Lately, he's a hasn't been twice
when he's not on t v a lot so he's looking for attention- and I think this will get him attention not only from the CNN audience but from other outlets that cover the town hall. Hes can show republican voters that you know he's the only one tough enough to take on the fake news. Ron. Desantis is just in his maga media bubble, and you know if a if Caitlin Collins calls out his bullshit and he gets in a fight with her. Then he knows that the maga media will defend him the next day and there'll be a rally round trump effect, because the the mean mean cnn, fake media tact
tromp to hack their favorite. President luck. It takes a brave man to take on the powerhouse it has seen, and these days I mean like there is like there is. Peace has not previously,
I think this is probably a win win for him. He fee does well.
Actually gets to reach our part
I threw see an amateur the coverage of it to republican voters who, like trumpet our skeptical of his ability to win.
He sent a signal, he's doing things differently than his disastrous twenty twenty campaign, and that has been for all
the insanity that is trop there. Is it the method, verses madness quotient in his twenty twenty three campaign so far has been slightly more in the method category, but there is a plan here, and this is
in that way can execute that plan. History with that aim at all abide you'll be
you understand, I understand why he is doing this and it makes some strategic sense given what he's trying to do both in this image.
The short term, are the primary and in the longer need to unify the party and appeal to people are pretty skeptical of him. Philip bump of the Washington post wrote a piece the other day, arguing that there is little journalistic value in broadcasting. Trump's comments live specially in a town hall format where it won't be as easy for kaitlyn to call out his bullshit as it would be in a one on one interview if it was just she and him for an hour, and what do you think about that is cnn
repeating there. Twenty sixteen mistakes is. This different depends a wish way. Sixteen mistake we are discussing. Is it the airing of the empty podium for
hours at a time to try to juice very viewers, they're not repeating that one either
much agree with without its enemies or not.
Arose value, would actually runs counter to the state of progress of journalism, wishes to act. If provider consumers enviers with accurate information and you're making a strategic decision to give them inaccurate in from
and, and that is not caitlin collins, his fault. I think she will do as well as anyone and holding him to account. She is definitely have you seen the question, her questioning him at press conferences. She is not afraid of him in any way, shape or form
but it's impossible to do it even in one on one in every possible way. What're you gonna do is do is keep asking over and over and over again as o'clock text about the one specific thing: no you move on, and so people the p
well who watch this will be exposed to this information and proper,
The exact is information that led to a violent assaults on the capital and so scene and, of course, they're going to do this. They would never turn this down. This is a chance at ratings. It's a chance to be relevant to think they ve been struggling with an but philip.
Wheatley right about that, the press still. I think they know how to cover trump, that they just don't want to make the tough decisions to do that. Yeah I mean I. I do think that there are. There have been a few interviewers with trump who been one on one who have done and that this is all relative, but have done some political damage to him like they have not been good news cycles following those interviews. Let's say it does not nothing lasts with trump or anything in politics, but savannah.
Jake Jonathan swan have all sort of interviewed trump in pretty tough ways. I think and not lie and most cannot lie. That's true! That's true. I mean it is, I forget, and if you've seen other cnn town halls with candidates, they've done with Biden with other candidates, it is both possible and necessary that caitlin asks to follow ups and fact them on the spot. After because, if you're, just going to, if you're going to, let voters ask
the questions and broadcast it. Then it's a fuckin mess. He just can't do that. Why we even let these voters get involved or well, because then he can do he's just going to run right over them and say whatever he wants. You know, but but caitlin could, if he lies to the voter step in ask them to follow up and there's so much to ask him to. I mean the fact that he hasn't done a media interview with a real journalist since fucking twenty twenty is nuts. Like all the indictments the insurrection stuff. There was four proud boys were just can
I did today of seditious conspiracy, including enrique Dario, the leader of the proud boys, which certainly doesn't bode well for a prosecution against trump for helping to incite the insurrection, since he is a buddy buddies with the proud boys. Just lots and lots of stuff to ask him will be watching out. Yeah we'll be watching we'll be watching. One place. Trump now seems unlikely to appear is the second and possibly first republican primary debate. So we talked about this possibility. A little bit on tuesday's pod. New york times has since reported that he is telling his advisers that
second debate, is a quote non starter for him, because it will be held at the ronald reagan, library which he hates, because they haven't invited him to speak over the last couple years. They invited to santos and some others, and because the publisher, the washington post, is on the board of the reagan library and of course he hits the washington post, and I guess he might want to skip the first debate, because quote he doesn't want to debate an august who does and because its hosted by fox news so might take on tuesdays. Pod was that there is real.
Little political downside and potentially some upside for trump, if he skips. But what do you think? I agree. I think it's that some ups potential upside it is pure upside that mean trump had a quote it. This is like one of the things that is not a watch rumpus that he doesn't really by into the parts of politics are useless to pretend so trumps argue
his was too this is debates are for people who are behind or even now people are ahead and on winning. So why would I debate, which is
that is strategically correct. We all
pretend otherwise about the value of public debate and exposed.
of the voters by from pure strategic point of you if you are winning
winning by a lot of mothers when you buy a lot is because your opponents cancun any attention. Why would you
like the one stage with you to have a moment to gain traction, it makes no sense.
sense for him when people say the trumpets and honest liar and that's why and people think he's like a to that's the kind of shit there talking about it
as most candidates, wouldn't say that out loud but trump just telling people yeah yeah. I'm ahead, I'm not going to take a risk and then have someone attacked me on stage. That's crazy! Yeah everybody does it
its it is strategically one or two percent correct. I don't know why you do us, I don't mind, taking argus off to make our life easier. If you didn't bait, not guessed but about it from
egypt point of view, this is all a site for him in its really bad news or understand us also like once you suffer no political consequences from your own party for inciting of violent insurrection and trying to stage a coup
You probably make the calculation that there won't be any political downsides. First skipping a few debates, yet heavy diagnosis like the whole, like you know, shoot someone in the middle of fifth avenue they as we're just so close to it actually
being true- I mean trump understands the leverage it. He has all the leverage here. No one knows who the rest of these yahoos are so he's in charge that people are going to tune.
see him. Also, if he does skip, would you think that means for the other candidates
and could you see the hour cancelling them altogether
Don't they, the rnc sea will cancel them because that puts them in a really upsetting, as they have plenty
though every single person who works there owes their job to Donald trump. They have pledged to make this aid. You know not
I know they're not going to put their thumb on the scale they're going to, while everyone from Chris Christie's asa hutchinson and nikki haley to have a shot, blah blah blah blah. I think for the network partners, they
pull the plug, or there certainly gotta, be very unhappy with the fact that that is it
that exact same amount of money to put on this debate, whether Donald trump appears or not and the amount you can.
Advertisers for commercials during that debate. Just
precipitously a trump doesn't debates, so maybe fox as brad
save that money is edited directly to dominion voting systems, I dunno, but I don't think the rnc or cancel, but it wouldn't surprise me if the other, maybe the other candidates plot, maybe it's not worth it to them or the network partner backs out,
Maybe he's just like falling in the forest do
and twenty sixteen, when the republicans
To tears, they like that
Top candidates run one stage, and, unlike the bottom, for candidates or another stage made how much
remember the curly fear rina, lindsey gram debates.
Twenty six did the other known as the under,
hard debate and then fur and then didn't for democrats and twenty. We decided to not go with an undercurrent debate. We just sort of pulled out of a hat to see who would go in which today
right when they d split it up, we did so to ensure that we never had all the most viable cannot sausage. At the same time, that was our planet, but the fact that it did you see the the store this morning that Tucker karlsson wants to host his own forum. His own debate and die he's already approach trump about it, smart that will rub. It happened right and then, if you're another, if the other candidates, they probably have to go,
of course the idea of it. I mean you can't you can't anchor tucker like you have to do it and they need to get on stage with trump every single one of them needs to get on stage. Have I do wonder to go back to the question where they cancel it, whether rhonda?
it is also pulls out a debate of trumpets not there, because war
at how diminishing is it for him to be onstage being attacked but they're all going to attack him, because now their new strategy is working to take out the scientist, so we can be one of all the trump a strategy that worked perfectly and twenty. Sixteen for all the anti trumps and so he's going to just be taking hits from asa hutchinson. I don't think that's good for him either. So I will say all the things we talked about so far are like very predictable developments that stem from the fact that Donald trump runs the republican party. He is the leader of the republican party. He is in full control of the republican party. No one has challenged him seriously and when no one challenges you, this is the shit that happens. There was a CBS poll out this week that just pulled republican voters
Sixty one percent want a candidate who says trump one in twenty twenty, so lot of people, s letter republican voters. Fifty eight percent said that they would vote for trump today, but seventy six percent are either say male vote for trump today or are considering trump seventy six percent of republican voters, that is his ceiling
in that poll. That is quite a big ceiling for a lot of people who are like well, there's a lot of trump fatigue and stuff like that, and you know I thought it might be possible to, but if seventy six per cent of people are considering voting for him hoof, could it could be? Could this could be over pretty quickly? I think yes, one hundred per cent. It could- and we said this before, but once the votes start coming in, if trump wins early, he's going to win em all and is going to win fast, because republican primaries are win,
take all or winner take most unlike democratic primaries, so the ability to survive a couple and like emerge later in the process. Why is not available to republicans the way it is to democrats in all of the other candidates, strategies which are like based on subtlety and issues, and all this other bullshit like there aren't panning out according to this poll, trump is winning among voters who want national abortion bans so much for and favor christians, so much for mike pence and he's winning among voters who want to challenge woke ideas so much for dissenters right, like at all
after are the rest of them are trying to do it's not that's not what voters want. They just want trump, we want trump or they want someone or they want to win. I mean the only
They read that they really want to win in they decide the trump can't help them. When that I think I continue think that the only way he could lose one of the reasons why these elect ability arguments are challenge.
It is it's hard to say, you're, more electable when you're getting your ass kicked by the person you say is not electable the threat that the problem so trumps, not yet the republican domini, but the party is already trying to screw with the general election debates. Washington post reports that the are has met with the heads of the broadcasts networks to see if they still air debates. If the debates were sponsored by an organization other than the commission on presidential debates, which is organised every general election debate since nineteen eighty eight,
what's there be for the commission dan, while everyone hates the commission, as they should Democrats ethnic mission because it generally
obviously the commission, because they ve had zero innovations or original thought, since they are hosted the first debate in eighteen. Eighty, eight them in the same format. Ever since some there's been some technology
all changes and how they will get their information since then, but why? Why would we possibly think something new data
here the commission, because in twenty twenty they were too feckless to enforce their own covered, required testing
garments, all donald trump and he came.
The debate reportedly affected with covert putting the president, his family never end,
was there at risk. Republicans
for more picky. Une reason hit the commission, because the commission selected Steve Scully of c span to be the moderator of a second debate and in
nineteen seventies. Is
Scully was briefly and in turn for Joe Biden. This was seen as
evidence that he
by us in this part of some major plot to take down. Donald trump
now I also remember it wasn't that debate without debate cancel a veto. It's a funny. I could not remain. I knew there was one debate
I knew there was a vice present to make us a fly, but I could not,
Well, whether one debate was to debate the steve sculley debate was a second debate. It was cancelled because trump had covered and they were annette.
Would you come up with a in agreement around some sort of remote?
and I was going obviously was a bind sleeper cell based on his interim programme. Liberal firebrands
here, the guy from c span so homage shooting the bombing campaign should care about this like how does this get resolved if you, if they just go around the debate commissioned by an interim campaigns, just negotiate themselves over me?
writers and forums and what they know they campaigns generally do negotiate with each other. With the I don't know how this works in twenty twenty given trump, but in the past there are meetings that are up convened by the commission are sometimes it on my back channel between the two continents around acceptable moderators. Would you be here this afternoon? You gave this one. That's all that happened in the past decade, that same process get theoretically take place with the
outside of the commission process where a b c could come to both campaigns and say we want to do a town hall style debate, focus on the economy and it can be moderated by george Stephanopoulos and robin roberts or whatever, and then the committee, the parties could say richard the turkey mince cause they were interested were not interested, we'd be interested, but do acts so that negotiation process could happen.
I think it that, if the commission process, as annoying as it is where to
while by the wayside. The odds that we actually have debates could go down pretty dramatically. Yeah. I could see that cause. Then you could see trump not wanting to debate. You could see by eye. You could see just no debate. Also the trump campaign is going to ask they're going to be like okay yeah, you get george Stephanopoulos and our moderators are going to be enrique terrier.
In prison and harlin crow, crow. The way it hardly Carlin carlin crows, nazi garden reluctance to debate is going to happen there. Ok, so one last sign. The trumps relationship with the press hasn't changed all that much since twenty sixteen vanity, fair charlotte, klein reports that back in march march, this is now may now
back in march, trump got so mad when NBC Von Hilliard asked him about the Manhattan DA's investigation that he grabbed the reporters to phones through them and said get him out of here.
Other journalists were there for the incident, including an axiom reporter, but somehow no one reported it until charlotte did this week. What's going on there
there. Do you think they do they not like making news that has a great fucking
question. This is one of the most bizarre things I have ever heard, because this happened in
it appears to be some sort of on the record cuban. I I would also note
that, even if it were not on the record q and a just the way,
These sort of background and off the record rules work is that if you throw something
phone that does not automatically with their bout all off
record is not like blake immunity, many things that, like if trump murders,
went on and off the record session, they want to keep it quiet forever, strangle them, but it was all about
That is why we have just ended
nor ministration official to life in prison. For its
It is bizarre. They didn't report it. It is the EU
more bizarre, although perhaps predictable that none of the involved outlets will comment on what happened about whether it
and why they didn't report, because there might be a reason. I can't for the life of me. Imagine what such a reason would be, but come out and
instead,
their silence about this right.
Forces all of the most negative stereotypes reporters it there are to come.
with powerful people, their trading there
for access people are saying that VON hillyard, the reporter people on twitter, have the about like, like maybe saving this for a book.
I don't know, that's because no one here you're did I'm sure he's a good guy, and
reporters liked to make news more
they like access or more than there is. The point of access is to make news, is not the yellow, canopies or something cracked up it's a bit.
Known for giving out cancer. This would be like this is a huge. This is a big story right. We know that over the years and when trump loses his temper and meltdowns a big story and they didn't report it, they won't say anything and that is deeply damaging, because it erodes trust in the press, which is why the main reason the media is in absolute, a state of absolute crisis right now is because people don't trust them all. The polling shows that trust in the media is at an all time low and that's not just republicans. It is a broad based erosion interest in the media and their behavior in this incident and how they've handled afterwards. It helps explain why that is. I have felt fairly good about my level of media criticism. Recently, I've tried to tamp it down a little bit, partly because and you've written books about this. Their interests are not the interests of the democratic party right like we can. They are for profit corporations,
who are looking for ratings? We cannot expect them to save democracy right and then there's plenty of good journalists were doing a great job, but I think that the cnn story this story over the past several weeks. I've been kind of thinking like we are just sort of walkin in two donald trump. As back he's gonna be the fuck nominee
we're gonna, be seventy thousand votes away from him becoming president again and everyone's just like. Well, I guess that's where we are. I get
if he's going to throw phone, I guess we're not going to say anything about it. We'll just put them in a town hall on cnn see what happens. You can take much talked about like he's a normal candidate
Analyze, like he's a normal candidate, the guy fuck, it incited an insurrection, tried to overturn the election. He it's just it's why
and I don't really know what to do about it like, except to go out there and fuckin win and beat him, but it's it's pretty troubling. It's pretty troubling, to say the least you ve done the first thing we should do about it, which it started: progressive media company to services
counterbalance to this insanity, so refugees to you- and you know we have talked about this before, but all
of us had agency in this right now we know about,
own story in people
can shocked to find out. The donald trump is not a mere rhetoric. It travels faculties. No, but it is a new story and it is relevant and if the press and tell it, we can tell it right, we can use all of our platforms and do it not just our park ass by the people in our lives
it, but it is you're exactly right that I just I there's this real like fiddling while rome burns sort of agitator, and I get it like the presses in an absolute crisis in this in the last couple weeks. Vice news bankrupt,
busby news guide lay offs its cnn cable ratings down, bynum washington post of all.
People struggling to make money and losing subscribers. You know the new york times succeeding,
but on the back of workable in recipes right like that is how these things are happening, and this is there
is, whereas in it we are in a crisis moment- and this is, I think this election has the potential to be the last best chance for the traditional political media to regain the trust of some people, not all people the summer gonna come back but some people and if they feel that test, that could be absolutely it for journalism. As we know, the idea of a fortress
state and the early signs are not great. There are some great reporting happening. There are some people who are doing this for aggressively mean just the fact that philip bump a washington post reporter said that other
media outlets shouldn't air trump live like a step in the right direction. There, the way
Let's see an end handled, the big lie: either people like tapir unhappy, philip Indiana, bash others after the twinkling election, was a step in the right direction.
But there are a lot of forces pushing in the wrong way ad and the temptation ace
a media business is suffering financially with donald trump. A ratings boost
on the horizon is a pretty dangerous combination for the future of the industry, partners is just a basic challenge, which is news is about what's new and so much of the worst of what donald trump has done. I mean he continues to do it every day, but so much of this is reminding everyone in the country what he did in the past and what he has said like you could say: oh yeah, the through VON hilliard phone, whatever. He also tried to grab the steering wheel of the secret service vehicle to go to the capital and partition
in the insurrection, help it's it's much worse than tossing the the phone, but like that's just another incident down the memory whole, because justino news is
news cycles are now like five minutes long I mean if there is an a and the media is breaking down and twitter's breaking down, and so it's like no one it it's the challenge. I think of this election is going to be
tenderly, reminding people not just of like where we,
where we could go but where we ve been and what has happened to us over the last four years in this country, especially with donald trump and I dont know- I didn't you
and I don't know if the media is equipped to do that, and I think one of the big challenges is just some of its not news, and so that the whole thing-
oh, don't normalize trauma he's normalized where its normal. We ve now lived through the last several years. It happened and its. If a is a tough, it's really tough challenge, even if the media were at their best, as institutions in this country lose trust in power. The media, social media companies, business, political parties, more and more responsibility for severe democracy gets pushed on the voters
You know about this, is that this is not the same as before. It's not gonna be fanny. Well s or Alvin, brag or bob mahler or jeffson sucker, or definition we just
What city an engineer times, you're going to lose thought the march of nag extremism it'll, be the voters in this next week,
that is at that as yet, that is the only actual volunteer and organise man. Don't you know that's not necessarily fair. It's not fund a here. It's tiring, its exhausting but like that's where we are and it's either go, do the work or let this happen so
Let's talk about the latest debt ceiling drama, one to another on may, ninth Joe Biden will be
meeting at the white house with the four top congressional leaders, Kevin Mccarthy, hakeem, Jeffries, chuck, Schumer and Mitch Mcconnell. The president and democrats are holding strong to their principle of not negotiating with hostage takers, but they're, reportedly looking at three different options for how to avoid default. One a discharge petition to declaring the debt limit unconstitutional under the fourteenth amendment and three, a two track strategy, where Biden and Mccarthy cut a deal on the budget that separate from a debt ceiling increase. Let's explain each of these scenarios and then talk about the pros and cons of each and the likelihood of each. Let's start with the discharge petition. How does it work? A discharge petition is a method available to the majority of house members to force the speaker
to hold something to hold a vote on a bill. Now that requires a two hundred eighteen members, a majority of the house, to sign the petition and there's a lot of it. While the reasons why he bore very sceptical discharge petition can be used to avoid the fault was
It is a very time consuming and logistics heavy process. The bill has to be on the calendar for thirty days. There has to be a rule, then there than theirs
I am after you get, then you have to get the signatures and there's the time effort signatures, but for all the people who say, I think often unfairly. The Democrats know what they're doing they handled this brilliantly last.
More than a month ago, they had marked us on the eight who is a very good, but relatively anonymous congressmen introduced a bill called the break. The gridlock act just file that no one paid attention. It sat there for
Thirty days and now we're can be able us start getting signatures on this petition on may sixteenth, it will become ripe and that one
and if you assume that the date is early june, there is it
This is not easy to do. There are challenges we will talk about, but the logistics the demo
solve the logistic problem by thinking ahead in being very smart and strategic about it. It's good that they shall have a bill to
Why is that? You need a majority to sign onto the bill to in order to discharge the petition and and and hold a vote, which means that Democrats would need a couple of repel house republicans five right now. Five have five house republicans right now, even the house republicans most likely to say they would side with the Democrats on this, like don bacon of nebraska right. One of the more moderate republicans has said a nose. No clean debt ceiling increase still like they're still against that, but you could imagine some kind of negotiation between democrats and some of the more moderate republicans that if we get to the break last moment, then the republican sign like if Kevin, mccarthy and Biden talks collapse. If no one can come to an agreement, we're heading towards the disaster. You could imagine some of these republicans signing on with Democrats, for maybe some other fig leaf negotiation, and then you put that all on the shell of a bill, because the actual bill hasn't been written
yeah and then you're off to the races. So it's possible one that that that again, the the biggest challenge laugh, they have solved the logistics challenge, the biggest challenge left is they don't have five republicans yet on on this bill, all right? What about by declaring the debt limit is unconstitutional under the fourteenth amendment? This is part of the fourteenth amendment. Here's what it says. The validity of the public debt of the united states authorized by law, including debts incurred for payment of pensions and bounties for services in suppressing insurrection or rebellion, shall not be questioned. This is what the clause reads: the fourteenth amendments of these amendments after the civil war that grants citizenship to everyone in the country. It's seen as a civil rights amendment, obviously, but it also included this provision about public debt because they wanted to protect the public debt held by the federal government and prohibit the payment of debt
by the confederate states. Should they regain power in the congress again, so it was done because of that, but the language is there, and so a lot of legal scholars have said well. If, if the debt shall not be questioned, then the debt limit is unconstitutional. So what do you think about that play by and just goes out there and says the debt limit? Is unconstitutional? Here's the problem with this
approach, I think it is at best illegal jump ball. You can find legal scholars who say it shows that lives on constitution. You can say that it absolutely does not, and so that means it will head to the courts and do we really want to put the fate of the global economy in the hands of these courts in a process that ends in the supreme court?
even if you get the right ruling in the beginning. So let's go, let's go licit was, is, I would say, we get to the end, and this, I guess, is
We have. This could play out if there is no solution. We cross acts date estate is the date when which we have no more money to pay any more
and the united states just give yellow the president just say: we're gonna keep paying the bills because the member, and so therefore that could stave off potential collapse for a few days
and people veterans, so scared recipients. Others can continue to get there, though chaskey using to flow, and that would prevent like real individual harm to people buy it
It happened very shortly after that is someone files soup
stays it says you can't do it and now we're in crisis or you have
He rulings and it goes rights report and how do the markets respond to that level of uncertainty, but
Our markets are well, yes, my guess is evil
you're waiting for the supreme court to decide the markets go crazy because the cost of borrowing suddenly skyrockets, because you don't want to issue if, if, if you're, going to issue debt or buy debt, and then the court later decides that that debt actually shall be questioned and then they're good, so they're going to ink it's going to increase the costs of borrowing in the markets,
great credit and not just our markets all across the entire world, because u s debt is up until recently has been seen as the safest financial instrument in the world. In some of that is all the sun in the hands of harlem.
Rose buddy like where our they can respond to that, and so this is
not. This is a
bright glass solution? That may not really be a solution, but other people are just like do this and it's all over or know. We've talked on this for you to print the trillion dollar coin, and it's oliver and that's not the case, because there is a process here to keep the markets in wine and the courts. Have a lot will have a lot to say about it. I will say I saw one suggestion that was interesting to me, which is instead of coming out and saying the fourteenth amendment means the debt limit is unconstitutional. Once we hit the date, you actually do it like next week and then the court and then the case goes to the court. While there is still time to exercise other options, and so the markets don't go nuts
earlier crazy, because we have the time to wait for the court to decide before we hit ex state. I am really out of my death here. By isn't there a question of standing? There could don't you have to show injury to get before the court was I'll. Let you know if you could.
You could sue JANET Yellin, let's let's,
it's up to to the real sister electric to urinate yeah. That's, alright! That's all! Yes, if you, if you can hear us greatly to us, please let us know do we did. Did we consider this in the in two thousand eleven in the white house like what did what did Geitner say about this? Where the lawyers say about this I mean I feel like I might be stepping on volume, two of promised land-
Haven't you got time there,
It was a as I recall it and if I'm trying
You're gonna remember: twenty twenty, a dark here, try to imagine memory, twenty eleven, a quite to hit if enough of that.
Don't wait when you might not have funnier for cyclists
There is a sense that, beyond the legal arguments that, if president obama had done either the trillion dollar current or the fourteenth amendment would be hoping himself up to impeachment, and
the sense that there would be it would not. If we were operating in a world of different norms back, then
and I dunno what the lawyers thought, but I this was never a live option that rose really being seriously considered. If I recall correctly, yeah in between would be bad they're looking for an excuse anyway. So what do you think about the two track strategy idea,
I know I heard you assignment is on tuesday that
what strategy is really just kicking the canned down the road, because
for me. The reason you very very congress thing to do, which is great. Like him like that
by more time by more time by more time, if there's a way to do that, that could be something comes out of. This is to try to
align the debt limit and the in the budget for government funding bells the problem with that for Democrats,
is now you're just going to have this negotiation again, but you ve handed the leverage on government funding to the republicans, because once again doing at under the ticking clock
default. This is a situation. Obama found himself in a twenty thirteen people forget that the governments actually shut down during the debt crisis, because the two were aligned because they had actually
after the twenty, let a crisis started to align them to make it easier to if the debt limit and then the Republicans Sunday reason not to do.
again and so yes, you would have you you'd have another three months to possibly come up with a solution, but it's a pretty narrow menu in all of the option we ve been working on for months and all the options sought for some one. The either are Democrats one
the white Mccarthy list
His job summit goes the courts, and so, let's move
the crisis further along and hope, it something changes, but, as I dont suspect and allow the change was a thing, though: isn't the binding, ministration and democrats going to have to negotiate forget, but the debt saint say there was no debts, ailing crisis they're going to have to negotiate over the budget and government funding eventually, and there could be a shut down eventuality and they'll have to get out of the shot down eventually, and the only way to get out of a shut down is to make some kind of deal about the budget. That enough republicans can
I live with so that it passes the house. That is true like at some point at some point, they're going to have to negotiate over the budget. You just the whole point of the not negotiating stance is you do not want to have the conversation where your opponent has a button to push to blow up the economy? If you don't come to agreement on their terms right, but they will have a button to put, but they could have a button to push on the government shutdown which is not as serious
as breaching the debt limit, but still something that you're going to have to get out right. But that's that's been true every october, one since beginning the preparation process, and so that the
and we have a government a shut down before we have a process for doing it. Like we know we, the fellow member, knows how to manage that process to minimize disruptions as much as possible, so very painful for a lot of people. There is a history of ensuring that federal workers get paid back afterwards. There is a way to prioritize the people.
Well- who are most of all in one situation, no such processes or experience exists for default right. I'm just I'm just saying this, because I could see a scenario where the Biden folks and the Democrats were like look. We negotiated a deal around the budget, so we could avoid a shutdown, and that was separate from this other negotiation. We had where we said alright lift the debt ceiling for a year and we kept it separate. Like we said great now, I get
works. If there is an agreement. Yet dahlia did, though, yes, that that isn't, that is hardly likely how this adds evidence is something other than global financial collapse by the timing of that is tricky, and there is a lot of pitfalls to it, and if you have months, maybe you can figure it out without approaching ex david view. In approaching the estate you're right back, where you are right now we are getting close people. We are then close. There are not that many days on the congressional calendar between now and estates, which people think people, meaning the treasury secretary thinks could come in early june that release june first,
so buckle up buckle up when we come back chest and buddha judge stopped by the studio to talk about his new book with love it. This show a sponsored by better help. How much I mean do you spend on yourself in a given weak versus how much time you spent on other people and how to balance the two now well, tough to balance the to one or other people,
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Joining us today. He is a teacher, the first gentleman of transportation and the author of the book. I have something to tell you charged in buddha, judge rung to the pod thanks thanks for having me alright, so I feel like we're in
in the middle of a reexamination right now for kids that were born in the eighties in this period of growing acceptance, but not acceptance ma, and I think this book is about what it means.
To grapple with being gay, when there were in some ways of bromides of tolerance but a deeper way in which being gay was still something to be afraid, I've or afraid you were
and the kids. Today they have no idea what it was like yeah. Well. That was a one of the thing that I had to keep thinking about. While I was writing, it was like. Will the youths get this like? Will it will it mean anything while this kind of story matter will it resume were when richard
at one survivor that first spoiler alert season one a survivor from the united any nine did. You watch survive
at nine, when richard hatch one thinks. Oh all, my parents were big survivor fans, I'm sure, giving
was good or bad. That
It is gay man, one survivor and then didn't pay taxes, ok
I don't know anything about it. So I don't know so he won survivor. He was out. He was a real snake. He was the first person to really crack that you can, like you know you could like make alliances and stuff he really. He was really ahead of the curve. It's why he won the first season.
and he was gay and was a big deal, but he was also a new test and many to pay taxes on the money and had gotten trouble that you may go to jail can go to jail. We think richer hatch may have gone to jail for not being taxes in europe.
We're texas, so I wonder it's like you know the level of exposure you get from richard hatch. Was he out on sir? Yes, he was out on survivor is a huge deals. Nineteen, ninety nine while and he is- and he's unapologetic, but he's
when nudist and making people a little bit uncomfortable being naked. All the time ha but gay people are complicated. I get oh yeah, I guess those are two completely different things and that's the most important thing, but
to your point in the book about not having gay role models when there are that many out gay people of a sudden, richard hatch, is a representative of the game.
Indeed, there aren't a lot of other people who are out on television series. Again you resist, pays taxes yeah. I can see how people would quickly label someone like that. The same thing like will and grace yeah. You know I love will and grace, but will and grace was so problematic for me, because if I laughed too much, I was afraid that my family would think. I liked it a little bit too much and there might be a reason behind
But then, of course, you know willing grace only
showed gay men portrayed in certain ways. You know there's only certain types of game and that you could be, or we had to be the butter, the job
yeah, like everybody else, comfortable right, you know jack is fine
and loving life, and then we'll kind of is lonely and single and quite unhappy. A lot of blood successful by a professional, so he is accepted because he's dislike suit wearing successful man who puts you, know career above love And- and I think that was a whatever that's- that's a soapbox that we probably don't have time for today, but do you think that
the gay community was hurt by the number of turtleneck people were wearing on russia's because, if you other short knack, eternal eggs aren't for you turtle eggs aren't for me. I use of such as you
can't wear a turtle. I am upset that I can't wear a turtleneck and get were trolling. Are you sure you part of the short next community? I don't as maybe that's what they would tell me at the departments
sorry, but I feel, like everyone rocks this like suit turtleneck look I can't do. I can't do it at all. If you feel that your head looks too low, I just feel like a funky. Why do you think that is because you have a short neck too? Shall we talk about
I think it's because I have a really short neck
I think I have a really short neck and I think that total next in those shows really kind of hurt me. I really sorry about that. Thanks for some all of the things going on the eightys and ninetys, I really don't like the turtle eggs.
so who were you know we talk about not having a lotta Gabriel miles in the back, who stood out to you going out like who? Did you look to start? Why didn't I
have that many role models
as willing grace and of
this time. I also didn't know that some of these celebrities that I had grown up with were gay
I guess I was also something that wasn't talked about, but then in closet, then they our, who have the exact or some of them will have to be, but Ellen was huge because my mom loved Ellen.
And that to me was like a little sliver of hope. Yeah, like maybe she's, a successful person. She makes my mom laugh there. Ok with that, and we don't
talk about the lesbian thing, it's money I wrote. I brought my eye. Was
you about Ellen too, because I didn't realize
How much alan meant to me until Ellen was getting the presidential metal of freedom from
president obama and I realized in watching her get that met all that. I went through this whole cycle of
finding out Ellen was gonna come out watching at watching the whole new cycle being incredibly riveted and invested in it.
Never saying it out loud because it wasn't for another couple of years.
that I ended up coming out and it wasn't until I saw Ellen accepting that metal of freedom.
That I'd never even spoken out loud
how much that had meant to me at the time. Did you talk about it? Or is it just an entirely internal experience?
talk about Elinor like yet in watching Ellen, come out well received and say what
that appears to me that you experience completely privately. Yes, I don't you
come out till I was eighteen. You know these conversations.
My family after the fact yeah- and there are so many signs along the way right like yeah- definitely should have not it's, because we didn't talk about them like we didn't talk about this huge moment, you know, and in pop culture, when Ellen came out,
until until much later, and that was really emotional for me to watching her get that metal, because I think some people may assume that we have progressed so rapid.
we and then, when you really take a moment and and look at history, just like the last thirty four years of my life, like what has happened like being born at the tail end of the aids epidemic,
today were alike, understanding that I'm in washington with a partner who serves you know in that
would not have been the reality. Thirty years ago, like watching Ellen, get that metal, and you want two years and understanding that, like she lost everything when she came out when, when her character came out when she came out and then
So much has happened in that very short period of time, but I feel, like our memories, don't keep up with that that timeline, understanding that it's, that timeline is actually very, very short yeah. It is it's it's em. It is amazing, and I think one thing that I I think about when it comes the amount of change we've had is even as there was this conversation around shifting norms around accepting difference on sexual orientation. There wasn't a conversation about masculinity at all, and you talk about this a little bit in the book about like not wanting to play football, but wanting to go fishing not feeling totally like, like you're one of the boys and- and I do wonder like it that that that does seem to be changing now. But you talk a little bit about that. Like the kind of your relationship to just
forget: sexual annotation, just masculinity and being a you know, oh yeah, I I mean masculinity had to look a very certain way. You know the circles that I was growing up in church and four h, and I
in our our high school was like the school, where people would occasionally drive their snowmobiles to school like their tractors right or you know, people who clung to like very certain idols of manhood or masculinity, and I just didn't see a space for me and I sometimes I
like. I have to extend them like a a shred of pity too, because I feel like we're all just trying to blend in, like that. I didn't really have a group to get caught up in in some of them just got caught up in that right, yeah! It's this like performance. I wonder, like I say, I'd, be interested to hear you talk a little bit about like what you want. The the younger generation to take away from you
this experience of growing up at a time when you really were expected to conform. That was it in. You felt that pressure everyday yeah. I mean that I certainly wrote the book from my experience as the experience of a gay person, conforming in surviving coming out and now reflecting back on that, but I think the book as furred for any young person who's ever thought, like a fish out of water, are a person who is phallic. They are forced to conform, and I also think it it'll be a great resource for teachers and parents to understand what young people are going through, what they could be going through, and you might be unaware of that, and also the pain and the hurt. Those inflicted upon young people by ignorance and the good that can come from having these conversations in me.
in space for everyone, but so ah I want to have. I have some silly questions for you, but before we get there, those were at the silly question now just buckle up for a turtleneck was a cilic. What was it? I was more of a categorize aside. I was just an aside that came to me in the moment. Ah, you know you go through your first round of coming out. You know you had a bush bumper sticker on your car at some point that right, yeah that came off yeah where you got a new different car, but you don't think that way anymore. Obviously, but you you kind of go through that. First round
and and- and you kind of I dunno, I know for me- I think it's true for a lot of people when they first come out. They go through their kind of zealot of the convert kind of phase right at the beginning. But for me it's taken me till ah till forward
in an age that are currently am to realise how much internalized
phobia and more than that, like internalized performance of masculine,
I carry round even to this day, even in moments where I'm using a voice that isn't
as a feminist, as I might otherwise have used our podcast voices?
is my I mean I don't know. I mean this is our podcast voice, but I don't know I don't know of is this is?
is my voice could be. Maybe that could be gayer totally
totally and noise. I drop into my pocket voice sometimes, but he
It's pretty, but even as you say in your pocket, voice is strader voice
it's a very high, always and even when I'm asking a serious I'm going,
sillier. Now my voice is getting bigger and gayer, but when I ask a question about something important, my voice becomes like this. I dont know that that's enough,
ro. I think that might be a performance am I am. I wonder if you feel about that,
even now you re this book about short of what it means to try to figure out how to be yourself. But
even now don't you do feel right now that you can ever kind of be outside of the bounds you set
you were a kid when you were living by these fears, is that the gayest, your voice can be now
It can be gay or should see me on karaoke. It can be gay, can all be gay or we can use gay voices
is a guerre voice for the rest of us, so I think were were constantly coming to terms with who we
We had to be when we were younger, who we thought we could be when we came out and then the the that space and between re like
still policing yourself, yeah are used to seeing that you're still, please all that. I will also because of you know where I met in life.
I know that so many people are watching everything that I do and everything that my family dozen and I'm you note pairing that with
the absolute destruction of morality on the other side of the hour it now and
Understanding that how they will weapon eyes, my family, my children and my performance of masculinity or identity am conscious of that more than I would like to admit, because that's what's the big deal now, I certainly never thought that I would be in this chair one day. You know I never thought that my family would be who we are,
today, just this weekend, the peat an hour it pushing stroller in there is like these corner preachers and our neighbourhood, and we walked by.
am like. We had just gone to a little indie bookstore celebrating like indie bookstore saturday, and we like sat down with the kids like picked out some books and, like detract ranch, coloring sheets now drag brunch. Can okay, tara wasn't performing on saturday
but you know you're having a great morning like.
celebrating our neighbourhood and going to the subtle store and and
pushing the stroller we're gonna go to another indy bookstore, and these corner preachers like
Look at these homosexuals, like those aren't their kids.
They're, just like yelling and their microphones at us, and then I'm in my head, like what?
I say as a parent. What do I want to say as a human and what I want to say as a gay man, you know and and then of course you know like now, don't say anything because I don't want to give this person a platform,
and I don't want to. I don't want this person to know that I care about what they have to think you know, but it just sometimes just
not creeping in but crashing in, but so that's when its crashing in, but what about the times when it's not so clear like,
You were hinting at of a little better. I'm actually genuinely curious about like moments when you feel this sort of creeping header, a normal tivydale. This desire to make sure,
that you're, that you're being a not just being good parents, not just being a good sign.
But doing it in a way that is good for the movement that helps the cause amongst people that might not be totally comfortable yeah. What does it look like hell? I ones
confusing to me, because I remember a garment
being on the cover of time magazine, which was like life shock and then like
the conversation around it was like they are just performing hetero native, like hetero normativity, I like to me as like. I am just on or something
armor on my partner and I posing for this photo I'm not trying to perform anything. It's just who I am same thing with, like the kids like I've always wanted. Kids, I've always wanted to be a dad. In fact, I
sort of new. I wanted to be a dad more that I in on knew I wanted
a teacher or a writer, something I've always wanted, and now I have this great family and loving spouse
to really cool kids and I never get around ascending the christmas cards, but it you know if I did they probably cute when it's not like some. That's not something I feel
I'm performing, but I understand why people assume that, but also like can't can't queer people just be family
it's to like, what's hetero normative about it. Can we just also just want to raise a family and be a family right right it, but it is there's em. I do sometimes think we talked with the pat that, like I sometimes you, ah and PETE uk, especially pete gets you know. I certainly gay enough to be despised on fox news and he held out an example and and to be met.
You know to be used as a cudgel during a natural disaster or train derailment, in a way that no previous secretary of transportation would ever be use your having kids being held up paternity leave for parental leave being treated as some are now some horrible thing to take. Even though everybody takes it so draws that act that that acrimony and yet because there is, on the other side the sense that what you're doing
is criticised as being not gay enough right. That he's not met. Gallagher he's mckinsey, and at that something that means there is no. There is not the same level of
was not as far nor its not as exciting to us anymore. It's it's it's! It doesn't get there
same level of kind of love from the left either. Do you find that europe does that? Does that ring trudy? You are certainly come on social media.
So you know yeah I, but I I also get it like. I get wanting to see. Progress happen faster and I especially understand from when I'm talking to young people who get really frustrated about the the slowness of progress in our country where they might see. Someone like me come in and sit across from them then be like you. Don't you don't know what my life is like you don't know what it's like dashes. Why I try to do as much listening as I can and growing. I think it's important that we all commit
constantly growing in listening, which I don't think the other side of the AL gets like with this stuff, like with masculinity. Now the culture wars, specially trans americans, rather than like pause and listen to the wider american medical community advocacy groups, they just like built up a wall around them right like work clinging to like what we know. We don't want to do anything different and I see it differently
right before electric out, where your rapid fire hook? Alright, let's get into it, are you going to the or the way the heiress tour taylor? Swift? No, it couldn't get tickets. Ah favorite taylor, swift, song ooh. I knew he had tickets come on. He can get tickets,
Can it pull some strings? I saw a video. This morning was like a dad dancing with his daughter to a taylor. Swift concert, and there are all these empty chairs next sounds like excuse me
Suppers, where was this, and when was this okay favorite, her song, mine's exile? I love that song exile really yeah, and I, like the moody stuff I like poignancy, I like mean all too well ox was so great, was a good breakup song for me, too. What's the worst gift pete has ever given you
and he actually didn't. I dropped. So many hints that I thought it'd be really cute to give each other gift on our wedding day. So many hints like I really like this tradition, that I've heard from people, and so I got him cufflinks and I, like nice, had a friend like sneak into his. You know room the day of the wedding and like leave the card and the cufflinks and thoughtful yeah, and nothing nothing.
And I'll never ever forget. What is the gasolene? Will you don't you
forget it? But what is the gazing you if you want on tv,
watch a lotta tv were, I guess, the white lotus big jennifer collection,
I hope that we can again look count. It you both watch white lotus, gather, yeah. Okay, I mean busy guy, we don't watch a lotta tv, mostly books, huh.
We don't want books on the tv regional unite all right? What's
gay value hope to impart to your children?
a value. Gay value don't
right after labour day, don't mix blew a navy love each other. I dont know you tell me you can be
when you wanted to make. I dunno I was trying to raise them to be like kind, inclusive people, but I I guess they do like their fair share of show tunes right now. Okay, we do show tunes at breakfast like no andrew, lloyd, webber. That could be like a wire gay guy. Such bad drivers. Are they yeah yeah you're? Not aware of that statistic may not know about you know, tongue, that unit I'm talking about,
ok? Well, why? Why don't you answer the question? I don't know. I actually dont know I'm such a bad driver. If I knew
it'd be a little bit better at it. Huh I think I'm a great driver, but everyone thinks they're a great driver. That's the whole problem. I got two kids in the back of my minivan and minivan. Oh, it's a minivan, it's a plugin
red, meaning a plugin hybrid, many man, you know it is, I don't know. I think that the hate crime. What has kid? What does it kid? Did you see on tv that you completely love but new on some level you shouldn't, because it wasn't what boys loved minors, when miss piggin joan rivers go crazy with the make up in my mistake, manhattan member that german that I feel
You got way too much time to prepare for this. I thought it is five seconds for this interview. Olivia can attest market segment, hen, miss piggy she's.
Disappointed in her carmel comes back. All despondent, joan rivers gives her make
where they loser. They get fired from the department store german. That.
No, and are you gay or not, I know all utah these great stories like. Do you understand how like closeted and traumatic, my childhood was like? I was probably mucking a barn and, like you are cleaning the fish, you are doing the fish things and
What's with the goat quit, how do we find the guy? Not from look Michigan? I know where it is. You got to watch journalism is piggy and on how we live in turn. It off, and god sign clean the barn and enter that's what you did you clean the barn, but cod with it was what
the question that gas thing I largely gay as thing you saw as a kid on tv, but knew you weren't supposed to like spice world. Ok, that's good spice world counts. That's that
camp that's. I was at last when I was at summer camp. I didn't like playing all the sports and I wanted to come home.
and the owner of the camp called my mother and said for boys like Jonathan. That's why we do the musicals care to comment no bright eyed. I just wanna. Go
act like the conversation while like are you gay? Are you not gay enough, and then you just asked me if I am gay cause, I didn't see him as peggy and joan rivers on tv hey. I want you know something
I feel like the bus came out of nowhere. I thrown right underneath it and well, if there's a bus commander, nowhere talk to your husband. That sounds good.
Interpretation problem to me, I have never said that I wasn't hypocrite, I'm a proud hypocrite, I don't always makes sense and I'm not coherent- and I stand by that. That's that's good of you. I'm doing is one ok,
How do you feel about this? This was a us was certainly an experience that we all shared together in one room. How do you feel like you're at I just wanna know that you felt good about it
nah yeah, so you didn't get to go on and this is stuff. I could talk about all day, though I think these are really important conversations. I appreciate having it and you couldn't go on Kelly clarkson because of the writers' strike
so now, this union's swearing grammar supporting unions, but this is so. This became like you, flew out here, and I are just basely doing this
Come on don't be me,
You're softly that anything else. We should talk about the
as I have something to tell you thanks for it, thanks for having the conversation cause. I also think it's really important that, like you know, you have this platform and it's great that you get to talk about what I want well yeah, but I mean sure, I'm sure that
It's important to you to take air environed on some of these things and I'm glad people as any finally found out that I'm gay,
yeah. I think this is going to be a bombshell for a lot of your listeners and and and my parents- oh my god, my parents listen to this. Ah mom dad. I have something to tell you, I'm still
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Before we go a little quota
the saga behind Tucker carlson's firing last month, the new york times just reported that during discovery in dominions lawsuit against fox, they found a text. The tucker sent his producer just hours after the january sixty
section where he talks about watching videos online were group of white men attacked a so called anti fuck it here's what the text says. It was three against one at least jumping a guy like that is dishonourable. Obviously, it's not how white men fight yet suddenly I found myself rooting for the mob against the man, hoping they hit him harder. Key
him? I really wanted them to hurt the kid I could taste it then somewhere deep in my brain and alarm, went off this isn't good for me, I'm becoming something I dont want to be my audience becoming yeah. So what you think is this believable as the final straw that caused fox to fire tucker, absolutely fucking, not.
Ok, what do you think? Not because the entire sentiment behind that text has been the plot line, a fox news for twenty years? It is a in it is a corporation who has been sewing: racial division for profit
political gain, since it showed up on the air. That is what they do now. Maybe they have a role that says when it comes to racism showed no tell, and if you speak, the words out loud you'll get fired, but this,
that somehow the you know the thoughtful people. Fox news were shocked by this relation than I watch. The fuckin show that for the show
about a mean there is a while. Well it's funny, you should say that, because you don't we where no new york times here, but we can report that our crack team crooked has discovered more explosive audio of Tucker that somehow slipped right, past foxes, exactly
let's take a lesson, white supremacy, that's the problem is a hoax there's, no evidence that white supremacist were responsible for what
in January six, that's a lie. We have a moral obligation to admit the world's poor. They tell us, even if it makes our own country poor and dirty and more divided. So it might be time for Joe Biden to let us know what can Tajik brown jackson's elsie t score was well. How do you do in the assets didn't even want to make a racial issue out of it all the veto white replaced? But none of this is.
Voting rights question, I have less political power
because they are importing a brand new electorate? Why should I sit back and take that? And the truth is unregulated? Mass immigration has badly hurt this country's next
landscape for somewhat precisely sure how George floyd died. Very few unarmed black men are killed by white cops. These days words, George floyd, when you need them the only jobs.
winning programme this administration has gotten behind in two and a half years is getting black people to sell more weed in the cities- lovely just lovely. I will say that beauchamp at vocs had a good piece about this
and basically his argument is both the texts and the show are racist, racist intent, but the difference is what he says on the show is intended to make white people think that they are the victims of reverse racism, liberalism, Democrats, importing and new electorate just to win an election and what he said in the text is just why people are better than black. People, essentially, is what he said in the text and in there's a but again them there's racist intent to both one on the show is a strategy to make why people think oh you're, not the racists there being racist against you and the text, its Jes. Oh, no, no, no white people wouldn't act like that. That's just the behaviour of non white people, and so I do wonder if that for the fox executives, they were like. Well, that's if that comes out in court
That's too, it's too honest. It's too it's too much of a pulling back. The veil for tucker was also the rooting for the guy to be killed right, yeah, that's the other thing that sort of gotten lost in this whole thing like I realize at the end he said, but then I realized this is. I shouldn't be becoming this person, but he's sitting there with fucking wanting this kid to be killed and saying he could taste it so like yeah, someone who's that fuckin violent as your most popular
cable, primetime, cable host come up. I just at the end of the day. I believe that the only reason that they fired Tucker karlsson was because they believe that he was going to hurt them financially yeah. Oh, I think that, oh, I think that, even if this text,
the one that did it. They would think that this yet did that's what it is its athenais world, yes, is number or out reality. No, no! It's not moral aiding like pop your buddy, Paul Ryan was on the board. There anyway
This is it. I must take a stand, and you know
as I obviously they all financial, but I do wonder if it's just like there's a there was a number of things around Tucker and this was sort of the straw that broke the camel's back. I could see that
remember back in twenty a teen they fired and that one of the executive in charge of news and editorial, because he,
He was so upset at the diversity of the. U s, winter olympic team that he wrote about that about it and that which is so bigoted and homophobic in every way, shape or form
the fire, but even though, all of the underpinning themes of that that that up ad ran through the coverage every single day
It's when you, if you just say the words out loud in a way that gets you caught that if you you lose the subtlety to your racism in your grievance politics, etc, then you can get fired, but that this is not the grievance politics and the racism that upsets them. Yeah. Well, we'll we'll see Tucker when he hosts the first republican presidential debate. Part of that story also by the way said he wants to do this because he wants to be quote more than a podcaster tough.
It anyway. Thank you just due to judge for stopping by the studio. Everyone have a great weekend and we were taught you next week by everyone. Pod save america is a crooked media production. The executive producer is Michael Martina. Our producers are anti gardner bernstein in Bolivia, Martinez its mixed in edited by andrew chadwick. Jordan. Canter is our sound engineer with audio support from kyle segment in charlotte Landis thanks to Halley keefer madeline hearings are schwartz, Andy task and justine. How for production support into our digital team, Elijah cone, Phoebe Bradford me a common then have coat and David told subscribed to pod save america on youtube. To catch full episodes, exclusive content and other community events find us at youtube: dot com, slash at pod, save america.
Transcript generated on 2023-05-13.