The welcome to pod save america. I'm John favour of dan pfeiffer on today's show. Donald trump can't stop incriminating himself after he was caught on tape. Talking about classified war plans, the supreme court rules against affirmative action Joe Biden delivers a major speech on by biodynamics, and why does communications director Ben the bolt stopped by to talk about the strategy behind it? then, the on again off again romance between trump and Kevin Mccarthy has hit the skids once more. But first presale tickets for pod save america live, shows in dc and new orleans are available now, and you know at the end they're going fast or they yeah. They are it's where it says

resale. Codes are only available to members of our subscription community friends of the pod, where you can also access exclusive bonus kind and like our terminally online pod, the din and I had a very fun time recording with pre aka analyzer. Yesterday we also fun discord channel where all the friends, the pod, hang out and yell about the news. That's a lot of fun and there's a lot more content, so sign up its it's crooked dot, com, slash friends and again, the presale for the life shows ends at eleven. Fifty nine p m on june. Twenty ninth so go get that code sign up get. Those tickets are at least get to the news, moments. After we recorded tuesdays pod, there was, as always, some breaking news cnn obtained the audio recording of between twenty one meeting in bed. Minster new jersey, where raw donald trump tells a few random ghosts

It is to look at highly classified war plans that he admits he couldn't to classify. Let's listen he's in bad shape. Your cue Now you started right now he's talking about if they were trying to do that before you even were sworn in. That's right. you're always milly Let me see that a shining example he said I wanted to attack As you have a big pile of papers, this thing just came look. This was him they present many of the rank of it they presented made us. This was him. This was the defence, the forbidden him. We looked at him. This was him. This was done by made. This was in

also its pages, I just amazing system, when's migration, except it is highly secretive, look, look at this faq and Hillary. Would that all the time, the anthony weiner, a pervert by the way, a credible. Because we're talking about any occasion he wanted. attack are wrong. Please this was done by the moment given to me, I think we can probably stiegler here since prison,

I'm gonna be like now. I can't gabrielle interesting so cool, so look we arrive and you, I almost didn't believe me, but now it's incredible. it brings to bridge the gulf stream, was bring some coaxing plea. It's so awesome listening to it every time. Every time it surpassed all expectations, just and I was reading about my oil we, finally here the audio. What's that got to do you know what it's worth it to quote donald trump. Do you think that totally wins his case, There are other examples where sometimes a movie is better than the buck. Criticism of the fact that there are so many good parts of this, my favorite, maybe when one of the women feels the need to clarify that the coup she is referring to withdraw the coup. He did it wisely a coup against him, just like those of a girl.

The coup against you, it's so good, it's honestly perfect He goes out of his way to admit all the crimes out of his way so many times he said so many like if there was any he raises any doubt just in the look at this. I just found this. This was him. This was the defence department. Hilary would printout stuff like this all the time. It's classified it secret. It's off the record I could have done, swear before. But now I didn't look at my secret war plans that you're not supposed to see. I mean it's just yet, damn you might be thinking. Aha, I'd like see trump wriggle his way out of this. Well, unfortunately, for us he used his persuasive powers in command of details to put on a master class in crisis communication. When he was asked about this you're, not concerned with your own voice on those on those recordings. My voice was fine

What did I say wrong? Those recordings I didn't even see the recording all I know is. I did nothing wrong. We had a lot of papers, a lot of paper stack. In fact you could hear the rustle of the paper, and nobody said I did anything other than the agnes, which of course is fox too Are there any other recordings that we should be concerned of? I don't know of any recording said you should be concerned with, because I don't do things wrong. I do things right, I'm a legitimate person he is, he is a legit. that person there is. There is no one more legitimate. He then took other swing at this during an interview aboard his plane with abc in some afore, he said quote I would say it was bravado? If you want to know the truth, it was bravado. I was talking is holding up papers and talking about them, but I had no documents what you think, we'll any visa compelling explanations, work on a jury.

While it is almost certainly a bold face, why Donald trump claim that this was bravado might be the most authentically honest thing he's ever said cause there isn't. Through a new. thing more donald, trump and frankly believe Than the idea that donald trump with lie to make some people, particularly women, they he was more important than he was, I got it. I gotta believe will say: yes There is, I think, there's a gigantic caviar here there were about to get it. I'm just saying is important, but it is like he is a man who is driven by a bottomless well of insecurity, and that is why someone like that would do. It has done me. He is a man who has a fake time, men if the year cover in his office to make. I think he was time end of the year. This is something he could possibly do, but we can get to the, but if you will

yeah, I was gonna, say this- would absolutely be his the best defense he has trotted out yet. Were it not for what you hear in the tape of what you hear on the tape right, which is he's like yeah, I had some papers rustling around. He did not. He did not say on that tape. I have a paper here that shows whatever he said, look at this look at this paper so and then later he said. Oh, he also said in the summer for interview it was I said they said. Oh you said it was plants. You said it was. You said it was planned. Then he said, did I say plans on it? That's it's not war plans. It was building plans, so we are now to believe that during that meeting, Donald trump had some papers that he told us were rustling. You could hear papers and that what he did was he showed the two ghosts writers building plans, but pretended that it was classified war plans,

and they were like yeah yeah. I know we believe you now and he also told them by the way this is secret. This is classified it couldn't declassified it, but really. it's just a bunch of building plans and some other papers and ever hear of your leaving out the punchline tests, which is building plans for a golf course. You know I behold all these people- they I told them it was it's you know it's bravado and I like to lie lot. So I told them it was war plans. But honestly, it was just golf course plants in there this these fucking idiots. Also, do we think that that jack smith has built his entire case? Just on the audio recording that he hasn't interviewed the two ghosts writers, because when maggie haber, men and an jonathan swan or whoever she withdrew at the new york times reached out to those two writers. They didn't. They didn't respond, which was probably because they're fucking witnesses,

There is also another part of this that is really interesting, which He must have them sitting on his desk now that he went and got them in a box, the car it came we are hearing. He was doing an energy. There is no reason why he brought this plan to the meat he took it out of the box whenever locked the door bathroom where he was keeping it here came up in conversation and he found it in a pile on his desk. Hence the rustling of paper. Well, we'll probably he had taken it out, because susan glasser of the new yorker had had recently written the piece about milly, saying that he was worried tromp was going to start a war in iran, and so when he got that peace, I'm sure he said. Ah, I have a secret classified documents That I stole from the white house and kept in defiance of a federal subpoena and it's over here my box

but I bring everywhere with me, because I know that there are classified documents that I'm not supposed to have in those boxes so yeah he probably had at the ready. There is wine interesting little footnote here, which has seen unreported that the Iraq war plans are not listed in the documents in the indictment that donald trump is accused of keeping from the government button as all that has been seen how this proves front right. That is not the case, because jackson did not charge trumpet. the documents he gave over after months and of trying to get up, so it's very possible that he turned this dots, particular doc. Over, but that does not excuse him for showing classified documents document to someone who doesn't have security clearance before he handed it over. So just the fact is not in the indictment does not mean that that document was not a transfer session. What he also I mean they didn't charge trump with dissemination of classified information, and it might not be so that the new york times also says that the

Governments, jack, psmith views. This piece of evidence is among their strongest pieces of evidence in their case, maybe because it pretty clearly shows intent and it shows knowledge. The trump knew that he d have the power to declassify, knew that he held on two secret information that he wasn't supposed to have, and so, even if you use that evidence to tell a jury, what his state of mind was on all of the other shit that he had that he was charged with it. It seems like a pretty strong piece of evidence. We also get some new details about the bed minster crime scene from both at times peace in washington, post peace that ran this week. Jack Smith's team initially wanted to search bed minster, but didn't think they had enough evidence to get a warrant. They did, however, successfully subpoena surveillance. Footage from

bedminster so again, trump's bravado, what we're going to see how it will look to see if that holds up once we see the surveillance footage, they have reportedly asked witnesses a lot of questions about the war plan incident and, of course they they it as one of their strongest pieces of evidence. So it does sound. You know doesn't sound too good for trump now doesn't seem. Our also not good is jack Psmith, just apparently interview rudy giuliani about trying to overturn the election and is reportedly close to charging decisions in that investigation you seen any good legal news for donald trump lately, no, I have not

I've learned tat it is not. It is not. Their jack smith is also asked judge cannon to move the trial to december and trump has until these six july. Six to respond, which you know some legal analyses are saying, is sort of like a shrewd move, because by jack Psmith offering to move it ahead, it makes it harder for trump to delay even further than that. The judge in the hush money case seems inclined towards ex trumps request to move that trial to federal court from state courts is not doing well there, and we also learned that the person he showed, though, classified war map to that's different in the war plans. That's the map, of the war that wasn't going very well and he showed it to a pack representative that was Susie wiles, whose currently has top campaign aid. So that makes lord tricky as well. Yeah. It technically means, according to the rules put down by judge cannon, that donald trump and his camp essentially is a campaign. Manager cannot talk,

not the case, because she is now witness this tough, but up and down the rudy stuff. A lot of the young legal analyser saying that this was a proper session which is a chance for a witness or a subject to voluntarily tell prosecutors what they say if subpoenaed, knowing that what they say can't be used against them unless they lie so prosecutors could have. ready to come in or these lawyers could have offered to have him come in because they're afraid he might get charged and they either one or avoid charges or they want to cooperate to produce a sentence. So you know we could have rudy flipping as well. Forty that I can't wait to that happens around two p m on thursday, one weakened it sure could be happening right now, while we're making a good use of our fake legal degrees. Let's talk about the Supreme court's final week of big rulings up before their term ends. We will start with the bad news this morning in a six three ruling. The court struck down a firm

of action programmes at harvard in the eurozone. North carolina is unconstitutional chief justice roberts writing, for the majority did say that colleges can consider how race has affected and applicants life, but that students quote must be treated based on his or her experiences as an individual, not on the basis of race, justices, jackson and so to my or each. the sense with jackson, arguing that quote, deeming race irrelevant in law does not make it so in life? And so did my or saying quote the devastating impact of this decision cannot be overstated. There is plenty of evidence to support her claim in the nine states that have already banned the use of race, conscious admissions at their public universities, the share of black tino students has dropped. President Biden spoke out on the decision this morning. Here is. We cannot this decision be the last word one of we cannot let this decision be. The last word, court can render decision. It. Cannot

age. When america stands for miracles, idea. An idea unique in the world idea of hope and opportunity possibilities of giving everyone affair shot. let leaving no behind you ve, never fully lived up to but we ve never walked away from it either. We will not walk away from it now. so today. I want to offer some guidance to our nations. Colleges as they review their admission systems. After today's decision guidance, system with today's decision, should not abandon. They say that they should not abandon their commitment to ensure student bodies of diverse backgrounds and experience that reflect all of america, but I Suppose consideration is the newsstand were killed. Just take into account. The adversity student is overcome when selecting among Qualified applicants so not surprising from this court, but still infuriate.

Where does this go from here? You know, president also said he's directing the deployment of education to assess what factors are contributing to more diversity, colleges and what factors are holding back diversity colleges and he also mentioned legacy admissions, which, of course, the court did not say anything about alumni who went there, their kids donors who gave money to the college, their kids right, the court, the court didn't say anything about the preferences there. So Biden did direct the department of education and to you know, assess those factors, but where? Where do you think this goes from here? And what your overall a thought on this I mean you're exactly It is infuriating, if not unexpected. I thought justice done.

Jackson's descent, summarised exactly how absurd this ruling is it as a ruling of a court being wilfully ignorant about america's past and present and to your point, This is going to have a very real impact in the states that have and it has gone down in an precipitously in this eddie michigan bear using racing college emissions in two thousand and six, the percentage of black students recent michigan has been cut. Nearly half Two thousand and six that is a huge deal, is going to have a huge impact and by the way it was cut in half from nine percent to four percent. So it wasn't that it wasn't great to begin with and we were already underperforming massively even with the previous regime in place. What this is going to mean in how colleges are going to do this, because there are still many colleges, will continue to seek out a diverse student body as they have, as they have been doing, how

It happens to me very different. What is this could mean for centralized testing? Will that go away? How is this going to affect the commission's process in general terms of interviews and and essays, and all of that. But there is no question that this is a huge step backwards on the path to try to make america more equitable. Its can have a real impact on real people's lives. The president of harvard was out with this statement in response, and he noted that the part of the opinion that said that they could still take into account essays in which applicants discuss how race had affected their lives and said that they would be figuring out how to preserve their values that place importance on diversity backgrounds, perspectives and lived experiences. We should also note and hat tipp to our most murray fur, noting this on twitter that this sort of time

carve carve out in the ruling about. Oh, you know, colleges can still consider in essays sort of individuals. Experiences with race was likely the result of questions that could tangy brown jackson, justice, Cassandra brown jackson asked during oral arguments when she was like so kids can talk about how they're the you know: fifth generation to attend a? U n c, but they're not supposed to talk about racial discrimination, their life, and it was a powerful enough point. When it up in the air, in the majority opinion? So thank goodness for khatami burnt accident? On that? The very specific question she asked was some one could say they had been a five cent five term legacy five generations, but someone else and point out that they couldn't be a five from like because right priggish the family were not allowed to attend that school because of segregation. added that really for next all the people making the argument like it was one of those

it very clear that she had no did on the exact flaw in the argument, and that has given europe based on the list, in her room for something they made not positive compared to previous status. Oh by a wage that allows subsidies, still get access to higher education. yeah and looking around just on and on twitter, since the ruling Ah, two statements from a lot of colleges saying like this is not going to deter us and our mission to make the student, but yet these are all words. Of course we have to see what happens, but you know, hopefully we can imagine some areas where colleges develop admissions standards. That's exactly will not is as robust in making sure that soon bodies are more diverse than it was before. The

ruling at least still continues. That mission, I noted with some irony that I got an email from holy cross where I went to college and where a clarence thomas graduated from college and the new president of holy cross first black president of holy cross, said that DA. He is very much opposed to the decision and that the college would not be deterred from their mission to make sure that the student body is diverse. So we'll see what we'll see. happened there, but not a great ruling, not a great ruling at all, but we did get some good news from the court earlier in the week when Roberts also wrote a six to three opinion, rejecting what's known as the independent state legislature theory, which essentially argues that state courts don't have the authority to review voting or election laws passed by state legislatures dan. There have been differing views from various legal experts on not just how good this news is. What do you think did? I did

robert. I save democracy. Once again, this ruling is way better than it could have been had they adopted this radical interpretation of the independent state legislature. Theory. What it would mean is twofold: one radically. A state supreme court like in wisconsin could not rule and an alternate of electrodes passed by the state legislature. The state legislature decided to reject the results of the popular vote they that can happen. states report cannot weighing on voting suppression loss If I d or pull taxes or any other things that had previously been subject to constitutional judicial review but also in a supreme The case of a few years ago, the supreme court said that the supreme court had no role in rendering judgment on partisan

I remembered racial gerrymandering, could still be judged by the court as they just had a relatively positive decision pre recently. But if you step jack around party lines, not racial lines. That was up to the state to figure out, and this was good there. Point of this case was the day republican. super majority in north carolina reader the districts in a completely absurd and ridiculous way. The states supreme court room that it was unconstitutional violating a whole host of equal protection rules and there they suit say they could not do that now, IRAN, may we have since lost majority on the supreme court in north, your line it, and now that supreme court is on doing all the good that was done and how they pay independent state legislature, that would have stopped that, but this is protecting a see that's gonna matter and twenty twenty four and beyond the dangerous part here

is what essentially John robber sit and recasting law professor at universe at berkeley pointed this. Is that what they essentially Dennis codified, the sum of the footnotes from the bush vigo decision, which will give the supreme court more aggressive judicial review in election federal action cases add that occur the state level, and so there is a potential for the potential, and this is definitely this- is better than the alternative, but a potential for them to be more involved in overruling state supreme court's, like they did in the bush viii. Gorky spat stop the recount in the middle of our trying to determine who actually won florida. That was

as a very good summary dan of what happened here. So I e, as I always do- listen to the brilliant, strict scrutiny episode on this ruling. I believe they are also recording one on the affirmative action ruling. That will be a very soon as well, so you should listen to both of those. Having listened to that, having like red, rick hazards, peace and about further pieces, like I you're right there is, there is clearly the ten show for the supreme court to get involved down the road. I think that potential was always there, like. The majority said here that so basically it is, it was so was so ridiculous to put forward a theory that state legislatures could do whatever

they wanted, without any kind of judicial review whatsoever, to say that that is like antithetical to the? U s constitution too, like two hundred and something years, it's just its wild is wild. So basically the majority said that, yes, of course, state courts have a role in reviewing what the state legislature does and interpreting the state constitution of. Horse, but they do not have free rein to rewrite election laws from scratch, and so basically, there may be instances where the state courts are so wrong in interpreting state legislatures in state constitutions. That federal courts, including the supreme court, has to step in

and, like I tried to put out of my head, what like whether the supreme court were is, is, in its current form, a very right wing, supreme court or a liberal court. Whether state courts in question are liberal or conservative, like I dont think you would want state court to be all powerful. Just as you wouldn't want a state legislature to be all powerful, you would want some option for fetters, a review of a state courts decision like just from a pure partisan. If, if there was a state legislature, there was like a magna legislature and then there was a maggots court basically like there is an north carolina now and they trampled all over rights of voters and also the state court decided yeah, you can have new electors there, you can just basically, in electors. Wouldn't we want a federal court deception that point probably John: were you at twenty four year old stating in palm beach county when supreme court ruled and bush bigger? I

But what what I'm saying here is that all of this goes back to like we're just going to have the right people in the right courts. I mean that's right, you can, you can't say like well, I want the state courts to have all the power, because, right now we have a right wing supreme court, but if we change that court than we have suddenly a magna supreme court, then I'd want the? U s supreme court, to have all the power the issue here. As I understand it is- and I earth like there are three options here. There is terrible. There is and there are slightly better than this, and we the middle, which is basically all? Can fuck it up for these days with the supreme court. So not saying this is not the others here the promising there's some secret plan to take down the election raving like that, no one thought in two thousand that the supreme court was going away in on that action, because there had been no previous precedent for the supreme court. You get involved in a matter of state election matter like that they basically crew,

it is a new legal doctrine for the sole purpose of stopping the redoubt and giving the election now would push of one anyway, who the hell knows, but they do without leaving out the way to do it. and then they went other way too busy say that was a one off It was only in some footnotes that they adopted the wizard. There was, those finance is where the independent state legislature theory comes from, and then In this case, the far right through the people who brought the case, where itself took the most radical interpretation of that original independence in which such What this does is it's going to make it easy you're not going to invent a new legal doctrine to weigh in here now I mean they would have done in any way. Maybe they probably would have because they did. two thousand make it do it again, so I just is not to say a panic to say there is like a secret time bomb hear anything like that, but there is a reality that the a repeat of

shhh vigo, nor is it least, slightly more likely because of the way this decision was decided with a six three majority, including appointees, from democratic results in also no surprise again, because cabin on bare were involved in bringing the case too court in two thousand. Yes on them thy story no shocker there, but is as clarence thomas critic as the majority and his dissenting opinion on this, he was like you didn't. There is standard now of when the federal courts or the supreme court should weigh in an you guys in set aside entered in this majority opinion. So it sort of up to a case by case, basis here which it was before, which I think are which is YAP? That's why I feel like it seems it seems more status quo that not what does this mean for twenty twenty four, so this was mostly

the elections clause, not the electors clause? There are two different clauses in the constitution, but the language in the two cases is basically identical, and so a does seem like if a state legislature after that act decided to just send in a new slate of electors like trump wanted them to do. In twenty twenty it, the supreme, it seems like from this ruling disapprove words. I like, of course, the states supreme court could say that is blatantly unconstitutional based on the state constitution, which, in a lot of these states, says- you can't change the law after the election happens and suddenly decide to send fake electors. So that's goodness nuts and take take the windsor. He get him. That's a fact that the news I was talking about president Biden. He spoke this morning on the course for a court ruling He also delivered a major economic speech in Chicago yesterday, where he compared republican trick

Down economics with what the white house is calling Biden amish but listen why? Our knowledge is work? Why took office the pandemic is raging in our economy, is really large chains or broken millions of people on a ploy hundreds of small businesses are the verge of closing. After so many already club, literally hundreds of thousands on the verge of close today U s as the highs economic growth rate, leading the world economies since the pandemic the highest in the world? Now public shrouded again pushing tax cuts for large corporations and wealthy and adding trip? tens of dollars to the deficit trillions. Folks, nobody says clearly, as I can trickle down approach failed the middle class. it failed america, I know which is about the future by the way. I see restore

dream, because it worked before. Would you think of a speech? It was good. I liked it its aid. It is the best to date, distillation of not just as economic accomplishments or what they say about what he would do in a second tour yeah. I think that they framed the accomplishments in the context of here's. Our theory: here's our approach to the economy. It's working, not it has worked, it is working and it is a lot more effective. Then the other side than republicans and that to me is a much more useful and effective message than just look at all the good stuff. We did maybe the economy's better than you think it is. I think we have focused on this yet, but it was really smart. I think how he hit the tax cuts really hard that

trickle down economics is republicans wanting tax cuts for the rich verses binds policies which focused on better jobs and lower costs. The winner of the election will decide what happens. the trump tax cuts which expire at the end of the year and basically Biden hit the republicans in the speech for wanting to pay two trillion dollars to keep in place tax cuts that mostly benefit the rich when we could be spending that money on you know, lower healthcare costs, lower education costs, the investment in infrastructure right, and so that is a great fight to have it's a fight with real consequences, because you can tell people whoever wins after the election. This is a choice. Do you want more tax cuts for rich people? Or do you want investments, middle class. So I think that I like that they framed it like this. Would you say that there's a fiscal cliff coming? Well, that's a letter,

it's a callback why they did. It does speak to inability to repeat the strategy of transport, because the bush tax cuts in port as they were extended by a bipartisan deal, cut with obama and Mcconnell in two thousand and ten, but the bush tax cuts expired after the twenty twelve election in a big fight in that election was. What are you going to do with those tax cuts? Romney wanted to extend all the ones for the rich people. Obama wants to keep the ones who are middle class and and the ones for for rich folks, and that was a very advantageous issue. Environment for obama and Biden is going to get to repeat that play against whoever the republican nominee is and by the way, if you give voters a choice between. In tax cuts for the rich or the child, tax credit, tax cuts for the rich or a lower prescription, drug costs, tax cuts for the rich or privatizing social security and medicare, which is what republicans want to do the numbers are wild effect like they will choose the,

investments over the tax cuts for the rich every single time by a margin of like I just saw navigator pull this morning. I think it was like seventy five percent or against the tax cuts for the rich, including, like seventy. Something per cent of republicans, is a very good issue for democratic. one of those issues that divides republican base because in all the polling seed on various bite initiative strictly when he was trying to raise a bunch of taxes on the rich as part of the original back better plan working class. Republicans republicans republicans, who make make under assert income threshold, so work those initiatives at a level commensurate with Democrats like that's how you that's and it also. I will just note that comparing as credit and tax cuts for corporations or investments and acts with tax cuts for which people actually under cells populist in this country. If you ask people do any good, SK as the rich or you personally have a route canal. Most americans would pick workin out like that.

That is where populism is yeah and that's why he also emphasized in his speech what the administration has done to eliminate junk fees, hotel fees, overdraft fees for banks which are also you know. Some people could argue that they're small they're, a very big deal to a lot of people in this country. You have to pay those fees, and so I think that'll be a part of the message going forward. So the white house seems to be more confident in making the case that the economy is doing better and that Joe Biden's policies of the reason why polling still suggest that people don't quite buy that, though, as you'll hear from Ben la bolt, when we talked to him, he cites a poll that most people say their personal financial situation has improved or is improving. What do you think about the argument they're trying to make care about? You know the economy doing better, which is

I should say empirically correct. According to all of the data, inflation is down consumer conferences up the job market is still churning out jobs there good jobs, unemployment is at its. Let me look all this stuff is right, but you know, as we talk about a million times during the mid terms, at that point, people were feeling the improvement. Are they feeling it now There are at least more optimistic about the future and play inflation is down for eleven. In a row it is particularly down and go. In groceries the things that he people the hardest, fine folks running actual situation throughout twenty twenty two inflation was such a dominant in very real and painful issue. For so many people that they could not talk about all the other stuff, because people were so mad about inflation and gas prices in particular, That is that we are now in a much more nuanced environment and on top of the pulling the pen sites earlier this week, the consumer oftenest measure came out in its highest level in seventeen months in the consumer's companies measures.

we the best measure of how people really feel about the economy, because it indicates what they want to do going forward. Are they a correlate with buying home spying cars going on vacation as a consumer. Confidence is up. That speaks to a change in the economy. Now the child, for president Biden is not just a few of your economy but wet how they feel about what he is. To do on the economy because he still is operating at a fairly historic deficit with republicans in terms of who you trust on the economy, particularly with donald trump? And so this this each this in suing publications campaign in france, The entire presidential campaign is gonna, be an effort to change that dynamic, to undermine what republicans for and build trust. In the present, alec stewart and economic sword really means who are you going to fight for? And what are you going to fight for right? Because you know, if you just frame it as

How has Biden manage the economy you're going to get people who were cranky because they don't think the account me is coming along at or your basically going to ask people to judge based on their own financial situation and how they view the economy. If you make it do you want this set of policies, this approach? Do you want some one light and probably more actively do you want someone like Joe Biden, who is fighting hard for the middle class? Or do you want begins, who have they? When will shower rich people with more tax cuts right and if that is the boys. They are going to win that argument now. The question is: how do you binds argument economic argument fits into the larger campaign message like. Should this be the central focus? Should he spend more time on issues? trump or democracy or abortion, like you, did in the mid terms like we ve, had this conversation before its incredibly difficult to get an economic message to break through in a time of donald trump and threats to democracy.

and the abortion bands and everything else that error. You know our bart, serious threats that we're dealing with like howdahs. How would you, how would you run a campaign where you really want to get that economic message to break through the economic Just get me said: trot whence Linda lake was podcast one point in an interview. She pointed out that no one in modern political history has won the white house without being the person who won the economy and its appalling and biting bear waste knocked up. Are you a story for most of the campaign and then the the waiter miss him the pandemic and answering recession by tick the head by a little bit at the answer is going to have to do that and it's worth remembering that the as high as turnout wasn't twenty two. It is going to be sick to get me higher twenty four. There is theirs, Fifty million people who voted in more than fifty my people who are going to vote in twenty four who did not vote, and those people will tend to be people who are less politically engage. Therefore there

We're be less motive. It by some of the democracy trauma this sort of more process. Arguments about extreme is and the more effective intervention we do. So how do you do this I think you make a mistake by doing this from an issue perspective like we need you weren't, it's not a recipe. Rethinking cookies right. We don't need two cups of flour. Two cups of democracy to teaspoons of court reform or whatever you need a narrative about the differences between present abiden and because, most notably donald trump, who will serve as the the avatar for all repelled well there's a domini or not what they're good, fight for what they stand for and then each individual issue, whether as abortion or democracy or the economy, is something undergirds at larger narrative. So you start with narrative and that issues are the supporting parts of that the economy's going to have to be a huge part of that. I suspect that will be a dominant part of paid advertising. Because to your point, you can't get the press to cover the economy in ways that are smashing with the diminution of local news.

Yet able to really understand how they economies doing so? You have to pay to do that, but it is we have bigger part of the twenty twenty four strategy than twenty twenty two, because you're going to have more economically sensitive voters in this motor pool than we had last time Yes and the only chance to get it to break through or- and I imagine this would be, the bulk of the pit adds as well. Is you gotta pick a fight over it, because if you just out there tat an accomplishment, which again, I'm not saying they are. They didn't do that in the speech on Wednesday, but if you just do and if democrats are out there just out in the accomplishments, that is

breakthrough? That's not going to be new. If you are out there fighting with republicans, because they want to screw up this economy by giving a bunch of tax cuts to rich people and fight for their rich friends and fight for themselves versus Joe Biden who's out there wanting to fight for middle class workers, because you know he's he's scranton Joe, then that's going to be something that has at least has a chance to break through more. And so I do think that, like constantly picking fights with republicans drawing the contrast talking about their agenda, talking about what trump would do because trump you can see that trump in the primary sees this coming in the general, which is why he's trying to hit the santas on cutting social security and medicare. Even though trump's budgets did the same thing, you know sales tax stuff like that like trump gets this and what Biden and the Democrats need to do is be like. No, no, no trump also gave us these tax cuts that have increased the deficit and just made rich people richer, and he would do

more of that if he comes to office, so we will talk more about all of this with Ben the bolts, the white house communications director right after that, This show a sponsor by better help match you're looking at a scale with everything you do for others on one side and everything you do for yourself on the other is a balance tommy? No, I'm! Ok! I'm looking at my eyes are closed. Well, let me tell you it's easy to do everything for others and forget that you need support yourself on the resto thread. I think that's probably why love is not in this ad right now he's doing some. For love it some him time from him. Yeah there we can help clarify your values and find more balance in your life, seen keeping a rock our four others, without forgetting yourself in the process there, peace, great you get, talk to someone they listen to you, you get up off your chest. by saying it. Instead of thinking it in your own head, it makes you feel

feel better and the other not allowed to leave until the sessions or you will have to be. That will be a full part you can be as annoying as you want their stuck there. If you were thing, I learned, that's wonder: if you're thinking of starting their p, give better help, try its entirely online designed to be convenient, flexible and suited to your schedule. Just fill it a brief question here to get match with a licence, therapist and switch. There is any time for no additional charge find more balance with better help, visit better help, dot com, slash p s a today to get ten percent off your first month. That's better help, h e l, p, dot com, slash psn, I'm ready a kissing, arthur, renew novel called mobility. Mobility is the first book he's from crooked new publishing and grant crooked media reads: mobility the coming of age story of a young woman named bunny Glenn, following from youth to adulthood as she's somewhat accidentally, gets deeper and deeper into her role as a storyteller, where the oil industry, growing up in the late nineteenth and early two thousand, that's about corporate

greed in the neo liberal era, climate disaster and the way the personal is very political. Pre order, your copy on mobility today at crooked dotcom, slash, mobility or wherever books are sold, so you can be the first to read it when its released on august first. joining us now he's been Joe Biden. White has come geishas rector for just about four months he's so a long time, friend and colleague of ours from the obama days and the only person in the world whose lived with me too me, an love it and worked for Dan. Then the vault welcomed I that that I defended various statuettes. I am sitting by virtue of its I've not done much with the decoration, but I had, but one so far

I say that of all the roommate, just the sea of clothes and trash all over the floor and lubbock bedroom at the site. I'll never fully get out of my mind, but I've been I've been working on it yeah. I was going to say this video, but just the left is the plaque that they have to commemorate the fact that it was Ben first question: is this: the best day of your life You know John every about their my life now this as this was an exciting day for us, it was the day we'd been building up to for a long time, because I it was the day that we came forward to really tout the president's economic accomplishments. With the speech in chicago- and I am excited to talk to you about it,. Lotta stuff. In that speech great speech, his economic approach is accomplishments. Work he's got left to do contrast with Republicans approach. Here

occasions director. What's your dream headline out of his speech, or at least one part that you really want people to take away that that price vine took on the failed concept of trickled down economics, and his rebuilt the economy around the middle class, who really that the backbone of the economy in the first place, if you think about his career, you know he would talking about trickle down economics for forty years and a lot of economists and had felt that this was an effective policy for the country been talking about. It bent the eighties than if he rewarded the wealthiest incorporations, with with tax breaks, that somehow that would trickled down the middle class families in the economy across the country would be strong but grown up in Granting had bulgaria and claim delaware divide, never thought both policies impact his family had never trickled down to the kitchen table and soap.

You really believes in reverse engineering, that concept and centering economic policies around the middle class from the beginning, That means basically, three things number one. We shouldn't Actually, the united states. We shouldn't reward corporations that are shipping jobs overseas. We should take a look at what industries can be built here in the united states from clean energy and two superconductors. Are I'm sorry I conductors chips, industries that were being built overseas and in china over the past decade, even though we invented that technology. Here in the united states, a lot of people said: reviving manufacturing new out was impossible. Eight hundred thousand manufacturing jobs have been created under this administration and that's just the beginning, so that one day the second piece is empowering workers. We have a tight labour market, thirteen million jobs were created under this administration, and unemployment

has been lower than were present for for sixteen months. That's the longest I can indicate internet means workers more empowered, their wages are up, Workers are our union. I think even young workers or union arising in a new factors and employers have to complete work their power, and that means that that workers are doing well in their very empowered and with the strongest labour force participation read that we had in years, and this this is impacting. Everyone is particularly impacting workers, that we're making lower wages in a most wage growth of anybody else. seen allow its black in his back unemployment. In history, under this administration, so having a real impact in it. The result of all the big pieces of legislation that the present was able to get through congress over the past couple of years.

the political challenge for the president is the people like the things he has done when they hear about em banana people heard about em watch the theory or strategy to keep people paying attention in the days and weeks after the speech? Well then, he wrote a bit about that today and you know it's harder and harder to break through in today's communications environment, the media, in his fractured a lot of people go up and in their filter bubbles we know that in the twenty twenty election you know four, the average persuadable american, the number she wasn't. The news was the bachelor, and so I have the way of every day and figure out how we communicate with people across the country that are necessarily watching the network news in the morning that certainly don't get their newspapers and prince anymore, and so pretty. If it becomes really the challenge of the job. How do we re rich people on a repeated bases with with the present economic, a couple

I meant in a way that they'll remember, because the average person out there or something seven times before they'll. Remember it at all, and so you know but this by economic sprang allowed it to do it's a start to talk about think that people are dealing in the economy. You know, consumer confidence is up. Inflation has come down over fifty percent over the past year, we found the strongest recovery in the united states of any developed nation, but these bills are just starting to be implemented. Then tell shovels are going into the ground to rebuild roads and bridges. Thirty, five thousand projects across the country. You know that the price of insulin is now a cap that thirty five bucks across the kind hurry up, but we gotta make sure that people are connecting those things to all of the legislation that the present pass through congress in the past couple of years in turkey that will require the president, the vice president, the persuaded attack second gentlemen, going out on the road to talk about this. Coordinating with members of congress. Coordinating with members

of the cabinet and we're trying to be. You know on the road and districts conventional media platforms, Angela communicating digitally it started in all in communication strategy, to make sure that people are saying that these, and I'm a game. This progress that they're saying coming out of the pandemic. He is related to the power to demonstrate You as you remember from it as we work together. We always had a torture relationship with the term obama care some. we embraced it. Sometimes we thought that it would turn people who did not want present. Obama did like more affordable health care away from programme. By with the speech you guys are clearly embracing the term by economic Why are you doing that? Are there any downside risks to making the economy so personally tied to the president, when we think we have a really strong story to tell? its countering a narrative. That's been out there for some. You know that there has been

action in a recession from some economists and economic commentators on for months now. When all the data coming in you know three hundred and thirty thousand jobs created last month, for example, and, as I said, the strongest recovery of any developed nation a stable and steady economic growth. We believe that there's a really strong store the tao antennas manufacturing them that were thing in the united states, but were not thing In any of our competitors in the world, We know what the result of passing the inflation reduction act that had the record funding for clean energy in it, for example, in the chest, and science acted rebuilding the sunlight

doktor plants across the country? And so our view is that you know alternately. Americans perception that the president will be linked to the performance of the economy and we believe there is a very strong record here that we need to start communicating worthily about every day in China. I think Biden dynamics will just be the day and just be the speech, but that's really going to be a key part of our friend moving forward, hey Ben thanks for joining our filter bubble. I just wanted to be a point there one of the president's favorite lines is: don't compare me too. The almighty compared to the alternative sure enough has Republican started the day with that to tweets about hunter by in one celebrating the end of rosy wade, do you find it easier to convince people that they are better off with binds approach versus the republicans approach than it is to convince people that they should feel better about the

economy, then they might as well look we're going to do about number one. We think people are feeling better about the economy, we're not going to tell people something that they don't believe and when you ask somebody for example today, how do you feel about your personal economic situation? Seventy six percent of americans are saying that they feel good about it, and consumer confidence is up the the job market. It is unemployment is at a well and so that those things are factually true and there the reason we can go out and talk about them at the same time, what are republicans offering people I think that economically, we know what they're offering their operating tax cuts. The wealthiest and corporations which have had seemed to be recycled public and idea over and over again that didn't bring manufacturing back to you, I didn't create record low unemployment.

We know that it doesn't work and created record deficit, but we're all pan words well and, secondly, that they ve gotten into such an extreme condition a cry. the board and many issues, another one that I would point out. You know you. You talked about row the really out of step with the public on that there certainly out of step with with millennials open engine day, but this notion of freedom and an individual liberty that used to be something that Republicans like to go out and talk about, but magyar republican today if you're a woman who wants to make her own healthcare decisions. If your apparent that believes that you should decide what books your kids have acted too, instead of you know and ideological politician

If you're somebody who cares about gay rights in this country are elsie, be taking broadly republicans, r, r, R, really conducting an assault and freedom and an assault individual liberties, right now, I'm in their way out of step with the public on that, and I think it really put them in a vulnerable position to the presidency has been a chance. and to go out and and defend these things. He believes we should cut it by row. He came out after dobbs and did what he believed was everything he could do, and his executive authority to to defend reproductive rights. He, he made sure that we're defending marriage, equality and and pass legislation to do so, and so you know republicans- are just drifting further and further down that the maga ideological spectrum here and and really

in themselves and political power, we're still waiting on some of the big supreme court decisions to come down but looks like the Senate's moving forward on ethics reform legislation. After a The stories about clarence, thomas and samuel Eto'O, a failing to disclose private jet rads with rich rightwing donors, so President's commission on cream court reform has recommended a code of conduct for justices sent. It looks like they're going to do something similar to see support that kind of reform, which will have to take a look at at the at text to the lettuce

I should understand what's coming through, but I can point out that he signed the court house ethics and transparency act, which requires federal judges to disclose their stock purchases and sales and post their financial disclosures online and obviously you've seen a lot of news. That's come out of that recently and you know in in terms of the courts more broadly, and you know, placing the president's mark on his found on the federal court has been a big part of of this presidency. His confirmed one hundred and thirty six federal judges to appointments to the federal bench. So far, two thirds of them have been up,

and then they ve been the most diverse laid up of judges in history. You know that the priority is to be chairman of the tonnage additional committee, and so every supreme court judges that was appointed by a democratic president. You know, president Biden has played a key role in making sure that they were confirmed their just couldn't be a bigger priority for further administration than making sure that I bet the court and you know, or are upholding opportunity and an equal justice under the law and the president's really dedicated his career to that, and so he keeps a very close eye on what I was on the pot earlier this week about how a few months ago by and get all kinds of, shit from the left about, supposedly abandoning the rail workers on the issue. paid sick days, and then we learned this week from the rail workers that the administration was quietly working behind the scenes, the entire time to help them successfully negotiate for those a page

days there is a similar dynamic around Biden not going out more forcefully during the debt. Silly negotiations, how do you guys decide which fights you're more likely to win by just quietly playing the long game, even if it means a eating shit in the short term. I think that that's part of that since dna and he doesn't get up by the daily new cycle and focuses on the long game and focuses on getting to the outcome so You know something like when it was negotiating with the speaker and and republicans in congress over the by partisan budget agreement, where we thought at the end of the day, we got a very good deal that protected all the present signature programmes and things like the largest investment, It's and in a clean energy economy. You know he is

he's very hands on in those negotiations than in the communication? To the point where you know some of the statement I put out the present personally dictated during that process, to make sure that they were very carefully read that they wouldn't disrupt the negotiations, and so I think it is an extremely small negotiator. You now I'm somebody who like to win every argument: and ass isn't only market negotiator, and I think that that is just one- you know hallmark of of his long career and public services. That knows how to drive towards an outcome. Speaking of winning an argument. I just saw the One way, the white house press office celebrated pride was by deliver. A rainbow cupcakes to the fox news, reporters and the briefing room. What was that?

However, the you know there was. There was a crazy to worry that that ran in fact that caused the pride flag, a flag of grammars and pedophiles. Just complete. You know insane I q and I'm in at stuff that just has no basis in reality. I and I and they never corrected the story and and and took it down, and so you know, as you know, we had a big pride celebration. at at the white house, and we were glad that everybody was welcome to participate. How did the people for how to? Therefore, as a fox take that let them comment so you work for Biden for about four months now. Can you give us like one story about what it's like to work for Joe Biden, just think if people or window into how he runs ass white house. Absolutely

look at you both now, I've worked for a number of elected official years they all have their own style and their own way of dealing with the team. and then were often, well one. I think you know the weapon his work around here it is important to pray for product. You know, president Biden is extremely detailed oriented. He likes you, tax policy issue than negotiations from every angle and to play out every scenario in every possible way along the chess board that they can play out, and so you better work into the overall. Knowing the answered every possible question,

to make sure that you know he works it through. I think of it, like the law school class, I never had cuts after I took the outside. I just went worked on campaigns instead, but you know socratic method. Anybody in the in the room should be prepared to speak and answer on any. watch- and you know devil's advocate around every issue- to understand both yeah the policy and politics of how something might play out and people across the country might respond to it and that strong domestic policy it it's true ron. foreign policy, and you know I'm in a position where I feel like I'm, I'm learning every day getting my my phd here and in the job, and so you know he he's just a very, very hands on president when it comes to both managing the white house, the government apparatus and and policy writ large we're we're sorry about this. But what what's different about your second tor and the white house,

You know it's a little your friend and mad I think we all wish we could always be in our twenty. In doing the job suggests, had asked the limitless energy and ability to deal with anything and to sit here at all hours and enjoy yourself with with all the energy of ever had and everything that that comes your way This is more a marathon than its brand. I get that with its brent. There was also a marathon and so indirect becomes more important. You also come into the job, just knowing more about the fact that you're always gonna leave something on the floor every day. You're, never gonna, get it out on the ground of branch is mac, blog innovation, with hundreds of thousands of people in tow

for as many moments. When do you want to sit here and drive me than planting perfectly? It's so easy for something to pop up in the news or across the government. That takes your full attention for a week, two weeks, three weeks a month where you really have to divert the team and and gets on that job. I came in with with that perspective this time around and am also inviting myself to two more of the events that they hoped that await us in order to sign a smart and at last christian people than others, but in the obama days you started tradition in the press office where you'd respond to overly whiny complaints from journalists. With a picture of Crying mime honestly started mean culture. There did exist before that. When is the last time you sent a crying mine to someone.

Well. You know, tat, thou, didst, thou, not better job, and we didn't have a magic back that internal others. Actually, the ira emerging in several other emerges that unable to deploy in similar circumstances, excellent, Laval thanks for coming? Unplugged save america freesheet, it come back again to get a doctor. I you it The I'm lydia kiessling, author of a new novel called mobility. Mobility is the first book he's from crooked new publishing and grant crooked media reads: mobility. the coming of age story of a young woman named bunny Glenn following from youth to adulthood as she's somewhat accidentally gets deeper and deeper into her role as a storyteller, where the oil industry? growing up in the late nineteenth and early two thousand. That's about quickly.

Greed in the neo liberal era, climate disaster and the way the personal is very political, pre order, your copy on mobility today, a crooked dotcom, slash, mobility or wherever books are sold, so you can be the first to read it when its released on august first Ok before we go a heartbreaking story, one of Washington said. In vegas romance is on the rocks, Kevin, mccarthy, the legislative and political genius whose fighting offer Maggie rebellion in the house was asked in an interview whether donald trump is the best candidate to run against Joe Biden. Here's what he said, but you think he can win an election, but can he win an election and win that election yeah? He can think he can. If the question is, is he the strongest to win the election? I don't know that answer also, first of all

talk about a swerve. He does. had to shut his mouth there. like the interviewer. When I first heard about this, I thought maybe the interviewer headline grilled him and would like to know is donald trump, the strongest candidate. No. He just security. An election and Kevin volunteers is industry does not the deftness of people, I will say a mccarthy before we get into the lovers. Quarrel was Mccarthy right in what he said filling a trick question But if I say mccarthy was right, Elijah's gonna cut it in tweeted out. Tat are going out to respond, and this in turn there we call upon cast. I could not think of a more banal correct answer. Yes, of course, Donald trump can win an election against Joe Biden. No, I dont know if he's the strongest candidate against Joe Biden. Of course, Don't know that There is evidence that he is definitely not theirs.

that is not there's some evidence that he might be because ron de santis sucks like we just we just don't know and the reason I think the point about what a banal observation that was is because of what happens next. So after this political reports that obviously trump lost his shit, his people were texting. the fuck to each other in calling Mccarthy a moron like there's something Pod. Save america hosts Kevin, then called trumped to apologize, gave and interviewed a bright part where he said quote: trump is stronger today than he wasn't twenty sixteen and then put up a fund raising pitch. That said, trump is the strongest opponent to Biden, but that pits trump off even more Apparently you know how to fund raise, make do a fundraising pitch using trumps name without trumps, explicit sign off so then they

mccarthy take down the fund raising than he did to try to correct his fuck up. I guess there also and mackerel bit mccarthy hasn't endorsed trump yet, which raises the question: why hasn't he Emily he's, a doris trump and all, but name only, but the things that the recent hasn't done it is. He has nineteen republicans who are trying to run for election in districts. They Joe Biden one. And it makes it a little bit harder for Kevin Mccarthy to campaign, for them raise money for them appear with them. If the speaker of the house and the leader of the caucus is someone who is shilling for trump yeah, also, it's just like he is the top elected official in the republican party in the country, and there is a competitive primary for the republican nomination? Obviously you would expect this in any other world, not one the wherein any other. When you expect the speaker of the house to be neutral, we would not have expected nancy policy too. jumping and endorse one of the democratic candidates dirt,

The twenty twenty race at the beginning course, each of you fuck a neutral it. Just it's like what? What do you think about mccarthy's regarding statement to break art? that trumpet stronger today than he wasn't twenty sixteen shy actually That might be true, yeah, that's probably true. I mean it really depends on what political value you put on multiple criminal convictions and their impact on electability. I mean, if you just look at the polls. I went back in in twenty fifty in at this exact time the primary was bush, as in jab nineteen trump twelve huckabee. Eight so he's do love it and the primary than it was then

and then he is closer to Biden in polling in general election matchup than he was to hillary at this time in end of june, two thousand and fifteen trial heats were fifty nine percent hillary thirty four percent trump yikes well and, as we know, peoples, if my sixteen were infallible, I do this to me it is this whole story- is an example of like what an unbelievable grip donald trump still has on the republican party. That Kevin Mccarthy goes out there and says something fairly obvious, which is who knows if trump's the strongest candidate, let's wait and see. Of course you can win the election and donald trump or his people flip out so badly. That Kevin has to

apologize, basically flip his entire stance from saying that he is an oath down from could winter, basically endorse again by saying he's the strung his candidate against Joe Biden, inefficient in future than you then have to take that. That's what happens when you cross trump and are about working party while Donald also has an amazing intuition for very weak people who will degrade themselves and Kevin Mccarthy's events. Weak person, who will of course degrade himself in tremendous ways to beg forgiveness. He loves to make people back and he knew Kevin Mccarthy would beg so he did it speaking of people who will debase themselves I can't wait to see where this is going. Did you did you hear rhonda santas his answer to a question that a new hampshire town hall about whether he thinks Donald trump disrupted the peaceful transfer of power? On january,

Sixth, did you hear that answer? I think the use of the term answer is doing a lot of work. In that sense, Rhonda santa's answers by saying Well, I wasn't near washington that day and then he said. I certainly didn't enjoy, watching what happened. Oh, oh, you did enjoy watching the violent insurrection against the capital. That's what that's! What you're saying so caitlin collins, cnn interviewing chris Christie last night. I believe ass him to respond to run.

The sentences answer and here's where Chris Christie had to say he wasn't anywhere near washington. Did you have a tv? Was he alive that they did? He see what was going on? I mean that's one of those particular answers. I've heard in this race. So far you don't have an opinion about january six, except to say I didn't particularly enjoy what happens. People were killed at last august. People were killed caitlin, as you know that day capitol hill, defending the capital. We had members of congress who were running for their lives. We have people trying to hunt down the vice president, united states, channing, hang mike pence and donald trump. The entire time sat outside the oval office that little dining room of his eating, a well done, cheeseburger and watching tv and doing nothing to stop what was going on until it got to the point where even he could no longer stand it and he finally for something

the afternoon put out a video asking people to leave the capital and ran to santa, does any opinion on that. If he asked you that question, how would you answer it? I would say it was one of the most disgraceful days in american history and that the president was principally responsible for it, not that hard, no, jack, Chris Christie he's he's he's still around. He has since truck I'm sure trumpet our view. Angry truths about this. Nothing happened. you, gonna win the republican nomination. No, a republican voters gonna like that? Probably not glad he's out there say that, though, that's great too pretty sharp prosecution, Maybe it is a wild world at christmas day, who is actually talented communicator in a party full of absolute marble mouth losers can't get any attraction and its primary I was watching this and I thought you know what chris Christie is basically just a really good cable pundit, who fucking hates donald trump,

who's running for president. That's what he said and donald trump one twin succeed, because he was a really good fox news, pundit running for president ones like in the thing he does there, that's good, that's beyond, or if you know politics, ideology river is aegis like is not afraid to sort of say what everyone's thinking about RON de santis. His answer right, like this, is ron de santis. His fucking problem is that he does speak in sort of talking points like he is like just reading whatever's writ for him typical politician, all the stuff that down trumps running against him for or a running it done from message about him, which is that he's like a typical establishment poet Don't forget about his positions on issues that make em and is the typical establishing politician. He sounds like one he's stiff his his speeches. Sock right like- and I think donald trump understands- that some

did you just say, what's on your mind clearly, but Chris Christie is now doing that to crate. We've had plenty of politicians and democratic party who have been successful, doing that Barack Obama used to do that quite often, where he'd sort of just like laugh about the absurdity of politics or the absurdity of opponents right. That's what chris Christie doing me. Christmassy is full of shit, I think he will generally hates donald trump, but I also think if, at the end of this election, Donald trump invited him back into the cabinet, he would go back because he's that bad. This flip, like twelve times now, but a very I'm not going to I'm not wanna bet on the rigid so for forward moral compass of Chris Christie, replied he dies communicate with authenticity. Like does sound like a he speaks like a human with strength, and that now why he was the first choice of many republicans to be their nominated twentyth. Twenty in a mist is moment to every would have have given obama a better, a tougher shot. Then romney did but it's like as its

I will. I will take up on their. I reverse my position where I've been as I can you in private and public for being willing to give to Chris. Firstly to gamble advanced age, I'm! Ok with that. I think it's good for the. worlds. I want to see it by that's right. I I I just want to be clear. I think risks He would be horrible president with a terrible positions on a whole bunch of issues that there is a supreme court opening, he probably put a justice and there they would fucking ruin rest of democracy or be horrible offences that I don't think he has become a moderate. I think he is genuine in his hatred for donald trump, who almost killed him. and I think he was probably he's genuine in his disgust of what happened on January six. I think you can hold all of those things in your head. At the same time, that's fair I give you that I give you ankara's christie that it's not it's not like he's a fucking hero for it again it is past. In the doldrums almost killed him. You would expect someone who is almost killed by donald trump.

to spend a lot of time, trying to exact revenge on him nights. It's someone I was. I wouldn't be too having some of those killed me. I probably wouldn't support them. I might not in I'm not, I think, not hut an invitation to go back into their just about my pants. I don't I'll he's there again, someone who's almost killed by donald trump, ok that's all we have heard today thanks to bend the bolt for joining pod. Save america Everyone heavy great weekend at a great fourth, oh right So instead of parts of america on tuesday, you will hear an episode terminally. Online are subscriber show that you can get if you gotta crooked outcomes, dot friend get all determined terminally. You want, but we're gonna put some up one epoch, in the p feed for tuesday, because will be offered fourth and then Dan and I will be back on thursday. I would just say, as someone who was on that episode of truly online, you cannot miss they wormhole that

in favour crawled into yeah on the internet this week it is wild. It's it's dark, it's dark By everyone by everyone, pod save america is a crooked media production. The executive producer is Michael Martinez. Our producers are in gardener, Bernstein in Bolivia, Martinez, its mixed and edited by andrew chadwick, Joe Cancer is our sound engineer with audio support from kyle segment in charlotte land based halley, keefer, madeline, herrings, irish schwartz, Andy task and justine how for production support into our digital team, eliza cone, Phoebe Bradford me a common then have coat and David told subscribed to pod save america on youtube to catch full episodes. Exclusive content in other community events find us at youtube: dot com, slash at pod, save america.