Congress avoids a government shutdown after Kevin McCarthy caves to Democrats at the last possible minute—and now Matt Gaetz is trying to strip McCarthy of the speakership as a result. Will Democrats bail McCarthy out? Donald Trump begins his fraud trial with the unique legal strategy of threatening the judge, Joe Biden frames the 2024 election as extremism vs. democracy, and Gavin Newsom appoints Laphonza Butler as California's newest Senator. Later, Congressional Progressive Caucus Chair Pramila Jayapal joins the show to talk about House Democrats' strategy as the Speaker drama unfolds.
This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
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the welcome to pod save america, I'm John favour and fire exit user. John lovett tommy vietor on today's show. Congresswoman Pramila Jayapal joins to talk about whether the Democrats will join Matt gaetz his plan to oust Kevin Mccarthy. As speaker, Donald trump is in court for his fraud trial, making all kinds of threats, Joe Biden is framing the twenty twenty four election as extremism, vs democracy and Gavin newsom appointed funds, a butler as california's newest senator
but first congress is averted. A government shut down for now, because Kevin Mccarthy caved democrats at the last possible minute. A hundred and twenty six house, republicans
in two hundred and nine of their democratic colleagues to keep the government funded at current spending levels for the next. Forty five days, donald trump and most republic
had been demanding huge cuts to everything, from healthcare to education, more emma
emission restrictions and all kinds of other crazy stuff. They got. None of that, though, they were able to keep additional funding for ukraine out of the deal, at least for now. President Biden said he's confident the ukraine aid will pass and told republicans to pass the full budget deal
agreed to last summer. Stop playing games gets, is done. I'm sick and tired of the brakes mature and saw the american people
I've been doing this, you all point out two miller long time. I've never quite see republic,
congress. Re congress act like this enough is enough is enough. This is not that complicated
The brinkmanship has to end there's no,
excuse for another crisis consequence
I strongly urge my republican friends in congress not to wait
don't waste time, as you did all summer,
it's a year, long budget agreement honor the deal we made a few months ago, Joe's angry yeah, like it works better than audio, because you can't see the ice cream cone. That's going to cut, there's no ice creams at a podium. What do you think happened here? Why do you think mccarthy caved at the last minute to avoid a shutdown that almost
Everyone thought what happened. I mean like friday, hadn't into the weak areas like it was a mole
certainly most likely where anything happened, it's that that
in that I don't understand, is Mccarthy clearly felt like he needed to prove to his car
guess that there is no way out of this without democratic votes and allow the assumption alot of the asylum
were that? Ok in order for that to happen, there has to be a shut down there to be some pain for that
happen of whatever reason mccarthy decided. He didn't need to wait for the shutdown to actually transpire to have the vote, and I think part of it might just be that it was becoming.
We clear that, no matter what he did, there was no avoiding this motion to vacate coming in the next week. No seems right, I mean he blinked yeah, I mean, I think yeah. I think he originally thought that maybe he could pass something
through the house with all republican votes,
and then you know it will obviously wouldn't pass the democratic held senate and the white house, but then he could trigger a shut down and ever could argue about it. I think he realized last week after several votes, that he couldn't get anything past. The house, with just republican votes,
and then he realized he was gonna get jammed by the senate, because Mcconnell was gonna, throw in with Democrats in the senate to pass by partisan funding bill. So if there was a shut down, it would have been mccarthy verse
not only chuck Schumer and Joe Biden, but Mitch Mcconnell and a bunch of senate, an house republicans who wanted to pass a bipartisan funding and a bipartisan funding, though, that we have included
for europe yet, and I think he realized lockets. You know probably hard to women
shut down fight when it's just a republican bill passing through the house. But when you can't even get something passed through, the house can be really hard to win a shutdown because it couldn't even get a defense appropriations bill passed right. The cat was, he can't do the basics of anything yeah. They couldn't get anything done. How big of a problem tommy is the lack of additional ukraine funding. I mean, I think, it's a big deal for ukraine, it's obviously existential, but I think that ah or the broader context is, I think the
who s is patently like: seventy five billion for ukraine and its foreign Biden whatsoever, twenty four billion, which is a lot of money and for a while
abroad, pretty bipartisan support and poles for supporting ukraine and giving them stuff
guns, etc, and now that that point
is eroded over time. There's a scene in poland august found majority of americans opposed more usa for ukraine,
So I you know, I always thought that an up or down vote in congress would probably pass and probably pass in a bipartisan way, like there's more support for ukraine in congress, maybe than in the broader electorate
but I just I'm not sure how you get an upper down vote right,
on the house in that gate seems to think that mccarthy the gates are guides where we go with these is, I think, an eighth is a guy. I don't know gates. I just policies the biotoxins forehead. It seems so strong, that's my opinion.
But so declamation draining.
this. You don't have to call you have to say that you're going to get sued for that, I suspect that you could get a bipartisan missouri.
If you're or down vote on some sort of like of funding. But you know I don't know and mccarthy gates guides thinks, there's a sea
the deal that the white house made Biden seems to suggest there might be one that the white house won't comment on it, but I just don't know how you get to that
vote rags. The strategy was its pair ukraine, money with disaster relief, money and other popular stuff enforce everybody to vote for it, but now they passed all the disaster relief money. So what do you do? The atwater security money, I'm not sure yeah? I don't think mccarthy, Mccarthy! You got enough problem
if he does want to be talking about any secret side, ukraine deal right now, he's got by the way. How could he go the secret deals aside? It's like he's this guy he's like a mrs doubtfire at the end,
run it in and out of change in the bathroom.
some by one thing down the republicans yet another things not yeah, I mean look. I think the problem becomes. If the next potential government shut down fight hinges on ukraine aid, you could then see mccarthy and has public and shutting down there.
I over that yeah and in wild in mccarthy, was accusing democrats of shutting down the government to support you.
Even on the sunday shows which royally pissed off a whole lot of Democrats yeah an aunt will. I think that there is your right
The congress is behind where the country has moved on the issue. There are still a majority, certainly in the senate.
there's, still a majority in the house that, if it came to a vote, would support ukraine aids, it's the same dynamic that keeps buying out if a bill. Ah, if a bill came to the
for the majority for it, but there's not a majority among republicans for right right in the support for supporting ukraine has slipped precipitously among republican support,
But of course it is also not a majority, among republicans for any kind of funding bill right now, so that might save the ukraine
aid in the end, because you need to vote right and then the dynamic continues to be the same. The only bill that can pass the house and the Senate is a bipartisan bill with more democrats in the,
in the in the house than republicans announced, while the other thing that might save ukraine aid,
heard. Another government shut down is mad gates's antics here yeah, because now the fun really begin
not only we're gonna, have another potential shut down fightin forty five days, but we have a fight.
Over who should be speaker of the house. That's good! That's about to happen right now. This week, Kevin Mccarthy had a choice.
in shutting down the government or potentially losing his job? As speaker and sure enough gate said he plans to file a motion to vacate this week. Here is on the house floor and talking to reporters afterwards. It is going to be difficult for my republican friends too.
Calling president Biden feeble. While he continues to take speaker, Mccarthy's lunch money and every negotiation. What
commitments were made to pray to President Biden.
continue the spending of president Biden in exchange
doing things for president Biden. It is becoming increasingly clear who the speaker of the house already works for, and it's not the republican conference. If Kevin Mccarthy works for democrats and utilise its democratic
in order to keep power. That would be consistent with everything we've seen from him and if we're going to miss a project president trump about this, I have an web with moses advised. I think I'm going to keep that between the two of us
man that these five years is far less resources enjoy this moment of fun before the casket
you said it somehow redound to a terrible catastrophe that we're not gonna get hundreds dead, omitted islamic, very fun. Look maggots is a pagan.
Yeah yeah loving areas, locking moment of this and then he's going to the floor.
and giving speeches that you could just copy and paste into
cries cut mad campaign. It's all of that bank. You may. I believe it will be in kind contribution by the way that it is prey
market were at where the current speaker of the house were.
nurtured in so many ways, but it is a bit unusual that it is just a thing that republicans and democrats
we all agree, Kevin Mccarthy is a liar. They call him a liar with an l, it is wild yeah because he has one awesome and also I mean not to defend Kevin Mccarthy.
But he kind ahead to lie because he put himself in a terrible situation in the root of this is in order for him to become speaker to get the job after fifteen votes. He said: okay, we
all insert this rule into the agreement where you only it only takes one member to trigger emotion, to vacate vote, a vote to get rid of the speaker and
So that's his fucking fault! Yeah! That's why you should have no sympathy for him, because this guy so desperately wanted this job that he made it impossible to govern us. I think, was Carl Hulse. Then york times said that mccarthy likes being speaker so much the hill, just like post up in public places and take photos with tourists
because you just like likes being speaker and being the speakers lobbying shown off like a shot. I sit on that far as company monkey heart when you get there, that's ricky carefully wish, for.
Having cause yeah got it, but also it's like tommy. Thank you for that,
If people listen to the show know that they shouldn't feel bad for Kevin Mccarthy, something that they were all doing. Listen to stands here, as I just said. This is why you had to lie, was going to house who's going to keep his job? He lie to Biden and then he's going to do that. Mrs doubtfire thing yeah. He had to lie. It was the only way to get the thing he wanted right, exactly in which his power- and I will just say it- will be difficult for republicans to still make the argument that Joe Biden is is feeble because he keeps taking Kevin Mccarthy's lunch money
I think I'll still do without you. Don't I'll take a run out of it and they took your and our it's a. What is gates need to succeed here and what are the chances that he ultimately does
so one member, so he can force the motion to vacate vote that that just takes he can do that alone.
in that vote that will take majority. So I don't know he's put it forward. Yet. As of this recording, I don't think so, but then
in basically a leadership as two days to bring up this motion to vacate deal. There's a couple of ways. Mccarthy could try to kill it. They could basically say: should the house be considering this right now, yes or no and then voted
That way, they could vote on a motion to table the bill
again, you need a majority to do that. So, in both cases, democrats have a lot of power because they could vote too
They allow mccarthy they could vote to get rid of mccarthy or they could vote present, which changes the math and makes it easier for him to win. So this is where all the color
commission start, and if I got any of that wrong, please blame a jake sherman at punctual yeah. He needs it.
it needs a majority of those present and voting, which means that if someone votes present the threshold goes down and then so, if every Democrat that here's one way to think about it, if every democrat votes to dump mccarthy
which they normally would in a situation like this moment that Kevin Carr, the speaker, we all agree now so every democrat votes didn't Mccarthy, then gates would only need five republicans to join him in and voting to oust mccarthy, which he very likely has you. I crane victorious bar
Andy bigs, Bob good he's already got a couple. Is
here. He was angry. Gonna pay, twenty, the cookie conquer here. The groups in group of people that took it that took us to so many balancing area lurking sunlight by sea doesn't have to broil. Doesn't buyers on really matters stand on credit like so he's got he's losing some of them. He probably has enough if he has other democrats, but the point the tommy made stands, which is if the Democrats, although together they basically
decide whether or not Kevin Mccarthy remains a speaker. So next question: should the Democrats bailout Kevin Mccarthy and if they do, would you think they can get out of the deal love it? So I, as I think it is
just the interview job, I envied gibe, how about that she didn't get into the specifics. Anything I asked was also just sort of like is this about, so there
the vote to oust and then there's what happens after our speakers ass right, there's a few different places at which the Democrats will have power
It's like she really didn't want to get into it, except to say that the
only way. She thought democrats,
I go along with any kind of plan would be. If there was actual rule changes there were written down. The Democrats would have like written extractions, not a promise from Mccarthy.
Side deal not like we'll do what we know, not all the kinds of deals he's been making over the last year, none of which he has honored so rare. No, no, I o! U's from that guy, but also
these problems. The gates kin just put forward the motion to vacate again and again and again, and he is threatened to do so so you're right. You could like the only path forward that seems to fix anything.
Some sort of grand bargain. As yeah yeah yeah, that includes will change our simpson and or vote over three people in this room that are put together some sort of real changes that either
some power, the right wing framed in the house, make it more governor ball from a car thieves, make it more government. We democrats a little bit more power, but I dont know is that really on the table I gather so there's a whole menu of can possible concessions seems like there's a my fantasy politics, be I dare I say, someone you ve got a west where, maybe maybe we'll say the tat, the end. Our seas
he is not allowed to spend any money on of you know, against vulnerable democratic races and only twenty four. It's like okay, yeah that sure, yeah and donald trump has be quite
for six months can't say a word. I I'd rather say lot. Politico has
one thing: that's not negotiable, forcing mccarthy to stick to the spending caps. He inked with Biden in may. That dem say, is in a concession it's a given, so that is interesting and it does make like you're not going to save Kevin Mccarthy. If, then, he's not going to agree to the fucking deal, he agreed to with Joe Biden in the summer on spending,
but then, if I guess, if Mccarthy does that than he is I don't I don't know what happens here. I dont feeling than confusing about like ok, so they make a deal on spending. Every mccarthy goes against that deal for what he was trying to pass through the house, but Mccarthy has to go against that deal to get anything pass through the house
the promises he made to the house republicans and what actually ends up passing dozen violate the deal. It's just a continuation of the deal. So, in a sense, what what mccarthy ends up actually push putting through the house in the end does uphold the deal he made with Biden before its is that everyone's claiming he broke his deal when he did the pat, when you try to pass the house built right.
I dunno I I didn't quite follow that so everyone saying mccarthy's a liar, because mccarthy went back on the deal he did with Biden, yes, but he's only tried to go back. He tried, but he tried to go back, but Mccarthy does a lot of things to demonstrate
what can and cannot work right, like no matter what mccarthy pass through the house when the car they pass through, the house was never going to pass through the senate. It was a messaging bill for a fee.
So, in some sense, couldn't Mccarthy have just been doing what he did to get a republican bill through ultimately to uphold the deal because whatever he was going to pass through, both the senate and house would have upheld the
anyway, sure, maybe with the only the with matters here as if he ends up agreeing like to keep his job
is saying. Ok, if you guys support me Democrats as speaker,
then I will agree to the binding deal and at those spending levels and we'll just you know, keep the government open and will keep it open at the levels that did Joe Biden. I agree to that's it then Matt gates could
Ok, I'm gonna do another motion to vacate. Then maybe you
ideally than more republicans. Would
We would join him at gates because, oh he just do this, but I think at that point like, if you've got all the Democrats on board, saving mccarthy is, as one block then like. I don't think that gates will have the vote
to oust mccarthy, while the other yeah, I won't have a majority and is also why I think that any kind of deal can't just be about budgeting or policy. It has to be about genuine concessions in committees and votes and actual power sharing, which is the thing that Dr Paul talked about as well. Kansas be
Did you happy you uphold some policy deal? We may europe geared made that deal
He should be living by it anyway and in my case I mean he's an arsonist. He hates Kevin Mccarthy he's getting a lot of attention and probably had run for governor of florida, so real fiscal conservatives are furious at him that they had a deal that cut domestic spending by eight percent and got a bunch of border funding, and they said no to that and now,
So, but when the trap here for Matt gates is, he will either get rid of mccarthy or he'll, say mccarthy is upon of the Democrats and that's the only way he is still in power. So it's not a great setup for the speaker. Yeah though I I I do think this. Does it changes the dynamics of the next shutdown fight just because I think Democrats have so much more leverage now may we always had leverage, because republicans only control
one house of congress, and it wasn't even though it was there wasn't even a majority republicans wanted to have a shutdown, so soap, Kevin Mccarthy, never really have that. Much leverage, except for shutting down the government, get
all the blame himself, along with his house, republicans that voted to shut it down, be nice and the fact that a bunch of republicans who are invited districts could say fuck this.
When a discharge decision with Democrats and out of it anyway. But I do think that if he it wants to keep his job van, he will have to agree to keep the government open and work with democrats to pass him right, and as part of that, you can come up with some kind of real change, because you have a majority that would be able to say you need maggots, plus ten other assholes to do a right and mccarthy mccarthy. Might
be banking on the fact that Democrats will look at the menu of options they have in front of them, for who could come next and decide that a lying asshole, who will say anything, is actually their best option because he has no principles, give him the votes anyway, no principles. How would how nice to have a? We can look at me as he will do anything now for democrats. I think you'd want to make a promise to may be saved.
mccarthy, ah once or twice or you know just to get through the government shutdown thing because, like you were saying to
down the road. If mccarthy is really huge. If mac example to prove that mccarthy is now just d got him quote tool of Democrats Van, you could start seeing more
more republicans as time goes on over the next four months over the next year, say like I were done with given mccarthy and then
Maybe you trigger another motion to vacate someday down the road. The Democrats are like. Oh I'm, not saving you twice right! That's why I don't. I sort of like any real deal would have to change the motion to vacate threshold and some of the structural things to make sure that we're just not trapped in this endless cycle of
at gates mad or an imagined now there, but they take away the power of most motion of acres in their publicans and be so pasta can farming.
right, yeah, that's the other thing about this. It's like we. We we hear a lot about the like the the republicans in vulnerable districts and we hear a lot about the freedom caucus, but there is this soft middle,
between the two that for all we know, this is like completely anathema to them and
a reason they would say. I'm done with Kevin Mccarthy, it's time to move on to Steve's, police or whoever you having mccarthy on controls like two hundred votes and the rest are kind of your nightmares up for grabs. I just don't know we known as floating alternative for who could do a better job right. Everyone talks about Steve Scully's, but he is doing some medical treatment and so they're kind of waiting for him to get through that before they'll talk about alternative, isn't that gates won't talk about autumn amores has been floater around he's the maduro,
is the whip now and he lost from even steve's town trump. What do you know what he's glazed even his out there like even his like there? Everyone even steeply statement today was accepted.
Lukewarm, like I remain committed to camera. Mccarthy now will they need? He needs to be young ready for stepping
ready for action. What do you guys think the call between donald trump and maggots was like good question? I mean trump only cares about harming Biden right, so he's like shut down the government blow up the economy, do whatever it takes to harm this guy, and it's not like he's going to lie level,
well did Kevin, but not actually dump a guy in a second and are certainly not you know, strategizing saint plan like
thinking through the moon unmeasured whipped out. There have been other names speaking a trump. He is in
what again defending himself against a lawsuit brought by the state of new york that accused him of committing business fraud. Last week the judge delivered a surprise pretrial ruling the trump is liable for fraud, and the judge has already revoked the business licences for trump tower in the trump international hotel. Now the judge is going to decide the rest of trump's punishment attorney general tis James is asking for a two hundred and fifty million dollar fine and a ban on trump running any business in the state of new york. Trumps lawyer told the judge that he will hear testimony from Donald
during this trial, but apparently trump couldn't wait to take the stand to lay out his defence harry is during a court brake on monday
this far,
this is a joke
It's so people seem to be charged frequently for what it is
very well.
express. Thank you very much. What do you guys think about the deft legal strategy of threatening the judge who's solely responsible for deciding the fate of your business empire as like trying to like? Why is trump?
matter because of the substance of what's at issue in the threat to his livelihood or just the fact he had to sit in a chair and pay attention for a couple of hours is absolutely bored of his fucking mind getting angry
We are an angrier and angrier. He still has to show up like well, I don't even know what he and also there was there's a. I didn't expect there to be camera footage. There's camera footage of his great
There is a great moment where the camera comes around and the judge basically
it's like a hey? How ya doing, and someone said it's like the credits of some ninety second yeah, I mean I think this one speaks to the fact that trump never has a legal strategy. These days he has a political strategy where he wins reelection and that solves all of his legal problem.
because otherwise, being like a sea that guy over their controls, my fate foot
because of a really really weird thing for him to do
the balls to hurt me most people gravel before a judge deciding their fate. I'm not guilty
he's guilty. He should be
or also lies with you, like trump, was like in one of his truth
with something like. I need a judge, federal state anywhere, please, sir,
judge Helen. It's weird that trump is very mad. That is not getting a jury trial, but that's because his lawyers forgot- or just just
I did not request for one year. They do now it's in the hands of the fit these fadus nanda. This judge that he hates it. I was there. I was like no one asked for jury. That's why I'm deciding you could ask for jury, nor thus from it, and also to the abbey, like I don't know,
I just didn't fully internalize how quickly this trial was in his yard and, like the fair tat track, it is very hard to keep track of trials. It is it is, but like that you know they would be
I did this surprise ruling, say hey. I looked at what you ve both presented wing go straight to damages you're like week. This is it this is open and shut, and so who knows what they were preparing for? They must be quite a shock to go
thinking. Oh I'm gonna be in a trial where I get to at least tredah assert innocence. Did that the outcome,
in doubt, and how its purely about how much he, oh
and how much the damages, and that is that is a people. That's trapped, he's trap there. I find it incredibly difficult to believe that these lawyers, or are gonna, let donald trump
testify. I I I saw something that perhaps when the defence lawyer told the judge, they would be hearing testimony from donald trump. It might be the testimony that was already
recorded in the earlier stages of the four illness trial, and maybe they'll just play it for this for us
I dunno know why they would need to because the judge would it but could have already watched it, but like a met, putting donald trump understand. It's me great. I can't wait but
yeah, but trump's, probably like look every time I shop at one of these things or may I get a five point boost in the polls. So here I am again ranting about another judge yeah. Maybe he just assumes he's going to lose. He wants to shape public opinion and he also thinks he's going to appeal this and eventually hit some rightwing judge somewhere.
And the latter. If it does it go he's already lost,
Yeah he's lost. This is going to be about the number. So this is just about a number and like what he owes. There was a criminal trial last year where his cfr got sent to jail. Yeah, just like pretty well established fact pattern here, yeah, I don't think I don't think he's gonna be too successful, which is also I mean. Perhaps the forgetting to ask for the jury was intentional, because maybe trump just thought he'd have better luck, telling everyone that it was a cricket judge than it was.
Crooked jury, although I don't really think he care that much, but that six of the treaty you gaelic, maybe one aggregate yeah right leg, Bernie argon their swift. Yet as I through this thing to stand, I went near it is my job just want firefighters from staten island bedside jerry. Please, please, your honour
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So, together,
from was right here in anaheim california. Over the weekend economic, china disney with china does he was there. There were california republican, convey
and he laid out his larger vision.
for law and order in a second term during a rambling speech liberalism here, I will direct aid completely overhauled
the oj to investigate every radical da and agee in america, races in reverse enforcement, and you don't,
somebody or if somebody's beating you buy ten fifteen or twenty points like we're doing with crooked Joe Biden. Let's indict that mother vat collection,
I will stand up too crazy nancy pelosi ruin san Francisco hauser has
going by the way. Anybody very simply, if you,
Rob was sure you can fully expect to be
shot as you are. Leaving that shot. I mean
if so, this is all being covered. As background noise, like I had this, do not the trump trump calling for the execution of suspected shoplifters as they walk out the door of the store that isn't that do not make a lot of headlines.
The atlantic sprang classes, calling this the banality of crazy professor.
He argues that the press needs to treat trump's incitements and lawlessness as the story of the twenty twenty four election. What do you? What do you guys think it seems it seems like that's yeah well when,
nice. I guess, but like does what binds doing when he's trend it. You know draw attention to this matter, we're doing
we're talking about? I don't. I don't know how this point he
He has a nerd us to this kind of stuff. He is doing this every day, rent a shoot deserved red to execute mark milly last week that that was the fifth story that,
bubbled up a bubble up and also to look mark milley got booked on sixty minutes and made comments about this, I think, is his. I final speech as chairman of the joint chiefs reference. You know sort of like not kowtowing to dictators. I do think this
for every time someone yells about something not getting covered. It ends up getting covered. I think this was like a late night speech and what a saturday night Friday night written in anaheim, so not the wasn't downtown
but am I right, you're right that Biden is making a political violence threats to the courts like that was a big part of the speech in the interview that we're gonna talk about the next section that he did so it is becoming part of the narrative in the campaign, but yeah. Of course, it's crazy to shoot. The shoplifters is an insane
think for a president to suggest- and you know you can't really say. Oh, let's just trump says these crazy things like he has put out a proposal campaign proposal policy proposal that, if he's president again they will, he will execute drug dealers right. So it's it's not that far from drug dealers to shoplifters he's talked about. You know sending federal troops into cities that have high crime rates, using the insurrection act next time around using also troops to start deporting immigrants right
like he is he starting to propose these things and, of course they want to clear out all the bureaucrats in the federal government so that they only have trump loyalists, who will carry out all these plans and not worry about adhering to the constitution or the law, or so it's something to something to actually be quite scared about. I think
yeah. I guess I I agree. I just I also like you know. We beans
she pushed it out of the headlines. But, like you know, clearing lafayette park, one of the first one of the first one of them, one of the
they twenty sixteen of rivals was I guy. You got a knock the crap out of like he's jogging talking about drug dealers being executed for very long time. This is like
the reality is yes, these are more extreme statements. They are also incremental to the crazy shit he's been saying for years now. Do things quickly worth one at that
he's not alone in making some of these comments. Rhonda santas is talking about executing suspected drug dealers trafficking drugs across the border, and when pressed on how you would
figure out someone's a drug dealer verses at genoa apparent with the kid he was. I
we figured out interacts we'll figure out here. We absolutely did not figure it out in Iraq. We have horrific problem with killing civilians, so you, like this kind of blood, thirsty law and order rhetoric.
is gaining a lot attraction on the right. There are chasing each other to a darker darker place on this stuff and
chilling to me is obviously it is terrible down from is saying these things, but joking about how how Nancy policies husband was,
beaten in the head with a hammer during a home invasion, getting laughs the the blood curdling cheers from
but about shooting shoplifters. The problem right is that over dec
it's. The right wing media has like stirred these people up and gotten them. To this point, trump was the one who figured it out, but so have a lot of other people. Now too and look. I don't think that
The media needs to
with this in a way words like look how bad trump is re again
It's not the media's job. To win the election for democrats, but if we think back to a lot of the complaints around the CNN town hall with trump and caitlin cons, it was an. Why are we platforming trump again right or we shouldn't there? There's this whole movement like we should amplify his message: the mistaken twenty. Sixteen was platforming trump and amplifying his message: blah blah blah blah blah like the
or trump that people here the worse it is for right, has appointed his approval ratings tank or go go, go the lowest straight, trying to take health care way. Charlottesville January sixth, the daily covin press conferences, the more people here from trump the worse it is for right, like that led the person who is best at prosecuting the case against trump is not a democratic side, a republican, it's not a lawyer. It's not a jew
I urge its donald trump laggard, and I just think that, like the via the media sort of over corrected from twenty sixteen and ways and twenty twenty by thinking like all, we don't need to platform it all the time or less have people listen to him, like, I think people
need to hear him all the time was russia now and look the drug
Santos is super. Peck today decided
release a bunch of poles that show him losing by between twenty eight and thirty one in early primary states
Why, on head to head matchups, dump trump is getting over fifty percent in new Hampshire, so I think everyone's just gotta wrap their heads around the fact that there's like a ninety,
Chance trump is the republican nominee, if not ninety five under resent Annie.
and have a fifty fifty chance against Joe Biden. So, yes, I do think the coverage of these kinds of comments and all the other things he sing, we'll pick up and increase. My concern is the overlap of, whereas some of these issues will be popular. I think the really hard line, bloodthirsty immigration rhetoric is more popular than people think, and it's really scary
the same is talking about act deporting every one who came into the country during the buttons region, the seven million illegal yeah. I might my my question
and all this as yet like. I agree trumpets at least popular when his most in people's faces, but also memories are short
Donald trump was at his lowest ebb after access hollywood, and you know James Comey.
He had a letter. Yes, that hurt Hillary Clinton, but one of the things it did as a kind of push donald trump scandals I'd just for a couple days.
for long enough for people to forget just enough that just enough people forgot our heinous, he was
like george writing, covering this now is really important. Yeah
people should understand how much of a threat dont trumpets. How extreme is rhetoric has gotten, but really like with its view. Do
this is gonna, be something we re dealing with for the next seven months. I realise that access hollywood seemed like a bigger scandal. At the time. I think
what came after in the many years after access hollywood at least made me think that there is a difference between trump being caught, saying things that are horribly offensive and trump saying things that could end up affecting people's lives in a tangible way, because it would result in policy from donald trump. So I do think that, like like january six short like at least these sort of these incitement to violence, physical violence to political violence, I think that lands with people and lands with voters in a different way than your typical donald trump set something crazy today or dollar
it's nothing horribly offensive about this person or that person or that person, and I just think that we get at like the Biden folks. They totally understood this. Ah, in the run up to the twenty twenty two midterms and the january six committee understood it and Biden understood it, and I think, like making sure that that message is out there and that people are understanding what could actually happen if Donald trump wins
can be the most important thing to do. Yes, just really hard, and he didn't Biden in his speech at the Mccain institute tried to get into the schedule. F changes and remember in removing civil service protection from all these federal employees, which is a really
big deal and uniting
I've laid out well, like trump, is gonna. Make civil servants pledge fealty to him and not to the constitution, and not of any protections is just
The thing to explain, yeah and I think, located It- wasn't a it was an official speech, then he's not in like campaign mode right, but the easier way, the more understandable way to say that is like yeah mike flynn in charge of the defense department and sidney powell is a g right leg. You just you gotta, make it easier for people understand them like. Oh, no he's going to get rid of a silly
servant bureaucrat and replace them with a political appointee. Like that's, that's not very young, a lot of people, yup yeah, I mean you. You said it, but like one of trump's,
Lois moments wasn't actually because of his rhetorical excesses or threats to violence. It was his position on healthcare. His extreme position
on how it s position. I would say his attempt to take it away. I ve got his ears, which britain is in the same category of like gene.
Very six people worried about political violence in their own community. You know what like it's, you gotta bring it home to people, and I do think that, like
Losing your health care or worried about the country falling into like chaos and violence? Is they both can affect you?
Yeah, I'm in love. You can say that, like people were worried about political violence in their in their communities, what they saw on their television was an attack on the nation's capital yeah. It was so so I yeah so you know so. Biden gave that speech in arizona. It was sort of little noticed. It was great speech. Everyone should go check it out, but
It didn't get a ton of coverage, but he honored the late John Mccain there and he warned that today's republican party is being driven by an extremist movement that does not share the basic beliefs of democracy. He then sat down for an interview with John harwood for Propublica, where he laid out the state
for twenty twenty four, somehow we gotta communicating american people. This is for real. This is real if they were to take over. If the former present
where did become present again
he says he will do- are a threat to american democracy and by the way
this year. As I travel the world I have had to say
ask me- I mean concern. Heads of state look what's gonna happen said mean because democracy is in jeopardy and other parts of the world as well. I never thought I see it.
When someone was worth
I've been on a jury because there-
physical violence against them, if they vote of the wrong, where would you guys think of me?
interview right message for Biden and twenty four.
Was a good interview. Anatomy. The challenge is just getting enough people to see it.
I mean they did it with propublica. Probably is a great organization. They've done amazing work dig into corruption, supreme court, for example, but you know I checked the view count on youtube. It was like a hundred and fifteen thousand right to like get a lot of work to do to reach more people with this very import,
urgent message. The speeches, the other part that I saw the white us, is deeply frustrated that fox news took none of president Biden speech in arizona live par for the course from them, but you know it's but like reaching people with this message is really tough shows what a bubble too.
as to because, like you, I went on twitter sunday and all you could see. Is people talking about hardwoods interview and was great interview and and and binded grade was great questions, but one hundred thousand views on youtube. You're, like oh yeah, everyone was talking
in a very small baba, then it got it got picked out. It'll get clipped and shared picked up by the ibo yeah, but here is a fertilizing. The speech was excellent. I there it is. You know, there's been a few different stories about how he's kind of like drawing on his life
coterie of historians and the speeches. Definitely it is a they're alive.
There are clearly meant to evoke after our speeches in eighteen, thirty, six democratic convention that rendezvous with destiny. This to its talks about this generations, job
because says you know in the rendezvous destiny species, as you know, that other places they have sold their heritage
freedom for the illusion of a living and bite in speech. He says people giving away that's most precious to them because they feel frustrated. He is trying to evoke the seriousness of what the world faced with with the rise of fascism
In this moment. My aunt and what is also clear in the interview, is how deeply deeply and personally bite and takes this and how much he views it as like the central,
go and mission of his presidency, and his life is to be here to make the case for democracy and to make the case for not just like democracy is a form of government but democracy as a practice of bees.
Respectful of of treating the other side as opponents are not enemies like how much he internalize that how meaningful it was from to speak about John Mccain, but there is only there is one part of the speech he gave her. He says for all its faults: american democracy remains the best path forward for to prosperity, possibilities, progress, fair play and equality, and
found when I was listening to the interview when I was watching the speech you're right, it is like a big conversation about people that are hyper engage they. They are worried about the threat to democracy by an is correctly worried about the threat to democracy. But there is another part of the case. I don't think
comes through in the speech, which is a very grand story about the values of democracy and why these stretches so dangerous, which is why is democracy?
The better way to organise
ourselves. Why
believe, democracy, can deliver what
the ways in which you think democracy is going to be better for people in their day to day lives. How can it help them? How does it matter? How does it manifest? Because there are portions of the speech- is tommy points out where he goes into great detail about schedule
and the federal bureaucracy in all of these details in his other parts, where it that are increasing, like very
like emotional and direct and not as sort of bureaucratic, but I do think that that's part of the story that that I think a lot of people assume, which is democracy, is just better and everybody gets that. But one of the issues we see in poll after poll is like, especially for young people. They don't understand why democracy so good
I don't understand why democracy should deliver and we need to be making that argument too. As it two things about that one, the Biden, administration and the Biden campaign would say that the way that their economic agenda links to their democracy agenda is that by the whole goal since being president, was to show that democracy can deliver. They keep saying that and so
That's all you know. Look we did this by parts and infrastructure bill. We pass the inflation reduction act, we got all the stuff,
and- and we are showing through our actions through the legislation that Biden's passing a democracy, can deliver for people right and they're hoping they connect the dots, it's still tricky, but they're they're trying to do it
second, I think, you're right that, like there's a lot of rhetoric so far, both in that,
harwood interview and in the a very good arizona speech to the next step, is to be specific about what the trump maga extreme agenda anti democratic agenda will actually mean for people and bats. Going back to what I was saying where you know he wants to send troops into. If you, if you live in a blue city which is most cities and you and he decides, you have high crime rates, he wants to use the insurrection act to send in federal troops to your city. Imagine that
Imagine the fury, a business that doesn't seem a sufficiently anti woke up. Maybe he'll have his and his new loyalist. I r s director investigate your business
Maybe if you are, you know political opponents in some way, he's gonna come after you with the d o j, because you know
the giuliani will be attorney general, like I do think you ve gotta, actually draw those connections. That's
next that, while it is also a tardy, sell that democracy is the best form of government
however, when all anyone ever hear of the washington is a mess
We are currently, I met all the governments under its. I agree with you, but, like that's a tough cell. I also think this speech, though it wasn't just about democracy. There is also a big, like veterans thing, king off Mccain, because they tie
He brought back the I atlantic reporting that trump called dead service members suckers and losers at a cemetery. He talked about trump calling mark milley, a traitor and floating death as punishment. There was a whole I kind of riff on the ideals that Mccain stood for that seemed designed to peel off the military vote. He went after tommy tuberville for his blockade on military promotions, they're just doing a lot of things,
speech, yeah, just beaumont, just I think everything you just said was right, but I think there's another piece of it's you're you're talking about some of the kind of like the ways in which trump's threats to political violence can be made to feel real per pupil. I think that's really important, but I do think
one thing that and- and I do- and I do think they are doing this just this was a speech that was broader about like kind of like big big d democracy, but the threats to basic rights are also tied to the threat to democracy and referring to the basically, you know
if he talks about the rule of law, but part of this is also live and let live and people being free to live as they want and are coming for the books. You want to read and are coming for your kibosh there's an abortion bans and an abortion bans, and so I think like it's not by, but when Biden thinks about the threats of democracy. It's clear in the interview like he is very
I focused on like undermining the rule of law, undermining democratic institutions and the threats to political violence, but I think more of it. I think I think it is very visceral for people, especially after the last year, we've had that part of the attack on democracy as attack. 'em is an attack on basic rights and, like I I feel like that is,
just as important and real for me yeah, oh that and that's what I'm saying, I wasn't just like my potentized hanging like the troops in you,
cities and like book bands and
shouldn't bands, and like all of that, you know what you can't you just talk about sort of
gerrymandering and the filibuster filibuster and all this guy stuff like that- that all gets into process stuff right, you to say like what the anti democratic agenda actually means how it would affect your life and there's a whole range of ways. It could
there's a lot of people who like anti democratic agenda, is the problem because it helps their out group stay in power.
But I want reduced catches a very funny moment in the speech where burdened was referencing the nineteen seventy two campaign. He says to John harwood, whose sixty six europe
Not remembering remember, that's always interesting to hear whether you had we had another strength. I got strength. Army had strong help to help resolve
finally react rise in greater rights act. We think, like a long time ago,
At that moment, he also use. He start used a term that you don't even here anymore. It is
The liberals are done, while I'm in animals and I've never been a limousine liberal. I will say, though, you watch that John harwood interview and there is the whole idea that
It is like scene, I all in and losing a step he was shown on. He has thought really deeply about these issues. He was very good,
and he was- I still- does his own- take our wherever united states, yet he does his old timey references for sure because he's old, but he doesn't seem like
lots of separate, know, agra, and I said that was when I was feeling the same way and and the other thing that was interesting too about it is like when he talks about the limousine liberal issue is actually getting it. What we're talking about, which is we have to like I've? Always understood that uk that you need to talk about issues in a way that people can really understand, but the other thing he said,
Actually I haven't or too maybe articulate exactly the way. He said that I hate never goes away like hides under rocks until its given. Often given
agenda. Two thousand was a really kind of it was just interesting
seeing him kind of by the time.
Later in the interview and eat he was well.
The strom thurmond yeah. I used to think it would could be killed off, but instead he's learned that no ditches hides and waits to be resuscitated. Yeah and the thing that's interesting is he always comes back at in that in that democracy speech.
and by being like I've, never been more optimistic that america, I've never been more optimistic about america, and I'm glad he saying that. But he's not he's actually
is very, very worried.
Very very scared, any scared in part, because he has a sort of practical understanding of like racism in bigotry clearly from his own.
Parents and from being a very old man- and it was interesting to see him come go there
as it does relating ivy were private, makes him optimistic as he believes that, if an
if people are made aware of this and are paying attention, then we can overcome it and again like we have in the past, but he's worried, and he says, but it has way keeps saying,
to real, it's real, it's no anita and like an I agree, and I it it is frustrating for all of us, but in
at the moment when he's saying it's real, it's real, it's real. He sounds like every resistance. Liberal, that's like why don't you people see this? The way that I see this and I think what is the parts that we're talking about are like? How do you make it real for people and it has to get out of the historian. Yeah hallowed has just
has it. Finally, we have a new centre here in California. Governor newsome has appointed Emily's list, president la funds, a butler to fill the seat of the late Diane Feinstein, who passed away last week at the age of ninety
Butler has quite a resume before leading the country's biggest organization to help elect pro choice. Women she led the fight for fifteen in california, as the head of the service employees, international union she's also been
senior adviser to vice president kamala harris during Conall Harris's campaign and will be the first black lesbian to serve in the united states, sent
what still unknown is whether shall serve as a temporary replacement or enter the crowded primary race to succeed, senator Feinstein, that includes representatives adam shift, katy, porter and Barbara Lee, what you guys think of the pic and how newsome handle it
I'll. Tell you what my my honest reaction was, which is oh, this doesn't seem like much if a caretaker, I guess, the next time,
Gavin. Newsom goes to french laundry it'll, be because one of the three people currently running will have rolled his head in their name,
in react to really like this end, its full of like a rich people and lawyers and arabs called out
former bessie, I, u local, twenty fifteen president right and wisest organised.
an activist I thought user
the vein of other clearly inner tex, who are basically former staffers. There was macau in Massachusetts who took a john Kerry seat for a short period of time, ted coffin in delaware,
it was Biden's longtime chief of staff, maybe I'm wrong, maybe she's going to decide to run if she does like she'll have a real had esteem, but
you like it was well received. I do think gavin, probably regrets pudding, a bunch of condition,
on who you would name in advance that just always seems to create political problems like politic,
it's. The one lesson you want is right: give yourself as much space as possible because Barbara Lee supporters tried to box him in and and demand that she be the one selected to this interim post, but I dunno it seems, like
people are happy with the pic yet just so. People know how this all went down. Newsome made a promise three years ago that he'd philly hypothetical vacancy by Diane Feinstein by appointing a black woman. This was after criticism that he didn't appoint a black woman to full calmly, Harris's senate seat, but appointed Alex padilla. The current senator, the other senator from California, who has become california first latino senator. What he clearly didn't count for, or wasn't thinking about at the time was that there would already be a competitive primary for that
seat, when Feinstein retired or in this case, died featuring a black woman, Barbara Lee and then he said, he wouldn't appoint anyone who's running in the primary because he didn't want to give that person an unfair advantage when voters were going to decide soon. Anyway, then, last week his office issued a clarification saying anyone who you appoint
was freed also run in the primary? Which of course was always the case, because there is
We are saying, there's no such thing as an interim replacement. That has conditions where you can't run rice, let's not the Armand an so, but I do think to tommy's point like
as a butler. First of all, resume is stellar very exciting that she's going to be California's newest senator, but because she is such a long time, democratic party
the activist and organizer close with vice president harris. She almost served as newsom's chief of staff. At one point he tried to make her chief of staff. It does make me think that it's very possible she has already decided that she's not going to
run and communicated that two new some and he knew that when he picked her again things changed, she could decide how
I'm gonna to gonna run now, and if so, she would have five months to put together campaign and raise a fuck load of money.
Adam schiff was out today reminding everyone that he has thirty two million dollars. The other thing about it is that lesbians, famously I can very quickly, come to a decision to pursue something long term and that's that's part of it as well. I don't even
we get it. There are as yet, no one
anyway, there's now does now for elections to scale reserves, because there is a special election to fill out the last week's feinstein term, meaning that, like once the election
november. Twenty twenty four there will be between november and january when the new centers sworn in there'd, be like a us up, a slice of like about a month for someone to become senator, but the the primary will for the special election will be held
same day as the primary for the general election in march and then the two other elections. The final, the the outbreak general election for the special, the general action for the full six years will happen in november
do all these canada that is going to file for both and I'm hoping everyone's voting for the same person twice. I think they're all going to do what the other ones are going to do, because you don't want to like if schiff decides to go on the special then
porter and lee art they're going to file in the special two's I met. I wondering if they ll have some kind of communication like a real doing this. Are we not doing this like? What's happening,
the funds, a butler, will file for the special and then shall serve out the last month and in the rest, the other three will set.
Work as part of a speech where she says I have decided to file for this una, knocking
do the election and yeah that would require,
I think a little bit more of a collegial california delegation that doesn't always get along. I'm not sure that Katie Porter's going to do what gavin newsom's team wants her to do.
when it says early yeah, but I like, I said I think they all probably like lafond, the butler they probably all know le fons about literature should talk to all of them to rate she's. You know part been part of california politics and I do think, was a smart pick from newsom, because you know who's getting criticism from the congressional black caucus, the congressional progressive caucus, Barbara lee supporters and he selected someone who is not going to get criticism from any of those people and sure enough. The cbc applauded the choice of la fonda butler after criticizing him on the barbara lee thing. So I think he sort of headed off any criticize.
about the pick, because it's hard to criticize, pin picking someone who is progressive and a labour leader- and you know head of Emily's list this started because he didn't want to be criticized and now he's ending it by trying to not be criticized- and I hope it all works out- hey just based on this conversation. Are there things we could do instead of democracy? Are there alternatives? This is too complicated. She seems really cool. I wonder if she's young, too she's, like forty four or forty five,
Did she currently those in maryland? I said
their a derelict or something like question. Just you just have to register devote california before the euro
yeah. That's all that's what the rules say. I was getting an apartment or something yeah well, she's been in california forever too so she's been like a fixture and it's not like she's a a real carpet. Bagger here she's but she's
six year of california politics for years and years, and he just needs a mailing address: yeah yeah yeah, two decades she was leader of esea in california. So all right before we go to break too quick housekeeping notes,
the supreme court has officially back in session, and if you want to know what kind of bullshit they're up to this term, strict scrutiny is just the pod.
you melissa, Marie lipman and kate. Shaw are brilliant funny and make the law accessible for dummies like us, listen to new episodes of strict scrutiny each week wherever you get your pods also this week as apparently banned book week. You know I said last
was like. You always call that you are aware. How do I remember that the union's most important weak anyway go to voting?
We're gonna come find other ways to help fight, but bands across the country. We also have some fun merging the crooked store. There is free, the books march, are you afraid of
looks tease that are well time for halloween and kids. Tease in one sees that say, read me: a band book check it out a cricket complex store when we come back permitted,
Paul talks to love it about what role Democrats will play in the mccarthy gates,
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The government didn't shut down, but the house is still a should show after last minute passage of a bipartisan short term. Funding, though, that pushes the next funding deadline to november Kevin Mccarthy's,
eyes or in a frenzy trying to save the speakers job as mad gates with a right wing rebellion to remove him, an effort that includes reaching out to democrats to help him do it joining us,
was understand. What is
happening and why she didn't send gates's call to voice mail. The chair,
the progressive cock, a representative from illinois power can back to the pod. Thank you
Thank you for having made all right so for weeks we are hearing.
mccarthy, wouldn't work with democrats to get to see our past because he wouldn't risk the gavel, which is, of course exactly what he ended up doing. What can you tell us about how this went down?
there was a lot of conversation that Mccarthy had to somehow prove a shutdown had to happen,
preventive shut down? What change? What did you see? What I think
that's exactly right. I mean we have to get down to the end, which is terrible
terrible way to run government, but I think, from his perspective, he just didn't have the vote.
And he kept leaning more and more to the right to try to get the votes, but when it became clear that he still wasn't gonna get the votes, despite cutting spending by thirty percent across the board. Despite putting in all these terrible border,
which means he still wasn't going to have the vote. He realized that two things one he was going to need us and two that the Senate was going to jam him with ukraine funding which his people were not going to want. If we didn't pass something first
and I think both of those things lead to him, realizing that one way or another he's going to have a motion to vacate. He should get this deal done and perhaps bring more people in through doing that. Yeah president Biden after the deal came through through said that he was hoping that this process,
This would cause Kevin Mccarthy to have some kind of a revelation.
I don't know if you saw any light shining down on him or any kind of religious experience.
In his eyes, but is the fact that he thought no matter what he could do,
that gates and the and the far right of his congress was gonna. Try to remove him is that impart why the governor
and shut down. Look. There was no
hello, suddenly shining above covered mccarthy's head? He didn't undergoes some kind of a big spiritual transition eyes and that close enough john too.
To look in his eyes and see anything has changed in his soul. Kevin Mccarthy exists every day to make sure that he can be speaker just two hours later for hers later six hours later, and I think the pressure from a lot of his republicans and Biden districts was getting intense. They didn't want the government to shut down. The pressure from the senate was getting intense because there was a senate effort
push a bill over to us and I think he realized that he was going to get a motion to vacate one way or another so might as well bite the bullet get. This done hope that he could buy some goodwill. We could talk about whether or not heated but hoped that he could buy some goodwill and just move forward, and I think that's exactly what happened. So I think there's
a place where the far right and I think, a lot of democratic, virtually everyone agrees something that is that Kevin Mccarthy isn't,
reliable negotiator. People just don't trust him at a mac gates reached out to you or to find out what Democrats might do in the event of this effort to em. You know a motion to vacate which is never to remove the speaker
you you kicked, you tell them. Basically we're not gonna dealing with us today. Let's get the government open but but
What is your? What is your take on? What Democrats should be doing in response to this effort to remove mccarty yeah? Well? First of all, I did tell him that any shot of us working with him would have to come after. We had a cr, a continuing resolution to fund the government, and so I think he gets, and you know I think, that helped and making sure he didn't push a motion to vacate soon, and we have had these conversations and really thought through all the scenarios with the progressive caucus and our aim is to put as much power in the hands of hakeem jeffries.
is our leader as possible and so that the way to do that because Kevin Mccarthy's completely unreliable, I mean, let's look at the fact that the guy made a deal with the president signed a bit.
into law, around funding levels and then immediately flipped on it. Let's look at the fact that heat apparently told the president that he wanted to do ukraine funding according to the president, but when the president said that he immediately flipped and said not unless we do border stuff.
So the guy has completely unreliable, and that is one thing that both democrats and republicans
We he's a liar, and so, if we are going to think about anything in this is really going to be a call for our leadership, but also, ultimately for all of us. We just need to make sure that it is better
it's into the rules of the house that that it isn't just rely on Kevin Mccarthy's goodwill or that halo to suddenly come shining down, or you know anything like that, but it's actually baked into the rules of the house, and so that's. I think what we're hoping will happen. So I'm trying to understand that
similar to what you said earlier last week that basically we don't. We can trust him. Mccarthy, if we're gonna do something that involves concessions. It's gotta be
it written down, not one of these side agreements that Kevin Mccarthy seems to make where he promises people things, and they say that he's gone back on his word. But then you were
also ask if you would do anything to help Kevin Mccarthy, secure the gavel.
You said
no do those two are those two things in conflict. Are they
am I missing a nuance? Yes, I mean
What I said is don't look to us to save cabin mccarthy unless we have some sort of power sharing agreement, that's codified in the rules, because I don't trust him.
and you know for me once shame on you for me twice. Shame on me or if your george bush, shame on you again or
filled again, but I think we have to make sure that we're not just falling for this oak. Heaven, Mccarthy suddenly changed the same
dynamics that Kevin Mccarthy has been dealing with this whole time are still going to be there, and if we have, you know there are lots of examples of how you can give power to the democratic side or to the other side. So that is a it's a shared governance. Let's think about what pieces of legislation we want to bring up control of the committee's those kinds of things that I think is is important to do.
Is that basically saying that if there is this motion to vacate, are we in a world where democrats are talking about voting for him?
harvey or is this situation are democrats are just voting present so that they do
I need as many votes to keep him. I am trying to understand how what what this actually looks like. Well, I think if there was some serious, you know agreement for power sharing, and I think it would be very difficult to convince our members on anything other than something that's codified into the rules. So I just want to be clear about that yeah, but- and I also think, by the way that there should be there will need to be probably more
chaos with the civil war on their side before their members get to a place where they might want to do that. But remember that a present present vote is essentially taking. Our vote is its essentially saving mccarthy and
That's a very serious. They mean for our member saving. Mccarthy means were signing on to the rest of his agenda for ever and ever and as long as he speaker- and I think that is a very dangerous proposition for democrats both now and going.
So twenty twenty four is a decision that you must be surprised to find yourself even contemplated.
on the one hand, no, of course not. This is a person you moments it.
Refer to as a liar someone who has pushed him. The most extreme legislation that we ve seen in congress
in years, except at the same time we don't
the majority. If there is going to be a speaker, ah we're not choosing between Kevin Mccarthy, hacking, jeffreys. Well it two pounds. I mean. I think that it depends. You know if things get bad enough, I've had republic and say to me: we just want somebody who does
lie, and you know that could be a Democrat now when I say what we ve got. Our speakers sucking jeffreys people are like, oh, you know. Well, I don't know if I could, though, go that far too
for Democrats. I'm not saying there's consistency here, but what I am,
It is the hope of getting anything that gives democrats real power is, is going to be difficult and it needs to be codified. That's my believe. Otherwise, I don't think we should save Kevin Mccarthy, because how can you get worse than kevin Mccarthy? It's not like Kevin Mccarthy has bent.
Every stage to his far right people. The make up of their body is such that their caucus, that whoever is speaker, is going to deal with these same dynamics, and one thing I do think met understatement.
it's understands is the speaker is never going to be Matt gates or marjorie taylor, green, it's gotta, be somebody who can be accepted and get the majority of votes in their caucus, and so that's why I told him that one of the things that I have learned in my seven years here is that you can't run nobody against somebody right and the somebody has to be that you run has to be somebody that's going to be acceptable on your side, because why would we want somebody that's worse than kevin Mccarthy?
hard for me to imagine, but let's say it's: marjorie taylor, greener matt gates, and so you notice that the names they're coming up with are quite more moderate people like tom hammer and tom coal
but still whoever it is. If we don't have codified into the rules the house they will bend to the right of their party, just like Kevin Mccarthy did so,
We're in this period, where we have what forty five days until the next potential shut down, this stop gap kicked a lot of the contention.
issues down the road. They include funding for ukraine, this debate about border security. What happens next?
It seems that there were some kind of promises
and ukraine funding to go to this stopgap. That didn't include it. What's what's going to happen in the next six weeks, will we have we have six weeks, and that means we have to get the ultimate government funding bills done and the bills that the republicans are putting forward right now are total nonstarters in the senate I mean things like a seventy percent cut in the lie. Heat program, which is heating for you know, for needy residents across the country. Winter is coming. People need that heating and things like kicking out. You know tens of thousands of teachers and out of out of work just complete nonstarters, and so what we need to do is essentially get to a place where the Senate bipartisan funding appropriations bills all came out of committee unanimously, all twelve bills.
are the bills that we move forward and those bills do have funding for ukraine. We have plenty of votes for ukraine, funding from the damn all Democrats, plus, you know a good number of Republicans, I think half of their caucus, but the problem is that it it. It has two it has to get put up and I think the best way to do that is to put it within the context of the government funding bills, because somebody is going to happen,
explain if they vote against those why they voted against. You know: keeping the government open or or funding the military just because they didn't like funding for ukraine. So to me, that's the best way to do it and frankly it's the best thing for our constituents as well, because we won't have people saying. Will you funded ukraine, but you haven't funded the government for us, yet you haven't funded snap, you haven't funded wick, you haven't funded, you know. All the things that are part of keeping americans
healthy and unsafe, and so, let's, I think they need to be combined. And you know in an ideal world. The senate would do this very quickly and get it to us before we get to the next deadline of the shutdown, so that, once again, we can be clear that there is a bipartisan solution. That's pass the senate, and all we have to do is put it on the floor and it would get enough votes.
One more question on this, as this is all unfolding, this is gonna, be in a context of this fight over the speakership when the far right is reaching out to democrat
Is it because they want to know whether or not Democrats are going to in some way help mccarthy keep the gavel or is it because the far right wants Democrats to step aside so that mccarthy?
if the gal- I don't know that, there's too much of a difference in that at the end of the day, because they they literal, you know, some of them have obviously has been written about some personal objections, mccarthy, but I do think that one thing that Mccarthy did that has really hurt. Him is
his lied to everybody? I mean he's lied to the president. He's lied to the far right. He's lied to the moderates, he's lied to everybody, and so that means that he doesn't have the kind of trust he needs for anything. He says and that's why they keep holding things up because they feel, like certain commitments were made, and I'm not weighing in on what the you know, whether that's true or not true, but I've seen it from our side what he did to Biden. What he's done around ukraine aid and consistently he is, he has lied, and so I don't know that it matters from from our perspective, I think what matters is we number one we
I do not support a speaker who has a right wing agenda number two. We do not mean we have our own candidate, that is hakeem jeffries. We took fifteen rounds of votes on him. We can take a sixteenth or seventeenth eighteenth nineteenth. If we need to, but we've got, our speaker
What we need is for them to recognise that and to create enough instability, or you know we're not creating at their creating it. But to but do not feel like we have to step in. To save them,
their chaos, because, at the end of the day,
We need to get power for hakim jeffreys to be able to have some control over the legislative agenda over the proceedings of the house, or you know, as long as we continue to keep the government funded if, if their unable to move any of their legislation, that's ok with us all of its bad. So you know, I don't think we need to. We need to get into why they were. I have no idea why they don't I'm I'm not interested enough to be close enough, like figure out what their, what their rationale is. Is there any part of you,
late at night that things well look mccarthy has doesn't act on principle, something everybody agrees. But here we are the governments open. We came to the we came to the within an inch of of default, but we didn't default
and others, a world in which anyone that replacement,
they who would be worse might be in a position even worse than mccarthy was unable to do what is necessary to prevent us from really crossing the line from going into more shutdowns. From from from the risk of default, I mean have you no thought about that over and over again, and we ve actually gained out the scenarios all the way to the end, like multiple scenarios of what could happen and- and I feel very confident in say, adding that the extreme mega right of the republican party is governing right now I mean we have been relentless as democrats in fighting back, whether it's on the impeachment baseless, absurd impeachment of present Biden, whether its on these
stream cuts that are so rule that you can't even pass at the department of defense bill, which is normally by partisan, even a progressive, don't always supported. There is usually enough in the middle to support the idea appropriations that couldn't even happened this time because they put in a nation wide abortion bet
because they put in a ban on trans kids because you know our transgender affirming care or they put in. You know they took out all the quote d
I woke, policies which are really just about teaching about slavery in schools, emulate
so extreme that I don't think we can fool ourselves into thinking that somehow Mccarthy is this
harrison, and there could be somebody worse. So I know I don't really think that, and I think the only reason I just want to be clear about this. This
Keeping the government open was an enormous victory for Democrats because we continue to hold the line, and you know last week, when we heard about these border provisions, that both the senate and the house, including some quote democrats or independence in the senate, we're trying to put in the progressive carcass hispanic card
Thus, the asian cosette american carcass of a black carcass all came out and said we are not voting for something that has bad immigration, bad border policy and so
once we may that really clear, then it had to get stripped out
we said we are not voting for things that are not the fiscal, twenty three cuts, and this is the whole democratic caucus and once that came out, the cuts had to get stripped, and so I think we can- and we all said, we want disaster aid and we on the democratic side said we want to ukraine aid. Ukraine was the toughest obviously, but we got what we wanted,
with that one exception of ukraine, which, by the way rand Paul, was holding up in the senate as well. So you know, I think it we have held the line consistently and I think we're going to have to continue to do that, no matter who the speaker is
and at the end of the day again, unless we ve got some real power sharing and control over the house with republicans, which is not important.
This is not a crazy idea. I mean the Senate had at last year when they were fifty fifty, yes, the republicans have them majority, but
I don't have a governing majority, they can't govern, they are unable to govern. So I think you have to look then at the same thing, that kind of happens with a coalition government right when you have coalition governments in europe or elsewhere in the world. They have to put together a coalition, and in order to put that together, they have to give something of great significance, and it's usually done through actual rules, not like a hey. Let's, you know give a pinky swear and- and- and you know pick prick are
greece for a little bit a blood. I mean, that's that it's just that we don't trust, cover mccarthy. We shouldn't you know what that as true today as it has been for the entire
The speakers have congressmen jive
Thank you so much for being here. Thank you, John thanks for helping me on.
banks to congresswoman jaya Paul for joining us today, and I will talk to her this week out your question for you to church kissing, it's weird that we still refer to the hester rule, no,
the rules and laws that he broke into other parts of his life. Maybe we can get a new,
for that yeah matter. Pedophile, that's kind of the bottom of my list of things that are normally by its
but the towards an online. You know- and I agree with It- lets me so unable ifor, research that we should just isn't. For god's sake, we should pitch on it have only pitcher unwilling
While the only reason I was the only thing I would say, let's keep it is because it should remind people that their caucus
Can I get you another, that's true, but then, when weren't, when we're in charge, you try to use a reliable and we should in any way thanks are prevented from Europe
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Transcript generated on 2023-10-05.