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The welcome in a pod, save america on Dan pfeiffer and I'm alyssa master. Monica John favour was off today, Alyssa. Thank you so much for joining us. I have to say I was quite jealous when I was on my vacation, and I saw that you were filling in for me, which I thought meant we would not be able to podcast together. I'll gmos offs- and I have to tell you I want you to my mom- was full. When I heard you were jealous, it was I was I was. But here we are are limited opportunities upon together. We are doing it so on today's pod, Donald trump has headed back to court. While he awaits a fourth I met ron de santis shakes up his campaign again trump debates debating.

And then send a majority leader, chucks humor joins me to talk about the inflation reduction act, tommy, tuberville and- and you have us, but first in a huge victory for abortion rights. Voters in ohio on tuesday resoundingly defeated issue, one a cynical attempt to prevent ohioans for amending the constitution to include the right to an abortion in november. With a turn out of more than three million voters, issue almost defeated fifty seven, forty three, a huge margin in the state, the trump one. By ten points in the last two elections Alyssa. This is great news. How you feeling my uterus is dancing pfeiffer. I am so excited. I was so excited about this. Here's the thing when are republicans gonna learn trying to pull jigger popery and august is not going to work for them. They tried this last summer in Kansas and they got whooped sixty forty and here

They are again so I am, I am very happy, also favoured abortion motivates people. Reproductive rights is motivating people to the polls, and so I was very excited by this news and just just put it in perspective. The nearly three million votes that work. Asked is nearly twice as many voices were counted in the states primary elections in twenty twenty two, when there are huge races for governor and senate and house up for grabs. So the turn out is unbelievable. Republican specifically picked this. theoretically sleepy tuesday in august when people are getting ready. The school or on vacation to try to slip one past the pro choice, majority in ohio and they failed and they failed miserably. It was really sad for them fuck around and find out. I will also say that, when I put in the outline That's how you feeling my uterus is dancing was not on. My being, I knew that I knew that I had which I found it brings. That's all you're on my part I should have. I should have known. I am also looking for

today. My yours is dance. Eight march to come to the you know, it's a matter of sight of them right, kirkhi, mercer matter of yes, of course it is now. I we want to be clear. For not to draw too much significance from one of these sort of irregular, scheduled special actions, but other end Lessons that you would take from these results can be applied. In ohio nationally for the democratic party, I mean, I think that when row was about be overturned, or at least when the decision was. You know, leaked months before it actually came down. People were saying If all this isn't going to be such a big deal, everyone's going to get used to it, it's going to be fine, and I think that we're seeing it's it's not fine. It's not fine among independents and swing voters, and it's actually not finding it among some republicans that you know here. I think the republicans are the dog that caught the car and now they don't exactly know what to do

think that they want some restrictions on abortion. I dont think anybody watching the cases that the case, rather that's happening down in texas, where women who were denied abortions are being asked to tat defy about what happened to them. Listening to a woman who knew that her foetus was not going to survive and was forced to carry it to term, and then, when she went to the hospital was told you have to be septic before we can treat you. I think that way a lot of folks envisioned bro being overturned. They didn't think that, and so I think that this is. I think that this is much more motivating them. People think it will be. I think that that's to hold extremely severe and extreme positions on abortion are becoming less and less desirable. There are moments in political history

at fundamentally shift the electoral balance in the country, they change, they make cause coalitions to move about. Civil rights was one of those Ronald reagan's presidency was another Barack obama's presidency was one dobbs currently looks like it is one of those moments that changes politics in a significant and sustainable way. If you look at both the where, in a couple of that, I think I think that's true in a couple of different factors- one, and the number of americans who say they are pro choice- is at a record since the wraps the number of americans who say they are anti choice or described themselves as clinical pro life is at a at a ni dear since Dobbs The energy around the issue is setting the the turn in this election is mind boggling its mind, boggling, that three million people would turn out.

This is the only thing on about there's nothing out. There's no gubernatorial primary there's senate primary. There was just abortion and it was an issue there is disguised to try to make it not be about abortion. Two in the elections where we have had straight up abortion reward. it ballot initiatives or constitutional referendum on the ballot. That's ohio, Kansas, michigan, californian and a couple of places, and in those places the pro abortion side of the argument outperform Joe binds numbers from twenty one right That means that there is a turnout driver. It means that there are some people who maybe who did not vote in twenty twenty, but have come out because if they see their freedoms and the rights being taken away from them. It I mean it's just an absolute right thing in ohio, twenty percent of trump counties voted and issue. One in ohio is a state that, if you would

anyone before dobbs that it would have been in his estate where an abortion referendum would fail and fail miserably and that that logic was we'll wrong, but its part was probably wrong then, but it's obviously wrong. Dobbs has changed up absolutely we everything. I think if you want to take a lesson from this for Democrats, it is that we are more than a year the session. Abortion is still clearly a driving galvanizing issue in politics, but I dont think Democrats should assume that that will still be the case and twenty two for it very well, maybe, but with every passing data always a chance it that something can receive further into into the background. It could become less salient in does it mean that there will be a huge majority of people who care passionately about it and are driven by it, but raises, are also narrow in robert on such thin margins that the argument here as we have to do everything we can to keep it on the top of the agenda. We have to argue that

You re like shared brown, and we expand our majority and keep the white house and take the house will pass a law codifying route. We shall be with republicans do the same thing and to take a stronger than that, they will pass what they have told us. They will do, which is a federal abortion is how to keep. I think, there's an argument The lesson here is not that abortion is a secret weapon. It is that if we want, there's care about it and we're gonna make sure they still care about it and twenty twenty four to the same extent, they do right now grim body also, I think that there are other issues, ancillary issues that people did not foresee. I mean there are states in this country that are gynecological deserts.

Where o b g Y ends are fleeing the state, I think in either south dakota north Dakota, I think it's north Dakota. There are about sixty six gynaecologists left in the entire state and they are not spread equally throughout the state. They are located in two of the major cities, and I don't think that when Dobbs was overturned, that people thought people who were rooting for this, I don't think they understood that that doctors were going to be targeted in the way there were that there would be like bounty laws and access to turn, people in and become vigilantes, and I think that it's just it is so far and it's so extreme and that it is affecting health care in a way that so profound. I think that that's important to sort of keep talking about two, because Women who aren't even pregnant, can't get healthcare in a lotta states in this country right now, or it is at least prohibitively difficult for them to do so of course, the vote on issue? One is not the end of the road here in ohio to people understand what comes

and what is at stake with his voted november. Ok, so in november, the quote right to reproductive freedom with protections for healthcare safety, the longest name, Ballot measure is up it is it seeks to protect the reproductive rights of people in ohio. And with issue one failing now that, He needs a fifty percent plus one to be enshrined into the ohio state constitution, whereas if issue one had gone into law would have been sixty percent, which would have been very bad and all the poet who choose to do that. There is a majority in support of reproductive freedom in the country, but in ohio, as well

which is why these republicans so cynically tried to rig the game by change it by using issue one to increase the threshold to sixty percent, and I think, while I think every political prognosticator would believe that the favorites in that november race is the effort to amend the constitution to enshrine abortion rights. We shouldn't assume it's going to happen. Republicans are going to learn from their loss here they are going to spend more money, they're going to be more deceptive be more dirty tricks, and so we're gonna do everything we possibly can to help, and so for everyone who wants to help ohioans win in november and fight back against abortion bans happening all over the country. Go to vote, save america, dot, com, slash bands where you can find opportunities of volunteer organizations to donate to to help fight for reproductive freedom and abortion rights all in ohio and across the country already.

That was it for the good news that, let's get it I had to get to the the more challenging port The weird news of our political healthcare, so this week, Donald from is waiting for a potential court hearing, whether he will face a protective ordering. Henry six case any seems to be taking this issue with his usual seriousness. Here's the twice impeached thrice indicted former president at a campaign stop in new hampshire on tuesday. Let's take a lesson because I'm sweat like a dog up here. Does anybody want me to stop, or should we go forward Crooked Joe now wants these prosecuted prosecutor, this deranged guy to file a court order taken away. My first amendment right so that I can speak so listen to this We speak about the case the case. The cases is a ridiculous gazes first of chemicals,

It was never a second of any day that I didn't believe that that election was rigged. It was a rigged election, it was a rigged election and it was stolen. Disgusting elect you, and this country should be ashamed and they go after the people. Prove that it was rigged and stolen, and then, on Wednesday trump took to truth social to personally and directly attack, judge chicken judge in the general six case by name accusing her and her ray of bullshit conflict of interests and can sphere. If theories How was I have to ask YAP? Is our strong, did you hear, is trump trying to revoke the judge, or can you just not help himself? What is going on, but come on now

he doesn't even know what he's doing he. This is a man, and everyone should think about this. I may not people who listen to pod, save america because they already know the answer but buddy. This is a man with absolutely zero impulse, control that he is proved time and time again and and and are actually people in this country considering giving him the nuclear codes back. I mean that's sawing why, like thirty, seven percent or whatever it is, but Irene buddy, you and I both know. He has no strategy he's in a chaos candidate. Throw everything against the wall see what sticks he's, trying to find something that further enrages his base as if they need more rage. But yet he has no idea. Why he's too he is, he will take whatever comes from his from his case.

and his nonsense. I generally agree with that and I generally sort of laugh at the people who try to reverse engineer strategy from trumps insanity, but I think there is a consistent theme and how trumpets approached all of his many investigations and indictments in everything from Jim co me by mauler the impeachment adam schiff everything. Is he just those after this trial. Yet will heed I mean he just him he would release always wants to be punching? Someone rightly islands to re questions he wants to try to make. It seem like everyone is crooked, everyone's conflicted, it's not just him. Generally politically by you know, is enough for him to escape by it gives the people who want to be with them the ability, beg leave to stick with the right words like yeah sure what trumpeted is terrible about like these guys,

to get him anyway. They don't really care- and this is an obama judge. Jack Psmith goes after republicans or whatever other bullshit and any get it for the p there were sort of like middle, her pretty cynical about politics. You don't really pay engage the news by any great it all up, in other words the people who jointly decide of actions country, its heavy, easy dislikes, throw up their arms and be like africa. I don't know we now and their rights move onto another sufficient. It is I'm not saying this is a plant like there's no whiteboard that in his. I legal strategy, war room, that's like attack the judge and attack jack smith thinkers also element of this where and who is? Is why this? What happens with its protective orders? So fascinating is remember many many ago love. It describes trumps behaviour during the twenty sixteen campaign as the raptors testing, the fence russet park, then I think that's a widow. What he's doing here, which is jack he wants

how far he can go before he gets burnt and he's gonna push and push in pushing sort of understand that the judge can't really thrown in jail. migration and thrown in jail, but she's not going too, and so what you really gonna do be and he'll do that until we know how push and push and pushing to, he gets bed and we'll have to sort of see how that goes, and he might It's hard to see. This is not a good legal gee, but as a political strategy goes, you could do worse. I think yeah. No, I agree with that. I mean there's literally no downside to him doing what he's doing. I was trying to think what could happen short of them, putting him in jail. He could be fined right, I think I think they could find of. He won't pay like, like the thing is any any out You can see he is sort of faced before any just didn't. Do it. It's a little boy called the classified die, there's a way in which this kind of plays out a little bit. The classified documents thing where he thought the rules didn't apply to him. He refused to abide by them.

Nord subpoenas and the next thing you know the fbi's at his house and then and then a few months after he's being indicted. On thirty seven, seventy counts related to violations of the espionage act and the like that can happen here, rather than he did. He get. He gets fired, He gets fi like there's a world in which he thinks he had. It's like a worry, runs in a somewhat who actually like it like jack Psmith. Essentially, who will not we'll take this seriously enough to do something about it? Some will say- I mean it's clear that his he's not gonna to up until there is real consequences that matter to him, and maybe those can can overcome that he's not going to church. His behaviour about? Like me, exactly there's no it'll make reductions right, but it's gonna travellers has other legal problems to reports. Are that fulton county d? funny. Willis, could indict trump as soon as next week for trying to overturn the election in georgia. The york times report

jack, smith is still investigating trumps. Super pack for potential financial crimes related raising money based on false election claims and perhaps most delicious late. We learned from the new york times, that earlier this year, Jack Psmith got a subpoena to dig around in trumps twitter d, since when I imagine, is a dark and dangerous place who it this is a lot like today you can probably are, that none of this stuff is done any real damage, a trump politically he's, still propaganda, the republican poles, then your times Paul from a week I would go where he's essentially tied with Biden, but you think there's a point we're all this becomes too much for voters the stomach. I mean buddy. I wonder I mean the thing I will say that the dams are delicious. I mean this, though I think also be one of the most dramatic things that we have had to experience like when I think about. Listen,

to the january sixth hearing and hearing about him throwing steak and catch up against the wall in the dining room and the ketchup dripping down, I thought that was pretty trip severe. But when we find out more likely than not that he's been damning with botz athens and when he was supposed to be running the country, I think that it's going to be a lot for everyone to handle, but I am not sure The people who support him right like again we're all repelled by this we are exhausted. We can't take it it's too much for the people who support him. I'm not sure that any of this is gonna matter. I mean, I think, that the people, the thirty seven percent, you know that ardently support him. I'm not sure that any of this is something where they're like you know what this is the straw that broke the camel's back. There has been so much else that

this just I mean it all again. It always depends on on what they find ends and what can happen, but I'm just not sure he has set himself up as a martyr. His base supporters believe that, and I dont know that anything is- is gonna change that hits. It's really give you it's really hard to see the dynamics changing with trunk, as I have it changed one iota over an eight year period right. He began his four prove. A rating has tracked with in with a couple of exceptions,

one being a huge spike during the early days of coven, which seems insane now and then a huge drop right after january six, his approval rating has stayed within a three to four point band in the low forties. He like high thirties, low forties, that's where he stays the whole time he had indicted. He could get impeached, he could have an answer, and he could support nazis. He can do all of these things stays there there. That is, that baseline and, like that's, why our experience tells us. We are scarred from thinking for eight years of this the thing that's gonna bring him down in the campaign, was attacking the gold stars, in ways that spoke furred outside. refunds convention acts. Hollywood attacking the joy in this racist way, which is actually very light, was rude. Husk was quite prescient. Weena has now and then every you know everything and, throughout the course, the presence in its day this.

but then you also sort of think like man, this guy is going to be in this way sort of interesting model What the rest of the campaign is going to be like is that the entire conversation is going to be around his upcoming criminal trials, he's going to be in court or his lawyers will be or at filing motions. There will be hearings be he's gonna, be arraigned again, probably instances like at some point for some number of voters. Is that change? Something? no more likely to change in a general action. Where he's the nominee, because right away the calendar works out, is he If you believe that the primary process will move along on a similar trajectory as

one is sixteen and the polls kind of suggest it might. Then he would become the nominee basically the week before the Alvin bragg trial in new york right hush money is scheduled to start the we're going to get a you know in the january sixth, here in case there is, I think, we're going to then the next week or two there, jack smith is going to propose, They must know that just this idea that he is going to be in court for like the seven months of the general election, is something that we would like to. Thank you somewhat damaging strictly people like us, you workin campaigns and think campaigns matter set of traveling the country and doing rallies all the time he'll be sitting in court for priscilla, for what is right now

nearly eighty felony charges. Here's what I was going to say, though for him I think it works. I think it works if martyrdom is his whole vibe and convincing his base, and hopefully some other people, because he can't win with just his base that he think about it. If you're trump to give him any advice, but if you're trump, who first of all there only so many places, he can still rally and get the crowds that he needs to get to look like he's doing well right, giving you think. That's I kind of do. I think that there are problems, a handful of states and a handful of cities, and you- and I both know, once you've been to a city and you've done your big rally. It's it's diminishing returns. Every time you come back and with trump. If he us to project strength, you know he goes. He does a rally. I just don't think there are that many states where he can earth's cities that he can really rally people. I think for

m he's like coming out a trial and doing a press conference, some crazy, fuck and wild press conference on the steps of the court house, and I think that the big problem that the republican party has is that most of the leadership of their party has now come out against him like there is no. There is no one he's really running against in the primary if any of them who have been brave now and come out and been like all what he did was bad. Ok. Why would any? I don't believe you, you only said he was bad when you became his opponent, not when you could have just actually spoken the truth, if that's what you think- and so I feel like- I don't know, I guess I just I I feel bad. I don't think it's bad for him. I think that he can kind of make these trials work for him. I mean this is sort of maybe a crazy way of thinking about it, and this is very back of the envelope cause. I haven't given this a ton of thought before this, but probably this

thing that is going to decide. This election is not trumps. Vote share its bite, exposure yeah because it's hard to imagine people who voted for trump and twenty twenty voting for binding and twenty twenty four like there's. That's probably have pretty soon sliver. Then you got some people who voted trump. Sixteen Biden, twenty twenty two- they flew back to they flip third party. Why is how much of bides twenty twenty vote does he get count it twenty twenty four! If even the slightest drop Ben t loses, somebody's aids have trouble just numbers, and so just it is a very interesting thing that trump has all these problems and if he Biden sort of has the harder job to hold his coalition together. And trumped. Ask us trumps, it's just a more ideas. gently demographically, geographically homogenous coalition, violence, which is spans from the some former trump voters been, never trouble,

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I I n e n dot com use, promo code crooked for twenty dollars off plus free shipping. This show is sponsored by better help, look sometimes we're faced with a crossroads in life, and we don't know which path to take. It happens all the time I've often felt uncertain about where I'm going in life. You know maybe you're thinking about a career change or feeling you're like your relationship need some tea elsie as they say tonight I mean about dogs in harmony, anti I'll, see this very year, oh you ve, been rather themed. Add wagonette, don't go jason, good jason therapy sure she chased there. Whatever it is, that can help you map out your future and trust yourself to find the way forward. If we think in asserting therapy give better help a try honestly most thereby is about not using one of us really I gotta to accelerate presented, I mailed it

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the summer loss this summer of resets with run centres. Have you ever seen anyone pull off a band aid more slowly body. This isn't even pulling off a ban. Indeed I mean: has he even pulled the bandaid off this great question? Look I don't feel like the bandits been pulled off this is he hasn't changed his messaging mirrors. I can tell like a shake up. You go back in history to shake up. We all remember they involves actual tumult. You know what I mean firing his care, Pain manager that no one ever heard of in hadn't run a campaign dozens and then replacing them with someone roughly similar is not like a reset or a shake up

he's not changing. He hasn't come out and been like that. It's pretty interesting! Actually, when you think about it, he hasn't come out been like. This is my platform I mean by we kind of know what it is, but it's just he's like here. I am. I am just this very, not charismatic man from Florida he's uncaring, medic clergymen. That's the way that he has handled this first bit of turbulence in its cure. Pain is just one of the boats. competent, indecisive things, I've ever seen and political yeah. It is a master class and how you not do things in that with campaigns. The fish always rots from the head and that this is rhonda santa's his fault. He does not know what stand for it isn't why he's running? He doesn't have confidence in himself, as

politician or a candidate there is a way to do campaign checkups they happen all the time. A campaign there were supposed to do well hits bottom. They, the donors freak out they tell the candidate that if you dont make changes were walking away and so the Now, all of a sudden, the they don't have the money to pay, the staff or to pay for the huge headquarters they bought. What I thought he'd be this front runner and the rule of campaign. Shake ups is the Michael corleone rule from the last seen in godfather. You handle all of the family business. In one day, whatever staff changes you have to make you fire them. Anyone you, the new person, taking the role on that day. You and now you do. big story. Will you tell him what the new strategy is going to be? You make a hard pivot? You do not do it like this. It is just This is why I and cuts is, it is so poorly died, and this is and is not

plus that ron de santis is not a good on the stump politician. He is not a good political manager and how people run their campaigns is actually a pretty good. Predictor of what kind of president they're going to be Joe Biden ran a tight ship even when his campaign was not performed. great. They stuck together, they got it out on obama, famously ran. The drama obama campaign that we worked on did incredibly well Donald jumps campaign. We saw what it looks like we sovereigns white house, look like it, so this would give me. Rate pause. If I was a one of these like nag, adjacent billionaires who are funny round his aunt is this guy does not have one takes to do at either behind the scenes or on the stop. Now it's kind of like. What's that saying, if you elect a clown to run the kingdom, the clown doesn't become the king, the kingdom becomes a circus. That is where we are, and I think the problem with two santas and his shake up is that lake. I think, if you,

asked him. Why is he shaking things up? It's like cause, I'm losing, but he doesn't know why he's losing like he doesn't understand. Fundamentally, I think as a baby pundit that, the delta between he and trump is so large, so vast in the polls that he he has to take trump on. No reset is going to fix the fact that his strategy doesn't work and that's, I think, what's interesting, you know he he's like. Oh it's the campaign manager, it's this. It's that we yeah. Maybe they did spend too much money, but that's like not the fundamental problem. He has no charisma. He is a dish, rag on the stump and in order to to make up some of the space between he and trump right now, he he has to say what he thinks if he

trump is fine. Why is he running? But but all of them, aside from maybe christie, are parsing their words so much. Why would you support them over trump because they basically say trumps like kind of ok? He did some things I don't agree with, but none of them are gonna break out of the thirty points there all trailing trump by bites, keep saying what they're saying like one of the abiding premises of this part curses after four succeed his humility and political, pronounced occasion, and so Tommy John and john on tuesday, talk a little bit about some of the center's most recent reset and some of his new messaging, where he said that trump lost the election, etc right and even the question was: could he is there a way he could possibly come back from the dead, and you worked for John Kerry when he was written offered brad inertia, parallels or carry was the news

well favorite in that race, he was the choice of a lot of donors. Looking for someone who could because of his military record, could black bush during a war kerry, fired his campaign manager, a bunch of staff? see any parallels from what you guys went through in two thousand and four that could apply to this answers here and there can be now. I want to be alone in another, but I think that I think that the that some of the things that are just like a little first of all, the delta between in Kerry and dean was never as great and the distinctions between carrie and dean were. You could make a case for I'd like there were differences between the two of them. Jean was very progressive. He had the grass roots, but John Kerry was a statesman

and he was going to be going up against bush during the iraq war, and so I think that was always a little bit on his side. You know until we got swift boated, but I think that when he was dark day, I think that when his reset came It was exactly like you said it was the corleone emulate. We had many. So this is why I think it's interesting because everything that the scientists is doing now feels like a mini reset. It feels like a change and staff. A change in staff isn't necessarily a reset. When John Kerry brought in Mary Beth K hill to run the campaign eyes. She was fuckin law and order like there was you know. John Kerry had a bad habit of like forum. Shopping of ass Indifferent staff for different answers until he's sort of heard what he wanted to hear and I'm not talking trash. I loved the man he has said this himself. He was not great at taking the blame for things when he made mistakes and I think that

worry about. Cahill came in and was like, she did more of what pluff did on our campaigner was like this is where we're going to go, and this is what we're going to do, and so I think right now what the stances doing is like how we were sort of like limping into iowa like five euro, and I always joke that. The last time we each other in december of two thousand three before that able caucasus we were at the it's gone city, mall buying sheets because he was going to iowa and I was going to new Hampshire and we were sleeping on the floor and we work and of other people's houses so that we could do geo tv and that by the time we came back, we would be in the unemployment line together. Like things were quite dark, but I think that

when you know, like J k brought in some one who was like I'm going to make change, and if you listen to me, we may have a chance and, like I don't think, that's a santos has done that. Yet it doesn't feel like he has decided, and I think that part of that is is if he brought in someone who is who had that kind of point of view who was gonna like rule the campaign with law and order. I think it would mean really taking on trump in us and see your way and I'm just not sure that he wants to do that. It is interesting I guess there is some more diversified world where Donald trump goes to jail next week right or something like that happens, and now he campers gimmicks over crime plant run doesn't run cut some big pleading policies some world in which donald trump disappears and then runs through its anti, would probably be

Maybe the short term favor from just guide on our do or is it like a free for all and now everybody's got a chance and they all feel free to beat the shit out of trump, and you know someone who actually out on those like a skilled, debater or something rises to the top. and I you know I sort of think there are three modern examples of people's campaigns collapsing and then coming back to when the nomination there's carry an offer There is John Mccain in a eight same thing as kerry fire all new variant, alien strategy before Sarah bail and I'm going to bets on pulls out. I what bets on him hampshire, wisdom. Sure and jobs and others show by who Alas, the first three contests wine in south carolina and there was a nominee like three weeks later and I think The carry ones, probably the best parallel to dissent is because both Mccain, an Biden were incredibly well known and cumbersome

In my day there was a people affection among them for them among voters in their party, and they each had a constituency that was going to play a huge role in a primary mccain had he had real sway with independent, moderate voters in new Hampshire, which has an open primaries. We had that wedding from and Biden even when his campaign hit, the skids remained a the dominant candidate with black voters, and he knew he had south carolina waiting and John Kerry had TED Kennedy and his dogs were a junker junker. He also had electability, even when he was not doing well. People thought he was the most electable candidate. People do not think that the scientists anger, I struggled to figure out where his wind comes or even, if he were

when I awoke what's the next place. Where does he have appeal? Because even you would think Florida would be the thing for him, but that also trumps data. So it's here. Don't you think, though, that if trump so say trump goes to jail right trunk close to jail? Don't you think that this ends up? This is what I think I think it ends up is like a brokered convention, because I think that you have people you have republicans who would do well in certain states, but I feel, like it's gonna, be really hard for them to ever get a consensus, because the party so's so like fractured. Maybe the thing about Republican. Primary, though, is that most of the states of war there delegates either winner takes all or winner, take most and so winning a state by one percent uk is much easier to get to the threshold on. There will be consigned to the democratic side. Trumps in jail. There is a world in which they could trot. You ever think that take crews dead, where he was raise your conscience

so we are. Who knows that I have on myself that I watched the episode of deep with brokered convention yesterday, idling, that's telling yourself, I'm just saying I was up there. switching gears here. Why that so far, he's really, I think we're gonna do god of brokered republican convention. Donald trump sunshine. Say: infection of gain greater on this our two weeks away from the first republican debate. Despite repeated please from the hour and even the brass, the fox news who is broadcast innovate. Donald trump has not yet committed participate. But he may still be debating it here, is that the rally in new Hampshire on tuesday? How can you reading Paul within a free people? sure I do the debate Three maybe Something else you know see some people. Yes, but they hate to sectors, it doesn't make sense,

to do it if your leading by so much, but they like it for entertainment Are you crazy itself herself idlers, giving trumpery it, has it in him to see the spotlight to the rest of the field. Do things any downsides to him skipping this debate I mean I don't even know I mean. I think luck if you, if I were trump, I would want to do that Because he is literally surrounded by a bunch of people, pretty afraid to attack him and he's not pray to attack anything or anybody. So I think that if he gets on stage with the people who have made the cut, I just look like t v. Is his secret weapon like? I don't think that he's you know, I don't I. I certainly do not like the man, but if I were to say things that he uses to his advantage, tv and debates have been one of them, and so you know. I think that if

tromp. Look he likes to build everything to a crescendo. So, unlike Going to do it, I'm not going to do it and then he's he wants to fold. So he says you know what my people want me to do it and I have to do what they want me to do when he gives himself cover, and he does the debate. That's what I would do and I think if he skips the debate, the the rnc like literally, what is the fucking point of a debate without him? I mean they're, like I don't know, he heavy does not do. This debate is almost certainly not during the next debate which the at and library, and he has a grudge against the rig up my brave based on something at some point in time. They do to him. I think I don't, I think they did a series of speeches were they invited all the republican candidates to speak and they did not have a trump. I think I think that set body is. He is held larger grievances for more petty sites and that, so I don't even really now here's my take

I think. Donald trump would be an absolute moron for during the debate, because he, is think about how this place out so when everyone's made, that every one of consequences has made the debates. Agents weren't, even MIKE pence, qualify for the debate last week. So right right right, you got christy scott hair, that roma swami pants cigarette doug brougham has made the debate we are not really. I didn't see it outline here. Spend a lot of money to get there he's a billionaire he's, which is a surprise, but he is here is what here's, how this place up he's up by a ton of points. right: if he doesn't go, what are always you we're gonna do beat the shit out of rhonda santas. All you know what that's a good point. I don't think about that. That's the point, and so he'll just sit back, kill sensibly routes that the press will immediately tweet out in or x out, or whatever words reusing these days and how common oughta and they're all really small and I'll stay above the fear.

Then he doesn't have to engage until september at the earliest, which is when or the thirty I think the second debates in september, so the third at eight, is maps out against, so now now he's like three months from the imo caucus when this happens and so you're right I mean I'm not saying you're right, but I'm gonna see europe. I see your point. I did not think about them all. To try to take down aunt us, which I really just imagine how to send us will handle that we so good luck I'm going after trump criss crossed he's gonna go after to say, As he's going to try to do this, we did a marco rubio, I'm into that, I'm glad not august. Twenty third will be a good time. There will tune in with the edit It's not on Wednesday. Nato will have hot commentary on the thursday part about that's it, and if you want to watch it, Mate with us on Wednesday night, we'll be doing a group thread on discord, go sign up to become a friend of the pod at crooked doc.

flash friends. One more debate thing. Last night in an interview with news, max's eric bowling trump said he would not sign the orange sees loyalty pledge which requires canada to do two things, support the nominee and commit to not run as a third party candidate. So far, the only people to sign the pledge, our vet, rama, swami and Nicky Hayley. Why do you think trop wins sign this pledge? We keep it like. I mean why. Why would he does he want? Because it because, by signing the pledge when he to his supporters is that he thinks the other people running would be ok president's right. Isn't that what you're saying that? Ultimately, you have enough faith in the people who you're running against and he would never ever cop to that. Like that's, that's it it's him

and him alone there is. There is no other. There is no other a king for the g o p. So I totally understand, even though, even if he, though, even if he did say it, everyone would know it was ally. But totally understand why he wouldn't be over. There was a similar pledge in two thousand and sixteen that he said he would sign, but then also said he would has violated if he decided he wanted So it's right. There's no enforcement mechanism hears hooray like they did everything I cannot say I'm the rnc and fox, want him at the debates so bad they're not rate, even while the age for not signing it, so it is a matter. I do think it sort of benefits him more than anyone else because it puts you know you have like the Chris Christy's in the my pencil in that you know this. And people who are who had some white brine somewhat explicitly against trump saying that they would support him right or not,

the other party candidate, I mean none of this really bad or is just- is he knows he has so much leverage here that he says he using it for shit. Singles right here lessons that, because he can and he that he's already made. Aren t chairwoman, romney romney me and you'll stop using her get her son rami in her name does not appear so he. Why not do this to totally jail just a raging asshole? That's that's afflicted bitten! Always comes back to that all right, we'll be right back with our interview with Senate majority leader church humour, but first Do you love taylor? Swift? Do you love Jon Favreau, you Emily several. I can't wait Reading this and I can't housekeeping on the one day, John decides not the pod, but on the latest episode of offline John favour breaks down how taylor swift is navigated, the internet. each to build one, the most successful musical careers of all time and is a

fascinating conversation there max fisher returns for the tec round, up to unpack airlines, twitter, rebranding and Rhonda Sanderson cruel summer. New episodes of offline every sunday morning or ever you get your broadcasts are right in honour of the huge victory for abortion rights in ohio. Go to the crooked store in pick up. Our bros for row merch, which I'm going to read this directly from the copy provided to me by the market department, the bros for rome merch is the quote, and I'm quoting here. This year's hottest accessory for basic rights supporters of all genders. You heard it hottest accessory as always, a portion of proceeds from every purchase in the cricket store go to vote. Save america is no off years fund to support the work of organizers across the country, check it out at crooked dot. Com slashed

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pull shown a lot of people, don't know much about the bill or even that of past. What is your elevator pitch to someone when you see them about what you guys accomplish a year ago and why it matters right, I would say, I just first summit up into words, we're going to lower your costs and we're going to grow the middle class with lots of good paying jobs. So let me elaborate. This bill was the most monumental piece of legislation, probably in decades the whole. You know the seven bills we passed over the over the summer is that people have said it's the greatest senate since the great society. What did we do? Well, we reduced the amount of and it was the greatest bill on climate change that we have ever done. We reduce the amount of carbon going into the atmosphere by forty percent. So

but will live longer and cleaner, but at the same time that we did that we greatly created millions of good news, new jobs, good paying jobs, because people are gonna, have to build the panels and install it animals, whether they be winders, older people, are gonna, have to lay the transmission lines. People are gonna have to build a new car so not only did, and these are jobs that have a future. When your son and daughter gets a job, one of these places you say this industry is gone for a long time. It's not going to be one of these things for a short amount of time, but climate is one of the greatest dangers. We face climate change and we did something very wrong. And very strong about it. I had a north star, of course they were compromises in their on climate. We had a deal with John mansion, but he kept a northstar forty percent reduction of carbon into the atmosphere. We also reduce people's cost.

in other ways, prescription drugs for the first time, we went after big form and insulin offer people medicare was over, there will no longer be more than thirty five dollars and after we did that a lot of the private sector follow they'll, be here for the first time that a care can negotiate with the drug companies to lower costs. Vaccines are free, and starting next year, hasn't story, get no one will pay more than three thousand dollars out of their pockets for prescription drugs. Instead, these huge costs you advocate with cancer and the drug costs a thousand dollars a month. You can't afford it. What do I do that? Isn't gonna happen anymore. Third, we did something, republicans would never do we close, and we,

the tax loopholes. We made the rich every cooperation that make you all about. The stories of corporations paying no taxes, that's over an amendment by Elisabeth Warren guiding the bill. That said, you were a corporation has a profit of over a billion dollars. They want to pay a minimum of fifteen percent, and many of them will pay more. We put a one percent tax on the start by backs with so many people dislike, and we put him number of a large number of new agents into the irs to go after the very wealthy who hire all these lawyers and everybody else to close loopholes and at the same time we did it in a way that was reducing inflation, because we put money that some of that money, not all of it, but some of it into job reduction. So this bill is gonna, reduce your costs and create a middle class that is permanent and long standing. It's it's a great bill. There's no question on this

stance and a challenge. As you know, better. Anyone else on the politics is that not enough people know about a red. Theirs is what about poor, washing postpone came out just earlier this week that show that seven and ten americans new either a very little or nothing about the inflation reduction that I know you ve always prodded yourself on someone who thinks very thoughtfully about how you communicate. How important is it for people to know what in this bill and what's your plan for changing those numbers by the time the votes coming? Twenty for the answer to the first question is yes, it's very important thing know things that when they hear about it, they really like how we gonna get him to no one word. Above all, persistence it's gonna take a while for this to sink in, but we all know I not see it out there where you are in california or me in new york, but in the battleground states. Every week, more than once a week, our senators are are going there and they're opening up a new factory that is going to employ people in good.

Paying union jobs. They are cutting a ribbon at a new road or a new bridge they're going to a pharmacy and talking about lower drug costs and it's sinking in it's going to take persistence, but we are spending a lot of time on implementation particularly in the battleground states, but also in other areas as well. I mean we put in that bill. Any bipartisan infrastructure bill broadband to relax goes everywhere. I go in the most rural parts of new york state and we have the third largest rural population in america. People don't remember that cause in new york city. The local officials are amazed that we're getting broadband to people for the first time. So it's going to take awhile we going to have to persist. and persist and persist, but were spending a huge amount of time on implementation. In fact, just sides has is, as his deputy cheapest Have a woman named Natalie clear whose only job is implementing this and it's gonna think in here's. The analogy

I remember twenty, seventeen and eighteen, the republicans passed this big tax break for the wealthy, but it was hard to get through at the beginning peoples. Where the repugnance either against tax cuts. They didn't say that were for the wealthy, but we crafted message speaker pelosi in ireland. we're gonna keep at it for six months. We're going stick with it and guess what it sunk in so there are twenty eight in elections. They won't even better use the tax issue when they had to try to use immigration to try and win, which fortunately fail so we're gonna have to persist. We're gonna have to implement, but we'll think in because this is just what people want in the same pulling data says: do you want your caused a prescription drugs lower? Do you do something about climate change. Did you want to start do something to rein? In the end, our aid, which we did in the gun safety at people

oh yeah really care about that, and not to mention the issue of choice, abortion, which is going to be a very important issue as well. In the twenty twenty two campaigns. Many of our candidates, Catherine, where it master Kelly. So many the others, use the things we did in the I already and didn t chips in science bill and india infrastructure bill with great success picked up a seat in the senate. just curious technically, and this may be the former senate press secretary may as that that when I was working on it and it many many years ago you You went around you're, always over the person that senators turned to for advice on how you get press right. You were famous for that many of my bosses to do hold press conferences on sunday seekers, that's the best way to get into the Monday papers. Lavishly went very different media environment, Is there any sort of? I know you have a lot on your agenda these days of any sort of like technical advice like that you're giving you're up

about around senators. I still at my sunday press conference and the very successful seventy percent. It doesn't produce results and you know what they are aimed at, and this is what I tell people aim. Don't get into the fights in washington. Talk about things, people care about I'll, never forget my daughter when she was in high school, had a concussion and went to the hospital and the nurse I came over to, and there was her name, Alison Schumer and they said Schumer you related to the senator. This was a nurse. You know this was a nurse from Clinton's and He said yes, my father and she said you tell that man, I love and all the other politicians are talking black there, but he's on tv. recently talking about something that matters to me, talk about things that matter to people don't get involved in washington, fighting, etc. They want to know that you and do something and the one other thing I'd say. Is that the social media, is now much more important and has a much greater regional and ignored at your peril. You know when I got to be

congress awhile back there were people who didn't believe in television. They just believed a newspaper. Anyone who gets the counters now it's just these, the regular media, the tv and the newspapers is missing a point. The social is very important, but it works. And again it's worked in our campaigns very well. We spent more than half our campaign dollars dscc and super pac on the social media side. I'm so glad you brought the fights in washington because now I can ask her about one so has said it yet because you're it's done, and it's not even a sunday. So I guess we can do it, but you'd have senator to reveals. a case of military promotions, is, is ongoing. Its causing problems, I know you have said, is not your job to give republican centres in line, and I agree with that, but people whose job it is not doing. A very good job of that and it continues to want to have this blockade. We also have other centres holding up state department, important appointments and pentagon appointments,

and tranquil for senator buildings, pretty immune to sort of traditional forms of political pressure is seems, like you grow likes being this hero of the magyar right. If the republic, if he Publicans cannot get him in line. Do you have tools at your disposal or things you can do to break this blockade in our day? To be honest about going to shift the onus to Democrats, this was done by a report. looking senator, let me tell you if one of my sisters did this he'd be in my office and he changed his mind, because the lead the republican leader has the power to do it now. Mcconnell land have said this is wrong. Well, let them extreme action on it. Now the pressure on them is mounting. They noted terrible issue for them to be taking women who had volunteer for our armed forces and saying they can't get healthcare because they want to state that doesn't allow them to get proper healthcare and then pulled up these people

what worked so hard and labored for so long in our military. This is an issue that is their responsibility. Pressure will mount on them and I believe that they will have to. There will have to come to the conclusion that cannot let somerville persist, by the standards of washing these days. The problems Democrats have been working relatively cooperatively around funding. The government rather less is happening on the house. I'd better Commander known aikman, inasmuch as I would say, nothing is happening on the outside the law. Yes, What is your concern level about a possible shut down? Government funny runs out in a manner, but over a month

what did? We ve had a great last six weeks in the senate as a whole by parts. First, we avoided default now that was so proud of my democratic Balkis night. Forty five in the fifty took the tough vote, the responsible vote and said we are not going to do for the majority. The republicans ended his body to allow us to default basis, but we held the line, and that was great, but we also have to defend spill. You know if you look at the house, they put all kinds of poison pills in this bill about It was like you know, anti choice and what you're allowed to teach in the military and all that other stuff. We had none of that. None of that in the senate and we passed the defense bill overwhelmingly Most amazing thing of all is the one you mention the the great leadership, a patty, Murray and Susan collins. All twelve appropriations pills were passed out of the appropriate in committee, with overwhelming bipartisan majorities.

Bottom line is then I told this to speak of a coffee. I said you gotta, follow the senate. You can only keep the government open. You work in a bipartisan way and, if you're going to insist on doing an uprising way, you'll be responsible for shutting down the government. I hope they see that the cooperation between these Senate Democrats in the senate republicans as a model and go forward now. You know that means tell him the tea party, folks, the right wing, a mega folks, freedom caucus. They call him now that they're not gonna be allowed to shut down. The government and they'll have to be a bipartisan bill. With democrats and republicans in the house, like the senate in my history, the party that is demanding things before the government is funded and lets the government tat pushes the government into. Therefore, almost

always loses yeah. That's exactly right. The giving back of the economy for a second, the being in a shutdown, was her only hurt the the our economic growth, but the economy is in a much better place right now than anyone expected is down unemployment, is it a historic low fears of recession that were pretty widely expected by parnasse caters? Have receded by that

the polling does not show the american people agree with that? How do you? How do you plan to navigate that too? We have to convince people that the economy is better Tommy's hard to tell people to not believe what their feeling, what you're sort us economic messaging strategy heading into twenty twenty: four, that the strategy is first, as I mentioned before, and I will repeat it to focus on what we doing the two things: people want the most our data shows are get my costs down. They know that wages are going up, but when the cost go up and eat up the wage increase, doesn't do you much good and make sure that this country has the middle class as a future in this country, even if you're in the middle class? Now I doubt it, but the second

I think that I would say about the economy is, and I've talked to some of the experts on this, including some of the polling experts. It's often a lagging indicator that people look at the economy six months ago, when it's in they're still in their heads today. Well, if the economy continues in the good way, it has inflation, lower wages up unemployment, particularly minority unemployment. Down to record low levels and within awhile. I think the people's view of the economy will improve, but it's not just going to happen like that, and we Democrats have to keep talking about it and talking about it, I read your article or column or whatever it was that calling it biodynamics is a good idea because it forces people to focus on the differences between the two parties. I tend to agree with that. Any lessons that you take from the victory in Ohio

tuesday, and how much do you plan to make both the idea that if we are able to expand our majority in the senate and keep the white house some ten thousand, we can pass a federal wall on road and that republicans, if they were to take all, could pass a national abortion ban? It's a very potent issue and lots of people in the middle who have tended to vote republic in the past. This is it. Fluency them, and it's interesting. It's not just college educated or more affluent or suburban people. A lot of poor women feel this very much themselves, so this is a very strong issue for As Mcconnell has said, they want a national abortion ban. They can't help themselves because the hard hard right has such power in the republican party, even though it's a real distinct minority of the american people, probably twenty or twenty five percent, and that they're walking the cells into a cul de sac- and this is gonna- be a very important issue. It helped us in other states,

but it's also something we believe. You know women have a right to make their own decisions and if you were truly libertarian which these people professed to be on economic issues where they want to pay taxes see anything else, will future libertarian your approach ice. Let each woman make her own decision sinner before I let you go. I have to ask you about you us you have you have introduced a bill. You see like you, might know some stuff, I'm not gonna. Ask you to have your class for information as well. events, orders I can get you another hits home what about a hot water these days you I'd just you know anything winked twice spied. We won legit, introduce that bill, and if you will Just tell us the truth right now, please do yeah I'll tell the truth is I have not. I have not read the the the the report. I have not gotten a briefing, but sunlight is the greatest disinfect,

lots of people say they disclosing it because they know something that we do well. Let them disclosing will all know. The truth will be better off with the truth. And then I think of my dear friend out, we read, you know he would sit together. Does this and he had a more view of ufos in outer space intelligent more likely than I did, but I love talking to them about it. I will take that you are neither confirming nor denying the existence of reference on board for those sunlight and let's lets, I would remind you that, as I do I that's another thing we passed in the defence bilby death, a lot of good stuff. Don't forget one other thing I forgot: we have this fend off sentinel bill, that's one of the biggest problems we face and I made sure that it god into the d n d a bill and will allow the white house the senate. I mean the president to put tough sanctions on china and mexico, which is allowing this evil drug to flow and into our shores. So there was a lot we got done

at a shimmer. Thank you so much for joining us. It's always great to talk to you thanks nice. To talk to your dad. Thanks for having me on where's. The thanks much rejoining today, so much fun to do this with you. Thank you to santa Maria the czechs humor for joining the podcast, we'll talk you all next week by pod save america is a crooked media production. The executive producer is Michael Martina. Our producers are anti gardner bernstein in Bolivia, Martinez, its mixed and edited by andrew chadwick. Jordan canter is our sound engineer, with audio support from kyle said

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