Sometimes it feels like american society? If not, the whole world is falling apart? The ocean is on fire, people are fighting, airplanes and, worst of all, every movie seems to be a re make of a remains of a marvel at him and when you feel that way, it honestly becomes pretty hard to care about the nuts and bolts modern limit. But the more I thought about it. The more have come to believe that the on slaughter grim news can just as easily serve as a driver for arming people with the knowledge they need to make things better, even if only a little them. I'm brian boiler every week on positively dreadful guess, I will break down an issue that contributing to your eggs and tap into the power of understand new episodes of positive, a dreadful premier, each riding with an unhappy podcast spotify or wherever you get. Your pot casts positive miracles, Are you buy hit water drinking too much soda or diet? Sweeten drinks is in great what, but you don't have to sacrifice taste for hydration within water hints. Fruit essences create amazingly accurate fruit flavors. I want my foot

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I welcome the parts of america, I'm John forever. I'm drama maybe they're on today show little room, putting fingers finally responds to trumpet attacks and quietly signs a six week. Abortion ban in Florida Kevin if he has a new debts, ailing plan, that's probably dead on arrival, you know, is he may not want to sign it, but as fingerprints are Oliver it putting putting think the proof

The Democrats Diane Feinstein problem is not going away and neither are clarence. Thomas is ethic scandals. Then we talked to cook its own max fisher about the epic defamation case that set to begin this week between fox news and dominion. Voting systems us get to the news, the republican presidential primary start and give off some twenty. Sixteen vibes well has been attacking rhonda santas as a grandma, killing establishment, rhino pedophile for weeks now attractive, but it was this magazine. Super pack add that finally prompted This is, ironically, named. Never back down super pack to respond ron, dishonest love, sticking his fingers were, they don't belong and we are not just talking about putting the santa's has his dirty fingers all over senior entitlements. rhonda santa's to keep his pudding fingers off our money. Here's the response from dissent as world

donald trump is being attacked by a democrat prosecutor in new york, so why is he spending millions attacking the republican governor of florida, trumps stealing pages from the binding pelosi, playbook repeating law. is about social security. Should fight Democrats lie about governor to santas donald trump, the super also ran this online. Only ad about trumpet was targeted at republicans who attended the energy convention in indianapolis over the weekend where trump spoke, but the santas did not trunk promised in our remit. He'd have their back when second amendment rights came under attack trump abandoned us. You guys here, for you are so afraid of the right. I like taking the guns early, take the guns. First trump cut and run like a coward trump. The gun doesn't deserve a second chance. What are you Think of these adds take on the strategy behind them and and do you think, they're effective tommy. The put

thing works it it's it's weird, engrossing funny, a memorable and it's getting covered on in. There history, media and social media. Its trojan horse in in this message about cutting social security as well as well, that is the horse and about the trojan horse. They think the whole think the horses pretty open nobody. I I get it because it's like, if you just did up now such security? Medicare had noted, however, that rather get planning on putting stuff in their area. We are putting poverty, and then you got in a really effective message about sir skirting medicare. In there a place at the right has Adam. We were talking about this when it first came out its fucking lean normal political add it feels like it could be made by any normal ver for a democratic republic in its just a traditional professional at the first get those like David bluff. probably loves the sad I got. This is like a brac obama, verses, John Mccain.

Brok above or smooth romeo in the disadvantaged respond like when you wine about tactics that, to me always says you are losing. If you are Saying. How dare donald trump attack report are you just meeting donald trump? Did you not watch the primary? That's all he does no trumpeters europe set. The trump is attacking another republican. Also so also, first of all, I do think it gives you a little bit. There's a lot. a bit of a hint of where they want to go, which is likes. It there's a little bit like he's creep. Bees he's oil sailors. There is little yes, the boy- and I know that is a little bit of that. Like you know, he's weirdo he's a weird, always a creep. They want to get those photos with the with the with the teenagers back out there. So that's under their little bit. The dissenters response, I think, gives its away when it ends with what happened. Donald trump, which is kind of like saying like, oh, because even santa's, add says he used to be fuckin awesome. You know

you know what your own add to say. Like god, I miss that donald trump guy, the even the enery, add like. Maybe there are some hard core and our re fans and guns supporters that are upset by that I, but most of the add, was trump looking tough in talking about fighting the energy, a powerful interest groups. Are you kidding me? It really was like I'm. It wasn't that the gun one was much worse, heading four to send its result. The gun add. Maybe, who knows how plays for the work it is attending an and our aim engine, but it showed him negotiating for a modest gun reforms. We are democrats and republicans and ass. We were worried what like, where seven years into this fuckin trump fiasco, and you still think you get points by showing trump, not caring. What interest groups think like that? It's did wild to me. It speaks like they vair theory of the case. Here is so flawed. Yeah, like republican voters, who are considering ditching donald trump, are not doing so because

They think he's not conservative enough on issues like guns or abortion or because, like tom, is that they think he's too mean to other republicans if they are considering ditching donald trump. It's because are worried that he has now lost them several election in for some same reason: dissent is: is it making intellect ability by the way. Trump is trump knows that in in what he's trying to says, hey all europe, lookin voters who are may be thinking about two santas he's gonna, be a weak general action candidate because he wants to cut medications, our security and because he's also weird little establishment little to rein over it, but like really, admirable in a general election against Joe Biden. You sure you want to put ron de santis up against Joe Biden. That's what trump's trying to say it's smart that there's a lot of things. I think you can get the republican base to believe about donald trump, but you're never going to get them to believe he's not on their side like first

everyone's tried that it has never stuck aside from immigration, I would argue that republican voters did not back donald trump in twain succeed in the first place, because of any If a policy panache was a bit, it was its vibes the reason it has all Annie. It's also like the guy is doesn't sound like a regular fuckin politician and is what to scientists. Does and this has been to centres- are doing well and use fighting disney in yelling it. You know why refugees back. Are you trying to do it again, yeah, yeah and labour? There is that that line from madmen and paraphrase, which is that's what I think of an oversee designed to send us trump going out at which zalm dissenters is trying to make republicans feels if their needs are met, but dont want makes them feel as if they have no needs and it just over and over again said, gets himself wrapped around the actual, because he's he's trying to win on points and there's this underlying kind of inherent qualities of these two guys have it just is not able to get past. The electability is the only thing yeah and you hear all these

some people that even the ones that they are interviewing now who are like thinking about both candidates and they'll, say you know what about donald trump. You know some. I wish he wouldn't tweet as much and sometimes what he says gets in trouble. Like with it. He says. What's on his mind, I, like trust, that I do and with dissenters they don't trust that yeah, like you want you want. The funded is going to take you on a roller coaster or not, no one's gonna any really grocers. Now ass, like I've disneyworld about those they or their own costs, you get you to stay prisoners, putting in putting that yeah, he did make a joke that he was going to. Maybe I put a prison and near disneyworld just punish the more dissatisfied trying to get to the right of trump on the issue of abortion, he signed legislation late thursday night that would ban abortion in the state of florida after six weeks, which is essentially a full ban. Since most abortions occur after six weeks, and many people don't even know their pregnant by six weeks. dissent, as didn't say a word about the new law at the multiple events he held around the country, which tells you how much of a winner he thinks the ban is one of dissent

his billionaire donors? Thomas petre fee sounds like a perfect billinger done area told the financial times that he in a bunch of his friends are now quote holding our powder dry because of the governor stance on abortion and book banning from a political standpoint. Why do we think round assent to this? He had a fifty we'd ban their. This seems like a political suicide. The numbers are not even close, the unity of florida, that a poll in February that found that seventy five percent of florida residents opposed a six week ban, including sixty one percent of women, wiggins. This is an insane idea. It will have huge ramifications outside of florida, because florida was unfortunately a place. A lot of women had to go to get abortion services because other states around it had even more draconian bans. The only reason the florida legislature passes pizza status of gerrymander, but that just seems like an insane

decisions of a common cause, a political decision to try to win a primary that will have huge ramifications for dishonest and the party in any general action. Somebody closed. It is anti said this to the wall, impose abortion is not an issue that motivates him. I can tell you that, but it's one of those were choice to we have, and it's like he. He clearly had hoped that the fifteen we ban would get him to the other side of this issue without having to pick a fight with the Angelica base that once a total ban, but he couldn't come out against this. Clearly want to do a six week ban but felt dragged to it by the right wing members in the florida this nature, and now he has tied himself to this evil. Fuckin thing and taken here cited by close doors. I wants it is going to follow him for the rest of this campaign clearly, but he go said the motivation is to try to win this primary and general election will work

about that later, I don't even know if it really is going to help him in this primary, partly because of what we were just talking about, the entire re add to its like this theory that the evangelical base they just they really just care about abortion, and that's it like. Maybe at one point You do it's all vibes now, there's that you they're not, there are backing donald trump. The guy who's, probably paid for multiple abortions himself has been married multiple times because they think are no he's a he's, a righteous person, but also like what are we doing here from the other side. Taking the other side, donald trump, on the on the issue of abortion. Donald trump is the most successful republican president in in a in a half century, he stack the court with right wing judges who are who are anti abortion. He delivered them the majority that got rid of roe v wade. You can, you can try to get

to the right in this politically stupid way, which I get a win on that issue. I thought it's very it's it's! It's really baffling. There are reports that trump's been telling anti abortion activists that publicans risk losing big on this issue unless they soften the messaging and trump ones to be emphasising exceptions to bans, and he thinks that all of these total bans are are bad now, which, by the way for trump, is very silicon like it like you to settle he's the guy that literally his judge. or the reason that Dobbs, how he's busy will look as we gotta lie a little bit come on work with me here, he's been saying this for years, he's been saying this for years he was when he was first before he was before he even got the majority to do it. He was worried about the political implications of this and kind of has always kind of joked about the evangelicals. Being kind

weird to him, he's never got them they're, not they don't resonate. On the same frequency, I mean how long until Donald trump starts openly attacking to santas for the six week ban it I in I mean it's going to be hypocritical, obviously, but I can he's going to be too extreme he's not gonna win the general medicare and social security position. His abortion position, this guy's a weirdo, it's the! in the end, the pedophilia, the the the one, the one piece of this is, I can imagine to santos thinking like I, if I am just trying to get this get past this issue right if he fights this thing, that the majority of the caucus wants. Ah in the legislature he's now in a fight over abortion, that makes it more salary and he signed this law now he kind of moved past it, even though the Paul we'll trail him. That's the only kind of cynical political argument. You can think you can move past it because he's going to own the ramifications can be story after story after story of the horrific consequences of this law. I think it is crazy to me. I have really tried to think of it from his point of view like just from pure.

we're hard politics. I remember thinking he was smart for not doing this and just sort of standing behind a fifteen week, ban of the the more palatable politically at least and and and there was that there's a a the republican senate majority leader who is someone who is less conservative on this issue? I was asked why she was getting behind us and cheese. I asked round santa should base. It was not going to have to help me get out of this place is not like the legislature just like handed him, some It is oh now I have to sign it or not silent like he runs that legislation stated their their to make a interests, make what we wanted to have the fight or not. Yes, but are not. There are other republicans in this race, though the potential field shrank by one over the weekend, as forgiven inch. Author might pompey. Oh did in fact give several inches when he announced that won't be running for president, a political earthquake that up ended the geo p primary other twenty. Twenty four hopeful seem to have a higher tolerance for embarrassing

My pants was booted the and are a convention in his home state, where he once served as governor Nicky Haley's campaign was caught, lie but their fund raising totals inflated them about about three million dollars, because they were double counting, a bunch of money like whoops, it's getting through a new cycle right at a big age. He don't a retreat in nashville over the weekend, governors chris anew in brain camp offered some gentle criticism of trump and then trump. up there and mocked every single candidate, single digit polling, vaguely buzek Chris Christy, present wow phenomenal nikki haley she's working hard for present working hard. Now before we get to the rest of the field. Tamiya. Is this MIKE pompeo's announcement a huge blow to world those everywhere? Thank you, John. For asking this was an. It was a tough weekend for me and tens of others. I actually own.

something guys gonna pull the summing up in his pocket and that's number I would have you know. Did you say I love you? You have their hands over their mouths. Understand weight at the prince and its important laptop important moment just drama we either here today to mourn the death of Michael richard compares presidential ambitions that some of you travelled from as far away as santa monica to be here. I just want to say thank you and that it means a lot to me as neo young once wrote. Oh, my god, my my hey, hey per ends out of the blue close per ends, it's better to burn out. Then it is to rest. The king is gone, but he's not forgotten bought a rest on. You MIKE once described the new yorker as a heat seeking missile for trumps ass my compost ashore to intercontinental political heights born in orange? California? fourteen wayne pale like that is real daddy's. The cope brothers

we're moving the candidates hundred and ninety spinning from there he took on congress the deep state, the state department in the world, it's hard to quantify what his absence will mean. John John Steinbeck said to to brainy quotes it's so much darker when a light goes out than would have been if it had never shown mike. Compare the calf pack from with no engagement detour to sunday shows two sparsely attended ilo events. You lit the way for dozens and we all know in performance. You really captured. He captured the tone. Ok, There is an issue that we need the m We should also layer on the olympic angle. I thought you also to stand at will

What did he do that with discipline? Wasn't he like the first person and maybe only person to blurb his own book to the book yeah he does on book. I want to. There is one part at the aunt. Thank you tommy. By the way, I like to thank you for giving me this moment space, so I asked mike Pompeo who, whose whole public respond persona is about how sort of an style the boy s back not an inch and doesn't give an inch decides to give all the inches in step out, and he ll releases of full page statement on twitter about? Why is doing it, but that the end of the statement to be captured everything it makes my somehow some, which is there it's a worse personality in public life, and yet it is it. My saying this to those this announcement disappoints my apologies and to those of youth, this thrilled, no,

am fifty nine years old. There remain many more opportunity to host. The timing, might be more fitting, as presidential leadership becomes even more nasa even more necessary are the problem with that is that is it income statement be like, like a it's, a it's very much like I'm sorry, I can't meet you at the flagpole after school today violin it is, but oh next couple days we're going to find a time in boy. Are we gonna fight it that flagpole, he is really embarrassing? Don't threaten us with a good time might be Is it because even the end of that same elixir, saying that now is now the time for presidential leadership, but but in the future, it might be it's it's in its it's just so arrogant and stupid god. These member be a blessing. I am missing already raises a question. We're not gonna. Do predictions here. That's gonna feel like twins, aouda note g! So far, to think any of these fucking yeah, whose are showing what it takes not even to beat trump but

be the new run dissent as it. For some reason, Rhonda santas continues to shit. The bet is pretty you know you could you would say like aright, obviously none of these other second jokers but light. You look at some of my tim Scott. You say: ok, maybe, and then he gets the most obvious question animals. that you could possibly be asked about abortion and gives her absolute just a word salad. In response, though it actually captures, I think the problem that has nothing to with each one of those individual. There is a sort of a column looking at like the politics of what tim Scott, as opposed to say, he's supposed to find a place in the venn diagram Please, the evangelical base without pissing off the vast majority of americans who approach choice and they don't overlap. They just don't overlap nor Nor does the republican base and being hopeful yeah. That's how Adela rumour it seems like

the plan right now is once again to hope that donald trump will implode on his own, even though they all chose to defend him over the indictment that might have led to that implosion. Yeah. So, even when things come up that might hurt donald trump. No one is going to take advantage of it or hasn't so far. No one wants to split it like if you do not go after Donald trump directly and do so and I and again I get that most of the base and most of the voters in youth loves Donald trump's. You you have to be careful in how you do it, but the electability argument is that is what on republican voters minds. They are willing to hear a case about that. Just fuckin go! Do it

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Let's talk about congress, which is back in session this week, are back, maybe didn't even know they were gone. Kevin Mccarthy is still trying to pass a budget through the republican house that raises the debt ceiling. His latest plan is a one year. Extension of the dead ceiling to may have twenty four right now. Right in the middle, and that should be fun in this plan- would got all non defence non entitlement spending repeal student loan forgiveness repeal clean energy ex credits that were in the ira, increase fossil fuel production, an institute, work requirements for medicaid and food assistance. What's the thinking behind this plan, what are the chances that actually passes loved its funding to say with? What's the thinking behind the plan, Its Kevin mccarthy, ah, you know, is the political equivalent of checking your watch while their coffee, and you

as a rule, when can mccarthy does something you could ask if you know understand it's like is this is smart or is he stuck and answer is never that he's smart and in this case you would want to say ok He knows he's in a bind. He made all these promises to the base to get the speakership, so it needs to go through the motions of putting forward these kind of draconian cuts to show that this key I pass ultimately on the road to what can pass, which is a clean increase that is mostly passed with Democrats in the house with some republicans who jump on board. You would like to think that that is what we are heading towards, but more likely he is just putting one foot. One of the other trying to get through a day. Beyond that I don't own it. He just trying to figure out. He has to put something forward, so we can blame Biden for refusing to negotiate and they haven't released a budget. Yet I think, still even after the speech that the thing that bumped me was doing this speech at the start

market was an interesting show yeah he spoke. He went to wall street today and spoke at the stock market yeah, it's a bit like a an Al Qaeda member, doing a press conference on an airplane. You know what I mean like check out this thing. I'm about to crash, I dunno I say, I guarantee you that these Theo's care a hell of a lot more about their stock price. Then deficit spending. Look, I don't know what the guys doing. I didn't mean it it's what you said to me once do all he's thinking about is I gotta get something to the house right, and so I gotta find a majority of housework. I've gotta find basically all of his house republicans to vote for this plan, and that means he needs the freedom caucus wacko. Those raids, the the problem solvers right. He needs everyone that he has most of the caucus and then, if he can pass it, he can say. Okay, Joe Biden, you told me it's a downer negotiate. If I had a plan, I passed a plan. If you don't like it, that's fine, but we sit down and negotiate so then he gets bind to the negotiating table. The question is: can he even get this passed the house, because I the way

plan is now it's not the draconian balanced budget in ten years, which they ve all given up on or cutting medicare obscurity, which they seem to have given up on his well. But the cuts our deep enough that some moderate republicans are already starting to baulk at the plant yeah. I just it all is heading the same place, whether it's, whether it gets killed by some house republicans or it, makes it to the senate and gets killed by republicans. There were heading to a place where, at some point this will be the the question will become. Will Kevin Mccarthy say sorry guys I tried, and that is where this hast ahead, but it doesn't seem like he is I acknowledge times. I just think he's trying to keep the speakership as long as he possibly can, but I mean creating work requirements to receive medicaid and food stamps. So if you have cancer, you have to go out and get a job, and then

and get chemotherapy. That's what we're doing here and then reuters. I found that most of the spending cuts, Mccarthy wants, will hurt, states trump won in two thousand and twenty more than blue states. No yeah at the both the the cuts to domestic spending on education and transportation will hurt. Those states and instituting work requirements would also hurt those it's because the vast majority of people who are on medicaid and food assistance are in those states yeah. I just he sort of step back from all this. It's like no, this, this ridiculous. These rigorous cuts are never gonna become law. There is not one that by not forty votes in the sun, of yellow dead in a semi dad and so on.

well? Where are we heading and it's just? We were bait, whatever shenanigans mccarthy pulled over the next few months. Is he gonna bring to the floor, something that would pass with majority democratic votes and then lose his speakership and in the spiritual? But I do think if it. If this fails in the house this plan, we can't even get through the house. Ironically, we might get to have a better outcome sooner because it lie. He will continue to fuckin drag this along by, if gate that he, if he gets it house he's going to claim it's a big win, we're going to know it's not the press is probably gonna. Be old, mccarthy got a pass to go to negotiate project we're going to get a round of time. For now it falls to Mcconnell and there's just going to be yes sure it is going to be a bring the cart. Why don't bring you bring mccarthy to the white house and just sit down and talk about the plan? You don't have to accept the plan.

the negotiator and binds enough to say no, I don't want to go she. It's gotta, be a clean that ceiling that moment variable selling to the members that are like you make me, though, for the right opportunity must stop, but if mccarthy fails now than it, then I think its right to then Mcconnell and humor have to get together and they start for cancer. The majority of our agenda, the house, but someone has to call for a vote on the floor. Now we have an update, on eighty nine year old, Diane Feinstein who love it's been trying to shut out of the senate. Excuse me, I know shoving lightly gentle and invitation push an invitation, an invitation to sort of a prodding prodding cattle, as chuck Schumer said he spoke to the senator, who said she hopes to return soon, but he still wants to appoint a temporary replacement on the judiciary committee. Ah ain't happening at first, they thought may be unanimous consent, then tom and was like no, not unanimous consent. Then, ok! Well, you could do with sixty votes if family miss mc

will help us out here and then all these republican centers over the course of the day are like why? Why would we hold democratic judges, absolutely which of course were if, if the shoe was on the other foot- and this was a old republican senator that they were trying to replace we like, oh yeah, democratically, on help out which Mcconnell help them pass. Those coarseness affording crate and so many others it did. The idea that there would be these ten republican votes like everyone from the fund, for this right like hard now the way like susan collins or like I'm, I'm sorry what you ask me: absolutely not zero. So what are the options? Are there no lover, there's really two options: option of her. One is that science and her fine son returns to the senate to participate in her vital work as a representative of the most populous state and a member of the jewish or committee, or she wasn't, and although you inevitable

this before the pot. If she resigns it still might be hard to replace it still may be harsh on the clays or on the city. So basically everyone has there's been Alana kind of. I think, and now this this will happen on twitter and have you noticed that people just saying things like Schumer can replace? No, I in fact Humor does not the ability to put any one, a committee that requires the senate to vote, and normally that happens without incident at the beginning of the senate. To very you know, terry decorous everybody gets along, but it requires sixty votes or your unanimous consent, which is ultimately the same thing and that have basically republicans get together, decided on their committees democrats to get together, and then they all kind of gray, although if your member, there was a moment at the beginning of the last senate, were Mitch Mcconnell held up the vote with a filibuster for a remember. We were like this. The committee's kept me It's gonna be really important while forgotten about it, but it did happen, but Cournand today told reporters that the temporary replacement thing is out of the question.

But there's a precedent for senator resigning in there being an opening in the normal course of business that they would allow some one to fill the seat. Now. My concern- It would be assholes if they want. Well. My concern is that we've now had like a two week, news cycle that began with dick Durbin saying hey. I can't confirm judges that is now remote basically made this not about a routine filling of the open the opening. But a question of will Democrats get to confirm our judges, so I worry that that is planted at planted us. that is growing in the minds of the fertile minds of your tom's continent. So from you, hadn't started this new cycle Durban started this cycle. I just helped it along. Don't blame durban. You always blame the derby. I dunno what to do with his power guys. I've never felt such power. I mean I, you know I'm eating raw meat and thinking about what other old people I can push out of their jobs. gives gonna sit. That's a good idea! Segwarides army other idea a week. We too, I don't make more point, though, about about don't cut them on raising into the now. What other? What have you got? Any idea where are you now rank is vital

why make one more point about this right, which is cause this could happen quickly between pods and and I just need to have said this which is their work to hunt down to take this point? Just which is this? It usually goes given given to say it before it ends up in the message box. Lips to god's ears are usually goes the other way. It usually goes message box threw me to the pot. You know the humor I bet you a chatterjee d for action it's a box, but but basically you know if, if it, if center finds, I can't return soon and there's and she and she does decide to. As the l a times said, heroically step aside, which I think is a nice, aren't the two then it would be. It would be nuisance job to fill the seat. Newsome promised to joy reid in march of two thousand twenty one that he would replace

Diane Feinstein with a black woman, barber Lee is obviously a black woman who is running for the seats. That would mean that, both of if he were to appoint barber lead, that would mean both Senate seeds were filled by appointment and now I dont think, given that the campaigns already started. I don't think that means we don't have a race between adam shift and katy porter and barley, but I do think it we're off. Everyone is paying attention to this. I think we all should really hope that cabin knew some points. He said what he told you re read. There are many people on his lest he should appoint someone if this seat opens up. That is not going to run for the seat so that democratic that denmark, so that we have a chance to vote for a senators that both of our senators have not come from the from an appointment, but that one of our centres has been chosen by us intellectual guidest Thank you very much for making that point that we discussed extensively on thursdays, pot even night, and

now when it had, I'm realisation did you exactly that? Did they really leave and end up, not only that the passage waited and nobody knew where any time soon then no early hour limit aware when I was a thursday pod yeah, I'm begging to show thursday check over me intriguing. Agnes that we get your reader clarence thomas, the right wing Just now. Plans to amend his financial disclosure forms after probe publicly honour all reported that he Fail to include a real estate. Deal with sugar, harlan crow, where the nazi I'm above bought three properties from thomas, including a home where the justices mother still lives, rent free Washington post then report of the thomas is also erroneously claimed income from defunct real estate firm for the last several years, though, that one may be more of a bookkeeping error, but you know not great so dick turban who's coming up all the time. These days,

like a more and more about these days. It has been recognised. More. He said the bell holding hearing about supreme court ethics on the judiciary committee, but some activists are calling on congress to subpoena thomas to testify. Can they should they when we think Funny I mean they should give it a shot. I do want to just talk about this real estate deal for a minute, bs harlin crowed they by the house that clear sums his mother still lives in someone did the math on how much rent she hasn't paid and its they say. Business insider suggest that saved her a hundred, fifty grand. So that's interesting. He also bought like the whole neighborhood he's gentrifying the whole neighborhood and he's he's refurbishing. This house declared thomas's mother lived. And while also saying he wants to turn it into a museum which has mirrored the museum? Oh yeah. No, it's all about a museum which is a weird worn out to him. Nazi memorabilia I dunno for clarence, thomas, oh yeah

economist museum, but if you're going to turn it'd be like this, is his childhood home you'll run out of places to keep all my nazi memorabilia if you're, if you're going to like turn a child at home, into a museum. You probably don't like got the place in an refurbish right, so are not the first time he's made some sort of bookkeeping ere. He also thomas failed to disclose his wife's income from the heritage foundation. For years he made six hundred six thousand dollars between two thousand three to two thousand and seven and he kept clicking like the box, it said now on whether she had any non investment income? You know, just as is the excuse happening to him didn't put, does think these are rules matter that their important that that he should be held to any kind of standard to your questioned on, cannot subpoena em and should they they can and they should yeah. That's it canada should and while you're lying him. If I die

that's the advice that comes back. We're going to need every vote. We're going to need every vote and sheldon. I don't want to be a shingles issue voter, but I do think it's really important, my god, I can't believe you said that till now I forgot. I typed it actually forgot to say: that's, that's prepped doesn't gaze. if I, if I'm called, if I'm canceled, for it just know that I it was premeditated as good sheldon Whitehouse is pushing the attorney general Amir garland to investigate thomas as well I dunno yeah, there's no doubt about this. Our garland wanderer, the doses Barbara, with his candle in his nightgown. slowly moving through the old house, but look I there's been a lot of senator saying how does all these kind there so many different people that you be doing oversight? Will they should tat. They should give it a shot. if they realize you're in. I realize there's not going to be an extremely satisfying outcome to this likely, but that just from a pure political perspective like what's going to happen, there's this all this corruption surrounding this job.

He he doesn't have a high approval ratings, nor does the institution in which he serves. At this point. Your dragon before Send it to ask on buncher questions: yeah, it's a bad new cycle for it, days and maybe to go, but what's the harm even was the harm it rami today, what I can and others who said that this story stinks they're, gonna rethinking to retaliate in since then you were always now. They're gonna call justices all the time to testify great array straggling hagen before the the republic, Israel's largest circling around eight, I can download, I saw my are. What are they gonna do they're going to give great answer I remember when I remember when they were like we're going to get Hillary Clinton to testify. All day about Benghazi, she made you look like dopes was the best day of the campaign yeah, but that's not retribution that I'm really worried. Okay counterpoint, she did say this is from the wall street journal opinion piece defending clarence, thomas a quote. One may be tempted to think that I of all people, a judge, should know what the law says, but that's a nonsensical

entered a judge's job. Isn't a member? I statute books, its discern laws, meaning in their application to the facts in cases that litigants bring before him. How are we not doing take appreciated today that full play by Stalin. It's that they therefore play play games toronto. It's out o his awful I blocked him, you know we're and we were in wisconsin for this ring core raised. It was this like refreshing thing, tat. Everybody was just campaigning not with on some imaginary concept of what a judge does with calls malls and strike. Some the most impartial person ever seen, but it was like This is an ideological contacts in there. real stakes. We have real view. Abortion is on a line. Democracy on the line we should just be. doing everything we can to like pull the supreme court like down from this mountain top, it's been on there are they are living in a pretty good job themselves? Yeah they are but like much their lawyers and drag. Six of them are freaks at least once a criminal. I like, let's, let's

Lets you will ever. Let's do everything we can to have accountability just like it's, it's the right thing to do. and John roberts or other public event cause someone needs to say to him: hey man, you wine all the time, but political attacks in the legitimacy of the court and don't attack it. Bubba you're, doing more harm to the court's reputation than any one else. By letting this flagrant corruption go in not saying a word. You know I wouldn't know anything about his bit schedules pretty clear right now. What I bet he's not. I don't think period a public event and get that question. Dorks are always talking at some law school that some this is. The problem is they're, so insulated from any kind of way. This is why, if you can subpoena him, it's there's going to be a whole like just idiotic news cycle. People throw in terms separation of powers and over region its already.

described as a showdown doesn't like me who s question ceased its, but the idea that, like the idea that that, like the laws that thomas is accused of breaking are made by congress, if he is to be Impeach, it's gonna be impeach by congress. He is got that seat because he was confirmed by the senate. It's not a violation of the separation of powers to have a supreme court. Justice testify for congress were also as we're doing here, is we're building support, in my mind, at least for term limits. That's what I want expanding the court a little bit of a fantasy right now as like the the thinking we're gonna, get rid of the electoral college. Yeah. far far far away or probably not on that pga after six years. That's like a twelve our continent. Will heed famously said: he's rather court for thirty is like I've been friends in ireland for over twenty five years and nicholas. Let's start with some. Let's start by trying to get some term elements on the supreme

That's my that's! My new thought: let's see if we can get we're all gonna yell about expanding the court, and we were so far from that or so far from being able to do that having the votes, but I bet a tournaments is probably easier and I still think it would be pretty effective. I think a lot of these octogenarian centers going to be big fans of term limits. What else you guys talk about on thursday senators and a lot of senators just looking at that wet but bathroom floor thinking, but for the grace of god go. I. When we come back, tommy we'll talk to not dmca this youtube, where we back home, and I will talk to crooked contributor max fisher about the fox verses. Dominion I'll pots, america, What about helix sleep? He sleep, sleep is a premium mattress brand. The provides tailored mattresses based on your uniquely preferences that helix lineup includes fourteen unique mattresses, including a collection of luxury models, a mattress forbidden tall sleepers and eat.

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wow plus helix mattresses, are american made and come with a ten to fifteen year warranty depending on the model. Don't take our word for it. He looks, has been awarded the number one mattress picked by gq and wired magazine seem recommended by multiple leading chiropractors and doctors of sleep medicine. Is it go to solution for improving your sleep? He likes his offer the twenty percent off all mattress orders and two free pillows for our listeners, go to helix sleep, dot, com, slash cricket! This is their best offer yet and it won't last long with helix. Better sleep starts now The defamation case between fox news and dominion. Voting systems is scheduled to kick off this week, though, as right now we're recording this on Monday afternoon. A last minute settlement is still possible. Guys could be in the offing could be in the offing, we're here to talk about the strength of dominion's lawsuit and the many implications of this case is cricket's newest contributor max fisher him acts e pals. What's going on thanks, I want you in

lincoln robot, I added I am I'm hologram again for a moment to wreck that's about its also means you're right around here it is pop and on some very fired up, never no trace of the centuries glamorous field. What can I say so there's been reporting that fox is wanted settle this case for a while now men, so far, dominion has refused. Would you think might get them to change their minds at this? late stage. So we don't know why dominion has declined to settle. It stands to reason and foxes ones too, because they ve already settled one separate case over twenty twenty election lies. There are two kind of most plausible reasons. In my mind, that we don't know for sure one is just that dominion news might just have very different reads on the likelihood of the suit succeeding, because successful law suits defamation. Lawsuits against big big companies are really rare. The standard is so high for them to know we're gonna talk about so it might just be like

there's not a lot of precedent to look through to see the likely outcomes another that I've, I feel a little bit more persuasive, but speculative is the dominion. Has a judge of defamation cases out right now, related to this specific. Set of lies around the twenty twenty election and this might partly be about knowing resolve to those other defend and that we are really willing to go to trial black watch us so there four we're not going to be pushovers when it comes to settlement. That's interesting! I hadn't thought about that. I I I've been reading about this, and what struck me is that dominion seems to have a pretty strong case on the liability front on the fact that fox is liable for this, but less of a strong case on

the amount of damages that they ask, for which is one point, one point six billion and I think the company was valued at like eighty million dollars he has. Some of these numbers are a little like pulled from from from thinner. So perhaps if this is less about a cause for dominion and more about like this. It's a company in at once financial rewards here from fox. They just want to settle and get there's much money as they can, though, for all of us, we Rather we rather go to trial. Like a show, we think like a very public apology from vocs site, it's thou thing is, is a little weird because, like the reason that we care about it and that like people should care about it is that it is a test for like how far you go and lying about elections and inciting insurrection, but the terms at the case will be decided on our like quick, you saying and say: how do you count up corporate damages yeah? So there's this like. I think

like something get is coming through. A lot of this is there's a little bit of a mismatch between the significance of the trial and the actual like facts of it. On the face, I mean it's also possible, like you know they make voting systems, maybe care about the sanctity of democracy, what in hell These are lawyers we're talking about this. It's possible them overly optimistic. There was an extremely easy this means you're, seeing a lot of coverage of this case. I words described as like that. I'll of this century for press freedom. The first amendment seems important As far as the moments go is ever to get number one at rank at number one freedom of speech, freedom of the press are sort of drive from the soul, but when it comes to libel law. I know a lot of liberal, This included are ruding against fox because they lied and they did it to sleep in that is bad and want them punished here. But the landmark case that protects all of us from liability was brought by

a racist alabama guy who oversaw the police strings of rights era against near times in a bunch of civil rights leaders who can cut both ways so for you as a lifelong journalists? How feel about the prospect of a potential new precedent and could govern near or curtailed press freedom right, So the like that with the premise that is, of course, that these standard setting at nineteen sixty four supreme court trial is famous incredibly high for proving defamation against it. media organization. It's always really set the united states apart and is considered part of press freedoms that it is so so hard to prove defamation by beauty organism cause. You have to prove that they internally in their own minds, do they were line when they did it, which is incredibly hard to prove actual malice standards, actual malice, standard, yeah, exactly and so because that there are very, very few successful. Defamation suits against the media, even when they get it wrong, and that seen as important part of the protections for like

You can get something wrong and it's not gonna blow up your entire news agency. I think that there is, a view among a lotta first many lawyers and may be a lot of journalists that that standard is a little bit out of sync with how much our world has changed in the last sixty five years, and even this, the last five or ten years where extreme polarization is so high. Now any meat environment is so I've kind of wild west because social? It is because you get if all these little networks Agnew's max when american news popping up and these stakes of it are so high because we ve seen can lead to insurrection coups that maybe there is a need to effectively soften those standards a little bed. Now bringing these cases are saying. We want overturn that standard. They're all saying we meet that state. Set nineteen sixty four, but any first him in I will tell you if a good number of these cases, dominion is bringing bunch smart matic. Another voting machine companies bring a bunch of a good name.

These cases succeed because its set by a supreme court preston by law it will move that standard a little bit in practice and me b that is necessary in a Where are you mockery is at an imminent risk from disinformation and is also a case for it on journalism, grounds that like if you are concerned about the future of journalism in this country and faith, journalism as an institution. Maybe you want some harder guard rails to come up in the form of higher threats of liability, because you know I don't like the that people think of the media as a monolith and think of journalism is a monolith, but they do and perception or whether journalism as a concept works and can be trusted, is tied up in Hell, perceived some of the largest actors in the earlier, so you may be want if you care about journalism, people to see there. consequences for deliberately lying, but at the same time

I do have this as that cuts a little bit the other way, where there is this specific. In the scenario that I wouldn't say keeps me up at night, but I do worry about any world where a good number of these cases succeed and that standard for bringing a defamation suit gets a little fuzzier, which is that it would become, I think, a little bit easier for companies with big pockets to try to bully or coerce news agencies into not running or into why. Bring down stories that they don't want to see run. Even if everybody knows the story, it's true because of this thing that big companies will do and they've done it to me. Many times is you go to them with a story that they don't like they will try to x in fact, as much information from you as they possibly can about. What's gonna, be in the story in journalistic your compelled to like at least take that seriously, because you supposed to give them an opportunity to come and to respond to things they will go to your editors and try to get as much

nations. It can about the story, the guerriere bosses bosses and try to get information, and then they will create a paper trail, giving you lots of email, those end and things in writing, saying that thing that you're going to report. That is not true that false. and the thing you learn very quickly as then they trap. You enter the bert Lee, exactly lying greater actual amount, which would be the actual now exactly in london. This is a big problem row your view, you ve russian, the bringing completely frivolous lawsuits against journalists, and, basically you know putting them out of business with fees for attorneys, etc. Right and the fear is if you're, the new york times the wash post and a big company is creed, this paper trail and saying you know: these things. You can report are not true, even if you know they're lying. If you make some

sent mistake a longer way. Right then make can hold the threat over. You ever think in a bank ruptured using rancey over this, when the state has been a lot of talk about this very high standard of actual malice, which, as you know, either the outlet knows, the information they aired was false or did so with quote reckless disregard for the truth. That's the description of this right, but in this case it does seem like dominion might be able to meet that very high standard like we might not even need to move the standards at all. Just because- and you see a lot of first amendment- lawyers- a lot of media lawyers who, like represented media companies in these cases before just saying that, like I mean the sheer amount of texts, emails testimony we ve already seen in the pre trial period, suggests that yeah fox I deliberately know they were wrong, like you, don't even have to go with the reckless disregard for the truth standard, which is just the easier one that I mean. They clearly knew this. And what do we know at this stage about the strengths and

weaknesses of dominions case. So there's not a like email from but murdoch saying we're going to do. The big lie now lie about two million voting systems, but it's it's. Pretty good clause is very close. You have to do like a little bit of connecting. The dots does not like a one million per cent slammed duncan, but basically, what you have is, after the election you have. A bunch of colonel emails and text messages within fox news is we have now because they came on discovery in the course. This lawsuit and we know that this dominion, spirits he fairy that's out there and from selection. Denial generally is false because initially they said we don't want to follow a modern and said we don't want to go there we're talking about how they like sidney power, trumps lawyer was pushing the demeaning conspiracy about how she's, crazy and sheep. Have any evidence, and then you see that their rating start to draw and then they start making it's not actually they say- let's do this demeaning conspiracy after all, to get viewers back, but you see them kind of.

allow themselves to be pulled in to making this choice because they have a couple of anchors who are a little bit rogue. An error and at first the concerned about that and in their single. Actually, this has a lotta ratings and then they're saying well, actually we need to bring our viewers back in I think that it is it's clearly pretty strong, which is why it's going to trial in the first place, whether they can prove you know, each step along the way, adds up to and intentional lie that is responsible for that level of damages is gonna turn a lot, and not just were they lying because of course they were in the judges basically come out and said: I think that they're lying, but whether they can prove that the executives at the company were involved in the lie. Well and that's key, because I've seen that now they want to go with the defense that lou Dobbs and maria barter romo actually believed this, and so

wasn't deliberately spreading misinformation so debate? They really believe this in there just crazy, so we're gonna throw them under the bus, but I think the judge set at one point in the pre trial period like it's not about who said it. It's about the choice to publish an air. These lies rests with the executive right or or rest, or at least it doesn't. They can't push it off on the gas initially they were saying we're just reporting with the as an end in salaries are saying? These are just guess on her show we're not responsible the lies. They turn it would do with judge davies was saying Is that no? You chose to air that and you knew was alive when you chose to it. So that is not that we are responsible for that the question is whether fox will be able to, as you say, to portray Lou Dobbs maria, the roma as rogue actors, and we know now that they actually tried to coerce one of these Assistance on maria bartiromo show into giving false test

the money that we portray partly about as rate jove rate, seems It seems that in and also seems bad for fuck's case that that assistant thing came out, ensued. The network and it does like she was also pretty complicit in that light, coming out social at the most sympathetic figure again, but there is a lot of documentation that the executives were at the very least aware that it was happening unaware that it was false and chose not intervene or pushed it to happen. I want to push you on this. This er question of democracy, pillow devils, have yeah, because you do your love, you will say like, while with the big lie, this is bigger this about a threat to democracy. By, but I think a lot academics and particular argue that press freedom is core to democracy. Right now

in india, for example, ostensibly the world's largest democracy, the leader of the biggest opposition party, the congress party, which is sentenced to two years in prison for defamation of prime minister modi, actually like three dude name modi for reasons I ll set aside. That seems to be the biggest threat to india's democracy using defamation law to throw in opposition leader in jail. What do you make of the argument that this case could do more than more harm than good to our democracy if it in any way curtails per freedom. I think we are balancing through these trials. Are that no one in the tree, I was doing this deliberately We are balancing a really tough set of questions about our democracy, about how we once the absolute hundreds of press freedom that we have right now against the rising thread of deliberate distant from The clearly subsumed fox news, even against the will of its own hosts and executives that they felt compelled to tell these lies a pain you were going to these extremes.

How do you balanced those things? How do you balance the freedom to get things right? long in the media against the clearly rising intention of lies, and they just the fact that in such a rapidly changing political environment where we have so many political actors now who are leading the media rather than the other way round and tried to pull them towards. Election nihilism that has The real gravity in railway with the audience of I mean it's. It's an irony that these big, weighty questions of trade offs are being litigated through question of corporate damages. For for profit company which, like welcome to the united states of america like that's where the priorities are. It's not like, if you tell lies that lead to an insurrection like we're not going to see over that Do you know you loose and profits for a company? That's bad! It's like what are you? What are you define as journalism? But when you know we ve talked about it's a lot on this programme and they like to think of themselves as a media lit. I think there were

time when other journalists would think of them is a media, but there was just conservative. I think that time has passed for most for a lot of people, Yeah, who aren't fox fans, are or bad people. So then, like our EU aid to get away with just one intentionally because you call yourself a medio right, you know, and that's that's that's one of the things to balances yeah and its degrees to it, which I think was fascinating about. The disclosures that we saw of fox news is internal emails and text These is you actually see them wrestling with this question in real time, because they have reported they do have their privacy diminishing part of an over, they do have report, it should do reporting and they had a reporter. Who fact check. I think one of sydney, palace press conferences and was getting just drag internally within the network, because people saw

who saw the executive saw that that was playing into hurting the ratings now, at the same time, this inequality and maybe talker carlson's, that being to fire her like right away, was right, they claim that she was hurting the stock price, which I might actually be true. Oh yeah sure what this ugly and you know you saw that use- are rupert murdoch initially after the election saying we're not going, Go down elect election misinformation, we're not gonna go around down election denial, because I think this is bad for the country and then he changed his mind. So I I don't have any delusions that the people at fox are going to make the right choice because of ethical reasons, but I think there is a question of what are the financial incentives that are going to push them. To do the right thing and may be ultimately the question of what we media in this country looks like will come down to are the financial penalties of lying to the extent that fox in others lied going to exceed the financial penalties of telling the truth, which means that you,

when the loose viewers do, we must show you two channels anyway. What do they get says about fox in the larger rightwing media ecosystem that they felt the need to chase these online conspiracies because there afraid of losing viewers. So it's so fast eddie, because it it it will it didn't. Look like I what I thought I was gonna like I really thought that watching like fox whose arrive at this place in real time and twenty twenty that it was. You know they loved tromp. They wanted keep republicans in power, so they're making a deliberate top down choice. To broadcast these conspiracies, and what we know now is that they did it basically out of fear and they did out of this realization that they had, I mean you can pinpoint it almost exactly to like november twelfth if you look or like november tenth twelfth. If you look at the emails text messages where they initially said we're not gonna do election denial and they thought that that day

She was going to be enough to shape the narrative, because for twenty five years, fox news has been in charge of what the right things and have had an iron grip on. Why What are the narratives? What are the facts? You know who's right whose wrong? What is a good policies, bad policies and you see them realise that that's not true anymore. And then they no longer have the power to set that narrative, because they can tell people that trump lost the election and then the just gonna go someplace else They are realising that they now live in a world where there is always going to be somewhat social media, some crazy network trump himself who will serve the kind of most base, extreme q and on parts of the party, and they made the wrong choice.

in deciding what to do about that. But I think it's a big question about what choice are they going to make going forward, and I mean hopefully facing at least the threat of financial penalties? Will guide them on a better direction? Will enter tommy's questions about through the balance between protecting press freedom and stopping the spread of disinformation. The fact that fox now, Chases, these conspiracies better, mainly developed online. That then get fed to places like oh anne and new smacks, makes that question even more complicated because again. What is a media outlets if it starts in some fortune form and it spreads around, and you too, I would argue that they ve been doing that for a long time me mean what was the birther conspiracy, if not for like an online thing that hopped too since other you so look at me. I think, like this, in the courts are catching up with foxes practice for while here I think the internet was always us where at least for them twenty years hurry along. We ve been doing this. I think the internet was always a source, but the power their power to set the net

live and change it and cut it off that has diminished Why didn't listen? It's flipped I mean like you know. I think that big moment was when they see megyn kelly out to ask trump a bunch of tough questions at a debate. He attacked her in the most vile ways imaginable. They backed her for a couple of days and then eventually showed her the door. You know is when you just said, Megan Kelly, I thought you were gonna talk about. The twenty twond Election night. Remember. Carl road running around where people were less credible, no Bobby didn't win yeah. This is fat whatever and they were you because they forgot that that black people voted in Milwaukee and then megan kelly would open was like no that's wrong here. You know, and so like that the reverse than fox, was able to I re seated half that power saga crazies, but they have they ve long lost that pray. I think you're right, though, that twenty sixteen election was like another big version in this.

in order for its like it's what you see with the republican establish like twenty. Sixteen, they hated trump tried to stop him failed and then we're like I guess we'll just embrace him, no matter where it takes us get furthest parade train. It is rare that of radium. It is clear there are not a lot of tools to fight disinformation right now and The the legal one that we're gonna be witnessing this week in the coming weeks is definitely at a different one that we ve, over the last several years and its not perfect the standards not perfect, but we'll see. I will see what happens it does feel like it. In my mind, it's very of a piece with the trump stormy daniel today the many other indictments where it's like it's I'd ways way into what I think is like the biggest question facing this country. Right now, which is is they're gonna, be

on ability for trying to do a coup and overturned american democracy two years ago. The guy who did it is, you know, of coin philip away from mob figures who has made me a present from jail cell. That's where you there were max fisher thanks forever, this and I know you're gonna be following. The trial for these next next couple weeks, if there is a trial yeah, unless we wake up and there's a settlement, are you guys coming down to wilmington with me? Yes, we'll be there Joseph it's fun to crash in the house, I dunno does amtrak go there from l, a it's gotta it's gotta, be in wilmington on the way to new york right, that's actually, that would be my only point of reference train through countries that thing fly over country Why would you ever give him a second term and we'll have those will have those drains out there dancing to the Elvis now from making fun of delaware running for senate they're? Alright max thinks by and well chicken with you as the trial, continues thanks to max

fischer for joining, and we will talk to you on Thursday love it. You ought to do in the pot. Does I don't pod save america is a crooked media production. The executive producer is Michael Martinez, our senior producer. and a gardener Bernstein, our producers, or hayley muse and olivia martinez, its mixed in edited by andrew chadwick segment and charlotte linda sound, engineered the show, thanks to Hayley keefer, schwartz sandy gerard anti tat injustice. How for production support into our digital team, I count: Phoebe Bradford, my look him in a million monday. Our episodes are up. Is videos at you to dot com. Such pod, save america.