The presenting sponsor pod. Save America is Ziprecruiter. Friends of the pod find a grave, It's the higher can be like well trying to find a needle in a haystack go on back on this one sure you can post. Job to some job board. But then all you can do is hope. The right person comes along. That's why you should try Ziprecruiter Ziprecruiter doesn't depend on canvas finding you at five for you. It needles them for you, dont its powerful, adding technology identifies job seekers who best fit. You needs, then actively invites into apply everyone facebook. How to think I'll poking oh yeah, and receives you proposing to they take away the poking, I hope so those undisguised his bedroom. I hate my liver girder even has speaking to Facebook a complete swedish tool like customizable screening questions in May, it easy to filter, review and re. Your applicants mark Zuckerberg, see suite is called a suite of tools. I'm probably so other companies might deliver a lot of hay

computer finds what you're looking for the needle in the haystack. Just in case you weren't positive, that's what they were going for a lifetime for you right now for free. Complex cricket, and if you go to separated outcome, such wicked today tries to procure for free. We get credit for sending it once again skip the hay goat as ever greater dotcom flesh I welcome the positive miracle, I'm John Fabric, Anja another terminator later. In the part we have Tommy's interview with veterans, advocate and hosted the pie cast Angry Americans, Paul Reich off, but first working to talk about the democratic.

Republican strategy. Out of this week's Publican patron hearings and the latest twisting the twenty twenty campaign, which is Michael Bloomberg, potential entry into the race, also for the first hearing on Wednesday. A few of us here, cricket Medium Slaking live in the old group thread, I wrote that out last night and I was like slacking live group thread. What happened to that thing. Use at work that you hate will be doing that publicly we have funded at during the debates and now we're gonna work. Samir from your favorite cricket media characters doing it for the impeachment hearings on Wednesday. Along with us, you can watch it. You do not come such cricket media and you can also check out our brand new impeachment frequently asked questions and crooked dot com. Slash impeachment you can also subscribe to brine boilers. Podcast called Rubicon Great up, so this great episode this week so You know heads are all the impeachment news. The possibly need right here. Could media Tommy you ve got some exciting news. I do John

You guys made notice. I've been going to Iowa fairly regularly over the last couple months. It's not just cuz. I am obsessed with the place and reliving glory days is because I've been working with Pineapple street media on a limited series about the Iowa caucuses. We want to talk about why the Iowa caucuses are first, rules, work, how you do are there in. Like really, is this a good way to pick a president, so the first episode comes out on the nineteenth or release one per week for four weeks and then a guy come a floating fifth show up some time in January. Think but very excited about. This is incredibly fun to be hanging out in Iowa and not just like with candidates, but with the Youngfield staffers, who are the heart and soul of these campaigns who are just

inspiring people. Whenever politics is depressing, you can talk to these folks and get you know just remember why we all do some hope you enjoy it. I'm so excited to hear this used as you sent us the trailer, which I guess he's going out this week to yes and just listen to the trailer. I got really excited for the bad and condemning the positive Mcafee will be in the pod. Save America feed you dont described anything else. You just have to listen to some We want to use this, that's pretty easy guys. It's pretty easy! Awesome, Lebanon, the show so great gray, Lavater leave it with cow, PAN, Emily Heller and Jason liable from Buzzfeed who walked us through the documents he uncovered when the Mulder Report and how they relate to what's happening in Ukraine, specifically the fact that it may be that Paul manner, for it is the person who told Donald Trump first about the idea of a Ukraine conspiracy, Jason we uphold is one of those reporters who, like you, don't know what he does four months at a time when the car he added million document, really interesting

releasing and out some great ransom count. Callin Emily's rynason, perfect I'll, get to the news. This week the House of Representatives will hold the first public hearings to help the term and whether they will impeach Donald Trump on Wednesday, former acting ambassador to Ukraine Bill Taylor and say depart official George Kent will testify in on Friday, former ambassador to Ukraine, Marie Jovanovic will testify House Intelligence Committee. Chairman, Adam Schiff, will lead the hearings which he set up to allow for forty five minutes of sustained questioning by Schiff Republican Devin Nunes and their staff lawyers, as opposed to the five minute run questioning we're used to in these hearings. Thank God. It's really love the format, change love. What they're doing this season

guys. Why do you think Democrats chose Taylor Kent and you haven't even to go first made thing: it's pretty simple. Taylor specifically are kept. Copious notes has unimpeachable personal credentials and is going to have. Lay out the story. That Democrats want to tell you. I mean, I think that, would you look at the character some unlike bill, Taylor refuses stateroom inefficient. He also serving the US army. Certainly unarmed York. This firm defence is probably a republican and he can speak too. Accurate is clear. Understanding was that these security assistance money that had been given by Congress to Ukraine for their national defence was held up as part of a quid pro quo by the trumpet ministration. So I'm like this is devastating testimony yet, and I think the important thing here, because we're intact with a second Republicans, have signalled that they're gonna there, one of their big arguments is going to be. It's all here, say it's all second or third or fourth end. Well.

Tailors testimony is based on what he heard directly from Gordon Somnolent. Gordon silence revise testimony. Is now in line with Bill Taylor's before it was in conflict with Taylor and after Taylor spoke and testified behind closed doors. Someone then revised system. Only so this whole bullshit, the Taylor, you know, did not talk directly to President Trump is just that, because Gordon Salmon talk directly to President Trump and Gordon son was testimony is in line with built in hears us on Lent explained the tailor quote: Businessman is about to sign a check to someone who owes him something. The businessman asked that person to pay up before signing the Czech. Thank you for that helpful explanation. And now I think I am wrong- I think the these three witnesses and look and from IRAN of it. You know on Friday we're going to

hear about how she was basically pushed out of her post because of conspiracy theories, cooked up by Rudy, Giuliani and folks, at Fox NEWS and- and I think that's going to be like people said they have heard her testify behind closed doors already that her testimony is particularly emotional, because she is this sort of long standing. Artisan Bureaucrat Republic GINO's serve the country well, under both democratic and republican administrations pushed out of her job because she refused to go along with an extortion, scam also just worth noting that one of the thirty five thousand men out spin explanations, the trumpet Ministration trying that he just care so much about corruption. So he held up this money She will be able to talk about the fact that what Trump and Rudy Giuliani and Gordon Silent we're doing Ukraine was actually incredibly harmful to any efforts to root out corruption in Ukraine. I don't think it's like the key thing. Influence voters in the US, but it just you know these bulshit arguing

Stand up. We knock down one by one and she will do that powerful you're. Any George can't will do that area. Is the ethical carbon Armand, obviously silly on its face. A simple question could ask, is, what's another example Donald Trump has ever shown any interest in stopping only one example. One example yeah, meaning bunch of other isolation from any other thing too, as we like, you know. First, they had this hearsay argument right because oh Bill Taylor, never spoke directly with trumpet. Of course, now we have sound than revising his testimony and basically completely reversing himself, and he was in direct contact with trumpet, so it s their left. With this position, Donna Gordon someone, as some kind of mastermind pulling all the strings behind the scenes. But, of course that doesn't work because he's getting his guidance from Rudy and where is Rudy getting his guidance from one thing but really Ani is he is very into defending Donald Trump. He is also his his cat whiskers there

sensitive, their catching doors on either side of him and the second he feels any hint he feels like he is being hung dry. He is on more Ingram with a fucking. Add, owing Rowan through crazy criminal tax every time you well it as it is a matter what regional any decides to do, because in the call summary weave, we all see the Donald Trump said specific, We do us a favour, blah blah blah ass for the favours and then said contact my love, Here too, we are developing at all. It is just the ever cigarette some distance between Trump and router amazing. I also think that maybe use Lindsey Gram who started floating the Gordons Sunland is a secret democratic plant argument Cahoots. Yes, oh Healy, Adam said to call them Sunderland. Multiple DS, Gordon Sunderland, more Sunland, Gay Donald Trump and operation, a million dollars as part of a long play for the Democratic Party. To do this whole scheme will you we should experience

twenty gram of saying is so Gordon Sondland issued his testimony. That was good for Trump. Then Gordon Sondland starts to become quite fearful that he has perjured himself in a way that could lead to a referral to the Justice Department, and so he revised his testimony. What Lindsey, Graham Is- I would, I would call insinuating, except she's, basically saying it out loud. Is that the only reason, Gordon someone must have done that as he was working with the Democrats to come up with a damning test money to kind of get out of such a referral and, of course, is no evidence for that is not like Lindsey Gram wakes up every morning, just trying to get to the end of the Deaf ocean so a democratic leadership aid told CNN quote the first hour rabbit. Hearing in the first hearing has got to be a blockbuster. Do you guys agree with that can we try something new here Democrats, let us try something called lowering expectations you're, not pitching a fucking Jason state them movie right leg. You will, let's hear

you're too things. We should do the facts. We already know our blockbuster. Let's get them repeat on tv by credible people as a way of helping inform the rest. The country to the standard for impeachment is not a criminal act, So, let's not get sucked down that rabbit hole and make it clear that an abuse of power- or you know, helping to rigged. The next election is actually unimpeachable offence. Those are the two big picture priorities I would love to see which have a full list after that that exists in a very funny. It very much seem like like that. Like did a line of cocoa in Pitch knight rider and eighty is a very big, very much like a man. It's gonna touch. Your fuckin saw right first boom, you got Bill Taylor, but then don't worry, we're coming for you, heartstrings ya know and then, once that's the big finish them cans, gonna, come and ways of a third act for his prize that George cancer to save the cat. It's unbelievable, but anyway, don't hide your borders.

This is all just like that's good advice, just stop talking or borders. I just enjoy very silly, but It would also like I mean reason. Those blood buzzer thing matters, unfortunately, is a unit. The primary goal of these impeachment hearings is to communicate the gravity of trumps abuse of power and the overwhelming Evan. Directly to the american people, of course, but we also know that probably most people won't be watching. These They will understand what is happening. These hearings through the filter of the media and I think last couple days. I started getting a little more anxious than usual that the media is going to fuck this one up: for a few reasons in the block us thinks beast. What one is there is this need for what is new right? What is new from these hearings, like the smoking gun

and a couple weeks ago now right, we already know from when they, when all these witnesses first has defied behind closed doors. First, there were leaks. That was like the big, the bomb shells and explosive leagues ask us up. Then we all saw the depositions. Last week there were less newsy last week, so they weren't as big a deal and now question is: if the expectation is that these are only successful if a bunch of witnesses sort of talk about a whole bunch of new information, then not going to be successful terms I can run in so you can handle the code red you can handle the majority of the right of like it's ridiculous, I'm alive thing to be worried about. I do think that ship has been smart. Elation of a kind of three broad principles for what there yeah so was really smart. These basically three questions. Are they gonna be asking any told her publicans, I'm not gonna, except witnesses that don't abide by these three questions that have to do with anything. One is did Trump request investigation of his political arrival from a foreign government too, as did he uses powers to pressure a foreign government to do this and three, as did he tried to cover it up,

right, so it's very simple, like you know, ditties illicit foreign interference. Did he tried to turn to two pressure people to do it and they try to cover a very simple but very important, and I think, setting those is, as the kind of framing questions will allow us to see the Taylor testimony and the other testimony that follow, as did they did. They meet that threshold on answering those questions and I think he's set it up so that the answer will be yes, I would like to think that one. I want them to make this story as simple as possible. It was like a wrapped around the actual. By what a quid pro quo is legalities, speak english top people why this matters to just don't get sucked into any GNP theatrical like Matt Gates might like painters. Chest Didn't like shotgun a beer just ignore him three. I think They're. Circling republicans are circling around an argument that says one. The whistleblower is part of the deep state and being heading into all. This information is hearsay. We can't prove intent play. We don't know what Donald Trump really thought I'd like to hear then preamp. That argument

downplaying the testimony we have but saying. Ok, if you asked what presence intent Mick Mulvaney we're both in or MIKE Pompeo available cuz. They clearly have spoken Donald Trump about this, some of them on this phone call to let's hear from them Are you hiding them? I think of the cover up here is evidence of a crime to the american and then last thing like to your point out about the media filter theyve Democrats need a digital messaging plan the Trump WAR Room and trumps Twitter feed me blasting every good clip for them than ever happens. We need to be fighting that battle and not just going through the CNN Pandit clad. Yes, because guaranteed Republicans are going to succeed on this front when Jim Jordan goes out there and start screaming about whatever, and you know like accuses Bill Taylor Maybe you were the one who interfered in the twenty sixteen election and you know report that as well, the Republicans did get a fee. Who hits in because they they caught building.

They're off guard by mentioning some crazy fucking conspiracy theory that he'd never heard of until now. Re like that kind of stuff will happen, and so I think you're right that, like Democrats need and messaging machine here and need to be on office, because if we cannot count on legacy media to do the do what we need to do something to like they're going to try to do the because thing that we can kind of expect and then I also think a significant way in which they will try to create moments that undermine the the premise of these hearings, as we will see a lot of so you can for certain. We're here we're, gathered here. They got the press corps in the back. You guys, all you ve, never Donald Trump and you're gonna have us believe we should impede their president. Having you never even spoke into the man, they want a big Brett, Cavanaugh Linsey, Graham Temper TAT. I said it. They said that they would be the brick having to hear these are casting for they casting for their like Devon. Nunez isn't right for the part we need Jim Jordan, Jim Jordan, imagine bringing in

Jim Jordan this week, when another person came forward to say that he did not disclose information, but sexual abuse on the US. You wrestling team- oh my God, writer unbelievable. They just don't know what you're. I did like in that same access story that bum somewhere involved in the preparation said, the chief has been telling all the members of the committee to be serious as fuck, that's at which I think is great, like I think, there's gonna be all these antics. Republicans, urban, the circus and Democrats not getting caught up in their circus, not arguing back and forth of them just being very calm, and the other thing you said, Tommy Thy completely agree with and really hope that shift does in his opening statement is we now know the arguments that the Republicans are going to make because they telegraph them to everyone, but them in the opening statement you nowhere, but somebody like, I think that is such a smart thing to do. You're going to hear,

this and we lawyers do this right. We are going to hear this argument. You're gonna hear this argument. You can hear this argument. This is why all of these are wrong. Citing that super important in CALL Nellie or early to very many that thing that they wanted to and Andrea Telepath rare. That's. She was on the white list there. She could do something random, random, Dnc, staffer that there and we were laughing about in the right wing world. They think actually she's like it. If the ashes of the cause of all the interference in the twin sixty election delicate up, what or don't actually done. One last thing: undemocratic strategy to potentially devastating witnesses, who will not be testifying, as of now are former national Security adviser John Bolton, and why has chief of Staff Mc Mulvaney who are waiting for a court to rule whether they should obey?

peanut from Congress or an order from the White House to defy the subpoena from Congress, because it could take weeks or even months for that ruling Democrats have decided to forge ahead without these witnesses. Fingers are the right strategy. I don't really, I feel strongly about on alternative path here, like I agree with pursuing the subpoenas through the courts. I united. We talked about this a lot. The fact that there is inherent power there. Constitution to for Congress to not only issue subpoenas but enforce the subpoenas. I believe in that power I'm also very skeptical, that it would be politically advantageous for Democrats to use it. Lived in a world where, a few years ago there was a kind of hypothetical conversation amongst Democrats and Republicans in there is a consensus built to pledge to reestablish congressional paragraphs and there was a bill pass. That said, these are the steps by which you can enforcing rational subpoena, but those rules don't exist, which means any attempt to enforce them. Right now will be seen as partisan, and so I dont see a better path,

I don't know a better path either, but it really bothers me that they might not testify because we saw this with Mahler Affected. Donald Trump could to written questions and was never press on obstruction really helps their case I mean that the cover up is ongoing as far as I'm concerned, and I think you you're seeing someone like Lindsey Gram again shameless lying idiot say that the trumpets with two incoherent to have been some sort of quid pro quo: extortion, racket right. They said the same shit about Donald Trump Junior during the campaign that he was too soon. Bid and didn't understand, camping finance laws and thus couldn't have broken them in its absurdity face in so again or hearing you guys talk about is Donald Trump Intent, and now I think that that's a dangerous road, for us to go down generally because we're talking in terms of a criminal statute already, and that's not the bar, that's not the threshold. You need to make an impeachment agree. It's high crimes and misdemeanors does not require to be.

Crime. But then we are for closing our chance to interview people like more vainly in pale and Bolton who understand the president's mindset cause they pray We had conversations at him, so that's all there is now a lot. This is this is where I'm conflicted, because so Do you want out of John Bolton and move any well for minimal, vainly he's the guy, because he is acting chief of staff and still the director of the Office of management, but it he's the guy that ordered the. He's on the aid right and everyone else in the government, the State Department, D, Department. None of them wanted a freeze on the aid. So clearly it came from You came from Donald Trump and oh and be and so MID Mulvaney, able to talk about, and so would his AIDS at OMB. Why the it was frozen when it was frozen. What Donald Trump said all that bullshit John Bolton has said in the letter last week. He knows about quote many relevant meetings and conversations or John Bolton clearly under that on board, and I have a game. That's what I was going to raise do that, so that Bolton has been very hard to pin down through all this, but as a gesture,

thing for his lawyer to hint at the other piece of it with Bolton too, is based on new supports. He was afraid of trumped getting on the phone with Zalewski cause. He thought the call would be a disaster. And then it was. Why did you think the quality it is asked her well. So my point is, though, like what you saying Tommy: if we wait for the court to rule, then the sort of media narrative comes a little bit more about intent, the Democrats need these witnesses because they feel like they need to prove Donald, Trump's intent and then, if the court rules that they don't have to testify, suddenly it so Democrats didn't witnesses they needs. I worry about that. On the other hand, you write like them. Testifying would be extremely debt devastating, but I think I dont think we need them to prove the Donald Trump Clear knew what the fuck he was doing clear.

We was targeting his political opponents settled, be so call Rudy in the transcript roaming. That should be our we need. That's had like I just I dont think John Bolton is ready to go down with the ship and I think make mobility is an arrogant ass whose is terrible is Trump and one doubtfully do whatever it takes to or his own ass, and I really would love to see that we also my good news reports anyway. Luggage jumble might decide that has only just five, but he just wants. Do you know Satan is, but I also to select what we ought worthier I'll turn it is here. It's it's you know it in its waiting or at sending out fuck and steady horror with a pair hang ups and like I don't like Movin, I don't even know if that had. He was her privilege over more vainly when he went and did like a forty minute press conference on the other, the podium. About all the relevant facts when he admitted to a quid pro quo, which is apparently why Bolton's people are passed them of any joined the lawsuit because they're like they think that Bolton has a legitimate reason not testify, which is a national security. Aden had

which conversations with with Donald Trump, which is also why I think it's hard to do the inherent contempt there too. So there news from the New York Times over the weekend about another Ukraine. Drug deal, co conspirator, the Julian his indicted client live partners. The co founder of fraud guarantee is preparing to tell impeachment investigators that at rubies direction he met with Ukraine President's olenska top aid last May in Kiev to tell him that unless they announced investigation into Joe Biden, MIKE Pence wouldn't be attending Linsky integration in the? U S would freeze military aid, they didn't announce investigation Pence didn't go to the integration and the military aid was frozen. Julia Honey and Parnassus fraud guarantee partner, Igor Fruman, was also at the meeting deny that this happened. How much does this matter? In Should Democrats wait for Parnis to testify Tell me this. I do not believe Donald Trump will enjoy his impeachment proceedings. Being on top

but I will say the one day that will be his favorite is the day that might Panthers implicated up. I will be the day he enjoys it. The most as just so starting as their ever been a more open and shut, it sort of notice a frog. Knowing what are we doing here? I wrong. Talk about who should test of others like fourteen star witnesses year there were in a year from also this is an aside, Prime minister aired one is coming to the White House on Wednesday for meeting right after as ethnic cleansing got over with an trump is going to hold a press conference with him, though, what the fuck it's your ear right, that its aim is, we are prepared for the same like it's such an open, shut case, and the story of this impeachment is a story about Donald Trump and the Republican Party in what the Republican Party is willing to tolerate it.

Not about anything else. It's not about whether Democrats are successful in holding the right hearings are getting this out of the evidence is all there and, if Republicans, all of them decide to protect Donald Trump and say that it's okay for foreign governments to interfere in our elections. From now on, then That's what the american people should know and go vote yet, as it has that's all. This is about its. How much evidence fuel is required to get fire from the Dwindling little bit of spark left in the tiny bits of shame inside of the republican coalition like how how many fucking barrels of tea nitroglycerin and gasoline. Do you need to get to get an a I'm billows to get fired but from these people it is useful. It is useful to see. Finally, even though we've known for a long time for most of them who all these Republicans are right. Beside keeping back too? You know forums, answer and one of the town halls when she came up for impeachment and she's like

Don't you know, I don't know that we're going to get him out of office, but these people should be on the record. Every single person who's been elected to office should be on the record and that's it like Lauren office like glad we all know what Nicky Haley's all about after this we Nicky Nikki Haley, the dance is trying to do worse he's trying to be on Donald Trump side by attacking the people that came to her and said we think he's dangerously unfit for office. Her response to that was scribbled on some notes for my book, cuz that'll play well in the mainstream media and it'll play well with Trump, because I want him to like me. Cuz I'm going to run for president. Give me a fucking break. It's pretty hey, hey, making Healy so awfully we get what you're doing unit you're, not hiding it. Well, I also let us Eddie, I'm not your, not hiding it as well, as you think you are, the the you can't punter someone for an attempted crime is mine is truly the psycho Bob defence. You know you don't get

You don't get a Nobel Prize here attacking chemistry, killing Nicky Hayley, please it makes you thought that people said that she was a serious person and she's using the the its they attempted crimes. Once and I tried out. The impeachment has the death penalty. Yes, you did. It's it's been verified honestly. The death penalties that yet we still have that the death penalty the death penalty and actually also in the constitution. Under three, though, it also is very revealing your relationship to power and what you think about power that you think that losing it is, it add ethanol, very revealing about how Nicky Healy sees the world very revealing. Pot of MECCA has brought you buy, tonal question for the room, which is really just you. What is your biggest pet peeve about the gym probably the people there to day this week. I to work out an extra love. That's not!

I've missed you for this shipment DC. Those one of those try hard gyms or people be like doing pull ups and some beam in the ceiling or like standing up from falling down on the floor and then standing up with like a barbell over their head and hate that no one wants that annoying. I don't do that anymore. I don't see any of those people. Total of the smart at home, gym that replaces every machine in the weight room and has personal training programs built in so you'll never have to go to the gym again in the best part tunnel has a sleek design and looks like a tv on your wall. There are no bulky waits around and unlike other products through just cardio with tonal, you get a full body but with real weight at two hundred pounds of resistance and got very cool. The lottery like change, systems, while the weights, in your hand, by like pressing a button and how they did not go either tunnel coaches can offer you in Russian for a variety of work out. Styles, full body muscle, building, work out, multi weak weight loss programme. Upper body, lower body and even glute specific workouts Tommy just hit.

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You know the normal foreign policy of a president whose passionately opposed to corruption and whose and telling people to call his personal lawyer right. Even even these, we passionately opposed to corruption, even if that corruption happens, to involve one of his potential opponents and twenty twenty that was the new one over the and that some of them, John Kennedy, the centre families in the Sunday shows well there's a difference like yet he cares about corruption, and it would be bad if he targeted corruption, because it was his political opponents. But what? If the corruption just involve someone who happens to be his political opponents, but that's the so it's it, but it is It is like it is. You know you see what they're doing what they're basically saying is. You will be unable, through the record, be able to prove the opposite right. You will, hard to show that Donald Trump was going after Barismo because he cared about corruption versus he was going after corruption because he

I presume that their theory that it's hard to make that distinction from the record of trumps conduct, and that is just very silly, because it is very easy to be easy to show that he targeted bad company. Pier because of Joe Biden and one reason it's easy is here, Rudy Giuliani have been telling us that he wants to add buttons for months for months anyway, that in their publicans ass to call witnesses like Hunter Biden, a bunch of characters that star and right wing, conspiracy theories about who really interfered and twenty sixteen and the whistle blower himself, all of which were quickly rejected by Adam Shift, which he has the power to do guys. What else does that list of witnesses? Tell you about the republican strategy for these hearings. What was your reaction?

the witness list and I think they're following you know the kind of Shoe Hewett guidance, which is if this is about a specific set of criminal act, acts around Ukraine. It looks very, very bad if we can turn this into a circus, about Ukraine, twenty sixteen Russia, mauler D and see Kelly or whatever you want. If we can get them call me the page yeah. Into the pot. Their standard is basically that the only people who can speak honest, about anything, are right wing Republicans and support on that isn't rendered Zol end, so Donald Trump lit the hard thing for Republicans is trump. He will only accept you as on his team. If, if you say the call was perfect, he did nothing wrong. Like that's a standard, he wants report,

I asked for that last night again on twitter. The Republicans generally, I think, are going to do what they ve been doing forever, which is try to figure out all the partisan leanings of the whistle blower. Anyone else involved an attack, their character, call them partisan, find some bullshit thing. To just hang their defense on and go from there. Generally, even the most reason. Why republicans like the will herds of the world toward like generally reasonable people, are just going to attack the process and somehow partisan, even though impeachment is a partisan exercise? Adjust is the political Germany. If you criticize Donald Trump you're, not on Donald Trump's team, you're, not on Donald Trump team. Your criticism can be taken seriously said ass though he may and that's the gain their playing at the at the end of the day. Here with the like, counting the votes right, it's like its keeping it about just in a much right

So no one counts just at a marsh joining the Democrats as by partisan, because he was perched from the Republican Party and he's Persia their broken party because he set you criticise, he dared to criticise Donald Trump. So if you dare to criticise, annulled trump you're, never Trumpery, thus you're not taken recently, the only people taking seriously the people that are a hundred percent on team tromp. Now you even Donald Trump said last night, Twitter, again Republicans dont be led into the fools trap of saying it was not perfect the call, but it is not Jabez. I know it is much stronger than that. Nothing was done wrong so heap into his. We don't from saying I will warrant no credit. Some of me or you will be on the never Trump Democrat media site. I will brook no dissent, it doesn't what it is. You know it is his. It is the only lesson that he has absorbed from his time in politics and public life, which is, if you show any weakness, if you admit you any faults, suddenly you're you're susceptible to political gravity,

you know, look he's been he's been like this from the beginning has been the road runner running across the ravine, and his message, Republicans over and over again, is, if you don't look down, will make it to the other side. This he looked down, will all fall and I dont know how wrong yes. Now it's gonna miss far that I think the most telling piece of advice. I've seen it Mitch Mcconnell is telling his members reportedly grandes. Washing posts he's. A saint calibre. Your comments to fit you're on politics, like just wait, say as little as possible Kevin, Mccarthy is saying lean and full defense get his back broke. I just asked you guys whose political judgment would you trust, Mitch, Mcconnell or Kevin Mccall? yeah. No, I mean it's right like midge movements were close, is getting competitive advantage here, as we say all the time here on pod save America toys. R Us Mcdonough tire boats to the Mitch Mcconnell cruise line

I don't have both metaphors? I like it. I didn't there's something interesting in both sides, Democrats and Donald Trump saying over and over again read the transcript, because I do think it's telling of where Trump and Republicans are trying to go to write, which is there is not just you know. These allegations are true. They made them out. The process is bad. It's the the evidence that is publicly available that they cannot refute. They are basically saying just believe it's bad, it's just not bad what you're doing right, and so I do think one of the things that would help Democrats in these hearings- and I think we have to carry this case is- is explain why this is an impeachable offense of

why? It is because you know- and, as I heard as recline on his part, casting about some pull, they did where, like a far too high percentage of people said that President's targeting political rivals is the usual course. Noise right- and we see this in our polling day- says that it places like people. Think government is crap. People think politicians are corrupt on both sides right. They think we can argue that it's not true. We believed such who we know it's true, but this is what people believe in so that the the hurdle, not for the republican base, their fucking gone right. They're, not their minds are not going to change by this, but for independence and swing voters and everyone else is. Why was this so unusual, and why does it rise to the level of an impeachable offense? What is the dangers of the president of states being able to bully a foreign

men into interfering in the election and then every obvious but love it. I think that's why you remind people that, even if it is so important as it is back to the transcript, when I do think it worth on putting a little bit the difference between what it means when Democrats agar the transcript trump means, we Democrats mean, as the evidence is ass plain ass plain could be. The proof is here. We all know it the Republicans now at the meeting, those it. We all know it. When trumps has read the transcript, it's a bluff. He is saying: read the transcript to people who won't righty saying. Basically, I know that there are two kinds of people. There is my backers who will be the transcripts and in light of the audience and their people that take read the transcript as evidence that in the actual materials. There's a scope, a tory facts. There is proof that he really didn't do anything that it's all a big hoax and I will go to shout Henry and I will go to others. They will explain to me what's going on here and they will surely say the same that the people I trust you look at the transcripts- will give it to me straight, and they will tell me that Donald Trump did nothing wrong that that that's it is one is one, is trying to get people to understand the truth and the other

is relying on a meal echo chamber, a propaganda apparatus to lie to people who do not have the time or wherewithal three hundred two pages, a transcript, which is the vast majority of people I mean, but it does. It does go back to you know, Donald Trump belief here. Would you keep saying that one of the reasons transcript wasn't problematic form is that Joe Biden Hunter by an engaging some sort of corrupt activity in Ukraine, and I do think these three witnesses, as we will be helpful in improving that again, we said this: a million times Joe Biden was carrying out the foreign policy of the United States. The foreign policy of the European Union and basically the entire world, by with a bipartisan foreign policy, has dates. Republicans one of those two in and asking Ukraine to fire this prosecutor, who everyone in the world believe was corrupt, except for the prosecutor in that prosecutor again Joe Biden was increasing the chances that the new prosecutor would investigate his sons, company,

Democrats are battling the Republican Party or battling cynicism generally that we think all politicians are scum and battling the right wing, Fox NEWS, Rupert Murdoch, media and structure Ben Rosen. I talked to former australian Prime Minister Kevin Rudd this for a potted world this week and he was talking about how politics in the? U S! The UK and Australia are some of the most fucked up these days, and wouldn't you know it Murdock has. Huge media footprint and all of those places, now I know and again in our pulling showed this weekend, but this last week no one should expect any Republicans to change their mind over the course of these hearings. Right, like we, and not only that we should expect that Donald Trump's base will probably rally around him even more than they were before I mean we saw it and are pulling like it is. What is impeachment is doing more than anything else is making the environment even more polarizing? It already has been. You got like ninety four percent of Democrats and her credit gleaming independence.

Who are for it and ninety four percent of Republicans republican leaning independence against it. That's where we are- and I don't expect that to change all that much all right just when we all thought the field of democratic candidates was finally went away, weather on Thursday, the former New York City, mayor, Michael Bloomberg, might enter the primary after I already declared in March that he wouldn't run Bloomberg is worth over fifty. Billion dollars would sell fund his campaign in skip the first for primary states of new Hampshire, Nevada and South Carolina to focus on the super Tuesday states in early March let's start with this, why do we think the Bloomberg change his mind? So I was really thinking about that. I was thinking about what what has changed. What is he noticing in this field? That would lead him to reach a different conclusion than the other wise reach me to start by saying that, like he's, not Howard Schultz,

in the democratic primary right. So he's making a decision to say, I'm gonna try to fight for my ideas within the coalition that will determine who faces all trump and ineffective promise, not to run as an independent third party and its own good for him good for him but I was honestly struggling to understand how he could see that there is an opening. I find it. I find it really confusing if he thinks he can win, I find it less confusing and we think that there is an important point of view that needs to be represented, because I was looking at sea with what what's missing here and I think that was made some of the debates very frustrating and I think what it is that we see a lot of people talking at cross purposes. I think we see like a lot of very Pacific debate serving as kind of watch words for ideology without having a larger ideological conversation, and we end up with candidates talking past each other. So Elizabeth Warren and Bernie Sanders defend Medicare for all the bold and brave and morally courageous and right thing to do, and then that is attacked as being as costing too much for Biden has that kind of goes to refrain as a bit password

of about how it storing unabashed care and not naturally, honest either and that they give a whole bunch of other candidates who have been, I think, for variety of reasons, afraid to articulate and ideological alternatives will argue against Elizabeth Warrant. They will argue against Bernie Sanders, but they understand that there is a political price there not willing to pay to actually come out and say: whatever they believe, whether it's at Medicare for all is unachievable or too far to the left, whether it's the fact that you know God decriminalizing the border is the right thing to do whatever the position is. We seen a real fear on the part of other Democrats to articulate a center left consensus building approached, and you know it has tried to do something like that without actually articulating an ideological vision of commerce been afraid to do that. Quite Booker's been afraid to you at the only one who has, I think, articulated a version of what Bloomberg would argue

or is aiming closure and she's at two or three percent nationally and for five percent in ILO were either way. The gentlemen I mean, I think that there's a lot of folks who are counting on Biden to be their representative, a more moderate place primary and I think, there's a lot of people who see Elizabeth Warren's rise as troubling lot of reasons you can argue may be if you're billionaire, that your word while tax, you could just argue that it's it's it's coming from better place, which is he's working. And when I don't really know my gut action to anyone. Jumping the race at this late stage to feel a little bit frustrated. I think we have some great care It's semester, real weaknesses, but, like you know, I wish everyone, earlier. I also think that I'm a little frustrated that

Steyer and bloomberg- can only do this because they have so much money and I think that's sort of a terrible story about our politics and the party. But you know like look. We shall wait and see if he actually gets in some recent polling suggests that it will be very difficult for him. Bloomberg is also floating a strategy of skipping the fort release date switch. I guess means just like shitloads of ads to get you delegates on Super Tuesday, which seems difficult. I also think there's no way he's getting in the November debate to get ended baby needs to thousands donors and a bunch of four percent in four poles or more and that all like two and an early stage of six percent, which is challenging but like look stepping back, might Bloomberg, has put a tunnel.

Money in sport ads for the party he's been good on climate change has been, cannot guns, so I'm not gonna jump on him yet, but, like I am curious to see where this Gus Yellow Amene said this before the emotion that is driving this entire election on the democratic side is fear, fear the Donald Trump is gonna win and Michael embers and another other people, and in me, no my plan burg being very wealthy and running a very large operation. There does a lot of polling and is worried that Joe Biden is not going to be able to win, partly because and not because of his stances, but because you know, we've all semen debates not be so strong and so lizard with Warren, because we have over recent weeks, really talked our

close all into believing that Medicare for all is like the be all and end all and it's you know going to be poison in the general election which, as we talked about their pulling, the does show that it can be a challenge, but I think it's overstated what a challenge it is. But again, that's that's one was concerned and I think you think's Bernie Sanders than that crew. Obviously as well. He's also just very fiscally conservative in doesn't want either of those people to win right, and I think you know judges. The rising in the polls also might have some. You know that they look at that and they say, while he was never experienced and he's having trouble with photos of color I don't know that might Bloomberg has an easier time with our of Coquetry there. So those are the reasons right so like it's weird, on one hand I sort of get people looking at the field and having some measure of anxiety about winning. We all but let's be honest right like even though even if we have candy to we believe can win. We still have anybody, so I get that answer. Anxiety for all these people is like I'm going to jump in. You know that part. I don't get as much. It's like

You think I get your anxiety why're you, the answer. Will you know it's interesting now. Look I'm just trying to find a way to make sense of it, and I do think that Biden has been to inarticulate to defend a kind of centre left consensus, building, practical kind of governing and mayor Peat has been to articulate to do it because he understands that. The that that's just not where the mindset of voters is right now, even as he's trying to strike a balance between kind of talking about pragmatism, talking about unity without seeming like a wet blanket raining on the kind of bold progressive vision and what that means is, and then I think, a bunch of other. Its are afraid to have an ideology at all and could have been all over the place, and so I do think that no one has been on that same just saying, just sort of being unabashedly, moderate or a few of them, or maybe you ve- had them come and go

caught, came and went to lady came and went into a good job of it, so I can understand someone who believes in that world view not seeing it faithfully represented. That said, what is the harmony representative and maybe being rejected. I don't really know what is the value of it? I don't really know, but I guess like that to me. Thirty thousand foot view is, I think what someone like Bloomberg would see. It's missing someone smartly articulating his world I think Bloomberg Prize a better claim or better answer to the question. Why you then some of the others red he ran the biggest city in the country, gets a little harder for a star, or some of you. I do think I may just we ve done this with all the other candidate, so strengths and weaknesses. You know on the strengths side, for Bloomberg, money, Is it cost quite a bit of money and also it would be like he against Donald Trump? There be unlimited.

That he could have a ready made teen in eradicating name. I d, you know P is people know him he's a record as a politician who was elected three times and a business man he's done quite a bit of work, liking, Democrats, fighting climate change, strength, basque and control. Weaknesses he. Seventy seven right doesn't really solve any kind of aid problem. Billionaire years, though, that's Normie sixty two he's had some extra. Only controversial and I was a bad policies as mare likes, Dobbin Frisk, which was ruled unconstitutional because it was targeting people of color he's had some pretty problematic statements about women in the meat to movement. He is fiscally conservative and look. There's been a lot of attention on how it is like the wealth tax, but he's fiscally conservative like when building blocks proposed on income tax or charge on people making over five per thousand dollars a year in New York, and that was the worst idea. He'd ever heard of right, like he's not just like some of the

Democrats really going to repeal the Trump tax cuts and raise taxes. I just want to go as far as well text, like he's he's fiscally conservative and I do wonder what the constituency is Democratic Party or the country for someone who on one hand, as a policy like I'm going to take away. Your soda on the other hand, but I dont want to raise taxes, rich people like many myths, constituents. We know the right rights or of socially liberal fiscally conservative people are very popular on the kind of morning Joseph on the right on the kind of elite media conference circuit. They are less extant in the rest of the country. I think like Bloomberg, ass to bed. I think that if, if Bloomberg Enters- and through this, primarily than he will have succeeded in making electricity case for himself more than you will have had a conversation with any these other policy areas, Medicare for all or anything else. I think that would be my bad if I were him yeah and it does like you said Tom, it does

just bums me out in general about our campaign finance system that you know there's plenty of other moderate candidates out there and your Michael Bennett's, your Steve, Bullock's and If they had fifty billion dollars, maybe they probably get more. Attention is not like the poor moderates, but just like the fact that, both in terms of pre progressive ripely, the fact that Tom's Dire and Michael Bloomberg or in this race in getting attention purely because they were successful in life which great for them for being successful. But it's me that success than buys you political power, rail agenda, this new knowledge is bums. You, Tom, sire, is able to be a part of the debates because he ran, I think, fifty five zero million dollars worth of that yeah yeah. It's just like that's an he in it. We boost it himself in the polls will, but it did- and I will say that it also it's it's. Both style and blue bird have another problem which has yeah they kind of got in there. They can use their finances to get

to the debates, but then, of course, once they're on that debate stage, they will find that their position is very well represented. Tom Steyer sounds a lot like with Warren Initiative is cases you want Elizabeth warrants policies, but coming from the mouth of other of a male billionaire, come out and say it, but of course you won't just kind of articulate a similar vision. My Limburg, oceans are well represented, I think, by Amy Klobuchar and Nn, several others who have not been able to make it onto the debates h. Why it's a bit frustrating that he wouldn't view. This is an opportunity to help boost one of the people. That shares his worldview is about as opposed to thinking he has to solve it himself. It will unite all the other candidates around attack We literally already had a New York mayor in this race and now he's gone Billinger are to have a New York there when they vote Please go to the interview today is veterans Day, and I just a personal privilege here. I would just want to recommend that everyone read an amazing New York magazine piece by someone needs to work within Terry Soup, Latin darken, the endless recovery from the endless war, its Corey Rams work.

You probably remember from the state of speech when Obama lifted up his story and there's a two minute ovation, there's an incredible piece about: there's: no Hollywood recovery from a traumatic brain injury. It is a decade of of struggling in challenge, and it's an incredibly well done pointed piece and Terry's. A great person and Quay Rensburg is an american hero and everyone should read it. Yes, second thought for sure Why should third it furnace area be not thirty it. I don't at my view, caught counterpoint when we come back, we'll have Tommy's interview with Paul recall. Parliament Roger by square space, you're cool idea into a new website, J J T freeform, the middle with some of their website ideas, he's like yeah in the slam, poetry of ad reads: okay, fine

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today I am excited now to be joined by the host of the angry Americans podcast- he is a U army, veteran veterans Advocate and founder of the Iraq and Afghanistan veterans of America, Paul right off, I don't buy, I'm good man, I'm good man. Thank you for having him I'm in a bunker. Find Penn station that used to be Jeff, Buckley's writing studio. This is where you guys hook me up. So we can avoid Trump's invasion of New York. That's happening right now, so maybe the fitting place to do this interview. Indeed, Indeed it is so, let's, let's start with the reason trumped is visiting Europe today, so today's veterans Day so ball you use, served in Iraq. You started on non profit that was designed to improve the lives of veterans and their families. You have you have left that not private now, but it's been a powerful organization for our needs. Eighteen years. What is this day mean to you and then, in your view, like? What's the best way

to actually honour America's veterans in their service. Well I appreciate you have me I'm and you, and I, I think, cross paths and number of times when you work, and you know it in the Obama administration cuz we working on stuff, like the GI bill, feeling, don't ask don't town a lot of work. That was really historic and important, and I think that the through in their Tommy. Is that it was, it was non partisan in a veteran were generally a non partisan issue. We could drive forward and veterans Day is supposed to be non partisan it supposed to be the day we put our politics decide that we're all united we come together in the sense of cohesion and community. Represents a rare time on the american political calendar, already kind of puts their guns away. We all get together and support and on our veterans today, typical Trump fashion- that's gone because he decided to show up for this parade in a very political way,

in my view, in politicizes, an event that is usually immune to it, so I've decided to boycott the parade up and go to the parade ever since I got home from a rocking in two thousand and four because I know political ized freak. Lee politicizing the military and our veterans. Ever since, before he got elected But this is really the apex of it and a just reeks of Power Jackson and I'm not going to have it so I'm not going to be there. I know you folks will be many folks aren't and I think that he wasn't there today, it wouldn't be an issue would be about us. So many other things in this administration. It's about him. So Trump will benefit veteran suffer and the unity of Amerika will suffer very much like most other shit for the last three years since he's been president. So this my way, I understand, but I hope from starts a conversation about what this means and, more importantly, about how is often try to hijack. For political purposes, I mean to give our lessons learned more backstory, so there's this prayed in Europe

city, but historically presidents don't attend because Les you said you don't want to politicize the event. It's also important to note for folks it there's a lot you can do in and around Washington DC on veterans day. There's a reef ceremony at the tomb of the unknown soldier at Arlington National Cemetery, which I don't believe Trump, has attended so he's breaking a bunch of traditions. Attending this parade in New York, but not doing things he could or should be doing in DC. It's just very yeah. I mean disappointed to say the least. I mean that he's also screwing up traffic and pissing all of New York City, which doesn't help veterans either right. I mean it's kind of a trend line here, but, but importantly, the history of the Veterans Day Parade is, is, I think, important veterans, started on Armistice day after the end of world WAR eleven day of the 11th month, and it is the parade What's the starting XI minute of the eleventh hour, so it's celebrated the end of war. It was a time of, together, but there for a long time, especially in New York. It was wrapped up in the politics of the

so for a long time. Vietnam veterans had to stage kind of a guy Miller March, because they weren't welcomed by the city. They famously had a march across the Brooklyn Bridge Bridge. In past city hall, because the mayor wooden greet them so there's decades of that kind of cow suffocation of power, it's only after nine eleven. If we finally made it an event of unity- and it's been way really for the last fifteen years or so until today, which is too will trump fashion is kind of invaded with the politics and partisanship and tone and and nastiness of of what has become the Trump administration's view on a lot of issues, but I think is best veterans of military affairs we're not immune to it. You know we'd, like veterans to be above politics, but reality is they are part of politics? And politics are apart let us just like every other issue, an American, maybe even more central, because its our values, it's about honour, its about integrity and it's about our now. The fence in things like nukes, so the stakes their way. Higher everything having to do with our issues, I think than most others yeah. I agree so I

point of the urine independent. You know. Obviously, people heard you talking about Trump last few minutes, but you've criticized Obama when he screwed up at the vizier on veterans policy generally are or other issues, and that no that's just context I think as relevant, because I think you're not its broker on this stuff, and I also think that you know veterans policy or VA reforms. Getting much attention in the election. I guess nothing is except for impeachment, and then you know the ongoing wrestling in the democratic side, butt, We have two veterans running right now: Riley of Tulsi, Gabbard and Mayor PETE, Buttigieg in the race is anyone proposed policy. That you think are interesting that you want to highlight, or on the flip side, is anyone really like failing to put forward a vision? I think that raw failing them into two to cut back to you know that the question I mean I have been an independent. My whole a freely and my organization was independent and I think I represent what it. What is it? What is a huge part of this electorate,

especially within the veterans, can be there? A lot of people were on it filiated or independent. That's what my podcast, is about angry Americans about the angry independence, the angry middle, the people who feel represented in many ways. We'd love, for you, know angry Americans to be four, independence, not affiliated to pod, save America has become for the left, because I think we need a ploy or we can come together and have a sense of community and hold people accountable nobody's got a vision I think failed and in many areas- and I was a prior real pain in the ass to you in a lot of the people who work in the industry- and I think, if you look back on the vizier, it was an opportunity for him to prove the Democrats could make government work in a very powerful way and when it works well, it's the GI bill when it works poorly, it's a scandal at Phoenix and the resignation of Ericsson sexy the Ba secretaries I have been the only the second, the only cabinet secretary to resign and scandal during the entire Obama administration. So I think it's it's low hanging fruit that both sides tend to miss.

Right now, Trump talked a lot about history today, but he didn't talk about calling the suicide rate which is taking When you better and every day he didn't talk about visa reform in any kind of substantive way. He didn't talk about me the Vienna more inclusive, two women. He didn't. We talk about really popular issues like cannabis for better, and so he must achieve to lay out and articulate a strategy for veterans, and I think the other candidates an opportunity to do that in a couple of rolled it out today, but I think the Democratic Party failed to really articulate. What is the Democrats plan for veterans and who is their leader I have chop is the de facto leader right now for the Republicans on veterans. For a long time. Maybe it was John Mccain made was others, but now it's trump on the other side, who's it going to be- and I think that's yet to be seen it might be people it might be Tulsi gabbard it might be. Some of the Democrats are not that thrilled with being their leader on veterans issues, so I think the constant especially now Tommy is going to be that it's a jump off and it could be very.

Politically powerful, because veterans are also the altar populist issue, if you get veterans right it can the cascade and powerful political ways, and if you get it wrong, it can be a third rail we for a long time. They ve got three groups of people in politics. You can't piss off babies puppies in that right. You got to always do right by babies, puppies and Betts, and if you do right, you get a lot of political capital if you do wrong you're going to pay for it and, what I hope we'll see over the next couple of months and all the way through- that the election The court is only one vote, so you don't do with that. Information will be coming to trumps like trumps. Mastery of this right and some levels, he got it right in terms of populism here he really beat Hillary Clinton because you just said it over and over again, when I would be out all across the country talk on the phone talking to veterans they say, Donald Trump supports veterans This is he says it all the time and he would price I had ten twenty times more than Hilary Clay, wood and then, even in the last couple of weeks he captures

unique populism that exists round veterans issues. He treated a picture of the dog despair, forces dog. The raid on my back e, because that kind of got two out of the three you got. Amvets in one shot, but I think it cuts today some levels of political understanding that he has about the power of veterans and and millet Folks, did the Democrats so far really haven't been able to understand or recapture show they can do the same? Yes, what sakharov that that relationship? So, like I sit back and I Fox Trump, and I see him say he knows more about ISIS than his generals in in Schmidt, on Jim Mattis, when he's attacked gold, star families and then his son Donald Trump Jr wrote in this new book that visiting Arlington National Cemetery made him think of the sacrifices the Trump family had made here those comments Paul and I think that would be a political one, sentence for anyone else. Certainly any Democrat: they get no support from veterans forever. They would be rightly attacked and criticise it will be over, but

I just never how it works with Trump. Why do you think that, able to get past those kinds of comments and Howard Democrats failing to talk to you or talk with veterans in connect with them on a level that might earn their political support this is this is really really cord of politics and arm in our country right now, the fact that he has not been held accountable on so many issues especially on the issues surrounding our military and veterans community, I mean and are being deported. Did that the rights of Gay veterans and Trans veterans are being attacked constantly chick level. You know he abandoned the Kurds, which is in my experience. The most universally unpopular movies ever made in the military this. This is very, very different right here from Republicans and Democrats who are you firstly outraged and upset by that move because

we have abandoned or allies. We really can cut the legs out from under our troops, not just now but in the future, if we abandon the Kurds, nobody's gonna stand up with our guys and girls in Afghanistan or anywhere else in the future. But I It really starts with having a strategy, and I think has always had a strategy about making veteran issues, central they're, not special interest group to him there, not a communal. Of minorities. In the same way, they often are in the Democratic Party there their central to everything he does, and I think that's a very important and effective strategy. Then it can- down to who's your messenger. Now he is by default, able to get away with this shit, but he's offering rapping often the american flag, sometimes literally anyway, Navy seals, he's got dogs he's got medal of honor recipients, he plays the staging of it well the other side. The Democrats don't seem to have a strategy and they definitely don't have a clear leader. So there's nobody I could Jim web right for, though the victim

core veteran from from Virginia who is a senator, there's no John Kerry who's out in front by default. It's kind of a group of different people. Chair. The senator interferes committee seller, John Esther from Montana, probably something most so most Americans don't even know and he's not a veteran for a long time the leader for the Democrats was Bernie Sanders which politically, It's not exactly a winning hand. If you want to fight on veterans issues, and you want to put a socialist anti war. Cried and very centres. It's not a winning political hand, regardless of how you feel about Bernie Sanders, so they master strategy the messages they they ve got key leader and I think, most more Tommy their first job seems to o be pressing the tempo right, whether its revealing the news about the big, daddy re or attacking colonel. Been men who shouldn't be attacked or just getting the took to the parade first, if this were a military operation, Trump is always pay. The pace and the Democrats always seem to be on defense tonight goes back to

Barbie shoes around the Democrats is internally in reconciling anti war positions and a complicated history in this country. There's a lot, that's been written and said by Jim Web and Bob carry and others, but this is a chance to turn that page for the Democrats with new faces, and it's got to be peep Tammy Duckworth. It's got to be people like people to judge and the other one we actually didn't mention is Joe Sestak he's, not regular democratic congressman from Pennsylvania and now he is still in in the race at Morton, was in the race of you. Look across the spectrum and Democrats to one point, four or five I've post, nine, eleven veterans and Republicans have none. I think of you I had to four and eight years, it's probably going to be a proxy war on both side or both parties recognize this political power, but yeah that's been true for George Bush JFK all the way back to George Washington when he first became president after resigning, his commission, as a general

I like to have more than a lot, and I like just act two, I literally just forgot he was running for present. I didn't mean to not- including I know it. That's dudgeon point you hit me right because the demo, it would become of the Democrats to elevate the fact that he's running right he's a rich admiral. He has credibility is not even polling, but but I think it does make a case They want to be seen as strong on defense and they want to be seen as strong and veterans issues. They've got to raise up these leaders, Ruth them all the time or even if they're not their best horse, and you can make an argument that says that might make a good cabinet secretary and the same could be made for Tulsa Peter anyone else, so I think it really is about about casting, but I see it all the time. There's no clear leader, drive, strategy and picking someone to be out in front for Democrats on these issues. The last time I saw it was maybe when they pick Patrick Murphy, the Congress, from Pennsylvania to be the leader on. Don't ask don't tell

he chose him, put him out in front and he became the guy who was carrying water on that issue over and over again on every Sunday morning, new show every press conference, Patrick Murphy was the quarterback and he was picked by in the general manager that was Nancy policy to be that quarter, and it was a winning a winning playbook in and in a winning game. In the end, I think they would be well suited to go back and look at that again. Yeah, so You mentioned this challenge. Democrats often have of these votes in favour. Of authorizing wars in I think back to when you were when the rock right, I mean the vote to authorize, as the war in Iraq was seen as you are either with the troops are not the vote for the surge was you know about cutting a running and supporting our troops Democrats should talk about. Vote on matters of war and peace, knowing that that's the political over but also knowing that you know we're not going to nineteen years later, I don't know

continuing had operation is supporting the troops writer music. How do you think about this? I think starting to change. I may I think, you're gonna see mayor. Peat is probably the best bet right. If you were cake among the can let someone who can take this fight to trump most aggressively, who can embody who can challenge him on values is gonna, be mayor, p right like he said before he said you know I was in Afghanistan when Trump was on the He can draw these contracts. I think you ve seen in the last couple weeks he's down it up because it works. Places like Iowa. It works in places like Pennsylvania and I would argue, it's gonna work across the country when John We came out for the nomination he Salut what is John Kerry reporting for duty made. It was a little bit on clay feet because the party wasn't ready for that and I'll country was even ready for it in some ways that that's me, history goes back to in two thousand, for I came home and approached the carry campaign. I approach Bush

wanted to talk about it Rock and neither one of them wanted to. You know that's how I feel Your colleague, Jon Favreau I mean he was a speechwriter and carries campaign back in the day, but it back in two thousand for the Democrats, more comfortable, really talking about it. Use of national defence and security. They have come a long way, but I think this generation, really represents the best hope and starts like any other political operation has to start locally it s a start with building a form team and whatever We build state. The veteran farm team, I think, will will do well on policy, will do right on policy and will win I've called it a camouflage wave. I think there A wave of candidates from both parties is going to sweep over our politics of the next couple years and could define our politics. Next generation. I would be surprised if, in the next two three presidential candidates, both candidates, weren't veterans, I think see both parties putting veterans much more aggressively out in front in some ways it is a proxy war it's always been the case in american politics, so

one person in this race whose better and it's been a bit of a mystery, I think to the democratic party- has been totally gathered- You interviewed her a couple weeks back on your show and angry Americans, and I listened to it and for the first time I felt like I can, I have understood where she was coming from on a whole bunch of issues. You pressed her hard on a bunch of shit, I wanted to hear about Russia about Syria about support from the the right. Okay, I get it like I get where she's coming from and then, like a day later, she had this big blow up with Hillary Clinton, still hasn't gone away? I just a press release come through my slack, where she's demanding that Hillary Clinton Protestants men saying she supports and admires tulsi. So I'm just again, I'm confused, like clear to me that tells he's not really running for president of the democratic side that you don't go on bright part all the time you don't go on Fox news overtime. If that's your strategy, she's doing something,

but I'm not entirely sure what the endgame is. What do you make of it? Tulsi is fascinating and if some infuriating. I did a poll on my twitter feed after I interviewed her and asked who is less popular right now. The Democratic Party Donald Trump or Tulsi Gabbard it was. It was cool close in some areas. I mean she has unique ability to to piss off and outrage many in the party, but what I have also seen I've interviewer in on on the radio and also an angry Americans at length, is that she has a very unique appeal to a lot of unlikely constituencies. Some appealed to the military and veterans folk she's also got in a Bernie Anti war. Folks, now she's pivoting into MM fighters in Crossfit people she really is putting together an unlikely coalition that is around a really kind of nebulous identity, which is what has, as I think, heard her at times, I'm not going to be an apologist for Tulsi Gabbard. I asked her flat out, I'm like what is up with you, I don't

Christian you, a lot of people, don't understand you, people who love her think she's a superhero people who hate I think, she's a bond villain, and will see where sheep and shakes out over time, but I think she is, building something different for the long term that will go will be propelled by places like Breitbart but are also appealing to many independence and unofficially I see it all the time and she has worked across partisan lines in the I've worked with her in the house I work the latter Republicans as well. She and Brian Mast a double amputee from food Republican came together on burn pits, toxic exposure issues for providers. Gather frequently when we needed someone to go across the aisle in ferret Gabbert would do it when a lot of other Democrats, wouldn't so you know she's pissed off. People. Very, very unique she's, also taking some pages from Trump like that? The that ever happened to her campaign was for Hilary too, where there was intentional or not attacker, she's gonna play

That card is awfully. She can it. If someone wants to get an assist on Tulsa, ending up on the next debate stage of Hillary Clinton, she wouldn't have gotten to four percent and gotten to the next debate, Hillary hadn't mentioned her name, so I think, She is very true, she's, very smart, she's running a good social media and media operation. She's gone places where people won't go like Joe Rogue it. She did, Three hour interview on the very popular Joe Rogan podcast might be the only podcast. Popular than yours, but I think she gotta be fascinating. He has more people trust yeah but she's, going to be fascinating to watch and anything vexing. I think that is what would toss you gave. It isn't she's vexing. I have also strongly criticised or for night condemning Assad is a war criminal. He is a war criminal. I ask why she won't call Putin, an enemy, sir. I'm not a lot. Some of it has to do a philosophical view. Some of it ass do politics, and I think we gotta go you'd oppressor and every other candidate yeah you

taxing yesterday. Bs tells you is doing an event in Santa Monica where they did cross fit on the beach, and it was such a different kind of event in California, which is sort of proving not be that significant in this early primary process. It was fascinating. If I wasn't such a soft old, I want to go out and Don T even know what, if you want really motivated people who will get out the vote in get out and grind its cross with people. I mean there they are just like their own political party in of themselves, and if you can be a come, the candidate of crossfire. That's like a base next ten years that can propel you through a lot of stuff You mentioned the burn pet issue. Can you explain the listeners what that is? Because I think it's really important, but there is not a lot of awareness about the challenge. Shore burn Its are the agent orange of our generation in Iraq, Afghanistan overseas frequently when we were in combat zones they had to get rid of a lot of stuff. It was, article waste. It was military parts, it could be anything they put it in a giant.

Set it on fire used to be like the shit cans in in Vietnam, It would burn, literally burn the shit with like jet fuel and guys and gas would be seen stirring these these big chance now sometimes there is big as an acre there, like a giant enfield that are on fire, and that was how often the military dispose of waste all the way back to the invasion right after nine Slash eleven in Afghanistan. So for now over a decade, Folks have been breathing in these toxins and now we're seeing signs of cancer receiving other signs of respiratory issues and its thousands potentially hundreds of thousands of men and women who served after nine Slash eleven. It's a lot the symptoms we saw after ground zero. I'm a nine hundred and eleven first responder and I've been apart of eighty four, the nine eleven first responders and getting them the health care that they need, because so many of them are dying. We are seeing actually the same tread lying around burn pits and it could more lives ultimately over the next couple of days,

than any enemy or any other issue were facing in the militants, absolutely serious its deadly its exact. The country is you, the president could focus on instead of focus, politics, and the candidates should put focus on because veterans care about it, but also the american public cares about it. I hope, if you haven't heard of burn pits used tag, burn pits check him out. We need your help and support and its one We can really unite around a policy issue. That's also very important, locally, yeah totally agree question for you, so by now, everyone listening is realize that you're, a pretty damn good talker, tell him angry Americans why'd you decide to to get into this dirty business of podcasting. Do you just have a passion for underwear ads let me tell you, ve torment to grow up no I mean that the seriousness as you know, I have been doing advocacy for a long time and I had to ask myself: how can I take it up a notch? How can I use my skill set to really drive forward this precarious state of affairs in America. I think America is in a very dangerous place.

Any of your listeners feel the same way in. For me, media was the way to try to drive that conversation forward, bring people together and make change, and I also There was no home for me as an independent. There is no home for me as an unaffiliated. I don't love Fox NEWS, I don't live MSNBC, I don't live Donald I don't love AOC, there's no home for me, so I decided to create one I think there's a lot of folks who feel that they are underrepresented. Just angry the lie I use our times. If you're, not angry, you not paying attention, there's plenty to be angry about in America, and we can all unite around that it could be burnt pits. It could be infrastructure. Could be the New York Knicks suck, there's a lot of reasons to be angry, but I think we can turn that anger into a vigilant Ninja positive impact trump has hijacked anger. I want to take it back he's also hijack patriotism, and I want to be a taking that back so angry Americans. First podcast to come out of our new meme.

Teddy righteous media. We want righteous to be front affiliated and independence were, crooked is for the left. The middle hasn't had a voice and hasn't had media vehicles in places. Come together. We want righteous to be a part of that and we think it's going to be good for America. Just like you guys. We will support We will support causes, we will throw punches, we will take punches we're going to be in the mix, because this is about the fight for America's future and in our view, it's bigger than party, have to transcend party and no matter who wins next year. Work to do. We have to stick together. So angry Americans is my attempt right now, the first of many to try to drive this country forward in the positive direction. Well, I'm a fan, I'm a listener. I have no doubt that you'll be in the next round punches and it will be awesome to watch and I want to check it out Thanks for doing the show, I know it's a crazy day for you. I really appreciate it Tommy, thank you and congratulations to you and the guys you're really doing a tremendous public service and version.

I'm really really grateful for. You join in my show in four stand on these issues that are not always, secondly by but you been on for a long time and grateful for your support and friendship thanks to Paul Reich for joining us today and we will will seek as bright and early on Wednesday morning in our slide channel. If you want to see that and then and then did- and I will be doing upon others what time is hearing starting on one side, it at ten a dot m eastern to seven, a dot m our time, god dammit. Someone wake love it up. Neither would stand for this, now, there's not a morning person and a pot hot America's, a product of crooked media. The senior producer is Michael Martinez, our system for Jordan Waller its mixed in did by Andrew Chadwick. Kyle said: when is our sound engineer, thanks to Carolyn

Tom you so many are incapable of production. Support into our digital team lies, co, normal Conan, Yell Freed in Milo Camp, who film and upload these episodes as a video every week.