Sometimes it feels like american society. If not, the whole world is falling apart. The ocean is on fire. People are fighting airplanes and worst of all, every movie seems to be a re make of a remains of a marvel at him and when you feel that way, it honestly becomes pretty hard to care about the nuts and bolts modern limit. But the more I thought about it. The more have come to believe that the on slaughter grim news can just as easily serve as a driver for arming people with the knowledge they need to make things better, even if only a little them I'm brian boiler every week on positively dreadful guess, I will break down an issue that contributing to your eggs and tap into the power of understand new episodes of positive, a dreadful premier, each riding with an unhappy podcast spotify or wherever you get your pot casts today is presented- My is simply simply home security security. Twenty twenty three will hopefully be a quieter year between election cycles that come before the twenty twenty four storm, honest or republican,

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they show america hits the debt limit and republicans prepared to take hostages. The best committee assignments go to the house the biggest mega freaks and there are already to investigate Joe Biden garage, then the boy works there along well joints talk about what's on voters, mines and later we'll find out of denmark that's coming to take your gas stove in a noose, It called I'm about to myth bust, Thank you, living martinez producer coming up with that title, but first the crooked store has decided. At long last to update our friend the pod march? They got that. Yes, we dan stuff out of the way now there's more room for dated friend of the show, is on a deep discount right now I saw it last night you hit on a deep disc. You didn't get a hoodie for like half price right now, that's that's exciting! Am I gonna run myself the new and improved

pieces include classic tee, shirts crew, annexing hats in fresh new colors there's, even some camel seek and blended with the forests and or your uncle's who, like hunting, believe it was wearing a camel friend of the pod had just the other day He looked fantastic anyway. It's all available now a crooked die, slash store. Let's get to the news. As of today, the united states has hit the debt limit which means that the federal government cannot borrow any more money to pay the bills we ve already wrapped up until congress authorizes it to do so, as it is done in the past, the treasury and set it can take, quote extraordinary measures to keep paying our bills until some time in june. When the? U s will be forced to start skipping debt payments precipitating a global economic crisis. Unlike any, we ve seen in our lifetimes president Biden, the Democrats, congress would like to avoid such a crisis by simply authorizing the treasury to pay our bills overhead,

wiggins refused to do so? Unless they get massive spending cuts that would have to include medicare medicaid and social security happy thursday? they said this day would never come so for people. you haven't, lived through or paid attention to one of these debt limit standoffs. Can you explain why congress period ugly, lights, a giant fuse under the economy and waits to put it out until the last possible. Second, well, John, It began just one of many metaphors we're going to use the great thing about it. That's ceiling crisis is this just a whole bunch of metaphor is free to use. There's hostage, taking, there's lighting a fuse, there's, there's gonna, holding a gun to the economy. They just endless met forced to use all of them very cliche. The ceiling itself is a metaphor if you, but that's right, It all begins. John with the founders.

Who made a series of ill informed decisions based on recently by us there. then compounded by. Fifty years of dysfunction and incompetence, republicans, brought us to this moment now where the entire What kind me depends on mars If the green pago sar alone blonde robert usa, Where say I mean how deep you want to go here. Do you want, and should we explain what the debt ceiling is, how we got like what like what it means is that the right way yeah, let's go well, let's go. Sixty second vocs explain her route. I've! Never, sixty seconds, so we're pebbles short version united states runs into deficit. We spend more and we bring in that- has been done- over four years, since nineteen. Seventy and therefore- in order to pay your bills, we have to borrow money. In the beginning of this country congress had approve ever time that, u S, treasury borrowed money to pay, it smells. They found that

for some, because even back then they didn't like working so well, or one day stability to grant the you trust. Secretary authorities. You borrow money up into a certain number when they hit that nobody to come back for more authority, and so we have now hit that number you have borrowed as much money means that down the trick, jerry. I cannot borrow anymore money without congress. Passing a add that his where, over the course of time to congress having to pass the devil, been they pass it many many times of ass. They pass it as recently as a year and a half yup and all it is usually a very pro forma thing that happens, but now it has become imbued with all sorts of drama, because our politics are driven by radical maga extremists, And the key thing to remember here, if you remember nothing else, is that congress, has already authorized this spending

So it is not by riff by lifting the debt ceiling you're, not painting the united states government, the authority to spend more money, because everything has already been spent. All you're doing is saying. Ok, the united states can pay the debts it has already incurred, which is why the whole thing is stupid. Yes, all them. it's been spent. Not lifting the debt limit will not reduce spending. It will not reduce the deficit, it will not reduce the debt. In fact, it'll make those things worse, which we can talk about the minute. It is a completely fake stupid If you want to reduce spending, you negotiate through the budget process, because congress passes a budget once in awhile that authorizes pending, and so, if you dont like how much were spending that's where you go she ate in in the in the budget process that happens once a year that could possibly. To a government shut down, which is also stupid, but it lee

That is the area that you negotiate. If you want to reduce spending, the debt limit is just saying: oh there's this artificial thing out there that bit conquers has put in place that if we breathe it could cause economic catastrophe and now we're gonna use that as leverage to get. What we want is what the Republicans are saying. Why would breaching the debt limit and defaulting on our debts cause economic chaos cause? I don't think it is obvious. You asked bonds what we sell to finance our debt is the bedrock of the global financial system. It is seen as the most secure, safest investment amer can make trees by it markets by it in first set of one day, the nazis was unable to pay the interest on those bonds. Then it would set off a cataclysmic chain reaction across the world. More bond markets would say, stock markets would sink, busy

as we know what you invest in it would likely. As a global recession? A? U s, recession cause the unemployment rate to go up, and then here at home, we, not that we don't know if we could pay people there. So security checks. jerk by healthcare bills veterans, would get their benefits checks in the mail f b, we would be able to deploy female. the case of a hurricane anything, and everything is on that. Boy would undo not just the economic growth. had since the pandemic, but everything since two thousand and eight it honestly. Most economists like it would make. Certainly it you dominate financial crisis. Look like a blip and would be something I can't, if not worse, to what happened in the great depression sober.

I had very bad year. Doesn't sound that doesn't sound great, doesn't sound great, and the key thing here to understand is that global financial stability depends on faith, that the? U S, will pay it's bills, and since we are, the global reserve currency in us treasury debt is is, is the safest investment in the world and when that faith is eroded, the whole thing collapses. So, for example, the last time we went through the most serious time in our lifetime that we went through one of these crises, debts and crisis. You and I were in the white house of two thousand and eleven and because congress got very very close to not lifting the debt sailing in time. Didn't breach the debt ceiling, but it got really close. The stock market plunged and did not recover for half a year. Interest rates in mortgage rates rose consumer confidence plunged, we lost our credit rating, and so there is a whole bunch of economic damage, higher costs for folks

bigger deficits that the government had to run as the cost of all this. So there was all of this economic pain and that wasn't even breaching the debt limit. So it is thence about our ability to pay their bills, but is also about the world's belief that will pay our bills and that we have a functioning government that can pay the debt that we incur and if that belief, if people don't really believe that, then chaos couldn't suit. So that's why even get close to it. The fuckin problem, but I didn't you just say that we hit it today, yes, so we headed today, we headed today and then and then janet? Yellen came out the treasury secretary and she said well. The treasury can take extraordinary measures to keep us from defaulting on the debt what are extraordinary measures dan? I was over

you're going to wear that because that's what it said the script there. Oh, I can't go there. They're called extraordinary measures, but they've become quite ordinary because now everytime there is a debt ceiling crisis. A treasury secretary comes out and takes extraordinary measures. Basic It's just shifting money around in a bunch of different accounts, appropriate to make or they may, and they like they take investments out they their certain investments to govern, makes it they sort of take out. So they can do this like it's like accounting tricks, basically that they can do for the next several months to sort of avoid hitting the real debt limit. In the nineteen eighties, when we had a very very brief that limit fight the try reagan's short circuit took money, unsuspected trust fund, which was then which was actually a legal and so since thank iris, passed a law which gave the treasure, jerry, a list of legal things, they negative and it really involves playing around with investors. pension funds that you then make whole yet on the back it Fourthly, it doesnt none of it, no one in the

The term is where'd. You feel any impact from that of. It said that since its origin, accounting for what you are going to have to at the end pay- or what you get caught across the? U s money to do this of the long term. It is other what's a stupid that we are in this place yet people who are doing this, so they could lower the deficit. This will only increase our deficits, just that the brinkmanship itself and dumb you're talking. are the treasury can move the money around so usually The treasury department has six or seven hundred billion dollars on its balance sheet that it can be used to pay our bills even back in we twenty one when we got close to the debt limit, there were days when they had almost zero. So that's how that's how shaky it can get here. Goldman Sachs, as that, even if we close to this and there's brinkmanship and we close to the debt limit. It could kill the equivalent of one tenth of america's economic activity estimates from third way, which is as interesting tanks as because three million jobs at a hundred and thirty thousand dollars to the cause

the typical thirty year mortgage and increase the debt by eight hundred and fifty billion dollars, so good job good job by controlling the debt. So republicans have been agreed on exactly what kind of budget cuts they want, but everyone, From the mega freaks to the republican sitting in Biden. Districts have said they refuse to lift the debt ceiling on its own, with just a clean that ceiling right so they are not going to bed. They don't want to do that. The white house and democrats, in congress, say veil over go. She ate potential cuts after the debt ceiling is raised because they don't want to negotiate around the debts healing. Why is that their position? And do you think it's tenable its import understand prior to two thousand eleven the debt live. It was always for show their serve an unwritten agreement that the already out of power, would not vote for the debt limit, but they were sure it pass if they have enough votes were needed, and so we have

where did all the economic damage you ve talked solely, not just not just breaching the debt limit becoming close enough, that it has damaged the economy that in two thousand and eleven when the tea party republicans came in, they realise that their economic agenda of these steep steep spending cuts and things education and health care repealing the asia comes a scream at a care were so unpopular. They can not enact them through the normal course of business? They couldn't win political power on that agenda. They couldn't never houses and no one else to do so they d try it. You shortcoming it which was to take the debt limit. say: if you don't give us are unpopular agenda, then we're gonna blow up the economy and they feel president obama to the table where he didn't do ninety nine percent of what they wanted, but there was some spending cuts. Some of them certainly were not great, and after the presence at I am never doing that again. I cannot let these people take the? U s: economy, hostage! You try to put in place this republican extremist agenda that the country does not.

Want it have rejected an election after looking after election, so in twenty thirteen, the net I'm a debt ceiling power game. He said not going, Can we can negotiate over you're gonna peasant clean that ceiling? John, you that's your job. You are in charge of the house. If you have a meeting, I'm not going if you send an offer, I'm sending it back in here? our them down any want, and that is when the democratic position since then, because if you give in a widow these are going to try to use it for everything. First, spending cuts and its medicare cuts, national abortion ban, then its banning books, all the things republicans one do they can't do normally, though, used a debt ceiling to do, and so that's why it so important to stand strong in this place. You know pay ransom to hostage takers or they'll, be incentivize to take more hostages to the challenges

That is another metaphor, the metaphor: what happens if their willing to shoot the hostage, even knowing that they may get hurt in the process which again marjorie taylor, green paula, go sir? This is the house that we ve got and then the other thing that the Democrats will have to deal with them So I feel it is what happens if Joe mansion is willing to pay the ransom? What happens if some, if the problem solvers com This is willing to pay the ransom and by that meaning at least negotiate around some cuts and at best, can be the real challenge for the white house and a lot of Democrats in the coming months. Death, that's exactly right, four publicans reported. We plan to vote on a bill that would tell the treasury department what to do if the debt limit is breached very helpful. According to the washington post, the plan is almost certain to call on treasury to keep making interest payments on the debt and may stipulate that the treasury department should continue making payments on social security, medicare and veterans benefits, as well as funding the military. Could this work

who wouldn't get paid in this scenario seems unlikely to work, and I know that because its other can economic plan, the her there's no for this, we do not now, but to be very clear. What they are saying is. whatever money, the federal government has gets its borders in the federal any during in the evening. Extraordinary measures, money still comes into the federal government. People are still paying taxes right, are there other programmes to provide revenue to the government? Is the republic's aint taken money? Every dollar you get in your first priority when you get that dollar is to pay off foreign governments that hold you must at most Finally, the checks, so we're gonna pay the chinese first, they would ever money. We have left, we might sprinkling around the american people and it seems only clear that there is enough money to do that and peace security, and they met a care and the military, And so it runs into some real substantive accounting challenges. Just let alone

could, it may probably is not go in any way, shape or form also back them point about it. This depends on faith in the ability of the EU s to pay its debts. If the world realises that the? U s yes paying interest on their debt still, but by the way, isn't cutting social security checks or paying military like that's gonna cause everything to unravel. Is well, people are going to buy our bond interest payments and no one's gonna buy the bonds, because everyone's gonna know that that's next alright. So what is impossible? solutions here that don't involve hiding all of our money under mattresses option, one publicans do they're fucking job yeah. That's it ass, a belt and that can happen in two ways. One Kevin Mccarthy puts a bill on the floor and he doesn't have to. for it is in the lobby for ninety five percent republican sort have to vote for it, uses the put the bill on the floor. Take all the Democrats small handful republicans in your their cannon

God is unwilling to do that and he may be unwilling to do because he essentially promised the freedom caucus. He would not do that in exchange for speaker for the speakership is there can be a discharge position and ditch our tradition is when Two hundred eighteen members of congress sign a petition and bring this bill to the fore, and if you get that number of signatures than a billion gotta for directly, it doesn't have to go through the free. Im caucus, stacked rules. Committee or the freedom caucus adjacent house leadership, you can just go wretched before you get a vote. You get one percent of Democrats, five percent- republicans you're done, takes time, and it requires a specific bill we don't have. We a lot of time. We now have a specific billion. So that's the problem. Yeah and the and the other is in its problem is you'd need to file the discharge petition. Basically now because it supposed to sit in committee for a certain number of days legislative days before it comes up for them

and, if you did it now, that would get us to mid may and genuine said. We have basically until mid june, so right now, you'd need to find two hundred and eighteen people in the house of representatives to sign onto the discharge position. You'd get all the Democrats, but you'd still need four or five republican. And even so called moderate. Republicans like don bacon of Nebraska, you're, saying they're, not one design onto a clean debt limit hike right now by the you'd. Also need sixty votes in the senate, for that which we don't have right now a moment we don't have ten republicans right now for the clean, a hike, so the clock is really taking on the discharge perdition option, ITALY's it as of right now. Other options include. and these are, I would say, much more chance the options, one We will be meeting the toy another coin, and so let me explain that I get the user can hear a lot about this. Is I got it? I get attacks from my brother about this.

Over the weekend. He said I ve been looking at this debt limit thing and I've been going really deep on. This is like whereby the coin sound like the coin is Ok, idea, we're gonna hear a lot about the corner like I was back in two thousand eleven. So the at one- in time congress granted the? U s: treasury secretary the sole authority to mint platinum- means of any denomination: now I've been done The legislator history return, but I'm pretty positive. This was a bill pushed by lobbyists for them the to get more like platinum, silver dollars in circulation, but because that very broadly written bill theoretically, Jerry Ellen, could meant one coin aside. One trillion dollars and value of deposit in the bank and pale of our bills Now that would solve the immediate threat of the phone it would have some real downstream economic issues that we have. You know, and I will go through the courts

The other sort of extreme option here is the present could simply direct the treasury secretary to just pay bills regardless of the delicate? and there are arguments alot of lawyers waved. The debt limit is unconstitutional, violates the fourteenth amendment, which speaks of the sanctity of u s: debt payments in debt obligations, others billy that it is in great conflict with security act and other laws that India, with entitlement programmes where we owe this, we have to pay these people. That then, of course, would go to this very fair minded supreme. We have had to make a decision, and I doing those things that are on fire, your footing, I would say, would have, would rattle the markets in tremendous way because they would know how to react, because one day we're paying our I mentioned in your wine trump appointed judge in texas, away from default and I think that would have also because of what I would say a fair amount of uncertainty. Yet again, it goes back to the question

would you buy a? U s: treasury bond. If Joe Biden in court trying to figure out if he could just stir, you know, use the fourteenth amendment two I lift the debt limit, you think the I wouldn't. I don't think I want you, they, the full and credit of united states being to Margaret yellow, green and paul cocytus, alarming think about it when it becomes the pillow between guinean clarence thomas, like its fits. Have it done much better? Very there are any other options I want more will you let me hear yours well, Davos has been celebrity Joe mansion has been hit. given interviews from Davos, which, as you know where or west virginia conservative, goes to hang out many of the people I think I believe he was talking to maria barter romo again that typical do you do when you are at Davos, with the people and he's miss hale. I guess I do think we should

sister, you know at least a goes. We should obviously lift the debts. We shouldn't play around with the full faith in credit, the united states, but we should at least use this moment to recognise that our debt is out of control and form some kind of committee. So you can see see some kind of committee solution come out of this, and I have heard a few people talk about the trust act which is like by partisan legislation in the senate, which basically says that you form a rescue committee for each trust fund in the united states. The social security trust fund, the medicare trust fund, and then he basically have the committee's come up with solutions for it to make those funds solvent and then oliver simply does. Is its fast tracked, the legislation to the floor so that it can get a vote, but nothing else it doesn't require anything. It doesn't instil. Any kind of automatic cuts is basically just a committee. Now it back in Joe mansion and mitt romney, whose us sponsor of this bill and people. I got on board that's great

I wonder if in the house that doesn't run into the same problems for cabin mccarthy, that a clean hike would run into because I don't think that's going to satisfy marjorie taylor, green and paul ghosts are and the freedom caucus, but I could see that be in what one end game here there is a history here wishes in two thousand and ten when the Democrats had nine senators and where the process of freaking out about the upcoming swainson elections, the Senate Democrats try to hold president obama hostage over the debt limit and demanded the creation of the simpson bowles commission in two thousand and ten we did the commission play and we passed with the lifting the debt limit was a potential bottom vote on the simpson bowles: debt commission, which had no teeth, that commission met it filled hours of time on morning Joe, but the original inclusion and force. No sentiment,

twenty eleven, the Republican specifically rejected a commission and in with no teeth for one that had to have teeth and so the whole the all the spending cut deal that around twenty seven that we deeply regret. Came at the end of a large part of the commission. That could come up with no plan, because rolling democrats obviously can agree on these things because they want cancer skirted. We don't, then, then these forest mandatory cuts when the play, so that that that would be the blockage here is that it and down the pure commissioned path and it hasn't gotten what they want. So that'd make it harder for mccarthy. Let me ask you something back in two thousand and ten, when the simpson bowles commission was created, what if someone were to tell you that over a decade later, you'd be talking about simpson bowles with me on a podcast I would put the odds of that at exponentially higher than the simpson balls commission accomplishing gets goals. I don't even know a podcast was at that time and I would have been on the upon a real throwback, the simpson bowls commission,

anyway. I think everything will be fine, maybe maybe put the money under your mattress. I don't know, I don't think it's look at it was It was scary, being in the white house dealing with this in two thousand and eleven, and that was with the tea party, which today looks a much saner. Then the republicans who currently control the house- so that's all I'll, say about that. It is a. It is something to definitely be concerned about and of all the stories we talk on this buck fast. I do think breaching the doubt limit, while it sounds boring and in the weeds is something that we should be alarmed yet and twenty thirteen it almost killed me yeah, that's right, yeah, you live is literally gave you a stroke. I mean not literally by close enough close enough close enough, lest anyone think that cooler republican heads may prevail on there.

Look no further than the committee assignments Kevin Mccarthy handed out to some of the most batch. It mega house, members, Jim Jordan, here. The judiciary committee anti vocs election denier mark green will chair homeland security and the houses, our committee, which handles most investigations, will include marjorie taylor, green pall, gostar, Lauren, barber and coo plotter, Scott parry. The white has had something to say: this. Here's press secretary cringe on pierre at her briefing yesterday on some of these key committees? It appears that house republicans have handed over the keys to the most extreme Echo members of the republican cock as this is what we're seeing from the other side of pennsylvania of pennsylvania. haven't. These are members who have promoted violent rhetoric and dangerous conspiracy theories and so republican leader should explain. They should have to explain, not as they should have to explain Why allowing these individuals to serve on these committees and come

clean with the american people about this, the secret agreements, the secret, deals that were made with these extreme mega mega extremists in that are currently in in the house. So unusual for the white house to comment on house committee assignments. Why do you think they did because it's unusual to appoint a bunch of media drifting? not like to be in charge of import legislative committees, you think it might be politically beneficial for the white us situation were a republican, we're any house that has no ability- or in this case even interest in enacting laws. The way they get attention the way they the country comes. Another miss through committee. Hearing some particular invest gives manoeuvring. So if you put a bunch, of people who are avatars, the exact republicans or their asses kickin, twenty two you're, giving a gift to the white house. So every time you know it's like the documents right, we're at our that Second, the romans can hold all these oversight during the press, what

or the shit eyes, oversight hearings because they want to be one. They desperately need cable ratings like never before, and they want to be balanced because they give so much coverage of the general six hearings. And when the americans aromas either see marjorie taylor, green and lauren barbarism paul ghosts are saying insane stuff? It's just gives the white house an amazing opportunity to dismiss what the republicans are doing as being a Shall you put clouds on the dias? It's like a circus. He didn't think they'll comport themselves. Well you. Don't work idle wine to be dismissed, of the chance to comport themselves well and take their jobs very seriously, but it seems unlikely to me, like you know if she doesn't mentioned your space lasers, maybe that's when maybe they fit or they don't invite. Only, for example, is in the front row yeah exactly no white national as at the hearing that when you know I I I think the way has his pretty excited about this politico reported that they were texting each other digital high, fives hooker.

This, which may be what's a digital high five that leg Is that open hand emoji, you think I don't know. I mean just high five, each other. They worsen remains to each other in an office right: digital high, fives, ok, One of the issues these yahoo is in the house have promised to investigate is how classified documents from the about. Restoration ended up in president Biden, home and office. Around twenty documents have now reportedly been recovered. So far, some mark top secret, at least one marked the highest classification level ts fbi, which stands for topsecret, sensitive compartment information and since we ve got nothing to do but wait for the new special counsel to complete his investigation. The media is filling time by speculating

the political followed, with some help from all the usual suspects leading to headlines like this one from NBC news, democratic allies grow frustrated with white house response to binds classified documents. Love and democratic allies and burden themselves to reporters in it's just my my favorite thing. If everything that happens, dan. What could the white house have done differently and what should they be doing now develop time travel gone back the twenty seven gateway seventeen and not for the documents in the office in the garage and I said like obviously word kidding here, but I'm trying to make the point that Ninety nine percent of the legal, judges in political terms. I have from that mistake what has been said and done since then has come. Did some of it, but ultimately that that's the problem. once you have put a classified documents in the wrong place at the exact same time that the former is united states is involved in this area.

So far in your most likely rival for the presidency is in his own classified document. Investigation being invested. By a special counsel appointed by your attorney general. You are almost certainly going to end up right here, which is in the middle of a controversy that the press and the republicans can use false equivalence to amp up and have your own special counsel vacation. Almost nothing in between then and now would have averted that outcome. That makes sense yeah and I think the the main criticism that I've seen is I started off by telling us they were documents in the office and why didn't they tell us, then that there were also documents in the residence that there were other. You know why didn't? Why did this information continue to dribble out over the course of a week or so, and the washington post had some great? I had a great story on this very deeply reported and it does seem like

so the lawyer finds the first set of documents. Does what they're supposed to do and mediately notifies the Biden officials, the buying officials, immediately notify the department of justice again. What's yours was to do in the department of justice, as to the by lawyers are right, but you guys chill out. We are now running this investigation cause it's the department of justice and that's what's proper to do, and once the department of justice started running the investigation, though Biden people said thought to themselves. We can't really speak publicly about this, because we don't want to interfere or be seen as influencing in any way the independent dio jays investigation, and so we are not going to say anything about this until dio J, complete the investigation and says something

on their own. Now, with the o J then decided was we're going to have now appoint a special counsel on all of this and that we're going to you know, go at our own pace, so you can imagine. I know, because you were the white house communications director, a situation where a lot of the coms people on the white house were sitting there saying like. Why can't we give more information out to the press? Why can't we be transparent about? and the lawyers are saying we don't wanna get crossway as with the ongoing investigation, that's being conducted by the justice department, which is supposed to be independent, which were not was to be influencing in any way. Essentially as a legal and political strategy, the white house made a bet that, if they cooperated as far as they could were the opposite of what trump was did everything right showed that harmony justice they wanted to get to the bottom glibly they legitimately did yeah that they. This would not

come to light before the justice department had decided. There was nothing to investigate it, no permanent committed. So you haven't one day they would say Biden how these documents we ve looked at it. It's fine and they would avoid a special council. Has a special council comes with a lot of downstream impacts of other things. Investigate in sort restart the club. zero again for much of the work already done, then there's a new person in charge. That was their bet. That bet did not pay off I understand why they may that, but- If this said there was a mistake from a public relations perspective, and this is the case that you set of legal approach- tramping power dixon messaging is when CBS news got the story about that dog that one document at Biden. Ten center, they responded. To that end. The decision, if one is washing prosecutors, I think very well done very helpful understanding. All this, we're only going to react to what is public or not to potentially. There's a parameter justice bites putting out information, they have not put out

They put out a statement that we did not fully disclose all the information. Then they ended they may they did the same thing again we found out about the garage document then had to then react without document came out and That is always in the crisis mutations. When one is tell the story on your terms and tell it all at once, and so now, you're and sort of drip drip drip, which is eroded. Some credibility with the press, which is looking for a reason to go after by eighty percent. I. They made that decision. We can't go back in time and fix it, but that is sort of where they are. You can tell they've already changed approach some because Bob bauer, who was the presents personal journey here, you and I know very well- we worked with for years. It's the best in the business. They conference call with reporters, may I believe it was to help, explain the whole J custody, the events, the approach and the

This was because I was fully informed by people who are trying to get the full salary out. The last line of the Washington post story notes that the the Biden office, where they originally found the first document, has remains unclear. How the fuck, what's so, that they haven't finished check on that one like I'm sure that, from president Biden to his political team to his communications team, they are quite annoyed with the the pace and style of the justice department investigation into this cause, I'm sure they would like nothing more than for them to check all of the places that the classified documents could be as fast as possible and finish. This investigation as fast as possible, like no one likes this dress,

being out in other they're. Not they're not cheering this on, for no, no, no, I would imagine they are not. So it's like. I thought that Matt Miller, who we both know, who has worked at the white house and the justice department, had had a good quote in the Washington post story. He said oftentimes when you're doing something that from the outside doesn't appear to make sense. It's not because you don't know what you're doing it's, because you face some choices. People don't understand or- and I would add that sometimes people aren't allowed to understand, because you're not allowed to talk, them which put you in a shitty political position. But you know you have to be like. I will were following guidelines were following the law and that's what we're doing every and who talks about rights about tweets about the white house should write that quote down and put it on. Here, because that explains so much of all the is like these people are very are we know them? Why did they do this? That's the answer is they're doing it for thirty making this decision, because, as a whole, bunch of other competing equities that we do not know about, cannot know about, could be

In this case, a legal situation in authors, nash, security situations, legislative situations, well done, mats, private exploration, working in the white house, is like in why people like us who talk about it have to be very open minded about. Why is more complicated than we think. In times point I what a great why, what a great way back when we come back, I will talk to several well from the bulwark about. What's on voters, my part america is brought you by men who Cora do you know that the best tasting honey on the planet comes from you? inland tommy. Everybody knows that the well known it's a well known part of the things that everyone seems to know. I do not know that in the remote magical forests of this small island bees feed the highly active nectar of the men who Cora t tree core and made

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Patsy America's brought by noon do you eat because your board, absolutely most here has up food when it's free? Yet that's also me if I, oh dont, stress new wake and help you break the cycle and change your habits for good. They say losing weight starts with your brain, so new ways, in psychology to help you understand your eating habits and learn how to make healthier choices every day. Scientific principles like cognitive, behavioral therapy, help you understand your relationship with food and you don't have to give up carbs or anything to date. Noom weight has helped more than four point. Six million people lose weight. Choose your level of support from five minute daily check ins to personal coaching active first time, numerous lose an average of fifteen pounds in sixteen weeks. Wow yeah: that's that's why we love noom here because a it's not too strict Just sorta helps guide you to make better choices. Gonna make better choices, were all making choices every day and not enough

and you're, saying oh I'll, eat cheesecake factory for the second time in a week, but the point is nimh can help and you should sign up for ok glad we got recutita on this stay focused on what's important to you with noom weight. Psychology based approach sign up for your trial today at noon. Dot, com, slash crooked, that n o o m dot com, slash cricket sign up for your trial today and check out news first ever book, the new mindset, a deep dive into the psychology of behavior change available to buy now, wherever books or sold. Joining us today is published of the bulwark founder of the republican accountability project host of the excellent focus group- podcast, never trump extraordinaire. Sarah long well, thank you so much for having me it's great to be here in person, you were kind enough to help analyze. One of our wilderness focus groups. This season, you conducted countless focus groups use in the run up to the midterms. Did anything surprise you about the results. I mean

yeah. The results were still better than I expected in terms of every swing states. Election denier going down, with the exception of I guess Johnson yeah, and so, but I will say yes, you may recall this from our conversation. One of the things that I was saying over and over and over again about the swing voters was look a lot of the people who voted for binding, voted against trump who are, but it voted for fur trumped the first time they are sure of centre right in their orientation. They wanted to vote for publican, but they didn't want to vote for the Republican that they had in the offing there are states argued here from them yeah. I'd really like to vote for a publican by not voting for blake masters are not voting for doktor oz, So you know I was certainly- and I remember arguing on cnn panel, but about don balled up can I was like, I could go for baltic, like I sort of new, though that that was out, but I guess I was, and we are the biggest outside spenders against.

harry late, but I was really worried about that race and I really thought carry lake was gonna, pull that one so I guess I was still pleasantly surprised, but I think that I, You see and swing voters there. Was not an appetite for these extreme candidates. Do do you think the explanation for the when the terms is as simple as like republicans now made it too many magda freaks, or was there anything else at play like how much Think abortion mattered. How much you think demand

I see matters which I know is sort of a hard thing to define, but yeah. So the way that I try to cause there was an after in the aftermath of the elections, there's a lot of reporters were trying to like pull them apart like it was, a democracy was an abortion and it was actually it was all of it right. So the venn diagram of somebody who was really extreme on abortion and who was like a big election denier and super maga was basically a circle right so like they were the same people and what you would hear from the voters over and over again was just that they were nuts and they would often hey look they're in the same breath, they would say. Well, you know, blake masters is crazy. On his position on abortion is crazy, he's an election ayer and he really likes the unabomber. You know like there was just like it all came together to form this. picture obvious and extreme candidate, that they weren't comfortable voting for and the Democrats had sort of done, whether was incumbency in the case of of kelly or with some of the nominees were just either vanilla enough. Just like you know not now,

not so extreme on their own that the swing voters just did they they saw The magazines is there as the stream. So republicans when the house by boat, two points nationally. What do you think the typical swing voter in a swing district who cast their ballot for republican house candidate, expects from a geo PE house Worryingly, member voted for well in a swing disk. because I'll tell you what interesting is that right? There are these different sections of the voters right. There are a very bunch of republicans. Let's call them may be trump person and a lot of them. One to tackle inflation rate bay, they had economic issues on their minds. They think binds a disaster, and you know that the supply chain and cove Id like that's what they cared about. What there is this other

always trumpery or even some mix the people where they do want the hunter by an investigation. And of course so so the thing is why they signed up that's right. You know, I was just doing a focus group and was just I was walking around around here and our way- and I was listening to one of the groups and- and it was just to time from voters- and that While the moderator was asking about the the house fight over over the speakership and they were saying half the group was like. Yes, they should be fighting over this like. I want them to take a stand, and it's important to understand that for like the crazy side that I don't even want to say that there's a crazy side in a non crazy said before the crazy aside. There is a base of voters who wants that chaos and who wants the investigations with the swing voters in a swing district. They cared about the economic issues and, and they cared about a check on Biden to some degree, but not in the like hunter Biden, laptop

sense: do you think the speakers race, antics or mccarthy handing over the keys of the house with delight marjorie they were green and Paul. Ghosts are getting that has broken through to vote yours now in any real or is at all just noise. At this now it's all noise, yeah I mean. I so again I was listening to this group and, like they kind of knew, that there was a sort of chaos and people they either interpreted. It is like stupid inside the bio waste after they didn't care about, or they were glad somebody put up a fight against the rhinos, but I you know, I think that when it comes to voters on the inside the but wish to have one of the stories, I always tell from the day that the new york times had Kevin Mccarthy dead to rights when he said that he he lied like they. He said he was got. You wanted trump,

oh yeah, right and then, and then he came when they said that he came out in line he put out a statement said. I never said that and then they release the teapot and bright and decisions that goes up in flames world talking about it. We can leave it. Mccarthy people are asking me, is Mccarthy toes. I had a focus group that night. What are you guys? about what happened with mccarthy, and it's just like blank stares. You know like nobody's listening. No one cares so no the internet and fights now when it comes to like the debt ceiling fight, though you know when it has an impact and they can't govern, and when things are getting shut down, parks whatever, then it will matter, but I don't think this stuff is, is yeah hitting voters will so you said, I have conducted some focus groups since the mid terms war, it's on voters' minds since the midterms. So it's been really fascinating to watch two time. Trump voters start to not break with trump might start to look for alternatives to try and the wind to time trumpeter to to interrupt

but that the twice sixteen twenty twenty folks they and ended it all comes down to elect ability. Slight. These guys are tired of losing and it's interesting as they did their silica tacit admission, the donald trump, lost. He lost in twenty go in for a lot of them. That I mean I've done focus groups upon focus, groups where always more than half the group's thinks that the election was stolen but there's still tired of loosening like after Would you like the main thing that has changed as they want a winner and so even during the general this committee. I was starting to see more more people and there are two things happening at once: one they were being reminded how much baggage donald trump has just like how much weight he is to carry for them and the other was round us. Answers were starting to have

It's boomlet, and so they were starting to say. You know. I just really think we should look for somebody else. Somebody with less baggage from santas is pretty cool. I've been seeing a lot of him. He seems great, ah and sensed the twenty two that has like really accelerated and they want somebody who can win. Rhonda Santos is the name that comes up with a bullet every single time without being asked, and people just think that he has. that they call him trump not on steroids. Was my favorite one that somebody said, but its generally like trump, with a brain trump without the baggage. You know somebody like trumpet who you know, upswing voters might like, and so this question of elect ability and wanting to win just started the loom so large for them since twenty two. How much do you think rhonda centres is like a blank canvas for these voters? Were there just so

pinning all their hopes and dreams on a candidate who can win verses like how much they actually know about dissent is just because they consume a lot of like right wing media. Yet it's it's it's a little more than blank canvas, but their relationship to him is very short. Right? So what they have seen of him is he is on legacy. You, too, like yelling at teenagers and masks or like yelling at this new year, leg, elegant local reporters, and they think this guy's a fighter, and this guy is like trump. But you know without all the tweeting and the other thing that so interesting about two santa's is the way Florida has become the mecca of just in the imaginations republicans florida. where all the great things happened. It's where everything state open during cove id. It's where woke ism,

to die it's where the culture wars are being won by their side, and so I and it's funny you hear people talk about it and I went and looked it up because I was so struck by how many people were talking about him, winning it by twenty points like it was this cause people do still think of florida as a swing state jeb bush, I think, won by eleven points and then by thirteen points like these, even those governor. But but you know the first round, a santas race was close, and so people have thought about it as a swing state, and so when they see the santas just like crushing and dominating that's what they want to happen nationally right now

but they don't know that much really about rhonda santas. Do you think dissenters runs for her? I have not thought he runs for sure. Some part of it, though, is that we're in this really weird so donald trump announces so early, and these guys, who are governors, whether your young can I've you're too santa's. You have a legislative session like a really important one. Young couldn't even begin to do it until may, and so I guess, I'm sort of way trying to see if the way that it shapes up is that, like then, there's people who don't have anything going on right now it may be hayley or make my pants alike. Then looking my impair their right, do they get an early and is there kind of like a a primary happens that they cannot kicks off with a group of people, and everyone sees how trunk does and shakes out in the investigations happen, and then they sort of wait for the heavy hitters to come in and around us anticipates, and I don't think it's a sure thing that he does. He know he is young, I just among which struck by the fact that,

he's a he's, a he's like forty four years old, it's so weird to me. He does not have to run head to head against donald trump, and you can hear voters grapple with this and the groups like I don't know how he'll do what he's with trump and and it's also it's like unclear- does trump even debate. Treat things like a normal primary it just such a risk, but I do think the donor community and d they do the if you're around a santas. If I was watching these focus groups, I do stop me from running like it's just so many voters are tank. You know who I love her. I wonder why I love as this guy even if you meet for its while any politician has to have a huge ego to be politician and but Then, if you like, on the lower end of that scale, you heard that many voters to about you and people in the party start telling you I mean like look. I was with obama senate when he was like I'm not gonna run two thousand and eight and then like Harry red talks to a bunch of other centre. Talk to me

It goes in the book tour and he sees the cra in it like it becomes something that's hard to push away. It dies. My only question if you talked to sort of reporter sam down in florida are people who know round santa is one thing they'll tell you, though, that he's very surly and he's not like a great politician, and so I guess my if I'm him, the question is: how self aware am I do I do. I think I am a good enough politician to step onto the stage and meet now the very high expectations that people have put on me if he thinks guess he'll do it. If he's worried, he might wait for more years until donald trump, not there to any other republican candidates, come up in focus groups besides two cents and trump from Republicans yeah they do. You know it's funny. How often it is either women or there are very, very few candidates of color right. So it's like tim, Scott, Nicky, Hayley, Christine nome and I think,

because all the white old men kind of run together in people's heads and so and there are there- are other people and they kept on and I'll tell you who they do not want at all is mike pence yeah, I mean you should hear so funny that might I get so we reporters calling me being like we all my pencil. We think they are and like. Why? Don't you I've met almost no voters who they make an audible groaning. Is when you bring me my own, you know a segment of them wanted to hang him right. This is what I always say to people I'm like. If you're MIKE pence, can you go to a trump rally without security? No, you can't like dunno? How you're get the votes to win a nomination revel in primary? That's right! You know one of the focus groups I so here One of the things was interesting as I was getting so many people. Saying they wanted somebody other than trumped run. Yet we basically convened to groups of people where trumpet for with people who had trump is very high, favourable.

We all know about the primaries that it comes down to whatever trump's plurality is right. You get a fractured field, is what we saw happen in ah in sixteen like do. Are there twenty percent of the parties at thirty percent of the party that will always trump yours, and so I convened two groups and of the of the of people who have really high fever there like tramper die? But when you about two santas in some of the others. What's clear is that they don't know that much about them at all, rightly trumps thing it's early he's running on name id right like their attachment to tromp, Similarly, shallow in some ways like ice recall them from perdiccas. That's what we were looking for, but even with them, they just the trumps the when they ve ever seen fight, but if somebody else proves to them that they can fight that same sort of ridiculous when they could be interested over this. This is somewhat

when thinking about how would you advise er, rond de santis or another republican candidate like that to run against donald trump, because my first instinct was like you gotta, throw a punch yet right, and especially if trump throws a punch at you, you gotta throw a punch back, but then I thought about like how high his favorability has to even among voters who are looking for someone else besides trump cards. I wonder if it's a situation where you really have to tread carefully, because if you start throwing it is a trump van you're hitting a guy that your potential voters might like yeah. So I mean I think that a lot of it is

you gotta? You gotta say you love trump, you gotta say we owe so much to trump. You gotta pay operate as president, but the thing about, and- and this is voters are starting to get a whiff of this. You know Biden when people talk about Biden. His age is like the number one thing that people said about why he shouldn't run again or why republicans talk about him being see now trump's only four years younger than he is ah, and I think that there is a way to sort of gold watch, Donald trump to be like old man. You are the best and you know it. We just we love you so much, but we are it's it's time.

The hang it up or like you know, and we used to do the five decades of service for John Mccain used it as just a way to sorta like like politely but not, but pretty forcefully talk about his age. So many awards for all the great ways he's made america great but se, and we really need someone who can win. We need a next generation because that and I mean the electability piece I just couldn't be sometimes with groups- you know you just things are very modeled like this. Just as clear a signal as I've heard where people like I want someone who can win. I want someone, that's when voters don't hate and just think tromp people are too out on him de I noticed the and the new said a trump. Is planning. Now, I'm getting back on twitter. There already like work. Shopping has potential. First, we know what the whole truth. Social thing is lately, but do you think that that him being on twitter, back on facebook. If they let him back on facebook, you did that helps or hurts them in a republican primary. I think it hurts well

I think it hurts him in the general yeah. I look at one of the things that strikes me about the santas, and I this is why it's hard to tell exactly what how good of a politician he has, but one thing because he doesn't weigh in on lots of stuff, like one of dissenters is actually, I think things that I'm starting to notice about him is his strategic silence. Choices are awfully good. Donald trump doesn't do any of that, and ah he's under all these investigations. I look. I think it depends on how the media reacts to them. We're so deep in trump now that all the things that we used to believe were true right, where people would kind of set the news cycle by donald trump's tweets. Is that still true? I wonder how many people come to a trump rally as he starts to hold his rallies like? Are they as big as they used to be? Can he still fill a stadium? I don't know the answer to that. I'm not saying he definitely can

and but look the bloom is off the road? You can't be new twice, and so I don't know how triumphant this return will be and also how how matter weakening member he used to like to the tweets in the wake of my head would explode. All of them. Are we still exp Over two hundred berwin laughing at donald trump also think something happened, even in twenty twenty at his rallies versus twenty. Sixteen that allowed people come round which is like Twenty six any had a message right. It was like an anti establishment, populous measures, plenty racism and xenophobia in there, but was also like this me against the establishment thing by twenty twenty he's. there and he so fucking online. That he's mentioning Conner firstly on the stump that no one but like five percent of the people who really closely follow palate- and right wing politics understand what he sang. Naming the fbi characters and in the mean no one knows that shit, and I was like this guy. He just doesn't have the sick, I noticed it and twenty and

I think now, four years later, he's way off and deepen I mean you always have to sort of live in the fox news, cinematic universe in order to like completely understand what's going on, but it's not that. Actually, I think that one of the things that also comes to with voters that, even if the I agree with him ass. He has something happened with the election and nothing was fair and democrats cheat. They are tired of talking about that. You like they want, talk about Joe Biden. They wanted to about you know all there. All the Democrats failed policies and if Donald trump continues to whole rallies, where he talks about the twenty election being stolen, kelly and Conway had this vague sort of silly bees in the new york times recently. But there is one line that I thought was was was good and it was like. The voters. Dont want channel, your grievances donald trump. They want you to channel their growth is, and that is correct. You know each other there did. It cannot just be about him anymore.

and I mean it's always been about him, but he has at least been able to fool people into thinking like yeah you're in These are my enemies and I'm going to fight them on behalf of you you, but you just said something to that. I think about the establishment, which is you don't watching the the the triangle of marjorie taylor, green, Kevin, mccarthy and donald trump, as they work that speakership fight, that is the mega establish. Right now, everybody kept saying like the twenty people were them, where the hard core caucus carta smells like now the two hundred are the mega establishment, like so many of the people. The Kevin Mccarthy bore the people who vote not to certify the election, who say that the election was stolen. They fell in line with donald trump eyed. The idea that that was a that was the the chaos caucus versus some kind of governing wing or moderates was an insane frame. Idle called moderates anymore, I'm calling them like the house. Members

we're sitting in Biden districts yet was as they can go there I mean there are some moderate people. There are some governing people Leon, there's not a wing now, there's no way anywhere Joe Biden, so I can't do anything, but his age he can do very little about the macro economic conditions. What do you think he can do in the white house can do over the next two years to maximize his chances of winning and twenty four, since it seems like Indications that he's running and doesn't seem like he's. Gonna have a primary challenger. I miss buzz. That could change but doesn't seem like it. If you we're advising him on how to keep the republican leaning voters. He won in two thousand and twenty in the fold. What would you tell him? You know it used to be that Joe Biden, the idea of Joe Biden was, was running because he was the only one that could beat donald trump and I don't think that's true anymore, and I think that just about any Republican who's not named donald

europe, will beat Joe Biden. I am you know, TIM or french and miller. Has the story about how he knew job was gonna lose when there Some polling came back in the number one thing people didn't like about JEB bush was this last name was, bush and he knew then because you can't change that your last name is washing, like you just said, Biden can't change how old he is and he's dead was only going up. I mean it Look, I am I'm a job. I stan, neither right and saved america. I think that he did so. He pulled democrats today. there. He got everybody to do this amazing thing where they dropped out and endorse them. He he eat is great and and and the fact that I'm saying that if you told me that you know eight or nine years ago, I think but like he was the only person that could beat trump and he's another person who

there's all the awards, and he should also say hey early and soon that you know he's done his part and it's time for somebody else to take over who is not My harris and may have a hen, and the Democrats out my my big concern is that where we, because what we asked, what my advice would be his leg, you can't make this dislike. He could say he's running and six months from now still decide not to run. I like he could do that. I dont think just as he says he is now automatically means that he definitely is but he can wait too long. He can wait to honour and there's nobody else. They can. I say about the white house thanks and I understand why they do. that there's like there's a waiting in the wings issue which is like I I we talked about when we were like math wilderness. we're the wilderness focus groups. I remember Saying that, like a lot of focus groups, Democrats didn't have a bent and more, going about other candidates. On the back, and I know

that too, I was after them, terms as a number of canada, only one in purple state democratic chance that I think like maybe not in twenty four but in twenty eight I look around. I see a lot of great young democrats, but I You wonder- and I have some of the same fears about Biden and I have some of the same police about him too. I think he saved america. I love the man he's a very, very kind. There has been a good present but like the age thing is a concern, but then I look around. I never unite hugged group, but the sight of it who else wells wells can do like, but in twenty four I don't know yeah I mean that s analysis get hurt,

it was was, was pretty dead on. I agree, though, about the bench and I don't know I look, I think, if ronda santas as a second term governor, can get through his legislative session and then announce soaking, gretchen whitmer. As far as I'm concerned, like Josh shapiro can't do and look I I don't know the Democrats ah as well as you guys do. So. You probably spend time with Jared polis and a bunch of these other people, but I would say that the the bench has been growing and because of the poor performance in twenty two. There are just more people ought to look at, and you know, there's Mitch Landrieu still hanging there. Some of my so my moderate centrists are still kicking around that. I think I could, but it would take Biden Biden would have to do it himself like he would have to make the affirmative choice. I don't think like Gavin newsom can do

in the primary and randomly or somehow I don't think that's it. I mean I do think. Having done some focus groups, not nearly as many as you, but it was like you ask people: do you want Joe Biden to run again? All these were Biden voters, none of them wanted your button to run again. I couldn't find one bright. Then he asked them about trump. They all can't stand trump. Even the few trump voters were like. I don't want him to run again and then my made them. Peck and Kosovo was trump Biden again and you do get more. People were like Biden, so I think that match up you can get lie. Biden thinks that he's the one who can beat him but if it's anyone other than tromp. I I see how to challenge I mean I just think. If got some energetic six eight year old. Those economic. Does anybody under the age of seventy is going to provide a really stark contrast. It's gonna be difficult and I'll be right. There fight for Joe I'd, but it could be more of an uphill challenge than if its donald trump ethic yeah

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Sir levy martinez? Who is here to take us through this game? Hello, thank you for having me and thank you for being ok with calling at that job. dan. What have you heard about gas stoves this week? Just give us the quick summary that I better hang onto mine as tightly as possible, because Joe Biden coming to get it probably with his seven thousand iris age, you can't see it from wins conversation, but I'm currently chain to mine That sounds about right. Let's take a lesson to a mash up chris haze tweeted. This way White house is now attempting to ban all gas ovens, safety safety, Your family dinner is about to get lot less. Tasty americans knock not zan, for this is not a story,

I like this? One couldn't be banned soon nobody's going to tell me I can cook with gas texas, congressman ronny Jackson. Jackson. Writing in part quote I'll, never give up my gas stove. If the maniacs in the white house come from my stove, they could pry it from my cold dead, hands, strong feelings, feeling cold. Dad hands Were you all that outraged of more confused the anything? Yes, let's talk about what actually happened? so this all started earlier in january, when a government official at the consumer product safety commission gave an interview in Bloomberg where he talked about how considering a ban on gas those because there is a hidden hazard, new went on to talk about How there's their considering any opt? because they want to make sure we just have things that are safe in our homes. He was prompted. I recent studies. I found that gas stoves actually met some pollutants, such as nitrogen, dioxide and methods,

and those do pose some serious health risk for americans, for example. They increase: asthma rates among children and dementia and older americans. Ah sluts paused there do. Did you have any idea that gas stoves were that dangerous zero? yeah me. Neither I mean I would have guessed that they contribute something to global warming because gas yeah, but I had no idea what the health effects yeah, meaning there Dan did. You know I had a few, but I had not thought about it and they won some explained to me that you're goin to bird method in your house when you could yet and how to make sense, frank about it. Yet can a terrifying, so the sepia see followed up to now. fi that their only looking to make gassed of safer

two days later, they added a statement saying to be clear, were not looking to ban gas stoves and the sea piazzi has no proceeding to do so. I also think that I think I heard this, but even if they did, it would be a ban on new gas stoves yeah, they don't know anyone who has a gas stove there. They were never even floating the possibility that if currently have a guest of. You can no longer have that stuff here. They literally can never go. Your house and no one is suggesting that they're, just letting us know that these dangerous, and maybe we can consider Other s, if call me to your home, we're gonna, take your gun ass to actually obviously a guest of the bottom of the list, ma much heavier to take out of her yet, and I can't tell why the cps Isla gave this inner, readable and bird. I can't tell why they made this news. That does feel like the biggest unforced error here, like that,

was a mistake, I think, but I am curious if that was on the white house message. It didn't make a lot of sense to me so that the consumer product safety commission to just flow to ban on Casto yeah, no one needed to do that day, but I'm wondering when's the last time you heard about what the consumer product safety commission was up to like. How do you think this was caught by so many served as well? I is apparent of children, I'm like deeply away air everything, the sepia seal. It we can recall scares you get notifications for those things. Interesting, though, thou our people who watch it alive and pay attention. those are. People who want to keep dangerous products away from their children. There is also obviously a group of people who troll the government for ways to find fake. Outraged. You drive clicks and

I've already, which I think probably on this one came: um yeah yeah, it's usually the flavour of this is usually the government's coming to take. Something fundamentally america, and away from you? Yes, oh and we're going to get into that first, I want to talk about. The outrage of republicans, of course, went into a frenzy. over this, and I know both of you were pretty plugged in to what they are saying. So I want to quote you on some of the ways they spoke this week are already yellow with awkward. If you I'll pop quiz, which of these was not done by republic controls this week, a did republicans tape themselves to a gas stove in protest. Be, did republicans, run all burners and sit in their houses. Inhaling the gas at a bit of a point or see did republic and start Sally Don't try on me aprons with gas stoves to fund rays.

I know I know that the last one happened, I'm going to say that they didn't turn on the stoves and inhale the fumes, and they did turn on the stoves in a hail of fumes. I think it was the first trick question all of those happen. This way big, wait. They really and held the view they really do. I feel tat was now and again on his right arm. Troll Dan, you are planned. Air lock in writing aids seven week to take a fake losing streak. So I've been, I heard, of a trading like rocky over here. What I will say this, the the dont tread on anything that would, I think, to santa yes rule that out yeah and just a fun fact. Ninety two percent of All stoves in florida are electric gas, so it is not even a yes red state, real american phenomena. It is a blue coastal ultra lib thing, yeah! That's why that's why we have gas? Yes, exactly who to

did imagine a world where all tortillas are heated microwave. We must take a stand against this insanity I will be joining my colleagues this week to introduce legislation that stops the stove war from happening. You know to either that feels very ted crew, is there I would save us. It was represented. My garcia, who I truly have never heard of. That's, though, he's the one who capitan beaten. He he's, though, he's one walking around with their respective mrs Mathieu, but I want next. on who went on info wars to say literally, every one prefers a gas stove and that regular in gas, those are quote part of the globalist agenda for the green new deal and the most dangerous being far entire planet and all of humanity who and enforce to say that the sickening forwards goes steve, baden, close, it's an obvious one,

representative maggots, marjorie, taylor, green our new oversight committee exam I and one for you, finally, which Republican tweeted the federal government. Has no business telling american families how to cook their dinner. I can tell you the last thing that If I ever leave my house is the gas stove that we cook on, though that's Joe manchin yup, it was a trick question. It was all us joe yeah. It was Joe manchin side note. Do you think you can have a gas stove on a houseboat? I do not think you can. I don't know about lisbon, gas where's, the gasoline roma, unless you just have a little tank, maybe guessing yeah. I think it's a gas stove on the super yachts below deck, so I don't know how that applies in this situation here, but also feels a little dangerous to have a gas tank on a on a boat. But how did John? How do you think the boat moves? yeah

It's not just. My group has a right now to fail, but filberts on it wasn't just republicans who freaked out kind of every one got involved in this allison roman. The controversial shaft tweeted an andrew ovens Ivan induction stove by choice. Ask me anything just small side? Please humor me, I'm deeply curious do either You know why out and roman is controversial yeah. You know something here and yet we are here for when I don't wanna we'd hasn't about. Let it be known that we now I cordially glover was involved somehow democratic, representative reuben guy Tweeted hot, take keep the gas stove and get rid of the air friar. Only urban a lead us use air friars do either via their fires. No, I really I haven't inst apothecary

it's too in our fire, so maybe that is more or less yeah rather cooking food. Good food quickly is not least its practical and guy goes. Wife responded that tweet saying we have an air friar She'd Novi did the cooking why, during their dirty laundry and finally, my favorite tweet, by communion rob Delaney who tweeted you can have If my gas, when you pry it from my cold dead ass, so let's bring it back and answer the question that we started with is Joe Biden trying to take your guest now don't sound like doesn't sound like it is in some ways is he's not and it it made me remember. Some, like other controversy, we ve seen like this recently. I remember last year conservatism

really upset about liberals, ruining hamburgers and Joe Biden being called the hamburger. Why do you think they latch on to outrages like this? You know because it speaks to a fundamental fear. The american people have. The government is going to be too big into scary and take away things that are valuable conservatism in republicanism is grievance politics and it is about. It- is about fear of changed You may change, seem scary, and so that is liberal. These wanted your hammer way: they're gonna your guns away. They want to change your way of life, and that has superman herbaceous euphemisms one when you represent a declining sheriff american population. You need you, keep your shrieking base at a fever pitch at all times and in this media environment driven by cable and facebook outrage is the corner of the room. It is why it drives traffic. It's what

causes liberals to react, and so there is a marriage between republic. Politicians, who want an angry base and right wing, The figures who want to use outrage to get filthy rich. Absolutely. I have a twist at the ending of all of this, but I'm curious. If there's anything either of you want to say about this myth that we haven't covered yet I think we've nailed it sweet dan, nothing else. You saw on your extensive research on alright, while the twist is that the inflation reduction act actually includes rebates for households switching from gas to electric stoves. So not only is Joe Biden not taking your gas stove he's trying to pay you money for buying electric stove people that turn in their gas stoves and upgrade to an electric one will earn a rebate of eight hundred

forty dollars cash back. Unfortunately, when you try to give back your stove, they will inject you with a microchip. Then that's how come. I will force you to read beloved deep cuts. We ve cut from tat. one, and I just want to end by saying republicans and all politicians please on take away our right to choose how to cook our dinners beg you will thank you for helping us bus fat. Myth thanks for having me and thank you too, Sarah long well for joining us. Everyone have a great we can and we will talk to you next week by everyone. Pod save america is a crooked media production. The executive producer is Michael Martinez, r c producer is Andy. Gardener Bernstein are produced are highly amused and olivia Martinez its mixed in edited by andrew chat, kyle segment in charlot, Linda, sound, engineered. The shop thinks the highly key for hours fourth sandy gerard anti tat injustice, how for production, support to our digital

in a Phoebe bradford. My look him in Amelia monday. Our episodes are up his videos at youtube. Dot, com, slash pod, save america. The EU.