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I welcome the buds in America. I'm John Favour. I'm dyin driver on These pod Dan talks are reverend. William barber about the poor peoples campaign and the moral March on Washington this weekend before that, we are very fortunate to have a guess who is with us today who you may have heard before on this pod and on the wilderness she's current working on a book called the some of us what racism costs everyone and how we can prosper together. She's the chair of the Board of directors of cod, of change. Heather Magee is here: Heather welcome back to the show hands,

so glad to be here, it's great to have you. We're going to cover the latest on police reform between trumps. Active order, the republican bill that was introduced Wednesday and the proposals from Japan. And the Democrats, but we also that, after a few weeks of protests and with June thirteenth tomorrow, we could take a step back today. Talk about some of the ways to make sure that this moment becomes a more durable transformational political movement. You know, which is that I know, is a topic we can. Out in about an hour, but first a few. Quick housekeeping oats check out this week's positive the world. Where Tommy and Ben talk about a routing press freedoms in the Philippines. Crumbs failure to get any concessions from North Korea two years after Singapore Summit and how the protests against police brutality and systemic racism are playing out in France. Also Dan, you have something to tell us about a new pod, save America miniseries! Yes!

joining forces with all of our best friend unless the master Monaco for a three part series to help. It splain. The process by which president candidates picked or vice presidential nominee, how they do it, why they do it and why it matters. It is a three positive american miniseries? You will get on this feed that will do start on Friday June. Twenty six excellent. Excited for that. And then you guys are going to be able to tell us who he's gonna pick by the end of it. With this is to be very clear. This is not about who we think Dubai. Should take, because we are now in the prediction game. It's good. It's sort, in all seriousness, inspired a lot by the series that Tommy did on Iowa. To help take this. Very important after behind the scenes process and explain to people what it means and a level of detail that we just sensible can't do on a normal, positive mercosur. Excellent one sided

Let's start with what's happening with police reform in Washington right now, Senate Republicans introduced a bill on Wednesday that they want to start debating next week, basically creates new incentives for police departments to meet higher standards and new reporting requirements on the use of doubly force and no knock warrants but it doesnt banjo called it doesnt ban, no, not warrants it doesn't, anyway limit the ability of police officers to use excessive force, and it doesn't touch well if I M unity which protects police officers from being held accountable if they use excessive force. Donald Trump announced a similar set of fairly toothless reforms, view executive order on Tuesday in a speech where he made no mention of racism at all, repeatedly praised police and said that, Americans want law and order, they demand law and order. They may not say it. They may not be talking about it, but that's what they want. Some open, don't even know that's what they want, but that's what they want

though they don't even know they want it. They know they don't want it, but they want for they wanna bade the Heaven If it seems to me that both trumps executive orders and him Scots Annabel are given Republicans and opportunity to say there Something will actually doing as little as possible to reform policing but I did see Van Jones on CNN, whose done a lot of work on criminal justice issues say the tree YO is a good thing, because it raises the floor on reform. What do you think listen. I think this shows that the movement for black lives is winning am, I think, you know that you know. First, they fight you than them ridicule you, and then they join you and that's obviously, what's happening right there, trying very hard to say we ve done something we hear at just as they did on criminal justice reform, because you'd now got a multi racial by partisan.

Majority Terry, and desire to get something that what is important for us as progress is enforced. Movement leaders is to continue to signals, are the same people who are outraged right now exactly what the solution looks like, because Washington's Gonna do it She just gonna get. You know Washington going to Washington this, which is created. Our debates that doesn't ever get so about they're going to you do an executive order that has no teeth they're going to let you know have so many black people in the rose garden and it may even be some victims, family members and that will be hard, but ultimately the changes going to have the state and local level, and that's where you really starting to see some more meaningful reform and that's where it really important just to keep up the pressure. Then why do you think Trump continues to up his rhetoric, around law and order and his silent majority tweets, which has been too

never storm about lately when there is no evidence so far in any of the polling from the last several weeks that this is working for him. Well, John, I know its not working, you know it's not working. Heather knows this network thanks, but I'm not sure Trump knows it's not working right like he does not believe the polls. He went and hired a person known specifically as America's worst political pollster, to explain to him why in and pulled at work, and so I think part of this is, he always thinks he's right, so he can understand a world where his strategy is not working, but it's also This is who trop ears like. I was struck in that speech. By how tromp. As someone who does released,

returns doesnt respond subpoenas, doesn't respond. Congress is sort of the most transparent present american history because when he was reading the parts about George Floyd in other african Americans who were killed by cops- and there was no emotion right- he could have been reading arrested, four be still, but when he got along order part he you can feel the enthusiasm like. This is who he is always always been. We ve known this since the central part, five and so he just peaches being as authentic south and everything we should read a lot of political strategy into it. I think he also has. He has a six to one. I think fundraising advantage and his own coffers, not to mention you know the gap between the Republican Party and the Democratic Party and all the different Super Pacs, and he knows that no nine out of the top ten most active new

slash activism propaganda outlets on Facebook. Our conservative, I think he feels like this- is gonna, be a slow burn like if I just keep it Put the message in the way: I can middle, is gonna tire of this. We're gonna be able to define this issue in the end, and so I agree with you that now. This is who he is, but I also think hee hee has a lot of faith in his ability to control the narrative of the message in American history is on his side, ripe, Ganis, ads I think that I think that is right. If you were to pick why, given that the positions currently in what the strategy, is morally repugnant as it is, that would have the best chance of success form it's probably the one he is choosing and he's having a boat ways, ready, can point to this executive order and they did something and banjo liked it, and then he can say, but my rhetoric is just the same,

I also think he knows it is only play right like he. I mean the culture warrior end and you know gone with white identity. Politics is really that's worked for him so far. It's all. He really knows how to do He knows that trying to appeal to any kind of moderate voters to voters of color too people in the suburbs? It's it's going to come off as inauthentic and sort of get fat because that's like dance had. That's not! is fundamental, and so he feels like I'm just gonna go with. What Got me here and he doesn't really know of another strategy, back to the Senate Mcconnell now is basically daring, Democrats to block the Republican Senate bill asking if they want to make a law or just make a point and they that they have. You know they have a talking point near that have Democrats Block police reform in the Senate than that somehow a win for Republicans, say they tried, but Democrats blocked it

do you think either the Democrats should negotiate to get something past or should they just reject? This is a start. So is the republican plan was going to save lives? I would say: maybe should negotiate and do something. That's sad. It's not going to it's not going to change fundamentally the amount. Or tenor of the police presence in black and brown neighborhoods it's not going to take funding away from police and oriented towards the kind of quality of life investments that you know, white folks in the in the suburbs have been able to depend on them. Their own safety and quality of life

and it's not going to hold bad repeat offender excessive force using white supremacist, cops of which you know, there's some in every state, I'm sure accountable and let families hold them accountable. So for that, then I dont think you squander what is a watershed historical moment of as multi racial by partisan uprising in every state in the country, from tuscan is that a salt Lake City I'm on something that is not going to change the gate, and I think that you know well

we have to spend our energy on is defining the win in ways that were actually change people's lives and save people's lives and save people's futures and then fighting like hell for it. Then what do you think? What would you do? I think the task that had put on this is exactly right, which is that if there was a deal that could save lives than regardless of how close worthy of actual Democrats obligation to try to achieve that it. But that is not once on the table here, and I think you know this is certainly a conversation that should be led by the democratic leader should listen to the activists We ve been in the street and I have been working on this long before the mobilization of the last few weeks. I ain't you know. I think that the way this will play out illegal what Democrats do, as I say they decide they take. They listen, apposite

market, it wasn't a heather and they say when we're going to reject this all right. We're not going too readily accept the invitation to play lead role in Miss Connell Kabuki Fitter and they blah blah right and then what will happen is the Mitchell staff will spin a lot of credulous capital reporters about how much common isn't that he has checkmated the Democrats by forcing them subject to something that happens in the well off the Senate when no one is watching and that won't matter right. I don't think that there is some play on the floor, the Senate, that is going to absolve a party that has enabled a racist president and you know, run on explicitly white nationals agenda that is going to somehow make them work west. The war for the situation we are in just because Brian shots blocked a most new proceed to attend Skype like that does not seem like an AIDS

It's gonna have real impact politically, What will have a real impact politically is the stuff that we can control, which is what the Democrats do and watch reminders and this week the liberal group's sand a letter to the Biden campaign. This is anchored myself like dream defenders me handy and our revolution and working families Party say we You just stop talking about community policing, because I mean just think about it. Do No community policing is not what the summer house in an order, wealthy suburbs out They just have a good quality of life in enough money to meet their needs right. They have housing and good schools and safe streets with you, no lights and good in restructure, and so there is a real cause by due to change his response to this moment and stop

I'm putting basically what he said was we need to fully on the programme that we put out in the crime. Now the Clinton White House- and you know clearly policing is not something that everybody it over police communities. Really what people want modal shift in the priorities out. You know the local state government spending in there communities I'm until it's really important. I think for organizations that are. Representing you know class Brandon Black folks to be able to have some influence on our stand and given how much I'm campaign needs are up, Yes, I want to I wanted to talk about that so in a clearly by and has moved to a better place on analysing and criminal justice reform. Yeah, then he was throughout most of his career, even throughout most of the primary right right. Oh he's

is impression is, is embraced. Some reforms he's called furnished, The use of force, standard, more diverse police departments. He's right is embraced so the Democrats bill bent on chokehold no knock warrants reform, qualified immunity but, like you said, he's got this calling for funding for community policing has explicitly come out against defending the police so I mean how much should activists sort of expect to get him somewhere better by new member and from the binding perspective, but I wonder, is it he's not going to wake up to Morrow or maybe anytime, between now and November, and say ok now for defending the police. But what could he embrace? it would meet the moment, but also be authentic, two or at least realistic about who he is yeah. I mean you know, one of the key things to remember is that the police union really row. He know Joe Biden,

grandma and that's a really helpful for me. You think about all of these provisions and local policing contracts that give such immunity and lack of accountability to police officers- and you know me that sort of code of silence. That's it was really at the table and oftentimes. We like for labour unions to be the table in writing bills. About workers, but now in those workers have guns, and so you know the question now is: what can Biden do? I do think that Joe Biden is a weather and he does recognise that the weather has shifted, and I think it is. I always believe you know that the left hand less power than we think we do, and you know if our goals are important enough, then they're going to be hard to accomplish right, and so I think it's incumbent upon the

we met to. Do the work between now and November to use this incredible amount of attention that these you have to educate the public and keep moving the needle people are open, who have never thought about something like this They, my police, talk. Ok, what would that look like? And there are examples, rights, the city of The new Jersey, Anal disbanded its police department, that country of Georgia disbanded its police department, as it was just so corrupt and started from ground up. You know we're about to see what's gonna happen in Minneapolis and so I think it's really important for them. It incumbent upon the movement and democratic leadership actually to keep up the education of the public about how much we spend

on police department I mean in New York City. It is six billion with a b dollars a year is just like an astronomical figure and we ve got to educate people so that Joe Biden, whose who is going to want to seek a compromise, is always going to want to be somewhere slightly left of center is going to find out a little train totally shifted under his feet by the time to to really legislate, hopefully with the democratic majority in January. Then what do you think? You know how the Biden campaign can be. As socially right now. They're, probably they know they're looking at their lead there, it's probably making them a bit more cautious, they're, probably thinking to themselves. Well, he has he has moved a bit from where he was they like as Heather's aim it. He sort of always. To be. The centre of where the party is

and so he will move based on that. But what do you think we can sort of hope from from from Joe Biden on us I think all of that assessment is right, and I think it is the right of these groups to continue to put pressure on job. I never democratic. Later right. They lay Joe Biden Monopoly democratic nominee without black voters, and he will not be prisoners states about black voters and these groups should make sure that their that their agenda gets a hearing, and you know it. Would not be realistic to think that Joe Biden is going to adopt everything in that letter by they move em on some thanks and I think potentially they can replacing part may be the easiest place to move, even though that is a programme that your by You ve been very closely associated with their weed out at sea, it is a very, very reasonable, and rational request. That would be that is actually consistent with some of the other positions. The Joe Biden has adopted two not put more money

in a police departments at this moment, and so I think they can. And should push that. The thing that I would hope would be that Biden would sit down with these people have a conversation. And I think that like that like because like we should think about this, like we have a lot of work to do to win this election. But if I was Joe Biden has. I think that this is the beginning of a governing partnership. Let's have these conversations now, because we are going to have to work together to solve these problems come January and, like they're, very you know. The first group on that list is black voters matter, and that is better. That's Latasha Brown hoop. It was very few people on this point. Ass, who is as reasonable and rational person is there? Is you just talked about? A lot of issues are there's a couple weeks ago and legs like that at that, big good conversation for German have so I hope they have that it is not simply

Maybe this is either doesn't get ignored or is an exchange of letters to the key himself could who has potentially very good in that conversation explained his point of view and I think he will listen to them, which is that you know the thing: was or an oasis but Joe Biden as he listens. Posit America is broadly bye by honey. You probably know honey is Paypal's new money, saving shopping tool. You guys know that, but You know it does more than just automatically apply coupons to your car, only thought It's a way to save and get free gift cards to some of your favorite stores. This is why our yes, how outworks sherry I d agent has? How does it work up here? We go again You just shop like normal, and then you let honey apply. The best discount to your car. You gotTa Annie, do lists, continue, ended everybody with that

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slash crooked, blue apron, feed your soul. I was thinking what you said Heather about truth. The obligation for of democratic leaders and activists deserve do a lot of education on this too, because you I mean that the polling is moving around all over the place which, when they talk about in a second- but you know when you ask people about defending the police- are cutting police funding. You know it's. It's not that popular. Yet when you you know data for progress, we talked about this couple weeks ago polled. Would you support an alternative, two policing. Where sort of unarmed folks, went and responded to mental health calls and things like that, and it was like fifty eight percent of people support You know, and some of this I wonder if it's about positive, framing this in a way that is at least get majority support within the party within the

Eric and public, and many least, then you can go to someone like Joe Biden and say you should be for this. Most people are for this yeah. I think that's absolutely ray. I mean I think you know at this moment when Americans watched the euro, slow motion, execution of defenceless man for eight hundred and twenty six seconds rightly so- corporate Amerika White Americans, most people of color who are not lack arsonists, saying: ok, you know what we get, it will listen. Tell us, there's a there's a moment where joys, Floyd's murder is making people who weren't listening, listen and so that moment of conversation, that's happening. That's pudding, books about racism on the best seller, with that's making everyone from Pepsi COLA tab you now.

Vaseline to Tampax donate to their level C p. It's it's an important moment for education and so putting something out there. That smash is through the Overton Window, something like defending the police, which is really focusing just on what we don't want. It's not focusing on what we do want is a powerful intervention, but I completely agree that the question is to be: what do we, Instead and fundamentally, it's a question of housing, affordability, the foster care system, which often leads back to housing, affordability, because parents can afford to keep a roof over their children and so end up losing them but just having the the dignity and resilience and strength, because you have enough money in enough resources to just take care of you, dignity and resilience and strength, because you have enough money in enough resources to just take care of your family.

It is also about getting cops out of schools where your constant he criminalizing kids, for what would have just been detention. I really do think that focusing on what we do want, there's an add that the Republicans various started rather abruptly a white woman running around in her house, because there's a home invasion which has of course like the single scariest thing right. In the end, it really was a huge part of that in our age can surge after Ferguson was this idea that they were going to be more home invasions after rises like immigrant and commented emigrants and sounds industry or the invader homes. That's waiting to by all these guns for protection, not for hunting, and you know them public amounts, as Democrats want to defend the belief So there's no name on one, but she calls nineteen one there's no what there and I do think we need our own ads,

like here reason. The reasons why people call nine one one and just show what would happen instead, rights, not uncommon. Nine. When one- because I hear somebody fighting next door at its worrying me right, that kind of welfare check is actually one of these. If things that happened, instead, you get someone who doesn't have a gun. You get One was the social worker you're worried about your neighbors kids. You know you have someone who comes and get some connected to. Food aid You know you're, worried about your own safety. You actually are able to get. Someone can just get you out of the situation and get you went to stable housing These are the kinds of things we need to see as a totally different version. I got it out social services and got it out. Only economic security that doesn't it and on the police to oppress people who were whose only crime is, you know, often being working class, poor, black and brown and indulgence.

You you touched on. Some of these were broader issues that I want to talk about me. George Floyd's murder was the spark for these protests and, and this reckoning that's taking place right now, and a lot of the focus has rightly rightly been on police and criminal justice reform. Also open up this bigger conversation about how to address them, racism Friday, is June teeth, which is the day a hundred and fifty five years ago, when the last enslaved Americans were freed- and I think these last few weeks have made it painfully obvious that we still haven't grappled with that legacy from a policy perspective. You know. Obviously, the lot of this is prioritization, especially when we're talking about government. If in November we have a democratic president and a democratic congress. Where would you begin. So I think first, we need to.

Recognize that part of the reason we have made more progress on racism in this country is because we have always had a well funded economically. Politically and socially powerful minority that has never wanted to change the racial order and they have been organised since our founding, and certainly, I think, even with with more money and tools to influence our democracy since the civil rights movement, and now you know their known as winners of the Coca network, and they have all these other things that the day they espouse, whether it's you know, attacks on government the desire not to regulate, but fundamentally they want the racial and economic status quo and part of the tools that they have used has been to fund

a dominant story, and we see Oliver right wing media. Is he all over the right wing social media, but we also see it in our classrooms. It just minimizes racism and blames people of color for racial and a Koala and racial inequality and social disparities, and so we ve now. She'd been on the same page about the extent of racism and why we are in this place that we are today. So that's why I think it's really important for us to do. Forty other societies that have had the kinds of trauma that we have had You recognise that we need a truth. Commission in this country, and I'm not saying, like shunted, asked your commission. I mean something that has where you can do it in every single community in the country. Right. Now, there's a template caught the truth, racial healing transformation effort that is happening in TWAIN, campuses and fourteen states in cities- I was just visiting with that. One

dallas- these have to re, write your racial history, I'm a friend of mine put it this way. She said you know. I always thought that we were country with racism, go on it. I didn't realize that we are racist country and if you, if you don't really I believe that a country that was founded on a belief in racial hierarchy and founded on stolen land and stolen labour and only had a majority of way people believing that lax, and why should marry in the eighties? it's, not a racist country, and that you know most of our laws and programmes were created at a time when it was governor policy, desegregate discriminate and we ve hasn't weeks round the edges that we haven't fully approve them. And as soon as we did start to do, that the nineteen sixty is the Supreme Court spent about ten, There is in that business and then the Supreme Court changed and they actually been the ones to stop racial progress. Time and time again use the equal protection clause,

I'm to defend corporations and tests and to defend white people from from from You know: affirmative action and voluntary school integration and other such evils. I'm so we ve actually had a sustained period of all hands on deck. What's all this, and so I do think we need something like Bruce and racial healing and reconciliation whatever you want to call it commission that gives us all on the same page, so we can begin to turn back, and I do think that we need to recognise that Your success as a family, so much of it depends on your inherited, whilst even if it's like your ants, ten thousand, savings barred or like a little bit of stock from your grandmother, black people, were officially denied that with, every single. In every single way that the government created white wealth from the Homestead ACT too.

Affordable mortgages to the dossier. To the g I bill to the subsidization of this every single one of those news explicitly denied that two black people, and so we have to have some kind of rapporteur she's, not even for slavery in my mind, but more for the inequalities in wealth building that happened in the twentieth. Century and frankly, well into the kite decade, with the financial crisis that could have been stopped and resulted in a loss of wealth for black families of about fifty percent in the course of a handle the Apes Dan. Could you see President Biden leading something like this in the early days in office, I mean I would hope. So you know, I think, it's a very powerful idea and I think it requires a shift in how all of us, from Joe Biden to us to democratic party leaders

think about institutional and structural racism You know I thought a lot about this and you know John! You, and I we know primary ference in politics was helping the first ask American pressing, developed it and then working in that White House for some number of years and I think about how in two thousand and eleven when Donald Trump was doing as birth. Her stuff in bomber finally responded and we sort of launch day for response to it now for once did Barack Obama any one of us explicitly say what he was doing with racist. It obviously was, but we did not say that we, you know it. No, we were all scared of saying there. He was here yeah and because of the double

turn tremendous expectations and burdens that were put on him as an african american worship. What would he could get away with compared to a white male president, just like white await? No president could get away with it. A Hillary Clinton is present, or can it could not get away with it? Take the corners of what was acceptable in since tromp was elected Democrats politically. From the country are more willing to explicitly call out. Racists and then racist think people say, but what I think that asks. Is it creates this narrative about racism that if we can just get the racist out of office we're going to solve the problem when the problem racist, its racism and it is situational and it is structural, and bodies every part of our life in our economic history and light that is really the conversation that I hope. We're having today, that Biden has, which is what does a politics and polish?

the truly attempts to grapple with institutional and structural racism looks like right because it is so much bigger than Donald Trump Donald Trump as president. Because we have a whole bunch of institutions in this case, free that are designed to disproportionately reward white people with power right he did not get an. He didn't get the most votes. He won't be Electoral college, which its massive amounts of political power to people on the wider states. In this tree and like there's a there's there. There is a policy agenda. There is a political strategy. There is. Structural reform very thinking about the cultural forces that we are up against this. Thinking about the conversation around the police, and that is why that add, the Heather measures. Is so powerful, because. We have a hundred years of popular culture that glorifies police

and even bad police, like that's, been the theme of the last twenty years, is that crooked com, cop who says the day they color outside the lines- and you know and like were like put- up against all the fat like Warburton in schools like aren't you in in our from rich, hey secretaries, at how many of you learned about Tulsa in school, and the answer is almost no one. I write our history are, the history of, as taught in schools of race in America. Is slavery, civil war, Jim Crow, civil rights legislation. Martin Luther King Brok, Obama gets elected, that's it right, like there is no discussion of the legacy of that have an impact things now and, like that's all a part of it, bigger, conversation or commission is how talked about that. We need to have I sort of citizens,

This is a real opportunity right now, there's a challenge with sort of the coalition that that the Democratic Party has right now and sort of where public opinion is opinion on issues like race, the police, the black lives matter movement, as has moved dramatically over the last few years, even the last few weeks, There exists a canopy I pull out today. That shows. Voters now support the removal of confederate statues by fifty two to forty four percent when they opposed it. Thirty, nine to fifty percent. Just three years ago, two Charlottesville: you have these attitudes changing. We have a coalition the party now that it has many more college, educated people and the party white attitudes have shifted the challenge. As I see it is I sometimes worry that the response to this becomes individualised or is limited to.

Changing personal behaviour or influencers posting or brands donating or corporations donating right, and it is sometimes it's harder to get people to focus on. I note Heather. This is your life's work. Sort of the larger economic structural issues at stake now right yeah, because you can feel good about donating. But the federal government can move trillions of dollars round and we have Schools, districts that are still segregated, affordable housing isn't built in our richest neighborhoods, the bunch of white liberals who are very well meaning these sort of big structural policies and challenges that we don't take on, and I wonder sort of how we get everyone oriented around the idea. That sort of that's the ultimate challenge here, about systemic racism, a hundred percent I mean, I think, two things to happen. One this a moment where a lot of weight folks are

educated themselves, I met a super important because their unlearned a lot of their crap, that we ve been taught in schools a lot of that? U know terrible narrative from the media, color of change. The organizational Emma culture has a series of reports. About how much the police procedures in the crime procedural has, under girded and eating the mass incarceration system. Exactly what I was talking about everything up, important right, like red, the color of love. I wish your browsing to really understand how much the government, segregated I'm Americans, in a red, the wants of other sounds: go ahead and red white fragility read the New Jim Crow Reed, how to be an antiracist and then, though, don't start with having educated yourselves. I'd like that is a very individualistic, which is a trap which is, as you know, a trappers,

of weight american culture. In many ways it said one of the dominant stories that were told is like it's just us on our own. When we make it, when we don't see the sort of invisible helped them to give up. So you you Kate yourself, but don't stop because no enduring changes that will happen in this country without Watch of action, and that's where you just need to get involved in and I think you are familiar your listeners have see now has to do with electoral politics over the past three years. You know and have seen that actually- when I get involved in a campaign, and I knock on doors, and I make phone calls and tax. I'm actually doing something collectively, to change the structures of power imagine doing all of their on candidates, campaigns, ideas, organizations that are fighting against structural racism battle, we need at the Hunter resemble, we need it and then I feel part of it doesn't

really incumbent upon the democratic leadership which is still overwhelmingly way from donors to the elected to the consultants, to kneel really give people better option, and this is where, in a fundamentally what policy gets sat- and you know you can have a completely woke electorate that once really big things and if the elected officials just don't put it on the table, it doesn't really matter, and so actually the biggest education needs to happen in Congress and Amanda Consulting Class in the donor class, and it just needs to be a broader set of again and because I do think that people will follow something that is bigger than the kind of piecemeal stuff that in a we ve gone from Democrats for the past twenty years. Well and in part of it,

is sort of the message. In the end, the story that we tell us, Democrats too, I mean Trump- has sort of perfected. You know a brand of white identity, politics that Republicans have been praying since the late sixties, scare, white Americans, into thinking that progress for black Americans can only come at their expense. Anything because this has worked for Trump and for Republicans especially in swing say that have a greater share of of white voters without a college degree. You gotta, lotta democratic politicians who ve been hesitant to take on systemic races, menaces? You know even sort of what Dan was talking about a few minutes ago You ve done a lot of work Heather on how democratic should think about this from a messaging perspective, yeah in some way gone on the race class narrative. Can you talk a little bit about that and how that fits with the moment? Yeah I mean what we found was that, in others are three categories of voters and the

our base our opposition or thereby I'm a man over sixty percent of folks are persuadable, which means But they're, like you, know, completely moderate and in the middle, it means that they hold a progressive story on race and the economy and government in their minds and also hold the conservative story. It's like we ve heard both stories. The person who tells me the conservative stories compelling, and sometimes the person who tells me to progressive stories, compelling it's really weird for people like us who, like it out really see the world with our story, but it's true. It's the majority of people, and so what we found was that those that sixty percent of persuadable was actually really supportive of policies to address systemic racism if they had

Roger description and story of what racism was. Who was selling it? Who was benefiting from it? then the norm, all you know I'm a racist person. So I do something bad to someone. Rather, if we could tell the story of racism as something that is a political and economic weapon that is wielded by a few self centered, stead sold and marketed to you know a broader public, but ultimately that doesnt benefit that broader public of. Ultimately, these rules of of wait supremacy of the that these rules that support the fallacy of white supremacy are the kinds of rules that keep our tax so totally upside down. A kind of rule that keep public education under funded and

in the category of things that people after mortgage their entire future together and shot at. It keeps college affordability out of reach for the middle class who needs it. The most it keeps you know. Are our public purse spending more money on war and warrior cops than it does on clean water and bridges that don't fallen dams? It don't break me. It's not working for a country. The Koran about his hand, Dennis It's just laid so bear that we are acting like a fixed rate country, and so much of it is because we have prioritized all the wrong things we have let self interested greedy, racist and sexist people, kind of loot, the country and not invested in all of us. Because of this view that there is some groups of people that are just better than others and so whose really benefiting from it is a white working class of Cancun and guy who can't get into a union because Europe,

busted with a lot of racist fearmongering politics is, is that I really benefiting from racism. You know I want to look at whose selling racism for their own profit more than whose desperate after by and I think when we start asking that question, we will see that the Republican Party in the people who who feed the report compiling in its current generation are selling wait. Americans abyla goods that has worked right and enjoy. Pretty of White Americans have voted for a publican for president since When did Johnson sign the Civil Rights act right like it, has a white party with a white identity, politics, right leadership and a white bass, and yet it is screwing the country getting it in Yet some parts did: what do you think about this because you know you can see how a lot of democratic politicians concerted fall into the trap of embracing and almost color blind economic policy.

Because we ve sat and how many meetings with kids since in seeing how many poles, where the policies, the pull the best, Sir taxing the Jane. You know investing in this and everything that is the sort of economically populist and nature and then maybe they want to sort of shy away from more direct discussions about race because that's not He went over those swing voters, but I think you know it. Heather makes the point very well from a time research that actually naming the people who are doing the device that are dividing us against each other white brown, black voters. So that they can like loot, the rest of the country that are much more powerful argument for a lot of these voters, I understand why democratic politicians democratic insulted and made the decision they have in the past. It is it from based on an outdated view, of politics in its also based on them. Idea that racism

a binary choice between white supremacist and woke and there's nothing in the middle, and it doesn't accepts why Heather's resource regulation shows, which is people have very confusing, complicated and often conflicting, use about race. You know, and I have followed the work there, Heather Assent on this very closely and release sort of both my way- and I have this Youtube Series where we look upon the plans, for I talk to a not checker Soria collaborator on this work there'll be out next week in what I think is a way to think about. It is Republicans are running a very explicit, racially divisive messaging and political strategy, and rats, have tried to run an implicit ray community strategy, and I think It is very compelling about. What have they are talking about is that you cannot alive the conversation you in a world where it is there

fearmongering from a very, very, very powerful set of messengers on the right. You have to take that on and explain why it's wrong? Who is funding it in who it serves, and I think that's very, very important. And I also think that movements matter and movements work at movement shift opinion. I mean in our it's just it's it's not just Donald Trump. It's not just the public execution of joy. Lloyd, it's also six years of a black lives matter movement that has been shaping consciousness and and shaping the confidence of black people array. I mean you know from the rock Obama, many many others. You know this particular level of consciousness around like identity and rigour, meaning you don't blackness, Andrew and reclaiming our history and being willing to be in our We black is

Actually, no right I mean our generation is an older millennials or just a jet acts. Are we do happen that colorblind error as well, and so right that that that the black eyes matter has changed the world without it am I So I think that this narrative sort of it speaks to a longing that a lot of I think Americans have right now, which is people? Don't people don't want to be divided by now by race yeah, but don't water above all, races and in the end, opposite of that is they don't necessarily want some sort of happy unit

that like papers over all the male differences and struggles, but there is a sort of a longing for a solidarity Yom that you can empathize with other peoples struggles, and I don't think we ve had sort of leaders who can really call on that desire that people have to sort of stand in solidarity with one yeah. I don't think there's any more important word in America right now than solidarity, and I think it's. It means exactly that that sensors haven't each other's back. It's not I gotta come by our work and of all the same right. It's not like that. It saying actually our struggles are different, but you know what we're gonna support each other through them, and people are very scared for good reason than you know. Tat melting end You know our institutions are sick of it. Everyone gets right like on a fundamental level. People are very, very scared,

and so the idea that someone has their back is extreme, we pass, and I think that the protests in the demonstrations in the uprisings in again all fifty states, just you know, smashing through stereotypes us who actually goes out to protest. So much about was primed by this precious moment of Solidarity of national solidarity that we had at the beginning of the corona virus pandemic way. We showed that we were all willing for a few weeks, freeze our lives and do things that we never thought we would do in order to be a part of a shared national efforts to save ourselves, to save our neighbours, to say my friends and family to save the country, and we did it right like a central work,

Did it and you know parents did it, and you know many. In many cases local officials did in teachers did it and child care work Did it Washington really didn't do it right? We had leadership that was really unwilling to serve stand and have have our backs, but there was this moment a real sense of vulnerability and fear, and also I'm actually willing to do something from my neighbour and I'm and I'm feeling a shared sense of struggle with my neighbour even though obviously wish you lay bare, are already setting impulse that Americans and you see each other and seen the whole country do the same thing, which

oh, it's just so far from large, individualised kind of consumer marketplace culture it it just really, I think primed us for showing up for black lives in the wake of joy for its death. But hopefully we can turn that into something more, lasting and endurable just a fleeting moment here, and I hope we will have a thank you so much for for joining us. This is this is a online pleasure and its allies to be with you- and you know folk should were listening, should read up. You know, do all the education you can black brown and white folks that everybody in between and learn about our history, the stuff that you know with delight to about, but also take action and join up in it there. So many organisations that there are great and nothing

it was better than the moving inaction and solidarity to your fellow Americans. Just along those lines, I highly recommend Heather's TED talk on this very topic, which is very, very powerful, very compelling. Thank you. We- and I am please come back so we can. I think we should keep having these conversations cause. It's it's important sanskrit Egypt? When we come back? We will have in conversation with reverent, William barbarous positive work. Is broadly by fibre Twenty. Twenty has been the year of uncertainty, so hugging your business plan for the unexpected. Fibres online marketplace connects businesses with freelancers, offering hundreds of digital services, including graphic design, copyrighted web programming, film, editing and more? You know we are doing a lot of work, we didn't nessus Early plan were doing to be doing in renewing remotely especially team Wisconsin, who is just kicking the shit

out at every other, adopted states state. I know that than wearing I deem Wisconsin shirt so this time that it is not a measurable way. I'm gonna get some five or I did this earnings when adopted state cars because it was better than I do my I got five or on a joke, but I'm gonna get a five or final answer to draw me. Some fucking awesome Wisconsin, adopt estate gear and on their brother, your face when we do this red next week I got five, do you think they thought of it. I bet it's been pitched at least a dozen meetings What am I missing lunacy? It's it's! It's a ninety, nine! These helps. I love it, the girl? We name is ninety. You mean ninety nine is the nineteen ideas. The ninety nine is made any life. Ninety five, whether you are launching your first business scaling your current business or in need of extra support to complete a project fibres glue

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by John Stewart, starring Steve Corral, Chris Cooper, Mackenzie Davison rose burnt in theatre. And undermine June twenty six years, it will take you to rural Wisconsin, where a high profile democratic consultants sets out to recruit a retired marine colonel to run. For mayor of his small Wisconsin Town Watch, T V curl, and burn face off in a local election that garners national attention. You can visit were ouch irresistible dotcom. That's one word what I r r e s eye as tee, I b l e dot com and set a watch reminder best of all joy Stewart irresistible will be available to stream from your home on demand June. Twenty sixth remember movies. That's ears this double from focused features available to stream on demand June? Twenty six? He's the culture of the poor peoples campaign and the president in senior lecturer of repairs of the breach reverend after William Barber welcome back to POD save America. Thank you

to allow us to be always always good to be with you so grateful to have you? U revive the poor peoples campaign in two thousand eighteen, but this weekend, you're starting a new push with new too and what has or hasn't happened since two thousand, and that makes this such a critical moment for your campaign. A law- would Reverend gotta leave your Harris and now, with forty five states, coordinated committees, we we revived into eighteen, but we would just beginning and we know that the first thing we had to do- was aught of America. An audit of the bank was on the best economist others where they actually get a handle about what was going on, and we saw about. We hear thirty, nine million people in poverty, but his ashes

one hundred and forty million people, possibly in lower afforded to the pursuit of a country just give you one of the glaring numbers and seven hundred people were dying day from poverty on a million a year. The next thing we wanted to do as we want to launch a campaign. We did six weeks of marching in forty one state capitals in the District of Columbia, the lake putting out demands place and one of the things that has done it has pushed the issue of poverty,

and I'll have into lackeys. Justices system is, though, just Emmett Poverty, economical devastation, the health, banality of care, the war economy and is far more than the religious nationalism in to the public's, where more and more and more people are organizing at a bed deep level. We has assured me that what is at stake, coordinated, committed, live a poor people, more leaders and advocates. We have nineteen major religious denominations of very different religion in the country

look back, and now we have over a hundred and fifty partners now that of connected, and we have asked whether they were killed between unions, better connected and people are really started to see how we have to deal with these flat interlocking evils interlocking injustices at any time. I think we had a big congress and we ask the proposed budget found a battle with the call, the lab scarcity, and we ask the presented that budget to the house, the House, a representative United States Congress, stood at the budget Committee first than ever that poor people, white, black and back ah native, had actually call thanks, said here he is, I we can fix the problem, here's what needs to be done and says that time we ve been doing. I we must do more, are mobilizing organizing registering people

mobilized organizer registering Jerry People's movement. We did another study that, because we are we we want acting based and reality One the days we found out is that from Colombia, university study that if you just register fifty percent register poor and lower people in this country. You can find a of the politics, and so we began to war to do that register people across the country in a targeted way with the girl. The change to the merit of building power, and we were headed DC for June twenty Twond. Oh Pennsylvania, Avonlea would Colbert, he lighted a bit, love it and when cold,

and expose the level of poverty and the level of racism in this country and how the pandemic export adult more role. More and more about issues right into the heart of the political dialogue that you that that poverty and racism and the other things we have major Ashley threats to our very national secured addressed us who we are

as a society, and now we are here to what this massive for people's Assembly Morrow March on Washington, the largest, was historic gather, a poor, lower people and their allies, a digital gathering and building on the same day that the Trump is in torso, insulting the history there, the and the ugly racism of of bombing and rioting and destroying a black community and with contracts that day with hundreds of thousands of people online of every race, color sex. Without saying that, we need to be about the business of addressed, these issues at bringing people together. The changes I been rather than bringing people together to continue to divide up the for people's campaign as a non partisan organization, but much of what you call for in your budget and in your activities is generally considered to be progressive legislation when you are out there

making the case for your agenda. How do you make it to folks who do not necessarily a den of five with a democratic party or with progressive ism? Well, I don't know tourism. Quite the same way, you know Teddy Roosevelt was public and he talked a lot about progressive ideas back him area, I think to alphabet exactly at stake. We may we see the issues. We talk about a constitutional issues of moral issues in the deepest religious faith. It tells us that how we treat poor people in the emigrant and the sick, our moral issues about left and right of aggressive versus conservative- I our constitution, says establish just as that in the

gradually war conservative, it could be both. Actually it's gonna be a constitutional. Is that you want to conserve was in the constitution at one of the things we want to conserve. The establishment of justice that provided for the common defence would also want to be progressive day, nor the make sure that your constant examining the areas. It is sad that, better than being progressively active toward change it, that is, I think, you'd first about not get caught up in the language of debates. We have too much puny, languid left versus right, then grant Verses Republic, The diversity that exists gets tired and people are hurting fixing of going into community law. Appalachia work. All matters, no hair healthcare, but their black lung disease. Wanna hear about these little terms that we get caught up in it. We are not talking here. They are Didn't know. How is it that I get health care? How is that we can get living weight is how do we get clean water? And if you can,

show them that their people, the for instance, data- were pushing voted The pressure laws when they get elected through voter suppression losses talk a bit like the ones they get elected. They use their power to block healthcare. The herd goal matters that block corporations from poisoning communities. It hurt black white asian latino assassination people, they began to see something they began to see that they actually are should meet again and so what we do is we just go to the people. I would teach the true. We show people that there is a connection between poor person but the other businesses and that the poor farmers out in Kansas, both of them need health care. Both of them are struggling with away just both of them find themselves being constantly under under my rather corporal inches of this is country above

we can also have people. Never women have conversations about house just immigration, this against black people attain our peoples are indigenous people just image. Racism is not just a get. Those people is targeted at them, but it's a guest at dinner We say it holds us back and we ve found it there's a whole lot of people that are ready to keep away from the late start dealing with what sex life we do. Is we show people that poverty kills and has a death measurement quota me people a year die. Don't have that if we addressed issue of public health, the malady of care, keels, there's a death measurements, we we noted thousands of people die for every five hundred thousand people got happy up gear. We shall be able, in the south and all of the southern states, that the matter of care or therefore will generate the majority of the people. There would have been impact it bad, getting receiving healthcare are white, but the most of the reasons why the governess

the legislators, the look obeyed, a black man who happened to be a their name Obama. We have to have grown up conversations and when you do, that get around a lot of these labels. When you use more fuel was that labels party, if we gave a talk about, was right and wrong. Was left to right. It is amazing how that changes. The hope was, and poor people together. No you have then marching in organizing and having registering voters and talking to people face to face with now works is staying in a pandemic. That's gonna make a lot of those traditional forms of organizing less free. Under wraps you dangerous people to do be, I'm having a march transitions into additional gathering. What else you thinking hey you're, going to do your work amidst this pandemic. What does that mean?

First of all, it is not a march is a poor people's assembly. More mines on Washington, I think, is important. Last described that we'd never attempted to adjust our march. We intended to bring Gather poor lower people because to work who will gather antlers of anger, gonna gather did they will in fact, first about tell their stories and the pain is being caused by these bad and locking injustice at animal. Be a coward intuitive presentation. As I said, you have other Tino from California stand what a fast work of maternal love. If you have a farmer from Kansas standing with court, martial jack expanding whip up to a low income people for Mississippi, Catherine, would you and saying look at us look at us. We are America, look at how these things are hurting, also destroying our listen to them.

The forty million people. How do you know what a triple celebrate nation? Then they were changed. The narrative that changes in the faces and presented this to America and to the world, and then they would with. We are committed to be a power, but we also presented at the back of this because it demands or not we need. I believe you should just turn the darkness were demand. We started using social media law that will use it when we organised in six weeks of action, we used to dinner. Mass meetings would now that we ve had throughout the country using that training. We built a massive Why do we not also baby, so we always had and they use it? Reprint dimming is forcing us to use, even if we were anticipated ever do. We also ought to be using their social media, but because of our advisers Phd epidemiologists said it not be responsible to put people on planes and trains of buses. Cod

do you think we're utilizing this format we have now over two hundred facebook account be back streaming with us, MSNBC isn't even after platform ABC their social media platform. I will be utilised we'll using every to every two social media to known to humankind. Ah to poor people together and an end. We believe that the movement has to use all the tools we see it happening with many other groups. We need to go you do that out and say you ve Harriet Tubman US about the people out of slavery. She never had good she never dare to grab. She never had Gmail. She never had to say about it. Some are no sound of the trio Northstar, this guy and a thirty pistol in her pocket, and that was due to you not to protect yourself in ass. She was rescued and save

the matter, but the sight, the metal, whether she had had all the tools we have and what you say is. We can now see people in the past who did less with more and we don't do for with we have more than they ever here. We cannot do less than they did so we're using every floor social media. We have also created a newspaper reached out the people, better social media and who may be the arm. Called vision, otherwise, because we really are building a movement from the bottom up from the bottom up, y know that's estate. I'm on you have been organizing and working in North Carolina for very long time what advice which you have for our listeners who have doubted North Carolina. Digitally volunteer, donate money trying to help push those over the finish line. One of our six states is North Carolina state. I'm on you have been organizing and working in North Carolina for a very long time. What advice which you have for our listeners, who have adopted North Carolina as to how you build political power in that state,

well, Norka alarming. In two thousand and twelve, we had a very, very bad election that was determined by the two thousand and ten redistricting that was laid has been proven to be unconstitutional and races, but it was alive.

To go to do by the Justice Department. At that time we disagreed with it. We took on corporate, took a six years doing it and the other that we are more people both in more forward thinking way. But the redistricting created a super majority General Assembly's, and it was a super majority extremists, Republic amounting Column republican bet. There was something other than the public, maybe cheap bodies, and in the first it today, as they were too, they went after took part here, get blocked, living wages, block increase in unemployment, gotta be enough, and public education at the wind and went up. Gay people went up the lifting of people and then, in April of this year they either side they gotta go after voting rights. They passed the bier held onto until after June. Twenty save the day that the shell decision was sorry got it. Both sexes babbled voting right back, and then they passed the worst voting rights or suppression beer. We had seen since junk

we support them. In more Monday, for four years over two hundred people were arrested. We register people vote. We took them before we enter into any sixteen and one seventy, and even as late as this year, we want every power we took on against massive vote of suppression, and now the lands are reduced. Eliza been drawn the voter suppressant tactics to answer their education early border habits up a bottle. I d efforts have been stopped. The clubs have called it call what they decision or racism in twenty. Sixteen, when we just want a few things, we would always state did beat Donald Trump down ticket. We want governments were under a g, we transition, the Supreme Court would be one about progress achieved. Drink was in in the south, more black women on the Supreme Court and ever more after bad.

If ever and now we have a chest this election, the fundamentalist shifted opportune, did their best to unseat until it was the architect of water supply, steady as well as a massive way before million poor low income people in October it for low income people reddish about how we could find a malicious next day. I think drop me a wamba about, among insisted that both, but some five hundred thousand after America's alone do already registered, did bow and and tens of thousands of other people He had not boat. So why would you embarrassed in massive genial tv efforts? I know we're gonna be doing efforts like that with your tears at the breach and the poor people camp and others this right now, the biggest focus for not alarm is massive. Voter registration. Voter protect

voter mobilization and you don't even have to be partisan people know what had happened. I believe people in our state are bare bothered by the fact that the average a symbol that even in the midst of a pandemic, will still not expand. Medicate Woods the increase unemployment they are, they are regressive day are extreme, is about mean spirited. We ve seen it. There ever said about the cost, where hundreds more linear to get arrested, and this guy and people had been waiting here. Waiting waiting, a bell and twenty twenty with will beat back the suppression, love and it's time to try to use those victories into massive massive voter turnout. That's what we're gonna be Doin, that's where I believe

we should be investing. Nor till I was about to grab outlet for the presidency, but for the back stakes in it and to turn around someone General Assembly and make it what it ought to be a representative of the people river. Thank you so much for the work you are doing. You are and inspiration to all of us. Thank you return as Europe. Has our America Anchorage over when I go to W W W Dot June, twenty twenty dot org to sign for your assembly, and thank you. For being with us. Thank you, John, everybody and don't ever forget about it, what forward together, not one step back together, thanks to Heather Magee and thanks to the Reverend Marian Barber, John John Italian will be back on Monday and I'll see everyone next week. What's in America, is a product of cricket media, the executive producer,

Michael Martinez. Our system producer is Jordan Waller. It's me! an edited by Andrew Chadwick Carl Sagan is our sound engineer, things to tell you something or Katy Long, Roman Papa Dimitrios, Caroline resting Annalisa Gutierrez for production support into our digital too. Eliza Cone, Normal Coney and yell freed. In my look him, who film and upload these episodes is videos every week.