The presented sponsor of this episode of POD save America is simply say, remember the feeling you got a kid getting tucked into bed. The feeling you get now and the arms is somebody you love safe and secure. It's a feeling of security that only comes to our human connection, the long way of saying that the people it simply safe home security are important, of course, save, has an award winning system that has all the technology bells and whistles expect these days, but the people at simply say really take it to the next level there they are run the clock anytime, you need them and the thing is simply safe. Just makes it so easy. It takes about two minutes. Customize. The system on their website simply say: dotcom such crooked, whether it's a fire Burglary, a medical emergency, a burst pipe, or even problem, while you're setting up the system simply safe has a person with the expertise you need ready to help twenty four seven and when you know, there's always someone there to help? Well, that's a feeling you just don't get with any old security system to learn.

Or about how simply safe can help protect you and your family visits simply safe. Dotcom such crooked today to customize your system and get a freezing Cameron, you also get a sixty day risk free trial, so there's nothing to lose that simply safe dot come to I welcome the pod. Save America, I'm John fairer. I'm dyin on today show Joe engine is Joe, mentioning all over infrastructure and voting rights. Legislation new

A writer Giuliani Cobb joins to talk about the right wing hysteria over teaching racism in Abide meets Vladimir Putin in the most. We anticipated summit of the summer, this impossible to get tickets there, but first, but first June teeth is just around the corner and crooked has some. excellent episodes to celebrate terrain again. Talk about the importance of the day on positive, the people of Cuba and The entire! Do you see a lay professor Brenda Stevenson about how June teeth came to be on what a day an honorary Cox has joined by former? U S, ambassador to police, Carlist Marino for a discussion about the Tulsa race Massacre check out all these episodes wherever you go, your podcast also, the crooked store, has great new additions are first ever beach, towels with phrases like vaccinated. Let women run shit and gay for democracy as always

a portion of every order in the crooked store is donated to vote writers go shop now, a crooked dotcom, slash store, I M very excited for my vaccinated pool, float, which is coming. Any data is at a real thing, yet in its real thing, they sold out almost instantly smart too. That's like the apple thing where you dramatic, We understand to create a set of those other matters, and this is a very popular Adam. Let's get to the news, that we are too big updates to talk about on info. Picture in voting rights that both involve Washington's most annoying houseboat resident Joe Mansion on infrastructure, Joe has now expanded his gang of bipartisan goobers to ten Democrats, Antenne Republicans move all reach an agreement on a one point: two trillion dollar plan focused on roads, bridges, railroads, energy infrastructure, public transportation and broadband. That's financed without any tax hikes.

the due to catch the votes on the republican side Senate Minority WHIP junk food said that the plan has been received well by even his more conservative members, but on the democratic side, budgetary, Bernie Sanders has already said he won't vote for the deal and a bunch of other progressive in the Senate and House are saying that they won't vote for this by partisan deal. Unless all fifty Senate Democrats agree to a second reconciliation bill. The gets rid of some of the trunk tax cuts to pay for climate education housing, you're, giving maybe even immigration and as one democratic source, told CNN quote every day. credit priority from the last forty years. I didn't. I got some questions. First of all, what do you think of? Let's take it from the side of the progressives, the sight of of mansion and sent him in the central and then and then Biden on the progressive side? What do you think of this strategy and how much leverage today actually have here? You would never know it from reading politico punch ball.

for any of the other Capitol Hill. Nukes publications, but every vote in the Senate counts the same Bernie Sanders. This vote is worth as much as your imagines vote. Elizabeth warrens votes were much scarce in cinemas, but sir. Yes, they have all the leverage in the world if they are really willing to take a deal because it doesn't have it so that brought one or two other progressive point They are morally correct that it is absolutely fucking in saying that you would pass a trillion dollars of infrastructure spending and not focus a large portion of that on climate. They, like the state like their slogan, I met? No deal is its. It is an insane thing to do, even even in this region partisanship and improving airports that we have visited very long time roads we have driven. I logged on the idea that you would that is crazy, because as we as everyone whose ever worked on capital at the White House knows every Legislative accomplishment makes the next one harder. Every dollar spent makes the next dollar artists

we just got a trillion. Dollars are something that does not the climate. It can be that much harder to spend the money you need to do something about climate or in the other things we care about. I I'm wondering how much leverage they actually have. I realise their votes all count the same, but now that we have a deal that Republican seem to like, like John through in saying that so far they started with ten republican votes for this deal in the Senate, then Jerry Moran came on as the eleven for public and vote so before they had the eleventh republican Vote, Bernie saying you is voting against. It meant that it wouldn't fly in the Senate right because you need sixty votes to pass something so then during rancid, I'm for it so now to the matter of the Burmese against it. I guess the question is published. Leverage the house progressive tasks in the sand like now, you need another Senate Democrat or to come out and say no to take the deal and if Funeste

even some of his more conservative members, are open to it. You could conceivably see a bipartisan infrastructure deal pass the has in the Senate with democratic and republican votes. Even if a bunch of progressive said There are posed to the deal correct yeah I mean it's. The the sequencing matters here right, easier for Bernie, Reserve Senate Progressive where they were noted really is not just Bernie right. You have Marguerite Heinrich Berkeley this origin, yet as a whole bunch, you say no climate no deal currently there's no climate. Therefore there is no deal it's ease. Here to vote no on something that has happened. Then it is for a democratic control house to vote down a bill that has the support of seventy percent of the democratic as in the Senate. Presumably, the support president buying to sink that bill is that's a much more challenging and ever now that's the end of the road like which what can happen is the Senate has as its deal the

passes and amended version or indifferent deal, and then there is a new businesses so crazy, but there's a conference committee where people get together to hammer out the difference, so there is. There is leverage here and it's a smart have everyone to highlight their opposition there, leverage, because it strengthens the hands of the democratic negotiators in the room Why is it easy? It makes it easier for the Democrats I well. I can't do this because I'm and others were robins get to do that over time. What is so? What sums can attack us ourselves as or servants, or imagines gonna tankers. We're cinemas, gonna tankers by it helps We have for the White House and tumor in every eye was about to say, while that you can't do that or you have to include this Otherwise, there will be no deal because I cannot muster enough for my caucus to do it either in the house or the sun. So in theory, this progressive strategy for saying a camera going to back this by partisan deal until every Democrat commits to

a second simple majority reconciliation, build the contains Oliver other priorities and raises tax on the rich seems like a great idea. The challenges Joe Mansion won't commit to supporting a second reconciliation, but why do you think he won't do that yet because he once leverage and our think of germanic ears and cinema committed to supporting the only reconciliation it would sink? The bipartisan talks like this is ultimately wake I've, never seen something with more emotion unless movement than these infrastructure negotiations that every day there's like breathless reports about statements and like work. This paper that favour, but no one has yet put together a plan. that either is a bipartisan plan that actually has sixty votes, and I ask you to pass the house or a partisan reconciliation plan that has fifty votes, and if you have progressive, documented by partisan thing, you have Moderates are committing to

reconciliation, planned we're just gonna circles, and there is a little bit of an alarming for the people. situation here. What we do Now what mansion and cinema want to include in Iraq? aviation deal. If they were willing to do that right, are they going to support a huge child care provision. We don't know that right. We just answer we're having this theoretical discussion of ones like we can have this by partisan deal right here. That is insufficient. It is better than nothing or we can have this giant amazing, whistles everything we care about, and that's not a real thing. We don't know what that is. Even if you can get mansion to go along with a reckoning Fishermen, which I will say is important to note that not he is not committed to it but he has not taken off the table yet look we should say I dont believe there's anything objectionable in this by partisan deal. It's just, as you said, insufficient right lot of spending.

on roads, bridges bought broadband great. I think it should be that it doesn't raise tax like doesn't take away the Trump tax cuts at all, but as long as it doesn't like, you know raise the gas tax which was floating around. I think that it again it's a is a fine proposal. We need infrastructure great, but it is woefully insufficient. All of your binds. Other priorities are just sitting out there. They need to go into a second Ricans reconciliation bill. My belief here is that, once again, Joe Mansion is in the the boat driver's seat, because I think was, I think, was going to happen. So he said yesterday when he said he wouldn't commit to the reconciliation bill. It's not that he doesn't want to commit to the concept of a Democrats. Only reconciliation bill is that he doesn't want to commit to the substance of it before he knows what the substances which honestly

I get right like if you're dimension, you're, not going to say like yeah, no matter what you guys put together, you can count on me it s right. In saying I mean I would say that, as I was a democratic and are but the suggestion we're talking about he's a central he's not going to do that, no one should expect him, but he's going to do that. He said the other day, I'd like to see a good piece of legislation, and I think we can all start working on it. Now, I'm not opposed to doing anything. That's gonna help our country, absolutely not we just need to see something, so it doesn't like what mentions gonna do here is really push for this by partisan deal to get done. If a bunch of Democrats fall off and he needs to make up for their votes by getting a bunch of Republicans on board he'll try to do that, get Biden to sign a bipartisan d. And then basically shaped the reconciliation only bill to as much money as Joe Mansion feel comfortable spending and you'll get away with that too, because you need

mentions. Vote to pass a reconciliation Bellamy does does seem right, yeah, maybe that I think that is the hope that the other thing is happening here. Is the clock is ticking right? We have, there is no deal. There is no legislative language. There is no bill on even on this by partisan thing, and it is now the middle of June. Congress takes August off, they take off like seventy two days and when I M so glad we there is no whether these things weren't you happen, and we also just democracy and interim, which I know will get to stop it like. They are burning clock on the Democrats and that those every one of those days matter with ample time you'd never get a second Stood back in the presidency, the election still happens at the same time. On the same day

and so, if you spend six weeks after five years ago, that does not happen or is woefully insufficient. That's six! We should instead, on Denmark, families planned american jobs plan for the p will a wide array of other things you could be doing and there is or in politically today, about what the Republicans strategy. Was your settings pretty fascinating couple ways which is because sort of wonder and like Mcconnell said he wants bind to be a one term. President, John Barroso, who is actually a real person. I did make that up said dad once bind to be a half term president, which I assume it somehow related. You trumps pending reinstatement, Well, if you think that, then, why are you working on a trillion dollar economic bill with the president. And the reasoning in the story was the relegates incur. carbon they're, not gonna, get mansion derga. The rohingya seem quite evident that,

since we are not going to be for a big reconciliation by the Red Army who knows, but they do believe that this by partners, both in terms of eating at the clock and getting something done, makes it less likely. That by more get a huge deal, and it says a lot about how Republicans think about politics. This sort of in the additional Washington wave. They get a big bipartisan infrastructure, but would be a huge political boon to Democrats. But that's not what Mcconnell thinks well Mcconnell things is a bipartisan deal. Is a price worth paying to prevent them from doing a bunch of things that would really deliver for people and make the democratic base happen, and they get is a real window into what the risks of this are Ivan. the Republicans, are wrong about this, but I think that the real challenge for the reconciliation bill here, which we haven't, talked much about, because it's always like, in the background of run, like all, do everything else in the second reconciliation?

Is that why you can lose some democratic votes on the by partisan infrastructure bill? If you make it up with Republicans, we need just about every democratic in Congress in the house in the Senate to agree on whatever than this reconciliation bill. Unlike that democratic source, told CNN everyone's looking at this bill to include like Forty years of democratic priorities, we got climate, we got education, we got housing, we got Healthcare Bernie once prescription drugs, we got tax increases on the rich right like this is ever thing, and so this is a bill where you either of a YO and the House progressives agreeing with Joe Mansion on the bill. all of them together or we don't get in done and Joe Islands and the Democrats biggest priorities. Just don't have it so like for all the manoeuvring and all they confusing stuff? You're all you need to know what the second reconciliation Bela's era in Romania. We have to agree on it, or else nothing gets done. That's where we are. How do you think hunting Joe Biden should play this? How do you think the way husking

hither, a whole bunch of stories, data, like Biden, returns home with a big decisions? Does he get reconciliation or by paradox, the now that's how it he needs to do what he has been doing and what I think humorous during which is could get if this going on two tracks, The enchanter seems very competently. You hear about these energies seems very productive and pretty optimistic about what can happen here and he should sort is reconciliation process. We should keep frightened during the bipartisan thing, Steve Rossetti whose, but what about southern visor met with somebody remembers recently, it was reported that he said that binds may give the seven the ten days whether it will really be seventy days. I add another with we have come, multiple deadlines and the infrastructure talks, which is something I think, that's probably makes me we're gonna smile if he were does, if you're, a human being capable of smiling like the rising to keep this going on two tracks and and and show

when to both tracks. You keep everyone on board and that you have to pick one path right now So I also on Wednesday dimension, down from the mountain, with a tablet of provisions on voting rights and election reform that his highness deems acceptable that those include banning partisan, gerrymandering at least two weeks early voting automatic voter registration through the de making alike today, a national holiday enforcing super packs to disclose their donors, but mention also wants to require voter Idee with allowable alternatives like utility bills. He doesn't want to require no excuse mail in voting and he doesn't want public funding.

of campaigns. So also breaking news from this morning, Stacy Abrams set on CNN that she supports this compromise. Why do you think she does? What do you think of a compromise and should jugs humor? The Democrats put this compromise version of the for the people act on the Senate floor for a vote. I imagine that Sis II supports this compromise because it will solve. Every problem might even create a few, but it deals with some of the bigger challenges we currently have in. Most importantly, there is partisan gerrymandering. Partisan gerrymandering is a ten year problem that makes all the other things we care about voter. I d voter suppression, everything else so much worse, and so, if you Do something right here right now to do a procedure may wish to increase democratic chances of winning. The house would make Congress more representative would be used. That is a ten year.

A solution, and there is no other solution to this right. The Supreme Court does not believe that Parson gerrymandering as it use discipline issue. They think that the only way to win the only way to deal with rigged district is to win inroad districts, which is particularly stupid way of thinking and so yeah. It's not awesome pressure like no one wants to be four voter idea that we desire. It is a policy that is races. It intent in often and pray in very are almost always in practice, but if you were to have to make some trades to get something done, that is a trade that I think he would make every single that that stadiums, which again we have to make trains to get something done on this. There is no world where, for the people passes, as is no world dimension, has about you, my hate, it he's annoying lives in a houseboat It's gonna, fuck and vote in the Senate. He's told us a million times not vote for it as it is so get it out. Your heads that it's gonna passes. It is it's not. It fills me

you are taking a risk and we're about to get some rubble about from house, but people who probably have a huge, on Twitter. There were unaware of that, the constituency. You repeatedly attacked, please bring bringin, I take it tat. They had all the criticism of the husband one, I worked in the White House. I made a joke about the funding in some republican bill for the Davis CUP. No other Davis CUP butts assailing thing. America's got rid of their a joke about funding, for the Americans. Cop add be sailing out community, but let us lighthouse, I did have a phone call with someone who is very disturbing any of this, neither here nor there. Yes, they should put it on the floor. because the only way we're gonna have a chance. You actually have the conversation The filibuster is to get a bill. That gets a majority of Democrats. that bills, whatever information wants it to be, like you say that socks I have one more Senate raises, but that is a world in which we live. So I think you have to do that. Shimmer hint

that last night when he said that the we was going through the calendar that the week of June, twenty first or whatever it is, would be the for the people act, but that could be a placeholder for something remember my voting session. Two things on on voter idea. One day waigel had a good point about this from the russian imposed on twitter. Yesterday he said you know it will be a good deal for has Democrats, because many of them have one in states with voter Idee requirements. If you chop up their districts gerrymandering became one which I think, really sums it up there. You note TIM came said yesterday that he was talking to mention about this and he s a that. You know mansion requiring being for. crying border. I d, by allowing a lot of exceptions like presenting a utility bills, would actually help in states that currently have really restrictive. Voter idea was the problem would be states, they don't have any voter idee whatsoever right now than it would settle

we become more onerous for them because you have like a blue say that has never right and they have to set up voter I so he said he was talking to mention about somehow not forcing states. They dont currently have already to have them. So I do think that something to us to keep in mind during the real question is, does even mentions compromise get any republican votes at all, because mention told reporters on Wednesday that he still not budging on the filibuster, because he believes he can get sixty votes for this compromise and quote you should not pass any type of a voter bill in the most diverse of time of our life. Unless you have some unity on this thing, but it is a huge but The intercept got led audio of assume CALL Mansion did with these centrist group, no labels and a bunch of billionaires, literally no one I'd rather meet with last s. Bread, zoom or no zoom in leaked Audio Mansion said that he is in favour of requiring These forty one senators to show up for a filibuster that he's open

to lowering the filibuster threshold from sixty to fifty five that is open to fill of us, form in general, as long as people know that he is not open to getting rid of the filibuster. Mention was asked about this leaked audio and you responded by asking Europe: or who in the hell is the intercept but like I feel like that part of this, hurry, because those are the another lobby stories about the league audio and he says a whole bunch of other things and, of course, is meeting with billionaires. That's gets a lot of headlines. but the news about what he's open to unfair us reform seemed huge to me in kind of buried. I mean is that hope: I feel- and I just what's gonna- did you watch the obey? Fireflies nature, I didn't know I was preparing for this pardon while I should have been because- the right of assembly. Twenty six point, six point waded basically Sacramento season. So now I don't feel did you two? Have I ass adults by might lie everyone? I take it from me.

both of you do not feel hope it hurts it. You know it is. We should should know just the other thing dimension set in there. That is, has got off tension rubbish to settle these billionaires to offer re blunt, the retired we're consented or a job, so they will vote for that. One, Generous Ex commission shit? That's why we're even that was so yeah, be even average already said, be nice be nice, but you might work with robots someday, be nice and try to try to switch is vote on the one six commission, because I need to prove to the left that bipartisanship partisanship can work because then my argument about keeping the Philip

MR, is stronger, which is also very revealing about how mentioned banks in all seriousness, about hope there. It. It is a hopeful statement that they still think the odds are quite long and whether a million miles to travel to get there, but he, his private comments, offer much more room to get something done on the filibuster. The mining crease, the chances of a version of the for the people act happening prior to that phone CALL Bingley to the intercept the strongest belief, based on what measures, as there is no chance for the full buster Therefore, there is no chance of the forest people at this offers a different more nuanced view of that. So if you want your someone who start the capacity for hope, this will be a reason to feel it yeah. I think what I'm looking for now is. Does he get even one republic in the Senate for this compromise? Because what you know like if we some Rakowski says yes, Sir

Mitt, Romney and Susan Collins say I'm interested I'll. Take a look at it. Then you have a situation where you wonder. Ok, if mansion can say, I got a couple Republican, so it's by partisan and my stupid, fuck and standard was it. Must we by partisan, ok, so even if you one or two and its by partisan Katy, Sarah. My two muscle jobs are. I wanted to be Viper then- and I want to keep the filibuster. Ok, fine. So if you get two or three Republicans, can you make an exception for the filibuster this time? Can you lower the threshold? from sixty to whatever. However many republicans you have, and then you are true to your original state, since that you want to keep the filibustering, gets him Republicans, but all oh you're, not gonna get ten Republicans for this com. My than that still ok, like so have I see one or two Republicans come out and seem like they could be in favour of this compromise. Then I'll start feeling hope if you know

for many Republicans, and everyone start shooting at that Mitch. Mcconnell is speaking today. I'm sure he'll come out against this compromise for sure, but that's not what we're looking for we're. Looking for a couple of Senate Republicans to be interested in this, I think I think you might get some people who express vague openness to the idea like once again its eye one. It's a one page. Where document is not a bill, there's time, let us legislation involved. I just cannot imagine a world in which a single republican senator votes for a bill that includes a and partisan German. Yes, it seems like a longshot me to the vote before the voting. Ransack was guided in twenty thirty. There has been no effort to from the Republicans other than this summer, Caskey one person who has a very specific and very narrow view of what you should do being for fixing age. And whole an american democracy yeah, but it's either by minors. There is at least

some daylight here. There is some opening, as I do think, keeping up the pressure. You know not necessarily on this specific original version of age, our one but keeping up pressure on everyone in Congress, especially Democrats to pass something to protect voting rights and election reform, and especially to stop partisan gerrymandering which could cost us the house really important to do, because Europe is still possible. At this point, a party is brought by quip quip. Mouthwash hasn't changed in two hundred and forty years feels debatable, but keep going, I don't believe it don't buy it. Most brands are still selling bid, bulky bottles that are mostly full of water. Now I ll actually still in the area where they were like hey. We just figured out in medicine. This the wash you're gonna love it. It's opium different reports yeah, we always soaked a snake in our water for fourteen days and hours mouthwash.

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Today, President Biden signed a law establishing jus nineteenth, is June, teeth national Independence Day, a new federal holiday to commemorate the end of slavery in the United States and a small important step forward for a country that still reckoning with a dark history but even though, all but fourteen House Republicans voted for the holiday most of the party doesn't want our kids to know why it exists since George forwards murder, a year ago, Republicans of labelled seemingly any attempt to educate children about the legacy of slavery and the effects of, troll racism, critical theory and are currently trying to pass laws that would restrict such teaching in twenty one states. They ve already succeeded in Oklahoma, Idaho Iowa in Tennessee Texas is about, sign similar law and just last week the floor to state borders education voted unanimously to ban teaching critical race theory for two schools. Republicans in Congress have also introduced a bill as well all good culture wars. This one started on Fox NEWS, which has mentioned

critical race theory, thirteen hundred times in just the past three and a half months take a lesson So this is someone is trying to hurt your children, an attack them on the way this is something they can control their skin cholera, Well said. I think that critical race theory, especially when its taught the kids tat, is really form of psychological slavery, is obvious, the aggressively flamboyant we races. I think Competition is a really good way to talk about this. That's what it is. This is indoctrinated kids shot. Thank you. They usually gets its inspiring that someone wasn't gonna, let their kids destroyed joining us to talk about all this is New York or staff writer in Colombia, Professor Giuliani Cobb, whose called these attacks on Chris Maurice theory, quote an attempted. credit, the literature, millions of people sought out last year to understand how George Floyd wound up dead on a street corner. The goal is to leave the next dead black person inexplicable by history. Dulany welcome to the pot. Thank you. I think a lot

people who don't mainline fox all day here about this controversy and ask themselves what is critical race theory. How did this whole thing start and what is actually happening in our schools? Would you mind? Taking a stab at that. For us, I mean that those a gigantic questions, because we can start with the fact that what they're calling critical race theory has nothing to do with what critical This theory actually is and then go beyond that to say that no one's children were being taught critical, raise theory. It is an academic field of study that predominantly, though, not exclusively really better law and litigation, and so

I've been saying unless your child was also taking torts and contract law and advanced constitutional law and fifth grade, they were not gonna encounter critical race theory in any classroom any textbook anyway, so there's that part of it, but it was really kind of disturbing and us nothing ever tell attached to this, that all the people who are denouncing critical race theory have nothing to say about the actual literature you're, because this is an academic field of inquiry. There is a gigantic literature on critical race theory, nobody sites, anything, no one makes reference and no one quotes. Anyone even if some of this is dense legal pirie? No one is going around saying well on this article in this larger and all like. None of them have any view of that whatsoever.

Have they not concerned with critical risk areas, an actual intellectual undertaking, the end, the interested in it as a phrase that includes the radioactive word race that they can use to, and strew white people as the victims, and so the thing we kind of psychological enslavement- that's an astounding you know, no one Wanna Be- would want to be subjected to enslavement of any sort. O wait bout, forty million people in this country, tracer ancestry, back to people who actually were enslaved- and so is this kind of bizarre inversion of it with and is being used as a for political purposes it. When we look at what happened last year with Joy Floyd. I think that the shock of that send people as it should send. People to the archives said people to the bookstore to the library to kind of find out what exact,

Did I do not know? What is the context? How did this happen what are those related to and that translated into a lot of political activity, when people with saying what can you do to honour George Floyd's life? A lot of people said vote. You know that was over once they took, and we saw some some element of that in November, and so in order to curtail the impact of that and the validation of a view of the centrality of race to american society. I've gone after it and distorted it into something else. We we undertake neither bull. It seems to me that what is happening in a lot of schools is, you know something else that happened in the wake of George, for murder is a lot of educators and school districts in school boars and parents too,

wanted to make sure that kids are learning about both the legacy of slavery and the ongoing effects of right, systemic racism, and that's what they're calling critical race theory sort of his catch all just to make. It seem scarier then saying over teaching our kids about racism right, and so we also is a part of it the more established trend that little bit subtler before this time and in which the conversations between the right and the left as it relates to race tend to break down over how much racism is. european society and on the right people who will grant the bear a handful. You like five people in the country, who actually racist and Then you know the left. People have much more interested in talking about institutional practices and the kind of breakdown of the idea.

and systemic racism is just a non starter for people, and this was even back into the Trump era you win Just sessions said that explicitly. There was no such thing as system racism in policing, except that you then Have the confounding question of why you have all of these rights? finally, aligned disparities in american institutions in our housing institutions in our educational institutions, in our healthcare outcomes, in our lifetime in our life expectancy in our lifetime earnings and our home values, we can go to just walk through the data and fine institution at institution at the institution that reflects these big. Our prevailing themes, and so it's really a the same and then, of course, one of the points of this if you move away from the idea that there is a systemic problem with race in this country you

simultaneously alleviate yourself from the responsibly back of actually having to do anything about it. If you have one or two idiots who in an increasingly high barometer facts qualifying as a racist, both if I have one or two idiots who actually qualify those just people to be ignored, and we can do this kind of going to marry way Dan. This quickly becoming one of the republican parties, top strategies for winning the midterms rightwing media is online republican politicians, Rollin NBC news dot com reported this week that the groups targeting school boards are being funded by right wing. Think tank assholes, one of whom wrote the goal is to have the public read something crazy in the newspaper. In immediately think critical race theory,

My question is: do you think this is a strategy designed to excite the republican base, persuade swing, voters or both? I think, that's a bit of a false choice in american politics. Right now he's if we were having a world that is, it exists in a row with a national piper border have running a national referendum. You have to choose between republican base and clinical swing voters, but here in a world of the electoral College, sentimental Porsche major advantages strikes its bay. Plus a little their rights or the american Politics Games inches here so exciting. The base is table stakes what they have to do, but Republicans have seen great success over the long history of the party. In doing this very thing, which is ultimately republican. Politics has been about since this. The southern strategy about making white people scared about how a multiracial advances it towards a multiracial democracy affects their life's right, emphatically: white christian people that the political power and cultural

dominance, baby with our birth rate, is under threat and the place where they have had the most success is in schools right worth because there aren't, you are if they had had six, whether it was textbooks, bussing, critical, race theory of EU Member present Obama was gonna, give aid national address to schools and, in Republicans, went insane over this with a view to adopting the John it's they. They believe, with some historical validation, that there are a group of moderate ish white voters who are for these advances and civil rights and dealing with systemic racism in theory, but in practice. That is where the backlash happens in it in the place where it happened than in the place where that is most personal is in the schools when relates to their children, and so I think there is real political power here in for what reforms are trying to achieve Nothing. This is this. Regions can win them election or the White House whatever else, but it's you

for Democrats. Look at this and say: look at all these polls that show that most people don't know what it is or is completely as giant Johnny points out what they're saying as complete bullshit right. It has no bearing on reality, but too often Democrats focus on facts. Republicans go on feeling, and there is they are sowing real insecurity in disorientation among voters by using these buzzwords in using these in a very alarmist caricature is about food in false representations and what's happening in grants up into it. You know you're about color, but what the kind of mega dynamic of this You know, if you talk about what chemical waste theory actually is. There are literally followed

kind of what it prescribes there would be like telling someone. I think you have a problem with violence and they say I have no problem with violence and to say that I'm gonna put you in the face. You know so it's it's like that, because when the kind of core thinkers and the critical, very critical race theory movement came to the fore, they were looking at exactly vis. The ways in which raise could profitably be used and and cynical ways, and also to the detriment of vulnerable communities, specifically communities of color black people, and to take that this theory, this field of inquiry trying to study this dynamic and then do that is almost like you, like me,

line up a mirror in front of a mirror, and you can look at the reflection bounced back like into infinity this again. Did they doing that if, like inception of the thing like because we're we're saying your Derek Bell and, for instance, one of the kind of cornerstones, Thinkers was talking about this saying that, even as we try to achieve a more equitable and democratic society, we find people working to engineer and re engineer. Racial hierarchies sets a baby in sustainable, even in the face of progressive reforms, and that's what happens when we had the titanic turn out in two thousand. Twenty, a candidate of choice is elected, largely on the strength of african american voters, as

part of this very dynamic, multi racial Cross class alliance. That looks, dare I say, democratic, like your heart, see, and the reaction has been precisely what Derek Bell proscribed. What he was saying is likely to happen in these kinds of situations. so. The embassy story has an anecdote that I think, illustrates the larger challenge here. Last year, school board an extremely wide, fairly blue suburb of Portland Maine It's out a letter in the wake of George voids murdered, denouncing white supremacy, one parent reads the letter. Claims. It says the entire community is filled with white supremacist and that leads to lie suits Tucker Karlsson segment in all these national. Groups descending on this little town, starting a campaign to get the entire school board to resign for supposedly pushing critical race theory. Of course, be schools teaching critical race theory in the letter doesn't call everyone in the town, white supremacist. But the letter does say: quote

we will work to reassess our curriculum and dismantle the anti blackness. All of us have internalized by living in society built on white supremacy now, because we are steeped in the language of progressive politics and social justice. The three of us her like familiar in comfortable with this language, but I wondering like how do you think this land, with your typical apolitical set of suburban parents and, more importantly, what's the most effective way to proceed? those parents that we should be teaching about my effects of structural racism? Knowing that the right will say it's all about teaching kids to hate, why people and hate America joining you? So I mean that's a really good point like I would not, politically speaking her in that letter, but as you know how a letter like that is going to land in its almost predictable and- and I have conversations with people who legitimately first of we're very a historical society, we don't

no fundamental things about our government about our founders, as I was talking with a filmmaker recently in saying that most people who die hard Democrats can point to two how the Democratic Party came into existence, nor can most Republicans you're. We don't even know the origins of the parties we vote for in these ways, so not under standing the way that anti blackness is baked into the structures of american society is par for the course in utterly even set that, apart from a general kind of historical ignorance, I would have parsed that language differently. That said, you know, I think, that in a talker, Carson and Fox NEWS and rests on the people who operate in so cynically. In that context I know exactly what they are doing:

and they like, we do know, had these arguments and had people on their shawls and so on. We know exactly where people are coming from with this and I think a cynically trying to exploit it. Why we end this a question for you too, damn like what the best way, knowing that this is going to happen known that these attacks are out there, that Republicans, as Johnny's arrogant, cynically use this over and over again and twist. These words like, what's the best wavered for Democrats and progressive and activists, to handle sort of this republican war on educating kids about racism. A couple a couple thinks you're. The first is Eddie. You think it's one other point Make about why this is such an imperative. Republicans part of it is they are desperate. Looking further new version, the tea party they gonna fire people are binding, doesn't get their folks worked up like brought I'm so unsubtle we did, but there is like a bigger, like existential threat, to Republicans from the conversation that came out of George Floor

its murder, which is conservatism, is about maintaining an old order in an old power structure, and when you have a big conversation about the tremendous flaws in cruelty that went into that power. not sure it can become very problematic right with it It actually raises the question of whether you really want to make America Riddick ACT as a what that meets, but the price. Well, here is you just can't x in this begins weapon eyes this, although we do not live in a world where we are going to convince April litter, well meeting school administrators and teaches run the country to always here to a set of less easily demagogical language rights? I like it. Just we can't like there is no way that can happen deeper with their incredibly well meaning there trying to do the right thing they have. No expectation that the letter they write to theirs town in Maine is gonna end up on Fox NEWS, labour. That is the sort of where we are so. I dont have like death on a problem we can solve. I think the

is a way to talk about this over all, which is to take a step back and ascribe motivation to the the sin Go people whether Sucker cross into some of these local activist, for what they are trying to do in the folks are not checked. Rosaria folks behind the risks. Narrative have put together a messaging memo on this for local officials to talk about why the about to call out what it is and why these politicians are trying to do. This may varies. I think smartly focus The motivation is, you can do. Is they put it back in schools as easy, as this these same, because I really talk about local politicians, the the councilmembers, the state legislature, trying to you, know, band critical race theory band, the one thousand six hundred and nineteen project or whatever that is So this is never to divide us. They continue to starve. Our schools are the resources that we need

and that what we are trying to do is given accurate rendering of history, and so there is language use, I think, is most effective, but we have to recognise that there's not letters like that are going to continue to happen throughout diamonds. And there's a massive can survive apparatus to go, find those things then turn them into giant stories. there's one you what you think I mean what want that one thought I had is I don't another. We should buy into their framing and and call it critical race theory, because it's their frame and it's not actually wouldn't being taught. As you pointed out you I mean, I think that there is an importance of having these conversations just on the kind of specific part of it as a person.

background in american history, I'm inclined to say we have like founding documents. We have documents that point to these. Various things are meeting to talk about that. We talk about the constitution, the whole constitution than which means we need to talk about the three fifths cause. We need to talk about the protection of the transatlantic slave trade. We need to talk about the future of slave clause. We need to talk about the electoral code. And so these things and then the debates over the electoral college? This is not. You know some committee of Woke activists writing this into history. If you go back and read the debates around of the constitution and the fights over the electoral colleges explicit here that this is what this is doing, is creating a mechanism to give more political power

to southern white people by using literally using the bodies of people they were holding in slavery, and so I think that there is a way that you can get at this by simply pointing people to the original documents, which are, I think, less impenetrable man peoples secretly done things about veil beyond your twitter feed in a minute declaring you a Marxist, its nerve in making these arguments by weight, know that doesn't me: that's John Jay bubble, there's one part of it. I mean, I also think, It's important to not allow them to tonight seed through the mantle of patriotism to them, because one thing that they're trying to do is say that critical raised areas anti american right- and this is about hating. Your country and Nicole Hannah Jones is obviously been one of the main targets of this from the right. You know she treated the other

you quoted the sixteen nineteen project verbatim. Black people have seen the worst of America, yet somehow we still believe in its best, despite being by We deny the freedom and justice promised to all black Americans believe fervently in the american Creed, I do wonder if part of this sort of reclaiming what patriotism and allegiance to America actually means witches, on allegiance to an ideal that were set out, as you said in those founding documents that we have never been able to live up to right, and I think that both the point that even we like to what we are really talking about, I think, are two different conceptions of exceptionalism, like one set of people, think they were exceptional just because we are so fucking phenomenal. Floating rig. We kicked Hitler's ass and we have this. This unbroken able, mostly unbroken chain of peaceful elections. We have often it's what we ve done in a way the greatest

an example of democracy, but blah blah blah blah and other people have a more. I think complicated and enduring sense of being set exceptional in saying that we are flaw Did we have again and again and again tried to be better? and you know what I was taught also with a group of students in kind of jokingly, said in any other context, we willingly adopt this idea of Americans being people who don't always get it right we're distinguished by our willingness to keep trying. That's why rocky with such icon, like Rocky, gets knock down in every round of every fight, like oh, one rockies on canvassed round the rockies only canvas it was like, but over the course of this you get to understand that what makes him heroic is affected. This dude will never stay down, and I think that that is actually

spiralling conception, the saying that this is a society that was conceived in these tight tyrannically flawed ways reaching for this ideal falling far short of and in subsequent generations of people whose names we don't know some of whom. Now we know risked their lives because they would two burnish this ideal into something that was usable for future generations like that is sectional. That's amazing! But that's not! Will we get it's you America, right so now I may tell you got there, he hates you, because he diagnosed with blood pressure is the high blood pressure. They know the axiom really are really stick around that's. Why tell us ok well, and that we will end on that note Giuliani. Thank you so much for coming on POD save America. When we come back we'll talk about them,

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understandings on what's off limits when it comes to I bear a tax, though Biden did threatened to retaliate in the future a saying we have significant cyber capabilities and he knows it. What did you think of the media hype over the summit versus the actual outcome, and do you think that by invokes are happy with the outcome? The way this played out, the media is just a reminder that the so much of political it is about making the ordinary seem interesting and interesting, seem exciting ravages white ass. We discussed here and obviously this book or questions are ingested on matters. Anyone a political who thought put might actually disrobing this meeting, but it's much of that they farm to tell them hard to tell fair, fair political. The he, but it it but much of the coverage had this like sort of steel cage match

ask like public thirty. Two men go, we know a meeting who comes out who wins who lose. It is just a diplomatic meeting richest to people bidding if this is not the first summit between an American and a russian president in decades where they like that they meet Obama, met with Putin all the time and that method of before that Trump, obviously very famously met with Putin in Helsinki. By it is newsworthy, all I get is all it is like. It is fair, it is fair to say it is a bit a story in Washington politics for the weak and maybe even the month. It like Russia is a has an adversary. The embassy interfered in our election theirs, but there's a lot going on there. They ve they play a big role in the world and one that is often

conflict with us it's obviously, China is actually a much bigger deal than Russia, but russian summits get more attention and Russian Europe's racism attention because of the long history of the cold war in summits between Gorbachev and radiant, and all of that pageantry. That comes with it by its fair to say that the coverage wow while was bordering on the absurd impartially. This by invokes also led into the media programme exists, or rather than doing, they could have done. What usually happens is negative. In a bilateral meeting at the G20 and some conference room brocade like getting just right, but is that they were the Geneva summit. There is a lot of pageantry to it. What they think they wanted to make a point: nine, thus over domestic politics, with both to rush and the world that this is a new era in? U S, russian relationships both for good about where we are going to be tougher than we were about, were also going to be less ridiculous. So there was up. There was up

Yet it seems like they wanted to get the message that they want to be that the? U S wants to be constructive on some issues, but also tough on other issues like this. Like the cyber attack issue, where Biden was, was a little tougher one thing that the binding vote fairly weren't you happy about was the president's first response to seen in Caitlin Collins's question about Putin at the it binds press conference after the summit, take a lesson, changes behaviour. Mister Poyser was sir, I said during the war relaxed villages, world coffin stated so before leaving Geneva effort, one by then walked over to grip reporters on the tarmac, tarmac and said this:

tell my last question, an apology. I shouldn't text you, the message of wise guy was the last answer I gave anyway thanks for being here so feisty with a reporter snaps apologizes complains about the press. He said after that clear why do you guys always s negative questions, universe, positive questions to me. It seems like small, fairly standard bit of jousting between politicians and the people that cover them then, is that how it was some the house was treated in on the twitters now it was not treated that way. Take a deep breath to try to handle desire, formulate over so many debates on this week by the last night. the night have deleted tweets up by drafts. Water was on fire about this, ultimately unsinkable eggs. One

It is never a good idea for politicians, athletes, public figures to be jerks to reporters legacy. the nice thing to do more and more often than not it is women orders. You are on the receiving end of those moments all the time is in sports in politics, it's what happens, it's where it is. It was good and frankly, unusual that Biden went out of his way, went over and apologize for doing it. Clearly, what happened is these trips are exhausting for the present. This is the last save a very long front, wrap their jet lag. They haven't slept in a meeting twenty four slash. Seven and he lost his temper and he apologized, for that is a human waited with a decent way to do it, but but but but but but a Mummy and Caitlin Collins is a good report who deserve better. First like this is not yes, it's like if you yelling at Peter do see who was just trying to

your trawl, that's one thing became a counter. The reporter asking her dressing of totally fair question other united so I ask you to ask a question: should have a right to ask, but we need to have a more nuanced conversation about media criticism that a politician, criticising rapporteur even loser timber. The quarter is not salt on the free press. is that I'm alright area, that is there and that is not, as is partisan Democrats that is true of republic in doing that is well. If a republican president did what Biden did not like Whenever I go well trumps at a low bars, I shouldn't talk about Trump. No, I get that. What I'm saying is that both democratic, an republican presence should be able to criticise the media. you you just as you are first amendment right to report a politician or reader or apply

Castro is there. Anyone else is a first member right to complain about what you reported. That's how the fucking democracy works at the problem with, is what gives us certainly fair and appropriate for reporters to go on twitter, defend Caitlin, Collins's journalists angels like that it like. That is what I can colleague would do I like to think we would do that for each other and our friends if they were in a similar situation behind all this stuff about how this was bad Democracy. This is an assault on the free press. Is theirs real, like boy who cried wolf. Problem with this is that we cannot distinguish between media criticism and actual assaults on the media or calling the media itself. An enemy of people are directing violence, The media and liberals on Twitter were responsible for sort of mirth summit is concerned. action in the top era where we would treat, from calling the media, the enemy, the people or banning media outlets from covering the White House or getting therefore want or whatever else with tramping mean to Jim Acosta.

it or whatever else it goes are not the same things in supporting separate them, and there are very, very, very real threats critically in the Trump era to the role of the free press in american democracy. You have governor to satisfy sign a bill only in front a Fox news from thy life work ass, a fox in France. There is like some real things happening here that change the role the press place, but Joe Biden, getting Snoopy with the rapporteur is not one of those things and then it was. It was the coverage and was entered, goes like he gets. Maybe he apologized we'd, like all that's really apologized, that's the right thing to do, and then he complained about coverage after that, and then they got all mad again. We hear about your legs. I saw like a bunch of people were saying. Oh well, Kalen Cons put words in his mouth. She misquoted him by saying. Why are you so confident? You never said he was so confident anyway, that's right, like I did like Caitlin question, but she has every right to ask that question and also Joe Biden could have responded by simply say I didn't say I was confident and then his answer

very easily? He could have just said that it goes and now you're you put words in my region. David said: that's putting words my mouth I did say that and then then move. I got really can criticise that too, but he didn't so. It is how you use happened right. That's why he apologized so there's that, but on the other hand like so many reporters, not Caitlin, but of a whole bunch of other reports on twitter turn. This into some large issue. Brain cells are in his media newsletter last night and by the way it's a fantastic, reliable sources is a great nightly newsletter. I read all the time and I think brains, one of the best media reporters, but he wrote The exact recently asked me if I see a path toward persuading the Trump fan base. That brands like seeing an actually supply real news. Is there a way to show the people who swallowed trumps Anti we realise that we're not the monsters he claimed. We are that were flawed, but not faker enemies. If there is such a path involves days like Wednesday days defined by strong questioning of people in power regardless of party. I just I don't think that's what was like the fact that day is very revealing.

Brian, wrote that, because I do think, a lot of reporters believed that if they show how tough they are on democratic politicians, that Republicans won't call them fake news and Republicans will suddenly stop attacking them. But that's like it's, not their public Tax are on the level there, not waiting for you to be just as tough on Democrats is there in them like they don't think that the free press should exist, a lot of them on the one hand, the mega world right, like their constantly attacking you're, very profession. There call new liars they're trying to discredit everything you do there, not just waiting for you to be tougher on Democrats so that they can say Oh ok, now we're not gonna. Call you fake news anymore. It's a game that there, playing, and I'm not sure enough. Report is quite understand that this is the. The sad truth here that I agree with most people don't get the Republicans waged a decades long war against the media and they won. It is over the Republicans of one that war. They have convinced enough Americans that the media cannot be true,

there. What that means is therefore the days in which large portions of the public all agree that the media is some independent arbiter fact, checker referee of american politics mark democracy is That doesn't mean that the media doesn't subway very important role, the investigative pieces they do are incredibly important. It's all there and there are some media outlets than are succeeding. Despite this businesses and journalistic endeavours and are doing great work. But the old world. In which they could call balls and strikes on american politics is over lost, and this is what happens when some away the war on you. Instead of fighting at you cover it and just just to put a principle on this later in an Brien's newsletter. He notes that lorry Ingram played a brief portion of widens exchange with Collins, but called it quote. A total

meltdown with his own com shop, which is, of course incredibly insulting to to see an end encampments, Kalen Collins for do her job and then half an hour later. She ran a segment titled media dutifully defends, binds mere performance, so it's like, even though the reporters Rosa out Caitlin, was so tough on him and it's important to stand up and problems Well, maybe change! None of this is what's going on Fox, while that happening there bill, shooting all over you. telling you and calling you fake news and saying that you're buttons contract to like Whatever you do, you should still look that doesn't mean reporter should still ask tough questions of democratic politicians and hold democratic politicians accountable. Of course they should, but they shouldn't do it. Thinking that somehow that's going to win over mag of voters in thinking that

you know they can trust the press near the adolescent, Caitlin, Collins or anyone else. Rather, tough question abide inner Obama she Mariposa or any one else. This is really doing because they think it's going to win them plaudits with Republicans, but until you recognise the way the ground is shifted and what is possible and impossible you're not going to be able to adjust the models for how you think about your bid? this for the current bob you like CNN, has viewers they service those viewers, their job is to inform those viewers right in that I'm sure they all regular. It is our job as your whole politicians accountable, and there are some very important, journalistic work. That does that, but you were doing it for the purposes of your viewers. You are no longer knew nothing. You say about Donald Trump is going to change them out of it from further, because Republican spent forty years telling everyone that you were by

The council operates, and you never push back on that in your response to that was to cater to them to offer to basically appeasement right. You're there, the mainstream media response to republican aggression was appeasement, and now the game is over, and so the question is now. What do you do? What is the role you can play? an american politics markets anti american democracy that has value there still is a valuable one is incredibly. We subscribe to a gazillion various news outlets in newspapers and we find it very valuable, but it's not the same role and which I think a lot of journalists see themselves in a lot of sort of american political thinkers. Think of the roll journalism plays american politics. It's not on the level. Ok that a show for today. Thank you so much to Giuliani cop for joining us. Everyone have a great weekend and will see next week by everyone.

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