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Are you a meda, complex cricket to get fifteen percent off that sea Where are u ml dot com such crooked? For fifteen percent, off only for a limited time, Well, replied: save america undrawn favour, I'm unindicted co, conspirator drama tommy on today: show republican presidential candidates descend on. I will state fair mare, garland, give special council status to the? U s: attorney. Investigating hundred biden are of key june. floods in national abortion ban and later representative reuben guy ago, stopped by to talk about extreme heat in arizona and his campaign to unseat pearson cinema by first Donald trump has been indicted for the fourth time a phone call.

the grand jury has voted to charge trump and eighteen other defendants with forty one counts, starting with the violation of the georgia rico act which stands for racketeer influenced and upped organizations. Some of the other notable defendants charge is part of crumbs criminal enterprise include rule. Giuliani, mark meadows, sidney powell, John eastman Jeff Clark, Jenna Ellis, can cheese bro and former georgia republican cheer David Schaefer fulton county district attorney, funny witnesses indictment says the trump and his crew quote, constituted a criminal organisation whose members and associates engaged in various related criminal activities, including, but not limited to false statements and writings. Impersonating. A public officer, forgery filing false documents, influencing witnesses, computer theft, computer trespass, computer invasion of privacy, conspiracy to defraud the state

acts involving theft and perjury and here's the da at a press conference. I make decisions in his office based on the facts and the law. The law is completely nonpartisan, that's how decisions are made in every case. To date, this office has indicted, since I've been sitting as a district attorney over twelve thousand cases. This is the eleventh rico indictment. We follow the same process. We look at the we look at the law and we bring charges who are right and with us to walk through. This indictment is strict scrutiny, melissa, murray, welcome thanks for doing this thanks for having me up late up very late, Oh now, that we're all world rico experts. Now there's been a couple couple hours is perusing twitter. Can you tell us what the go law, is and sort of how funny will sort of combined all of these charges

all these offences under the under the rico law. Let me preface thats bats not a rico expert? Much of what I know about rico comes from my obsessive watching of the sopranos for much of the early two thousands but rico as you said, is a racketeering statute. So it's meant to sort of get at questions of organised criminal syndicates and theirs at the federal level, there's a federal rico statute, which, if you watch the sopranos tony soprano, was always very concerned about federal rico charges, but there also, level. Rigour, charges and georgia has- its own rico statute. What so interesting about funny willis use of the rico statute here is that one she's used it before there is a very high profile. Atlanta teachers, cheating scandal. A few years ago that was prosecuted under the georgia rica staff and she was involved in that prosecutions, as she has some experience with that. The second thing: that's no

all about the georgia rica statute is that it carries a five year. Minimum sentence and the third thing, that's notable about the rico statute in the context of this particular indictment is that there are apparently nineteen people, in this criminal syndicate, Donald trump and eighteen others, and so the fact that there is five year. Minimum sentence for these rico charges and eighteen other defendants, That means there's a lot of opportunity here for people to flip and to cooperate and to provide information, and that's not he related to the thirty other unindicted conspirators that are identified, but not named in this indictment. It's a sweeping indictment, the rico. tattooed allows heard a sort of way out a case with a narrative that is broad in scope and explains exactly what was happening here and why there was essentially a criminal

and again with a former president at the head of it either important, I think, is that these are state charges and they can't be pardoned by trump. If he The elections are to your point about all the people who could flip on trump. Were they to face real jail time? Ah, he can't make them any promises and I should also like this- because I miss stated this on MSNBC last week- georgia is one of the states where the governor doesn't actually have direct clemency privileges, which is to say the governor, does not grant pardons in georgia there's. Actually, since nineteen forty is a state board of pardons and paroles, that makes recommendations ass, you pardon so it's not even like someone could call up brien camp and say like ok, gotta do our guy a solid here. It actually to go through this state board and then be processed and all for a state pardon to happen and again not the same,

the federal pardon. This is not going to change if Donald trump somehow becomes president or if someone close to him becomes president reuse, rye, his eye just in reading it. I I you know, I've never seen a an an indictment document of a former president of trying to overturn an election or before. So this is the first time I read one like this in georgia. Was the critical point there, but were you surprised by how sweeping the acts defining? Ah, the the criminal enterprise were that that how far afield from fulton, county or funny willis is going-

yet mean there are a lot of other jurisdictions involved. Here are some that are not necessarily even in the state of georgia, so coffee county, which is in georgia, as mentioned, but also outside of georgia, and there she was ass during her press conference, whether or not that was going to be an issue, and she spoke to this question and again because they connect back to the effort to overturn the election in georgia. They are properly in her view, within the scope of this georgia rico charge, and so you can bet, there's probably going to be some wrangling going forward from donald trump lawyers about whether or not those additional kinds of charges that take place out of the jurisdiction. Proper under this particular indictment, but she seemed have an answer for that, but I am not surprised by how sweeping This, as I mean this, was a case that has been building for some time. She's indicated that it was going to be broad in scope and in substance, and she kind of

nailed. The landing on this one, at least in terms of the indictment on this, is a kind of indictment that has the kind of fireworks I think we were expecting in some of the other indictments that didn't quite cash out, but this one is really needy la to say, and again this idea this ideal of donald trump sitting on the top of their like tony soprano. At such we pork shop was there anything just skimming through the meant that surprised you and like what you think of the the strength of the overall case. Just from my from here from perusing the the indictment, I was definitely surprised that rudolf giuliani has to middle names. Like was not expand. Labour also appreciate, add how at her press conference, she identified every defendant by their full names like very, very big school marm energy. That was greater than you again. I loved

heart in the indictment again does read like a narrative and where she talked about the fraud on the people all of georgia am, she mentioned, ruby, moss and her daughter, shea and how their lives are essentially up ended by donald trump and the way in which he implicated them as perpetrating this massive fraud in georgia. That really wasn't the case and no to a point that she made and the press conference I think underlies much of this indictment- is that she is heard of law enforcement. She spent a lot of time at the press conference thanking law enforcement, the sheriffs officers for keeping them safe in the courthouse thee police officers in atlanta, but she too is a law enforcement officer, and she made very clear both in this indictment an her prepared remarks that shit

was doing no more than upholding the law, doing her job and doing right by the people of georgia. One other piece of it. Just to your point about to have the impact on people in georgia is the lengths they were going to try to intimidate ruby freemen. Ah, like a lot of Tell about like going to the neighbor's house, saying we're gonna help you hey we're here to help you need to be. I made it just sounds so much like mom. She, like be a shame if something were to happen to you of something non nasty would have come your way if you don't cooperate with us, it feels like it does feel like like, like gangster shit why and saw the charges, sort of have that kind of gangsters shit. Feeling too, it too, like forgery impersonating, an officer I mean it's not like every here is like a high minded criminal conspiracy. Some of it is going to seems like really petty. Criminal, mine stuff like that? You would see, like you know, a corner boys doing and that sort of

The level of at least this is like brass knuckles tactics to try and overturn an election. It wasn't just simply sort of concocting with John this men. These schemes about constitutional law was lacking a bare knuckles. What's forge these documents? Let's intimidate witness, says: let's tell someone that were police officers and invite them here to do this. Like I mean it's of his just kind of relation. Shady shady stuff. She got out at the press conference if she's gonna try all nineteen defendants together and she said yes, what's the significant to that end. Is that gonna be? Is that is normal like? How does that usually were a kid? be normal. I mean often in some of these big cases when it like the most common analogue. I can think from my own experience on was like, like a large multi defendant drugs. I'll where all of the defendants were on trial at the same time, so it's not unusual on its out an orthodox I'm. It is unwieldy, though I mean that's. Nineteen different defend

nineteen different lawyers, then you have to add- like Donald trump's lawyers, are probably going to change five or six times, though, like adding an additional five or six lawyers who will be going in and out and then all of the four motions for each of these defend as an engine dick right now that donald trump is going to do everything. To slow this down, because part of the delay tactic here will not just be delayed. And getting to or trial? It will also be intended to keep all of these eighteen co defendants in law. So that none of them two facts and flips and cooperates so it's maybe unwieldy for her, but I mean again it makes sense to do it altogether. Maybe we all remember when this returning hurry dent indicted falcone crimes? It again and the impact that had on the city in and the way it did, help stem the tide of that that enterprise, and it does not

Thank you for that. There's. A lot of this partnership that don't you might try to get funny was removed from this case. Is that something you displayed as part of the just sort of general like making up the gears process? And she said she what's trial, that six months She does want to trial very quickly that again, I think its consistent with criminal trials. The whole idea of a speedy trial is that none of the government doesn't get to keep. You like. You know honour, rotisserie, spit indefinitely, like they have to you. If they make these charges against, do they have to either approved or your free and you're innocent. So that not a surprise on. I do think that there is a lot of pressure here for the job Joe p m- to keep her in place, because I think the objects of taking her out would be real poor, and you know that are the same georgia republicans who their republicans for sure, but there also

the ones that kind of stood up to trampling making rations burger. Who is like an hour now? I can't find you those votes like they ve, been pretty principled on the things that have, hounded- and this is something that I think really count- I dont think they can band his will and remove her on the view that she, somehow, targeting hemming she's been pretty much above board with theirs, and she was very clear in her statement. Like you know, I'm not prosecuting him out of spite and profit bring him, because this is where the facts are an it's an indictment. It's just a set of allegations. It's now my duty to prove these charges beyond. Reasonable doubt, and if I doubt these people are listen and they are innocent now until proven guilty beyond a reasonable doubt, and I'm sure one of the first moves from trump's legal team will be to try to get this case moved from state court to federal court. Do you think that's like likely to succeed, or what would you put the chances are that I mean again

early, the standard for federal court removal really requires on the presence of significant federal questions or significant overlap, and there is some overlap with jack's miss case, but there's also a lot, that's quite distinct, and that is very specific to georgia and georgia's own body of laws I think that might give a federal judge PA. as in the hearing, a request, to remove thus to federal court to be clear, even if it were removed to federal court? There's a lot here that, I think, is really midi for a jury to get into whether it's a state, jury or a federal jury. But I think at most and most pressingly for donald trump and any effort to remove this to federal court is nothing more than a delay tactic, first and foremost a slow this down. If they were to try to move this to federal, Where would that make it? A federal rico case is that I would work because then, together take his stuff

I think that's one of the reasons why there's so much georgia specific stuff here, like the georgia rico statute, is different from the federal rico statute and it's not clear that it's easily translatable. So when I say like, I think, there's enough here that is very specific to georgia. That would like require it to be heard in a georgia tribunal, as opposed to a federal tribute. that's what I'm talking about. I'm. They dont think that they were translate as easily to a federal rick us? I don't think it's like you know you moved a federal court. Now it's a federal rico case. If you were coordinating the the global defence for donald trump of all these cases is there one that you would be most worried about? No, having seen all of them, terms of all of these indictments yeah, I mean like on the mar a lago documents. Cases like we have photos of fucking top secret documents sitting next to the toilet and he's you know, deleting footage from the tapes released. Attempting to answer seems like he's dead to rights there. This case is the state based case that his broad sweeping reclaims wondering if, if at first blush does one of these, you think is the most concerning

for him. Legally speaking, so, if I were running the foresees ends legal tat, the elite strike force. What would I be concerned about the fact that your indicted in this document, the fact that we have an indictment for every year of this guy's presidency is notable, and maybe I think you have to if you're thinking globally. Like that's a lot to sort of, keep in the air. A lot of balls to juggle like most criminal defence lawyers, are dealing with one major criminal prosecution. and not, for and not while you're. Also too, to minister to a client who is famously irascible famous we and motivated to listen and also campaigning for president. At the same time, so I would be worried about this georgia process. You shouldn't for sure just because of all the different ways in which it has really broad

legal liability in terms of the exposure of all of the participants and the fact that so many people could defect at any time and the fact that there are these thirty other unindicted co conspirators who like, like zombies, I guess could be river and brought into this, and so that's of real concern, but the jack smith. Prosecution, the mara logo, documents and the january six prosecuting those are not to be laughed at either, and then you have alvin brag in manhattan there, the civil liability with jesse James in new york and the trump organization the neck. each jean carol, defamation suit. I mean that's a lot of balls to keep in the air. I dont envy his lawyer, is at all I mean no one should envy his lower than the worth a job in the world, and it usually means that you're on your way to getting your own attorney at some point. But this is a bad bad situation. I think in terms of just case management and trying to keep all of this all of these ducks in a row.

spit real crime, but fair YAP. Speaking of leah speaking of lawyers, many them indicted. In this document you have Ruiz. All over this thing, John EAST winds here sitting powell is not just reference for her involvement in a few of the different schemes, but also for lying about I think, she's. I think she's of the people mentioned directly for doing doing some perjury in here. What are you hurt very light, some light perjury. What are you doing? from this that so many of his lawyers are included to be lower actually representing him at the time, are included in this indictment meant slot agree, save for the profession I mean any everytime. One of these indictments drops, I think we say on strict scrutiny. It's been a pretty bad day for the profession, and it's not a great Look for lawyers, I'm so many people have lawyer site, thou idea of lawyers, sharks being unprincipled unethical. This just feeds that per se.

John and I dont know that it is an accurate perception was of the lawyers I know are decent are committed to doing the right thing on. This really does I feel anomalous. But what really strikes me as like these are people so enthralled and the cult of donald, that they're, not only willing choose or to put their professional reputations on the line and service of him, they now in a position where there are likely putting their liberty at rescuing, typically I'd, even like the sky and the appeal as I can even imagine like putting. the licence on the line for him much less my liberty, avian so obvious when you get really close to him. He's really appealing, but I just don't understand the appeal at all, and I dont know why you would do this for the sky, most murray Thank you, as always for helping on pod save america, especially so late and Walken. Is this indictment? Alright, thanks for having me well, that was worth the wait

I will tell you what happened you re. We recorded the pod on Monday afternoon, like we usually do. We thought that maybe the indictment would drop right aphorism. We come back in record, they block, and here it is nine pm pacific time. Yet we came here We wanted to wait and respect for you are dear listener do not say. Oh yeah, I will give you an indictment bonus. You're gonna get into it yeah. I thought I will give it an hour for this thing. I dunno how long it takes them to pdf down there in georgia, but the fucking two and a half hours just get the thing uploaded and has quite a long time. I thought the judge was going to read some names, but the judge did not read the names he just meant. He just had one look on his face them, as I now only already live there. president on here wicked that wait, I'm sorry! This can't be right. What do you guys think do they? We got em anything security in the diamond to know we ve been. We ve been written through these things as fast as possible. Her well. One thing I just one in their funding also said is that she likes rico she's a fan of rico.

and of regal. I've told people that the reason that I am a fan of rico is, I think, jurors, are very, very intelligent, but they want to know the whole story. They want to know what happened. They want to make an egg a decision about someone's life and so rico, is it that allows a prosecutor's office in law enforcement to tell the whole story. We of rigour. We love rigour. We folks rigour? We love without beautiful fabulous rico, but she talks about the fact that she likes it implies because it gives or the ability but when you have a jury, they want to understand the whole story. They want to like understand the whole story of what the crime was not just the very specifics, but the larger narrative of what people were up to in that that rico gives her the ability to do that, and it's just so. It's still jarring to see in just in an indictment, the connection between the public statements and the private planning and then the criminal acts that took place late,

seeing it all. We ve together, not just in georgia, from state to state, to state and to see it said so plainly that when trump was on television and saying that the election was stolen, that we should look at in georgia that they're dead people were voting in Michigan, whatever he was saying that in those statements cells might not have been a crime, but they were in furtherance of a conspiracy to overturn the election and part of a criminal enterprise, but about what the one point that melissa made and she talked about how some of these were just like. They weren't they weren't all like high minded crimes right like when you read the the the d c indictment for that of over the election, the jack smith case. A lot of it is, you know its violation of the constitution and any no conspiracy,

I was struck by some of the the axe here. You know in georgia, members of the enterprise stole data, including ballot images, voting equipment, software and personal voter information like to talk about this week with the legal set aside, but just to talk about this from a political standpoint and You know persuading people that yeah donald trump breaks. The law is part of a criminal enterprise like stuff like that Hacking into voting machines, data, stealing data that'll, be complicated, cause they're going to say this. Election official gave us a letter and invited us blah blah blah, but I agree with you that is sort of an easy to understand us is also soliciting this minded when selecting the vice president present violate the constitution. We've seen that one before creating fake documents, harassing election officials

creating and distributing a false electoral college documents, the way they phrase. It is part of this broader rico case, which is a criminal enterprise with donald trump at the helm. It does make it all make more sense and feel more salient, and also just it puts it in a like. It takes it out of the political context you and puts it in a like a law and order tv, fuckin crime. Context of these were forgeries. Is where a catch me. If you can, fake, fucking electors, and then you might end up with like ruby freeman on the stand saying my family was terrified. They came to my house. She did with her daughter during the january six hearings very powerful and you can be back on the stand telling that story. Is we really powerful to see not unlike a congressional hearing not like with Paul, not with politicians around, but on the witness stand in a trial while- and you say powerful to see that the other big thing here in terms of the politics which is if this case does stay in a state court? If it's not the federal court. This judge has already ruled that there will be cameras in the courtroom, and this will be the trial of donald trump that we see like every day.

On television, are gonna, be much different than getting ripped It's about it when it's like the jack's material, no puppet, show system. Eliza said let when it when eliza her, that the things you tell that he shouted let's go like you like. I have more three should brief. Three, I cant do a sports drought, while sitting on boards thing, Lastly, and this is a good thing it, wherever than wandering where's mcmanus where's, my bet us our glasses in this document, he s got the council the rico statute and he's charged with so listening solicitation of violation of both by public sir. So it's gonna be a end. Cameras allowed the quorum. These sheriff has already said that he will be getting a mug shot of donald trump, how they will be doing anything different than any. that for anyone else, how otherwise, how we know who the living at the vague escapes we had to put something out: gonna get ourselves a mug shots.

Also by the way we don't know individuals, one through thirty, we don't have any of those people have already cooperated yeah. I know there's some are very rare, just recording couple of minutes after this broke, but there were some ones: cups, customs speculation that a someone someone high up has probably flipped the unindicted co conspirators that was part of the the oval meeting where they were talking about a accessing, voted out, augmented found his living. Like you tell them, I will say what ever thing whatever they get me, the thumb mark out of this year me out of this to morrow. I will tell them what ever they want six months. She said that brings us to february march. That is like march. Is the alvin brag is jack. Psmith wants early january, this could be february or march. Who knows what cannons to do with the documents case, but that is a that's quite it or like twenty kick off to twenty four, for

look we're only life, there's no way. This happens in six months. You no way. selves and so complicated with as many people night, yeah. The only thing that is that that is the drawback with nineteen defendants cause they're all if you stay, if you Don'T- and I think a judge can step in and separate the case if they want, but she definitely wants to try them all and have till August was an august. Twenty fifth august twenty fifth, the surrender like that phrasing. Putting

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counselor pound cow, made a butter. You check out the giant steer that sitting in some ag tent and then domain register s amicable, soap box, which gives you a chance to speak directly to voters and take some questions and then The republican governor Kim Reynolds has been hosting what she calls fair side chats hey. It is usual desiring me when you get it, I know it will become a marathon. I was like a fire o o fair saw. It hurts your ears, it hurts rears its it. Actually, it's not great, etc. It's a jack air side chats. Basically, she software questions a candidate in front of an audience in cell. Look ina like party your job is have a good time. You it's in deep right. Twinkies brok obama went on buffer cars with Sasha back in two thousand seven. They went on some other his guides and stuff. You see me ball. Did that to you

You know he played some of the like kind of rigged games. You play, we shoot water into a thing. You get a prize, hey we're not that rigged. I I think I've been twice and the fried stuff is the best delicious is like success is. Did he get some press coverage did he talk? Some voters. Did you come off looking like a normal human being? Who actually has fine at things like a fair? Yes, ok, you did the fair right and so and she doesn't have anything. Normie saw clips of obama alike right on the barber cars and in tune with his daughters and thought. That's a normal guy. I like him. I like his family. I should think descent, this kind of succeeded in the same way for four locals here like he walked. I was one of his daughters on his shoulders. Seem like a normal guy went to them. Requires not only dollars you promised and even older. They looked exotic. I think you know some of these Both the voters are like. Oh, that's, a cute family if you've got a better way to come up with how we pick who's in charge of medicare. I'd like to hear it. It's deep, fried snickers, deep, fried oreos pickles

deep, fried pickles, deep, fried twinkie. You had butter butter, deep, fried I don't look. I love, as you know, I love food. It's something that and people to realise, as you don't need to be at the state fair to eat like you're at the state, fair, which is something I I that's. What I put that on my tombstone I was not there for this- but in two thousand and four- I guess bourbon, two thousand and three John Kerry went to the iowa state fair and ordered a strawberry smoothie in the smooth, so David wade or someone. I immediately tried to get him a corn dog corn dog in his hand when you think this is John Kennedy's, abs and ass day in hollywood, you're in the sea, yeah that's a reference to a boy. That's right! Six berries instructors get that one! I I like the human weird interactions, someone handed mike pence a toothbrush and said, keep smiling like. I think, that's not ever going to happen in six months

you won't be again at it, but so trumps visit was pretty quick. You didn't grill it in sit down for the fair side chat with him. Reynolds problem because he's been attacking her for a month he rolled in with a bunch of florida politicians, presumably to troll rhonda santas, and he was gone by two p m on saturday, but not before a quick speech where he was introduced by mad gates and then he was shouted some actions that he answered, but for some sharing with you like washington, DC to overturn yes, theatres, the answer is, yes sure did. What do you think he meant by that because I I sometimes I can't tell if he's you know, he goes through phases. Where he's proud he's, I guess I did try to overturn the election because the election was rigged. Sometimes he sometimes he admits it. I think he's saying you know my answer. Their question is the the

She was stolen. I was trying to get the right person. You know his interviews, inured gates, you gotta make change through force, whatever they were doing personality, that's what they were doing outside the capital in the same way that he's now claiming that if you come after me, I'm coming after you was actually about political action committees, yeah, right and jose yeah he's he doesn't like packs, so the dissenters people are accusing trump of snubbing iowa. They said he's acting like he's entitled to the nomination. How much do you think any of this matters? to drop tommy. I think it is a matter in the margins like the I will carcass gore's. A little bit pampered they're used to being catered to, and I think if they feel snubbed it may be thou be effective. I think the bigger problems that trump is just half an hour. Madame anymore, you didn't flip pork had circuits the florida congressmen flip, the port form whatever that visited sudanese cuff links that everything you the measures used, are you going to do a catacomb? He has no thank you. I mean, I think, you're right and it's tough. I don't I also these people. These people will caucus for him if he's sitting

in jail, they're, probably going to be upset that he missed the butter cow. I think there's something like. First of all, I think it is tough. I think it's tough to make the argument that that that that trumpet snubbing iowa wise in iowa. He was in iowa at the time and yeah he's not do In these events, these catechol events like he did. He didn't do the one where you know Tucker carlson repented. He won the lincoln that he didn't do this one and Degeneres yeah. He didn't rise. One can remember what it was. You know he he just seems bigger than all these people sitting down for these things, so is entire visit was designed to troll rhonda santas and stubborn is covered. Only that's your bigger.

Well, I just think that, like he doesn't do he does his own events. He doesn't go and sit down the same seat. That penn sat in the same sense that that vivek ramaswamy sits, and he doesn't do that shit anymore. Here. I would argue that his attempt to troll pence was probably more important than his visit because, like I think that whole primary, like trump is, is, if is a unique circumstance. Trump. Is this known quantity, the vast majority of republican voters? They know donald trump, they like donald trump. They think he did a great job as press. and they are at least considering supporting him again. So the question then becomes: is there any other candidate out there? Who can present a credible alternative to donald trump, and so is more money? for them? It is for him, and he probably knows that he's ok, I'll know me. I can do it ever yet. It's probably right I just think like. If you're gonna fly your ass to iowa, you might as well stay for more than two hours and do some of this stuff like routinely continually snobling. The very popular

Republican governor of iowa is just stupid. Will then I wanted. I was different that at that is, I think, a bad. The case of just like, even even now there, his own campaign advisors are saying that europe had to go this heart africa, but I mean that that's where the context that this was asked for of rhonda sent us and yet the trumps campaign adviser said the two biggest mistakes we made our snubbing came reynolds and having dinner with nick winters then you're nazi with canoe ass. I didn't like cable. He admitted that weakness. Like you look at the new york times, Paul was forty four tromp twenty two scientists and then about half from support said they would consider other candidates, so is his strategy, is snubbing iowa going gonna hurt him, I kind of doubt it, but, like he's not running hard to gain more support, so we'll see so disinterested, spend the weaken getting marked by the trunk campaign they interrupted. His interview with

reynolds by flying a plain overhead with a banner that red be likeable ron? That's funny man! I love you know at every so often campaign. That's like that! You have an opponent any just you got their number, you know, and it just becomes really fun. It was like us me and twelve. It was like fishermen in oz, you don't you the trump people they are in his head. They ve got his number be like over. It's such a funny command, philosophical or- and this is the response that it has got from the crowd. While he was flipping pork chops, that's gonna suck One trump and we love tromp, there's a mix of both of us, but you know Zella we're not when, when, when, like someone shouts only my visit pants or a tree or dissent as they have some funny, charming quipped to come back at than with their just like they just like the one. We are familiar terms yeah well that

at, I would say, setting a deeper issue. The thing I want to know is: look this dissonant trolling certainly influence it. In conversation and a lot of the national coverage. I would love to know what was on like the b kcc either the local tv- and I bet you- it was a lot of b roll of the around us and this and all these candidates having fun and talking from the soap box and carrying their kids around. While so on that note dissenters, his team told, has been telling reporters. They told politico playbook this that they think he's in a despite all all the shenanigans from the weekend. They think he's in a better position than trump to win iowa. They said he is further ahead than ted cruz was at this point twenty sixteen, when crews beat trump that he's in the middle of visiting all ninety nine counties, he's already got ten thousand caucus commitments. What do you think of their argument? Tommy's, I d just just spend, or do they have a point. I mean ten thousand supporter cards at this point is not nothing but there is one I will with fifty one thousand votes. So is a long way to go out, and it is interesting,

at the guy running distances, his super pac is named Jeff roe and who's also ted cruz's conciliar. He back in the day things dizziness has going for him, these buds with Kim reynolds the governor they're. Clearly investing in fields he's gotten some endorsements and when all these bus tours and like putting real time into the state. The questions I have are, how does a super pac run your field program? That just seems confusing to me and in weird the super pac is setting up his events on these bus busters. I just like I just kind of don't get. and dissenters, really does have votes that may piss off farmers on the margins like a ethanol ag subsidies, etc. He also has a terrible personality and sociaux that were not like now, like ted cruz, winning any. I miss congeniality awards, but but I yet I do wonder too. It's like every

for years. This gets worse, like the race being more national people already. Having a sense of de santas, you know: crews kind of coming from behind to win I'll at that time was with a lot about trump to the kind of the fact that, like things were coalescing around trump- and a lot of people really unsure about that, especially like the Evan jellicoe right in the more conservative right. I just I just wonder if it's like you know, you're gonna eat, look, not doing as bad as crews was improves one, but a lot of change I mean tommy. I feel it. That was a theme of your the limited series you did in two thousand and twenty, when you went out to iowa that, like the changing nature of sort of nationalized race, vs local, like what did you or how? How? Where do you think we right now and that its. I think that the racism it'll be nationalizing me. We talk about Tucker carlson was asking questions at a big iowa republican fundraiser, that's about as nationalized as gets. I think, like I, I heard from a bunch of reporters this weekend that the

or of dissent, is disaster narrative, maybe at bottomed out, and that he was starting to do better than you. Expect that wouldn't surprise me years ago, by the way get better at campaigning. As you go like a barack obama sucked for awhile, and then he got better and better and better insert hit his stride, so the the broader question I have is: what is your strategy, because the key? jay about? I was you'd, have to win our? U have to exceed expectations and there's multiple tickets out of iowa What does that look like santas, because it donald trump wins iowa. He didn't in twenty. Sixteen, What do we think is going to slow him down going into south carolina a couple of weeks later, where I think the last poll had him with fifty percent? You know, I think it is a little harder than it would be traditionally for the santa like the. How are you gonna put together enough votes from trompe syphon away, consolidate all the the never trump folks or the sort of you know trump curious folks who seem movable. I just like we haven't seen any evidence that he's done that cause you can you can maybe

if you stretch, see a scenario where trump wins iowa to scientists gets close second and then new hampshire does what new Hampshire does and rejects. I was choice and disastrous wins new Hampshire, son house and many. But then you write that you get the south Billina and it's an extremely conservative electorate were down. Trumpets is way out in the lead. So our friend TIM Miller, was in iowa for the state fair, and I was listening to him on the the next level, his bulwark podcast and he said that dissenters, super pac people were telling him that they have started to think about a strategy and they told him. It was ok to say this publicly that they are starting to think about a strategy and plan for a possibility where DE santis gets second iowa to santa

It keeps getting seconds and thirds and just piles up delegates does not get a majority. They don't even think he gets a majority delegates and what happens? Is they get closer to the convention? Because de santos has the second most delegates after trump jack smith and funny willis do their jobs and suddenly trump's in a big way go mass and there's a brokered convention and they try to take it away from trumped up the disease. people are saying that that's the same exact that has existed in also also Chris Christie has been telling had telling people about his sort of like what he thinks could. Potentially. This man was in the lower timeframe. Fiction about aberdeen straight far from here are the ogre convention, where everybody gets behind their favorite person rhonda santa also there were, there will be a couple contests and then the pressure trumpet put on everyone else to drop out will be show intense. Out of these whole message drop out. We need to work together and veto, but which also from select ability argument then is gonna, be if it's not

I'm gonna burn down the whole fucking. So look good luck, beating Joe Biden without me, and my supporters rihanna. So you're gonna take it away from me, even though I'm in jail or whatever he is. I I mean, seems to be a few missing steps there, but the whole point of it is it does sound like fan fiction, but it is a little alarming if you're descent, a supporter that people in a super pack or laying out that possibility now. Yes, he had used of yours, energy is to turn to lose but hang around probably something about the state of Europe, your hopes and dreams so Here's a politico have learned from the weekend. Pants is having a moment he qualify for the debate. As you know, and I thought you might know, qualify for the way he did. He leaned his criticism of trumps attempted coup at the state. Here in the islands he met, responded by saying things like I appreciate what you did keep smiling

and this in hand for emphasis, I'm glad they didn't. Hang you so so evident in you. I want to say that the person who said I appreciate what you did. This is how this person is described. A man and cut off t, shirt, shorts and hiking boots told him, and I think it is a real the service by that order to not let us know if that's countryside were gay style right like what are my picture. My picture, Is there beer? What are we would have? What are we? What am I looking at with this cut off cause like that? Guy? That's the guys, for your visit meditation, because it's like is this: a person is, as alike, is a person of the hours do state fair is a Republican to some gay dude is jan at mike pence in a way that I think is great or like that guy. That said, you think you are let's, let's take a I figured educated- I'm not going to sit here and guess, based on a cut off a lot of people were cut offs. We dunno, I dunno what I do. I can't picture the cutoffs which a lot of people are cut ups and then talked to my parents, the other day,

I bet yelled at the guy that yelled I'm glad that in hangar he was in an iowa city, yacht club t shirt which made me laugh because how could there be a yacht club? It's iowa, there's no water. Ok, maybe landlocked, and today it's it's it's a music than you. Ok, and I was like- I think that either I don't know that Gaza, I don't gaza propane republican thinking, be out one of us and they do things like pits- is up areas where the cut off item. I don't know, if he's gay their here's an actual, hence line from one of his speeches that day. Somebody did tell me the other day. They said I get the feeling you got a little biased for states that start with an eye and end with an air? No one. Not may well be true yeah indiana, That was one of those big applause lines holy shit. He is Negative charisma, negative. I it's ok look. I know you have a lotta, I mean it,

he's having a moment in it like sights to feel but good for him for like going a there and leaning into the criticism and donald trump stuff like it's, not gonna win and the republican nomination, because those people, like what happened. If he could have wanted one conversations with every voter, he might be able to explain his constitutional duties inch penury six by one of these got the time I don't think he'd make it through all the voters, because one of them would hang him yeah the titanic as having a moment your our radio, just after the iceberg, just like everyone's talking about the titanic from the atlantic, so pence's flipping burgers in a reporter heard someone crowd whispered the following. Look at him, sweat. Someone behind me said he's a dweeb, and so is the santas young man from cedar rapids named Jacob. Who declined to give his last name told me: you just want to take their lunch money. It's instincts, This is why the irish state bears by this should have been dolly, was does day so pence we'll have to contend with not only trump into santas, but first time candidate, vat remo,

Ah me, a thirty eight year old businessmen whose vowed to spend hundred million dollars of his own money on the race to new poles, now show him edging out to santa's for second place nationally he's gettin, decent crowds, and I are end, and that is despite do this at the state fair, the

I just went. You know I hated hearing that it hurt so much it hurts and he's done it so many times he loves it. What's going on with this guy, what's the what's the appeal, when you guys think the appeal is for vbac, I dunno the fuck. peal of this guy. I do, I think, part of it. I would I, when I was visible there were some. There are some look like his pulling success in some of it is based on like sick certain internet poles were here, it's like doing a little bit better and those are polls where they're kind of pre selected to be part of the samples who knows, but what I it reminds me of just when republicans were casting about- and there was this period of time or like Michele Bachmann was in the lead and, like other random people kept popping up and it wasn't there. There were things that were doing that were interesting to the people hearing it, but for the most part it was more or less a story about the strength of that person and more about just the weakness of the field and people look for alternative. So someone sent me an onion headline that says: pissing I love to piss, says Rhonda saint as it,

We the treble covered seated with a voter, yet yeah, and I think, I think, he's doing a better version of I have got from policies with an optimistic, positive vote. but then I then TIM Scott has also been doing more extreme versions of a lot of people's policies like he's going after that super isolationist isolationist anti rain crowd. We saw that in that, in the event with them talk cross in he's tapping into the wood, you're, like IRAN, Paul conspiracy crowd. Then at last we talked about a clip where he was of questioning the night, in attacks in the raw, the saudi intelligence, with hijackers keys soup. Anti government, while ride the santas, is talking about slitting throats vaca, saying he's gonna fire, seventy five per cent of the workforce, so I you know, look I think this is you see this happen early, sometimes

if a candidate, the kind of catches a little fire they're, not attacking anyone, no one's attacking them. I would like to see him take a punch in and then what happens? I bet he has a bunch of old statements that are getting dredged up by researchers as we speak in the wrapping is horrendous. Renders hurrah it's funny. You said that you think he's doing like the more optimistic or, though the optimistic message better than TIM Scott. I thought he is like the version of Ronda santas that the all in podcast wanted, laying he's very because in that story the irreverence eleven about the polling into the other theory. There is that doing well with high information, high interest republican voters, college educated? They are paying more attention to the millions and millions of dollars very spent on digital and tv ads they just know about and because they're followed their online. There terminally online rate and he's charismatic.

Like he's a charisma in he end, and it's he's appealing to some young republicans who like for them, the antiwar stuff ism is important. He's got, you know, he's good. He goes out there on the stump and he's doing his ten. Minced number one god is real number two. There are two genders number. Three reverse races racism and he gets like wild clause will download any he's getting bigger crowds and better placed than rhonda sentence and everything There's there's a bit of like there's a there's, a reason that, like IRAN, has appealed to the right. It's kind of like it's. The same reason that trump appeal to a lot of people, which, as he has his business background, he talks about it. He has a kind of he has that tech technocratic way of speaking that seems smart and feels modern and less creepy blake was an outsider and an outsider, and especially inside of the republican party, which is how you know he. He is interesting and different in that he's talking about these policies, but doing it with this sort of, like you know, silicon valley, spin,

Also, I think unemployed too, is putting a lot of time and effort in he's been doing bus tours for weeks. I think overtime units bear some fruit yeah. Alright, let's talk about the guy. These republicans are trying to replace joba and his cabinet or barnstorming the country this week to celebrate the one year anniversary of the inflation reduction act, happy anniversary guy you but the president got some annoying news on friday, when attorney general merrick garland, announce that he's giving you s attorney david, why special council status for his investigation of hundred biden, whose pleaded with Weiss fell apart after the government, refused to guarantee immunity for future charges? Republicans who previously demanded that wise get special council status, reacted by accusing garland and Biden of doing this to somehow protect hunter, which makes no sense whatsoever. But political reported. The people inside the white house worried that this will hang over Biden's reelection. What do you guys think? How worried are you and how do you handle this? If you're in the white house, the Biden campaign, if you're a democratic official, you know I've seen a bunch of and heard a bunch of

address on background, saying, like binding and democrats need to do more to distance themselves from hunter bam? I'm not sure what that would look like yeah, I don't know, I think one of the challenges that, like they ve already, on everything that you're supposed to do to keep you keep it separate from the white house there saying all things are supposed to, wait, not saying really anything when they shouldn't be saying anything, and I think part of the challenge right is that, like merrick garland has, I think, always kind of he he really kind of takes in this. I yeah that, like you, have to seem impartial and that, if you're being accused of being politicized- and you have to go even further- to try to prove that you're not being politicized and that sort of been his ammo you think you're tired, I'm not

it doesn't seem like it's what he did here, because it does seem like the request came from wife from weiss, ah, but ah ah, it doesn't but like, and I think it's telling that this move, which republicans originally had said, was necessary. It is now a sign that its even more corrupt than they ever could possibly imagined, because that the reality is that nothing about this becoming a special council makes the special council more independent Is anyone doubt that what miracle was saying wasn't true, which is that this person had the freedom to make their decisions is, however, they saw fit you. I mean just medically, I'm pretty worried about this. I think it's going to dog them for awhile. I think reporters are gonna, feel pressure to cover hunter's trial like it's a trump trial, because they don't want to be called bias. It'll be a huge distraction and I think that so are republicans on the hill, despite having nothing to work with, have just been straight, applying in saying that there is a connection to Joe Biden that he somehow profiting off of whatever hunter Biden was doing, and

there there basically pushing on an open door with an argument that is basically like all politicians are bad. You know they I'll do it. There are corrupt and I still haven't got something it's easy to convince people of. So I also don't really know what it would mean for Democrats or Joe Biden to distance himself from hunter, like I think most Democrats are saying if he did something wrong, prosecute him and that's what I am for most for Joe Biden. began like the idea that he should shun his own child? I think, is fucking gross and only a dc argument. You would hear again: he lost a wife lost a thirteen month old daughter and lost bow. Was older son Them have died and if you read about, if you I read hunters book and it's a miracle that he is still alive and the idea that Joe Biden is going pushes son away in this very difficult chapter. political reasons. I think you know that's him in July. he's. GonNA. Do I do give iron that out in the white house? I would say you have to stop getting so defensive when you're asked about this like peter, do see. The other day was like asking about the devon archer testimony that had occurred,

any east. You know he just like criticise me said is a stupid question or something like that. It's ignored not you have to know. This is serious. You know be a dad answer like a human being, but I don't think you can. I shouted people for asking. I think what our will be perceived by almost every voter is a legitimate question or particular, because the actions that Joe Biden has taken or that his department justice has taken are like over and above what you're supposed to right. Like again Joe Biden and merit garland, allowed a trump appointed. U s attorney! Who began this investigation under donald trump to continue his job and then allowed him. Have whatever powers he needed and then he just said he wanted special council sadness and they gave him that so another is a special council who was appointed by donald trump, who is free to investigate and charge hunter Biden with whatever he wants, and he is within the united states government in Joe Biden, administration, and so

you're right, like that he he's tipp, he's done all the right thing, so you write the heat that he doesn't. He shouldn't be so of a pistol yeah, I know for sure he is any there's like. I think so I think that's the sort of like the political legal argument, along with making clear that all of this is tied back two hundred right and not to Joe Biden, but then there. I think this This, like a human argument to a tommy, was saying, which is, I think that there is like and this is not something that the Biden would be saying: you think it's something Democrats can be saying which is something like, I think a lot of americans know what it's like to love someone in your family, whose struggled with addiction made terrible mistakes with in their lives and and struggled with how to make sure you show that person love while understanding that they ve done the wrong thing right, and I think that, like that piece of it is something that I think people I think people have been allowed. We would just find this whole story just hard to know what

to say, and not wanting to give into it and just wanting to go away, but I think you need that piece of it and I think, where republicans are trying to go with this is not necessarily. They know that that's coming. So I think what they're trying to do is you know the two iris agents, the testified that were like well, the department of justice slow, walk this now the department of justice that that their contention is the department of justice. Slow, walked it's starting in the trump administration, so that doesn't really make all that much sense. But that's out there you know TED cruz out there being like he. This is the. It was basically a Joe Biden who's getting all this money cuz, he was just saying. Know? Selling Joe Biden's name and, and perhaps hunter was selling Joe bynes name, but what they're going to try to do is connect it to Joe Biden right and they want they will. They know now that to get Biden they need by

wrong doing, and they can't do the hunter banks, while the diverting the name on the hundred banks, but they know it's not fruitful as as that's not his fruitful if they can get. But it's not it's. It's that the blue, the right wing ecosystem, Joe Biden, is a criminal. It is divided crime, family. He is complicit in his sons, crime! That's done they're trying to get it into the into the mainstream and they don't have the goods to get it or they want a subpoena like the whole family's bank records and all this didn't have the girls, I do think they ve gotten into the mainstream considerable amount, considering how bullshit it is. I died let us agree that I think this is a story about corruption and Joe Biden seems to be defensively defending his son. That's a loser for them! If this is a story about imperfect families and addiction and, like you know, loving your son through thick and then I think that's a very human thing that people can understand,

Finally we get yet another weird story about are of key junior. The ant I've acts conspiracy, fearest, who is for some reason, attempting to run in the democratic primary at the irish state. Fear he said: he would support a national abortion ban after the first three months of pregnancy was asked multiple times ali retaliate, NBC news, but this like she gave him an opportunity to clarify he kept saying. Yes, no. This is what I want and then later his campaign said he misunderstood the question: where do you guys think happened here? You think he misunderstood the question I read the transcript doesn't seem like it to me I'll. Tell you what I thought when I saw the transcript, which is he sound? He remarked he sounds like some rich malibu whack job asshole, who sits at some dinner party and is like this abortion thing I it's actually solvable. I actually have the answer and people. I just don't understand why people don't get how simple this is. That's what I have, which is like a kind of

like a political imbecile who thinks he's so brilliant and so smart that he's like has all these answers. Yet I look. I think the question initially was free a little bit confusingly, but Kennedy than specifically says. I believe that its decision to aboard a child should be up to the woman during the first three months, and then he says that states have the right to limit abortion access ones child is viable outside of the rooms. He wasn't saying yes or no to a confusing and he was affirmatively stating his views in his own words, and he also gets gets offensive that exists, look up a medical freedom guy. I care biomedical freedom. However, I'm going to swerve and tell pregnant women what to do with their bodies, and so I think you know like it's, like the three thousandth data point that this guy's not really running for the democratic nominee, right and, if you're running for the democratic nomination, you know your position on abortion. You don't seem like you're thinking about it for the first time in the ag, tents at thy was state, fair

What he has figured out is that when you pretend to be running for president, you get tons of press coverage and you spread your crazy anti vaccine, conspiratorial views and he's just hacking. The system- and I think I hope that moments like this will lead the media to reevaluate whether or not or how often to cover him because he's full of shit he's not really running and he's a liar like that. That statement is a lie, even if you- and you told us what you think. That was my first reaction, because you've been saying this to me that he's like not just barely there's he's a liar, and this is a perfect example of his campaign, just lying straight alike We get to tell him his interview with ruben gago, a few quick housekeeping notes. If you want to chat about the republican debate in a place that isn't the platform formerly known as twitter, you can join friends of the pod to chat with us and your fellow listeners on discord. So we can suffer through the debates together, subscribe to friends of the pod now at cricket dot com, slash for

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Caution room guy ago represents arizona third, congressional district and he's running for the united states. Senate continent could see her dramatized serbian and allay first thing. Most important question just had a little baby girl is she travelling with you, or did you actually get sleep lessening she travels she that my mother mother laws with my wife in orange county and I was feeding her last night and then went to sleep and woke up got a new car at five p m and main away appear. So that's like it's a good night's sleep. You gonna see five hours straight, absolutely out of it that that nice, I saw you released a statement announcing you're taking paternity leave. Obviously that makes sense to do because your constituents in the press are going to say like what. Why missing votes. They want to know where your answer, but you did read a little bit like you felt, like union to defend the decision, giving there's still a stigma around men taking paternity with

absolutely I mean you hear it all the time you saw secretary British got a lot of you like ill battery march from couldn't, I that he was taking portray leave. I think that it is important ticket number one, it's good for the child, that for them to actually bond with the father with apparent which is good for your spouse. They need the support, it is due. Dreamily difficult. I wish in the first month, as you know, the sleep cycle. In terms of hopeful, your babies in carnegie, you there's a lot of appointments. Are these? Can things in its import? you to be their physically and emotionally there, and I think it is very difficult to do that when you're also at the same time you need, I give a tunnel back at me, like I have an eight month old and the first, the first three months, it's sort of like you feed 'em. You change him wreck, you birbhum, that's about all you're, getting They are but you're trying to figure out also agreed the tos or what are they feeling what's going on? Is you need to poop? Are you? Are you Yeah see what's going on here, elegance, it's all these late,

no guessing games and you're trying to figure out with your partner. Then your spouse like what the heck is going out. The baby at this point yeah yeah- it's also just fun- to be around meaningful time. Speaking of our kids in the future that we're going to hear. Over two them Phoenix just endured a month of temperatures, it think it a hundred at ten degrees or hotter. I read about people getting third degree burns from the sidewalk august. The pavement got so hot the inflation reduction act, which went through congress about a year ago, included all these vestments and clean energy that over the long term, will help us transition from fossil fuels. To clean energy and ease, etc. But that's gonna take a long time, However, the impact we need, what more do you think the white house should be doing now it may- and this is a long term problem- bernice short, m mitigation and the problem when it comes to this taboo extreme heat as it affects poor people most here and what is emmy like if you are in arizona the way you could do with heat, is you turned down your air conditioning? What will you do

that you're gonna you're you're electricity bills gonna go up that fight are making a good salary, but if you're living you know working hourly you're just you know right now, a pri cutting into your savings rate, while people that have to work outside, for example, in I used to carpentry. When I was growing up, I also worked a sideline. The marine corps working in the heat is not great south asian the you will do that tend to be your working class people so having rules about. Why breaks while making sure that they have like shade. Have some cooling is really important in a one of things that I've been pushing? the white house on FEMA is to allow places. Tat should declare heat emergencies and it sounds crazy, but you know it can get so bad like we saw right now. We had more than one hundred and six people already die because of heat that a lot of these localities can't afford to actually mitigate, and so how do you do that deal with no extreme heat you put up cooling centers for poor people,

put up out water stations for people to have a hydration. It all comes out of you know a very small tax base, but we can't ask fema for money if you're, in Boston, energy from and measures has a horrible blizzard gets nor the time matthews Boston can ask for a fee must support to help pay for paving furred, get rid of the snow for heating centres, view with water in the northwest or in the mid west too much rain or flooding goes out fema, but if you ever had to deal with extreme key, no matter what programmes were on the country, female will not be what I hope you will really that's exactly that and we've been exactly and we've been pushing the female they've been on commitment? They have the right to do it. They won't do it, but it's not just in arizona thing, were used to a hundred and degree, whether now it's bad, because it's a hundred ten above and doesn't could our night. But have you got a gmo up to seattle? They get to a hundred they're, not

committee for that, do not have the buildings are, are made for that in the air condition for that and something happened in seattle with that, typically mother, they can ask for help from FEMA. So this It is a very simple thing that deals with the reality what's happening now we know that climate change is here now, let's give the tools for these localities. how to deal with this, and hopefully the long run. We could start turning the corner when it comes to climate and just to be an army that impact isn't like people are on. Countryboys death death, I saw stat that the twenty twenty two he waving europe killed led to like steve thousand excess mortality me and it wasn't at their most vulnerable people that you know that your your elderly, it's your people in poverty issue, people that are are unfortunately addicted to drugs at your own house. People are those people tend to be the first ones at to go.

that a dyed forcefully in many them generally have a strong constituency or that general have legs interest groups that supports them. So this is why members of congress need to step up and really demand this image early. He served in the marine corps. Alabama tommy timber. Is single handedly, blocking every single military promotion in the armed forces, because he's mad that the pentagon provide support to Julia Shithead yeah cause he's a terrible person and because he's upset the pentagon, where to women and families need worsen services. this selfish political stance? He said a hurts military readiness and endangered national security we, the listeners, what you mean, but when you say military readiness is endangered. Well, very simple! You know women that need abortion care and, if they're in a state that isn't provided are now not going to be able to take paid time off, which is we are giving them pay term of time off that they ve earned to travel to a state to reach,

see that abortion care, for whatever reason it is taught tommy in his new projects, too many times around? The head has decide to block. You know that the a lot of the promotion of summer top leaders, summertime leadership, positions for example, ahead. The marine corps is now acting. What does it matter so? The acting cod on can give directives and orders to marines. Why can give guidelines so If you need to change anything with the marine corps, it has no force of law It's happening in all the other servants may the other services to number two rightness If you're a woman right now a young woman You want to join a military, that's not going to do with the freedom to travel. Should you need an abortion for whatever reason where possible. being in a military that already give up a certain amount of liberty, and you you understand, I understand your liberty to my liberty for your country, but

to say to a young woman, you come join the military, but we will take away your right to control your body, but by the way, but we expect you to protect and when asked is right is actually ridiculous in somalia, tommy's doing this for a political stun, but has real real world benefit patients yeah? What do you think these duchess photometer railroads, you know, right, santas is always whining about the woke military as they costly running down the military and all these ridiculous grasp. What do you think that kind of language means for recruiting in people's desire to join an organization that constantly getting attacked or has become. You know that, the nba, the the defense authorization bill got loaded up on the outside rallies, crazy culture. Warbles like what is I tell people that my the tough to regulate. I think the first thing the run says there are all these people think the military, the people, your cream, the military entirely different than? Actually it the military right now has to be diverse, because the map population of the country is diverse

right. The young population that you want to recruit is not eighty percent white and southern. It is very, very multi, cultural, it's latino, af, american or asian immigrants, gay women and making it a accepting and welcoming is going to be important for you to recruit them. Right, if you make it to seem that is like a good, oh boy network, your less likely to get some of these people in the thing you need and qualified. Lastly, the thing, but I think it's funny as these guys, the centre of the world, the crews of the world, their example of, like the the arch type like strong man, anti work is russia. Russia, get in their asses kicked by a war ukrainian army that is open to everybody by the russia is not even the second strongest army in. same the second started army in ukraine. Right now and it's getting kicked it ass kicked by people. You know

we are wearing you know at having earrings and and talking about their partner. So this idea that, ah you know, we don't have the strongest military is bullshit. We have the strongest military, most professional military in the world, and like these you know, countries like russia, even like China would kill to have the men and women that we have on the I that they could actually execute on on tommy, and just just I understand it, you know he just a guy that no snorts up the fox news, information and just like tried to spit it out and doesn't really understand the real nuances and air of the military. You are to people. I take yours, love to retweet these russian propaganda videos and create have the guys in those russia brain areas are dead already rife high taken out by some. You know, millennial like hitting a button and a high mars and laughing little time, but that we disagree with. abortion. We Democrats been running in winning on restoring abortion access ever since rovers wade was struck down

Recently tweeted, I'm running for you a senate to codify row what that means and how we can accomplish it and in like how you think the issue was gonna factor into your campaign, really something your hearing about a lot. Well number one factors in because areas is a protest state you know planned. Arizona fostered by peggy goldwater, one of the famous goldwater families it storm somewhat of liberty in state, and they want people to keep their hands off our bodies and to make sure that women have low. de internally or the body so number one. I think that is a salient campaign issue that people going to vote on space, women, especially young latinos, and latinas. It's going to be on the ballot. we're going to run a machine like initiative to codify and number three. I do think that now that the supreme court has struck down, ro. We should pass a national protection to the right for an abortion.

We will not be able to do that with certain centres right now that won't overturn a fuller buster to do it, but I well. It is a right for women to have that opportunity have that choice and the fact that the sums don't recognize. The need for that. A thing is so very sad statement. When you talk about the need to modify the filibuster, do you mean using getting rid of it in instances like cod, fine rose at something reality. I would say at a minimum in terms of its of codifying rights right to have a of illiberal means of governance that does not found the cautious united states to stop the rights of individuals and rights act, for example as another one. You know and is another one as well as edo aboard right, I think our is another one. We should a minimum. Have the ability to reform the filibuster for that at a minimum and worse, if we're not going to buy wedding and would you get rid of got another issue? This is likely to dominate the the campaign going forward. Is Donald trumps very

but even the various crimes in court cases were sitting you're waiting for something something out, georgia has yet there's a lot of them. About how much them rights should or should not talk about these criminal trials. Now you come your pain. Is this your hearing about on the trail, and you think it's gotta be something you talk about here, embody the trail. To be honest, we will look. It's sets situation where, in the back there are presently I states put himself in this situation, and he did it on his own. But it's still sad that the country has to go through. Some of the most important thing is for us to ever the rule of law and to execute on that, no matter who you are and nobody's above that, and but what what I do think is, since I don't hear about it, campaign show we should avoid it, but it shouldn't be our campaign slogan and our love, as people really do care about what is going to happen to the everyday lives. What does the future look like

and why I think a lot of people are worried about. The legal activities of the present may have conducted a natural cork, his second place at bay. Then they they may not be ready vote on that now. I think, there's other please russia. Conversations about! We should be taught Well the fact that this president's a threat to democracy. He certainly acted illegally. My pin on january sixth, I think that's something we should be talking about. I think people understand that you saw that in twenty twenty two people keep coming out to vote to protect progress see, I think, when we kind of catch that in that way, that's a better approach cause. Then they actually understand what that means to them. They actually see the effect of of superficial, putting some of that empower again. Yeah you mean. Sometimes we talk about the need to protect democracy and it seems sort of obvious but kind of ill defined. You always dislike anxiety that you hearing come up when you're talking to voters ideal and it's enough you know it's not an everyday

station, but enough the people. You know people care about. I remember in two thousand and twenty two I actually I was running a put your resolution. We pulled on it and the post, your came back and say like it's, not a initiation runner, and I said I just don't think IRAN I used in my my gut- knew that that was wrong and you too, I talk to you that cancer is helping on atomic. This is something we should be talking about. I and then they went to mark Biden when he said in the binding campaign that payment. Talking about the need to defend democracy. It ends up. That? They were. They were right. and I was right- they get your day there are. There are some true universal, can values and idea of safeguarding democracy for not just us for our future is something that is very sacred and that does cross ceremony pop party lines and certainly did in twain twenty two another issue. I am almost certain will be a big part of your campaign in the presidential is immigration. the situation, the border you know

This narrative miranda was crisis levels or in vienna last year than, was a big anxiety about the repeal of title. Forty two, which was this trump air policy that allowed the government basely kick out. Everybody seeking asylum under health reasons by surprise Finally, there hasn't been a serves the bite administration put in place. A bunch of ad hoc asylum policy is based on specific countries. Those policies were controversial, but they seem to have drastically reduced the number of unlawful border are things. What what's your view of the situation on the border and Biden handling of it at this point? But I, it's done a decent job. I think there's more to be done. A number one. I think we have to make the border commuters hole and what I what I mean by that. Not all board commute the same ballade. A book me These are dealing with the influx of asylum seekers and and taken under the toll of

dealing with it. So that means your higher cause for emergencies. Hospitalizations, police efforts, humanitarian efforts, so we It should be keep giving money support to these local communities because really it in a day. It's our broken immigration system that you're dealing with the situation, not their fault, and it's not the fault. the local taxpayers so helping them, at least in that regard as important One thing that we saw by the the regulations that the president has put in terms of of where to to where you can ask for sam as there's reduce the amount of sun seekers coming the border shows, as it was a really good example. What happens when you give people legal pathways? to ask for asylum and or to ask and his country legally, they will take it right, as I believe that the what we should do is we build on that. We should give people the opportunity to act, some in their home country or another home country give em a fair hearing or an that's just for centuries,

or for other view they want to come to this country, given the visa that that, if they have earned, it invades needed them to come and work and do it legally. Nobody wants to pay a coyote twenty thousand dollars as we could have a legal way to come to united states or the, its asylum seeker, whether it someone looking to just work here temporarily for my purse experience. I was born chicago, boliden in So what you owe me go my family. I support all the time to come back and forth and work. It was very easy they would come over I am assuming allow them deal with visas. I think some them now done it, but they crossed over worked for six months However, they were where they was in the fields or in the factories or in the construction business, and then they would come come back to mexico to spend the rest of the town their family. If we give people that option, I think they're going to take it, and then you can have border oh really focus on the bad guys. The guys are really the human traffickers zones that are really the cartel not just feel coming over to come work. at your local factory. Far more duck india there

begin conversation on the twenty, twenty four, primarily about immigration, he's gotten so extreme. You got trumped saying we should, you know like shoot. Border crime the in the knees girondin this saying, he'll, take direct lethal action, maybe even drone strikes against drug traffickers now and explain how you will differentiated drug trafficking from the pregnant woman with a backpack full of her babies. That stuff right, you know each says, are we think about iraq will figure it out here. We do not figure it out yet, Did I hear some real shouted area? What do you make of where this debate has gone? there are those arguments working in a place, like under that is like on the front lines. No, I mean those arguments word more in the mid west and they do in arizona we're used to the border, but you know we have cross border all the time. Yo arizona ins go to mexico all the time, a lot of us own connors. I don't just donate to money on condos in rocky point, where we have to watch,

traffic report going south during the holidays, because so many teenagers and cultures to go to mexico right this, though the war zone crossing the border they when talks about The largest migration of of humans legally happens in the united states. Happens we day at the Yuma border. When about six thousand mexican nationals cross every morning to go pick our crops as a matter of fact We are so dependent on that cross border traffic, legal cross border traffic that during covert, we had given exception to the border in yuma, in order for us to get bodies cross over and take out the cross from the fields or us you're gonna rot right. If you go down it down to the border, there are starbucks is literally a starbucks. right almost from the butter. While you could literally look out that starbucks and see the border while when the busy walmart. In santa cruz county. You know when you talk to the other commissioners there, their biggest complainants

that walmart so busy backs of traffic, so the aid- and I bring this up because the There is not a war zone. The border is a real placed. The border is part of amerika the people there there are americans, and these politician are using them in trying to make them non american trying to make amends and not part of america. These idiots are worrying flat, jackets while their walking around the border, I've won a flag at work. I could seven months, I know when to wear, reflects jacket and went not wear a flak jacket, there's no place in the united states, where I need to be wearing flesh, jacket and shirley's, not at the border, yet not ted cruz with a foxy camera crew. My dear point, like every every election right. There's a new caravan that's come absolutely in this year and they everyone has Ebola, and this year it's full isis, members or you're. Saying like those arguments, don't really fly and they don't realize they're, not they don't fly as hard that they don't his heart in arizona fiducia place now does It's not an issue as in the fact that we should do with it. But you in a realistic and mature manner. Right. Let's try to

how to make this a more predictable wavered, but a country I say transparent way. Lester figure out how to weed out the good guys from the bad guys. Let's try to rectify the situation that we ve your de facto loud ten million people to live, year and now they're living in the shadows. Let's get them out of the shadows, pay their taxes, those who have criminal. You know, I don't condone this as a criminal matter need to leave those. not to pay a fine and stay and get me a go to the process legal from becoming apparent residents. But this scare tactic keeps happening. Every psycho. Nothing ever happens The solution is for us to have a very saying, conference immigration reform that allows us to really focus on the bad guys and allow the good guys it. So there are some reports back your centuries. Third, that some reports, and now that failed, given turkey candidate and if I had known attack, I care like is gearing up to natural, be running presented in twenty twenty four. That means

raise could be you running the democrat rat yours and cinema as an independent and then carry lakers, regret again, How worried? Should we all be that they kherson said about could be the spoiler who sands, carry late to the usa so The point where we have seen are the point where we have committed ourselves. An outside people shows us the opposite: here's a cinema ticks mortar. if you now want more information, go to our website. W w Gago for arizona dot com also great place to donate just throwing that out there and and it will tell you will show you exactly what's happening. Every poll shows ass. She pulls more form republicans, and why is that cure sin in really care lake just aren't matching up with the values of arizona straight yo carry lake is so folk on twenty twenty and twenty twenty to that arizona are worried about twenty thirty. Twenty three, the word about anything but the pass election, and you know I think the values

that cuba has shown just don't match voters anymore, and so You gonna ask what is consistent with a kind of a four. It's ok the same outcome either I'm in first place in a three I'm in first place in a two areas now you have to run a race, no matter what arizona is a swing state? You never know. What's going to happen We raise the money we need to. We hit the doors we need to work, the volunteers that we have we're going to win this election. Do you expect the parties have to behind you, the ds, easy and others, and it put money into the race. I think at the other day, If you look at the fundamentals of this- see. Who is the strongest candid who can hold the seat for democrats, there is no way that you dont end up supporting this race There is a reason why we have more than a hundred thousand individual donations. We have a hundred thousand people that have given, on average, twenty bucks, the right website guy, you go for arizona, dotcom consistently, and we are at Then we have the money and the excitement

to really go the long way and raise what we need to do to win this. There is no other candidate can do that. There's no candidate can put the caution to others that to win this racer in arizona, democrat or independent, I think a lot of people just look at cursing cinema what what is going through her head, like I would love to in turn on a vineyard too. I am deeply how one of the united states senator- and I got the weird thing to do in europe centres I had ought to have been here to be an intern likes. You went through green party member of voting to protects hedge funds and far more likely no, I don't I'm your eyes and shrank back what the hell's going on there. What he put up your thing happened. Her letter that first of all, like I grew up working, on a ranch I'm not going to get in turn to back. That's like a slide. Right, just like subduing legally, like your charity with late for labour exist. As an aside thing. I don't know, and it doesn't really matter in the end,

what I know right now is that when I am out there talking to voters- and we have townhouse all the time- the state and were we're not shying away from red places no, whether at the outset america rural areas we're going to of our visit our near makin, brothers and sisters. What we we are hearing is number one. They want responsive leadership, they want somebody actually Taksim doesn't treat them as if there were no not it doesn't treat them as if they're not deserving of attention and our explanation rag, because I don't think I'm ever going to be one hundred percent in alignment with my constituents, but I do think that I will always be one hundred percent accountable to my constituents I'll be there to talk to them all or to them. I think a lot of them want someone that actually cares about them and doesn't care about. You know this last year, two election cycles that you know what you're hearing from from keri lake- and you know that's all we can really focus on. We do our job. We go out there

We make ourselves accessible. We talked to the voters at the end of the day, we're going to be able to beat the carrier elixir with all the criticism, as the room, though I you mentioned that carry lake and the kind of madness twenty twenty five is a job on one, but it turned into this circus afterwards, I ninjas injures re people trying to dispute, though I was ass, yet sound terrible. How you feel about by his chances in arizona go into the twenty twenty four and like what else you think they need to do to to churn up okay, I think air Biden has a good chance in arizona. I think we need to focus on our successes Arizona is a booming state. Because of all the actions that the Democrats have taken- and you know what are we looking at, for example, infrastructural has been great near- were building highways you're, putting that leaned on broadband to arroyo western iraq areas. You know where to Being massive growth in ecology and and manufacturing when it comes to chips mean this is the first.

I'm. Having does not just like a good arizona. It's a great america straight. You manufactures come back to that hi in manufacturing and when I was growing up. The conversation was that it was all going over to asia other parts of the world, and now we have the biggest much affection plants in the world being built. You know in phoenix and all they're kind of businesses that are other lined with that, the fact that we ve turned around more than three debit side manufacturing in less than two years is a credit to democrats. The fact at sea years are paying way less non pharmaceuticals and don't have chow to mexico to get were counted depending on where it crosses the border. Yet to get cheap pharmaceuticals is a big deal. We need to be talking about this stuff every day, because, As I dont see those I talking about successes, I dont see those I talking actually about. Eighty now look to the future near the others. I want to talk about, can a grievance politics by who you should be cool, you should hate who should be scared of you. I don't think

americans want to live. That way. I don't think americans love want to vote for someone else, because they're telling you who to hate and who you who you should be afraid of they want to vote for ideas. I want to offer like a positive, bright future. And whatever is coming from this, others say whether it is trump weather is carry leg. It does not. so, especially not in arizona in arizona. It's a very aspirational. Stew. if are moving their to start lives, they're not going to want investor political entered in someone who's gonna tell them what what is behind emissary what's going forward. Well, I'm a donor to camp in. I think we luck. We want to see you win and, like other taxpaying, I thank you so much nature. Handing back base reuben geiger for joining and we'll talk you thirty pod save america is a crooked media production. The executive producer is Michael Martina. Our producers are anti gardner bernstein in Bolivia, Martinez its mixed in edited by

if Chadwick Jordan kanter is our sound engineer with audio support from kyle Seguin in charlotte landis, thanks to halle, kiefer, madeline heritage or ari, schwartz, Andy tafe and justine. How for production support into our digital team, Elijah cone, Phoebe, bradford, mia kelman ben heathcoat and david toll subscribe to pod, save america on youtube to catch full episodes, exclusive content and other community events find us at youtube. Dot com, slash at pod, save america.