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would simply say, professional monitoring costs under a dollar a day, a bargain for the peace of mind. It provides right now, pod, save america. Listeners can get a special twenty percent off any simply safe system. When you sign up for fast, protect monitoring. This huge offers for a limited time visit, simplisafe dot com, slash crooked, that simply safe dot com, slash card, There is no safe like simply safe, welcomed, applaud, save america. I'm john fab row dan has time to his vacation perfectly Slow newsweek. So I very lucky to be joined by many has a host of the many happen show on MSNBC and peacock. Many welcome back John thanks for having me back. I just finished taping. My own show, I'm here in the dc bureau, excited to be with excited

Have you we have a big show today in a first for us, the republican primary comes to pay save america, John lovett and Chris Christie. went into a new york city, pod castillo yesterday, and only one came out. You can hear that very lively reception at the end of today's episode of four that many gonna talk about Rhonda santa's firing, a third of his campaign staff, including a speechwriter who shared some. the propaganda online, and what today's good economic news means for Joe Biden's political prospects, but first republicans are responding to trump's multiple indictments by threatening to impeach Joe Biden, based on various investigations into right wing conspiracies that have to uncover any actual evidence. They got a three year old document where some ukrainian businesswoman allegedly told an f b. I informant that Biden was involved in a bribery scheme, a claim that Donald trump's justice department already looked into and found nothing worth investigate,

and I ve got a couple iris agents who testified that Joe Biden, justice department interfered in the investigation into hunter Biden, a claim that the trump appointed? U s attorney in charge of the investigation has repeatedly denied and in fact, announced in court yesterday that he may bring additional charges against by the sun. Naturally, this led to the speaker house floating unimpeachable impeachment inquiry on handed to show: let's listen if you're sitting in our position today, We would know none of this. If republicans had not taken the majority, we ve only followed The information is taken us, but handedness instantly rising to the level of impeachment inquiry, which provides congress. The strongest power to get the rest of the knowledge and information needed, because this president has also use something we have not seen since richard Nixon use the weapon asean of government to benefit his

I'm late and deny congress the ability to have the oversight and then stay mccarthy may be kinder walked it by now, you all understand you've worked here for a long time. You understand what impeachment inquiry is not a huge. It allows congress by giving the power to get the information. The way people should go about investing all right, Mary, up until now, mccarthy, has gone along with the the kooks in his carcass who want to impeach Biden. Why do you think he seems to be changing his mind. I think how do we know he's changing his mind? I mean, as you said, you just play those clips he's playing. You know he. it, chooses his words as carefully as he can for speaker who has no power. Remember John is a guy who came in what fifteenth ballot he won fifteenth time round. If at first you don't succeed, try fourteen more. I missed you: ve got a job. We all know he came into the weakest speaker ever armament

the judge remember during Paul ryan speakership, someone amended the wikipedia paid for invertebrates all ryan photo. I just feel like sticking Mccarthy east, you ve been way. Spineless than Ryan ever was from gender the six month, retailer You went on white supremacy and now impeachment I've got more detail. Agree. You, and I know, is the real power in the house to be. guess. Yeah he's been wanting to impeach Biden from day one. In fact, I think she brought in articles abatement within the first week. Of his presidency. So it doesn't surprise me he'll, keep. I think you keep doing this dance ways is for it maybe he's not, for it may be, tries to speak out to speak out on both sides of his mouth. That's Kevin Mccarthy, but you ve got his caucus, always caucus. Then not he can't trawl them. This was inevitable yeah I mean it's interesting. I guess we know we know his comments intentional, because he followed up with a written statement and sent a fund raising text to his lips.

Always saying, like Biden, impeachment inquiry donate here, which is just wild notice. His very specific uses, impeachment inquiry is just in firing to find the facts, because republicans love finding facts. But, but what is interesting is when the democratic supposed did the two impeachment unequal reason, committees and vote for donald trump, I'm older, I remember Kevin Mccarthy was one of those people who said this will divide the country. This is partisan. We shouldn't be inflaming tensions at democrats. He said have been wanting to impeach donald trump, since the day trump became president. It was all projection as usual, because it's exactly the republican through mpg had wanted to impeach Biden from day one. This is quota won't, dividing the nation further and, of course, if you dont, like impeaching donald trump for an actual phone call him, which we have a transcript of extorting a foreign lead. If you dont, like impeaching donald trump, for you know trying to get you all killed

inside your government building, but you are okay with beaching Joe Biden over this, as you say, nonsense for unfair I d legation, where your star witness and out to be in an indicted, accused chain his arms dealer, whatever I can't even keep track of what that guy's being accused of it is. It is hard to keep track of this one, and I was like listening to mccarthy's press conference yesterday Romania gets involved in and weird bribe things and audio tapes that no one has they describe it as like that the republicans or an investigation of whether there is enough evidence to launch an inquiry with no type of it, so they ve got an investigation into They should open an inquiry into possible appeasement proceedings. That's how far down the road. We are because they don't have anything that I haven't seen, but meanwhile, while they sold out officially or to kind capitol hill reporters in the hallway to sound, very, very serious, they go on fox and Newsmax and say Joe Biden to criminal Joe Biden bribed.

But just making completely wild unsubstantiated claims, so it doesn't match, but you This is an inevitable. What I would say that is well can laugh at the republicans laugh at camp, in the white house is kind of mocking conspiracy theories in b. And Joe Biden will hurt Joe Biden. I I want to be consistent on this. I was one of those people who, when democrats have always we impeach donald trump. it does. I was a loser. No wo actually it'll hurt the president and I am vindicated. I stand vindicated today. We remember donald trump, as he twice impeach president for reason, but impeachments do have presidents and bill Clinton. People think you know the conventional wisdom says republicans got impeaching bill Clinton, not true with an a in months of bill Clinton not being convicted in Senate. The republicans have won the white house, the senate and the house, so it does. You know that, let's be very serious about this for a moment, an impeachment inquiry into Joe Biden, would certainly hurt Joe Biden going into twenty twenty four enough people just here today,

bribery, bribery and that's where they doing this right. They want the both candidates in twenty twenty four to be accused of corruption to be have being impeached because the republican way right is not, but for my go over your guide, don't believe anyone, because that's how nihilism and fascism grows. I didn't. I think it's absolutely right that this is their motivation for doing it. Republicans clearly are happy with the political environment. Right now, I think they're starting to realise what are these house members that they're gonna end up with a broadly unpopular criminals,

and then as their nominee. They see the economy, improving crime, falling border crossings going down what can unite them is their hatred for the other side. So you know the hope is to impeach Joe Biden dragged down his approval rating, so it's low enough to beat them. I also think that you know there are low information. Voters who happen to be a lot of swing voters who don't pay close attention to the news. They don't follow the news as closely as junkies, like you and I, and if they hear that Joe Biden was impeaching, donald trump as a peach, then they might say yeah that both candidates are corrupt, and so that's that I don't. I don't know how impeachment will go politically and for a lot of the rest of the electorate, and you know, like I don't know if if Donald trump was hurt politically,

by his first impeachment, like I certainly hoped he would be. I dont know that his political standing change that much, I think, maybe in the second impeachment. I guess I got a little bit, but I dont know I give my promise different of coastline is the reason, I'd. Rather, what have been the first to be at home is because you couldn't impatient for a dozen things and they chose one of the most common. Fitted for urban related stories to do people. You would have impeached for obstruction of justice over mother much earlier while, for you know, emoluments clause stuff, that people understand he's making money in the white house, but he should write, that's the one they decided to go on, because democrats hope this will be the nap, one. This will be the really that's why pollution co decided to belatedly after dragging their feet in Benghazi, in that sense, but I do you. bite and bite and they struggled to come up with a narrative that sticks to buy number twenty twenty. They try odin, demanded that didn't work. They tried that he's a kind of crazy left wing communist that didn't work.

and so they ve never really been able to join up the hate against by that they didn't hilary than they did against Barack obama, but they did against bill Clinton. So this now they think maybe is sticking bribery. The big guy, the one way will definitely help them in the campaigns. Is its terminally online store most average voters do area, don't know what the big guy means have never heard of some of the references that these people make so I don't want to help the house gnp, but I do think it will help them in a present to race, even as you say, even if the margins and by the way before it That's it you're, not being cynical in making this accusation covered mccarthy the man whose current speak. It is also the guy who went on life television and to the constellation of his fellow he'll be colleagues said: we're going off the bank John Henry look up all ratings but he's got you and look. I think

all we know, is of some of the republicans the house republicans, who were sitting in districts that Joe Biden won, are uncomfortable at this moment going forward with impeachment, because they don't think it will help them that much and if and we don't know what the effect will be. But if I was the white house- and I think Democrats should be making the argument that, like hey these people in the house, we you, you gave them one house of congress to control this man. What they have done is not focus on any vichy should care about. All they have focused on is a fake phony impeachment of Joe Biden for nothing, and I don't know that swing voters who pay a little more attention to the news

I like that, but at the very least it's the argument I would make. If I was in the white house, I'd have Joe Biden out there. You know talking about things that people care about and the impeachment I you know it could rally democrats around Joe Biden. It could turn off some swing voters. I agree that, like you know the republican base and some low information- voters might say- oh yeah know he's probably corrupt. So I mean we. We ought to be clear with with with the pup save audio weather, whatever you think about Joe Biden If poll ratings are not good right now and not where they should know, and in that scenario at impeachment may drive up, you know call support amongst them. Is that mainly to rally round from the democratic base, some of whom are disappointed in Biden over certain issues, but it would also We don't know how to swim by serbia. We can see so on tuesdays pod I did say that we would try to stop talking so much about rhonda fantasies, environment of a campaign, but he's left us no choice

tuesday the governor and his staff were in a car accident where no one was injured and that wasn't even close to the worst part of his day. The campaign announced it was firing, a third of its staff, including a speechwriter in former national review writer named nate hartman, who apparently created and then tweet the video that shows dissenters his face on a nazi symbol and yesterday to Santa said that he consider putting are of key junior in charge of the cdc. I guess my question is like why the hell did run. Dissent is higher speechwriter whose into nazi symbols. Does the question answer itself then I mean, let's not forget, is not like he came up with the nazi symbols after working for run, dishonest and that was to tell us how to design is like we have idea. No no may hartman had ready being attacked for doing a twitter spaces with When do you remember him a holy deny our trump thanksgiving dinner guest ad hoc him and said that when days was better for young conservatives and Ben Shapiro

and I'm no fan of Ben shapiro. But if you think nick fuentes is better for young conservatives than ben Shapiro, then maybe that's your neo nazi alarm bell when you're hiring people, so he already got a pass on that he got hired by the dishonesty new york times gave this guy a big up and he was seen as the kind of the face of the new young rife. The problem with the new young rye is lots is coming out about what they say in private and it's a not so nice. He creates his video according to axios. He then tries to pass it off by the way, it's the first time that the Sanders campaign genre accused of doing it last weekend- oh the times, of course, would that be homophobic, video they made where they brag about the sound is busy wanted to raise trans people. That was also apparent boy did we made an house and then farmed out to make it like it was organic. So everything about the design, this campaign is so fake and desperate for authenticity and grassroots support, which they just don't have. So you know, is watching the defenders The crush is fascinating, John, it really is, and I and again I don't want to sound. Like the I told you so

the kind of guy, but I was one of those people. Six months, eight months ago, oh yeah break decides on the national spotlight, bring him out of his florida, say space. Let's see how well that glass doors of Eyes- and you know it- five point by normal tom. I know we're, unlike you know, the the fourth or fifth the new cycle about the dissenting reboot and he just keep stepan on rakes. I mean the hour of kid. You new thing was wild and then, of course, afterwards, mike pence hits him for suggesting that he might appoint are of key junior to the cdc, because our caging year is protests, and so that's what my pants Problem was, of course, I've missed. I'd. Miss depends, of course, picks up there, but that I mean for media are updating was so interesting down, because till now descended has been playing footsie with the anti vaccines right. He's kind of anti backs life. These antibiotics adjacent, I'm not anti vaccine them just against mandate. pushed the booster in my state, I investigate the company's behind it, but I'm not anti backed, but but

interview that he does, where he says are of key cdc, appeared explicitly says, medical stuff, I'm way I like all that stuff, so impatiently out. Themselves are anti factor in my view, and I do and his opponent should really be thrown back, but of course that would have been in a general in a republican primary being anti vax doesn't cost. You anything actually boosts you yeah. I mean it just to me. The whole episode shows just like what horrible political instincts it is has re, because these appoggiatura young he gets hit from the right on possibly of loading, someone for an appointment who is pro choice, and then he gets hit from everyone normal for floating someone who's aunt I ve actually just doesn't win with any one, which is like sort of the story of his campaign. Like the slavery stuff right, you got the florida educate no standards are right. The new african american is bystanders big country. See over a few lines and their, including one that suggests slaves benefited. It was that of personal benefit, because I picked up skills,

and decided last about this, We can run away for and say nothing do me or incomes I'm with a hundred percent, because I think you ll help. You know appeal to my fellow my white nationalist space. It economies If we start a brisk offers like body. Do me it was me, but they did get skills they could parlay in later life, as will be used as a wet parlay in everyday life. A number of you, Chris Christie, pointed out what color leader I you that when something happens in your state, your first response is shared. Style, it wasn't me well and then it got it got worse. Yesterday, because byron donalds, who is the only republican black republican member of congress from Florida he tweeted and criticised the states education standard, and it was a pretty you know- is all, said was it needs to be changed? I don't think that was right. Whatever and dissent campaign, been attack byron donalds and compares two key more harris goals,

It's upsetting that conservative this hard core freedom caucus member festival, John, we gotta, stop and say: byron, donalds, isn't just the only black republican from Florida he's part of a florida house delegation, almost all of whom have endorsed donald trump. What does that yeah? The governor of Florida, that the republicans in his own state are backing donald trump over him? I think it was. It was a stupid is April and the name Greg's doobie the rebel Ralph Emery said that when he fell off a roof, he was in hospital and descend. Just the cold of trump called him, a charm news, I imagine imagine being compassionate unless consider your fellow man, Donald J trunk, but that's isn't farther on byron. Donald was interesting about that is their attacking this black republican and comes out against them doubling down on the slavery starve Jeremy red fund, whose a deputy press secretary, one of these terminally online deceptive trolls alongside peru shore, brian Griffin anyone's, but any time obligatory knows these people there to defend its peoples.

Just spend all their life fighting with people on twitter he's buttons twenty four hours, just doubling down defending everything to do with this curriculum, so then we wonder why has just sent is losing wisely connect with only the number one here terminally online press team who just don't It's done the real world and hire people at nine o'clock, cumin and number two he's just an unlikable guy like I saw someone floating the. Let descend the speed this and decide which are the everyplace daddy's. Does it yeah? That's like goes right light from the western like. Let decided, because until now, that's the last thing you want to do because the more people see the real designers, the more they don't like him. The man is that social and know charmless short, tempered thin skinned, charisma, freezer. Benjamin Nixon, the writer calls him. The the bog of charisma he's got the charisma of a ball. The star trek funds amongst you. Why would you want to see more of the real run? Descended yeah there, thing about you know we just gotta, give him a mike in a crowd and get a break breakdown.

Barriers between rhonda, santos and and voters, it's like, I don't think the voters want more rhonda santas close up. I don't know, I think that they ve seen they're, not they're, not liking it too much it using leaving at all but would lead to believe rhonda santas can claw his way back and make this a real race with tromp, because I'm I'm cognizant of not getting like caught up in the new cycle of the moment. But when I look at this, I just I have not seen anything that makes me think. Then guy could this guy. Come back no and in rome in january he was nearly neck and neck were trump and the parts he came in his this big star. He was height tat by conservative and liberal media, and he was a few points behind in some polls. In some states he was ahead of trump and it's all crashed and burned in the six months. Since I think, there's two reasons: number one is what we just discussed: that the more people see them the more they don't like him. He's not very good, got bad judgments and number two,

don't give getting indicted, not every time he gets indicted. His approval waiting with the basic goes up knocked down and the right of all not just the sun's all of them. I don't know what to do within that. They don't know how to respond to these indictments and over the next. Six well, that's not going to change right! Donald trump's. Legal troubles are worse, so he'll be more of a martyr to the base and run dissenters, we're going to see more and more of and people are going to like less and less of him. So we'll see how it turns around people talk about well. If trump goes to prison, I don't see trump going to prison this side of november twenty twenty four or ever so I just don't see how he comes back then, and this is not twenty sixty. This is not in a trump against. Sixteen people divided feel it's actually trunk with over fifty percent support and a thirty five point lead over second place from decided. That's pretty. huge yeah. Well, on that note, I went whatever the rest of the field. Mitt Romney wrote an interesting up in the wall street journal the other day where he called on republican donors to pressure presidential candidates to withdraw from the prime

we, by February twenty six, which is after the first four contest, if they're not in second place. That way, someone can have a chance to face trumpet and one on one race when you think about that. Good idea, plausible, wouldn't even matter so I think she saw in writing. The sum of all today makes this point as well that it's kind of out of date already this is not twenty. Sixteen. This is not. Sixteen candidates were donald trump is the kind of outside our who's got thirty forty percent of the vote, and if you take all the others, seen while then they could beat him. Let TED cruz go one on one against a much earlier on in the race. We've already kind of weird they already kind of tried to coalesce around this, and this you know fox, did and and some big republican donors did, that hasn't worked right. Dissenters is now polling. Thirty five points behind I think in the latest fight Thirty eight average. So you put all of the rivals together, dissenters, TIM, scott, vivek ramaswamy. You know all of them together, Nikki haley, MIKE pence,

Chris Christie, I remember with other, also runs- are polling at zero. They don't come in. We're close to trump's share of the vote, so this idea that if you could just get behind one person that can stop trump, I fear that ship may have sailed in a tim. Scott is now being talked about as the next down to try. Stop trump he's got a lot of money he's like by a lot of people. Obviously his black in a party that is done very badly with minorities for obvious reasons, but you know he's also a massive trump supporter he's also a guy who completely backed trump to the hilt for four years. Is he going to be the guy who takes and donald trump. I don't I mean I said this a while ago and I hate to be. You know I hate to be proven. I wish I was proved wrong right wrong. I don't see how Donald trump's get beat by any of these people. I don't either. I mean I think, that the only possibility at the outset of donald trump, getting beaten in a primary is by a candidate who was a lot like trump, the one that the whole dissenters dream of being trump without the baggage.

like that was the correct goal to synthesis clearly has plenty of baggage of his own trump, with all the chaos he's causing plenty of chaos on his own, so he has on that? But I do think that, like that's the right sort of area but because looked up the republican electorate, first of all its you know, probably two thirds non college educated, trumpets, just just dominating with those voters, and all these other candidates are trying to get a piece of the college hated part of the republican electorate, who is like at least willing to look beyond trump and they're all trying to divide it up so, like of tim, Scott is doing great. Is it does great mean he goes from eight percent to thirteen percent or fourteen percent, like you said, Donald frumps over in a lottery, so that's still not close exactly if dollar terms in the thirties- and this starts to make sense like what are the. What are the coalitions? What are the people who can pull out and back someone else? We're not in that and the reason is the reality. Is that nothing? The candidates know why they run right. They just don't have a reason to rub my pants

what is the reason for running collided great in the trumpets administration by MIKE mcdonald's away eat almost got. You killed your tim Scott. As I say. at tim, Scott running. You know, I'm the guy who evangelicals evangelicals love trump, more and you're, the guy who also defended trump for four years. Every time people said trump's a racist, you were the guy who came out and said he's not yeah? You criticise them overshot, there's no, but they never have never went full on its ability to any say, run descended from without the baggage me. Nobody wants trouble the baggage, apparently about it. They were bubbling electorate likes the baggage, that's why they show up. They shouted inertia in the rallies serve around this endless, so you whose left Nicky haiti what? What is your reason for running negate yo you really just running for vp, so

there's no real. If they don't know why they are running and what their strategy for victory is then surprise, surprise donald trump, just who was about further time. I also think it's funny that mitt Romney god bless him, thinks that a bunch of mega voters are going to listen to like rich republican donors or any kind of republican doubtless meant figure who's going to try to pressure these candidates out and then say like none of this, the person now right like that, if anything, we're probably backfire for that candidate, that you have a bunch of like rich billionaire republican donors, that trumpet call the establishment and rhinos and whatever else suddenly you're telling you you have to get behind him. god or nikki haley or whoever they decide after. If, if de santa doesn't make it- and I just think it's so foot like that- it's not gonna work. Now you can, you can mitt romney's plan can happen, and it's still like that. The how I don't get when people in the republican establishment

are going to realise that they just don't have any sway over their own basic. That's the key point job and I feel like the emperor's new clothes. We need to say this. I think Liberal media has been complicit in this nonsense for so long that the way we push up never trump as the way we kind of love sharing clips of chris christie- and I am looking forward to the Chris christie interview, but matters have no chance, the winning, of course, and now he and be like he's he's lying about his party right. This is the fundamental problem with all these republicans they shouldn't be in that party, the parties gone, the bases go like this. Is we don't like saying this? John, because it kind of those of us who took it politics we want to have solutions we want to have. Some a vision for the future. The realities done, it's finished its over the job is done. I've been saying this for several years now and if people still do,

I don't know what else to say the man is about to get the nomination for the third time after everything he put the country through for four years after the insurrection, when republicans found their spine for about thirty six hours and yet he's going to win again, perhaps bigger than last time. The nomination, so this party has got his one poll number there's a poll out this way. I think it's a market poll which shows that fifty, just under republicans, told pollsters that they don't believe there were any classified documents in Donald trump's home. They don't believe it. Donald trump says there were classified documents, trump's argument, not that the word he says. I have a right to have them trump voters I think you did. He would have them. You cannot have a reasonable debate when people like this, I'm sorry you can't. I was looking into that. That same Paul also says that more republican voters think that Joe Biden in my pants refused to cooperate with them government and handing back documents, Donald trump, which is just like vienna beta

have seen the news. They don't give a shit. I don't know it's all. We had its origins, we need to get it. It's all rationalize wanting to rationalize blessed mitt romney bless yo cricket christie like this is die. It's done it's over. It's just that. You wait tough. This shows is sponsored by better help, talk about a time when he felt uncertain Where you going and life or what the right path was every day every day, every day, sometimes in life were faced with tough choices in the path for it is not always clear. What you're dealing with decisions around career relationships or anything else, therapy helps you stay connected to what you really want, while you navigate life, so we can move forward with confidence and excitement. Trusting self to make decisions that alone with your values like anything, the more you practice it the easier it gets. If you think, in a start, in therapy give birth

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What right now a time agenda come such cricket save twenty percent off a time. Agenda comes much cricket. Tommy John D, complex crooked, see site for details before we go. I want to ask about Joe Biden prospects, here's a tweet from the Washington post jobs, on tuesday lot of econ things Making binds way of late inflation, cooling, labour market stays hot recession calls downgraded inflation reduction, act, chips, act, investments booming today's big deal on you ps to avert summer strike, and then, of course Above all about yesterday. We learn that the consumer confidence in its highest level into you and today we learned that last quarters economic growth be expec. and we ve had a long running debate here about whether Biden in the white house should be taking more credit for all this or whether that would seem out of touch to people who may still be struggling with inflation, which is probably helping with happening with a lot of working in the class people across the country.

What do you think about that? You I'm of the view that you ve got nothing to looked right at this point by drains bad people keep saying they colonies, bad? I just did. Dive on my show and pick up, which is out this week on this exact subjects, they call it you're doing really really well all the things you mention from this time, tweet in a three percent: inflation unemployment at its lowest level. Since neither drunk stepped on the moon. A growth of recession avoided all these amazing in their manufacturing booming real wages up even income inequality. You know the the thing that we on the left have banged on about for awhile falling Oh all, these good indicators, and yet people, not just republicans but people across the board say- were all economies, so good is not doing so well now, part of its policy on ship part of that is in a media coverage, a pot of is real people still struggling with things like child poverty and student at real issues. But you know, democrats need to get there, the messaging I've said that for a long time and if you're not going to bang your own drum boo is because you know I know

If people like I'm an MSNBC host and it'll be read them as a busy folks know. Fox is a propaganda. Channel. Liberal media quote unquote, may be liberal, quote unquote, but it doesn't act. as a propaganda channel in the same way doesn't get outta. This not out that pushing the administration is, if anything is the opposite right. There's a hat. Does John was going out of their way to be well. You know it might be good figures, but what about these and on my show, we went through all the times that trump got two hundred. Thousand new jobs and got praised for it by the liberal media and bind got two hundred thousand jobs are disappointed. Two hundred thousand of the same number reported on differently. So there's a lot of issues going on here and I think look Biden cannot rely on the media. He cannot run anyone else but himself to go out and make the case that if you say you know, might sound out of touch. Oh well right. The people who have already started to make up their minds we talk about swing, voted women about people living in love, information bubbles, economic

What make the case! People still think. Inflation is a record high because they heard that all of twenty twenty two they have no idea. It's a three percent to go back to what you said at the start, this combination, most people, are not news. Junkies, like you, and I and people don't just pull out their cow later in the oh, I'm better off worse off. I will support this president, but that president, that's not how it works right. It's about narratives, it's about how you feel it's the mood in the country, Biden is the guy who s the lead on. That is reason. Is called a bully puppet and you ve got the facts on his side. well, I guess to go out and lie about it, but the fact is they do need to talk about this stuff yeah, and I think- and you know you see them doing that, especially over the last couple of months and all these events that Biden's doing and of course, it's difficult to break through with an event about your accomplishments as I know and which is why he has to do it all the time. But I do think that narrative that you talk about has to just just has to include a couple elements right, which is one rewrite. The facts are on his side. You just has to talk about all of the economic indicators that are all now heading in, though, in the in the right direction. You know we used to chart and twenty twelve

with the obama reelect about there's that this famous jobs charge shown all the jobs that were created. ass for years and that when we show that to focus groups, it was very effective. I think Biden will profit. Something like that, and then he says you know, and for all that, weren't feeling. This put me back in there to finish the job and I will keep fight these republicans to raise wages and protect people's health care and all the other things like. I think it's just it's. It's the whole finish the job. yeah slogan that he started in the state of the union. I think, is good for the reelect, because it shows you that he's not going to rest on his laurels and say everything's fine now, but he's going to go fight, especially if the deals are the ages years old. Why is this old dude running again like? Why? Doesn't he just retire right if he could case well, I'm not retiring, because I didn't finish this stuff and also even the negative stuff. I love we my produces. I were writing the script on the economy we have just as you do, we have to put in people are still hurting. We have to put it all, to qualify as a caveat. You go through the caveats, child poverty up at twelve million

hold on. He got it down to nine million child, but the air, but the tax credit expired because the republicans and romantic right, that's even even there. If stuff, he can still frame it in the way that your child poverty is bad and the guy who tried to cut it republican. Stop me student debt is bad I'm the guy tried to relieve it republican supreme court. Stop me. So there is still a framing. That can be done. That says, even with the pockets of pain, help me. I think one area where he hasn't said enough and has failed to do enough- is health care still, especially in the wagon endemic like there's been no meant. I know he's not a medical for all guy. I get there, but like public option stuff that he talked about the campaign to would not have anything about and people are hurting a lot of the pandemic, especially with people being thrown off. Medicaid

I think you could do much more on the healthcare front. Yeah I mean I think he will talk about the prescription drug benefit that he got from the inflation reduction act. I think that also locked in some of the extra premium support on an ac a that he did but you're right, like, I think, that's an example of on the trail. He can talk about what he's done on healthcare when prescription drugs and premiums, and then he can say- but you put me back in for another four years and give me a democratic house and a democratic senate we're going to push forward and continue to. You know whether it's public option, which he had talked about in his first campaign and twenty twenty or whatever else like he should it's just it's a it's a continuum. So I interviewed eo c a few weeks ago asked her if she'll be support, Joe Biden, in the primary she said she would. It predictably led to a bunch of blow back from the very online left. We also Coronel west giving disappointed left as a place to go. I know you ve, had your criticisms of Joe Biden here and there

what do you make of all this? How are you feeling about his election prospects? What do you say to disappointed disappointed folks on the left for great question, I saw some of that ridiculous global there's stuff on Tom, cause. I love. I could talk about all the good things he's done. We talked about the economy, there's a lot of bad things, he's done, especially on the foreign policy front. Don't get me started on Israel, palestine, Netanyahu, don't get me started on mbs and a conversation for another day. I've been very clinical and healthcare. I think he's dropped the ball on that. But let me just let me just, election front. I am torn because, on the one hand, I am one of those people who liked yourself says come on. You cannot vote third party when fascism at the door. We have a two party system. A vote for a third party candidate helps the fascists. But I've been consistent on that. In fact, I had Noam chomsky on my podcast years ago, before twenty twenty sec yeah you've got to vote democrat. Even chomsky came out which he does every four years to be fair. To note, comes out and says you gotta vote for the Democrat

we consider that the climate even known, gets it from the left and, having said that, I am also someone who sees himself Alas, I am very disappointed in many things about our economy, our healthcare, our foreign policy, things at the Democrats have failed on or turned a blind eye to, so I get the disappointment as well now. The argument then becomes too blue a disappointed you can say justifiably become relevant third party candidate. That looked like. Back in. On the other hand, if there on a people who are going to let trump back in what are you offering them, but it's a to waste On the one hand, the left has to understand what the greater threat is, and it is fascism even called a western that in two thousand and twenty was Epstein's caught up with, while back jill stein in two thousand and sixteen and twenty one he endorsed by saying just what the door so that arguments very straightforward. But if, on the other hand, we have a long liberals and interesting look at these left these, they let trump win. What left neither influential like electron whim. Maybe you should do

but more for the last I would say: yeah no look. I think you know that the peace that criticised as in new york magazine was really can be accused of appearing on an episode of pod, save america, where the hosts were saying that a vote for anyone, but Joe Biden was a vote for donald trump and I was like I said I was like whoa. That is true. that is literally. That is true statement. Now, if I was door to door, and I came across people who were unsure who they were involved. may be thought they might one about third party, I wouldn't bully them Could I wouldn't say, like hey, if if you don't want to vote for Joe Biden you're putting donald trump back into office and that's that and what did you crazy but, like? I don't think, that's the best way to approach it. I think the best way to approach it is like hey you're free to do whatever you want. If you really care about abortion, democracy, healthcare, wages, climate, you have a better chance of seeing progress on these issues with Joe Biden over donald trump, and it is very, very, very difficult, almost impossible.

The third party person winning in the screwed up system that we have and you can acknowledge that the system is screwed up. We can talk about the doorstep for a long time. I mean, as you know, John. I just wrote a book about arguing debating, persuade now a lot of the social great book. Thank you very much a lot of the social winds out there on the importance of listening on imports of empathy, how when people over there's been a lot of social science dunham, for example, when you people are run transgender rights just spending time on the doorstep. Hearing people's objections out can actually have a massive effect for six nine months down the line that all the data is out. There I get, the IMF of that, and I'm not thing to not to do that. But you don't know the hand, I'm not an activist, I'm not knocking on doors and not a campaigner. That's not my job by job, I'm a journalist, I'm a common data. I my job is to, what I think is true my job is to share. My opinion by analysis. Of my opinion. Analysis is, is that, yes, if you vote for third party candidate, that will increase the chances of fascist coming back of another most in battle array of law, charles separation. So

that is what I'm going to say now that offends people upsets people? Oh well, you aren't going to win an election right now, I'm done suddenly so, as you say, there's a difference between what you see on the doorstep, which, of course, if I was going to do something image different stance, but what I'm saying now is, as a person sitting on the pod save america say, let us be clear if someone other than you know other than democrat or republican, it is not going to like that person, but it is going to help the right winger. In this case, then, we can argue about twenty, sixteen, but Gary Johnson and Jill stein and who influenced more. I get that there's lots of arguments to be had but now with cornell. Of course, that's going to take votes away from Joe Biden of Liz Cheney were to run as a third party candidate maybe would go well. Maybe that helps Biden, but right now, if it's just cornel west or if it's rf, king junior, if he decides to run the party, then we know who that's going to hunt in places like wisconsin, where Joe Biden won by twenty thousand votes out of three point: two million votes cast like ludicrously close election. So

yeah. It bothers me- and I you know- I see bite you as a muslim. I think about donald trump bragging about bringing the the muslim ban. All this horrific up. We have such short memories in this country. John. Like I now goldfish memories, We ve already kind of the trump era we've already charlottesville, it's all so or away for good. Oh no, I go I'm gonna go around shouting about all that four years of chaos of a guy who was the worst president in american history. Probably and the idea that he will be the nominee again and the people who care about the climate will care about these issues, as you just said with, risk letting him back in, even though they have very good objections. I respect the objections to bind them the democrats on certain issues that to me seems my sorry, and you know and air sea saying that she's gonna endorse Joe Biden is not her sewing out too to the neo lives. Like me, it's her realizing that there is a fucking difference between jobs,

and donald trump, and do you really believe that donald trump as an existential threat to democracy? don't you like that is normal is equal to normal republican. Who can be like a demo. You don't like umbrella, or is he in existence a lot of a lot of these people on the left and the right some people, but my mum was there a lot cause a lot of people online people that say a lot of the left in two thousand and two when he did back Joe Biden right, yeah, Angela Davis, irresponsibly cornel west. Noam Chomsky go through the list. A o c lot of prominent leftists did say: there's no comparison. You've got to vote for by, but the reality is that existential threat to democracy is the key question and a lot of people don't think donald trump cause. They think the god How did it was exaggerated? I remember people telling me twenty nineteen o. you don't know anything about america, boy you're from england. If he loses the secret service, just walk him out. I'm like you, ain't go quietly, go quietly. I wrote.

In twenty nineteen there will be riots. He will refuse to accept the election result. What do you think's going to happen in two thousand twenty? Four? It's going to be twenty twenty on steroids. Ya know I know this and we're going to be reminded of all of this and what he did in two thousand and twenty as the as we learn more about the the indictment. That's that's coming down about what he did on january. Six though I am leading up to it, mehdi Hassan. Thank you so much for for joining. I pod save america. I appreciate you coming by and I come back again soon, thanks for having me before we get to love it's chris Christie. Interview too quick housekeeping notes, a reminder that an ad free version of pod save america can now be yours. When you join the friends of the pod subscription community come for ad free psh stay for the bonus content had to cricket dot com, slash friend. to join it today and even more important reminder on tuesday august eighth, reproductive freedom and direct

accuracy or on the ballot in ohio. Ohioans are expected to vote on a ballot measure to codify reproductive freedom in the state constitution in november, but Republicans created another ballot measure for august. That would make it worse more difficult to pass a constitutional amendment to guarantee abortion access in the state They want to raise the level that it takes to pass that amendment from fifty percent to sixty percent, and so that's what the august eighth ballot measure is about don't let them get away with it had devoted amerika dot com, slash ohio to find all the information you need to vote no on august eighth go to. But when we come back loved interviews, Christy. Pots, America's brought by low me say: you're gonna town this summer. The one thing you know

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In the tri state area that it says. you're, a republican can ever present had sets that's what I've heard governor crisscross you open upon the america, I'm happy, and you know the show is a yes to woo. What are you doing here? You asked me to come: yeah, that's right! show up. I got I to the ladys pulling out of new Hampshire, shows trump dumb. And he's also dominating national pulse run fifty percent. if another canada is gonna to win that candidate while to consolidate the anti trombone and peel off some people that have stuck with trump now, who are those voters and what is your best, most persuasive case to them, while first off, I don't think that the the numbers on trump or accurate I'll think he's anywhere near fifty percent, even with republican primary voters, I'm just from what we ve done. It turns our own research. and anecdotally from travelling in places like new hampshire in south carolina, where I've been last week, I think there are p

All who were in that number who would say to you I'd, consider voting for tromp, but I'd also consider voting for somebody else and I dunno who that person is right now saw stick with trump? So I think that number his number, I think, is much closer to forty and air below than it is fifty. Secondly, I think the only way to beat to be the man is to beat the man. So you know our strategy is just to go directly at him and there's plenty to go directly at him with, and I think that campaigns still wade. I absolutely believe that I believe once people focus- and I think the focus will start at the first debate on august twenty. Third, I think people are willing to be persuaded and that's right and to do- and I don't understand the other people in the race cause they're all trying to kind of be like him and that's like trying to be new coke when coke is still available like if you like, coke and coke, is still there coke

buy new coke and look the pitch for, for me is to fold it's first, that you know, I'm going to tell you the truth and as they are always going to like it, you're not always going to agree with it, but it would be nice for american politics to go back to having people tell the truth and that's at a premium in our party led by trump, but with others as well. Secondly, it said I want a presidency that goes back to doing big Things were so small. Now, I think, and and focusing on things that are really small fighting with each other about small stuff divide each other into smaller small groups in the pitting ourselves against each other, to where he can't even go to a cocktail party anymore and have a civil conversation. you ve been making this case at trump doesn't seem to have improved your number so far it has produced what, between thirty five and forty six percent of voters have said

recent polls that they would never consider voting for you. What does that tell you something about how difficult a job it is to persuades, to persuade people to turn against trump yeah it's hard, but if it weren't hard, then there would be. Fifty people I do it I am. I know this is going to be hard, but on the other hand, I know what I'm saying is true, so either in front runner currently has for trial, scheduled in six months span. Civil fraud case, the defamation, sequel, the hush money trial. The documents case there. Maybe two more, your former prosecutor, have you ever heard of someone facing between four and six trials within a few months for different legal issues, no, no usually of folks like this mid, discreet crimes, tat white of having one trial. This guy, It is better. a one man, crime wave and,

he's earned every one of them. If you look at it every one of these is self inflicted, and- and that's why you know, do I think that prosecutors exercised prosecutorial judgment and discretion in some respects that I are questionable yeah and they always have a job, but what I say to people all the time is whether you agree or disagree with the prosecutors. Look at the underlying conduct. Cause, that's what he did yeah, whether you believe it was a crime or not or whether you believe it was it's fair to prosecute him. For that or not is the conduct, something that you believe is appropriate for someone who wants to be president, I did states like for instance, the the prosecution of manhattan, is one that I wouldn't have brought in as a prosecutor. But do we want someone who's, president? Who is willing to pay off a porn star who had,

fair with two months before a national election to hide it from the people who is asking for their vote for president. I states I did this probably concept that we should be frowning upon rat right. So I think that you ve got to talk about this in two different ways, one as a prosecutor, and so I don't believe in banana prosecution apps. we believe in the classified documents. Prosecution now, we'll see what the other to turn out to be a mental, certainly give opinions about the I see them if they come out, but without doubt it's the underlying causes janet. The problem and based on the evidence we've seen in the indictment out of florida. Do you think that that the trump deserves to go to prison for what he's on that nightmare If he goes to trial and is found guilty, there is a presumption of jail. There is so You don't know what a judge will do or not. Will a judge send at that time he privacy seventy, eight years old, seventy nine years old I know what I was a prosecutor. Where people got to that age

you began to be very reluctant to send them to jail, because it was essentially a death sentence that usually people at that age in a prison setting. Don't do very well off, so I think there'll be a bunch of things that a judge would and should consider. But what the public needs to know is that, if he's convicted of those crimes, there is a presumption that he will be set. jail and the judge would have to work against the presumption not to, and you got an argument with tromp during debate prep about the corruption of jericho, schaffner vodka trump. If you were still u s attorney, would you believe it was worth investigating Jared dealings with the saudis If I can figure out how to have jurisdiction over new jersey, yes, I would but yeah. I absolutely, I think it's worth if looking at, because I think anybody who goes in to public service and appears to have used that public service to go on the graft, which is the only thing you could call this.

Yeah. I think that this has to be looked at in the same way that I think the stuff the hunter Biden is doing deserves to be looked at as well. I think that we have had now two presidencies in a row where the father in the family seems to be unwilling or unable to control the conduct of their. Children, and if you can't do that, have a hell. You run the country and I think that it makes people feel like This is a banana republic, but you know there's a you. You recognize a difference right. No one has found any evidence to Joe Biden has than anything wrong to the same extent, Donald trump has over and over again right well hold on now what The kid I know jargon as well, but it is so, let's not switch the topic I will use which it out you brought it back to you. Wanna talk. It's better talk about both for you not to do it in not only better to talk about both. For me, it is also appropriate to talk about both because

What we have now are a lot of allegations that president Biden inserted himself into hunters business dealings with hunter needed, so a little boy come now, we'll find out whether or not that sustainable or not. But I would note that the president hasn't denied it and the white house hasn't denied it there. Their statement now is well he's. Never been a partner in his business. Well, I thought the allegation. The allegation is that he supported it. My bigger concern is that when you allow members of your family.

to trade on your name and benefit from it when you're in the white house, which donald trump clearly did and which it appears Joe Biden did when he was vice president with hunters business dealings that that makes people feel like they are not being served and that's a problem, and I told this did not trouble when I was running his train fishing in twenty. Sixteen don't higher your family in the white house, he said why, and I said, could you can hire people in the white house that you can't fire and you can't fire people that you have to have thanks giving with so don't put him in their worse, yet he not only put them in, but he empowered them to interact with foreign governments on what was jarred kissed her doing in the Middle east, we had two very able secretaries of state in Rex pillars might pump hail and they could handle that. I believe he sent yard there cause yard want to go there.

As all along chair, its intent, was to create those relationships in order to capitalize them compromise on them with money, I'm on the back and So is an historic precedent for primary. I believe it is the first where you can argue that one of the candidates tried to kill two of the other candidates. It would you know, in the case of my pants, it was trump at the capital with the rope. In your case he wilfully exposed. You too. When is really serious, you told access that others you, when you're in hospital, you thought you might, you might might die. I was deaf, we worry that we were a day or so away with doctors told me for being intimidated, and that was deftly not something that led to great results, and then trunk calls you he did, and he was very I learned about you well kind of he was in walter reed at the same time yep and he didn't sound very good and he told he asked me how I was doing, but once he got past Ask me how I was doing. He asked me if I was to tell the press that he had given me covered

Now that time I didn't know that he was the one that give me covered because, None of us in the room knew who patient zero was no. None of you knew that he had had a positive test and then continued exposing himself to people for days and days. Correct, corrected. Fact that session of the paper which was the saturday Sunday monday and tuesday. Before that tuesday debate at the white house, he We later found that for mark balances book fat saturday morning he had tested positive and then the the The things he came into the room, the map, room of the white house- and it was me kellyanne conway, bill step. He and his campaign manager hope hicks, a Stephen miller, his speech, writer and jason miller.

His communications aide and I we all had masks, then we audit as negative before we are allowed to come into the white house, And- and I asked him- I said you know mister president- you want us to wear masks or do you not want us to wear masks, we've all tested negative. So if you're comfortable with us not wearing masks we're fine without wearing them, he said no, don't wear them and he knew he knew that he had tested positive and white, getting all of us, except for jason miller in that room all covered, and you know you told mark, leave it for his book One time you laughed lawyer in the hospital because, with the when trump is so concerned, about being blamed for this rather than for your this person, they worked with its helped him. You thought, guys never gonna change. When you find out, that he knew he had covered. Did you feel like when you heard that you thought wow trump he's as bad a person as I thought, or do you think wow trump he's a worse person than I am

imagined the latter. You do you you, you learned something about his character from yeah. I thought that was worse. Yet I thought that was worse. Yeah. I think passing on a communicable disease that, at that time had no treatments, of acceding makes you worse than I thought, yeah yeah. Now, though, in your exposes at your in debate, prep your debate, prep for several days, you are in november of twenty one, the basically year out of tramping in office, whether you regretted being part, they prep and your answer was the only part of debate bay prep? I regret is the covert part right she, you regret being there at all, given that now your case is that he's unfit to serve. I don't understand how you can't regret you are to europe. we are in a political capacity, helping him be reelected. Now you say he is unfit shouldn't be in office right yeah! No, look! I don't! I don't try to go back and rewrite history. I felt like what they were asking me. Was

did you regret dear great doing that at the time, knowing what I knew at the time now I don't regret it, but what Do it again now so yeah. I look at the question too. laser using at the time you want to try to be real relay, I did and now you you're glad he wasn't reelected. You don't want him to be president. I don't want him to be president now so that time you spent in a political capacity there to help him make his best case right now, you're, basically here to make the opposite case right. You are there to help him figure out how to sell what he had done and to promise figure out had up I mean what he would do in the future. Yes and now you're doing the opposite, correct right, because I've come to a different conclusion based on a whole bunch of things that have happened, cause you can't just isolated to that. There's a lot. That's happened since election night, twenty twenty a lot further undercutting our democracy in a in a meaningful, important way on election night to me that

was the line of demarcation. That was your breaking point that was for me, but to carry forward all of his contact since then has been even worse. my opinion. So, let's, let's talk about some of what the other candidates are saying or not saying this week we had a bunch of people asked about january. Six. Tim Scott doesn't hold trump responsible for the violence at the Capital pens claims, you can't know trumps intent to Santa said. It was a protest that, in his quote, and devolving you know in a way that was unfortunate as tough stuff is, is a replay of choice. Sixteen, where the only way to fight the lies verbally to call bullshit together, but nobody wants to put themselves out their wits. Well, I look. I don't what people going to conclude as they go further into the race, but I I think you know exactly

where I think we can- and I think he is morally responsible for what happened on january sex. He invited those people there. He then gave a speech where he repeated the lie that the election was stolen. He told them to go march up the capitol hill and said he would march with them. Of course, I knew he wouldn't when I was listening to it, because if there is a risk of him breaking a finger, now he's not gonna get involved, so you are back it's the safety, the white house in and then, while they were doing what they were doing up their rioting defacing. The capital, injuring and killing people and trying to interfere with the certification of a valid american election. He sat in the dining room off the oval office watching it on v and not doing a thing for numbers. He loved it, and so that's really disappointed in TIM yeah most particularly because I know TIM Scott well, and I think he is a really good person. I liked him. A lot

I think it's good man, but I just don't understand that answer and you're not disappointed. My pants cause he's a weird dude right. What, rather, I won't call MIKE a weird dude, but what I would say if you read a normal conversation with my pants come on, I have I have but maybe one time the three of us can go out now. I'd love to know what a normal conversation will look like what mike pence big eyes come on. I've had fucking deal, I have had normal conversations with like pets, but mike can't break himself away from his association with trump for whatever reason he can't. Even though he's running against him, he still can't bring himself to say the truth, which is that he incited directly incited those people to chat. Hang like pants, because in that speech on january sixth, he said it's all up to mike pence now and if MIKE doesn't do the right thing, we're all going to be very upset with him well

you don't have to question. What is intent was there and that's why I'm here said mike and wrong. Just can't figure out who run is so that's why he gave an answer that you are difficult time, yeah understanding. What have you spent a lot of times around a santa? If not, he seems like he wants to be tough, but not take on trump. It doesn't seem to be working for him Oh, I think I think we can all agree right now, including probably wrong that it's not working for me when I know you, thirty or staff and you're on your third reboot since may now things are tough, but will see what happens you never know. Do you think that wilderness is as bigger threat to america as rhonda santas does? Are you? Are you waking up in the night worried about people being woke, I don't agree with much of it, but I think that we have much bigger issues that we should all be concerned about and discussing as much as that's being too

And so on many of those issues. My view is, I think, when involves kids, we should have parents deal with that. And with only the government in the middle of this stuff on either side of it pushed. in agenda one way or another. I think parents should be the people who are dealing with their kids on stuff, like that, I'm not a big government conservative- and it looks to me like rod- is a big, every conservative and fix it. He could substitute his judgment for the judgment of parents and I think that dangerous thing for either party to get involved. I that's actually gonna ask you about this, so parents and doctors come together and decided. The best course of action for a trans teenager is to begin transition for their mental health or for their long term prospects. That's what the medical community as its basis what the team, the doctors, the parents, also in your saying the government should not be allowed I don't think it is smart and I think it's more food to do it. I don't want

to see people in government substituting their judgment for paris judgment. I can say this. I speak about this as a father. First, for an elected official and no one knows my four children better than my wife, and I know them and If my wife and I decide something, is best for our children and the guy from it wants to get in the middle of that and we have medical professionals who agree that that's the way we should do things, I think, is a very dangerous place. To go now. I know some people argue. Will we have all kinds of us? It prevent parents from doing things, but those are things that are intentionally abusive of children. I don't think you can put this in that category and, quite frankly, I think It should make these judgments, and I think government should be involved in either way. They shouldn't be out there encouraging it and they should be other discouraging it. They should let parents make these calls. We have enough problems

government unfix. Well, you think the average think where's the government out there trying to encourage people to be trying to say no, I'm saying that they should be on either side sure so that if, if someone came forward that say with a policy saying that posters in schools at say have you consider being trans rather than if that's not right, which is not a thing. There's no one country and I'm not saying that there is yet again on sand and wait. It's important to know that the both sides need to understand that if they act in a way that interferes with share its right It's that they're wrong, no matter how righteous they may think their causes. Okay and that's the point that I'm making. Ah let's talk about- and he said you know you want to be in this race to tell the truth- you're telling the truth in April of two thousand and twenty one- You recover from covered trump is run around our logo with box is trying to stay a step ahead of the Feds right, but you The lobby and buried in a scooby do basically down there you go on sean had an issue and here's what you said is an overall I give the president.

the fact of the matter is there are some things that happen specifically at the end of the presidency that clouded his accomplishments. You must kills you drive over to the government. Of course, I note the weimar exit. Try to intentionally kill me. What's a bee, look our sunrise policies. If you get the whole context of that answer, which you didn't, we were talking about the policies and- and there are many, if not most- of his policies that he tried to achieve that. I agree with, but I but I said consistently, not only in that interview, but in the autumn I was on a b c starting in january twenty eighteen, when I objected to the way he conducted himself inside the presidency and said many times that I thought he was setting a bad example. I'm doing certain things and you go back and look at the record. You'll see that that's their. So what we are talking that, specifically in the question, was specifically about the policies of the EU.

what about nothing else yeah, but you have a policy argument now till you've said he's a failed leader that he failed tribunal. Cant bomber care that he's that Iraq did the daddy, didn't build the wall, you're you're you're, making that you don't think he succeeded on policy now. Do you think a successful policy? And we are talking about his policies and what he tried to do? Not what he accomplished or didn't accomplish. That's a different question and on those issues which are bringing up now, like obamacare, like the national debt like the wall, He failed and an end to the point of making on those are that those promises he made to the american people standing on the stage debates in the primary in the general election in twenty. Sixteen, he didn't deliver and now he wants to be rehired. Well, then, you've got to consider his performance on being able get stuff done. It's not good enough of politics us to talk about it. You have to be able to

we should admit it, but you think he deserves beat on still believe you and say that donald trump, as president deserves an egg, and that's not what I said in that statement either. If you go back to the entire question uncle John and be fair about it, it was about the but his policies what he was advocating for and what he was advocating for. I would give an aid to adobe. I agree with everything in It can be. A non perfect test can be a ninety, alright, okay, it's not okay today, but still cause there's some stuff he he advocated for that I disagreed with, but that was the context of the question. So let's be fair about what it was, I guess stepping back from illness I've been what as someone from the outside, but I always think about when I see donald trump and when I see someone like you standing behind him is the saying you can kind of honest man that the real the best cons work is. It has a convinces the person whose a victim that there actually in on it

when you endorse in twenty. Sixteen, you don't just stand behind him. You say Donald trump is the kind of person that keeps his word. The world will know that you can try Donald trump did you, you believe that you believe that the Donald trump is a man who keeps his word in twenty. Sixteen when I said that I did because all my experience with donald trump from when I met him in two thousand and one through to two thousand and sixteen. When I stood on the stage was he had never broken his word to me. He had always treat me fairly and in a way that was in fact generous. I'm. So that's what I found twenty six I'm from this media market, I grew up, don't tromp was on the news famous. Bullshit artist, you tell a story now right that he called you and your governor and new jersey at a bunch of debt was his rice, make sure new jersey keeps its word. What was his advice to go bankrupt, go bankrupt, right, even was illegal and even though be overturned because you be able to what claim euro winter right was your job.

wrong about donald trump as a person I just in what I cannot understand how a person could do a full rivers and I'm glad you're out there telling them, about it now. But I don't I just don't understand how you could have come to such a diametrically opposed conclusion. After he left office after he lost. Then, if you don't understand that, then, with all due respect, your pretty small, because because if people cannot continue to learn Grow and then have an opportunity to change their mind basis, what they learn and observe and hear, then we are going to be static, a static people in the static country, and so you can continue to try to go at like three different angles on this and try to get me to say something different, but I'm not going to and the reason I'm not going to is because it wouldn't be,

through you think? If, if given that you, the breaking point, was January six, no, the breaking point was election night, twenty twond, at election night, twenty twenty to thirty. I am among those set of abc news. He came out into the east from the white house behind the seal, the president, and he said the elections what and I knew there was no way he could have known that at that moment, effort someone who is the present united states to say that the american people to knowingly under caught their confidence in our democracy purely for his own personal interest. Was the moment where I said I am done. That is a that is a absolute violation of the trust of the american people placed in you, and you are denigrating that office that you ve held and I'm done em

and if you go back and look at the video from right after his talk, George Stephanopoulos came directly to me because I asked them to like the announced what had happened and to the point where I got a text immediately from Eric trump saying to me like how can you say those things so I'm like, because you guys are out there saying this stuff, it's untrue. So I want to be clear. The breaking point for me was that January sixth january sixth added added added to it. But to me everything- and ever he did and said from election night forward is what led to january sixth, and it argues january six speech. So You are in debate prep, you thought he deserve reelection. Had he won you'd likely still be in the fold right I mean I just I you know. Can I dont know it depends on how you have conducted himself, because I was a regular critic of him in the seventeen to twenty period. When I thought he did things

we're wrong, and so I dunno what I would have been. I had already turned down for different cabinet level positions with him during that period, because I just didn't feel comfortable working for him. Alright, let's move on from trump of shock as it is it is. It is, however, could easily live people are. We only talk to me about job when, as you are passing myself, so I d as thomas do anything wrong by accepting all those gifts from Harlan crow. No, he did it nope. You think. That's! Ok, thank god! The chips not disclosing them yeah. I don't think, there's a problem with it, because Harald croton have any business before the court and if he did a business before the word, then it would have been thomas's obligation to recuse himself would have been thomas. You think he should have recused himself at harlan, crow had business for sure, okay, and he, No now he by the way, you are pleased about the gifts. It's also about a friendship. There is obviously a friendship there for a long time after he became so where does this

right? But the matter when I mean you know that it is going to come, you become friends was not happy thought like it's not like relationships and when you get into public office, and I met lots of people when I was governor, who were friends then and remain friends to this, that it is a billionaire and adjusted survived. They had no crow. The way where do they will? Are you norman? I do I don't know, and his wife she's a jersey, girl, okay, I know them both. Why they're good people- and you said that the dobbs decision was correctly decided. Yes, it was, and you believe it should be left up to the states. Yes, I do, does that mean you would veto a national abortion ban? I don't think we'll ever get one and what I've said is that until there's a consensus among the states, the federal government should stay away from the issue

and the states are the ones who have the right to make this decision and a lot of things are going to happen over the course of the next year and a half or so that are going to surprise people and already surprise people the referendum in Kansas. I think surprised a lot of people who see kansas is a red state and thought that they would vote for a ban, in effect rejected it, and you have great variety around the country. Now states are dealing with it oklahoma as bad it in every instance, except for life for the mother in my state, in a jersey, you can have it and abortion up the knife month. So I think what it shows is there's a lot of diversity of opinion on this issue around the country. We should allow that diversity to play out across the fifty states

and then, and only then should the federal government look and see. Is there a national consensus that you have the most of the country could agree with, and if there was one on whether it was fifteen weeks twenty weeks, twelve weeks whatever would be. If there became a consensus, then that's something. I think that the federal government could consider doing then and only then and by the way, if you didn't have a consensus, you'd never going to get sixty votes in the senate for it anyway, with John Mccain right when he voted against the repeal of obamacare. No, He was wrong. but I know it wasn't a replacement now. I think he was wrong and I thought why you did it. He did it to screw donald trump. I know John, Jane. I knew him really well and John Mccain was a war hero and distorted

public servant, but he also one of the best tempers and longest memories. I've ever seen in a politician and at san something- and I absolutely believe that John Mccain looked at, that vote knew the donald trump had promised this and John Mccain him fast, opposed obamacare either John Mccain voted no cause. You're good trumpet beat me up santa my war hero, calling me names, insulting me, insulting my supporters guess what thumbs down and if you think that that doesn't answer into politics at times that personal dynamic area than ever watch closely enough. So I think he was wrong on the substance, but I understand exactly why he did it so that the case where you think he that what he would his, what his his motivations are, not what he said they were. Oh, I absolutely believe that they were not No because- and I because their opposite of what he had been saying. Author is public career, so he made a different decision

so. I'm always icing him for it. So you know. that he didn't really mean what he said Because what he was saying, I says the opposite of what he said is hope, little career on that topic, and I believe that he was motivated by something else. So that's that's fine. It doesn't make his decision wrong, but does not exceed our robbing the argument I making too you know about lower conduct. Now it's not it's exactly the same effort away. I know its not jawed good try, but it's not it's not it's not because because we're talking about one discreet issue mo bomber care, and why I saying is that I believe he voted the way that I don't know, because I didn't ask him. but you will. I will relay about it, but I believe going John Mccain that that's why he did what he did and I might even say that what John did was right in doing that, but I know why I police, in a way that it begins to stand at the reason I feel the same way about you is because, actually out of respect for you, because I

think because I know, but that's real ideas. It's out of spectrum, because big but few worrying, I'm smarter than that is what you're smarter than why that's? Who believed what I said in twenty two? yeah. No, no! No! I think you're smarter than I think, you're smarter than yes. I think that you knew better. are smarter and don't believe the bullshit, you were saying about donald trump for years. I think they are better than whether you know better advisory, let alone an angel on your shoulder. I well there's devilment names on everybody. However, I'm you know what you're wrong about this one, so young a compliment, but but I fear, I believe that at the time and and have turned out to change my view based on his conduct, everything I've seen in the years since then, and that's the way I feel about it now. I appreciate your car because people listening to pod save america. Here you actually give me a compliment, is gonna, be grandma, for this guy, I'm, alas, this phenomenon is: u s attorney? Who does

at every level of sleaze and schmuck in the world, I dont knew better and I'm wrong about them. You didn't know better, you are not, then, in no better. I didn't I feel that way the time and that's not what I believed at the time. I don't think anybody, Never call me naive. The years twenty fifteen year, new Hampshire, your walk you out of a pizzeria. The question is who has better pizza, new jersey or new hampshire, orthogonal closer with signatures at the time. You said you didn't know, because you hadn't tried it well, of course, we know why didn't have tried pizza new Hampshire cause. I knew it wouldn't be good therapy dog shit, while I dunno about dog shit, but I knew it wouldn't be good. I mean these people, I'm in the pizza? I don't know about that. Sometimes you get some yo converts. I'll varies from european measure, but I think likely more likely than not. I would like new jersey, pizza when you have to do what do you think new york, you new jersey, don't recognize the existence of connecticut pizza.

We don't even acknowledge it. We should because there's some really good pizza, like you know, what's his name, others pepe's pepe's, yeah, yeah yeah. I I've been to that is good. Have you been to penile? Doesn't neptune know I'm not a neptune and neptune I'll, try it. If you are eat the extra extra large they'll get a free t shirt. I don't think I need to eat the experts who art, but I didn't either I'm trying to I'm trying to I'm trying to get a little thinner always always try for twenty years. You know this libraries are all on the olympics. Montenegro and we go we. What thank the ai said. Look I've tried. Almost every area, diet and method known to man. Try that when yet, but that might be next on the list, are governor chris Christie. John. What a pleasure, what a delight it is Are your people going kill you for having me on? I don't think, so I think I'd be fine. No look! I want to make sure look, I'm I want to make a reality of date here because being against tromp is not enough. Why you look

That's for your judgement like I didn't come in here. Thinking that I was going to turn you into a christie voter, but but what I think is there are people who listen to your show, who need to hear this stuff from a republican. So I'm not in here thinking like you know, I'm going to walk out and there's going to be. You know five thousand new campaign contributors who came off a pod, save america about what they did very happy? If I went around the debates as well, you know it's. It's a it's! An evolving thing! You've got to keep the new to add to those donors. You go to. Chris Christie, dot com and you You got a guy, be job get through that fucking believe that do not believe me, but do not legally, or I will start to curse like crazy here today. That you will know You're gone by the way I will know I will know after you. It will make you a dishonourable person shot I would add that I can't have you can be a dishonourable purse, because you know what you just did was wrong: don't you see, I would have. I would know what's wrong with my own ears. Roy, I would know, is wrong. Did you know it was wrong? Did

No, if I believe your name to tell put to sleep it. Would you know that would be wrong. Absolutely ok well done, but I thought I might do it of they. Then you know I won't do I know you will you say you're not romance object. I try to get a hold you to your work. I try to be good. I guess we're done. Thank should in fact huge precarious the eggs too many hassen and Chris Christie for joining what's save america today ever have a great we can and we will talk to next week. Pod save america is a crooked media production. The executive producer is Michael Martinez. Our producers are in, gardener Bernstein in Bolivia, Martinez its mixed in edited by andrew chadwick.

jordan. Canter is our soundings near with audio support from kyle segment in charlotte land, thanks to halley, keeper, madeline, Harrington, irish warts, Andy task and justine? How for production support into our digital team, eliza cone, Phoebe Bradford me a common then have coat and David told subscribed to pod, save america on youtube to catch full episodes, exclusive content and other community events find us at youtube. Dot com, slash at pod, save america.