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The top headline in the New York Times Homepage last night was Trump again scorn: science on vaccine and masks, which I imagine is exactly what the campaign planned is the message of the day. Just a few weeks before the election wanted that trumps scorn science headline. So what happened centres for disease control. Director Robert Redfield made to him and statements during his Senate. Testimony on Wednesday. First here. That universal mask use could end the pandemic and added quote, I might even go so far as to say that this face mask. More guaranteed to protect me against covered than when I take a covert vaccine. Second He said that even if a vaccine were approved now it won't be we generally available to the american public to get back to our regular life until MID twenty twenty one later that day trip.

While the White House Press conference to publicly rebuke Redfield for offering quote incorrect information on both the effectiveness of masks and the timeline for a vaccine. Here's what trouble I saw the statement I call them. I said what do you mean by that, and I think you just made a mistake: we're ready to go. So does the vaccine happen? I think, with these very soon when I called up Robert today I said to him: what's with the mask, he said, I think I am that question incorrectly, I think, maybe a misunderstood it so I want to dive into the specifics on both the mask comments and the vaccine comments, but like just overall decent anywhere in the White House or in the campaign, believes that Trump going to war with his CDC director is good for him that I a political plus! Well, someone in a campaign thinks that I'm just not trumps campaign because they hit the ball. Contacts here is that bind went out and gave

speech yesterday that said that if he were elected president, he would listen to the scientists when it came to the vaccine and a trumpet over the scientists, so tromp called called a press conference with the specific purpose of overruling the scientists on the vaccine So no John! It is not good for drop. I think it is probably not, how much more damage he can do to himself on how to vote? This view is management of the corona virus. It has been pretty steady high. The beginning little over the summer. That kind of study for the last six weeks, or so but every day he's tripping over its own two feet when it comes to the pandemic is indeed he is not doing anything that will help him come from behind, which is where he has in this race. I've heard that I think the voters judgment of how he handled the corona virus crisis is pretty set in stone when it comes to the past six months. The quest,

now is people want to know how do we get back to normal? You know, when can I was sort of resume my life? When is a vaccine coming, and I think the problem for Trump is it's not just did he do well in the past on handling this pandemic? It's who do you trust in the next six months in the next year in the next year and a half to finally get us out of this and there is a path for him to be that person neither there's that words it. If you another unsentimentalism signs on vaccine, it's gonna take a long time. We're gonna have a universal mask mandate for a cup months. We're gonna, then open things back up and would have rapid testing at every school at every home. We're gonna get this out there now, like he's a he could at least maybe improve his current ratings on that in yeah like. Why is he still fighting over masks? Even now that he's like a cat? slowly wearing what like what was so bad

but his CDC director sitting of the Senate in saying this mask could end the pandemic. What what does that bad for him? Well, I think just a two year? The point you dismay, tromp could do all those things, but I would have to be a different person than this trump, I don't think you can actually improve another he's capable of doing the job that he would need to do over the next few months to improve his stand is, but he could he could damage. Violence I know how the public Use Biden Undercurrent a virus, but he's too busy stepping into into it own self created masses. I read them. Ass thing is interesting and there's two different ways I think about it. One is Trump view The mask is a monument to his failure to get corona virus and control. So he's like offended when he sees answer this. If I he views that mass thing through the prism of what it says about him, what it says about his own weakness, second part is, he is very

very, very, very attentive to the very very far fringe of the Republican Party. There is aid, sentiment of thought among the far right about mass being infringed on people's constitutional rights. They are not good and he just cause it's the same reason why he is unwilling to denounce Q and on is he'd never once to lose a single member of his base and he's afraid that if he becomes pro mask, he will lose those voters that he needs to be. President of Republicans all the time. On a vaccine timeline widest Trump need people to believe that be sooner than what the CDC director set because he just promised like twenty four hours ago that they would have a before that very special day, which also happens to be the first Tuesday day enough, Bert now. This is what again speak suggest how short sighted he s, because people are going to vote on that clinical, special day, and they will now on that. She'll day whether a vaccine has come here. Much better off

talking about some shorter time line. There was passed the election day. You know here the the trompe equivalent of Nixon Secret can plan for peace in Vietnam. Why he's puddings opposition where people will know on the day in which he is telling them to vote Nazi vote earlier, but you vote that day in person that he failed at that so its once again a you know. Is doubling down are particularly stupid, tactical move he made. You know what he's gonna do here, we're gonna hear from one or more of these companies that the trials on well and he's going to, hopefully the great and he's going to use that news to say the vaccine is here. It is happening, and then all of these pharmaceutical companies are gonna, throw out all kinds of caveat and be like you know the their feet,

Three trials went well, but we still have not manufactured yet we're still always from distribution. We're not gonna have a four months and then terms can be like. Oh forget them like that. There are huge, to take the headline and then and then lie and say that the vaccines right around the court that could work his voters, but true he already has, but we ve seen in pulling in that novel. Our current virus tracker looks at this question about who you trust. Morn. A vaccine in Democrats in Congress are overwhelmingly more trusted in Trump. In democratic progress, although more popular interest and Republicans are like eight in points underwater so he's already sort of did not like on the list of October surprises of things. I worry about tat. Being able to fabricate some sort of miss around a forthcoming vaccine is very well on my list of concerns so, as you mentioned, Joe Biden gave a speech earlier that day, as luck would have it about. He gave a speech after a two hour briefing with his current virus advisers to talk about his plant and the pandemic, and

tribute to safe, effective vaccine to the whole country. Here's a clip Biden speech. So let me be clear I trust vaccines, trust the scientists but I don't trust Donald Trump more with the american people can't either last week so you're Harrison. I made out Three questions this illustration is gonna. Have to answer to assure the american people that politics will not play a role whatsoever in the vaccine process, what right here will be used to ensure that, Maxie meets the scientific standard of say, The ineffectiveness. What's the criteria. Second, If you administration green light a vaccine who will validate that? The decision was driven by size rather politics. What group scientists will that be thoroughly?

How can we be sure that the distribution of the vaccine will take place safely, cost free and without a hint of favouritism, so by saying we have to listen to the science and not tromp when it comes to a vaccine trumpet the Republicans are now accusing by dint of being an anti back, Sir, who will the American people believe Do you know Jude likely it's two different realities who could decide have you ever see? You know? I say this not just from the trunk campaign. I see it from asshole anti antitrust, conservative journalists that you know there's Oh there's out, there's a lot of wows from reporters when certain Democratic Canada, Cow Cunningham and Debate North Carolina said I'd, be hesitant to take Donald Trump word for on a vaccine and reporters and supply

eyes. The Democrats are saying this like is this something that could have traction? That's, like Democrats are playing politics with a vaccine now I mean: can there be a series of really bad press coverage that could sandy the edges of trumps giant problem on this. Yes, is Is there going to be a world in which the public all the sudden trust trump on a vaccine as much as a democrat or more democratic? But we did better press coverage in this because saying that you do, I trust someone who was already announced he is going to put aside the vaccine process is a completely common sense, a natural thing to say, like you, wouldn't trust tromp, to give you a tissue, let alone a vaccine. You told us to drink, bleach, hypocrites two things why they all look stupid and did Alex stupid. The other people who question this because, most of the questions were before trams press conference yesterday. So it's like water down

cried saying about vaccines that now they might not trust trouble about and they say that and then Trump cards, a press conference where he replied his CDC directors comments. Vaccines, where you rebukes CDC directors comments on the effectiveness of masks like win. For a possible Donald Trump make sure he seizes the opportunity to say the two his judgment which is based on making sure he is re elected for science, for the judgment of scientists everywhere, he's done it time and time again to it is. It is we like the hallmark of his leadership through the pandemic. Overly science. Again and again, that's a hallmark of his entire presidency, climate change pandemic the other thing, and it is not something that is new to him. He is someone who is we ve started up before as raised

false conspiracy theories about vaccines? For years now, look at me, I think, for people who are hoping for a vaccine that is effective, safe and that is distributed quickly, which I certainly come on as one of those people like. I think we can be sure that, if the FDA like, if, if there is vaccine that works in a phase three trial. It is not going to be like Trump and a bunch of scientists that let us know this right. This is a global race for a vaccine. There are scientists all over the world.

I ve been working on this. There are companies all over the world invested as there are governments all over the world invested in this. I believe that we will know if a vaccine a safe or if Donald Trump is just telling us a vaccine, is if we will know the difference, because this is such a global effort, but I do think that the question that voters are going to have to answer is in Biden hid it this in his sort of last criteria that he mentioned is how who do we want distributing a vaccine in this country which, which candidate do we want distributing of acting that safe, effective and it's gonna go to the people who needed as fast as possible? Do we want Donald Trump, who basically punished blue

states during the beginning of the pandemic? To do we think that Donald Trump is going to fairly and equitably distribute vaccines to everyone this country, or do we think, he's going to take care of his people? People who voted for people support for him, rich people and not everyone else like I. If I were Biden and the Democrats, I would say pushing on that matter. More than anything else that the distribution of this vaccine in the hands of Donald Trump is going to be a fucking disaster and it's gonna be politicized because he politicized everything else. There. Think. That's a really good point and an opportunity for the vine campaign. Like do you want your its teacher to get a vaccine. Do you want firefighters, gonna vaccine, or do you want? I propose a negative like So the choice now that's exactly own. Of course that's gonna happen. Of course that's can have you said of press conference yesterday, if you took out the blue states, there were, Be that many deaths

which is also incorrect. It is also incorrect because, like five at the top, ten states with the most deaths in this country are ready. What's up while every year we do our job. Some there become blue, so you have a that. Every means, tromp that lose Florida will shift the balance, the blue column heap he might play along with that? I was safe, Yesterday, like the other one last thing I was surprised about it all is that I am surprised that this is the territory the truck wants to focus. The campaign right now is who can better manage pandemic because it doesn't seem like a territory that he should want to fight. On you know, like he's done his lot order stuff his crime stuff. You know he is he's sleep tighter ahead on economic issues, but it keeps coming back to the pandemic in time, but the pandemic when every. Single Paul shows Joe Biden with an enormously on who can handle the pandemic, and jobs are drawn from just keep Stepan right into it. John,

It's been almost four years now and I'm gone in the sense that he is not some sort of master strategist, there is not a game plan here. He is is not red. Sun Tzu like this is not possible that he bring to bear the strategic acumen of arrest in trying to cheese bright we are living in a pavlovian presidency right like that is what is happening only thing, I wondered just trying to look at it from every angle to see if we're missing anything, I wonder if worse, if we are missing like a disease, higher for normal see that will make people are enough. People want to believe tromp that may be masks aren't really needed. The vaccine is just around the corner that we just need to get back to our lives that we don't want to keep wearing mass. They don't wanna, keep saying at home like is there any evidence in the polling that that desire for normalcy exist. There is evidence that there is a strong desire for normal, say, bye.

It is going in the opposite direction of our trump. What's right right, there are many many you know as well as we say both on this package, and, apparently on stress balls in the March store. We worry about everything panic about nothing but I don't like. I don't think we're missing something here. It may turn out to be not, as it's a question which we want it to be that people will made value other things when they go into never better. They're going to all the sender, adopt Donald, try, the view of the pending, because all of the polling, even among Republicans, is that people want more social decency, not last the word about opening up to quickly rather than too slowly and they believe in mask and that has not changed- has been very steady for a very long period of time so hasn't been able to control the raises narrative all week Tuesday night he appeared a ABC News, Town Hall and Pennsylvania President Face question:

from moderator, George Stuff Annapolis Intergroup of undecided voters, who pressed him on quite a few issues just want to go through a few of these exchanges. Here's trump answering a question about systemic racism, Of course. The phrase make Amerika great again, when has American been great for African Americans in a ghetto of America? Are you aware how tone deaf that comes off to african american community? Well, I can say this: we have tremendous african american support. You probably seen it in the polls we're doing extremely well with the african American Hispanic American at levels that you ve seen a Republican have we need to see

Could you say again we need to see when was the great? Could that pushes us back to a time in which we cannot identify with such greatness? And I mean you said everything else about choke in everything else. Would you have yet to address indignation? It has been a race problem in America, so a view go well. I hope is not a real problem. I can tell you there's none with me. I just lotta parts, but that exchange theirs. But I really I really enjoyed him answering the question about systemic racism by. We're doing phenomenal. You probably seen it in the polls hardly probably see how well I'm doing with lag voters in the I'm sure. I'm sure you have, I think that you know that was a fat. Elevator change is fascinating. Our whole ways like the question. Truly incisive in Bryant, because it gets at the absolute core of why make Amerika great again is all and we don't talk about, it- is explicitly enough which is trouble It is running on a restorative nostalgia appeal to

time in which white people in white christian Speaker had total control the political power in America and in his fuel. The lot of the enthusiasm for Trump amongst some segment of the population is this. Fear of a changing America, where this can be when the not too distant future, where white people are a minority in the country where we ve just recently had a by president and is basically saying the question goes right at the core of that now: trump did not get that right. He did that. That did not is interesting for someone with as such an in depth studious knowledge of history that he did not fully comprehend that does go once again to what we ve always talked about, which is one of the better messages against Trump his trunk First America last and Trump can even take a question about systemic racism, in view of the first, his own reelection. Eggs, and also so you know I hope there's not a problem, And- and America will certainly not around with me right- it's over

its literally over him. Also, the only thing he can say about racism. In his mind, the only thing he says every time you ask this question is basically the in the car. Me. He inherited from Brok. Obama included some of the lowest levels of unemployment for black Americans. That's it that's all. He can say he has things to say about his own actions over the last four years. He has nothing to say about what he's going to do in the next four years. He has nothing to say about any other problem that confronts black Americans in this country. Nothing. He has one stat about unemployment, but he just said over and over again and we're gonna, tell you what this means for the debate, but I think if you Joe Biden, fits you know that all Trump has ever said can ever say in public when he's not hiding behind this tweets, you know about black Americans is. They should basically be happy that before the pandemic, there was a good unemployment rate

that's that's drums message. Hears trumped standing by his comments at the corona virus will just disappear and we are going to be ok, we're gonna be ok and it is going away and is probably going to go away now lot faster because of the vaccine. It would go away without a vaccine George, but it's going to go away a lot faster with go away without the vaccine sure over a period of time sure, with time it goes any deaths and you'll develop. You'll developed heard like a herd mentality, it's gonna, be it's gonna, be heard developed and that's gonna happen. That will all happen, but with a vaccine I think it will go away very quickly. You know everyone, folks rightly so on the phrase heard mentality, but he follows up with its gonna be heard developed We heard developed You know that somewhere people say that's true-

it will be heard developed. I mean I also like it's. It's always the case with trumped that we can mark the ridiculous words he uses because he's Domini doesn't understand anything but there's something incredibly frightening about that answer because, following a strategy of heard, immunity in this country would mean millions more deaths. Millions more deaths and he just sort of that that he's just fine saying I mean this is been a problem for many years. We are we. Come ourselves included or really focus on the dumbness of trumps words and other dangerous of his ideas, and this is

like we're all. Don't you want him for heard mentality? We will probably be nameless podcast heard mentality that seems highly likely get recast as low as long as our what I'm trying to cut off Mr Eliza S, YO cone at the pass here, and I hope that by making the sausage on tape, buyers recalled smash that subscribe and pursue it but you're eating its incredibly dangerous and is ultimately why the strategy laid is because it had a virus. It is, it is the one that require that eventually gets trumped where he wants to be, which is the virus spreads less, but hath, because it is already infected and killed lots of people with him doing the least amount of work register of the problem of the virus quickly is hark. He spent his life of working, hard work, and so this is the path of least resistance for Trump somebody. Forty onest pressing our yesterday, who is tested all the time everyone he comes to counter It looks ass. If that is not a privilege.

Will do the rest of us who would suffer in this heard mentality strategy? If you ask me for developing this. Her developed, No, he bade. His strategy is basically to tell older and sick or people. Stay home, think that will protect them, which it won't because they all live with people who will be going out. Into the world's when working anyone's everyone else back to work because he thinks, like you said that will fix the economy that will get everyone back to normal and the piano people who were very vulnerable to this virus, like hey Festival, to the best of luck to you in his conventions, be she said, you know we are protecting them, they're, not doing anything to protect vulnerable populations at all. Their basically is telling them hate. Be careful. That's it! That's all it's done! That's that we, that is the Trump plan for the virus. Basically, he is whatever comes first heard: immunity heard mentality or a vaccine. That's that's his plane and hears here's an exchange with a voter who asked by health care. I think this is an important one

I was born with a disease called Sarka doses and The day I was born, I was considered uninsurable that disease started in my skin moved to my eyes into my optic nerve, and when I went to graduate school into my brain, hit. My brain, I was automatically eligible for disability for the rest of my life. I chose instead to get, after those degree a masters degree a phd and become a professor, great, It is great, except I still have similar healthcare problems caused me with cold days I'm still paying almost seven thousand dollars a year in addition to the color pay and should pre existing conditions, which old my care brought into what for wishing be removed? No, That is please stop, and let me finish my question. Sir. Should there be removed within

in thirty six to seventy two hour period. Without my medication I will be dead and I want to know what it is that you're gonna do to ensure that people- like me who work hard. We do everything we're supposed to do stay. In short, is not my fault that I was born with this disease is not much all that I'm a black woman and then the medical community minimized and that take us seriously, I want to know what you are going to do about that, so Furthermore, I hope you are taken seriously. I hope you are and we are not going to hurt anything having to do with pre existing conditions. We're not gonna, hurt pre existing conditions and infectious opposite. If you look at what they want to do, where they have social as medicine, they will get rid of sick of pre existing conditions if they go into, There's a new plan, just like you could forget under president obama- and I just have to stop you there is it just a couple of points. Another one Joe Biden has rent

have to stop you there is it just a couple of points number one Joe Biden has ran against Medicare for on the primary, but much more importantly, Obamacare guaranteed with pre. Existing conditions could buy insurance guarantees. They could buy, does the same price as everyone else guarantee the package of essential benefits guaranteed that insurance companies can put a lifetime limit on benefits, you fought to repeal Obama care you're argue. While I eventually do you already argued in this dream or right now to strike down that would do away with pre exist. So if we do new health care, even promising a new health care, so either. There is interesting for a couple reasons: the first is just that in the first question about systemic racism, It is really hard for him to have interactions with real voters. Like, Maggie Haber, men had interesting take about the town hall shoes treating from by only doing rallies and almost never doing town how forms has been insulated from

kind of voter interaction that usually helping comments as their running, but he craves adulation and many of his aids enable it so Town Hall is bracing for it. What do you think? That's why think that's every trump lives in a bubble. Raise notch his Fox NEWS right wing media bubble. It is it he is completely surrounded by people whose entire existence is to profit off of top right. So he he. Never here is bad news. He never hears criticism. He only hears what he wants to hear as like, and then Klute appalling. In his own campaign. Right, there is a famous story of when Brad Pascal came in, showed him pulling. This He was in trouble trumpet, We throughout the office threaten environment, came back magically a couple days later, with better pulling in everything good and so when he has to actually interact with people who exist outside of the Trump media ecosystem. It's like visiting another planet, but he's not. He doesn't know these people exist. He doesn't know they have these critics of him. He doesn't know about their concerns. He just as completely detached from reality, and that is done disappear

I'm not just in the context is we're gonna talk about of what happens in debates when he has to deal with this, but it also affects campaigns ravaging messaging, because he is campaigning to be president of a country, it does not actually exist outside the confines of Fox NEWS, and that is why he does things like that Prescott. Must we reference earlier? Does he doesn't he's not living in the same realities? The rest of Us Pod, save America is broadly by Amazon Prime videos, timely new documentary all in the fight for democracy produced by featuring the one and only Stacy Abrams all end. Offers an insiders look into laws and barriers to voting that most people, don't even know, are threats to their basic rights as citizens. All like you know she produces an she's in it. It's like when numb. What's his name may that documentary about the bare guy Verna Herzog accepts in this case the bear our is efforts to suppress the vote.

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we can't you can get. The Elles report is all day long. He gets challenged, but it gets challenged by. What does he cousin fake news and then he moves on when he's faced with voters. He can't he can't play that game, and so it's a little tougher him, but why wouldn't you think about when you were like watching this? How about what that might mean for a bit I mean it. I think it is a it's a huge warning sign for emphatically, as you mentioned, that second debate, which is a town hall one he you know a bunch of plants in their right. He did this yesterday, where his life, he gets it up. Question unease is like oh away. In fact his life. He gets it. I've question unease is like oh away. In fact, bright barnyard. He always has a safe harbour line that adds that will existed that debate, but it The other thing that I think we should use modular expectations is which he can just vomit up a bunch of words that don't mean a tonne and unless he is very specifically in aggressively pressed on those points here

look out of touch, and that is bad for him, but It is very hard to press tromp because he will just changes lie in the middle. The conversation he will. We just you can say a lot of words, most of them not true, many of them nonsensical and at the end is high. For someone, you pull out a coherent thought from them, and that is somewhat to his benefit. I think it is. I think, in that last clip about praising additions. Georgia monopolise did an admirable job. To fact check him. I do not know that any of the moderators in the debates will be. Well to spend that much time fact checking Donald Trump. I dont think its realistic for us to think that they will. I think they should, I think, he's you know in a perfect world they would buy. Things would be hard as it there's a time limit on these debates. I don't, I also don't believe the Joe Biden Wines, that debate by playing fact checker for an hour and a half on Don

lies like I dont know that that gets him anywhere. I think like to me binds argument about trumps should be that he's a week ineffective prison. Who's in over his head, Michelle Obama line because he can't focus on anything other than himself this. What we ve talked about it. You know we know, according to the research like. That is what the largest and brought us group of voters believed to be true about Trump. That includes undecided, infrequent voters, some trumpeters, so everything that binds has about trumps should fit within that frame. If Trump lies on that stage in the debate stage about protecting preexisting condition, which he will Biden should say Do you even know that your administration is in court right now trying to eliminate these? protections. Are you aware that your butt? has eliminated these protections for years in a row. Can you explain why you been promising? People are healthcare plan for four years, but didn't actually do anything. I had this great line that a few weeks

go either does even know he's president at think by making him out to be a doddering old idiot early on whose completely out of touch with people and basically is so absorbed with himself tat. He allows the chaos around him to just like hurt the people that he supposed to govern is probably the most effective message than after Biden says that he pivots too. You know I was part of a team that actually passed of key reform, and I'm ready you again. Here's my plant- and he looks like the more competent president- was also in touch with the needs of the american people and cares about them and will fight for So it seems to me that, like there is a way to fit trumps lies into a frame of trump has no idea what the fuck he's doing is present two points on this, which I I don't agree with. What as you are corrected Biden is not three washing imposed fact, Checker Pinocchio

away from becoming president? We know he's running to be president, not theatre, a political fact. That is also he does need to correct wise about his rights because, as we're gonna talk about, there is a tremendous, of knowledge, about what Biden stands for. And prompt, goes on stage and lies about it in both the moderator and Biden do not correct m. That could be damaging Second, I think the other way to look at this is when we taught think bout trust in politics? We ought to think about terms of honesty and they got some mistake. Voters tend to believe, and most politicians at bare minimum shade the truth and often lie enough particularly to have dropped like that is bacon suffocate. That's the entirely stupid seriously, not literally construct that exists out there too. In politics, particularly presidential politics is more about capacity than honesty,

and what that means yours do use is not do you trust him to tell you the truth every time sustainably acquisitions is, do you trust them to make your life's better to keep the country safe to protect you from a pandemic and that's where the approach you talk about, makes a lot of sense, which is undermining the idea that tromp is up to the job of prayer. As Mr Barroso spoke about us, it is your binding, come set throughout this campaign and while doing that, you have to also build up their belief that you can do it. So it's gonna be a bit of both the debate is the rate is fascinating and incredibly scariest. We talked about Eighty four million people watched the first debate. Two thousand sixteen. I suspect that number could be higher this time. Ya. Given the inability to ensure that doesn't sixteen September people had plans outside the house that they may or may not be available to them right now, I do wonder how Ouch Troms proof

payments is going to map now, I think, I think, bind the performance will matter more. Then trumps performance. I feel like ten Exmoor. I think we know we know what and a trump we're gonna get on that debates, which we all know he's gonna lie a bunch he's gonna get defensive when buying put some of the different he's going to EL about things, is gonna. Make up shit about Biden. He's gonna act like his presidencies The best thing ever he's gonna safeguard, there's gonna, be a whole bunch of times the trumps. It's crazy, fuck and things that it be on Twitter, like we know it. It

and we're we're about side. What with the pole is the questions not can Joe Biden Like put Donald Trump in his place? Rightly, people have largely decided what they think about I'll drop. The question is: can bind both defend his record from trumps attacks without seeming defensive and give people the confidence, like you said that he can bring this country out of a pandemic, manage and economic recovery, and just basically led this country better than trumpets and actually has plan, and does he have play there were tangibly improve people's lives and a path to get those plans done. That's what Joe Biden needs to do and divide people who don't have a strong opinion of your mind. That will be looking for that, and so, if Japan spends all his time in in a back and forth Trump, it he's vanilla time fact checking trump. It he's in those times attacking trump. He will miss the opportunity to do those things, and I would bet anything that in debate prep right now, you know they their time, thereby

That is before you walk out. That debate stage. Like here the three things you have to do- and I bet a lot of those things- are you know making sure people know what he stands for and what he do as President So, let's talk about the latest instalment crooked media change research, polar coastal series. God knows that I got you like the sound effects that we value, I guess I can't even really like eight of these two vigour, it Who do we pull this time so, but in September night in September. Thirteenth. We surveyed. Three thousand ninety, eight new or infrequent voters across the six closest battleground states, areas, Florida, Michigan North Carolina Pennsylvania and was content. We d find new and infrequent as three different types of voters.

Voters are registered for the first time in twenty sixteen voters who skip two thousand and sixteen and voters who skip two thousand and eighteen? Why do we pick these kinds of voters? Well, we spend a lot of time focused on people who switch their vote from one party the other Obama, Trump voters or Trump bind voters around me Clinton voters then a lot less time on the people who are deciding between loading and not voting, even though these are people who could transform the entire electorate, because there are a lot of Anything else out about why we chose this group of voters well That's it under. As you point out, it's an under scrutinise group they very well can be how Biden whence I did. This is a group we will talk about this pole are critical. You turned them out. They will make up them. They make the difference and six progress are also the you know. We did this pole it

to give the Biden campaign advice or provide guidance to the Dnc or a super everything it is to inform, our listeners, the folks who have adopted a state or who are volunteering in various ways, how to keep Kate, with the people in the other, under their phone or in their lives, who are reluctant voters who are new to this we're thinking up, I don't ever want to give their actual specific message: guidance, was this- is, I think, a way to offer people actionable advice on how did to turn out the people in your life. You are targeted, as we all know, that a lot of voters like this a particularly for environmental yet because believe it or not. If you are and organizer volunteer- and you are tax banking or phone banking reaching out to voters, your list is not going to include a lot of the mega hat wearing Trump supporters that the New York Times interviews and diners. If I hope not, Otherwise, the lists Iraq, but your your list of people will probably include a lot of people

were deciding whether or not they vote in the print first place hopeful. You know infrequent voters, new voters, people who are you know or who are undecided still in so we do hope that the message is that we tested will help you in your conversations with these voters. So what do we find out to some top? and now we can dig in we found it by leaves this group of voters forty nine to thirty seven percent, which is an improvement over how, click did with these voters who split this group with tromp, thirty, five to thirty percent and twenty sixteen binds biggest gains over Clinton among suburban voters, latina voters, young voters and women These voters overwhelmingly say intend to vote in twenty twenty, even though a lot of them are infrequent voters, only three percent said their definite. Or probably not voting, and only five percent said that there is still a maybe seventy six percent rate there motivation to vote a ten out of ten, There are still about nine percent, who are undecided and nine

and who say, there's a chance they could vote for another candidate still, which is a larger share of uncertain borders. Then then we see a normal poles of the our electorate, din it is the policy say about who these voters are and what they think about both candidates? This All unsurprisingly, shows that this is a group of voters who engage with politics and political news less than certainly we do, and I was so people who subscribe to a pike s like us in America, it also shows the way you can see this in the numbers, which is nearly half of the underside of voters in this pole, have no pinion on job? I quit, right here. Somebody was vice president states four years ago, though, that I shall say Trevor Benedetto. Like nominee for six months and AIDS. Like they do not have yet have enough information to have a conclusion, a shockingly high. Number of them also have no donna about Trump like this is the hardest from voters to get, as you point out, lots of good news, and here they are

more able to Biden than the electorate of raw. They are more engaged and I think we even thought possible at this point. Given all the conversation about enthusiasm for binding concerns about Politic, a pandemic, and I think the really interesting and form part of this undecided number shows real room for growth for Biden with this car. Yeah. That was also interesting. Like you know, and this this is typical Undecided voters, but the underside of voters in this Paul are largely negative about both candidates, but there are much more strongly negative about Trump he's got a negative. Fifty three percent favour. Billet than Biden has negative thirty, eight So there's obviously, like you, said more growth for buying and is also important to remember, because we're gonna talk about you know Anti Trump messages versus provide messages. Most of these people have made up their minds about Donald Trump, in other still, some who would be swayed by information about I'm having completely made up their minds,

They are strongly negative about Donald Trump and yet, even though their strongly negative, they still haven't decided which, they tell us something that it's not just. More antitrust stuff. It's gonna put them over the edge because a lot of them have made up their minds about Donald Trump. Was interesting that undecided voters here said that the weather make up their minds. More research on their own about the candidates. Forty seven percent said that, which is scary, because God knows where they're gone for information and I'm listening to the debates, nineteen percent said will help them make up their mind so that you know one in five of these undecided. Voters say that the dates are going to help them make up their mind, which goes to the importance of the debates before we get to the message test that we did. What other good news did you see for buying this pole and what, if anything concerned, you are indeed the other good news? Is we tested sixteen different questions about who you trusted more on these issues like economy, coveys, crime, immigration, healthcare, tell you

with a whole bunch of things, bitingly fifteen or sixteen, and this is in a world in which the voters do Know very little about by so they, like their feelings, are so strong and even in issues where they probably could not name one element of binds immigration plainer carefully in or crime plan they default to believing by Miss better, and that is a strong base to start from that, you can only strengthen by providing for more information. So us about that was an important piece of good news. Now because we could never focused too much on good news here. That concern thanks and we'll talk about this, some of this one seconds tromp so retain some surprising strength strictly on the economy, but all these voters are hearing a time about writing alluding in this buttresses other funds, machine and other pulls recently, which is Trump and way. Media mission has had real success and move in the conversation somewhat off of kroner virus onto in issue the impact. Which they are massively exaggerate and

so these are. We will engage with traditional news less than your average voter, and they are here ton about rioting and looting and crime, and that's the problem is much bigger than foxes. These are not Fox news watchers. By definition, they are not people who read bright barter: the daily collar was across it. They are people who are generally getting a lot of information that is poor bring the issue environment and trumps direction, and that is alarming, some in the context of this race, because that's the poll shows trumpets is not really trusted on solving the problem. Trump wants to focus on, but if It's really import what you said that it they're not just Fox news. What large about how bad and flawed the information ecosystem currently as America, It's really import. What you said that it they're not just Fox news watchers either, because basically we ass, we had a list of items and we said what do you fear right and the growth of racism in America.

Feared by seventy two percent of voters, including seventy five percent of independence and forty three percent of Republicans. We then ass white supremacist. What you feel about its premises also was very feared by a lot of voters and thirty percent of Republicans, which is somewhat hopeful debts depending on how you look at it. I would have thought it would be worth, but so these are the same. Voters who fear the rise of racism in America also fear looting, rioting and crime and american cities. Sixty six percent of voters fear that including fifty one percent of Democrats, and now that was right after climate changes ass, a slightly more people. Voters fear climate change, which is a good thing, but it was above. Fearing covert nineteen on the list. Some more. People were afraid of losing riding in crime and american cities than the virus. The deadly virus that spreading through the country, which is a very scary thing. I think

yeah, and you saw that we saw similar finding in the New York Times Sienna College Poles over the weekend in some of the four states they this is we should not be dismissive of the fact that the right, wing media advantage in this country is gigantic. This most of them it's not just- and it doesn't just exist on Fox. It exists on Facebook, primarily on Facebook. Youtube like that. There are all kinds of sources that are getting to. These people in the end. The mainstream media is also falling, for this right is part of the both sides ISM giving undo the way to tribes coverage, and sometimes the stories written about it are very fair. They point out the trumps, exaggerating and he's for shit on all that, but it is head wine and the images are getting shared out across social media, and it is permeating the public consciousness in a very concerning way. There's so. We basically offered a list of lies and conspiracies Vanessa people believe them

thirty to forty percent of voters, Muslim Republicans believe every conspiracy, retested Biden have serious mental health issues. Biden is a puppet. By wanting to do on the police, only nine, and Americans have died of covered. All these lies a lot Republicans believe them. Fortunately, obviously, almost no Democrats and fewer independence, and then we asked for one word: descriptions of Biden, Trump trumped them, and words were like Lyre corrupt, strong leader, I think, by The most common positive word was honest, which is good. That was the most common word to describe him. The most negative word was puppet. Some focused on age and frighteningly too, percent of voters used the word pedophile, which is a q and on conspiracy, it's a right wing conspiracy is bubbling up there. You know they were just about all tromp supporters by

this is something that is like bubbling up in the dark corners of the internet. Now, which is you know? Sometimes we know like the conspiracies, like you know, there's going riding in every city and you know trumps lies about covert, but there other conspiracies that are sort of like in these dark corners of the internet. That sometimes we mess, and I think this is one of them well, but the dark Rosita. You mean trumps Twitter feed because he revisited one of these twenty four hours ago. How? But I gather that our court of internet for fairness, suddenly the message we tested dean. You remember about this for your outstanding morning, news letter, the message box health about what you found and tell us a little bit about the message box at another. We ve actually talked about it on the pot we have not actually talked about it forever, the villa we we have. We have alluded to it and, as anyone who watches campaign experts react are Youtube Series on that's knows I'm a politically awkward promoter of my own enterprises. I would I actually did

like, was going to announce it on a broadcast, and then your son was born hours. We have, yours, are yours, wifi, labour hours before we get it, and I was so consumed with doing you're much harder job of moderating the pot gas that I can do it, and here we are a six week letters. So the message box is a political newsletter. I started about six weeks ago there with the idea that one I wanted to write more in depth. Bout. What has happened in politics would also was born of this vision of politics. I have where. We in the Democratic Party, do not do enough to empower supporters to be that too. The message for us in the in an age where everyone has access social media and a smartphone. If we give them the sort of invite message, guidance that we give politicians in campaigns bacon help us take on this massive, rightly media, then you're talking about So it's called the message bicycles to do

political analysis, but also offer people actionable advice on how they can communicate with voters in their last much like we're doing right here and I am confirming a portion of every subscription every month to the election to black voters matter Latasha Grounds Group. We talked about here many times message Subscribers are already on pace to raise fight dollars. Fur. But what is not as it. My goal is to double that by the election, which now suggested quite quite challenging, but if you Like to subscribe, isn't it is message box that subject outcome and I it is also my pinned tweet. If, because I know you are constantly all my twitter profile baser you, Divert usually so that's if that. So that's news letter in the newsletter this morning I took what we found the pole and toll in road

strategic member about what we do with it and, as you mentioned, there's lots of good news, and here there is room for growth. So the question is: how do we grow binds margin? How do we turn those undecided voters into Biden? Voters were going to turn out. A pandemic is a two step process. The first is tromp continues to maintain an economic advantage He has a forty nine percent economic approval. He has a twelve when advantage among the undecided voters, overthrew they trust to manage the economic recovery and interestingly enough, the day the two best messages that we tested, the both persuasive ones with the overall population in this pole, and the underside of voters are about care and can pick comparing contrasting binding trumps economic plans? focusing particularly on how trouble to cut a sturdy Medicare in medical to pay for tax cuts for the well being so as we sarka before there is a two process to take down trumpet economy first part is

voters that he is a put a grant, not a populist immediately by talking about the things he actually wants to do and has done including most potent is toxic. And the second is a forum people binds plans. They simply do not know enough about by its plans to come to a conclusion, on the economy in particular has trump. Has this aura of credibility from his business? Experience is bullshit as it is, and the priest but economy. The second peace that I took ravens for that is absolutely critical for all of us who were trying to help Joe Biden Win, is winning to help voters, know more about Joe Biden in its plants. They simply do not know enough. You know she's, was mentioned. Nearly half of the underside of voters have, Can you not Joe Biden? They know very little about his plans and we did this exercise or we ask people what they had recently heard about. The two candidates and You very good news as relates to trunk. These nine engage voters. The number one story was the Woodward book and the number two story was the Atlantic article right so like that,

yeah. You know, we say tough over nothing, matters crowd what form, but bite in the most popular Answer- was nothing nothing They couldn't remember, hearing anything about job I and so what that says it negative. Information about tromp is getting to these voters organically and positive information about business now, so we to lean in to provide as such. It doesn't mean you stop negative negative. Contrast message: email trumpeters, but you do it together and a message that is just negative against tromp is of limited utility, with these voters at least compared to a message that comparison contrasted plans of the two candidates, and so we we just two in our cars voters and our social media postings Our social families in France spend more time talking about what Joe Biden would do as president to help overcome this right wing media advantage- and I just want to give people some specifics, so we tested programme messages as well. Trumps best message was on the economy.

And it is Joe Biden is proposing four trillion dollar tax hoped that would kill jobs and collapse. The economy Trump says he already built the greatest economy in history during his first term and will do to get in his second term so that we have appointment soaring incomes and record prosperity. I tried to be as fair to Donald Trump. As possible when I wrote that that is what he says. Basically what is it his advertisements on the economy are saying as well that message tested the best of all the Trump programme as it is that we have made in the air it worse than every other Pro Biden message that we tested on every other single issue, the number one testing message of all. As you said, this was tied with with healthcare. This is economy, message for binding Donald Trump says the economy is great, because the stock market is up and wants to cut Medicare medicate in social security in order to fund more tax cuts for the rich, binds had a strong economy depends on a strong middle class and when

only the wealthiest one percent to pay higher taxes. So we can expand health coverage, invest clean energy infrastructure and create five million manufacturing and technology jobs. So the message works because it has a few things. It does have a contract with Donald Trump. It talks about what Joe Biden would do in terms of values. It does what you said, which is it turns into a plutocrat out a populist ETA, gives some specific about Joe Biden Plan, the healthcare But we do have even more specifics about binds plan. We say that by by and wants to give everyone. The choice to unroll in a Medicare, like insurance plan, makes her. No American pays more than eight point five percent of their income on premiums, which is a policy I'm sure, no one knows about Joe Biden, healthcare plan, I didn't even know that existing statistic- and I was looking at the other day and bring

and the cost of prescription drugs by long Medicare to negotiate with drug companies. So I think- and you talk about this- a lot in poles messages that tend to pop are ones that give voters. You know that their value statements, but they also give voters new information that they don't have they have a piece of new information there, and there are so many pieces of new information about your binds plans on health care on the economy, on climate on race, We should mention that three, the other messages the tested almost as well as the economy in healthcare care, the very close or message on race for everyone whose now afraid of a race message.

Because of what we found on unloading and writing Joe Biden's message on bringing the country together in supporting peaceful protesters was very powerful. His message on climate was very very effective at moving voters and his message on education, which has been such a sleeper issue. I think, in this raised by MS some great education proposals from universal Pre k for three and four year olds to making for your college free for anyone make an under one hundred twenty five thousand dollars to making community college absolutely free for everyone to forgiving student loans in exchange for national service. All of these proposals. Have the ability not just to find favour with some of these undecided voters and undecided voter saying that they're going to agree with that statement, but it actually moves vote and we found that after testing all of these messages with voters, the horse race number actually moved three points in binds direction to fifty two from forty nine

which is basically a bigger jump than we ve seen and almost any of the change Paul's that we ve done. So this cohort undecided infrequent. Voters are persuadable and messages about Joe Biden. Plans can move them into his call very important Yet what is really fascinating and port here is that this shows that these vote. One is a fortnight and they, like his power since they find his message in persuasive. They just have to hear and- Now some people responded to the various peace. In tweets. We had this morning say- is that you guys been saying, but I need to know more about buying from what's What is this say about his campaign? Well, the fact that these matters are super engaged in a very positive sign for buttons campaign, but these are the hardest voters to reach in every election. Whether its Obama but Joe by anyone else and were going to be trying to persuade them all the way up until the moment, the Poles close an election like that. It's just that it is the task right in

the gains we make. Among these words between now and election day, they could vote well the side, the electric consistent People who want to support by they just have to be convened, and we know that the arguments were interviewed is just there is with them Road map is clear. We must have the work to do between now, and I also think it is. It is very difficult to break through in this media environment, where everything is about Donald Trump. All the time and look like Donald Trump says Chris shit and argues with his CDC director right you're Joe Biden urine his campaign. Let's say you thought you know what we're not going to swing at that pitch because we need to get our manufacturing agenda out there and goes and gives a speech about his five point manufacturing agenda. That's not going to get covered a breakthrough when Donald Trump just reviewed to CDC Director publicly right. So sometimes you have no choice but to respond to Donald Trump to get into that cycle. I do think paid media helps. I think the debate is a huge opportunity to deliver this.

Anything that none of us forever, like shouldn't Biden campaign, be doing ex while we're all the Biden campaign. It's not worth it we're all part of it. We all have agency here and as well. Tweeting, as were sharing on Facebook ever talking to friends and relatives, it is up to us to deliver messages about what Joe Biden would do as President who he is what he stands for and not just talk about how bad Donald Trump is, and I am often the worst defender of this on this punk ass. We do it on twitter. We do it right in its again it's hard to avoid down from this horrible things. We need to call them out. That's just the way it is, but I would try to spend more time all of us sort of getting the word out there about Ology vines plans, which are very popular people, very pop net balance ass, the no one. What and you have to stop saying Trump is bad in politics. I suggest you need to keep doing that, but The balance has to go from almost all negative trump too much closer to fifty fifty, if not

Moreover, by inside like earth wait we need all of us as a group of people who are talking of voters. Over index on the pro binds us, because that is where we are swimming upstream. By stream I mean the facebook over them, when we come back down we'll talk to a notch. Anger. Oh sorry, about all of this about me. Judging to new and infrequent voters in the home stretch. That's a lot of her own research, and so it's a great conversation. I stay tuned, and after the brakes, pots, America, Roger by simply safe. Here's the thing about on security companies most trap, you with high prices, tricky contracts in shitty customer support, just bad, you sit on that phone forever so well, there are a lot of options out there that only one no brainer, and that is simply safe. One of us has had phenomenal experiences with.

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And for our listeners. Forcing Matic is offering this risk free with a hundred percent money back guarantee. That's how much there sure you'll love it. That's forcing matic dotcom size, cricket deceit up to thirty five percent. Your first order and not check her sorrows. He found her a principle of ESA communications in the house of the worst. I've been bypassed and I welcome the POD save America thanks. So much We are obviously hitting the stretch run here we are under fifty days. You have recently done a lot of work about the messages that we should be using down. The stress you tell us about that, yeah for sure so we're were focus squarely is in a couple of spots, but I would lift up most immediately as how we, talk about voting and the election itself right now. Understandably, there is a lot of panic in Maybe not even enough panic,

on all of the nefarious deeds that trump and his ilk and various republic in the term, these general and so on, are implementing in order to keep people from voting, and so it can seem like the right thing to do to raise the alarm. But in fact what we have seen in testing is that has a concerted de mobilizing effect on the folks, I like to call out high potential voters, In other words, if we keep spreading the message, this is the titanic. People are not going to want to buy a ticket is, you know. I was thinking about this after reading your work, which is fascinating no in the Obama twelve campaign, we had a big debate about this right? so much voter suppression laws, but aren't you must put in place since await twelve? We had big debate about? How do we talk about it with this same fear about demobilization mobilization

discover, through our own research, at the time that If we talk about it in the way, particularly to black voters, about these Republicans trying to stop them from expressing their political power, it could turn them. But what was different between conversation and twelve what's happening now is the conversation was about whether you be prevented from voting where they make it harder for you to vote whether we long lines in white. The conversation outjutting is very different, Will your vote count an account? act as even a bigger problem, because the risk- your your vote? Not counting yourself so much greater, because you're not just gonna, be inconvenience rather take time off work with family. Your play Supposing yourself to a virus, is they vote counting conversation part of making this a bigger problem absolutely and basically We have his instinct in its understandable because you know to speak in Britain. People who are listening to this park. They are political animals. They are

politically motivated, they are politically engage, should agree that makes them makes us ready, atypical right the whole American shortly an off here and more or less than the president a year, barely even votes and the notion of kind of going deeper and being more politically engage really right. Yours, us bad judges of what messaging works and doesn't because we necessarily filled her that through our own experience- and we think Bismarck Tommy, this riles me up but act, We. What we see is that when we use threat based messaging around the vote, not counting around on all of the nefarious deeds happening in and everything that you wait out, it evokes a fiber. Freeze response, it evokes fight out of our activists, but it evokes freeze out of most people, especially given everything you said that it is incredibly challenging to be a voter and, in fact, dangerous.

The advice that were giving, which we posted publicly and obviously more than happy to share is that we need to do a few things. Number wine. We need to avail ourselves of Wyatt. President Obama did so beautifully at something we call messaging from inevitability, it's where you make what you're doing a matter not of if but when write it. Yes, we can not know we're, not sure we made my if everything comes together perfectly by the enemy really big, so first of all its mastering from inevitability second of all, its ascribing motivation. So when we talk about the horrible things that Trump is doing, it's really really important to not just list the what, but to list the why to explain the nefarious deeds and what that means in the basque region is, in of saying Tromp is destroying the post office or Trump is

making the election or Trump is stealing the election, all of which make people feel like wine bother. It's not gonna matter. What's the point of even trying What we need to say is true knows that he is losing. So he is trying to axe. He is attempting to why. So we need to actually lived up the fact that he is losing we are winning hopes that by selling chaos and stooping fear, it will stop us from voting at all but we're onto him, and we count on us the actually lean into what we call social proof. Social proof is the middle school theory of messaging, Basically, you say this is what everybody is doing and the reason for that is because human at the most fundamental level were social creatures, and we want to do what we perceive are in group or are social affiliation is doing.

You know- you talk about framing a context of trumpets losing sort of connect to a conversation, you and I had always are our campaign ads on our Youtube serious. If a couple months ago and at the time we're talking about how to frame trumps, authoritarian instincts or behavior and since we had a conversation, believe it or not things much worse. On that front, you know you bet there. We have reports. You know last night from billboard things you know what is based on your research, the best way to push back on trumps messaging on law and order, messaging, authoritarian, messaging, etc. Yeah. So, to me, it's kind of two separate there is the authoritarian messaging and there is the lawnmower or so, if it's ok, I'm gonna take them separately because bleeding yeah so on the question of how we characterize tromp, is actually fund mentally vital that we

not reinforce the image of Trump as a strong man as an authoritarian leader, is an understandable instinct, but it is absolutely wrong. Wrong for a number of reasons number one again has that demobilizing affects most people are not looking for a ticket to the titanic. Most people are not out shopping for new problems, and so when our message to a political people that were attempting to engage because remember if there are already engaged, if they're, already listening of their already tweeting, if they're, already hot bothered they're, not our problem were not hang on persuasion or mobilization with those folks, we have to think through. Who are the folks who are our high potential voters, and when we tell them this is an authoritarian, strong man. Again, it reinforces this sense of why even bother this is a lost cause and most people are not out looking for

lost cause. It's also not persuasive. In fact, What we see is that the most persuasive way of portraying tromp is, as a week, loser pathetic, bumbling, ineffective, corrupt sure, but not an authoritarian, strong man a week Windsor that is in fact much more apt and effective way in also drives dried, more crazy. And you think, that's good driving him crazy. I mean, I think, thirty scratches, and each among highly political people that you seem to me scratched. It's not the primary reason to do it, but when we drive him dots It is when I mean I would say it when he gets off is talking points. He hasn't no talking waters talking point but

it's when other the forces in the Republican Party get off there talking points because its when we sort of hidden nerve with them the supper question of how we address law and order that's a different question. How would you? How would you address it? Yeah tell. The law and order issue is a trap and it's a trap. Here they are holding out bait and sadly, and unfortunately, on strategically Any immorally, I have feelings about this, you, maybe it the time because I can tell it's good we're taking nappy. Basically, instead of having a conversation about who we are, what we stand for, what we're going to deliver them

dangle this shiny object, which is law and order, and we all agree tacitly to stop talking about coded. We agree to stop talking about jobs. We re just stop talking about economic. Well, being we agree to stop talking about having an actual functional plan, make sure families can get and stay well, and we agree. Yes, fine, we're gonna have a conversation about one. So first issue now were on their church. Now we're having their conversation and were not having house second issue, the way that we address law and order almost inevitably any, doesn't need to be this way. I have an alternative and I will supply it. Almost inevitably is going to send our base packing because- Amber the choice for the disaffected base is not between Biden and Tromp. It's between Biden and not voting. You have to give people something to vote for and

and promising damn republican light promised. Damn authoritarian light promising them genuflection at the altar of calling for law and order. What that does is it says to people? You should be thinking about riots. You should be thinking about looting right. So when are candidates were saying or why it is not a protest. Voting is not protesting. What you're doing it calling rioting and looting top of my you're bringing that into people's brains? It's also not persuasive, so the theory that we need to do it because of the White Lady in the diner in Wisconsin that you know pundits across Amerika love to offer us up as evidence or the White Ex Coal Mining West Virginia. Whoever is speaking and brought vowels that were supposed to take his data. One of my favorite things hum

They're not persuaded by it, because what you have actually done. Is you ve wandered onto the opposition's turf and agree to have this debate? So the question is what actually works right, What we ve seen in our testing, this is an example of an actual message that we ve tested that hit at home, with that persuadable middle. That were told, were supposed to be changing and is actually a forthright statement of our values, and it goes like this, the matter what we look like her, where we're fraud, we want our friend,

is to be safe, our voices to be heard and our rights to be respected. So we start by naming a shared value. We don't start with the problem. We claim the moral high ground, but tromp is trying to divide and scare us into silence by sending federal forces and our communities stopping people from protesting in provoking oppression with the election coming up. He hopes to distract us from his corruption and failure to ensure we have the car security and support you need during this pandemic. By joining together black white and brown to demand liberty and justice today into voting record numbers in this election, we can swearing a government of by and for the people. That's what we say: and, like I, like, I had hot Emerson agree with the danger of following Trump down the rabbit hold. This is all the same thing in two thousand and eighteen with the caravan and which candidates decide to buy the premise of his argument, which candidates decided to explain why he was trying to distract you from them why he was being dishonest with you,

You know the thing that I you know. We just did this pole of new and infrequent voters with changes I that we talk about earlier. I guess and other things it I've very. Concerning in it is the number of people. This is a group that is twelve points providing right relative. Funds provide much more provided. Then the the elect overall, and you know prettier point lesson weekly engaged than even the average voter. Yet there guess. Fear here, they site is bright, his writing more so than covered, and like I'd have leaving part of that is perhaps some democratic, certainly amount and media folks buying here following to the trap there but it's also just sort of bisbee the power of the face for power wing media advantage. That is changing that in use like I take it from there. You think that the? How do you get that conversation back to cover the economy where you think it is?

you know you have thoughts on that yeah. So, first of all, even though you didn't ask me, we don't call people infrequent voters down that we want to make the reality that we want. We call I potential voters? Ok, that's good! I should I wish I'd shortly before I wrote a whole piece. This morning. But I like it, I did it. I guess about that, or you just cut out this clip of me admonishing. You would now it now we can now if we can now, as you have said, that we absolutely cannot cut that out. So This will. This will exist for the historical record and First, I will be the last times over Europe Your point is well taken there. So that's just died. Does is me proving that, like I'd, never all finally come in one's labour in its men. Sat there all the time travel let's play acting. So you tell me the sentence and I will respond backed you, meaning

You be this infrequent sorry pipe gentle odor, see. Look, I did it to his heart ass. You infected me, so you you'll be this media person. Are you be theirs high potential, loader and say the thing. I've been reading and seeing a lot about looting and rioting and democrat run cities. Oliver country, I'm worried about coming to our community. What say you I hear you Dan, I talked about, or is all day long since I'm running here for Senate in Minnesota and you know it seems to me that most of us, wherever were from whatever accident, would have her backgrounds and code we want pretty similar things, which is to make it through our day and be able to spend time with our families and know that were healthy and safe, but today We have a handful of politicians who are trying to divide and scare us. They want is pointing them

finger and whoever they come up with new immigrants, black people, mayors, anything they can do to turn us against each other. And turn us against people who are fighting for liberty and justice for all. I think, We all know that, in order to make change in to make a miracle live up to the promise of a place where everything one of us can breathe and be safe. We have to change things and so, if we are pointing orphan in the wrong direction if we're taking the bait and were struggling and fighting amongst ourselves, there are going to continue being able to make off with the spoils. They're gonna continue. Handing kickbacks to their rich from IE is not protecting us from coded and getting away with it and that's why, when I talk to voters what I really see as people, why black brown cities

labourers, we pretty much want the same thing, which is better policies for our families. The ability to make ends meet and someone to actually take charge of this virus and look after all of us and respect their rights. That's great! You have you have my vote. I I so fully support a voice. The next senator of Minnesota, Sorry Tina Smith, said, You ve just me dry and uneven California, where you have had ever yours, everyone's autism, gibbons, you can do from anywhere. That's so last question: before we let you go, we ve been having a big conversation about both on the park. Yes, eraser this pole, but just more broadly democratic party about the balance between negative trump messaging and positive, bide, messaging wheel,

where do you think that where do you see that balance right now? Where do you think it needs to be yeah? So I think maybe it the laughed had written a story of deviant. They would have written a biography of alliance, and I think that talking about tromp is how we got trump, and I just think that I have reams of data not just my own, but others, for example, bull, winningly, David Brabant and draft cow. Thank goodness published a paper recently proving this over a really comprehensive study, proud, Biden Messaging, provided adds? Provide an approaches are much more effective than Anti Trump reason for that is multi phone number one for high potential voters. We actually have to give them something to vote for again remember for them. The contest is not bite and from the contest

is an don't, don't participate and so if you are not giving them a reason to go out and, as you rightly said, potentially risk their lives or at least engage in something, that's really complicated, Annette rendered intentionally complicated in order to keep them from participating right. We ve made it very very hard and we ve made it very very arch specifically for black. Brown people as we all know. So. First of all, you want to give people something to vote, for you have to give them a sense of meaning an agency and a sense that we got this and that your vote actually has a chance of making change when all you're doing is talking about from what you do. Is your re enforcing the sands of how terrible inheritable everything is I mean genuinely? Do you think that there is a black person in America except for You know Canvas Owens baby who needs to hear

another thing about how awful tribe is. Do you think that there are black and brown folks in Erica, we're like he was terrible things for New t, a bit of information. There is nothing left to say about how horrible this barely human is, so First of all, and second of all, for the middle for the folks were sort of on the fence. When we're talking about Trump.

Lending him more airtime. I can't remember if we have this conversation last time. Forgive covert brain me, but you know it's really just a simple as the analogy that when you take your due to the pool of your kid is running, I don't remember pulls they were like public place. Another with me. If you take your kid, the pool and you kid is running, a competent lifeguard is going to young walk because if you young John run at a kid you're going to run either out defines be or because you literally yelled wanted them. We have to tell people what we want. To do you and stop telling people what we don't want them to do. So just put a five point on that. Is that mean by it? We put we had, nor did you in charge of the entire democratic Party, all this evil, ass, giving finance was be the by giving everyone else. Would you right now as to talk about trotwood? You run no purely negative, as would you have some adds that were transplant

despite its plan or trunk, in outcomes during the two out what you think about that yeah, I would say I wouldn't ever ever ever Reverend strained. It would depend on sort of sub demographics and micro targeting in all of these subtler things and obviously the conversation unite been having is broad, strokes and their nuances, and there are differences The differences are geographic and their demographic and so on and so forth, and, of course, that's the case by broadly speaking. What I would do is make the voters make the voters that I'm targeting the protagonist of and what I would do is demonstrate in our adds, an enormous aging and in our approaches all of the ways that Radio Americans are standing with and for each other all of the ways we are pulling through by pulling together and

was Biden and Harris. As a me, is to facilitate that jury as away of propelling us forward. As an easier or sort of patch tread to the beautiful tomorrow that we know that we can have an create together and in that, of course, I would still have trump. Sometimes he would be. The villain stories need to have villains, write you a story. The archetype of a story doesn't make sense without a villain, but I wouldn't leave with the villain. I would we with the heroes and the heroes would be. The voters and Biden Harris would be the mentor on the journey. I am, of course, speaking of sort of archetypal. She rose journey, storytelling images and of the fundamentals of western literature, and then I would

pause. It are victory as a matter not of if but when again availing myself of this notion of messaging from inevitability, because people want to be on the winning team. And our tendency to say either. This is the titanic. Would you like to buy a ticket? Oh, I got a problem for you or what the losing team weaved words in fund raising everything is terrible. We may not win. Everything is horrible, so get money. That's not logic that most people concerned low ensued. The reason why, in the new messaging on how to talk about the election, where again revealing ourselves of all of these cognitive approaches that we know work

our overarching messages summarised as count on us for the double meaning of both. You can rely upon us. We are going to do this thing we are going to come through. You will be part of a larger grouping of people who are all dedicated together to get this thing done and also count on us, because we need you count all votes. That is great, and I thank you so much. This is always so to fascinate our station with you about this good luck. Down the stretch here and will be watching your work very closely. Came to you thanks for everything thanks to a not check soil for joining us today. Everyone have a great weakened and whale taught you next week by everyone. Pod, save America is a crooked media production, the exit producer is Michael Martinez, arson The producer is Jordan Waller. It's me in edited by Andrew Chadwick Kyle segment is our sound engineer? to tell you so mediator. Katy long

roman puppet Dimitrios Quinn, Louis Brain cells Caroline resting Annalisa Gutierrez for production support into our dear, team, Eliza Cone, El Conan freed, and my look him who film and uploading episodes as videos every week.