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Have fun here, we have fun having it on today. Show the Republican Party passes an official resolution stating that the violent insurrection on January Sixth, that left multiple people dead and injured was quote legitimate political discourse MIKE Pence says. Donald Trump is wrong about his ability to overturn the election, and we dive into raging media controversies over Joe Rogan Jeff Sucker in John Love, it's interview with gents Aki, maybe the the greatest controversy of all. You know it may be the greatest conquerors evolving one one thing

it's been a weekend of podcast apologies and I just want to add one, which is, I refer to Mark short as MIKE shorten it led to a pretty stupid joke a number leave it. Ah, I would say that, given that other podcast also apologise for saying the inward dozens of time that they get really that big a deal, but I did want to show that apology before we get started some great NEWS Dan Pfeiffer, one of America's biggest Youtube Sars is back with another season of political experts, react in the newest episode den. Joined by the Lincoln Project, Stuart Stevens, to break down republican, mid term political ads from Canada, like Doktor OZ and the maximum to Mallory staples to watch had to crooked media's Youtube Channel. Also, if you haven't heard pots of mecca and love it or leave it have just announced a ton of live shows this spring. summer, you bet cut back on the road a lot every Thursday. In again, it's fantasy typewriter.

started a hat and as a fun, life shows a really fun. I'm shows cannot wait really my backyard soon enough. You gonna wanna, go to crooked dot com slush events to get your tickets for all this stuff. All this positive, Morocco, lover or leave it, but dynasty typewriter shows all of them. Are let's get to it? I have to admit when I first saw the New York Times headline, G O declares January sixth attack legitimate political does more, I thought there might. I thought there may be somewhat context. Missy or like a headline writer, lotta control, but here's what the republican national committees, formal censure of representatives, Liz, Cheney and Adam Cleansing. Her actually says it says that the two Republicans quote are participating in a Democrat, led persecution of ordinary citizens engaged in legitimate political discourse, and thus quote the Republican National Committee shall immediately cease any and,

I support of them as members of the Republican Party SAM. What was your initial reaction to the story and like why? Why did the currency do this? What do you think they did? why does anyone still doing this centre business? It doesn't do anything. It doesn't, I hereby declare this. I wanted on internet right now censure on earlier. I think so, first reactions. I owe you a course, but second reaction was when you read the peace. What was really engine about the article is the meeting itself for really bipolar. So the time said it first in this meeting this was a gnp went to meet in all this party leaders came in and condemned the attack, they condemned the attack and then Action in France, conduct than bedtime story says over the course of the meeting everything shifted and they went to our planet and then deny in it? And then this secret thing, and over me take away as like right now in the GEO pay. If you put a hunter Republicans in a room, any room doesn't matter how they walked in. We know how they walk out,

there is a small and loud minority in this party that is in charge of the party no matter what- and I am like at no matter what level and I think it really boils down to just the perverse incentives of national politics right now. All these house members all these senators. They don't want to get primaried and that is more important to them than a general, because these Just are predictable and so many cases their most worried about and even further right primary, and if that is the case, then, though, always do this right. So the experimenter Romany extremism disliked spreads like COMECON. It's just that's where they walk in like that, are not that's how they wore the same trajectory they ve taken in the past year since the attack right like the first week when was fresh in everybody's mind, it was a violent insurrection. It was wrong. Everybody was every Fox news host was texting, Don Junior to try to get his dad to stop and then over time they can get on the party line that actually just a small group.

People, even though the Department of Justice estimates that I didn't realize how many to two thousand to two thousand five hundred people went through the carrier. They were in their that that is its. Not let me tell you didn't notice them be sending more, but let it be twenty five hundred black people up in the capital reckon it. No, let it be and we just one small note and what their excusing as legitimate political discourse. While people partner wait, I had no wonder they were taking stuff, they there's be so I just There there on the record there too right I mean I just look so a friend run around me Mcdaniel. She she issued a clean up statement that called the January six investigation, a Democrat, led persecution of ordinary citizens who engage in legitimate political discourse that had nothing to do with violence at the capitol here's. The as you pointed out, SAM many hours of negotiation went into this censure. They talked about a lot they.

Lord, the language, no one thought that maybe this could be construed as endorsed. violence. They really are going to try to get us to believe that they out this. That's not what we meant. Well, I mean what they are trying to do two things at once there. Trying to seem like up palatable party for typical DC discourse, and there are also still trying to Wynkyn Nod to potential primary voters who are insurrectionists sympathisers. That's hard to do yeah I mean like it's just like it. I think. Look: it's not like the question facing them was: should we embrace Donald Trump believed that the election was stolen or not right and we want a winked while the people in the party, the majority of people, the party who believed that it was stolen? This was the f

I called January Sixth an act of domestic terrorism right dozens and dozens of people were injured police officers. They had brain damage, they have all kinds of horrible injuries. Five people died as a result of this, and you can't just say that that that that that was not legitimate political discourse. That clear I just don't get what they said. Anything well, here's my being here. What did this pole plot exact hears? It is that's right. They you start from. They are watching in closing our doing is making them mad It is making the mad that they are doing us that they are participating in this, and those feelings must be I'll valid in some way. They must be validated in some way. They must be explained and they can't be explained for what they are, which is. These are two people showing a kind of modicum of integrity and makes us all exposed as the dirty cops we are, and we duty cops don't like having these kind of less dirty cops rubbing it in our

faces, and so they kind of me to get together account for some rationale for why what what these Republicans are doing on the committee is in just wrong because they don't like the politics of it but wrong for some other reason, so they worked really hard to come up with an explanation, even the wrecked inward version is still a fuckin lie. It's all lie like there are lots of Republicans protesting all across the country there protesting against mass their protesting. It's ok, of things is only one that there's a fuckin committee looking at is the one where several thousand people broke into the capital and took things from Nancy policies. Desk by the way a bunch people got hurt and died, so of course anything they come up with is a fucking. Why? I think he's got a little bit focused to your point. The direction was bad, but we fuckin Haiti's too. I think The conversation was on the, but we hate these two and not enough on the insurrections back house As a national party, like the GEO P. Actually in moments like this whole statement, seems very reactionary. Tromp has taken so much

power away from a national party infrastructure. Anyway, like Does it help him out and less now the national you'll last now than ever before year will look, I think, not Both national parliaments and the National Party can administer people their critics always think they have more power than they do. I think the same is true of the Doha round. Later, not admiral similar with Argentina, Dnc Dnc get exactly what they wanted. Theirs is healthy and have even those convention yet not doing anything. Neither is the r and see it it is the base of the party and by the base the party I mean to reflect the right wing media folks who are leading the rest of the party around, but you're right, love it like they got. They just gets there so pistol. Is China Adam Kinsey? Are they to say something, but also like yet the idea that there that the January this committee is somehow persecuting people who were just peaceful protests

sisters who never entered the capital who are just outside the stop, the still really there not people they will get not dealing with those. Before I went inside the capital, there was a noose out there. There was a confederate flag out. Their lot of them said if they got the principle, Did they would do stuff? Hang my party was lands by it. It could have been a Lynch MOB, like not even exaggerating, but it is with an unsuccessful lessening. Yes, like I walk, we look with amazing. How quickly forget them of it, like, I, I wonder of Rana, remembers the video of her fucking uncle running down the hall to out of the capital, there's video him fucking running and that livid look on Mitt, Romney space sitting in the sitting. In me, the Senate chamber, while one of the insurrection is seven, decide to give some speech defending their indefensible position, the kind of rage in his eyes, like a fee

New people on that side haven't lost, that does that make them great no, but it makes them better than the fucking scumbag. I getting together this meeting where you know who Member of the video Mitt Romney running is Mitt Romney created a shameful that a party that would censure persons of conscience. Apparently, He also said that he exchanged some tax with run over those, though didn't help before when I got three doubts from uncle met what a mode you does he cinder autumn, Oji upside down Smiley Levin over. He descended the funds down reaction, emerging statement of the Republicans who condemned the censure included Louisiana, censurable Cassidy, Maryland Governor Larry Hogan, Chris Christie, LISA, Kuski, assesses and Collins today, tied young couple of them. I didn't see too many how important you think it is to get every elected Republican on record about this. Most people don't know about the story. Yeah right.

I think people are really plug dinner fallen with G Opie at the national level. I say I think those log into the midterms a few months before the mid terms- going to be probably not going back to what happened this week with the statement that I write, what I am so very unusual me to disconnect from the news at all. I was at a wedding ob since Thursday yeah and I would like the few times I just squirreled through twitter to see what was going on. I was like legitimate political discourse. What what's going on- and it really was until yesterday, Doug into an unlike know that this really happen to you I was one of those novel. I am an avid news, consumer yeah, I loved. The question is like we have debated to what extent Democrats should make January six an issue in the mid term and beyond

like how, if at all, should the urgency resolution change the parties. Thinking about this, knowing that you know, as SAM just said, probably a lot of people don't owe the story and people are gonna tune in you know a couple months before November, he yeah here's my eyes. I really have been stuck on the fact that the UK has been trapped in a kind of government shaking scandal over a party from over a year ago, because our part in several parties, because of the come because in part because these are of attention, has gone media, but also concentration on it from people trying to make it a story. One lesson I would take from what's happening right now is, I think, like sometimes We debated on this podcast right like well is this: is this the best thing forget? We obviously think it's the right thing to do to point out the kind of incredibly dangerous, authoritarian tendencies. Republic

party but look when we're at our most mercenary weak basic. Is this the right way to make sure were in a position to win the election? I would say that it is because we have the January six committee. It has stirred up enough noise and news and interest and coverage that it s kind of cause, these kind of knock on effects of of of Trump. Issuing these statements of stories now about document retention of of of Chris Christine and giving these competing speeches of essential resolution coming out of the air and all of a sudden, this story now is kind of its its self perpetuating, at least for a few days, because its republicans talking to each other about this incredibly simple divide inside the Republican Party, which is Should America be a democracy, yes or no. So My lesson is only that it does seem as though concerted Attention from Democrats on this issue has stirred something up that is even bigger than what the committee could have done on its own. I agree, but I

I think that the kind of slow burn of a story that you get from this insurrection panel committee, is not the kind of story that National news media knows how to do well with or that Democrats know how to do well with, like it's a slow trickle of these really damning details about what happened that day and before that altogether make a pretty strong argument, but its not being delivered an one, simple package on a given day and it's like. Will the Democratic Party be able to keep tie in all of these that, together over yeah, no say in October. Look at all this civic, our good it not. But I was just there, I think, tying. All the dots together is a chance. I M and Saint title the dots together mixed metaphor, whatever side, but you get it

I didn't think I guess at failing tangle together is a challenge, but I would say this: obviously, we ve seen in poles- you can even be here in focus groups that have been done. People are not January, six is not top of mine for a lot of voters, and so it's hard to make it a big deal. It's hard to make anything a big deal that happened in the past and the future. I also think it's hard to make a big deal, something that doesn't directly affect people's lives right, like even a conversation about democratic institutions and what their public all this kind of stuff. It's tough to make real to people, I think with different here is an endorsement of violence like endorsement of violence is simple to understand. It also has a direct effect on people's lives. Like do you want a party in control that is endorsing political violence that could come to your town. That could come to you right liked. Is that really what you want? I mean data for progress, pulled force, wing districts and found that voters overwhelmingly does

proved what happened at the capitol obviously, but in no swing district did more than fifteen percent of likely voters approve of the insurrection in all of the districts. At least eighty percent disapproved like it is once I when you ass, I kind of question in Nepal. You're also lead to answered the right answer your last year, although in some of them in the same Paul they'll say things like the election was stolen right or or yeah. Trumps bit ly was like the one that got the most disapproval was obviously violence in Europe. People can say different things about that, but I do think Democrats making the point based on this and they in again you have to keep the keep saying this over and over and over again that this party has now endorsed political violence, and this part, all the into all the mayhem that using James Ex don't just leave it in the pass. It's actually

but what could happen if they return to power or if they don't get their way, and that's a big problem? That's why you want it's hard to do that when Trump is not there, it is hard to do that. Will that's why? But that's got going back to the original question I had ass, like I do think. That's why every single republican elected republican and republican running for office in twenty twenty two should be made to answer that question. They should be maintained their question. A campaign events in Edna Bates wherever in that way using so many I think today, already disavow it not just the you

suspects, but a lot like because they know that that's not good path, it's not a good idea holiday and they want to think. But it's also nothing could politics and unwanted behind them. They don't want to be, and I want to begin with this indefinitely. That's right, one, private or public, into made some headlines about generous ex over the weekend was former vice president might pence. Who said for the first time the Donald Trump is wrong depends had the legal authority to overturn the election of the Republican Party should accept the outcome and move on, though we still would say that Trump lost or stolen reject the big lie. This unsurprisingly enraged trump, who called pence quote an automatic conveyor belt for the old chrome. Mcconnell oath curl outside that I'd okra. So weird, it's just never stops being we're, doesn't work. He stuck with it the first of all, The like triangulated on fascism is amazing, like finding a third there's. A third way. Raising, but also like Trump seamen, really muted, actually reach

play soft. I hadn't noticed that a first just because maybe I was so focused on the conveyor belt for the old crow. I realise that you have. A visual rightly adds imagining a chrome, it's not my personal. It's not. He doesn't once again urged his followers to kill my pants, which had previously been one of his go to. pretty muted, and obviously it's because I come from has a you know some loyalty and it took no he's, really worried that might pencils ay a person out there with a story to tell her yes, Dorothy Replica killed right like they would kill them. He knew that he, I think I just don't understand now. I think you know, there's a story to tell and better worried you saying he he oh, is deep down that it is bad politics, How does he want to run for president I'd like that but yeah like. Is that what he is the ring round that some a lot of the reporting says that he does. I can't him a mean. This was a speech I read. This speech was spread likes me.

one thing and therefore I'm not running for president having to tell truth and is very specific, indirect way. Really you thought that I tell who know interest. I see all the rest of them. Like I don't run dissent is a smart guy. Marco Rubio thinks he's a smart guy. People choosing to avoid touchingness to avoid saying emphatically one where the the other they they want to leave their options open. My pence has done the exact same thing for six years now and is the first time it used to be this emphatic about something so central to trumps view of twenty twenty and twenty twenty four? Why was even making speeches and further than two years ago, and why don't my pants and you and, unlike my colleague, almost got me killed day after I'm out Mean is most whether you statement and then I'll never speak to you about you ever get that's what I've got.

if you're gonna know again go all the way, don't triangulate fashiongo that you're gonna run for president again, I would say if I tried to kill me, they did not goodbye to to you. Jesse in is mighty still thinks. There's like some space to Cairo between with China and Donald Trump, which does not lie. I mean I don't get a politics. Meanwhile, that's right here These products be greatest around the Indiana governors re, so he like jumped onto this. Thank you losing his vice Maybe there are losing at the top of the ticket, and LO and behold him with get four years later summit under the capital funny so Again- bipartisan lawmakers is still working on a bill to reform the electoral counteract in an effort to prevent future attempted coups in over the weekend. A dimensionless Mc Caskey did a joint interview were mentioned, said the bill would quote absolute. He passed. What do we know about what specific changes there looking to make first thing we know is be careful what you believe and Joe Mansion exact for that. But

For starters, the bill would clarify that the vice president has no power to reject the states electors. Well, great. You ever, though baseline step forward here, and the measure would also ensure that state houses cannot appoint electors after election day in an attempt to change the results there, some other stuff and I'm ready times now and I see an end would be a timeline for states to complete challenges, to results of elections, a clear method distorted by the results. Even a format for transporting the electoral college, certifications, Capitol Hill and like stays, directions on how the day of the act Things should go. So I mean all of it seems. Pretty common sense, and I guess it could pass. But when I read it, gather might that's a low, baseline and and

And like how dare anyone up their pet themselves on the back for passenger, you owe me, will I will say whether publicans hoo hoo sound way they may support it. Like marker Rubio were saying something like well. If Kamel Harris's VP, we don't want her to have the power to overturn the election re so the whole. I clarifying the vps role. Thing does seem like the lowest lowest common denominator area that they can hologram if they Just do that. Unlike the thing he mentioned about, ensuring that state legislators say landslide rumours that I can appoint electors after election day. I think that's. Big and it might not passed while those so the things you you just mentioned, sam- that we're from that time story that was in the draft legislative text from Dick Turban and Amy closure.

and Angus King Emberon, like their own separate group in their Lattimer Kuski Mansion republican group. Now it does say that those groups have started talking. I think if that is the clear Bashar king that bill, if all that stuff gets into the the overall bill and that passes. I think that's look it's not as it's not nearly as good as voting rights passing, but it is that's going to do a lot to protect against the next, it really is the fact that we have to say that protect what we do, but we already redundant or through the wood, and we really need to do as we did it and like we have Democrats four year combined vote suppression with overturning of elections and when I think, was really harmful. We completely lost on the ability to pass something on voting rights. That is not happening now, but we have this one chance to Possum

pass something too like shore up against potential against a future trump run like, of course, we should take it. It does nothing to hurt us. It can only help clarify me what what what mentioned said is right. You know Trump issued a statement today saying well if they need to pass something to change the rules. It means that my statement was correct. like if you're changing the rules to stop my fence from overturn the election sure sounds like you could, which is why they're talking about in terms of clarifying? What have you all of this, though in the end, is playing in like very kind of like first order, constitutional questions which will ultimately land before a supreme court regardless? None of this, Ultimately, he will stop republicans from breaking the rules pertain the constitution says whatever they want to put whoever they want and powers of the most important protection is winning some fucking alike.

but barring that it would be great to have some kind of love a break from what happened in twenty twenty some kind of a procedure or set of rules that tells Republicans they don't have the power to overturn the election if they so choose, because I've been part of the reason. I think it's possible that it's going to pass is a lot of these Republicans, don't want to think they have. Our they would like to not feel the pressure from the based overturn these elections are whenever they can do do it. It's the commonest, stay home bill, but also of their day no gap offer you look, I think any bill that's worth passing has to do something about the real danger, which is that the state legislatures, mostly these republican state legislatures, decided just appointments. Light of electors like if it can handle that it's definitely worth passing, if aimed at handle that if it doesn't have about it, it's just like image: This is the calm of their homes. Just the cobbler stay home bill. Come no! Thank you. Ok! When we come back, we'll talk about the various raging media, controversies

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a hundred million dollars for the exclusive rights to host the show on its platform that we want a veto lessening man. That's an inside joke. A few weeks ago, two hundred and six health professional, signed a letter asking Spotify to moderate misinformation on its platform, specifically related to Rogan stance. Uncovered vaccines, he's discouraged, young people from getting vaccinated incorrectly, claim that vaccines are gene therapy and hosted hard core anti actors who spread so many lies. They ve been kicked off twitter spot. If I said it would include a quote content advisory on Romans, episodes about covered in Rogan said he would try harder to interview guests with different opinions, then, over the weekend spot. If I confirm that it has moved about seventy episodes of the european experience, not because of covered misinformation, but because the singer, India Array shared a super cut of all the times. Rogan has used the inward on his show, Rogan, apologized and spot. If I said that it would invest. A hundred million

dollars towards music and audio from historically marginalized groups- and I won't believe that I just want believe justice out what a classic corporate thing, though c o I'll come find me height right, though their ceo also said quote. I do not believe that silencing Joe is the answer. Cancelling voices as a slippery slope mean I'll artists, Neil Young and Johnny Mitchell- have pulled their music from Spotify, while POT Castro's Bernay, Brown and Roxanne gay have stop putting their shows on the platform. What a mess, let's start with butterfly, they claim to be just as a platform, not a publisher, with editorial control. What's their responsibility here, love it will look using also by one thing they have said another jamie- does that Joe Rogan decided to take down the episodes very, very, very vulnerable they're, not in charge of what's on Andrew Arrogance, feed their looks, modify paid, Rogan a hundred million dollars to silence him on anvil

silence him on Google to silence him in every single place they could, except for one hour, so there We just one what is rooted, one left for them to do. They get the final value of their hundred million, but all that as I like, I dont this ideal. If I were not a publisher everybody wants, have a party, nobody wants to clean up you aids somebody a lot of money to make content for you. They are doing it. I think The reason that little bit fact is they can claim like owing we're, not gonna pay, and that we had no idea, he was say me inward all, the time, because these were just living in his feed that they have been that they were fully avail. to everybody for years. The other thing I will say to defend European is it's a different time you in look two thousand and fourteen he was just a young man and his mid forty people didn't know, then our ozone has changed family. Then I think my first thought was indeed very good to hear from her hopes you do well.

Love that out on the early death. Secondly, I think that, like a lot of his argument, we tried to have before then we just didn't have it. For years ago, there was a whole is Facebook, a publisher or a platform conversation, and eventually we just moved on, and Facebook is still crazy and Facebook is still full of conspiracy theory, and I think that, like if Spotify had any business sense about all of this, they would understand that the lifecycle of internet outrage is extremely short and if you just shut up, will move on something else, started talking, then they began to pull episodes down their keeping. This story alive, they're, keeping the story alive, and I dont know why they're doing that I also feel like there's a larger conversation to have besides it's. But if I have these things up or not, don't expect goodness from corporations a corporations and unless the government makes them They won't be better period right. The larger conversation is what is like Joe Rogan- have this big of a kind.

In this many listeners for that shall yet is not a good show. It's not scientifically and form is not even really factual. And the larger issue here, is that, like so many Americans, increasingly, don't trust actual news outlets, they dont trust NASH news outlets and they don't think, though, that we are one of em are being truthful with them. The latest numbers from P research Centre show that nation wide only fifty eight percent of U S, adults, trust, National news, media and when you just go Republicans it's like thirty, five or thirty percent trust, and so in that Context. Of course, I think those even higher than the ones probably put bail about it even worse at its it's really bad but like in that context. Of course, Joe Rogan succeeds, and so we can have a conversation about. You know what

Company Spotify is but there's a larger information conversation to have about who Americans dressed and who they down and who fills a gap and I think, instead of national news organizations like mine and others having gone about how we build trust. We gotta talk about the site, I've just Zocor. You know which we are going to get there and so like I'm, not mad at Spotify, because I would have been if it may be met a company. It's a company, it's a company. Yet me look. I think that Spotify is bullshit here right that, like they look, the reason there they're trying to get rid of this is that they are both a platform, Anna publisher rights or the way. That's what if I works as there are some progress there, just

Spotify, because it's like a platform ARPA gas is one of them. Your PA got as one of the great and then Spotify goes out and picks and chooses which podcast they want to make exclusive bids for and pay a lot of money to get him. That's what they did with your Rogan. Like he's alive, they decided to make sure he couldn't be heard on any other platform, but airs that's not the case with a lot of most mosebach ass right, so they, of course they have responsibility for this right. But beyond that, I think the question you re SAM is the right one, which is like what what should be done about Joe Rogan and specifically, what should be done about the misinformation and decent for Asian that is coming from the Jaw Rogan pot gas, because a few, if spot, if I picture Rogan off tomorrow, european, would go on any number of also arms that has for the iceberg. Have you seen you two jet exec rumble inversion of Youtube? That's that's now aligned with Trump offered Rogan a hundred ML

dollars just today to come on to their platform right. He continued legal inflict, select the misinformation. Different disinformation does not stop thinking if Spotify kicks your Rogan off the platform, which is why I should think that like when, when when you know when it was just that with this information. That was the story. Rogan said. Oh, I want to have different voices, differing voices on the disagreement. I got an answer for the robot I has I. I actually think that that's the best look is that a sure fire way that can work? I have no fucking idea, but we have to do something to expose some of the people who are listening to that podcast to competing forms of information among pushed back on, because I think that, like it's really easy for someone like Joe Rogan to do the whole,

I didn't know I'm just a dumb comedian. I don't for your interview. I don't fact check. I do by just talk, and he said of saying I'll- do a better job about fact: checking and pre interviewing and booking and being thoughtful about this conversation or maybe even cutting out the bad parts and post before you post it. Instead of saying any of those things. He says what others have some other voices that is Lazy, oh, I created a solely by accredited Rousseau, disrespectful merciless to people who are actually trying to credibly inform the public, but he's not only be the now, but when you have a platform that big you have. Some of that they would like- and I thank them like. Only a certain kind of man can get away with that foolishness. Yaquita show together together, Appetito together we're in production. We're fact checking we're editing script before it runs you're gonna, listen to two or three times before we put it up and like you do that, because, like You know that when people are listening to you, you have responsibility.

Doesn't matter of Joe Rogan says he's a comedian or this or that at that point, when you get that much money and how that many people just do better, oh so I got an idea for a job about this, but they just burned me, but I agree that a hundred percent, but, like the jury, in his lazy, irresponsible asshole. Of course he is. And he's got eleven million. Yes ass. I have encountered a lot of people who come to us. Tat was in a positive Mercosur, Natasha Rogan. Sometimes I sometimes, I believe what you guys are. Sometimes he has other point. Sometimes I listen a bench appear. I hate Donald Trump. I hate the Republican Party, the Democrats, either there is a group of people at this, but I do think we have to contest and that we have to try to persuade fucked. Your rugged forget about Georgia thought about him. It's out about Spotify rate. It is about who? Who is that MRS

nation and disinformation reaching and how do we fight? That is the answer. Just you know throwing good information on top of batting. For me, I did not necessarily right, but we have to figure out like we are in a fight to persuade people dont know that we can count on your Rogan in response to persuade me when my basement for people better. I thought you were at what we are fighting to persuade people guides nano. Look for good, L Europe is not producing a noose. You know you point out these. These studies, its EU economic people, don't trust the news that actually true the vast majority of people by definition of you, have seventy percent of people saying they mistrust mainstream news. A lot of people are distressing, something they are not consuming. Are these are people answer a question about us about content, they are not imbibing right. The biggest divine this country is not between people who, in his really between people who are engaged in following and paying attention to the news and the tens of millions of people, the Madrid.

already of the country who are not Joe Rogan has a big audience of people that are probably more in that category, but I'm put by end. Might so all I'm getting all I'm saying is we are What are you disagree? I agree completely but like what you're saying is I want Joe Rogan to be held to the standards of the new. Now I wonder, do a little bit that right, of course, and I also want the news to do a better job of appealing to more people. How do you know? How do you think they? I don't know, but I know that for a long time, especially during the pandemic, it became hard to listen to or watch or reed, most mainstream national news, because the Spirit behind every headline in every story was Ike. Aren't you panic? Aren't you weren't you gonna die. This is about. This is that this is bad and their studies about the tone and tenor of national news coverage. Most of it at this point is anxiety induce of negative ten, so that I think needs to be addressed. Are we?

making a product that is informative and not depressing. Are we making a product that is informative? That can like at least start to stand a little bit head to head with, like all of the entertainment, indecent formation swill that exist, I mean you touch on something which is a lot of reporters will say. Well the reason that there's distressing media is for purely partisan reasons, oh, you know Republicans dont trust media because they think it's liberal and green of Democrats will have complaints about media because they think it you know not tough enough on republic and three, and I think you know there's the protein needs more study on this, but I think the point you just made, which is that so of the media is bringing you down it feeds you end, society it may and its treating politics like a game in sport and its making everything's afraid of it that that that gets to the distrust. The lot of global feel as well.

And people like Jerome under saying I'm not gonna, make you nervous Mossad make you nervous. I trust me, and I don't have all the answers in this guy came on my show and he saint crazy shit. Maybe he's wrong. Maybe he's right. Who knows this is not a lot of what Rogan is doing on. The show is in also that new, like yes, we too there's that we are. We are now discussing the tonnes of races in that's, been on that we're talking about the misinformation I mention ah, but there has always been an audience for a certain kind of like white male bring masculine broke conversation around a table in which some days it somebody like thou, Chee some day it's a famous comedian, some days, it's a UFO expert, there's been like Howard Stern. Did that there's lots of? those that have done that, and I I do wish than the conversation like? How do we get more people to pay attention to the news. Fine, the is millions and millions of guys out there that find that kind of conversation. Appealing and like the answer,

Did you telling them on mass like you're wrong to like what your liking? Like? It's true look. I think what to Romans do his rose, but, like I really am much more interested in like how do we peel some of those people off like how do we make something that reaches them? That cut touches, that kind of community that, like conversation without having to be infested with a kind of toxic qualities that that that that we see in sort of the roman universe or even some other toxic qualities see and mainstream near sure here. If there is no way to make national news appeal to more people and oppress them less. I think we should do that. I think there are studies, after studies about the way that all major nutrients cover the pandemic. It was unnecessarily negative that clear, there's a recent episode of the Friggin Ahmed spot gas that spent a whole our talkin about wise. U S, media so negative right now, and these are real. Questions have to be ass because, as long as the news feels like

the war and its making. You sad do you. People are gonna, listen to it and I think more people need to listen to the news and not the Europa. I do I do think to part of this. Some of this comes down to like what it means to respect speech right, and I think There is a kind of argument from their side that, like we respect the power of speech and therefore we don't want to see any hindrances must say what every woman. Everyone want no consequences for saying something: graces wanted they pay. No consequences are spreading this information, because the most important thing is individuals having the our whenever that power means to them to spread and what would be using a bad ideas have incredible power right. You have incredible want to believe that comes with your ability to spread those bad ideas in in far reaching ways, if you is a big difference between telling somebody like theirs, I am, I just sometimes imagined Joe Rogan having one of these antique anti cover,

these are anti vaccine, guess Anders imagine going from person to person to show that information like handing it out like a pamphlet like have you heard like it's killing teenagers? Have you heard I love of natural immunity is stronger. Etc, etc? And you imagine like telling this to people telling eleven million people something completely false individually. Then gets out just how hard it, how bad it is to do it on that lawyers who think that the controversies over these stories play into the polarization. So like a pretty just preparing for this past, I was like. I want to find out exactly what the cove and misinformation was in December. The Joe Rogan was spreading and am Google The fact that an ever Joe Rogan Spotify, all you get his stories about the controversy and, unlike it, took me a why. To find out actual than when he had gone, he said, was because of them like? So what is that? What is that actually doing for that

of making sure more people trust the vaccines our goal, I feel the same way about this whole conversation that I'm being pulled into over what I think about Joe Rogue Insane inward die. Ask me stop Let's? Not the larger issue is, never in the history of media. Has anybody other than a white guy like Joe roving got a deal? Is bigger, show Rogan right, do you know, and so the inward is secondary to read and I'm so tired of these other comedian. Circling the wagons acting like Joe Rogue Insane. The inward is like the last frontier free speech. What we gotta, let comedians tell hard true Steinhart, you that's a low hanging fruit or that's another thing to is that it also gets again. The controversy gets distilled too well. He said the inward did, he say cause he was talking about other people saying what was the context. He also he's my comments about how black and white people have different genetics. He had a guest on

claimed by people have a gene that makes them predisposed to violence like it went beyond him this all, I don't know I'm gonna work somewhere else said also at this point, if you Tom, that any white person said the inward and be like I bet they doing on around I'm not I just some sites like I don't have any space was surprise for that anymore. I don't have misplaced were surprised for it. It's also, like you know, horrible things with Jordan Petersen about Trans people and how they represent the the harbinger of the end of civilization. He said that the inward doesn't the time its it. There is something so like you did not surprising to me that these things are kind of. offences that gets you is this. Ok, you know like it. If it was, many times. Joe Rogan talked about cakes, trolling the media right like a very different conversation. Other point wonder make on the other the misinformation side of it, I mean I also understood

and given how bad the coverage has been the pool of finding some some expert, some guru, some some person I'm sure, but a follow. Who can break it all down, because I mean, like you, know you and I think at the height of the pandemic became as closely This is why, for being a whole life like- and I remember I remember vividly telling I said this- run it almost verbatim- who I was like ice, he like said some sent some some some story. about some new information, relearning at believe about delta, and he was like look at this. It looks like it's more dangerous in this way than we thought and I was like you can't fucking trust that that is missing. For me, he's like its Reuters and I, like I'm telling you you can't do anything. You got a real fucking studies, because I was at that, point, so I felt so. Like manhandled and misled by even the most anodyne and basic and straightforward. covered of covert. I have a child who can't get vaccinated and I pay more attention to cover

then, almost anything and end in red from experts who are like would never be under a zero rate in the amount of concern Ding information over the last summer months. Has it will drive you crazy and eat. I followed the stuff in the headline. The experts are one thing: the headlines like milk more children are dying. Should you be scared and not leave the house? You know it's. Just that kind of time was still hurt over found. She for money not where amassed insane. You better get my real, quick right. still reeling over there, and this is a person who is good. Faith tried to do his bad yet in an export fraga, and so like your right love it when people here some sherpa on podcast that convinced, as they know it all and there like. While I might as well be that person be at all the other people leading the astray as well. Lack of trust in institutions is at the core. of the problem and irreverent allow Joe Rodya designing around, and let me tell you I was an undergrad

when are the number one song for twelve weeks was Conway S. Gold digger are the way forward. In word, it's not new to me as surprising to me and it just like distraction every year. There is everything: Then a few miles was like that's it. I'm not reading anything else except doktor she's, just Twitter, that's it! I'm done just Doktor John me. That's the only leave me and him in conversation and then that worry. I would treat some stuff intervenes Yelena him about something and, like all I'm sorry, Mr Dean of Public Health at Brown, I'm still stuck on Joe Rogan, said the in the skies, Let's just get come on, but on that point, though, our skill, but I do they also is once the first round of this is probably is Can it be a controversy came up months and months and months and months ago, put three in turns Are you listening to what the fuck are you write? You pay those internal enough from a guy, yes, but a very serious vat on what I'm worried about are not worried about just wondering about, like apps,

in this entire conversation is advertisers underlines by cast usually when the stuff, whereas up in tv or cable news, there's a push for the advertisers to pull ads from Tucker Karlsson, whoever innovation? some do from what I understand. No advertisers have pulled their ads from Rogan Show and none of them even really spoken about it. What's up with that, I dont know. So- and I don't know this because I don't listen to podcast, but is part of the exclusive deal with spotify- that you don't have to listen to ads this, but if it's just so be regulated or nine out of here really is so people will pay for Bob. I too have Joe Rogan Reed and when you buy a spot a find your Rogan at baggage. They also, I think, make you buy and other spot. If I just It is interesting how to say: look there are high cast where you'll hear the inward zero times in their pockets We hear the inward from one to a million times, and I think you just think about which ones you want to put the ads and

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but I dont know this king. This lie just like yours. Relationship came too late as a result of the network's investigation into former anger, Chris Cuomo, who was fired after using his sources to help his brother than Governor Andrew Cuomo, respond to allegations of sexual miss talk about a butterfly affair, which I want to point out started because they were worried. Ronan Pharaoh might publish a story about Andrew Coma. So a call, from Ronan about a potential story led Chris to try to track down who was who else might be,

Hocking? Anyone adds Verona now to save lives all the way, I'm you think I'm using road and not have enough. I just think it amazing that he just sitting on the couch playing video games and just cancelling people what to do right. It's not only that was cancelled, I know and upon puck, oh he's gonna be wholly park. Needs. Good luck, he's very fine. I don't know if I can give back that's what we find. I don't know I've seen ends you know anchors are employees will be they spent the day following suckers departure, offering impassioned tribute to their former boss. Here's equipped, inside CNN. This was a week like no other The sudden removal of CNN Box job Sucker has rattled this news outlets to its core. This is the ugliest shake up at CNN since the day is ten Turner was still walk in the halls. Zocor was in large one minute and he was gone the next. So why has been a really tough day today a few days for us here at sea in an all week. Really I didn't want to talk about it until tonight.

so the truth is that we're all heartbroken because we lost our leader here, ass the man who was the backbone the glue and the spirit of this company them HU, I personally credit with changing my life, a man who believed in me when nobody else did so. Thank you just sucker for every. You did for everyone at this network and what for what you did put through the entire country for the entire country, SAM everything, You were just say about that: a voice in tone of media that cause people to distress. It was like turning on plan that would like encapsulated in those clips, not since Bernard Shaw was under a task in Baghdad. Also, We tell you something that happens in legacy. Newsrooms, all the time c, o turn over it. and though, what there's just there's a lot

pack here, and I will then did putting trumps empty podium on CNN till trunk shut up. You take that away from look. Ok, there's the whole thing about like you know? Should he have been fired because of a consensual right, Arundel there last year, because the two of them? were in charge of a lot and if in she was working under him, if there's any, even sense that their relationship meant that her department, I we more or others just get mode it or not, that was not fair and I'm surprised she still gets to stay yeah. I may look I again, I don't know all like any other for this

rumours that there's other shoe there's another. She might drop. What are the Erasmus? He doesn't know no doubt of that life. She was also former communications director to Andrew Cuomo, somewhere they involved in helping with the quest of two I dont know again like we do not discuss it and also like worthy. discovery Warner media titans trying to push him out and they use this as an excuse was at Christmas. But so all of this whatever Father money Koumongoe that what wherever this is all like sort of internal stuff. That, I actually think is a big. You no story in the national interest, but I m like that. This scene employees right? Like him? Look, you love your boss. Your boss leaves I get it, but serve the public, the public, just

I don't know over this- is a law, my bomber on any surgeons in your magazine, repeats that was just like hasty in everyone carpet up and was the headline of. Let's get it sort of an eye for an eye. I think stepping back from this think, there's a kind of navel gazing young. They got in their work in the neighborhood in them in that in the mainstream media. That is sometimes on its Mugen Sanctum onerous. That's a nice interest! touch with what people are actually cannot. I was worried about trying to get the kids back in school. They want to get there on kids vaccinated there were about inflation for non? Can I go out? I'm lying about come on now and in the leg is going up, there will never be grown whenever we broke, What are we are behind it? Some it's just Jeff Soccer, it's it's! Yet it is about the perspective that what are recovering today, also also in Parker Malloy, wrote a piece about this in her excellent,

His letter about just reminding everyone about some suckers quotes in Jonathan Mark TWAIN, seventeen profile of him in for the New York Times magazine in which he said soccer, said the idea that politics is sport is undeniable, and we understand that and approached it. That way. Let me tell you that, as a huge fucking reason, Americans have record low trust in the Duma, because parliament visitors were and then he said, a sucker sees it. His pro trump paneless on CNN are not just spokes people for a world view they are quote characters in a dry, otherwise that carriers in a drama characters in a drama that that would Young Einstein Anja Rogan at that point, What come on now and I just like whatever you're going to get at least some of these people work which have sucker they liked them at those girls whatever, but like that view of what news should be where he was like a guy that helped

make trump in the first place and then turned on amount, because that was a more interesting story. But you know it's really frustrating. I know a lot of CNN journalist when I covered twenty six and I was on the road and the same buses in the same gals would, with CNN journalist who The ground are literally trying to do. The lords were yes and the bulk of the newsroom of these institutions not just see it in the and for the right reasons they believe in it there not served by that approach to journalism it's not it's just like out another needs to be a big ol comedies, as meeting does like what are we doing if this is what happened in what are we doing? I do think there is a difference, even with the anchors and folks on air there's a difference in the journalism that you see from Jake, Tapir and Dan Abash ends Caitlin column

and people like that and then, like you, know, the monologues that you get used to get from Chris Cuomo or Don Lemon and whither pass offshore, and they were of has underlined how I know it's. Just it's. A little people can tell it's a little? My yes, like it's a little bit dumb its newsroom me and I say that a sum of first hand- experience the creation of the newsroom, you know look, I did then there The kind of like the newsroom made cable news seem more serious and then a bunch of people watch than the newsroom enough, playing out their own version of everyone's doing good night. Good luck, every single fuck, a night like hell. Oh it's unbelievable. It how long until Jeff, suckers new, media start up partners with Iraq. Would I didn't know until I read Parkers Newsletter, the Jeff Jessica

was instrumental in the rise after your wrote, Yasser Arafat to fear factor in the apprentice come on. It's all at all, connects architects. Finally, a media scandal that has very close to home a few weeks ago in this very pot. Ass. Our own John, asked former Obama in current warehouse press Secretary General Saki, but how she handles annoyingly, dumb questions from Fox NEWS corresponded Peter, do see, including a recent attempt to make Biden seem like he doesn't care about crime. here's how Jen answered you know. I am not here to work for Peter, do see or fox on, but I will say that in a few look at how its per trade and how my answers are for trade Even when I say no, we don't think crime is good and here's all the things we ve done, including the thing that makes, I think that's makes republic

crazy just anecdotally by the heat hate tweets I get on twitter when I say this is that they voted against funding for local cops programmes, because the american rescue plan, also, that Biden- has supported three hundred billion dollars, more n, a funding and, at the same time he also things we need to place her French, it's like they don't want to do that, but every time we say that it makes them crazy. You know, I think it's me. two, if you look at Fox on a daily basis to me, do you remember the four boxes that you have that we had another TVS written into my my tv right now, Sir now, just to give you a sense of CNN Panic, as many as eighty five hundred years troops on heightened alert or pay true salmon, Emerson B C. We see is doing their own thing about the market and then I'm Fox is Janine Piero talking about Sawston. Prime consequence, that? What is that? Even me? Right? So there's an alternate unit:

on some coverage. What scary about it is a lot of people watch that and take they but the president isn't doing anything to address people's safety in New York, and that can be further from the truth. Birthplace- and here is just a small too. If the word Fox did that answer over the last week, Jen Saki laughed about quotes, John Crime policies and said those are in an alternate universe, while Jen, we're not an alternate universe. You are JANET you so locked up in your ivory tower that you have no, idea. What Americans really care about? What we are concerned about. That's just Saki position. You have to be delusional too. Faint crime was a problem in this country. Now you see bourbon Patty, dismissing crime, because well she hates the messenger to love. It would have to say for yourself where navel gazing, decided spilling hand with like under just

had no idea that this interview had blown up so much because I'm in my own information bubble fare well all of its leading on Tucker IRAN or on the five amazing you made the five May, the five. It's just amazing, That Jens whole point in the answer, but goes you start by, talking about how crime is a real issue like nothing, they beta they didn't take her out of context, they made her make the opposite point of what she was trying to make. You know it. its peace is something I ties all these conversations together, which is all across our media. There are crafty, innovative people trying to find ways to make money. Taking advantage of the mistrust people and very very few people me. King money by trying to rebuild that trust lots of people talking about the trust issues now a lot of money in it right now, but there is a lot of people trying to figure out ways to kind of like how can we exploit them

that they assume that the Democrats or soft on crime. How can we explain the fact that are never going to listen to the actual episode, so we can just take this out how great a split the fact that they don't trust, CNN or don't trust in your times when we talk about covert, had we take advantage of this and if I may be, if your gender, the waiter, like how do you handle shit like this? Where we? What do you do you? You go fact check how many of you know what the Washington Post facts acted great, how many people's other backtrack yeah just it's what they do remember. There was a documentary on Fox years ago, and they talked about how, for years at every morning, meeting there was like the Jesse Jackson portion of them they meet in. What are we gonna him today? We gotta beat up, and yes, you did. What are we doing like? This is like just what what Fox NEWS does they gonna find something to to whip here, and this is also an example of just like that that the playing field here is not level and are not just talking about the playing field between

conservative media and progressive media, its conservative media versus progressive media and may, remediation, not that IRAN has its for profit, media versus nonprofit the media. I know I'm buying well, unlike their exactly a switch of your nonprofit media, like you to have the resources to fight that yeah and and on our side we have a lot of our liberal Milly there's an billion airs who will donate money talking of causes, except for you know, actually kind of creative, progressive media infrastructure, while because they're they're they're cosmopolitan moderates right, they just they find Trump, they find it distasteful. Ah, there They are pro gay, their pro women's rights. But when push comes to shove, that's not where their partisan here yet, I would say about this too, which is, I think, a lot of times Democrats get into these intra democratic arguments. Because Democrats, ah you know you, you argue with people who argue back in good thing, attentive, pick your fights when people are willing to

come back at you and there is. There have been multiple new cycles about who is responsible for our messaging problem, who's responsible for our losses in this election. Is it the progressive is. The moderate is with Terry Mccall determine I've lose because he was acquitted night or was it the schools or what would I there is nothing wrong with Virgin Saki sat on the show There is nothing even remotely displaced full about it, nothing, What's she ever should make a gas? We may get a stake. There was not interminable kickboxing and yet and yet very day, and yet for a day it was exploited to drive home. The message that Democrats are soft on crime and Democrats want to abolish the police. Cars is up. The cooperation that foxes political operation and the problem is the problem. It's not what some Rand activists says about crime, it's not would generate not Jen Saki, not exercising messages discipline. She was using

We disapprove it's not the distance of the disputes within the Democratic Party on policy which gets nowhere near what happens on Fox. There is a giant corporate backed Jeanne, designed to make Democrats look evil, feckless and stupid, and we do not have the equipment on our side. Have the media says Washington is fucked. The other half says, across her factor, and we wonder why we can't win elections. If the problem is the problem, they don't. We will also they're all shameless there right. So, if you're running very well tune political machine, political operation, and you are shameless and you don't mind, just driving home the same message every day, but that's how people one campaigns forever. Fox news has been running a key. Pain ever since they have been around about and that's how they do it right there. It's not like magic all. We have to be a shameless and repeat the same message: every day they have their morning meeting and then that you marched down into the mausoleum, and you get your orders from,

drilled fuckin head and that that you think heads there I think, is calling the shots. The only thing that I can take away from this whole conversation is that the way to fight back against all of this is to go. Dream, India, the army, but I repeat, on Spotify less than a week is only one year of the wet higher got ready, oriented we love armed and- and I also this is not the answer new video, wasn't aware unresolved, wasn't here a moment of poignancy when she says she was surprised by the attention she had gotten for sharing Information was like how dare we as it make her feel that way, India deserves nothing but flowers, nothing but streams. Bank. You, India and thank you SAM Sanders for joining us today to be a wonderful conversation. Come back any time. Thank you, support, you're, a nonprofit newsroom of using listeners, yet an hour Peter of Progressive sustainable meeting, Music play us define Wednesday. Three

Hardly of America is a crooked media production. The exact producer is Michael Martinez. Our senior produced Is anti gardener? Bernstein are produced is having used and Olivia Martinez is our associate producer, its mixed and edited by enriching Kyle said one is our sounded junior, The tiniest terminator Sandy Gerard Housekeeper, Madison an injustice. How for production support into our digital team, Eliza Cone, Phoebe Bradford, my look him in a million Monday are episodes, are uploaded. Is videos at youtube dot com such crooked meeting here this is direct. I'm an activist educated hope of crooked media's parts. If the people, alongside the most incredible, goes in the game, Pie Henderson Milestones in the about each week, we Overlook stories on recent justice NEWS using you

didn't hear the mainframe, but impact real people's lives every single day to baffle group conversation interviews, so I guess you'll learn not only with for taking action on the house to take action effectively so lifeline together. Take action together and build a better world to get new episode, the pie, The people are released every Tuesday wherever you listened to your pockets,. I am John favour up, I'm John love. It and I'm sorry be torn and we're excited to announce it. Pod save America is backs boosted and headed back on the road join us join us join us and some special gas. Spring and summer for the pods eight America Torres. We headed on the road for another round of no bullshit conversations about politics to present the impending threats to our democracy, but it also be fun,

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