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like simply safe. Welcome the pod save america I'm drunk ever I'm interim university of pennsylvania, president John of it as a government authorities today show congresses last. we have the year could be its biggest yet. The president of ukraine, resigns after disastrous testimony on campus anti semitism, a woman fleas texas. After the states, abortion ban puts her life in jeopardy and later united autoworkers president John Fain sits down with tommy to discuss his union's historic winds and what comes next

but first donald trump has somehow expanded his lead in the iowa caucuses, which are now just five weeks away. Latest moines register poll has him at fifty one percent up from forty three percent in october. Ron De Santis is next at nineteen percent up slightly from sixteen percent in october, Nikki haley support is unchanged at sixteen percent. Vivek ramaswamy five. Chris Christie for- and I learned from this pull that asia Hutchinson is still in the race and pulling at one percent, bow shocking to me to a ada hutchinson whose, given him money taking him whose begging him, maybe one one responded who knows So this is the largest recorded led this close to a competitive republican caucus ever paw. First, as seventy percent of trump supporters say, their minds are made up. I see anything in this paul that the dissenters or hayley campaigns might find even mildly hopeful committed

I tried- I can I can say no- but before even get to that the door nation, so trump leads every age group he these with republicans and independence. He leads with people with a college degree and people without he leads across every income bracket. He led them angelic goals. He led to several people, suburban people, city people. He leads every group, even the group where he does. The worst college educated he's beating Hayley understand, is in those groups and non republicans. His is doing the worse, but he's he's still leading among like independence, ass a my independence, it that's genuine measures. You have also done that yeah, but even independent relic sounds, like republicans, want donald trump. There is not a sliver of good news in this Paul for anyone not named trump. He moved plus eight from october. There he's the highest percentage of people who see their first choice, second choice or actively

hearing and so is the biggest sort of universal support you have you wanted to find one thing in this Paul. You could say: okay, if you look at every one, that would make two santas first choice or second choice, where we consider him he's doing better. There then hayley right, but then you realize actually that's a place where he's gone down since the last pull that, like at least at least he is sort of his lost people in even in that big. Why group to trump since october, forty nine percent of carcass go recited made up their minds, but seventy percent of tat Supporters say they made up their minds yet it s like debility numbers against by an improved I mean it's just a disaster yeah I mean, I think, what it shows is the people dropped out, even though they have much support that support largely went to donald trump. Maybe a little bit went around santas. I think Nicky Hayley his problem,

lee maxed out on the anti trump vote, at least in maya new Hampshire. This probably a bigger antitrust vote among republicans, but it goes oh- how she doesn't have a ton of room to grow and in ordains made this point. But if not tromp, then dissenters is still the only can it. You can at least have some support from people who really really like trump. I think the number that says it all is you mentioned the electability the way they asked the question. Seventy three percent of republican caucus goers said they think trump can win an election against Biden despite his legal challenges. Seventy three percent, so there goes the electability grant. Unlike honestly, even if the other candidates tried to proof those voters wrong, I mean it's not easy to do so. When pole, after pole, after Paul now shows done

trump leading Joe Biden, both in the general election, that was a wall street journal pulled that just came out over the weekend in states, there are seen impulse of michigan where a trampoline by ten on Joe Biden, georgia, where by five. So you know we're not going to have another made over whether the poles are to be believed this far from election. But if you're, a republican, cock, a scholar- and you really tromp ends it had been concerned at one point about electability. Why would you be concerned about electability at this point? Yet one thing that jumped out at me, too is, I think, look we talk a lot about, and rightly so, just the kind of abysmal performance of people like de santas, but there is a structural problem that they're dealing with. So one thing that was interesting is there is a differ even though sort of de santas and haley they're, both kind of stuck where stock. You know everyone the hayley boom. What seems to have them not not done too much booming, but there's a difference in their polling

among the sanders supporters. I people think trump can win as a fifty nine percent thing when a sub and a minority thinks that he that that is impossible for haley, it's the opposite, so Haley has consolidated the anti trump vote and santos is doing well with people still like trumpeter open to an alternative but was interesting, is how both of those paths have not worked right like there's not enough of an anti vote to rally around haley to give her anything that she can do and kind of trying to get. People who, like trump to switch, is basically impossible, because if you like trump he's right there do, I really need to know, but this is a the quoted and bc hutton. This write up from MA one lookin caucus gore, who said they can promise me a million dollars. I tell them to keep it and I would still vote for drop. logan. I, like a person, ok and browse, like I tried it spin zone around his aunt is nearly here is one thing you could try actually run against the person winnings

One step two there may be is in expectations, management challenge now for trump, so they lose by like twenty and then they're like so something to have political scientist, snivel sang, look chums baseline incumbents income is usually when the hour catches by like sixty seventy right. They have a much higher total than fifty percent of the votes. Maybe you could in that. Maybe I don't know- maybe gain on him in this last month. I'm trying your flailing. No, I much like them. I I pray. It is the iowa it's not about winning the iowa caucuses. It's about how you are perceived to have done by an arbitrary jury of your non peers, called the press corps and the pundit class and then the voters in new Hampshire. So I do think that this point I'm looking beyond iowa, as I'm sure mickey hayley and rock dissent. As our like. I don't know you make up this much ground and five weeks I have not seen it happen, certainly in our lifetime, from anyone this close to the carcass but

if the santa stays in and haley stays in after iowa and the go to new Hampshire. I do think there's a bigger, independent vote there that bigger college educated vote there that we know for sure and there's most likely a bigger anti trump vote there, and so then, if it, if all these voters wake up and though trumps runnin away with it, then no, who knows? Maybe you get more than mixed in Hampshire, but I am doubtful Chris kirsty scheme our in almost tying the vague promise. Swami is gonna, be tough for timber, vague yeah, yeah. Well, there's a lot of talking for team vague these days. I get. This anti seems to be sticking with a strategy of half heartedly criticising trump on twitter let salvo came after Donald trump told this bizarre and I'm sure a hundred percent, true story at the new york young republican club. Last saturday night I saw the cooks from islamic. What trumps dress? when a taxis in new york for a gala, what the hell that's? That is the sign of someone who is

not worried about any competition in the republican primary. Let's listen clip and a general is a fantastic general actually said. To be, sir, I've been on the battlefield, men down on my left and on my right. I stood on hills with soldiers were killed, but I believe the bravest thing I've ever seen was the night. You went on to that stage with Hillary Clinton. After what happened, and then add woman ass to the first question about it and I said the locker room. Talk it's like what what are you I honestly, have to hand to transfer like not packing up while helping that story. The the first reason: entire genre, yeah, did you tell so many made up the agenda. Coming to human beings are weeping over thing is awesome its eyes. I gotta be like yours, so awesome. I just had to tell you that decide. There always are sometimes their hot pilots

were often reality rouses gave every grumbling in tears. Details about green wholly was to me so in response to this weird story. Dissenters accuses trump and military service and then says in his twitter post quote: debating, isn't brave. It's the bare minimum. Any candidate should do hiding from debates, on the other hand, is an example of cowardice. Meanwhile, here's what trumps at about two santas on Saturday night, you know, I love I love when they say we really want to run against donald trump. That's the that's the one we want. How did they? Don't worry sixteen, whether we donald trump. We don't Run against rhonda sanctimonious with its high heels, and his bible bullshit, you know like a had doll. The veterans like netflix special,

I love, he doesn't auntie woke stuff. He does cancel culture of these bases that has put her right next to chappelle. Why not just look around to see it just gives up and say I'm going to really take this no character limit for a spin here on twitter, going to write this long statement but know that I care about I'm going to call trump a coward, but instead of saying it in front of a cat in front of a crowd or at a debate, I'm just gonna tweet it it's a chump is like I'm gonna fuck. These lid turn five ways till sunday they don't know their dealing with and descended like its home. It's jehua their dealing cracks. Meanwhile, the trunk campaign is attacking reduced, and this is why, in accusing her of planning voter fraud, while she he gave an interview. Did you see what she said ass? She screwed that everybody come to ireland vote as I don't think. That's right, so we have to tell people richer, volunteer strategies that people should you don't have to be. You have to be a resident of iowa, too

it is a pay, is the problem in the caucasus, and so people going to send from all these other states and what she said she meant is that people can come to the state and volunteer knocking on doors, which, of course they can. But, sir, What do you think Donald trump's going to take it that way or anyone else? For the first time, people have bus people in from the playbook over mark penn, thin, listen and look like the guy at the iowa poll said what they said. Then, all of a sudden, it's just so funny like again trump, is literally attacking ronda senses. His wife in the most personal terms possible and the only sort of little lane that de santis thinks he can carve out and safely criticize trump about his participation in the debate. It's so pathetic. While any wants to come in because it's the whole, you know trump is strong, so you gotta call him weak. It doesn't work to just be like tweet quietly that he's weak, it doesn't matter value that are unlock the it's just that everybody is reading does Anders exactly four who he is and adjusted

it is as it were, and I do think like come back to the pull at the fact that more republican cocky scores in iowa believe trump is electable today. That a few months ago is such an indictment of the way these campaigns have tried to fight against trump, because that's the whole ball game for people without so that either you, I think, is the pole. suppose it's like after he had been in Japan jealous of way. Yet they also suck their dissent but they had to make any kind of argument around the felonies right that the fact the fact that those felonies have not changed his calculus at all is to get staggering, and so all these oh he's too weak to debate like the the. How dare you mister trump? It doesn't work with the country, it's sure, as fuck not going to work with republicans, who have become basic, We full blown fuckin animals like how dare you, MR trumpets, our troops that our brave like wind is that work. It didn't work with fuckin. He did the gold star thing at the.

The convention in two thousand, and sixteen it has not going to work with republicans in iowa and now dissenters are starting to do like polling analysis. You know he told some reporters in iowa that if it's trump trump's going to inspire higher democratic turnout and trump's going to bring out all the Democrats, if he, if he's the nominee and dissenters, won't bring out his me Democrats to vote against. It intends to lecture, go pay five, thirty, eight I they're just think like we've kind of been through a version of this right like when we were first. I remember when, when like we reversed thinking about like oh who's, going to challenge, a santos is like. Oh, is ronda sant as a bigger threat than donald trump in the general and at this point like watching the way to santa's kind of fuckin. he's doing. The word against Joe by mass trial hits above hit haiti and trump new zealand ortiz declared because he stuck in georgia, debating the wrong guy. The with we have in atlanta you can try strange, restore clerks next. Well,

to get one december surprise over the weekend. That could shake up the final weeks of the caucasus: a real, authentic, actual p tape, but not from donald trump. During a twitter spaces live stream with elon musk accused rapist, Andrew tate and the newly reinstated alex jones vague round. The swami forgot to turn off his mike while taking a week. He was America humans in Gaza. The thing everybody I found open to the bathroom of active have access that you'll find a vacuum. Able to meet you go ahead. I'm sorry about that, though. Well, I hope you feel better. I feel great. Thank you, sorry that I guess I'll tell ya I'd rather hear in than talk, I'll take my boys come out water sports, but a world have happy holidays. Everybody thinks it out of its or right.

I do like that. He ivy I accidently tuned into this twitter space of tourists, budgets those slip, a slavonic keystroke, their alexander, vague it was like my flynn was on truly the worst and future secretary of state, and it was. It was the trump cabinet for the second term of the worst people in politics I tuned in, and they were complaining about. The possible creation of an unelected world government in Davos in the world economic forum is exactly what you would expect so I turned off. I meant it Well, you, when you just brought up the newsome to santas debate, did you see or hear that at at the gala rip on Saturday night with the trump was at the republican gala? He did say that Some one. The debate on nice, which is what you are doing, that for that the ice is that those rights, the meanest they did.

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trained at the border and banning people from even applying for asylum closing down the entire border. Meanwhile, ukrainian isn't. Vladimir Linsky is making a special tripped dc to plead with congress for support, though centre length for the lead republican negotiator just told ended nothing's linsky says, will change republican mines and that they probably won't be able to get a deal by the end of the week nice. So it does look like I mean I guess that doesn't mean that ukraine, it is dead for good, but it does seem like it's not it's not gonna happen and twenty three, one time I that was a murphy said something like. If I were cynical, I would say they're using the border to make sure he can pass ukraine aid, but I'm not cynical, which I think, with a totally cynical sounded like a way of saying. Without saying that he's a pretty word withholding, don't you think that the republicans could have said?

that nothing's Alinsky says, will change their mind before Zelensky got on a plane to kill the guy got pretty fucking rude actually in the middle of a real war. I know you're. I know it. I know it's on tv for you, but it's an actual war is terrible for him. I still don't see how this is going to get done, even in twenty twenty four, because I mean murphy on christmas eve, the we democratic negotiator was on with the press and he basically like outlined what a compound eyes on the border could look like he's that we're not gonna support anything that shuts down the border completely to people who get you're coming here to have their lives rescued, but we are willing to talk about tightening some of the rules so that you don't have ten thousand people arriving a day but I don't know, I don't know what the republican incentives are to political incentives are to go along with a compromise at them. I don't either I it it seems like they evolve, just cut into a place politically, where they feel like being in support of ukraine. Funding is bad politics for them with the base, because trumpets demagogue didn't because its

this right wing cause to oppose supporting ukraine, and it just means that over time that the ukrainian notice it's going to slowly run out of weapons. I mean literally like they're they're going to their air defense system is pretty good right now that over couple of months, they will run out of interceptor missiles. The things will slowly break down. They'll stop being able to defend from these drone attacks. Many people will die because they're not able to intercept these things, and though I mean it's not going to be like a precipitous. You know one day they just won't be able to fight any more but they're going to have to their strategy, the probably to leave territory. You'll, have Putin feeling like Jesus, ended and he'll, be look into our election and thinking boy, viking, press now and wait till donald trump. Around than of nobody In my way I mean this out there about that. I'm in trouble plot anita. Well there there certainly threatening that talking about it and look

the minority of republicans, mostly in the senate, who are for ukraine Aid still know that republican voters are in favour of much much tougher immigration and border problem. is, and so even though even the ones were for ukraine aid. I dont know what the political incentive for them is to compromise on the border when they know they ve got the issue and that their base wants tougher policies right, especially because, even if they could get even if they get a compromise which, whether it is still possible right deals, have come out. Oh yes, more intransigent situations and this that, even if they get a deal that has incredibly restrictive changes to border policy, Toby enough republicans, calling it a capitulation and a failure to

mitigate any political game. They could have right because, as you said, like republicans in congress are more in favour of ukraine at them they'd than republican voter. So there are publicans who want to vote for aid and are looking for a political way to do so. Border security is a way for them to get there, but not, if doing it, then all of a sudden, all these house, republicans who say if it's not our bill, it's basically it's basically a kind of amnesty or whatever the going to say of a sudden there doing somebody out there politics and their own, I'm going to make it seem as though they ve capitulated. Democrat yeah. Look even theoretically. If you get some kind of a deal with republicans in the senate, who were and theoretically, slightly more moderate on board,

duff and might want to compromise that kind of deal. It seems very difficult for that deal to get through the house that the question is like. Did they try to split Israel aid off at some point? And do that, though? I don't know like, I think, the idea again that the Democrats in the senate should all vote for aid to durable with no conditions, is lunacy. At this point neither do, I think they probably will, but I absolutely think it's outrageous. I talked to em centre welsh last week from vermont and he was talking about all the conditions he wants to see me. There's definitely growing concern about the the number of airstrikes by the idea and the need to condition it, and I I haven't seen hundred of you've seen tommy like any evidence whatsoever that, over the last couple of weeks, Netanyahu has changed strategy at all to do more to limit civilian casualties or settler violence at all, the opposite, yeah. So, ah, that's just terrible all right. So one thing kong

did get done is forcing the resignation of university of pennsylvania. President lives mcgill, who, along with the presidents of harvard at mit, was called to testify last week about anti semitism on campus, when at least a fanatic asked whether quote, calling for the genocide of Jews would violate their schools code of conduct mcgill only one, as far as to say quote. If this speech turns into conduct, it can be harassment. The other two presidents gave similar answers. The clip went viral. It was widely condemned by politicians and both parties, and even though they all try apologize, mcgill ultimately resigned on Saturday. So we ve been talking about this, yet just been brewing in the background. What do you guys think about this whole controversy? A man of his prison lobby like I like stefanik, set two traps and they stepped into both they are they ve been kind of

dove had first into both of them are chart. Trap number one is concerned is created caricature. What's going on a college campuses and character basically says: if you express any kind of conservative viewpoint, it consider bigotry is considered hate speech, you'll be yelled at you'll, be barked off campus and innate pull out examples of of protest or americans If the judge gets he gets yelled at and then they say see if you suppress anything other than liberal or orthodoxy. Ah, you're you're not safe on campus, but you can say any kind of antisemitic thing you want and that's okay, because this is about espousing what they call a sort of extremist views on gender and race and other us. That's like trap number, one that characterise second trap is equating any form of legitimate criticism of Israel, horrible, if or anti zionism at all, and trying to equate that completely with anti semitism right. That's what a lot of republican the house have done. They just passes resolution, and it says

right there in the middle anti zionism is anti semitism to pet to basically paint anything. Anyone who is not supportive of is well as being anti semitic, that as a part of this project, and basically this hearing was a way to get these college presidents to fall into both of those traps and in the way, by by the way, they'd sat there for hours answering questions and by the time they got to this moment they kind of fell in that trap. Why? Because it sort of like ghostbusters, when someone asks, if you're a god, you say yes, if someone tries to bait you into doing anything to defend, call for genocide. You have to not take that bay yeah, I mean ve, just seen so like rigid and lawyers up in tied to their talking points that they, How were incapable of answering the most obvious question in the world, which is, is genocide bad. right. I shouldn't stump. You of your college president, but you're right, leg stefanik was playing a game in bad faith which it was trying to say she was trying to get these presidents to accept the premise that the word intifada is calling for a genocide. That is just not true. Just not

father means uprising, avenue, referencing specific points in time. The first intifada was naked. Eighty seven is primarily civil disobedience, so there was rock throwing their molotov cocktails. It was violence. The second intifada started in two thousand and was much more violent. Suicide bombings. Huge crackdown in response just like in town. the loss of life. So what you just did the traps use china two way is to say to get them with the is like, if p, then q little logic bom dia to say: do you agree that saying intifada is calling for genocide, a ha? Why didn't you punish those kids, then for saying- and he thought but they stepped on the rake before she had time to lay her full trap. You I was just going to fish like shocked at that their response? They can't answer the question: does calling for the genocide of Jews violate your policy against harassment? I was just going to say, like I, don't think the tree

Was that clever that she set? But now I know you can get to it, because when you look at jedi that puts jen but leaves or the whole yet when you look at the time when you look at the transcript actually does separate intifada from the genocide thing so sheets arts, ivo intifada, which is something as you point out me. That does depend on context whether or not its violence that that does depend on, but but thing she she says, and this is completely completely hypothetical, because this is not something they heard from students at pen. What would you say about call for a call for the genocide jews. And if you hear someone ass you if you're university is ok with students calling for genocide of Jews, you just say no yeah you're, just saying. That's why some cars that arise there? That's an easy one! Sunday night, these are hard easy one, the other the other part about this, like. I do think that, like as progressive like, I think it's worth calling out the game right, like first of all like weapon rising anti semitism. Is it

because there isn't anti semitism it's wrong, because there is a lot of anti semitism. Diminishing it and try to equate a legitimate protests with anti semitism, be china paint home movement is being anti semitic like I like that is, that is that is dangerous, because it turns something that should be serious and It is the threat that it is into a political cudgel foresaw and also by the way it like changes. The incentives for people like there is anti semitism inside of the anti zionism movement. That is a problem that is a real problem. It is a problem in some parts of the left and like it, we don't take that seriously and treat that would like the specificity and an end and honesty that are required I just it's, it's very it's dangerous yeah! I think most people at a harvard pro palestine rally are there to call for a ceasefire and to call for a two state solution. You don't like sort of self evident. I think part of the problem. More broadly, for some of these college presidents is, there has been a context created a lot of progressive spaces that

Words are equivalent to violence and that sometimes how you perceive those words is more important than the intention of the individual saying them and I think the intention of the individuals at these pro palestine rallies got lost in this bad faith, logic, trap and so, like long story short, these college presidents looked unbelievably tone deaf when it comes to combating anti semitism and they botched their testimony so badly that I do worry that it could shrink the political space for pro palestine activists who just want to save lives on both side and are just like there for legit. it speech in berlin and political purposes, because these fucking people couldn't say genocide. Is that- and there was a moment earlier in stiff onyx testimony where she asked the present of harvard she said quote a harvard suit and calling for the mass murder of african americans is not protected. Free speech at harvard correct in the president did

say correct. She could she said our commitment to free speech example. They add I was like bow, and I, like you, the president ecology, through the talking point, but when I get that they all feel a lot of these presents administrators acknowledges now feel like they're they're caught in this free speech. Debate that again lot of its bad If the rightwing started on those down, it's been weaponized but like you can have a code of conduct for all people. Like first amendment first amendment, it's the code of conduct at a private college university, so you can have the conduct, be what you want it to be like you should be able to police hate speech, especially hate speech that calls for violence against margin, as groups whichever the groups may be and if it and that's the decision of the administrators if this speech sort of goes into, calling for violence against marginalized groups, really gets any one calls for violence like

you're right it, but it should be the and it should be the intent of the speech and like if he, if an of obviously that's a case by case basis, but like yeah hate speech, the calls for violence, you should be able to place them on campus. yeah and I just one other thing about all. This is like right. These conservatives don't give a fuck about free speech, because the thing that they ve been trying to accuse the left out forever, which is basically trying to make conservative views beyond the pale by turning anything. You say that isn't progressive into a some kind of bigotry to make it unwelcome on college campuses. That is exactly what they're trying to do here. So it's it's just a it's just a of a farce yeah, but for presence of colleges and administrators who actually want to like have real standards that everyone can abide by without any hypocrisy like

we may be start with. Ok, yeah, violent speeches by speech that step one step too, don't go to congress and was yet subpoena than they were united ere. They were invited should better things. Hey look at this hut still think. I want to touch it with one, and I tried one and I get on a plane. I heard a lot of indecent guy there by the end of it ass. I didn't realize, love and over time with this before. Like did you know that this that mcgill there was like a long history of her getting in trouble for not taking a stance and anti semitism even before october, seven I've got so she's had this long history there, which makes it even crazier for her to accept the end issue to go, and I also look I'll send you think it's like the stuff.

word right. Is that, like these are supposed to be places where people can express unpopular, dangerous, abhorrent views as long as they're, not calling for violence against anybody and like that is an important spirit like that. That idea that, like that's what tenure is about like the free exchange of ideas like that is an important part of like the culture on these campuses. But I do think that, like there have been times when these college presidents, because of pressure from on campus from it, asian for professors faculty from students at of like they ve they put them. They gave to get through short term new cycles where they wanted to see a certain way on. Certain contentious issues have like put out statements and taken stands right and put them in a position now and then they go before congress and they're put in a position like this, where they have to answer these questions, they suddenly feel on their hills because they once again want to go back to the basics. Well well. Well, well, we don't take a position while we don't take a position. I think that we should take a position,

a good position to have for people at a college campuses. Owing to the point I made to about the about what is how its shrinks the space for palestinian protesters and in other people on the left like. I think it is good for the law To understand to that, when, like some conservative, you dont like comes to campus an end, says some odious things that don't cross the line into directing violence towards people like yet your foot if protest them, you're free to argue them, tell them they're fucking idiots, but like the idea that those people and even be allowed on campus at all is the same kind of because in the flip side of this, if you have palestinians on campus we're trying to talk about a cease fire or two state solution to then have that be characterized as anti semites. some automatically in it that shouldn't exist, like you, dont want that either look a bunch of conservatives just spend their whole weekend trying to get the present at the university of Pennsylvania cancelled and she was. You cancel their He was a victim of cancer culture. Now they will call it that they'll never think about it. That way, that's exactly what happened and

the about and she did apologize and so did the other president holiday? Doesn't care apologies yet, as I find it too funny going on twitter, but, like I got one for three like she's on it like she's doing do in wacko Malta carnival. I do think that, if you're really for free speech in intellectual freedom, you should be very concerned about the conflation of anti semitism Andy's ice. First of all, a lot of the earliest zionists rashly anti semitic, a lot of them living there. Safe there like oh yeah, let's build a state for the Jews and send a mare right, like you can imagine that happens to this gestion that criticizing israeli policy is somehow anti semitic, I think, is just wrong. Israel is a country, yet it's governed by people, of course, political views. They can be right and wrong ray and they get to vote on those and so conflating. Those two is just a very dangerous path to go down, yeah and obviously a lot of debates here, but again, what do you think about a call for genocide that, like a very just denounced Semitism denounced the weaponization of anti semitism in harvard, if you really had genocide, saga henry kissinger,

a little bit. Oh there we go hey! Look at! I go back to my position. If you want and I'm comfortable that we can just shut harvard, I do think that that money go live and where I am like I'd look. It's like. I think we ve had enough. That's. Why doesn't he had a nice run our weight list We must make my fucking year, like we're, gonna fuck I without having ever heard of a war in Gaza. Thus he reveals that most criticism of harvard is for people who did not raise any school massachuset anyway, are you guys I was born there. I didn't. I didn't applied. A hybrid didn't realize that you are carrying their trip on your shoulder congenitally. Let's, let's

about what's happening with abortion in texas, a woman from Dallas named Kate Cox, found out that her fetus had a fatal genetic condition in that carrying the pregnancy to term could threaten her own health and ability to have children in the future. Because texas has a total ban on abortion, she had to go all the way to the texas supreme court to get permission first time when it has had to get permission to get an abortion from a court, since roby wade was decided and, of course, texas attorney general can Paxton opposed Her doing this asking for permission, yell, descent, frightening letters to the various hoss as is well saying that they would be prosecuted if they add her to have the abortion, but while the texas supreme court was deciding, it was too dangerous for her to wait for the ruling. So she just left the state to get an abortion. This is a horrific, horrific story. We've seen a lot of debate recently. I think about whether abortion will be as big of an issue in twenty twenty fours. It wasn't twenty twenty two I would say

Well, this certainly makes it seem like it will be. But what do you guys think yeah mean one of the things that came out of the polling and the results in twenty two? Is that in places like new york and California, where the threat of state abortion laws, local abortion laws wasn't as salient, ah that the results weren't as good for democrats that there was a way in which places in places where people felt the threat personally locally that felt more real and severe. We saw better outcomes. I do think that, like is other, there example to a woman named brittany wants in ohio is facing felony charges if she had a miscarriage at twenty two weeks, another awful awful story and I do think, as we head into two thousand twenty four: the fact that, if Donald trump wins and republicans hold the house and when the senate they will pass a nation one. Abortion ban and look Kate Cox was able to leave texas to find healthcare in another place. The goal of republicans there

Political is to make sure there is nowhere for people to go to get medical care. There will be no safe place. There will be no place where doctors won't face the agonizing choice between practice medicine and facing criminal or civil liability. There will be no place where, where people will feel like they can get the care they need in time and like making sure that that is real for people everywhere. It like being in a democratic state will not protect you. There is a national borders. Men in having a governor, who understand this issue will not matter, if republicans, when the house, the senate and the white house, and not that to me as the point we have to be driving home over and over and over again, but this is just is unspeakably, cruel and vindictive. Unlike undercuts republican lie that these are decisions that are made carelessly or casual the by women or anybody else. I mean this is a woman who wants to have another child. She already went through the hell of learning that her fetus will not survive, and now she wants to have a big family. So the doctor told her the safest thing to do is have an abortion and because of this dystopian nightmare should go to court to get authorization.

for healthcare procedure that can you imagine that ain't you ve been to emergency room four times already because complications, and then this guy can Paxson is threatening to arrest doctors providing care. Again, you can get ninety nine years in prison for providing an illegal abortion. Ninety nine years life in prison in texas, so yeah and by the way she's had two kids before so she'll, probably have to have a c section again to deliver this child living or dead wood, means that could complicate her ability to have kids in the future so like there might be a small sliver of like extreme religious conservatives who think this is the path we should be going down on, but I think that the majority of even republicans in this country will think this is horrifying nightmare and will not want this, like KEN paxton should not be making these decisions. His last job before he worked in politics was at jc penney. This man should not be in your fucking hospital room

you, what to do this unbelievable, I don't care of his last job- has been a fuckin doktor right, like that. It also shows that, like republicans, trying to have it had have some kind of fine, some kind of middle ground. this right and some of them are like, while we will have exceptions for rape or incest or the life and health of the mother, but that still me is that those decisions are not being made by the doctors who are treating these women. The decision are being made by politicians, were writing it into law, and then the doctors have to decide. Well, is the health really in jeopardy here? Is the life really jeopardy here and then they have to get court orders, and then I have to wait for it to go up through the different. You know they have to go through the district court and they go to the federal court and it's just a fucking mess, which is why roe v wade offered the protections in the first place, because a bunch of politicians and judges should not

having to make these fucking decision is literally? This is literally an attorney general saying. No. No, that doctor is wrong. I know better than this woman's doctor. I know better than this person. I will decide what medical care she can encounter We have just wait for it to go through the courts in sending threatening emails to hospitals in the hue scenario, things and prosecute them. Ken paxton by the way, is like the worst of the worst. This is a man who is so bad at his job that he was impeached for bribery and abuse of office by texas republicans he might he might get prosecuted by the feds in the next year or two I mean this the right. This is the logical and state of republican policies, even the ones the moderates predicament, that their carving out some middle ground and I think, that's key because they'll bill, you know some of them whose story me see that some of the republican scent of candidates for twenty four are like trying to moderate their position. in abortion, then you have trump out there. Talking about exceptions are important, but blah blah. This is why the exceptions thing the fifteen week thing all of these like attempts it it's

at moderation. Just like don't actually work in real life usage the ninety nine years the doctors could get Missouri republicans are now introducing, legislation that would allow law enforcement to charge women who get abortions with homicides. This is women getting charged with homicide and if, of course, back in two thousand and sixteen when trump was running the first time he said there has to be some kind of punishment for women, which is what trump said so trump's going to try to sneak away from his position on abortion, but, as Levitt said, if he wins, republicans hold congress, which they are likely to do. If Donald trump wins, then we're going to see a nationwide ban converse, ie. If Joe Biden wins and democrats keep the senate and your place Carson cinema with reuben guy ago Democrats can pass a national law that will nullify the texas ban so that women, like Cox, even in states like texas, dont, have to leave the state does not just to stop awful things from happening.

this case it's also. If we elect Joe Biden Democrats, then we could get national abortion protections for people. So another thing to think about our before go to break if you're looking for something to binge this holiday season, friends at the pod, subscribers now have exe to a new limited, serious feed where you can listen uninterrupted to this land green town, atalanta and another russia right now, a great series take a listen had to cricket dot com, slash friends. We can sign up and die and listen to some limited series, also catch pod? Save america's final live show of the year in sin, say it is tomorrow december thirteenth, co, host who d messy will be there and I will not I'm on and when I run baby was talking about. What do you mean when I say I don't want to be a? I don't want to be a plane ride away from home. If somebody goes into labor early, so you're gonna. Do we hear you're you're you're an observer? Basically it's basically going to the theater for you next

anyway. It's gonna be a great shout. I can't wait to listen I came here: tickets and crooked dot com slush events. Now, when we come back you a w president, Sean fain sits down with tommy to talk about the union's history. Winds and what comes next, the of america is brought by buy into nothing feels quite like giving the perfect gift and no gift fits more perfectly. Then, an indochina suit their made to measure and totally customizable with em options, choose your own cut fabric lining and more to create the suit of your dreams. A surprisingly affordable price indochina also makes Measured easy set up your measurement profile in less than ten minutes. You can measures from the comfort of your own home or make an appointment at one of their showrooms from timeless classics, bold statements, express your style exactly how you want with new colors fabrics. Our worst isles. It's easy to create your next look: choose the customer

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as an outsider as a reformer. I don't think a lot of folks were. Will you know where we're betting on you in the early days when he started to run keeps explained like the the basics of the reform, that led to you getting elected, yeah. You know really. I'm just like a lot of our members, have been frustrated for the better part of twenty nine years, just style. We ve had a very complacent leadership that, Just really was what I would say was more of a company union philosophy. Were they in a were somewhat organ closely hand in hand with the companies under. You know when they do that the workers tend to pay the price and, with all the things that went on in the union, there was a corruption scandal with some of our leaders. You know the government, became involved in that think that was a genesis for in all. We ve had reform movements in the past a back in the eighties, and but you know that the establishment, the administration carcasses. What has ran this union for years, which was the top leadership? They created the caucasus that amidst

over everything so and have had enough long ago have been alive, so we if the things that have went on recently in the last several years, you know there was a reform caucus to form called unite all workers for democracy. U a w d and you know they. They pushed a a referendum for one member one vote where every member was able to directly elect the topic if the union in the past we were elected convention system of elections, which, every local was allowed, so many delegates based on their size of their membership in it, was of control, environment, the conventions of the past of the administration caucus had their hand over hand. M was able to twist arms threaten people and you know get the results they wanted. So there was really never e a true. Mechanic election in my life, time so you a dvd was able to push for the referendum and the membership supported it end.

It passed overwhelmingly. So we were able to get one member one vote and that's really what catapulted myself in you know a lot of reformers into these positions of leadership, because without that election, without a direct election of our top leaders, I would in her right now? So that was really, though, the catalyst yeah that'll get listening about thinking why I love a direct election in american politics, electoral college thing that seems like a pretty good army, but so you're, just six into your into your tenure as president. Do you be launched, strikes against three of the biggest automakers in the? U s. Can you describe for folks what you fighting for and and talk about, some the tactics you use like the stand up strike that was so different in successful. now the truly the platform I ran on was completely changing our culture in this union. Changing everything we ve been doing, because what we ve been doing us not been working. Our numbers, mingling backwards for years are conditions of going backwards for years and dumb

It was really about. Do you know what I was alive it was trying to bring in some people that work in You a members that had experience and organise labour and growing unions, organizing an and borrowing the contracts and in he recognized If we did have an in house on staff and an end in the uk w that had a lot of the same for us, because I had that new that saw the issues need to be dealt with, so we got it. and put together and my Emily eight months and others, so you ve done a hell of a lot and a headache short months, but tat. It was about in a culture you know we ve never had a contract campaign, a sad as that sail. We have never really contract campaign. In my lifetime, in the big three when it came to bargaining, which that to me he was d the thing that really guy the membership rallied around our issues and their issues. Instead, issues not mine, and so you know why

had these tears. What we call tears of workers that we know are doing the same work on the same line or the same job in up in a plant or facility in in one person's it in a full pay, one person's taken eight years to get the full pay and another? Maybe attempt worker that's been out there for working as attempt for five or six years, but work in seven days a week. It's not temporary work, so ending tears, is a big issue, living allowance, naturally, because what have with inflation? Alas, for years was a mass of issue we ve had cause to living allowances since the nineteen forties and fifties and it went away with the economic recession in or as the companies used during. fashion as a means to pretty much go back words on a lot of our victory over the years and so a big one, you know retirement, security is a huge issue not just with us, but in his country, so trying to address some the retirement issues, a jew security and in this the av transition. The easy battery weren't when I

elected we were, we were screwed. Does we want about it? I mean the the joint ventures ease please it form to circumvent their obligation to their workers and to our contracts. It's not accepted so you're. There were several issues that we were trying to undo literally decades of of going backwards in one contract, and so you know what we re contract campaigned to get the members rallied around those issues. In corporate greed. I mean this job was done. One thing in corporate greed in in the fact that you know where we pushed the initiative. You know that in the narrative that are are the three had made a quarter of a trillion dollars in profits. In the last decade, in corporate ceo paid when up forty percent over the last four years with art to three points pay increases in the last four years, but with inflation we went backwards and so Really wanna get members rallied around those issues, and so that was a piece the contract campaign. The other thing was in the communication:

transparency of our union. We had to turn it around because in the past members and local leaders, and even people on staff were always told you. Don't you don't speak media only the president's speech, only the vice presidents weeks. But then nobody spoke and so are we ever heard, you know going into bargaining. Was you know company put the nerd about their about the greedy earning workers, or you know that the old they got these pensions or they have this or that ends bankrupt in a company which is all lies, but We didn't have leadership that was aggressive in responding to that and putting the facts out. So we really it was empty have transparency with the membership, so throughout the entire process, before bargaining enduring bargaining. We were doing weekly updates. Facebook lie social media updates and really does took off took off not just with our membership but ashley globally. It great to see that- and I think that all was laying the groundwork for where we were going to go with. You know we

with what we will be asking for the companies we're gonna just be willing to freely give it so we unlikely likely. We thought we would have to have a strike. So you know typically in the past. Also our leadership would pick one company. They would call the target company and they would bargain with one company and set the pattern and then they would go to the next to I'd. Never like that Lastly, because I felt like it, it would leave the two companies kind of with what they're doing you know just on the back burner, waiting and em. So we wanna take on all three at the same time the cup. traditionally wouldn't knowing that would would draw negotiations out until like a week before the deadline and start getting serious, but at that point the president and vice presence would come in and cut the deal behind closed doors with a corporate leadership. So my flask that was I didn't like that. We made it very clear that please before even began barking. That September fourteenth was a deadline, not a reference point. It was a deadline and it was a deadline for all three companies, not one. We were not going to pick a target. The target was

all three of them and we expect them to to be at the table. and get agreement done by the fourteenth and if they didn't there would be repercussions for that. There be action we knew it all I get. Would we'd have to strike to get what we needed to get so in a way we have a strike fund and we want to figure out what was the best way to attack these companies, and don't maximizing effect, but also efficiently use our strike fund so that we can keep taking action. Down the real, rather than go through all the money in one big massive strike of urban walk out the same time. So so we came up with a stand up strike camp You know what kind of a homage to our sit down strikes that built the labour movement back in the thirties and and it worked out. You know I mean really. This is all it was uncharted territory for some weird. You know doing this. We had a lot of people feed in this our research team. In a lot of you know, We were mapping out the plants, mapping out each case company play at what they did. How would affect other plants down the line.

We try to you, know assimilate targets based off high profile targets, mid level targets and things, and in the it would have on the company, so we really We really did a lotta legwork on that early in research and into dumb. You know to form that play and saw it in and it worked masterly. I mean it, you know so that, so that was really What led into all this. I guess I'm not a long answer, but those that I'd hate now threatening it's complicated. The amount set action then. is. It really did a masterful job of cannon area, therein and talking to folks in, I think getting public opinion on your side, and I know that will be important because you think you've said publicly the next day For the: u, a w 's unionization drives at nonunion plants. In the: u s: companies like toyota, hyundai so now. I know you won. Mosque is like you now sets a pre nasty things about unions in the past work. What what is like an unionization drive at those? non union factories. Look like well, you know

look in the past. I mean no again were differing another. We ve been in my lifetime and I think that's that's the in part of this is just you know? I think we have a lot of momentum now throughout this entire contract campaign and through the through the strike, Larry had thousands of non union autoworkers reaching out to us and actually signing cards online and end up. So you I have always said this always had his philosophy that you know when my grandparents racial and eight. When the Uk Debbie formed a mini people with depression. They wanted a better life for themselves, and so you know at the union when they organized you know they found a better life and it led them to you know they lived the american dream and that american dream meant dead. You know, since the I don't want to say the presence name of the eighties, but since that person took overrun drove us,

I'm in the ground and drove this country in the ground, and in it I went to a different philosophy of dust, enriching the written in sacrificing the working class, in a poor. You know we ve been going through forty plus all of this and damn it to turn around, and so you know this to me. It's not about that moscow. The world, you know I mean no test- was accompanied us like the rest of the non eu companies are under their getting rich off the bachelor person in oh it. It's interesting in looking the numbers alone. I mean if we looked at the big three and we talked about the quarter tree in dollars and profit. The big three made the forty percent seo pay increases, but when you look at the top ten nineteen auto manufacturers they made over twelve Million dollars in revenue in the last decade, trillion dollars in profits, the japanese, what we call the japanese or korean six made ford and eighty billion in profits and in the german three made four hundred sixty billion, and you know

yoda of all of em actual just in georgetown two days ago and spoke to some workers went from from toiler georgetown under who you know, have expressed desired, organise and dumb As I told them, you know these companies will run massive campaigns. They'll bring in union busting firms, they'll put every negative narrative, the cane out there about unions, and it's all, it's all designed for one reason to put fear in the mind of workers to make them afraid recognising the real power that they have made. The workers have the power when you dont have a union and you're an employee at will, you don't have a lot of power because they can fire you any day the weak, and we talk about the a debbie about since we shall be bought. These record contracts right away three days later gave an eleven percent pay increases their employees Father sue nissan, followed suit, and I twenty five percent to twenty eight, which match what we have done. they could have done as a year ago. I mean they could have done it six months ago. Why do they do it now? Because they know the threat is there

that these workers realise the potential of the power they have suffered. trying to fraud and crime, open the door not come therefore share the pie and dumb Look at all those things in your goes back to one thing: it's corporate greed and end it in saying to me that we know you look at the history. The big three We played to that in this campaign. Toyota alone made made two hundred fifty six billion. They made six billion more than the big three combined in the last decade. And their seals pay when up a hundred, twenty five percent in the last two years, they're doing all that off the backs of the worker. So this archives the one thing you know when it comes to organizing- and we have the lastly, of record profits. Legal record contracts in these workers know have contracts dealing with it. Get a contract, was through organizing and join the union, but they ve got to stick.

facts. What that was my message to the workers at toiled and ass. My message to all these workers over the country that no have a union is you? Don't you Have the power and its only gonna happen when workers get fed up and stand together, because the companies and the wealthy classes always. Taken all the loot doing what they're doing you know having twenty six bayonets have as much while the haven't you mainly that happens because they divide in class over every issue under the sun, whether its guns or whatever it is. You know, working class people fight, for all these things than a scrape and get by page? the page network. In seven days we work in multiple jobs trying to survive and the companies the corporate world and in the billion or classes walking away with with all the money and concentrating the wealth and fewer and fewer hands. So when we talk about that in a way that to me a southern I learned from covered that you know it was a silver lining. If there was one in the cupboard pandemic was. We had a great example there. If you look at a fast food industry, people set up

coming to work a mcdonald's for twelve dollars an hour and risky my life, stayed home and what happened mcdonnel started. in twenty dollars an hour twenty five dollars an hour, the pay went up immensely to get people come to work in that's a great lesson for working class people at the power that we have so You know when you're in a point will you don't have that power as as much because could be fired any any regional, no reason at all as an employee it will. But when you have a union, you can't be you have due process, you have a contract, those terms, and so to me, class. People need to focus on. We mean to harness that power in the world but it has organizing in unison coming together and in working in fighting together in all this for two sustainable, working class people and that's that to me the key in all frankness, boiled in these countries gave these raises and stuff. Here recently we call the utopia bump. They could take it away tomorrow with the country,

we just bargain, for they can't take that away to morrow. They had ran up the terms, the agreement so in others there so many benefits, and I just think workers have to realise a power we have if we, if we with all our labour. Nothing, no matter what industry it is, that means a lesson out a covert and out of that, the fast food after what we saw there and everywhere, as you know, the we in our class- and you know that other parties want to call these people creators wherever stupid name, you want to give them their exploiters is what they are and we have the power but if we then you'll be in our class to corporate class can build the factories and other businesses they want. But if workers don't do the work, nothing moves not going to get produced, they will get done. So we have recognized that power and its organised labors job to lead that fight. That's really what this whole an issues about agreed, imagined political support in your answer. Their president, we want named wraps with pagan, obviously workers who put their

Jobs on the line and hit the picket line deserve all the credit. For these reason he possesses but I wondering what it meant to you to your members to have political support from the white house. Tat president Biden become the first president. Join the picket line. It's a big deal, I mean that's, never happened, In also, naturally, it's a big deal in a wheel it's one thing else, I'm I'm I'm other thing that I'm proud of you know when we took over, you know: we've we had history in this union and a lot of organized labor of just endorsing one party in. You know it's not really requiring much work out of it, and dumb, so That's one thing I said earlier on was we were not just gonna give endorsements, they're, gonna be earned and dumb, and we mean that- and there was a lot of work to be done with the heavy by transition, and you know proofs of the pudding in you for our members end and for me, as far as we make endorsement so in prison,

by coming envisage new pick? A line was a big deal there too, working with a site, sectoral labour julie, sue in them. Was trade ambassador, Catherine tie. You know deals on the korean issues with some these partnerships at these companies had on that day they were, hard with a sin, and not just with us with the companies to to make this and so on in all thy thinkers to disparities. When you look at these two canada's right now I mean, obviously you have a present. came and visit the picket line and stood with workers, and you had another former president that went to another in business and had a rally for union workers at an onion business and that person's just trying to play the crowd and in its workers are smarter than at me. Look at it. record that person and he has an abysmal track record when it comes to unions and organise labour and workers having their fair share. So the others too,

to eating cancers to two great disparities. There I mean then so obviously, but you know the president coming in business pick a line was a big deal in them and you know it so we still have work to do but dumb or death on the right track here about about that's our broader labour record. In contrast, may now but- and I join the picket line- you sent me talk about the work somebody rise on a visa and the battery factories, but so the nl r has taken steps to prevent employers from unfairly impacting union recognition votes by firing pro union workers, as I wonder, porter called at the nl arby's most important ruling indebted aids for labour, theirs in new overtime rules, there, updating the Davis bacon act and then, when you look back at the trump record, him stack in the courts, anti labour judges. He made eugene scalia. The union busting corporate lawyer as labour secretary and I'll Arby's bees, making it harder for workers, but in I still noticed at trump got forty

scent of the vote from union households, according to the twenty twenty exit polls, summers wondering what you think leads to that level of support. Is it people care about other things that are necessarily union specific. Is it you know, lack of understanding of that contrasts. You talked about earlier. What's your think? We had to do a better job again, I go back to our leadership or leaderships been silent for years for decades, and we have to get the facts out there. even with this organizing campaign. You know it it's you know, as As I told these workers at georgetown the other day in and look what we're gonna keep talking about this, you know the company's put the fear out there. They want fear fear fear, that's how they operate, but we have the first on our side, working class people. The facts on our side in the facts are very simple. Comes to this you when we talk about the problem These companies and is no different politics, and I think the former president who ate refused to say his name. You know the facts speak,

selves about where he stands working class people I think we really have to put it- out there. We really have to continue to pay him at home to our members and working class people in general. Again I go back to the old, though the billion are classed a wealthy class by design they they create a lot of issues out there and try to divide the electorate over single. Shoes and it works. It's worked in the past, but we ve got to be focused on what matters What matters is the other day. It was we go to work to put food on the table. We go to work to have a decent standard of living, and most people are struggling in that in that realm. Majority people dont have any retirement savings can afford to safe retirement. So there are a lot of issues. I think that you know that I think Democrat party needs to get focused on it and really we need to drive together and if have a lot of success, a lot more success. I think that you know the the last person getting elected in you know prior to president Biden I think that was, moreover, of a rapidly

I'm not, but in a few to place the establishment, because we know that they were just fed up people, people frustrated that their frustrated f going backwards and fight. Struggling, and so I think that was just makes me a fuck you to everyone that our vote for this area, because I'm just pissed and dumb yeah, so I think we really have to connect the dots. You know and just really put the facts out there. The facts speak for themselves, and so I just think we really need to to to bury that. You know am embed that and I think it'll change yeah. It was a fuck you to relate as a fuck you to get establishment whose people feel like the matter, they voted for nothing changed, so school in their lives, so you'd like to review their last question speaking of divisive issues, I were, as I was preparing for this region upon you. I heard that your big nineties rap guy enough how you bridge the east coast west coast divide that was really that it for a long time. It also that occasionally world these wrapping a karaoke is this. Is this fact

I have done it. Yeah I've done a few but yeah. I guess I'm midwest, so you know I liked. I liked these coast and west coast I mean I like to park, but I love you know I mean I love public enemy. I love you know and allow the music back in the nineties when no mean even me. I raise two daughters saw me. My daughters are too thirty one now, but damn you know the midday I died. noise, we shared music, you know, so I will stay up to date on all that stuff. You beyond! Oh yeah, you bet so I mean that some I love all genres of music, but naturally I played basketball back in the eighties in high school and stuff. So I was always a you know back on the sea was my days. I did say my beastie boys came out my senior year, so young, turn her mother unable to listen. I'm Forty three, the ninety nine defining generation for music for culture for everything, I've a one euro Daughter of god knows what shall be

when she's an ice cold that I'll be either hating are trying to pretend I understand, but listen. Thank you so much for doing the show, thanks for all the work you're doing it is I it's incredibly impressive and inspiring, and I keep at it up a best of luck at these. tesla and everywhere else. Oh yeah, no appreciate it and yet look forward to hopefully more dialogue in the future and talking about more victories coming to come with the organizing and we're going to we're going to grow, we're going to grow the working class and guerrilla movement and time working class people get their fair share. Amen amount will value again. Thank you. I think so. In for joining us ever have a great weak envy. You all The san jose show on thursday by everyone,

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