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on today's show the republican field grows to twelve. Is the sea sets new criteria for the first debate? Donald trump prepares to be indicted. Again, run dissenters tests out new lines of attack, an eye or nicky hayley does asean in town hall that no one noticed and Joe Biden takes a debt ceiling, victory lap with an oval office address, while his anti backs democratic challenges are of key junior. Does a twitter spaces event with elon musk how's that for us- and you don't have all those words together, so our mean something you know art or nothing. They mean that our children use that paragraph to explain to our children. What happened why the waters rose in the internet sat work. Then

later the washington post ben terrorist talks to tommy about his new book, the big break, which has a riveting account of d c in the post trump era, but first, if he can, please don't eight votes. Eight america's fuck bands leave queer kids alone funds which are supporting organisations on the ground and states that are and in care and targeting trans youth original goals if he doesn't dollars, but you guys already crush that just a few days, so we're gonna try to make it a hundred thousand nice think we can do that. You can donate to either political impact organizations, tax, deductible nonprofits or both just go to voting merrick dot com, slash fuck bands to learn more and donated it. Also crickets go to legal plug, has strict scrutiny, will be recording, live at howard university and you can now join.

live stream on june knife at one p m eastern, join hosts leah, litman, Kate, shaw and melissa murray with president indirect or council of the naacp legal, legal defence, fungi, nelson and crickets one shaniqua mcclendon mcclelland, as they took all things supreme court, get your lives tickets today today by heading two cricket, dot com, slash, strict, live and get a twenty five percent discount. If you're a friend of the pod subscriber citing stuff, I sketched the news. The republican presidential field will expand to a full dozen this week with official announcements from mike pence chris, Kirsty and someone named doug bergamo, who is apparently the governor of north Dakota for two terms: tutor either google- and I did not know that reelected new hampshire governor

chris sununu has decided against running, which is a blow to the tens of sooner for president fans out there said the republican national committee is trying to put a tent on the circus. They just announced that, in order for candidates to qualify for the first debate, which we now know will be hosted by fox and held in Milwaukee on august, twenty third candidates have to meet the following criteria. They have to pull consistently above one percent in a combination of state and national polls. They have to have at least forty thousand donors across twenty states and It's the pledge to support the eventual republican nominee all right. Let's start with the debate criteria who's already in who do you think's worried, and how might this whole thing affect the debates and the race tommy, so I mean, I think, trump's into sentences- and you know, pence is probably inhaler they're. All in ah also

vivid rama swami. His already requalify ease they re. All the grounds for rapid, based on only or donor saw, the polling has shown that he would qualify yet another changes, and then they said that they have reached. The donors. Are people who reach the donor threshold, at least what they ve said? Is I d santa's, hayley and vivid groundswell me, so I think the criteria its understandable. You don't want any person who just says hey I'm running for president. I want to build a brand for myself and sell a book to be able to beyond that stage, but I think they have the impasse de nationalizing, these campaigns incentivize, seeing these candidates, who do a ton of appearances on fox news or the bench a pure.

Show or other rightwing outlets rather than grinding and at an early stage and talk and real voters. They also force candidates who don't have a big donor list to spend tons of money acquiring donors. I was talking to a friend to you both know well, who worked on the democratic race and twenty twenty about these thresholds because did the republicans basely stall, the democratic version of the debate thresholds and he said Pauline dora thresholds. Make me want to throw myself off a bridge and too it's, because the thresholds ratchet up and up and up over time, yeah, and so that these candidates would learn about some new donor threshold and have to tear up their entire plan to focus on we on getting. Small dollar donors and not talking to voters spending five hundred grand on facebook adds further. You can get up. Like sixty five thousand donors or whatever the threshold. Now I know who you're talking to the perverse incentives that are not really good. I mean they don't like you're. Not educating Voters you're just gonna meeting. They aren't your Dnc thresholds while that ready

is that, oh, you have enough support out there in the country that you deserve a place on the stage when, in practice for a lot of them, it's they spend a ton of money, poured per donor to acquire the reach the threshold, because the threshold exists yeah, I'm not sure. I think it might be it it's. It doesn't seem like a a great set of criteria, but I wonder if it's the best of a bunch of bad options like if you want to set some criteria, you don't want to just do polling, because new polls are polls and they're, not always accurate, especially national polls, in a primary. So then where'd you go after that donors, I guess, makes sense, especially there's a lot of grassroots donors. These days, I don't know it's very imperfect, so we know that trumped santas, hayley and vivid rama swami are in If now TIM scott is, is fine on polling he's built a big fundraising base, so he's probable by attempting to make it your boy him may again, I can set it on the fence, maybe he's our pants, who is fine on polling, but very if he on fund raising and hasn't committed to supporting trump

you have to commit to not produced adding a non rnc debates. That's also what cause has trump taken? The loyalty pledge, no a giant fight last time, trump's going to take it in and lie like last time right. So that's fine for him. I think it's tougher for both pence and christy cause he's also going to have the same problem on both the supporting trump thing and the fundraising. It's tough on pens and christie, because part of their whole argument, especially christie, is trump is unfit to be president, so if they say they're going to commit to supporting the nominee to get on the debate stage, but then they lie, I wonder if it's harder for them than trump. You know it's also like it's a very fuzzy like what what is is it? It depends on the land which is why, of course, amateur sport. The nominee, I'm gonna be the nominee right, and then I got this thing right now and then a hutchinson also unable he's a merry elder. Also in the bubble, though, Larry elder has a big fundraising base because he ran in California and then definitely in trouble, doug

Doug everywhere you go for environmental is not what it is, the area of transport, and yet we are speaking to you on the first day of the dog bargain. You know when I like, I went before us. You know me the water. Russia's out is that where we are not very are in the burden wave the water is leaving. There are both sitting on fuckin rocks. The bergen wave comes to hit us the other famous dug in politics. we got em half in bergen. Did you as well His little ran up and bio video. You bet, I did mister, it's kind of interesting story. I read about it. sorry, but I don't see the video as one donor yeah not kidding five bucks to get on that stage.

Born in north Dakota. He got really rich cause. He literally like saw the family farm to invest in some software company made hundreds of millions of dollars. Just this word for word from the fucking video, the elected twice I mean like by above the he made up his by movement. We are here to give people information hits comparable dry. I watched the fucking video region, you're, saying I have everything you're saying right now I now didn't wiki and because I did that to get angry when I first heard about him and his whole pitches. Like he's running he's areas, a conservative, north Dakota, who's running against polarisation in partisanship, bullshit he's a softer, exact migrants in oh. He wants to do a business first message focused on the economy and energy, but then, like I looked into a little bit and it's like. Oh, he also signed a six week. Abortion ban and made gender affirming cares for minor a crime yeah. So it's like

and the teaching of critical race theory. He in twenty twenty. He seems to push back on the party for some of the more outrageous anti lgbt things they were saying within the north north dakota gp, but in then later on, he signed all these horrible bills yeah it's I I was thinking that that just like looking at this and this wonderful field coming into view for us and a big deal, from twenty sixteen to now is twenty. Sixteen, there really was underneath all the kind of aesthetic nonsense and bullshit There was actual policy ships happening as republican party move from you know, Paul ryan conservatism to the kind of like you know, right wing, anti, immigrant kind of making that more central antiques, anti trans anti gave a kind of more fishes, take version. The trumpets doing and all these people have fully in blood braced that platform they're just campaigning on us that x,

it is going to do it with a nicer touch, which is obviously not enough. Did you see trumps quote on the risk reverberated through a field expanding? What is it you said coming to the race. You know they're pulling at one percent two percent- I don't know what they're doing they must know something, but I know actually some of them are pretty stupid running for Appian cabinet may be the hour, but some of them won't happen. I can tell you that's so funny pretty spot on. I asked in the sun, thursday, but pence and christie are you think it's possible that vivek ramaswamy finishes ahead of them? I think it's a while I just like. Is it possible that

that vivek gets more than three present? Yes, it's like they're they're, so mismatched, here's what I can't figure out either we haven't talked about the fact that, and although we've mentioned it before, the trump might skip the debates skip the primary debates, you're Chris Christie again into this race cause you're like I just need to get on that debate stage and I'm going to kick the shit out trump. I don't care for republican voters, don't like me, I'm I'm interest on a kamikaze and to fuck up trump and then trump doesn't appear in the debates. Then, what's chris Christie, and then he doesn't appear to do that. You've got two problems here. Yeah chris Christie is doing this kind of debate. Pugilist new hampshire strategy, which I don't have a lot of faith in that pence, at least your pence. I think Paul had him at five percent in iowa and he's gonna go after the kind of white christian evangelical nationalists that make up a lot of the caucus goers. In I was, I think, look I don't have a lot of money on on pence, but I think he has a better theory of the case and Chris currency elderly feel like I'm. In outer space, we've seen Chris Christie debate, he debated throughout the campaign and then he lost prevent, like he just

completely like it doesn't we didn't? We ve seen him do this. He debated trump several times. The only time you ever got traction is when you stop debating trump and debated marker rubia for five seconds, and that was his big moment and then he was gone. I just think that yeah, I agree with all that. Having pensive constituency is like non existent right, he does the right thing at the last possible. The moment that makes the whole trump base so angry at him that some of them wanted to literally kill him, but for people who don't like trump pence, also stood by for four years and applauded everything that trumped it so like. Where is that? Where is the pence supporter, I dunno, I dunno the pit, I guess the pen supporter as someone who loved everything, Donald trump did up until he tried to overturn the election and the

inmate then they got off the bus. He just bank it on the sort of far right evangelicals and Chris Christie is just as full of shit. I mean he nearly died because trump gave him kovac during debate. Prep for donald trump, so trump almost killed both of them they're, both neverland another back yeah. It was like that it's a deeper like none of them are willing to make a real case against trump because they don't want to alienate the voters. They know they need, which is the problem of the core of all this. I think christie. May I thank her may make a real. I would wish I met case against AL trombones. Don't owe that it will not do anything or that'll make this day, but he can't but the best. But the thing is he cat? You know he started me. The case is predicated on a lie right because he says a thing like. If I knew then what I knew now, I would never have gone so far along with it. He was there at all, but in time he had to say look, I have to say I fucked up you know you're done like so it's only goes into bay present. Twenty succeeds in debate prep in twenty twenty. So these fully on board to the bitter end

and then trump almost kills him he's still onboard, and then he decides to run for president and that's when he discovers that trump is unfit. Is that that's the problem? I think it was the the a b c green room that that pushed him after the after the overturning and suddenly he's on panel, these criticizing dracula getting a little old celica a couple of granola bars in my pocket on my way home people are liking me again from Boston to washington and apple from this bowl so all the other major republican candidates were- and I owe this weekend- senator joanie Ernst annual first ride didn't realize the roast and ride was an annual event. Now you I never heard about a big on the black, with the exception of donald trump. He wasn't there. He was very busy posting. He congratulated his friend Kim Jong, IL forgetting north korea elected to the executive board of the world health organization as too many questions there. He also complain that is about to get indicted again this time for hoarding, possibly disseminating and refusing to return, classified information

and he also accused he was an hour a week before accusing too many people of over using the term woke without defining it just hours before he over used the term work with finding it lets. Listen, it's got sick and I don't like the term work. As I hear work, work work it out suggests a term that use have the people can't even defined it. They don't know what it is things going over the military with the woke and all this nonsense and not fuck did not learning to fight and protect us from some very bad people. They want to go work. They want to go. There was ten hours after purse com. go here before we get to the work of fun. Let's start with the biggest from news: the grand jury in the classified documents. Investigation is set to reconvene this week. Trumps lawyers have to our meeting today with special council jack smith and his team, which is often the last step before an indictment, so far doesn't seem like the hush money indictment has affected the race at all. Do you guys think that being charged with hoarding classified in? For me,

and could be different, I mean I. I think that I would be worried about this one because it seems to go, have gone beyond just hoarding classified information and to deepen to obstruction of justice land, because you have all these leaks about obstruction of justice charges lying the f b. I there's allegations that trump essentially told his staff to hide documents from the f b I before they serve the subpoena and that the maybe be videotape of these staffers doing it. There's the fire merthyr had the fire drill to there's the puzzle of crime. Dresser has everyone back to one deo j, pierced attorney, client privilege between trump and one lawyer, because trump might have lied to his lawyer in furtherance of a crime, there's apparently a tape, the audio of trump talking about a classified war plan with how to attack run with some guys doing a book about mark meadows. As one

as and then and then is it not so that now would be it. That's like a separate chart like disseminating classified information is like a separate charge than just keeping it and obstructing the investigation. I mean there's just a lot of threads here. There's the the special counsel's looking into trump's dealings with seven foreign countries, including the saudis in the? U a e which makes it seems like a suggestion that he's getting paid for this information. So there's a lot of smoke here and then cnn reports today that and sadly there haven't, you have been a pool leak, am our logo and wind. You know where the water from the pool went to the server room with awe of the video tat bats. Awesome. Isn't that a shame dont, you hate it when you drain swat when europe accidentally when we heard your pains the years, zurbaran god. What are the other things, because all the proof that he is innocent, that, on those tapes, that's worth that's worth,

in Hillary with the hammer and the bleach bit yeah, that was a wiping was like a braindead nixon. That was. Is that it's a yes, whilst I'm curious what happens with that? One? I'm excited hear more about that. I, like that. I realize it's tempting to believe that nothing matters with regards to trump. There was a navigator poll from a few weeks ago. Sixty five percent of all americans now think trump has committed a crime that is up a net twelve points from just the one, before and that is just about the alvin brag hush many case a by the greatest shifts came from independence and republicans, particularly Republicans, who do not identify, as very conservative, also say, you know. Look we ve been talking about trumps, various and sundry crimes for the better part of seven years now

Something does change when he does the walk into the court room and they see the photo of him behind a desk. There are certain things that just look pretty bad and one of them is a courtroom photo like we can talk all we want about like how we think you know whether or not this is different for people than the hush money payments. I don't know, but what will be different is all these different cases, starting to lead to procedures and trials and trump having to show up places and that being with the footage, is like nobody likes that. I also think the story is easier to understand as a crime and just lay out there's. You know it's not just Biden pants Oh, they had classified documents. Doesn't everyone have classmates now? This is like if we are getting into security, camera footage of security, camera footage, stealing war plans, sharing them obstructing justice like this is it's easier understand that I will also say that to take care of the mark meadows, biographer elsa love it like also like the war plans- it's like, oh, my god, they're going to bomb us or VM,

also the navigator pull you guys, remember the scene internal. Have you heard about that lately, the news recently sixty six percent in that whole said the trumps clay during the scene, in town hall that he was allowed to take classified docks, raises doubts about him being the republican domini, including seventy two percent of independence and forty percent of republicans and that is about the same number, who had doubts about his proposal to pardon january sixth riders doubts about that, making him the gnp nominee as well. They were like it was those two plus him bringing back child separation, family separation- that were the three biggest concern for voters from the scene in town hall, and why up to like sixty six percent say that gives them some concerns about andrew up so that the whole scene in town hall? Oh no, is a travesty of democracy while it had a bunch of people. Thank you know what this guy maybe shouldn't be.

Isn't it yeah we're going to talk about the nikki haley version of this? But just you know it is amazing, just how self fulfilling all of this is righteousness. There was like we've, had a fucking national debate, not about the horrible things trump said in that town hall, but about whether or not the townhall should have taken place. You watched five fucking paragraphs from Nicky hayley at her town hall, which none of us happened until was over and it's just as much amiss. Information is just as much hate filled by about trans people in immigrants in law. eyes about crime and all the rest? No, not a lot of people, anybody, nobody minds, the say it's Its upper thought there really go around. We got down to just wells or religion does jessica, media stories about the media yeah, it's it's not that

It breaks through. Everybody is very upset about the media breaking into the media, media media media and what about from your stomachs? Everybody look up a bunch of candidates, just telling you what they do if they were elected to lead. The controversy that would also the the classified information- sorry I mean you- can tell that story in one photo of all these documents lying on the floor at his country club, slash house, it's not a complicated one and again just keep an eye on this foreign money. Foreign business dealings. Part of this investigation Jared Kushner, got two billion from the saudis for his investment company. Even though he's never did before in his life the Saudi owned live golf tour is dumping money at trump properties like there's something weird going on. I have a question for you if I might have answer if it turns out that jared kushner and the saudi deal is and how many bonus episodes are we getting a bonus up on the table? Now, I didn't go in my case.

my council speak here. Comes the roads ran back, so speaking of seeing the world is more, simple. Republican candidates hit trump for congratulating north Korea's murderous dictator. Barely, the news, I always off you stories about it. Why not do to reporters and republican voters not care? Do we just expect this kind of behaviour from trump? Now Could it become an issue? It is such a weird story. A horrible dictator was elected to the board of the world health organization yeah. That was my first crush it. If I want to tell everybody, I'm going to look into this for tomorrows I'll get back to you as cool. I think that yeah, I think, look the the trump love affair with Kim Jong is kind of priced. In I'm glad all these republicans criticized him for it. I do think look jake tapper to his credit as nikki haley about this at the town hall. So I think where there was an opportunity to advance the story, they try, but it is weird. A trump is obsessed with his love letters with Kim jong on the somebody

within the meeting they had at the dmz, even though literally nothing out accomplished and north korea's nuclear weapons programme is far further along today than when those meetings happened, but he doesn't care it's all about the optics. I also think that they're not but republicans quite quite making the the best. He asked him on this like because what trumps likes to say about this as yet I am friends with Kim jong un and I'm friendly with putin, and that keeps us safe because they know me and they don't wanna fuck with me and I'm good friends with them. I have good relationships and what the republican candidates, what his opponent should be saying, is like this murderous dictator who regularly threatens the united states of america with nuclear weapons has the trump wrapped around his finger, you know make it about. You always have to make it about like strength and weakness and and turn it into a weakness for him and instead they're. Just like that you shouldn't do that? It's all very subtle The same reaction like their quickly even dissent as I am surprised that some would say something like that men and it transposed

you are. The broadest sense is a tiny italian fashion. Dicks like that, like they're, just there so subtle with this fuckin guy. That's what they it's unbelievable there's. Just no one is bringing anything this fighting, unbelievable and okay. Well, I've checked up on my notes. This episode, speaking of speaking of anti war, sailors, why do you guys think trump hit other republicans for over using the term woke, which is a term he uses all the time? Is there anything to that. Is that just him? My my sincere pet theory is that trumps saw some of the coverage after the descent. As ilan debacle, talked about dissent as being to online and that's how his brain translated it? That's I that's really what I think it is. I thought it was. I think I think that could be some of it there's also there were. I forget, who's been asked to define woke before There are some other candidates restful or some other replete with J tapir yeah air hayley did but then even like republicans in congress have been asked before

of them can and they none of them can in their sort of like embarrassing clips about, and I wonder if he saw though yeah syro clothes it as I do. That seems bad. Was it made him a cartel, or someone like that they got say? Oh, oh, oh, no, the it's like make him a cardinal, its bethany Mandela better and I realized I was asked about. It- had a trouble defining and still she entered defence you'd written entire book about it. That's why would she be able if you divide it, I think the trumpets decided to scientists is getting some traction just yelling about these things It's his whole identity is defined as being making Florida the place where awoke goes to die to the point where ron de santis, his wife was wearing a black leather jacket, have had a photo of a picture of florida on the back of it and, it said, were woke, goes to die despite the fact, those eighty five degrees at this. Ah, this roast and ride, or whatever, by the way mike pence, was, was

wearing like a sons of anarchy, halloween costume. Did you see him? It was really embarrassed like it was very awful. It was something so I I suspect, trump saw dissenters having some success in this lane and decided to whine about it and be like I don't even care about that term anymore, I mean dissenters is our is also like sounding like a fucking parody of himself when he's doing that, he has that riff that everyone noticed again. This weekend, though, he's been doing it for. weeks out, which is like we will fight the woke in the street, and we are quite the wrong. Why can they classrooms we'll have, though it woke it near amusement park, so fuckin, embarrassing, ay, ay ay, like a reprisals speech about fighting the literal look third reich about you know I don't know kids wearing tee shirts. He doesn't like wealth. Fortunately, in response to this trump riff about people saying woke too much to scientists, was ass, to try to define woke himself, and he also tested out a new line about how republicans need a president who can serve two terms in order to get done what they want to get done, whistles

both moments when we know and will give a former health romances em it's about putting merit and identity. Politics is basically along. The truth is that as an institution that is corrupted alot of institutions, so you ve gotta be like the work we have done it in order we proudly consider selflessly. Where would you really need to ensure that we have a two term president to be able to see this? To a conclusion, I mean you do one turn a reverse it. When they come in, you can't have it be reversed, so trump's response of courses. I only need six months to fix everything. Why does he need? Do terms and their the santa comes back, and why don't you do it is first tour either mix it up. Do you think any of these neither of these two santas attacks has any potential to draw blood. No, the term thing is stupid to me

I don't understand that what a waste of time it's it's it's also like I was. I was on the fence about it, actually, because my first reaction was tommy's, which is to say so point is trump would be amazing, but he can only do it before yours. You need somebody else's kind of back to the part of the case that a lot of the republicans have been making, which is trump, is great, but we need to do something different and like, oh, so if it was if he was eligible for it. So that's the problem and the problem is you said he can't do it as long as you just you want someone that that great to be there for longer just little been embarrassing, though there is something about dissent is calling him a lame duck. They think account like we do want to elect a lame duck. We don't want to elect a lame duck. There is a way in which he was saying. If you look at the longer, the santas quote about wanting to

somebody new. It's like we need somebody who's going to hit the ground running on day, one who can be focused and disciplined in attacking the bureaucratic state. That's a multi year process we Can'T- and so he kind of put it into a larger argument around trump's weaknesses that I thought could be something yeah. I think that the whole of his arguments seem too cerebral for me and too cerebral, for I would argue much of the republican base. First of all, defining woke, always tricky when you define a word by using the word multiple times he's ikea awoke as we gotta fight woke, woke as a war on the truth and poland uniform, electoral, nor cultural works as a regular people are always sought. Our cultural marxism yeah. It's interesting like at least at its he's, really ready with that answer. It's not an answer fur. It's not an answer fur. Normal designs of her ass. We have right, but it has a graffiti. A conservative pollster pointed out that, like many of the top answers when he's hunt republican primary voters- but things are concerned about involve the word woken some days there all channeling this scene-

fear. People that are different times changing, etc. Just like it's like it's not new. it is cerebral and it is too sophisticated, but I will say the way he described. It is probably the closest thing to like. I like, I think, a sincere explanation for how they would define it each other, you don't I mean like that. I have answered. I dont know where cultural marxism is. yeah. I mean I like the way, but they issue is now right leg it, but it is a wing towards this is a kind of far left collegiate academic ideology that is infecting our institutions. That makes generally more important than these other qualities. Right like that even set or other like. I don't know it, putting merit an achievement behind identity politics as it with the focus on me.

yeah, but I think it means something to them with me because it because it's a dog whistle well yeah, I mean, I think part of it- is a dog whistle about gay issues at the dog whistle about affirmative action is a dog whistle Randy I like, but but like that makes set. That's like it's coherent in there actually were a lot of these voters. It's like much simpler, they're, like trump trump doesn't sound. Trumped trump seems, like he's an honest liar, doesn't sound like a typical politician run into sounds like a typical politician. I think that the cultural marxism is an attempt to reach the voters who think that christian values are being removed. in schools and negative media and everything else, and I think trump doesn't know how to blow that dog whistle or play that note, because he's not religious at all and doesn't understand those people, and that was pence job. I also think to the two terms thing: I'm trying to figure out the trump supporter who's having second thoughts, because trump can only serve for years because they think what they'll look at both trump and dissenters at they'll. Look at both of them and think I like trump better than dissenters

So, although for trump for the next four years, and then, although for dissent, is for the warriors and her out for them, leave young. There was. I think that this is why it seems that such a high approval rating in many poles higher than donald trump they liked assent, is just fine just like don from better. There was a. There was a line in one of the stories about the the the one term argument that I thought gave away the game a little bit, which is for people who, I think was actually mick mulvaney. Who said this? Ah, it was for people that want to move on from trump, but want to be able to say it to their pro trump friends in a way that doesn't get them in trouble. They can say they're, worried about the terms we shall see a lecture yet, which is tells you how weak there's an anti trump coalition areas. So there's also open question as to whether to scientists is like debility argument is getting a bit tripped up by his culture work stream ism we talked about the six week. Abortion

In a couple of weeks ago, I he recently signed a ban on gender, affirming care for young people. That is also affecting trans adults, because it prohibits you from getting care from physicians assistance, which, at least in florida, approximately eighty percent of trans people do, and so now Florida has the most extreme trans ban in the country. Missouri was going to do something like this. I think he brought that up a couple weeks ago and it that fell apart. So now florida is the most extreme. Do you think that that helps to santas with republican primary voters or

Is this like the six week abortion ban, which he is avoiding talking about the servers? What these things are like each other? Ah more than just politically like this, these laws around restricting care even for adults, take a page from the anti abortion laws right because they don't, they don't put in place an outright ban, but they put in place onerous. You know scientifically unjustifiable restrictions on care, so you need to have a doctor sign off. You have to do it in person. All these things are just supposed to make it more difficult, including raising the stakes for doctors by making it easier to sue doctors like a lot of steps like that that have been used in the anti abortion movement there here the times. I believe talk to a bunch of voters at this iowa roast and right of vat and was interesting even there, you start to see people saying hey, I'm like frustrated. No one said healthcare like they're. Only talking

These issues have Nicky heavily saying that our trans athlete in sport is the most pressing women's issue of our time and the fact that, even amongst these far right, loons that are show enough for this fuckin event were might pence wears a costume gets on a motorcycle even for them there. Like. Can we talk about something else? Besides fuckin trans people for five, seconds. I think tells you that these people are a bit out of touch and because the campaign is so about aesthetics and they can't make actual policy distinctions and they're afraid to go after trump on the merits. They all end up, trying to outdo one another on these fucking issues and pushing themselves further their way forget the median voter, even the median republican, but well that's because there, in this echo chamber of like the most partisan, online voices, you know it it to an extent it can happen on it. It happened in twenty twenty in the democratic side when certain issues right and certain time, and but it it it's really bad on the republican side. Now, where all the

republican candidates. All they're listening to is like what's happening on the daily wire, what's happening in steve, Bannon's podcast, what's happening on fox news was happening in prime time right and they think that the people who were talking about these issues there represent all the voters and by the way, does represent some of the most committed activists, some of the most committed grassroots donors, but like like you, like you, said it's, it's not even the median republican vote greatly even republican voters that are consuming a lot of this content and are maybe angry about woke, stuff or or have been made fearful of the city's because of reports on crime. They still have car payments, they still have credit cards. They still have healthcare issues, like those issues continue to exist because those issues continue to exist. Yet I think this is a trend for dissent as now, because, initially like that that the they said critics of the don't say, gay law were being hysterical. These are just the others, is focused on third graters and to kindergartens right, and then they expanded that law.

And now they are restricting reproductive health, education for six or twelve rules. Adi claim that the Florida book bans were out these extreme examples that no young kids should ever be reading, and then we read about amanda gormans book being banned. A poem she read at the inauguration, thou these restrictions on and transgender kids are making it possible for adults get treatment. I mean the six week abortion ban, the fight with disney like it is painting a picture of in credit we extreme governor in rather santas, unlike deep big government overreach into people's lives in ways that I think will sound

to most people even most republicans, and I think that the way trump is handling it and probably will handle. It is not necessarily by saying what Democrats would which is like this is extreme and dangerous these positions, but he's going to try to be like skies a weirdo is because what you all thought before I came along that the republican party at its worst was a little weird little extreme will to religious. Then I came along divorced. All the time probably paid for a bunch of abortions. Myself don't give a shit about any of this culture stuff right up, don't like immigrants for sure, but on the on the culture stuff trump was sort of. Like you know, governed horribly,

governed horribly, but at least his rhetoric right wasn't. His extremism is, and I think he's going to do that with the santas. I think he's gonna try to paint him as an extreme weirdo weirdo, and also just there is a pretty strong, libertarian streak in the republican party and all of a sudden. The florida government is reaching into all these different parts of people's lives, whether your child or an adult, then it's just weird and entirely unnecessary, and I don't think this helps to santas with the anti trump or beyond trump republicans that he absolutely needs. That also includes a lot of donors. These people are think about electability. A lot and and they hear the set about two santa's, just like they heard, but the abortion Ben they're not gonna like that, and then the question is: does it peel away any of the maghreb diehards from tromp, which it remains to be seen? Maybe it does on the margins, but for diseases to pull this off? He needs like

all the or at least most of the anti trump people most of the people concerned about electability, and he needs a big chunk of the maga right a he needs. He needs everything to go well and he. This is just like pissing too many people off yeah right. You have to start like forget the mega diehard right. Let's a trump takes them out or they're. Just with him right, let's say that's a third of these primary voters. He needs to build a coalition that brings together all the people that have never liked trump and never wanted trump to win with and then a bunch of people that have liked trump all along continue to like trump. I don't agree with a lot of the criticisms of him thing. It's all overblown just want basically trump without a lot of the chaos and

I don't, I think, the hardest coalition to assemble, which someone needs to think and be trump, is the evangelical christians who have never been to high on trumpet went along in a voter form and the anti trump college educated crew like getting both of those groups of voters. I think it is hard for republican. Yet I also also do think to a lot of the on average articles has gotten pretty muddled because, as that's become, basically an identity or a brand like more people have chosen it and a kind of expands it to mean kind of I'm, a good republican and a lot of different ways. Yet, as you end up with like I said, it is very very like a curious group of people, first of all like why, wouldn't they stick with trump, the most successful

anti choice, president right? Ah yeah, I read this great book is called the flag on the cross and is about white christian nationalism and the the strains of religion and anti democratic movements in this country and the way they come together to tell people how to live their lives. I think that's like a powerful chunk of the republican base that trump has captured, but that pence into santas are both competing for now and another sign that dissenters is having some trouble is issues with grass roots enthusiasm, so he had forty thousand donors last quarter, who gave an average of more than two hundred dollars per donor. That's pretty high for comparison, Bernie sanders. Average donation was around twenty six dollars. How much you think this matters further it does. I think it's indication of potentially less broad based enthusiasm for his candidacy. The other thing we don't know if you can get

Thirty, three hundred dollars in the primary and then thirty three hundred in the general election dissent is this team is accepting money for both the primary in the general. So we don't know how much of that eight point. Two million is actually lie up for the general election and have to return it literally. If you, when the nomination, so eight point two million. It's it's, it's a good chuck, a change, but you know you Much rather have many many more donors. The way Bernie sanders had who gave you a lower amount of money, so you can go back to them again, cause that is the lowest hanging. Fruit for fundraising is hitting up someone who already wanted to give you money. Yeah I mean it. It is early in it's the first quarter for him, but usually challengers to frontrunners, who are going to have a shot, tend to have a lot of grassroots energy behind them

obama vs Hillary sanders, vs Clinton sanders and even warren in two thousand and twenty and most of those folks still didn't win right. Obama was the only one in that group that did so. It's if you don't have the grass at least the grassroots support and you're a challenger who's, a long shot against a and like the establishment favorite, which trump is, and I think it's even higher. Known, was what happens next quarter, but not great just enter the ride like cash, though like to have two hundred in dollar sitting with super pack. They say they say they. Budgeting to two hundred million dollars spent super pack spends are less efficient. When you talk about media, buys for boring reasons that we don't have to get into. So you know, look at JEB bush and the way it also worked out for him. Yet most of the money in his super pac. In his campaign, not less spending. So to say this we have a lot of money, but a yeah, the few enthusiasm peace, a sort of

I just think it is rather mandatory. What's the enthusiasm, because, by the way ape what a twenty million, like that's a massive amount to get right out of the gate, I do think it's, as will there be enthusiasm behind it over time or does it represent like a fail, This can be positive, Mary, is broadly by article best thing about the summer getting to do all your favorite indoor things outside sharing meals, watching movies fallen asleep on the sofa accidently everything's, better l, fresco articles, curated catalogue of outdoor furniture is here to help you do all your favorite. The summer. They get everything you need to really make things around from outdoor sofas, dining sets to day core article believes and delightful design for every home. and thanks to their online only model. They got some really delightful prices. To tell me tell me more wealth, the curate assortment of mid entry, modern coastal industrial, scandia and bobo designs makes furniture shopping simple, like matin scanty yeah. They have imagined collection. Articles offers fast, affordable shipping

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here. Our voting here are some of the highlights a six week ban theoretical, came to your desk when you sign. Why why I will answer that when you answer when will ask calmly and Biden if they would agree to thirty seven weeks. Thirty, eight weeks, thirty nine weeks, then I'll answer- and I know that trump and descendants of both said we're not going to deal with entitlement reform. Will all your is leaving for the next president, that's leaving a lot of americans in trouble. I think it's important to be honest with the american people we are in this situation. Don't lie to me. And say: oh, we don't have to deal with entitlement reform. Yes, we do Yes, we do it's the reality, I'm always going to tell the truth, isn't going to hurt yes, but for our kids they know they're not going to get it anyway. I mean the idea that we have biological boys. being a girl sports, it is the women's issues of our time. How are we supposed to get our girls used to the fact that biological boys are in their locker rooms

We wonder why a third of our teenage girls seriously contemplated suicide last year, so it seems like mickey. You use trying to combine pre twenty sixteen conservatism with fate a pretty pretty lame mega impression, you guys think that's a winning strategy. I find that it one of the most sort of pathetic displays. I've seen like from a major candidates, unbelievable being fucking, refusing to have an answer an abortion, but having an answer on cutting social security and medicare, then having the fucking audacity to claim which, by the way like the mental health crisis for teens and teen, girls is a huge and important and like serious, fucking issue, any idea that you're going to lay that at the feet of like trans fucking teens is so disgusting. It is disgusting, it's disgusting, it's also just silly and nonsensical. The idea that, like

teenagers are committing suicide because they are seeing trans women in a locker room. Even people are Hi trans, probably don't believe yeah me he's got the. What is woke me in question and she said basically, it's like communities like the trans community, pushing their views on everyone else, though she tried to have more of a simple answer. She also tried to straddle this tone of being compassionate in trying to listen to the other side while having our own people. An abortion was like the number one example like she said she refused to answer whether she should poured a six week, abortion ban, she refused a common and fifteen weak abortion. She also said I don't wanna demonize people who are pro choice. I want to come to there are in degree and stuff. So it was a weird effort to try to straddle these issues. Many of us, via she gave a speech about abortion a couple weeks ago and, and the whole point of the speech was, I think, simply to say like to highlight the fact that she is the lone woman in the field and that is sort of the

I have a brand around being pro life about being anti abortion, without actually taking a position on the issue. She is a whole speech on the subject. Does not come out in favor of any particular policy continues to avoid having a position any particular policy. It's just like to what end I wanted to pick those clips, because I really think she hit the trifecta there an abortion. She sounds like a typical politician by dodging the question. Just doesn't answer the question which voters don't she managed to take the Paul ryan position on entitlements? That is not only on pillar with the general electorate, but now unpopular with the republican base, and then her trans answer is guaranteed to push away the anti trump republicans that she absolutely needs. If she has any prayer of competing in this socially, just like three things, just just fucked it all up, while the good news

her as this was an opposite in n b, a finals game, so that I heard that I was like. I meant I'm not going to TIM Scott, this ship, but I daresay I watch I watch. I watch very low expectations and I did think by the end of it the last questioner, complemented her for taking a more positive tone and she went with a couple contrast that I dont think we're like- maybe electronically beneficial but were interested. She criticise trump on a kim jong, IL comments. She would it's pretty critical if she strongly support of giving ukraine weapons, which is a strong contrast from trump and the santas, and she sort of overtly hit the santas and then the social security medicare part was weird. She came out for raising the retirement age for future social security recipe,

it's which I dunno. What is the pulling on that terrible? Just talked about like raising the sheepdog about, like her own kids, should know now that they're not going to get so scared sixty five. That should be what I'd sixty seven suggested. It is it's the it's the it's the it's, the pre twenty, sixteen tea party version of the world because you can't raise the cap and tax, rich people more right- and so that's and ate, and she's a hawk right and so she's, please basically the like, but the Paul ryan george w bush party right like she still got that that's who she is and yet she knows the to compete. She needs to do a mega presentations of that's where the train thing comes from an that's where the non answer on the abortion man comes from. What would a syllogism so silly about the whole thing is even Kevin Mccarthy, while cynical fuckin people has figured out not to talk about social security and medicare like like dumber politicians, the Nicky hayley have crack this fucking code and the idea that, like she's gonna, be like mendacious on all these subjects, but forever reason she civilization isa. Emma shriek

or on twitter, learn medicare, but I won't tell you what I think on abortion is not actually. Abortion been in. My state, of course, is not true that it is actually not true where we don't need to make these draconian cuts. We can obviously affords keeping people so security medicare. So it's like I'm in a lot like every piece of it, as is as misinformation, she's pretty critical of the santas on the disney fight too, she said I took fifty grand from them and appointed a bunch of disney people to board positions now he's using the state to go after them like we shouldn't do that. One thousand interesting show told the full story about taking down a confederate flag after the am church shooting, which I just that was an interesting choice, because most republicans like to pretend rachel divisions don't exist in this country anymore. They you're not allowed to talk about it, but she kind of lead with it. Did she do the whole, like? I remember in her by a video in her announcement video she sort of like glide

over it like she mentioned the flag, but she didn't. She didn't want to say racism or how she got into it pretty deep and she led her whole thing with like a rant about earmarks about her pre twenty. Sixteen the same as she is talking about being an accountant, not a what she took out, the dissenters hit on disney shake that adverse been a couple of weeks ago. I always just like, when they're too afraid to do a similar hat hit on trump directly, so they just kind of go after each other kind of try to seem tough with each other. The best way to make him the nominee. The thing that I think connected her with the audience is they talked about how her been is about to deploy for a year overseas to africa is in the military in there's a military families message and a veteran's messages. I just I seem to endear her with the people s as some of the nastier rigour, one thought him scott one for Nicky, hayley phenomenon of our entire bergen bergen bergen burden is burger bundle got me diversion of highly trained that were heavy trick. Lest I about Joe Biden, who took a victory lap after so carefully

who took a victory lap after signing the bipartisan budget. Deal that saved us from default President delivered an oval office address on Friday night. One of his super packs is running a new era the deal and his advisers told reporters at the associated press and the washington post that the way Biden handle but debt ceiling negotiations affirms their reelection strategy of marginalizing mega republicans, while cutting bipartisan deals with non mag. Republicans, here's a clip from binds oval office speed a fellow americans I ran for president. I was told the days of high prices are over. The democratic republic no longer work together, but I refuse to believe that America can never given that way of thinking passing this budget agreement was critical, face could not have been higher if we had failed

an agreement on the budget. There were extreme voices threatening take america for the first time in our two hundred forty seven, your history and the fall. So it was critical to reach an agreement and is very good news for the american people No one got everything they want, but the american people caught with a need. Why do you think the way has wanted to do an oval on this address, knowing that they are few and far between? And you don't get it all anytime you want and what you guys. Think of a speech I mean, I think, like getting this debt ceiling agreement or the budget agreement sorted out was a real accomplishment that required by partisan work in this. Probably a lot of people in the country who just want republicans democrats to work whether they hate what they usually here at washington's you're sort of speaking to them, and I think that's why the speech lead with infrastructure that ships act. He sort of did like a greatest hits of all the bi partisan work. I've done, which I think is effective three hundred and fifty laws he signed. My in laws him, he meant

at the beginning that the fundamental challenge to a speech like this is it's hard to take a victory lap on a bill that you passed in, made it less bat in the process you know what I mean like they talked about all the things he protected from republican cuts in the process. Ah, he talked about all the things going to keep fighting for. Like you know, taxing billionaires more talked about unity at the end, but I do think like they put so much time and work into. This are a lot of people who are legitimately scared, myself included that we could default. So I mean it can make sense to go out and take a victory lap. It sucks that he was on Friday night, but I'm glad the networks took it at first lol. I just think it seems like Joe Biden is genuinely proud to have made this deal and the way that the deal was made. I think if he feels it seems like he personally views it as a success for him and his sort of theory of politics. I think he's proud of the relationship

has become mccarthy and look we talked about this. Like look like a you know you can you can? You can argue like owed the geek gifts having a negotiation or or not in Dublin this in the past is a hundred paths that could have been taken to maybe avoid this altogether, but once we were in this mess, it's hard to imagine coming out of it with something much better than what we did, and I think that another place where, he seems to be genuine leaf sort of proud and then had the opportunity to walk through. Although the ways in which he sort of theory of how to govern has been pretty well fucking vindicated, given the number of things he's been able to pass, I think that the presidential bully pulpit is a not as powerful ever been as powerful as people think it is it certainly not as powerful now in an age of very fractured media, but he still has a bigger megaphone than Kevin Mccarthy. If he wants to use it- and I think they wanted to use it to make sure that Mccarthy didn't get all the credit which a lot of his report-

worse were. Oh god, I don't know if you guys, lavishing. Praise on Dan pfeiffer is a little upset about this, but there is, I was really there isn't bs, as I Kevin Mccarthy went into that room with no leverage, none of the debt, the debt fuckin could remember the fucking ticket cock. A bomb on it attached to all of our chests. That was the leverage he was interesting at tommy to your point, it's hard to like sell people on something bad that didn't happen and just like what he protected while our financial crisis, beach yeah, and so there was a lotta? There was a lot of that in the speech. Then there was one section that I thought was a little different and I really hope he sort of uses that going forward and in the reelect

he said republicans may not like it, but I'm going to make sure the wealthy pay their fair share. I proposed closing special interests: tax loopholes for big oil, crypto headphone billionaires parties, negotiations, republicans defended every single one of those loopholes, but I'm going to be coming back and with your help, I'm going to win, I think that's a grey played a frame it so cause then you're out of the here's. What I accomplish, here's what I prevent it from happening. It's I'm in a fight with these guys, it's not over yet come back and I'm going to go after those loopholes. They don't they want to protect them right, and if you do that, they're going to go after medicare, I want to protect it they're going to do this, I'm going to protect it and you make it an ongoing battle that you're engaged in and and it's on behalf of the american people, and that's why you need other next for you he I did. He was a political success for the Republicans that even the idea of tax increases being part of this negotiation budgets,

it's barely part of the conversation? It was, as always understood from the jump that that was a non starter, so frustrating it was really frustrating, and so you know it became a conversation about what the what the percentage of cut would be as opposed to how we could raise funds, especially on some of the most ridiculous fucking loopholes carried interest. real estate, whatever, what's your take on the reelection strategy that Biden's team was laying out to reporters, and he basically that he is distinguishing once again between maga republicans, who he is warning, are extreme and regular. Republicans who he keeps saying he can work with and is proving it with a lot of the these deals and by parts in legislation. My my feeling on it is that I feel like it describes- maybe a theory of governing, but doesn't actually described away. Joe Biden talks about republicans on the campaign trail because, for the most part,

he doesn't say: oh, there are some good ones, but oh, but we ve got to stop these ones. He makes the case of this is not your father's republican party says that all the time we gotta stop these mega republican, these mag extremists, I suppose there are like open when he talks about how he likes piano and everyone flips the fuck out. He does definitely say wake up. You know he can, but I'm using the larger cases about. We are fighting republican extremism. I agree that he does make his sort of pounds to the republicans that he can work with, but for the most part, it's a case. That's trying to make the republican party the maga republicans the whole fucking news cycle about trick. it mega mega mega mega mega video lagging millions megan. Trickled down and riots and economical trickle down yeah I had a similar reaction. I mean I, I don't think you can argue that the maga portion, the republican party, is isolated or marginalized. Please refer back to our primary conversation. We had thirty minutes ago, but I do think big picture. This isn't a novel argument that the ban is making he sang. Look,

stream they are. I am someone is reasonable. I can work with them. Look I did with Kevin Mccarthy. Like you know, that's got you find a sliver of republicans or independents or modern republicans to vote for you or stay home. I think that's a smart strategy. I think that's that's what it's all about! Eight minutes, partisan news junkies like us, who don't necessarily see the difference between mag republicans and the rest of the party, and I think we have a point. Most republican politicians supported donald trump supported him after he tried to overturn election inside or outside an insurrection right. But I think Biden wants to give republicans republican, leaning independents a place to go and you give them a place to go by saying: hey there, some republicans that I'll still work with. If they want to work with me, I can do it. Look. I have this record of by

It's an accomplishment, but I'm going to fight like hell to beat the extreme republicans and here's what they are planning on doing. So I do think it is a very fine line to walk, because I think, as we saw in two thousand and twenty one of the reasons I think the republicans did so well in the house. Races or even as donald trump lost, is because Biden in that campaign really said. Trump is very different than the republican party and he made trump very different. I think in twenty two he was more adept at saying. That's actually, maga republicans, it's not just donald trump. It's a lot of the party and tried to separate mac, republicans from regular republicans,

now. There is a risk that, if you're a Republican who voted for the budget deal, you can go say well, I'm not one of the extreme ones he's talking about and it might help them right. So there's a risk in that, but I do think giving republicans and republican leaning independents a place to go is why he won in twenty and why Democrats did well in twenty twenty two there's. Another sort of I think risk of some of that on on the nuance of it, which is similar to what he had to do in twenty twenty, but it's slightly different now which, as he has to basically say these republicans, are dangerous. They are extreme and together we got a lot done. You know, and there is that, like he has to be able,

to, I think part of his appeal was that he was going to bring the country back together that he was some unstable and reliable and not a partisan bomb thrower, but he has to also make this case against against the far right without losing access to those voters, yeah, and I think ultimately, he's going to be I'm the only thing standing between extreme republicans and them taking over the whole country yet and having their agenda forced on the whole country. So you you want me in there and some competition for the democratic nomination, anti vax conspiracy, theorist, Robert Kennedy junior, who just did a twitter spaces event hosted by you on mosque where he said covered. Wasn't a real disease proposed completely sealing the? U S, border with mexico, called mainstream media organizations, propaganda vessels and said that elon musk is quote a key instrument for rescuing american democracy. Kennedy was also endorsed by twitter. Founder jack

or see over the weekend, and in a recent cnn Paul received support from twenty percent of democratic primary voters with an additional forty four percent saying they would consider supporting him. So what the hell's goin out of the sky and how big of a problem? You think are of key juniors candidacy is forbidden and, by extension, America First of all, men tat kennedy name what a fuckin shadow on like Jesus Christ, wooed, it's just the name and just then in Kennedy. What do people like it so much? I don't get it you fuckin northeast dinners. You never said Kennedy won't work more on island called it's about an atlantic. Let's call people who don't consume a lot of news, limiting name, I d in its most american voters. And what do they know about politics? They know about tat

they know about it and then over obama. They know a bush. Who knows what the kennedys, canada I'm in canada. I just don't get involved in a kennedy. I've never heard. I've asked people to name five presidents, I read. Ninety percent of them would put john F Kennedy in there. That's a bad reason of over somebody. It's my fault! Welcome America! It's my fault, we're talking about there. This is your fault suck I've been it makes you feel any better. I listen to most of this twitter space, who did that schmuck david sacks, echo is shallow savers aroused aid chelsea gabert on for a while, just a guy who's who of annoying people. what I'm worried about with robert candy junior is not that you gonna beat bite in in a primary is that he might run as a third party candidate navy built to get on the ballot in places. I dont know what the path would be there, but he could syphon away both from Biden if he does in. It seems like that's why people like steve ban in our propping him up in might not just be to have an attack by the primary, although that is helpful to an obviously gets an audience, because he is

kennedy, but if you listened him speak, he sprinkles in comments about like what is dad or his father did or said was her these interesting bits of history, along with told. we made up, lies conspiracy theories and they ve accent a man he heath nido. He says that the cia killed J, f k and his father. He compared covered lockdown. Hitler's germany in it sounds like a thorough tatum enough in anti establishment enough that I think it works in plays well with the kind of bernier busts leg. Bitcoin to take down the bank's joe rogan tarsi gabert crowd that love to think that there is a grand conspiracy, that's making their life worse, and that some of the things he says you're like yes she's, like he criticised washington, is overrun by lobbyists. Real existing things. Really,

okay, this guy's got a point here, but then he talks about how he says: Zelensky is responsible for the russian invasion covered was a bio weapon. So I don't I it's not it's worrisome. It's worrisome that he's polling at twenty percent. I don't know what to do with these bad feelings. I have, but I feel that we have to take this guy seriously because I dunno, I don't want to boiler in some way, while I will say, there's, there's people that I know people that we know who I am afraid to ask about Rfk Jr, because I think they might say. Oh, he has a point. So if, if your listening and you have people like us in your life like we should give people in what he said. It's not just aunt. I've acts. He thinks that a pandemic preparation plan from twenty nineteen was part of a secret cia plain to enrich drug companies that plane that deep tabletop exercise on you to buy the one. That's right has adverse seeker plan on youtube. Ah, he thinks covered vaccines killed more people than they saved. He has thought before long before covered the vaccines cause autism, he called Tucker karlsson breathtakingly com

ages was friends with roger ales habit. This one thinks John Kerry actually won the two thousand and four it out in your mouth west, frontier enough. Adding jack dorsey is an idiot He is part of the you know the two headed hydra. That kind of I guess he's or helping run twitter now, but he's a billionaire. So he could cut a big check to a super pack that helps are of key junior and causes a bunch of trouble suggested and welfare, and there is one. Super pack has already raised five point: seven million for him, so anyone can contribute to that. Twenty percent of the forty four percent who were considering voting for him said that it was because of his name in his family, so you hoped the more information that gets out there. The bed. he did did you know he tried to run in alabama in twenty seventeen for the the Doug jonesy. I remember that I remember that papa and he lost by thirty eight points. I mean that's alabama and then here's the I think it's banned,

those people. I think what they really want is just tim, embarrassing Biden right, that's better! We and Kennedy is he's making his big play new Hampshire, where of course, in a family is even more well known and has done well. In the past. The prompt and new Hampshire is dead, set on still going first, even though the Dnc and Biden have decided the south carolina is gonna, go first, so they're gonna penalize the Dnc will penalize candidates who run in new Hampshire. They won't give him the delegates, so there's a chance that Biden doesn't file to run in new hampshire primary cause, it's against the Dnc rules, but if new hampshire holds the contest anyway and our f k competes and binds knock, beating and you could have a whole bunch of headlines about are of key junior winning the new hampshire primary yeah and actually get remember we're talking about. his owner Joe Biden, winds by about ten thousand boats, georgia, he won by about twelve thousand. That's right! We go down a long list here, how closest race will be in key swing states and, if

Our key junior is able to get a lot of press attention attacking Joe Biden in all these different ways or somehow siphoned boats away from him in a general. It's a real problem and republicans yeah. I do I just don't. I really don't know about the ballot access. I don't know we afford the general because he is gonna have to contend with no labels candidate, Joe mansion. The a guy, though by the way, was asked over the weekend. If he was gonna run as a third party, and just once again, all he said was no. Labels is trying to make sure that they have a bipartisan ticket. That's important and like this debt ceiling deal showed that die. It's not about the extremes. It's about the centre which, by the way, might have been another reason that the bite people wanted to really stake out background and the awful address because mentions hanging out there when the hour of keeping it some tell her dislike there always been fuckin. Cooks have always been rich linden, larouche tat. You know

rich out of touch wacko do people for whom politics is a joke and a game and aid they ve always been around, but man that we have these people like jack, dorsey and ilan, who have just so much power just over the conversation and are so fucking cavalier about politics, just so glib about the consequences for actual people that like jack dorsey, can that he actually thinks it is a good idea just for, I suppose, the fun of it. I should the outrage of it. A real it are of key junior in the conspiratorial mindset towards government in politics does align with the fuckin. heck bro view of the universe, go talk to these fuckin people and they have such disdain for government politics, and I think that they We should innovate our way out of every problem and the government is out too everyone like it. It does fit the jack dorsey elon musk janet. We believe this show yeah does. But us

of the robber candy junior spoke at a bitcoin conference in miami and named chat and jack's company. So you know like that. The, but I got like there's. There is a conspiratorial world view that is very closely tied to like the jail rogan tolls yoke albert world. That I think this guy speaks right too. I think you'll get on, although shows and get a big idea it is, but it is goes to that for some eighty people, rogan types, the that dorsey like politics, isn't a means of coming together to figure out how we use our limited resources to solve problems? It isn't about budget numbers and medicare outlays and who gets relief and who doesn't it? How much people pan taxes? It's an aesthetic, fucking game show that they watch from home and a buzz in and they get to play and they like certain competitors. They don't like others. It's a game, show them

and then by the way, jack. The tipping point for him seems to be Joe Biden tripping over a sand icon stage. Therefore he comes out and endorses this crazy antibiotics. Conspiracy, theirs- and I also think a big point of contention. There's gonna be that the democratic national committee is not holding democratic primary debates, because our kid, junior and marion williamson serious candidates. And so then you have a bunch of people saying just hold the debates. Why are you afraid of being which, as you know, a fuckin james vander beak? What's dozens creek frame? name was out there with a viral video that when Oliver fuck that's played oliver fox news, like yelling at the dmz, holding the baby debates- Nancy Baxter, yes,

in there in the morning doesn't want away for his latch beaver emigrants like we're james vanderbilt, and we think out of one away like there's a hawk s. Rapid infrastructure are gonna his sentence as our conservative infrastructure out there to lift up those comments in name line them. The people whom I want to you anyway. We got all the way from donald trump to Joe Biden to James Vanderbilt, my guy, when we come back. Ten paces tommy I john you worry, we go. Yes, we can. We do a quickie and phrases differently. Like a disgusting rephrase, it any other way than that incitement is called quickie. Can we do? Can we have a quickie, don't even know where a workshop they'll get your point I? Why does want to first thank the subscribers. You semi this wonderful piece of content on our community discord, go subscriber crooked dot com, such friends, please sake ign, dot, com, slash, frank cooker: dot, com, slash france! Thank you. Last week, republican congressman, I'm doing this because it's a desert thing is one more piece of news.

in congresswoman? Lauren Bova did not show up for the vote on the budget bill. Now I want to play you two quick clips. So gets a shot and a chaser here's the shot is lauren Bowker, explaining that she did not show up because she was protesting the bill. They served us up a crap sandwich call it a no show protest, but I certainly let every one of my colleagues and the You know I was against this garbage of a bill. All right- and here is the chase your way or about the sea is lower and bobo sprinting up the steps of the capital trying to get the vote in the night. Tat had happened and I'm telling her that they closed the vote yeah. We were watching for one hundred homes or sprinting literally sprinting up the steps of the capitol trying to make the vote that she said that she would protect well that it's there's no show protest vote the way you protest vote. No,

if you get to vote on every you know she, she tried to be technically accurate, thereby thing call it a no protest vote. It wasn't but you can call it that I should like to know protest vote, I'm fine with that set out in this garbage of a bill which means that you that was at their best, take I'll. I I bet I love just not getting your homework in in time and then saying it's because of climate change yep. I love it oh brutal. What are you guys make of? marjorie taylor, green and more above her buzz. You know dropping at the same time and they conduct different well trajectories that they ve taken marges is Kevin's bud mtv his use own separate ways she's just now, she's now, establishment marge. What did you see that Steve Bannon is trying to lead an effort to get a primary candidate against her his marcia green at so gay and she was like texting that gates about it. Yet she takes it magnates rejoinder and somehow that ended up in the tell tale steve if he picks this fight I'll, take the house in

But for a while and this text to a majority was she was basically a co host on the war impacts. Ass was the vanity hayloft behind and now it big break it's too bad anyway, and how we get the martyr to green, but I know laurinburg was there going in there they're just there, yet they don't like it. They think they don't like each other. It's the narcissism of small differences, they're going gonna fight in the bathroom. That's right, yeah! They do they fought each other. satellite, guitar, fisticuffs, gay and not dislike. Arguments are with their words anyway. Thank you, eliza. Thank you for that, turkey. Any time when we come back horrible, tommy talks, the washington post reporter bent it's about his new book, the big break, the parts of america is brought you by ziprecruiter. How precious is time to you and what would you do with more saved time? I probably spend it on twitter It's a sad to two hundred percent? I got no idea

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then terrorists. As rapporteur for the washing post, he is the author of the new book, the big break, which is available today, I've already read it spoiler alert. It's great Ben. Welcome to the show thanks so much for having me thanks much for doing this and thanks for sending me a pdf of the book, although I also paid for one so we'll be arriving in my kindle shortly. It's a great book. It's a very On page turning quick, read too, I highly recommend folks read it if you want to learn, that. Some of the more interesting characters in washington is at a fairer sort of summary. If what who like to focus on yeah I'd say so I tried to find the most interesting people who actually were also either important or influential, or in said something more about a kind of the current state of politics yeah. Think that serve characterizes your reporting in the post to its like coverage of these entertaining characters in politics, then using them to tell a bigger story about the city

industry around politics, which I think is a great way to do it so something we could start with, one of the folks in the book. There really interested me A guy named Robert struck. Can you tell us who he is and what his job was sure robber, strict, is definitely one of the more interesting people in this book. I have to say, is full of interesting people. I honestly believe that, but he is, he is truly a unique character a long time lobbyists who was never we successful until Donald trump came around and then was one of the most wildly successful you know, financially, most widely successful lobbyists in all of washington. This kind cowboy swaggering, libertarian trump, loving, but also trump sceptical in some ways. Guy who lived a farm in middle bird virginia He called the alibi farm and he was this

who just really could not make it work until Donald trump came around and he just found a way to take advantage of the chaos and become a power player in washington, I was interested in him not just because he made it work in washington when tromp was around I wanted to know what happened to the sky after tromp was gone. Right is one thing for a guy to come when the door is open to him to take advantage of this really chaotic moment but happens on Washington reverts a little bit back to normal one job incomes in once. The kind of the usual suspects return what happened to a you know, a chaotic character like him or in chinese, introducing like the ultimate example of fake it till you make it He didn't seem like an individual who was particularly that well connected within the trump orbit, but basically he bluffed his way. into some of the biggest lobbying contracts. You could imagine with foreign countries right so here story is origin story in the trunk years is fascinating. He was

it's a very low level kind of guy out in Oregon, helping out for donald trump got connected to some people who ended up being big players in in the trump world, but he got big. He had his big break, which is the name of the book. The book is called the big break because the country went through a big break, but also because all these new people have the opportunity to seek out big breaks of their own and This came in a really in a strange fashion. He came to me. She turned right after trump one ways around. Or the election night he was there and continued to be thereafter. He anyone can partied for Four nights drinking an endless amount of waste he with his friends and smoking cigars, and why night he was out at the four seasons and georgetown outside on the patio, smoking, cigars and drinking when a dog came and sniffed his crutch and caught up Is this dog away like the heck's going on here and woman comes in and she apologize isn't he He notices that she has an accent but quite can't quite place. It turns out she works for the new zealand embassy,

and she's having a tough time connecting her country with donald trump, I mean when trump became president all these countries, at the scramble to figure out what to do, they were all kind of expecting. You would be Clinton he's sitting there and he says out you wanna get connected, don't drop. I can do that here. Not knowing that moment. If he could really do it or not, but he had enough of up of a chance decided. He was gonna, take a gamble on this and he was able to do it. He kept connect new zealand to donald trump and use, that is a jumping off point to just work for all these countries, many of which were kind of controversial countries. Looking, for you know, a leg up, an entrance, washing and so in these are like massive contracts. Writing you're, talking like a hundred thousand Dollars a month is sort of a starter. If your lobbying for out of a name some of these unsavory characters a word in the book, well, one one place it. He got a huge contract for was for like five million dollars for saudi arabia, and he didn't even end up doing anything for them. He just you know that they saw

tunisia that there were not a lot of people who could say, look were connected to donald trump. He was saying it. They got this thing. This huge contract and, ultimately didn't even ask anything from him. I mean that that there's so much money out there in foreign contracts, because too tree five million dollars is nothing right, but if you can use it turn, I dont know get your of off of potential sanctions lists or, if you can use it to, you know, banned the year of someone in the state department, just the chance of that is worth so much more than a few million dollars. It be worth billions dollars- and so you know people could throw around money and he could collect five million dollars to do. Nothing must be nice, another person. You you spend a lot of time within the book is a at slap. I find him too, one of the more craven disgusting phony people in washington. Just a quick summary for listening who don't know mr slap nice lobbyists who is

chairman of the american conservative union, which organizes the sea pac conference, see pack used to be this kind of fringe political circus. It is now basically kind of like the heart of the maga movement and it's spreading that brand of politics to other right wing, populist countries and leaders. Nat was also accused of sexual assaulting someone on herschel walker's campaign. Can you talk about why you wanted to include nat in the book and like a little bit about his evolution from sort of a an a a a bush guy who you know, worked in the bush white house and was kind of a standard republican too. I dunno that the or of amalgam movement yeah I mean so, I started to write this book because a lot of people premature, One can tell that washington is broken right, but it's hard to know exactly how it got that way. I have this kind of great job, some time to come. well job, but a great job in that I can spend my days figure out? Answer to that question I can talk to people

get inside rooms that most people can get into. I can in spain tons of time, researching them in time. Everyone who knows them and I wanted to know kind of how the republican party became what it is today how it went from the p of your twenty. years ago or even ten years ago, and you know how it turned into hardy. That just cares about donald trump and loyalty to him, and I felt like it's hard to write about an entire party, but as a profile I could spend time with match lap, who is a very good example of this- may be the best sample of washington Republican who went from the establishment to donald trump I felt like if I could come and get to know him his motivations, the way that he spoke. his story, the way that he explained how he could be a compassionate conservative one day under george bush and ba, a fighter, loyalist fur donald trump talking about when elections and in I'm going to bat for trump from everything from

defending and when he was accused of sexual assault too. You know you you You name the thing that down trumpets down, lapis, defended it and spent time with him, was a very it was. It was difficult to do right to spend time with with any political person for four that much time and to be writing about them in a thing about them, but did give me kind of a good insight to how the party could move from what from one place to another. Did you ever get a sense of why he would agree to talk with you, the aegis think thick getting more cover, would help his business, and it is obviously someone who had a lot to hide. We have come to her yeah. I No exactly why people talk to me? Sometimes I'm glad they do. I think the reason is because I am fair. I spend a lot of time trying to get to know p and understand their motivations and and and give their world view at least some time to breathe right, but I'm also

fair, in that I'm gonna write what's true, and so, if match lamp, comes across as somebody who gave up of his values for donald trump. If I write about the fact that he has been accused of of groping a male staffer and did that while also kind of disparaging gay people and they can get jokes about gay people to me like I will put that in the book, because I'm and to tell the full picture of somebody, and so he may not, like the you know, the way that he's portrayed in the book, but at the at the beginning of it. You know, I told him I would be fair and at the end of it I do think I'm fair. It just doesn't necessarily mean that everybody I write about, loves the story at the end of the of the of the process yeah, so I lived on and off in DC from two thousand and two to about twenty fifteen. I think that I'm fairly cynical and pretty hard on the city. When I talk about it, I came away from reading your book within even darker,

more cynical take on washington and I'm wondering you know if, if that take a ways accurate, if you really do have incredibly darkened cynical view washington in the future hank. Deasey was always that way or if you think it has gotten worse over the last few years, and I should mention that, like you, didn't just profile republicans in the trump era? There's a bunch of democrats in your too. You know, I think he started off by talking about how you thought this book was fun red and- and I thank you for that- and I- and I agree- I hope, that's true, and so I think when people read this book like it can be a ramp, it can be funny it can be an adventure, but yeah. There is a real darkness to it right there there there are. These are dark times it's. The country is not in a great place and washington is not necessarily up for the challenge and a lot of ways, and so there are characteristic of this book in there's. Lots of different characters were all trying to make this

kind of new frontier work, sometimes just for them, sometimes just for their own benefit, sometimes, though, to try to make the world a better place And so well, I do not have like them most positive view of washington as a whole there are lots of parts of it that do give me a lot of open- and I think that in the book as well- and so You find that in dark places right. I spend a lot of time within this book with he'll staffer, some under appreciated underpaid under covered staffers were and voiceless in washington. The people who can really make the city work some of them are going through in a terrible time, I spend time with the former dian Feinstein staffer, who makes a splash in this book by taking which of mushrooms after is fired breaking into his bosses office so the joint at her desk and filling a protest video to try to get attention for the things that he's

and rightly does not. A happy story is interesting, but so happy butler interesting about, but underneath that it helped me kind of get to know a whole world of people who are dead firstly, trying to do good work. People talk about washington has just filled with cynics, and people were desperate for our and are a lot of those, but more people come to washington. To try to do good stuff and that hasn't changed even after from in some ways? I should like more and more people are coming to the feels more important than ever, and so I think, even if you this book and see a lot of darkness that dark glimmer of hope in there too. yeah? I mean look at. I worked on capitol hill for awhile. I don't want to dissuade anyone from working in government or or work in politics generally, but they can be really tough jobs. Ah, you are underpaid. You are overworked the work itself. Can doesn't always feel all that gratifying, especially when you're younger at a lower level

like my overall taken Washington have worked in the white house or of those through that duration of my time. There was no so the city was kind of really well meaning earnest people that are a little nerdy in a good way and focused on making the world a better place. Do you think the trump era changed that and make up to include more people like Robert strict, the first guy we talk about, who serve used his little bit of acts es into administration to make a ton of money by lobbying for unsavory people. I mean more. I do think more people come to washington because, idealistic then come to make money, I just think, If you really want to be wretched, you gonna wall street. If you really want to be famous, you can go to hollywood. I dont It's the number one place to come for that. I do think more people than usual have come

washington, since donald trump and during the trump areas, because of that because all of a sudden the door is open to more people like the way about this. Is I I've always liked to right right about kind of side show characterised because I find them interesting. I often think psycho characters do a very good job of, kind of explaining the world that you can read a profile, someone who seems kind of kind of strange and weird and and If you understand the world better but now the sideshow characters realize that can be on the centre stage. I mean that's what happens in the donald trump years, like you? Can all of a sudden become a power player, even if, in any other era, you could not do, but I still think there are more people that come here to just do good work and it can be if you know that doesn't mean that everybody stays in washington is an idealist. Washington can change people even come here. Come here, idealistic and leave cynical. You can come to try change. The world even realize is actually easier to just make money, so you know again

there's a lot of cynicism in washington and demonstrated as the next guy. But you know, I do think that when people saw but donald trump us de politics. A lot of ideal is that people said well, I'm needed more than ever to go in, and you know fight the good fight. You may do the good that maybe the differences between when I started with the trump era is there like, there's, obviously been lots of people that want to washington in did brand building and left me I'm. I am one of them with just be clear about that, but it was more like george if the annapolis were to the white house. He was the communications director and then he left and got a job at a b c news or whatever. Now there is like a brand building on steroids, with social media of a guy like boris Epstein who, as you know, some like tiered de surrogate in the trunk campaign. I think he d, like surrogate scheduling in the white house, got pushed out.

Now he's like trumps legal considerably airy. Seemingly he running points on all the cases, defending him against the very special council investigations, or maybe that's the thing that has changed over time, its ability to like Have your star turn? Do it very quickly on your own terms, on social media and then leverage that into something financially. yeah? Absolutely I mean you know: institutions in Washington have changed and a lot of crumble that used to be you. Could you have to work your way up? through institutions. But now people are making their own yeah yeah yeah. Maybe a brookings isn't a short cut. It used to be I think he didn't talk about a lot in the book is the mainstream media and how mainstream media institutions and organizations are doing it. This time you do talk about the role of social media, especially capitol hill to in some sort of new media outlets that are trying to tell the stories indies that have been marginalized in those in those jobs, capitol or capital held generally. But how do you feel like the mainstream media is doing to kind of keep tat?

on some of the self dealing that we were just talking about a top look. I mean Some of the best journalism in the world is still being done today. You know if you, if you look at the best work this out there, it's amazing we're just do incredible, workin and in other speaking, truth power. Also admit that it's a struggling industry right now, both financially, but also with how to do the job as a whole, and so I think, while some places are or are not out of, the park is just hard to keep up and the book is about a washington that has not fully prepared for the possible return of Donald trump right is not like. Once trump was gone, all these guard rails went up and everybody prepared for the second coming, tromp or someone like him, and I think the same is through in the media. I think a lot of television media a lot of places are struggling financially, are

making the same mistakes that they made the first time around, and you don't need to learn some lessons. Yes agreed with that. So let me speak to learning lessons so that this is not in the book, but this is part of your washing posts. providing you read this piece of few weeks ago about a guy morgan, murphy who were Senator Tommy tub reveals military aid. He end up. Resigning are getting pushed out after your story right Can you tell us a little bit about morgan murphy and what got him into trouble sure morgan. Is the conference like it that would fit very well into this book? Honestly? Is a kind of actor, who in another era would not have been at the centre of europe american policy making necessarily, but was in you know up until last week. At you know in that role, and he it was tommy me tom national security adviser, but he had this kind of crazy back story and he worked.

for great and corridor. At vanity fair, he became an adventure writer four forms. magazine he wrote books about eating his way through the south? You know, if you looked him, on wikipedia didn't, say: morgan murphy, national security adviser said, morgan, murphy, food critic and this food. Riddick was at the centre of a big corfu. Full happening in Washington right now. Tommy tougher village pretty much single handedly, holding up nominations for pentagon positions that are crucial to you now. American safety he's doing so because he's trying to fight against a department of defense. Abortion policy and morgan murphy was a key adviser. Helping tuberville can figure this out. I wrote about him because it fell to me like here, is an example of a guy who wouldn't be in washington, if not for trump, only and he got here, was because he is a captain in the

naval reserves and tromp yours, he ended up working at the pentagon and because there was kind of a void and- and you know, communication leadership he rose very quickly to become a traveling press secretary. The travelling press secretary the pentagon, so all of a sudden, this guy who's a food critic, is now picking on behalf of the affair, at military, and then it ends up working for a former football coach who's. Now, a senator who is single, handedly blocking pentagon from doing it's job that to me, is like. Oh things are different in washington and here's a character that represents that yeah things are different in washington and just to sort of like double sample. What what tuberville is doing he's got a hold on all us department, defense, general and flag officer promotions, because the department of defense will give paid time off and travel funding for service members and dependents seeking abortion services if, if they live in states where those services are now illegal, so Tuberville is holding up hundreds of promotions department of fence.

As there are about six hundred. Fifty officers covered by this blanket holds her like a one to four star general. Its show aggressive that Mcconnell opposes this idea, but what do we make of the fact that holding up hundreds of promotions, for members of the military who have no part of this policy. The tub reveal says he opposes that, doesn't get you in trouble, but morgan, murphy, taking credit for the policy and taken some of that credit away from top to reveal that gets you fire. Yeah. I mean you know it's one of those things where wash it has changed and a lot of ways since donald trump, but in some ways it remains the same and one way that remains the same as if you were a principle if your member of congress, if you are elected official. You like to be the person, gets all the credit or all the blame, for you know policies that come to your office and of somebody step

in front of you and makes it look like they're, you know maybe pulling the strings. It's a it's, not a good look yet don't get in the boss's way. A ban. Thank you show the book again- is the big break is available. Now it's a great red by it. Take it to the beach with you, you'll learn a lot about washington, but don't let it make you too cynical, because there's some good stuff too, that you can do if you want to work there. But I really appreciate you doing the show thanks. So much rob me the base have for joining us today, and I we'll talk again, others pod save america is a crooked media production. The executive producer is Michael Martina. Our producers are Andy gardener, Bernstein and olivia martinez, its mixed and edited by andrew chadwick. Jordan canter is our soundings near with audio support from kyle's

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