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load. Everybody joining us on our super saw here. This is the third and final episode at least for now of our building. if you want series in with me as my co author, really, I'm your call off a year, the author on the coal cocoa. We recall, we call- I think, of you is the author and on the co arthur brooks years, social scientists and a harvard business school. Faster, who teaches a very popular class on happiness and I'm just as social scientists. What does that actually mean? I love the word the term. What does it mean study human behaviour as human beings. human beings and why they do what they do, which is interesting in your an astronomer area, the astrophysicist or you're studying natural sciences. He looking in the big, complicated things in the universe, but that's different than the complex things that people do? People are funny, you can with any amount of computing horse power stimulate look, we gonna do we were motivated by love. People are motive

did by relationships, and so the result, as we easily know what we want, but we don't know how to get it. Yeah, that's a wicked problem, as they say in Boston. That's that's it! really hard problem to solve and is a super interesting one at that you're studying human behavior. What part of it are you studying just everything yeah? Well in general, you you can you could look at any and and psychologists and behavioral economists, they're studying every conceivable facet of haven t you can imagine, but for me it's happiness, love happiness, a lot because ass, the heart of it yeah. It took me a while to get there, and I started off by looking at beauty and art I looked at philanthropy and charitable giving and why people do things for each other, and I found that the root of both of these things was that people want to want love and they want to be happy, and I thought, let's go to the source and that's how I wound up studying human happiness and it's just endlessly fascinating,

I can't get enough of it. I wake up at night with a new idea, not what I want to study and are so many great scientist self there that that are studying the psychology or the neuroscience of what motivates us in our quest for happiness. I'm just given the people and the information to others and at this point we are about that professor brooks comes with the receipts, y'all he's got stuff to back it up and in chapter six in our book we call it friendship that is deeply real. So, let's start with a reader question, sharing good good I've resonated so much with that chapter on friendship. That is deeply real for me so many levels every few years I go through evaluate my inner circles, because, if you not depositing into my life you're wasting my time, which is very, very precious at this age. The analogy that friendships are similar to the wrongs of the latter is brilliant Oprah. My question

Are you we have watched you and your best friend gales relationship right for years and over the course of your sisterhood? Have you ever fallen out and how did you recover rekindle their friendship or mishap Sherry! Thanks for that question actually know we'd. There has never and a falling out or even a major I'm not talking to you or hanging up, or angry there's, never never than that in the forty plus years that we ve been friends, you know we're very very different, I mean you would think. I think people think that, because you watch the show all those years that I am the extroverted personality, I'm not I'm actually introvert who can manage in function, well in an expert whirl of notice that, yes, have you noticed an iphone functionality,

hi functioning of achieving a high, highly functioning introvert, but he really it's. The quiet moments alone, its euro being pensive its long walks spending time with my dogs and stedman it. You know carelessly opposite. I dont know how she does it and she to rise and gets energy from being out in the world. I will tell you about a recent, so we agree to disagree and many times agree strongly like most recently, something she wanted me to do for all day and I decided I did not want to do it, and so gale called me and said everybody here is: is there they are there dashing their teeth to powder everybody's upset because they thought then do it and now you know, Do it and I think you should. I said why I've made a decision that I am not going to do it and she said I think, you're wrong. I agree or disagree, and I said- and I really

I appreciate you calling me and pressuring me after. I have already said no, and she said I'm not pressuring you I'm just giving you might. Indian, because I know you're gonna end up doing what you want to do, and I said exactly thanks for calling, and that is your relationship is what it is. Is that does that? it is absolutely mature relationship. You know early on. If you had just met, it would be a schism. But after years and years and years I mean she knows the a you have opinions that are in the best interest of your business and what you want to do and she has deep love and respect for you. Look I've seen you two and uniting in person after a little time. Apart yeah I was there like a person, because we did oh, yes, he permitted or show on CBS ovaries. Here we are, like it went off with your aunt. She brought a friend and it was like. I could see the oxytocin in your brain

Your eye contact with your best raise a beautiful thing. We do that thing that tony marston said years ago on the show that would she was raising her son. She realised that, tom they showed up. She was like pull up your pants and calm your hair, but she will as it would children really want You know that your eyes light up when you entered the room. The truth is, everybody wants to know the eyes light up went on, but you really do I mean a spontaneous. You didn't make an effort, and that was a beautiful thing and it was very clear that. This is a real friendship. This is not a deal french. This is something that really matters to you in and has for a really long time. some people think, and that means that sometimes you're gonna disagreements, fine, was not. And ass. You go disagreement. You sublimated you like. Ok, fine I'll, do your article yeah I wouldn't have been good. That would actually bad for your friendship to do that, because that would have actually planted the seeds of resentment and those grow into bitter fruit. Yeah, so explain the difference between real friends and deal friends. Everybody knows if you got the real you

Oh, if you ve got the real friends or not, you know- and you know, gill and I've been friends for over forty years. She was twenty. I know she was twenty I was twenty two when we met and now we're not that It's a funny thing about the years hundred years is that I don't even know, but the thing that I always say is you know you got a friend for life when they are happier for your at your successes. Then you are mean all the year. She's always been the most cited in there for me and once I was going to have come, Isn't she just showed up and said? Well, I just had to look at you, but you you look. Ok, you're gonna be all right and then get back on the plane and left very strict. fantastic, there are many incredibly motivated healthy listeners out there right now living their best lives. They may even working out right now is there listening, but unfortunately, even the healthiest person out there may still be at risk of something called. I l p

lay chances. Are you haven't heard of it, but you could be one of roughly sixty million americans who is affected by it. High LP little lay is a hard risks that may be hidden in your blood and may give you two to four times higher chance of heart attack or stroke since high LP little lay as an inherited risk factor. It can affect anybody, men are hallo, be their lifestyle. Luckily, to find out, if you are at risk, you can get screamed with a simple blood test find out how at what is l p a dad. Come that's what is l p a dad come brought to you by novartis yeah, so we all know a lot of people. The problem that we have one of the problems that we have in the united states today in many places around the world is that we're lonelier than we've been before, despite the fact that we had plenty of contact with other people, it's a paradox. Isn't it we work with other people? I mean the coronavirus was horrible for that, but we're pretty much. In the same,

social conditions that we were before and yet we're lonelier. The reason for that is that we have lost our ability to create this kind of real friendship. This kind of real intimacy with other people. Now social media screens, distractions life incredibly distracting, plus we have a whole political infrastructure dedicated telling us that if your friend who votes different near there stood the naval. People are getting profiting from the ends of these friendships, so we have to we established the skills and that's why we wrote this chapter in the book is about establishing real friendships, so Aristotle, the great ancient greek philosopher twenty five hundred years ago,

I wrote more compellingly than anybody about friendship, yep. He said that friendship at the base level is kind of transactional. You know you work with people and you're pretty friendly with them, and you like him, but if the business stops, the friendship stops a little bit above that you admire certain people in this great, but at the highest level he called the perfect friendship, the friendship, a virtue and that's based on just loving each other, and he said he has a word for it, a telex that means it didn't tell us at another point. It didn't have a reason outside of love itself. It was useless, not useful, and that's it. To be looking for if somebody's lonely in the midst of a crowd we need more. are useless. People in our lives is what it comes down to now worthless. I got friends like that to know it friends who they don't want anything from you. They don't need anything, they don't need anything, you don't need anything from them and we are usually has a shared gov. It's a shared love for your values.

Maybe your children, your religion, maybe it's building bird houses, other boston, red sox, but the point is you have this thing you think about it? This way walk together side by side, admiring the thing in front of you mutually together beautiful you, that you're deepest conversations or when you walk inside I'd with somebody as the sun was setting yeah it's just with debts of its very beautiful and intimate thing, because your admiring that, through thing, and it also shows that you by your gear, your point about Galen, I'm no, that's hard for a lot of. He believed that we haven't had a you know. This shit nor something that made us not speak for awhile, You know, as I was saying, choice wanted. Whatever is the best in the same thing is true for me always yeah, one you're, also not a dramatic person. You know we have done our personality tests and we in our book we about that. We have a personality, profiling task, turn on your levels of in the intensity of your motion that yeah and people are

I think that to constantly you're right, yes, this is where people are taking it. They can take it on the website for the book about what their personality profile is based on the intensity of their emotions, really high affect people negative and positive super high. Those are mad scientists, but people who are low low. That doesn't mean they don't feel these things, but they have an effect level. That's quite controlled! Last you, your judge, yet mature and and that's a really good personality profile, because it means you're not going to be dramatic. When you disagree with something quite circumspect, you get your, I mean sober unflappable, it's a really good thing and in a now spend enough time with you to see that that's actually authentic, in private and in public and that's very helpful Gail is a cheerleader. Yes, that means high positive effect, low negative effect, and that means there's a lot of emotion out there

but you're the steadying force, your keeping it real all the time and that's a very good match in a friendship didn't to not have these constant blobs. You got people with tremendously high positive and negative effects that are friends are gonna fight or spam. you have. It makes sense that we have, since they make sense. So we live in this political polarisation you just talking about it. One in six americans say they are cut off. They ve cut off contact with friends and family over politics. Let's talk about are attached. two opinions. Why are we so attached to our opinions? It's a natural thing in the great vietnamese buddhist master thick, not hahn near the monk. I love dignan, wonder

He wrote the miracle of mindfulness and so many other wonderful books that that that brought the ideas of buddhism to the last yes, a christian people and in the united states and other religions is walls, wonderful and he said that one of the greatest most virulent dangerous attachment is the attachment that we have to our views, and the reason is because we we can't separate our opinions from ourselves. does not operate opinions, arthur's, not arthur's opinions, I'm a real person who has opinions and say I am my opinions. My identity is my opinions is like unbelievably brutal. It's a big problem. I know that. But what, if your opinions are not in alignment with. My value, then, is a very interesting up, kennedy for you to learn about another person's views. So what? If I actually- absolutely disagree like I'm sitting across from somebody who believes that we should be burning books from Toni morrison,

or amanda gorman or whatever. I I find that very hard to reconcile yeah, and that means that you're not going to agree on that, but it's kind of interesting to find out the things that you might have in common, that you could actually learn about people who have those types of views such that you can perhaps even combat those ideas more effectively, but the abandon them to suited to lower their humanity in your own views. It it it lessons you are not trying to lower. I would- and I know that many of you who disagree, who agree or end also disagree with me. Let, but I'm I I wouldn't love them all. Equally yeah. I would not be trying to lower them. I would just say: ok, then I disagree. I disagree. I disagree with that. I disagree with I dont just disagree strongly disagree extraordinary

I ain't your misguided, yes and I dont know if I want to sit and have a meal with you. If that's where you that's, that's the way you think, but you know you might be able to persuade him, but you care, but you can't allow you can't you can't persuade him if you cut him off here's the thing in our society today, we all have yes, I would be able to sit and have a conversation with you. I mean I over there. is obviously have the interview talked to lots of people who I had disagreements with it doesn't mean I want to bring you into my life though. Well yeah I mean there's. No. Nobody says you have to have dinner with them. Yes, but the point is: can you actually listen in such a way that you have the chance to persuade? The reason I'm asking that question, because the reason one out of six people are saying they are cut off with their family and friends is because they were sitting at dinner. You know people it it's hard to have thanksgiving

because, yes, there's such polarization, you have to make a decision what's more important to your view, your values or family relationships and aunt for happiness, family relationships. Should not actually suffer schism, except for those cases of abuse and differences of views are not abuse. Related they're, not abuse. I mean they're affect me very strong differences of opinion, but you can still maintain bonds of love with people with whom you have strong differences and we always have. I mean the whole idea that fifty

I go to say I would not all I would. I would never have agreed to having my child marry somebody, the other political party would have been crazy. Nobody, I mean that's not the way that people talk. Only six percent of americans in nineteen sixty said they cared the political opinion, the spouse of the child. Now it's like sixty per cent actually care about that a lot, and the reason is because we become so identified with our political opinions. You don't want on dating profiles. You find that about. Seventy per cent of people say they would not date, somebody of the opposite political party, seventy percent wouldn't date, some of the opposite political. So is the big problem, because love is better than politics, a lot better than politics. I recommend to my students that they they have em. They don't put on their dating profile, their politics, that they they they steer clear of people who are super.

Watercolor dating profiles, and they have a moratorium on all conversations about politics for the first four dates. Most of the time you don't get to four dates, but by the time you're, on your fourth or fifth date and there's sparks, I mean: there's love there's a neural chemical cascade happening inside the head, and then you ve got a realistic possibility of loving each other across differences in us. What we gotta do I mean here's at the end of the day when it when it comes to these big polarizing issues that we got you haven't port yes, yes and legitimate use. You can use them as a weapon or you can use them as a gift yeah and if you is used as a weapon. You lost ok, I agree with not using the weapon and I agree with detaching from your opinions. I agree with that. Ok, I don't and at his heart and I'm not gonna, say it's not hard. don't go anywhere or to come after this short break. This. Shell was sponsored by better help. How would you do give giving this holiday if it was completely up to you?

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tat, bone or video plus you can switch therapists any time for no charge be number one on your gift lists, with better help visit better help, dot com, slash super sold today to get ten percent off your first month. That's better help, hd LP, dot com, slash super soul, thanks to the hard for it for supporting the special bonus episode of super. So today is born, episode is presented to you by the hartford. The hartford is a leader in property and casualty, insurance and employee benefits for more than two hundred years. They provided people and businesses with the support and protection they need to pursue their unique ambitions, sees opportunity and prevail through unexpected challenges in an industry that sees customers as risks and data points. The hearth

since apart committing to people beyond the policy by using their knowledge data and resources to make positive contributions to society its, why they are committed to making adaptive sports more accessible to youth and adults with disabilities help employers creates stigma. Free workplaces with mental health resources, support, small businesses with opportunities to showcase or products and services to revitalize main streets, provide fire safety and prevention. Education in cities, most at as for home fires, so whether its abridged spanned, the golden gate, a store front with the family name on the door or home in which to make memories, tress the hartford to help protect. What matters to you brought to you by the hartford, learn more at the harper dot com flash achievement. We have a question for patent a recent college, graduate higher? I paid him, I'm a recent college graduate from hansen university and I'm twenty two years old on page twenty three is set out once you embrace your life without fear

you can manage your emotions, you'll be free to build on the pillow I will set you on the path to getting happier for the rest of your life. We know later in the book. You say these pillars are family and friendship, work and faith. My question is: which pillar You personally spent more his hand building, and why and if you could be twenty two again, which pillar would you focus on? It's a good question. What do you think your answer? You know yeah, you know I wish I had knowledge that I have right now when I was twenty to kill you couldn't I couldn't, except that patent can be less. When we read the book, I bought for paying you a jump- start yeah. I know for sure, and so it's a really smart question that she's asking the truth is you need to may have a diversified portfolio. You've got to do all four yeah as you don't start with one. You know you basically put your your investments in all four of these accounts at all that I'm some are easier. Remember. In the last episode we talked to Brendan, who said family, yet

your family, you start with family jesse of lower expectations. Yes, all of these things are, as you can, control that now I wouldn't it their differently. I would say to faith I would to ever to save for me as poor kid growing up in apartheid. Mississippi it is my understanding of a transit power that I call god from the time that I could speak or learn to read that carried me through my loneliness, my sense of it. Ok, actual abuses, a kid, my sense of being- isolated every. So for me, that foundation is and I feel that I mean I I Don't know how people survive in a world where they don't have something bigger than themselves. Told me that you feel you felt the hand of god at everyone, your life, that's right, I feel god's favor. I feel that I am being carried by like my my favorite bible bible, verse.

Is in god I move and breathe and have my being, and so I I feel that I am I am part of and that the the breadth of god is. Is that which is to me all the time and I'm very cognisant of that this. power in my life, that's bigger than myself. That's really that the pillar that That is, that alien tomorrow throughout your life, and I have that pale pillar, no matter what area for sure- and I have always been in my faith- is incredibly important to me. There are other areas I wish I had been more conscious of, or I've been paying attention to a little bit When I was in my twenties, for example, I wish I'd spent more time and effort on my friendships. I was a really ambitious guy

I was, I was a professional musician. All the way through my twenties was a classical musician and I had relationships I mean I got married. I know I, but I didn't spend as much time on the real friendships, as I wish I had, and the result of it is that there's a little I mean I have very close friends. Now, but I don't have really close friends that date back to that period in my life, I got to jail you better. When you were twenty two years old, twenty champion that's same. Is Peyton yeah you met she she's, she should go. Madrigal go find your game. Yeah! That's really important, but- and I Didn'T- and I regret I mean I don't regret- I mean it's not really regret is the life that I lead, but if I could go back and be peyton yeah I would I would. I would do the work so we're talking about the pillars, so I was just expressing Faith is meant to me when we talk about it in the book. We try to make it very clear. I hope that everybody interprets it with the intention. We had telling anybody about of religion or certain faith that you need to have a yourself were saying you need it

something in your life, that's a bigger than you less transcendent. That's where we have a text box under the that says where we are here, it's really important we're right about religion. Yeah, you got put your cards on the table. Even when you said we were going to write about it. Oh god. I know I go literally literally. Oh god help me, but if you're not putting your cards on the table, then people are going to think that you're trying to sell them a buick, yeah right and so you've gotta be careful about that. So that you'd like this is where I'm coming from. This is what we mean, and so you said you talked to just what you said about the hand of god in your life that you practice and have practised the christian religion, I'm a roman catholic, literally the most important thing in my life, but I have studied with religious teachers all throughout my career clearer and fortified my own faith with respect and love for the things that they believe, as of I yeah and as a scientist or as a social scientist, what I have found that it is the the spirituality, the faith, the life philosophy, the sense of something transcendent to what we're doing here. That brings the happiness.

Out of it. So different people say no, I'm right now, I'm right! That's what we're talking about, but if you need a union transcendental walk. You need to get small as what it comes down to you. If you don't believe in anything, you just got at least believe there's bigger new. I will say that the faith of my youth has been expanded to will be inclusive of of of all faiths and it didn't you because you know in my youth I thought god was like in skin the clouds keeping a list checking it. You know, god and santa Claus were like well, you know yeah and that was the, version I grew up and you have grown up there and I have. The garbage is really really important. One of the reasons that people's struggle so much with faith in their holding onto the kids in the can't. They don't grow up, yeah grow up and mean there are still where, unlike their shorts from elementary school, when it comes to faith in southern super, sophisticated and think that

I still believe that yeah yeah, and so they didn't allow the the faith to expand yeah there. They have all these grown up views and all these grown up things in life yeah. But when it comes to faith, it's like that's what I learned in sunday, school yeah, third grade and they're wondering why it's an compelling. Well I mean they. They tell you these things that you can handle when you're in third grade you've got to grow up, that's right and you gotta do the work in the way that the work is by reading. People who know a lot by actually Undertaking a journey, yes, am actually doing the work like you would to learn anything else. You just have to take it seriously as opposed to well at some point. You know, god that the clouds apart and god, into some big booming voice and then- and if I don't see it, that means it doesn't exist that snow it live while Chris from ST louis has a question about the intersection of science and religion crystal good hi, I'm chris. As someone who has worked in a faith based sector most of my career, I really

initiate the session in a book on transcendence. Then in fact, science has shown that transcendence in our lives helps to build the life that we want lies of meaning and purpose and happiness in our country. It seems that many people divides and the transcendent you're either believin science or you believe in the transcendent. You say: that's a false dichotomy. Can you tell more about how important it is that we hold these two things: together: science and the transit. that especially in our country, if we want to build the lies in the country that we want. Thank you got ice crystals, greater. Grass grown correctly for sure and and this is a non in working in the fields and I work at an inn with neuroscientist unsocial scientists. There's a lot of you're sorry about this, but there's really not a conflict between faith and reason. At the end of the day, if we

studying. We want to be real serious about understanding picasso and his works. Yes, you wouldn't look for information about picasso in picassos. Painting he's now. there. You know this entering the soviet union days and ninety seven is they sent this rocket up out of orbit and they and they announced in a week we pointed the telescopes. In the space and we didn't see, god sees not there. if the council and say like think he's not there, so picasso doesn't exist, yeah, look, there's the artist and there's the art and yet, if you really want to be sophisticated about it, you gotta learn about both in you can't confuse them with each other on picassos not painting, but you can't learn about the painting till you learn about the painting is it'll. You study the painting is well you need. The scientist understand. The majesty of the natural world is an amazing sciences. Peru is is proof of it. It's it's astonishing that

when science is that is god yeah and while I mean there, there is a there is an originator of these beautiful things, but you're not going to find it by looking at the blade of grass per se. You can find evidence of it, but you don't you find evidence of a creator, perhaps depending on your views, but the idea that and since you can't see god or measure god or serve or perceived over the microscope that god doesn't exist, doesn't actually make sense, sensitive category error and end. So that's why we need to think both about about faith in creation and about the content of creation and its marvels arise At the time I were doing a show on meditation years ago, and this guy stood up to the audience, and he said I tried it. I went my set for twenty minutes and nothing happened. Try harder twenty minutes Nothing happened, it didn't, doesn't work interview John cabot's, in super soul and he's also the renowned scientists and teacher? You know of mindful, as any said, something as simple as lake

brushing your teeth or being in the shower can become a meditative practice practice and because I live in a house with stairs, I'm constantly like being really present with one foot in front of the other You know, and he was saying so many people are taking a shower, but there are already in the car and are on the way to the off while they're in the shower they're missing their lives yeah. So just when you're in the shower be in the shower yeah yeah, that's that's tick, not hans miracle of mindfulness or the beginning of the book. He talks about washing the dishes. When you're washing the dishes, you should be washing The issues are not their washed. The dishes you're not really living the item, s eyes, I interviewed tick, not hard and we spent an hour drinking a cup of tea. I have never been so present for a couple, were you present but that's interesting, because a lot of people think you've got to have some sort of sophisticated meditation practice. I have this colleague at harvard named Ellen langer. She really in and she she introduced the concept of mindfulness about twenty five,

years ago, to most western audiences for the first time she says it's not it's not a meditation technical, just paying attention but when you're on the train turn off your phone, your hands and put them in your lap and look out the window and pay attention to the things that you're seeing and it will become a quasi religious symbols become yeah. That's it's it's it's so beautiful, and so I've done that many times too, and I've missed that so many times I've missed it. So many times from thinking, tomorrow or yesterday and time travelling just time travelling and I'm missing my life. So. I have been saying this that I first hand how happiness multiplies when we share it. And I remember, is shown a core. No, he is everywhere. Tell me We co process, he says happiness, so what's happening in our brains in it has

full effect on everybody around us. Yes, that's the final lesson from our boat. for sure we we are intensely social species, it doesn't everybody is never to be alone. We also need some amount of solitude yeah. It's really important that we have time ourselves as well, but we're we're a social species were rapport pack animal- and you say we should become a happiness teacher. That's what you do virtual suit me I've slowly but above all, but let us remember that it is not normal for the. Ass majority of people to not share their joy with other people to not live in communion with other people, and that's why we spend so much time talking about love and so much time talking about relationships is simply contrary to human evolution and at least all kinds of things going: haywire in our brains and inner lives when we are cut off from other people when we're isolated from other people. That's why loneliness is such a huge problem. We have a big

opportunity when it comes to the material that we're talking about in this book to create relationships that are unbelievably enduring by sharing. This is the thing, so we we finish the book. That is to say, I hope you liked it yeah. You want to remember it. You want more loving you go, become the teacher teach it. So this is what to do in my class at harvard. The final exam is not a conventional final exam. I teach from power points and we know a lot of professors teach with power plants. I and I give them all of our points, and I say: ok, here's the final exam downloaded powerpoints. We're supposed to do anyway. Take my name off, but your name on teach a version of the class. Turning the videos

That's your final exam! Why? Because the you'll remember that forever. It will no longer be just in the limbic system of your brain bouncing around. I heard these things and see. This is the thing you know. People say the eyes I saw pot. I I listen to podcasts, and this guy talking about happiness is making a lot of sense. But then you know it doesn't seem like things are getting better. It's just because you listened once you didn't explain you didn't become the teacher. So this is what we try to empower people to do in this book is to you take something that you ve heard here. U s a thing that you read here explained in the book and then you explain it to If people- and it is yours- yes, it reinforces it for its incredible yeah. It's incredible! You know over the course of this process, I mean you didn't train as a social scientist I hear you explaining these ideas, other people all the time. Now it's amazing, not my favorite thing to talk about what you're gifted, but in your practised and you're good doing only the first time. I met you by the way when you interviewed me for super from last book yeah. You were quoting from

Book by memory when you're interviewing me, that was pretty good, but not everybody, you strength to strength and not everyone has their skills, but but everybody can do some so one of the things I will say the beginning of a speech to total strangers I'll say hears you should judge this speech within us good. Here's how you do it are you going to talk about this at dinner tonight. Explain these ideas to family yeah, and if the answer is yes, I did a good job answer is now maybe try again. Maybe it may I didn't do it the right way about it afterward I get tons of email and all kinds of feedback thing I up and went home and discussed at a dinner yeah. They became the teacher as well, and I think that this you know from our very first episode and that. The idea that people are assimilating for themselves now. Is this idea that being happy you're? You can achieve right that this

happiness is the goal for your whole life all the time it was Eric said that you can have happiness as a whole for your life, all the time, not possible that you can incrementally get happy you're. Have you still have your skill and happier still the project is so exciting. The last Are there I gotta get down because we ve talked about family. We talk about faith, we took my friends. We have not talked about work, which is a thing that consumes most people most hours. Most people spend more time with colleagues than with their spouse absolutely right. So the question is: why is the connection between work? More can happen as it is as a pillar yes, work can can lift you up or work can can drown. You work, just hold you down under the wrong circumstances. Okay! Well, what about prestige and job town? Not that kind of washes, do okay? Well, then, they should keep looking look at as a private sector, public sector government. What is it that none of that matters? Two things matter to give you the happiest job? What you need to

earn. Your success feel exaggerating value with your life in its recognised, that's number one, and never to you to believe that your serving our people, that you believe that, serving other people you're doing something that they need. That's the essence of dignity is to be needed and the best way that we can be needed, besides raising our children and being for our friends, is what we do in our jobs when people feel like their job is expendable, in that the joy that I have for my work now, is that I hear from people all the time who say that help me a lot. That's the joy that I get you too, you told me Well, that was what I heard all the time when I was doing the opera show is like this changed my life, where this meant so much to me and people were that that thing you would king about sharing at a dinner talking about what they heard her into- and I thinking that's gonna happen from us- do people talking about what they hurt.

in this conversation today, it's why we wrote the book and why we're sharing it with other people right. So what's your advice to workaholics yeah? So indeed, joy comes from work, rightly understood yeah and a lot of people blow out of proportion, yeah so If I were giving investment of ice some people woods, I would say you needed. Diversified portfolio of investments in asia have a little She should have a little stocks, have little bonds, whatever happens to be right and some people say, especially young people are the right. Now I want to go for the one that has. greatest yield this year, yeah right as hominem put it all in you know. These really rare key bonds or something I don't do that trust me. Don't do that! That's what people do who become more cohesion, usually early on in their life. They recognise that yeah. A phasing out, I'm gonna get it really family, japan, friends there. I was kind of the erika but work, I'm gettin promotions, I'm getting rewarded, I'm

a firm day after day after day, and so they they they they double down. They tripled out a pretty soon all the doors working. In other words, they, I understand that this is a good source of happiness, but the crowd out of the other things and the result is that their over invested in the work pillar and that becomes a source of addiction. That's what we call workaholics now usually secondary addiction. The primary addiction is the success. People get super interested in success, and the reason is because it hits the dopamine lover just the same way as gambling or alcohol or anything as highly declivity have culture that tells us that power money fame success. That is, I know you know, and so, and that's because you know nobody ever says you're so good at drinking gin. Yeah right. Nobody ever affirms you for that addiction. But if you work all night, good job here. Is that its own? Yet, but as a directive behaviour and a lot of cases like sometimes you have to I've worked all night before, because something was do like our manuscript worse, but but you know people

do that. All the time, it's because their being affirmed in a very dangerous addiction, there's a woman who teaches at stand for medical school physic psychiatrists name on a limb key and she wrote a very important buckled, dopamine nation- and I asked her on my podcast- I said you know what about work. A hollis and she said ah shows up. I see it all the time Stanford harvard in all these peoples. work, work, work, work, work and that's because they're they're they're shallow and desiccated in other parts of their lives, and so they think that they're going to get everything from that one pillar, but that's like putting your entire pension in greek bonds, but my workout, I don't recommend it as an economist, that's kind of what they're doing, and so you have to deal with the fact that that kind of addiction can hurt you. It can ruin your relationships and almost certainly you will wind up unhappy despite the fact that you are doing it to get happy. It's hugely ironic. Let's take one final question from gary

from Virginia who wants to know more about being a teacher to his daughters, love this hi, my name's gary, and I just wanted to thank you for fielding my question. I love the section of your book that related to family. That really means a lot to me. One of the if the questions is as I'm going through this journey and trying to work on myself and I have two preteen daughters and that I'd love to be able to pass along knowledge as well So what are your suggestions on the best way to handle working on something like this, where you killing yourself, but then also helping your kids. I appreciated thanks love that to do that again, I know it is such a good question knock, I gotta, be I gotta be completely in charge and totally competent before I can do that. That's not right! On the contrary, the best happiness teachers,

yeah yeah, that's it and as you're learning it yourselves sharing. You know this idea. I came across a homely, you UK, you, you can't achieve happiness, fool all the time so that you can continually get happier. I think just passing that message along to your kids, saint Paul, said in the new testament christian bottle when I'm weak that I'm strong he taught through it, weakness and we all should should should teach through our weakness we're running away from our weakness as we shouldn't be celebrating them in writing, memoirs about it either necessarily. But the whole point is that work or fallen we're we're trouble how'd, you know, and then the truth of the matter is that when somebody actually sees that is hugely instructive, that when

when sick. When you see your father- and he says I struggle with as wild as a big impact as a really big impacts is funny. Literature is a funny studies that asked the following question. Why is it that the best way that you can get your kids to practice? Your faith has nothing to do with what you tell them as nothing to do with the to teach him it has to do with what they see and almost certainly. The reason is because with your parents, especially the sort of ethically strongest parent weathers, mama dad that person takes its boughs before no person but if you see that person on her his knees on sunday as a big impact, because that person is saying your dad is saying I remember my thinking was a little kid. My dad was so strong. He could lift the house and he did not bow before any other person but on. and ass. He was on his knees and that meant I am weak. I saw my father weak and had a huge impact on me. A creator

hunger inside me and vassals. need to then. What is this thing, my father's bowing to endorse? What he can show is the hunters. This is a struggle and I'm on this path, and it's so good like this book. It's not research. It's me search. I I wanted to write this with you I want the answers to an and I write in the beginning of the book we have. These, were the note use your note starts so beautiful, and then I read your note enough. Okay. Well, I'm going to say, and so I wrote about the fact that I'm a happiness, professor and happiness is a struggle. It doesn't come. Naturally, I don't have athletic ability and happiness thats. The reason I do it. The reason He should talk about happiness to his daughters is because he loves them and wants them to be happy and he wants it to that, enhances the ability of him to get these ideas across.

I know you love to say, and I have heard you say many times that happiness is love full stop. Do you have any other final thoughts, its is the best way to remind ourselves about what really matters in the first place I ve been talking in the last couple: episodes that faith in our family friends about work, really what that is different facets of the way that we love, others that we give loved other people and an end magnetizer love to love to us, we're talking about love of the divine we're talking about love of our families, we're talking about love of our real friends and the apex of between family and friends that one there's one role between family and friends. That's not the same thing, which is spousal, love, romantic, love and then love that we that we show to everybody

the way that we earn our daily bread. I mean that's, that's love, love, love and more love. That's the four pillars! What it comes down to a mean you and I wrote this and when we talked about it, said Oregon. Why are we gonna write a book that a bunch of time it's a huge effort right? It's not like you know, Oprah and arthur gotta, get him number one year times, but sellers not like our life will be incomplete at this point, our lives it's great, but the reason why we did it is because we thought that we could actually with the way tat. We make our living. We could lift people up, that's love! This is an act of love for us and it might help is the whole point, and that makes me intensely happy yet makes me intensely happy. you, and I am so grateful to everybody who is bought the book, everybody who is now going to share the book with other people that you now everybody who is going to give the book and

The fact that there was number one of the new york times is just a big bonus, because I didn't have any attachment to it. I thought we will offer this to the world with Eric up saying it's a gift. It's a gift! Look at this again will offer to the world's a gift and the people receive it. That's really wonderful, and it is. And really wonderful that you received it. Thank you and thank you arthur thank your pro links or the journey thanks thanks everybody. This is the road map. If you're looking to get happier thanks, everybody thanks to our episode, sponsor the hard for He made usa insurance for veterans like james when he found out how much usa was helping members save you said this time to switch, will help. You find the right coverage at the right price. Usa. What you're made of were made for restrictions apply