Have you ever had a brilliant idea or solution, only to find resistance when trying to implement it?
In this enlightening episode, we welcome a visionary leader who empowers companies to create a backbone for modern financial markets worldwide and revolutionize our take on science and modern medicine.
Today, I welcome Mike Milken, who has been uniquely successful in creating value, whether measured in lives saved (Fortune magazine called him “The Man Who Changed Medicine”), students inspired (Forbes said he is an education visionary), or jobs created. Beginning in 1969, he and his colleagues financed thousands of companies that collectively created millions of jobs.
Join us as we explore the journey of turning dreams into reality, despite the initial challenges and obstacles.
In the face of life-threatening illness, what will you choose to focus on?
Together, we delve into the realm of cancer research and the importance of providing support to drive groundbreaking advancements, uncover the fascinating world of gut health and the profound impact it has on our immunity, the profound connection between personal health and the well-being of the world we inhabit, and we ponder whether laboratory-grown food is a sustainable, long-term change for the betterment of our planet.
Now, envision a future where pure, uncontaminated food can be created - how would this impact our lives and the world around us?
In this interview with Mike Milken, you'll learn:
- How science has evolved over the years
- The years of scientific research on cancer treatment and other illnesses
- The importance of organic food intake
- How we can be more proactive in taking care of our health
- How impactful investors are in financing economic and science based companies
Tune in on this thought-provoking journey as we unlock the wisdom and potential to create positive change in ourselves and the world. Let us embrace our innate ability to envision and manifest a healthier, harmonious future for all.
With Love and Gratitude,
Jay Shetty
What We Discuss:
- 00:00 Intro
- 00:35 “Just because you had a solution doesn’t mean that people will adopt it.”
- 04:17 Empowering companies financially to create a backbone for the modern financial markets around the world
- 10:08 It was an idea, it was a dream, but it wasn’t a reality yet
- 16:47 If you’re true to yourself and you know the issues, you can restart your life with a different path
- 23:19 Revenge and bitterness are unproductive emotions, they become your prison
- 26:13 What do you focus on when you encounter a life threatening illness?
- 37:08 Providing support for cancer research and convincing people to help with the research
- 44:57 The evolution of intensive research on gut health and how our immunity develops in accordance to the environment you live in
- 53:30 What will you do if you can cure your disease in your own lifetime?
- 57:58 Would you eat food grown in a laboratory? Is this a substantial long-term change?
- 01:00:46 Your immune system is smarter than all the scientists in the world, but something in your body is turning it off
- 01:06:17 A healthy human makes a healthy planet. How do we attain this?
- 01:11:22 What will you do when you have the ability to create pure food and not contaminate the planet?
- 01:16:10 Mike on Final Five
Episode Resources:
- https://milkeninstitute.org/
- https://www.mikemilken.com/
- https://www.mff.org/
- Faster Cures: Accelerating the Future of Health
Want to be a Jay Shetty Certified Life Coach? Get the Digital Guide and Workbook from Jay Shetty https://jayshettypurpose.com/fb-getting-started-as-a-life-coach-podcast/
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
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Everyone welcome back to the number one health podcast in the world on purpose. I am so grateful that you come back every week to listen.
And and grow? I know that each of you are on a quest to become a happier healthier and more healed, and my role is to try and find great
stations and individuals that we can learn
the form that can guide
navigate this path that we're all on today's guessed at quite
the fascinating journey and we'll be diving into all aspects of failure held success.
As wellness, and so much more
I'm really honoured to have on the podcast, Michael milkin, or might merkin who's been uniquely?
yes well in creating value, whether measured in lives saved or whether its job created
michael and his colleagues finance thousands of companies that collectively created millions of jobs, microsoft,
the b, which began in the nineteen seventies.
parallel. These business korea expanded in nineteen. Eighty two, with the establishment of the milk and family foundation after two
decades of actively supporting medical research, Michael became a patient
ninety ninety three, when he
diagnosed with terminal cancer, we're going to be talking about that today over the last three,
decades Michael, is increased, focus on making the research process more effective and efficient, and today,
mike's twenty twenty three memoir foster cures, accelerating the future of health document
He's lifetime of work in the field is out now we're gonna put this in the links so makes you go order yourself, a copy of faster cures, accelerating the future of health
welcome to on purpose, MIKE milk and might
you for being here: one
before the be with you again. We ve been on numerous continents, and
could you be here in los angeles? At the same time absolutely- and I want to start off by saying a big thank you to James morgan, who entered
me too, you way back into
t seventeen in london when I first met you- and I spoke at the milken institute event in london. We then
Elaine shortly after and then we did- Singapore as well as I've been really grateful to being
the institute a number of times, and I
Don't think you know this story, but this podcast action
he was inspired by a calmness,
asian. I watched
the building, meaningful lives event, and I thought
myself said I wanted to create a place where people good common share the deeper parts of themselves that they don't often share our swans.
It actually all goes back to you. This whole all platforms. Thank you so much well,
It's my honour and pleasure in what you ve done with this programme to reach people throughout the world is just so impressive figures.
Thank you very grateful. Might let's drive straight into a because you truly of one of the most
fascinating journeys. I believe on the planet,
and so when I try and get into as much of it today and I think a lot of our audience will be familiar. Some of them won't be familiar with tools, so I'd love to get into some of those details. But can you walk
me through one of you
his childhood memories that you think has had a big in
I've done on who you are today or how you are the way you all today do,
It childhood memory or an interact with your parents or an interaction with a friend or
it showed that you think is stayed with you.
when I was very young, I have
This love data in knowledge, my favor,
book was the almanac.
And at night I haven't under my pillow, take out a flashlight and rate
and my parents had these bridge clubs where adults would come over and
come once a month and I have a chance to interact with fifteen sixteen in some cases, twenty adults
and when I discovered in this interaction, is very few people ever did. Research
you as a person why they believe in something had sat sure they heard from some one else, and am I
be based on fact, it might be based on fiction and so forth.
a very young age. I began to question why people
held certain beliefs.
Why they made certain decisions and an expert
or data and information and I'd say the first major event was discovering
Tat my father had had polio
had no knowledge and then one day
a friend who is over. We were playing catch, told me my
other had a limp. I really never noticed it, and I was thrust
and the world and
the early nineteen fifty. So what polio was
but occurred the understand
need of it. The fact
that in nineteen fifty two it was declared that epidemic and the united states
was worried that it would bankrupt the country having to build iron, long hotels to keep people live
a few years later there was a solution, and there was
vaccine created. No two people worked on it and it became prevalent.
We also notice was the teenagers we're not taking. The vexed
in their parents because they were worried. The vaccine was going to give them polio, and so,
the end of the story was
There was an individual who went on
a very popular show in the united states call. The ed Sullivan show that we used to watch
and more than a year after was available. Less than one percent of every teenager in america had been vaccinated.
And this individuals name was Elvis presley.
And because it was ok for Elvis after
within one year, eighty percent were vaccinate
and then so. There is a lot to learn here from this one week.
as you had a solution didn't mean people were adopted too,
the fact that this,
was considered something that was gonna bankrupt. The country.
Was obviously proven wrong. Numerous people were affected by it, but I think that the peaks only
sixty two thousand people, and this has repeated itself throughout history of P.
Well tell you, the world is coming to an end. It's not
come to an end science coming to the rescue. Well, yeah,
Incredible, I'm so excited to dive into so many of those ideas that you just
mention there throughout the course of our interview I want to go back to that
position of you? Starting out, you came from a modest background, but- and you ve
lots of successes and then valleys in your life peaks in valleys? If you walk us into the direction of your first peak
Did you always set out to be financially
successful, when you first created that first success in your
life. What was the would you said? The key
principles that you you
used in order to manufacture that first success that you,
I did not plan to go in the financial service business.
I wanted to run this space programme and I was totally infatuated with sputnik went up. It was
catastrophe. If you read the headlines in the united states at the time-
there was. The middle of the cold war. Now quotes
oh wait union had beaten the united states into space,
and I was very
very good in math and science- and I wrote a letter to the president of the united states, told him,
was ready to run the space programme. Now I know
really gotta response. I was
eleven years old, but that was my plan and my plan. Why
so. I went to berkeley
who was a leader and nobel prize winners in the sciences, and I was prepared.
Some data run the space programme.
then I was in los angeles, where we are today during something there.
Became known as the watch riots it was
august eleventh. Nineteen sixty five
Los angeles was on fire, the city of dreams, the city of entertainment. I had
his spin and berkeley and- and we had the free speech movement,
six or seven months before, but this was different. The city was on fire
and I went and met a young african american man who told me
He would never have a chance to borrow money to have a business. His father didn't because
the color of his skin,
in totally irrational knew me.
And I decided to go back and figure out why this was occurring when and went back to berkeley
and began to study credit and very similar to one.
was younger. I discovered everything that people said about credit was wrong. It didn't making differ.
Given the secretary of the treasury, the head
the federal reserve and what they
we're saying was in an accurate, and so I said on a path I had to give
my dream at that time of the space programme
to begin working on what I might call the democratization of capital, and I presume that during this period
Time from nineteen sixty five for the next twenty to twenty five years, so I
That was not my path, but
studying and what I had done, is an undergrad and then his grants due to my decision to quote, go to wall street was
billy to redirect the access to capital have a fundamental change, and
yes, in the next thirty years, sixty two million jobs in the united states were created.
there's always a backlash as of physic major for every force. There is resistance and so
changing the financial system. At that time. Many people wish that I didn't exist,
the idea.
that you were a large company and you had access to cap on the others didn't so,
we're five hundred investment, great companies and ten
save millions of non investment. Great cup is well one shoe and power them.
And created financial markets. We discovered sixty
Two million jobs were created in non investment, gray companies and minus four, so there was
A lot of change today, there's hundreds of firms headed by people that work for me,
And I would say it's that those structures are the basis.
Of modern financial markets around the world, but it's not it
Is not unusual at one
our scientific retreats and the first part of this century.
Was in the back of the room, and I invited to young people from Australia to come and speak
aid, commented that everything you thought about ulcers was wrong. Everything
they were telling you about ulcers
is to senior scientist. I had there in the back of the room. Why?
turn the other and said
who are these yo bows? They didn't.
even go to a good school wealth
Four years later, these yo both one a nobel prize so channel,
and chain, conventional wisdom and theory. I think, has been something I've
I did do as you try to move forward, create jobs, solve medical problems through
my life, and it goes all the way back.
to my little almanac and discovering my father had polio
One thing I'm noticing from your answer is that you have this: keen ability to spot patterns and analyzed patterns
You're almost seeing that there are systems which ultimately patterns that no longer serve us, and you believe that there are better systems or
patterns that would have an impact
in the world, and
also have used the word study a few times in your first few answers, and I think there's this big difference between academic study and patent study
and I find that the most successful people in the world a great studying patterns,
it's not really about the academic study, could you help break both of those days
for us, because I feel like you're, probably
best person to that question to it and genuine understanding the different, because I we hit the word study. But when you say the word study you mean something else, I would say extreme
molly inside for so weak
say there is inductive reasons, thirsty directive reasons, the very first
speech I gave on wall street was the best investor. Was the social scientists
understanding with things were and bigger world and stepping back.
And then going down and looking at the data to fight
Now, if your broad ideas of the world, where changing
in the last few months. The world has opened up to the
idea of where are the children of the world.
For twenty years,
The handwriting has been on the wall, the wall,
oh did not open up to it until the last short period of time here, but the birth rate.
In northern asia. Europe, the united states has dropped so
Significantly that, whereas
the population of the eu- s- is doubled, their less children born today than they were
seventy years ago, in the united states, china's birthright,
has dropped so low that the number of choice
wasn't born in china last year was less than ten million, so you think about
country of one point four billion but of
average life expectancy taking those that live to a hundred and averaging with those the dye. Young is seventy five. If you have ten
when children born a year any multiply it by seventy five, that's a population of seven hundred and fifty million, not a billion for, and so is
people think about things we ve had more people dying in Japan. Now.
for a very long period of time. Then, our
and so they have a decreasing population and most of the develop worlds. The birth rate is below replacement, but
This has not been going on for since the pandemic
This has been going on for a long period of time, and so when do you see it and
about twenty thirty years ago became quite concern because it appeared to us that the future
the children were going to be born was in sub saharan africa
and the rest of the world as a whole might be decreasing in terms of population so
What were the opportunities gonna be for the children of sub saharan africa?
and today and twenty twenty three more
children are born in nigeria. Then all of western,
europe. Eastern Europe throw in russia by a substantial amount in
More than twice as many children are born and not just nigeria.
then the united states, so people are
looking at where you are here now one
had my little almanacs
too young to know that if you
asked one almanac against another almanac, your assay actually getting the first derivative, your measuring change, and then, if you
feel them? You are measuring the rate of change, and so I think, when,
Answering your questions. You have to look at the broad social implications and what is occurring,
Then you have to ask yourself to the systems that currently exist. Fit
where the world is going. I then
had four almanacs- could calculate the second derivative. The rate of change
I would say this is prevalent in medicine. You could be diagnosed with cancer
Is it a slow growing grants or is it a fast growing
in the case of melanoma norma doubled every month if it was
and so a billion cancer cells one in ten,
slater our trillion other cancer
sir, very slow growing. So you could take your time to address it
and so understanding the rate of change and today, what's up
In the world and where the children are born and the facts that they're gonna indian operate,
needs, they're, gonna need jobs or we're gonna see one to two billion people on the move. So the question is: when how early d
see that and one of the exciting things about medicine today,
It is in the nineteen eightys there was this idea that everything was in your blood.
Well you didn't know what to look for you couldn't sequence, you couldn't do anything so might be there, but I cant find it now today we now have test they can make.
should they waste the dna late leakage in your blood. So you
In fine a life threatening diseases today, when there's just a
ray small amount of cells in your body
long before you could ever find it in a man?
my a gram or a c t or an m r. I, and so therefore dealing with these life threatening diseases today at their infancy, is so much easier. But this was a dream,
until computers were a million times faster and data storage costs where one billions it was,
idea. It was a dream, but it wasn't a reality.
Thank you for sharing that one idea before we dive into all the incredible were given in health care. I deafening wanted to talk about.
part of the agenda, which we have talked about personally, that you
we can only shifts and changes in pushing the boundaries you ended up going to prison in ninety. Ninety
to plead guilty to several felony charges related to securities violations, but
to me. I'm
fascinated by a how that happened for you but be,
more importantly, how you use that time, because the come back now looking backwards, it's it's incredible.
but to live the steve jobs famously said, you can always connect the dots looking backwards. You calm when you're moving forwards.
I just can't imagine someone who had such a vision. Someone had such
credible ideas to challenge the status quo,
and above all, to go to prison workers through first
Oh, how did you end up there and then
we'll talk about what it was like there, because I think that's just such an interesting.
but if your journey now looking backwards? Why think that
issue. There was an unusual period of time and once again and complete revolution and finance. There are many points in history where you ve had people. There were president's, went to prison brazil the day and are now the president of the country again. So when the present and gave me a pardon, he commented that these things, whenever crimes before they
Ben crime since they related to bookkeeping and things like that. But I had to find a way to bring it to an end, and I you a few fought
for ten or twenty years to me,
had to find a way to live again, and so I think of your true to yourself- and you know the issues
and the individuals know you. I view this is going to be a short period of time and I had to cut it short and make a decision for my family etc to live again, and it was a short period of time in the scheme of things when I think of the diversion of less than two years. If I go back to world war two, you had people that volunteered and were gone for four years fighting for freedom and what they believed in, and so I
in my view, was that I had to find a solution to bring it to an end and- and it didn't really change who I was what I did. The financial systems
he built are now adopted throughout the world
you're in india, singapore. Whenever my b and yes, there was disruption in the force. I would say
Did you if you think about a country you and I first met in the? U k,
when the more when the mercantile class rose up in england who was under threat, the nobility.
And so the nobility would go to the king or the queen and say what we can't compete any more. What are we gonna do, but the old financial system din really meet the future needs of the world, and so yes, I spent time thinking I got to tutor individuals help him get their education. How did you spend your days for those two years? I spent my time thinking about the world. I would write sometimes in vast, cigars and around the world, suggesting when I think they should have done
we should do what the country we should do, so it didn't din, interrupt those interactions, it didn't stop our philanthropic efforts, etc. I did get to interact with a group of people at that time. The group that was in the prison
this was a very low security area were primarily there for drugs, marijuana, ship captains and other types of things, and so it was a period of time. I was able to interact with my family
I think, anyone that separated from their family and when I think back to those people there one fought in world
or two in the nineteen forties there might have been separated for four years.
their only way of communicating with their family was through a letter you now the telephone was invented.
And in long distance call when I was young. No one may long distance calls because it was ten to twelve minutes to call another country,
so in the nineteen seventies. If I wanted to speak to move by, I had to be prepared. It was ten dollars to twelve dollars a minute, so those calls had to be short, and that was a period
time in that period of time, when a person salary was hundreds of dollars a week, not thousands of dollars a week. Today,
people have a hard time relating to that, because it's free on what's up or on your phone, but I could communicate with my children.
Family, and so when you are separated, the first thought is: is your family gonna be? Ok? Are you relationships?
my wife and I had known each other since we were twelve
Why was I know who she was the my business associates, thousands
seven knew how I was knew the issues, and so it was
in a situation where I felt separated from the world and therefore communication still existed, I telephoned existed. You aren't allowed to have a cell phone, but you could make a call on a pay phone, so I wasn't the same separation when I think of many people that were set.
to the gulag in russia, others where there were saw the need, son or others sharansky. They were
about how they took away their communications, they took away their visits. They even took away pencil and paper they too
go away books and one of them wrote that he know he knew he had. One then cause there was nothing else that they could take away, and so I think, having inner strength is extremely important during that period, when, when I think about my challenges, relative to the tens of millions of people that have gone off to fight in wars and my parents, generation that lived through the depression and world were too so that we could be free, my difficulties were,
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say, canada, the uk select countries
the eu and Australia. I think it's incredible amount of inner strength not only to be able to
navigate those two years, even though you are seeing it didn't feel that long in the biggest scheme of things that I still believe
there is such a resilience there. But the way you came back,
you talk about a andella you're getting more than twenty years. Twenty seven! Ok, and did he come back bitter, no, ok and in south africa became quite different. Let's say then zimbabwe as rhodesia
your went. So here, instead of being better and when he got out, I had a chance to visit with him. We came to see each other and so
My view was revenge or bitterness is an unproductive emotion. If you have something to give and focus and build, you have to focus going forward. You can't sit and focus on the path, and I had thoust
some people that it work for me who could carry on our mission and finance and are founded,
hence by forming the milken institute, didn't change
what I had done in the for profit world there I now did and the nonprofit world, so
my view was the
besides the ideas
carried on, and I am sure you know the current present in Brazil, whose spanish short time in prison you know has certain views, but he has so many responsibilities and things he has to do for brazil.
He was stuck in the past. Brazil wouldn't have a future. I am so glad you bought out. Nelson Mandela is a beautiful statement embrace way said that when I-
walked out of the gates of the jail
I realise that if I was to hold on
that resentment o bitterness that I would still be in prison.
And along those lines- and I think that such a powerful statement of his that he believed that resentment and bitterness and revenge what the actual prison that would hold and limit him.
forward, while, as you know well in your view,
There's no well! There are so many people in the world that have mental health issues. Today,.
And in many ways there all traced to something in their past and so being free being free of your past. Not forgetting it not reflecting on at not having been part of your decision process allows you to go forward
and to fly from that standpoint. Absolutely I want to talk about your switch from financial,
wow to medical research
but before we do that, I wanted to buy your own journey with being diagnosed with terminal prostate cancer, which I can't imagine is an easy.
He thing to here at such a young age as well, when you first received that what was it like to receive such dogma,
This is someone again who is thinking about the future, trying to build
will you someone who is quite focused on your?
What does while or were you someone negligent because you have focused on work and how does it feel to hear that
I would say to you- I probably had one of the least healthy diets in the world. Until that day I was diagnosed, but I experience this with my father's death in the nineteen seventies and it was the first time my economic theories were tested during a period of time from seventy three to seven
seven, which I would call my financial clinical trials. All the ideas that I had developed, an bible, the men nineteen seventies. I had become independently wealthy with the success of those ideas.
And most of them, ninety percent of the people believed we were headed to this financial depression again, and my views were no. We weren't.
In history. So, but I could not save my father's life from melanoma.
And it had a significant view here that it was the first
I'm in my life tat. I could not solve a problem. I could help rebuild a company. I might be able to help rebuild a country financially, but I cannot find decision. I ve,
they did. All these senior people and I went to the major medical centres travel with,
My dad and I concluded by nineteen seventy six that science could not move fast enough, no matter what I had done or could do to save my father's life. So I had made the decision then to move back to california so that my two children, my wife Lori and I two children at the time- would know my,
father before he died and he died about nine months after we move back to california, and then I moved families etc. Thousands of people back to California
So this has stayed with me: I've lost ten relatives to cancer and my diagnosis was worse than there
so, obviously on now reflecting what
am I gonna do and when it looked like, I had eighteen months to live, you have to figure out what could I do different than they did and the first decision I made as I would focus on anything, that's reversible. So for two years I did not eat em,
thing sip, fresh fruit and fresh vegetables, I had no idea whether would benefit me, but I figured it wouldn't hurt me.
And none of my relatives, friends who had died from life threatening diseases had ever change or died.
And as I explored the world on the cheap medicine in china,
or I read a medicine in india or witch doctors in the central part of africa.
Or indians in the north, west, amazon or healers from russia.
you know it came to me that I would really focus on our vain, a medicine and in their five thousand year history. The belief wiser got your micro biome wish
second brain, so everything you eat everything you drink everything you exercise everything you are experiencing is going in to your second brain. So I was gonna change. My
Second brain, even though there was no proof, you couldn't sequence at the time, and so that was a focus staring.
Pakistan- and I think the other thing I was very focused on- is that most people diagnosed with a life threatening disease,
Do the least they can do a day, one and if it really
curs later in life, they do everything they can to stay alive, but if
You had done more at the beginning, then you have had a better chance, and so once I had driven my cancer burden to, it appeared to be zero.
I then made the decision to have radiation, whereas someone else might have done nothing cause. I figured the burden was the least.
And so I set off on this journey thinking about my father and my relatives and friends, and I had a bunch of friends that I had interacted with that it passed away there.
How could I accelerate a size? So first I could try to change my body and this time we weren't talking crisper. We weren't talking about a technology,
there could change your genes that is still not wily to deploy, because
you dont know as we create a new human race, whether this is good or bad.
And so I set off on this journey of how to accelerate science, but that journey in science is not much different than my journey and finance or the journey. We took an education and what we did. I was going to try to attract the best and most talented people in the world
our work in this field and no matter how talented you were.
If you were the individual, they perceive, the future was mobile, phones or cell phones. Craig mccall
That was a good idea, but unless you had access to billions of dollars, you could never access that idea of europe.
Alma, gown and believed. Fiber optics would change and we could drive the cost over time
From twelve dollars a minute talk to Andy
the zero you
needed billions of dollars, so the same focus of attention, one attract the best and brightest to work in the field to bring enough financial capital to serve as a multiplier effect and three.
Create teamwork. Many organizations have people, there have real talent, but they don't act as a their own act as one.
and therefore, what I saw in medicine, there was no team.
There was not enough financial capital and many of the brightest people were not working in this field, so those were the first levels have is focused on, but that was no different. In education we had created a national educator award to attract the best and brightest into the field, and finance had searched out. The world's leading entrepreneurs provide
and capital and advice and help create teams for them, so that that was the revolution
began in ninety three in health care and medical research, and I face just as much resistance as I did in the financial revolution. The first comment:
eyes prove it well. Ninety, ninety three, you couldn't prove anything. I could show you an dodo evidence that, in places of the world where people were plant eaters, china.
Not mediators that the end
an inch of hormone driven cancers or diabetes was far less and in places that, though we had different diets fast food die, it was far more
So, yes, there was anecdotal evidence in so they said whoop
Why are you couldn't sequence, the human genome? You couldn't do anything and ninety ninety three in france,
Collins, who I met a ninety three set off on a journey to sequence. It wasn't
killed many many years later and billions of dollars that they complete that and I ll never forget
in nineteen ninety four, I had one of our scientific retreats with the world's leading clinicians in cancer and signed,
and I wanted to get a doctor David Haber who had found at the centre of a human nutrition phd empty, and you see a lie on the programme and the people in charge of the programme said. You know my work,
lose credibility. If we have this soft science ideas,
there's some relationship between what you eat and whether you're getting cancer, and they fought me and told me it would do grade.
What we are trying to build here is the leading cancer research group in the world
eventually reached a compromise with him. He we get to speak at lunch. I wrote about it. He would not be on the programme.
He would not have a microphone in if you wanted to listen, you had a sick, close and if you didn't want to be infected with his idea that there
might be a link
two, how you live your life and what you eat and what you drink in your health. You could just sit far away and won't have to twenty five years later CHE. Twenty five years later, I went to our scientific retreat. I was not in charge of the programming and maybe twenty percent of every session over four days.
It was cancer and your microbiome so initially putting forth ideas that challenge the status quo, whether it's finance, whether it's education or whether it's medical, are challenged later. There are accepted well accepted in any one, could have thought of that idea
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Yeah, no, I it's it so fast
because I feel like coming from
in background and my wife being an ironic health counselor, and you so
supposed the idea. Early on that you got health is such a big,
have your overall have for years,
right that until we see it in the research and science and beyond the anecdotes, we don't fool
he comprehend these ideas and
your accelerating that research. Now what would you say with
his challenges you saw when you entered the medical field in
search and in our treatment of diseases.
So I had entered the field in the early nineties, seventies for twenty years, but
was primarily a donor, etc, and, as I mentioned.
Science was not moving fast enough to save my father's life, so I'm and ninety three,
died. I couldn't help others if I couldn't help myself and I first had to survive, but there were those three elements: one teamwork.
Partnership, so I wrote about, I went to this empty Anderson
the two leading cancer centres, often on rated in the world, were either ending anderson or memorial, slung catherine in new york, one in houston, one in new york.
and I noticed there was no one from memorial, slung katherine at the cancer conference in Houston, and I told the person putting the conference on
Why is there no one here from memorial? Some catalonia for trying to accelerate research, and he told me
he viewed memorial, sloan, Katherine as a competitor, and I told him not to the patient. So therefore, once we promised funding fur
Research in this field, we would only fun if you share at all your data, and I ve
this gone on my board, Andy grove, who was the ceo of intel, and we worked on. This- is early technology with computers and connecting the-
We would connect oliver researchers digitally together.
might be easier for someone, an empty anderson to talk to someone memorial, slung catering, vs technology
Then someone else to find an empty anderson, but we
told them that we couldn't find
any of their research unless they share their data. Now some people told me: why have to wait for nature or sell magazine
They come out the story I'll be out in a year, and we told them that
the research was so important
They didn't need any of our funds. Will our funds were only for those who are willing to share, and I would say, within six months, everyone in the world
was willing to share and no matter how much we were-
aged and money. I was out there first recruiting the best and brightest and second trying to convince people who were thinking of leaving the field.
To stay in the field, and I wrote in the back a little bit about an individual who is being recruited to make better apples, and I was
successful in convincing him that we can live and still eat the same apples for maybe the next twenty years, but
people being diagnosed with cancer throughout the world and the fact it was going to be increasing, not decreasing, we couldn't wait for solutions, and so
and then the other element I would say to you- was government.
There is no individual. There is no foundation, my family foundations, which were created, and today there speed with our centres more than ten of them, nor bill gates and Melinda gates. The gates foundation plus warren Buffett, which has one,
is my largest foundation today in the world, the man of money they have.
Is small relative to the government. So we have, you can read direct the funds of the government
You now have access to hundreds of billions of dollars, they could be redeployed, and so
We spent two to three years making the economic argument
what the elimination of cancer was, but one did they challenges. When you talk about challenges, we were now
able, as a country to increase significantly, aren't vest.
then the national institutes of health, the largest medical research group in the world.
And I discovered in my analysis that one of the reasons was there were five hundred different diseases. Constantly appealing for more funds
so, unlike a laser
you had all these voices out there, whether its parkinson's, whether was alzheimer's, whether its diabetes.
There wasn't a focused request and so beginning
two years later and ninety five. I went to the various disease specific groups and said, if you
who will stand down? We will,
have a combined effort focused on cancer, all cancers.
Like a laser too dull,
Well, then, I ate budget
and we will work on that and when its doubled all
Medical research will double not just cancer.
They agreed, and so we put on a march, it took three years
all this data, etc, to show an interactive with our political leaders that this would be one of the best investments
country could make, and the leaders in the world and the twenty second century will be the leaders and the twenty first century and by all
And so with the march,
voting and ninety eight, the present the united states
shortly thereafter sign into law. What became the doubling of the and budget?
There's been an incremental five,
billion dollars in basic research spent.
It laid the groundwork for what we did to get a quick solution for cove at nineteen.
Every disease has benefited from it. The financial commitment
was ten million dollars in the march today there is a five hundred billion dour pay off. So the first efforts of individual philanthropy, the efforts of recruiting young scientists to work in the field, which is probably the highest rate of return in any philanthropy that I've seen the cause of teamwork, was
coupled now, with the increased benefit of getting the government focused on this very well, and I want to read out this is on page
one eleven of the book, we talk about a new type of organization and you ve lay out these. You know very clear
principles that you just speaking about right now says you said: recruit the best and brightest scientists and physicians focus on the career paths of these young
Investigate is required.
Collaboration in place of competition, build cross sector ties, identify the most promising research
not funded by the nih.
midnight needless bureaucracy and the list can
use, and I I mean you make it
down so easy. When I'm listening to you, I don't really like this, but I'm imagining that each one of these items took a lot of effort time. Energy
Did you make it sound, so seamless, but I I would love to know like how how challenging is it to galvanise it's such a large scale and level? So if you were at a parkinson's foundation or diabetes foundation in thousands of talented people, try
I'd to increase funding, but it was like there was a zero sum game. If I increase funding for diabetes, I had to take it away from someone else and so getting them to accept that they were on six
as for and to stand down and have faith it somewhat based on past performance in the financial investment they want business. They want to know. Ok, what's your past performance, do you have a track record, so we had a track record
of success to build on and and we didn't ask him to stand down for their lifetime. We just as some to stand down for a few months here, so we could focus like a laser our attention on this issue.
Eliminating cancers that cause of death.
And bring in the leading economies in the world was worth fifty.
brilliant dollars to the EU s economy.
In the early nineties, nineties multiples of what the economy, and so we could show their results. And so yes, you have to have a pass track record, convincing a person not to change
their career. I remember one of the world's leading chemist was been found to be given a job as the dean of the most prestigious university in the world, but he would leave
the laboratory. So I went and asked him.
who's running warner brothers. At the time it was two friends of mine, terry samuel and bob daily. He had no clue who is right.
I asked him: has he ever heard Steven Spielberg and he says yes, he's hurt Steven Spielberg, I said well, if
you become the dean. No one will ever hear of you, because Steven Spielberg took years to make movies and product you're working on breakthroughs here and vile science that
I changed. The world you becoming a manager of others might never changed the world, and so luckily he decided state when you think of young scientists, the hundreds or thousands
since then I ve out with you graduated high school. You were seventeen or eighteen years old.
you're, now thirty one! Thirty, two thirty three years old you ve gone to medical school. You got a phd, you had fellowships residencies end
ships and now you're ready for your own laboratory and there's no money, it's
very easy to make the decision to go into industry family practising give up your basic research, but if we can greet you at that time,
and give you your own laboratory and get the institution to match for a hunt.
Thousand dollars a year for three years you ve changed the career
And whether it's in our melanoma research alliance or whether it's in our faster
there group for all life threatening diseases or whether it send the prostate cancer foundation. If we have twenty five young scientists and they each shook and work for forty years by far
doing them at two and a half million dollars for the first year and each year you ve bought one
thousand years of their time, and when I look back over the thirty years too,
all these new therapies and have been created you,
we'll find a young scientists, a young person there, it's very anxious
at the national institutes of health. The first age that you get an award is forty three. If you look at whose one nobel prizes and science most p,
I have one for an idea they had when they were with.
a few years of school, James watson was in his twenties when he put forth his idea of we have genes, etc. You know so many einstein, I think, was twenty three
and so the idea that you're going to school in your stunning- and you have now spent
Fifteen years after high school and now we're going
tell you can wait another twelve years, it's ridiculous and so the system,
really was not prepared for the fact that we need
did he get the best and brightest and divert their careers younger, and so I have spent
more than thirty years working on this, the same thing we had worked on for
years ago, with educators, to try to get them to stay as an educator
when you go to india today, people are so confused today that think india is like China. There were
twenty three and twenty four million children born last year in india.
There were nine to ten million born in china more than twice as many children too
day. There are more than two hundred
million more children in india, then in China
china is more advanced digitally, but there is very few countries where the competition for education you know today is:
more significant, and they also have a belief in healthcare. Now
based on modern technology, but five
thousand years of an dodo experience. So yes, our theories that your gut happen proven to
true with modern sequencing technologies, and this year they just approved
giving the micro biome of one person who responded well did
treatment to another person. They didn't respond well admitting that, because they have a different got,
they're gonna, respond well and how their genes are expressed or how the therapy there given is can be expressed differently. But
and he had five thousand years of experience of. If you did this that happen,
when I went to the northern amazon northwest amazon.
Here I am dressed head to toe and I wrote it.
it all in black.
In our indian guide, has a parish short sought and that's it he's immune to everything
I'm not immune to anything and he takes me off
when he says what we use this bush,
against malaria, and we use this for this Annie
Those me there's any says. If we ever get separated, you can hack this bush and drink the water inside,
then he goes any housemaid, but don't drink the water in this boy she could kill yourself
both look the same to me. Ok for them!
So I got a rope and we tied it around his waist in my ways, so we would never understand
raided, as we are hacking and through the jungle in so.
I think the world today is adjusting to what have we learned over thousands of years that we didn't taken
said a and the environmental movement, the effort here in healthy human, healthy planet.
is totally interrelated. Absolutely where you found as your.
I guess the things that your most happy about that prove to you. The research is going in the right direction. What are you pointing towards is successes or solutions, while, let's just took about too that the world has fallen,
Chef, HIV, aids.
The number one talk show host.
Not the number one health care podcast in the world in nineteen. Eighty seven oprah winfrey goes on television and tells the people of amerika that one in five are going to die from aids in the next three years. That's based on her work.
Well, unfortunately, many people died, but we didn't have eighty million people die. We had tens of thousands and the cocktails and the anti virus
there were created so when one of the most popular people in the united states, magic, johnson,
on seven nineteen, ninety one there
He was diagnosed with HIV is gonna, have to retire at its peak of his career,
from the nba most people, including myself, thought he might not make today's to friend he's participate in our fast
Your cures effort he's bigger than life. His smile is bigger than life its thirty two years later,.
Where do we see it the most when you say where their results? Look at sub saharan africa too,
third of everyone with hiv and aids lived in sub saharan africa
You wanted to go work there. They wanted you to work. Thirty years ago they paid. You compact pay out of fear that you could be infected well today,
the chance of a woman with proper care passing aids onto children, is two percent down from ninety five. So the population of sub saharan africa is growing
children that were orphans or are no longer born with HIV people
they hiv and aids are living today, not dine, and what do we just see in the last three years during covert
The leaders and the state that you and I are in today, California told californians there.
one in two californians are going to get the disease and the next three months.
and that five million of people in California we'll have to be hospitalized, but there's only a few hundred thousand hospital beds. It was
the catastrophe, more than a million people died in america more than ten or twenty million worldwide, but it wasn't fifty percent of the population, it wasn't ten percent of the population and it was only sixty three days between the sequencing of the virus and the first human being getting a vaccine sixty three days, nine weeks, not ten years.
and so that is why I wrote the book. Ok wrote the book because we are on the verge.
Of a total revolution, the same as I saw and finance in health care today with technology, and so it's time
put your foot on the accelerator and go faster, not time to ease up, because we think we have put into suspended animation this pandemic, and so that was my concern.
there were these points of the march and ninety eight. There was this point of the celebration of science in two thousand and twelve, and there is a point here the day that people don't have to die for the first time in history.
We have a good chance to cure your disease in your own lifetime. If we stay with it, my
How can me and my community support these efforts? How can people be involved? How can be will be engaged if they feel inspired by war?
doing in and the work that you leading on. How can they get involved because I think that's often,
You know what your sharing is a healthy future, which I think we all want
but naturally we often people get discouraged because of headlines and
who's in everything that we see around us. There were a lot of things laughing offered a true that are in the headlines, it'll just the concept of healthy human, healthy plan,
Such a large percentage of the earth today
devoted to raising animals. Seventy to eighty.
billion animals for humans to each and that doesn't count the billions
a fish, we are on the verge of essentially being able to create a hamburger without a calf without a cow,
now for a person in india who doesn't need a hamburger, doesn't make any difference. Ok, but if weak
growing in the laboratory and just give of light and energy and nutrients. We don't have to go through the whole process.
This of all the water require
all the lan required to grow physical animals. So, yes, we can grow food in the laboratory, and now it has just been approved to allow this to occur. We needed to get the costs down
to be thirty thousand announce then went to three. Now it's a few hundred
It's only a matter of time where we can have a substantial change in the planet. A friend of mine put up the money to do it.
called draw down and draw down listed the twenty major factors
there were changing our atmosphere and the environment. The earth is in.
Ten of them relate to food. Ten of them relate to other things, and so we have a chance
And the environmental movement combined with the health moment science today can show you
what happened? So we know today that were all these vegetables on the planet, for, if you believe in darwin, what's the purpose of broccoli colleague flout brussels? Flouts these things are a little pack, man they're out there eating ok carcinogens. In your body, we ve learned today
That's your immune system can do amazing things, and I wrote about it when I first heard cheer malleson talk and nineteen nineties
given that your immune system is smarter than all the scientists in the room, but so
and turned off your immune system and that's
Are you gonna life's right in disease? Ok and that occurred, and so
He developed and won a nobel prize for the concept of checkpoint inhibitors and we financed is.
work for ten years and prostate cancer. It wasn't that effective, but the
and ass. We move to melanoma the death rate, has dropped by fifty percent and so what he did his we turned off the switch and the cancer that turned on
the european system, the idea of growing your own organs.
There are now people that have had organ transplants from others. Take these drugs to prevent rejection by their own amuses.
Well it mass general in Boston. Other things there are looks like yours now, a technology that you can in port to a certain degree, the immune system,
person that don't nature organ to use, so you'll have to immune systems. So when you get that organ, you dont need rejection, european systems will be operating, so technology is just move me. None of face of surgery when I watch star trek as
can the doktor bombs he didn't. Do any invasive surgery put a little thing on your body and did everything. Well, that's what non invasive focus ultra sound can do so. The promise the promises with us today and so we're just
trying to get a mission here. Going to make sure we stay with our efforts that the world
mobilise when you look at what happened in the months of covert
one. I came back and told everyone at every one of our centres that we will all be judged by what we did during this period of time.
This episode is brought to you by beyond meat. If you're looking for plant based.
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On me today and start. Your new journey on purpose is supported by eighty ain t, the original
Magda and the driving force of connectivity ever since and today
connected world opens up infinite possibilities. For example, maybe you want to change career paths parts but you're worried it's too late. Well, it's not! Our purpose is now
linear today. Finding your purpose is easier than ever. Thanks to the kind of connectivity. Eighty indeed provides.
allowing you to explore and grow and reach out across the world in ways that just one possible even decades ago. So take your time connect with your interests, change your path and your purpose connecting changes. Everything. Eighty anti, I'm not it didn't- want to compete with you, but we learn
podcast a hundred and twenty five of them, and the reason I launched them was threefold one. If I'm talking about
and says collins. They headed the energy age. I want you or anyone else to hear what you say.
Anyone in the world could listen. I might be able to
onto the ceo of Alex score. Gorsky Jane, Jane, most people couldn't, but you can listen to the conversation to by talking to him. I can increase
british them may be to take action. They wouldn't have taken. So when I first spoke to Alex gorsky an apron this pod cast, he was talking about maybe
Joining the clinical trials in january of twenty one, and so my comment was why not july which he ended up doing and it was approved by january, and so the third effort was to see how people were coping. So if I
onto the largest employers in the world who had employs over the world? What were they doing in china, italy, etc? That you
I'd be doing in the united states if you were in responsible for thousands or tens of thousands or in the case of a walmart millions, some. What are you gonna be doing and when I spoke to the sea of target
He told me that he was protecting their employees, but
happen was when people who lived in small, living in and apartments came into the store with their king.
The kids were running all over the store and so
how you gonna, protect the kids and how you gonna protector workers and so
This had to be had to be done in a short period of time
today, I am no longer doing podcast undue referring to you, but for me I meditated it made a big difference
think and my outcome, I went.
to the leaders
and she in the world- and I discovered the smell of the sea shore
and the smell of a certain kind of trees. Sequoia cedar trays seem to energize my immune system, and so, when we think of the senses, smell taste touch all of
he's come into play in rejuvenating your body, so I used to set at high tide and smell the seashore I was
I. Why did that energized may mean system? I have no idea accept. We came out of the sea, so maybe that was returning to this.
And the smell of the pine needles and things like that.
maybe it was relating when I was young with my father site. I don't know, but my view was we don't use all of our senses.
And we understand one of them:
things irate brought. Me was understanding of so many different elements of touch
so why I had a chance to see things that I never thought I would see in my life. I visited a man in china. She done
who is over ninety years old, and he told me if he came out of the mountains. He would die for money,
put his hands on me. He could create such unbelievable heat. How did he do that? I have no idea, ok, but it gave you a chance to expand
seeing different things, and just like the two young men from Australia who challenge conventional wisdom and the first three action was they didn't even go to a good university. Why should we be listening to them? And then, a few years later, everybody
He accepts it, and so I've found these similarities in my life, whether it was in finance whether it was in public health, whether its in medical research, but it all comes back to the people
on your team. So when I was in india, if india's plain pakistan in quick, nothing else is going on
Ok, they could be arguing in fighting about anything, but you have to take time out for their game, and so there are things that focus your attention and part of this effort is this concept of healthy human, healthy planet? Yes, technology has saw so many problems for us, but I think what I've tried to do, particularly in the last thirty years, I have gone from an extremely unhealthy diet.
ok to any stream. For the first nine years I got my iron veda massages twice a week for nine years,.
and so I was willing to do things that I would have scoffed at in the nineteen seventies. Sixties eighties is way out there
kay but today on visiting with you today on the happiest sky, had to do a pod cas with the fifth thirty years later, because I changed the world changed and going forward. We're gonna have to make more changes more
Adoption of thinks it's very hard, it's very hard in the united states. Today we now have this quote diabetes pill back, patently controls your appetite and your weight, ok
so zambia. So it's a lot easier than having personal discipline. For me.
I ate more hot dogs, I believe.
Then anyone except those people that, when the nathan's hot dog- ah ha not ass, an
Well, we can eat fifty to sixty hotdogs and buns in that short period of time. I have no idea, but no hot dog was worth your life, but not every one, and when I found most people don't want to be lectured on
diet or what they should eat or not eat an when you scupper things like a nobel prize winner, Elizabeth blackburn, about what sugar does to you.
So what happen when mexico put a tax on sugar or chilly, put a tax on, they increased their advertising, as sales fell off and the same thing occurs. Unfortunately, the developing world is subject to this advertisement and these addicted
foods and drugs as they move around the world in china. Literally no one had diabetes forty years ago. You didn't even study it in school, and now people in china have the most number of people die.
babies in the world and there's no way of regulating that.
Government level laura does know what, because I fear I agree with you- I mean you know. I think that
we're all now becoming more and more aware of the amount of sugar in sugary drinks, the amount of in our unhealthy fashion,
the carbohydrates, the amount of you know whatever it may be, or the amount of artificial,
even even in speaking of plant based foods, even the current like plant based, you know, fruits?
They're not all healthy, they so
Is there no way to make sure that,
at a higher level that we don't even get access to these, or is it just a discipline, comes as no. I think we will be there.
the idea that you can take a calf, a self from a calf, not a calf, but a cell.
If we can find an animal, then never was shot with hormones. More than fifty percent of all the drugs are shot into animals, so you might think you that you're, healthy and you're not taking things, but what you ate dick.
and so, but I think, we'll have an entirely new food chain and twenty to thirty years, if you look at companies, the market has adjusted, and I wrote of battle
the book. So at one time craft was so
weighing between ninety in a hundred dollars issue
Oh no word is today called thirty. Five to forty wow nest. Sleigh announced that they were going to become a health company
What was the market reaction, social media or action? First, they give you diabetes.
then they're going to deal with it. There are three sixty they create their own problems. It centres
naturally one out and hired a ceo, not from the consumer packaging, but his seal who worked in healthcare.
and they sold their candy business in the united states. They sold other businesses and they focus to hear on healthy businesses, etc and naturally has flourish.
The market is willing to pay more for that. In yes,.
the first iterations of plant based diet to make a taste we don't know.
there any better with all the
ingredients they put in, but the ability to grow the same as the ability to day we can take. Your skin stem cell turned back to the day. You were born and tell it it's now: heart stem cell, it's you and then give it energy
Light energy nutrients- and you can see today in a little petri dish, these cells beating, like they're a heart and soul
we'll be able to create pure foods, not contaminate the planet in the future, and so this is what technologies promises and that, once again, that's why I wrote the book
I'm your busy I'm busy. It's not easy to write a book. You just finished a tour of more than forty cities in the world on your new book, and so it's not
She did take the time. The analogy I have made as there was this show in the united states called I love lucy and lucille ball was packaging. Chocolate
it's coming down the lie in their work.
Went down faster than she could pack and so she's podium here, she's putting him in her mouth and everything what you gonna do
So my life in your life, there's plenty of things, were focused on I've. Probably given fifty speeches in the last month.
But to set the time down was my concern
here, that we have a chance technology has given us a chance for the solution for all these life threatening diseases. We estimate there's ten thousand life threatening diseases that fast.
Our centre for faster cures has looked at and their solutions for five hundred, so
there is a lot of work to do.
And we are on the verge, with the use of technology having the ability to do
Thank you MIKE ever has been listening and watching the book is called faster cures exit,
waiting. The future of health grab a copy right now,
if your listening
and I hope that this is one of those episodes that you share with a family member, a friend of yours
that may really want to listen to it, and I want you to share your insides on social media, whether on twitter, instagram, tik, tok share the clips share them.
Suggests, share the insides of wisdom that might shared with us today
with your communities as well, because I think this conversation on
improving our own personal, healthy, so needed, especially looking at how the world is trying to fight,
new innovative ways to help us deal with it? Mike we end, every on bob is episode with a final five. These questions have-
beyond it in one word to one sentence.
maximum for each question and so
I commend these. Are your final five? The first question is: what is the best advice you ve ever received? Do the research as crayons, who never had
my second question is: what is the worst advice you ve ever heard or received you'll, learn it from the newspaper,
the guy's a number three? What do you do first thing in the morning and the lasting before you go to bed? I say
low to my wife and good warning, and I give her a kiss before I go to bed at night we ve known each other. Sixty five years we ve been married for fifty five
errors, and so that's do first thing in the morning and last thing: that's beautiful question
for about that. What would be your
number one lesson. From the sixty five years you ve been together. If you had to say there is one thing that has been the most powerful lesson you ve learned.
in love. What would that be see the world through someone else's eyes, gray, advice, gray, advice. I love the fifth and final
Gin, if you could create one law in the world that everyone had to follow, what would it be treat others, as you would like to be treated
beautiful. My mail. Can everyone? Thank you so much for listening to on barbarous. I hope you enjoy this episode. I hope you share it and I'll
you'll, join us for the next one? Thank you so much more
thank you so much so desire you generous, and in several today it's been a joy talking to likewise. Thank you, sir.
If you love, is absurd. You'll enjoy my interview with doktor Daniel Ayman on how to change your life
by changing your brain if we
want a healthy mind. It actually starts with healthy. You know I've had
Blessing sooner the curse,
scan over a thousand convicted talents and over
hundred marks and their brains fairly damage these.
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Transcript generated on 2023-12-06.