This is exactly right, Looking first story to real you in and keep you hoped look no further than you are the original. The debutante is an investigative journey telling the story of one of the most devastating crimes to take place on american soil from it. Lord winning journalists, John Robinson, the debutante unravels, the mystery of carol, how a deputy turn radicalism turned undercover informant at the centre of this unbelievers. Story runs in uncovers the fascinating truth about how, through rare court, tapes, cover, surveillance, audio and diary entries. Here's a john rounds and is one of the best authors. Journalists He has an amazing podcast. I we've talked about his books on our podcast before and I am so excited to listen to the debutante he's one of the best and I'm sure it's gonna. Be me. That's going to be ethic park, conspiracy, theory and part mystery

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and work so much murder her? That's georgia, hard, sir? I that's caring, kill, gareth and are you ready for asylum package now, some pakistan, but by the same, This is about papa. Do you love me? I did. We simply tell you sorry. If you found this and the true crimes section of your podcast, it's been. this label the at this time. Well, now we got some feedback. You know in there and what we and from the poles in the could be. No. These things is that people want to hear about football

we the what's great about it is we want to talk about four turns out this whole time. We postpone obsessed with a bar. We were keeping it to ourselves. I wonder why we don't wanna play bragging all the time, but with loving now, we're not gonna be like first down this and dutch back. That is not our soil. You know, that's funny, look guys. Obviously, doing a hilarious sketch, but I spent the weekend mighty had I went home for easter, I watched so much golf. now because it is the masters that by the end of the week- and I was cheering and yelling forgot- I don't think you're supposed to do that. Are you you're supposed to keep her voice way down your plaid pants where, but it was really funny. I like is that if you sit

a humongous tv long enough, you kind of get into anything at all. You are like figures and watch and in competition, your gun, aside with someone, even if its alone are not interested in five fishing but say for real, and I think I was observing this myself. I didn't share it with my father, but I think there's something about dudes, like professional golfer This was the masters a ton of leg profession golfers, an one amateur older, quarterly ask me anything. You ve, never, but there's so serious, an intense and everyone's like you say that quiet and kind of doing a golf club, and whenever the view I am here triggered romantically by wherein, like. Oh my god, he would. We ignore me if I was there and then your life

Now I love in the professional golfer in upholding the biggest stern I'm. The guy you open a bio on whatever jade ate like turnarounds withholding men, men who withhold their emotion. Yes, please withholds, and also please have a pale from your forehead. The down to your upper lip is pale and then the rest of your face is deeply tanned because they always where the exact same like riderless baseball, have rights. yeah. Well now we now that was my weekend. How is your we had had? It was good, I say those crazy, It makes our friend Lauren cook. It was our birth and all she wanted to do was play this like it was a white elephants.

Style game, oh, but it's hardcore and shit hockey and like fast and crazy, it's like a dice game and it was so much fucking of the most fun I've had at a party so long it was still a mingling like trying to think of something to talk about with each other. It was like running around us. stealing pratt presence from people grabbing grabbing that no fuck You know a like Daniel, highly minute dance breaks. It was so much fun, I'm in a dance face was: did she make it? I mean she's, a writer my began, I think, like the friend may had made it up a couple years when they play their mandate? So I just had the most I'm like your present got picked last year. Where stupid. How about you just legs? That's great rules. It was so much fun. What was the best present vince still come hard with a snoopy snow cone maker,

shit. So people were like fighting for people daphne wanted that I had like a nice plants that are put in a beautiful pie that was like. Luckily, not it was a little nerdy, but not to an already that the people's didn't want it. Everybody wants a plan. I may sweetened it by attaching ten scratch errors. yeah. I was like that's done, but I like scratches yeah see. I was really go. That's an can You say without hurting anyone's feelings. What the worst presently, I will tell you, who ended up in the hat, is our is friend of the pact has shown array he brought a flip cup game like someone manufactured flipped out of his I've used plastic someone but someone soul. The kid for flip cap yeah like go like gopher you're saying I don't want to hear about it and they had a very big guy. You know. That's that's so funny, and I tons amazing, because every time there is ever been a white elephant

usually it's at a job it turns into, especially if it's like you, we are working on it. When he saw whenever it gets intense because people- don't they just don't, know Cares about being polite, like yeah at a comedy, show where that, obviously, so I think the purpose There was one like that and I had forgotten. I knew we are set to do it. I forgot to get something so I just player a hundred dollars in an envelope and turned it into a is made it crazy, because some people were mad like that's a value and other people are like out of my way. I want that how it was pretty funny yeah. This is, I highly recommend parties with the game instead of a second mink, vixen mingle man, and were you able to visited lake up, you people or was it was the twenty, so it per diem perfect yeah yeah it was, it was great. You know it's really funny like that. First of all, we're both talking about like a party and apposite

the way, which I think is great yeah, a lot of progress, rare so flying home today, and I realize I observed that this has happened a bunch before its easter week, end like after easter. We can. I fly home, suddenly it's hot I had to heat around in my house, and I'm like I have to turn from the heat or two conditioner yeah, seventy eight today, suddenly, it's like spring has sprung word with whatever we were doing before heartily. Hardly so I lay it and it's like I loved it. Just has that it feels like it has that energy like pierre, its Let's do this saying, let's party, let's wear shorts again, please I'm excited about, even though I dont have any shorts but I'll buy them this year. This is the year of the shore. Yeah? That's right, you can a buy them or b. You can cut your nose off, can make sure it's the get, go, get your dog, it's short and cut those things

sal hardware- dockers. Yes, they do. How do I get it? Should we get into should you I m sure we do exactly right corner? Yes, let's do it I thank everyone for sending in non violent and non depressing tv suggestions for me to watch. While I'm doing tm ass owed, you get some good ones. I got some great when's transgression magnetic stimulation as witnesses and a lot of people also wrote in about having done it said. I was really courtiers thanks, guys, o nice, oh wait! Did you see it? Somebody hold them out. Let me find it just real quick shasta whose twitter handle is pin up wannabe. She wrote to us and said lady these new brock's jelly beans deserts of the world. Did you see this for easter frocks and guys we this independent endorsement actually through shasta, so we're trusting shasta, but these ones in a wee wee love a brock's,

you know what kind of jellybean challenge every holiday, but because its easter, they did so the deserts of the war I'm not sure. Oh yes, lemon sorbet, ok, apple pie, yeah strawberry, mochi. Here and chocolate, macro hall. Oh, I need this rate. Doesnt looked. It does not good, you know that I'm obsessed, which arose in a really deep deep way is that she heard a kind of lose my mind when I see it car like in a really young way. That is just deep inside of me. you get that feeling where you're afraid, if you say, I'm gonna, get it sure of someone's gonna say no.

You can have as it were, you're not allowed to may raise. I definitely was turned down for a lot of deserts. As a child said a healthy, healthy parents, so yeah, it's not the same, having a caribou cookie, dad as it surer care care of my dad was related I have what a fucking pair of you know that, because it's brown, it's also brown brown brown, get away. Okay, sorry to interrupt with that. No that was good to know like very good, to know. Yeah. Thank you, shasta yeah, okay. So this week over in the exactly right corner this week, I'm buried bones, Kate, winkler, dawson and paul holes covered the great shady murder case. I actually covered the storing episode to await that. We did live at the orpheum. theatre in omaha, I'm twenty nineteen, so they're going to do. Varied bones version, which is to be thoroughly

Please hurry and actually technically spoken of and I love and their stocks on across For two words like do remember this story. Will holland kate tell it to you now? I love it there, the professionals yeah and on parent footprint, doktor day is joined by Mary Louise Kelly anchor of all things considered on NPR, what a forgotten huge gatt subscribed to the pot cast its apparent incur costs, but it's more than that. You don't have tat kids to habitats about repairing yourself It's about taking care of your inner child. It's about pair as well all ages and now you know all issues anything you need it's such an incredibly beautiful pod cassa. Please check it out and they also have new artwork that were so proud of and love. So much to please check out parent footprint. Also so dont forget to follows: instagram at my favorite murder. The handle is at my favorite earner because we are now posting the recommendations corner. So as your listening in something

panic and their driving and they feel like they need to pull over, to write things down. Not any more that are literally something someone wrote in like. Thank god. I That's right! It's a pull over and write this anymore. It's waiting for you on the instagram and, lastly, we launched or annual spring sail and the amazon store lots of plastic items are on discount, including a few things from other. Exactly right shows, including march from I said, no gifts, and that must happen as eu. You podcast so go shop now at my favorite murder, dot com until Monday April, twenty fourth, before we start, I have a sad notes that I wanted to to bring up a friend of mine, Stevens Ashley morrison known as youngest old cat lady on instagram. She started her own cat rescue and she was a foster of cats and choose just this amazing person but she was also very open about her mental health struggles, which I always admired about her. I met her through this punk asked she sadly took her own life recently,

I just wanna to acknowledge what an incredible person she was and also to anyone who is struggling to please reach out, because her book was not over her, it was. It was not over. She had so much more in life together, and so please reach out to do two friends to family nine. Eight eight is the national suicide hotline number where you can call or text. So please just reach out to someone in other words, she was such a bright, beautiful person we're going to donate ten grand in her name to them not alliance on mental illness. That's a m. I dot org. So please check that out and give your cat a hug for ashley morrison. So sad, that's so rough that ain't no feel for her. If you're struggling with stress burnout, anxiety or have trouble sleeping cerebral can help cerebral

offers one hundred per cent online personalized mental health care plans that include therapy and medication management. You can choose clinician from cerebral that it and train team of experts and attend to all of your sessions from the comforting convenience of your own home, get stuff with or without insurance, and only pay, one flat monthly rate get an exclusive fifty percent off your first month with cerebral dot com, slash wondering that's a rebel calm, slash wondering for fifty percent off your first month with cerebral. This podcast is supported by massive a leader and army insurance are visa for sharing adventures with family friends and even your pets. So if you bring your cat. Dogs, along for the ride, you'll want progressive, harvey insurance. They protect your cats and dogs like family by covered

up to one thousand dollars in vet bills in case of an rv accident, making it a great companion for the responsible pet owner who loves to travel, see progressives other benefits and more when you quote: rv insurance at progressive dot com today, progressive casualty, insurance company and affiliates pet injuries and additional coverage and subject to policy terms. Mom's are amazing: it tracking down hard to find items, library, books, socks, you name it, but sometimes help us welcomed care. Dot. Com makes it easy, to find babysitters near you sitters with the experience and skills your family needs like after school pick up and homework help you just posted job for qualified sitters to apply and said, all care, dot, com, caregivers or background checked. You can feel conflict about interviewing and hiring together child help. You need sign up now at cared outcome and now it's time to part,

how strange at football baby? Are you ready to about ready to papa you? You throw the first touchdown right, I guess I'm in a quarter back it and wide receiver it to myself rights. While you watch and ask any questions, feel free to ask. You when the coin pass, their coin commune bhopal, maybe at the beginning to kick it ass, you want it or it's, either quaint house or the boys. in the center, and they talk about coins that they, like, oh and then agree. Everyone has to say so. vulnerable and whoever opens up the most that their team go first For dollar yeah, that's right, gas, see football exclusive. Now, ok! So this story. I am past if this story has been recommended to us by listeners. Definitely by british listeners. This is a really, of course, horrible story, It's a case about a murder of a person that was really a

word and well known in the uk, germany, to tell you about the murder of Helen Bailey. Ok, the sources marin used for story are Helen baileys own blog, which was called planet grief. Also, there is a twenty seventeen channel, five documentary called murdered by my fiance. There is also a twenty seventeen bbc news. Article entitled Helen Bailey, a life shaped by death by jody. How fared and all the rest of the sources are in our show notes. It's Friday April, fifteen. Twenty six: in invoiced in england, and fifty five year old in Stuart calls. Ninety nine, which is the uk version of nine one one and he tells the operator he has seen his fifty one year old, fiance Helen Bailey in four days, although he thinks he knows where she is because she left him a note. He says Helen wrote that she was headed her vacation home in coastal town of broadstairs, first, some much needed one time and she asked not to be contacted. Broadstairs is

I d, like literary haven in the south east of england and Helen, is an accomplished author, she's written both young adult fiction, she's, also written on the topic of grieving and bury meant her ability to convey her difficult experiences. Emotions and vulnerabilities have struck a chord with british readers, she's popular someone say she's adored, so Helen friends and family members find this story of prompt. You get away extremely out of character for people who know and love her its deeply weird the idea that she would isolate and be out of touch. Just isn't how Helen worse through things when there is a problem in me Lee there's just kind of a what's actually going on here. The ninety nine operator. Helen must have taken the train out to broadstairs, because she's left her car behind. He also says that Helen stocks and boris has disappeared. So

as he's telling the operator this information, he starts to get flustered even in and Helen, have been together for four years. He is struggling to answer even the most basic questions about her when the operator asks her height is. He can only give an estimate when she asks what color Helen eyes are. He has no idea when the operator ask for hellenes birthday. He says he has to go. Look at our words in him now that seems I'd. Yes, I literally edge yesterday watched a tick, tock, video or someone's interview in couples in the street. Yeah, in our view, are literally asks these exact questions here, too husbands and boy friends very happy couples regarding their smiling. These men don't know their way middle name, they don't know their wives, parents names. What's yes, they don't know their birth date. They don't know their eye color. Now some of them are boys and girls

some of those little details like eye color and height. I wouldn't expect like I don't yeah. I wouldn't expect until your teeth in a relationship to now I know for sure, but yes, sort of his name's stuff, like that blair I I'm only bringing it up, because you know there's always these things were here these stories and then hold in a certain way right, and so it's always like that suspicious idiotically that suspicious it isn't really when you know that kind of, like a lot of deeds, are paying attention to anything but themselves spread. Maybe also this attack, video could have been edited just to be case scenario, but he only it was funny and surprising where these girls are standing next to their boyfriends. Luckily I like seriously you, oh no, my mom's, nay, my middle name, o my god. What's going on so anyway that to be said, we no, it was questionable behaviour or strange behaviour when someone has disappeared totally and the hardest part. Is this conversation

That means having on ninety nine is the beginning of what we become a nation wide searched for Helen Bailey. So let's talk about Helena That she's born in newcastle, upon tyne england in nineteen, sixty four and grows up nearby panty land I've been given the the pronunciation. I dont trust it at that, and I dont want to be alone, for it, but apparently it's panty land from an early age, Helen's said to be incredibly observant, an expressive later right on our blood planet grief that quote, I've always loved putting pen to paper as a child. I wrote pages and pages of lupi squiggles, pretend joined up writing which to me were thrilling stories, but to anyone else must have does if I was writing more trapped in a tumble drier, you can just tell you. No soap smell, so charming lay this is the person would be so easy to read her at her writing. So it's unsurprising there

Once the hellenes done with school, she gravitate towards a creative career and she starts working for peace, when london based licensing company, that represents huge brands like eighty and guard yielding snoopy. You like jag, worldwide brands, yeah and she of their job, and then she also finds love at this job. In her early twenties Helen falls for an executive at the company name johnson field and before long there, a couple move into a north london home together, and they get married ninety ninety six and then in two thousand eight. They get their docks and bore essen round out the family. Ah, so around the same time Helen. Throws yourself back into her writing and she credits her work at the licensing company teaching her how to develop a strong main character so she's looking at like. Why does everybody loves snoopy? Where are we still talking about garfield as their the distinctive

and funny and interesting characters at this. time, Helen has developed a distinctive, confident voice of her own. Her writing is quickie, fast funny and incredibly smart and she s a publishing over twenty books with young adult novels becoming her specialty, and her catalogue includes the beloved electra brown series that follows a sometimes we sometimes shallow thirteen year old, named electra and it's a total hit with british teens so as well, approaches, her mid forties life, a steady, its comfortable and creatively fulfilling and then in twenty levin. It all changes that year on a trip to bar with her husband tragedy strikes One morning as Helen sits on the beach John goes out, first swim and as Helen watches, John gets caught in a rip current and swept out into deeper water. she can hear him calling for help struggling and then he disappears. A group of tourists

gender, the ocean and pull him out onto the beach, but it's too late johnson field is dead at sixty five years old. Oh, my god, that's heartbreak horrible, I mean, just a worst case scenario in every way, so of course Helen in total shock. Her husband of twenty two years has just drown in front of her would later right about her thought process. In this horrible moment she writes quote, but I'm wearing bikini, it was inconceivable that something so tat what could happen while I'm wearing swimwear it was the absurdity of it so after losing John. The absurdity of death is something that Helen thinks about constantly none of what's happened, makes any logical sense to her in an instant I she had with John is completely gone, and now she just has boris and the two come inseparable. Helen is rarely seen without him and from this point forward

doesn't right any more young adult books for a while she doesn't anything at all, which of course, is horrifying to her as a lifelong writer and then one day she decides she's, going to turn her sadness and for writing exercised. So she starts a blog and she names at planet grief, and she, challenges herself to regularly right about how she's coping with johns death the posts on planet grief are tragic and heartfelt and wistful and angry their posts about mindless watching sitcoms, struggling through holidays and preparing I, for one, boris regularly makes cameos, but hellenes posts are also very me in one she writes quote. I have two fantasies at the moment: the first as popping my clogs by spontaneous human combustion, therefore, thereby proving it does exist whilst being able to join my husband, now that one got me. The second is becoming the sole winner of the euro. Millions lottery. This

because I want to buy a bigger house. This one is small, but it feels depressingly empty or a faster car, the average speed and so the london, is file miles an hour. So little point in trading up to the fear. Five hundred, but because I could in a culinary sense, like Elton John, and have a team of chefs offering me a menu of tasty morsels. So soon, planet grief thousands of loyal readers, many struggling with their own loss and Helen's blog comes an online community for the bereaved. It's something that she welcomes and He's also begun to join online support groups to connect with other grieving people, and then months after the death of her husband. She meets a man in a facebook support group for widows and widowers named in Stuart and lives in basle. When england about fifty miles north of london and, like Helen he's, recently lost his spouse diane in twenty tender

and died after an epileptic seizure. While she was home alone so Helen indian bond over the shared sudden losses of their life partners and soon their online relationship escalates into something more according to hellenes and family incomes on very strong, pushing their relationship forward. In fact, sunday. Meat in real life in shows up at hellenes, london, home and announced normally that might be a complete red flag to Helen and her family is definitely concerned. But at that moment in her life and feels like a gift, he makes Helen feel special loved and secure and within two years of meeting on mine, Helen cells, her london, home and, along with boris, move into a new house, embraced in with an things continue to evolve. Quickly in Helen and ends relationship the next year. Helen rights,

ninja her will. That's it it's a necessary, although I guess, if you just lost someone in your grieving, it's probably something that yeah yeah, you think about a lot more than most people do exactly that's what most people say is. She knows how it feels to suddenly re, not only the grieving, but having to deal with all the horrible disney of lakes after months dyed her. So there definitely people who theorize was the reason and he had gone through too said they both kind of understood it. They understood it and you know in a way. I think that is this huge kind of active for us that we don't know how that came up, but it might have felt good to be like. Oh, this is almost like a a way of committing ass, a symbolic gesture, yeah mary a kind of adult mature way of doing it, but also red flag arises, like the hum

on the other side of all of the isle. Of that. However, you dont like em, so she gives both and her brother john power of attorney, also which grants both men, the authorities important health, financial and administrative decisions on hellenes behalf. If she should be ever ever become sick or incapacitated so ass. She approaches the edge fifty Helen valley is worth around for me in pounds, and she also owns like three different. properties that are very valuable. So it makes a lot of sense. You ve arranging her affairs in this way, but she also she also one to ensure that in who isn't as wealthy as she is, is cared for in her absence. So a year passes now, it's twenty fifteen and Helen does something that just a few years before felt impossible to her. She publishes a new book. It's a compilation of her planet grief, blog posts,

called when bad things happen in good bikinis. I doesnt yeah, it's so like gracefully you can kind of gracefully in humorously handle the absolute shit you ve been dealt in life. It's really something! I'm sorry. I didn't read the whole title: it's one bad things happen and good bikinis life after death and a dog called boris even though this book is about grief and laws and the absurdity of death there's something joyful about it and the cat or prominently features boris sitting on top of a green animal print. Bikini an inside Helen writes about her. Hopeful. Her new relationship has made her, in fact that education. Reads quote this book is dedicated to my gordon gray, haired, widower and Stuart baby. I love you, you are my happy ending yeah, so

publication of one bad things happen in good. Bikinis feels like hellenes full circle moment: she's built herself back up after experiencing the horrible laws and she and he continue to share their home and eventually they become engaged by early twenty succeed. The two have been together for, for years and are inching closer to a wedding day, and everything seems perfect. and then Helen goes missing. So that brings us to April twenty seen in being on the phone, with minor, nine and basically triggering a nationwide search for and Bailey, but police are totally stopped. There is absolutely no trace of Helen once heard from her. No one seen her. She has now I have been captured on cctv, footage near her multiple properties and the last communication police Definitely linked to her is an email sent just

for eleven am on Monday April. Eleventh, that's the same day in claims. He last saw Ellen in its unclear what Helen rights in the email we just note was sent to one of her friends and after that, there's nothing communication anywhere, so weak passes and investigators who have zero leads think their best course of Action is to focus squarely on Helen and ends home and worrisome wherein still lives there. Hopefuls something inside of the home can point toward her location. so to make sure that their covering their bases, the police, methodically search the large property over the course of several weeks, and they also interview in and so in, peace, the same story. He told the operator when he called claiming memory is hazy here through his activities on April eleventh. He says he I've seen Helen in the afternoon before leaving for a three p m doctors appointment. Then he ran

You errands, including dropping off or do they at the dump. Then he'd met up with one of his sons for dinner. when he finally made it back home later in the evening in clay Helen and Boris were gone. All that was left was Helen's note, which he has since thrown away. Huh yeah not also read five market the first is very cooperative with the investigation he's doing all the things that you would expect of a man whose partners missing participating in searches he's paying for missing posters to be pro and he's showing up at awareness raising events. He even makes a televised statement where he tells Helen quote. you not only mended my heart five years ago, but made it bigger, stronger and kinder together, we learned to live with our grief and move forward with our lives, but never forgetting now it feels like my heart does, even exist, but over his head. and wherever you are, I will come in

you and boar s and give you whatever you need. That's a statement about his missing partner. That's got the staircase vibes statement. Yes, because he's only talking about himself, yeah ended six, so floor and end were hurseton doesn't sound like someone panicking know, it sounds like someone saying: isn't this terrible from nea. It is easy for me to say obviously in hindsight, but right, it's a pattern. Its habit for people like that that are like they wouldn't think to these same other. Then I'm here to tell you how horrible this is for me rates are I'm worried. Her and I, and they just want her home. That's no way out that it's not about that. It seems like him, but anne's behaviour is inconsistent at best police are already on alert because of

Bizarre. Ninety nine call not just that. He couldn't answer basic questions about Helen, but please are also confused as to why it would wait for days to report her miss then he begins lashing out investigators as they continued their search of the home. One investigator later says quote everything we did was questioned him. They're watching every single move. He was at shoulder length. He was interested in what we are doing and followed us everywhere and quo, but is questionable. If your doesn't and their when two months have passed with no sign of Helen in renews the season pass to the arsenal football club using the joint banking. how he shares with Helen, and then he takes a trip to majorca, oh dear, which is like I wanna judge, every

well thing, but it's like okay, that was true and he needed to get the fuck away from this grief that he was going through. Okay, you know what I mean like, but I know I think he did it. So I think everything suspicious will here's what I would say ear. It's a valid point. Except he's not integrate stage after you, dont know where she is right so, What are you getting away from your getting away from a huge question mark that hasn't been answered, of where your fiance is the person that disgusting are the most about in the world. You like, I really have to get away. I saw as take what are you talking about? Why don't you want to lake search, every home in your neighborhood, utterly yeah, so oil investigators are pouring through hellenes electronics for any useful information and soon there suspicion round even start coming into focus. They learn than on the day that Helen was last seen alive. Someone logged into her bank account that person had edited

existing monthly payments, the poles money from hellenes personal account into the joint action. She shares with an so it used to be six hundred pounds, and now it's four thousand pounds. Here investigators are eventually able to link this activity to ends computer, not hellenes, so that they are not good red fire. Please also make note of what Helen had been googling ahead of her disappearance, and it includes things like quote: I'm so tired, falling asleep at work and quote falling asleep in the afternoon. Oh so this checks out the information at hellenes mother. I lean had recently told investigators, she'd, said Helen quote confided in me about being worried about her state of mind the week before she disappeared. She called me at lunchtime and said to me: I can't believe I just slept for five hours I had to poach eggs and the next thing I woke up.

end quote, I lean mentions. Another incident were Helen, had gone for a walk with boris at the beach and while there she became so groggy and dazed that when she started to head home, she almost left for us behind my guide, which just now the view of a dog now right, Another coup that investigators find while searching hellenes electronic devices involves for cell phone after hellenes reported missing its assumed that she left with her phone. However, investigators find evidence that, on April sixteenth, the day after reports Helen missing her phone automatically connects to the wifi network at her broadstairs house when police investigate further They learn that even had driven to broadstairs that same day after being pressured by one family to go search. The vague vision for home for her, so their basically like will you dont know for a fact not there. If you haven't gone their language

you got there. So this wifi connection leads police to believe in has had her phone in his possession the entire time and was carrying it with him for whatever he's on that day, rights shook him into the lake or sudden rate, If all of that isn't enough, it's also revealed that on April eleventh, the day element missing in showed up to an appointment that Helena it previously with her lawyer? It was about the pending sale, of one of hellenes properties, which was about to net her hundreds of thousands of dollars and anne told the lawyer that Helen. Quote two unwell to meet and because he had power of attorney sent him to handle the transaction and collect the payment from the buyer. In her place, but that lawyer refuse to work with the end and said: he'd need to hear from Helen directly first and over the next several weeks with Helen still missing, follows up with this lawyer multiple times about this sale, but he continues to get stuck

wild and eventually the lawyer calls the police to tell them about these pushy exchanges with the end yeah. lack of she feels unwell the same day. She goes missing and you're not talking about any of that. They have to find out from the lawyer. Let lawyer. By the way his legs now auto is known, is soon investigators feel like they have enough circumstantial evidence to connect and hellenes disappearance, and the motive seems clear, wanted access to. Control of hellenes money, so in July eleventh merely threem after Helen. His first reported missing in is arrested, always as the police upon his arrest is you're joking and then just for days later. On July, fifteenth the police finally find hellenes body. Her remains are discovered at her voiced in property, she's been stuffed into a sewage holding tank

underneath the homes detached garage and her dog bourses remains. Are there too my young police had miss the holding tank during earlier, searches Not only has he never mentioned it, but he had conveniently parked his car directly. So one word spreads. The hellenes bodies been and her brother John remembers a time when Helen quote mention There was an old well in the garage, and then there some banter almost certainly instigated by Helen that it was a good place to hide a body eerily john claims that even was standing near by one Helen said this, so they discover Helen's body immediately suggest foul play, but there are no signs of assault or struggle. However, investigator do learn that Helen has a large amount of XO pick loan, which is a prescription sleep aid in her system.

and a sample of hellenes hair suggests she's been regularly ingesting the drug for several months, but Helen did I have a prescription for forehead, coincidentally, and does so these immediately go to end with this information- they want to see if he has any reasonable excuse as to. Why has prescription drugs is found in Helen system even says, Helen often took his seat sleeping pills to treat her own insomnia, but this point: police, no from hellenes, friends and family and her Google searches that she'd had the exact opposite problem. She couldn't seem to stay awake. There's a pic loan seals. His fate police are now convinced that in drugged helen with his sleeping pills, before murdering her he's formally charged with murder, fraud, preventing lawful burial and obstructing justice- and he denies

All charges against him, so in trial begins in january of twenty seventeen. It gets pretty weird when he's but on the stand he announced that he lied about the note that Helen left him before she vanished never existed, but he claims that he vented the lie in her best interest, because she'd actually been kidnapped in claims for kidnappers. He basically describes them and then identifies them as simply neck and Joe said that would kill Helen if he went to the police, but he never specifies why, like? What email or anything that would like like ran somebody out. Even that would make this story plausible by selling the men just showed up and took Helen for no good reason and then killed her? In response prosecutors present, two men at trial, name,

nick and Joe who match ends, descriptions both were acquaintances of hands, have absolutely nothing to do with her disappearance in his defence and claims that these are the wrong nick and Joe, but it's an unconvincing story to say the least, so things are looking for an as his trial, wrap up the prosecution presents a command, calling unbelievable theory based on the wealth of evidence and the case they said. and had targeted Helen knowing she was grieving and vulnerable and half the plan to steal her fortune. Wheedling, his way and her life. He convinced her to change will and give him power of attorney than in twenty seen. He began secretly dosing her with sleeping pills, its unclear What the end goal was there if it was to murder Helen or to trigger into thinking that she was seriously ill so that he would have more control acting as power of attorney in any

case on the day. She went missing. Prosecutors believe that even had Helen and then suffocated her to death with the debate that he later brought to the damn right yeah, they believe he, use that to drag her body into the garage and put her in the holding tang and then got rid of it and after seven weak trial in Stuart, is found guilty on all charges here in the last sentence with a minimum thirty four year, prison term, but this story doesn't then there, because after an invention police launch an investigation into the death of his first wife diane rates. Diana had also suddenly died in twenty ten, it was a complete shock. She was only four. seven years old she was a very healthy woman and when he made the initial nine nine call he suggests Diane had experienced a fatal seizure and investigators just took

at his word and her death was never fully investigated, but because Diane wasn't public figure like Helen. We don't know much about her life, but accordingly her family. She was a very special care, person and a very loving wife and mother. After her passing the un's behaviour struck many people a strange. He had her body cremated almost immediately and then splurge on a brand new sports and while you were so grows as with Helen stood to gain financially from diane's death. Shortly after she died, he collected nearly a hundred thousand pounds between her life insurance pay out assets and her savings Fortunately in had consented to having diane's brain donated to medical science, so pathologists were able to test I am brain tissue and their able to determine she was suffocated,

to death, Lou YA, right, erasing any they're down a neurologist dives into diane's medical history and its revealed that she hadn't experienced. Seizure. In nearly twenty years, while given what's about diane's health. At the time of her death. The likelihood that she died following an epileptic seizure is quote dreamily low one in a hundred thousand, so in twenty twenty two he and his found guilty of murdering diane. He sentenced to a whole life order which and he spend the rest of his life in prison with no chance of pearl during the trial, judge tells end quote you successfully passed off a murder as an epileptic, fit playing out an elaborate and indeed sophisticated charade over a period of time, a charade. This succeeded at the time and would have succeeded for all time, but for your subsequent murder of Helen Bailey. So, as

in services. Prison sentence. The world continues to mourn the losses of both diane store and Helen bailey and help continues to comfort the bereaved through her book. One bad things happen in good bikinis and the archives of her planet grief. Blog back in two thousand and eleven Helen ended her very first post on the planet grief by talking about balloons, she'd released in honor of John's birthday, and she says this quote: I have a flash of terror, at the thought of my balloon being sucked into a jet engine the play plummeting over london and my being responsible for hundreds of new inhabitants of planet grief. But then the balloons continue there gentle flight at first familiar and nice able then just dots and then nothing as I the sky with terry eyes. I think to myself. I know they're out there only moments I was holding them. I can feel their form and energy. I could see them in their work. bright and shiny and fun

and even when I let them go for a while, I could watch them but now however hard. I look, however, carefully. I scan every inch of the sky line. I can't see them, they may have gone from my site and my touch. They may seem be punctured an interchange of shape and up hanging. a tree or be swept up and bend. But I know in some form there still out there and are not just talking about balloons, but you knew that didn't you and that is the story of the object, murders of Helen Bailey and Diana Stewart, I never heard that before, Somehow right, it's kinda just happened. It just happened. It was like a quarantine I remember people's hockey about it on twitter. You know in quarantine, basically when it was still kind of a man that was playing out. I somehow, MR completely about so sad and tragedy,

yeah, but I'm sure glad he didn't get away with it yeah, and it reminds me there's. I think you may have covered this one, but it's a cold case. There's a guy who says his wife drowned in the bathtub in their little kids and then the when the forensic examiner there, like now dead before she went into this water, and then find out that he had been married before and that wife had died that those Those stories were you're sitting there going. This is bad enough here. Talking about is horrifying. It's it's already one horrifying story and you're telling me that motherfuckers been doing this all along these greedy pieces of shared who just like take and take notice,

I wonder how many are out there. You know crazy, well, good job karen. Thank you, hey, I might corey. The host of wonder is podcast against the as each week we share thrilling. True stories of survival and put you in the shoes of the heroes who live to tell the tale in our next season. We take you to a remote corner of alaska that is home to one of the densest brown bear populations in the world. but in recent years the changing climate has caused a shortage of the barest natural food sources. More we're bears, are venturing into the town of haines alaska in search of food, putting residence on edge. Then everyone's worse fears are realised. Three experienced back country scares, unknowingly ski over it

then, and awaken the mother bare and her cub. She attacks and one of the men is left fighting for his life, while his friends desperately wait for help to arrive, follow against the odds wherever you get your PA.

Gas. You can listen ad free on the amazon, music or one re app, hey there. It's karen and georgia picture this. It's a cold night in two thousand and ten, a boy is stopped by the police, while walking home from a party in the bronx he's only sixteen he's been stopped by the police before, but this time is different in a special four part series: the generation why podcast unravels the story of khalif browder, a young boy who was falsely accused of stealing a backpack and held without bail at rikers island for three years. He endured regular abuse by prison staff and inmates and was held in solitary confinement for more than seven hundred consecutive days, and he was only sixteen years old. We say innocent until proven guilty, but where do we draw the line between due process and cruelty? To hear this four part series on khalif story check out generation,

Wherever you get your podcast, you can listen ad free on the amazon, music or one area are so we're gonna, take a big old left hand. Turn wonderful gonna go a little bit away from murder. Exactly in the sunlight. Weird you in unexplained staff. Wonderful, add that this is our football. Pad costume can do what we want, We can agree on anything any team. We want trade, that's right. So today I m going to Are you the unbelievable story of james lining or the toddler who believed to be the reincarnation of a world war, two fighter pilot oh, my god, you ready, even though I am beyond ready for this programme. The sources used in today's episodes are several scholarly articles by Jim be Tucker several responses to those articles by Michael ceta. An epoch

the netflix, serious surviving death and abc primetime special hussar by Chris Cuomo and the book soul, survivor, the reincarnation of a world war, two fighter pilot by bruce andrea, letting her with congress, then you can find the rest and our show nuts. So I met its tell you about the seller. You ready yes, J, this is borne on April tenth. Ninety ninety eight in san francisco, California whew, but you know that you know well, but his family moves around a lot when he's young, they danced to Dallas texas and they ultimately end up in yet louisiana James is to me lee and normal kid. During the first years of his life, he's fine and smiley he's hitting all the expected milestones for his age. He's not a reincarnate. Fighter pilot. Yet not yet Now he's just in the in their ninetieth percentage highlights right. Did your sister ever talk about her boys being and the like

the other ninety percent. You never got like that. She wasn't she's, not that kind of person. She's. yeah she's laid back but she'll, be she'll. Tell me when I do gross stuff than I and that's fun, yeah like when she does that, and you know yeah er rip at a loose tooth out of their hat or something it's more relatable yeah, exactly his mother, andrea, is a former ballerina with a warm personality has always wanted to be a mom. James is her first and only child. His father bruce is a traditional type of guy. He takes his job and father had very seriously, and he has four other kids who live out of state from my first marriage. So he basically, you know, considers himself, and sperience father, so when James begins having nightmares when he's around two years old, just a few weeks after the family moves into this big old house in lafayette, bruce brushes it off he's been apparent for a long time, and so he knows it's kind of a normal thing for toddlers to go through.

But andrea is tortured by her young childs distress. These here's are really enhance. James was around while lying on his back in his crib punching and kicking the air above him. Andrea later says quote. I thought this looks like the exorcist. I have expected his head to spin around like that little or on the movie. Ah, there's gotta be so hard to see or to ya like tat, horrible yeah and while he thrashes, he screams andrea Andrews report. Losing sleep for months over these loud and frightening episodes. James allegedly has he's nightmare several times a week. Doktor is gone, Friends and friends of Andrea tell her. This is totally normal. He'll grow out of it, but then James starts screaming discernible words during his night terrors. Have you ever been with someone or seen someone have nightmares before? No, I have a it's the fucking, I my dad has them, and it is. It is so

frightening. Like say passages tariff and a two year old have them that sounded like awful. So he starts yelling airplane crash plain on fire little man, can't get out. Oh no! Imagine hearing that from your child's crib You believe, how do they? We know anything? What airplane rights so around at the time the nightmare start James develops and obsessive interest in aeroplanes in the same way that some kids become obsessed with thick princesses or firemen whatever for james, this airplane and he and his father visit the Cavanaugh flight museum outside of dallas multiple times in the spring of two thousand, which is around the time. The nightmare start, and James literally has to be dragged away because he's so obsessed with the planes and bruce noticed the james is particularly interested in the world were too plain exhibit so dear. These museum visits James is allowed to pick out some toys from the gift shop. He get several toy propeller planes and the age ass, tat,

of the blue angels, wishes the navy's flight exhibition team, I'm sorry how old is babies to re revealing net dinosaurs, no lou angels. The blue! and he watches the video several times a day. Amazing. He also plays very aggressively with his toy planes. Crashing them into a wooden coffee table so often that its covered with deep, scratches and while playing he often says the words quote, airplane crash on fire. And then birth travels a lot for work and whenever he leaves to catch a flight, James tells his father quote: daddy's airplane crash big fire. So then, who now at super chow yeah? It's just take a back, no, no james to say, bye. Bye, now, don't scare dead, dead, beat the combination of

this aggressive play. The warnings to his dad and violent nightmares are freaking, andrea and bruce out. They try dismissing ere. They tried telling him to stop talking this way even hide the blue angels gauges and try to minimize its obsession with planes and plane crashes, but the nightmares persists. Almost every night, James is still screaming things. Like quote airplane crash plain on fire little man can't get out on August eleven two thousand andrea's reading aloud to James, as he starts talking to her about the quote little man that he dreams about. Begins to mine more slowly the kicks in punches in thrashing he does. When he's asleep saying little man's going like this. I can't get out andrea, later describes her hair standing on and as she hears her sons descriptions ass calmly ass. She can. She asked

hu? The little man is James, responds quickly by saying quote me said, then she grabs breeze. She says to James, tell him what you, what you told me James, tells his parents can buy the plane crash and little man and bruce with a growing sense of unease asks him what happened at his plane. James responds that a quote: crashed on fire and bruised asked why the plane crashed and james responds with quote it got shot when bruce asked who shot your plane. James screws up his face in this indignant way, as if the answer is obvious, He tells the parents the japanese shot down his plane. Wouldn't you be leg hold on a second here. Take this gilbert mom separated kids marry without back scream towel like what

oh yeah yeah a little baby, a baby that barely can talk is telling you about world war to their suppress alike. Almah like almah your thing. What's, young man, yeah sober Andrea, are totally baffled. Their son is barely two years old, but as the night sky line, they start to ask more. Questions is becoming clear. That would James is experiencing are some sort of memories and he starts providing some more baffling details to exactly. He says the japanese shot down his plane. He tells his parents, he flew a corsair which is a fighter plane that was developed during world war. Two like I can't even pronounce it, and if I could say I would not have thought about it. Of course, We were like what's this now also I mean this must have been so eerie because you they knew already it's not like he's been watching. They can't lie to themselves about it. You have to go with it because it's not like you're like

You arching history, general rates and then Bruce have for their kids. So he's like this. None of them were like this like, yet I had nightmares yeah this. They got obsessed with things, but this is a normal yeah not consistently rising yeah. So then he tells his parents had he flew his plane off a boat. They some it the boat had a name and james tells them. This boat is called the net toma correctly. They ve never even heard that word before so islamic. They could have set it to him some. on accidents, but bruce and andrea are entreat enough by how specific it is. Sub areas gets to work, really days of the internet, so the search is slow and painstaking. Eventually bruce discovers that there was a small aircraft carrier station in the pacific during world war. Two called the: u s ass in a coma. Yes, he is amazed, but also little terrified. Yes, he's slight,

they shedding so sucker. You re all right as like me, the nineties website comes out units got the damn thing thing in this corner and that a flat really cool flash flying sisters come through which Jesus when said andrea asked her son. What is the name of the little man in his dreams? He only responds with quote me, or he says James. Then they ask him if he were met, the name of any friends he had James tells them clearly and immediately quote a guy named Jack Larsen. He gives them a name jack Larsen, so the lawyers are a pretty traditional christian family. So reincarnation is not really part of their belief system. The specificity

of the name. Jack Larsen starts support, andrea in the direction that these are past life memories, while bruce doubles down on his research. Perhaps so he can prove it himself. It's all made up either way the jackal arson reveal seems to take what's going on with James. The next level, for Parents and james a strange recollections begin to escalate. I mean, I wonder, They were still holding out his leg, tiny. son of a hope that he's just incredibly guess yeah he's just like- has agreed Imagination is he's just able to pull a really believable forties air force. Guy's name out of his back pocket and when Just two and a half so he's a little old little wiser, a precise, a book on the worldwide. the battle of yours, Jima James, this sitting with his father as a flip through it when James stops his father on a page with an

ariel map of the japanese islands, where this military operation took place and points to a particular spot on the map. He says quote: that's where my plane was shot down. My airplane got shot down their daddy. This insight, combined with the jack larson detail, is enough for bruce he actually reaches out to a veteran. Who had served in worth more to on the? U S, ass, an item on ebay and asked about its history. He confirms the bow was in fact involved in them the orgy emma the man also says here. There's a pilot named jack Larsen, but he doesn't know what happened to him. So he confirms this person is named. James does James of the change of a religious. My two year old son. I mean Jesus. What if they reveal Is that james rolls his sleeve up and he has like a hawaiian lady taxes on earth mark there, and it was like, oh why? Oh, my god at this point, the lender is reach out tool of a named carol. Bowman she's, a counselor

specializes in reincarnation, especially the past lives of children, which is so interesting, yeah she's written a book which andrea reads, which is why they reach out to her carol. Encouraging the latter is to treat these experiences life. They are indeed past life memories and not just figments of jane. His imagination. I think you know don't call your kid. A liar, basically is what she saying: traumatize him yeah it's real to him, no matter what his parents follow. Carols instructions acknowledging the hand that the events he was describing had indeed happen to him before, while emphasising that they were in the past, and now he is safe and sure enough. The intensity of james is nightmares decrease once they acknowledge what's going on and tell him, he says that the memories

stop, so is now two thousand, and one and James is three ripe. Old age of three issues were counting his alleged past life in the daytime, drawing tons of pictures of world war, two style planes in epic battle scenes the enemy, ain't he draws have the distinct, japanese red, rising sun flag, drawn on their wings. I've seen odes, I seen the picture. It's true. Have you ever seen My dad has Nora's art she was like a kindergarten still taped to his refrigerator are now wheeler. She was very talented, always has she wasn't the ninety percent dial? She was absolutely. Now it is present I'll. Never forget you. He is way on the size of that house. You know the windows are big and small time. Like it she's too

years older than this kid yeah and can barely put a normal house together. This guy is drawing fighter plane rage right, I mean it's, it's a kids drawing, but there are the details of those little things he's talking about. You know it's a kids. Drawing of a thing! Kids, don't draw right right! It's like you stand. My sister has so much art from kids being out where a grammar school teacher words like they always have like hands with. eight fingers honour labour winner. And if it at that its due to bad, are it s? Just just waiting around. We love you stop it stop! Listening to this. Why are you listening back of your ear. Oh and then he starts signing the pictures James and then the number three at the end of it so Jane's three and when he's asked why he says quote it's because I'm the third james and either when he turns four years old. He still signs is picture is James. Three not like it was like the age zone. James three is his name he's also revealing

simply in depth, knowledge of airplanes. He can correctly identify a drop tank and when his mother called it something else when he gets some gee. I Joe dolls for christmas Here he names them. Billy Leon and Walter, like those are weird names for kids to your name: their toys, rome, Walter hasn't been like a current name for fifty years, not typical names for for that. Now, when Britain andrea ask him why he's named his? Does this? He responds club, because that's who met me when I got to Heaven I'd be likes. Send this kid back at this point, I would be I kick them out, I feel like. Can we just take a break for a second just go to the park that talking? Mommy has a headache. In two thousand and two bruce actually goes sure net.

Homer bay reviewing in to interview some veterans, because he just once more frightened information. Yet first has become obsessed with finding out the identity of this jack Larsen person, and so Pew does learn at this reunion that jack Larsson was in fact a pilot in world war to station on. The net alma bay and not only that, but he survived the war and is still alive and living in arkansas Oh shit he's not the reunion, but people remember him and show bruce documentation to confirm that jacket real and alive. So that was, would you just get direct? and your kind drive to jack. I was like that momentum. We need this to come together. So it's around this the line. Anger is learn that only one pilot from the ship was killed during the battle of Eu Jima, his name.

Is james, am houston. Junior Andrea has an intuitive sense that this is the person who has been reincarnated through her son first, That means more convincing. He starts posting obsessively on online forums for mourn. For me, about this pilot and how he died so turns out. The James Houston Here was a twenty one year old from pennsylvania, who didn't exactly die at euro gmo but instead was killed during a strike against transport vessels in a harbour on the near by island of chee chee jima

and this falls under the umbrella of the EU s jima military operation, even other specific island were houston, was shot down, is about a hundred and fifty miles to the north. South african checks out rape and bruce discovers that Houston's plain was shot down by the japanese in exactly the manner described by his son and according to old flight path records. It turns out that jack Larsson was flying in the plane right beside houston's when he died, and he also learns that three squadron maids of houston's who had been killed before him. were named billy peeler walter devlin and Leon Connor, woe billy Walter Emily on. Ok, cause here's the thing like we believe in psych exit don't believe inside. You believe in that kind of that kind of kenya,

Some people may or may not have there's lots of ways to discuss it here. This is a baby. This is a baby saying, airforce, stuff yeah and named checking real people, real veterans who gave their lives for this country. it's beyond its beyond its unexplainable. It's totally funding unexplainable, yeah yeah, so now person, andrea alike yeah. We believe that they publicly claim that their son is the reincarnation of james, am houston, junior and remember. He wrote that he was number three so that he was a junior and james number. Three! Ok, that's why he's was referencing. The number which is fuckin crazy- and this is when things blow up for james and his parents, They connect with Houston's surviving sister Anne who was in her bees and the shocked by how much this through europe boy knows about her brother. She is on record as whole.

Lee believing that little James is a reincarnation of her little brother in part, because he knows specifics about her family and early childhood that she says no one Now such isn't movies buying it. For sure I mean that's a very we legitimate, like confirmation totally that line, there is due in primetime special hosted by chris Cuomo. It's a huge head. The segment errs on April fifteen, two thousand and four and that lining girls are flooded with global media attention. So they decide to write a book about their experiences published in two thousand and nine. There book is called soul survivor s. Oh, you out survivors, not print nice there reincarnation of our world were to fight or pilot and chronicles James and their families journey. The book does well and even some time on the new york times best seller list, just like that celery juice choosing, but just like salary juice. which was also reincarnation of men.

Diet, books from the seventies, that's rare, but of course this then opens up the lining their story to sceptics and prompts a fierce, ongoing academic debate. particular researchers, that I met a focus on our jim Tucker of the university of virginia and Michael Setteth, who is currently teaching at san francisco state university, so smart, smart people, both of these men are highly educated and specialised in the study of consciousness after death. The specifics of both of their arguments are highly technical and not easy to follow up. The main point is Jim Tucker. if such aims? Testimony is reliable evidence of reinsurance

in the western world, Michael Setteth does not, and for almost every publication Tucker has written in support of james sudden has written a scathing responds to disprove the quote facts with his own research, so these sera, like butting, heads the main point of contention our could this be fried? Could this be fantasy or could james have acquire this information through normal means? yeah, it's a he learned a pre school. You know what they're out sacking about those tiny stories that andrea was reading him that you, as you may know that time story you know yeah, but everyone wants I Why wont to know actually what the real arguments, because it seems hard to imagine for sure tucker and never aired abc news interview. The james had done recorded in two thousand to come. at the lenin, girls are not frauds to him when they recorded that segment little baby name's had not yet identified James Houston as the person he was,

reincarnation of in tuckers minded family could have fabricated. This worry in a way that was more sensational and lucrative from the start like they would have used. The name immediately like he said: oh he told us, he was this and it's like notice. The memory slowly started coming not just like boom boom yep this developments over time proves attacker that this family is not making up their sons, experiences for attention or financial gain. So that's an interesting way to look at a rate young young, and I'm putting out the information or just like tat, Story incompletely is a more believable way right to hear it, as opposed to like here's, my two and a half year olds, power presentation on his past life rates right yeah Tucker also dismisses that this could just be James. Is imagination,

He says that, even though it is normal for toddlers to have nightmares, James's nightmares were characteristics of having experienced a major trauma, and similarly, his repetitive and violent play with toy airplanes is an example of what he calls post traumatic. Plague and then, given that James linings has no history of trauma and his lies in Tucker's minding intensity. Above, james, is play and nightmares points to evidence of trauma and past life. Do you believe in past life? Well, but in this kid and then there's that kid that when he was little he thought he was an agent from the forties. Have you see now it's incredible. It's it's a kind of thing where it's just like this, where you a little kid giving these details you're just like. How is this possible- and I feel like these are stories that her you know we ve got a lot of these like an home towns where people are like, then my daughters. totally. Grandma says

Don't do that. I don't know that there are things that we absolutely you know I like: when we're little are open to and can have come into our. We can't later I d, I believe and things like that, because we don't our brains are mysteries. We don't know for sure so tucker this other dude outright dismisses the possibility that James could have learned about James Houston. more than a Toma bay through normal means, so the other researcher, Michael ceta. He says that blind girl story is filled with quote falsehoods, factual distortion and fallacious reasoning, so he doesn't believe in it at all, the two and a half year old is using fallacious reasoning. Yeah he's yelling at the sierra sure in his many paper is set. Sudduth explains that he believes the leininger is suppressed. Certain facts that would make this story less interesting work

the boy, he says they deny the reality of a james could have acquired some of this knowledge through normal means such as overhearing adults talking or the many flight museums he went to. So that's not out of the room, a possibility. He went to dot dot dot as a two and a half year off as a two and a half year after he had the dream, the threat again a startling. He suggests that, because adults wanted James, a story to be proof of reincarnation, they somehow created the circumstances in which james a story with look. Like proof of reincarnation, sure understandable whom so, even though the ongoing debate over james his past life, memories continues. James and his family remained firm believers in his story in the summer of two thousand six, when James eight years he and his family travelled to japan to make a pilgrimage to cheat Jima. They taken out a small boat to the spot, approximately

Houston's plain- was shot down and those video footage of the simple and heartfelt memorial service my fingers hold any james, holds the bouquet of flowers and dropped them over the side of the boat and begins to sob as they sink below the water. After the ceremony, James's nightmares reportedly become less frequent and less intense, and he wrote it's a sense of lasting peace. After this, as a teenager and young, adult james can only remember traumatic images of the plane crash, he loses connection with most of the other details, but he still believes that he once carried the personality of James Houston inside him and a two thousand and nine fox news follow up James says of his story quote. I hope that it helps people understand the meaning of how precious life is, how fast it can just blow away, I also hope that it opens people's eyes up to reincarnation. It is a possibility and is not a lie and, as an adult he's been featured on an episode of the netflix occupant, very serious, surviving, death and report,

really is just focused on living, a normal life and he still lives in louisiana. So this case and others like a like the ones you ve done on the many sides, opened the door to all sorts of questions like. Is there such a thing as consciousness after death? but also how susceptible are very young children to the powers of imagination and suggestion, and we know there is a precedent of adults getting caught up in the stories. Children like the seed having the annex, for example, yeah, but it's safe to say that and though many smart people have looked into the story of james lining their and his connection to pilot James m Houston, it produces more questions than answers. Maybe they're just some circumstances that she cannot be explained yeah, and that is the story of the quote. Reincarnated pilot james lining her. I loved that Here's the thing you can go through life and be like here's. What I know it's a fatty blah blah you'll always end up

in proven wrong in some way, because there's a lot going on lake thing always loved, bring up, like randomly and my dad did it the other day. You are like a weight. I think I get this from you when, like you know, watching some nature. So he's like you, don't we don't know? What's in the ocean like it's ninety percent of its, explore and run like. I know I'm watching to think about fun guy right now, and it's just like the amount of stuff that we don't understand was happening on this planet is so vast, it's crazier and like was it that one where it's like all the different things like the benefits that fungi have fantastic fungi Yeah, yes, Zagreb's such a good job, but I mean I, I just think there's a little bit of humility. If you are the kind of person approaches like new information with humility and then an reality and kind of interest yeah, but I also absolutely admit that as a person who

in the past watched ancient aliens and Ben, like all it's all possible, and then people are just like excuse me as an archaeologist. This is offensive because there is real people who built the yeah we humans do this, and then human cells their stories to kind of like discredit, yeah, the accomplishments of certain people and it's bullshit. But to me this lies right in this very innocent area of like, what's a benefit ray, what did it like? Yes, wrote a book but like how could they filled the whole book if they were? If all of this was just fabricated totally and the like those in the beginning, they didn't believe it. They took a long time till I confirm certain things. It was night. They are just like look over here, everyone. You know. they didn't railway, the parents in blue in the beginning, right, it's just I don't know and So you know these days. Who knows what people are doing and why yeah? I think

We see that a where you're like? Oh, oh, ok, I get it you know, but as the are you know like scam, podcast, that I love in a door and listen to it, just like you what our people doing. So, it's like absolutely within the realm of possibility, but wouldn't you wait till your son was seven or eight so that at least it would make the sunrise prayer. Somebody was talking about world war, two again when a half year old issued sleigh now it doesn't make any sense. They are absolutely still in diapers. Cannot control themselves now in many ways to they even walk yet I don't know. I think so in there they're not great at it. They're not. They can't even walk. Thank god like they're like that at walking. I dunno, that's, I think, is hilarious and compelling to even Imagine and there's just been so many of my grandma says high the two year old in the back seat. Rear dislike now yet send us. Your story is by the way that might ever rivera gmail send us your reincarnation stories, for them

some towns, we got to hear it. Please your toddler, that's open to the you know Throw plain type of shit can explain, love it. Here's the thing I think of all the football podcast out there, this has been the most comprehensive re colored every black bull football tat aunt salute we never in the history of football pied casting has any football pike has passed this hard about football. I think we really done it. We ve honour to weave honoured the sport and move the ball down the field. What you gotta do is moved the ball down the feel that say that we know that about it. If there's anything, we know about football, also, the one thing we really know about football, the probably the most important role of the game, stay sexy and I'll get murdered, goodbye a you want cookie.

This has been an exactly right. Production are for There is a hundred captain, our senior produce. There's Hannah kyle Creighton. This episode was engineered and mixed by stephen re morris. Our researchers are marin, motivation and Sarah Blair Jenkins email, your home towns and fucking. Her aids to my favorite martyr achieve male dotcom, followed a show and instagram and facebook at my favorite murder and twitter at my fave murder goodbye. The. Listen, follow, leave us a review on amazon, music, apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts have, prime. Did you know that you can listen to my favorite murder early, an ad free on amazon, music, download, the amazon music apt? Today you can support my cave or by filling out a survey at wondering, dot com, slash survey