What I'm hopeful for you is there some way that weaken weakened, find some common agreement too. I have to look at this a little bit more fully. Mr secretary, I I can tell he said there was only two dead people what, though I can promise you. There are more than that. That is mark meadows, donald trump, former chief of staff, making a brief a brief appearance on the infamous find the votes call with georgia secretary of state on January. Second, when he twenty one that exchange was part of his legal teams. Defence yesterday, as meadow spent five hours on the witness, stand it sport, legal analysis on that hearing and Trial date set now for the former president in the federal allow some interference case, which could come the day before super tuesday, plus president Biden is clearing the way for a major federal response.

Florida ahead of hurricane dahlias expected landfall, but the latest forecasts that storm, which is projected to be a big one tomorrow, But in the morning Joe, it's tuesday august, twenty ninth willie geiss with us. We ve got the host away to early Whitehouse bureau, chief at political and author of the bay Why jonathan le maire and busy justice and intelligence, corresponding candle lenient in former lit hatred, MSNBC legal analysts, LISA ruben, wanting to all its dive right in, as we begin with a start date now, sat for donald trump federal election interference, trial district court judge, tanya, checking border jurists. action to begin on more march forth of next year that shit, the day before super tuesday prosecutors had asked for the trial to begin in early january of next year, while trumps lawyers proposed to begin in April of twenty twenty six yesterday judge chuck said neither of those days were acceptable, but quote. This case is now

going to trial in twenty twenty six. That decision was met with back inside the courtroom from trump attorney John lore out, who is caution twice by the judge to turn down the temperature when he was speaking laurel claims the violation of the un to do justice that the former president be tried so soon arguing, he would not have enough time to prepare his clients offence. Judge chicken dismissed those concerns, noting that trump has been aware since last year that he was the focus of jack Smith's investigation and could have been preparing his defence during that time. As for when the date falls on the political calendar, the judge said quote: setting a trial it does not depend and should not depend on the defendants, personal and professional obligations. Mr trump, like any defendant, we'll have to make the trial they work regardless of his schedule and quote just chuck. It did note there is a strong.

Interest in the case being resolved sooner rather than later, and that the quicker it goes to trial. The more it reduces quote a defendant's opportunity. to commit crimes. While I'm pretrial release trap was not present yesterday's hearing, but he was quick to respond as you can imagine and social media one post, he wrote quote trumpet. Judge blasting her for scheduling the trial one day before super tuesday. He also claim he would appeal, judge judkins decision something he does not have the power to do so least I'll start with you on the date of march fourth, ambitious paired certainly to what the trump team wanted, which was a kind of an outrageous demand into twenty twenty six. A little bit later than were jack smith but not a whole lot later now, not a whole lot later. Reasonable willie, and I think one of the reasons is reasonable is for the ways in which judge chicken discussing which all loro yesterday, the fact that these twelve point- eight million pages of

covering about which he made a whole lot. Word actually twelve point, eight million pages of discovery, and she noted for him how much of that is duplicative? How much of that is already in the public domain and how much of it they ve already had in their possession and had an opportunity to review for months and lords, wouldn't conceive. Any of that- and I think they really lost her by refusing to engage with her on terms that she found reasonable. So can you were at the hearing yesterday? What was the tenor? Is it just reading through it? It certainly like there was a lot of back and forth between judge check in admonishing loro at several moments in the hearing. What was that again there. So I Full disclosure was actually standing outside doing live shot for MSNBC, but I was reading word for word, as our colleagues inside word typing what she was saying into the Google I was looking at, and I was really wishing that we can all watch it on television because it was

remarkable hearing where the sort of reality distortion field of the trump defence, in this case no kind of game. crashing on the shoulders of this hard nosed judge you just wasn't taking any nonsense. I mean she just does she just ain't. You made a number of statements that would have been beneficial for for the public at large watch first say, for example, that mr too, there's going to be treated with no more or no less deference than any other criminal defended. That here like any other busy. Prominent criminal defended, he's going to have to adjust, his schedule, whenever it is running for president, are running along preparation to that necessities of the criminal trial and cheese in charge of that an she at least said I mean it, seemed like a huge calculation by moreover, the trump defence, because she begged them banning them come up with a more reasonable alternative than April twenty twenty which he immediately said at the start of the hearing was a non starter. Wasn't gonna happen. She rejected

their notion that you know this massive amount of discovery made it impossible for them to get ready for trial and even a year, and so she give her an alternative, and so she went with a date that was really two months removed from the agenda today that the special councils office have pose, and there is also some really interesting. I just want to read this one thing from the special care molly gaston that journey just a really interesting kind of appeal to how important it is to get this the trial. She said that the defence is accused of historic crimes as small aghast and from the special council office and theirs incredibly strong public interests in a juries prompt consideration of those claims in open court and johnny chuck it agreed. You said that the right to us trial. Wasn't just the defendants right. It was the public's right in We agreed that the public gallery here this case before the november,

in twenty four election and look at nobody thinks it's march. Fourth date is from. There are a lot of reasons to think it will slip. Laura made clear he's going to file a motion to argue that donald trump is immune because, whose president from these criminal charges and that's something that could go all the way to the supreme court this trial is pending, so this may slip but the bottom line here, as a judge started, can clearly wants to get this trial moving. Some time next year or the election and that's hugely significant, so LISA can lead me to my next question to you was in your experience as a litigator. Is this date negotiable? Is it move a ball? Is this just a marker that the judges putting down that may move? I think it's somewhere between. I think china checking we does mean that marched forth as a date that she is aiming for, It's not negotiable in the sense that they cannot go back and talk about it next week, but through motion practice or appeals. Could we be looking the date further down the road? Absolutely, but is it her intent to try this?

before the election, and will she do that? I believe she well so John obviously trump and his team have wanted. all these investigation together, ass quote election interference, in other words, suggesting that this justice department trying to prevent him from becoming, whereas united states. Again, Does this add a little fuel to his case, if unfairly, that the day before super tuesday a day when he likely would be criss crossing the country in going to key states and campaigning that he's only sitting in a court room. Does the eve of soup tuesday help him make that cakes, daring. That's the point of argument. There are making trump took the transposal yesterday to say exactly that at the time you hear it can't be a coincidence that that basically there pick the day before she producer, hurt, my chances for becoming their public and nominee and therefore becoming president again we have. Certainly, we have no reason to believe at all that that is factored into the judge's decision, but that is what trump is saying and how he's trying to whip up support from his supporters

that has been the organ from day. One is to be saying that the the justice department the belongs to my top rival. President Biden is trying to prosecute me, so I can't unseat president by that's the argument and she's gonna keep you gonna keep making it, but it does underscores you look at the counter they're just a challenge. That lies in front of him, that that he'd they're all these days. We know that, like Alan braggin, yorkists signalled he will step aside, you know, for you play deaf, shall to the manhattan through the federal case that should go first, but Is you see here the I will caucus in january? We have that. Did we have dates? Of course there are votes in february and march, and now he's gonna be shuttling from courtroom to court room of while also try mix and political rights initially obstacles that no presidential campaign, has ever faced before and george we'll be sprinkled in there as well once they decide on sunday. Meanwhile, from a white house, chief of staff mark meadows took the witness stand for food. hours yesterday in the first hearing for his motion to move that

in county election case to federal court, the bulk of the shooting surrounded what official role as chief of staff entail those frame. His actions in the aftermath of the election is part of his job. As the former presidents top is legal team argued any action he took simply was connected to that all including the infamous, and the votes call we played for just a moment ago when he was on with georgia secretary of state brad reference burger, I only need eleven thousand dollars. I need eleven thousand words gimme a break. I want to do. Is this? Guy is one side. Eleven thousand seven hundred and eighty loads, which is one more that we have, because we want to say there's nothing wrong with saying that. You know that you recalculated

there. It is on tape, fallen, county district attorney, fanny. Well, us in her office, say meadows action we're a violation of the hatch act which prohibits government officials from using official roles to influence and election NBC news reports. A lawyer for the d, a press meadows about whether solely advance in the interests of the campaign would be outside the scope. But his responsibilities. I would not agree with that. meadow said: rapids were So testified for about an hour after being subpoenaed by the prosecution. There's not bit a ruling as yet the judge said meadows would need to be arranged in the case of scheduled if there has not been a decision by then at arraignment for meadows, donald trump and seventeen others has been scheduled for next Wednesday week from tomorrow, September. Six, who said to me at nine thirty a m and run it fifteen minutes intervals. There's no yet

whether those arraignments will be in person or virtual, so some kind of speed dating they're just getting them through fifteen minutes. At a time, LISA Rubin to get them a rain down go back to mark meadows disease the case that this should be moved to a federal court. He hasn't more than a frivolous case, but I think ultimately an unsuccessful one right. She was ass, I think most telling moment yesterday. Is there anything that the president could have asked you to do that? What have been beyond discover your duties as white house chief of staff, and the only thing he come up with was trump asked. came to speak at a rally is simply not the case as a matter of federal law that the chief of staff speaking The campaign rally is the only thing that he could do that would go beyond his farewell duties. If it were, the hatch act would be a nobody. The issue here- is not whether he should be prosecuted for violating the hatch act. Issue is whether mark meadows was in fact acting within the scope of his federal duties, and I think, ultimately, as bread wrath in sport

and even an attorney associated with the trunk campaign. Kurt halbert testify. Yesterday everybody understood the work. he was joined care was electoral and political in nature, not to fulfil a federal function of insurance. Free and fair elections, as meadows tried to insinuate yesterday, and certainly members of the white house violated the hatchet like it was their parlor job description more days that not from various. Why does poems can talk to us? there were just how surprisingly, was that meadows took the stand a that. That was something that really took a lot of people off guard shy. Because he, as he said himself during testimony. I'm enough trouble as it is tibet is faulty. Memory, His lawyers must have felt like what gives a pretty see, relax demeanor are we ve all seen on television and his lawyers must have felt like he would be a good where necessary, and that he was

it's sort of a converse and enough with the facts not to trip himself up, but this whole question of whether he was acting politically. It's not just significant for the purposes of whether this case gets removed, federal court, which, by the way derail the case it would still be. The same art is the same prosecutors. The only thing that would changes may be that the jury pool, but this This also goes to a question of whether donald trump can search that he was asked. as president and is therefore immune from the Charges the because everybody knows in Washington that the chief of staff, among all jobs in the white house, is the one that Ass is the line between politics and policy You know one day that you ve staff is getting at the high level intelligence briefing the next day his calling political operatives in minnesota, to talk about a local issue, but it becomes That call was so blatantly political, don't trump wasn't asking about. You know

actual fraud and raising his concerns about the integrity of the election. He was acts casting about the votes that he needed to win the election that puts this whole the call in the other activities and meadows where's engaging in squarely in the political realm any poor. Any reasonable person can see that in it, so it not only undercuts meadows claim to remove the trial to federal court. Its. going to be an issue and donald trump comes to federal court and says I'm immune from these, just under the presidential newly doctrine, because I was acting as president. I was concerned that there is fraud in the election, so deeply significant hearing yesterday. Lisa, can I ask you a question? I'm sure a lot of people are wondering which is if you're participating in the conspiracy, an alleged conspiracy to overturn an election Why does it matter in what role you're acting? In other words, whether you are acting as chief of staff or anything, pain role, you're still, britain, appearing in an alleged conspiracy. What's the distinction there, but I think of the import of the question.

Has to do with meadows. This effort to remove which a federal court. It's a threshold question if you're, trying to as a state criminal defended, move a case to federal court on the good that you're a federal officer, which is what the statute requires? You first have to show that you are fulfilling a federal function right and so not so much is relevant to the conspiracy. Its is relevant? Or can you prove it too? your case to federal court. But of course the reason metals wants to be in federal court in the first place is so he can it. The argument that cat was just referred to, which is this presidential immunity question. He is arguing that, because he was a subtle officer acting at the direction of the president or in cahoots with the president, that it would, improper and unconstitutional. Funny willis prosecute him in state court that the federal constitution has to amnesty and therefore he belongs in a federal court. But that's really just a vehicle to get rid of the case entirely. Let's go

stated, george, as we bring in political report for the atlantic journal constitution gregg boosting gregg morning kind of an extraordinary day down there county yesterday with mark meadows, really the time we ve had a witness effectively sit in testifying. That would give here. To the evidence and really to see where he is and what kind of arguments he's gonna make in this case, I wouldn't you away from that long day, yeah I was the first big has too funny. Well is this case here in georgia and also understood or the surprised, this price testimony from art meadows score just how badly he wanted to win this motion. You know illegal. Experts did not expect martineau stick stand, but it is just as LISA mentioned, I mean first of all, he can advance that argument that he was immune from from from prosecution because he was acting under the color of as a federal official. But beyond that, Indeed, the jury pull. It means that the jury pool is not just draw from foreign commie, which Joe

by one the seventy two percent of the vote, but also from a from a broader pool of of ten counties and natural and an area and spears and home? It means that likely we will not be able to see that the proceedings on tv, like we would inform, can a court We learn from brad wrath and spur yesterday. He sat for about an hour. The georgia secretary of state he's been strong since day, one on all of this, and we heard him on January. Second, twenty twenty one and that call saying that the illegal that. The election was fair, that we counted, we recanted and we count it again and Biden won this state. What did we learn from his testimony yesterday? If anything, their state of said this overnight we wrote a book about it right. He actually wrote a book, the annotated that entire phone call em, so The public didn't, minister, learn anything new, but now it's admitted in a court of law and can be used. His testimony can be used in every single hearing going forward every proceeding every motion, every document that is filed in this case him saying that he he followed the law

He was not going to be coerced, are intimidated or bullied by when the president is and is not an issue aids to find enough votes to reverse the election. Results is a powerful witness in all this agreed with all this in mind, everything we ve seen in the state of georgia, particular just in the last week you jjc have some new polling out this morning, showing how it may or may not be impacting Donald trump check this out, donald trump among republican voters. in the primary at fifty seven percent, its challenge around the Santer. Forty two points back at fifteen percent. Else registering in the low double digits. So This is sort of a reflection of what we ve seen nationally gregg, which is that among primary voters anyway, not among the country necessarily but among primary voters. Republicans, these this martyrdom that donald trump has professed seems to be working

surprising and it's not surprising. Its reflects other pole throughout the nation, but this is also in georgia. This is the scene of summit, non tranche, most humiliating setbacks, not just in twenty twenty. When you lost your mind hereby dearer than a thousand votes became the first republican alludes to state of george presidential elections way back a night any too, but also into twenty one when set Canada is running on the maghreb brand lost Democrats they control the chamber and, of course, in twenty twenty two when his hand picked election for the? U s: senate, herschel walker, Wendy,. and a foetus democratic, I feel warnock in the air This is a tromp, also a thirty three point leading hypothetical had had match up against Rhonda santa's. It shows the rhonda santas is no were close to striking distance donald trump in georgia, but at the same time, but it also shows that it was doesnt show is that, where middle of the road george voters set, because this is likely republican voters,

and we ve seen defection of a lot of those middle of the road swing independent used to vote traditionally for republicans in georgia, but bear they no longer, and so that that that's the block of voters that still could decide this election sera, whilst officials and those as part of the president binds relation campaign have long said. The georgia would probably the hardest state to keep interest state that he wanted twenty twenty to win again this time around the figure will be harder if it would not be donald trump atop, the ticket gregg with certainty. right now? All indications are that it will be trump again as the republican nominee. So in that hypothetical, let's say those poll numbers hold and trump sweeps through georgia, and that he's the g o p state again. What do you think that happens for like governor camp and secretary of state reference border, who have opposed trouble we step of the way in the last two odd years. Would they fallen line and basically become the republican soldiers again or do you think they would you try to keep him as best they can at arms distance

such an important question does not only have they oppose donald trump and then rejected his efforts to overturn the election. They also could be star witnesses in the old and the trial. happened as early as next year. Here in georgia, we lock the knave brian in particular, I said he will support over the nominee is is not set any kind words about donald trump, though even called him. The loser of the debate last week because he refused to show up on stage I think he'll take the same stance with hershel walker. He was not a huge fan of either last year in the senate race. He, stumping. For I'm just saying important as the republicans have a republican in the chamber, whether it be herschel, walker or anyone else, he does want a republican in the chamber. I think he'll do the same thing next year, nothing about how bad, thinks Joe binds agenda is for georgians rather than talking about a trumpet agenda himself, its enemy

stances in it to rail against donald trump did say we stood in the door as Donald trump try to flip an election on us and yet still in the end will support him. One more number from your paul that I think is fascinating to put up as as we let you go here, gregg witches. charges against trump in georgia if you put those top two mine's together. Fifty percent of on the state of georgia, this is primary voters, republican primary border, so half of primary boaters believed the charges are serious, are somewhat serious, not to say it's not serious at all. Forty four percent see that half of them saying yeah, the data, is pretty serious, are very serious but likely gregg. I'm gonna vote form anyway, exactly been a chunk of our day at ages? Yesterday, calling respondents who said exactly that they are worried about these charges. They think that he did wrong when he called reference berger and urged him to find exactly enough votes to overturn this defeat, but at the same time there indicating does that many of them are still willing to support donald trump,

primary and that's going to be the difference here in georgia. It Atlanta constitutions gregg blue steam, so plugged in always great to talk about all things. Georgia, thanks so much greatly appreciate it. Can I wanted that calendar that we showed a minute ago back up and just picture off in the shoes of a defence attorney for dialogue. Trying to navigate. All of this I mean we, we talk about the headline trials mix in their the e g carol, civil defamation suit january of next year, the pyramid scheme class action seat suit also january of next year, or way see we're georgia for rules on that in terms of starting the trial there. How did they? First of all, how did the prosecutors put the puzzle pieces together and then on the other side of it. How do you now, this as a defence Imagine what will they? Actually? I don't know if the prosecutors are going to coordinate, but yesterday we gotta hint that maybe the judges, coordinating is judged johnny chuck in it. She'd been in touch with that in new york or yahoo, as scheduled

trial there for margin and they were gonna de conflicts. Those potential dates but terms of doll, trumps, legal team and trouble himself and until resources, they're gonna have to devote too These various defences- it's it's I mean we ve never been here before for complex criminal trials attend, We all unfolding over there next year. You know yes, there's a lot of bombast and hyperbole when trump's lawyers go into court and talk about how long he says it's going to take, but in this case in this respect, they are correct that they have their work cut out for them. Here I mean it's just The amount of work they have to do to get ready for all for these separate trials and post the civil case that you mentioned. even though they know this not in there's some overlap between the legal team. Some people are different. It's just

mind, boggling and then you have donald trump. Who is going to be trying to run for president, even as he is devoting some resources to because the defendant has. be involved in his own defence. They know another certain things that only the defendant knows, and so, we are in for a real show. Next year, the sea this all plays out and in frankly, don't from it where I sit doesn't appear to have enough lawyers and enough legal resources. to really successfully the fact In all these cases in this compressed period, that's really part of it remit. His words were making they made in both flora and in washington before these federal judges that look. We need more because we just need the it gonna. Get legal resources on this so It he's a real disadvantage and that's not something to be taken lightly. Endless if you look at what judge chuck can put down yesterday, which is march, the fourth for a start date and what fani willis wants to do next year, they're all making very clear these are happening next year. Despite the recall

ass from dollar drugs team to push them to after the election anti cancer point I will try, doesn't have enough legal resources right now, but partially, that's because he keeps playing we go. We the chairs and judge check it really clear yesterday, the fact, MR laurel, that you're just coming onto this case doesn't mean that donald trump hasn't been sitting with these allegations for a long time and so going to allow this achieving cast of lawyers to be the occasion for delay. Here. I think you'll see that from the other judges as well, the fact that he can't some legal team is not the judges problem. We quite a year, eighteen months ahead, LISA reuben candle damien will be talking to you both quite a bit thanks. So much are there too, story. The morning the tropical system headed towards florida. Now, a category one hurricane, just upgraded this morning, dahlia expected to intensify rapidly through the gulf of mexico today and will landfall on forests gulf coast as early as tomorrow, twenty one million people currently under tropical storm and hurricane watch

long floors west coast, while high Sk areas are undermined. The tory evacuations this morning, the national, whether service morning dahlia, could bring life threatening, storm surge and hurricane force wines, as well as major floods, in some areas. In response to the hurricane president Biden, flora, governor Rhonda santa's did speak yesterday, no already has approved an emergency declaration for the state, while FEMA as pre deployed personnel. And assets santas announce the state has prepared two hundred thousand gallons of priests. Age fuel to be made available once the storm makes its way through, let's put a meteor out his anti lassen tracking

storm Angie good morning. What does this path? Look like good morning, wally! This path takes it straight into florida. This is a dangerous and life threatening situation. That's going to evolve over the next twenty four hours, basically right now, hurricane Adelia, coming in at category one, seventy five miles per hour that barely puts it into a hurricane status, but it's going to rapidly intensify here as we get through the next twenty ish hours before it makes landfall we're talking. It needs thirty five mile per hour increase in it's winds in order to be considered rapid intensification, it's going to definitely get that right now, moving north at fourteen miles per hour. At that pace is going to pickup as well as right now, leaving us with some rain across parts of cuba and moving into parts of florida later today with those outer rain bands, but check out all of these watches and warnings that we already have up. The tropical alerts include much of the state of florida, including a hurricane warning that goes around the parts of the big bend stretching down past Tampa bay. That area looks like it's going to be the most impacted. So let's talk about some of those impacts. We've got the track, taking it into parts of the gulf of mexico which, by the way, are ridiculously warm we're talking upper eighties for water temperatures there, and not just at the surface level. This is deep into the water. So, even as we see the mixing from the hurricane, it still has plenty of fuel likely becoming a category three if it makes landfall as a category three in this area. That will be the first time since nineteen fifty people there may have never seen a system like this working on sure it's going to bring life threatening, storm surge, and on top of that, some heavy rainfall. Some strong winds, of course, the storm surge, though willy this is going to be something that I really want people to take seriously, especially if you're on the right side of that storm where it comes on shore eight twelve feet, and that is ground level up to twelve feet. We're talking a stop sign is, is nine feet at most, it's really life threatening situation that will unfold their sizing up to be a major storm, aqua fence, going up around town Tampa general hospital to protect that hospitals continue to operates. Everybody should take this very seriously angelus. Then we back to throughout the

thanks. So much still haven't morning Joe president Biden, denounce the racially motivated shooting at afforded dollar store will say Those new remarks and what were learning about the gun, plus russian state media releases, rare video of jail, new s, citizen, Paul, wayland, talk to senator foreign relations committee, member chris Coon's about that and the to get released. Also had this morning from new jersey, governor in twenty twenty four presidential candidate. Chris Christie will be our guest with react into the date set for donald trump federal election interference trot morning, I'll be right, back

the hybrid. Then soggy. I'm excited to tell you that my weekly show on MSNBC inside with generosity is also available as applied past. I know from the I spent on campaign buses and foreign capitals and in the oval office that there is always more diverse story under the surface. On my show, we try to bring you inside all of it breaking down the things that matter and visiting with some of the most fascinating people in the news today. If we are not pro active about theory, aggressive addressing our infrastructure. Our workforce are preparation for the climate crisis in the car,

are going to be far greater search for it, I would just psyche Are you listening and follow their comes? point when a singular event shapes our future broadens our perspective and marks a crossroad in our cultural landscape. The turning in original documentary series from MSNBC films and executive producer trevor Noah that explores these watershed moment for the biggest issues of our time and asks how we got here, and we we go next. The turning point documentary series on em and we see and streaming on pick up you? Have alive picture beautiful to me anyway to every city, new york, city, six, thirty three in the morning on a tuesday journeys now or aid, george w bush white house and state departments. jordan and pulitzer prize winning calmness and associate editor of the washington post

eugene robinson know you guys have a score to settle you in the mere yes. All now I was I was sharing on. The team has been also played in the software game. Think Michael outta, my have been pretty disappointed. so this is a game last year that it defines loop More and more easier movement the european idea, it's a game of chess quiet, coaching present without their third based he's end. At last year, the writer squad we had a remarkable historic, combat victory letter. You may have played a significant role that this year we fought gamely but are come back, did felt gesture, but that yet so, but I expect luggage, working on next year's games? So you should expect the focal we could you suggest measure that would be the play. I listen. No at my phone is right here you may call. I can clarify one day. The little girls are. Let's talk about. new pauling- that were just getting about president Biden showing his

It is a significant concern for voters ahead of the twenty twenty four election, including among democrats. By the way I knew a p and our sea Paul finds three quarters more than three years of americans think Biden, who was eighty, is too old to serve. terms: seventy seven percent of them donald is just three years younger than Biden, but only fifty one percent of americans say he is too old to be effective in a second term, broken down by party percent of republican, say Biden is too old. Sixteen percent of Democrats, say he's too old and seventy four percent independence day, the same, in contrast twenty eight percent of republican, say trump, is too old versus seventy one percent of democrats about half of all independent, so eugene Robinson. This is something that the white house, I'd and campaign, cannot avoid. It is a reality. It might be uncomfortable for some people to talk about, but when you have private dinner

parties when you go out and at the ice cream place in the summer, people do even Democrats who, like Joe Biden and plan to support him, they do have concerns about his age. He afraid and it's just that, it's just the fact that they have to deal with it mean. The fact also is that those Democrats, I think, are are highly unlikely to say: ok, he's too old our vote for down on the third. I have to do that, and, and indeed if it is a prompt Biden rematch, I think it's very likely that the main question it will be donald trump and it's a stark binary choice. Do you want four more years of Biden that you want four more years of trump and and so I I think, the the the

into the camp. Is you know the fairly fairly confident on that score that that that's how it's going to come down, but it is, it is a problem, and it is ironic he's only three years older than donald trump. He is. He is visibly in in federal if the goal shape than donald trump- and you know, despite that- that that those figures from the the ga ga booking that have trumpets six three two fifteen, I'm sorry that is a that is a total fantasy and you know you see bryden riding his bicycle and doing all this stuff and and trump doing, none of that. But none of that seems to to stick and so This is just the brightness deal with a tonne It is absolutely right if you ask democrats the question yes, seven out of ten, that's a lot believe he's too old and they said we're going to vote for him. Of course, I'm gonna vote for him. I can't I'm not going to support donald trump. I guess the question is: is it

instead of an issue for those independents, the people in the middle who may be still on the fence of it yeah? I just had this conversation with a few senior democrats the last couple of days, and they acknowledge it as much I like talk publicly. They know the president's age is an issue in a wheel want they understand its legitimate concern for voters. That said, they believe if it's a head to head, especially with donald trump, that questions are the president's age will be outweighed by other matters that simply will be as important now. I do think that they can where she would change somewhat, at least if somehow not name Donald trump ended up being atop the ticket and the age gap be three years, but perhaps thirty years right now, of course, trump is far and away the favourite to be the robbing instead of arrogance. It really, We're just be almost black swan event, for some other than donald trump to get the nomination at this time. However, if it were saying Vicki hey who right now has enjoyed such a bomb

getting a real. Second look from a lot of big republican downers. Wish. If, if she got the nomination, I do think it would potentially be another story. The donald trump head to head it's going to go back to back more aware, is the economy right now. Where's the economy is gonna, be next october. Is your life better under Biden that it was under tromp in voting from there? But If the republicans could get their act together and viable e support someone else, it could be it. Forget you mentioned Nicky hellish. You just say explicitly that a vote for Joe Biden actually is a vote for common harris. Given the age of a president buying clearly by the way, continues to criticise fellow canada, vague promise swami on the issue of foreign policy, as she did at the debate last week, the former you and ambassador did not mention round the swami by name yesterday at a town hall in her home state of south carolina, but did refer his comments during that debate

So when you have somebody onstage. That's gonna say I'm just gonna. Let russia have this part of ukraine and I'm gonna tell them you can do. Anything with china going forward That's just naive. It's completely naive the other thing that bothers me is it is come neatly: narcissistic to think that america doesn't need friends. We do now friends. We do need allies. We should never stop doing that. We have a front line of defence with ukraine because they are Being putin from doing what he said, which is the next step, is poland and the ball x and that's a world war data what we are trying to prevent. Meanwhile, rama swami released in outline of its foreign policy agenda in an op ed for the american conservative, the biotech entrepreneurs said his administration would end. Aid to ukraine and would not the

taiwan from a chinese invasion after the united states quota, thieves, semi conductor, independence, so police, who has worked in the foreign policy space? What's your reaction to both of those ideas, FAO just a lotta leaps and bounds, their semi conductor, independence, how quickly is that can be achieved first of all and idea that we can completely separate ourselves from ukraine in europe, an overall security does sound fantastical and a bit and mature, but this The inner rama suavity is speaking in the same mode of so many dopey candidates, I'll just say, donald trump and oversimplifying given an easy, sound bite for hugely complex issue, and he thinks he's gonna reap benefits in the post war, iraq war years, which

the other candidates. I do I look at their farm policies and they need a wise up a bit too and adjust the realities that americans over all blocked to have a more restrained farm policy. There, actually so few policy differences between the republicans running for president, it's interesting that ukraine is one that has emerged words. A divide where we have from vice in the past or governor christie and fuel you're saying that what we need to keep the same, going way to keep your arm in cuba, russia, while others, including triumphantly around the swami glinda status, but otherwise that we should start scaling back staging robinson, as that plays out as the backdrop of career system. What you think that debate on the presidential level May I inform the debate coming up in congress because it's a few weeks now, where the wider No, they ve already submitted their their proposal. the hill for ukraine funding this the first time they will do so with

pop against control the house. We know there's some fringy republicans. There, who are very loud and very lockstep in option to any funding, but with so many of these national ones, also coming out in favour of at least curtailing it. How do you think that place? out on the hill? What do you think? What ass one of getting you know I think it complicates the the administration's attempt to get this this package through congress. I think it really does, and it doesn't necessarily doom it and Kevin Mccarthy has has you know kind of walked this type of tight rope sort of paying lip service to his right, while making clear

if he is in favor of continued a to to ukraine and and basically as a foreign policy traditionalist, but but you know what what are, what is his caucus going to going to do with his caucus going to go along with him? I think it'll have more problems than he would have had, and I, if, if if this were not the tenor of the debate, the other night, so it is leave. The thing will be fascinating. To see in terms of problem party is whether Nicky Hayley actually does get are polling bob from that debate she came off as an informed and reasonable and experienced, and of course the question is whether today's republican party wants informed, reasonable, were experienced and right now it looks like probably the party doesn't by,

Who knows, maybe she will emerge as a sort of the the anti trump alternate if I in the fullness of time, will sit and what is a polling bump. Even look like in this g, o p primary doesn't mean you're down thirty eight points. Instead of forty three points, you know that the margins are so wide. So it's interesting to note, as Nikki Haley called the fifth on the swami naive and in that clip and inexpensive, and he's making a virtue of that. The fact that he is a washington outsider. Well, there was eclipse leaning on social media of a two thousand three present the hall on MSNBC hardball, with Chris Matthews, with one reverend AL sharpen who is running for president two thousand for campaign, question by a young student, about his experience that student vic rama, swami, get. Let's go to my question.

We have adopted a little vague and I would ask you last week on the show we had senator carry and this week and in the week before, we had sent a red words and my question for you is of all democratic candidates out there. Why should I be the one with the least political experience weren't you shouldn't, because I have the most I got involved in the political movement when was twelve years old and I've been involved in Seoul policy for the next thirty years. So don't confuse people that a jaw would finance experience who were being la of some local bureaucracy has a job in cambridge That doesn't mean that they have political experience, and I don't mean to have these first. Run the united states, our governments, I think that we could feel title holders. Would political experience

as we have seen with the present occupied in the way of george bush, was a governor and clear the has. Surely that no political experience? twenty years ago october, two thousand three john- he s fascinating- that it was a vague run. The swami but also read on his feet? answer was a thousand he's so, where I heard from reverend sharp and this morning he is aware of the cliff. He says as you that he has no memory of that exchange. He talked to voters every day on the trail, but it does. It remained reminder of what run he had an end in two thousand and four and how fast he has always been with them with ants is whether we, each year on sat on the political stage or, of course

he's only sixty eight he's young again, there is young yeah he's fit and review of the common market, and lack of twenty eight are covered up. Next will read from genes new columns when he wrote in response to saturday's racially motivated attack and Jacksonville Florida. As we get new details about that story will come in here. Everyone on top of jobless from top story on NBC news now every night top story is your news. Playlist. We take you to the reminded the story, words actually happening with envy sinews journalists on the ground from all over the world we cover with. You

I need to know and bring your news feed to life and now top stories available as a podcast, so you can listen anytime and anywhere subscribe now for new episodes, every weeknight, the hey guys willie geist here, reminding you to check out this sunday sit down podcast on this week's episode. I get together with one of the biggest stars in hollywood. Michelle Williams, to talk about her oscar nominated role as Steven Spielberg's mother in the fable mints, the enduring impact of brokeback mountain and her latest acclaimed film. You can get our conversation now for for, ray wherever you download? Your pod casts classes at the university of north carolina chapel hill. This morning after a shooting on campus yesterday left affair

guilty. Member dead can be seen, use corresponded alley. Vitaly has details and alarming if too familiar theme, a college campuses locked down after a deadly shooting. You don't have. Is this time at university of north carolina chapel hill, I'm grieved report, that one of our faculty members was killed in this shooting losses devastating and the shooting damages. The trust and safe that we so often take for granted in our camp is community. It began with a school alert for an armed, dangerous person. Auto near campus. Go inside now avoid windows, just one week. Upper classes started millimetre cohesion: nail male heavily armed officer, swarming, the campus students walking down the street with hands up many posting picture sheltering in

I'd school building so immediately. We all just stayed hiding in the stalls squatting on the toilets, just scared, we didn't know what was happening is terrifying cause. You see that on your phone and you think it's just one of those things police putting out this boat about what they called a person of interest. Then what appeared to be an erasmus shown on NBC? w oreo. Another leading the person around vehicle in handcuffs, that's the person we saw sitting down the street with his hands behind his back. Getting into the back. that police car and just after four o clock, the campus, given the all clear Allie metallic reporting there from chapel hale. As of yesterday, investigators have not publicly identified the suspect or the faculty member who was killed police I said if they knew each other, but according to local news reports, the suspect is a doctoral student, at the university will have more on that as we get it now do an update on the racially motivated attack and jacksonville florida on Saturday a gunman shot and killed three black people at a dollar general store. Please say:

find a manifesto detailing his explicit hatred for black people stray a plan to abandon the city to commemorate the sixtyth anniversary of the march on washington, turned into a protest, in a call to end white supremacy someday as traitors condemn governor rhonda santa's, the so called anti woke agenda, suggesting it is provoking fear and hate present spoke during a white house event to mark the march on washington anniversary, calling, our kids, to do more to stop hate in criticising law makers who push extremists, policies. We can't let hate prevail. The rise, not diminish, silence, I believe, we've all said many times. Silence is complicity I can remove

and so we have to act against violence, a whole group of extreme people trying to erase history trying to walk away from the idea that we're sitting here. I never thought the present discussion on why books should be banned in american schools president. In house yesterday. Junior latest operate in washington post is titled. Black people are killed. For being black again in it. Jean rights quote, while thousands gathered saturday and the national malta marked the sixtyth anniversary of the march and washington, a racist, a man in Jacksonville Florida killed three african americans for the unforgivable crime of being african american governor Rhonda Santa said the right things, albeit awkwardly at a vigil for the dead on Sunday night. But the crowd was also to boost the santa has weakened the gun laws in florida, crusade, incessantly against weakness and his

and to the new curriculum in florida. Schools that downplays the long history of african americans being tar, it precisely because of the race, martin luther Things dream will never be realised until the nation fully confronts, acknowledges its history and mash Things will never end until the nation enact sensible laws to keep deadly weapons out of the hands of those would use them to kill. As you write jean. This is that lethal, a nation that we ve seen way too often in the last several years of explicit hatred and high powered weapons of a rich pusher,

hatred is not new in this country. It's the same thing that happened last year in buffalo, at the top supermarket, where ten black people were killed for being black and the same thing that happened in two thousand and fifteen at mother emanuel church in charleston, south carolina, where nine black people were killed for being black. It's the same thing will happen in nineteen fifty five in mississippi, with emmett till we're right around that anniversary. I mean it you know, and, and what really got to me was The way that involved in the intervening jacksonville Florida in florida, you're talking essentially whitewashing history which governs the Santer says has been doing and until we now in japan know this history, the history,

the of the long joke Jim crow period and the history of the violence that was that was committed during those decades against black people in this country across this country, and we're just not going to move forward and, and so it is shameful that their their efforts to in effect and hide that history. And then, of course, there is a separate issue of in which we talk about every time we have one of these shootings and a you know. You get you get hoarse from making this point, but you have to keep making it over and over again we're the only country that has more and then people were the only advanced country that has these mass shootings and police. acts and they'll, say in this case the shooter bought two guns legally pass the background, checks and everything went through quickly and easily. But again here we are in this case

innocent souls, one sitting, a car one walking into a dollar general store and in Eighteen year old work in a job at a dollar central store killed for it. action posts. Eugene Robinson, your column is up at the washington post, dot com. We appreciate it good to see you Everybody is Joe Scarborough. Did you you can stream morning Joe live on peacock. That's right! finally in the morning knows why feature every week day, beginning at six area has to pay tv, dot com, slash warning Joe from information see there