Two hundred thousand dollars on today the thing that georgia has done so far. I'm really glad to see it because they're signaling that georgia is not going to give donald trump any special treatment. The fate of donald trump is in his hands. If he continues to make choices now that he is out on bail for Chris all cases it is incumbent on the pro kitteridge and the judge to take action in two days, Donald trump says he will surrender to authorities in georgia as is now set to pay a two hundred thousand dollar bond. We're going to discuss the harsh terms included in trumps agreement, the warning from the judge and the former trump attorney said to surrender today and sale. So if you look at the stories and and look at the details of of the bond payments and is,

Your time said yesterday their questions. Some of these people, I rudy giuliani, maybe he'll- be able to pay it there on primary law. Here is gender Alice, others complaining about not having you know them money for further this big. This big can't think they expected donald trump to pay, but I think they expected a lot of things I think they thought I would can we we ve done, It's a good bit over the past several months. I think they thought that we will hear eyes were like that. Willie's, you know, look so nice instagram! You were a little scruffy shake. I was on vacation. No, she don't shave on vacation to each one. Then I kind of liked it on T v. Willy we come or christine You know that thing is make a willing. I didn't want to tell you this, but you have been doing some work together. They share. You know Mary film makers and asking us answers quite

time right out what happened to is actually in the seventies. We talk about it. A lot we actually found. Cassock study production company did once ice to do returned is simple, and so willie had been going there, alternating dunno, where you now a couple of times. I told you I would go and he already tried it out of your inescapable. That was like you were talking to willie about trump, go ahead, reacting reenacting scenes from our our capture and imprisonments referred. to leave actually at all. Others were released, brave that there was an easy, but we were there in a symbol for how long till year, year and a half I like to think about a strong? I don't like to think about it, but it was curious, early seventies. Yet I think we can get past, but anyway,

let's talk about now. Why not imprisonment? That is our job. There. You go there's so many there's so many people great said we have so many people, though, who did so many things? I always talk about the infowars guy, who said oh, I can lie sandy hook, parents- and I woke up now- a billion dollars You know a lot of lies about election mission, instead they just thought they could lie to pump up ratings. Billion dollars later they find out, they can't lie goes on, and on- and here you have people jenna Alice in others, they just sort of I'm I to still an election, Rudy giuliani, hey! Maybe get another five minutes of fame, and so their finding stuff I'll just say, got real their arc consequences to trying to steal and election there are consequences. Let may be more specific because it offers them rights. No, they were part of it,

Spirits say to create fragile, electors douro ways, Yet another electors who represented ten of millions of voters. Is the constitution said they would, and they just thought wine just go along for the ride with donald trump and what we're finding now, just the january six people who went just because linkage think it's gives Donald trump tells me it's right. I can. The hell out of cops now can't, which reminds me of his story we're going to talk about today about sheriff who say, we don't have to enforce laws. I mean I'm getting bored at this point people thinking, bacon, decide what the law is. Don't work

That way in America willie and there are consequences to these actions, gravity returns and the price is and the bill is coming do right now, all the way out the chain arming all the way to donald trump dimension. Rudely giuliani, Joe rooney giuliani, is a guy who has done for the last several years. Whatever donald trump told him to do while he was in the white house, then at the end, when he was trying to get going around the country and sweating through his hair died to try to overturn election state by state he now according to many reports and the new york times, we see right they're calling down from thing hey. I cannot what all these legal bills can you help me out and guess what he's finding out? He should have not a long time ago that a lot of other people have learn. Loyalty with donald trump is a one way street down from parents, bills will, You can get back to them: donald trump, not paying his own legal bills, twenty one million dollars out of the pockets of supporters of

is saying. I went out and committed all these alleged crimes and billionaire. At least I say I am, but I need you lol donor supporters to pay my bills and he will not share that money with even rudy giuliani. Billy professes to beat his closest friend is closest advisers. Now giuliani, getting the cold shoulder from donald trump, whereas we saw the new york post's headline, making new york post. Of course, the paper of record for morning Joe do do you have a post with you right now front on the cover of vets. Gets that, let's see, what is it we get the border wall over here paul details could sweep Jesus three five gates are some about diet, what're, you now it's maybe, really starting to ignore the yankees. Joe, which I don't even want to get into I've, been gone a little while and word seventeen gains at a first placed, but there's your update on the post this morning

and and willie. Please don't pretend that I'm so stupid that I don't know what you guys. do we have overrun last place? Guess why so with secretary it out at the kentucky derby is outside of that plan its part of the plan and the yankees you see you're going to complain, did not lose last night. By the way there are only about five games out from the wild card, they're going to win the wild card to get to win their twenty eighth world series and they're going to break our hearts. Nobody will talk in Boston, about bucky, dead, anymore they'll talk about the miracle of twenty three. The new york yankees winning at all and get it's getting this written off her lately they didn't lose, let's say because I didn't play. I appreciate you pointing that out and they are nine and a half gave the wild card and absolutely real It's sad. I your very sad about a job

I am just all I can say- is I'm glad little mir is not here because he would jinx the whole thing talk about it: incest, yeah, okay, along with Joe willie and me as you can see, we have u s special correspondent for bbc news, Katty kay doing way too early duties for us this week and pulitzer prize winning columnist, washington imposed eugene robinson good to have you do not want to talk about the washington. We're gonna, get a candle laney, an annual arbour middle way, when talking about the national joe, but I gotta say that candy did a terrific job. The sport this morning is absolutely spot on. It was perfect. ball. She did. It was great when we were off camera yesterday, jean I couldn't fence too that when I'm reading the baseball I may as well be german, and I do not speak german. I mean

for I really try and I have to focus so hard. It's the hottest segment of the whole issue, because honesty used for, if you do No, those words! You have no idea. What what does that mean? I don't know what that means anyway, I rarely apologize to you as good. You did so good. We love having, oh, my god, a film that is perfection. That is how I feel for our know. It just made me stop it. It's going to be better than the midnight express reference we had at the top of the show of willie and Joe in some jail in Istanbul. for a year and a half water when we have passed the hour there was it. It was a year closer than two years but willing? I aren't chaotic, is a long time ago and we're gonna get to KEN Delaney and barbara from acquired a fairy. If they haven't walked off the set just a moment on trumps thursday surrender, but first a number. that's stood out to us

from the new nbc- is des moines register and media companies in the survey. Forty one percent of likely caucus growers say they would want donald trump to continue as the leader of the geo p, but an even larger number. Fifty seven percent say it's time for the reply working party to find new leader events? Willie, that's about six out of ten according to my university element, is that art history, major degree means six out of ten republicans in the iowa caucus that are likely caucus goers are saying It's time to move on its define some new, and yesterday we we saw a clip from grew pale focus group out in iowa and there is. There is lady, basically was afraid on the air and admit that

she was moving away from donald trump. She wanted the republicans do when she was grateful for president tromp and all he did but it was time to move away and she had. She said that she was afraid if they come on the show afraid to talk to the border, and but she had to do it, because people needed to know that she was going. Do it, and I for the first time, hit me and make it I'm sort of seeing this. In our own life for their own friends who support donald trump, it's almost the reverse bradley effect? I moved on vat, want to win again, but they don't really comfortable admitting it especially to people that from says, where's horns and our enemies of the state are all the people that Donald trump his as as suggested that his supporters hey

So you have people quietly saying six out of ten, and I were there ready to move on. Your mother starting to kindly quietly move away, hoping the rest don't pick up on it, the more hard core members, and so again I agree with an seltzer. You look at those numbers this this this cake is not baked yeah- and you know that's If the number right there is sort of to your point, anecdotally, what you hear, which is there are hard core trump supporters who aren't going anywhere, they're unmovable the signs are all right. The flags are new for twenty and twenty four. It's actually less probably than forty one percent that we see there, but there are people here. I voted for the four so I'm just so tired and exhausted. Now we need to go through for trials, maybe they're your presidential election. Can somebody else bob another, not thrilled with their options and that the one

it'll be on stage tomorrow. Night in Milwaukee will see in that debate. If anybody kind of steps up in emerges, but that pole, Let the moyne register NBC news, Paul. If you read it, it's fast. waiting in its contradictions, because you see that number right there are sixty percent almost want to move on, and yet he's got away. Of what twenty five points or something like that. Twenty three points over the rest of the field and alone its percentage of the likely clock as voters. There say we dont think he really committed a crime so try to put all those. Pieces together. He didn't do anything worthy of keeping him out of the white house, but we want to move on its hard to make sense so that other than what you're saying, which is, maybe they don't I say to a pulsar from NBC news at the time when register that they ve done with trump, but maybe there I don't know it's it's a hard one to figure out. The fact remains that we, even with that latest number there were letting this morning that he is,

command of this primary right now, whether ekes out a victor wins big in iowa. He didn't have to be in that debate stage because is leading by such a wide margin in this primary right now, anyway, so former president donald trump travel to atlanta on thursday, two turned himself and after her in eighteen, others were indicted in a wide ranging election interference case. It's called an enterprise trump now the news himself on social media, the former president will report to the fulton care. a jail in atlanta for booking the county sheriff has said there will be a quote, hard locked down the street when he arrives district attorney funding. Less has given all dependent until noon on friday to voluntarily surrender trans lawyers have agreed to a too hundred thousand dollar bond. For the case, this is for trump himself.

First time he's been made to pay a cash bond, and that is just for the charges against tromp. That is a hunt thousand dollars higher than other known agreements for the other co defendants trumps and women also includes language not seen in the others. The order directly states, the former president, cannot intimidate his co defendants witnesses or otherwise. it's obstruct the case in any way a junior Jim Robinson. All of this is going to be playing out on thursday. The debate is going to be Wednesday night. It looks like again Donald trump's doing everything he can to distract he's talking about this interview going to be doing on twitter are acts or whatever, but it's gonna be a four day old interview nobody's gonna, be watching that I mean I'm sorry you let me I that back some people may be watching at time. Somebody our day afford ailed interview is not going to be news, and I I wonder if it's gonna how much is going to take away from the action

the bank, but this will end knows that the timing the next morning after the debate will completely smother out any news from from the debate itself We have to say, though, that cuts both ways. It eclipses them, but you know Jean VON Hilliard, you know when he was talking to those voters and I would add a couple of others saying I like donald trump, but it's I'm the move on there's too much and so they're gonna see a debate. serious people on stage the night before talking policy and then stay they're gonna, see donald trump, yellow getting as much and surrender into authorities for the fourth time I just wonder if that doesn't mean the exhaustion of those people that VON talk to another voters go up even higher. Well, if fascinating of that sort of flicks the sweat tour

really has an impact that contrast that we're going to see tomorrow night and then thursday morning, big questions, how many people are going to end the debate absent donald trump fox news, it certainly upset that dagger participate because We are counting on the ratings bump, so that's what they will see and and then absolutely right that someone could really shine in that debate. Someone could wipe the floor with the other contenders. Let's say: TIM's guy has a great night war or something like that and the next morning it's just it's gone to bed. New cycle has about two or three hours in it, and then it's all trump all the time, and that is that as a weapon that he is going to deploy throughout this

and pay in his ability to draw attention his ability to draw the television cameras and and now he's got four criminal proceedings in which to know to add to his repertoire of of look at me. Look at me, so this is going to be our year. This is what it's going to be like trump go. Look at me Look at me. and cabbie K, one person who is going to love how this all setting up his chris Christie, who now in a yesterday, Chris Chrissy moving at a second place in new Hampshire ahead of of ahead. there's this anderson and some others. But Chris she's gonna- absolutely love this and right now, if sixty percent of people in the republican party want to move on and iowa I'd say it's Let's say it's only forty percent around the rest of the country. I suspect it's probably higher

Christy has the ability with a forceful performance to start consolidating some of those one percent, those two percent, those three percent and people may see him as an alternative. These already in second place in iowa, again good bit, buying donald trump but recent consolidation comes their cause. He's going to stay here Talking about your future tomorrow. Donald trump is going to be indicted for the fourth time for obsessing about his past. pretty strong argument. Chris Chrissy, the former prosecutor, could make a critical case to be the only one pretty much on the stage to my pencil, Do it a little bit, but he's going to be the only one. Who's gonna take the fight directly to donald trump. It's still hard to see how he gets out of the single digits that he's in at the moment I mean do. Iowa just reward him for that. Do they think they still one,

somebody who is politically pure in the other interesting thing. In that NBC news to mourn register pole, was how many islands are saying that elected billowy is now the primary concern at the moment. What they want is somebody who represents their values and for the moment they they seem to think the donald trump is that person is going to be fascinating to see whether this does why me you're, right the back to back of the Wednesday night debate, followed by the as night. Arrayment is. That is that the moment that you know flips things back to normal. I've just been writing peace for the bbc about how this election is like Alice in wonderland is like what's up is down and what is up- and at some point you think that normal This is going to be resumed and the weight that donald trump has against him might start to pull him down. Maybe maybe voters are not in new Hampshire. Will look at an iowa will look at. You know the seriousness of the content on Wednesday night and that will be policy discussions on Wednesday night, which this country desperately needs, and then will

at the arrangement until thursday morning and then decide. You know actually that that that donald trump is, you know, is too exhausting and has too much baggage for them. If he's so far ahead in the polls. It's hard to see that route, but, but maybe just possible? Let's talk about some of those weights on donald trump with former: u s attorney barbara equating NBC news, justice and intelligence corresponded. Can Delaney and good morning to you. Both cannot start with you about this deal list bond deal workforce for the former president with the phone county district attorney funding willis Two hundred thousand dollars twice the other defendants, also more specifically can these rules set out about threats and would the cost of threats to donald trump if he goes after a co defend and if he goes out or witness if he tampering with the jury on and on down the list. What did you make? this. How unusual or some of these conditions of bond. Well we'll what we know is that we didn't see those conditions imposed on any of the other co defend.

in so far as it was striking I mean other judges in some of these. Other cases have virtually conveyed to donald trump or well, that he shouldn't threatened or try to intimidate witnesses are potential jurors. This lays it out in black and white in very clear terms, he's not allowed to threaten or intimidate co defendants witnesses potential. Yours are really anybody else and specific. It says, including by post or repose of material and others said on social media that that learning, which included really struck. A lot of people is very explicit, putting MR trump in a box now, The issue here, of course, is how does judge enforce it, because there is a lot of people that look at this and say don't jump with love nothing more than to have a seat asian, where judges bring him down to atlanta. This judge and and and potentially into jail him because he would just make another appeal to supporters and raise more money and and declare

himself off first amendment martyr, so Can we really difficult for the judge case and all the other cases to trial decide where the line is between doll drums first amendment rights to political speech. He's running for president and weeds or other rhetoric that crosses a line and intimidation or threats that that's just a tough situation. Experts believe they're gonna, give him a lot latitude and just one other separate point: what's happening Thursday is not an arraignment. It's a surrender only he's gonna be booked into the fulton, can jail. That's. What I think makes is different from all other situations which were both sort of payments and surrenders and I think, to the public. It got lost, civic got translators, Donald trump superior in court they don't drop is appearing in the fulton county jail where he'll be are printed and mug shotted, that's it, and so that it can be a striking image,

for the funeral president of the united states and at a local jail in the area around that jail is going to be locked down when the former president arrives there tomorrow so bb? That was my question for you about penalties. Let's if some of these conditions of bond he post something so threat or even repose something to one of the witnesses. In this case, what real decree will happen to him while the judge, a few options. Some of it is a warning which is probably the first step. The ultimate penalty, of course, would be to revoke the bond security know what they're doing here. By negotiating this term, they see what is happening in all of these other cases, where Donald trump is posting these things they saw what happened in this case, where he made despair. statements about one of the witnesses, the former lieutenant governor of. Order, and so they're trying to stop that, but as kansas I think it's going to be very difficult for a judge to use the Hammer wishes to revoke the bond in jail, Donald trump awaiting trial, but I

Donald trump doesn't want to mess around and find out, because that would be such ever consequence. I agree that maybe he wants to be a martyr for the first amended, but he very much once I think his liberty been jailed in in. the rice street jail while he awaits trial, is certainly no nick, and so I think, we'll see is it come close to the line. I think he will try to. Warning before he goes any further because its it will be a difficult decision for a judge to revoke the by but if a judge is really doing his job, he is going to see that job, is to enforce the law and to manage this case, regardless of any political consequences that might come. can you know in terms of process. I know we saw the actual indictment live our cameras gonna, be in there and then the other question is what do we know about the other co defendants? Making bond

last I heard, we don't expect cameras to to record the booking process. That's generally not done. I could be wrong about that, but that's the last I heard We know that, for example, among other co defendants, John eastman has posted hundred thousand dollars? and I believe, as a couple, others are not fully up to speed but weeks they all have to surrender before friday. So we expect They all of them one by one as you mentioned, we saw one of the co defendants Jana Ellis, complaining that damage is now taking care of her legal fees are helping out too pray her lost in any way, and you may see that sentiment under by some of these other people. Things are starting to get very serious for these people that allegedly engage in this conspiracy make up and Barbara the that donald trump put out. Entre social

talking about funny well, isn't going to possibly russia, russia, russia, because they think he's gonna get jail. I mean how close does that fall within the? kinds of restrictions that have been placed on them. Is that the kind of thing he can post or is that all right sailing a little close to the wind. I think it's close, but you'll notice that the term really are about witnesses in the case and about the public about inciting civil unrest, and so I think the judge. I think the process might be fair game. Buddy info criticising their motives and other kinds of things, but when it comes to threats, I think it's going to be different, so I imagine we will see. Donald trump skate as close to the line is possible. I think He knows he's gonna get along Lee. She knows he's gonna get at least a warning, and so I say I'm going after the prosecutor, of the witnesses, because she's, a public official- and so

first amendment right when it comes to public officials offer a lot of leeway. Former you. Attorney barbara, look, weighed and NBC kendall. Anyone. Thank you both very much for being on this morning. Watch british or would they used to be ever since without explaining when I was little? We worry about buffering now, has just worry about this or cooler reward. That's vacancies the best way to stream your favorite chosen movies is on the expenditure. Ten g network restrictions apply Another new number just released from the new NBC news to mine register media comes survey, shows fifty one percent say I believe Donald trump's claims that the two thousand and twenty election was stolen from him. Forty one percent say they don't believe that eight percent said they're. Just not sure belief in the so called big lie. Is most prevalent among iowans, making less than seventy thousand.

Dollars a year with sixty nine percent of them, trusting trump sixty two percent of iowa evangelicals and fifty nine percent of those without college. is also believe the election. Mr willie, we can weaken. You know this is the sort of thing I just don't know how much to pay attention to this I mean I don't want to it. I don't want to freak anybody out at home, so please, please hold on whatever you're holding on to, but there is a point two thousand five, where sixty percent of Democrats thought nine eleven was inside job dissipate, sir We get the moon a landing conspiracies. We got yellow the J of K. Conspiracy is not always say your kid spirit and means that residents Joe it's different, and yet

it's the different really knew where I was going there go on the figures, fifty. One percent of republicans think that maybe the election was ok that to me is ground noise. Ninety percent we got an issue going fifty one percent again, question- is again: this reverse bradley effect get a call and you're. I iowa and you like the media's been like talking down to your whole life. Did you go hi, I'm from new york city. Do you think that the election was one from donald trump, or if from even even the deployment register pulling out fed in your an there's just scepticism, So I think my point is and will he's trying to figure out. Why point is, is I think that fifty one percent actually a lower number than I would have expected at this point in the middle Indictments from people that done,

some say, or the devil coming after him, and I just There's this rising exhaustion At the same time I see other poles and show, while fifty one percent may think this a majority of violence. I believe I saw said, let's stop talking about the twin twenty election. I'm hearing that from Republicans that's almost it's a seventy seventy five percent proposition? They say she don't standing up. Let's not talk about twenty twenty anymore. let's talk about winning in twenty twenty, four, I think, you're right about that, and I think I think the problem is two things number one. Donald trump is a different vessel than we had in any of those other examples that you laid out, meaning there are alive. people in this country, a lot of republicans who take what he says as gospel, almost literally in that pull that we talked about yesterday, where they believe what Donald says more than their family and friends or their pastor that all the people we.

rather than boring teachers and our coaches. That's a guy whatever he says, goes for many people in this country. That's one thing and I think the other question is: what's the alternative. If it's not die, tromp, everyone who is exhausted- and I agree that a lotta republicans exhausted by donald trump. Where did they go, maybe thought was rhonda santas for six months now, it's been I don't know. Maybe it's not what we thought he was gets another shot tomorrow, night, no milwaukee to impress some people so we'll see if the people org awesome confined somewhere else to go. Let's talk more about that was senior calmness at the daily beast. Matt Louis met your latest pieces, titled trump voters I don't believe in polls or the media only in trump, so I'll. Let you explain the headline a little more and help us suss out what we're seeing in these polls, which is that a lot of people think he committed a crime but also accused, don't they commit a crime, they still support him, and yet sixty percent. Almost in this paul- and I would say we hope so-

The else emerges right, So basically I looked at these three prominent falls. It happened. Lay one, as is a people that basically showed fifty three ten of americans, not republicans, but general election voters would not vote for trial under any circumstance. Ah then I looked at the CBS news. You got Paul Andy We see news iowa at the moon register, Paul basically, what I concluded is, if you believe, those three Paul's and that's the caviar. essentially donald trump. Can't win, a general election, but he also care Booze a primary and this is unusual right because normally, if you are perceived to be unelected when a general election that would preclude you from winning the primary but of course what we ve seen as that republic ends, at least according to these recent polls are

really persuadable they're, not really movable. They don't care about. The elected billowy issue. I think to only twenty nine percent cry is the ability to beat Joe Biden when it comes to making their their primary decision You just noted there now Not only will they not listen to pollsters or the establishment media, they won't listen to their families as opposed to donald trump. They won't listen to their claws. energy? So it's really hard to imagine a scenario where Donald trump again, you know the caviar here is, if you believe the recent ola, hard to imagine a scenario where, donald trump doesn't become beaver. I'll anomaly. about their that we ve been here and g for so long. That I will vote is a deeply religious. So there

Christian. You then chillicothe. Do you go to my love, Jesus leaving here and there I dare say little had raining. Robert said wine in nineteen eighty eight hour. Maybe I sack- and I don't know- maybe one eyed- I don't remember- we ve been hearing. There's ride years, now what do we find out? it thrust- a For two foreign to him. We, tv show how's who new york judge called a rapist. To brag about actually molesting women saying that it's a way it's always been, and maybe that's a good thing that he doesn't know whether it's good or not, twice as many of these vulgar morningstar born our pay off illegal

You know what I'm talking about. Nobody wants. Why are illegal but now twice. As many of them basically say. We trust that guy over a minister of Jesus Christ, you're and save dodgy. No, I mean it's just what what those numbers suggest is that a whole lot of people in iowa are going to hell here for hear that we are going to be received in iowa. That is ours. That is an incredible figure from that poll. the baby food from trump over. Therefore, making warrior like what you hear. How are you thinking of of your christine?

What the? How are you thinking of your faith and it took to get to to that point, and I know it I mad, I think you're, you make an incredible point there. A bike bitten. So can we write the story? Events, mercury already written Donald trump wins the primary and loses the general and admit that seems to be well off Numbers are suggesting Is there any way the republican party can avoid this well. You know, I think, but Joe has been talking about this morning is: is the possibility right that up until now, in the last two elections. Donald trump would really underperform. Among pollsters people

would be shy about admitting they didn't want to admit they were going to vote for donald trump, but then they would so. The question is: has that reversed now? Is it possible that republican voters want to tell the one that republican voters want to tell pollsters want to tell the media they're supporting trump, but secretly open to another possibility, and so this brings us. I guess the teasing, the debate on Wednesday night. I mean this is an opportunity. Donald trump will not be there. So I ran this at this, who is clearly and second is now finally has an opportunity to. I don't want to close the deal but have opened the deal to to make himself a viable alternative. he do I am sceptical via the balls at his court.

Now. The balls I maybe we're gonna- have to iron out between now and to morrow night get a personality, I'm serious lotteries, and I'm not joking at all. Logging in tackling, I would say rude, say actually talk about these. that actually babbled matter to make kind, publicans yeah try not to try to get people boy grew: try not to focus on these rights we really really wedge issues in the state of florida. That don't mean anything to rest. The country try to explain your six week. Abortion ban, I mean you run dissent, as is the next guy? That's we gotta get along way. To I mean you, don't think why you coming to you for a forum for debate, fortunately for in it in a well fortune, before him and then I awoke republican debate by nice be nice to catch a good place to start pretty senior columnist for the daily beast bout Louis. We thank you

mad for joining us, the major for bringing winston and joan along for the ride. So so by the way willie bob dole, one, I'm told the nineteen eighty eight by the way. I think that Robertson's was in was second ways. But again you know the funny thing is. I can almost hear people mocking us for saying that people secretly dont want from, land, but they won't say publicly, but its own people words are marcus business. I shall read about it they're the ones quietly sang it off camera politicians will go on cameroon. The alps be then go off cameron and say it's allows, you have people at or another that indicates cable news networks talking from trump they get off and the site, bathing he's a nightmare. I just I really except when he was president, I must say I just I don't talk to any people

or here from any people who are pushing Donald trump on the air they say the same thing off the air anymore. They know it's a disaster. That was one of the amazing things that came out and all that discussion. We await the voting. Company has all of the people that, where the biggest trump supporters on air, having trashing him off the air, but again mother shock because we ve been hearing that some politicians and cable tv news hosts for seven years now. and the Republicans, especially I'm thinking of leadership in the congress of that so many chances to be leaders into accept one of the many many off ramps given to them by Donald, whether it was on the day of january six, lindsey grandma's the prime example beating the lectern saying I'm done I'm out and then change his mind when you got chase through the airport by people calling him a trader, Kevin Mccarthy, he's indictments what about hunter Biden. They ve had chances

walk away from donald trump and have taken none of them, although it point out. If you talk to them privately, they will their there sick of it, but they fear not even him so much, they fear as voters. Crossing, maybe they'll lose their own power and is their own seats? So here we are with people privately protesting, donald trump and saying what somebody else come along and save us. Please Glenn young. Can we keep hearing them? and young can example the virginia governor as somebody else out there. It's our irish, casting it's me, somebody else to save them from donald trump boy right now, it sure doesn't look like it. today they keep sending flares up actually over the governors mansion enlargement, will you we are at last night and it was like- the name young candidates, was heard it always waiting for his anger. I hope not social there comes up wait when a singular event shapes our future, broadens our perspective

and marks a cross road in our cultural landscape. The turning point in a regional documentary series from MSNBC films and executive producer trevor Noah that explore these watershed moment, for the big issues of our time and asks we got here and where we go next, the turning point documentary series on MSNBC and streaming on pick up the war in ukraine nearly the year and a half mark this week. New reporting from the washington post is highlighting ukraine's efforts to effectively deploy the cluster bombs provided by the united states. Speaking Ukrainian soldiers, the post reports, the cluster bombs, have proven useful in warding off russian advances, as one soldier puts it. The main and if fit of the cluster bombs is that the enemy is now very scared to go on assault genius now with more the story, national security reported for the Washington post john hudson John good morning, so obviously just that

transfer of these cluster bombs in these munitions from the united states to Ukraine was controversial, a good number of Democrats voted against it in that defence bill. These are bombs and been outlawed in many countries around the world. How they being used and what is their significance on the battlefield? Yeah, that's exactly This is the most controversial arms transfer of by this presidency. So when I went to ukraine with my colleagues and went to the front lines, we wanted to learn how there being used. There being a important impact when it comes to the defence of ukraine. Right now, the russians are pushing in northern and eastern ukraine and why The ukrainians are firing these against oppression, infantry, it basically stuff. The assault. You have russians immediately seeking hard cover and its playing an it role in helping the ukrainians preserve force power, its also

Ukraine's shoot into dense forests, where they can't exactly see where their target is, and he'll russian infantry that are exposed. It's also a dave against on armoured vehicles and has caused a number of russian convoys to scatter and scamper indifferent left in disarray. It's also having an important impact on helping the ukrainians continue the offensive and stretched out, as you know, the ukrainians, are low on artillery and this support, is helping them beef up the amount of artillery they have at this, in time there concerns about what the unexploded ordnance, we'll do when, God willing? This conflict comes to an end at some point, as you know these bomblets can last for years and years, and one of the artillery brigades I spoke to said that their

really and accounting practices in place. That obviously contradicts what what officials in kiev and washington have said, which is that the dish in that the? U s would send these cluster bombs was that they would be well accounted for. We ve got a number of different ways that these are being used and some continuing concerns about what how they might impact everyday ukrainians, when the war comes to an end? yeah. John, I mean the reality. Is it's very hard for the americans to keep eyes on what happens to those weapons once they cross the border and whose hands they end up in these cluster bombs Any impact on the mind feels that the russians have laid, because my understanding is that that's been one of the things that really stalled the ukrainians in their offensive, pushes that the russians just had that much time to delay. You know miles long areas with mines and that stopping the ukrainians get through that land. It's point

The minefields have been devastating to blunting the ukrainian offensive, and it's why they haven't advanced as far as they can these webs of trenches and mines. The difficulty with with cluster munitions. Is that their more effective again infantry that are ex, in up and around, as opposed to infringing that are burrowed into trenches, and so they have had some effect. Unbundled up mines that are in fields but that and then the main purpose and and then the main benefit it did spend more complex. really the advantage is, is hitting exposed infantry and that's why you continue to have problems with the ukrainians pushing for further south in cutting that important land bridge to crimea, even though they have this large arsenal of? U s provided cluster munitions. John stepped back for a moment, and just

overall, from your trip? Has the ukrainian offensive stalled or is it making progress? Well, we did, at the end amid say ukraine to back a significant amount of its territory, made progress cutting this land bridge or not in these were very difficult discussions with troops near the front lines there exhausted. They have been fighting for a very long time. Many of them haven't had breaks in a very long time. There is very strong belief in the importance of their cause, they are defending the ukrainian homeland, but they it is is not having a breakthrough in that you just can't deny that. That is the case. There is the hope that the ukrainian forces we're going to push far south capture towns cut, such as maillet total and really prevent these russian supply routes that are really feeding this invasion.

in those supply routes. They haven't been able to do that. The offensive is not over yet, but it is It is not going as far as ukrainians hoped it would at this point in time. National security for the washington post John hudson. Thank you very much for your reporting and insight this morning. Have you ever wanted to provide and ass in b c, with your opinion about the tv programmes, newsletters podcast in more now sure chance, when usually MSNBC insights, community you'll get periodic online surveys about MSNBC this Msnbc dotcom, slash insights to join the community today.