Our national parks and forests are home to some of the most picturesque views on the globe, but sometimes the most beautiful places hide the darkest secrets, I'm Delia gm fora and, in my show park predators. That's what I'm here to warn you about join me every two they all summer long as we dive into cases that continue to heart. The histories of these beautiful destinations, listen to park predators. Now, wherever you listen to pod, casts. When I was a federal prosecutor, I would occasionally send out get letters I wouldn't send out a target letter to somebody that I did not intend to involve indict they're, not bluff. Sir. games are not make believe so. Here's what you ought to expect if MR trumpery did receive a target letter. Then he will be charged with federal crimes. If he really received a target letter that will happen relatively soon,

question this morning is how soon we are back on indictment watch again for donald trump. All signs, pointing to a second federal indictment for the former president withdrew the possible time in just a moment also ahead: more partisan politics from the republican control house as speaker, Kevin Mccarthy. floats impeachment inquiry for president by would get into that plus alive report israel on the fall out from a monumental vote by that country's parliament. Limiting a key power of its supreme court and sparkling massive protests across the country good morning. Welcome to morning Joe, it is today the July twenty fifth with us. This morning, MSNBC contributor, our good friend mike particle former aide to the george w bush white house, the state department's, another of our good friends at least stored in the hostess, he too early whitehouse bureau chiefs, politico Jonathan mummy.

He s a good friend. She was waiting for. I saw you needed at John, so I put it in their pulitzer prize winning calmness, associate editor of the Washington post boy, another of our dear friends on a summer morning, Eugene robin said good morning to you. Also, the grand jury convened by special council jack smith, will meet today in washington to continue its work on the probe into doll. Trumps efforts to overcome the legitimate results of the twenty twenty presidential election is possible. The jury vote today on whether to indict the former president. The panel normally needs on thursdays as well, so it could be that day. Here is what, for acting? U s. Solicitor general neal katyal had to say last night on MSNBC the ritz tomorrow or thursdays andrew weissmann says war. something in two weeks. I think all indications are donald trump is going to get indicted,

smith sent a target letter to Donald last sunday you don't do that, particularly against the former president where's, your pretty sure that you ve got the goods may well. president, the former president, continues to fund raise off of his legal trouble in a campaign email last night that twenty twenty four candidate proclaimed myself an innocent man, as you might expect, adding quote our country could truly use your support right now. Send me some money sub text in another. He compared the united states your present Joe Biden to start russia and maoist china. Nowhere in those emails does it say that you will be done directly to trumps twenty twenty four campaign. Why? Because, as wash imposed. Reports more than half of the money. Donald trump raised in the second quarter of this year went toward footing his legal bills, not the campaign itself again says he's a billionaire asking his supporters to pay his legal bills. So

Jokela mere you are in washington, wherever ones waiting for the potential today may be Thursday could be next week. We just don't know of when this in, men could come down, not really a question of gear. Forgive the target letter, as Neil just pointed out, we saw last week, but when yeah, really I've been washed in all week and the capital city is above. There is an anticipation. This is just a matter of days as noted. The grand jury meets tuesdays thursdays. There has been certainly a lot of chatter here in the belt way that today would be the day. The grand jury votes to indict media trucks are lined up outside the court house where that grand jury has been meeting where jack Psmith and his team have been moving in and out of form. now. What does a shrine investigation, one that, with all sort of short, indeed, as the january sticks investigation, to be clear for present transactions that day or should we say, inaction that day is a part of this have fuelling that right at the capital that was somewhat that's committed in his name, but

more than just january sex. It is the election interference, investigation, probe, indeed, trumps, efforts to overturn the twenty when a election essay sprawling massive one that is contained we were nowhere hearing about new people coming before the grand jury, but it does in that we are now a matter of days before that indictment. Stork. Second federal indictment of a former president some will say that a nation is watching with bated breath because of the eradication of the upcoming campaign and certainly on the history books, with ever been here before, and it seems like what the final hours of this problem- they really is an extraordinary moment- might barnacle in the history of the country. Just did already has been with two indictments one federal one here in new york city. We have a trial date or the previous indictment down in full. Furthermore, a legal documents case of may twenty fourth of next year. That's on the dark it

and now we may get a date coming up here in the next several weeks for another care, federal, taste or president could be facing, while he seeking head back to the way sooner Jonathan said we ve never been here before, in the sense that obviously true, but in another sense we Then he had before we ve been here before when the sitting on a former in those days was indicted. A few months ago he's been I did how many times now Learn is a big similar. There are so Not only have we ve been here before this in a sense when you look at it and you think about it, you think of everything we hear from all the extra we talk to its both predictable and yet normally sad a present presently united states life. I think we have to look at this as not simply an election process in election campaign up until november, twenty twenty four

The stakes are higher for donald trump. He is using the campaign platform to essentially fight these indictments and to stay of legal trouble. This has become more Referendum on the future of american democracy now will voters on either side except the results of the next selection. When Donald trump is telling his supporters that the election is rigged that he was cheated and twenty twenty how's that can get any better and twenty twenty four What will they accept rule? They accept the fact that president former president nine states could be about to go to trial right and gene robinson we're going to get into the story in just a moment, but yet another of the people that was sent to the capital that went to the capital. That heard the lie that jonathan le mere wrote, an entire book about about the election, is going to jail for more than four and a half years, while the details of that coming up next, but this does get at what the least touched on, which is will

lie persists. Will if Donald trump loses two twenty twenty four presidential election? If he makes it that far too general will he eighty one that one will people learn the lesson of that, or is this now just a piece of the republican politic, which is that if you lose an election, just say one and see what happens well, bye, bye we can't answer the first question if he makes it all the way it makes it through the primary becomes. The republican candidate makes it all the way to the election without being convicted and thrown in jail or having to step out of the race. Because of his legal troubles or whatever else, obviously he's going to claim victory. No matter what happens, you can lose in a landslide he's going to claim that he actually won that it was rigged. We've we've heard it all before. The question is whether that has

diminishing currency among voters. Even when we get to that point and are you have to give us that there will be a core a hard core of prompt supporters, will believe everything he says and believe he's being persecuted and and that by intention that they are being persecuted because he is their leader is being persecuted, but will that hard core shrink or will it be an act? And I think you have to you have to guess probably it well, but maybe it won't. We we just don't know we are in uncharted territory more on the lie that got donald trump into this trouble from acting deputy attorney general. Richard donoghue tells NBC news. He has been interviewed by special council Jack Smith's office, he added he has not been called to testify before

The grand jury investigating the twenty twenty election in january sex, the former dio jason he'll toll house lawmakers last year, he repeatedly pushed back against useless claims of a stolen election that were being peddled by trumpet his allies here, is some of what donoghue testified to before the house january six committee conversation he had with then president trump just days before the capital insurrection. Let's take a look at another one of your notes you also noted that MR rose and sent to Mr Tromp quote d. O J can and won't nap its fingers and change. Welcome to the election, how did the president respond to that? Sir? He responded. very quickly and said essentially that someone You do well, I'm just asking you to do is just say it was corrupt and leave the rest to me in the republican. Conversely, as june of last year, before the january six committee dawning. You also said he threatened to resign during oval office meeting in early january, twenty twenty one when tromp came

those two installing election, denying environmental lawyer Jeffrey clark. As attorney general, No special council jackson s office also now it's thousands of pages of documents from an ally of Rudy giuliani, who failed to find evidence of voter fraud after the two thousand and twenty election, an attorney for former new york city police, commissioner Bernie kerik handed over the nation on sunday and opposed and social media care road. He had been subpoenaed months ago and his lawyer, TIM parliamentary recent receive waivers from donald trump team to release them are later resign from trumps legal team back in April, confer Turning over the documents, adding he quote, looks forward to sitting down with them in about two weeks to discuss that sprang into the recession, for where? U s attorney for the north. District of alabama, anne and emerson legal analysed, Joyce, vance Joyce good morning. Let's start within meant watch here. What do you suspect

is going on inside the grand jury room. What is going on in the special councils office? How soon We expect an announcement of what most people believe will be an indictment of the former president. So I think that obviously the question that we're all fixated on you know what's the real time line here and unfortunately for us as observers, it's awfully tough to say at this point. On the one hand, sending the target letter telling the former president if his retelling is true hold that he had four days to respond and appearance, the grand jury. Will that made it look like? We would see an indictment even as as early as last week, which we know didn't happen, but pushing back against that fast timeline. Is this notion that. The special council is still talking with witnesses, still engaging in interviews so willie. I think answer is that while we could see an indictment any day, it's possible that there can be a strategy for it.

Since to indict tromp alone and to continue the work on the rest of the case, seems a little bit far fetched to me. This is a case where you won't play everything by the books. You want to treat this indictment like you were, any other pace prepared against any and all of the defendants you're. Looking out, we are told there is a conspiracy charge. That means that trump would not we stand alone defendant. He would need to have some co. Defendants looks deejay is, is tying up the last two things that they need in terms of details and that they will Indeed, at some point in the next couple of weeks, perhaps as early as this week, I think a little bit more likely a couple of weeks out. Joyce. Obviously we have no sense of the caught the complete folded the jack smith has put together in his people have put together but from but basically what, with red we know from reporting thus far, would you be comfortable in trying to prove intent to deceive

The federal government and the people of the united states of america, or not is the fact that he claims that he won the election. Would you be comfortable going forward and trying to prove intent right now, based on publicly known evidence dear special councils office will have a strong folder of evidence that will help them a stand to injury, that trunk knew he lost the election. If didn't actually know it's only because he was wilfully blind to that fact and there's a legal doctrine. Willful blindness that says you can't just stick head in the sand and be an ostrich once something becomes obvious. You know learned this morning that rich donoghue, the former deputy attorney general, that he has now sat down with despair the council's office and his testimony is chilling he takes

of these late december calls and then an in person meeting with tromp, where they tell trump that acting in turn general Jeff rose and says I going to snap my fingers, geo J can't change the outcome of the election, the election that you lost and then the former president says, according to Donny No, no! No! You don't need to go that far just announced that there an investigation and abroad and I'll take it from there that exchange loan is showing that in that regard, might so the january six riders man who carried out one of the most appalling attacks the appalling moments of that terrible day is now the jail he beat. A police officer with flagpole. While the officer was being dragged down the capital steps, the man now will serve more than four years in federal prison. His name is Peter stagger who sends yesterday he claims he thought The officer was a member of antifa that didn't hold up in court prosecutors asked? He gets six years.

the prison, citing staggers quote chile motivation and the brutality of the assault that you're watching. Beating a police officer with an american flag, but Lowered the sense of bad, citing staggers horrible upbringing more than one thousand people have charge so fine connection to the january six attack or the three There have been sentenced to serve time in prison and illegal say it again. Joe would say if he was here that there are consequences today. Donald trump thought he could send these people out. You could ask them for money. He could call them heroes can create a chorus and acquire of january six writers who now in jail, but there an awful lot. Of them sitting in jail because of what not just down trumpet alot of people told them true and the actions they carried out that day because of one that's a pretty z case, cut and dry right and wrong. Beating a policeman with the pole, you're going to end up with

prison time. That's not exactly a case. You look at and say: oh that's, political persecution. There Joyce. I would ask you what is it going to take when it comes to what crimes are against donald trump? For any those allegations actually stick conspiratorial charges. Charges of directing violence of inciting violence. It just doesn't play the same way when it comes to the political optics of the court room and american public sentiment. That's right, at least, and I think, we'll see that reflected in the charging decisions that jack Psmith will make. He will not stretch the evidence further, then it goes when its presented to a jury. So I think we ll see a focus.

on a conspiracy to interfere with the functioning of government to interfere with the certification of the electoral college boat. Perhaps, to interfere with the transfer of power now this sort of information that we get from what we ve learned about this target letter that it will focus on the conspiracies with the Where is trying to convince trumped after he's been told, you lost the elections after judges and bidding judges that he put on the bench have ruled against him in court. Over and over and over again, it seems to me that he becomes more desperate. He loses in court. He latch on to this utterly

an aid scheme to create slights, a fake electors and seven different states, and to use those fake slates of electors to change the outcome of the vote. There are changing the outcome of the vote nationwide and when that looks like it's designed to fail, he ultimately becomes focused on not interrupting the. That's going on in the capital sitting there for a couple of hours. Well, violence is ongoing, as people tell him that he can stop it, and he refuses to do that why jack smith might ask a jury with the former president refused to stop the violence? Will you can infer from that that can intended it to continue to its logical outcome? He still wanted to interfere with governmental processes. at the end of the day, it's that sort of dry sounding crime, that prosecutors will take to a jury. But the facts are not dry. We all watched them unfold in front of us,

and that's the thing there's video of all- that we will wait together and will call you right back as soon as we get any news on this former. U s attorney Joyce fans Joyce thanks! So much I think going back to the man who attacked the police officer in the capital steps had just over four years in prison. One of these reasons he gets prison time was because his motive, and he should be specific about what he said he was captured on video that day end quote: every single one of those capital law enforcement officers. Death is the remedy. That is the only remedy they get that man talking. police officers, defending the capital against attacked, there's a path here John, that we're seeing me you can pick up the newspaper almost any place you live. This man was from arkansas, you can read about it here in new york or all over. The country were somebody who went to the capital base and something they heard from Donald trump basins, something they made her on the news that they watch or the websites they read. Dick carried out of crime

then immediately when they realized all this is a crime and that we're not here on some holy mission, they're going to jail and at that moment, apparently, in with you re, the court records he called his wife and said, I've done something terrible, a minute turn myself in when I get back home to and saw, but the crimes crime doesn't matter for feel bad about it again, a lot of them their responsible for their actions. That day, but driven there by the law, you wrote about in your book? Death is the remedy. That's gonna, be that's a hard thing here. Yes, that is actually right willie and it was a lie that was months and for years in the making donald trump His candidacy in two thousand and sixteen started planting the seeds of the idea that an election could be rigged if he were to lose that he could only lose if it was fixed against him, and he took his time in office where he may strange conspiracy theories, big lie small lies on matters

of little significance to some of the most important tenants of our democracy. Now was out of bounds for his lies, a focused in on, of course, this election and dish and his supporters encouraged his supporters to not trust What I do not trust the government to only trust his conspiracy theories and then to commit violence. As name eugene robinson and we ve been asking for months now. As we saw these rioters, these protests are starting to be tried and convicted and sentenced, when would the person who sent them there be held accountable, and it now seems like we are on the eve of that happening. Like it, and it has to happen you can't professor. You try and punish all the foot soldiers all the people carried out this violence and not work your way up the chain, and especially not in finishing

made, an african id and the appropriate indict the person who inspired at all the person who who bribed them up and sent them off to the capital to disrupt the search the creation of a free and fair presidential election that that person lost, and that was donald trump in ina. What's what's really fascinating that that that that man just sentenced to believe that the only remedy remedy before the capitol police officers was death. It will be fascinating years from now when historians look back and- and I wonder if what was the precondition in can society what was the sickness that donald trump was able to exploit? He didn't start. Couldn't have said:

and all this from scratch. There was something there that was waiting to be triggered by and a completely and unscrupulous political figure like donald trump and and and and he did it, he continues to do it. He continues to have these adherents and any you just wonder what what the right sort of at the bed, the heart of european society that allowed this to happen in the bill, do more than a thousand people have been charged with federal crimes around the capital attack or thence Six hundred of them have pledged guilty six hundred receiving sentences, hundreds of them now, sir. jail time because of that lie, and because of their actions that day were to come back to that story in December what a major story developing this morning overseas. Israel's parliament passed a mess. That limits- the power of the country's judiciary system new york times, describing it as one that will strip Israel supreme court of the power to

return government actions and appointments it deems unreasonable? Yesterday's vote cap, a month's long process the two thousands of protesters to the streets and sparked intent. Bait within the israeli parliament measure passed by a vote of six, for two zero. After all of the opposition, members walked out of the connects it joining us now live and tel Aviv NBC news, foreign correspondent, wrath sanchez, so rapid. Does it look like there today Willie israelis woke up this morning to a divided nation, a nation potentially more divided than in any other point in its seventy five year. History, really, this is all the major israeli newspaper front pages look like today, all blue. and it says there in the bottom in hebrew, a dark day for democracy, and that is the feeling among the protesters today, a lot of people very very,

Worried about the future of this country, one moment we spoke to yesterday was protesting outside of parliament had tears in her eyes, and she said she did not know what she was going to say. her children about Israel's future, a lot of concern. For palestinians living in the occupied west bank, for the rights of women for the djibouti, Q, community and furthest secular half of israel just are you a sense of what their worried about just hours after that bill went through weakening the soup in courts, ability to be a check on the government's one of net near, whose religious allies introduced a bill that would put religious studies studying the Torah on par national military service. Now, it's not clear if that bill is actually going to make it into law or not, but that is the key the thing that secular israelis are worried about in terms of where their country is headed. There is, of course, another side to this willie Netanyahu,

would tell you that this was a necessary reform to curb the power of unelected judges who Two long had been standing in the way of the policy preferences of what does appear to be a growing wing majority of israelis in this country, the prime minister, addressing the nation last night on prime time calling for unity, saying that what he did was restored wearing democracy, not setting it back. In turn, where we go from here. You saw very extreme. Protests continuing overnight all over the country, major highways blocks police using water cannon against demonstrators. Today, the dock others are on strike. It is almost him possible to get non emergency doctors appointments today in Israel, because the doctors union is on strike in protest at this bill going through and willie, we are kind entering uncharted constitutional water is here. The israeli bar association has this morning filed.

mission in front of the supreme court asking judges to strike down this law to weaken the supreme court. Now judges do so we really dont know what comes acts, neither constitutional scholars, nor Netanyahu, nor the protesters on the streets can tell you what happens after that. One of the big questions. Here is what impact this is having on an institution that is supposed to be above politics and that The israeli military, thousands of israeli military reservists have said they will showing up for duty because of this, and is that is having an especially severe impact on the air, for where many of the most experienced pilots are reservists rather active duty. Will it storm every moment in israeli history and ruthless people watching this may one why people are so upset in the streets of why this is such an extraordinary moment in history, and can you plain the system a little bit, which is here. We have

chambers of congress. Here we have a written constitution, you don't really that in Israel. So the supreme court was in fact the check on the I'm minister was in fact a check on the majority in that country and with this new legislation that goes away, that's exactly right. So, in terms of the separation of powers, you basic in Israel have the executive and the legislative, essential, A few strike the executive is the governments. The government has majority. In the israeli parliament, the canasta which, as you said, only has one chamber so if you a sixty one seat majority in parliament, which netanyahu does there is pretty much nothing inside of the legislature that concern few from moving ahead with laws that you want, which leaves basically only the supreme court as a czech. Now, the law that went through yesterday means that the supreme court can no longer rule government actions, unreasonable Netanyahu would say

unreasonable is an overly vague standard, but I'll give you one example of how it's been used in the last year. The judges said it unreasonable when Netanyahu tried to a man with multiple convictions for tax fraud, too a senior cabinet position the going forward, it seems like moves like that by the government, will be able to happen because supreme court. No longer has that standard of unreasonableness to work on. It is unclear what happens with the rest of Netanyahu's proposed judicial overhaul. One of the other third rate elements is he is proposing to give government more control over the? Can which actually appoints judges to the supreme court. Willing mrs, were half sanchez live from TEL Aviv wrathful we be in with you throughout the week. Thanks so much appreciate, obviously, sisters front page news on newspapers acrostic Three, this more in the new york times the wall street journal habit on the front page kind of it.

stored in every moment really and in israeli histories, and now it's huge and the fact that this was definitely something the by administration, and many governments that are allied with Israel did not want to move away from a secular democracy and towards a religious autocracy and present. Ireland has been careful not to link our aid to Israel to their actions by does make you wonder if the three point a billion or so that were giving to Israel this year for four, exactly if perhaps that needs to be leverage on strong support of democracy with the country, and you also wonder why looking at these pictures these scenes and how the israeli government and the israeli people got to the point, when they are this morning. Looking at the potential. This is us in this country. I mean the similarities between donald trump and be

Netanyahu and the fact that both men seemed to think if they are larger than the country that everything is about them rather than their country is the white house put out a measure, Criticism of Israel and of this vote yesterday will be back to this in just a bed and still ahead on morning, Joe republican senator mitt romney calling on report can donors to endorse the candidate with the best odds of beating donald trump free from these new bed in the wall street journal explaining how expects to pull that off, plus how speaker Kevin Mccarthy ways, on the republican led investigations into the biden, families, business dealings, raising the possibility of an impeachment inquiry, those remarks. Also ahead, democrats on the senate, armed services committee, pressing minority leader mitch, Mcconnell to end republicans me tub reveals blockade on military promotions. Yes, that still going one of the Democrats, SEN, Tammy duckworth will be, our guest they're watching morning, Joe I'll, be right back.

Our national parks and forests are home to some of the most picturesque views on the globe, but sometimes the most beautiful places hide the darkest see rights. I'm Delia GM brought in my show park, predators! That's what I'm here to warn you about join me every time day all summer long as we dive into cases that continue to heart. The histories of these beautiful destinations, listen to park, predators. Now, wherever you listen to pod casts crammed. I know from the years I spent on

pain, buses and foreign capitals and in the oval office that there is always more to his story under the surface. I miami they see. Show we bring you inside all that breaking down the truth about things that matter and visiting, Some of the most fascinating people in the news today join me for inside with jen psaki every sunday at noon. Eastern on MSNBC plus catch new original peacock exclusive episodes of inside with jen psaki every thursday. To be of allied picture on a tuesday morning of the united states, capitalist six, thirty, four, a m- how speaker Kevin Mccord he is raising the possibility of an impeachment inquiry against president Biden. He made the remarks during an interview fox news last night, while Wang in on the report What can lead investigations into the biden, families, business dealings when pressed, buying was running for office. He told the american public that he's never talked about business. He said here

family has never received a dollar from china, which we now prove is not true. We ve only followed where the information has taken us, but handedness innocently rising to the level of impeachment inquiry, which provides congress. The strong power to get the rest of the knowledge and information needed, because this president has also use something we have not seen since richard Nixon use the weapons zation of government to benefit his My end deny congress the ability to have the oversight. I believe we will fall. All this all the way to the end, and this is going to rise to an impeachment inquiry. The way the constitution tells us to do this, and we have to get the answers to these questions. The way how spokesmen for oversight in investigations in sand later responded. Writing quote instead of focusing on

real issues. Americans want us to address like continuing to lower inflation or create jobs. This is what the white house geo p caesar. The house geo p wants to prioritize their eagerness to go after the president, regardless of the truth is seemingly bottomless. Donegal. Amir strikes listing to speaker Mccarthy there that other than that one phone call private phone call. On january six, twenty twenty one. We have not heard that level of outrage that depth of critics them from Kevin Mccarthy about donald trump attempt they do. coup against the united states government around the twenty twenty election classified information about nuclear secrets and war plan. back to mar a lago he's held that for President Biden and his son. Yeah. Let's fact check it right at the top. They haven't proven there was any wrong doing here, despite what you said last night in the house, european kicking up with support

after whistleblower alleging wrong doing but have yet to provide any concrete evidence ever find. A fugitive guy limit, the founding of the guy with the was How could one arm or are they just now? He is he's he's been missing, there's another guy who is, I believe, under indictment in federal indictment because of his wrongdoings in this matter. We, he looked a handicap members. The irs came up last week and did testify that they felt like this been a matter that should have been prosecuted further about hunter Biden. Under oath. They also acknowledged that, well, actually superiors disagree with us quite a bit it It's pretty common for it not to to and so you Jeanne robinson people, that I've talked. You say that the house is hell bent on some sort of impeachment. They think it turn general merk garland might be more likely candidate. Then president Biden, but certainly there not ruling out the president- and I just it is that which river is, if they do go there frame infringement inquiry for president Biden. I just ask you, like we're

We have now is. Are we the moment where impeachment, which was done be rare and an almost sacred is just being tossed relic. Another political ploy is every president going forward. Gonna faces is the peter inquiry Answer looks like yes, it looks like that. This is the default. In the end, this much this republican party in the house at least it seems to believe or want to make people think they believe, the impeachment of president trump were illegal, were totally political and so late, they believe they have a constituency that wants to see them strike back in the same way at at Joe Biden, pricing

if he is responding to their constituency- and so we may be in in that situation that you described, we may be in a situation where impeachment just becomes kind of a phase of a presidency. No less! there's a comic aspect to watch and Kevin Mccarthy speak like that is obviously political aspect, but this also it tragic aspect to it in the sand. That is how we watching democracy collapse in full public zoo. In plain view, with these people, like Kevin Mccarthy, getting on talking about impeaching Joe Biden, rather than don't look over there, don't look at donald trump and if any of them were asked, could you tell us how you feel about peter strength? They wouldn't know what I was talking about it or they wouldn't know the origin of that question, peter stranger, who we just

I mentioned earlier in the news, a sentence of four years for beating a police officer at the request. Basically, there in the capital of darnel j trump. They wouldn't know him, they don't care about him and they don't care about the country I think There also be confusion over what exactly will Biden be impeached over this scope, and his son shady business dealings? How is that connected to his presidency? What is that you can say it's untoward, you can say it really looks terrible, you can say it reeks of corruption, but if the present is not connected, how do you go forward with an impeachment and this ass, their alleging that the irs didn, hard enough at the present. Son had just doesn't seemed to rise to the level when of how many

when per centres get away with so much every year from the irs. It only furthers the argument. We need more agents and we should actually get taxes from people should be paying taxes so to remind our viewers us for irish ages. The testified last week for the oversight committee raised concerns to the trump justice department entire doing make much of them at all and, as we have said many times in the show hunter Biden committed, a crime show the but its conviction if he's guilty, and but they have not proven as John points out a connection yet to president Biden himself coming. We'll get an update on the fighting in ukraine and with the war. Now in its seventeenth month, a newport is examining the events that led to Russia's invasion be joined by the author next morning? Jump

our national parks and forests are home to some of the most picturesque views on the globe, but sometimes the most beautiful places hide the darkest seat. It's I'm Delia GM brought in in my show park, predators! That's what I'm here to warn you about. Join me. Every two, they all summer long as we dive into cases that continue to heart. The histories of these beautiful destinations, listen to park predators. Now, wherever you listen to pod, casts. everyone on Tom yarmouth from top story on NBC news now, every night top story is your news. Playlist we take you to the front. the story. Words actually happening with envy jordan was on the ground from all over the world, we cover what you need to know,

bring your news me to life and now Tom stories available as a podcast, so you can listen anytime and anywhere subscribed now for new episodes. Every week. in officials are reporting its forces were able to shoot down several days. Large, into cave overnight by russia. Does drone attacks come less the day after russia accused ukraine of sending grounds in moscow and promised aviation, russia also struck ukrainian port and the danube river near romania, destroying a grain anger in the process, It's now hear the studio macao cigar. He is a russian journalist who fled the country rather than risk imprisonment. Moscow, clamp down on independent media within its borders, he's out with a new book title war and punishment, Putin's the landscape and the path to russia's invasion of ukraine, It's great to have you with us glad you're out safely in here tying to arise me, so you can

trace the history of this invasion, which for some people they might think it goes back to twenty fourteen or pick your day. You say, You have to go back related. Ninety, ninety six, to begin the story. There I go back to whom I would say the three, centuries ago, while back because this this war, put? It is trying to justify this war because of their recent history and russia is poisoned with with historical myths and I think that we need I my mission was to debunk hold those historical myths. By russian propaganda, because most of historians, unfortunately, were propagandists for for all those years, and Surely you stories in the west sometimes followed that imperialist

historical narrative. So we need to to start writing some truthful. narrative, not imperialist people's he's to refresh. So what is the big miss at the centre of this invasion? Russian and ukrainian are the same people ukrainian, like, which is not the real language, but as as put it, believes it. It's like wrong. Russian another ridiculous myth that that put in keeps on repeating is that Ukraine was invented by lenin, and it's really funny, but as yet, but He thinks that there was no ukraine before bolshevik revolution of nineteen. Seventeen, and there are different myths and they are really deeply rooted in in today, the legal situation that rely ill, a lot of speculations, for example in russia, that there is the concept of ukrainian betrayal, wooed him back to

the legendary figure in ukraine. Of history VON Mazeppa and there continuing story that that ukrainians were betraying russians from so so many years, and believes that vladimir putin so years ago, four years ago, if you ass, someone knowledgeable as you are within russia about russian politics. If and asked them who does Putin talk too, who is close to put new, might have collapsed. Live off a couple of other people who knows, but today the question is how isolated its vladimir Putin, who does talk to me. How has this isolation affected his conduct of the war in ukraine? That's about the question and he has become very isolated since caught it and probably the the closest person.

It means that the only russian oligarch whose aim is you recover, choke he's he's all the old time fan and they need to spend together that blue and lockdown twenty twenty two twenty, It's important that coupled chicks father was Well known soviet historian academician, and he was Specializing on the history of crimea and sebastopol, so most of foot and prejudice and historical stereotypes are coming from the father of his closest friends, closest friend and yet couple couple of chuck is probably the The person who literally owns the presidential agnes strange ok is important progress in attempted to make a right

and putin, but nothing really happened to him in the aftermath I speculated earlier off camera. Is he dead? You said that you know he seems to probably be alive still, which it's amazing, that he still lives, how weakened his putin by that incident and the war at a point. Given the offensive given all the weapon, that have come to the ukrainians in recent months from thou eyes? Are ukrainians in the best position? Is this their best shot to actually have as much of a woman possible and get to a reasonable space to negotiate it's tricky. Yes, he is yes within the russian elite, it was exposed that the emperor is naked. He used to be considered as a guarantor of stability, and now it's adversity not control his inner circle, but at the same time,

Is he losing the war? I think I know that that he's pretty much confident about that. He thinks that the I'm is on his side and he should wait for that. The presidential elections that that's, obviously he strategy, she wants to to appeal to Open conservatives probably give heard that yesterday he signed the just law, that's bad, as any gender changes in russia and like he outlawed all transgender people, and that's not there. The kind of foot issue that russian people are worried about. He tries to to speak to americans minutes and that that's obviously the idea that that came up for for american consumption, not for russians and heat he's extent, king Donald trump to be back in the white house and according to his to put his calculations?

next year. All international sport for ukraine should stop because of donald trump gino vincent as a questionable energy? kyle eating last apparently putin bomb the green warehouse brahma danube ukrainian gray. Moorhouse has pulled out of the deal that allowed ukrainian grain to to pass. The black sea to reach markets is. Is this deliberate move to try to cross? famine to create a shortage of grain and in the world, and and perhaps in that way, destabilize. The the coalition of countries that are resisting this invasion Yes, actually that has been put in strategy for for many years. He is creating the alice? And that's that's his idea and at the same time

I have some doubts about the word coalition, because what What what we see in reality Russian oil and gas are being exported from russia and actually even european western countries are buying russian oil and gas via the four parties- turkey arab countries. So it's too still possible- and russia is not that isolated so so just put in east is trying to split the west, and tougher to find some partners he can deal with. So he he's not happy. were the green deal and that he's trying to create cows, great market as well so metallic Is it your sense of someone who understands Putin so well that he has been stunned over the last year and a half about the resistance put up by ukraine about the room of the west to the side of ukraine? In other words, he thought

it was a role and to keep and raise the russian flag very quickly and have an outrage through the streets of the city, has he been so eyes by that, and if so, how that changed his strategy. You said something a lot of people believed to be true, which is that he's going wait until next year's presidential election if he gets donald trump and that's a good thing for him. He thinks so that's nice about a year and a half almost so. How does this and for a man who the only claim a victory he wants is to take that land and make it a part of russia again in one interesting thing about. Limited puddings that he's not a strategic player, does it have a strategy, and he has never had any kind of strategy. So doesn't have a plan b for four years. Clean and invasion. She was really confident that the ukrainians would greet russian soldiers with flowers. Was it didn't happen she have plan b. He has to wait. He's he's not just Where he's a surfer, he

he's reacting to anything what's happening and he always waves. War disengaged for the circumstances took to change. So he always things that He's got the time to wait always been very lucky with that, because the west, nurse are changing the coming and going and she menacing kremlin. I believe this is the first time when he might be wrong because actual internally domestically. The time is not on his side and its obvious that russian elites are shaken by this war. So probably she's I want to be lucky this time, Vladimir Putin as a surfer, there's an image that wasn't a bear yeah. The book is more in punishment, putin, Zelensky and the path to russia's invasion of ukraine, russian journalists, because a car, thank you. Much of vacations on the book nice to see the battle over.

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