Russia creeps closer to NATO territory, bombing a military facility located just fifteen miles from the pole. Border. an american journalist. Now among those killed in Ukraine, a call was injured and they attack speaks out in a harrowing interview from his hospital bed, explaining exactly what happened and people around the world have been wondering what happened to the pregnant woman and her unborn child, who were rushed out of that bombed maternity, ward and marry a pole last week morning. There is a heartbreaking update, plus report Russia has already used chemical weapons. What are you crazy? An official is saying about a phosphorus bombs deployed in the eastern part of the country. Sources also tell em busy NEWS that Moscow has reached out to China for military equipment and other resources. Ukraine,

as president, in an incredible incredible. Public show of unity, visited wounded soldiers in the hospital yesterday awarding metals and taking so face, and another round of peace talks under way right now, in hopes of ending this crisis? Now entering day, nineteen good morning and welcome to morning Joe, it is Monday March fourteen. Let's dive right in Russia escalated its offensive in western Ukraine over the weekend, hitting a melody. I base fifteen miles away from the border with NATO member Poland raising further concerns. The alliance could be drawn into the conflict ukrainian official say at least thirty five people were killed, one hundred and thirty four injured when more than thirty russian missiles power. the military facility. Yesterday, the base had long been used as a hop for western military troops, including America,

forces to train ukrainian soldiers. They attack came a day after Moscow warned it would try to destroy foreign shipments of weapons to you could Calling them quote legitimate targets Washington condemned the attacks. Here's! What now security. Advisor Jake Sullivan to say, No surprise that the Russians are trying to expand the number of targets in this war because their frustrated by their land, the ability to take some of the major cities by the fact that they are well behind the objectives, set for themselves and by the incredibly stiff and brave resistance that the people Ukraine, the military of Ukraine and ordinary citizens of Ukraine, or putting up.

Ukrainian police are now accusing Russia of using chemical attacks in its invasion. According to a deputy chief and the country's national police force, russian troops recently bombed the small city of Papa's. Now in eastern Ukraine, with what are known as phosphate munitions, those of course, can cause severe burns to human skin and poisoning, if inhaled last week, Russia accused Ukraine of planning a false flag, cannot go on tat, which you s, officials mourned could be a prelude to the Kremlin using those weapons itself. Here's more from you S, national security adviser, Jake, Sullivan on meat, the press. The United States, in coordination with our allies and partners, is prepared, to impose such severe consequences and we have come, indicated that directly to the Russians. We have consulted with our allies and partners about it and we are prepared for that eventuality.

Part of the reason, chalk that were so concerned that this may happen is when Russia starts accusing other countries a potentially doing something. It's tell that they may be on the cusp of doing it themselves. Thieves. government has reason to believe Russia requested military and economic aid from China. In the weeks the war on Ukraine began. Three Wes officials familiar with a matter, declined to say what kind of equipment was. Crested, nor would they collaborate on whether China had agreed to the request. That's a big issue. Once more from national security adviser, Jake Sullivan, we, made it clear to not just Beijing, but every country in the world dead if they think that they can base. we bail rush out, they can

Russia work around to the sanctions that we have imposed. They should have another thing come and because we will ensure that neither China nor anyone else can compensate Russia for these losses in terms of specific means of doing that again. I'm not gonna lay all of that out in public, but we will commute. he'd that privately to China, as we have already done and will continue to do. Eleven will meet with China senior diplomat later today in Rome. Let's bring in U S special correspondent for BBC News cattle K, former NATO Supreme Allied Commander, forced our Navy, Admiral James to breed us. He is cheap international security and diplomacy outlets for NBC News and MSNBC, and editor of the New Yorker David Redneck Ross routers. Where are we going you too weak for this war? Russians are still grinding away, but all hope they had of blitzkrieg simply sweeping across and tie

blink Zalewski, putting a new government, that's all gone and remember that column that we saw for such a long time. It's kind of dispersed Joe and a lot of that is artillery that are position around the city. So ominously- and this is not good news where Vladimir Putin is Headed- I think it's gonna, be the Syria strategy simply to start pounding the way at these cities. I think falsely believes that Cities can be the centre of gravity in this campaign. They are not there just visit. we'll structures. The centre of gravity in this campaign are the

arts, in the Spirit of the ukrainian people led by president, so Linsky he's not gonna win that over by knocking down cities in committing more crimes, quite the opposite. So on the western side and the conflict Joe, I think we're doing a good job, we're getting a lot of weapons in the hands of these ukrainians. That's why prudent slowed and frustrated in militarily that thing that's dangling out. There is the idea of getting jets fighters to the Ukrainians. I think that still being worked quietly will see everything else the Ukrainians have asked for to fight this war we have given them. So that's a quick snapshot. Watch for prudently Dark pounding at these cities

I am wondering if, if you vine, we're we're moving into a new phase with the West President Biden, western leaders have responded. Well do the first phase. We are now moving into a second phase where the use of chemical weapons may be deployed. May have already been deployed in eastern Ukraine, and these continuing attacks on civilians may require a stronger response from from NATO from civilized world. I'm wondering what is the next move we put together as Ambassador James Jeffrey suggested, perhaps a vote in the General Assembly of the United Nations and put together peacekeeping forces in western Ukraine. I think

everything ought to be on the table. So I was on meet the press yesterday, alongside Jake Sullivan, who is beaming in of course, as he should from the White House, but clearly what the administration was signaling and clearly what Jake Sullivan was signaling correctly. So was not going to telegraph for punches, we're not going to lay out exactly what's gonna happen, but I sense much more de everything. Is increasingly on the table and that's thing from the jets from Poland that we just talked about to the kind of diplomatic initiative that my good friend Jeffreys his work and on to this idea of community. today in ITALY, in Rome, Jake Sullivan, will be talking to the Chinese saying you should not get

the bed with Russia and send them weapons lot moving right now in the administration, I think, is doing a good job, pudding, diplomatic, military, economic together to put pressure. I think it's Goines very badly for Putin, overall A lot of things moving in and perhaps some chuck signs some trial balloon from China about being possible. Mediator will talk about that in a little bit but Mika. There are many people who have been critical of Joe Biden over the past week,

being while being aggressive, also being very cautious talking about what he would not do. What strategy would not employ? He did that at a time at the beginning of the crisis, when only one in four Americans wanted involvement in this crisis and when european are european, allies were being hesitant to move. Much has changed over the past three weeks now, three and four american support actually even a no fly zone. Of course we ve seen the Europe provide is most robust response to a war crisis at any time since world war. Two I expect we are going to see a dramatic ships and White House strategy where their night, secondly, the Russians, what they are and what they are not going to do moving forward, things are going to get much more difficult and Vladimir Putin, but, as you have pointed out, toward the president's really been transparent, explaining the contours, NATO and all the different players involved, and he can bring Americans along its decisions and

Relenting actualities call for different decisions joining us now from Keys NBC News. She foreign correspondent, Richard Angle, who wow you're backdrop alone explains the onslaught. The russian onslaught is definitely in Kiev, Richard Yes, it is getting closer to the centre of key for the last several days. The russian assaults have been aging in ever closer to the centre of the city, and this strike an apartment, building overnight and important building is still be Cleared. Aid is still being evacuated. People are going back into time, collect whatever they can. This is a comment, the civilian area, it is surrounded by civilian areas. There are no military targets here, at least one person was killed. We saw the body can take it away, followed by distraught family members just a short while ago, and going back to what

Most iridium was saying this is exactly the kind of strategy that Russia is now pursuing, bringing its decision give capability. Closer and closer to the heart. civilian populated centres. We are now just about four miles from the Maidan Square, which is the Times square. If you will the upkeep and this building was get a deal was targeted around five o clock in the morning local time most people were asleep luckily, and it's hard to say that there was anything lucky about this attack, but fortunately, many of the people had already left about half the building was occupied at the time, so there were injuries and at least one death, but this is not the only place in Kiev that is now under attack, we're in the northern side of the city and then of course, this weekend there was that terrible in current, in which two journalists were shot, one of them

well, no, not for our bread, Renault, a well known filmmaker, who lost his life and not attack? That was on another northern district on the outskirts of Keith. So I urge you to give us some perspective is if you will on the battle of cave. Of course, there are areas that have been attacked and torn torn to pieces. I'm I'm curious generally percentage of the city is still on. hard to unmarked by by russian Artillery Ninety five percent or higher, as is untouched, there has been very little damage in the centre of heat, and that's why this strike is is is important because we could be at a at it at a turning point in this conflict and President Linsky said we are now entering a new, much more deadly phase, and this seems to be the

ace of that deadly phase, where you have apartment buildings that are attacked in the dark of night for no apparent reason, and if you see behind me, this is one of the main entrances to the building and that's where direct strike building and since it hit the main staircase leading to all the other apartments. It made the evacuation much more dangerous, much more difficult. So this is the phase that we are in right now, where million areas are being targeted, apparently at will often in complex, often complex, that I've covered there civilian casualties, but often times its described as an accident intelligence collateral damage to use that awful expression. There was no accident about this. This was a big building it for no a pair of reason other than to kill Seville And frightening the population,

yeah? And unfortunately, as you say there, it's likely a sign of things to come for all of cave. The past Muslim, prologue embassies. Richard angle, thank you so much for your warning Please stay still safe, David or ethnic. They wanted to ask you about. Putin is so many Many psychiatry lists have been trying to get into this guy's a mocking end and then been talking about the miser, but the worst thing about Dick Cheney. This wasn't the Dick Cheney before the heart attack their going. This wasn't the Putin before covert he's changed radically since covet I've been reading, Doktor Brzezinski writings from behind the cold war, to try to give a little insight- and I must say everything Doktor Brzezinski wrote about brash now and the Soviets in nineteen. Eighty three overlay. It perfectly on Vladimir Putin in twenty twenty two that he is

a leader and it is a country, it is fuelled by resentment by the drastic cuts sit need for expansionism and insecurity becomes along with making new enemies because of your expansionism? what what? What are you? What are your thoughts. I don't know about Brezhnev on about the country. I think I don't want to focus more on in himself. Nobody is waiting for a moral awakening from Vladimir bloody marriage. Hoddan their deluded delusion because, if you want to see what the moral arc of Vladimir Putin S take a look at a photograph were photographs or footage from Grozny, in ninety ninety nine, two thousand, it looks like dress, don't take it. Look at the city of a leper after the who Scott finished with it into

looks like dressed in so what Anger was telling us this. This is an appetizer. This is just to the Building he was standing in front of is just a foreigner, and here, of course, is not the only sitting in Ukraine in city after city in Ukraine and other parts of the south and in the east, it's not just one building or five buildings. Your three percent is eating. Much more total than that The damage has been done. The fear that's been struck into new grenades is all toward one goal: to bring a nation of forty million people to its knees to Robert of its independence, to Robert of its sovereignty and too under the russian way. what this is all about and an egg Putin cannot be dealt with. We can't psychoanalyze him. We have to hope that the pressure that being put on him, which is immense and economically politically

pressures within him it on him within the country he in the security. Operands is still or to exert an influence it makes him decide either. This is a horrible catastrophe has to get out of it or he's overthrown. That's it. No. What David? Let me put your little lady arrogance. You do know about Russia. You know as much about Russia is anybody. You know about russian history and I guess what I'm trying to say to our viewers is: what are we gonna? Wait where people are acting as if let him your Putin is a one off when, in fact, Stalin. The man that he admired killed three to four million Ukrainians back and then This is absolutely sure, has a dense transmit only history robot Russia has a long history of behaving this way. This is how Russians acts that, when people are looking it prudent as a one off and saying we need to understand, what's going on in this man's, my all I'm saying is you can look

act through through russian history, and There are many people that have closely studied the Soviet Union in Russia. That say this has been done. On four three hundred years say, though. At the same time, there is also Mikhail Gorbachev, which behaves in quite a different way. Lou withdrew from Afghanistan who try to create a society that was had greater liberties, greater opportunities for its people Part of the tragic picture here, is the bore which that kind of politics is viewed by somebody like Putin and his cronies, and the KGB and beyond, as deluded and a weak and somehow disasters of a country so you're right. There are examples in the past. Of of of totalitarianism. Through an autocracy for centuries in Russia, but I dont think S Beijing's decade for ever for ever and ever for Russia

The tragedy is that Putin himself has no politics surrounding him that we yet can. discern and emphasis on what we can discern There are so few people around him. They give him contrary opinion who quickly no pressure on him and he acting in a solemn jerry, where you saw that in his meeting with the Security council. when the head of foreign intelligence got up and try to just greed, just a little bit, he was humiliated. And we have to hope that people around him start doing not just put pressure on him. But act more forceful What is a tragedy because of where Gorbachev, try to take the Soviet Union, make it and then, of course, later Russia, but yeah

fortunately, it's been garbage offers been the one off in in this experience with Russia lately, but how to close an iron curtain caddy k- maybe you can take it to the admiral, but as Russia gets closer and closer to the line on every level, whether it be chemical weapons are going after civilians or creeping closer to NATO territory bombing a military base. That's fifteen miles from Poland. When you hear world leaders, U S, President Biden saying we will protect every inch of nature territory, they appear to be pushing the line on every all that they can even potentially go to China for support. There are so many issues happening. At the same time, and, at the same time also make. Of course we have these talks. Both sides, the Ukrainians and the russian saying that they can see that

tools of some kind of negotiated settlement, the question is whether this is The faintest bill burns? The direction CIA seem to be saying in Congress last week. He thinks this is just strategic. These talks and I wonder what is to read it bad most Rita's, whether you think that a using anything from the russian side, and we have, of course, that we can see a little bit more positive language from the Russians and from the Ukrainians about the prospect of some kind of potential that negotiation. Do you think This is sincere on Russia, This part or, or is this the faint Moscow is trying to to win time in order to carry on its campaign in in ukrainian cities. I'm gonna go with Ambassador bill burns, really good friend, who was arm faster in Moscow. He studies is he's deepen duties, the head of the CIA. He see

all the high end intelligence. If he says it's a faint, I'm omitted go with that and secondly, I think that without question proof is still seized with the idea of going forward here. The only countervailing pressure that I see of cigarettes, chickens in addition to, of course, the ukrainian Resistance, which is the heart of everything, the centre of gravity, but the other Are these economic sanctions, particularly coupled with our Spencer. This is war is hell. It's also very expensive and burning billions and billions of dollars and or roubles that could really doesn't have access to any more. So if there is a press for some kind of negotiation, I think it's gonna come ultimately out of the ECB, make side, coupled with this heroic, resist from the Ukrainians final thought. We ve talked a lot military, diplomatic, economic. Let me tell you what

I think maybe the most important weapon. We have it's the truth. It's a kind of videos, your showing its that here stopping photograph of the prey woman, who now we know, has died that The proof is ready, stir right here with these devices by courageous Ukrainians broadcast by networks like this in all the other networks ultimate, over time is what stiffens their resistance in Ukraine. The old The coalition against Vladimir Putin keeps China added this. We need bombard Moscow with the truth, the degree to which we do. That may be the degree to which we succeed. I want to ask you admiral. Also you talk about the more money is limitation would seem to me. Time would also be a limitation for Vladimir Putin and his russian troops. We forget how long they were just sitting there

call freezing on the border, not moving. I know you understand why what a nightmare that is, for the military, for four readiness, and now they ve gone into a war. They thought they were going to where they thought they're going to March into cave and take over the rest of the country. It's gone terribly! Well how long food and have with these forces to continue mired down in this sort of battle One last point, tier excellent lay down would be Meyer down, Zig gets warmer and that, whether turns into spraying harder and harder for those big heavy mechanized devices to be moving on the battlefield. So the answer to your question is he's, got days, he's weeks. He's got some number of months, but I see how he can sustain this. Both

the money and with the morale of his troops, your point, many of whom are conscripts reservists there. can over their shoulders. Thinking I want to get home. craniums, are looking over their shoulders saying I want to protect my family. I want to protect my city that may be the spirit of the Ukrainians, so I dont think Vladimir Putin has unlimited time Joe Now we do move also make it into the muddy seas and very soon, as it does get warmer Admiral James, separate us. Thank you very much once again, and still I had on morning chair why, while Beijing hasn't officially taking sides in the UK, Crisis China,

it is not exactly a neutral player, will go live to Beijing on the heels of the report that Russia, ass China for military aid plus the latest on the growing wave of ukrainian refugees and the warning from one mayor who says this city can no longer cope with the sheer number of people arriving also ahead. Foreign affairs committee. Member we Adam Kinsmen Herbal, join us to talk about what law makers are doing to help Ukraine. He also revealed his biggest regret during his time in Congress. The other day. I ask him also if you still supports a no fly zone, we'll be right with our own tenuous coverage of the russian invasion of Ukraine. I'll be right back these days, the news never stops the morning

headlines change by afternoon and by the end of the day, it's all totally different. So, let's get into it, what's happening right now what it means for you for an hour every day I get it. I know you can be hard to keep up. So let's get started together and go from their highly Jackson and we have a time goin on here's the deal, how we judge the whigs at five p m Easter egg. Willie guys Tier, reminding you to check out Sunday, sit down podcast on this week, episode I get together with Bob Odin Kirk to talk about his surprise, big break in breaking bad. The final seas, of his better call, Sol, spin off and a new memoir the documents his journey from Essen L, comedy writer to action star. You can hear our conversation now for four rate, wherever you download your podcast

twenty nine pass the hour alive? Look at the White House as our coverage continue as more than seven hundred and fifty people were arrested during protests across Russia yesterday According to a human rights group, it's been tracking arrests since the start of the invasion. Almost three weeks ago, it says nearly fifteen thousand protesters have been arrested since February twenty fourth, the demonstrations come despite the threat of lengthy prick sentences to earlier this month, the Kremlin passed a law against protein, staying and independent reporting on the war, with a punishment of up to fifteen years in prison? And meanwhile tens of thousands of Russians are fleeing to bring countries in response to Putin's invasion of Ukraine the time spoke to several Russians who have left their homes over the past,

Eighteen days, many have ended up in Istanbul, Turkey, relying on telegram, chats and support groups to find housing I'm says these are middle the Russians who are against the war and fear the recent Third tarrying measures put in place. They believe their way of life in Russia is no their possible. You know David who we're looking at the horrors that are unfolding daily for Ukrainians. It is also Russians who are Barbara going in and in the long term. I suspect if Ukraine survives is there will be remarkable Marshall Plan and, it will become a vibrant country. That's an example to the rest of the world and not for the Russians, entrepreneurs are fleeing, educators are fleeing journalists fleeing some of the dress and the brightest leaving that country. Why does Russia look like after this is over?

There is a real danger that this experience tends to hollow out a lot of the most vibrant parts of russian urban society. If you were to go today to the Armenia, capital of Yerevan, the georgian capital, Tbilisi or Istanbul, or any number of other places. You see Phil thousands of Russians, computer programmers, journalists, business people, were terrified that if they don't get out now, you're gonna be stuck in Russia they don't in Russia. The data recognise swimmer. What we find for the last two decades is similar cry of a semi free, Moscow or Saint Petersburg, the understanding was, we know we live in. An authoritarian site is no mistaking about that. We we're oppresses- is repressed. We know that there are all kinds of restrictions in disguise, terrible But on the other hand, there is certain intellectual life. There's a business like this. kind of

kind of liberty to take back with tolerable everybody knew the arrangement, is not lunch. Was such a Paris or anything like it, but now there's a chance at something infinitely more repressive, we're big brother is looking at you all the more carefully there still coming out of Moscow of people a blind piece of paper and getting arrested The you see this over and over again that it is. You know it. I just know volley, that's in jail, the the society is being put under them. of the authoritarian despot. If you well, I didn't interview with Steve Cock and who is a historian, the Soviet Union and the great biographer Stalin and not at all saying that this is what Russia is and always was, was and will be.

But he say that certain circumstances beginning with food, but also in Russia's geography and is historical reflexes a pudding Russia in its worst place that we ve seen in decades, and so people want to get out of this country. They cheered by the way future very well, then I am sure the capacity. I would during this also something like this exists in the russian military and what the morale of the russian military is going into: Ukraine, young boy being yell, that by older women in Ukraine, but also killing Ukrainians and killing Russians who live in Ukraine

we have all kinds of reports maker from the front lines of soldiers who had no idea why they were being sent to the border and once they found themselves in Ukraine and sometimes surrender to the tomb ukrainian soldiers prose staying there there their innocence in saying they were sorry that they were there. And we live in a world of cell phones and people are able to call home and his parents, mothers and fathers are able to call their their sons on the front lines as sooner or later, this tumbling into russian society more and more mothers and fathers finding about children, children, inside Ukraine and committing this act of war, arguably this act of genocide against the people to bring the ukrainian people to its knees. proud of this to bleed into russian society. Despite all the restrictions that too will change.

Picture, but it takes time David. I am. I right. That and few did with Steve caught care. A super interesting- and I thought one of them the instead he made about there's an inherent weakness in the russian story and in what Putin has been telling Russians and previous It is as well as that Russia is the good power, not a great power but the great power and, in the sense that aspiration to be equal to Europe. to America is always going to leave them wanting more because they are. They are a great power, but they don't have the economy of Europe. They don't have the economy of Europe and the United States at me much together and that drives them to make perhaps too overreach make mistakes as as Putin appeal, you have done in Ukraine. Right. How do I do? I think one of the things that Steve was saying- and I ve been interview- far more eloquently- that I good is it out a are bad at everything

their bedded educating their populations, thereby. At developing an economy. now you can argue with us, and I asked him the question. You look at what happened in China and authoritarian as soon as I had an example of economic development that extraordinary in recent decades in China, in the end, a thorough tearing regimes do not produce Abbe citizens and sooner or later there rebellions and what fears, mouths and saying this is all that there is a rule by which he put in fears. Most is approved, on the street and abroad. around him and how many times have we seen that in the authoritarian experience overtime

we have even seen it is in the czarist experience. So all the first was stabbed to justify his his political rivals version team in the Politburo overthrew Khrushchev and what fears is either this or that experience that Gaddafi, higher Mubarak had and all the rest, so again, these are not historical law, as the you know, in an iron Clyde way, but couldn't has not come through for his society. Putin talk about him, economical, he has not. Our I'd editor of the New Yorker David, rang again is always thank you. So much in you know make following up on what David in Caddy, we're saying again going back do what your father would right throughout the cold war and again its import, because

lines, not only what was going on forty years ago? It's it explains. What's going on right now, Your father wrote repeatedly that Russia was a one dimensional power that they had failed to develop economic capacity. They had failed to develop technology. They had failed to develop a political system that other countries wanted export it. They had failed culturally. They had failed in every dimension, so they're only power was the power to disrupt, not not the power to turn to expand, but the power to this. The existing global order. They would do that, and even that part, your father said, and nineteen eighty three was limited because Depended on military brute force, with the military and nuclear weapons, which also even limited that single dimension, so caddy is so right. Their insecurity and their expansionism have have always collide together

Cause them to make mistake for mistake after Mister history has repeatedly self here. While we ve been pulling all of his books off the shelves in reading and highlighting them will be bringing portions tee this week. It is quite stunning how much of this is parallel to the past coming, The gloves are off that's the message from the british government as it goes after russian arcs in London, and going live to China. The latest reports that Russia has called Beijing for military aid, plus the desperate push to rescue nearly two dozen newborns trapped in a basement and keys warning Joe, is coming back with more coverage. There have been changes in our cultural these past few years from energy and finance. The ways we socialized so what's in store for our future

I'm MSNBC. Crises join me for a special for part. Many series on my part, ass wise, is happening right now to experts about the changes were facing this week host of late night Seth Myers on the future of energy mix silver linings. The pandemic was this weird thrilling. Bree said as far as what the show was wise is happening. Phutra subscribe for free where we get your pockets She would Johnson, on my new, show we're trying to start conversations about what's happening in our world, not just news but ideas in sight and your questions and stories about how the headlines play out where you live. We want to help people connect and engage on challenging issues. Trust me we're better at this than we think we are whatever you believe you're welcome here, because it's not my job to tell you what you think. It's my job to think about what you tell me now tonight with Joshua Johnson streaming, weak knights of Eastern on anything. These now

Forty four pass the hour live. Look at why what a beautiful shod Washington these signs coming up similar headed into forty four a M Monday morning turned awake. Yeah. Well today, there is a lot of news to cover national security, adviser, Jake Sullivan, will travel to Rome to meet with his Chinese. Counter part for the high stakes discussions on the global impact of Russia's invasion of Ukraine. This comes as U S. Officials say Russia asked China for military assistance, a move America says would come at a half. Costs to Beijing joining us, from Beijing and is a new foreign correspondent, Janice Mackey Frere generous. What are you hearing from chinese officials?

The last time that China's top diplomat younger too met with Jake solid than it was in Alaska. Things did not go well. So there is the expectation that this could be a very frank meeting between the two sides, where a lot of people are looking at as a real fork in the? U S, China relationship right now, they're heading these talks with multiple reports the? U S has reason to believe that Russia has asked China for military assistance and equipment another details on the scope of this apparent. Request it is unclear what Russia would be looking for from China or why they would need weaponry three weeks into an invasion. Some russian analyse think that, if anything, maybe they would be looking for transport aircraft, but typically China is a client of Russia when it comes to arms, not the other way around. Officially, China's many foreign ministry spokesperson today called the report

quote malicious. This information and completely blew off now going into meeting. There are a lot of complexities. It is unclear whether the U S is going to warn. I know about the car some consequences of possibly bailing out Russia or this is a step toward origin. Beijing to use what leverage it has with Moscow in order to try to negotiate an end to the conflict orbit of both. Certainly, she, Jim paying Vladimir Putin have that deep relationship. They ve met dozens of times as leaders in recent years just last month. They had that huge manifesto where they were declaring friendship with no limits, but at this point from what we can tell a fish China is complying with sand So there does seem to be a recognition among the top leadership here aligning too closely with Russia does bring risks to China's economy.

A lot of ways. China, as a mediator, is not exactly a neutral partner. There seen as an important strategic partner of Russia. Just. Last week the foreign minister was declaring that therefrom. hi are rock solid by China. Does have leverage with Moscow and Moscow. Right now is looking for some assurances from China. Russia officials were saying publicly that their counting on ties with China in order to balance the economy, which is, of course, how it by sanctions So I wanted to ask your Janis: there was someone who wrote a not bad in the New York Times yesterday, who advises the chinese government who wrote I thought this was entering. He said it's not a bathing interest to rely solely on an anti western alliance with Moscow. Russia may possess a mighty military. It doesn't, but its economy is in a way term structural decline with a gdp not much larger than that of Spain. For all the time

complies with Moscow. It's worth remembering. China's economic interests with Russia are dwarf, by those shares with the west, I'm just curious Jackie. Are you starting to pick up in any new media Janice, I'm sorry Janis, I'm I'm I'm wondering if you're starting to pick up any gestures in the media any hence in the media. That part ups Being Russia. Out of this would be best interest of China. Economic relations the west, If you look at chinese state media, you know what idly consumed on social media there are pushing russian propaganda there, in some chinese officials that have been trying to push anti? U S, conspiracy theories about the about the via labs and what not, but at the higher

levels and among people seen as advisers to the government. There is more sobriety if you call it the opt out. You're talking about was written by one point out. He has a think tank here he's an adviser to the government. I talked to him airily or today, and- and he was saying that if China get the? U S to look at them from China's perspective in that China doesn't want to endorse the U S or the west, but also I want to derail its own economy has train deals with Ukraine. It has huge trade deals with the EU and also with the U S, so it's not in the transaction away that China does business. It's not going to sacrifice that for relationship with Russia, and I think it's why, until now, even with all of the pushing of russian propaganda on social media here, it's why officially, we ve seen only rhetorical support for Russia and not any attempt by Beijing to disrupt their own economy,

It is obviously so important. You are right. It does seem a more rhetorical right now I Janis is always thank you so much. Certainly here area they may be exists as Janis Mackey. Prayer in Beijing is always thank you so much, but of course, the problem we're talking about the relationship between Russia and China and how this This all ends up, and if it goes in a peaceful direction, it will involve Russia, China and the West all being to do things several things at the same time we're going to continue this conversation after quick break with the president of the council on Foreign relations, Richard House, I'll, be right back.

It's just a few minutes before the top of the hour alive. Look at the capital, as our coverage continuous here on morning, Joe joining us now, the president of the council on Foreign relations, Richard Hoss, and the host of way too early Whitehouse bureau. Chief that bullet Jonathan Le Maire and the BBC's Quetta K is still with us as well. Here now is the bad and the New York Times that Joe mentioned last blocked, doktor long way. Yo is head of evasion, think tank and adviser to the chinese government and a rights, this peace for the New York Times and title it's time to offer Russia and off ramp, and China can help with that. This is fascinating. We are now in an escalators spiral. He writes mounting on pressure mounting pressure on Mr Putin will likely make the situation more,

interests, as Russia's leader feels pushed to take increasingly extreme measures, such as what we ve seen in the past. Few days with the russian armies, siege, tactics and attacks on civilian areas and so unpalatable, as some on the west may find the idea it's time to offer the russian leader and off ramp China's help It is not in Beijing's interests to rely solely on an anti western alliance with Moscow. Russia may possess a mighty military, but its economy is it long term structural decline with a gdp not much larger than that of Spain, for all that of its ties with Moscow? It is worth remembering that China's economic interests with Russia are dwarfed by the it shares with the west. Beijing's goal would be to find a solution that gives Mr Putin's sufficient security assurances that can be presented as

when to his domestic audience, while protecting Ukraine's core sovereignty and toes open door policy securing Multi lateral resolution to the crisis in Ukraine will be a tough and risk a challenge, but there is no country place to do so, then so Richard fascinating. This are bad from someone who advises the chinese government. I suspect it didn't happen by accident and end we we spoke in you. You say there are other indications that perhaps Beijing may be moving more too The position of making a middle ground and trying to help Russia and Ukraine and the West out of this of war are the pieces that are circulating out outcome additions and China particularly have a bit of state. Acting. I also

that there I don't think China's there. I think they like the idea that the United States finds itself strategically much more focused on on Russia in Europe, so instead of a pivotal Asia were now seeing a pivot back to two year, but China can't be happy with this crisis, Joe. is bad, for their economy is bad for them as they try to get out of covert, and I think it would shake Sullivan. The national security Visor meeting is chinese counterpart today, It's a real moment to basically signal the Chinese and say if you provide explicit military or economic help to Putin, This will not just put you in harm's way in terms of sanctions and growing technology controls. But this way fundamentally change? The? U S, chinese relationship, going forward this at least the possibility now that the United States and China could find some kind of a new equilibrium. If China essentially goes all in on Putin, then I

the message has to be to try to discourage that that that will forever, at least for four years, if not decades, change the trajectory of our life. I don't know if that's gonna be enough to influence what they do, but here the hand they may like. The idea of being seen as peacemaker would be a real men for chinese soft power and so forth, but they're not there. Yet right now they ve gone up to now there they ve been close to Putin. The real question is: can we shoehorn them away somewhat from that and certainly Richard. I think that we have seen that the timing of this leak about China, Moscow asking Beijing for help coincidence, just ahead of Jake Solve, is meeting with his counterpart in Rome to Chinese coming round. To so, can we see this really is an essential point, perhaps between relations, the relationship between Beijing and washed and were China's gonna need to make a decision at some point? Basically team are you on, but without chinese support. There is a sense that, through its effect

she's even asking for perhaps for Things are going for that. Well for Russia, what sort of military what sort of money whether she already needs reinforcements from their neighbour just a few weeks? If we send it not just Russia right, they also go rode back on the idea of getting conscripts of volunteers from other countries, and we have proven over the weekend saying. Oh actually, it might not be such a bad idea if people want to come and fight from Syria, for example more from other countries that a friendly from us having rejected that I did before he wants them now. The move with China is really interesting, and I thought, as Joe is suggesting the fact that this option was published in the new times at all was very interesting as well, because it wouldn't have been published without some kind of tacit. I imagine approval from the chinese government and there's the chinese government effectively putting out a signal in the New York Times. We are open to being the kind of play you would like us to be in that. Actually, our strategic interest is much more with Europe and America than it is

Ukraine, Russia, and they also don't like what their seeing in terms of this driving the: U S and Europe closer together right. They were quite happy with the: U S and european drifting further apart. So from China's point of view, there is a lot to be gained from getting this out of the way getting this ended. I suspect the way the Putin would like this to an China's involvement being more weaponry. That's a bigger It's interesting that fruit and put it out there why, with the Russians, put it out that assumption was the Russians, wouldn't have put it out there unless the Chinese had already agreed to supply than weaponry, but this option is making a very strong case for why it's not in China's interest to be in with Russia at this point, be helping the Russians in their war in Ukraine and again, Richard is Caddy, said this in this bad would not have appeared in the New York Times by someone who advises the chinese government without

support from from some elements of the governing you look at this line. Again, it is brutal. Russia's economy is a long term structural decline with a gdp hot much larger than that of Spain. And talk about also China. Of course, I guess it's economy is growing at four percent. Five percent, the lasting it what's. The last thing it needs is from the west after hitting worked so hard to divide the EU from the United States Let me give you one. Other analysis of the show is which is slightly different: the fact that there was to peace. You talked about in the New York Times as well as another piece I get the census. There may be a little bit of a debate going on in China and even some veiled criticism of sheep. Thing for sure thing has priority of this year is to get a third term reprove by the Party Congress, this fall and what

happening is he's having trouble getting China out of covert because of their lockdown strategy. Their vaccine isn't working against I'm across the economy, as you say, is not growing gangbusters, and now this close association with putin- and I what you're beginning to to see people some people, possibly on trying to read the tea, leaves here using this as a way, almost an indirect criticism of the chinese leadership for essentially bedding too much on the russian horse. For assuming that Putin was going to win easily. This was gonna, be a strategic winch for him. add to the United States in the west. It's turning out, shall we say rather differently. So I actually think what you're seeing in China is a little bit of a debate which is not something we we often seether, rigid say with where the top of the hour he's gonna give us an update on what's going on

across the negotiators day. Nineteen of the russian invasion of Ukraine and the attacks are inching closer to NATO territory. The prime minister of Poland said just a moment ago that yesterday's attack on a military facility near the polish border was aimed at creating panic. Civilians were also targeted again overnight, as Russia does, whatever it takes to capture Ukraine's capital. The video that's just coming in a deadly attack on an apartment, building just a few miles away from the centre of Keith and a heartbreaking update to this image has captivated the world, as a pregnant woman, was rushed out of the bombed maternity ward and marry a pole last week. An award winning journalist and filmmaker is now the first known american casualty of the war and just moments ago, cranium state nuclear company says. Russian forces have once again damage A line at the Chernobyl

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