We get support from net sweet if your business owner, you don't need me to tell you that running a business is tough, but you might be may it harder and yourself the necessary stop paying for Malta, we'll systems that dont give you the information you need when you need it did this bread sheets and all the old software you ve outgrown. Now is the time to upgrade to net sweet by work on the world's number one cloud: business system nets. We gives visibility in control over your financials h are inventory E commerce, and more everything you need all in one place instantaneously whether you're doing a million or hundreds of millions in revenue, you'll save time I'm an money with nets, we join the over twenty. Fourth, companies using nets we right now led net we show you how they'll benefit your business with a free product, tour at nets. We dot com, Ash NBC Schedule, your free brow to a right now at net sweet dot, com, Slash NBC Net, sweet dot, com, Slash and BC, run

if you listening, I hope you're able to find the thirty thousand emails that are missing You will probably be rewarded. Mightily by press. Let's see that happens, you can Donald Trump Presidency, is coming to an end in much the same way it began underground. Has top officials when it comes to Russia. This time is downplaying the severity of the massive cyber hack on government agencies and questioning the consensus from his own administration that Russia was the culprit, my God could more. and welcome the morning Joe. It is Monday December twenty four with us. We have white as Rapporteur for So I say it press giant and a mere filling in four cases this morning. And U S national editor at the Vienna she'll times add loose is with us early this morning periods are already talking, our meares performance is growing.

To early strike you much like Elvis's, first performance on Ed Sullivan. Of course he was It is up to you do you know. then was banned from the waist down. So are we do the same thing with a mere but other than that good, John or mere? You did a great job. I also perfect person have here this morning because of course, one of the most infamous moments of tromp presidency was in Helsinki when you asked whether he was going I believe, his intel community, or whether he was gonna, believe Light Amir Putin and unless say he did. choose wisely we had, the finale of that this weekend to talk about peo versus tromp. Now and if there's any body

the United States government, our own capital held that agrees with Donald Trump, that this wasn't a russian hack or, first of all, just trying to keep the seat warm Casey here, and it is probably for the best that I'm shot only from the belt up. That should be standard for all MSNBC programming, but you're right show that the trumpet illustration is sort of ending as it began with as it being widely deferential to Moscow to Russia he'd, never punish them or challenge them for the twenty. Sixteen election We know that he has defied advisers council repeatedly to be tougher on Russia, insisting that he instead that he believed that a better relationship reform with Moscow with fighter reboot in your right. The signature moment was in Helsinki when he decided to side, with Putin, rather than the? U S, intelligence agencies as to who was responsible for twenty sixteen and now what yeah he's undercoat, atop adviser just hours later hours after secularists pale. Indeed,

Russia for the cyber hat, which is the consensus of the intense. its agencies across the from all branches of government. The president cast out suggested the well, maybe it's China who, of course here Vilified handling of the core of the corona virus pandemic Jen, letting Russia off the hook, suggesting that that they were perhaps not to block and mystifying advisers, we're not sure what the upside is here for him in his last thirty odd days from Fasten he's just Doug into this position, and fusing to change once again. Perhaps endangering pretty allowing Russia perhaps permission to do again, and that's that as a final point. Oh that's! The fear here is that this is another act of aggression from Russia. There's going unpunished, and certainly we heard for President Biden, you speak against it, and perhaps when the by the ministration comes to office they will levy sanctions or some other punishment against and prudent, but from white house from this president silence.

And I had a loose you go down the list of aggression, actions by Vladimir Putin by Russia and Donald trumps, either forgiveness are explanation or are denial. And the list is, has gotten so long over the past. For years over, and I go back to this summer. Finding out that Vladimir Putin NED put bodies on their heads of american troops in Afghanistan on hearing the news, thinking or maybe just me be Donald Trump CAT a blind eye to this swear. Prudence been caught. Are trying to kill american troops and paying terrorists to do so, and yet he did then he didn't Helsinki. He continues to even now.

It's interesting, I'm Joe you, ass Jonathan them who, in. Administration be agreeing with from that. China, not anybody by Russia, we now that I'm last week, Michael Flynn was in here Love is now of he's not in the administration, but if we look at average administration began. complaint was, if you like, the first casualty of it. Having am lightly FBI about his contacts during the transition with the russian ambassador went looking at the end of the Tramp administration with the very same conviction I go flame I am President Trump to use. I guess who don't ask measure, so the insurrection ACT martial law and so forth, to overturn the results of this election. So I dont have special insights into walk. Putin has over Trump. Why does this strange denies them about

linking Russia does, but I do know that there are other people. Who are close to Russia and who are also place to trample on these crucial. very, very important last thirty days where he still has the massive. Was I am of the! U S, president. All the subject of Michael Flynn? President Trump is searching for new ways to undermine the election results. We learn, that those ideas now reportedly include a Flynn. The idea of declaring martial law in Sweden, its and then using a conspiracy theorist to help returned the election, we'll get to ongoing coup attempt in just a moment, but first after eight long months, Congress has finally reached a deal on a nine hundred billion dollar corona virus relief Bell. The bill will include six hundred dollar

meaning a family of four could get up to twenty four depending on their income, there's all payments of up to three hundred dollars per week for federal unemployment, benefits which begin as early as next week. It also includes a twenty five billion dollars in rental assistance and extension on fiction moratorium, which was to run out in days, the Bible and build does not include a republican priority of liability protections nor one of the Democrats. Priorities have state and local funding voting. on the bill is expected to come later. Today, let's bring in political Sidney our course washing in correspondence on and co author of the political playbook honour polymer. With more on this. tell us so the details of veal, some of the sticking points and Where do we go from here?.

It's been a long drawn out negotiations as we are all aware, and they, finally, that, alas, bid gas before the end of twenty twenty have come to a deal here, and why did both rider happy, which is usually happen when these had a big MAC Review come together? I think one of the biggest things it's exactly the fact that we haven't even Steen Text this bill, even though they are expected to be voting on it in the coming hours. The White House says its point to sign it in the big question remains what few could there be for any more money coming anymore stimulus coming, the numbers are only gonna get tighter it. Twenty twenty one is that this could really be one of the last packages and relief efforts that Congress is able to do so. Jonathan, a mere the president wanted more money more than Six hundred dollars talked about getting becoming in the process, but really

and so much in the end? And you actually had that by partisan consensus group in the center sorted Joe Mansion that Mitt Romney driving this from the start? That's a relief for so many Americans that son this deal is is finally done, though, of course frustration that it took so long You're right, President Trump really play the hands off role. Treasure sector mnuchin was his so preventative during these talks, but the present outside of the strait tweet really wasn't part this, although he almost blew up the process late last week. What he's too wanted of much larger into the hands of Americans and was told by advisers that simply there begins in the senate- would not go for that You know we now, but it does the flag it by Parson agreement has reached the present is expected sign this, and my question, for you would be we heard from both the aisle that this deal is a first step for perhaps second step after what we saw in the spring and others hope

or another package, both sent majority Mcconnell, so we're plus shimmer, say that more will be needed next year. That of course, will come under abide them, how easy or frankly, how How will this be to put together a package like this? Could it be even bigger next time, around going to be very, very, very difficult. I can't underscore that enough frankly, me with his two months to get this deal done really at the end of the wire, and if you look at the majorities in the house in particular, there is going to be very little weasel room for a speaker, Nancy Policy to get any kind of a deal done, particularly when you look at house Republicans Two years later, wanting to fight for a majority they're gonna be having that in their state every single day then, if you tried to suggest a down payment in terms of things that they didn't get in there. They didn't get that state and local

that they wanted to. But it's hard to see how were what would be the mechanism that would actually force Congress to act and this unless there is some really big economic downturn, political on a poem. Thank you very much for coming on this morning. Now. To the wild talk about a special council and even using martial law to help overturned. The election and we see news has confirmed that during a meeting inside the oval office on Friday, president from discussed naming election conspiracy theorist Sidney Power as spare council to investigate the twenty twenty election the story. Worse first reported by the New York Times, which says that most of the president's advisers opposed the plan. Tells NBC News that Whitehouse Council passed Zeppelin and White House Chief of Staff, Mark Meadows cut the meeting off because it was going in

an alarming direction. Last on the far right network news MAX former national security adviser, Michael Flynn, who also port supported in the meeting floated idea of seizing voting machines and deploying the military. to re run. The election in swing states the washing was the New York Times and the Associated Press reported that Trump asked about idea during a meeting a source, tells the post The proposal was shot down by mark meadows and simple lonely. the President denied the martial law reporting, calling it fake news. The army, however, felt the need to issue a statement. Saint quote there is no role for the. U S: military in Determining the outcome of an election according The times trot attorney worded Giuliani, participated in that Friday meeting by phone and that he also pushed back on these special council idea? But that's perhaps because Julia

It focused on his own effort to overturn the election by seizing voting machines axiom Israel is following up on the reporting by the New York Times that Trump attorney we'll be Giuliani, called the second in command at the Department of Homeland Security, to attempt to says the machines for the trunk can to inspect. the conversation between Mr Giuliani and can could you Nellie the acting deputy Secretary land security took place. Last week, according to people from with a discussion, granted known and unlimited, because they were not authorized to describe it, who tonelli reportedly told Giuliani that the department has no authority to seize voting machines. Though it overseas. The cyber security and infrastructure secured agency or size. Which is responsible for safeguarding elections the Times

What's it is unclear whether Mr Trump, this facilitated the phone call Julia. They called could Chanel to push the department to re, examine the machines to find evidence of what the trump campaign, has called widespread fraud. Times report our Maggie Haber men tweeted- that attorney sin, Sidney Powell, pitched and executive order to seize the machines during the Friday white as meaning Spring in New York Times reporter and MSNBC national security? Endless Michaels, for more on that it is so confused because I thought city Pavel after she said the law floor had rigged the election with Brian Cowen people. She wasn't part of tea with that centric you're, not my I am struck by something Jonah Goldberger out last week, which was basically saying Donald Trump, us Out of his mind and and If he had told

public in six months ago. What Donald. we're going to be doing now there accused him of having Trop derangement syndrome bet. It has gotten so bad that It would have been shocked even six months ago, and yet here they remaining quiet for the most part and and leather, and not calling him out for this. But I just I just down what makos reading this is what he has done over the past month or so called for the arrest Joe Biden and family put pressure on the party general. His attorney general of the United States to arrest his political opponent when We find in the polls refuse to guarantee a peaceful transfer of power now this weekend we hear about the call four martial law and in fact the president asking whether you could call martial law talking the seizing of voting machines, the using of republican governors.

Terry of states and local officials of being in a conspiracy with Hugo Chavez and Joseph Stalin and whoever Elles and getting to the point where it yes liberals this weekend? The defenders of the republic or Kin Coochie, Nellie and more men, I was thinking about that for a moment, but Michael, it is getting actually to the point where you just wonder. If we should just get rid of twenty fifth amendment, because at any other time any the same time it would be used to temporarily remove a present from office if he were talking about these sort of thanks. Look, I think there is is a fact at this point at. If Donald Trump could he would steal the election and he would stay there regardless of anything else, and that peace We only being held back my folk

Cochin Alley and meadows. As you were saying who, truly loyalists those are not sorted John, Kelly's or Don began of earlier of the administration. Those are folks that had been around, the president for four years and were really true supporters of him, but are clear the unwilling go along with this passive bologna who authored some of those you know very outlandish documents defending the president during impede These are not. You know me earlier containers of the administration. This is true play the last line of it's that are still around tromp and me. So the symmetry here the need book end of Michael Flynn, the president's first national security adviser back in Oval office too, to the fake provided

opinion, if not advise the president How to use Martial law these incredibly, I guess for lack of a better word, creative ways of trying to overturn the election Michael when the arrears Ty back to Russia, Michael Flynn, who we still do not know why He lied about his contacts with the russian ambassador microphones. And who bill bar following the lead of sick of of his lawyer, pow going to Court To throw out his case too? they just thrown it out. You know, sort of wrapped up into wine. With thirty days left in trumps. Administration Jonathan Le Maire. I mean correct me if I'm wrong that this debate is is beyond sanity.

absolutely pushing the norms of our democracy and and dangerous and annex unexpected Unchartered territories, What would inspire someone around? The present to do more, not to be urging people too vote. The twenty fifth amendment to it makes me ask questions: I can President pardon himself, or does he have to act crazy enough to get booted out. So we can get pardoned by someone else like what could be at play here, which number one. Have the people around him not acting in a serious way about this behaviour? which is at the very least undemocratic. And at the very most, something that is probably not something I should say on television yet and Who else would be the motivation for this behaviour when this Action is so clearly over and I think we need a

make it at thirty days is a long time. He still president areas a long time to do a lot of damage. He's president, for thirty more days- and I think we to your point- You'Re- we some that meeting on Friday, we did see some advisers try to push back to of staff meadows. The widest council include, but there's not many voices left in that White House. This is the president's circle has grown ever smaller. He is someone who is listening. Creasy lightly to the likes of Michael Flynn and regionally Ani. There aren't many aid have a zero shortly could sway him to get it to change course in that building are, we reported over the weekend there's going alarm among people close the president, say he has grown more willing to embrace outlandish conspiracy theories that he has been sort of convinced in recent weeks that indeed this election stolen for him than at the beginning of this fight that it was more powerful it was not showing a supporters that he was combating it, but there is an acknowledgement that he indeed did lose Joe Biden and now he's talk self into the idea that maybe hasn't

Michael. I wanted to ask you. We know the one thing that was discussed on Friday was you have any power being appointed some a special council to look into election far below the presidency also flowed the idea of a special council being wanted to look into Hunter Biden. The President Elect son, just the president himself. Can you clear this up to see if the authority to do that, or is that something has to be done in a special council through the department, ass. The snow is re indication that you're William Bars in his last days and then it's gonna be act. Internal Jeffrey Rosen that Rosen Do that or the president perhaps Placing with someone who might also many things die from tests the system in ways that I don't think that we often thought it was. So we have to sort of real fuckin and try to re. Imagine the government playbook to understand whether something like this could happen. I ain't sort of assessment that the present

could not appoint a special council unilaterally on his. The attorney general would need to do that. The president get just sign and executive order. Saying here is my: special council so well The question is: is that attorney general wouldn't do that. What would the president to so the prince could replace his attorney general if he did not think that attorney. General was doing as he wanted to trump could fire. His attorney general, whoever that is, and try and get some one in that position to do they have to go through with this, and You know some history of this in any Trump administration, where the president, I wanted the Justice Department to take specific actions that he himself, the president, cannot do, despite when he thinks he's not the countries law enforcement officer? That's that's! The attorney general and ultimately the White House, lawyers have determined indeed an indifferent cases for the president that if he

it's not like what the attorney general's doing. He can't do it himself. He has to replace the attorney General Michael's words, author of the great book, Donald Trump versus the United States. Thank you so much for being with us this morning, greatly appreciated as always and Ed lose. You think back to Richard Nixon crimes during Watergate Some of the things that were caught on tape, casting the taping, a political opponents, wiretapping, afore go opponents and you can that too Donald Trump openly saying this weekend, talking up is suggesting a coup though the United States Military, comes onto the streets and and and voting machines are seized. They have a clue.

and they re run. The election in swing states were Donald Trump lost and suddenly. What Nixon was doing seems like a sort of spring picnic, and why Donald is doing, sounds fully familiar. No, what we ve got used to right wing and left wing strongman across the globe doing the past thirty forty years yeah, I'm into his gives a reverse it it is. Can much was the fact that you know you have the chiefs of the army and people in the Pentagon, seated, generals, disavowing anymore actually role anymore I can electoral outcome is both extremely alarming levels. Slightly reassuring. You don't get you don't get military chiefs in Russia issuing statements like that and keeping their jobs it not inconceivable, that tramp does formally go to the pan.

gone to the chapel joint cheese and asked What are the acting defend, separate asks for the insurrection ACT and the next she days anything is possible. We know that there is no circumstance in which you will admit to being a lose that we know from Mary Trump. His knee somewhat sheets told us about trumped up, bringing that that was what friend, Trump schooled him in and we also know that is going to do anything its leverage for the past presidential legal cases against him. He needs control of the Republican Party. I guess the difference with the next. An era is that Republicans participated with Democrats in reforming government. After next we have the church committee and groups like that. Efforts like that, I don't really see this republican Party today as having any appetite to joining

We kind of inquiry as the abuse of power under President tromp. I might be wrong, but I think the real difference between makes men Trump is the Republican Party. It has changed radically or I still I had a morning Joe countries around the world shut off from travel to and from great Britain after a new strain of corona virus was detected there. Are you what scientists know about at here watching morning Joe could be right back we get support from grab are, you know about grub, they do, Delicious food right to your door. If you like me, just a mention, grandpa makes your mouth water seriously. What's not love you, because growling you want some good and you don't even have them. The house, one of my favorite things about rubber especially right now, is

deliver safely with contact, free delivery or curves. I pick up no hand off required. They ve also got perks, always on deals. Free food and rewards on pizza, tacos, she and more so you always have options for all their piggy eaters in your house grab. It we're three hundred thousand restaurants nationwide from local restaurants to national favorites There is always something new to discover just neither night, my I ordered these bomb breakfast burritos with egg cheese, bacon, hash browns good guidance and courteous on fries a hit the spot just right, delicious who does low breakfast for dinner? So what are you waiting for? Get the food? You love with perks from grub up grub, what you love Head space is one of the only meditation apps advancing the field of mindfulness and meditation through clinically validated research. So whatever the situation had, space really can help. You feel better overwhelmed heads.

has a three minute s west meditation for you. I actually use this when the other day and it was super Hatful had spaces approached him from this can reduce stress, improve sleep, boost, focus increase your overall sense of well being and maybe most importantly, they make it easy you to build a life, changing meditation practice with mindfulness that works for you on your schedule, anytime anywhere. You deserve to feel happier and spaces. Meditation made simple go ahead space. Calm, Slash NBC News: that's head space, DOT, TK such NBC News for a free one month, trial with access to head spaces for life, Mary of meditations for every situation. This is the best deal offer right now head to head. they start com, Slash NBC News today. Now The UK, where Prime Minister Boris Johnson imposed to lockdown in several areas, including the London, impacting about a third of the population there Some warn that Britain,

dealing with a new covered nineteen strain, that's up to seventy percent more infectious and that he was scrapping plans to allow household to mix for Christmas. Given the early evidence we have on this variant of the virus, the potential risk it poses it is with a very heavy heart. I must tell you we cannot continue with Christmas as planned. over the weekend, countries across Europe raised to ban travel from the UK. Canada halted flights for twenty seventy two hours New York Governor Andrew Cuomo is calling for a similar ban on travel from the United damn add lose this new strain of the corona virus sounds so ominous what more you tell us about the travel bans and it's going on in the UK right now as it pertains to corona virus and how people are really

funding to this news. I think they were responding very badly, aiming biased Johnson. It had promised them that Christmas the council as the language goes in Britain at the moment at right until you days ago. In any, then, he announced this new cycle, tat for which is a man Some level of restriction Party because of this so called mutant, I'm strain of covered nineteen. And the Planet a backlash against Johnson said a failure to foresee these measures. Has been huge but more of a man. It's prompted rest of Europe cut Britain to capture well from Britain, but even freight from Britain the same time as as we ve got the failures far to conclude any deal for Britain's exit from Europe, which happens on January, the first, if you get a no deal breaks it

written crashing out ways a coinciding with these travel bans on Britain, You're saying when I guess today went to substances is the longest night where wherein the longest night at the moment in Britain, this is an extraordinary crisis, and it's hard to see how far Johnson's going to get out of it. well, I will move national. Let us on the vaccine, President Elect Joe Biden and Doktor Jill Biden will receive the first doses of the Pfizer Coco ten vaccine in Delaware today the shots be administered in public, as the President elect hopes to send a clear message to the american people that the seen as safe. Vice president come Le. Harris has said to receive her first. Does that the vaccine next week That calm says these centres for Disease Control and Prevention Advisory Committee issued its next set of rights. Conditions for who will bring

the vaccine. People Seventy five and older, along with essential workers, will be next in line following health care work Ferris and those in assisted living centres. This group, deemed is one be includes first responders, such as firefighters and police officers, teachers postal curse and others altogether. About forty nine million people. The round is expire. It to start in the coming weeks after the CDC grants. Final approval meanwhile, the first shipments of the Medina vaccine are in transit this morning, as the First line of defence against the corona virus. Take shape distribution The vaccine began yesterday just two days after receiving emergency use authorization from the food and like Administration, Madonna be shipping its vaccine nationwide through the healthcare supply chain management. Company MC, which says

that initial deliveries should arrive by today. Now, according Operation warp speed officials and nearly six million doses of the more definite, I've seen have been designated for distribution to more than two hundred different locations across the country, the Turner and dissipates, that twenty million doses of its vaccine will be delivered by the end of the year, running us Now- is Doctor Peter Hotels, dean of the National school of tropical medicine at bail or college of Medicine and Co. Director of the Texas Children's hospital centre for Maxine development. It's great, Have you back on the show? This is hopeful we're looking at me? from from what I just the news. Just delivered, maybe a three month window here to get the vaccine. To all these first line of defence folks

Look at sir. It's a pretty big undertaking, but you know we ve done it before we be role at eighty five million doses of influenza vaccine we are not. This is a bit more complicated because of the freezer requirements, but the hope is that we can move pretty quickly now with the Madonna vaccine, which does not require that minus hundred degree freezer. You're, just just the either, if it could be sort of refrigerator temperatures for a month and and and if not at minus twenty degrees which typical hustle freeze or so so there is some optimism that will be able to do that. I think the only thing I would say is that we and from the diagnostic testing that that our health system can handle a lot of complexity. So I worry that about making these guidelines overly fussy are overly stir. Overly stringent when we can't operation was so trying to catch up

together the different headlines? This morning we have a band of travel and the UK dealing with a more stronger strain of the corona virus sets more contagious Do we know you heard about this and enters the vaccine? Do we note the vaccine covers? It, then? Is that a dumb John, I just wondering these headlines fit together. Now asked actually the two most important questions, and so the story on the UK is this: are there they ve noticed initially set in the South EAST of England and can't and then in London? And now in Wales, in Scotland increasing replacement with specific

color lineage, what they actually qualify religion at a cluster of virus. That has several mutations, including some better in the part of the virus. That talks with our host tissues by the receptor binding domain and the fact that it seems to be appearing in increasing frequency in throughout the UK gives people part

were concerned that maybe it's out competing all the other lineages is not really a true strain as such in and for that reason, based on modeling projections, they think this may be a more transmissible version of the virus, not necessarily more suit more severe disease, but were more transmissible. That's not based on any experimental evidence, as far as I know about transmits ability, it's all based on concrete projection and modeling, but it was enough, although paw, not from a concern that it gave the british Prime minister pause to say, look, I'm a word were worried enough about it. We want to get ahead of it. We don't want to find out about this after the fact how effective the travel bans will be, it's it's really hard to say be because we ve learned how quickly this virus travels across the Well done my we. It took us weeks, for instance, to find that the covered nineteen virus, the size torrent of ours, too, had entered New York City for from Europe. So so little,

we'll see how this Panza we'll get some experimental evidence, hopefully pretty soon. I do not think a little effect. The vaccine I'll take it doesn't look like uptake, looks like and the effectiveness. I think it looks as though it's a small enough change that the current vaccines will still work. In national school of tropical medicine at paler College of Medicine, Doktor Peter hotels. Thank you so much and coming up Tromp finally breaks his silence on the russian cyber attack against the? U S, but instead of downplaying the attack the questions whether Russia was involved, well dig into that next morning, Joe hey Guys Willie, guys tier, reminding you to check out the Sunday sit down podcast on this week's episode

I get together with Oscar nominated actress, Turingi P Hansen, to talk about her new series in using our platform to shine a light on mental health. You can listen to our full conversation right now. On the Sunday sit down, podcast get it for free were, you download yours at present has obliged part when it comes to Russia, and so you can expect That's the response and he would have wanted scores? Is Russia Action, impunity with regard to the cyber attacks Gus. They don't think we're capacity to respond and like measure they all recognise that our defence is inadequate was republican, Senator Mitt, Romney reacting to president trumps comments on Sunday. Russian cyber attack against the federal government Romney was refer ring to trumps series of tweets on Saturday, in which he wrote in part cyberattack. It's far greater in the face news media event in actuality, I've been fully brave than ever

as well under Control Russia, Russia, Russia, is the priority. Chit chat anything happens. This is yet another sample of the president undercutting his top officials when it comes to Russia here is, Secretary of State, my palm peo. Clearly confirming the vast hack, a view a federal agencies is linked to Moscow, a significant effort, you a piece of third party software to essentially in bed, inside of U S, government systems and allow appear systems of private companies and companies and governments across the world as while. This was a very significant effort, and I think it the case that now we can say pretty clearly, but it was the rushes that engaged in this activity, President Trump also falsely tied voting machines to the cyber attack, to which the former director of cyber security and infrastructure security,

can see Chris Crabs tweeted in response, the proof is in the paper can audit or recount again to confirm the outcome like they did and Georgia and Michigan, and content and So you can't hack paper, joining us now, president of the council, on foreign relations and author of the book, the world, a brief introduction Richard US and former? U S ambassador to Sweden under President Obama Mark Brzezinski, whose than the National Security Council staff under President Clinton as director, russian and duration affairs and the financial times at loosened the peace? The mirror are still with us as well and Joe. I and I appreciate Mitt Romney to stepping out. So it's certainly not criticizing here, but blind spot is at this point in statement of blind spot to Russia is not what the president has there some connection with Russia. That constantly has him defending Vladimir

demanding an ultra. We ve talked about Helsinki Jonathan Ass, a question and he said he trusted the KGB agent more than he trusted you Intel agencies, you could talk about the bodies, that would put on american soldiers heads and yet the president did want to eat talk about called that fake news. Now, we're being told this massive breach by the Russians was also fake news when in fact you heard what Hey said: Yosemite also it Tom Sparser Tunnel, Transformer homeland security adviser talking about this sweeping and it will take years to nose for certain which read networks, Russians control, on which one say just occupy the access Russians now enjoy can be far more than simply spying. It is widespread Republicans and Democrats across Washington. no that and the only person, Once again, it was defending the Russians is Donald Trump,

So Richard eyes talk about the scope of this hack and Y Y, see what's the possibility for damage and what should I do. It is responsible for what is clearly now. Why read those in captured gold, so many central critical. U S. Agencies and companies compromise here. So this this is it a serious penetration? What I think really mean matters is whether the penetration was for purposes of espionage, collect mature, which is bad, but it's one thing as opposed to the purpose of disrupting operations and that that's a different qualitative that, and I don't think we know that as yet. Mainly espionage, then armies the larger policy is to make ourselves by increasing protection. The idea we're so vulnerable, as it is outrageous. If, however, the Russians going beyond espionage. If it's actually today

truck? Our did the ability of these agencies that that's an offensive action, and that requires us not simply to protect better, but also to go on the offensive. Do things that would hurt Russia, this could be symmetrical going against their digital the targets or, be asymmetrical, using sanctions or other tools. So ambassador marked Brzezinski? What do we do? Naxa with this information in front of us with information over the past four years, Donald the lack of policy on Russia the Obama administration, and there are pushing for a reset that ended. Disastrously you can look back, the Bush administration under estimating time and again Vladimir Putin's designs on countries. hey I'm talking about looking into his eyes and seeing is so, we ve had three then to discharge the intentions of light, a mere Putin and the twenty

centuries had a free ride for one fifth of this century. Why? What does show by me what does what is a binding policy need to do to turn a page on twenty years of failure, the starting point for the bind administration. Is that proper administration has left no policy on Russia there been a wink wing nodded. relationship between Trump and Putin? the origins of which I think only historians ultimately will share with us. But it's been strange dissonance between our president at the tippy top of the: U S, government and the bureaucracy which has been in part geared towards the Goin sanctions, sanctions and enforcing sanctions on Russia for what it in Crimea, for the poisonings in London and so forth. Forward. The good news is that their a new sheriff in town.

Does not need to be introduced to the russian leadership and who has decades experience in stay in Russia, and that is present election Biden and his team, I mean it's important to remember that Joe Biden was started being the ranking member of the Senate Formulations Committee in ninety ninety seven, his secretary, Peter, the Secretary of State, Tony Blinkin, was on National Security Council staff covering Europe will Putin, ascended from AIDS, the position in Saint Petersburg to being Prime Minister of Raw in two thousand, these folks have we need each other. They know we shudder, and so you don't have a kind of it. You know. Asked in the woods approach that can be manipulated at by at the typical going forward. We ve heard from President elect that there's going to be careful assessment. Not only Russia is recent actions, but it s a long term. Actions during the Trump administration, as well

Joe. You mentioned the bounties on: U S: soldiers in afghan student, perhaps deployed by them who's. That is appalling and I quote: cost imposition strategy will be put in place, new administration that will be fact base, and address and disciplined. That's good news that will take a lot of work to re, establish strategic partnerships and and realign itself again with the relationship with Russia and its allies at loose. Should America team up with this allies across the world, especially attaining to Russia, maybe even to contain Russia. When I think of that That would just be to reinforce NATO, which is better the easily done tramper. Clearly, undermine NATO and was disrespect for the key NATO allies and binding

without doing very much at all, can reassure those same allies that the American that they want is back. The will difficulties over things like the Nord Stream pipeline. That's a gas pipeline. That's gonna be built to Germany, which I'm Trump was furious, remains furious about and which by an administration is probably not gonna, look very kindly on because it gives Putin average. But question I wanted to ask Mr Richard was over about sanctions. Is what is at the coming by an administration can do leader, TAT Putin- will make him pay for this, but retiring from doing it again. let's move easier, said than done and again. I do think that there needs to be a distinction between the rest repairing out espionage or something more operational, but the term

she's going to be tough here, we can try use digital space to embarrass bitten I don't mind saying things: what does he care most about is rule to other things, can point out about his private wealth. That are embarrassing got to him all the things we can do to four help the russian opposition. The basic they try to weaken Putin's hold, are on our side, bidding NATO, as you said, seems to me also are essential, but but this is this is at the end of the day, we are far more dependent as an economy and as a society on the digital and internet domain That, then, is Russia. Our economy, incomparably larger and more complex blushes- is largely oil and gas. So an reset of responses probably won't get Do the determined- and we have to look at the entire our relationship and ask yourself what are the pressure points in the Middle EAST,

Crane elsewhere in Europe and most of all at home against beaten in order to get him to think twice about can in doing this sort of behaviour mark the conversation so far rightly, is on russian Putin what the United States response should be, but Russia's, not the only country out of the doesn't like us and certainly in a hack like this, shows the vulnerabilities of the U S cyber security system. There are other nations that perhaps could pull off. something similar. So I'm gonna get you away and on that please, Who else should worry about in inward that what can the Eu S do matches deterrent Putin blockaded reinforce their our own system. So suddenly this doesn't happen again. Perhaps next time a country not looking just for espionage but who may look to take a bad action sure will It's I'm sure the new team under Biden we'll be thinking what are the vulnerabilities first of all of

aggressors towards us, like Russia, and it's important to remember that Putin is not invulnerable. Russia's dependent economy is struggling and as the economy struggles, so does prudence popular Russia will have parliamentary elections in September. Novelty has as rich and to Russia from Germany, after almost been assassinated through poisoning by Putin? he's going to be running and he's very popular in the russian regions, which span eleven time zones. Now then, your team problem they will not want to front confrontation, one with Russia and one with China. You ask what could be done the other source of cyber attacks and it could be China both of those countries are not totally unhappy when we, the Americans, are tied up in knots and cyber Ruction is a great way of doing that, and so it will be a little other balancing act on how handled these different

the challenges that are seeking to upset our system Richard Ass and Mark Brzezinski. Thank you both and add loose. Thank you as well great conversation and still ahead, chief White House Course, and for the New York Times, Peter Baker joins us with his latest reporting and nine months after passing, the first run a virus stimulus bill Congress Final, strikes a deal on round to mornings.

Coming right back, I it's MSNBC alley. Belching. You know these days, there's just so much news to wrap your head around its hard to know. What's most important, that's why we're updating msnbc dot com with a special feature on our homepage called MSNBC daily. It's a place where you'll find the same type of expert analysis, you're used to getting on tv, but now, with the new ridden perspective, section all neatly organised in one place, so you can go beyond the headlines and get a deeper understanding of the stories that matter most you'll find perspectives written by people uniquely qualified to write them. People you're familiar with from our network like bar but wait writing about legal matters. Doktor could eat up, tell wing and on public health list plant giving her take on women's rights and gender issues, and I'm excited to share that I'll. Be writing some pieces of my own so visit Emma

and we see dot com today and look for our new feature. Msnbc daily.