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the That was the moment karen sham found out her daughter mia was come home yesterday, the two were reunited First time, and nearly two months Twenty one year old was kidnapped from me First of all, on our over. Seventy, unfortunately, for dozens of other families, their loved ones remain captives of terrorists and other groups in gaza morning. It is not clear when more hostages would be free attempt pause in the fighting between Israel and Hamas ended yesterday there is much to get to make the front of the washington post the pope actually First a warning to Israel, Gaza and the world We journals front page right at the fold.

You have is really is planning a year long mannheim around the globe too. militants witches? Probably but this was destined to be from the very beginning, the news that is really really rattling things in washington from washington. Tel Aviv. Is this split of new york times. Exclusive israelis actually knew of this plan of attack in great specific thanks for a year for a year before october. This happened and speak to one of the reporters broke out story in just a moment with us. We have columnist and associate editor for the Washington post's david Ignatius congressional investigations reporter for the Washington post. Key element, will be reporting, of course, on cabin the car.

this call with donald website where you ve got more may not any so depressed. I gotta go see him. I can live with that, a common we also with us you as national editor financial times at loose and category is making her way to the table as well after way to early duties. This sum stairs, so the article is morning. Israel and Hamas have resumed The fighting in gaza ending a seven day truce in the region, the israeli government says rockets were launched from Gaza overnight and the final minutes of the truce prime minister's office also claims. Hamas did not meet its obligation to release all of the women hostages, thereby violating the agreed upon terms of the deal. The truth, been extended and was set to expire at the end. The day yesterday, diplomatic talks to continue the temporary pause and fighting came down to the wire last night.

lange, negotiations may have broken down, but international mediators are continuing discussions and caught her in the hopes. Another breakthrough before them fighting resume tomas released aid hostages. Yesterday the group concerned did, I mostly women and included. Do nationals from mexico, russia and Uruguay way in exchange well, once again freed thirty pounds steady and prisoners. Released a total of one hundred and five huh just during the seven day pause in the fighting israel free two hundred and forty prisoners. It is believed about a hundred and thirty seven people are still being held captive in Gaza. That includes a few Americans, the majority of them stitches are men, it's unclear how they have them, are israeli salt and David also unclear how many are actually still alive?

It is right now, based on your reporting white, what is going on in doha. Negotiations continuing Is there any optimism that there may be continued, has continued negotiations and and more a joyous scenes of us is being released. Just the mood in doha, as of tuesday, was pretty positive? They thought they had a programme set of categories for additional releases. They were beginning to talk about the secular details, of how many would be in each group. How many palestinian prisoners would be free for each group of israelis and Hamas seemed to have said they were prepared to release israeli military hostages the the biggest prize of all. So at that point it seemed it seemed helpful. The problem negotiators, understood then staring us in the face is that Israel was found to contain

new this conflict when one the pause ended continue with its campaign to destroy Hamas. That does not change that couldn't, have made it clear in his meetings with lincoln that he has. sworn to destroy Hamas Let us try to limit in the. next phase a civilian casualties, but you can see that Netanyahu determination continues. I'm sure they'll go back to work in the following, hours and days to see if they can resume it, but for now I think the guns are going to be doing well bent and and- and you look at the news again- that is shocking israelis and, of course, people across the globe that actually in that year, whose government knew about This plan for a year had been details of the specific details for a year the blueprint for it and in an egg and again

Continued did not only mishandle the initial surge, but then, back and did nothing for hours hour after hour after hours, people were calling for help. Netanyahu's government couldn't get the military couldn't get anybody. to go down a work. So save these lives of these people, who were being terrorized too question is where The pressure for Netanyahu is at this stage bombing again or is it? have Israel's continued to see me women children release from captivity. I actually think this news would put it more pressure on the man who who's got it so badly. Muffed everything what gives drawing more laws intended to get more israelis, home, distracted and, of course, to me, The bulk of the israeli forces were dealing fighting fires in the west bank

because of an incident with settlers, and so they went in Gaza has not only that they work by the way that that wasn't, that wasn't that wasn't just talk chance now This was calculated by Netanyahu. This was calculated by met me I to win political supporters in the west bank by supporting extreme settlers. In the west bank- and so he kept his focus on the west bank, diligent diligent about minimizing the palestinian authority while support extremists, settlers that made things worse in the west bank and ate them. This is this: is we aren't too? We have to tell the truth to be absolutely have to tell the truth. Dat. he was doing that. That's why his eye was off the ball why, when he knows what's coming from water the days now, they won't do that

we're going to keep focusing on since tearing barrage extremist saddler in the west bank, because that helps Netanyahu with Israel. which extremist base and is not just that, the majority of the idea if resources were focused on fire fighting in the west bank, its if the Gaza brigade was in the west bank So the level of negligence here exposed by. the old times they knew they knew the intelligence. They just clearly didn't believe that mass was kay. Full of doing this operation I walls, I believe it by only that was called. They have actually stopped listening in. on our honour mass operators. They did this continued up and combine because they weren't taking it seriously. That's how negligent There is a reason why Netanyahu began the guy. I again like we have to be clear here: it's not that they worked It it seriously its it. They were

focused on the west bank for netanyahu- yes, political survival because he has three indictments and he has to stay in power- are he goes to jail cell so so paying attention to Gaza was political. Inconvenient for him missing on the west bank. Helped him with his religious extremists. Settlers helped him with religious extremists. Groups helped stay in office, helped him stay out of jail, let's be clear here they have a blue aunt to slaughter, to massacre israelis and what they do stop listening and may stop listening and and even before these revelations, the trust. level of these israeli public in Netanyahu had dropped to single digits. Wartime leader who is getting four percent public trust According to israeli opinion surveys, they I got agenda whether you can go down to zero. He has

credibility as a wally that even his supporters understand his culpability. His is negligent and the element of design and destroying the palestinian authority and in the west bank and stoking Hamas, over a period of many many years, so go into the Y hear a little deeper into the new york times report that Israel new hamas, was planning a wide scale, assault, year before the october seventh terrorist it one year according the times israeli officials obtained and approximately forty page document. We stay code aimed as ad sad jericho wall. It outlined point by point exactly the kind devastating invasion that led to the deaths of about twelve hundred people probably many more times. Rights is really terry and intelligence officials dismissed the plan as aspirational, considering it

difficult for hamas to carry out early this morning. Israeli really defence forces responded to the report. Writing in a statement quote. The idea is currently focused eliminating the threat from the text. as an organization Hamas, questions of this kind will be looked at into a lead, stage and I will say Joe that has been the answer from Benjamin Netanyahu and his people every step of the way we'll talk about this later that the problem with that is- and we have to talk to jackie about this very mortmain- that's why it's a problem with that is dead, Israel needs. U s, funding. we need to know what we're on our way Benjamin Netanyahu. are we funding. Here's designs to stay in power are we, funding and operation where we have to look and gas. Ok was this for the in the the of the israeli people. Or is it this in the best interests of

Prime minister, who do I focused on the west bank do We turned a blind eye to the plan for a year a year where it specifically laid out so I'm not so sure, congress and the president. What prove even more money for israel until we that there is actually somebody wanting Israel that That is why I support There's, israelis, don't trust. Benjamin Netanyahu The region doesn't trust Benjamin Netanyahu, political leaders in the united states. Don't trust man that now so there is not really a later later. is now well, let's bring and right now one of the authors of this plus report run in Bergmann he's a staff writer of the europe times magazine an author of rising, kill, first, the secret story of Israel,

targeted assassinations or on a bed. That's just a perfect jumping off point because I will say the united states, I'm sure Israel across the world. We ve always did them aside. We ve always looked at the idea as Stu level as the best the best. Oh, that was in a massage operation, o them aside, always gets there, man or their woman. we see it in movies. We read about it in books box with an an and they ve been israelis militarily and and and in it- hell. Community have been paid, seven foot giants giant and you in your report, thereby they always switzerland. Mister mc go with tragic consequences. They had the plans for a year and did nothing tell us about reporting

I wanted to follow up on it. You have to follow your line, mentioning books, movies and tv series. It turns out that the is really just bob is not about their respective cuba and what we saw is the biggest villages just plug fifty years there still are it will not. Coincidentally, chose The date was a like that war. Seventy three other war, which the result of massive intelligence failure. was a day after the six of october, so the set of october, which to be isolated, stay it is much darker, the poor that all of this is the highest

Since the holocaust me. There is just to put this very concise and just for fun. Is this: the regiment site- their focuses on two may. Just those leading to the third, the first one was it the inability to assess what is it What is it said it was mine, the leader of Gaza, well thought the keys about the EU I be the ruler office it's a small state, but still a state that he understand that he cannot go into our lives at war with Israel because he will lose that state Israel. the drop. This is what israeli is got it wrong. it was also Benjamin Netanyahu got it wrong. He wanted to weaken the great he for one minute back. He

The week of the palestinian authority have a full two as it would not be see that as the partner he allowed buddy coming from others. It so. Is a thought the commerce is, the fear, Secure device to belgium and italy, five, don't these before us is afraid Israel, Hamas, would not go to another fires. They learned their. He said in a public interviews: who is really radio. The second was above them. the villagers, not the intentions The capabilities and other router, my friend and colleague, the new york times myself for publishing the story that you mentioned a year, more than a year before Israel. Just was able to get the detailed plan off the attack come ass, was planning for the time about food ages coldly

it's called there- this jericho war and its about creating a war. It's about breaking the wool separated between gun, Israel is the frogs rugby. The Gaza division, headquarters killing the soldiers. in allowing maybe maybe Hundreds other abbas meditate, to store into Israel, he'll civilian still children feel were soldiers. We know how. But if you look at the plan, it's a its is shocking, both as a journalist visitors, it is really the of knowledge about Israel, about, is rarely secret fortification at the border I am sure that one day we will know how they got this information, but this was not open source. Please me all right we're just

put up here. Some of what was seen in that report upon the screen for you. This is out of the new york times. Israel knew her monsters, attack plan again more than a year ago, officials privately concede that had the military taken, these warning seriously and reader Did significant reinforcements hammas, followed the current with shocking precision. The document call for a barrage of rockets at the outset of the attack drones to knock out the security cameras and automated machine guns along the border and gunman too, war into israel on mass in peru a gliders on motorcycles and on foot, all of which happened on october. So and dave laid out exactly to the tea David too shocking that even five days before this attack Netanyahu and his cabinet, or saying

quote Hamas is afraid of Israel, so they got him wrong at every level. What's clear that the intelligence of failure was was deep in the israeli agencies that political leadership, The weapon Netanyahu was was part that misreading. I want to ask ronan, roman of stunning peace journalism I want asking whether the primary Her baby was briefed himself on jericho wall in this us us and the second question you reporting scribes and analysed, who got it right while everybody else was ignoring this intelligence, there was a woman who said this is and for war there they're coming after she took it seriously, tell us but more about her and why

people than listener. When, all, was superseded. Its way to have a copy this is the most updated copy well the plan. They started to devise a two thousand and twelve, and maybe more precisely stood more, no accurate intelligence israeli really intelligence, both minute It tells us that the seller combined villages what's that, in this regard, but they said this is a sort of a dream, restoration this is where from us wants to be not where their able to be. This plan was It's how sixteen eighty Sixteen hundred and eight

class commandos. We crossed the border sixty different places. Israeli tells you said they can only have seventy crossing. Two places, so significant. nobody saw the gap, due to the shape, except for one person, a virtual analysts who is they are closing the gaps she didn't know that their voice? I think this is the part of the tensions. You said they will have the capability the officer just pushed back said no, this is imaginative, she even said we are closing into the future is it for the yoke kippur war? Then in the southern israel, everybody thought it's just. measures to think they will we should not disregard them. patronize other forces. We should treat the enemy as they should be treated.

Ronan bergmann of the new york times. Thank you very much for that reporting this morning in It really is. I talked about them being instead of a massage that that they had always been built up to be an the idea group of inspector clue serves a massive intelligence failure, the dark stay in Israel's history and they the end we need to assess Hamas is mine. I don't say this jackie with any glibness at all, but you get the sense from his reporting there. Bunch of men running around, with their chests stuck out going where israel they're afraid of us they're not going to I just they couldn't do this. This is ass early on their weak. We are strong and the exact quote hum this is afraid of Israel? There is one woman analyse is David, pointed out. One woman analysed did said now that this can happen closing the gap, and we,

to be aware of the anniversary. That's coming up the fiftieth anniversary of the yom kippur war she was right, everyone. else was wrong here. Reading this bombshell report and sam Ronan and Adam goldman last night. I've read it several times and kept stopping at the the fact that this analysed was a woman who Rex has done a series of reporting leading up to this in a similar vein, not on this blueprint exit What about all these female commanders who were watching over border. Advance of this attack reporting back to bosses that they were watching hammas practice these assaults and they were dismissed time and time again said. There are so many lingering questions here, but this is certainly a big black eye for netanyahu and his government. Finally, as the,

congress and end by an administration have yet? Could you told me about that from your reporting on the hill? Can you talk about where the funding and what is this do about the funding again for Go on the hill, who are already skeptical seeing with it when they don't know what we're going to find a government that new was coming for a year and did nothing and what their people get slaughtered is that who were funding so right? There are no Democrats who are out publicly against this, this additional package of fourteen billion that the administration is asking for that there are lots of concerns that are cropping up in my conversations with lawmakers this week, There are complaints that the? U s is not tracking civilian deaths. Palestinians with new s sourced farms. The rules just don't apply when it comes to how we loan money and resources. Our ally, who I believe we give them more money than than any other.

Four nation in the world one democratic lawmaker, was telling me in a briefing prior to thanksgiving. They were asking department of defense and cia briefers about the exact number. Of how many hammas militants they have killed throughout this bombing so far in the briefest, couldn't even give them specifics So do you know this is obviously extremely politically tenuous? I don't think you're going to immediately here. Some of these big democrats who are involved primarily in these conversations, come out against the funding, but the people want more stringent I don't want to call them conditions. That's us right loaded word, but I think Biden, trip to Israel and sitting in on the war cabinet meeting was in one way telegraphing to baby Netanyahu. He's got his eyes on him, and this has got to this got to get straightened out in terms of how you're running this place and need to see. What's going on here and now you see why, with warnings

dismissed out women analysts dismissed as these leaders in Israel, Benjamin Netanyahu, specifically extremely distracted. For a long period of time facing diamonds over a long period of time. Perhaps the eye off the ball, yet the bbc and she had reporting a week ago about these female border odds had been watching over what was happening, and even a month ago they had seen a senior I mean a month before the attacks had seen a senior hamas leader come very close to the wall. A color her away and it's they raised a whole load of red flags again summarily dismissed and the fact that so many people have been able to put together shows you the intelligence was there and that it was being reported up, so the netanyahu government chosen not to listen to all of this was interesting. I had a conversation with somebody in morocco just a couple of days ago, after seeing this kind of reporting same body in a wide

Israel, is take ten hours to get to the cabin is due to my name on spirits, see what which is a very long been a land of conspiracy theories. Its quickly being translated into these railways knew this was going to happen and they allowed it to happen. Why why? Why would they do that because in spirits he's running through the middle east are playing up in the middle east and it is an area of the world where there are a lot of conspiracy theories and this unity patient is going round these countries. That is somehow knew that. what's gonna happen, turned a blind eye allowed it to happen for their own nefarious, fairies meat which is, but you know if you're gonna go with conspiracy theory your cock up. In my mind, you nearly always go with the screw up. For me, that's nearly always the k, I don't buy the conspiracy theory, but it's interesting how this intelligence, the failure and the intelligence is already being weapon. Ized in middle EAST. To costs on his way. I died. I don't buy the conspiracy theory, but if you want it,

talk about the series of mistakes that Netanyahu's government made. This is this, is extraordinary start, just as extraordinary or I find even more extraordinary the fact bed is rayless we're getting slaughtered we're getting right or getting tortured for seven hours for seven hours in a small country before you he came to their aid. Children were hiding in shelters for fourteen hours. After seeing there shot, and nobody can did gave a calling? There is no explanation, someone's explanation for that David. I, what I want to just I'm sorry, maybe just Qaeda, continue to pick away I had a scar here, and you said when swore began- Israel had to fight the war with the first day after the war in mind.

Now I bring this up and I brought it up several times over the last couple weeks because after the tax. I said this is like nine. Eleven will we'll talk about. the details in a few weeks. This is a terror attack. We move The terror attack is as a nation and we support the israelis at this when we still support the israelis, but this idea that we're going to continue supporting that yeah, whose government, Them say what you now we'll get to it when we get to it. Do you know, you could say that after nine eleven. because the united states was fighting war so a and and we we had allies. But we were funding running a majority of it. Israel, israelis, now it certainly Enemies across the middle east: now what we are the primary funder of Israel and we are propping israel up, so they can

continue this fight, not against Hamas, but for their very existence you see something like this. You keep looking at stakes. The Netanyahu government makes and let the you look at the chaos in the west bank that I, like all at the feet of Benjamin Netanyahu and his policies over the past ten years, people in closely I didn't kill. I didn't blame his policies for the attack in gaza, chaos in the west bank that threatens any peace, process moving forward and also threatens another. A second thought in swore possibly a third find in this war. the united states, has the right to say if we're going to continue propping up your government. If you We have faith in this guy who knew that was coming a year away. We need a better one.

benjamin Netanyahu is not that partner window. We get to that point because if in congress, so I'd be say, If I'm saying it is one of the biggest supporters of Israel, but no gotta be a lot Other people saying it we're not going to want to throw money down a rat holes for a government that knew this was coming for a year and didn't do anything so I I trust people in Israel, are what, the show and your hearing your voice and that of people in congress on the hell saying much the same thing it's jewish and where there is fundamental american concern about israeli handling of the war and in particular the prime minister's I'll. Just tell you Joe having come back from Israel. not long ago. The israelis are his angry- is that baby net now wish you are is popular ready ratings just have collapsed and they feel it

deep sense of shame as they look at what happened on over seventy by the way they would have if it is, if his approval ratings, where seventy five percent- I wouldn't be so this, because I trust israelis to defend israelis. People are always selling israelis how to defend themselves that that's that's their business, but in this case, when there's a leader that is this negligent and and and did things that led to this slaughter nude, the slaughter was coming then at that point think we americans have a right to say that the only thing that I I'd say, caution. Is that is Israel. really has been rocked by what happened He never imagined that this kind slaughter could happen that that they be so slow to react, as you said, so how they respond to their so they re rise. Railways could never imagine if we could never imagined that this was a we looked at

like. We saw the twin towers when they were going down, seven hours, lesser imagined it, but it would be as if the fire fighters and the n y waited seven hours to get down to the burning dollars absolutely so what the system is the united states has a special responsibility. The blanket our sector estate is trying to exercise now to express tough love to be firm, not to let mistakes deepen. and we made mistakes before nine eleven. We didn't see it coming just as Israel made mistakes before october seven, they didn't see it coming. We made mistakes after we overreacted. We did the wrong things. In a week we created more enemies than we were killing that seems to be happening now. So I think part of what blinkered wants to say. As we see them- nature made before, but it's the mistakes making now that we want to. We want to prevent

no overreact, don't do what we did that was by this message running want there. I'm sure that blackness sang it again. You know that, but are they listening, so when you say they, I've I've, I just wanna say one final in Israel, I met some ass outstanding with military commanders. Now they look like like inspect refusal in this report, but don't forget as in the: u s, military. These people have a very high quality who are going to lead israel out of this mess said david for the right guy. For a year, though, David put context to this. For a year I was hearing from people in Israel from fears indoors and friends of Israel net who is screwing up cabinet he's screwing up the than the military he screwing up. The

tell services he's bringing an right wing religious zealots who know nothing about defence Israel is not talking about the military later, as you are now we're not rejected now David those data and those safeguards are still those those men and women are still there right. They were just pushed to the side. They were not by saturday. I think of the way. and who certainly kept saying. Daddy's tells us this is real. This Israel they're coming that woman is still there doing your job, and I mean I think I'll. Have the seventh israelis have failed to answer the questions what's happening in the west bank? Why have we got ourselves into a situation now where her masses approval ratings are rising in the west bank because they are the only good. This managed to get our prisoners released because settlers are not being controlled in the west bank and the number of attacks against, denounces being picked up. There are things that the israeli government could be doing even now, and I see american government not having success in raining them in the west bank and it doesn't

say: Still I had on morning Joe, we ve got a lot to cover from capitol hill, including Jackie's new reporting on why Donald trump did not intervene during the to remove Kevin Mccarthy as how speaker, maybe he was depressed, Now you plus a could be the final day in congress for republican george santos, as his colleagues are set to vote on a resolution to expel him from the house, and new sign centre. Atomic tougher bail might be ready to end his blockade on hundreds Military, joint joined. This is and to why the stupidest stance in capital hell historical, Kevin, mccarthy, george santos,

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staying in congress and tap reveal giving in what else go short and this is very much a question mark- this is someone who I think thinks he was conquered ashen, but in reality, is more of an anti delve ie and in terms of the potential criminal hunt laundering. Pretty I just came to the Duma, but this isn't that's bigger, Johnson, isn't even whipping. He set himself that can member should vote conscious The majority of Democrats are probably going to vote to expel him. That means republicans need around eighty people who get behind this expulsion, but there are a number of republicans who feel like they don't want to break precedent here. The only other people in congress who have previously been expelled have been people have been just loyal to the union during the civil war and then to other members of communist. Isn't this guy's?

expelling. As I mean he was indicted by the eastern district of new york on twenty three count indictment with all read the ethics report. The ethics committee was working on their report for aid, the two hundred and seven they were obtained. A hundred and seventy thousand pages worth of evidence and information. I think that I think is a bad bbc. Holding that day, we were still worry, we're gonna, wait. We oppose congressional reality. Tv show a netflix, but that's all. That is actually a good question. A lot of people been asking him: what is he doing next? Is there is some sort of dating show for people in prison? maybe go on our right to some reality shows that is a serious question that people have been asking him, but it remains to be seen whether or not he is actually going to get expel. Today at the house, written caucus has come out against it. They have said that one they find the ethics committee bias which, by the way

equally comprised of democrats and republicans, republicans on the committee unanimously unanimously voted to expel him found, tenant, interesting guilty it says it is ridiculous to call to call that by partisan, the biased. I think that's also for some members who probably are going to get pretty hard by the ethics committee in the future, for but but say, congress, usually yeah, they're gonna, get what we want support among the next primary and then we'll leave it up to the voters. I think that's always been. The mindset will see if they break that press here, tommy tumblr bill is, is beginning to back down She has said that he wants to get as many people nominated as possible in the coming weeks. He says that there have been some agreements come to strip the language about abortion from the national defence. The relation acts which

why he claimed he was holding everything up, but its basin. From from our colleagues to cover the senate is actually just The frustrations have been boiling over from his own colleagues. Are we getting ahead by republicans? Is exactly people like joni Ernst? It's gone beyond the the sort of hawkish lindsey, graham types and really started to pet the whole conference and then finally, a call between mccarthy trump tell us about it. Was it like a wellness jack? Wouldn't what are we talking about? How to actually good question and that we were totally able to get to the bottom of the exactly why they were speaking we were told it was sort of routine check up, laura teacher, hardly make sure the burghers we're being deliberately they both have jobs to do despite mccarthy being ousted from the speakers seat, but that in the course of that call, trump express

mccarthy. Why exactly? He declined to get people like mac aids, and other hardline republicans off of his back and in back down from there plan to remove him from the speakership? By pushing forward this motion to vacate trump said mccarthy was essentially insufficiently loyal, didn't endorse him, didn't bring floor to these these two bills? That trump and expunge has impeachment inquiries mccarthy in recollections about these conversations to other people after the fact claimed that he told trump too he's had a few. She has said. As before? This is a very similar mccarthy story that we are sort of the discrepancies between his recollections of his private conversation with trump vs. What he actually said mccarthy's people said he didn't curse him out now we ve got to people who is this. Is this is an ongoing route via Kevin Mccarthy who claim

the third parties, had he shouted screened and shouted at we'll drop in and and told him the blank, often ye laddie nigh on january six, you down for me you know exactly who these people etc, etc. There. I don't I've, never squares up. We never hear him saying that publicly never hear him talking if he talks stuff about trump. He backs down the next day. He to visit him, so I don't believe a word, I'm going to very exciting times, like f, you are getting very close to that. Yes, yes, don't worry about it either. I don't believe a word. I you know I can believe Liz Cheney, saying f you to having it fully but mccarthy to trump. No George santos is likely to be taboo truthful there than that. To be true, bessy said one of the best seven january sex. Speaking was janni was when

Certain member of the republican congress. Will Jim Jordan put his is, is our and honour or bell bird? She is good you're and also the me your response, Yes, you did their sorrow at the wash empires, Jackie alimony. Thank you very sincerely. Thank you for all the pop culture ready ass health Anita aren't coming off. The top democratic house calls out republicans for their lack of legislative achievements of slavery, This comment is your boy. Well, he was quoted its. It came, Jeff where is our right and will also bring press matthews into the conversation warning Jos coming right back, do you do No rescue committee service people whose lives have been up ended by war, conflict and natural disasters

I see works and more than forty countries and respond within seventy two hours after an emergency strikes, plus the irish sea, to resettle refugees, helping them to drive in their new community across the? U S, donations, Help the icy provide families affected by humanitarian crises with supplies and resources to help them rebuild their lives. You can help donate today by visiting rescue dot, org, slash, rebuild. The show was sponsored by better help. I would you do giving this holiday if it was completely up to you. Maybe you plan of family getaway instead of the typical gathering, replace gifts with time together or go all out because gives a your thing, but there's something we ve to consider how we give to ourselves what your family dusk find a way to give a special gift, the most important person in your life. You treat yourself with day of rest easier on yourself during tough moment and maybe even

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We ve seen some air strikes taken by the russians. that seems to be going after the kind of debate, of systems that the ukrainians have in place to protect their interests, infrastructure security spokesperson, John kirby warning that united states expects russia will again target ukrainian energy infrastructure this winter last week, her rather than limit the fighting to the battlefield. Russian forces launched attacks throughout ukraine aimed at power stations and energy says trying to cut the power to both military targets and so alien populations, john this now is Poland's former foreign, Minister and minister of national defence, radek sikorski, he's a Member of the european parliament and chair of the delegation. For relations with the united states, its really

to have you here on the sat with us ring, I showed great damn you can we talk first about it's been awhile, but talk about the significance of poland's election one of the most important elections, at least air stateside in europe. In quite some time. We the backsliding on rule of law in poland, and we manage to defeat the populists and it happened. Through a huge turnout, unprecedented when we voted on communism back in nineteen, eighty nine than turnout was sixty three percent. This time turnout was seventy four. but my dear I made the difference because most people thought justice party would probably win because they had all all controls of the government, the media they most outside observers would say: well, they basically control all the levers they should be winning this, but they didn't what happened d up,

former prime minister of poland, Donald tusk, returned and put together a coalition, and he very effectively mobile. The polish people against the corruption against taking us out of the european union that I think in the end what the election was about. We want to stay part of the west. We don't want I'm kind of authoritarian experiment, and I, I will tell you: am travelling around poland when going from warsaw going down to auschwitz and a traveler, you really could see the impact of the E. U and the funding, infrastructure, I it is extraordinary difference. One thing that I think is irrelevant in the american context is that the outgoing govern and impose the harshest antiabortion law in europe. In poland, and the young women turned out to vote, because that's enough is enough, What I'm really interested in is you donald tusk,

your leader, spent a year going round and touching peep right, basically speaking to people studying weeks, indifferent provinces getting round the state media monopolies. Of the law and justice party through in time on the ground and you getting these extraordinary turn at eighty five percent in warsaw. People understood what was at stake in the partnership And what lessons do you think we can take this side of the atlantic for twenty twenty four well electoral systems matter mobilization masses and then a piece of lack of some matters. the latter being well the the public, gained PA, because one party didn't make the threshold back in twenty fifteen and this time we all got into parliament and that's why we have a majority so the trojans personalities and

keeping the issue you win or lose depending on what they people think the election is about sometimes one it's about cultural issues. You move when, when it's about the economy or about geo political orientation. This, in this case we want David back. We read about war where weariness in europe. about the grant more uneven and in ukraine itself. But I was there. Such people seemed exhausted by the war. Is that the same phenomenon happening in poland. Do find poles who were so supportive, of zeal in ukraine, beginning to to flag their enthusiasm is as strong as it was. You know, it's easy to support ukraine when they were winning? the ukrainians are the only ones who are entitled to feel tired, because there actually losing people that is their cities that are being bombed by the russians. We have not

in huge sacrifices? You know. Our contribution on both sides of the atlantic is about the same about seventy nine billion when you the american constitution, and you add up brussels plus what the member states are doing sport fourteen trillion dollar economy. So are we with these are not huge funds if dick putin, conquers ukraine, the bill for that will be much much higher. We need to support it brain in time for them to be able recover their territory and end this war, and we need Do it for the sake of ukraine, for the sake of principle, that you cannot grab the people's land across international borders and also as a demonstration effect to other returns that recovering what you regard as renegade province is harder than you think threading ever

ukraine's own expectations. This offensive hasn't gone well by some reports. They ve got less than one percent of the territory that was taken from them back again, They look to try to make sure that the americans don't give up on ukraine because of what you ve just been saying. Does it. Seem to you that there are any messages that those who are in favour of supporting ukrainian. Both report republican and the democratic parties and, of course in the white house, could be making to the american people they're, not making it is there a way to reach american voters? That will be more successful than anything has been tried so far, because that seems to be key to maintaining support up on the hill. First of all, we are very grateful to the united states and personally, to prison and bite and for taking the right decision in standing up for freedom and for ukraine. Secondly, ukrainians, have already destroyed about half of the russian army at the X.

Of five percent. Of a u s, annual within budgets. It's really good economic ratio and remember most of the armaments supply to ukraine are manufactured in the united states. So that again our view, whereas at that summit, manufacturing knighted stay that about the percentage of the russian army, destroy well The ukrainians have been fighting first of all, recovered half about half of the origin, conquered territory and their dying and depleting the resources of an aggressive, genocidal dictator. We owe them if, if the? U n, if international order is to mean anything we need to supply the victim of aggression, with the means to redress the crime that's been committed in the international arena having taken on behalf of the russian military, without with five percent of the annual as defence budget

good value for money right. It is and but we have the same problem on both sides of the atlantic. We have not put since industries on a crisis, forty, the russians, have put the defence industry a war footing, and yet we are richer, but we are not making enough equipment and ammunition. it that our reform? polish foreign minister erratic sikorski. Thank you very much for joining us here. Onset. It's great to see you here. What head for your business, a new building for employees. International expansion, jewish This lifecycle advisory can help get you. There learn more. A truly stockholm, slash commercial banking, truest bank member ft. I see.