Are you tired of the mainstream media, condescensions snap judgments and outrageous bias national reviews podcast the this is your oasis of sanity and clarity in a world gone mad, join Nor view right is like rich lowry, Charles see, w cook, Jim Geraghty, jack butler and others for an in depth, analysis and incisive commentary on the lake, news in american political life find us on apple, podcast, spotify or ever you get your point. Welcome to the Mccarthy report, podcast, where I rich Larry, discuss with Annie Mccarthy, the latest legal and nash.

Security issues this week. What else the latest on gaza and trump's legal dramas by the way for some reason, you're not already following us on a streaming service. You can find us everywhere from spotify to itunes and Give this part cason, Andy Mccarthy, the glowing. Indeed, gushing fight our views they deserve on itunes. Now without further ado, I welcome too this very podcast through the miracle of riverside none other than any cruelty or you get Andy has got good back in the mid west for a bit. Haven't I'm having trouble saying upbeat, I have to say I usually try to think of something amusing. We can talk about now. It's not like nothing good, as happened, I mean first, do you know first, the braves loss than the phillies lost? So that's what it's all good in I'm living dreamier as a shock to wake up this morning and see my capital said, had beaten your devils. I had forgotten they're playing a cat.

I scored six goals. I think they'd scored seven goals all season prior to this and like five games. So this was a an epic offensive outbursts for the cavs. don't seem like the nhl season sees. It is like thirteen months. It does it's mean as raising a games they play so alright! Well, by the way I have confirmation. A couple of episodes ago I was like oh we've gone too long on on sports and nagin. Has back in now. Why? Why are they still talking about sports and she sent me a text confirming that that was indeed her reaction. So hopefully you haven't gone too too long here and let's get in Sheila Gaza first so ground invasions. Theirs. Pardon me, ideas as trying this theory on someone just before we start recording here and it's totally and another armchair theory, but I just wonder whether waiting

know negotiating over the hostages who who knows what fruit that's going to bring and is obviously deeply troubling. This is the reason they took hostages in the first place, we've gotten four back so far, but and holding off the ground invasion, maybe he's not a great idea in the first place at the same time, there's not so nothing's happened there pounding hounding them from the air is a little bit like. Ok forget where we have this brown invasion that we're can negotiate over and will have them a binding ministration way on a whether with whether should do it and then, by the way we had. This Enormous ongoing campaign from their yeah- and you know every day that they dont go win,

I think swings the argument, more obviously in favour of the people who didn't think it was a great idea to go in the first place because of all the problems that weave covered, because every day you get a little bit more removed from just the the visceral emotional reaction to. Tell seventh, which was to the real reason for wanting to go on in the first place, on the other hand, you know look, we we ve talked about how they ve marshalled, three hundred and fifty thousand Groups, which is a monumental thing to have done, and they have all signed it yeah have to train on the fly. But you don't call you don't bring in that many troops as you? U wanted. Firstly, this is what I remember rich when we were talking about.

Invading ukraine and the bite administration people kept saying you know they thought it was probably a blow and we were like you know that two hundred thousand troops is that some that's a very expensive bluff you down yet- so obviously the still worried about all the things we talked about the worried about the north. More than anything else and and hezbollah in iran's proxy, and if they go and look if they if they went in two weeks from now, you know six months, Now we wouldn't remember the delay right, we just be dealing with the whatever the the aftermath was, but I can't I can't help but think that even though the ground invasion hasn't happened. It just seems to me like the conflict is widening and I I think, gets a miscalculation on my part in the sense that I thought what would widen the conflict was the actual active going in and I'm not so sure,

right about that. I think you know we're seeing it widen and I believe they have a rainy and attacks on our faces and whatnot yeah. I think that at an I blame bite- and for this I mean them the more provocative they get with us. I mean yesterday I heard the Biden administrate I can say that if iran engages in this kind of provocative, behavior they're going to be sorry and I'm like they're engaging in it. What are you talking about? I mean this has been going on for like three weeks now. Also, they kind of it, though, though parsing lawyer and me when blinking said the other day, if IRAN Talks attacks are a troops, and assets will defend them which, which either could be interpreted there was a general had no trial in turkey. In this way, this is a red line. You know we're gonna hit youth, you hit us but defence

It could mean okay, we're going to put up more missile batteries and you know build build higher walls yeah, it's just it's very hard, it's very hard to take, and it's especially hard to take when- and this is a whole, I point to make because of the the monumental suffering and damage that happened to Israel, which you if you want to feel like you're minimizing, and I it's not my intention to do that at all, but being an american and caring very much about what happens to the israelis and putting that to the side for a second thirty. Three americans were killed in this attack. It's the worst terrorist attack since nine eleven and they may be held holding ten to twelve of our people and who really knows how many rich, because we never got a full account

in ramming you, you have some sense of who's missing, and but you know the numbers keep changing, they're, not changing as much as they were like ten days ago, but they're still ticking upward, but I mean they mass murder, americans and there. Holding americans hostage and their attack in our troops and the attacks on our troops, and it has now been more than ten of them. I may one: do you start saying this? This is not acceptable and go on office. I just don't I just. get it yes, sir. The add on your recommendation. I listen to the hoover institution. Good fellows podcast, with with me off ferguson hr and john cochrane and hr was using this term return address for for iran, and it's it's really true. These deep, barely been pardoned scotch and right, there

patients try to minimize as much as possible Biden hasn't talk about at all for one line as good those in their bid. One line the oval office and there really, you think you know How much are we going to influence Hamas ray? Are we really going to we're going to start bombing Hamas and Israel's bombing Hamas has surveyed the the the actor that you think have most like deterrent power over most influence. over is a and it it it seems as though there thing You can do that will be short of an all out war that would reestablish that deterrent make them pay attention. Nathan, take whatever time them now taken more seriously on very cod low show last night, just like interdict one ship, let's just interdict ones,

that would send out a message and it would send a message, but I think you could probably do something much much more than that, which is what would be fully within the bounds of of reason. That's right, you know you mention h. Are you also talked about into addicting, essentially shutting down the iranian ballistic missile commerce in IRAN that now that another wonderful consequence of the of the Biden of the obama, Iran's deal is that, while everybody's attention was Israel and rightfully so from october? Seventh, on the limitations on IRAN's ballistic missile programme lapsed on october, seventeenth, as they were supposed to under the agreement that oh Mamma negotiated, that Biden,

the more we learn about the way the dynamic of foreign policy worked in the obama administration. The more were learning. That Biden was very influential in all of this, which of course, is why he was brought in in the first place right. He was the obama had no foreign policy experience at all, so they you know, the has been they brought in to be. Vice. President, was the head of the year, the foreign relations committee in the senate? Writing? which is why we are able to say that that binds been wrong about every foreign policy, the controversy or decision that had to be made in the last fifty years, because he's been frightened centre on them because he held important positions in the government. So he was influence, when that- and you know now in order, we, we were told by Obama that It was ok to do all this, because if they did anything, we could snapped back sanctions and now no one snap and back and

actions, we're not even doing much of anything and there were attacking us, I mean how long do you put up with that end? I'll. Tell you how long you put up with it a long time, because the more it happens, the more it will happen, the more you convince them that you just don't want to mix it up with them, and I also think rich. The more you talk idiocy publicly like what you just mention about lincoln is a ridiculous thing to say undisturbed. This is where we're being head. The other thing we're saying is were relying on our friends in cutter to help us through this cut her wisdom, muslim. if a cutter is the one I mean they fund this thing knowingly that there were Hamas, his main financial backer. Yes, it ran arms them, but no one funds them like qatar does and the other one who protects them

first is ankara, is, is irwin internally or other great ally so made out in terrible YAP, but it but rich did not different. I wrote a book about the the hour. spring, while it was happening, so I waited was called spring. Fever was like two thousand levin. Two thousand twelve was mainly about about irwin, and he was backing Hamas in the muslim brotherhood. Then he saying the same stuff now that he's been saying for you so as to ensure so wended cutter go bad. It's always been bad, it didn't go now, it's it's always been bad I think the most sensible way to look at this is that cutter is the muslim brotherhood, the government there. the regime there is the muslim brotherhood. They most hamas, they hosted the muslim brotherhood, they hosted

shake kara dowie when he go on it? You know shake our daily. Who was the most influential, sunni islamic jurisprudence in the world, who had a programme on Al Jazeera, which is also hosted by cutter, which called shariah and life, and some weeks rich they got. Sixty million people would watch that programme. That's how that's how influential he is the reason that that's why you have to roll your eyes when you know when or government talks about You know moderate islam breaking out everywhere and then you turn to that in the world, you should see that shape carriage outweighs the biggest of media. Star

and he's the one who was adopted by Hamas as their guiding light, and he gave all the fat was. That said, even women should participate in the suicide bombings. He said that his highest hope in life- and this is completely tracks the muslim brotherhood model right, but he wanted to die in the way of jihad, which meant said, as are nearing the end of my life. What I'd like to do is even in a wheelchair, take me to the battle line and I'll shoot at the Jews, and you know they'll be most and I'll, die in glory that way. You know it bombing on the on the battlefield. So you know that's, that's cutter cutter provides protection for all these guys financially backs them. I mean they have better. They have a better deal with cut her, I think, than than Al Qaeda head with the taliban, because the talibans grip on power in afghanistan was not us,

there is the cutter regime's is in color and their protecting all these guys and which reading them, like it ally last year, Biden gave them major non nato allies status to recognise help what a beneficial relationship it is for the united states. I mean, if you, the arabians, you ve gotta, be doubled over and laughter locked. some of this stuff yeah. Can you remember a time when you thought someone you disagreed with, might actually be right in the new podcast. You might be right, former tennessee governors bill hassle. and feel bread is imposed. That question to guess, like Paul ryan, Al Gore and Judy Woodruff comfort, the stories stay for the substance and expert insights into some of the most challenging issues facing the country, including affordable housing, crime and education, can t you might be right and new podcast from the baker school, the university of tennessee available wherever you get your pod.

So, let's talk about the domestic front. We continue to see these protests on the streets, college, campuses, bay, ridge, brooklyn, we saw when our over the weekend J w. washing university. Had these kids projecting the messages on the universe, walls in saint same genocidal stuff,

so what's your what's your latest thinking about how? How does she consider this and can anything be done? I think it's unacceptable for the federal government to just continue to say this is terrible, and you know we love israel. We love our our fellow americans of of jewish heritage and all the all the pablum that they that you hear from them, because they are in a position to do something about it and they are the only ones who are in a position to do something about it. We have civil rights laws that have been on the books. For ever we talk about them

add in and in other contexts, but you know in some iteration or another they've been on. Some of them been on the books since, after the civil war right- and there is a there's, a statute that the justice department can use. That says if two or more people conspire to oppress or threaten or intimidate people in the exercise of their federal rights, which include your your fundamental rights under the constitution in any rights you have by statute, including you know, the freedom to walk the streets, the freedom to to protest, the freedom to live a jewish life, as as as the jewish people. Obviously guano do and have every right to do if if people engage in behaviour to prevent to target jews and prevent them

from enjoying their federal rights, they can be felony prosecuted for civil rights violations, and you know you seeing people get beaten to a pulp in some of these demonstrations. You know it seems to me wretch when the sun goes down, things really get a wire loudly cities. This is under this law. You can be to present not only for ten years. If somebody is seriously hurt or killed, you can be certain that you can be prosecuted capitally and you can receive even a sentence of life imprisonment of not dead. This is like a serious crime and I thank you know. We certainly know the justice department knows how to make an example of something when they want to write. They have prosecuted. What is it a thousand somewhere b, We, like a thousand eleven hundred people for the capital riot,

I have a nonsense. Half of these prosecutions, but they've wanted to make an example out of people, and all you would need to do here. To put a stop to this nonsense is: do a roundup of a bunch of cases grabbed bring these people in and prosecute them aggressively. where they have where they had engaged in violent and intimidating behaviour against people, because their anti simply because they themselves are anti semites in their targeting jewish americans. With that with this behaviour is not acceptable in the united states to behave in this way and we ll have to. We have to reestablish this line where there is a difference between peaceful protest and what and what the left delicately likes to refer to as direct action. Direct action

extortion. Violence. Intimidation is against the law, but that doesn't mean anything unless the people who are obliged to enforce the law do their jobs, What's the line between intimidating behaviour and free speech While the line between there's a cup eliza mean them at the main line. Is incitement nephew incite people to commit crimes of violence that has never had protection under the first amendment. The question is whether the verbal intimidation has the effect of preventing. somebody from enjoying their their federal rights. So, for example,

one thing you want to yell at somebody that you know. Oh you jew. I don't like you because you're a jew this, that's unfortunately, you know I mean it is fortunate that that's not against the law. It's unfortunate that people engage in that kind of behavior, but that in the united states you can Can do that, but if you say to somebody you know, if you go, into that synagogue. I'm gonna blow it up. That's that you'd not you're, not allowed to do that. That's a crime! That's like you're telling people they can't enjoy their right to worship which the constitution guarantees them. So if you engage in that kind of behaviour to intimidate somebody, What of doing the things that they are allowed to do under or with given what their federal rights are? That's a crime there's all kinds of crimes rich, if you think about it that are committed very bali, and they are crimes because they carry with them the air

of intimidation and potential threats of force. I mean the crime of extortion, for example you don't have a first amendment right to show up like I always the x boy always uses look abroad, see with the baseball bat right if he shows up at your door. Wrapping that baseball bat and says you know when you gotta court of tomorrow, you better tell the truth. You know that's obstruction, that's not like. He he's peace engaging in his first amendment rights. Yet so let me do a brief points. Was here to give a one plug for air passengers. Subscriptions that national you dot com your way around our meter pay all your way too. If you sign up again see about ninety percent fewer, especially the most annoying noxious, adds a bother you when you're trying to read andy's stuff, and your way if it was your boat to dig deeper into our community, to comment on articles and blog posts to be invited to this cause

with our writers, editors and other conservative newsman, A great deal all round doesn't cost you very much, and we really may try that committee to guilty into it a little bit We just need people to pay for a content not allow just just a little bit. So if you're, not paying already, please consider becoming a member of an hour plus enjoining tens of thousands of your fellow national review readers who has conscientiously already signed up so anti. Let's, let's hit some biden. Tromp stuff was gonna Biden. First, this would have been a much bigger story, thorpe within else. It was happening in the world, but we had this suspicious check. Two hundred thousand dollars from Jim bind Joe Biden we know brought. This is this? Will brothers do right right? Any I'm sure your your you're bro is says written written many such a six figure checks

it to you over the years. Maybe you know that that's gone wrong on jets games or whatever it is, but anyway, Jim wrote this a check check to Joe and the buyers. Story, is well Joe, just gaze Jim alone. And this is just him paying it back and gosh Jim coma, pointed this out. Isn't that terrible calmer version as well isn't funny that Jim paid back this, well and on the very same day that we gotta talk? Thousand dollar payment from this outfit relying on him to use his influence. I forget exactly what what great business vista was buster to open up in terms of of gems, or influence, but that's what they're accounting on and the two hundred thousand hours goes goes immediately through through gems pocket indigo. So what which we make of this anti well First of all, as you were giving that description, it occurred to me that I have four brothers and sisters. So if I was the Biden,

It would be so of two minds about this rich one is I understand the impulse to leap all over this because. What people are saying. All long is where, as you know, the press rights it this way to protect Biden does no one occasion that any of the money went directly to Biden has said that again and again I've been resistant to that because I think Biden is the business. So it's you know. I think it's a mistake to look at this as if as if the smoking gun is money? That goes into Biden, because I think the right way of looking at this scheme is that without Biden couldn't work in the first place, but

said, Biden did raise the anti by saying you know, wisdom, honey. What's the matter, Now there is the money, a joe there's, the money, and I actually think this is kind of a ass backwards way of investigating, because if you were, I mean it's: what congress is stuck with? Reckless, they don't have the same resources and they don't have the same end the gate of arsenal the prosecutors have. But you know I mean if I was investigating this case. I would have been neck deep in bank records. By now I would have had their backs. it's gone through every one of them and we'd, be you know, we'd be connecting the dots, so they are what they are doing instead. Is they find something that's

lawyer and they use that as the rationale for getting records. With respect to that particular transaction and if they find anything funky there than they dig a little bit war and the way you should really do an investigation like this is once you have a cholera basis to believe that you have a corrupt scheme, then you get everybody's bank records and use you, don't you don't do this incremental. Well, we see a little bit so now we're going to dig a little bit more. That's not how you go about this, and so this is. This is the this is what we're left with, because the justice department which I've done this investigation, clearly hasn't here we are. What has it been? the guy's a war and with the republicans gettin in their own way in the house. It just seems like forever, but I think I want to say it's probably six weeks since hunter got indicted for the gun. You know says about right.

So tick tick haven't seen any haven't seen any tax charges haven't seen any money laundering, georgia's haven't seen any bible, bribe and statute of limitations continues to run. So the only game in town here with since its cleared the justice department, is not doing this investigation. In fact, you know the other thing that that's come up with the with the violence in the last few days. Is that apparently, did forty people according to senator grassley- came forward with some information or other about the Biden's and Joe Biden included.

The? U S, attorney, who was assigned by bill, bore Brady to look into the? U s attorney from Pittsburgh, who was assigned to vet all of the claims that were coming in including claims that we're coming from rudy to try to figure out which stuff was coming from the trunk campaign, which stuff was standing on its own. The they ve been very clear: that they tried to convey to weiss and wisest the lawyer whitehead running this case, leslie wolf that the information they were getting about slow, chaskey and the two million dollars in bribes that that did not come from rudy that that came from a you know. It was heard by an informant who the f b I regarded as credible. That doesn't necessarily means. Will Chaskey told him the truth, but it certainly said. Like he told them at least half the truth, because one of the things like he told them was that he put hunter Biden

erasmus board in order to bribe gel and to get and to get them investigation on em dropped and what are we? He did put him on the board and they did dropped the investigation so its clear that wine is not investigating this case and that's a complete sham and he spent he has then now five years, sabotaging it to the point where a lot of the crimes are just eviscerated by the statute of limitations. The only game in town is this congressional investigation and Biden. Has right to dismiss it by saying they can't show any money coming into me directly will now they have money coming into him directly weather move anyone. I don't know. I saw us gotta tromp cut couple things things we got are guilty. Please by various lawyers. What's was put put that often first to the most timely one, were recording on thursday morning. So

yesterday. Trump was at this fraud trial. There are a lot of fraud trials, but he was he was at one of them. I was with Michael Cohen there and the some fireworks first of all trump native ere. He I gotta give them credit? I e the guy's funny is like well there's this one guy sitting next to this other guy. You know this other person, they're they're. All there partisan haters and that the judge, puts them in the dark and says you know who who are you talking about and shrubs like? I was talking about you and and michael colony, of the witness here and it's just like now. You're talking about the cleric and fine you ten thousand dollars. They had and then there is the key. Examination of Michael cow, I knows ass to trump, ever tell you to invite the numbers he's like no, so I trust we want So there is a motion to dismiss message, says no and truck storms out apparently gasped in the courtroom.

the secret service guys running after I'm in trouble comes out does is a brief. You know one sentence statement where he puts his palm sit up straight out is like we just the case of the judge, judges, I recognize it and then and then storms out, so that that was one day in the life of this this trial. What what should we make of it? And where is this headed, but I can't get you can't get too whipped up at trump for pronouncing that they had won the trial. Since the judge for now that he had lost the trial with its authority, and rightly so. You don't look Two things can be true at the same time, even though they seem a little bit counter intuitive one could be that there could be a lot of evidence that trump inflated his assets the other could be that this trial is a complete debacle, it's a farce and he's being railroaded. I think both of those things can be true, and in this way

They both are true. I I thought the best part of of the proceedings either yesterday or the day before, was the trump lawyers were cross. Exam acting with alina harbour was examining cohen and front lawyers made a motion that the and the judges clerk stop rolling. They arise whilst during question, Now the non jury trial. So it's not like there conveying you know it's not like the judges miss behaving in a way that would influence a jury. The judges, the jury think alina ended up saying that it was very distracting for her. You know, ask questions of a witness with the judge, rome and the judge and the judges clark who this is like. The two were, buddhist courtroom arrangement, I've ever seen where the judges up their flanked by you know it's almost like your arguing to an appellate cork business. Three of them narrative is there with his two clerks and there you know they commit

all during the proceedings it. So I would think that would be very distracting and I must say you know too in fairness to trumps lawyers I gave a summation once where the gut, one of the jury is sitting in the back row on the right, one time I was talking was shaking his head. No, that is not. That is not a good situation. You know, I don't how that case came out. Okay, I don't know, but it's not you know, I mean it's, it's not fun. So anyway, it's the the cases of farce. I mean it's a complete. It's it's a complete travesty and the judges clown, he shouldn't be convincing with his clerks, while the proceedings are going on in when he gets called on it keeps saying this is how I do it well, yeah. You know. No one else does it that way they might be. You know a reason for that, and but the

The thing is this gag order is ridiculous. Now what trump said was that typical of trump, you know it was complete the over the top. There is no evidence that the clerk is the girl friend of chuck sugar who's been married for forty three years. Seventy three or ivy chief, but you know I mean he's allowed to say it and the thought that it's not again. This is a non jury trial. It's not like job trump is poised the jury pool by shooting off his bath right, in fact, he's just digging himself in deeper with the judge. So the judge shouldn't have gagged. Em and they he's got no business saying if the judges up there. Seemingly undermining their pretty present presentation in court with the clerk and and the judge Gary. Strong so that he can say anything about the clerk, that's ridiculous. It's a stupid, gag order and now,

Fine them twice he's fine them, the five brenda, ten grand and when he made trump testify. Yesterday, trump said, as you pointed out, that when he said that in others to people up their power. It was that he that he put it so next to each other rob you know under finding me or whatever he said and then Obviously, we are talking about the clark. The judge how to go on the stand. He said you first Chris As the lawyer said, he wasn't talking about the clerk, he was talking about cohn and then trump got up on the stand and said the same thing, but if the judge was going to find that he was talking about the clerk anyway, why put him on the stand? What's the point you know what's? Why do that? So The whole thing is ridiculous and then the other thing I guess was Collins said he hadn't that trump hadn't directly told them go inflate. My assets when there

obviously the lawyers are performing for the client right so when they got up to move to dismiss the case and the judge wouldn't dismiss it, the the thing. The judge gratuitously added was that there is enough evidence of fraud to fill up this court room. So this is, you know everybody knows how this case is gonna go it's only a question of how much of the two hundred and fifty million or more in discouragement is. Is he gonna order in the end and had is the appeal go but the key? is decided so on the walls are closing in front. We have more more that kind of common very once again because we ve these various lawyers indicted in. By fanny, well, astounding georgia, pleading guilty sidney, pow, the most most famous butter couple, others

Well so there's some people that think that it just means georgia cases is gaining momentum but sure too, that there are others who say well even with georgia case, goes nowhere and relies on this extravagant rico theory there at the still helps jack smith and make his journey six case because he can say look, they were everyone around them was lying and says they were lying you either. You know it'll. It may be of marginal helped smith, but I I I just think that while I should back up and say

it could be more material help to smith. If the people who are pleading guilty in the fulton county case are also cooperating with smith, so because they have evidence or they they were present for meetings that are of importance to smith's case of, for example, sidney powell was charged in the atlanta case only with her involvement with the scheme to access voter data in georgia, the head of which is called the hacking scheme. Even though I don't think he was involved personally in any in aiding hacking, but you don't. She also had a bunch of meetings with trump include.

In one in mid december of twenty twenty, where they talked about seizing the state of you know, voting equipment, and that's that's a matter. It's in the january sixth indictment. That smith did it's a matter of some importance to his case. It does not make a break, but it's you know if he can get if he can get sidney powell as a cooperative for him, that's that's, probably gonna advanced the bull and not the chief. I mean I don't know how much headway is a process are going to make with a witness whose defence, in a defamation cases that no one would take anything she said seriously to write that doesn't make are great to witness, but I think rich, the these pleas in the fulton county case just really show what we've discussed here a number of times,

and which is that she does. It have a rico case. I never said that she didn't have any case with what we discussed was that you could have indicted it like a bunch of smaller cases. Go she's got a bunch of smaller offences and, as we now have for guilty, please, but no one has pledged guilty to riga, no one is looking at a single day in prison, there's a lot a misdemeanor, please here, everybody's getting probation senses offer for what was pitched as you know, the conspiracy of the century, that had american democracy hanging by a thread. This is what you end up with a bunch of people. Pleading too, you know, to minors and non serious felonies with the guarantee of no prison sentences. She just height this thing and the media of course went along with it that it was a big rico an Any it's not a rico sheet,

and have an overarching conspiracy, because it's not a crime to try to reverse the result of an election said she didn't have a big crime try to go with rico figuring, no one understands it and I think the bottom line the one who doesn't understand it as well as if she thought she had a rico case and what you're seeing now is an to me. This is not the way is closing in on trump. As far as the war, closing in on trump stuff. I find the reporting this week that mark meadows has gotten immunity from from, smith and may be cooperating, and the report we're getting. We don't know how reliable this is, but the report

we're getting says, meadows told the investigators that he told trump from the beginning that there was no evidence of material fraud. So, to me, that's an important peace because smith's case, even though I don't think it's a particularly great case on january. Sixth, he I dont think you even gets in the ball park unless he can prove that truck knew what he was saying was false. So in that sense you know, meadows could advance the ball for Psmith a lot. So that to me is an important development, but these cases and in full in county. I think all that all the shows is that she did that fanny. Well, it's just completely overcharged this case and sold. It is certain that wasn't so that she could to pick trump as if he was a man.

thea dawn yeah. And lastly, what should we make of this immunity claim that trump is What I think the immunity claimed the trumpets filing his motions today mostly indictment, you know some of the more interesting some of them are particularly well done. I think we may be next week. Gum I'll have had a chance to go through them and we could talk in more detail about what exact claims he's making But, as we have discussed a number of times, rich trump stress Did you hear the most important thing to trump is delay? He needs to get this case pushed beyond election day, in the hope that the republicans when the election and they they dismissed the case right. That's what that's. What he's trying to accomplish

So what he needs is motions that will allow him to get this case up to the court of appeals and perhaps even to the supreme court, which would then get rid of the march fourth trial date that that has been imposed by tanya chuck and the judge at the urging of jack Psmith prosecutor and if we can get it up. the court of appeals, you know, maybe he can delay for wild. Maybe he can even get them to look at some of some legal theories, we raised questions about, but he you know the presumption, as I said before, the presumption in federal law is that you try if the case, and then the appeal comes after the case is over. So you have to do everything in the lower court first and then you get up to the court of appeals and but trump the the reason, the immunity

issue is interesting. Is all the immunity cases that I've looked at arm are basically appeals prior to trial, where the court of appeals and ultimately the supreme court, I heard the case prior to trial and what trump is arguing is that all of activities that he's been accused of by smith. come within the outer rim of his responsibilities as president. And that he is immune from criminal prosecution. For that now, the main, is relying on is not a criminal case. It's a civil case and he may not. prevail on this immunity, clay might but it's not. It is certainly not a frivolous claim, but more

Fourthly, I think in the here and now for a tribe is regardless of what the ultimate merits decision is it's a vehicle by which he can potentially get the case pushed off, march fourth date. Well, that's all the time we had this podcast has been produced by the incomparable Sarah should he thinks so one foolish thing and thank you and thanks for it. you remember a time when you thought someone you disagreed with, might actually be right in the new podcast. You might be right. Former tennessee governor bill, Haslam and fill brought his imposed, that question to guess like Paul ryan, Al Gore and Judy Woodruff comfort. The stories stay for the substance and expert insights into some of the most challenging issues facing the country, including affordable housing, crime and education? can t. You might be right and new podcast from the baker school the university of tennessee available wherever you get your pot.