Welcome to the Mccarthy report pot gas, where I rich Larry, discuss with Andy Mccarthy, the latest legal and now no security issues this week. What else, then, I fell shooting and the latest trump illegal drama if for some reason, you're not already following us on a streaming service by the way you can find it everywhere from spotify to itunes, and please give this podcast and Andy Mccarthy the glowing Andy It gushing fights our views they deserve on itunes and now without are: do I welcome to this very podcast through the miracle riverside another than anymore. Rachel oreo good Andy, you I'm ok, I think, when on well yeah well, if

if your voice is fully recovered, they had faith in mine and would be under it, but I want to if you're a family wedding. Over the weekend. My nephew got married in the wilds of new jersey, It happened to be my wife and my thirtys wedding anniversary. result was now or some celebrate. And then my older son was up for a man from used in with his wife and my granddaughter, whose now twenty so months old- I think so we Yesterday we got to get my twenty seven months old, granddaughter together my eight year old mom, so that was out of some gas also has great. So my favorite mccarthy, wedding story and maybe messing up but you're your brother, what was was late to the wedding cause. He is watching jets game which they lost honour,

upon return or something like that and he showed up and in your mom's like seasons, can't believe that many he was late and it's like yeah. They they lost on your turn. Let it happen That's my son's waiting in used in that right and just to show that that, the world, was starting to get out of joint at that point two days later, Donald trump was elected residents such as you haven't our rights a terrible that in nashville another one of these horrific, school shootings this time after a private school, re nine year old children shot and killed by this woman, who identified. Apparently, there's been back and forth about this as as and a twenty eight year old, apparently, I underline apparently because you never know with the third- reporting, a former student and drove up shot her way through the side door,

and then proceeded to, do our hellish business until two com to their great credit, showed up with diesel. Such an immediately ran to the sound of gunfire in and took her down the erika, feel like every time one of the Stories comes up and I feel the the same emotion other people feel about that. It does seem to happen more often now than it then it has before and I think there may be a lesson and therefore us, because I don't think this- materially more guns in the country. Then there were say you know five years ago, but I do think there may be more despondency and and mental disturbance in the country than there was five years ago. So maybe those two things are related, but I'd like

vienna I'd like to be in a social setting, or a societal construct where we could make connections like that, comfortably and instead of just seems to me that every time one of these awful things happened, people retreat to their usual scripts- and we we basically here the same thing over over again, which is which the very selective version of what happened in a way that conveyed such that you would, you would think you know, maybe the inspired themselves. You know, maybe That's what it's maybe that's, what the problem is you don't want to get into the sky you mean things that we need to get into, which is you know what what is going on in this country with

with depression and mental illness. And you know you wrote a great column, I don't remember. went up. I write it today may gone up yesterday about what we're doing to these young people foreignness society- and I I think that when these things happen and even when they don't happen, we it's a deal. after ve always wants to deal with root causes unless tate hope, like what the I don't mean to I me to laugh, goes this is awful, but unless they, unless they have a polluter aversion to an end fiery into the root cause that in front of us. We don't an examination of it, and I think this cries out for an inquiry. yeah I'm fine, with having an enquiry about the availability of guns and whether there are things we could do within the cap. Institution- and

Second, amendment two to be more secure: I have predispositions about that. I know you do. I know we have a lot of people at national review. Who do I'm open? having those predispositions challenged and to and to tweaking them. If we can make people more safe, without trip treading on other people's lives, but I don't I'm not going embrace a debate where I have to be been too reconsidering my view and challenging my predispositions, but we have closed box. Does that were not allowed to inquire into? I just don't think. That's it tolerable and it's not helpful yeah. So at some. Let's go to the go and legal drama I have this grand jury out there

It trumps said it brags given up on on the case but clearly, apparently, there is at least been a hiccup in the case. Had his testimony last week from Bob Castello You can tell us more about him and I believe that the grand jury did not meet you today has been working on mondays and and wednesdays, but scheduled to go to morrow or according on a tuesday no yeah well loved back up all over the grand jury. Did me yesterday, Tromp is wrong to the extent that he says that brag has given up. in the case now, I do think rich too cut to the chase and get to the question But you're, undoubtedly going to ask me, at the end of our discussion of this, there is less chance today, then there seem to be.

say monday of last week, that there would be an indictment in this case but that doesn't mean that brag has the means are percentage chances down, it doesn't mean the brag has given up on the case. So yesterday they did reconvene and they call David packer. Who is the believers publisher of of the national enquire and a very important witness in this whole escapade. To the extent that you could do that. The word important modifying anything in this thing is profit which is which is open to question. So, let's, let's back I guess maybe in and discuss why they would bring peck wherein to testify, and that goes The bob Castelo who you you ve just raised so It is a bit just as a matter of like soda inside baseball for our listeners in

grand jury presentation just like any kind of say a criminal or any kind of a trial in general. If you're the proponents of the case. Which means you're the side that has things to prove if you're, out to ask the jury or the grand jury to resolve the case. You don't want to be in the posture of having a catastrophe of a witness beetle last thing that the jury hears before they go to resolve the case. So bob Castelo was a terrible witness for the state last week, a pair they put him on. Because in new york they have this weird procedure where, at the end,

the grand jury presentation when their when their close to the point of indicting. They invite the subject of the investigation in to testify its a subpoena, because the person has a right not to be a witness against himself, but its it invitation, they extend if the person things but they can come in and answer the grand jury is questions and thereby talk them out of What are the wife would be? A likely indictment and also no one takes them up on tax. Stayed up on that invitation because, if they ve sent, you that invitation. That means that pretty much ready to indict and you can but most of the I'm, u can only help them. by coming in to testify, because then they get it. Sickly examine you before the trial starts and if you give them any evidence than that, that's helpful to them than that just contributes to there

so most of the time people say no, but what they so do in new york is safe. while the subject doesn't want to testify, but we recommend that you call this person as a witness, you know you could propose an alternative witness, and the trump team apparently proposed costello. and, in the meantime, castelo in a very poor, We made it clear to the district attorney's office. but he was ready, willing and able to testify and supplied them with about three hundred ages of documents, including lots of email involving Michael column in castelo used to he cohen's lawyer the kind of careful in the media coverage, I've noticed that they they call costello. collins, former legal adviser, like people

or insane his lawyer, because they there it's fuzzy exactly what the extent of this attorney client relationship was not sure Castello actually got paid. I you know, I think cohen? Who is given a lot of inconsistent statements about a lot of things has not been exactly consisted about what the relationship between him and castelo was, but we should. Don't for arguments like the castello was collins, lawyer at a certain point, but according the coastal and there hasn't been any refutation of this Cohen way. if his attorney client privilege in connection with costello, sometimes when he was doing the dance with the federal prosecutors about whether he was going to become a cooperate. witness against trump or not So in any event, costello

came in and offered himself up as a witness on behalf of trump by simply in order to tell the grand jury, what a scoundrel michael colonists, and of course, colony is essential to this, stormy Daniels escapade cause he's the one who did the payment and and gets reimburse that's the that's the heart of the case, so apparent castelo, went in last monday and spent three hours telling the grand jury, what a creep colonies and just in terms of how the hell trial, lawyers and prosecutors. Think about this rich, I would just say to two people that it's one thing To imagine in your mind what you have to do when you putting these cases together what it could be like if a wit, testifies in the trial and what the impact of that might be on the jury, and you have to plan for that. Its

a very different thing to see it happen. You know in the flesh like it did last monday, so it could be the Castelo yeah. It's it's not, it can be a revelation to the grand jury that that might collins has pretty significant credibility problems they called him as a witness, and they pointed out no doubt that he's been convicted multiple times on fraud and perjury counts. And obviously he was sky for about ten years. You know so he sir there's a limit to how how much Beating up on cohen's Chris ability hurts rags case, because at a certain point, you know jurors recognised at that, instead, our unsavory about Cohen or,

what made him attractive to trump and why he was. You know useful to trump for all those years, but at the time to have a guy like Castelo now just to tell people who Castelo is costello's a prominent new york, did he defence lawyer, who is also A highly experienced prosecutor was the chief of the middle division. For the: u s: attorney's office in the southern district of new york, I think he's a contemporary of rubies not when Rudy was the? U s attorney, but when Rudy was there was a prosecutor in the? U s thirties, office, so they go way back. Castello has represented, Rudy represented, come represented a lotta people in this trump orbit, but he's a very experienced guy who's done. A lot of grand jury work himself, and I imagine he was an effective witness.

Not only in carving into cohen Credibility in the end, the many rich veins of impeachment that are there, but also he supplied about three hundred pages, as I said, of documents to the to the to the manhattan district attorney's office, and apparently if he is to be believed that he we should remember again? grand jury proceedings a secret but Castello, one public righty, went on Tucker karlsson show afterwards when public about what happened in the and jury. So we don't have a transcript. We have to take his word for it that this is how it went, but what he says is that the district attorney his office cherry pick. Six of the three hundred documents that he or three hunter pages. A document study brought to them to ask him about and they

It completely jurassic aided it from whatever context it had in in connection with, transactions involving calling and address in point, according to cosette, probably more than once he turns, grand jury and said. You know these four. Secures or are cherry picking. These documents you're the grand jury. You can demand that they show you all three hundred pages, I can tell you is a prosecutor that is good things have happened where you're trying to like make a point witnesses accusing you in front of the jury of hiding the ball and nature. Thinking about the grand jury is. If you try to do that and as a witness a trial, the other side would object, and the judge tell the witness just answer the court, in the test, and now would be up to the other side on on cross examination, to redirect examination to bring all that stuff, but

the grand jury there's no judge. So if you, a very experienced guy. Who knows how this works. He could turn to the grand jury and make speeches that make the make the prosecutors look bad. So We don't know exactly what happened in there, but we do know that this happened on Monday. This is a grand jury that meets Monday, wednesday and thursday and brag F, Castelo came in cancelled the grand jury. For wednesday and then cancel. the grand jury session for thursday, so so what titular, on the merits is Castello offering. That undermines the brag case yeah see. This is this is a great question. This is what really something like this. What it comes down to is This is a case of into what were told of falsification of records

So, in the end, the crime is in the records and what a process kyoto is going to tell the and jury and, ultimately, would tell the trial jury jury if this awful case ever gets the trial. What it would tell. The jury is look we're not delay. We should all we know who Michael colonies. Just like you to we're, not appear here, telling you that Michael Cohen's, a great guy he's a liar, he's a convicted liar. We I ask you to convict somebody on his own robbery testimony. But we wiper. and out to you that every single thing he told you he's provable in a document so to the extent He said something that you'd have any you know documentary or witness backup for forget it pretend like it never happen, assume he's lying, but everything we presented him for. That's important in this case is backed up with a document, and then

would walk through these records. I mean, what's trump, going to say that there were a payment of a hundred and thirty thousand dollars. He he's pub we acknowledge that he paid Cohen back and stormy Daniels. First, about going on. Sixty minutes trump, apparently not consult, with one of his lawyers before he did. This said that she does. This we're gonna try to enforce our rights under the non disclosure agreement. This position is, he wasn't a party to the non disclosure agreement because he never signed it signed it form, but What's he gonna say that there was no payment of money that they there's no one hundred and thirty thousand dollars, and the thing is so why is the state relying on cons, testimony money for counts says: is he taught he consulted with trump the whole time that he was negotiating these ninety closure agreements and that when it

came time to pay him I decided to pay him and he says tromp was involved in this by making it look like ongoing legal fees for work done in twenty seventeen, what going to say: is he didn't do any work in twenty seventeen and this no documentary evidence that he did trumpet. I'm going to be able to say that you know there are at this x Y and z thing that culling did for him and That's why he was paid this money in it when he, seventeen and far is like collins, saying trump involved in these negotiations about the noise disclosure agreement? They have a recording of cohen, discussing tromp the non disclosure agreement in connection with Karen Macdougall, which happen,

at the same time that they do in the stormy, daniel stuff. So even though its at stormy dan trot trumps, not going to be able to say that He would never have talked to comment about this stuff They can prove that he talked account about at least one of these things and looked a trap is not notorious tourists lee parsimony aside it. You know the idea that, like a home thirty grand to his mother. He cuts entity, didn't know where it. What is it will be supplied to a number of people who ve done business with dropped over the years so that it That's one side of it, just the same, The other side is mine. Experience is juries, will cut prosecutors alatas slack about the credibility problems of accomplice, operating witnesses if the case Is serious and important so If you have a mafia case

or you have like, withers martyrs or you terrorism case Juries understand that thea, dawns and terrorist? Don't hang out with priests and rabbis. You know that the people that you, if you want to get these guys the people you have to call as witnesses or people who were enmeshed in their bad behavior. So, while They certainly listen to the testimony to that. The damage is a witnesses, credibility at this in time. If Europe, If you play it straight with a jury and you'd Pretend that just because a accomplice witnesses is now turning stay evidence and ensure witness that he's one of nature's nobleman. You have to put him on the stand as he is, which is, if he's a creep You don't pretend that he's not and if he's

It had perjury. You don't pretend that if he says something you can take it to the bank. You have to be strict with the jury then you can look them in the eye and in the end and say, look we're not asking you to convict base undisguised testimony, we're asking we he's necessary to tell the story but there is nothing that he says potent that isn't corroborated It's the way you have to play it, but that it's a serious case. This is not a serious case, but it wasn't what but what it cost. El saying this is in those other three hundred pages that brag is is missing are dismissing. That would be it besides teaching Collins credibility, which is obviously highly peaceable. What what what substantively is castelo offering that would would make a reasonable since in this case, really isn't that that cost dell pressed him very hard about whether he had anything on trump presents, pressed cohen, any such said colonies on record a number of times saying he never,

tromp do anything. Criminal he's never seen trump involved in anything criminal. What but who, like prior to cullen pleading guilty for for studies? we haven't gotten to see these documents, but the suggestion is that before and after at least the The non disclosure arrangement and this goes into rich- the non disclosure arrangement payments were in twenty seventeen. This document, every record that costello's about brought in goes into twenty eighteen and he's got common saying after all, this took place that he never saw trump do anything untoward or eagle manny. Also, you no point at the kohen, is on record a number of times saying that he paid stormy Daniels that that

didn't have anything to do with it that he did all the negotiations on his own. Then each this testimony one, he knew the southern desert is trying to make a case on trump and say: oh yeah. He was checking with trump all the time. So I think what he's trying to do. this point out to them. That he's been o o. Over the map on everything- and I think that you know the way these cases and up down is- The jury feels like if we acquit here, because we think the witness the government's witnesses terrible. We could let a murderer back out on the street to commit more murders. You know, they'll they'll give the prosecutors some slack. If the case is just awful and there's like it's your yours, their scratching your head about, like. Why is this a criminal case? Why is this a crime then jerry can feel good acquitting if there were quitting, because they think that you know the government presented them a crappy wit, and so I think that's what they're, where they're going with us said two other points.

that's one before we move on to the other trump legal troubles to point stemming from meat to press this past weekend, Joe tack, pina trumps lawyer. I think as great as far as I can tell. I good I mean yeah. He made the point well and you know they're trying to get them for logging, these expenses as legal expenses. But what? What? What You call em what else shit should even written down this hey man over an alleged affair, to keep port, are quiet because help me personally embarrassed if it came even those not true camacho who loves anything like that? Can cause acting in a legal capacities as want one he met from talk pina, I'm curious way make that and then freedom Veronica was immediately following and said you know, I always conservative say why this has never been that all campaign

as violation sorts, never been prosecuted nonsense, Michael current plead guilty to this be. a campaign finances payment being a campaign financed violation? So two things on that. I think TAT a an excellent defence lawyer. I think a run for shedding who also is involved in these cases excellent defence lawyer tromp has gotten lie, as a legal help in a lot of contacts that we ve seen, he's got excellent criminal defence lawyers. In this and anybody who doesn't think to the extent that alvin brag clue he has misgivings and is hesitant here about whether we actually wants to cross the rubicon or not. If you don't think that he's factoring in how effective these lawyers are gonna, be in front of new york. Juries that they've been practising in front their whole life you're kidding yourself these guys are excellent. Lawyers now on jos point about like what were they supposed to say:

If I'm the prosecutor, I simply say this in a it's a business records. What counts! eve oblique, could be more important than whether something is taxable or not taxable which comply. Which on on which hinge what you're also, Revenue is in your net gains and all that stuff right, so why they did here was they took something that was at night. taxable event used to say the repayment of a debt write Michael Cohen call and he laid out two hundred and three hundred and thirty thousand dollars and trump reimbursed him. That's on taxable event, as far as co this concern right and they have to documented the polar reason that the law requires, corporations to keep records and keep them in a way that Fourth right is because the state which is deriving its revenue,

who from tax obligations has to account for that accurately, so what they took did was they took something that was a non taxable event as to Cohen and they turned it into a taxable of that. Just to say these. They claimed that they were paying him legal fees through twenty. Don t when they actually had just reimburse the debt and the second thing about that is, they knew they were doing something dishonest because what they did when they told com they would pay em back. Is they double? hundred and thirty two two hundred and sixty before they started to pay em so that he wouldn't take attacks it from the way that they were structuring it. So, yes, wouldn't expect them in the in the books and records to write. You know, hush money for porn star, but but it would make a difference whether such was taxable or non taxable and the way they book there was designed to hide the fact that they were paying

they were reimbursing a debt rather than they try to make it like legitimate ongoing legal payment. So that's that's one! As far as priests point is concerned, this goes back to something we ve been talking That's since cohen plug guilty, which is I I find it interesting- that Pre pointed out that he played the kohen play guilty in the southern district of new york, where we're pray used to be the security, although he wasn't the? U s attorney during this investigation, What we said all along is cohen, plug key to these two care. Paying finance counts because he knew the southern district was to make a case on trump, and it was completely cost free for him, because At the same time he pledged to those camps. He pledged to six other counts. Involving fraud. So

sentencing guidelines were set by the fraud counts by can buy, pleading guilty to these additional minor campaign finance infractions it didn't effectively, saint guidelines at all. It made him a more attractive witness to the prosecutor of the southern district, who were try. To build a case on trump and who he was trying to sell himself as a cooperate or to now ultimate. They ended up, not signing em up, and that's that you know, that's the that's the dice that that common through you know he was hoping that he would convince the southern disk to give him a cooperation deal, he also operated with mauler. And ended up you know. Pleading the perjury in that investigation, but I think, eventually, the prosecutors did was they weighed the chance of being able to convict trump on this. Verses

all the baggage of common and they decided they Didn'T- have a good enough case on calling on trumped that it was worth I need a you know, signing cohen to a cooperation deal, but he did plea to those that's because they were trying to build a case and, as we said at the time the case, I dont think that cohen. Is guilty of campaign finance violations, because I dont think this was a campaign I dont think this was an incline campaign, expense, buddy If I'm wrong about that its easier to convict a contributor of Pain finance, then it is to convict the candidate. where's. The contributor is under strict rules, sections in terms of the amount that you can contribute whereas trump didn't have any ceiling, because, the candidate he the problem with trump

is your required everybody who contributes whether its two candidate himself or war? any other donor. You are required to book accurately. You know the campaign contribution, so you don't trump would be trump would would have problems with how this was booked, but the is to make a case against tromp. If your prosecutor, we been harder than to make a case against cohen. So, even if, if pre was right there cohen, legitimately plied guilty to campaign finance violations. That would necessarily mean they had a case on trump but fundamentally, I dont think what would Cohen did was. Camp in finance violations and I think it's obvious study he guilty to them, because he was trying to sell himself to the prosecutors yeah. Ok, great so, let's hit is couple their cases

the quick, so we have judge how a couple rulings, Lamar alive. Oh documents case trumps lawyer a corcoran has to testify and then he also and the general six kay said, a bunch of trump officials have to testify. So what I said the column I wrote about this. Is that barrel, how went out with a bang when I say she went out. barrel, how was the chief judge of the federal district court in washington in washington, unlike other districts, that has additional significance? The title of chief judge, usually chief judges, is prestigious position. and the reason that they all step aside how by the way, how is that retiring she's going senior she's, only sixty six

as the time rich, when I would have said she's she's already six, but now I say, she's only sixty cycle but he's not going senior she's, going back to being a regular district judge. Why, you're doing that. Well, does it petitions in the court's across the united states that the chief judge holds the position for a nun for five years she was, she was chief judge almost exactly seven years. I think that may be they the norm in nam in washington, but what they do is they see the position to the net judge and seniority to them before that become senior so that that judge gets to where the exalted title of chief judge so she stepped down, is chief judge so that James whose bar, who is next in seniority, could become the chief judge, and he is now the chief judge and, as the chief

Georgie's he's gonna be relevant to this case as well. But let me explain why the whole why do we care who the chief judges in the district of washington? It's not like? Being chief justice of the united states? It's not even being a judge on the dc circuit. What is the big deal about being the chief judge well in most district It's just an administrative set of responsibilities, but in the district colombia under them local rules that apply to that court and only that court, all good and jury matters, a ruled on by the chief judge of the district. So it's pits equally important, who the chief judge, it is in that court and that court is particularly import. Because political corruption cases can also in on the federal level, can offer always. The prosecutors can most always set up shop in. Why, washington

and know that it no exactly which judge is going to rule on any grand jury matters that come up so, for example, Bob mahler. Could set up his investigation in Virginia or could set up his investigation in any number of places where your activity took place, but instead He set up shop in washington because he knew that already grand jury issues that came up good barrel? How would be there to decide? barrel how, as we ve per as we previously discussed, was put on the bed, by president obama after sir for many years as pat ladys top aid on the Senate judiciary committee led He is about as sharp elbow but a partisan as there is and was on that committee, and she was his top lawyer so, that's how she ended up on the district court and she reliably ruled in favour of prosecutors

on virtually every single issue. That's come up against trump over last number of years that she was there. So. molly, could have set up shop in a number of places. He decided to set up shop in washington. Same thing with the new you know that- this department, if you were investigating trump projected through twenty twenty, you could set up shop and georgia arizona pennsylvania any place where to Twenty related stuff came up. They ve set up in washington. The morrow I'll go documents case, most of that happened in florida but the government is investigating it in washington. Why? Because any grand jury issues that come up. Barrel, how was going to be the one who decided them so they very comfortable with that arrangement? That array and ended last week when she stepped down and and judge bows burg took her place, but her

asked official acts were to issue these rules, things which found that trump could not assert attorney client privilege in connection with the our logo case because this. In her view, he is more likely than not to have committed grand jury obstruction and therefore the crime fraud section pearson attorney client potentiality and she made, therefore lawyer of trumps, Evan corcoran testify he had testify on friday. She ruled that he had to tat took just so people remember corcoran is when trot Has the fbi and the justice department come to tomorrow logo in june of last year? They give them and this is pursuant to a grand jury subpoena court.

Or in another trump lawyer, give the fbi and the justice department guy a package with thirty eight classified documents and tell him. These are the we don t much more classified that we have in the place they now, proclaim that trump declassified the documents and they say that after they give him a sworn statement which is going to the grand jury. That says after we ve done diligent search of mar a lago? These are the only classified documents in the place and then, of course, they go back, two months later and they find a hundred more. So that's the importance of corcoran corcoran talk to trump before he bade representations the grand jury. So what the a secure does want to ask was what we patients with trump and what they ve basic We told the reason corcoran testifying is Obviously, the governor it believes that he didn't lie I believe that he was just come.

Indicating what trump told him. So he's, a key witness now against drop, and Jeez decided that, because trap was gauged in a scheme to obstruct the group, jerry investigation corcoran had to testify. so that was one whirling than in the other rolling, as you just pointed out, there's all these trump officials who were top white house officials have trump top executive officials, She ruled that trunk can't assert executive privileged to prevent them from testify so that that was her. Last two big rulings for she went out. There's one are the one that she didn't get to, which now judge bows burg has, which is the claim by both trump and for vice president pants. The ten shouldn't have to testify before that in the prosecutors grand jury,

Trump is arguing that pen shouldn't be called because of executive privilege goes. He was a high ranking executive official Hence his arguing, as we discussed, that he was a high ranking legislative official, because the constitution made him, as vice president, the present The Senate, I think both of those clay are going to be rejected by judge both bird but will see how that plays out. So adding just a couple of minutes? We have left here. Real quick gives the one minute summation of where we are with the fulton county case, where trump has moved to squash the grand jury, report on his alleged election interference and then up. I'm gonna put you on the spot, so get prepared with an editor style exit question, but ok, county county judgment? Bernie has given fanny willis till may first to respond to try motion to quash the

and jury investigation that doesn't stop fanny from bringing an indictment between now and then, which would probably mood out trumps motion so out that does less than men in any. I think that's like that. One is that its course. I thought I was good and our time on the other world. Yes ex question percentage yards in your view, right now, there's trouble getting. I did for something one time present jobs. He gets invite and indicted twice for for two things. Percentage icy gets indicted three times two times once, I would say honestly of ten I'm at eleven, so you're a deadlock guarantee there something these wants. on two pretty the ten and on three points probably a five hour

art, saw it and just took to flush it out. I think he's definitely going to be charged by foreign county. I think that the same your council is going to charge a more marilla, go, I'm not so sure about january six, but you'll get one and I'm I'm less sure about bragg than I was last week. I would have said bragg was close to a ten last week because it looked like it was poised to go now down to five, so so brag is less likely than than those others. But that's, but europe, like fifty percent as he gets charge three times yet well ass they get charged by. While I guess that these special council could charge him in both January six, ten and moral go. I think marilla goes to higher chance. I think right now. I bet higher that special council charges and with january sixth than that brag charges, and with that

pony show he's got. Well, that's all the time we have this podcast produced by the incomparable. Sarah, surely thanks everyone for list. thank you and growth thanks, rich.