Welcome to the Mccarthy report, podcast ravage, Larry, discuss with Andy Mccarthy the latest legal. and national security issues this week. What else the latest on the morrow lotto fight? You are, of course, listening to a national podcast for some reason, not already following us and streaming service. You can find us everywhere respond. If I too, I please give this part captain any mccarthy the glowing any gushing fires our views they deserve on itunes. Now without further, HU, I welcome to this very podcast through the miracle of Zoom none other than an earth. I read your good anyhow anywhere you I we got like the agony, any excess ear, congratulations on judge that was great honor, but I team came up,

a small as it could come up in the in the biggest games of the season siren. I guess you're in first place from April twelfth until told her first yeah not anyone's counting, but I saw the e s p, traffic last night. One hundred and seventy day is apparently in the first place, and there are only two other teams that have been first place long, it's the rangers, I think had had a run and didn't make. It then are someone else. I forget. I'm sorry it's just so. You know this kind of a different kind of steam, different mats owner and laying out again while ranger good, I the braves just flat out random down yeah but they had when one game. Basically they couldn't do it. So You have to take. You had a lot to the braves their great tee, but it's really awful to like. If somebody asked me at the beginning of the year that you know, don't get bill when a hundred or one hundred wine

and yet the post season I wouldn't have imagined that we could get to the end and we have a bad taste in my mouth just the way you can you can do that out of the wildcard. It's been done done many times before I get get you fantastic starters, closer couple, hot hitters in luck, so still- I say, that's more in the cards for you, guys, probably them for the yankees starting pitching is rocky and we don't have a closer. But yet- the play one less series I take her when they grow and you got that guy with the bad, so here yeah all right. Some marla go for a lot of us. This has just been rumbling on and as a maybe a couple weeks ago, just got so convoluted, it's really hard to know how it had war, its form, the strategy. Don't you think I mean look at trump if anything

I think that is most accurate has been said about hermes he's an agent of chaos. He just its part, they stick. And the good aspects of it in the right. circumstances, but for the most part he's an agent of chaos spent what he has managed to do in this scenario. You know I've told people over the years and its hard to make this clear to people rich with whip without a concrete example. but just talking about it in the abstract when you're in litigation You only want one court dealing with a matter. At the time, because if you get multiple court starting to issue contradictory rulings, its complete chaos, the usual rule and the road is women the court is acting on something no one the court will touch it and trunk has some help package net to get three courts into this thing at the same time, which is why everybody's had men

so the the court that is acting in contradiction of its prior rulings here and listen tension is judge Eileen cannon. Could she She says you need a special master. Now she is pushing back a special master yeah water- it look it's it's convoluted, as you say, but it just to recap for people to trying to lay this out in a linear way. So people can understand. There is a terrorism sort of a straight line here and you can figure out what's happening, but this policy procedural ins and outs. Basically, judge cannon remember back when the moral I a search, happened on august eighth, again as we discussed it at the time, she donald war about four weeks, You know trunk delayed for weeks, asking for a special master, and then she delayed another to wait. I'm sorry trump waited two weeks

to ask one: and just so people. Remember again, I know we ve been through this before, but especial master would be someone who goes oliver's because through seized materials, to see if there's privileged information at the government prosecutors shouldn't, be able to say that basically the role, the justice department has an internal process that they would like to use that. But if you are you don't want the justice in deciding what the justice department gets to see. You'd rather have an independent person. Do it that's what especial master is their only supposed to be a point. In emergency situations. So simply by waiting two weeks to do, a truck should have basically been out of the box, after he waited two weeks than cannon waited two weeks to rule and then, uprising, Lee authorized a special master. when

look like. She really doesn't have jurisdiction under the law, the eleven circuit to order but she ordered one anyway. So here is one of the first fork in the road comes rich, she orders these special master on September fifth. The justice department immediately files unnoticed I appeal to the eleven circuit What the notice of appeal does is. It gives them thirty days to file their appeal, the file a notice first, the next starts that clock ticket soap he hears- and I guess I should explain this now- because these conflicting motives on the justice department explain a lot of what happens as we, forward. The just the four minutes torn because they think that judge, cannons ruling is come completely wrong that she has no jurisdiction to order special master

I bet she's wrong about five different ways. Having done so but what they are worried about is if they file a full appeal, a full blown appeal of this order. In me, eleven circuit They were then beholden to the eleven circuits. Setting a schedule. And what could happen in ordinary appellate litigation? Is that could be months of delay during the pendency of that one of the things the important thing, the real the important thing cannon did in her original order. On that subject, The was sheet she issued an injunction against that justice department using the classical documents in The criminal investigation which in essence, man, the honey. Red classified documents that were seized.

could not be used by investigators in an investigation of mishandling classified information under circumstances where there were fears that not only had this information fallen into the wrong hands letters it's been seen by people who should have seen it and many to find out who, but also some of its missing. They have reason to think there were still missing documents right so that narrow aspect of it was intolerable port. The justice department sewing think they prudently realize that Yet. The second is to get the eleven circuits attention so that they would rule on this quickly. They could we throw the whole thing cannon did in the circuits lap, so to underscore that they were trying to be cooperative, but at the same time this was what was really important, they filed a limited appeal. Ultimately,

where they said. Look, we disagree with all of this. We think she's totally wrong. What we are appealing is she shouldn't have given the classified documents to the special master review process absolutely shouldn't have told us that we can't use be clean. if I'd documents in all investigation, and they figured that- would really narrow it in a way that seemed reasonable, who there's only a hundred classified documents. and there's eleven thousand other documents, so think what the justice department is trying to do is say to the eleven circuit pay court of appeals. Here's a night fine. I thing where you can see that she's like wrong, eight ways to sunday and give us a quick ruler so that what they were thinking but the upshot of what they did was it I they would be in two different courts at the same time,

because since they weren't appealing part of the ruling that affected most of the eleven thousand documents? That meant the special master process was going to get going in the law. a court so do you like two tracks? The hundred documents were in front of the eleven circuit, and the other eleven thousand documents are still in the industry report and in connection with the district court, troops were quest. judge cannon who lets remind everyone, was appointed to the bench by president trump, in twenty twenty. Judge candid and I'm sorry former president trump suggests It's Senior judge in brooklyn radio free. as the special master, and The justice department agrees to that now here we get into,

another item, the better. I think, confuse thinking and miscalculation. Do you trump believed would be sympathetic to trap. or at least trumps lawyers thought that, which is why they recommended here was the reasoning. Rich degree Sign one of the quarter cage violence warrants in russia, gate stuff and because tron figures he's completely outraged at the fbi He figures that judge dearie would be completely outrage at the fbi to, and I I think this was a bad calculation because George theory is not happy that inside one of those warrants but at the same time, dear career is as old as

pro justice, deportment law and order guy, he was the. U s attorney in the east and district of new york before president reagan put him on the bench. And the whole reason there that chief, this roberts put him on the fine work. because he deemed to be a serious national social security law and order guy and the other thing I would have been thinking if I were representing trump instead, when Dearie was on the fire, a court, he had to live within all These restraints on classified information that trump flouted down in moral ago, so it to me, he would be the last person to be sympathetic, the trump, but they thought he would be sympathetic to drop. and what happened when cannon gave this still master Simon two dearie is: contrary to trumps protection dearie. is anything but favourable to try his position?

and that's where so, tromp is getting a bad time in. the eleven circuit Would he ultimately gets a bad timing? The eleventh circuit he gets a bad time in front of the judge theory. And now you know I I will get more into the details of it, but now he's trying to go to the supreme court because he's not happy with the service he's got anywhere else. See him cannon last thursday intervening without actually being asked. Yes, she said I mean she's been trump savior through this all think she should not have ordered. special master in the first place and be The interesting thing last week, which was she'll road to trumps. She rode into traps set rescue when theory was basically pummeling, trumps team and Did it only a few days after the eleven circuit issued its opinion,

basically walter and said that she didn't have jurisdiction to do any of us. So the first time we heard again from judge can and after the eleven circuit reviewer was into without being asked to do so too What's with you, dearie problem and just so people can understand what the theory problem was dearie I probably didn't, like reading maggie haven, say in the new york times that, when she used to cover the brooklyn courthouse gaiety was his reputation was he was the smallest I of all the judges in media in the place, so he basically started out by saying women a move, this name I'm gonna get through this. Here's. What we're gonna do there's eleven thousand documents about two hundred thousand pages we're gonna, get announced the trumps expense to digitize it and that's good

Take a while because of how many pages it is but here's what we're to do to move along as the Benny finishes, digitizing segments of it they're gonna, be turned over the trump every couple of dates and went on gets a batch. He supposed to serve as too documents he wants to say. He has some kind of privilege so rather than were trunk wants dear, is the lead the way and what dear. He says is when I gotta have delay when you get like a hundred pages for three hundred pages, you go through what you tell me, what you think is privileged and then we get the next batch they want to do that. He wants to wait till the and right and then take his time going through or two hundred thousand pages. in the meantime, the orioles. Well says you know his stuff he's been saying about declassifying? all these documents. What

back up for that. What evidence is there that declassified? The documents, And trumps lawyers go hammer, hammer her mother macros, they don't want to say he did it. They don't wanna say he didn't do it either under the circumstances, so dearly makes it clear that he's gonna expect trumps lawyers provide the evidence that he d classified documents. Now they probably get off the hook with that, because the eleven circuit, so slammed Joe cannon that the upshot of that ruling was that The classified documents were no longer going to be part of the special ass. The review so they probably had a good argument that, because, that point was moot. They shouldn't have needed to provide that evidence anymore, but the other thing that had a dearie agitated was terms, also running around saying that he that the f b I planted evidence So what do you really think? It is

I want to see your evidence, the f b I planted evidence so but what the vehicle for doing this is the justice department had to give trump, updated, listing everything that was seized from moral about this, which we call the search inventory and what dear he said, is You need to go through the inventory trump lawyers and tell me: is there anything that's not in there that should be in there. and more importantly, is there. you that's in there, wasn't actually add more logo, in other words, that you're saying somebody must have planted oriented after the fact, so drunk lawyers alike wall. We don't want to do that. And then the other thing is dearie, says now and also.

About this whole executive privilege thing where you want, as does the former president think you can assert executive privilege against the wishes of the current president against the executive branch I want an explanation. You theory on that, respect to every place that you assert executive privilege I wanted, explanation of vote. Are you saying I'm asserting executive privilege against all other. Entities like congress and courts etc outside the executive branch, or are you saying that you have? You can actually assert executive privilege against the executive branch, even though the pro which belongs to the executive branch. So troubles I want to do there And that's where it that's? Where it lay to the directive that dearie gave them the schedule that they were gonna, couldn't get you gonna go by and That was how things were gonna go until last thursday

when out of nowhere. judge canada, intervenes and says this whole business about job you know tromp having represent, what is evidence was declared suffocation, and what is evidence was planting evident? I didn't say he had to do that at this point. The only thing I said was the government: how to provide the documents and to make a long story short cannon is treating trump. I mean people will say an endless forces. This argument that Tromp later on, the court and she's leaning in trumps direction, another way of looking at it is she is treating trump as if he were a criminal defendant, because she thinks eventually he's gonna get charged and she doesn't think it's fair that he's in a position where he has to give information when, in fact, The justice department is investigating and may ultimately charge him.

giving information now will read down to his detriment later now most of us would say the answer to that. Quandary is a trump don't file, Lhasa, because if you file a lawsuit suit, you take on an obligation to provide information, but I think that Leah b. The conservative non sinister way of looking at this is that you know he thinks it's unfair and that he is, he should be regarded more as a criminal defended than a civil plaintiff. Even though these technical, your civil point, So anyway, she writes in and says he doesn't it to provide information. all he has to do is say, ease asserting executive privilege. He doesn't have to explain the assertion and this business about this rolling thing, I'm not doing so Think what should happen here. She says its trunk should get all the documents first and then he can take about three weeks and decide.

What do you want to assert privilege on an effective. This is too steering schedule which, by the way, dearie set his schedule according to what ten and told them in the first place, she says now. I think this needs to be pushed back. You know They said they had some trouble getting vendor who with digitize these two hundred thousand pages of documents. and the word that came out and originally was, tromp wanted uncle sam to have to put up half pay for all this and the this apartment said none are now. This is your visit nor the baby we don't want to be here. We don't think you should be able to do this. If you want it, you gotta pay, for and cannon did go along with the justice department on that. So what data then was they had found? inventors. The story was that they didn't trust. That truck would pay them. In the end,

I don't know if they were putting that out, because it was derogatory of trump or if it was if it was real, but in any event it took a little longer than they wanted to to line up. a vendor. I dont really believe the story cause the governments involved, the vendor knows it's gonna get paid one way or the other these guys want to make money right so but anyway, they did line up a bender so that part of it is is resolved. But what can did effectively rich was pushed this into mid december and that's only dearie sport, and that we have to remember that dearie, even though he's a judge in this instance, he's not functioning as a judge he's a special master whose assisting the real judging the case was judge can down in florida. So under cannon schedule. dearie wooden finish his work until mid too late december and at that point he makes recommendations to her.

and she doesn't put any timetable on herself in terms of when she would decided so this push everything off into twenty twenty three, and I think also in response to this addio J basically says to help with it. We're not doing are clever limited appeal were we're appealing the whole thing to say: you don't have jurisdiction and there's no executive privileges or they like to do that. Then I think they're trying to get that done through the back door. The problem is tat Clearly they can on ring the bell right, but the what they had in front of the eleven circuit. Already was a motion to lift the injunction pending consideration of the appeal, what they told the eleven circuit, the representation they made to the eleven circuit to get in the door is that appeal is only about the classified documents, so the confusion here and it's I completely understand wines confusing for people- is that The main argument they have here is that

and didn't have jurisdiction to do any of this but to get in the door quickly at the eleven circuit. They said even though we don't think she had jurisdiction to do any of this, we're only concentrating on the hundred but one hundred classified documents but the upshot of that, of course, is they convinced the eleven circuit that she didn't have jurisdiction, Then she didn't have jurisdiction to do any of this, so thing I think they want to accomplish is Get the eleven circuit too, to rule conclusively with me back to the hundred documents, which are the only things in front of the eleven circuit that, didn't have jurisdiction and then what they would do is go back to cannon and say men in and see that eleven circuit says you don't have jurisdiction. Now, cut the core aboard d special master process, So I think that with their plan as they can't really asked the eleven circuit,

to cancel out the whole, your council especial master process, because promise do they bound when they, when they filed the appeal that they were only deal with the classified documents so that that's the box. They put themselves in because they felt like. They felt like they have to do that, and I they were actually surprised by Hell. Conclusive the eleven circuits rejection of what canon did was, I think, if they had known they were going to get that kind of a response. They probably would have taken a chance at and gone after the whole thing, and so you're from transfer point It looks like he's. Gonna lose in the eleven circuit, so so now he's gone to clarence Thomas right, chauncey that things are going well from a judge. Dear anything are probably gonna go well the eleven circuit. so what do you do so He goes to justice, Thomas yesterday, with an emergency application. Saying

and this is this- is a classic audacious drop you right, the eleven circuit doesn't have jurisdiction to consider any of this, and to me it's a larry is because the whole thing is caused by the fact that Canada didn't have jurisdiction in the first place. The do any of this type once the leave. What can indeed inflation safely eleven circuit that didn't have jurisdiction to touch? What would tat ended so just so we'll let the spell- yeah, derogatory, stop that you know is coming from the media. Try did not go to justice thomas, because he figures he's got an end with justice. Thomas right, which is what you know That's it. Dark theme, that's coming out of the january six committee and along the coverage that were seeing January sex, trunk had to go to justice, thomas. If you want to try this, because, just as thomas is the eleventh circuit justice every

justice on the supreme court has certain circuit stuttered assigned to that justice in cases of emergency application. That has to be made basis cases in that circuit so like, for example, Sonia sotomayor is the second circuit justice its second circuits in new york if there is any emergency application that comes out of new york, you wouldn't immediately, make an application to the sort of my work and the way the law works under some circumstances, the circuit justice, if its clear enough, the circuit justice can just rule on it, but they customarily do. Is they for the man, to the entirety of the court. If they think it's anything that you know either. has some substance to it or for whatever reason the justice doesn't want to be in a position of deciding on his or her wrong,

they will do. Is they will refer? The matter to the entire cork we saw that a lot rich with the young. calvin litigation, a couple of times. I think things got like, for example, the new york litigation challenging, would govern a cool now had done when initially to justice, the my war, and then she referred to the whole court. So that's what they that's, what they typically do. So I think, under the circumstances, But what I would do this is so clearly wrong and we can get into why. I think, ordinarily, what justice thomas would do is just deny it were dismissed but he'll probably referred to the whole court, because I think it right that the whole court spoke with, one voice understand that he did it himself and then area to save what what I think will happen is the one circuit will rule that can

didn't have jurisdiction but won't get into the executive privilege issue? That's that's my project. At your prediction. Is that right from your knows? Well yet a well? First of all, I think we can dispense with the supreme court. That's the big story today I mean I've already heard about it. Like you know, fifteen from places because trunk got went to the supreme court. The Supreme court's gonna look at this and say we don't want any part of this, and we certainly don't one part of it when we have a ready made. Excuse to stay out of it and the ready made excuses. This is all firmly eleven circuit now these men to just department is already asking me eleven circuit for an expert. an appeal, I think, would the justice, thomas or the entirety, the supreme court will say is we're dismissing this for now. all the arguments you wanna make to us. You can go make them to the eleven syrup

and then, when the eleven circuit rules you can come back and try to appeal to us will look at it then, but at least they will have You don't ordinary process and will have a decision from the eleven circuit and weaken decide what to do so. At my prediction on actually actually is that even then the supreme court is gonna say they don't want any part of this, because by that point they'll say We appending criminal investigation and probably trump will not have been charged at that point. So why did they want to get involved in this if they don't have to especially if the whole mess here, is because, just the judge cannon under the law of the eleventh circuit, didn't have jurisdiction to do this in the first place, then- an eleven circuit ruling that she didn't have jurisdiction should be conclusive. There should be no reason for the supreme court of the body there, because it there's no point so I think

Is it a very unattractive litigation to get into in the first place, and I am very confident that done that day, I don't want to they don't have to do it and they won't want to do it, so I don't think they think they won't do it and then I think you, a prediction is dead on accurate, rich, I think gum precisely. it's not you don't look, I think the reason I think that they will reject the idea, that dumb cannon has no had no jurisdiction to do this. Instead baby essentially already said that in me- preliminary ruling that they gave it would be. It would be extraordinary for them. Having said that, to bite back on it especially when there is no number one, there's no reason for them to to contradict what they already said and number two. I think they get it pretty angry that the

first thing that judge cannon did after they ruled in a way that you know that. But you shouldn't have done this in the first place, but the first thing she did was unbidden she jumped in and basically countermanding special master, that she appointed at trumps recommendation who she should never pointed in the first place. I think they're gonna find that aggravating. I know why I would but I do think on me, young man, The thing the justice department is trying to accomplish here is they would like to get a ruling from the eleven circuit. The trunk doesn't have executive privilege and I think even though the eleven circuit may agree with that. I certainly agree with that. I think. What the court is gonna say. Is you no luck? we're saying she doesn't have jurisdiction so if she doesn't have jurisdiction and there's no reason for us to get into your mother de

intricacies of the litigation, including the the privilege, question, and the court. Even it feels strongly. And I feel pretty strongly about this- that a former president does. I don't think a former president should have executive privilege at all, but if you were soon for argument sacred before, president has some vestige of executive privilege? You can asserted against the executive branch. The privilege belongs to the executive branch not to talk, so I think the eleven circuit probably agrees with that, but Good cord is gonna. Wanna, say you? No luck! we want to see what document exactly? Are you asserting executive privilege and what you're precise argument that you haven't? These The kinds of things that you don't want to rule on the stuff in the abstract, especially if you don't have to I don't think they have to make this a matter of grand principle. They can say she doesn't have jurisdiction and

they can tell the justice department luck if disputes come up we'd now rule were saying what we say. From here on out? come up about executive privilege. Come back to us then, but come back to us on a concrete record where we can see exactly what documents he's. Sorry, privilege on and then we can look at it that way so here's a question rich. What happens? Let's assume that this happens on the schedule that the just department asked the eleven circuit to adopt what they. Less than their papers is basically It brief this on a very tight schedule. You know like they get their brief in. I think next in the next few days, and then trump would have to get his in and week or two and then the court. Would they We hear the case in mid november, which is by a pellet standards. That's pretty fast! So, let's say the alive.

Circuit, does what it did. The first on around, which is decided this rapid, quick reich. so you get to mid november or late november. Let's now, thanksgiving and below circuit rules and they say, cannon didn't have jurisdiction but we only have the classified documents in front of us So here's what the justice department quandary will be at that point,. they'll, have a ruling that says she didn't have jurisdiction but the eleven circuit can only affect the hundred documents. As for the eleven other eleven thousand, the justice, The programme will have two choices: bikini the goal to just judge cannon. At that point and say you don't love, the logic of the eleven circuits decision, is that you shouldn't have done this in the first place, we respectfully ask you to abort this whole experiment. Let's just end it The alternative is pie,

late november, Joe dearie will probably be through all of the documents and pray Apps be ready to make its rulings will beep or make his recommendations will be very close to that going and Justice department may figure number one. The only thing at issue here or the non classified documents do not unimportant, but they're not nearly as important as the best classified documents. The investigation jerry has already exhibited that he's favourable favorable to them. So they may not want to be seen as asking her in declaration to abort in situation, where he's probably gonna, make recommendations in their favour. and they may also think that after the eleven circuit slot down cannon again on what she's done here they make, better behaviour. her. What she won't do anything while in crazy. So I think that

The quandary the justice department have, if they get a ruling in say late november early december is Should we go back to cannon and ask her to abort war, Should we just sit tight and see what judge jury doesn't see, workers from their mind, My inclination would be to do the latter, but hence as we're sitting here for white. What is this? The third or fourth consecutive we're talking about this sordid thing? Who knows what friggin crazy thing will happen between now and then that may change their position? I mean the sitting and cycling. What did we get? We did skip skip one way, girl only had it lightly one week so any lasting. Before we had a few other things. and the time we have left so, how does all these others back and forth machinations and ruins the counter rulings. Has it effective What seems to me the ultimate most important question, which is whether he's gonna get indicted over this year does it. This is a great question. think richard goes back to something we talked about when,

This whole moral. Argo thing first erupted, which is, I think, this link There is the political versus the legal right. I am been convinced from the beginning. at the justice department. Really didn't wanna prosecute trump on the stuff thought it mainly wanted to get its documents back. I think I do I've been shown to be added he's partially wrong on that, because the justice department there are clearly people who work in this case, one who want to charge, sky And they are going at the the classified information very seriously, when, at the obstruction very seriously what I've always thought just like. politically, and I don't wanna say legally as much is knowing how the justice department war. maybe culturally,

I've always thought that, even if the justice department knew that it was still. There is a lot of problems. Was attended to charge, tramp tramp. we talk himself into getting george by continuing to go out and put everybody's honouring question. You know said the f b I planted evidence on me every time. He says something crazy like that He gives a stronger hand to the people inside the justice department, who was saying The only way we can correct the public record is to indict the sky and court what he did I met becomes a stronger argument. Every time he goes out accuses the month of wrongdoing, and then there s the other thing rich, which you're you're, as more well qualified to address than I am witches, I don't think the Democrats want to run against drop your hand I don't see how they run against them if they indicted you know, I think indicting him

actively take them off the field. In fact, what what do you think that because once these indicted he loses control over it. ability to to carry on a campaign like an ordinary canada. I mean it this couldn't outsource it to the lawyers and- and I imagine the campaign- Richie legal redress detained. Maybe we are Close, avoiding for your good classified information and obstruction or serious issues, and while I don't think they would detain him prior to trial, Could impose a bail order that didn't let him leave our model be would be he would be doing the Biden campaign. He would be campaigning from his basement, like you just like girl, just like your well at work at the last on right The reaction would be so I mean, I think, on the right and make the reaction more alot olympic charter,

on the sra on the trump right. I think that's true. on the other hand,. By the way he has behaved, trump has caused a lot of disclosure to be made about this case that wouldn't otherwise have been made, and I think what people are starting to see is. This was pretty serious business and it like a number of people who were well meaning and in trumps corner went down tomorrow- logo to save One- hey boss, this is like serious stuff. They they want their stuff back. You know the classified information you can have that no good. Just ass. He not only ignore them. The the reporting. The last two days is that he explicitly toll, lawyers of his

to make misrepresentations to the national archives, to the grand jury and to the justice department about how much stuff he still had in mar a lago, which means with every one of those disclosures and that this is why I think the lawyers of being pressed so hard now with every one of those disclosures, He's making the obstruction case stronger, mom An obstruction is something you know not only that the justice department, the court street, pretty seriously when you're talking about light whether somebody gets released on bail pending trial, One of the things courts want to know is how confident that can we be, evidence won't be destroyed and that witnesses won't be intimidated, so yeah. I know it seems inconceivable that that you don't. You could be in a situation where the question would be what a court, basically detained trunk. Trial. If he got it,

charge. would you say rich that in July. It was inconceivable that a search warrant would be issued for moral level, but that happened and all the stuff that we seen in the last two months would not have been predictable, but it happened so weary like totally uncharted territory The question here is what what do merrick garland and Joe Biden do, and you know Joe Biden or say this is all on garland. I don't have anything to do with it. That's a blunt you, you know what I'm I have to say on this family, I guess, but you don't. I think that want to run against them so bill, but I'd be a garlon will rely on the idea that, a bridge too far to indict former president, who might be the public and in the next election,

be a colorable reason not to do it, but I think the real reason will be This is like the best of all worlds. For the Democrats, because trump is very wounded by this I think it underscores what I've been san young. since january six, which is he can't win a national? Luckily, I mean He couldn't win a national action before all this happened. This makes it even worth form As far as I'm, seeing from the appalling he's, like the only republican, will lose its due to trot right, they are buying, but he could be nominated and for all the reasons that you just said like you know, people are going to be on fire over this. They already are. We had one one maniac who said that, after the after the search after it was discovered that he was hoarding classified information down there, yet people say he be nominated by acclamation because they search the residence for what people are worried about is not that he was holding

classified information down there, but that they had the temerity after a year of trying to get their stuff back to to finally take it from here. It just seems that the event item there's that spare with the children. of hilary which have talked about, but then also to have any form of detention. At a time when you know you can mug someone in new york city streets and be out the next day of this are the the thermonuclear and nuclear any say honestly, I say others will just be among the trump right, but the trump right spans and shrinks, and this would be the term private be taking. was market share of jury has in in reaction to this, so I dunno, I sort of think indicting. Him means you want to run against him, but while I dunno, I just don't see how he runs if they want him to win the nomination he's not going to win the nomination. If he gets indicted, I mean I just think that changes the eye

think he may not win the nomination anyway. I think people I keep open. People will come to their senses and whether its dissenters, or young, indian or somebody else will kill figure we can have. And the trump policies, without the the baggage of the above, her sona, and this is just too much for you know the the that'll be the rational calculation. Well, this could this. Could this current hardware could expedite it? But you don't look that if I If, if either you or I could figure out where this goes from here than we should, we should end pakistan- got money because roads, a strategy to a couple of other things one binds lawless student loan forgiveness has been widely acknowledged that that this thing We have major difficulties in court to say the least. if it ever got in the court and now I have to attempts to get it into court

from a guy who, I think, has some tax liability they wouldn't and from a handful of states so what's your which are taken unlikelihood it of the these, both being able to have standing While I'm happy to say rich because when we were in california a few days ago, I had the The unusual duration of being on it. Agreement with charlie on the issue, we talk about them, which was the f b. I am now go back to my default position of being emphatically with charlie on this, which, turkey's zone, he's written and spoken on. This are better than anyone. I've seen and its them It's a very highly unusual. situation in that I think everybody sees what the bottom line is, which is that what Biden did was utterly completely lawless and the challenge here is not

to persuade on their ultimate issue because was that's clear, but to get it the court united have a sufficient injury that a court learn to tame the soup and you don't. Especially by all the civil war Biden fans you, some of this stuff, that's been written and you would, that standing was an insuperable restriction on getting into court. It's not You know what I've done favour courts be impersonality about standing, Because the idea behind that is, when you have issues that are of national importance and that ought to be decided in the democratic process. We don't want them decided by the courts. So unless you can show that you're not objecting to bad policy. And let you have a unique conquered, damaging injury that you ve suffered, that abortion can address then those issue shouldn't be what they should be

in the body politic. But that doesn't mean that it's not hard to show an injury, that a court will find cognizant. and in this instance theirs two categories of injury work People have asserted standing the first one was the one that was filed by the prick pacific legal foundation on behalf of a taxpayer in indiana but there. Apparently people who fit the same category in about six different states and that it is that They already had debt forgiveness under another a government program that figure dad? If you go into certain kind, public service, which, of course the government decides what public services ripen. So, the idea is, if you go into public service, you're dead is forgiven. Those

people, because there were in that programme will automatically enrolled in Biden, debt forgiveness, the problem is under buttons. Forgiveness, unlikely government programme, in the state in those states. Debt forgiveness is a taxable event. so, they will sustain attacks penalty on the burdens program that they wouldn't had Biden. Not not done this so they have an injury. that you need to them. I thought that that was a very clever theory. I think it certainly works, but I wouldn't go up in a balloon over because I Biden can we begin tinker with the executive order. So those people are automatically enrolled in his debt forgiveness and if they are not, and then the tax penalty won't get triggered. Enabling standing, soil fighting, it will be able to get around that by just some clever drafting

On the other hand, there is sound, it's now that have filed pursuit and that's the second suit, and, unlike the other situation, the state, suitors a much more standard. Much more routine invocation of standing the issue, with that is the states service belongs so they're gonna sustained some financial loss by virtue of the programme that Pretty ordinary. way of getting standing, and I don't think it's one that Biden can write his way out of so I think the states will certainly be able to bring their suit and maybe the maybe the the taxpayers will to what I think The states will get into court. Finally, we had this really wonderful ruling the two hundred eight page decision from an bomber appointed judge on this key elements of the stacey abrams case against georgia, ship

It is argued that the election was stolen from her in two thousand and eighteen because of voter suppression. There's been all sorts of voter suppression since and some of the stuff fell away because in georgia, change this law and in thousand and nineteen and in some respects, but the these three things remaining are pretty central to her case and he just totally gave them that the back of his hand, saying, are repeatedly so where's. The voter harm answer repeatedly that being that the state has a legitimate interest in and trying to protect from duplicate registrations or people doesn't exist, registering etc, etc yeah. I think I do. I want to say two things about this routes: that dumb there aren't so much addressed to the legal niceties because it I think that the judge just wallet them on that stuff, but you know there there's the young ones,

because this that I dont think gets covered enough, particularly in the media, because the media's run by europe The media is run by progressives wanna see be seen- is like the young, the sailor the black people but in the meantime, the arguments that they make orange. something to black people you know I saw thing that ways in the coverage around all this stuff. Where- and a reporter. I admit this was on. This was all I think this was on fire, but it was on some. It was either on fox rooms on a right wing website, but where they went around and eight randomly ass. Black people, like have any trouble loading any trouble with like a requirement that you have to show identification or you have, and they were like you too.

Black people know how about you, don't think we get. You don't think we get I d etre and it was really I mean it's really insulting to them, and I just think that it's a shame that You know so many of these institutions and especially you, don't look I'm gonna. Get to this with me. it's a major league baseball in a second, but like you know, I mean these companies and institutions that have been captured by walk. progressive ism, if they're, making arguments that are absolutely insulting to the people who they who they purport to be championing and then I guess. The second thing I want to say is too: you know break things around to where we started standing our critics out there. Let's talk baseball, they the they got the also game down. georgia, because this was a racist

legislation and it turned out that what was seven hundred thousand more people voted. under the new system than under the old system without I may be, I may be low boiling it This not only didn't for didn't prevent people from voting If you look at the numbers, if facilitated people's ability to bulk he, yet you know that gonna be all store game move out of lana, which only hurt vendors and other people in atlanta. It didn't hurt the rest of the country until I based on a narrative. yeah. So are you prayer point? afghan reckon there say hey, you know what we know how to vote. As talking as on the map, can podcast monday we're talking about these signs of people put it up and you know where their houses were devastating for myers day. You know is if you, if, commentators numbered shoot. You right, don't you loot? I shoot

when people are portraying this as racist as as though the only people who would ever steal anything, are african american, like they're, they're, really they're, no white lowlifes in these two communities who would come and take stuff that can be worn off by the sign that you're right. There's this like deeply in building thread through through a lot of us. I just think gum that may be. Maybe that's the secret to work setting aside the right wherein Maybe it's maybe it's more gradual Well, maybe it is happening gradually and I'm just not cognisant of it, but I just think that dump you know this whoa progressive ism is capturing institutions and weakening the middle in america by doing that, at the Every time that the people that it words to be championing or story fall away from it because they don't buyer breath

We just have to hope that dynamic picks up see. That's all so, that's all the time you have this part gas will produce buddy comparable Sarah. Should he thanks to everyone for listening and thank you and thank church