Love it or leave. It is brought to you by presenting sponsored jura, a single mom. Scotch whisky made by the same tiny island communities since eighteen, ten, every At the end of november holiday lights go up and run throughout the island of jura from the whisky distillery down. It's one road ending at the general store, the jura with distillery contributed year to help with the lights up the entire holiday season, and be measured and alive for this tiny island community. That's very nice. Very nice eyeing? That's very nice. This! thus personal holiday traditions, thanksgiving, slash, hanukkah, slash exodus. Well, you see there I am only a small amount of oil and it ended up lasting eight knights and that gave that gave rise to hanukkah and it some not up. take a release, salient lien holiday in jewish tradition. But you know christmas got really big. Our really

popular it built up like a really big brown. It blew up. Yes, super popular, that's right, tommy, so christmases like yours, my song cloud, hanukkah, yeah, yeah honey goes like well, you know we want to get in and ass. He looked say people love this christmas think so you know Monica hired serve a brand consultant and the next thing you know hanukkah crushing, the point is jurors great the gray whisky. We love it. Things were not going to do this holiday season, but one thing you can continue to do is have whisky at home. to make the whole experience of this winter go down real smooth. You know That's right, start knocking out your holiday, give shopping now: gotta, jura, whisky, dotcom, slash, loved and use the code loved ten. to save ten dollars from now to the end of the year,

they say in scotland, slangy via which is gaelic or gallic or garlic not sure, and every version I say, I'm told I'm wrong four oh no they're, trying to let rudy talk in court, keep welcomes a lover or leave it back in the closet, a wet dream teaching causing that's all is by scott in toronto day and it was fantastic If you want to make a back in the closet, elect theme song,

whatever that means to you, please. let us add, leave it I'd crooked dotcom, that's leave it at cricket dot com, they ve been amazing. We ve got to find a way to share all of the back in the closet home stretch back the closet, elect theme, songs we had to share and people ask from got here for you to the show some housekeeping, the devil to register. To vote in georgia's runoff senate races is on december seventh, which is why dave, America is raising money for registered a vote. Fergie two dollars raised they'll be able to reach one new voter with materials they need to register by first class. Expedited mail you can head over to vote, see america dotcom, slash, register, gee, that's vote, save america, dot com, slash registered yea to donate, and if you to find more ways to get involved in georgia. You can sign up to a doctor, that will be sending you remote, volunteer opportunities and ways to support groups on the ground at the january fifth run off that will determine control of the Senate votes in amerika, tat come and finally, the hollow

here. You know what that means. Crooked holiday march is the season. We have some really great stuff from your favorite cricket pause, including garden show that somehow managed squirrel its way into the into the merged store, so check out some garden show merchandise. I don't even know how I got approved eyes from they didn't approve it and by popular demand, a deeply weird apron from cars in the kitchen on instagram, where I make them while preoccupies horrified lots up there at antiquated, dotcom slashed or check it out. later in the shall. We will be joined by Eric lander, guy, brantome and ronan pharaoh, but first she's, a comedian, actor filmmaker and caused of hysteria. Please welcome back here and deal high. John, how are you I'm? Ok, you know job loss knows Unloose rutulian, these faces melting. The coup attempt is ongoing. I'd rather

country be stronger than are. When's be dumber. I think that's to me is fundamentally the issue here. We are relying on the idiocy of our enemies as opposed to thee our of our allies and I think that's a troubling trend, because are smarter villains waiting in the wings. There will be a sequel. That is what I meant as format emotionally right now, I'm not the bastards get me down, but it's over see deeply troubling, not because of what it means for this election, which thankfully we won decisively but for what it means the fact that their won't like, if you only believe in democracy when you win, you don't really believe in democracy. You believe in power, and you like what democracy does for your power. It is like an outfit for power right if you don't actually to give up power. When you lose, you don't respect that as part of the game.

you don't really care about democracy. You want power in a accuracy suit. You want power, that's creasy shapes, but you don't want democracy. That's the real rub to me down there She was. How are you oh yeah, I see now. I see now ok our you look honestly that was on me because, quite frankly, the motion should have been banned. The question should be banned from the year. It should be dropped from the list of questions that you're even allowed to ask diatribes about power and super villains and sequels disciple christopher. No one is directing that's equal, that's par for the pockmarked course that we are on together. The question was,

How are you what I think you know what your mistake was and I do believe it is on you. I think you're right about that. It was me, you know what you've left out. I think legally during this did you have to say: how are you all things considered? You know you're not allowed to say how are you go to jail for that right? Now, that's a felony, I think I'll. Let you off with a warning for the first. I think I d way: I'm ok I'm out of a country's, so they can. They can't get me they can't get me right now. That's that's. You're still allowed yeah you're allowed to ask it here, but but Maybe you'd like to repeat just in case anyone lost the last part about the power and the suit cause. I definitely lost at the powers. The power super words get into it. Why don't we so we'll start out gunners got track. We like to start off with a joke everyone's gonna hate here it is the worst joke submitted to us

leave it by our writers this week. Are you ready? I'm excited and accent is eu. This in a story publish and vanity fair, a childhood friend of vodka trump said one of her least. Memories of a function was when she blamed a farce on a classmate, that's real, that is from the peace supposedly Ugh also dismissed reports of an accident during a field trip as fake poos. It felt about poetry slam where they that was in our thanks. Thanks thanks the set ups as punch lines is going to be a thing that we're not gonna get to the same extent with the next administration, like not that we're not gonna get the depth of that. I think that's rank with the violence yeah. I think that's right anchors right. You know, there's a m nor mcdonalds, so about the platonic ideal of a joke being where the set up and the punchline or the same item anyway. We have approach that many times rooted, giuliani face melted. Today you ever I like that. That is both a set up, an punchline and a dildo store. It made me think of that to the dildo story on very you know, but you did

quote nor mcdonald as if he was for co. That wish apps case. I have to say that was doing exactly what he said. The set up was the punchline nor mcdonald says not a reference you here every day in november of twenty twenty, I'm just saying, I have to say you have not once now but twice so cleanly eviscerated me like just like just like true fatal blow, and I just love. It makes me really happy there, just just debt stating heads and just by stating the facts? The question How are you you just they nor mcdonald, absolutely brutalizing me, I will say the norm and the reason I remember it is normal dollars, because his version of the joke and then I realized I didn't want to share the joke. The joke was jugs mean job was like of it and Julia roberts are getting a divorce because he's like love it and she is Julia roberts, like that's the joke

and their club, you know and you yet but its elegant. I get it there's that there's an elegant construction and John Burgess having fun here. just to friend having so much money, we're having siren friends having fun having so much on not eviscerate angel, not eviscerate, I will obviously it's too. It was, So I was earned for his fun with it. he's giving holiday coming out cover. Nineteen is back on every what's mine, but good news modernity, Their vaccine is ninety four point: five percent effective and can be stored in common household refrigerators divides them cook around, but I don't think that's a problem, madeira, did add, if you have roommates, you should label it right. what is it coming in? A container is coming in Madonna. I don't know what you're going to turn our pfizer. Are you going to? Are you going madonna pfizer, I'm interested in either? I don't know which one is ultimately going to be easier to get. Obviously the pfizer one is has to be stored at super called temperatures, and a part of me is if you have to keep,

coming refrigerated all the way to your arm. That seems easier to do so I worry about getting you Noah a version of the pfizer vaccine. That's a bit like you know, shrimp! That's been in the fridge, long. You don't I mean like I want. I don't want it. fishy smell in I wanted to be fresh yeah. You want a junkie batch you'd want to drinking, should the illness. Now I dont want one. There was blood, somebody's radiator and you're, not afraid right. I just want to make sure you are not afraid of taking the vaccine. Ok, no need I'm not afraid of taking the vaccine either in the words of a and of mine. I would just stick it in my neck. I need to get out of my house. stick it in my neck. I need to get out of my house due to my work. I want out no. I mean on the vaccine. Align euro actually talk to Eric landers scientist about this. In the point that he may, which is a good one, is it like? Even if there is some any red like everything we do for safety. Has some small amount of rest seatbelts occasionally hurt people write like like this thing we do that make all of us safer. They make us safer in our lives. Nothing is without a tiny element of

kennedy point. Of course we should all take the vaccine, Johan, two percent per annum, inasmuch as you They put it in your neck and the other thing is a friend of mine. We sing for remaining yorkers really nervous about taking and she goes over what, if ten years, like crazy side effects because they developed this thing so quickly and a scientist and of mine pointed out to me he was like or woody it's gonna, be worse the side effects of the vaccine or the side effects of covert in ten years. I do like figure poison, there's plenty. Afraid of without speculating. There's enough can, see that we should be We're not pathetically fears, I'm just not enough space, it was good. That was good. I felt that was a. U revisited me. That was a good you. That was a restoration of our two on. You got one more to go body that was that was ahead of you, but this is about senator chuck grasslands. Eighty seven years old is tested positive, recovered nineteen grassy plans to self isolate for a couple weeks and then either plans to spend christmas with his family or herman gay too much. I think,

That is allied half it's a lie, it's a while I was on the boy I was on the fence about it as an offence about it. We wish speedy recovery? You have final cut, they show it doesn't have to go in, you know, but see now the is the conversation about whether or not to include it and our revulsion at having heard it is entertaining right, What would nor mcdonald say about a moment like this? Is the real question you're out their norm weaken surplus consult are our guru. MR mcdonald, Stockton, mcdonald, backing doktor document dolly pardon was a major investor in the research that led to the Madonna vaccine. People underestimate dolly pardon, but even on the vaccine. She kept the publishing rights, which I think is pretty cool huge fan. fan of dolly huge fan of the publishing rights. Take

has taken a lot of pages out of her out of her work towards a fan of her chest. Her amusement park, her business practices. Surprisingly big, dolly, I know there was a joke and I wasn't supposed several opinions. No, I the of look, I loved. I pardon I love dolly barton. Meanwhile speaking of taylor bad news for pfizer. Their research was funded by taylor. Swift is now just redoing. The research on her own to keep the profits from going to school IRAN as a crazy. This its while it is crazy business yeah just put. It taylor recordings at my neck with the vaccine Every time you tell me that taylor swift, has published another box of text with regard to her masters, I am excited to read it. There is nothing! I look forward to more on instagram than a big chunky block of taylor, swift text, relating to the fucking mass

recordings. It is every time it is a plus. It is so good. I love the writing. I love the tone I the energy. I love every aspect of it. I am so excited it's like honestly taylor, swift instagram of text of her rebukes too, scooter braun having purchased her masters. That is my Retailers, swift, alum, you put those things they. Those to me are my favorite performance. I think in there great reforms is, but I love those. I love those blocks of tax. There's a delicious ever time. Would you say that they are worth hundred million dollars. Would you pay three hundred million dollars for them ass, the first volume I've got you in road and you and road and pull your hash. I'm gonna set a good deal. I meant to set up the deal must get those workers instrument. Let's go goes masters,

in a book in his book, arago obama referred to a girl, yet a crush on in college, as in a serial, bisexual, craziest part. Is it and out to be the actual goes to virginia wolf. That's it. I don't know why. I don't know why I like that. I do like them. You got me anytime, you gotta virginia wolf reference in something. It's virginia. You just mentioned celebrities. rock obama and virginia the alternatives here is some of the alternatives that I could have gone for ghosts. Bisexuals all right, tell me what you would Here are some other options. For ghost this expert wait, this whisper ethereal ethereal: no, He's got a rug for the official by some rather bomber, referred to having a crush on an a theory bisexual. I gendered this person as a girl, but I didn't mean to for the purposes of the joke. So I could have said craziest part is it got to be the actual ghost of walt whitman up your daddy. virginia was better turns.

To be the actual goes to us, her wild see it there's. No, I we were going to arrange, go in different directions. Like are you gonna do casper? I wouldn't do Angelo goes. No. I'm really quite limited to the first google result for famous by sexual in history. Ok, ok and I come the list of famous bisexuals in history and the ones jumped out at me in kommeni terms? Were virginia wolf walt whitman? an oscar wilde: said. The ed you know I felt virginia wolfe was the was the funniest for some reason that we should probably move on what would norm? Do? That's the man now renal of that down, he would move probably move on gambling or something soon to be congressmen and handsome racist madison Catherine gave an interview about as ever to converge used to christianity, and I was like

so this isn't a date because madison he has risen, but I'm ok, Even just to this, though, this isn't a day, I mean a lot that one last I do there was. This is funny I was putting your personalizing coming back to the self. No I'm a fan, now we look. Here is a thing all right. It's vulgar if you think about it, and it's about a handsome race I do like idea that you know so often we still associate beauty with good and there is something about when you have some one beautiful, whose bad it's kind of a gun societal example to remind us that you know I mean it's really good point. On tuesday twitter unveiled their new feature, fleets which are kind of like facebook stories which

also like instagram stories, which are basically like snapshot stories which got popular five years ago, because they let you look like a dog anyway. The american president is attempting a coup. So now it's time for a second, we call canoes this week, creating something that implied by one trump followed up with. I won the election in all caps, but if you have, keep reminding people you're, the king, you won't be king for long and that is either a reference to shakespeare, game thrones or the lion king and I honestly don't remember which, after both of those, the sound effects, should be a guillotine again teen, just going down pushing yeah yeah for sure it'll cell, both of em at me, getting, I hope, you're taking notes on that Travis. Travis take some fucking noticing georgia secretary of state brad reference, burger sedley graham pressured into toss out legitimate bind votes in the states recount. This is accordingly, unethical. This was a private conversation, Brad Hampshire, some respect. This just harbour me

I wanna hear every time I hear his name. I feel my buckle clenched now I was just automatically clinches, I'm just like this guy's gonna be these guinness. These in there is gonna stay in with Mitch sons. It's just sucks again, the wayne county border canvasses deadlocked on tuesday, when its republican members refused to certify the results unless they emitted detroit, which is both majority black and the largest city in the state. After hours of anger, responses from residents, republicans relented vote to certify passed on reversing their initial votes. The republic and members of the board explained we wanted to disenfranchised black people in defiance about the constitution of basic human decency, but we didn't count and anyone getting mad at us then hours after theirs recertified trump called them, and they reversed course again now saying they no longer wanted to certify the results they had already certified. There is no legal way to do this in a certification will stand also. It is worth noting that the person now in charge of this legal fight is Rudy giuliani, which seems like a great plan just

as long as he can make sure that judges and secretly bore at do you think. As fast as you talk, I don't think I've had a fine in a really long time it just the talking now. Ok, because when you even I didn't understand any of that except for bore at, but I will say I was fascinated watching your mouth move. I was like gosh you can talk. Here is a vast he's like an auction needs he's like a knock you hearing. I know the people out there, listen to these podcast at one point, two speed one point for speed: one point: six speed some go faster and I d are you I dare you and I we are pumping out fast pace, hey how this Finally, as I live my life at one point, two speed: you not listen, John fast, you're not fast boarding through any this. Now it's is fast already slow down a little for me. I go out more than a dark

pace in a binding signal this week that he does not want to spend his presidency investigating trump. That is a job best left to the department this or, if we're lucky, a true crime podcast from the people who brought you the shrink next or I do love a good pod gas, so yet bits should probably be left on them. Justice, I'm very frustrated every time. The language about whether or not we hold people accountable for their crimes is put in terms of we should just move forward like the reason you prosecute crimes is so when we do move forward. It is in a society where people respect the rules by that that the fared hold Nixon accountable to failure to hold round, in accountable the fairy to hold george w bush accountable Now that now the potential very hold donald trump accountable. This has It leaves a mark. It leaves a pattern of incentives and acceptable behaviour and each time they I do think you draw a line from our failure to hold previous president's accountable to the fact that

is such a morass around. But the law even is as it prescribes behaviour by the president. Him or herself There is a whenever we have legal arguments now about what the present I can or cannot do. It is always couched in this kind of millions language about what some say some experts say even when there are really clear cut cases. So if we want to live in a society in which the president is accountable to the rule of law in which corruption is not all are rated in which our institutions can withstand the kind of pressure campaigns that Donald trump his ways to get them in this system. Disincentive eyes the kind of behaviour we ve seen over the past four years. If I want to move forward into a world like that, the only way we can do it. If we go back and make sure we understood what happened and hold the people accountable, and if the fear, which is what one of the one of the pieces said, the fear is that these kinds of investigations will be divisive. Well, what are we asked the question? What do you do if the truth,

divisive. Do you ignore the truth? Or do you tell the truth until it stops being divisive? If you don't tell the truth, because a bunch of people, no law, your view, the truth as something nonpartisan? If you don't tell the truth, because there's a whole media and propaganda apparatus that denies reality you're surrendering to the divisiveness you contributing to the divisiveness, if you don't fight it by telling the truth about what donald trump did consider, and I really hope we don't do that. And I you know when I interviewed item schiff. We talked about this, this incredible pressure that would exist and move forward. He seem pretty committed to the full that for the sake of moving forward, we need to make sure we understand what happened, and so I hope that that happens, but on it is alarming to me. That's all there's three things like say to this number, one I'll knock on what number two. It's basically refer to my first point and number three is again like the isn't this also a lawyer to do isn't the whole thing with lawyers. I've never had a lawyer be like move forward.

Yours are generally like take your heels in stew. Take your position like: don't they like make three hundred dollars an hour to do that? Isn't that kind of the vibe with the whole justice system, The people that are in charge of telling us what the future is our whether people in psychic Everyone else is debating about the pass. It's the only stuff we can debate. The present is very, very small. Uk. a blink and your miss, and then it's the past. You know right spills, like were already in the past when, worse, even so that last thing, if your third area, the other thing you did, what do innocent is about fake news like its remembering the knife. I think about this. All the time is even the way that this election shook out and how many people still voted for four trump. It's like when you think about the fake news thing it's. Always existed, it's always existed, it's not a new phenomenon. It's just that this dissemination of it is new. This This is our new, like the new media aspect of it is new, but, like there's always been that element that has existed

Truth has always had a very subjective narrative behind it and facts. I mean even if you're making our committee would whatever it is. It's always going to be to some extent a cherry pick, the version of what that is, but we ve in that to the extreme now. So the question is ten: our country find a footing where we all believe the same. You know five points of how many people voted in election, how many people were standing outside cheering and rally like hard numbers? Can we get back to a place where we believe that collectively, as a nation, I think that's right, and I think that starts by being honest about the actual crisis, and I think when we talk about being polarized, that is deeply misleading. When we talk about living in two different realities, that's deeply misleading. When we talk about being divided, that is deeply misleading and even right now vast majority, the country believes Joe Biden will be the next president states that he won the election, but a majority republicans dump in previous generations when independent started abandoning george w bush because

this failures in iraq and katrina independence abandoned w, but so did Republicans he actually started losing support among hooligans. That hasn't happened with donald trump. Richard Nixon. You know he had popular support among begins, but by the time he resigns that support has faded and republican party is punished by voters in the elections that follow. That didn't happen. This time we may have removed donald trump, but republicans picked up seats and held the senate. So to me, when I see all this, what I see is We do have a cosmopolitan majority in this country that does get its news from a diverse range of of sites, including progressives who yes get their news from left, leaning, publications, but also cnn, We see in all the rest, and then you have this minority. That is fully.

developed in the right wing, fox news, facebook ecosystem, and that that group of people have slowly been shifting away from us. Like through plate, tectonics slowly being pulled by propaganda, these systems and so we had to figure out when we say how do we make sure we share a collective set, a fax? What what I think is, how do we solve? low information to disinformation pipeline? What do we do about this group of people that have basically inoculated themselves against reality, and how do we keep people from getting into that bubble? In the first place, do you solutions for that cause. I will say that, like when I go on those facebook rabbit holes which I am want to do and I'll go on all different kinds: conspiracy sites, whatever you name it I'll go and they are seductive. Even if I dont believe something I can look at it and be like this is a seductive pitch and I can see how of reasoning person could still fall down that

that rabbit hole or that belief system is actually going? I talked airliner about as well as what are some of the potential solutions to misinformation you need to think about. Misinformation and his information, you think about the creators you think about the platforms had spread and you think about the users. I think a lot of times out. We talk a lot about the creators, we talk about the platform, but we actually do you have a conversation about why so many people are interested in this stuff by so many people want information that makes them that confirms their biases so completely that doesn't challenge them, neither believe it's true in a wrong or jump. Here, whether its true or not, or no, its false and share in any way like what has happened that is allowed, so many people to find that intoxicating and not want information that challenges their point of view at all, never never smart to see it and everyone experienced at what do we do when people have put themselves in that kind of a bubble? It's a hard problem is going to be with us for indefinitely. We have, you know we're going to get rid of donald trump, but a big chunk of republican,

rejected democracy today. So you know where we won this election, but we're in trouble. I don't get it here. Let me end with a joke and finally acknowledge what I was like prophetic proof and finally, a new study found that thirty percent of americans say they are likely to attend a large gathering this holiday season. But too, if you count the icy you well, could have ended on the diary. Pardon thing problem high note: we can shift those in the current year ending on the death of the country with. Massive raging pandemic is we had this so that we can stick it up or sickness in earlier? If we want to end this programme, I do not regard jawed. I need a hog and that's cool lose here. India, What an absolute delight it's been to see you so good to see you. Thank you so much for doing as wherever you are. I hope. Where are you you know? Where aren't I is you know, I'm in england, that's cool it! That's cool!

Well, I hope you have a very nice thanksgiving, even though you're in a place that doesn't really market by dumb. no, it doesn't exist over there, it's not that their thats, not their thing and enjoy enjoy Ronan pharaoh's childhood home. I like how many times you said exactly that phrase: it'll stay with make us if it paints such aid. Like is this where you will be celebrating things having? Actually, this will be good for the audience paint that picture for the audience is, think will be ending on a high note. Maybe some of the fixed sends on the table. It's gonna be that's! Thank you. Karen It's gonna be a lovely time with ronin and romans mother and romans brother fletcher and his sister in law Gillian there, two kids and its Maybe a lovely thanksgiving they'll, be I'm turkey and mashed potatoes, some kind of string being I assume I may make a dessert, but only if I can create content as I do.

if I can, it will be dessert both to eat, but also for the gram. So if I can create a situation in which I can, I also have an apron, a new apron, a comedy apron. I would like to give you so I may make a dessert. So that's what we're going to do? It's going to be very lovely, I'm sad that I won't be able to see my parents who were in florida and who were at some point ring driving up to see my sister and my brother, in law and my nephew, but because cases are so high, I dont think that they should travel, not because they couldn't do that part of it safely. But when you're driving it's like what, if a car breaks down, what are some ngos, so they're not gonna make it some sad about that. So happy days being too parents and my sister and I seek and bennett but I'll, be here in connecticut making the best of it. Yeah happy happy thanksgiving to the love it what are your parents, names ran and robert fran friend and robert I love friend and robert. I'm immediately is left with them happy

Waiting for what will and doing over there you doing over there. What are you gonna? What are you gonna do for it's a lock down here, so I'm going to do you know probably a lot of staring at a wall, then I'll probably, ninety degrees and stare at black out curtain than I have that's brown. So that's a brown out curtains I'll turn again. And then I'm gonna, look at the weird painting on the wall. This is kind of you get. The mix you get. The mix of activity can be a lot of turning and staring over here. Ok geared you, everybody. Thank you! Happy pigs, giving you guys when we come back. It is time for a thanksgiving edition of the truly spread game with guy brantome hosting and me in ronin, once again answering travis questions. Pake, don't go anywhere more of love it or leave it coming up loved her leave. It has brought you by simply say: there's almost always arise and break ins during the holidays. Is why simply safe home security is having a huge holiday sale, thirty percent off and he simply say

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Edge inside of our relationship devastating consequences. Every time thanks Travis, and before we had to that which we have already recorded and was honestly a nightmare. I do want to take a moment to talk with running about a pc published in the new yorker. He publish an investigation into some malfeasance at the department of justice involving the cia and involves a whistle blower and threats by gina haswell. The current head of the cia is a fascinating story. Runnin. What X, finally, is the misconduct that this yo J whistleblower brought you? to start out. I just think it's important, even with everything going on in the world, to remember many of the most important reforms we ve seen of our government over our history have been because government whistleblowers came forward and were brave and said: hey, I see something bad happening on the inside and going back founding fathers. It's been enshrined principle of this country that we protect those people. There are protected ways for them to come forward and

this is an example of a veteran department of justice prosecutor, former marine, who served his kind for years and years and who did everything by the book came forward with something really shocking in protected women channels to inspect or generals within the government and what face in retaliation. For that, a really sweeping campaign trying to shut him up, usually costing him his career in public service. This was important cause of those larger reasons that we need whistleblowers and we gotta protect them and us important because of what he uncovered which to your question. This is addio, jane lawyer, whose stumbled into what he calls a vast criminal conspiracy seat, cia surveillance programme that was classic, at the highest level secrecy. The agency has that was being used to effect arrests in drug cases in domestic prosecutions and then in a scheme between the cia and the fbi that those agent

were lying about. Two prosecutor and to judges, and that also violet really basic principles right. We in u S, courts are supposed to be transparent. We are supposed to give fence attorneys. Accurate act, to information to. Let them discover the reasons why there are clients were arrested and in this case there were some pretty crazy lies going on up to and including the fbi telling process It appears that this information from the cia programme actually came from a bunch of him. Estimations that were totally made up at the fbi named after the pirates of the caribbean movies, so so based we there's a highly classifieds a programme for gathering information about drug running into the country. These yea doesn't want that information to be real, not just in open court, because they don't even want it to be revealed in a close. To judges based approach,

There is basically you either can participate in this cover up of where this information comes from, where you can, using information, Basically, the way that this is supposed to work. Jonathan is jonathan doors, the glass information procedures act allows for these situations right. There super national security, sensitive cia programmes at work. The cia. Dont think that this should be discussed in open court judge can- guarantee that this won't be discoverable, that the defence will be able to get at this. That this will have to be aired in open court, and you know I talked to her veteran prosecutors and what they said was if a court said Sorry, we can't protect this information. Then you just have to drop the charges. That's how its most work- and in this case you know what intelligence officials told me was. This was a super, seek surveillance programme, not just directed at drug runners that had national security ramifications. That was

no secret, in fact that they didn't even want to play by the rules and consult judges about this and so There was a system of lying about this that this lawyer uncovered, and so I mean this is not going after kingpin about prosecuting the lowest level, lois run the latter. These are people who are desperate. Taking on these jobs of bringing the drugs into the united states and the cia is providing information to the justice to power to use these prosecutions and a lot of these prosecutions at sea. Like are well what's happened, Are these prosecutions gonna be undone? What happens in these cases now that its public that the avid david submitted by the department of justice are not true. Yeah It is so this has ramifications on a couple of levels. One is, as you say, for the cases themselves. I've got a bunch of defense attorney saying you know this was a violation of our clients, rights to a fair trial. We were lied to and look what their options, if any, might be its common,

it because in these individual drug cases these are all low level, drug runners who were caught with bills of cocaine and they played guilt. But what is at stake here is a bigger violation of rights. Jonathan once you start writing undisclosed and not just undisclosed but covered up by lies information. into american courts as the foundation of prosecuting and imprisoning people. That's something that frightened a lot of legal experts that I talked to the extent and brazen. This of the lies, I think, is a reflection of just how hard it is to challenge the guy and on this sort of thing I mean, if you got emails from fbi agents who are sworn to tell the truth in these contexts telling prosecutors who were saying hey. This seems fishy. This scene like not a guy that was now on a routine coastguard patrol. This seems, like you guys, must have had precise gps information that you followed instead of saying tat, it came from a sensitive program. You know that we can only talk about classed by channels. They sent these elaborate

restoring saying you know this came from operation, wicked wench or operation calypso. You know, and- and here are the details of this fake operation, none of which existed they. They concocted a fake mexican crime. That they were supposedly going after all to defraud and deceive the courts in the argument of of this deal, J whistleblower. If you read it, they are really straitness person who's, trying to expose genuine wrong doing through the proper time What did intelligence officials do when they were confronted by this completely by the book ample of somebody using whistleblower protection to try to raise the alarm so this deal. J whistleblower mark Mcconnell did everything. The book. As you say, he went to an end, act or general hotline? He complained in this protected way. He was interviewed by inspector general investigators,

as this is going on. The cia gets very, very angry about this and we document this through hundreds of pages of documents and meetings that happen, and there is a pig, extreme. First of all, cover up effort, repeated efforts to delete evidence. Of this wrongdoing off of government systems and offer Mcconnell computer, and so he winds up in other these very extreme, like spy thriller like scenes where he's trying to physically print and hide copies of this material cause, he's convinced it's gonna get needed and indeed deletions, do happen, and you know he starts making these disclosures through these protected channels within the government and very quickly starts getting what numerous official said was a campaign waged against him by the cia and that manifested in all sorts of ways. He tried to stop repeated efforts to delete evidence. He, meanwhile, was getting excoriated by intelligence officials. There's a working level, operative,

on the civilian military task force, where a lot of this story plays out, who you know in the story for security reasons is an undercover cia operative, but we're just you know, open workspaces, he's shouting of one of the officials whom issued complaints about this. You know that cocksucker, if you wanted Fuck me in the ass without Lou I'd, say: let's go crazy series of quota. Does the family establishment lived, believes that on this fine biogas years, but you know everything it's an exciting zaga that that he goes through from outside readers perspective, but harrowing, obviously for his perspective after hence What are you going to do the movie rights just chill out you know ultimately culminates in this, going all the way to the top of the intelligence community in and he and others allege gina. Sport comes to this task. Force worries working in an explicitly set. As you know, there should be repercussions against this guy and indeed there. Repercussions. You know he was frozen

out of that assignment, marched unceremoniously out of his office here told to clear out his desk. Sudan frozen out of subsequent assignments that he was lined up for so he is, you know, nominally on deal J payroll but unable to secure an assignment anywhere, and this is a guy who has been an upstanding public servant for decades and that is a mild example. Jonathan of what happens to officials who issue complaints here we ve seen across the trump administration of people around the earlier whistleblower complaint on on ukraine were unceremoniously removed, demoted fired. How trump has really lashed out in his tweets and public remarks at both people who make public disclosures of this kind and those who complain within the government. This is an important thing that needs to be turned around if we want transparent An accountable governance sowerberry should check out the story. In some I was in new yorkers subscribe journalism. So, thank you, ronan for being here in this room

And always a pleasure to come one room, overseer charter, leave it such a measure, and when we come back, we will play d actually spent Don't go anywhere, love it or leave. It is more on the wet love it or leave it. Is brought you by noon, getting and shaped us, be about losing a specific amount of weight or a magic number on the scale is about building healthier habits and feeling better about yourself. A fitting into that favour pair of genes is your goal. Great, but there are many reasons you might want to practise self care and every person is different. What we're your non scale, health goals I want to run morn run greater distances. I would like, to not feel for all the time like I want a nine do that, which is right now, because I am eating, allow I'm pretty fucking board yeah me too. I'm

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calm, slash elevate! Eighty: what do you have to lose? Numa com? Slash, love it to start your trial. That's an oh, am dotcom, slash, love, it ever back thanksgiving already that combines two of marriages, favour pastimes, eating to the point of failure and telling, deeply misleading stories about the past, but we thought it would be nice to bring back yet another tradition here at lover or leave it to mark the occasion. So please welcome role. and vera for another edition of the truly spread game. I have no idea what you're doing here and as camille pointed out, the first time we played sneezing is not usually a symptom of covert nineteen. We have not even tried to beat that name and that's how it goes, but because road and I will be playing- we want to make sure that I was impartial. So we brought in a ringer as

hosted the game. You know him, you love him. Please welcome guy random, but you have to do before finally working just about, but I do not know how we need some kind of seven. These fanfare for sure we can plan is opposed. Ill as unfamiliar with the newly where game. As I was when you first maybe planet, you really get this. Do you really seems Beginning images, I have a lot of my mind. I don't know we gotta look you're very young. You didn't waste your youth watching television, that's what I'm! No one needs to hear. Rona very you'll tell me that you ve lived through the past twenty two thirty years- and you never saw the lady hold up the card that says in the box- not nice little lady who holds up the card that as in the black, is just the one she's a newly web gave information that has it went into the names. I guess ok, yeah. Look. I have been busy with important things like play. Audio aims, that's for when you think I was. I thought you might say.

I was a boy god, thank god. It was ended up self deprecating. I will say this: runnin does not theirs cultural gaps. I'll just say that I don't know things. There is some gaps denuding where game I dont did. You watch praises right when you were sick from home from school, no, ok, This is what I am talking about is what I'm talkin about, how much turner classic movies he's a hit no one. I was home from school and I was sick. I watch Ingmar Bergmann films like a nor our guy kick his off? I have no comeback. It's true but go ahead. Guy here is how it works at last. One of your question about the other that prison level I done their answer. You have to guess what they were down. Let's begin question for roaming: if don't let it could pick one side, one side dish for his thanksgiving there. What would it be? what counts it aside see. This is I'm talking about this. What I'm talking about? We were defined turkey.

and or hand as being your main rights, depending on where you live in this great country and then everything would be aside other than beverages or deserts divine from the sounds of his scribbling. How long the site is right? ro there with your answer. boring and say: mashed potatoes, gotta, oh god, class a closet choice. Now, let's be clear. John has written down mashed potatoes with skin Well, I was having a there's a chance. Your opponent, I submit to the court that there is no other appropriate way to eat mashed potatoes and if you don't, yourselves gold. The early two? Thousands? craftsmanship is about producing, like a sea fluffy palm pure No, not about look at me. I looked round and the skin is where the nutrients are. I read it on the internet. you're, getting enough nutrients on thanksgiving

right short of nice thing by the pressure of her lover hook up for years out of this situation. Those giving dinner has ended. It is deserved time what is groaning robbing first it actually, technical, because it depends on the sweet just let him right, but I have I have some things I need to say to catch my answer, but I think I know what the answer should be. The answer should be one of the classic deserves a note in the love of households. There is always a m chocolate putting pie. There was noodle cook, all that could be aside or a dessert or a solid foundation for a whole gap? That's true! That's you get! You can use. Google to fill in any missing bricks. Are you re run him? I'm ready, I mean to say I want as long as it's not the kind. That's too too sweet it should

He can't pie, I did a pumpkin pie, it could be. I have also scribbled out criminal lang after realizing that nobody has trebled ethics and sort of what we're dealing with here, but I did take on comply suit. Your kind of adjacent to the answer I would I couldn't have occupied a bit more savory, not doing great we're, not. I think, that's reasonable. My hoping getting to do the same. If you guys, with the operating aid, the police, you are exceedingly northern pronunciation of boycott and I just want to say you're wrong and you need to accept it it will cause? I said he can't yes because is correct. It well yeah, but he yet. Oh he talks like an emerald. Lord, I haven't I learned to speak and where I learned to speak, we say things like super marry a brothers. We say: piquant pie. We say vase we Don'T- I vas allowing lives a year are travis the question about my most recent new yorker p, o god, everybody please check

romans, peace and the new yorker came out just before the alike. And it is about an incredible story of a whistle blower in the cia, about some illegal prosecutions of low level drug runners using- Cia information that was kept secret from the court is a huge scandal and everybody to check it out here. Guy, yes, and that's the game for game everybody one or had the most points guiding only one pay attention, amateurs they wrote in one. I think I did when we think you and it can only be one we come back somebody gone because he be forever behaviour for good hey, don't go anywhere more of love or leave it coming up, love it or leave it, roger by nord stream, rack nord stream gift shop is open for delivery. Shop gives up to twenty five dollars in stocking stuff. Started ten dollars from brands. They will love stockings

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cyber monday you can still use it. God loves it brooklyn and for ten percent off an free shipping in the? U s anytime, so brooklyn and outcome from and we're back He is a geneticists director of the broad institute of mit and harvard and host of the podcast brave new planet. Please welcome Eric Landor. so good to have you here. Thank you so much a great to be her job and I just want to say I love the podcast and I hope everybody checks it out. It is a fascinating look into a bunch of really big scientific questions from miss him nation to climate change, but does it in a way that's unexpected and fascinating? So I really encouraging check it out. That's just my plug I'll keep log in it. That's gonna be part of it. thereabouts. It's a great blood, but in a way it's it's about worth in science and technology. It's about like really cool new techniques jeez that have amazing upsides, but if we don't make eyes choices. Good, really, leave us a lot worse off. So, like its tagline

as utopia or this stop here, it's up to us long time here why I was making this anyway, but because I was missing having like thoughtful people, passionate people being able to argue about a hard problems without yellow need each other novelty I agree on the facts. They agree on the goals and they d agree on the solutions in their willing to engage and like I guess I seen as much of that in my life- was for here are just say it, and so for me this was a bit of an antidote to take some of the most important kinds of things that we could be struggling with as society on this case coming out of science and technology, but I I think it's kind of a metaphor for a lot of other things and see if we can actually grapple with solutions So it's a small ray of hope in my world that we can do it and it was fun talking to people about all these

and seeing them willing to like even changed their minds, how's that never seen it for I've heard about it. I heard people change their minds about, never actual it's been done. I think it's a kind of thing. We have been done in lab tests, but it's never actually been fed in the wild wasn't eric. I want to start by asking about the pandemic because you know, as you said, the protest bout disturbing utopia, and it does seem as though, like we ve seen both equal measure in the past, basically weaker. So we have this terrible third way, which is an entirely preventable disease. Durban. On the other hand, we ve seen pfizer, announced see that's. Ninety percent effective than madeira announces its night. They gotta vaccine is ninety four point. Five percent effective and adviser says like the competitive, older brother Actually, ours is ninety five percent effective. Can you talk a little bit about this achievement, and I know that from your position, you ve had a lot of these conversations. You ve been in contact with people doing this work. What is it

say that they were able to get these two vaccines ready this quickly, I'm in paris scientific point of view, it's amazing, but what is not gloss over this. You know how our heads or exploding between the two different pieces of of what's going on, I mean I would describe the the scientific achievements as kind of this light. At the end tunnel, but it's a really long tunnel. It's real dangerous tunnel were kind of asking. How did we in this tunnel in the first place, and why are we here? And so it's holding all of those things simultaneously in our heads, because if we didn't have to be here, are you I am talking on november nineteen. So yesterday, the u s has a quarter of a million deaths. We had almost two thousand deaths just in the day and the number of people were new cases. Every day is creeping up to about two hundred thousand. This is much worse than we ve. Seen

four and that vaccines are amazing achievements, but is maybe maybe many months before it. There really rolled out in full. We have to hold these two things in our head simultaneously, that were in the midst of a terrible storm. That's gonna cause a lot more death and suffering, and yet, in like record time much less than a year, many different companies produced in iran, the clinical trials on vaccines and you think about it. The lands speed record for making a vaccine speed like four years often takes a lot longer than that and if you stop permitting using about like what happened scientifically, that makes that possible. It's pretty. Who were the two vaccines, the one from pfizer beyond tack and one from madeira. Both use the same approach in stead of the old fashioned way of mega disabled virus.

kill the virus and use that immunized people or make a protein from the virus that you use. No trick. They take a genetic instruction from the virus, genome wrap it up in a little limpid particle. Injected into in yourselves. Take it up and they read the instructions, what are called rna instructions and they make the proteins immunize you with a wise disability, occurs, because it's so fast, the chinese identified a virus sequence. Didn't two days, put it on the internet. Two days later, company, here were able to design the vexed They would like to make two weeks later. They could make small quantities of it. couple months later, they could start immunize in people and frank The swollen step is way for enough people to get disease in the placebo.

and the vaccine group to see, if you had a big effect it To imagine that the design step can get any faster. I think the design could get on. The other points to be spent up it's getting down, and then I taught by the old things is old fashioned. Those are happening too. There are a bunch of companies that have made the inactivated viruses a bunch of companies that make via is the carrion dna instructions, a bunch companies that made proteins like anything on the menu somebody is doing and often multiple somebody's and its being done and read out in an months. Why are we doing this? For many more things? I think that people are thinking right. That's were watching a scientific community which we have got to say who wanted this function, that we may that route we ve seen with regard to the pandemic, but scientifically, like people, have come together and figured out how to do things fast without compromising safety.

I'm impressed and I just want to make sure we don't lose that because the shores of meal I'm we need it. This is not the last pandemic. We see new outbreaks come out a very evident, though the rate of new outbreaks of new new web viruses and things like that, it's sort of doubling every five years and god forbid, there was a vile weapon So this is not a one off for me. The last big pandemic like this was a century ago. The next one is not going to be that far off, so you brought up this change and leadership that we're in the middle of seeing take place, even though the outgoing pot is not term relinquishing the guitar about everybody's with the programme. He can't exact. But, as you know- and I will only mention trump this once and I apologize for doing it even once, but After these announces about the vaccine came out from started a conspiracy about how this was meant to hurt his re election by not announcing it and my arm. reaction was I'm glad that, stay conspiracy. He chose because its pro vaccine right

the vaccine that you good. They tried to hurt me by not releasing this too good of a vaccine. What are you hoping to them? Are you? What are you looking to see in terms of public education right? Like you know, these back means are, are now being manufactured; hopefully, hopefully they continue to be proven, safe and effective and they begin being distributed. Obviously, people are gonna lie but success is about mass adoption and yet what are you hoping to see in the next few months to make sure we have as big a pool of people linked to take it as possible? Well, look I think most important thing is transparency, because we ve had so much distrust so much conspiracy, theory worm. Sorry, the president thought that the vaccine approval announcements were time in some political way, but you know it's pretty clear: the company's warrant, given the data until a couple days before they announced the way these trials work there kept secret by the data safety monitoring board, not revealed a company's another

gotta released it. But at this point now John, I think if we're gonna win, trust, it's gotta, be by transparency. Like you know my fantasy as this red it a may and everybody in the freak in writing with questions and say tell me about this vaccine There are some other things, they're gonna say are well, let's We tried it and forty thousand people, half of them got the vaccine and half of them got a placebo salt water, and we waited a bunch of months and like a hundred and sixty people who got the plus see bow, they got, fact didn't, have symptoms and, like eight people who got the vaccine, that's roughly what the numbers are, got, infected and got, symptoms. That's like twenty times lessons when people say why's that ninety five percent workers twenty times less people got infected so far, then the people who took the placebo, but then you got a lot of questions, like we'll get, but how does it do for older people? How does it do

for women, as was the man had is due for people of different races. That necessities. Health complications how long is this protection gonna last am I gonna have to do it again? Are there short term side effects? However, there are, but is it's? It's sort of you know aches and pains and flew like symptoms. It appears the mostly be might not get out for two days and stay home, but that seems like a small rise or their long term. While we are now yet because there has been long term, I think them all we can just say this stuff is totally comprehensible to the general public in the general public ask questions, and when we don't know answers, we ought to say we don't know the answer yet and hears. Why there's no data and you make up your mind- would like to take a vaccine that seems to have reduced the number of cases by twenty fold in the people who took it and seems not to so far have

side effects other than eggs and pains further. Two days after your vaccination You want to risk it otherwise, In the long run. It is a matter that enough people take it because that's what actually cuts the spread in the end is that a lot at pee both are immune, and so the virus when it tries to get transmitted to another that person's immune and a kind of exponentially die. That's how epidemics end, but there's a lot of self interest in this too, because even four people were not in the age groups, where europe much higher risk of dying you're still in the age groups where you could be worse, these long hollers, who have long run symptoms. You could still spread it to your grandparents. Are your parents or something but we gonna somehow rebuild trust and there's no better place right now to rebuild trust than around the vaccine. There's a lot of credit to go around the let everybody get credit or absolute,

if we cannot manage to do. That you know we're really in trouble trying to take on other conspiracies and things like that, because is one where we know a lot of stuff. We don't know everything and we can just admit that Gallagher tribe, wants to take credit the regulation warp speed and that's gonna get a bunch of tromp people to do just take the credit. Take the credit, cool and you're not worried at all about. You know. Six months from now, anybody had the are in a vaccine. Is gonna suddenly become zombie find some way I mean you know that that every movie, with a rapidly vaccine has about a year later produced a pre signal. in zombie population- and you think the odds of that are slim. Look, I'm the The answer is until your six to eight months out, you know you can't say things definitively, something that sciences is scientifically careful not to say what's gonna happen. Ten years from now, because you know you can't be absolutely certain, what you can't say is when people do things,

that there is no evidence of zombie vacation that has been identified. Hagen gets in you, don't know zombies coming out of stuff like this, but any vaccine could have a side effect some small number of people. There are very few truly perfect solutions in the world, but then again, seat belts are perfect. Either they help young awful lot and occasionally you know you get in a car crash and they don't help you all sorts of safety measures that make a tremendous amount sense could occasionally have a problem, and I think we're much better off saying that the upsides are very clear. serious downsides, haven't been found, certainly low probability, zombies and people are grown ups. They will make a decision and I think, when they think about infecting elderly parents ran parents when they think about you no risk of being one of the people was really serious disease or, frankly, when they just think about the fact that most cove it gets passed by

people who don't, even though their sick, because they're not symptomatic. That's why the virus is so insidious smarter than most viruses. It doesn't make most of the people sick who pass them on most people, make the right choice, and I am, I hope, enough of them make the right choice that are we don't lose lotta wives and that we also reach the point where the virus can spread very easily? But it's gonna be trust. The biggest thing. That is this thing with countries that have succeeded from countries that having succeeded in social cohesion countries with high measures, a social, cohesion have done much better from new zealand to China. I think it's a great time for us to get together. You know some social cohesion. I don't know what far right host you'd like to get on your podcast, where you can both get together and discussed the hatch lively, not locking not? I know that I knew about too hard pass

but back, but you type a look. One of those wondering you also talk about in the show is one of the obstacles to social cohesion and its misinformation. The pot gas goes into deep fix. Yes, but you also note in the show right that we weren't overrun by deep takes this election actually got some of the most damaging disinformation was run of the mill deceptively edited video. You talk about policy being slow down the one that I think that strikes me as whereat is you have Joe Biden in minnesota, saying hello Minnesota. They take out the word minnesota they put in the word florida and all of a sudden. He doesn't know where he is right. This thing, what really far donald trump share that video right that in require new technology ice? It seems to me that when we talk about deep fakes were worth, rate of the creators really afraid of platforms were actually freya consumers, people sharing things they there, no or false, don't know their false, you don't care that their false right right right? The every couple of months, mark zuckerberg in and add jack capitol hill, nay, they take their lashes and nothing really changes. What are Other solutions that you'd

about. You know. I recognise reopens voice in their eyes, talking about the potential for fines, purview right that if they public something that is that spreads like heinous, violent content or missing nation, that there's some kind of like you talk a little bit about some of the ways out of this sort of missing. She spread tat. They look. It's it's worth sorting out the different ways out that people think of examples. Woods was good, as people are trying to struggle with. How could we fix it? There are technical fixes then there's like regulatory fixes and economic fixes and that's a tank per second on on the technical question- goes because what you're talking about Nancy blowsy or Joe Biden getting splicing in florida and that a minnesota Joe Biden remark, those are you know what people sometimes called cheap fakes and it turns out that cheap fakes, rather than deep fakes work, really Well, because, like listeners you're, not that discriminating and platforms have no

trolls at all. That would stop even the most obvious cheap fakes, but you could stop things like that if you wanted to so, for example, make this up. The Joe Biden quote you're, not a soda. Well, that's on the web somewhere. So, somebody uploads hello, spliced florida. If there, was five. Second delay that they have on television if it searched really quickly over the web, and it said before I'm posting this I'm note, that the exact same hollow Minnesota thing has been splice tyranny you could see that goes in such a cheap, fake, thou, the platform, doing it. But if that, ability they probably could do it and of things got out of the world would come crashing down if it took five minutes for your tweet to get posted because it was checked to make sure that it hadn't actually splice than a cheap fate. It would.

Get the nancy pelosi thing in say: wait a second, that's already their real speak. So I think the question about the deep fakes is that at some point I hope working to push platforms to do this basic, simple. Checking that the thing that's going up. There was not some cheap fake, but I agree we're not do an idea. The defects bother me because that becomes a cat and mouse game. Given technology words can be hard to Oh, you know, like public comment in the progress made over the f got comment on net neutrality. The ministration administration wanted to repeal this policy of internet neutrality and they are twenty, million comments, unlike ninety, eight percent of them were just botz, but creative botz. There was moving words around and all that and shockingly the boy were the ones who had a deal

opinion than the real people and carried the day shocking. Isn't it I think the first order is we ought to fix the most obvious ones. Then we have to think about what are other measures and a red have been talks about like the shooting in the mosque in Christchurch museum- and he says what as videos of violent, slight bad shootings in that and you this? It they'll be a fine per view now I thought I really creative. So if its viewed by twenty people, there are platform, might not care about five thousand dollar fine per view if it's viewed by you know five million people. Well, that's twenty five billion dollars. you take care basically to know the platforms then say: will you can't do that you'll destroying their business and then all of a sudden like magic? They figure out, they figure at creative. All this on these things that were impossible. They can figure out if there's money on the line, what exactly it's not impossible to do things, and it's not even

possible to do things fast enough and then you get written incentive like there's some financial penalty. other things I think about, and I dont know if it's I d or not. We have of these unverified identities that are in the web, spread misinformation, arts and phony accounts and things like that, but we have this law that protects platforms from legal liability for hosts. One thought is maybe at least the united states. You get protected for legal liability if account is a verified account, but if it's an unverified, count and nobody has recourse to go against the person who posted this. Maybe it's a deep, fake porn video if somebody then the platform gets the liability now suddenly and how they might care a lot about figuring that stuff out. Now that I know- and you know that and in image, he serves a useful purpose in society and how

We balance. You know where some degree of anonymity is needed and protecting whistleblowers other things So I don't know, but I think what we try to do with a conversation, the pod, I think we ought to be doing all these problems is encouraging people to just think up solutions, because some of them will stick, and we certainly can't keep going where this much this information again we're we're not having a discussion about the aftermath of the election, but where this much disinformation me circulating and, of course, in that context I will acknowledge that a deal isn't all unverified fake accounts. We also have information spread quite effectively by accounts with verified names, but maybe we put that in another buckets some other way, so I mean real issue yeah, it's tough, but I about. The conversation is that I do think we, especially in politics in the

a lot of democratic in fighting about a wide, and some of these moderates go down and moderate district. Is it because left wing people talked about to fund the police to because moderates in do of campaigning, is above all of recrimination, and we should have the debate about what the best way for democrats to win, but it seems to me a lot of times what happens right now. Is people only debate the questions they like? and the only debate the people that they think will join them in the conversation. What do you do when there's this big problem of miss information is information and those people don't care about having a debate. If they wanted to have a real insincere debate, they wouldn't be spreading misinformation, so I do appreciate that in the show you you actually get into some of the solutions to this big kind of dark cloud that hangs over politics and all of these debates because That is the upstream mean I'd, mixing clouds and streams, but you get it we're upstream and in the cloud ass they both have water to go that water. They both have water right. Well, you know you're I've. I've humiliated myself in front of them.

one of the most cited. Scientists is a huge, embarrassing moment, but we're moving on. You know one thing you talk about in the show too. I just want to touch on this briefly: misinformation and the role it plays in climate, but you focused on on geo engineering, and you talk about a few specific ways in which we could fight climate change. There yo engineering. You just say what some of the options are and then I want to. I want to pick one to do that rather than take on climate change in its straits, and so I hope we can come back to it the real answer wise and taking on climate change directly, but I thought then interesting way into it. Was the bait that's going on the monthly some people in science. Out. Well of the earth is getting warmer and the earth is getting warmer than its because we get dioxide holding it in heat. Why do we just reflect some heat back out into space by putting up little soul? For that

I'd particles. So you just go around in planes in use spray. Sulphur dioxide particles are other kind of particles and there like tiny little mirrors and though they bounce back one per cent of the sun's rays and and cool off the earth. Sounds so's seductive and tempting its grey and an end. Of course you are. How could you not because you know you have spent two billion bucks- a europe which is a steel for the whole earth right for that kind of money and get a plane? It doesn't live on the pentagon. Let's do it I'm in exile in ok, but then the problem is, and so So there is a wonderful really smart physicist, Harvard was proposing this and he has a very good friend professor at oxford, who says you are parking matt? How

link lee barking. Lee mad is what he says: the problems. Of course, our once you put the particles up, you can't control where they go, so maybe they accumulate in some places and not in other places. There is good evidence to think that might be and it might change temperatures in different parts of the world. It will change rainfall in different parts of the who knows my cause? Hurricanes who's got the insurance policy for that liability. That's interesting raises questions like and you know it We start relying on those sulphur particles. Are there because it sort of holding off them climate change, temporarily, we kind of get addicted and he calls it like the sword of damocles. That is hanging over you cause if you ever stopped for two or four or five years forbid. There's a war or pandemic. Let's say, then: suddenly you get hit with all the accumulated

climate change. So we would only makes sense to use if you're really confident europe. two zero emissions, but maybe confident about that? And then I don't we're not confident about that. But then, finally, is it the case that if we had a solution like that people were opposed to taking action on climate change? Would you said to kind of say, there's no need to proceed right now, and so I ask the proponents of this Are you concerns that your proposed solution here is actually gonna, get used by climate change denier people who don't wanna, see climate change action, and he says I am absolutely certain skinny. Use that way, but I think we need because it and his friend thinks he's crazy and I also introduce more should not the present national academy and rushing prakash. The director of the

rise movement, and I dont know where to come down on these things. I think we're says something very wise in this discussion, which is if the problem is carbon dioxide emissions, how about we just solve the carbon dioxide emissions? Wouldn't that be yet and, of course it need not. This other Gosh is still alive discussion, but I think it's important to grapple with stuff like this and can we act

find a better way to grapple with the real problem of reducing carbon dioxide emissions as yet as we go into a new administration, I worry a lot that we might not get any consensus to make progress and I listened to the debates such as they were discussing climate change. I think we have to find some new ways to describe this, because the idea that addressing climate change is gonna, wreck the economy or gonna be impossible. I think everybody really deep down those there's like one solution. We figure out how to make renewable energy that cheaper than fossil fuels, and that's it science technology question. Everything else is a temporizing measure right. If we can actually make renewables cheaper than fossil fuels, then the market will do the rest because it becomes the economic solution and so really in the

The only way out is innovation, and we ve done this before so. Like I always point to, why do we have like a semiconductor industry and computers that stuff used to be ridiculous, Lee, expensive and the? U s department of defense pump tons of money into buying semi conductors when they were unbelievably expensive, to create a market for they created incentives, and then that gave rise to the? U s being like the economic leader, I know why we're not thinking about it this way, because I would think if one is a euro, pretty extreme fremont, it's here or not, you would say we you want to be in that position and government has done this before and why don't we just get our incentive straight? We got them backwards now, get him straightened out. We ve seen its work Solar energy, gotten, a lot cheaper. Let's finish the job, and oh, I don't hear any of that. I listen through that needed. You're, not nobody's really saying it's. The way out

and I don't want be pollyanna here either, but I do think there are solution. and we got a sum, our fine language that is gonna be understandable by people on all sides, but this is just the optimists than me get me out of this day, I'm pessimistic as you are a job here, but right now, I'm just feeling like why not try to push one option. That's hinted at in upon cows, which I think is worth considering as if we can get some of these island nations that are threatened by climate change. You know care abbas vanuatu and get those islands together and how and basically say, were put in the sulphur dioxide up there, whether you get or not arrogant, do it every year until you giants economies solved this problem, you No we're going to take care of this big. We have to survive. We need somebody. Just a second right now right according to last there's nothing stop any country right. How on earth from deciding they're, gonna, sell climate change or the rest of us. Yet, although, as more schmidt that the president of the national academy points out there

Could do that for a couple billion box in its very affordable? Somebody could shoot those lanes down even worse. She notes you can put up gases that accelerate climate change, so russia once they keep the arctic melting, so that you have about saying they do I not want to cast any aspersions on russia, but if they were Let's have the arctic open for navigation. Theirs gases that would counteract this stuff so so, Lee John it might or acquire international cooperation all right. Well, you know you tried to tell you guys. Do a utopian plays. I brought us back to a disturbing and plays then you brought us back. I think that's probably where we should leave it. Are you got the eye Eric laughed exact? We were eirik lander, they got so much. This was a great conversation that I guess his brave new planet. Everybody should check it out. Thank you, sir, when we come back let's in highness, don't go anywhere, love it or leave. It is more on the wet lovely

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because one way, infer that you do it, let it this is my friend deliberately georgia. I leave any unequal in west georgia and the little blue dot in a big way county. I'm still very happy that Joe Biden he's gonna be our next president is given a warm for declaring that I carry with me every night when I go to work in our local hospital where we are overwhelmed with cohabitation. So it's a bright and shining hope things you gotta be better, and I'm looking forward to working in front of my friend began things everything he got to have a good fight A john is rick from pittsburgh pennsylvania the high is after you're looking media inspired me to be the elections this year here in pittsburgh,

that thirteen, our data into a night in our day and is a lot of media crash after a kick my ass and then I woke up the some better news on Wednesday. So keep up the good work thanks. I love it mainly with Hannah and I am from phoenix arizona my highly of the weak? Well section work? overall at the beginning of obeyed. I lost my job. and during that time I can't figure out what actually do it will become a teacher though I am that a job as agencies aid, none allocating history through a bunch of demonstrators and it is come. My great destroy it, and it is also May I share my joy with a bunch of demonstrators They tell me that I'm like their favorite teacher and I get to listen, because I'm sure how they are every day to see me in the morning so and of being.

nothing in disguise. Thank you for everything you deal because everything collage early than on the weekend is my little pocket of joy. He thanked you for everything that you do. I hope you have a great rescuer leak. Mumbai. if you want to leave a message about something that gave you hope you can call us at three hundred and twenty three five hundred and twenty one, nine thousand four hundred and fifty five thank you to kiran deol Eric lander ronan farrow, guy brannaman. Everyone who called in there are forty five days until the georgia senate runoff go to vote safeamerica dot com to help have a great weekend, have a great thanksgiving don't get in there. Please and see you in December lovely it is a crooked media production it is written and produced by me, John love, it s a good here. As liaison burg, our head writer and the person whose gender reveal party started the fire travis harrowing joscelyn com. In television olenin peter miller. Are the writers are seizing. Producer is sidney rat bill. Lance is our editor and kyle segment. Is our sound engineer are themes on.

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