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sent in by Kim and fred, also known as their own, a shark tits. That's what they're non us! Ok We want to use a new song each week. If you want to make us one, send it to hey a cricket, dot com and maybe we'll use yours. You can also tweeted at me later in the show, will be joined by a sido when a vu from the new republic pod, save the people's drama caisson and we're going to hear from protests and listeners directly, but first, let's get into it. What a week so? Obviously this has been a very sad week for the country, but I did just want to take a moment to tell you what I've been thinking about before we get to interviews and voices from the protest, because just thinking through what we ve been seeing was useful for me- so you over the course of the past week in our country reeling from an unchecked pandemic and shut down on our economy erupted in protest in response murders of george floyd, Ahmad, Aubrey and brianna taylor and an endless catalogue of racist abuses in the justice system and incidents of unchecked police brutality and violence

and you know I feel, like the question- that's been our lot of people's minds is: how did we get here? How did we get to the point where peaceful protest are attacked by police from a parking part of the white house to make room for an improv authoritarian to take a picture in front of a church and peaceful just across the country or terrorize by militarized, unaccountable police forces. How did we get to the point where on marks soldiers stand guard at the nation's capital, lined up in front of the lincoln memorial young people shot with dangerous, so called non lethal bullets, pepper spray and tear gas fired into masses of human beings, marchers crowd and trap seniors shoved to the ground, video capturing the crack of their skulls and- and I think the truth is- that white, ignored, police brutality, or at least many didn't take it seriously, because they were conditioned to not care or to believe it was necessary and it would never come for them and I'm not saying all this to be self righteous, because I haven't lived. My life like this is the emerging.

I bet it is. It isn't always front of mind because our entire society is built to make sure for people like me for people who look like me, it doesn't need to be front of mind and not just police brutality, but the broader disregard for the humanity of black and brown people, and that is true of most of the mostly white people. Listening to this, that is true of you. Listening to this, it's not just about confronting a trump supporter at thanksgiving, deeper than that, and it's harder than that. I went to the protest on Saturday and I was inspired and I was glad I was there and glad to see most in masks, even as I to remain socially distant because the krona virus doesn't know. The difference between a mark hence injustice and a man a hat who wants to get her nails done and I saw how peaceful it was, and I saw the aftermath of police unleashed on peaceful protests in my neighborhood and the looting that followed a bunch of restaurants and small businesses, already hanging on by a thread were just able to reopen on my street and were destroyed, and that is safe genuinely sad and and I'm sorry,

the gay barristers at starbucks starbucks, that's close because ve been scattered to the wind. We don't know where they are. We hope they return, but any focus on destruction of property is a distraction from the destruction of lives. At a moment when acts of looting or vandalism are being exploited to tar a vast, peaceful movement by some of the worst voices, american politics. There is a genuine debate right now about how to channel this energy into real change, police reforms that are needed right now to stop violence, reducing the role and funding of police and, fundamentally re imagining the relationship between government and the governed, a broader conversation about injustice and opportunity. It's ok to be unsure you, I feel on and it's all heightened because we're in the midst of a pandemic, because so many the ordinary outlets for conversation and interaction and kindness have been restricted. And by the way, also putting the health of protesters at risk. I want you talk about, whether leah michel is racist or just she'd everyone in person. I want to talk about trump claim

he's a bunker inspector at the office I want to talk about white people posting a black square on instagram and then deleting it fifteen minutes later, because they got yelled at by black people on twitter at a california, pizza kitchen. I miss my friends do but being out they are going back out there sweet being with people, seeing how many people are out there right now and knowing that the just nationwide have spurred charges against some of the police officers responsible for murder, though we know that in the case of real taylor, that hasn't happened yet, and the fact that these protests have helped create, as a first step, a shared sense of what is broken, even as many of lashed out to maintain a grip on a kind of power slipping away. That is important and it's a reason for hope in a dark times. So I just wanted to share that. At the top of this episode. You're going to hear from the protest I recorded some, relations I had with people? I met a lisa producer, recorded a conversations that she and I also was glad to be able to talk to you ceuta and re about not only some of them.

forms that are needed right now, but the larger context for this movement and these protests and what should come next when we come back will be joined by a cedar whenever, from the new republic don't go anywhere, there's more of love it or leave it coming up, love it or leave it you by re con, whether you're working from home are working under fitness, you What are listening to you to be what you're listening to not what your roommate or listening to everyone needs a great pair of wireless hereabouts, but before you go dropping hundreds of dollars on a pair, you need to check out the wireless airbags from Can you already know rake on your about started about half the price of any other premium wireless, your boats in the market, and they sound just as amazing as other top audio brands? You know that, it was model the everyday e twenty five year. Buds are the best ones yet, with six hours of playtime, seamless, bluetooth, pairing more base and more compact design that gives you a nice noise isolating fit re cons. Why was your browser so conjugal perfect for conference calls or binging pocket?

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he has written for the new yorker slate and is a current staff writer at the new republic. Please welcome a sita when eva, hey, first of all, thanks were joining in. Having this conversation, I was struck by a piece you wrote that talked about collective amnesia that you seen in the coverage of these protests, and so I just want to ask if you could talk a bit about what you meant by that sure. So, in the early days of the floor protests and the apple S, you had this big discourse about whether the protests were being conducted in the way that was, I played productive for the the looting and vandalism you saw. Break breakout in some places was going to be destructive to efforts to get people to understand what was happening and why people were angry. It was going to overshadow the peaceful protest and so on. It was, to my mind, replay of the kind of discourse you see time and time again with these protests were initially. The reaction is various what a fluid and explosive

Montana is there's a lot of handling about it, but ultimately overtime, things get smoothed out. You have a more controlled series of protests and ip. In hindsight that while this was obviously always going to be a good thing, protesters regret. noble under very an ok like this is what happened in ferguson, I'm environment. I was working as an internet slates that august and I remember trying to fines, live streams and ends people on the ground tweeting about what is happening is it wasn't initially been covered but cable news media, but you know there was a lot of chaos in those early days. There was there was looting and vandalism. There was all this stuff. People have criticized about minneapolis protest of them too, but I think over time, all of the This would have been lost in our understanding interpretation of what happened then in very similar ways to how people sort of erase or allied the fact that the issue- the team movement, for instance,

There is a riot stone one that is very important in organizing that gathered that there were suffragettes who a radical ends in over engaged and proper discussion and none of those things ever really define movement as a whole would be hard pressed to think about a movement that was always pierre and everybody was. doing the right thing in the eyes of opinion, leaders from the gecko airs. always a lot of messing up to it and I think understanding what is happening now in response to the killing of george void in response to the years of instances of high profile? Please tell me if you really, One is we'll get at the fundamental dynamics of the movement here. I don't think you can. Let yourself be distracted by expressions of anger and anguish that that that might seem right to you now that in to three years and show people will sort of say, wasn't that definitive so because these protests

you're so vast, we ve seen a wide range of policies being advocated. There is obviously calls to fund the police there's target reforms that reduce police violence right now, there's adequacy in some talked about around serve targeting structural inequality in housing, education, the economy. Where do you hope the energy are. These protests is directed where, where do you think, is the most fruitful placed point, this increase? I'm out of adequacy that we're seeing portal two levels, I think on one level. Obviously, you have to talk structurally about policing. This country, whether there are small, What reforms that might make things a little bit better? You heard from president obama talk a little bit about that yesterday, but also there are ways in which we should sort of more fundamentally rethink. The role of policing in our society

Is it really right for us to have a particular institution that is the sort of catch all place? You go too. If you are dealing with a problem it should you be able to sort of down your phone and call in a person, who's gonna come into a situation with a gun. If somebody is costing you in central park of earth from your dog. As we saw the other week. I think that's a question more more people kind of asking are there other models for how we can solve the problems that we have to solve right now are the rules for in expanding our support for social workers and other kinds of professionals that that might be better suited to dealing with problems like addiction, if there are other ways in which we can bring in different sets of people to deal with such issues that that's one level

The other level is something people talked about for a long time. I mentioned in that piece. The kerner commission, after the riots in nineteen sixty seven in nineteen sixty eight in the wake of another series of riots, publishes a report that says: if you really want to get to the underlying causes of black anxiety and despair and crime, you really have to talk about funding education adequately. Desegregated, our schools, some people have better access to economic opportunity, big sweeping changes to address the fact that you have the populations country that's been.

The misery to repressed in every conceivable way, for you can save hundreds of years? You know that is the scale at which you have to think about addressing root causes, and so I think that, ultimately, you know you're going to see people talking about policing, but I think you're going to see the protest now compound conversations that are already being had in the democratic party about this scale, which Biden if he's elected, will have to deal with some pretty big problems is the conversation people were having with coronavirus. I guess it seems like forever ago now, but just a couple of weeks ago, it was Biden is talking about dealing more structurally with american healthcare inequities. Then he was talking about over the course of the primary. I think all of this is going to sort of compound that energy and that

interest in crafting a more expensive presidency. I think you can have more and more people call for a larger set of solutions to the problems we face. It. You see all these cause now by abolishing the please do funding we please and interaction. Is you know from people who that's enough? No, your contact them they're like what? What? What are you how you gonna manage like matters and car acts in this kind of thing, It's like a valid criticism, but there are all kinds of ways in which the police are sort of entrenched in people's lives and- and you know in some places, are just sort of doing strict patrols that like create situations in which This can happen and meanwhile we have it deeply under funded. resourced social services infrastructure in many, I think most of the country there's a balance to be struck and I think striking that balance means that you radically reduce the number of armed people you have in this country,

responding to basic problems, it's for a lot of people who are not familiar with the topic and are coming to the topic to fund the police sounds so radical india, when actually the policy is reform, the police, demilitarize, the police and focus the police actual armed secure relation garner safety officers are required for mental health interventions, addiction interventions, social welfare interventions as other conflict between people and parking lots over parking spaces, there's a whole host of other. sponsors that are possible. There are these. Truly you have this conversation over and over again. I think in democratic politics special over the past couple of years, where someone says something like abolish ice. You now and Everyone is sort of like well, that's nobody's gonna go for that. That's going to lose you! The suburbs is going to lose you this or that constituency, but then the response to that is well. What can we do like? What? How can we move in this direction will take some of the fundamental problems people are pointing out with that slogan? How do we take them seriously and get to it at a different set

isn't. So, in the wake of that, you have people say well, you know, let's reorganize, actually, let's, let's sort of like see if we can resign some of these functions, let's see if the organization or the agency needs as much money, etc. I think in the near term, that's what abolish the place de from the police probably does yeah. I think it probably pulls people to ask more fundamental questions than they might have been asking had people not sort of pushed for more morality. The position but we'll see. I don't think that Joe Biden is going to run on the fucking points. I don't expect that, but I do think that the energy from activists is probably going to inspire pretty good conversations and I look forward to them. ordinary than the pandemic is still here. The crisis set off by the pandemic is still here that if Biden is to win in november. He will be inheriting a set of problems as fast as any president in our lifetimes, maybe longer this unrest seems like these protests. This

uprising against brutality inequalities. He is not going anywhere the pandemics not going anywhere the economic dislocations like going anywhere. What would it take for Joe Biden right now to make you and make others who are pushing for a more progressive expansive more left response. What would it take for you to feel as though Joe Biden is answering this call? I think they question that's a big question, but also think there's a pretty easy serve answers and very eager hearing things from the campaign. Now that should be encouraging to progressive in certain ways on the way, friday of issues, I think that policing may well be the next issue where he sort of tries to offer the left something in the wake of these protests,

but the the the main things that I am looking to hear isn't really a particular policy solution to a specific problem. What I want to hear from Joe Biden is how he is going to reform american democracy so that those policies will actually pass early next year in the senate, so that they won't get struck down by supreme court. That donald trump is now established at all conservative majority on. I want to hear how the residents of DC are going to be offered up notation within the next year so that you can't have it president's just steam roll over them and try to control their city with an occupying force like these, are, I think, structural issues you know you heard some candidate talking about other campaign more than Joe Biden dead.

Frankly, you know, even though I was more supportive of Bernie sanders, but even here sort of didn't really give the basic fundamental structural changes. You would need to pass his policies sufficient attention and I think that's a problem that the Joe Biden has even more significantly so that that that the first thing I want to hear from Joe Biden that he is going to come in and recommends to whoever the Senate majority leader is, if it's still chuck Schumer when he takes office that the Democrats, if they have the majority, eliminate the filibuster, move to simple majority and start passing things with the majority of people in this country want and actually building a more responsive democracy? That's the only way he's going to get anything he wants to do done. So it's all well and good for him to say that he's moving left or this or that issue. But if you haven't done that, if you're not pushing for that, if you're not making a case to the american people for why those structural reforms have to happen, I think he's going to have a very hard time actually fulfilling the aspirations people have for his presidency.

I do think tied to that too, is something you ve talked about it, something that a lot of people are talking about right now, which is sort of our collective paint. Tolerance for the amount of in Is this emergency that we tolerate and that some of that is what allowed someone like donald trump to come in that that we look past a lot of cruelty? We look past a lot of injustice, all the time I've been to these protests and- in a way, you know you see the diversity of the city and I've been struck by, port along the way by people hugging their hearts, people coming out of their windows and also by the day, The city of the protests- you know we talk about what this country can ignore work. We tend to talk about what white people have been able to ignore or benefit from or like in terms of the lack of opportunity, the systemic oppression of people who did like them to such an extent that it became normal, became acceptable. How naive is it to look at these protests to see this?

of diverse young coalition. That's out on the streets in these cities and say this group of people. Does it want to go back to that? This group of people is an interested enigma, bring these problems anymore, that maybe there really is a deeper shift. I think it's definitely I think you see all the different kinds of people who are in the streets now. You know it's not just a small cadre of activists. It's it's a sort of broad assemblage of of people who make up the democratic coalition People who aren't really that engage with politics and coming together and saying that we can't stand for the way policing has been conducted in this country anymore and along with that, making it a broader set of demands. I think I think this is also sort of a lot of pent up energy about things that that extend beyond policing.

That is great heartening, especially for people who saw the under the sanders campaign were kind of dismayed by it and wondered where all the energy it was going to go well. This is where a lot of that energy I can kiss has gone. But ultimately, I think the onus is now on political leaders, elected officials, to sort of do something with other energy that will again sort of make it so that it matters. The majority of people are mad right now, we're not in the country where it matters that the majority of people are mad about american policing, climate change or healthcare doesn't like you, you can win the presidency without winning majority support of the electorate. Can when the Senate without getting majorities, in the electorate there are all these structures in place that make it so that, even if you have millions of people angry up about a particular situation, nothing will change unless you fundamentally reconstituted certain institutions so it's hard to see people mad about the policy issues and I

I sort of wish that there was also a kind of ad. If you want to call it protest, movement or or white, but also a kind of a set of demands from this crowd explicitly about reforming our institutions and ends making it But there are more systematically heard, and you know the filibuster is not an issue that is going to take. That gets people fire, not necessarily, but is like very, very important, and things like that are ultimately the key to what if this movement goes anywhere or whether it sort of falls by the wayside is another instance where millions of people are mad about something they got in the streets, but nothing really fundamentally changed with gun control. You know in the past couple of years is a huge example. It's also a mean you, don't you don't need to go to the national level, los angeles, new york These are cities where the popular majority is electing people who, sensibly agree, or at least have paid lip service to allow

These notions loggia desire to reform police to prevent police brutality, and yet there is a sort of anti democratic force in the cities and in a lot of times it feels it as if the young, the mayor, serve at the pleasure of the police unions, there's something at these protests it. So it makes sense that it would start on police brutality because it is such a stark example of an undemocratic force and a bunch of people. All of a sudden saying wait a second. We are charge young young one of my least favorite phrases in american politics is that this was not a partisan issue which inevitably is describing a lot of partisan issues. This is why Is that where it like genuinely pleasing these countries, not a partisan issue have democratic majority cities like minneapolis, like baltimore, where you have these abuses happen in part, because, as you say, leaders in those places are often deeply in thrall to police unions and

please as an institution, and so you know, there's a frustration there that can't really be resolved by saying. Why should gotten vote you people been voting for Democrats, you now forever. So there is a lack of accountability here that is kind of structural. It's not just a matter of people going to the polls with going to the polls. It's important! You have to make sure that there are people at the polls you can vote for who had taken a more structural view of why things have gone wrong and are willing to push bold reforms and, and frankly, it's it's often not hard for those people to get ahead. If you have established politicians, sort of pooh poohing proposals that they see as radical, that reforming the police, if ultimately you're going to have to see progressives people what's going to the party, actually prevail in these elections against some of the more entrenched leaders and some of these cities yeah either it's going to be people taking that power from them or the pressure from outside reminding them they have power power to begin with

I'll see to it. Whenever. Thank you so much for joining us such a great conversation. I really appreciate it thanks for having me this was great when we come back we're going to hear directly from some of the protesters who are marching and I was really glad I was able to go and hear what they had to say don't go anywhere, love it or leave. It is more on the wet love it or leave. It is brought to you by simply, what's the number one sign of a bad home security system, homes, security system that so complicated you never it got to use it. If you don't use it. What are you doing and you gotta use it? That's the exact type of security system simply safer spent a decade fighting against. They believe that simple is safer, and it's exactly why simply safe is the home security that you're going to want to use right now, simply safe is designed to be easy to use while protecting your whole home twenty four seven order online with a click of a button open the box place, the sensors plug it in and your home is protected around the clock. I did this myself and it was incredibly easy and you can expect the system of things around. It works pretty seamlessly. It's very well. This

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I'm here today in support of all the black and brown people. We gotta all stand together in order to fight this corrupted justice system. I believe that we should all be treated equal and right now we're not treated. Equally. I have a twenty year old son black man, I'm protesting for him for his bride. On sunday I'm doing the same things down near the stand by my those assistants stand against it's brutality, we can't let this go on or we can't let this go on said the justice that's been going on for many years and I'm finally just rejoice void. I just finally just fed him brianna taylor. It just felt like a personal attack like these are my people, I'm a public defender and we, my boyfriend, and I are both public defenders. We came out for like a public defender walk out from court, but we also just wanted to come support. The protests support black lives speak out against the killings that keep happening an unarmed black.

one this country as the public defender I feel like we are about the front lines social justice and kind the last protection bees we This was the disenfranchise black and brown people in our community against the police, against the district attorney against. the justice system, most of the people Phyllis and emotions, vines and justice? rub their system. They call equality, those zero for future, see it as a mother baby. My idea huge is not overnight process, but this will we work towards a change quality justice for everyone.

I and thanks. Everybody who talked to us at the protest when we come back. We joined by terrain to talk about some police forms that can help reduce violence right now. Take don't go anywhere, more love it or leave it coming up, love it or leave. It has brought by tommy john working from home, used to be the fantasy. Every professional turns out: it's not really that comfortable on us wearing taught me John all sitting down, standing up, answering the door, answering emails, picking up kids, toys or putting down the dog bowl takes it's toll on your layers, your layer, usually tommy john, I mean think you're hyping it a bit just it's just like being around the house in about the house, thankfully Tommy I knows life has its ups and downs, improve their men's underwear, making it more resilient to wear and tear up two times more durable. It still super soft and breathable

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our back he's out as co host of policy, the people and one of the founders of campaigns? Euro? Please welcome back drama cason. it's good to see affidavit and its pride so happy pride. It is I keep forgetting that, like everything is clothes I know now cried, isn't gonna What is it's just going to be digital, we're going away I operate on the inside. Ok, did you make that up? I did just now just happy. Look What I'm glad you're here you know we spoke when your positive america, but in the last few days you ve, launched with britain with salmon with campaigns? Euro? Eight can't wait so he's too everybody. What eight can't wait is so we zoom out a little bit. We we start with recognizing that the police are a lot of people right, at least on average, eleven hundred people a year have killed more people, since the protests in two thousand and fourteen at less and I got learning so worried and figure out what to do to stop it. The twofold strategy, ways reduced the power of the police?

as long as there are police we reduce their power like we take as much our way for them to inflict farming communities today. in the second thing we do is, actually shrink the role of the police, and we do at the same time. These are both aim strategies not either or strategies, Let me take my shrinking the role first so Think about stringing the role we set up into the space from an idea of experts? Do experts do when somebody's have limited graces who responds who should respond in export right now? Are the police, but under no ray so we should actually remove all those responsibilities take on. those resources and put them somewhere else, and we should keep doing that until we get down to the bare as follows, because, like most of us people need is not really in the police department. Anyway, they never gets out of resources we'll talk about, that is a defining the police as a great campaign. Nellie is rooted in different, but stems from this idea, like experts do with experts, you and you know the police first, you gonna be like I'm, not us

Forget it! You right you shouldn't be responding to homelessness ray. We should whole set of people who deal with those issues. They don't have a gun and the police the second buggy, making reasons idea as long as they are police here they should have. medical less power than we have today. So we identify policies that women play change the landscape of how police officers can inflict farming communities said things like exhausting alternatives before using that before his things, like maybe There is a continual answer. Please my misery to identify like wind force can be used for what things making a dude. Intervenes in our cities. Another ask engagement. Doing they actually have to do something. So there, like a host of things that we have identified these things are playing like bless. People die. And in some ways it is harm reduction, re its extent. We can actually reduce harm today and let us do it today I have heard some people say that these ideas in conflict with each other that, like now,

you choose reduce the power or you shrink the role and its actually like you do them at the same time. So as long as police exist, we have to reduce their power. You know you're, not I've seen some of that too, so so mean these are concrete steps in, and you know go to a can't, wait out organ. You can go to your city, your area, you could say which of these aid policies are currently in place, and you can see pushing your mayor, pushing your local leaders, pushing the police department to implement those policies annual according to what you ve put out there. When these policies place violence that results in death communities by seventy two percent. But I in some of the people criticising this idea. I say: well, that's not enough. That's not good enough! You know that still too much harm it still too much danger that we're accepting and our communities. We need radical transfer, discussion of the role of police and what are you say when people can have pushed back on you for pushing these actions?

yeah. So we say that you know the reason why we call it campaign zero. Is that we believe we can live in a world with a please, don't, kill anybody or we put zero resources towards policing, because we put it in other places and where we sort of understand that we don't need to create a whole apparatus of people at gun, try some. He will say that this is enough. We agree that it will take a whole host of steps to get to the end, the police, violence and a move beyond the idea that the police are a necessary part of the public sector equation. We ve never disagree with that. We use there is a policy that, like we can implement today, dont require legislation down Go higher, like mayors can change these things today and they ll save people's lives. Today and importantly, they do it increasing the power, the police they do it freezing the budget of the police, it without increasing like the scope of services. They provide. This is about saying what we can do it today. So I've seen similar prisons tuna and I've been sort of like.

excused by some of the things that other people support. That is not the end up police in and of themselves right right, but it is the knowledge that we push him push. Knowing that we from all directions at once to give us the place. We want to go what I'm here goodbye. Is there a lot of people who have never talked about the police with oil doktor? Making away I am worried now, which really do and is the only way to do so while right, thank you for this day, three thousand etc. people. I think that people are confusing. I like them. Sitting on a having people. I didn't it. It's a beat that people would feel like they had to choose one of the strategies right right, right right, you will feel like they either and the akin way or they're in the deep on the believes Furthermore, in its like none other luxuriant bulk straight, We are just saying that, like today, their police officers and weak, If the power they have right now, so it is a both and it's not an either or- and I think that got lost in our communication. So look in this fight for a long time and on.

Round. We ve seen in all fifty states, in so many cities a ton of organizing its work, familiar with. What is the role that these organizers can play in campaigns euro and like? How do you integrate this work into the campaign we maintain them was conference. A database for police walks in the countries that we support protests as all across the country organizes relevant data about it it is. We also maintain a score kind of all of these elements in California. We made the only database of user for spouses in the country in policing, address in the country, so we are resource. Hyperactive is all across the EU the information they need to go into the road. We have prepared a media, the siting about it. get asked it out and then get the police you gotta body down. I think about our work and efforts to placing it is allowed. People sort of understand the system way that allows them to walk into the river make demands that are like forgetting clear in

What's really barbecues at so many activists are pushed us have helped us think differently about the work and because we manage this large data that way able to do analyses. I can only do that when asked us it's like how many days ago, please not kill somebody to giving you re like we do this interesting, that the data to help people see the consistency with which the police are ballot. I just had a conversation with a writer of sea to enable about just how much forgetting has gone on even since ferguson. It's amazing, you see people about how are they can't believe reporters are being arrested? A reporters were arrested at ferguson. You see, people were that you know the protests will be marred politically by some of the serb unrest that follows, or some of the aggressive actions by police that cause there to be conquered. patients or police being aggressive and then denying that those actions and placing it on the protesters

and all that happened in furs, and you were witness and part of that in Ferguson. Do you think that what's happening now is different? Do you think that this will stay with people that the effects of these protests are are in some ways, larger or different, that more people are participating? More fuller watching has this movement grown. I guess is my question. Yeah, you know every every day I go out this go around. I see a whole different crowd of people who were there before right. This was not the people who are identified as an activist and identify the protesters. I think there's a whole new way. Bp were being radicalized at their people firstly, who who are always like they supported our and they supported me in support of the people. They had never really been impacts in each of the mound the police don't like it was over. They may seem to be in need of support. If you buy me a host of other activists,

and now those people that they saw right? They saw like they're reporting it tear gas. They saw the person get happy with rubber. I have a friend who thought he was going to die because he got hit with us at such close range with a rubber bullet and ab another fatal permanent loss, her eye and because she right, so I think that there is a part of it, because the protests were the wildest in ferguson and they were and in other places, but you know she reflected days was now Protests are allowed in like a host of places ray and like you just see the least be at three p m and away they just so different. You now are doing that. Therefore, I think that, like there's a generation of people like you know, I didn't really believe it, and now they get it. I you like for me even just observing this that I feel like I known you, I've known your work for time you know, we ve talked on the show. We believe I've I've been someone who sort of paid attend

and but I think that there is these two ways of knowing something you can know it, and then you can really know it really internalizing it either by seeing it yourself or by seeing this footage, it's remarkable how just how much these protests have elicited from the police, a response that proves the point You know so much of the newest covers the big cities re. But when we look at the data, I please out is decreasing in city but its increasing role in suburban areas and I'm interested in like what's happening. They re what happens when the media is so coastal. It's so I lay so new york, it's so dc then I worry that were missing. A whole set of things are happening in rule america, where people are being killed. My please reckoner resent suburban america. There has been no my mind as me think you know, even in the conversation about solutions most which you has been in the coastal city right now like, If you think about the sheer rock that the raw numbers of the problem- it's not in the cities right now make cities have gotten a little better, but suburban communities and rural communities

I still am interested it like go. How well understand that better? You know before. you go. Where can people go to tell people what they due to get involved then go I can't wait out of, but what else can they do to kind of support the work right now they can go to a kid with an org. You know there are a lot of people are gonna lay the people's budget is at the rallying cry around the shrinking role, the police and doing it, at least you can their resource. and there were incredible people organizing all around and would love to help connect you to the moment, and that's that's really good work. You know like, I think this is the long haul and I think in the moment, John were like who I think we can get a wins it'll last for a long time ray. I think we're looking at some winds that really changed the game and I'm excited about them more. Thank you to ray for coming out. about an hour. I just want to say you know. This is the second time we spoke in this weekend and I know how relentless this work has been for you, very long time emotionally and also just in terms of your time in terms of our effort, and I think it a time and a lot of people feel very

that they feel sad. They ve been isolated. They feel angry about what they're saying. I just want to say that I find it remarkable how not optimistic, but guys. You are by the work by what we can actually do. So thank you for that issue. We come back we're here from listeners an end on a high note Don't go anywhere, love it or leave it and more on the wet love it or leave it has brought. You buy felix grey, Your favorite devices are a major source of blue light phones, tablets, computers, tv kindles and other devices. There are a lot of like glasses, on a market but they're not all created equal felix gray, glasses, filter out. Ninety percent of blue light in the most damaging range and eliminates ninety nine percent of glare through proprietary industry leading lens technology. Only of well with feel its grey watching tv or working on it peter in bed. At night, or really any excessive amount of screen time can cause. I strain common symptoms from too much time in front of screens or headaches. Blurry vision dry

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you'll receive ten dollars, and cash app will send ten dollars to donors choose which is helping teachers in the classrooms, a no brainer, it's a no brainer. The kashyap has been supporting crooked media from the very beginning, they've been supporting this show and positive america for a very long time. We've raised tens of thousands of dollars for good causes over the course of of our partnership and so on we're using the cash app or not using the other payment apps any more download the app put in the go crooked and you get ten dollars woof. Do it and all is the hour back thanks everybody for listening. I know this was a serious show, but I felt like it was important that we dive into some of these issues this week. Mb as we all needed this we cure it. Is this week's high note submitted by you, the listeners, high, less emphasis on the end? indian from salt lake city Utah calling with our highly for the week, which is the fact that we graduated from medical school and from public health college. So now we will be of the vision,

This is happening all just and were really excited, and we hope that everybody is protesting in peace. And we want you automatically stateless. Do you ever backers matter? I'm sorry, I'm just leaving a protest or new york city, and what gives me hope this week is at one point: we passed mount sinai hospital and all the a hospital workers were standing outside for us laughing as we marched by and we stopped the clock for them. Insurance at stake. You and er, it's a pretty dark world out there and they on witness not just getting you a lotta hope. I love it and Herbie friend, richmond virginia and hi knows is there after days of people, protests in the capital of the confederacy they're, taking down the monument of robert e Lee, this has been achieved. Ass, you in mind an avenue, I'm not only that but there

missing a citizen review board at sea. We were really in progress, and we can do it here in richmond virginia where the confederacy bride, I can do it everywhere, I'm so yeah. I love it. This is your standard from seattle so tat? An my high note this week is that my first ass this any organizing was to adopt florida through the boat dismal arafat adopt mp, and I was actually able to guide northern had a sense of family members to adopt all sixty and made a tree. I says it out to their as well thanks everybody for listening is one hundred fifty days into the elections. Sign up and vote, save america right now to defeat tromp, keep the house and win back the senate. Thank you too cedar and re for joining. Thank you to our listener, thanks to everybody

protests you talk to us? Thank you. The protesters on the ground all over the country. Thank you, too, are grossly workers in truck drivers in delivering people. Thank you to our doctors and nurses and thank you for a whole staff working to keep the show going out and crooked going strong, have a great weakened, mother: leave it at a product of cricket. Media is written and produced by me, John lovett, LISA, Gutierrez the iceberg and our head writer former my bloomberg speechwriter Travis, how it joscelyn cough Mr Lisi, carroll and peter miller. Other writers bill lances, our audio editor and stephen cologne is our sounded in sydney. Rap is our system producer and august? Victor is our intern. Our theme song is written and performed by sure sure, thanks to our designers, mc lean and jamie skill for creating and oliver visuals, but you can't see because this is a pot gas and to our digital producers

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