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the welcome to love it or leave it out of the closets into the streets. The months before again, the merchant will live in and feels like a party when numerate all of my range, we were all hyped to go to the cinema, and now I prefer books. So, let's turn the page. Quarantine hasn't made me lose my head paving the way like a people. Digit don't be surprised when you hear I allegedly push someone the premises right off of the closet into the street plaza street out of the closet street. Alright, that has to be the most aggressive song in the history of these songs. The hickey too stuffy doll. If you have an out of the closet into the streets song, please email to us at leave it at cricket dot com, leave it at crooked dot, com,

And as we return to live with, you have pitches for what we should call it. If we do decide to call it something, send me tweeted at me: I'm open, I'm open, on the show. This week I talked to you infrastructure expert, chuck, maroon about something is halfway between a street in a road called strode. Aren't I promise it's very interesting, I promise and we played a great game fox news misinformation, especially when fox news has been totally funding it end lately, but First see as a writer comedian organizer in canadian, please hug John devil. John things are being here thanks for having me, let's get into it. What are we President Biden tried to back away from his statement. Asserting facebook is killing people, but he was too late. This summer's nasty is old man. Cyber bullying had already begun in response facebook sweep. integrity? Guy rose declared president Biden goal

for seventy percent of americans to be vaccinated by July. Fourth, facebook is not the reason. This goal was missed, which feels very much like guns? Don't kill people, people kill people like sure people radicalized p, but it's a lot harder to do it by walking up to somebody at a trader joe's. You know Sean restructure. Wasn't there I think Biden misspoke thing is there? Aren't any more young people on facebook, so facebook isn't killing people it's killing old people which mean zuckerberg in a murderer, he's technically facilitating assisted suicide, which is very, very different. That tat is different. Actually entertaining their argument? They were like well, eighty five percent of facebook users profess to bringing pro vaccination in some fashion, so I can explain why we haven't had our seventy percent goal, but that's not actually true, like there's no reason to believe

that the misinformation that has spread on facebook, not only caused that fifteen percent but tat of wider impact on the culture and if you are contributing to the fact that certain people aren't getting vaccinated. The fact that there are other pockets of people who, for unrelated reasons to you are not getting vaccinated, doesn't make what you're doing good you know like yet holds like two wrongs. You know that thing yeah and the data is flawed. There right there saying eighty five percent of facebook user said that, but a hundred per cent book users say they're, happy, that's not trail, observing our backing That is absolutely not true. I think it's. funny to have a vice president of integrity, because it means something has gone very wrong like if you're like at a meeting with a business in like they were like. Oh we're, so excited you to meet all of the people at our business and like this. Is our vip. Marketing. This is

p a sales. This is our vp. Preventing carbon monoxide leaks, you wait a second way we sang it sounds like you must have had a pretty big fuckin problem or been monoxide if youve instituto, vice president to stop that problem. A b b of integrity is kind of an everything's? Ok, alarm? You know it's also like water. They holding back the president of integrity for like we're talking about and causing mass death and we're only getting the vp like what are they have to do for us to hear from the president of integrity right, the baseball. Integrity as much more of a figurehead waiting in the wings. In case something happens to the president of integrity. Rivals, I you would like to assume that everybody's job is a little bit integrity. You now don't you put it on the job description, it's one of those things that sort of it assumed mcdonald, said like this

vice president of MC chickens, not killing people with wait, a second how were killing people I'm worried about, and how big is this department You need a vice president's right. Look, how many people report up to the vp of integrity, so of misinformation spreading like wildfire doctrine without you got into it with senator doktor ash Paul in the senate? Is we, after policies, of lying about the role of the national institute of health in funding research and will Hon china its role, the clip senator pool. You do not know what you are talking about quite frankly, and I want to say that officials, official You do not know what you are talking about. It's a dance, and your dancing around this because you're trying to obscure responsibility for four million people dying around them from a pandemic, to write totally resent the lie that you are now propagating senator shunned, you know,

what happens when you make something like that official? How do you officially not know what you're talking about. I feel so four found she like when he was studying in medical school. He never could have anticipated the mass he would be dealing with now, like no one the training to deal with all this bush right, there is bright. There is very little in medical school about testifying before libertarian buffoons. He can't it's a lot like, I think, like organic chemistry and like organ location, in a much more, the focus I interviewed em and all Just you can just see like all he wants to do is say how like how excited he was to vote for Joe Biden and networking he's not allow sat. He hates and passed so is so much money, so measured and so contained hates himself fucking much. Meanwhile,

in a real effort to political decency, house, majority, leader kim Mccarthy, nominated five republicans to join the january six committee, three of whom personally it against ratifying the twenty twenty election You know this scene in a wrong com where they how's gather out a trash can and throw out some photos and keepsakes from the terrible acts and to talk about their feelings and, like maybe they sing. The whole thing point: is you can't do that with the act. And the villain from work we slept with on the business trip like they be at the bitch session yesterday, can be at the inquiry, which is basically what it is when you gathered round the trash can that's not allowed, and now John. I know that these rom com tropes stemmed from deep cold rural, massage, any great rock? I I know that I know guy but the analogy does still work and I think we can still use the analogy while ignoring judging the kind of sexism central,

to a lot of the poor rom com archetypes, you disagree, or are you also massage nest? No fully agree not as a massage but as a die, hard wrong com fan, of that the republic in line here has been that there are other more important questions that the inquiry needs to ask having to do with mother riots. That are happening like, of course, there are Lookin response is all riots matter right, that they want to investigate other domestic uprisings. I think it's actually, because those uprisings were more effective in achieving their aims. Like Adam they're looking for answers that are looking for best practices, is what you do now then all rights matter here. This episode has a title. That's bakes! That's done that hundreds of worry about. Thank you for that. Did He Pelosi subsequently rejected two of his pigs, causing me

billy withdraw all of his appointees, but in fairness to carry mccarthy, you can't have a dim about an insurrection without pro side and a con side. Otherwise is just a group of people trying to save democracy. You don't mean you have to actually have it. We're gonna, look, there's gonna be Adding television, unita Jim Jordan, yes, our right to make entertaining to make it a real show. Otherwise, it's just a speck fighting an examination of one of the darkest days in recent american history. That's not good tv. Are you need? You need the conflict right? Otherwise, just like progress and healing and elected stuff now and then. On monday, georgia, representative, marjorie taylor, green, was banned from twitter for spreading covert misinformation for twelve hours which is the same amount of time. I ban myself from twitter every january first, when I delete the out for my phone, The same like that period of time,

We realize you can log into safari when she was subsequently interviewed, a better vaccinations that is mpg responded. I hey collier that by the way I really regret using it, using it here, which was subsequently fucker green, but marjorie. Taylor Green, responded that the question was. A violation of her a rights. I think we have a clip This is how you sometime vaccinated. Do you disagree with lawyer The first question is a violation of my hipaa rights. You see, if arise. We don't have to reveal our medical records and that also involves or vaccine rather well She needs to twelve hours to do some googling she's, so nefarious these people are so stupid. Like I don't know what we're supposed to do like. I don't know how we're supposed to have a country with these people she's supposed to be crank apaches goes to show up at school boards and

council meetings and yell forbid and sit down because, like she's furious that she's, the only smart person she's not supposed to be. in congress, but there she is here, because we have this ecosystem that turns town cranks into in net sensations and there's no, I don't see anything on the horizon to fix that got us any solution right now to their marjorie taylor, green problem? We have built a way to turn town cranks. Every towns got one. I'm rwandans, ass, it high school. I remember, guy wandering around with signs every town has one they all have been congress, we're pretty well fuck you Well, I remember my mom being banned from an entire season of my soccer games for doing much less than this woman has like she didn't even choose. I thought she would get banned for like a game, but she wasn't allowed to come to a whole season of games for interrupting them and and yelling. That's cool though it sounds like it sounds like your mom was like a real

order or was yelling against your team? She was choose yelling at me. Mostly. I think people are trying to protect me when I was I was on the baseball team and my dad was the coach. fine before the kids all got to I was ok but three year: they had an all star game. Now why Make children not only compete but sort them so thoroughly at every stage of their life is cultural capitalism we should probably kind of reckon with, but regardless There was a all star game for the whole league and the ideas. Every coach would pick a couple of the best players from their team in there be this game because the coaches had volunteered for the whole year as part of it all the coaches, kids got to be any all star game, So basically the teams were made up of the coaches, kids in the best kids for every team. Now I didn't like that nepotism. I hated that, like the idea that I was going to be on this all star quote on quote

team. Having not fully earned it in any way forget the fully. I was a progressive child. You see and so I will be part of this farce on one condition. I want a bat, ass? I want you to stick me in the outfield like I'll, be part of is by don't deserve to be in them, in part of the line up. I don't deserve to be on the infield to stick me in the back of your way, I'll be there. That was the dream, I reached. I forgot that made this arrangement, and so then I get to big game and all the sudden there's a fun game of baseball happening, and I forgot I made this deal now, there's this other dad whose coaching the team and I'm begging to be put in like plea. He's please in filled. Let me bad. Let me be part of this. Why don't you let me play and so somewhere out there inside us? If there is a person who thinks my father is one of the great monsters

for not letting, but I just forgot I got I had a had. I was, I think it was a lesson I was progressive until presented an opportunity which point I became somebody I did all the fruits of of nepotism, vienna yeah you ve, through your dad under the bus completely it completely also this week in Kansas, Frida lay employs continued their third week of strikes prodi, thing, suicide chiefs, mandatory overtime and sweltering factories pepsico owner of freedom? denies the strikers claims calling their claims gross exaggerated, no buff a wild wings or I hop pepsi is not all right now. I have some ugh piss. Instead, thank you very much. Oh, you have see you know, I'd rather have have some fuckin dishwater right, get out the shit right. I never liked your fuckin pepsi right. Now. It's morally despicable, This also remind

me to point out that lays quote tal, cooked, unquote, chips are overrated don't believe, kettles are involved, not there, certainly not better. For you funny and suck did not find it and not onions there. Nothing they suck. Dont tastes like onions, tastes like something else. I looked up this thing that was being shared about food that you can eat. If you want to support the striking workers and literally everything that saw the cross the street from my home. So I'm stating like raw garlic and drinking water. Now can I, he's clovers. I found it it's, as did the pepsico p, get their hands on. The grass newsday astronaut, Jeff basis and

three fellows space near space traveller, successfully returned from their trip on the new shepherd in his speech. After landing bears as well. nikobob had told press. I also, to thank every amazon employ in customer because you guys paid for this, Are we fucking know we did Jeff as we know, we had ass. Yet that's why we're pissed I will never get over seeing good morning, america, you have Jeff basis his brother rick chip, whatever you have one wally funk who, like is a. Ray is person who training her whole life, who is denied a chance to go to space because the massage any and sexism of the space programme has put in the hours seen spaceflight unfold. More than half a century from the earth purely b

as our country could not imagine sending women to space for so long and who the fuck, she's sitting. Next to this rich dutch kid, rich dad bought him I can see I don't like what says about us. Obviously I don't like any aspect of it, but the part I can't get overshot, is how that kid, physically get himself to sit next to this fucking kickass, sub to generic pilot, who spent his whole life dreaming of going to space a pilot. A woman becoming a pilot, unlike the nineteen fifty the kind of fuckin. Daring. That takes to say, fuck you to so many people. She becomes a pilot. She becomes part of the fucking space program. They say jobs, no, you were not ready for to send you out, because this is man's work. no women in space, no thanks,

use fifty years go by jove bases gets on the blower. You say yes, then you're, good morning, america and gale king is like. Are you all excited? And it's like? Yes, rich man, rich man, rich man and I we couldn't be more excited. It's always been independently. Each of our dreams to fuckin go to space, unbelievable that dignity, wally, funk murky, Thirteen unbelievable ball. I'm upset com. She'll space flight is important. It is I like actually do believe in it. but it's something there's something about the way we're going about it. That speaks to something so like unholy about this moment in about like kind of the wrenching, in a quality that it also is a kind of product of and producer of, like

Human beings must go to space. We will either live indefinitely amongst other body he's or will die on this planet like that. Those are the only two options. I think that technology needs to be explored and expanded, like, I believe, in space exploration and I believe in private space exploration. But there is something so ugly, about this kind of performance of achievement. This act performance, milestones in path. Breaking like excuse me. Excuse me with up. Therefore, while it's the first time for you, the first spoken to for you, it's a big deal for you personally, but it's not a big for us. We ve gone much higher and much further you are most cars. Space is already much better at this. This was a branding opportunity like if you believe in private spaceflight space x, is sending he

like higher and further in their technology is much further along. Jeff knows that richard knows that that they wanted the headlines. Fuckin guys wanna hit that's right and in what's your vision for the future of it, because I just feel it can't get enthusiastic about it because I just assume it's only gonna be rich, beautiful people. You being preserved for the genetic pool. gonna be like mailros place in space yeah. I mean, I think, We are seeing that, like the same ways in which these companies have produced like yawning chasms of unfairness on earth they are setting about creating there are problems amongst the stars. I dont like that right. I agree, but I do like the kind of the fact that they are now for a kind of eager reasons and then also some kind of more tangible, but may be further to reach actual reasons: kind of practical financial, holistic reason see a reason for going to space like I am excited about that. I am genuinely excited about that.

So I'm I'm seeing now that maybe that's why baisers brought the female astronauts was just so that he can preserve class disparity on the space ship. Well, that's Unfair because, like the average net worth of everyone on that, ship was like twenty five or fifty billion dollars here on average. So I don't think that's really fair, like the middle yeah, like the middle class on that space. Ship was a hundred million dollars like now Joe. Now there is also this week been some push back on the assertion that the beds at the olympic village, where anti sex beds they actually are recyclable beds? They can hold over four hundred and forty pounds of sex, gymnast risk mcclarnon jumped on the bed to demonstrate their durability. Declaring anti sex bed, rumours, fake news, fuckin, chill out reese business of debt.

weird shit. It is not cool to jump on your own bed and say see you can have sex on. That's like tat all right, That de maybe that's not the reason you're not having sex on that that alright, even coming a little too strong, yeah I mean it's too late to cancer olympics mcdonald's and coca cola have invested way too much money into the construction of this covert. Spreading orgy village there is no going back I've been working on this for four years spreading orgy village yeah. There's no going over now. We're in the olympics are fucking. happening. It's also just kind of what the world needs right now is to believe once again that people could come from every country in the world and united and come together and got very sick. I do think it was probably

idea to add the five hundred metre unproductive calf to the track and field, because at least that kind of I don't know make lemonade. And finally, wild hogs are wreaking environmental havoc in the u s and abroad. Destroy native plants and producing more than a million cars worth of carbon dioxide this on their already leading in the twenty twenty four republican primary. Thank you for applauding. Thank you. Thank you for applauding that jack Sean devlin, thank you so much for me here. Working people find you go to shine, devlin, dot website nice not! Thank you! So much. We come back at a great conversation about it. Action is really interesting. Right. Trust me take don't go anywhere more of love it or leave it coming up, love it

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times more journalism like this project and so much more will continue to be published throughout the year. You can find it all and more at new york times dot com, slash black history, continued new york times, dot com, slash black history continued, I believe it is brought you by noon. Talk about the pressures we face to change ourselves to fit other people's expectations. Ok, ok, where you got and how freeing it can be to find things that work for you instead, that second half I mean I'm still working on yeah, not for yet new music psychology based approach to find a healthier balance, that's more multiple to your life and a result. More sustainable, what goals am I working toward? Well, here's one thing I gotta show its I'm probably probably have a big show in new york in november aroused and look I've said couple goals for myself. One is to sell tickets to it, on the other is to em, don't be like trumpet bill orally yet on whom god only tat, I saw them

giant wall of blue, unsold tickets and honest, don't let it be like tromp come on you can't, but dumber than foresail sale. Yet right put those put those get. Did you try your excited? You ended, I owed smashed. Listen, we cannot sell these tickets and we want to do together are right. That's my homeward about, but I also want to I'll be able to wear my pants again when that show comes along means numa of the second canal and just the second challenge, but sincerely cinema gregor impact is that's what news for our aim. It helps me keep track of my decisions because here the thing you make a couple, bad decision every single week are next. You can't wear your pants button. If you can make some better patterns, happened right, catch herself remake some bad decisions like for example, last night I had a deep dish

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it is the most effective way to help prevent kobe nineteen and get back to the good times find out where, you can get your covert. Ninety, Taxi near you, add vaccines, dot, gov, that's v, a sea See I and ii s dark of. Ever back. He is the founder and president of strong towns. He has a the term strozzi, please what I'm chuck, maroon thanks. So much thanks are being your bride. Similar producer did want to title use the person you going to turn strode because we ve been saying the words strozzi, because this is a segment of the show where we get there specific about infrastructure re. So before we add to that. You haven't Interesting history, your arm, you know there are a lot people who are activists around changing the way the suburbs work changing how we build cities think about cities, data be progressive. They tend liberals, you are a reply.

can you started your career as an engineer I don't we still consider yourself republican. Can you talk a little bit about? You know your kind of realization around sort of suburban design that due to see it as unsustainable. I am a conservative guy from a conservative place at you. I dont really identify as much as republic in any more maybe more when I started strong towns did, but certainly as an engineer, doing projects building road street sewerage systems, water systems, all this stuff I was doing in like multi million dollar capital investments that we were doing, and I was watching the development that was resulting from that being two things: one, not nearly enough in terms of its intensity or its value, to actually through the tat, system recoup enough money to pay for it and ass. looked at it as being very temporary. I'm forty seven years old in my little town, I've seen

walmart move twice now. I was pullings, be abandoned afterwards, We know we spent millions of dollars to get the sewage water out of the walmart building and so You look at this disproportionate level of investment. The publican, spent being essentially any eternal investment, a permanent, very high level of public investment and- the private investment being a very almost throw away like temporary, like disposable level of investment and If that were bad enough, just the revenue streams themselves come nowhere near maintaining what has been built There was a really hard realisation for me because I, like I said I grew up in a place that this is what we built, and this is what success looked like: and so is really hard to actually peel back the numbers and recognise that the more we did the more this stuff we built the more. For color financial situation became an actually the more broke. Our city was becoming an eminent. an interesting about, sir, your perspective, as I think there's a lot of.

Partisan arguing. You see, you know democrats pushing for investments in transit in rail in broad band and clean energy, and then there is this kind of addiction to cars and the part of republicans. What I find interesting about the way you look at this is that's almost beside the point and I think Strode are a good way into this. I think this is something people see all over the country all the time and they don't have a word for it, and I know it's not right and they don't know about how to make something better. So what street. What is a road What is a strode a street a platform for building a place. We talk about it in terms of finance, often since a platform for building wealth, but if you think of wealth as kind of a multi dimensional thing, it's a plot, for building a place? People want to be. A road is a connection, then between places, it's how you get from one place to another very quickly, and like to describe a road as a replacement of a railroad

you know which is a road on rails you get on at once by you get off another spot. There's a high speed connection between the two weeks. back in history, and we can see that you know rose used to be waterways. You would get on a boat one place and that's how you got lost instances very very quickly, but once you are right in a place you- a series of streets that were designed to build wealth not for through traffic, not for Fast movement, road is like out. You know a highway and interstate a railroad river, whatever it connects to places and ST lucia quintessential street. To your mind, is what people all Clinton want to live around, be around it's like you know, in people talk about quaint towns. They talk about a beautiful downtown district where they can walk around and go to a restaurant and go to restore like that's a street, a commercial space. That's a destination Economic value of a road is in connecting places not having development along and the economic value of a place is about

building the greatest place possible. Not about having cars that can go. With very quickly our travel that can pass through it very quickly And you see this embodiment, strode the street road high bred, is something that is trying to both move. People and goods and stuff quickly and create? economic development, and it just fails at both. You really can't do both simultaneously yellow you compared to what I think are futon would yet at like add ons it's a bad couch, the bad bad, so a strode. It is something that's trying to do both and doing both poorly, and these are these, as you see all over the country which are basically like multi lee, Hi ways off, of which you can go into big parking lots where there is either strip malls or big box retailers. or like series of giant restaurants or what have you and they are trapped, either not easy to drive through their certainly not easy to walk through and they're, not kind of lovely places to visit, and we ve built. strozzi everywhere

they're all over the country, so want to talk about Does that kind of deconstruct, these bases these roads. These like bad, is the visit. Bad places a drive through, but ok, what were the incentives that lead? cities and counties in and municipalities all over the country to construct these street road hype, its transportation funding, large It comes from the state and federal government What you see is that a lot of these places are on state aid highway state through rose county through roads, the transportation funding that comes from someplace else, and so what you're doing when you can build two hundred million dollar bypass of a city or were you can build a twenty million dollar frontage road, thoroughfare kind of thing. What you're doing you tapping into outside money is so in a sense like house money, your plane with you put it in place and so any development that you get off of that is like free, money for a local government right.

For now local government- that's the government incentive. If you look at the private sector, the private sector incentive is massive. The gun comes in they build for you at no cost to you were a very low cost to you that the walmart, the strip mall the mcdonald's, drive through what have you build this piece of infrastructure would in pre depression days would have been like the developers cost. That's all covered. and even where it's not covered the part of it. We ve made that development process really cheap and easy, so we ve got long term financing for you. We built secondary markets for that You can think of it as a modern equivalent of slash and burn agriculture. You just things like pop up really quick one life cycle, and you dont worry about the second lifecycle, can it really really really quickly in the economic system. We set up every one kind of benefits from it. If The federal government in you measure success in terms of jobs, p, which is a measurement of transactions and climate this,

create a lot of transactions and lowers unemployment in the short term. if you're, the local government, a new measure, success in terms of the number permits you issue and you know them. Of tax base growth you had over the last year. This is what really easy to do. The problem always comes in two three decades later, when you have to go out fix and maintain the stuff, and the two space you have is either gone or insufficient, to actually do that job. You know you see this in a few different kind of forms of unsustainable building, so you talk about the light cycle of suburbs is being unsustainable. They are built they flourish, and then they slowly fade away, because the of maintaining the infrastructure, the roads, the sewage, the electric lines. All of that is too expensive in this kind of sprawl. The same thing happens with these kind of delaying highway by all commercial spaces that, like ultimately, they are built to decline. they are built to decline and we consider confidently because if you, if you look at organics,

If you look at natural systems that sustain themselves over time, this is evolutionary process right. They adapt they change, so stands as our different. You just go actually the roads that I built a my early engineering days, let alone you know. The people who taught me who taught me is a completely different economy today than it was back then. So we after have systems we build adapt and change over time the defined in feature. Postwar development is that we build everything all at once and we build it to a finished state and so everything that we build is designed to be good at the same time fail at the same time and then change or adapt in any way, Whether you looking at an environmental, ecologically or socially or financially, that's not a viable model. You know it a lot of it about how these are big box. Retailers have like walmart and others have pushed out. Mom. There's like this debate. Right like oh, are you living in the wreckage of downtowns or they helping to push the destruction of those.

towns? But we don't talk enough about the actual infrastructure. Choices and where we put dollar Yours in this stunned that make it much cheaper to build a big box store and actually kind of suck money out of the downtowns ever. one talks about loving right, the community spaces the places where people gather and see friends and see family on the street. The kind of the quintus Joe version of a downtown space that people want to talk a little bit about places that are kind of coming back towards supporting kind of downtown development and what that looks like in terms of like how people should be pushing either locally or pushing their representatives to kind of support stronger, downtowns like everybody says they want, but doesn't know how to support when we think downtowns like the quintessential downtown, I think a lot at times we think of- and I am not saying this in a derogatory way, but we haven't think of like main street disneyland

which was designed to be like up some black run, like a version of like the quintessential downtown right, like that's what we're plugin into. But you see restaurants and if he's shops and bakeries and like knickknack places, and I feel it That is the version that we are sliding into, and I think it's a good like foothold, but over we trying to get back to it and what would have been before this kind of museum piece of downtown actual real economic ecosystem where you add not only offices and shops, but you had local retailers doing locally produced stuff. You got your clothes locally, that was actually produced locally. That actually, you know was sourced materials locally There's a whole like economic ecosystem that ties into a core downtown and the surrounding neighborhoods that has we like human life to it,

We can go back and look at cities for thousands of years and we see not just restaurants and coffee shops, but we see like the thing that humans actually need to survive. Retail, basically yeah actual. on a commercial yeah life in all towns in some in downtown we embrace the malls and we embrace the big box stores and we embrace tat because it felt like progress right. It felt like well that downtown as the old- and this is the new and our economies changing and we need to change with it put a massive amount of subsidy? In making that happen, I mean right, unfathomable amounts of money into driving downtown out of business. bringing back new stuff, post world war, two, if we want the other stuff back, there's gonna have to be not only a different subs. approach but an localization of the money- and I think that's the hard thing right now, our economies wired to put lots and lots of money. I wrote a thing about the cheesecake factory

and how we build them out in the pandemic. She's got factory within, for weeks. The pandemic started had notified every place, they were, they were not paying their rent and they were gonna go bankrupt, but we pay tunnel money into buying their debt and pumping them up, and I said it's not because anyone loves the cheesecake factory, It does not say something. We're gonna regret. There's a simple mechanism to put lots of money into the cheesecake factory and its horde and you saw this through the ppp programme and all that its heart to put money into that local restaurant. I know that you ve been critical of the way which some of these larger infrastructure proposals moving through congress distribute the money that is kind of of the same pattern. Basically, you know look out. it is due to the point ring localities will get this money into use it or lose it situation. They will come up with a way to spare vast sums of money and build new things in again rather than kind of the kind of ground up development that is needed.

This is like this. Where the money is, the federal government is going to fund infrastructure. It is we need part of it when is eve eve, somebody's mutton amounts are not enough, because even in ten years in which will spend this money a bunch Their things will go into disrepair was we're just not keeping up with the amount of maintenance we need to do, but to what would you like to see in terms of how the federal, government invest in local infrastructure to restrict the scales away from big box. You know highway jaya parking lot develop with the federal government really good at it. Doing things at a large scale over and over again, very efficient, so Building the interstates system ridiculously efficient, we went out and within a decade transformed an entire continent around a new idea of highways. Everson really them end of the nineteenth sixties, early nineteenth seventys. We ve been pouring money into the same system and you can get the diminishing returns. I mean a billion dollars for an interchange. That's gonna increase strive times. You know by fifteen.

Gains for the average commuter these. These are not good investments, and so What really needs to happen is that we need to stop expanding these systems and stopped. And to build these systems and actually go out and see what we can do to make better use of the end. Since we have already made increase the financial productivity, actually turn us working lots in the buildings and turn those one story. Building. The two story, buildings and start thickening up neighborhoods, the parliament that apply Is it the federal government does not do that? Well, it's not approach that scales. It's a hyper local nuanced approach, and so in a world where we kind of feel compelled to spend money out of DC. As opposed to a bottom up. What I said, Stop spending money on transportation to say the federal german just gonna maintain the systems of photography has already built, and if you ve got to spend money just give cash to cities. Do whatever you want with it. We talk about the atomization in our culture, through the lens of politics, often, and also

lens of social media, but not all and in the lines of infrastructure and the way the structure shapes how we engage with community engage with the towns in which we live. There are examples of places that have basically inverted their shrouds into plazas. They ve concerted, formerly a kind of like dead economic zones for way. Basically, you drive in you fill your car. You drive home into more kind of community space Can you talk a little bit about that? What you think it forty calls for some of the changes we need to make. I think the most exciting places right now in this country also tend to be the poorest places, point two members, tennessee appointed shreveport louisiana, appoint to santa Anna California, places that we spent time in as an organization places without a lot of money, and a lot of resources have been We got in and said: how do we make the best use of what we have

and what you see is kind of less pretty less refine version of what you see in some very rich places where they ve got an in built plaza and done the very high and thing to me, those few then like again, like museum pieces, like lifestyle appendages to a place, but if you go to some of these places, detroit is another example where the lotta neighborhoods are coming back and these gathering spaces are being created I'm not going to say people live in like some left right, blue red utopia, but what you do see, is a lot less dysfunction in terms of people conversing with each other in part of each other's lives, thank you see a lot of the natural mixing of humanity that humans are why to do. I think one of the things I strongly has taught me. Is that visit each tonne a value in progressive perspectives, particularly, local level and

I can have really great conversations about conservative values and conservative approaches that line up with progressive values and progressive approaches once we're talking about are blocked our neighbourhood are city are community in ways that ass all the boundaries that were struggling to cross today, chuck moran muscle to talk to you, thank you for sharing your thoughts, really appreciate it. Hey thanks for the imitation nice to see when we come back. Fox news has been cycle, through bad guys lately and they are phony it in and we played a great came up. I don't go anywhere, love it or leave it and there's more on the way, love it or leave. It is brought to you by armchair expert with dax shepard. If you love, celebrating the messengers of being human than you'll love. Armchair expert with dac shepherd on me, these and thursdays hosts dax and monica, engage in deeply inspiring authentic conversations with different accomplished. Guess we landed print harry, we think you're, better than lovely written potted where we and print harry, I think taxing is better

That's the beauty! Deck shepherd about! Printout harry on taxes show. Why didn't we think we asked me wouldn't ask we could ask ourselves how we should as presented come on, They also time, but he is good guess it worse. You'll hear from high would say as musicians, professional athletes award, winning scientists, authors and more to start listening, simply download the spotify app sign up for free and search for armchair expert. It's a great to access has an incredible job. Having these revealing conversations with all of his guests, I mean sometimes you get a dud like that and it just sort of like yeah yeah. We get it obama blah blah blah blah blah blah blah, listen to armchair expert for free now, only on spotify once an invite like a fucking back. We were all that they are there in lovely is Roger you by Tommy John apollo,

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It's always been a well oiled machine, not a machine that should be oiled. Just one is well oil like an incredibly oily laptop. That's the fox, We ve come to know and low than while they ve always been quick on the cut and paste when it comes to meaningless hate bill. Talking coins, they really been sort of funding it in lately. Don't believe me, then that's player, of talking heads I'll play a clip. and sarah we'll have to tell us what each venomous weirdly vague quote is ranting about. Is it a covert vaccine is if a caravan that has been heading to our southern border for say the last five years whenever there's an election or is it the most recent most dreaded? read to America, knowing american history Hi. Sarah, thanks for being here hyping, we're having me what part of the country and, right now I am in Indiana hum of my pants I got Edu yeah. That's ass, my school email swayed to what he said:

I just graduated. I got my J d and I take the bar next week. That's cool! Are you ready for the bar? It's hard right, yeah, very hard, not ready. Do you strange that law school does in preparing for the mar? That's what we and saying. There's a big push till I get rid of the bar exam, but nobody is listening to us. So that's it Now it's I come. It's a perverse, incentives, because once you taking the bar is no longer in your interest or really that big of a deal to unify for others to not have to take the bar and the only people who take them? people who aren't lawyers. Therefore, lawyers don't advocate to have people not take the bar. You know what you straight because there's gotta be advocates that yes, but have you met a lot of lawyers really just the one that I work with and those are good. Lawyers had a minimal. mothers. Can I hear about them? Well,

Have a game works right, we're gonna play a clip and you have to tell us what it's about. Are you ready wilfried, let's dearest, first up Tucker Carlson. They will do what they want. You will do what they say. No one will stop them, You will not want to live here when that happens. Sarah who is day is tucker mindless, denigrating. Those who support critical race, theory or black lives matter. I'm black lives matter. You got it. You got one for one year, one for one: next, we're on the verge of east german style, show your papers, east germany scary according to and is viewers gut reaction. Why are we on the verge of that is gun, control or code vaccine mandates, gonna go, vaccine mandates, he got it, you got it. next collect. This is a big topic.

I cover extensively. I truly believe that it's time for us to pull our kids out of school. What threat is talking about. She covers it extensively designs is worried about what is it? Fairness for trans, kids or critical race theory will then staff only not the first one sour. domestic with critical areas. Theory ass, critical history is the answer next from camp Your form editor in chief cabot, philips, cabot philips, you You know you deal with a right wing person, here's the clap their organs as they are growing and and they do not care about all the ideals that we hold dear in america. They don't care about free speech. They care about intimidation and violence to get what they want. They don't care about america here for your free speech. They can be absolutely anybody or anything who cabot, philips, trash jockey. Now is it antigua, cancel culture or black lives matter Yes, you got it. It's antifa, who is worried about their necks up.

you should know her from her nazi salute at the republican national convention. Lord Ingram, they goal is to break the bond with the nuclear family. The goal is to break the bond with the nuke. Family, were sick of these tired old nuclear families. When a new depraved ro family three dad's for mom sex robots according to lord Ingram. What is being used to achieve this end can we all want? Is it allowing gay marriage? Is it teaching kids about they them pronouns, or is it the new biden, child tax credit is it the day then pronounce it is it is they that pronounce he got it yes, she's back she's, no good she's no go next up ray. In biographer. Craig surely said this. These are based with jake events of the french revolution. Now, in the twenty first century version they are the storm. Troopers deacon documents who want to trap of the rule of law, the jack and storm troopers at one time, so

france and space frontiers threatened by this time, double terrible, deacons We should whatever. That means. Who is you warning us about? It, and tv is it squad or is it the caravan? I think, he's talking about the the caravan. Isn't it While that does it make, but it doesn't make any sense what their jack storm trooper deconstruction, is caravan, but that's what he said all right the caravan? But I see why you went with the squad. It felt that's why I thought it was hard to harden haven't been squat there. Final question: Tucker karlsson said this its lunacy. It's the french revolution. The stuff is everywhere the french revolution. Is there go to analogy, get you put in overtime at the guillotine factory, because total karlsson knows his cake eating gazer over? What is you usher in the liver,

equality and fraternity, the tucker. Afraid of I like The writing of this is very pro french revolution, so what was he talking about? Was it end if fake news critic raised theory or the green new deal? My says the green new deal you got is wrong tat? He was talking about critical race theory, but you the data, so your other gut felt like that might not be the answer. Just a one. All of them are very possible. Sarah, you, one the game as surely as you will win your battle against bar exam in Indiana congrats patience dunno, you won the game and how many flashcards are within ten feet of uranium. Don't have flash currents cause they're on my ipod, but I do have handled right next to me, sir, what It say this is making me feel very strange. Here's the thing

the last time I took a test, their didn't there, weren't ipads I haven't taken a test in the flat, screen era. So of course, I thought flashcards, but yeah ipad. They make great flash it's for the ipad. You know a great medium for the further flash cart you know. Yet. Closest cheap cheapened and want to have to wait for the cards to get here, so I bought the electronic. Why, a great lawyer, Sarah, thank you so for being here good luck on the bar exam aright? we come back one that I know ever back because we all needed this week here it is the height of eleven it mandy and sunday, Japan? Yes, I said Japan dealing with the virus really bad here, not many people are vaccinated, but my city has started a programme so any elderly or sick people who don't

to their appointment. Who message there vaccine is given- teachers at elementary schools here, so I will be getting my second shot next week on Wednesday, tomorrow, the last day of this term. Before summer, vacation and after school, I'm going to the olympics I can check out china, verses, brazil, women's soccer game. I will be. There was some of my students very exciting. On saturday I turned thirty nine so hopefully one more year and will be through this fires here alone, hope everybody in america is doing well. I'd like to come back, Where does have a great? This is call Colin from west central illinois Finally, while my highlight of the week I was running the.

in your local five key ratio for the forty second time. Only serve five physically, but mentally is while running is my way of dealing with right demon- of having been a participant in america's war, now Should we not have the physical benefits of noni juice help. With mentally coping with this of why, thanks for doing hey love, it my name Daniel Ortiz, and my high note for this week. I just got certified beyond the ballot for this year's to leave the city council, primarily I've run for office before my reason work him again for, but they are partly inside by what you guys do a crooked people either remember something I decided last year, two thousand and four as the fear and turn for nothing

starting from zero followers on all platforms and everything like that, we went out- we got the signatures we needed now we're going to be on the ballot this september for the cleanest city, council, race, I love it. This is pam some very in washington and I'm leaving a personal. I know you're desperately in need of goodies MIKE. On, owing to its for result. Today, after his corrected heart surgery finally had to feeding to remove. This means that he has enough energy to if calories on his own and they make twelve years free. Since we know have to worry about him, calling things out of his face, and living has best baby. I want like everyone at yale children hospital for the compassionate care. He and my daughter received thanks. Everyone ever anywhere. He made. That seems possible because I am so excited to be able to go and see him next week I want to thank you and everyone at crooked another leader for making a flash and

giving me motivation to get involved and help make this world a better place for ourselves and little humans like ireland? So thanks a lot by a love It- or this is Stephen NB just wanted to say a thing robert. You guys do love. The show- and I are I know this week- is that my wife and I found out that we're gonna have our first kid. So keep up the good work in stages. Thanks. Everybody who called in if you want to leave us a message about something that gave you hope, call us at seven hundred and forty two hundred and ninety eight five thousand eight hundred and eighty,

you, two sean devlin, chuck neuron and everybody called in. There are four hundred and seventy two days until the twenty twenty two mid term elections have a great weaken loved her leave. It is a crooked media production. It is written and produced by me, John love it and lies in birth. Kindred James is our senior producer. Howie keeper is our head writer, joscelyn, kaufman, pallaby, gennleman and Peter miller. Are the writers are associate? Producer is Brian seminal bill lances, our editor and kyle segment? Is our sound engineer? Our theme song is written in performed by sure sure, thanks to our designers, jesse, Maclean and mercer mire for creating and running oliver visuals, but you can't see because this is a package and to our digital there's normal conan and Milo came me a common and mad to group for filming and editing video each week, so you can

Are the arabs and I'm louis foretell, step aside, because I'm a real the union has become the spring. We are so excited to free brand new episodes of keep it where we explore the biggest and allowed us ways. Entertainment pop culture and politics collide catch up on our most recent interview with hollywood legends like Michel, yo, Judas and surely rough. On top of that, We found time to chop it out with alexander scars, guard guardianship, add and kristen chinaware, so join us for new episodes of our podcast. Keep it every wednesday. Listen wherever you get your pod