The following is a conversation with robert F Kennedy jr candidate for the president to the united states running as a democrat. Robert is an activist lawyer and author who has challenged some of the world's most powerful corporations seeking to hold them accountable for the harm they may cause I love size and engineering? These two pursuits are to me the most beautiful powerful in the history of human civilization. Science is our journey our fight for uncovering the laws of nature and life. Jeanne them to understand the universe and the law. And the amount of suffering in the world. Some the greatest human beings have ever met, including most of my good friends, our scientists and engineers. Again, I love science, but science cannot flourish without epistemic.

melody without debate, both in the pages of academic journals and in the public square in good faith. Long form, conversations, agree or disagree. I believe roberts voice should be part of the debate to call him a conspiracy, theorist and arrogantly dismiss everything he says without addressing it diminishes the public's trust in the scientific process. At the same time, dogmatic scepticism of all scientific output on controversial topics like the pandemic is equally, if not more, dishonest and destructive. I recommend that people read ellison to Robert F kennedy junior, his arm

and his ideas. But I also recommend, as I say this conversation, that people read and listen to listen, reckon yellow from this. We can virology den wilson from debunked the funk and the twitter and books of paul off it, Eric topple and others core outspoken in their disagreement with Robert. It is this green. It not conformity the bends, the long arc of humanity tore truth and wisdom in this process of this agreement. Everybody has a lesson to teach you, but we must have the humility to hear it and to learn from it and now a quickie circumvention of each monster check them out in a description is the best way to support this back ass, who got how to make a dangerous

snacks asleep for naps. Instead, tracker for biological data and eighty one for my go to daily multi vitamin she's wisely. My friends, also, if you want to work with our amazing team. We're always hiring got a lex friedman, dot com, slash, hiring and now onto the full ad reads, as always: no ads in the middle. I tried to make this interesting, but if you must skip them, please still check out our sponsors. I enjoy their stuff. Maybe you will too, the show is, but you buy a house or macadamias a company that makes delicious high quality healthy, macadamia nut based snacks, every single person. I have shared the snack with have I deeply enjoyed it, has been quite a few people, including guests, and I love it and they love the variety and each individual snack,

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for they feel like a high, would help the little reference, daisy, deasey, unwanted, most bad ass, songs, ever written but anyway, life sometimes feels like a highway to hell, and this is a little detour again to their gas station. Where you meet a person that helps you escape. From all the madness of this world and realise how beautiful human beings are, as neighbours is a reminder how beautiful life is how insatiably delicious This every single moment is half full of vigour and sensory extravagance. Every single moment is aiming for me. The naps dude,

sure I'm sure there's drugs for this too, but dad to me the healthiest drugs good nap. An eight sleep makes that nap extra special check it out in a special savings. When you gotta eat sleep, the calm, slash lacks the shows, also brought you buy inside tracker, a service they used to track biological data. Obviously, this episode is very much about your health there's a lot of controversial aspects to this episode, but I think was not discussed in this episode and what I think is true, but the future of medicine about the future of health and died, and so on that the decisions we make about your body should be driven by the data that comes from your by as much wrong signal,

as possible. That's what he said, trackers paving the way on is getting as much biological data from you as possible to help me make decisions as blood data dna data for the tracker day. All that show that it Machine learning, algorithms, to give you recommendations, get special savings for a limited time. When you go to insight, tracker, dot, com, slash lex, get special savings for a limited time. When you go to insight tracker dot com, slash lex, this show is brought to you by the thing I just drink, The greens are what is now called Agee g, the name of the drink in the name of the company. Eighty one Then all one daily drink to support better health and pete performance, a drink it twice a day, I'm travelling

and the travel packs they make me feel like I'm at home. For a brief moment, I make myself and the greens, I put it in the fridge I'll, let it cool for awhile and then I open it up drink it, and not only do I feel healthier Not only do I feel, like I have my life together, even when on the surface it seems like the life is falling apart, physically and emotionally. I know at least I got my nutritional basis covered. I think it's really important when you travel when I travel to have little reminders, maybe almost subconscious reminders they make. You feel like this hotel, or this shady place you find yourself in somewhere in the world has a piece of home in it and make a kind of feeling. you are at home until you realize you're not, but that little break his wonderful.

For me a juvenile some very much that because it makes me think I come at home. I have my life together, though my travels willingness to have it as well They'll give you a one month supply of fish oil. When you sign up at drink age, you want dot com, slash legs. This is the lecture event podcast. The supported, please check out our sponsors in the description and now, dear friends, here's robert F Kennedy Jr. It's the fourth of July independence day. So simple, question, simple, big question: what do you love about this country, the united states of america? I would say there are some eight things. I love about the country on earth

the landscapes and waterways and the people etc. But on the above a higher level in a people, argue about whether were an exemplary nation and the that term has been given a bad name, particularly by the neo collins. The actions than the economy and in raw. Decades, who have turned, add that phrase into of a justification for forcing people to adopt. American systems, are values at the barrel of a gun. my father and uncle used it in a very different way and are very proud of it. I grew up very proud of this country because we were the eggs exemplar in asian and and and in that sense, that we are an example of mark all over the world, and we, when we first our democracy in seventeen. Eighty, we were the only democracy on earth and by that was so

or by eighteen. Sixty five, there were six democracies did a there's, probably hundred and ninety and all of them in one way or other our model done, and on the american experience and its an because our our first contact with our firm seriousness and contact with a european culture and continent was, and sixteen o eight one John winthrop came over with his puritans in the sloop. Our bella winthrop gave this thing. his speech where he said this is going to be a city on a hill. This is going to be an example for know all the other nations in the world and the he warned that his appeared and they were sitting at the at this great expense of land. He said we can't be. We can be seduced by

They were of real estate or by the colonel opportunities of this by, and we have to take this country as a gift from god: and turn it into a an example for the rest of the world of gods of god's well and and wisdom and an end to a two hundred years, or two hundred, fifty years later, they different. Generation are mainly ds, her people who had a belief in god, but not so much. I, a love of particularly religious cosmology framework constitution, leave them We are creating something that would be replicated around the world and that it was an example,

it, would in my creasy there would be this kind of wisdom from the collective that and the word wisdom means and knowledge of gods and at some god would speak through a collective in a way that that he or she could not speak through through total to regimes it, and you know, I think that that something that even winthrop was away a protestant that every emigrant group who came after them a kind of adopted at believe I know my family when, in my family came up all my grandparents came over and eighteen forty eight during the potato and I saw this country is unique in history or something of that

was I that was part of kind of a broader spiritual mission, and so I'd say that and from a thirty thousand foot level at it, as I grew up so proud of this country and believing that it was the greatest country in the oven. For those reasons, while I immigrated this country, and one of the things that really embodies america to me the ideal of freedom hunter thompson said freedoms something that dies unless it's used. What is freedom mean to you? The main freedom does not mean ok, eyes and it does not mean an arcade. It means that it it it. It has to be accompanied by restraint if it's going to live up to it's promise and self restraint remains the capacity for human beings who are n.

Size and to fulfill their green of energy is unrestrained as much as possible by government. So this point, the hunter a start is made is dies unless is used. I agree with that yeah. I do agree with that, and I mean he. He was a unique and saying that thomas jefferson said the tree of liberty. It has to be watered with the blood of each and operation and what he meant by add is that it's it's you can't live off. We can't live off the laurels, the american revolution. We had a group, we had a generation where, between twenty four thousand and seventy thousand americans died, their lives. They give livelihoods, they ate their status and gave their problem if they put it all on the line to give us our bill of rights and that, but those bill of rights

meant that we sign them. There were forces within our society that began trying to chip away at them. At night in our happens and regeneration. And it is the obligation of every generation to safeguard and protect those freedoms. The blood of each generation You mentioned your interest, your admiration of albert canoe, a vast racism, perhaps your injures an existential ism come who said, I believe, a myth of this This is the only way to deal with a non free world is to become so absolutely free. They you're very existence is an act of rebellion. Why do you think he means by that? I suppose that come oh viewed the world, and the way that the stoics did and a lot of the exist. Angeles was that it was or that it was so absurd. And at the the the the problems in the task

They were given just live a life so insurmountable that the the only way that we can kind of get back the gods for giving us, as you know, this is an impossible task of of living. Life was to embrace it and to enjoy it and to do our our best, I mean to me. I you know I read came a little in the particularly the method for says is as aid, kind of a pair of all that. And it's the same lesson that I think he he writes about in the plague where were all given these insurmountable task in our lives, but add by doing our duty by being of servants, others we, can bring meaning to meaningless chaos. And we can bring order to the universe and

He knows his abyss was the iconic here the stoics, Annie is a man because he did because he did. Something good, deliberate gift, humanity. He angered the guides and they condemned him to put a rock the hill every day and rolled out I got to the top. It would roll down an aid, spend the night going back down the hill to collect and rolling it, but up the elegant. And the task was absurd. It was insurmountable, he can never win, but the last line of that book is one of the great lines which is, which is something to the extent that you know I can picture, says, smiling upbeat Cameras belief was at even though he has to house was instrument that he was happy man and it was a happy

and because he, british older list, he took his duty, he embraced task, and the absurdity of life and he pushed the stone up the hill and that, if we do that, and if we find ways of beings of service others at is the ultimate as the key to that says, Lucian applies on each individual person in that way can never rebelled against absurdity. by discovering meaning to this whole messy. And we can bring real meaning not only to our own lives, but we can bring meaning the universe as well. I can bring some kind of order to life in a unit that those in the embrace of those tasks and the and the commitment of service resume it's out from us to rouse him added in some in some way. So he

in the plague by commercial there's, a lot of different ways to read that book, but one of them, especially given how it was written, is that the plague a symbolizes nazi germany And the heather regime, what are you about human nature,. For my figure like Adolf hitler that he is able to accept. Debate the minds of millions rise to power and take on pull in the hole world into a global war. I was nine years after the end of world war. Two. and I grew up in a generation is fit in with my parents who were fixated on that, and you know what happened at my father at that time, the in others I know that the resolution in the minds and most americans- and I think people around the world is that there was

there had been something wrong with the german people. The germans had been particularly susceptible to this kind of them. Calgary and following a powerful leader and enters into realizing, cruelty and and and murder, and my father always differently with my father said this is not a german problem. This can happen. Of us were all just inches away from barbarity, and the thing that keeps us safe in this country are the institutions of our democracy. Our constitution, it's not our nature. Aren't nature has too has to be restrained. Added at night comes through self restraint.

It also entered the beauty of our country, is that we developed. We devise these institutions that are designed to allow us to flourish, but at the same time not to give give us enough freedom to flourish, but also create enough order to keep us from lapsing into barbarity, as one of the other things and my father taught about from one eye, let all in a way he would ask as this glass and if you, if you have a family and Anne frank, Dear to our attitude, I would you be one of the people, who had her wrist you're alive? Or would you be one of the people who turned or end

of course, we would all say. Of course we would hide and frank and take the risk, but you know that's been something I can't, alas, and a challenge that has been that has always been near the forefront of my mind that if a totalitarian system error occurs in the united states with my father, thought was quite boss. the heap he put his conscience about how fragile democracy actually is add when I, When are the ones who would resist the totalitarianism or what? I believe. One of the people who went on with Would I be one of the people who is at the train station and you know, krakow or or or or in one even berlin, and saw people being shipped off to camps and just put my head down and pretend I didn't say it because

about it would be destructive to my career, maybe my freedom even life. So you know that, as a challenge that my father gave to me in all my brothers and sisters and it's something that I've never forgotten a lot of us I too believe would resist in that situation, but The reality is most of us, wouldn't as a good thing to think about. Human nature is such that were selfish, even when there is an atrocity going on all around us and we pursuing an olympic affair has its deceive ourselves and all of us, down the kind of judges of spain. Our intentions and our actions What have you learn about life from your father, Robert F, Kennedy, personal or say this about my uncle causes? I'm gonna, applied a question my uncle at my father. My uncle is ass when we first met jackie movies

later became Jackie Kennedy. She was rapporteur for a newspaper and she was doing. She had a kind of column where she'd do these these kind of. And if he interviews with it with of famous people and current man in the street. Is she was interviewing him. She asked what she thought, what he believed, as best quality was it's his strongest virtue, and she thought tat. He would say courage because, been war hero. He had. It was. The only president and the only with senator, by the way, who received the purple and oh he had very

Famous story of him as heroes were what two and then he had come home, and he read a book on car, on moral courage among american politicians and on boats are prize that book profiles and courage and which was a series of incidents where american political leaders made decisions to to embrace principle even of their careers were at stake and in most cases words right by their choice. Oh, she thought it was just to garage or he you didn't. He said curiosity and I think in looking back at his life that the best, but that it was That was the quality than allowed him to put him of in the shoes of his adversaries he always said that if you, if the only way

We're going to have peace is if we're able to put ourselves in the shoes or adverts or is understand their behavior and their contacts, not contacts, and that's why he was able to. You know, during the he was able to resist the intelligence apparatus and the military during the bay of pigs when they said you ve got it send in the six the aircraft and use and now, even though it only been in one to me, It's an office. He was able to stand up to them because of because he was able, to put it mildly. in the shoes of both castro and khrushchev and understand. There's gotta be another solution as an end. During the cuban missile crisis, he was able to do on. The narrative was, ok, khrushchev, acted in a way and as grants the put missiles in our hemisphere? How dare he didn't and

it might. My father were able to I will wait a minute he's doing, because we put mess holes and turkey and italy at we're right on target right on the russian border. and they then made a secret deal with dobrynin with a battered brenda and with crush of to work, to remove the missiles in in turkey if he moved and jupiter. Mrs frontier turkey. If, if I a so long as crucial remove them from run you by everyone with thirteen men on the executive on the end, what they call me, I can't committee, which was the group of people, were deciding what the action but what they were going to do that and the cuban miser crisis, and virtually I end of ozma man. Eleven of them wanted to invade unwanted abominate aid, and it was jack and then

later on my father, an ant by man, the only people who were with him, because he was able to see World crush s point of view. He believed there was another, so Ocean and then he also had the moral courage, so my father in law to get back to clash and AMOS leaves at that or courage is the most important quality in its more it's more rare and courage. Football field or courage in battle than physical courage as much more difficult to come I put it the most important quality and a human being. I think they're kind empathy that you referred to. That requires more courage. It certainly rick. fires, moral courage to act on a bridge, golly in our n any time that a nation is a poor theirs.

Of a momentum or and nurture says ok, let's not look at this. From the other person's point of view, and that's the truth, We really need to do that. Well, if you can apply that style of empathy starve curiosity to the current war in ukraine What is your understanding of why russia and very ukraine in February twenty two vladimir boot could have voided. The warning ukraine is in there was illegal? It was unnecessary and it was brutal, but I think it's important for us. The movie on these kind of comic book. Depictions of in all of this in avaricious russian leader, who wants to restore the soviet empire that

that's. Why and it I made an unsolved unprovoked, invasion of ukraine will he was provoked and we were provoking em we provoke him from power since nineteen ninety seven and it's not just me that saying that I'm in when one and I m but for before, put never came in, we were provoking russia. The russians in this way unnecessarily. and go back that time and ninety ninety two, when the russians moved out when the soviet union was collapsing, the russian it's moved out of east germany, did that which was a huge concessions and eight four hundred thousand troops in east germany at that time, and they were facing nato troops on the other side of the wall. A gorbachev made this huge consent where he said to george Bush, I'm

move all of our troops out and you can and reunify germany under NATO, which was a hostile army to do this it was created in our with hostile intent where the soviet union and- if you can take germany, but I want your promise that you will not move nato to the east and James baker, who was secretary of state famously said, I will not move No, we will not move nato one inch to the ease of then of five years. there are ninety. Ninety seven, the big neighbour, since the eu is kind of the father, the nea kinds. democrat time deserved a night carter illustration isa heap published a paper. A blueprint for moving nato right up to the russian border, a thousand miles to the east and an taking over forty nations.

and at that time, george cannon, who was the deity of american diplomats? He was probably Arguably, arguably the most important diplomat in american history. You is architect of the containment policy seed or world war two and he said this is insane and its unnecessary. And if you do this, it's gonna provoked the soviet. I'm not rushing through violent response, and we should be making friends with the russians. They lost the cold war. We should be true in the way that we treated our adversaries afterward or to live with a marshall plan to try to help them incorporate into Europe and part of that, the brotherhood of of man and of western nations. We shouldn't continued treating them as vanity, and particularly surrounding them at their borders. William parry

who was then the secretary of state, via defence under bill Clinton, threatened resign. He was so upset by this plan to move nato to ease. and william earns. Who is then, the? U s, a massive itself in whose now, at this moment the head of the see. I said at the time the same thing: if you do this, it is going to be the russians toward a military response and the we we we moved it we moved all around russia. We moved to forty nations a thousand miles to the east and we put ageist missile systems and two nations remain in poland. So we did. What you know with the russians had done to us in nineteen. Sixty two that had provoked would have provoked an invasion of cuba. We put those missile systems back there and then we walk away.

Unilaterally, walk away from the two nuclear missile treaty as the intermediate nuclear missile treaties that we had with the soviet union with russia and when neither of us would put on those missile systems on the borders walk away from the aren't, we put ages missile systems which are nuclear capable can carry the tomahawk missiles which nuclear warheads of the last country that they didn't. Take you in the russian said and an effective perry said as he or william burned at it? Now that the aid is a red line? If we go into. If we bring nato and ukraine at its a red line for the russians, they cannot live with it. They cannot limit that russia has been invaded three times through the ukraine. it was invaded. We kill other german one out of every seven russians they destroy my uncle described. What had happened to roger in it

famous american university speech and in eighteen sixty three sixty years ago this month or he's our last month, sixty years ago, in June gent, ten nineteen sixty three. He told that speech was telling me. How can people put yourself in the shoes? The russians. We need to do that if we're going to, if we're going, to make peace any or all of us have been taught, you know that we won the war, but we didn't win or that rush, and if anybody won the war against hitler was the russians their country was destroyed. They they all of their city, anything imagine if all of the cities on the east coast of chicago were reduced to rubble and all of the fields burns. All the forest burns asked what happened at russia, that's what they gave so that we could get rid of adolf hitler and he had them.

themselves in their position and in today there is none of our happening. We have refused repeatedly to talk to the russians. We ve broken up there to treaties the minsk agreements which the russians were willing to sign, and they said we will stay out with the russians. Didn't want the ukraine there Oh, that when they, when the dumbass reach and voted ninety, I ten even go to russia boons, and now we want you kindly they aim to act, but we want you to minsk accords to do you know the ape. The russians were very worried because of the. U s: involvement in the coup in ukraine and twenty fourteen And then the oppression and when the killing of fourteen thousand ethnic russians and russia hasn't nat mad same. Read it the same way that if mexico would ages missile systems from china,

russia, on our border and killed fourteen thousand experts, american. We would go in there. Oh, he does have a national security interest in the ukraine. He has an interest in protecting the russian speaking people of ukraine yeah. I think russians and, the minsk accord is at it. It left ukraine as part of russia and left him as a semi autonomous region that could and continue to use their own language, which is essentially banned by a coup by the government we put in at twenty fourteen. And I m we wouldn't get wee wee, sabotaged an agreement, an end, and we now and of twenty twenty two and Putin had anchor deal already to another peace agreement and that the united states and boring

Johnson than the accounts and the white house and poorest odds and over to the ukraine to sabotage that agreement. So what do I think? I think this is a proxy or I think this late in it's late war that the new currency in the white house wanted they ve said for two decades. They want this war and that they want. You use ukraine as a pawn in a proxy or between the united states and russia. At the same time as we used afghanistan and they in fact, they say it. This is the model, let's use the afghanistan model that was at again and again, and to get the russians to over, extend their troops and then fight them using local fight. There's an u s, weapons and what president Biden was asked. Why are we in the ukraine? He was honest he's as to depose vladimir, regime change for Vladimir Putin and when his defence secretary austin in April twenty twenty two was asked in a while,

we there he's add two degrees, the russians capacity or fight anywhere to exhaust the russian army and the great its capacity to fight elsewhere in the world ass, not a humanitarian mission. That's not what we were told. We were. We All this was not unprovoked and asian about that. Were there to bring a humanitarian relief to the ukrainians, but that is the opposite. That is war of nutrition and is designed to chew up a turn. This little nation into an abattoir death for the flower of ukrainian youth in or to advance a geo political ambition of certain people within the white house in other. I think that's wrong. We should be talking to the russians through a that. You know Nixon talked to brezhnev the way that bush talk to gorbachev, the way that my uncle talked to crucial, We need to be talking with the russians we should and and and and negotiating, and we need to be low.

About. How do we end as and preserve peace in Europe? Would you. as president sit down and have a conversation was Vladimir Putin The item is lansky separately and together. she'll these absolutely what above one report and he's been in power since two thousand so as the old adage goes, power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely. I do think he has been corrupted by being in power for so long if you think of the mail. If you look at the smiled, listen I don't know exactly. I can't say, because I just I don't know enough about him or about europe might be evidence that I've seen is at. He is his. He kills is is our boys in them and in other ways

I've seen too that to hit those accusations from him had not been denied, but to a kind of laugh it off think he's a dangerous man and that, of course, in oh there's, probably corrupt. And then his regime. But, having said that is not our business to change the russian government and anybody who thinks a good idea to do. Regime change in russia, which has more nuclear weapons than we do, is, I think, a responsible and in a block of marble, of his head. You know where we will not live in a world without russia, and it was clear when he said that he was talking about himself and and he has his on a button. I could bring an arm again the entire planet. So why are we messing with as it's not our job to change that regime and and we should be making fair friends with russians we

and be treated as an enemy who now we push them into the camp, which I know has not a good thing for our country. and by the way what we're doing out does not appear to be weakening putin at all. Who now you know if you believe that the poles, coming out of russia show him in the most recent polls that I've seen show him with that. Eighty nine percent popularity that people in russia support the war and ukraine and at an they supporting him as an individual. oh and I understand, there's problems with polling and you know you don't know what to believe, but the polls consistently show that and- and I you know it's not america's business- to be the policemen of the world and to be changing regimes the world illegal or not. We shouldn't be breaking international laws. We

actually I'll, be looking for ways to improve relationships with russia or two in or not to destroy russia not to destroy and not the chooses leadership for them adds up to the russian people. Not us, so step one is to sit down and empathize with the leaders of both nations to understand their history that concern Their hopes just have to open the door for can conversation so they're not back to the court. And I think the u s can play- are really important role I? U s president, can play a really important or all by rub, reassuring the russians that we're not going to consider them an enemy anymore, that we want to be friends and it Does it mean that you have to let down your guard completely that way they you, two of which was the way present candidate, that it is you? Do it one step at a time you take baby steps, we do a unilateral of red. whose are in our art.

Already in a crash in and see if the russians reciprocate and and that's the way we should be doing it and we should be easing our way into account. Positive relationship with russia. We have a lot in common with russia and we should be friends with russia and with the russian people, and you know, Only there's been three hundred and fifty thousand ukrainians at least in this war and and there's probably been. sixty or eighty thousand russians, and that should not give has any joy. It should give us any in. I saw lindsey, I'm on tv sang in oh anything, weaken something to than anything we can do to kill. Russians is a good use of our money that it is not

in a way those are those somebody's children there they're in oh, we should have compassion for them. This war is an unnecessary will or we should settle it through negotiation through diplomacy through state graph and not through weapons, do think this work and come to an end purely through military operations I mean the unarmed think, there's any way in the world at the ukrainians can be the russians. I don't think there's any appetite in Europe. I think europe is now in in having severe problem In germany, ITALY, France, you're, saying these riots there's internal problems in those countries. There is no appetite in in europe for sending men die. in ukraine and the ukrainians do not have anybody laugh. The ukrainians are using pay It's gangs to do in order to fill the ranks their armies, men of h, men are

as far as they can to get out of the ukraine right now. To avoid going to the front of run out with the russians apparently happened, killing ukraine, Seventy one ratio lights on over there- and he told me it's an early in order to add here, firefights with russians, mainly at night, but he's and most of the battles were artillery wars during the day and that the russians now out out gun the name, forces tend to one and artillery of air killing at a horrendous rate? Out with my interpretation of what's happened so far? Is that. who actually when in early on with a small force, because he expect to meet somebody on the other end of the negotiations tabled at once. He went in and in that way, didn't happen. They didn't

I have a large enough for us to be able to mount an offensive, and so they ve been building up there. force up to now, and they now have that force and even against this all original force. The ukrainians have been a hopeless helpless. All offensive died. They now kill. You know that the ukrainian special forces, which was probably arguably by many accounts the best elite military unit of Europe, they the command and at the commander of the special forces group at gave a speech about four months ago, saying that eighty six percent of his men are dead or wounded and will cannot return to the front. He cannot rebuild that force and the ah- and you know the the the troops that are now headed that are now filling the gaps

all those three hundred and fifty thousand men and lost- are our scantily trained and arrived. being green at the front. Any of them do not want to be there. Many of them are giving and going over the russian side. We ve seen this again and again again, including platoon sized groups that are affecting the reactions, and I don't think it. possible in and anybody. You know I saw I, of course I've studied world war to history, eggs. does what he meant eyes a there's, a new. I think it's a netflix series documentaries. I heartily and the people there is their colorized versions of the black and white films from the battles of world war Joe. But it's all the battles were. What do I want startling, grad, the other night and

The willingness of the russians to to fight on against any kind of ours and make you sacrifices of russia, the russians themselves or making a sacrifice with their wives the willing of them to do that for their motherland is almost inexhaustible. It is incomprehensible to think that the eu, Ukraine can beat rush or it would be like mexico beating the united states, is it just it's impossible to think that it can happen and you know russia, as has deployed I need tiny fraction of its military so far, and in an hour China, with its mass production capacity, supporting its war effort at just, say it's a hopeless situation and we ve been. I too were that the present

Our country and our governments are just are just in promoting this lie that third ukrainians about to win- everything's going grade, and then moving on the rhine and there's all this wishful thinking because of the Wagner new group in other. It goes Yin and the wagner group that this was an internal coup and showed descent and weakness, support and another. That is true, I was, without that insurgency, which wasn't even in surges? He only got four thousand is of his men to follow amount of twenty thousand, and they were quickly stopped and nobody in the russian military, the oligarchy, the political Nobody supported it in our and by were being told, oh at the beginning of the end for blue putin is weak, and is wounded. He is on his way out, and all of these things are just lies that we are being fed sandwich. Can a small aspect to this kind of implied. So I have travelled ukraine and one thing:

Then I should say similar to the battle stalingrad. It is just not It is not only the russians that fight to the end. I think ukraine is a very real to fight to the end in the morale there is quite high. I've talked to nobody. As a year ago, in august with her son, everybody was proud to fight, for their country and there's some aspects where this war unified the people to get gave them reason and other standing that this is what it means to be a green and I will fight to the death ass loud. I you know, I would agree with that, and I should have said that myself at the beginning, that that's what reason. My son went over there to fight because the you know he was inspired by the valor of the ukrainian people and that this extraordinary willingness of them- and I think, Putin thought it would be much easier to sweep into ukraine any In our own wall of ukraine is whether ready, but there,

Their lives and their bodies on the line, but that to me makes the the whole episode even more tragic. Is that in oh- and I don't believe I I- I think, that the? U S, role in this I'm has been had you know that they're, the ones that were many opportunities this war and the ukrainians want settle a lot lansky when he ran and twenty nineteen years guy was a comedian Say I is an actor: he had no polluter experience, and yet he on this election was seventy percent about why you wanna peace platform one promising to sign a mere words and yet somehow It happened when he got it in the air that made him suddenly pivot, and you know I think it's a good guess what happened. I think he was you know he can under threat. I often achelous ash was within his own administration and the

insistence of near cons like Victoria in ireland and the white house that in no way want peace with boat and we want a war. Wave on nuclear war. yeah. I worry about it hits. It seems like a silly question, but it's not. Is a serious question or the reason it's not reason it it might it's not it's just because people seem to be in this dreams, eight about then I'll, never happen. And yet in a word. It can happen easily and it can happen at any time, and you know if we push the russians too far in our I. I don't doubt that wooten, if he felt like his regime, was in here or his name. And was in danger that the united states was gonna, be in place No, I'm a quisling on in our in into the kremlin dad

he would use nuclear torpedoes. and in these these strategic weapons that I have, and that could be the Yet once you do that nobody controls the trajectory by the way and all I have. I have very strong memories of the cuban missile crisis and of those thirteen days when we came closer to nuclear war in particular. I think it was when you took out shut down over cuba at you know, and Nobody in this cut there's a lot of people in washington, d c, o at that point, thought that they very male male well may wake up dead. What the world may end at night, thirty million can killed one hundred and thirty billion russians. This is what our military brows

on, if they or with russia. Nuclear exchange with russia is not only inevitable but also desirable, because I wanted to do it now. We still at superiority. He actually go through the feelings you ve had about the cuban missile I says like what what are your memories of? It was what are some interesting to know in the middle as I was going to school and wash in it is eat who to sit of or to harm our lady of victory, which is in Washington DC. So we were where I lived in virginia across dont make, and we would ask the bridge every day and d say and during the crisis are you marshals came to my house to take us think roundy aid, my father. with banning night at the white house he wasn't coming on. He was starting with the ex cop committee and sleeping there, and they were up in twenty four hours a day- were debating and faint trying to figure out what what's happening, and

I don't we had us marshals, come to our house to take us down. They were going to take us down to an hoa at white sulphur springs and and insult virginia in the blue ridge mountains, where there was a there was an underground serious essentially a bunker that was like a city and apparently it had mcdonalds in it and a lot of other. You know it was a full city for the? U s. Government and their families owe us I just came to our hearts to take us down there and I was very excited about doing it, and this was at a time. You know what we were doing: drills we're doing that ducking coverage or else one We got our school. He would tell you is that in one the alone, worms go off the and then you you put your head under the table. You take the shower, remove the sharps from your desk, let them inside your desk, you put your head under the table and you wait and the initial blast will take the windows out of the school

and then we all stand up and and file in an orderly fashion into the basement, were we're gonna be for the next six months or whatever in the base and where in we leave occasionally those corridors, were lined with free trade, food cannisters up to this from floor to ceiling, so people were in a we were all preparing for this- and it was- you know, Bob mcnamara- who is my little friend of Mine- And you know it's my father when my father's close sector advance later cause mass psychosis and my father deeply regretted participating in the bomb shelter program because he said it was part of an a you know, a psychological psyop trick or treat 'em to teach americans that nuclear war was acceptable. it will serve I've about my father anyway, when it, when the marshal came to our house. Take me my brother, Joe away and,

with, we were the ones who her home at that time might father called and he talked to what's on the phone- and he said are you going down there because he- because, if you just beer from school people are gonna panic and I need you. Be a good soldier and go to school at one end and he said, to me during that period, which was that an app and it would be better to be among the dead and the living which I did not believe. Ok, I mean I I had already prepared myself of the disturbing in future and I knew I could I every day in the woods. I knew that I could survive by catching graph, cooking mud puppies to whatever I had to do, but I felt like ok, I can. I can, I add a little:

really wanted to say this at the end of this underground city, an eight wait. I was in a part of it Were me, my father was away in the last days of it I father got. This idea is crucial. It sent two letters, is an on letter. That was conciliatory and then he said, a letter that, after his joint chiefs, ended we're mongers around and saw that letter and they disapproved of it. They sent another letter that what six wrinkly belligerent and my father had the idea. Let's just put pretend we didn't get the second letter and reply to the first one and then he went down to dobrynin and was he met a brandon and the justice department and the brennan was the

soviet ambassador, and they, you know they propose this settlement, which was a secret settlement or crew chef would withdraw the missiles from cuba. Khrushchev had put them as cuba because we had put missiles in a nuclear missiles and work in italy, and my uncle's secret deal was that if he, if crucial, remove the missiles from cuba within six months, he would get rid of the jupiter missiles in turkey. But if khrushchev told anybody about the deal it was off. So if, if news got out about that secret deal. It was off, but out was the actual deal and grew chef complied with in and then my uncle complied with at how much of that part of history turned on the decisions of one person. I think as one of the outcomes that, of course, the perennial question right. What is this and kind of

nomadic pilot in one human this agency decision leaders? really only have out of marginal incremental bearing on what is going to happen anyway. But I think that is the end. Historians argue about another time. I think that it is a really good example of a play of a place in human history. That literally the world good abandoned if we had a different in the white house, and the reason for that is that there were As I recall, sixty four gunning placements, you know miss misery emplacement, each one of those misled placements had a crew of about a hundred men And they were soviet, oh, it were and lay We didn't know whether we had a couple of questions and my uncle asked.

Ellen DE or as the cia and he as a dollars was already gone, but he asked the cia and he asked his military brass cause. They all wanted to go in. Everybody wanted to go ahead and my uncle's head, my uncle asked to see the aerial photos he and he examined those personally in this. Why is important? Have it a leader in the white house who can push back on there? iraq received he and then he asked them. You know what are the one who's manning, those missiles idaho who and are they russians? And if they are russians and we bomb them or are they is I can, of course, crucial to then go into berlin, and now would be the begin, of a cascade of fact. I would like. And a nuclear confrontation and eat the the military has said to my uncle a winner

I we don't think it will have the guts to do that. Was my alcohol is like that's why bearing on an They all want them to go in a wanted. It bomb. The sides that invade cuba and he's If we bomb those sites, we're going to be killing russians and it's going to force it's going to provoke russia into some response and the obvious response is for them to go into berlin. Oh, the, but the thing that we did now then we didn't find out until I think there was a thirty year anniversary of the cuban missile crisis in havana and what we ve learned. Man was add from the russians who came to that event Mozilla there like a symposium, where everybody on both sides talked about it and we learned a lot of stuff than an ever: nobody, nobody

one of the insane things. The most in saying that we learned was that the the weapons were already the nuclear warheads were already in place? They were ready. fire and that the authorization into fire was made was delegated to each of the gun club gun crew commanders. So there were sixty b who at all had authorization of fire if they felt themselves under attack. So you have to believe them. At least and would have launch, and that would have been to be getting at the end. And you know if a if anybody launch you know We knew what would happen. My uncle know what would happen does, he asked again and again what's gonna happen, and they said thirty million americans will be killed, but

we will kill one hundred and thirty million russians, so we will win, and that was a victory for them and my uncle said later said he taught he told arthur's azure and Kenny O'Donnell. He said those guys he called him a solid brass, the guys with all of this stuff on there, and he said he's if those guys they don't care, they know that if it happens, they're going to the charge of everything they are. The ones who are gonna be running a world after that for them. In all is there was an incentive to kill a hundred thirty minutes russians and thirty million americans by my uncle. He this corresponded with groups of lay were secretly corresponding with each other, and that is what save the world is that they have both of them had been men of war. Eisenhower families said it won't, it will not be a man of war. it will not be a soldier starts world worth three is a guy is actually seen. It knows how bad it is

I uncle had been in the heat of of the south. Pacific is already been cut into by a japanese destroyer. Is it an even three? It was an epic killed, one of them badly burned. He he pulled that guy with a lanyard and his teeth six miles to the island in the middle of the night, and then they hit out there for ten days in oh and and You know he came back like I said he was the only present united states that are in the purple. Art meanwhile khrushchev had been it's all a grand which was the worst place to be on the planet. In a probably in the twentieth century, others- and you know it out with the death ass- it was I you know it was. It was the most ferocious river or with people starving people committed cannibalism in eating the dogs, the cats eating their shoe leather, where easing to dash them by the thousands etc

after now on the last thing he wanted was a war and, lastly, my uncle or an eight, but this. See. I did not know anything about russia and the eu the reason, for that is the city. There was a mole at langley so that every time the CIA got a spy in the kremlin, he would immediately be killed if they had no eyes and the kremlin, and there were literally hundreds of russia of russian spies, who had who were defective, the united states and are in the gremlin who were killed during that period. They had no idea anything about cruise chef about how he saw the world and they saw the kremlin itself as a monolith. You know that it is, or is kind of you know. I'm way that we look at Putin today that in oh, it's all right this ambition of world conquest and that its driving them and there's nothing else. I think about their. I absolutely single minded about it, but

Actually, that was a big division between khrushchev and I and his joint chiefs and his intelligence apparatus, and they and they both at one point discovered they were both in the same situation. They were surrounded by spies and military personnel who are intent on going to war, and they were the two guys resisting it. So, when my uncle my I had this idea of europe in the peace process. From the beginning, he told Ben bradley his one of his best friends in always publish the watchman both when the editor in chief time he's said. ben Ali asked him what is what do you want your grapes and my uncle said he kept the peace. He said the principal job of pressure on the united to keep the country out of war of and and so when he first begin president. He hid actually agreed to meet

chef in geneva was summit and by the way, eisenhower wanted to do the same thing. Eisenhower wanted peace, his and he was gonna meet in vienna, but at peace summit, was blown up. He was going to try to do you, know he's gonna, try to end the cold war. Eisenhower was the last years of is in may of nineteen sexy, but was tore out by the sea I ate during the youtube crash. You know and you to open it over the soviet nick I shot down and then a toll and then on to us all eyes an hour to deny that we had a programme. They didn't know that the russians had captured airy francis powers and so one an end that blew up the bees. The talks between eisenhower, khrushchev and so at the end of the day lot of tension. I don't want to break that tension. He agreed and ate with.

with russia in vienna early on its term. Over there and crucial snubbed him group of lectured him imperiously. at the in the terror of, and imperialism and and rebuffed Annie, and they did it to go and allows they made an agreement that kept united states became my uncle from sending troops allows, but it has been a disaster vienna. So there We had a spy that used to come to our house all the time I could georgie boy should go. It was this rush and spy might my parents had met at the embassy, They had gone to a party or reception that russian embassy and he had approached them and they knew he was He was a g argue agent and kgb with both. Oh

he used to count. Are they really liked them in a very attractive? He was always laughing and joking, he would do rope climbing contest, my father, he would do push up contest with my father. He was. He could do that russian dancing, that cause act dancing and it would do- that for us and teach us that he will and we knew he was a spy joe, and this was at the time of the James bond. Films were first coming out, so it was really exciting for us, an actual russian spy in our house. The state department was horrified by it, but anyway one crucial after vietnam and after the debate bags, crews have had second thoughts, Any sent this letter to my uncle and he want to go through his into state department arisen

bessie. He wanted enron them by any was friendly bush boy. Oh, he gave georgie the ladder and georgie boy and handed it to be Salinger folded in the new york times, and he gave it to my uncle and it was this beautiful at her when she said in a heap. My uncle, I talked about the church. Waldron who played you know. We we play it. Twenty nine grandchildren playing a yard is what is our moral, is his making a decision that could kill these children says I'll, never write a poem they'll never participate in the election, run for off as well. Can we make a week we morally make a decision that is going to limit eight life or the is beautiful kids, and he said that too,

The groups have ambrosch of wrote in his letter back saying that he was now sitting as its dodger on the black sea and that he was thinking about one iota. Jackets said don't have regretted very deeply, not having taken the olive leave that jacket offer and then he said, you know it occurs to me now that we're all on an ark and that their not another one, and that the entire fate and the planet and all of its creatures and all of the children patent on the decisions we make and you and I have a moral obligation to go forward with each other's and and immediately after that, this was not a isn't that right after the berlin in eighteen sixty two, Curtis. Le may try to had tried to provoke a war.

With an incident checkpoint charlie, which was made the the entrance. The entrance and exit through the berlin all in berlin The russian tanks have come to the wall, the, u s, tanks have come to the wall and it was a stand up and my uncle had had sent a message to khrushchev. Then, through a bran and saying my back is at the wall, I cannot, I have no place to be, please back off and we will back off and khrushchev took his word act. His tanks offers and and my uncle or made a bad back. He and le mai had mounted bulldozer plows on the on the the tanks to to plow down the berlin wall, and that and the russians had come so it was just. You know it was the it was the his generals trying to provoke a war and but they

started talking to each other, and then, when you after he wrote that latter they agreed that they would see as hot line, so they could talk to each other and they wouldn't have to go through intermediaries, and so it attacks house on the cape, though, is a red phone. We know of weeping it's a group effort answer, and it was another one in the white house and but they knew it was important to talk to each other. You know- and you just wish, that we had that kind of leadership that a I can I in other, It just understands our job look. I know you know it. What about a I write and you know how dangerous it is potentially to humanity and what opportunities it also you know offers, but he could kill assortment elon said fruits is going to

our job and it's gonna kill us and it's probably not hyperbole it. Actually in our house, the laws of ideological level which are just the walls of mathematics. That's probably a good end point for a potential employed, so we we need. It's gonna happen: but we need to make sure it's regulated and regulated properly for safety in every country and- and that includes roger and china and iran right now. We we shouldn't be putting all the weapons of war aside and sitting down with us guys and say how we do it. How are we going to do this? There is much more important things to do. We're going to keep this stuff is going to kill us if we don't figure out how to regulate it and and leadership needs to walk down that road

What what is the real risk here and the real risk is that in a high will it will end up in slaves us for one thing and and and and straw us and do all this others them and have a biological happens, we're now all working on these biological weapons and we're doing biological weapons from a ball and and take a fever end you know all of these other bad and we're making as if by weapons via web, They can only your russians, I weapons the chinese are making that in oak or can kill people who don't have judged these genes? Oh all of this is now within reach were actively doing it. And we need to stop it and we can easily that our biological weapons treaty is the easiest thing in the world to do. We can verify it, we can enforce it and where everybody

wants to agree to it. It only in saint people do not want about want to continue this country's urge. There's no reason to do it. No there, these existential threat to all of humanity, now They are like a political biological weapons. We need to start stop fighting each other. art competing on economic game fields, playing fields instead of military playing field, which will be good for all of humanity. And we need to sit down with each other and negotiate reasonable treaties on how we regulate a I and I watched collections, and nobody is talking about this in its political raised right now. Nobody is talking about a government can fix it on these little wars and in our end, these comic book depictions of good versus evil in an hour, and we all go out, and go off and given the weapons and rich in milk

during gushed azure complex, but we're we're on the road to perdition. If we don't end this- and some of this requires they have this kind of phone that connects khrushchev and john F Kennedy that cuts through all the bureaucracy. He ought to have this communication between heads of state and in any case may I perhaps had of tat companies, we can just pick up the phone and have a conversation, because a lot of it The existential threats of artificial intelligence, perhaps even by weapons, is unintentional. It's not even strategic, his actual effects. They have to be transparent and honest about especially today, I people. Might know what was the worst is going to happen? you release around to the wild, and you have to have an honest, come communication about how to do it so Companies are not terrified of regulation over regulation, and then a government is not terrified of tat companies

of manipulating, manipulating them. Some direct or indirect ways so like there's a trust, their bills versus distrust that that seems deserve basically that old phone or khrushchev can call john F Kennedy. His needed here, and you know I don't think, there's listen. I don't understand a ok. I do now. I can see from all this technology how. it's this kind of turnkey totalitarianism. At once. You put these systems in place. Now they can be misused to enslaved people and they can be misused as in wars and in out to subjugate killed, do all these at thanks and I don't think, there's anybody on capitol hill who understands this and we need to bring in the tech community unsafe I was with. These regulations need to look like you know, so that there can be no freedom to innovate so that weaken

milk ay I for all the good things, but not enough fall into these traps that are gonna. Do you know that, with its existential threat to oppose existential existential to him- and it seems like John f Kennedy Singular figure in that he was able to have the humility to reach out to crush of, and also the the strength and integrity to resist the. What did you call this? The salad, salad, brass and, The two issues like this year, also that that makes a particularly tragic that he was killed. I too degree with sheer involved or the various bureaucracy involved in his death. The evidence that the sea I ate was involved in my uncle's murder and that they can that they were subsequently involved in the cover up and and continue to be involved in it.

Women are still five thousand documents that they release sixty years later is, I think, so, insurmountable, and so in one of mountainous and overwhelming? it's beyond any reasonable doubt. Including in out dozens of confessions, had people and of the night in the in the assassination, but do you know all of every kind of document- and you know I mean it came as a surprise recently to most americans. I think the release of these documents, in which that the press, the american media, finally acknowledge that yeah lee harvey Oswald was a cia ass at who is recruited in nineteen fifty seven. He was marina work

at the outer chile air force base and which was the c I a air force base in with a view to flights which was at sea I programme, and that. I he was recruited by James Jesus Angleton, who is the director of counter intelligence and then sent on a fake defection to russia and then brought back. You know all too Did the dallas and people will know that, even though it's been known for decades of the ever percolated into the mainstream media, because they touch in other. If such an analogy to anything that that challenges, the Warren report Oh and congress investigated my uncle's murder. In the end. In the night, didn't. Seventys the church committee detonated in two and a half your investiture,

and they had many many more documents and much more testimony available to them than the Warren commission had. This was is a decade after the warren commission. They came to the conclusion, and my uncle was killed by a conspiracy and the division where essentially one guy on that committee believed it primarily the mafia, rigid schweitzer. the centre of the committee said. And I was right out the sea. I was involved in the murder of the present united states, oh and end the if I've talked him also the staff of the committee and, I said yeah- I'm in the sea I was unwilling us way through and the actual b see I appointed george hunted ease, who oversee ape? when it liaison only a committee, they brought him out of retirement. Ye had been one of the masterminds of the as as an asian, oh

No, I mean I its impact or even talk about a tiny fractionally evidence here what I suggest to people there are hundreds of books written about this you know, assemble this evidence and mobilise the evidence. The best book to me for people to read is James Douglas his book, which is called the unspeakable and he'd douglas? Does this extra? there is an extraordinary scholar and does this amazing job of digesting and some arising in mobilizing all of them in the probably a mill and documented said you know the evidence for all these conventions that have come out into a coherent story and it really to read- and I recommend people do not take my word for it. An out and out take don't take anybody else where it for good

added to that researchers, often one way to do that, is probably the most efficient way. It's red douglas s book. He has all the references there. So true. That say I had a hand in this assassination. How is it possible for them to mass so much power? How is it possible for them to become corrupt and is it Individuals, or is it the entire situation? Now entire institution, my daughter in law, who's, helping my campaign was a c. I a guy clan to sign. Services are all her career. She was a spy and weapons of mass destruction programme in the middle east in china,. And there's twenty two thousand people who work for the sea. I probably twenty thousand of those are our patron.

not a commemorative events and really good public servants and air doing important work for our country, but the institution is corrupt and aunt, because the high ranks the institution in effect might pompiers said something. Like this to me the other day with the director of the sea ice and when I was there, I did not good do a good job of cleaning up that agencies at the entire upper bureaucracy, of that agency are people who do not believe in the institutions of democracy. This. What he's at me I don't know if that is true, but I know that you know that significant needs a smart person and he ran the agency. Any was the secretary of state But it's no mystery how that happened. We know that history, you see, I

it was originally. First of all, there was great reluctance and ninety forty seven that we had it for the first time he had a secret spy agency in this country to earn world war to call the o s s that was disbanded after the war, because congress ed having a secret spy agency, is incompatible with democracy. Secret spy agencies are things that, like the kgb, the stasi in east germany, svod in IRAN and a peep and juliet where, whatever you know, all over the world, they are all have to do with totalitarian governments are not something that you can have it that is antithetical to democracy, to have that. But what, in ninety four seven we created drummond,

at the end, but it was an initially and has been espionage agency, which means information gathering which is important is to get together and consolidate information. many many different sources from all over the world and and put those report. Otherwise. Ask the president can make good decisions based upon valid information. Evidence based in our decision making About an hour who was essentially the first head of the agency made a series of legislative machinations and political manage actions that gave additional powers, the agents and open up the what they called and the plans division, which hits the plans division is that already dregs. It's a black ops fixing elections,

murdering and what they call executive action, which means killing or leaders and in may all wars and and bribing and blackmailing. people, stealing elections, that kind of thing and the reason at that time. You know we're in the middle of the cold war true men, and then I did or did not want to go to war. They didn't want to commit troops and it seemed to them that this was a way of kind of aiding the cold war or sea italy without and doing it at minimal call us. I am by changing events, sort of invisibly, and so was it but everybody in congress when they first voted in a blaze congress. Both political party said, if we we ate this thing. It could turn into a monster. Undermine art in our values

Aid is so powerful and nobody knows what its budget is us it as its own investment fund and kicked out which has invested in a made. I think two thousand investments silicon valley. Oh, it has ownership of a lot of these tech companies and you know, and the a lot of the ceos those tech companies have signed state secrecy agreements with the cia which, if they even reveal that they have signed that they can go to jail for twenty years and have their assets, removed the era of the influence that the agency has. The capacity to influence events at every level in our country are is lee frightening and then, for most of its for most of its life, the cia was banned from propagandizing americans. But we learn that they were doing it anyway. Nineteen, seventy three. During the church committee hearings, we learned

that the cia arab program called operation mocking bird. Where they had at least four hundred members leading members that the united states press corps our times the Washington post, ABC Cbs, NBC, etc, who hers greatly working for the agency and and steer news coverage to support cia priorities and they agreed at that time to disband Operation mockingbird and seventy three, but there's there's indications. They didn't do that and they still that the aid is the biggest fonder of journalists around the world. More the biggest funders through you s, idea U s a united states monster, let them in almost every country in the world. Only news hers head as journalists. Thousands passage was on its breadth, payroll.

must be doing that in the united states. But you know Sixteen president obama change the law to make it legal. Now for the sea, I ate a propaganda as americans, and I think We can look at the EU grain war and how that was, you know has been Now the narrative has been performed in the minds of americans and say that this has nothing to do with. what is the mechanism by which to say influences the narrative. Do you think it's indirectly, through the press indirectly through the press, are directly by funding the press directly through give em. I mean there are certain press organs that have been linked to the agency that the people run those organs. Things like the daily beast now rollings not really no nourish lackman as deep relationships with the intelligence commute The salon daily cos

but I wonder why they would do it. From my perspective, it just seems like the job of a journalist and integrity were european, cannot be influenced or bought. I agree with you, but I actually think the entire field of journalism has. As you know, Well he ashamed itself in recent years, because it it's become in other the principal newspapers in that country, It is excellent that the legacy media have a And an air their traditional, their tradition of of which was when I was a kid. The house was filled with the greatest journalists alive. At that time, people like Ben bradley, like anthony louis mary migratory, eat while jerry jack new field jimmy bread, many many others, and after my father after my father, died. These

the article journalism awards. Wrecking eyes, integrity and courage, journalistic terry and call for courage and for that generation of journalism they they thought. They believed that the function of journalist was to maintain this past, fear scepticism towards any aggregation of power and including government authority. You always blunt authority lie and away. They always have to be question an end and that their job was to speak with the power and the big guardians of the first amendment right to who reaction But if you look, what happened during the pandemic was inverse that kind of journalism where the major press organs in this country were, instead of speaking with the power, they were doing, the opposite. They were broadcasting propaganda, they became product

and organs for the gunman agencies, they were actually censoring the speech of dissent. Anybody sense of the powerless, and in fact it was was an organised conspiracy and it was the name of it trust news initiative and some of the major press organs in our countryside onto it, nay agreed not to print stories or fax to add that departed from government orthodoxies. Otherwise in the post was the signature of the epa, the eight p and then the and for me, for social media groups, microsoft, twitter, facebook in google also and onto the trust. In his initiative and wisdom, by the BBC, organised by name and the purpose of it,

was to make sure nobody could print anything about government that departed from government as it acts as a way it worked as the? U p I and the a p, and they was at the news service that provide most of the news. Under this around the country and the washington post with decide what news was permissible to print. and a lot of it was about covered, but also hunter binds laptops. Were you. It was the impermissible to suggest that those were real, that, in our day, had of under that was compromising and and which you know about hey I'm this. What I'm telling you know is all well documented, I'm litigating on it right now, so I'm part of a lawsuit against the dear I and so I know a lot about what happened, and I have all this to and in people can go to our website. There's a letter on my subject now to Michael share of the washington post there

What's all this gives out my sources because Michael Cherry, use me of being a conspiracy theories when he was actually part of a conspiracy, a true conspiracy to suppress anybody who is departing from government orthodoxies by either censoring them completely or labeling, conspiracy theories, I mean you can understand the intention, and the action the difference between those who talk about going can understand. The intention of such a thing being good did time of a catastrophe of a pandemic there's, a lot of risk to saying untrue things, but that's a slippery slope to leeds in two years as a place where the journalistic integrity that we talked about is completely sacrificed

and then you could deviate from truth. If you read their internal memorandum, including the statements of the leader of a trusted news and which I think are named jessica, jennifer cecil. and I know you can go on our website and serious a minute. She said she says. The purpose of this is that we are now. I say she says when people look at us, they think competitors, but we're not the real competitors are coming from all these alternative knitted sources. Now, Oliver than at an and air. Hurting public trust in us and their hurting our economic model, and we have that they have to be choked off and crushed and and the way that we're gonna do. That is to make an agreement with it media sites that, if we say, if we label their information misinformation, the social media sides will hold deep that format or they will throttle at or they will shadow bennett.

Which destroys the economic model of those alternative, competitive sources of information, so that that droop and and but the point you make- is important point that the journalists themselves, who probably didn't know about the dna agreement, certainly am sure they didn't they believe that they doing the right thing by suppressing information that may challenge in oak proclamations uncovered, but I mean there a danger that the danger is that once you wait yourself, an arbiter of what's true in which not true, then really know, and the power that you You have now assumed for yourself because a now eat your your job is no longer to inform the public. Your job now is to manipulate the public

and if you end up manipulating the public up in collusion with powerful entities, and you become the instrument of authoritarian rule rather than the you know, the the opponent of it and it becomes the inverse of journalism in a democracy. you're running for president as a Democrat, what do you are the strongest values that represent the left wing politics on this country? I would say: protection of the environment the comments in the air. The water of life is reached by the glance in other those assets. They cannot be reduced to private property owners in the landscapes are purple mount majesty of the protection of the most vulnerable people in our society. People

which would include children and minorities, the the restoration of the middle class. You know the n and a potential labour dignity and in a decent pay for labor, But bodily autonomy on women's rights It is, or an individuals right to endure unwanted medical procedures and peace. You know that Democrats have always been anti war. That refusal to use here is a governing tool of empty, are set, the only thing we have to fear fear itself recognised that tyrants and dictators can use fear to decide or critical thinking and and

an overwhelming desire for personal liberty. The free, I've got men from untoward influenced by corrupt corporate bower? That's the end of this rub merger of the state and corporate power that is now act, our democracy. Would eisenhower warned about only warn against the emergence of the military industrial complex, and then I prefer to talk about the positive vision of what we should be doing in our country and globally witches, and I see that it corporations are come on enticing eyes. Poisoning our children are stripped mining, the wealth from middle class.

treating america's if business, liquidation, converting assets cash as quickly as possible and in know end and Creating or exacerbating this here disparity in wealth and our country, which is eliminating the middle class and creating you no kind of latin american style futile model. There is a these huge aggregations of wealth above and wide, it just read poverty below and that's configuration that is too unstable to support democracy sustainably. You know and mostly modeling democracy, but we're losing it. And I think we ought to have a foreign policy stores our moral authority around the world stuart restores? america as the embodiment of authority,

and which it was when my uncle is president and as a purveyor of peace in warlike nation, my uncle said he didn't want people in africa, atlanta I can asia to think of anything. America to picture a man with a gun and a bayonet. He wanted them to think of a peace corps, volunteer, and he refused us and combat utterance comments. Soldiers He never said a single soldier to his death abroad and I, in the out into combat his aunt. Sixteen thousand resisted in berlin and sixty two he resisted in ends. Extreme resisted and envy

vietnam they wanted, and about two hundred and fifty thousand troops. He only put sixty thousand advisers, which was fewer people, fewer jobs and needs, and to get James meredith into the and the universe to ole, miss in oxford, mississippi one black man, I said sixteen thousand and a month before he died it or ordered them all help me. Actually, I fingers october. Second, nineteen sixty three the green berets had died. and he asked his aid for eight combat list of combat fatalities, the aide came back and there were just seventy five men had died in vietnam at that point and he said as to marry have no more any ordered he sighed and national security order to sixty three. And ordered all those men. All americans hung from vietnam by nineteen sixty five with a firm, thousand coming up by december. Sixty three.

And then in november. He, of course, just before that evacuation me and he was killed and a week later, president johnson remand order, and then a year after that, the talking of resolution we sent two hundred fifty thousand, which is what they wanted my uncle to do, which he refused, and then, and it became an american or Nixon adopted off at five hundred and sixty thousand these. Six thousand americans never came home, including my cousin, george, oh, who died at the tat offensive and- he killed a million. Vietnam is and we got nothing for it. So america should be the symbol of peace, and you know today my uncle in a really focused on putting america. Side of the poor, instead of our tradition in out of of

modifying oligarch ease that we're anti communism. Now is our in our major criteria. If you said europe against communist and of course the people were with the rich people, It was going to the rich people in those countries and they were going to the military hunt. Us our weapons work does to fight against the poor and My uncle said no, you know america should be on that side of the poor, and so he launched the alliance for progress and usa ID, which were intended to bring aid to the poorest people in the us and build middle classes and and take ourselves away. In fact, his most favorite trip him his two favorite trips, while he was present with his most favorite trip, was to ireland. So this is incredible

emotional home, coming for all of the people of ireland and his second favoured trip was when he went to colombia in latin america, but colombia was his favorite country and we, it was two million people came into bogota as a m, this cheap vast crowd and they were just still delirious cheering for him. and the present common be yet a kind of arable. I'm said to him: do you know I love you? and my uncle said why he said because they think you've put on the side of the poor against the oligarchs, and you know when my uncle after he died today. There are more avenues and boulevards and hospitals and schools named have and statutes named. after commemorating and parks commemorating kennedy in africa and latin america than any other present the united states

probably more than all the other, presents combined, and it's because you know put america on the side of the poor and that's what we ought to be doing. We oughta be projecting miller economic power abroad. The chinese essentially stolen his playbook and in a We ve spent eight trillion dollars on iraq, war and its aftermath wars and syria, yemen, libya in afghanistan, pakistan, and what do we get for that? We had nothing for that, my eight trillion dollars. We got we killed more iraqis and saddam Hussein. Iraq today is, as it is, a matter worse much worse If then, it was when saddam was there I'd, say it's an incoherent, violent war between shia and sunni death squads. We pushed iraq into the embrace of iran, which I'll become essentially a proxy for iran.

which is exactly the outcome that we were trying to prevent for the past twenty or thirty years. We, ices we sent Two million refugees into europe, stabilizing, all of the nation's ear of regeneration, sort. Now seeing these riots and in france and as a direct result the syrian war that we created an and they are creation of ice. It breaks it s an other in result that so we prefer a trillion dollars. We read, the world and during that same period that we spent eight point one trillion dollars. Bombing bridges poured schools, hospitals, the chinese by eight point, one trillion dollars, building schools, ports, hospitals, bridges and- And universities

and now you know the chinese are are out competing as everywhere in the world. Everybody wants to deal with the chinese because they know they come in a a build nice things for you and they and there's no strings attached and they're pleasant to deal with, and, and you know, as a result of that Brazil is switching the chinese currency, Argentina is switching saudi arabia, our greatest partner, that we put trillions of dollars into protecting our oil pipelines there, and now they are saying we we don't. We don't care what the united states think. As with my mom and then salem said, he said we don't he they. He dropped oil production in saudi arabia, in the middle of a. U S, inflation spiral

We're done. That does, of course, aggravate the inflation spar and two weeks later and a signed a deal. A unilateral peace deal with IRAN, which has been enemy that we ve been telling them to be a bulwark against for twenty years and to accept Obviously we don't care with the united states. Thanks aim, or so that's what we got for spain. all those trillion dollars there. We got short term friends and the united states Well, let's see abroad, and we have not made ourselves safer. We've made americans we've put americans in more jeopardy all over the world. You know you have to wait in lines to get through the airport and you after another securities eight is out and causing us one point three trillion dollars. America is unsafe, poorer and poorer than itself solely in a whirl and are getting we be doing what president Kennedy said. We ought to do and what china,

a policy that china has now adopted so that really eloquent and clear and powerful description of the waves, You should be doing your politics and the way I see you should be taken care of the poor in this country. Let me ask you a question from Jordan. Peterson. and he asked when I told him that speaking with you are given everything you have said: when does the left go too far? I suppose he is referring to cultural issues. I daily politics Oh, you know John trying to get me to ban mouth. Alas, all time I was in a hurry I really enjoyed my my my talk with them, but he seemed to have that agenda where he wanted me to you know, say bad things about the left. I just you know: My campaign is about. I want to do the opposite, unlike

admiral have they try. I know I was on this week with david remedy from then your current. He tried again made a bad mouth donald trump and in our like jones and a lot of other people, just end and aiding me to do it and of course there is a lot of bad things. I could say about all those people, but it doesn't you our I'm, trying to fine I'm trying to find values that hold us together and we can sharing common rather than to focus, constantly aunt knees disputes and these issues than driver support. Some me sitting here, bad mouthing the left or bad mounting a right is on it with vance the ball. I really want to figure out ways that you know what do these guys? hold in common that we can all I have a shared vision of what we want this country that look like. Well, that's music to my ears, but, in that spirit. Let me ask you a difficult question, then

you wrote a book harshly criticising anthony faulty. Let me ask you this demand the case for the people who support him. What is the biggest positive thing you think anthony found she did for the world. What is good? is done for the world, especially during this pandemic. I dont want to sit here and speak on charity by saying that I am. didn't do anything, but I I don't. I can't think of anything I mean. Have you. If you tell me something that you think he did in a maybe there was a drug that got licence. but he was in an age that, in a benefit people that certainly possible. He was there for fifty years I, in terms of his obvious principle, programmes have the aids programmes and has covered

programmes, and I think that the harm that he did vastly outweigh the benefits. You think he believes he's doing good for the world. I don't know what he believes in fact in that book, which is, I think, two hundred and fifty thousand work I never try to look inside of it. I d idea with facts idea with science and I have read every factual assertion that book is. Cited in source to government elevates or peer reviewed publications, and I don't I not to speculate about things that I don't know about. I can prove, and I didn't I cannot- tell you what his motivations were. I in all of us he's done his thing. A lot of things think are really very, very bad things. humanity, a very deceptive. We all have to decide on this capacity for self deception. As I said at the beginning, as pod cause, we, we judge ourselves on our intentions rather than our action.

We all have an almost infinite capacity to convince ourselves that what we're doing is is right and I'm out Not everybody kind of lives and examined life, and it is happening there, motivations in a way that the world might experience their professions of goodness me ask about the difficulty of the job he had. You think it's possible to do that kind of job well, or is it also of another flood, the job of being the central centralized figure? That's supposed to now scientific I see now. I think he was a genuinely bad human being and that there are many, many good people and add department over the earth these areas are really good example, John anthony or as many people whose careers he destroyed, because they were trying to tell the truth

one after the other, the greatest scientists in the history of an age run out of that organization, that agency, but in up I've people listening to this. I you probably in hearing you say that will think that I'm better than I am imagineer about him? But you know you should really going read my book and I it's hard some arise a and I tried to be really methodical not call names detail did just what happened? Ah, you are the bigger picture. This is your an outspoken critic of the pharmaceutical companies, big farmer. What is the biggest problem with big farm and how can it be fixed The problem could be fixed regulation. You know the problems, my phone,

suitable industry is. He is I mean I don't wanna say because this gonna see mix written that criminal enterprise, but if you look at that, history that is applicable to our characterisation, for example, if the four biggest vaccine, acres, sanofi, merk, pfizer and glaxo, for companies that make all of the seventy two accidents that are now mandated for america effectively mandate for american children collect. Lee. Those companies have paid thirty five billion dollars in criminal penalties and damages in the last decade, and I think two thousand about. Seventy. Nine billion

the most corrupt companies in the world and the problem is that their cereal felons. They owe they do this again and again and again so A via in american firefox, which, by acts in other, killed people by falsifying science, and they did it, they lied public. They said this is a headache, medicine arthritis painkiller, but they didn't tell me well that it also gave your heart attacks and they knew in a week when we them there in other men, from there being counters ang we're gonna, kill this many people, but we're still going, I make money they make them calculations and those calculate are made very, very regularly and then in a when they, when they caught they, they pay battled,

and I think they paid about seven billion dollars for vioxx, but then they went right, that same year, the debate, apparently they I went back into the same, again, with garda civil and with a whole lot of other drugs, so is awaited. system set up the way that its old doctors the way that nobody ever going to jail, so there is really no penalty that it all become part of the cost of doing business. And you know you can see other businesses that, if they're not if they know, if there's no penalty, if there's no real, but I mean look? Is the companies if, as the opium epidemic right, so they I knew it was going to happen and we, you know you go and see, there's a documentary. I forgot the name of it is, but it shows exactly what happened and they corrupted have the a they knew that the the that article

and was addictive. They got FDA to tell doctors that it wasn't addictive, they pressured after a lie and they got their way an ape so far they like this year, in those they got a whole generation addicted to go down and now in when they got caught and they made it. We in order to get article on it. Now all those addicted goods are going there no I'm dying and this year killed. One hundred and six hundred, sixty thousand that's twice as many people were killed during the year during the twenty year, vietnam war, but in one year twice as many american kids they knew it was gonna happen and they did it to make money. So I don't know what you call that saying: that's you know a criminal enterprise and was is possible to have within a capitalist system to produce medication to produce drugs at scale in a way that is not corrupt. Have yours in his

How, through a guy in out through a solid regulatory, regimen or drugs, are actually tested? I mean the problem is the capitalist system? Listen I'm in I have great admiration for the love of the capitalist system is the greatest economic and engine ever devised, but it has to be, Turning to a social purpose Otherwise it's going to. It leads us in the yard and a trail of of all the our key environmental destruction and in o end auditors, poisoning in and killing human beings as what it will do and in the end, that's right in it a regulatory structure that is that it is not a rubbed it.

I entanglement financial entanglements with the industry, and we ve set this up the way. This is a system that, up today, has created this system of regulatory capture. Steroids, almost fifty percent of the aid budget comes from pharmaceutical companies. The people work at F d, a r their money is coming, their salaries are coming from farmer half their salaries. Oh there, they know who their bosses are, and that means getting those drugs done and getting them out the door and approved as quickly as possible. It's called fast track approval and they pay. Fifty per fifty percent of the year's budget goes about. Forty five percent actually goes to fast track approval. Do you think money can buy integrity? Oh yeah, of course, again in re re yeah I mean there's not,

something that is that is controversial. Of course, it will o and then went on to rational to me, I'd like to think that cycle is that women are able to bite. You aren't take up talking about population wide, I'm not talking of individual but I've, I too believe that scientists I mean it. In general career, a scientist is not a very high paying job. I like to believe that people are going to science. There were And after their work at an age are doing it for a reason: that's not even correlated with money really. I think, probably that's why they go in there, but scientists are corrupt them all, and you know the way the way that I can tell you that is then I've brought over five hundred laws is an almost autumn involves the controversies and there are scientists on boats eyes. Everyone I went.

Is when we said monsanto there was an amount set aside. There was a year of scientists at stanford scientists at harvard scientists and on ours, either the yale stanford and harvard scientists, and they were tired, saying exactly the opposite. Thanks back, there's a word for those kind of scientists who take money for their opinion and the words by asked it pits. And they are very, very common- and in oh and I Dealing with with my whole career in I was up there. Claire, is at its very difficult to persuade him and of a fact if the exist, in fact we all diminishes salary, and I think that's true for all of us as a we find a way, reconciling ourselves the things that are or did did you actually and world is actually benefit. Are our salaries now and I age

an age has probably the worst system, which is that cited work written age and I m itself, which used to be the pre miracle standards had giving the agency in the world. Nobody looked at an age at today. It's just an incubator, pharmaceutical drugs and, and that is the gravity of economic self interest, because if you're, if an eye each itself collects royalties, lay have margin. for the patents on all the drugs that they work on over them to earn a vaccine which they promoted incessantly and aggressively h on fifty percent. I've examines making billions and billions of dollars on it and there are for at least for scientists that we know of, and probably at least sex. At an age who themselves have large rights for those patent. So if you, science. Is it working at my age. You work on a new drug use,

margin rights rights in europe. To have the royalties hundred and fifty thousand dollars a year forever from that forever or children, your children, children his eyes that products on the market you can collect. Just you have in modern of action is paying for the top people at an age of some of the top regulators is paying for their boats is paying for their mortgages paint for their children's education, and you know you have to expect. that that, in those kind of situations the regulatory function would be subsumed beneath. The mercantile ambitions of the agency itself and a individuals who stand a profit enormously from getting a drug market? Those guys are paid. I us the taxpayer define problems with those drugs before them. market, and if you know that drug is gonna pay for your mortgage, you may

Overlook a little problem and I were even a very big one and that's the problem: We talked about the media slanders you by calling on anti back sir, and You said that you are not anti vaccine you're pro safe vaccine. difficult question: can you name any vaccines that you think a good? I think some of the live. Irish vaccines are probably saw averting more problems than their causing There is no vaccine that is safe and effective. The big word, What about all the earth can we talk about the here's. The problem lip here's the problem, the polio Vaccine contained a virus, It's called simeon virus already ass before he is, which is one of the most carcinogenic materials. That is not an end.

Fact, its use now by scientists around the world to induce tumors in rats and guinea pigs and labs. But it was in that vaccine. Ninety eight million people out of acts in my generation guarded and now you ve had this explosion of soft tissue cancers and our russian that kill many. Many many many many more people than polio ever did If you say, tomatoes eat in a polio vaccine was effective against polio, I'm going to say yes, if I stated, if his enemy didn't kill more people than it did have er cosmology as an effort, I would say I dunno, because we don't have the data annette. Oh, but let's talk well, you knows I'm gonna have to now. In our eyes it effective against. The thing is supposed to fly away, A lot of them are. Let me give you an example popular vaccine in the world. Is the defects and their tennyson porthos it it was used.

has introduced in this country around ninety eighty, that vaccine caused so many entries their eyes, which were the manufacture, was said the reagan administration. We are now paying twenty dollars, downstream liability for every dollar that we're making in profits, and You are getting out the business unless you give us permanent immunity from liability, hold the vaccine companies and were given and by the way reagan said at that time, why don't you just make the vaccine safe? And why said because vaccines are inherently unsafe, said unavoidably on safe, you cannot make them safe, and so one reagan wrote the bill and passed it. The bill says its preamble, because vaccines are unavoidably unsafe and the bruce wits case, which was

supreme court case that uphold about that bill. Use that same language, vaccines cannot be made safe. They are unavoidably unsafe, but this is what the law says now. I just want to finish this story, because it illustrates very well your your question. That way, did we ve actually was discontinued in this country, and I was discontinued in europe because that so many kids being injured by however, the w h our bill gates gives it to a hundred and sixty one million african children have ear and bill gates, went to the danish government and ask them to support this programme. Saying we save thirty million kids from died from tetanus? Does it the danish government's had? Can you show as the data and he couldn't the danish come and paid for a big study? with noble nordisk, which is at the scandinavian acts in company in my staff,

and they want to africa and they looked at the deeply p vaccine for thirty years of data, and they lay Are they retain the best vaccine? Scientist world is cut deities of african axing programme. Peter aid be sacred, morgan sent in a bunch of others, and they look at three. the years of data, it deeply vaccine and they came back and they were shocked by what they found. If I'm back scene was preventing kids from getting dip there, it tetanus practices, but girls who got f axing were ten times more likely to die over the net sick next six months and then children who did and why is that? And they weren't dying from anything anybody it ever associate with facts? of anemia, harsher malaria surpluses, and mainly pulmonary and respiratory diseases and ammonia, and it turns

this with the named on the that this is what the researchers found, who are all pro vaccine by the way he said at this vaccine is killing more children and if there's a Dennis protest prior to the introduction of that, I seen it for thirty years. Nobody ever noticed that the vaccine was providing protection against those target illnesses, but it didn't ruin the children's immune systems and they could not defend themselves against random actions that were armed with the most children, but his net nearly impossible to prove their link. Is you have to prove the link you all? You can do it for any particular interest. You get as much as you can't prove link, but you can show statistically that there is that if you get that actually in your more likely, To die over the next six months than if you don't know, studies unfortunately, are not under any other facts of

medicine in order to get rid of me after you have to do a placebo control, try a prior to lights and sir Were you you look at health outcomes among a faggot among an exposed group brute that gets it and compare those two a similarly situated group. It gets a placebo. The only medical intervention that does not receive that does not look I'll ever control trials, bridle isis or vaccines out one of the seventy two vaccines that are now did it for our children have ever undergone a placebo control, trial prior licences. So I should say that there's a bunch on that point. I have heard from a bunch of folks the disease grew with you get polio. Leading player in the test. Testing is a really important point before licensure possible control, randomize trout,

Polio receive just that against the salient placebo control, so is, it seems clear to me that I'm confused way say did that that would they don't go through that process is not a lot a lot of them do here's. The thing is that I would say that for many years, because we couldn't find anywhere. and then at twenty sixteen in march, I met president trump ordered the doctor for archie to meet with me and our turf, algae and Francis Collins, and I said to them during at me and you have been saying that I'm not telling the truth. When I said not, one of these has undergone a prior pre lights answer specific control and the polio may have had one post nice to take most a map,

the poet you may have- I don't know, but I said the question was prior devices: thirty ever testes and three or four safety, and by the way the polio vaccine did undergo acetylene placebo trial prior licence or but not for safety. Only for efficacy. Oh I'm talking about safety trials now, and I thought she told me, that he was. He said if I can't find one now here: try. Your files is that I can't find now, all send. You want, I suggest for any vaccines, and we want any that seventy two bags it he never did. So we suit the h h out and after a year of stonewalling, us agents came back

and they gave us a letter saying we have no real, I think have dropped for any of the seventy two back. Is that the letter from HIV, as which, An old are isoude against them, because we foil lawsuit against them is posted. On c h is website. Anybody can look at it. So if safety, if h, H has had any study, I assume they would have given it to us and a lay can't find one while, museum, because a lot of the details matter here, pre licence sure what is possible controlled mean I do sir. This is this. Requires a rigorous analysis. At this point. It would be nice for me just to get a shot out to other people, much smarter than me that people should follow along with robert of candy junior use their mind, learn and think so one really awesome creator

recommended was doktor den wilson. He hosted the debunk, the funk podcast evinced the reckon yellow who hosts this week in biology brilliant, have had among on the podcast somebody been battling will is Paul off it. Interesting twitter, interesting books, people should have read then unleashed understand and read your books as well and Eric Topol has a good twittering, good books and even peter hotels, I'll ask you about him and people, because I pull off it- published a substitute recently debunking. I think my on

discussion with with Joe rogan and and and we have published a debunk of his debunking in us. Have you read his of you should read both and yes, you should read and I would love to debate any of these guys says Joe rogan proposed just such a debate, which is quite fascinating to see how much attention and how much funding in a garnered, ah the debate between you and Peter Hotez. Why do you think peter- rejected the offer, think it's I'd say I do not again, I'm not gonna look into his head, but what I will say is if you're scientists and you're making public recommendations based upon what use a is evidence based science. You ought to be defend that ought to be Defended in a public forum and you'll be ever defended against in all comers,

and you know so I got your cited science is based on, is rooted in logic and reasoned and if you can't use logic and reason defend your position and by the way. I know almost all the studies are being I've read books, not men. We ve made a big effort to assemble all the studies on both sides, and so I'm prepared to talk about the studies and I'm prepared to submit them in advance in our, for each of the points and by the way, I've done that with peter hotels, I've I've actually because I had. This is kind of an informal debate with several. years ago with them without a referee. At that time- and we were a debating not only by phone but by email and on.

the emails every point that he would make. I would cite science and he could never come back was eyes. You could never come back with publications. You would give up occasions that we had nothing to do with. For example, if I'm heiress or vaccines mercury bay vaccines. He sent me one time. Sixteen studies due to rebut something I'd setup thy marital, not one of those studies, they all about the m are vaccine which doesn't contains an heiress. Also. I wasn't like a real debate where you're in a year a year, using rees isolating points and having in a rational discourse. I dont think that I don't way mom for not debating? May because I don't think he as though the science are their aspects of all the work you ve done a vaccines, all the advocacy of done. They you found out you were not correct on you're wrong on it

you ve changed your mind on are there many times over I'm that I and I found that I've been misled eggs and weaker at those mistakes in I run a big organs and I do a lot of tweets, I'm very careful. For example, instagram. I was taken down from it for misinformed asian, but there was no misinformation on a instagram everything race and instagram, was either us or to a government database or to peer reviewed science, but for example, that defender, which was our our organizations news letter, we sunrise idyllic reports all the time. That's one of the things that the services provide a we watched the unit- mad and we wash the peer reviewed publications. We summarised someone they come out. We have made

mistakes when we make mistakes. We are rigorous of acknowledging at apologizing for and changing it s. What we do. I think we have one of the most robust act checking operations any and journalism today we actually do real science and in our there listen I've put up on my twitter account and I are theirs there are numerous times that I made mistakes on twitter and I apologize for it and people. Say to me now: oh that's why I've never seen. Anybody apologise on twitter, but I think it's really important at the only course. Human beings make mistakes. My book is in two hundred and thirty or forty. Fifty thousand there's, gonna, be a mistaken there, but you know what I said at the beginning of the book. If you see a mistake- and here please note, if I may- I give up way that people can out. If I may.

And if somebody points out mistake, I'm gonna change and I'm not gonna dig my feet. It and say you know: I'm not, can acknowledge this. So some of the things happen. talking about you, you ve, been an outspoken, contrary and and some very controversial topics this has garnered, some fame and recognition in part for being attacked and standing strong against those attacks. If I may say, for being a harder: do you worry about the this drug of martyrdom that might cloud your judgment? First of all, yeah. I don't consider myself a moderator and I have never considered myself a victim. I make choices about my life than eight in oh and I'm I'm content with his choices and peaceful with him, I'm not trying to be a martyr or a hero, or anything else. I'm doing what I think is right, because I want to be peaceful inside it myself, but I the one

Guard I have is it just is in fact based reality, if you show me a scientific study shows that I'm wrong. For example, if you come back and say, look Bobby here, a polio. Here's is safe I study on polio that was done, pre license or unused and a real saline solution. I'm going to put that on my twitter and I'm going to say I was wrong or is one out there, so you know that, but that's all I can do alright. I have to ask You are in great shape, can you are go through your died and exaggerating. I I do intermittent asked in Hawaii between I saw em I first meal around then I tried stop beating at six or seven, and then am I

I again hike everyday morning evening in the morning I got a meeting first thing in the morning dwells and eating. and I go hike heard and I ate up hill a mile and a half of them have done with my dogs. I do my meditations And then I go to the gym and I go to the gym for thirty five minutes. I dont I do it short and I've been exercising for fifty years and what I found is it sustainable in our fight to just a short periods, and I do for different retains the gym, and I never got relaxed when there- and I have a very intense exercise I lived in- I mean I I could tell you at my retainers, but I do. I do one day back just one day. legs, nedda miscellaneous and I do twelve. My first set of everything is: is I try to do

how to reach failure at twelve wraps and then my fourth set of everything is a strip said do I take a lot of vitamins ike? I can't even listening to us in because I couldn't remember, but I take a ton of lighter arguments and neutral. And I did I'm on any aging protocol from a doctor clothes I tell replacement and- I don't take any steroids, take any about. Rights or anything like that that only the archie, it gives, is aspire, identical to what my party produced. What are your thoughts on hormone therapy in general, I talk to a lot of doctors about that of because I'm interested

in. I've heard really good things about it, but I don't know I'm definitely not an expert on it. about god, you wrote, god talk to human beings to manufacturers. Wise people organise religion, the great books or religions through art, music and coach, but nowhere with such detailing grace enjoy. As through creation we destroy me. Sure would diminish our capacity to sense the divine, does your relationship, what is your understanding of god, who is god. Well, I mean god, is in comprehensible and I guess the emotional aspects would say worry. You know we're inside the mind of god, and so it would be impossible for us saunders and in a word actually, when you know what gods format

But I mean for me: I have a let's say this I had when I was I was raised in a very, very deeply religious setting. So we went to church in the summer oftentimes twice a day. the morning as and we went to with a definite when every sunday and we and I went we pray aid in the morning we prayed before and after every meal we prayed at night with a rosary, sometimes three rosaries night and my father read us the bible when it whenever he was out me read us in it, we'd all get a bad, neither is the bible stories

I and I went to catholic schools and went to judge which schools the ons and I went to a quaker school on point. When I I became a drug addict when I was fifteen years old about a year after my dad was addicted to drugs for years during that time when you're inadequately against conscience and when you look and I never in I was always trying to get off of drugs never able to when. I never felt good about what I was doing and. And when you're living against conscious you kind of push god to the poorer periphery of your life. Oh I'd call me he gets receives and get smaller. I'm and then when I, when I got so burn, I knew that I had a couple of experiences

one is that I am a friend of my brothers when my brothers, who died of this disease of addiction had a good friend who had used to take drugs with us. and he became a money, so he became a follower of reverend se n young man and he's at, at point- is compulsory and here the same comic compulsion than I am. And yet it was lately, remote from him And so an ear, the common hang out with us but he would not want to take drugs. Even if I was taken right in front of me he was immune to it. It become impervious that I am of an arm. When I was in when I first got sober. I was

I knew that I did not want to be the kind of person who was. You know, waking up every day and white knuckling sobriety and just you know, trying to resist resist through willpower by the way I had, iron willpower, as a kid I gave up candy for land was twelve and I didn't needed until I was in college. I gave up again deserves the next year for land, and I didn't know mother dessert. I was in college and I was trying to bulk up for rugby unfair sports. Oh I felt like I could do anything might well power. But somehow this particular thing in other addictions addiction was completely impervious I it was cunning, baffling baffling incomprehensible. I could not understand why just say no and then never do it again like I did with everything else, and so I was living

Against conscience- and I thought about this guy. and I do not reflecting my own prejudices at that time. In my life I was, I said to myself. I do want to be. I didn't want to be like drug out it was wanting a drug on time and just not being able to do it. I wanted to completely real I'm my my myself so that I was somebody who got up every day and just didn't want to take drugs, never thought of him. You know a kiss wife and children went to work and was never thought about drugs hold. And I knew that people throughout history. had done that in I read the lives this aims and is an augustine, had better, very, very dissolute, youth and and

I had this spiritual realignment transformation. I knew the same thing had happened to ST paul unit. Damascus hinting at habits in france and france is also at a at a dissolute and fun, loving youth and, had you know this, this deep spiritual I met, and I knew that that happen to people throughout history, and I thought that's what I needed in out something like that, I had the example this random mine and I used to think about it, and I would, thank goodness again reflects the bias in meanness and myself but I'd rather be dead than be money. I wish. I somehow could still that power than he got without becoming a religious nuisance, and at that time I picked up a book, by Karl young called synchronicity young. He was,

like others, is contemporary freud's. He was eddie, I'm right wing mentor an end freud wanted him to be a replacement for wade was never out of it. Yes, and young was a deeply spiritual man. He had these very intense and genuine spiritual experiences when he was a little boy from at least three years old that he remembered his biography is fascinating about it because he remembers them with such detail and and he ah he was, he had Britain, he was If he was interesting to me, because it was very faithful scientists- and I consider myself a science based purse from what I was little and yet he had this spiritual dimension to him, which infuse all of his thinking and really, I think, made him you know, is branded his form of of recovery or of of treatment, and he thought yet this experiment experience that he describes this book.

where he sitting up another. Even the biggest sanitariums in europe in zurich was sitting up on a third floor of this building and he's, talking to a patient. Who added, who is talking rubbing her dream to an end. The fulcrum of that, It was a scar, a bit on which was an act that is not is very, very and if at all in northern europe and its her, in figure in the eye in graphy of of Egypt and the hieroglyphics on the on the walls, the pyramids etc and an e. And

he while he was talking tory, hear this. Bang bang bang on the window behind him and he didn't want to turn around to take his attention offered. But, finally, as it is an exasperated he turns around, he throws up the window and a scarab beetle flies in atlanta, his head, and he shows it to the woman and is as sweet with linking up is just what you are dreaming about and he he was struck by that experience, inexperienced, which was similar to other experience. He had like that and that's what synchronous he means. It's a it's an an instant coincidence. it's like if, if you're, if you're talking with somebody about somebody that you haven't thought about in twenty years, and that person calls on the phone at synchronicity, oh and he believed it was a way the god intervened in our lives that broke all the all the rules of nature that he had set up the rules of physics, rules of mathematics.

To reach and insert tapirs on their older, say I'm here and and so he tried to reproduce that in a clinical setting an would put one guy in one room and another guy in another room and flip guards, and then guess what the other guy had flipped and he believed that if he could beat the laws of chance laws of mathematics that he would approve the existence of an unnatural, a supernatural on now is the first step to approving the existence of a god. He we succeeded in doing it, but he says, as in the book, even though I can't prove use empirical unscientific tools, the existence of a god. I can show, through anecdotal evidence, having seen thousands of patients come through this institution that people believe in god get better faster and that the recovery it's more enduring and people down and for me hearing that was more impact and if he had.

claim that he had proof of a guy, because I wouldn't believe that I was already at a mindset where I would have done anything. I could do improve my chance of never having to take drugs again by even wonder, and, and if believing in god was going to help me There's a got up. There are not believe Then one of at the power help me, I was gonna. Do that son and the question is: how do you start believing it something something that you can't see some our here, a touch, your taste or acquire with your senses. and young, provides the formula for that unease as he's as act as, if he fake a him again that's what I started to. I just started pretending. There was a guy at watching me all the time and kind of life was a series of tests, and each there was a bunch of moral decisions that I had to make every day and each one of these were all just a little.

things that I did, but each or now from a moral dimension like one eye in a window goes off. Do I lay in bed for an extra ten minutes with my indolent thoughts, or do I jump right out of bed? Do I do I make my bed most important decision of that Do I hang up the towels do what do I? Why, when I go into the plaza and pull out blue in a bunch. That's why you're hangers on the ground to shut the door and say I'm too much, I'm too, to do that. If somebody else job or not- and so I into I put the water in the ice tray before I put in the freezer. I put the shopping, cart back in the you know place, and then it's supposed to go in the parking lot of safeway and if I make a whole bunch of those choices right. I maintain myself in a posture of surrender which keeps me open,

the power of my power to my god and when do those things right when I you not so much about addiction, is abuse of power, abuse of, All of us have some power. Whether it's good looks whether its connection education are Emily or whatever and there's always attempted a temptation to use those to fill the self. and the challenge is: how do you use those always serve instead? God's will end the good of our community that to me, It's kind of struggle and when I do that. I feel I feel gods power coming through me and that I can do things are much more effective. It's the human being. At that gnawing in o anxiety that I live

for so many years, and I got that I go on an ad I can kind of like but on the oars and always this ellen- and you know- and the wind takes me- and I can. I can see the evidence of my life- and you know the big thanks to temptation for me- is that When all these good things are happening in my life, the cash and prizes start flowing in. How do I maintain at posh europe's render? How do I surrender that, when my inclination is to say to guide thanks god, I got it from here the color of the cliff again and I add a spiritual awakening and they might desire for drugs and alcohol was lifted, miraculously ended. Me. It was as much a miracle, as is, if I add, if I'd been able to work on order, because I had tried it

I think honestly sincerely on its for a decade detritus and I could not do it under my own power and then all the and I was lifted effortlessly and I'm no so eyes are that evidence. early evidence regarding my life of the power, and- and I see it now, you know every day of my life, so having that more damage and all of your actions is how you able to win that move battle against the absurd, exactly the place where the ball is all the same thing. It's a battle to just to do. The right thing now says if this was able to find some happiness yeah our bobby, thank you for the stroll, through some of the most in moments in in recent human history,

for running for president and thank you for talking today. Thank you lex, thanks for listening to this conversation with robert f Kennedy jr to support this podcast, please check out our sponsor. In the discussion and now let me leave you with some words from John F Kennedy: let us not seek the republican answer or the democratic answer, but the right answer, but does not seek to fix the blame for the past. Instead, let us accept our own responsibility for the future. Thank you for listening and hope to see you next time.