The following: is a conversation with Travis Stevens, two thousand sixteen olympic silver, medalists than judo and one of the greatest american geodata ever, but his stories and spy I ring not because of that olympic medal, but because of the decades of injury, hardship, incredible battles against the best in the world, wrapping up and close heartbreaking losses at the two thousand and eight and two thousand and twelve games, all of which eventually led to that very silver medal in two thousand and sixteen as we talk about in the podcast Travis is also someone who's, largely responsible for me getting into judo, for which I will forever be grateful. He also happens to be now my judo coach and mentor. I released a video of Travis and I doing

judo in a few days support this podcast. Please check out our sponsors in the description as a side note, let me say a few words that I've written down about the olympic games and the international olympics committee and visiting family as the t shirt, but I had to pull away to write in to say these words, because this very video was taken down by youtube. As per the request of the I o c e, no serious on a russian takes time away from family, we and drink I'm heartbroken does he continued incompetence, greed and corruption on the part of the irish sea in failing to do as the olympic charter states to quote ensure the fullest coverage in the widest possible audience in the world for the olympic games, and quote, I want to give you

two facts first, they do not make most of the videos of the games available for replay anywhere that is accessible, searchable, undiscoverable, whether funded by ads or brussels, options, for example, on youtube or their own service. It is not available anywhere. Second, in the most absurd violation of the olympic charter They ve uploaded all of the videos of the twenty twelve twenty. Sixteen and twenty twenty slashed twenty one olympics to youtube, and they said all of these videos to private. this results. In a situation like my for our conversation, you watch now with travel stevens being taken down due to us, including a few seconds of a small video overlay of travis epic match against only bishop and twenty twelve. This is done automatically. As per the request of the irish sea.

I have the video due to having screen accorded it from twenty twelve. Here you have Travis Stevens, an olympic silver medalist, someone who spent his entire life, overcoming injuries, losses, hardway cuts periods of Financial, psychological support, culminating in the biggest heartbreak of his career in this one match, and this matches available. Nowhere on online, not for free, not forward million dollars, our showing short clips of it results in the aisle seat, taken down, not demand, typing it taking down blocking it. The I see silence is this amazing story of stevens of heartbreak that eventually led to triumph, and there are thousands of stories like it stories that are supposed to inspire the world.

to me and to billions of others. The olympic games give a chance to celebrate and to be inspired by the greatest stories of human flourishing in the face ship an incredibly long odds or dominance in the pursuit of perfection at levels previously thought to be impossible. The olympic games and kids like me, the dream and to work hard to achieve in our own lives, the same moments of magic and greatness, smaller big, that the olympic games reveal I believe the members of the I'll see a good people, but people who forgot the dream, the fire there were sparked and burned in their hearts. When they first saw the olympics, us kids, they have allowed the gradual corruption of their own human spirit and thereby have robbed a world of this very fire.

the fire of the olympic torch, the fire that ought to burn in the eyes and hearts of kids watching the olympics today, daring to dream daring to be great, please please do better. The world needs you. The world needs the olympic games, as usual, I do a few minutes of as now no ads in the middle. I try to make this interesting Sahel fetal skip, but if you do please to check out the sponsor links in the description, it is in fact the best way to support the spot guest. I use their stuff I enjoy it. Maybe you will to the show is brought you by just works, which is in

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I guess and here's my conversation with Travis Stevens. Judo as a martial art. A sport, a set of techniques, ideas philosophies: can we start by are maybe you giving a big picture overview of what is judo, To somebody who is like outside on the whole spectrum of grappling sports, yeah, judo was a region, it in Japan that was used as a police tactic for self defense ends. You know subduing people the art of being able to

throw somebody to the ground and hold and control the situation. I am, I think, it's pretty much evolved since then, though, you know it's that you include like the sport aspect of it. It's its grown to be something more and we're dynamic, almonds qana gotten away from that to the basics? Is people were something called a key yup which I think nicely mimics like outdoor called I a jacket and they start on the feet. There is to get a grip each other and the scoring works by the more bad ass. The throw is more points you get and if by you, throw the person big and hard on their back you when the matches over and that's called any upon yet which is equivalent to a knock out. So I guess, there's no.

downs. Now Judah, we don't count those they gotta hit. They're back and they gotta hit, it would force as others, a huge incentive for the big throws and there's also the drama of somebody catching off guard or the surprise big, throw in its over yeah there's, there's two ways of losing really there's the I saw this coming right, you just you see it, but you can't stop it. And those ones tend to be the ones you can live with the ones that are like really hard too little. The one you never saw coming reich is that just shows that that person has really outclassed you right. So there's like a set of a small set of throws. Maybe you can go through them that are like you saw coming, we can do anything about it and then there's the set The throws that are more, like surprises, suffers, saw the counters or, if you think,

one thing go the other way than surprise and surprises. Like oh shit, you about the person because they think you got one way and they go the other way and, as is oh shit moment, all yeah. It's your baggage slammed on the ground, One of the what I mean you're good, have many thoughts, but one of them is a basic reviews. beauty of Judah as the foot sweep yeah there's something about of balance about the timing. They catch him right, all of a sudden, the guy. The same feeling when I went skydiving. Like all said, the ground is not under you anymore. Yeah knew just you go weightlessness for like a split. Second, you realize you ve lost like all control your limbs like It's like zero gravity. Right, like you just you can't turn. You can't rotate. You can't do much of anything and then, before you know it you've hit the floor. Yeah, it's a cool feeling when you get thrown and because you hope

do that this and other version is thy gear. You just hit the ground hard it because it's not even see coming was in a big. Throw that got loaded up is like also the surprise and then like this, like feeling your bag just slams and there's like the heirs of the air and at worst, is when you get hit twice with one: throw right because sometimes like the guy, wrong. You didn't expect you to leave either so you hit, and then that guy comes down like a second and a half later on in life from home, and then the wind is just gone from you. Those are the worst and then there's the disappointment like Then the the intellectual, the cognitive part comes only I go. Should I just lost yeah and you don't have like a connection to why right it's almost like you, ve like you, didn't literally get a concussion like you aunt you undressed,

and in remember everything, but you can't figure out how this just happened right. Those that those are the tough wants to deal with issues have you had like that warrior. Will you don't understand how it happened? You have to watch footage understand what happened even when you watch it you just like. I don't get it like I wasn't I in a position to stop this. It makes zero sense conceptually when you watch it. You're, like I understand how to play defence. I understand it looks like I'm in a defensive position, but at the end of the day I still got thrown in talking about what is it a two thousand and eight match? You have non traditional groupings thou, yet it accurately but and then you're going against another right handed player and then there's some kind of fake that he did and then huge. He caught you yep q. Can you describe the throw he caught when he caught me with a drops?

but he he can. I we were engaged. We were looking at each other and we were kind about like a stalemate right. He couldn't we advance, I couldn't really advance and he cottages let his gaze like wander off to the right like he was looking at something, and then I kind of like what were there and then I got it wrong in its life superstore. For people, don't know us say: oh syn oghee drop means when you dropped, you need is a synagogue. Is one of the fundamental throws a jew, rather just just a handful, but that actually ever work I was wondering about like boxing: or judo does the head movement of the person workers were still. I kind of dogs at heart if you look somewhere with a dog, the dogs gonna, look that direction as well actually work ever it does on a greater sense. What you try to do,

not necessarily get like a physical reaction of a look, but lol of security, where, like they ve almost like relaxed for that split second, because you lose lure them into like a sense of comfort and then that when you can strike you have this speaking to say now you have this gigantic standing synergy up. and do you have a specific grip? One of our challenges is there's a large number of people that listen to the audio version of this have to try to describe some of the stuff and I'll do my best to describe with words. But do you have you grip with your left hand on the lapel the jacket or like that area and this kind of a lean into the person and, I suppose,

Is there a feeling of a law there that you're trying to get to where you're just it feels like you're, both calmly dancing before you turn your hips and going for the throw I'm actually trying to create a a sense of weightlessness for my lead leg, which would be my right leg and a sense of resistance from my partner, so you aren't you both kind of leading an inch of each other and it creates like in a frame, but when the eight frame is held together at the top half would be my left hand in their right hand posted on each other's chest it means our legs are free to move and our hips are free to morph and they're, not gonna. Oh you're leg, move because other weightless S and is there feeling like for them? Is there feeling like nothing? I can happen here, we're all relax their ratings fine and

and they're standing off at a funny angle before they know it. I've spun in my back is on their chest and they can't go anywhere here or how did you first develop that throes of four people It's called upon sane argue, which means your right hand goes under their like armpit area and that that's like of vice that connects you. to them yeah, and then they get gone for the ride. Yet the interesting thing with the standing one is as opposed to drops in oghee version. The drops in argue kind of drop under them and because there's a vice there like pulled put under unlike over yeah, with the standing one. I suppose there's some similar physics, but you of loading and onto your hip, and so there the air, while you're standing still there's that there's there's a sense in which their iq lifting them, above, where they started,

yes, that's how you get the really big air. Yet, if obvious, if if everything is right. So how did you first develop that how'd? You first, I first learned learn and like the very basics of the throw your foot place, man all that kind of stuff, and then you know like anything, the basics or nice. Ah, but once you get good at the basics, it is very easy to stop, but it gives You you're good, like fundamental platform to learn off of end to expand off and then I expanded when I first started watching coca, the new wind rikers he's the one that first like introduced, that split hip style. Saint argue that I do once I learn that one I bill about eight different variations of sail off, that one start position that way I could, regardless of you.

Defense. I had an answer for a throw away that one, though, why can you or can you describe love to me trouser dunes, why the fall in love with that throw in particular it. It was really a sense of you know one of my shortcomings as a kid. Like I hate leg day in the gym, I hate it with a passion. I, if you asked me to do a squad, I'll get it done, but I will bitch Mon every step of the way I hate I remember one time I was at the gym with my trainer and he goes okay, we're going to do front squats, and I want you to put two twenty five on the bar and I was like. I can't do that and he was like. What do you mean? You can't do that niggle, I physically. I can't do that and he was like be serious, an area, so he he didn't believe me We put two twenty five on the bar and I bottomed out, and then he was O'Hare go down to one eighty five and I was like I can't do that. I just it's not happening, you probably couldn't strength wise. You just refuse. I just meant

We I cannot read my head around, like this ain't happening, my doing it so I it up your may. I principle I do. five pounds on the bar I got you would have front squat. No problem, though, evaluates glasser rough to seattle, logically yeah. I just when it comes to my legs like no part of lake blake, pressing single, like squad splits. Why any of that want? No part of it. So you think, like the more traditional variants of saint argued, require you to have that leg, strength that mass We watch japanese judo players like their size and their hips they're sick. They gotta power there. Do you almost like always dropping a little bit into squat position, if remind never no no, no, no, not you, sorry for that. The traditional ones yeah, and so the split hit the split hip actually allows me to keep my leg straight.

The farther I split my legs, the lower my center of gravity goes now. I don't need my legs. Were perfect love it. Let's do it with the that's the way: you're thinking, okay, yeah, but it serve dish thing about. It is because, as I mentioned to you of god, to judo after all, What do you need olympics and an watching cove as well? So we start imitating the people we foresee and then you take it's a judo, coaches and they're like no. No, no, that's the wrong way to do it and happens all the time. It drives me, nuts I may not, as in poland, one time teaching a camp and I had to coaches anti coaching, telling their kids not to do say. Oh the way, I do it because it never works. It's crazy. How do you the fortitude and the guts to just go

on with a throw this non traditional, the variant. That's not traditional! If you think about it, you know from a very basic like route of it. There is a philosophy in a mentality of judo of houses, I was work right. There's a mechanical structure there like this makes sense. If I follow that principle, I can do anything. I want nothing else matters as long as we follow those core principles early days, even even then you able to think on your own yeah. I was able to develop a pattern for my foot placement based on my opponents height because If the number one thing any judo coach will tell you is you need your center gravity blow years, while now I now, I know exactly where to put my feet, be does the shorter you are the bigger the split because a lower? I need to get the taller

you are the less of a split. I need. Is there something to say about fundamental Suppose of judo is their overall. a time not twice over twenty years You ve been doing judo than approaching thirty as it had been yeah. It's yeah. I guess it's gotta get hurt there's a way. This method is there some, like principles that have emerged. I guess sedgy at that you're centre of gravity below there yet is. There are other kind of both on the gripping side. The footwork side. Leverage eighty could speak too. There's some that have withstood like time and mike you have it'd, be able to get below their centre of gravity cause. You have to be able to rotate them around their centre ground. And then the other one is that was always

principle. When I was growing up, I didn't change until later on in my career was you have to be able to pull? You need to be able to party get them off balance, but when you think about it, statement as a whole. It ended with. They have to be off balance. I don't need the poor to get you off balance. I just need you off balance. And when you think about it, that way, it allows you to open up the doors to what do I need to do to get you off balance? I could push poor, I could flinch. I could fake and you could put yourself in your own off balance state right when you think about people who wrestle right I faked shoot it causes you two overlean forward, which means you're off balance. There's no poor, there's not push there. No none, thing. I just get a reaction that leaves the opportune in the door open for an attack and that our balance can be very subtle, could be very subtle and the better

you get in the more skilled you get the last subtle. It is. So we should also mention that there is something called forward throws where you throw the person. They know they're gonna fly facing forward in a fly forward and then a backward throw a fly back then there's ladder old. You know they actually goes sideways over like a cartwheel, almost okay, so the forward throws there is gone. We ve been talking about which you say now again as a bunch differ variance upon marauders, say, synergy, those drop in their standing versions of them and that all of this away to summarize it, but that's like as clean as a getting your and are gravity under theirs, as it gets the refugees gripping variations yeah. I guess it's all grip. variations in all of these threats, but

and then there is in terms of forward, throws there's the other big one in competition is each a which is, I don't know we can try to plain that one, but it ends up being, were wonder your state and just one of your feet and the other one. Up in the air and a few put nest in category her, I go. She like those kinds of trousers a kind of a little bit single footed, yanza, there's two footed techniques in their sitting afforded yeah: oh, go! She where it's like you do. being a mix between new which model and the synergy yeah, it's a hug, you, u hugger person, and then you turning heads around such that you're now hugging in the same direction when it comes to forward throw others, regardless of the name of the throw

the gripping variation that you're using the whole principles. How do I get this person to the way forward, role in mid air and land on their back, the more of a forward role. I can get the bigger the score. If I get like A quarter of a turn were like you and on your side. You don't go over your back to halfscore, but eight. All require me to get you to do that forward, rolling action. So just if we think of one person, if they do this nice, leap forward and they do a role and their back messy role, over the ground. You try and do the exact same thing with you connected to the well and if it's nice and it's smooth, it's probably not a foursquare. It needs to have like somewhat of a violent impact, right? So, if you think of a drop synergy, if I e, if I'm moving too slow, and you still roll over your shoulders and there's no direct impact? It's only a half score that they want the force the force, the violence, yes good,

ok, then in terms of backward throws the traditional ones there's stuff what you trip them from outside their body like a soda gary. It's a trip. Were you hook your leg onto their leg and he trip them, but your hook, it goes outside of their legs and then there's the trips from inside their body. One foot is: how could you guardian and the others? Oh she guy doesn't matter now things outside and inside and then there is like how do you know you from sideways except for weeks and then there's the foot sweeps where you can swim? one of their legs from out of them. both legs at the same time and like we're talking about this kind of is when timed perfectly is,

its effortless for everybody involved and the ending, like you said, is big, dramatic and violent. Yet Is there other kind of, though oh yeah there's a sacrifice? Techniques there's a bunch of them, and Ultimately, the variations have to do with the gripping, but your base Luckily, you, the attacker, fall on to your back sticking your leg somewhere on until to their body, which is like this for come over, which they fly and do that I'm gonna role the reaction. You basically sacrifice your back to the matter, nor to throw them into that, sir. Killer patterns. Are they had their back? Sometimes we use a foot. Sometimes we don't, and so we should probably say it's ok for you to go on to your back as is your clearly demonstrated control of the other person's body correct. You can't go to your back

in the same direction that your opponent is trying to put you to your back. You have to go the other or you have to initiate you going to your own back. Clearly and then and then there's the counters, which almost cannot have a whole group of there. And even though they have echoes of the same types of techniques, it seems like their their own whole thing you ever. They follow the same principles issues most counters like if you wanted to counter energy modified example you're trying to throw me in a somersault over my right shoulder. Therefore, I would count you by throwing you over your left, shoulder it goes in the opposite. well the direction, but in the same somersault idea, and they used to be. I already at this point forget the years, but it may be tweaked before the twenty twond,

olympics or they they banned. You used to be allowed to grab legs in the same way you do in wrestling, so you have basically all the techniques you would have been wrestling available to you if you would like yeah it's just that some of the techniques and rustling are not that effective, forgetting your opponent year to their back yet wrestlers wanna. Take the other person down in any way possible. Have control judah wants to take you down like we said The big fashionable your backs lambs on the ground, yet has to be to the back a lie. Wrestling take downs happened because they get behind them and then they they part out. so, but the judo banned all touching of the legs, just very dramatic change of the sport, but all of them are twenty twelve after it was after twenty one. Twenty twelve, so two thousand and eight I fought the games and everything was free and twenty twelve. We could only

I watched the legs as a defensive action or in response to an attack, so I could try to throw you with a normal, throw and then when you try to counter, I congratulate my there has to be a secondary technique and didn't night, then they disqualify first offense first offence was a direct disqualification which happened to them, and twelve games to fifty seven brazilian who won in sixteen she d cute. I think the quarter and it was like, I wouldn't say, was blatant as much as I dont think the act change, the outcome of the match had they not disqualified. Her food does not that dramatic and by the way you fifty seven that refers to wait, divisions enough in kilograms and killed is the measure of weight that the rest the world uses is not so

We should say the divisions folk for guys and others some needed at lower levels, sixty sixty sixty six, seventy three and eighty one. Ninety hundred and heavyweight, which has no ceiling, nausea it has worked on the motion yeah. It is about distinction. And you computer, mostly a career at eighty one kilograms. All of it all. You know his eyes were ever did seventy three, where you had to cut a free. One anyway Where do the end of my career overly grow into the derision. What, I'm trying to remember is that of bought a hundred eighty pounds hundred. Seventy eight point, six, I think, and yet, weighing with the key, the nothing

allowed to wear anything except for your underwear way inside confusing digits. That's right! That's right! That's right! This, which is very nice and okay. So we would just say we covered most of the throws are now. so that is the forward in the backward there's a sacrifice, those in the counters yet and the and then there's the leg grabs it was just save for the leg grabs that were effective. It's like the big pickups, where you just kind of pick them up and try to figure out once they're in the air. What the heck to do with their body to get them to to the ground. It is I kind of figured out as you go. I think the really nice one that was to me heartbreaking as a fantasy go is, oh, I guess was called a fireman's carry which is

you know it does lead to judo like beautiful throws and the fact that thou is gone. As is that one I missed a little bit, but then a bunch of people, I guess, came up with the variance we don't need to grab. The leg is definitely not as effective as being able to grab it, but I am also on the side of the fence having completed in all three. It was definitely better for sport to remove it as a whole, as probably good to cover some of the whole spectrum. was of Judah as others groundwork? So there's you draw the stuff on the feed or you try to. We have the giant throw. But then you know if the throat doesn't succeed, you go to the good found a standard ground for some amount of time like shorter its idea to move quickly yet to be attacking and what two other ways you can win is similar to people who do jets as you can submit them chokes outbreaks of that kind of stuff.

four locks and economics pin them no she's get around their legs, and this is very now. It's not aggressive Have they should get around their legs and pin them and we wouldn't just cost trauma all kinds of ways that doesn't involve their legs. Dna pinafore, like whatever twenty seconds twenty five. Second, yet twenty seconds now I think that distinction is their back, has to be facing the Matt. You have to be passed their legs and your chest has to be on the same. Plane is theirs, so does not tenacity. we'd be on top, but it has to be on the same plane. And all of this is, I think, different sports have different versions of this, but it's like an approximation of wood, dom looks like yeah, so pen and wrestling as dummy opponents, presumably if you're in a street, fight that position? ass. It then do a lot of damage. Obviously submission

is dominant cause, you're breaking their armour. Choking them too are unconscious and then obviously the throw which is not often talked about but like. If you tell what a street fight situation a throw is like the best way to Somebody like this could end anyone's life. Yes, it's terrifying. Actually, so gaze of these elements of dominance. So going back to set of principles your mentioning, getting your centre of mass under there's, which I think applies for type of arm like the forward say now get throws, is theirs is their other stuff. I'll see you mention off balance. Yet there's the off balance, one where you can either port

had not balance or you can give way to the force, which can also lead to an off balance. Ah, you can amplify somebody's force, so, for example, if you push me, do you expect a certain reaction that you're ready for? But if you push me- and I pull you now- you didn't expect that much force coming out of you, therefore you're off balance. The thing that distinctly recognisable about judo is like one done at the highest level, Like it's, it seems effortless when the big throw happens, yup like that's just it doesn't. There is no other sport like it in the in the combat sports, where it's like, when the timing is right, everything just is perfect. I think you can get them. I may, and boxing sometimes one

profit out, yeah perfect strike gently. I would take it, but it's not just like a hard hit. It sake. It's like the with conor, Gregor and aldo, for example, you just get it. You just rest rate in that he didn't look at you hit him that hard yeah, but he hit him just right there and the accused get the sees all the time in Judah as as fascinating and so beginning part of that is because there is a jacket, is also this whole Thing the your master of which is that which is gripping yeah, says there, we could say about. Are there some fundamental principles of gripping? They can speak to like what the hell is it being gripping is having the ability to hold your opponent, and such the way we you have the ability to be offensive and also the ability to be defensive at the same given time and

it's a distinction because I can hold you in such a way where I might be able to feel offensive. But if you can take up purely defensive grip and then I can't be offensive, we are no longer gripping. We are holding each other right right and sites. That would be Act of being able to grip is to be in a situation where you have me, and I have you and I can play both offense and defense at the same time where you can only play defense so on our talks about like digits that way, and not that but maybe you can see if there's a distinction see that you have a set of weapons. The other presented said weapons. You wanna sort of maximize easy. Your weapons and shut down the set of weapons They have easy, up in the same way and the feet. I do if we want to include body positioning with our gripping, ok

I can give you any grip you want, and you still can throw me because I can put myself in a position that fires, your ability to use those groups in a successful way. would you say the hips are critical to that? Or is it a good hips shoulders? Chin position had position, the angle of your foot, yeah, where you mean well, ok, And so and there's a bunch of places you can grip. Obviously, if people cannot think of a jacket like there's a bunch of places, you can grip that are interesting, so you can grip on the caller. You can go up on the sleaze in grip like the elbow. Joy up, and they could do those bad ass, like peace in europe, and the average in or out of so I got over the opposite sides of the heads the koreans rob on one side around the head with their hands. Together there there's some really nice about just those changes

but she Georgia's gives that hand yes over the person, just if you're not actually gripping a bell. anything you gripping just the entirety of like, as it's being all nice, so I'm gonna grab this part of the jagger. This part of the jacket you just like taken the whole fucking jacket it and just launching somebody for those people that can't picture judo. Think about it in like, if you understood like what a boxing match looks like, and you thought about that as like, traditional gripping when you throw like a rushing grip over the back? That's more like a hockey fight like I'm just grabbing you and we're just gonna we're gonna, be thrown punches, left and right when we have that grip. Somebody has to get thrown yeah, there's no there's no we don't walk around with this grip. It's his go time when somebody throws it to me as a as a fan instead of amateur practitioner, there's two styles of olympic level: judo one is where you're trying

to get thrown and the others were you're trying to throw more specifically when you try not to get thrown. There's like the strategy, the using grip. To nullify their office and all those causes stuff. You you being very clever, a strategic, all that you know maybe using conditioning and then there is people who just like step in the pocket and they don't almost don't care if they're getting drunk as they have the confidence that they're gonna throw first yet and those like there's a clear this, thanks from between the people do one or the other, and I think both can be done extremely successfully at the highest level. This, like obviously, you admire the people, is a step in the pocket in, and I think when you look at the people who do judo the best like we want to talk about like the top ten percent of the people who have completed the games, they do both and I do both really well, but they ve

favour one, because if you look at a player like the peculiarity of georgia, for example, theirs guy that stands in the pocket, but we in fine, numerous occasions where he's hustled some people for like a short period of time. To get out of scenarios to belong. the match to make. Somebody tired see, want both sides of the coin, but you better picked the one that eighty four of your strategy is gonna, be built around served for their magic question, but attacked dan gable, and he always looked to the russians as as the art and wrestling and he was wants to be an artist a, but I think he's known for being that sort of guts aggression, meadow toughness guy, but he always was drawn to the artist cheer rustling. It's hard to know when you just

watch, you cause you look like you're aggressive and you got the guts and the mental toughness, but there's also. is the mash if technique which you lean towards in terms of what accounts for your success and just the way you approach. Is it the the gods, the aggression, the metal, toughness or is it the mastery of technique, the artist tree I would be my my aggressiveness if I'm gonna pick those two areas. But I think there is a third area in there that I would put myself in where more of a strategist. I look at all of my opponents and All I ever see as their faults and the way I do judo is built around their faults, and it's just I put, myself in scenarios where I don't even know how I'm gonna win, but what I do

in those scenarios is I've made it very difficult for you to win, and then I figure out the rest. As I go like. How do you study on it are their bins? You can put the men like this are left in a right ear, yet that this kind of stuff bins, other endued, all you might that you put your opponent others, probably about twenty there's, like certain players who you who put in a category of like they're, only good for the first. You know two thirds of the match after them, They turn into a different player where there are either falling into a sense of panic or certainty and you can, if you were to take a video clip of what's hiv, billy right to get Georgian I beat in the olympic sammy

he somebody that would be you in the first three minutes and if you clipped out all of his matches- and you only watch the first three minutes of every how much you would see one style if you found all the matches where he got taken into the last minute and he and winning by a major score. You would see a completely different fighter. And so going into like my olympic semi, I put him into that category of like I want to get to this guy cause this guy's beetle. The trick is, How do you get there? How did he get there and by the way, we're talking about the two thousand and sixteen olympics where he won the silver medal, you're part of a three different olympics, but the Cardio aspect of it I view faced exists. often in your matches, we have to go deep and go like past yeah, but that's not from the judo cited

that's from like I did, a very bad job of making weight is always the way could yet always the wake up, and I think people really struggle with that they blame cardio and training and everything else, but we're really come down to it like we train for an hour and a half to ours twice a day? How are you tired after five minutes, ran right? It becomes into a mental. Trouble you're your stress, your lack of belief in yourself or in my case sometimes its poor nutrition. Top that one too many mcdonald's meals? Just it happens? I guess so So while we cutting I've I've seen wait cutting great some of the toughest fighters. Wrestlers grabbers ever like or an outbreak like where they it makes them want to quit the sport yep. And so this is what people don't often talk about, but mentally is one of the hardest.

Things especially doing a kind of rock because It becomes a mental war, so you competed legacy your whole career anyone kilograms walked around at eighty eight. Eighty, nine about fifteen pounds as twenty pounds over that give guarantees. And so what was your process like mentally and fast clearly for so. Maybe you can comment on when the winds are relative to the matches and they always process like leading like a week ahead a day ahead, our heads minutes ahead of the world the way in men every one varies tremendously, because we're not like most sports, because your dropped off in foreign countries

is that who knows what right some places have Sano some places: AP treadmills, I went to a place one time in china in the middle of winter, where the roads were frozen nice and we had to use our hotel rooms because it was you couldn't sweat outside, because it was too cold I and every one of my olympics. The weight cut, was different. Just given my mass, when I went it two thousand and eight, I was probably like eighty two eighty three kilos walking around so weight cutting, wasn't a thing, for me in london we actually weight in the morning of so way where I like six, a m and the olympic railways beneficial to me because tat she don't start until like ten or eleven, so you actually were able to reach. However, where on the circuit, you would weigh in at six a m and the competition started atm net cycle I was cutting weight at five, a m and most of it for people who

familiar, but maybe can also correct me is that your religious getting the water out of your system is, was worn out at last year that the like twenty four hours before, even like so like an hour before the bible like leading up to it, and Have you eaten the day before the iter minimize him out of food energy system. My way cutting process was a little bit different than the most people, because I like to eat and I'm not I'm not the type of person that believes your athletic careers determined by your nutrition. I don't. I don't believe that I think sports are built our way? But when it comes to combat sports slake, you know you our ability to knock somebody out has nothing to do with whether you had a cheeseburger salad, my salad, my ability to throw you is not determined by that. I may be able to perform better because I've eaten a certain way, but now,

enough to justify it? Entire diet, change your body is built in my body. Is to operate with certain things that I've had my system for years yeah, I think I'm with you, but I also believe that there's a my mental aspect, so fear surrounded by For that tell you die matters, then, if you're diet is off, you gonna believe you're going to be offered the people around you tell your dash be good, so yeah, I think it's like same may have had argued Matthew walker whose whose asleep scientists about sleep as like, if you believe sleepers, Central is essential. Get eight hours sleep every single night. Perfectly then you're going to be very stressed. We dont, get it and then I think you'll negatively affect the stressful negative effect. Your longevity in all kinds of aspects, your life, if you actually just learn to truly listen to your body, become a scientist fewer embody with sleep and food it might

I hope that it will be the eight hours a night or whatever, but it might be something else and her die ere. I remember when I was meeting with the: u s: senior attrition nutritionist after london, it was probably around twenty fourteen. I think, and when we had our team meeting at the beginning of the year- and I was talking to him- he was talking about the nutrition plans that he could put us on like come up I've done the! U s thing like I've done the coup truce, I've done a lemon in my water. I go for shit, the cargoes, the goose, oh boy, like irish. because there's like a cookie cutter plan right away- and I was like look here- I want you to do- I go gotta, listen to you, but you're gonna walk into the seven eleven across the street from the oasis. And if you can't buy it and that seven eleven is not on my plan where I go because I go to places where the only thing I can eat or sprinkles and a snickers bar.

I've done that, like I flown to azerbaijan state in a hotel, with a rash drawn is closed. Usa, it has paid for the mere plan and the only that's available is the thing across the street sea or eating pringles. Before voting against them. While cutting twenty mountain and his in a. I actually the visual of that. That's, unlike that, some rocky shit. Okay, I'll, build me a nutrition plank of work because I'm not paying my own way to travel with fourteen days of food. May I mean that's, that's one of the magic of your whole career and also judo. I mean I'm sorry to say. Of course, you want athletes to be super rich and super well fun. From an athlete perspective and sport to be popular and managed in an altar company way. But, as I say reality, as a fan is fund watch. Somebody like you who's successfully, driven have to suffer in all these interests. In practice

Is it in its only suffering. If you expect the other side, I don't expect it. I accept it for what it is which is why I write off nutrition for athletes cause, it can be, on without it. As long as you know to what you said before, like you do, believe you need it. Some people believe they need it the mind. Getting your mind right is the most important thing you are. I believe I need was there a snickers bar when I'm tired, I want a little bit of sugar, makes me feel better, we'll be there for you, As we know you do. Yes, I just love them. The visual of you eating his thing because that's for areas lame, but that became part of my nutrition plan when

The? U s. O c, I wrote my nutrition plan. I was eating a burrito ball with brown, rice, white meat, chicken, black beans, guacamole cheese to chocolate, chip cookies and a dyke. Oh, this is like Japan live. There were a local but same concept in gaza would too because tobacco chip cookies cause. I needed the sugar I was. I was is eighty eight kilos when I stepped on the scale at six point three percent body fat now make anyone fanatics what really and the u s. Souci was like hey, you know you, you can't fight anyone any more. You have to fight nineties and I go I'm already into the quad. I'm not changing. I go build me a plan where I can do this, and now we I have an acceptable way. Could I gauges? What do you want me to do? I'm not the idea I can

just change the fact that it takes two years to qualify. I know where I met. I know what I have to go through and I accept the consequences it is. What as we all I saw, was the process a mean it gives? Can you speak to us you? Will you wake up early in the morning the day of the winds a few hours before technically my way, cut, never started until I got off a plane and to a hotel and how many hours three days see it's a three day cut to three days mentally you're thinking of it. That way yet and then you're still eating, I eat every day and then like what you load up on water, maybe as you start than I did, that the water stocks obvious, it is what it is they use. The aim is a slow you not actually egg sweating all three days guy. But then it's like torture to sleep or the process

are you able to sleep sometimes at depends. see you're dehydrated further for the job hydrated with six seven percent body fat trying to lose time I've been developed away to drink water out of a bottle where I don't drink anything, but I feel, like I have ass swishing. It was the last I take a bottle of water and like if we were to like to draw a line on it. I would tippit now would like this. Are you and you would draw that line blake. I think now, water for twenty seconds or whatever it is But I feel I am I getting a bit less yeah brain told me: I got there no problem, it's amazing man you just your minds, a very powerful tool in the the problem a lot of people have. Is there

accept the reality of the situation they bitch about the reality of the situation. I just first of all, you could always quit right yup. So, like your nadex, their midst, we never know from you. Can you can perform poorly? You can't miss wait to miss way, thomas weight, because you you can always win regardless of how bad cut is you can never win if in this way, but your your brain is also really good. Maybe not a brain, but no, my brain, I think most people's brains are good at generating the more desperate things become the butter. It's it's a generating excuses, What will you do with your mind that

the result. A knee you never missing way. The plant so, like I said, like my weight cut, would never start until I got to the hotel, because I didn't check my weight the morning of I didn't check my weight when I got there I just while I'm travelling, I'm doing things at like a minimal level, but I'm never not giving myself something on creating. If I'm thirsty, I'm drinking a diet coke, if I'm hungry- I'm buying snickers war, I'm buying a sandwich. I am, I accept the consequences when I get there and then, when I get there, if I step on the scale- and it said Eighty eight kilos I instantaneously, know exactly what it's gonna take to be eighty one. Follow like a robot, follow very specific process and an army

there's a lot of seconds in three days seconds and minutes, and you just I just know exactly what it takes from my boy. I know exactly what a one hour, Jim workout wearing us a suit is gonna, take an exam clear. What I'm gonna lose on day, one an exact What I'm gonna lose on day three, because they're not the same, so I can instantly look at a hotel, decide Is there a bathroom sauna, Jem temperature, the jam access to the german when it is access to the judo mats. My training partners roads versus tree lights, the weather outside. I can take a look at that environment and say this is my weight. This is way ends an inch, continuously in my head, there's a plan, a plan to make weight of a sense of how much sweat adds up to ten pounds from a sweat plus time you're. Just when I make sure

My plan, all of my meals and how much water I need in between is allocated to still make weight because you have to eat or drink during that time. Are you incorporating like mental exhaustion into this that doesn't exist if he doesn't or doesn't? Do you like meditators What did the thoughts come busy three days? We're not talking about four hours of suffering. I'll tell you! This is a broken. Some of the toughest people in the world the hardest way. Could I ever had the hardest one, and I fought pan- am games in twenty fifteen in edmonton, Canada, on a wednesday, and I one so I I've made weight on tuesday

I fought on Wednesday. I had two way and five percent of my way class or eighty four kilos on Wednesday. I was eighty four kilos. I got on a plane on that Wednesday night and landed friday morning in sochi. Ok, I I've traveled. Now I got on the scale all my bags or lost everything. So somehow I flew from there. to hear no bags and I, through all of my stuff in my bag, I wore sandals one pair of pants and a t shirt on the planks I was like I'm just tired, I just fought like only want to carry it. I don't care. What are the odds I get there? My bags you're gone very low, very low sure enough. It's gone I get all the way to socio check into the hotel. There's one sana guess what you have to reserve it

and you're only allowed to reserve for an expert at time. Guess girl, small tangent. When he found out you bags were gone, this is a way out, often think about there's like people their helping you I like that this is a person airport who goes yet whoops just like that, and then the person at the hotel Oh who tells you that you have to reserve the sauna and looks at you like yours they don't care that you ve been suffering and are not even that there. They don't even understand why you need it yeah like why you know that all this by her god. Thank this little kid reserved five hours or something to block it offered, as they say, is their frustration, they get in there. Are you just accept reality? Don't don't can hinder. Unlike the things you can't change, because the second you get frustrated the second, you think you can change it, your heart upon it and that breaks most men that, like little thing in the back of their mind, think in all like what, if there's? No, what if I

It is only right here right now, the doesn't it doesnt work wish quickly come up with a solution to fix the problem, a way out another small tangent. All The greatest people of interact with the high This level think like that. They don't linger on the na. It's like the next thing. Yeah we'll see cause like if you want to do something great heart stuff is going to keep happening to you. If you gonna, let that affect you you're, not ever do, the great thank you as fascinating? Actually it that's the one skill you have to learn your mosses graded. costly deal with emergencies. Ok get this happened was the next that, except it's not that big of it. Every problem as a solution here, and if I can't solve it, it's not my problem, numidia exactly so so so, if it sandals and get this, I get to the hotel I check in. I don't even know about the sauna. Yet I go. I need to find a cold.

store I'm in the middle of russia. I open up Google maps, I might sport sports store. I find in adidas store in the middle of turkey. Russia rife. I spend like five hundred dollars, unlike average sweats, no plastics know nothin and no running shoes cause. I don't have any. Was the temperature It was kind of like spring is so it wasn't called, but it wasn't hot still need a lotta layers prefer early. You would need a lot of layers just to cut the amount of weight, I'm about to tell you I have to cut, because after I bought that stuff that next morning and mind you at a friday to friday morning, I go to the venue where we have the mat open to train and I step on the scale and then second bat, tar. Mongolia goes all pretty good you're. Almost there, and I go now. I stepped on the scale it almost ninety four kilos.

I looked at him and I was like a maybe one and he went good luck. Euro, both the yeah for them next away class above the that is on a saturday friday morning, Friday morning, though, the competition is one sunday, sunday away and sunday like slowly. I throw on all my layers and there is one other person with me. Their quota was my girlfriend the time now, my wife, we start doing judah come like this would be the easiest way to knock off like three or four kilos. Well, it's cool. old I have no key, and I'm working out with a female. He had get like overly physical, like really get my muscles going to really break that's what because she has to compete in a dare to do she's, not a trading partner.

you can't just use this person I stepped on the scale. I was ninety one kilos felling miles an hour dan polite work up jago, that's that's not gonna fly so sure enough the closer now ruined they didn't help. lose any actual weight, so I go back to the hotel. when I start reserving the sauna John hearted, to lose out much weight in sauna by yourself so hard on many levels, but one of them is dismantle, yeah you're sitting he'd he and you're not doing anything like if there had been a bit aig or like the sauna, was big enough to use a jump roper do some sort of activity, but just sit, and you still and you're there mentally at one point during the way cut actually had my mouth on the bottom part of the door. where there was a little gap,

and my legs up on the benches- include a holding the door so that it didn't open. So I couldn't open it so that I can lean against that thing and have fresh air cause. I was like I was struggling. Then we're talking about a me. How many hours is ours and then the thing is is because to reserve the sauna. I can't even take like a thirty minute break, because this is not gonna be mine and an hour which means you have to you. the sun and the heat for that allotted. I'm period and I hate saunas, that is always my last resort, I would use a bath What train I will run. I will jump rope. Sana is like all. Let me do that for ten minutes. After all of my gym, workouts just to keep the sweat going. While I stretch and cool down, that's never liked the hey. I'm gonna do five ten minute sessions, because I need to lose two kilos that is,

However, the plan, but I mean so done, plenteous on of away cuts to know I can't even imagine you went through the second slowdown as one it to achieve immortality is like the time slows down, stop and you, let the lonely thoughts. I can't do it. I just think you say you can't there's nothing worse than sitting in that kind of heed for ten fifteen minutes there. and you walk out and you're, not even sweating. Here there is nothing worse than that if you like- and maybe if you weigh yourself- which you should probably shouldn't, be doing because it'll break you yet you haven't lost anything yet, and I was weighing myself every time because I only get breaks when I was hitting weight. Allotments so of I could lose point three in ten minutes. I'd give myself a break that I had to hit certain numbers

Could I only have the sauna for a certain amount of time, and I remember one time I went downstairs to get my cue, the sauna and the japanese team and reserved it and took it from me. Because the guide and put my name on the list when I called down to get the sar, so I lost it. our session. That idea made up towards the latter part of the day. I still have no running shoes, And then sure enough, my bag show up thirty minutes afterwards. The rate That's I got the universe is gonna. Give me a little wink there. Yet. I think, like this, so few people do this way cut at this time. The level people don't often realise people get a sense of how hard is to run two miles and desert like the kazi. They got side here in texas I can run five miles. Oh it's hard, but like the wicket is really a a a. Can you see you just the like? How did you do it? Just fucking, not refusing

Do you have to make wait? You have to make way, I'm just ass. I astounded, when I hear like you see, platters like miss weight like when Jane Cox missed weight at the olympic trials. I was like at least his, is understandable because he missed the actual way ends. He didn't. He wasn't like not on way. But when you see fighters like miss, wait, I'm like how did that happen? You clearly like gave up a long time ago,. There were times when I was like. I can't do this. There been times ripen. agnes. In assign a suit wrestling with a trading partner. Was probably sixty kilos far earlier that dare to lose point three. The loose pointer egg Are you considering your mortality in this moment? Like? Aren't you think

Gonna die because, like is viewer dehydration, you could damage your body in about any of this, or is it just man? Ok, yes, but I am among the other level to where, like I've been in belgium right belgium, to be a bee level, tournament, an eternity used to go on and because I always on the heavier side like eighty once fight on the second day, which is a heavyweight day, waves were always outlay. Let's say two p m the day before that tournament well, there was a saga at the tournament I remember like being in the sauna and, like all, I'm aid point nine kilos landmark for three hours: fuck, I'm an avalanche.

cause. I I mentally understand that what I eat right now is going to fuel me for tomorrow, so I don't want to skip it. I have the time to put it into my system and still lose it. Sounds like a computer program you running through the process eye I get but like that, all realising your ability to be to get it back off. Yeah, I mean, but also just like, go through this process, which is painful. It's like those monks who meditate was sitting in a fire kind of thing or something like it. That Yes, it's a foolish things. There are other people that are critical to this earth, this all internal to you are their people. That, everybody has their own way of doing it. Some people don't cut that much. Some people can't wake up all right. They would rather have been like eighty three kilos fighting ninety. Then you know be eighty three years fighting anyone

so. Why did you never move up to ninety What's your sense, is it from your depot? day of your own judo in that, like the judah opponents who would face at ninety, and eighty one. Eighty one is probably the hardest: if not the second hardest vision in the history of Judah comparison. Seventy three and eight you know when I was a kid like- I always wanted to be like the middle way olympic champion. Like the eighty one kilo, the champion, when I was in high school, I mean The decision when I was trying to make way for seventy three hours like this, I was wait for seventy three, like I was cutting weight at the end of my career, I'm right and I was like I'm just going to bag it up, accept the fact that I may not make a junior world team. I may not make this team, but our growing division, so I'm a senior player like I'm ready to go, and I naturally be stronger, theirs

standing like a growth process. When you move up away class, most people can't just I'm a fight nineties and win, because I wanted eighty one the star EL judo, is dear friend how you move dear friend, how they do things is different. There's a guy learning curve that goes into it and because the way cut didn't really happen until I was getting ready for real. I wasn't about I have. My last olympic games, be at a different weight class that I may or may not be able to grow into. I mean this is an awesome story of view: kinda decided That this will be your life's work in terms of judo competitor is like the eighty Division I'm going to air if you saw that where we get on with three olympics and sake, this story of, I would say, tragedy in triumph of just one. wars and eighty one kilograms with with the usual catherine of characters of that

top five in the world kind thing so just became a scholar of that. Let your body go into it and then let you body, grow it and still suffer through it to keep it in the eighty one kilogram enough. Compare that, like at the highest levels at ninety, I entered one turn a minute. Ninety kilos and that was because before rio frowned won t from the end of twenty fourteen. All the way up, till Riyos. Every time I fought, I got every time. there is no time where I made way got injured because my body weight was so high. My body was so low that by the time the hydrogen enough to get down there and you take the physicality You don't throw that into the mix something broke every time. It was like nature of the beast. So the plan was before rio. We made an agreed

met with with usa judo that Travis you're gonna fight ninety kilos, but I can a in and ninety kilos like hey, there's, no, like you get to be ninety four kilos and cut the nineties. There's like her. You're gonna step on the scale at eighty four kilos. Like a bit of a wake up, but not for one just so that you feel like you get into like the tournament, because when I, around twenty twelve. When I was talking with the: u s, o c nutritionist, I actually my way down so much that I didn't really need to cut wait the promises I Cutting wait, I didn't feel like. I was competing, got it right there, you have to go through that mental process, And I never really we worked out. It was easier to just cut the weight and be ready to go, but when entered into the ninety he'll division. I was rushed to the hospital the night after because my body broke out in hives, like full body my dad, they said it was stress, induced.

first they saw nothing for the games. I was hospitalized in hungary and filled with steroids to get the hives to drop in every couple days My body when I got back home, I would end up in the hospital give my whole body. Would waikato. Yet I wonder if it's like deviating from the process, the so like perfectly crafted already, or it will stretch from my mind, thinking like even though it's not top of mind It's probably a portion of me that, like the olympics is coming around and it could be my last daylight, my body just reacted to something chemically, so I was breaking out in hives. I actually blot like a six hundred. U euro! hugo boss suit? Because when I was in the netherlands training at the time, I thought I had bedbugs cause. I was getting bit everywhere, then I thought there was something in the detergent at the local thing. So I threw away all my clothes like I was paying for showers, because I was trying to get the detergent off my body and buying new clothes,

Before trying to figure it out and try to figure it out, just go yeah accepting the situation. I mean that, but the level of stress is exceptionally high here. Can we talk about the other side? you're gonna love this year, you have a long history of persevering through injuries, through insane amounts of injuries my ability to tolerate painters problem was a most people, but see injuries aren't just pain ray it's. I got this also mental, like psychological like again, like the way cut, it can make a lot of people quit. you tell your history of injuries. What are the biggest injuries that his injuries in your career, starting from what you early teens my early teens ass. She got out of sport

from eleven to say, like fifteen years old, sixteen years old, because shot, a double eggs through my kneecap, and I push I tore the ligaments, my knee cartilage kissed, the whole nine yards had to learn how to walk again. I spent two years in a leg brace crutches in our hobbling around the schoolyard That was a challenge to come back from I've broke in most of my ribs I won nationals with nine broken ribs has actually getting nowhere in shots into my chest. To avoid feeling the pain then wrapping them to try to make sure I didn't pop along. I broke my collar bone. I have five hundred disk in my neck, a fractured my back twice I've, open. My tailbone, I took my aside joints.

torn my right hamstring twice. My left one once broken my ankles a few times I spent at once in a three sixty that had deaf surgery yours, toes elbows shoulders, it is as are. All of these are, first of all a year on year. Tough, it talk. Do then. so each of those have a story behind them. So if you talk about the collar bone or the ankles, Or or the back the neck is their interesting stories here that behind these injuries, hard training, hard competing, jujitsu judo, answer grounds Tough, like sparring in the dodo or like drilling, are all that kind of stuff. What, if you're interested. Break it down your understanding of this, the landscape of injuries. You went through

the I've never had one in shit, you ever I mean I mean like torn a finger nail or, like you know, gotten key burn, but I've never been like seriously injured. I know, in ponds straight anko locked me culpa, polio that hurt, but I wasn't Injured, like it felt sore but like if I had to like I could run? I cannot understand probably exactly what the injuries came from then you're very quickly excel digital. you have achieved another level and judo and That means the in. as city with which you approached Judah. To achieve that world class level, probably the source of the injuries yeah, because is the mentality of how I approach you'd oversees jujitsu? She did

to me is like a game that, like we would play, I give you wanted to like gravel basketball. Unlike go again a one on one that site jujitsu to me like I can't take, sport in its entirety seriously, because I feel like the community of jujitsu doesn't take it seriously. Just for people who don't know just set some context here: you're a black box and egypt, but more importantly, youth beaten, alot of war caused you to people, you ve done very well at the highest levels of competition I wouldn't necessarily say I've beaten them as much as I've trained with them and. They understand who However, it is that, through training with me that, like I'm, not just at judo guy Like I know how to do jujitsu ray and

If any one of them were to come to me and like say hey, you know, I want to feel what it feels like to do. Judo with me. They would quickly understand that, like the way I approach one is, very different in the way I approached the other, like we probably wouldn't be friends if they did judo with me verses if they did jujitsu with me, I'm curious asking for friend, because most because all the little judo with you today you clearly, because your great structure and teacher you have a mode where can demonstrate a technique. Do you know how to like spyware a guy like fifty percent, it's hard to put like a percentage to it, because I've, never and all of my jujitsu ever got a hundred per cent and judges. Like, I had a conversation with sallow one time where we are, talking about like jujitsu

in training- and I was like what got his arm. I would just break it and he was like, but what if he tapped, I go. That's not my responsibility. If he taps and the ref doesn't say anything you just rake it just keep it on it was, but the tat means sovereign- I said now. The raft tells me when it's over I go I never give you the opportunity to talk as if you have the opportunity to tap. That means you had the opportunity to think about how to get out make a decision that you can't then tat. I clearly operated too slowly. So there is a it's either, in writing during a clarity by a person go aghast and judah like these. On the ground is like everything you did at it's amazing, the amazing, as one major, really fun person to watch. Is you really want to war with these people? Yet

So you know what it's like to go: a hundred percent in Juba. I do cause. I know what it's like to train with somebody either mentality of I'm gonna. Do it. everything I want to do. You're gonna do nothing. You want to do and you're going to accept that. Do you ever a training judo? Where were you lead people get stuff a horse? All the time now or like always evenly sure of building up the four years building up to the olympics, like. Smaller guys that are throw you in a jam and that kind of stuff. I never said that that never came out of my mouth let people do stuff. I never said smaller people throw me are you you: let him get a grab, but then your position to suffer situated it's hopeless psych, what not than number one skill set that judo is Teach you is the ability to give people false hope.

Frank, I am really looking forward to the video and shoot issue like I can that you take a grip? I can let you think that there's opportunity what you don't understand is by the way Shit dangle other man, it's actually false hope, like as long as you don't know that it is then now I'm free to operate and do what I want the I competed in judo against black belts. I would go in and it looks like it should be, but the throng, and then you just had a wall and then also saw you destroy those black, both yes, there's levels to this yeah, it's the two cliche thing, others black and there's blackouts you unique in this. There may be a couple other. Ah joking, oh, but you really like unique. I then get to see people that really felt like more tax better than me.

It just feels like that. Sometimes I've learned it's madness and it so it'd be truly. More might only be just a little better, but I destroy them. Holy shit there's a thing in judo right where Imagine like you as like just an adult right arm and I hope people can lie conceptualize us when they hear but imagine like you're, full grown adult, even male female, doesn't better, but there's a little kid in front of you. I call him five or six years old and he's acting out like do you think you have the fish cool capability of with one hand grabbing that person or that kid and making sure that they freeze like they feel like they're, nervous and light. They can't do anything when you fight a good judo player when they grab you, that's what it feels like as an adult when even

felt that, from my certain players in japan like when they get a grip on like I have now lost the phone. In this one yeah, that's a really good way. To put it, I think I could potentially beat some of the people that have a win against, but certain groups they took it made me feel powerless yep as a I didn't know this was possible that kind of power was possible and you don't even know where it originates from her cause. You're like how does one person's hand do this, where I can't use my whole arm hair or, like? I can't pick up my right foot, because, holding onto my rights leaf this kind of basic animal, a success, kind of terrifying, It's me you don't want. A part of this is like ego but you realise that there is a food chain and you're not at the top of it. That part of the house learning process. I think of martial arts as ike.

I think everybody like a lot of people, think much higher in the food chain and there I really are, and then when you realise that sweater really healthy process for people they're, not even competing in the olympics to practise martial arts visualize. Ok, that, like put herself more accurately in the food chain is really good way to sort of places, often rest the world. humbles you to the reality, the harshness of the world, yet its kind. When people look at likes bible in the wilderness. It's like. Ah, it's not that hard now you'd probably die in a couple of days, same thing with like judo and martial arts like yeah. It's really not that hard, but you don't know what I do yet, and so, when you find out that first time that you don't know what to do, it's devastating to a lot of people, but those that like stick through it. Unlike start to learn, it's a very powerful like feeling that now, like you, can take care of

yourself, and I think I wanna talk to a few times before you talked about that. There's like love like the top three The top five in the world are no, we put them, but there there are another. like leveller, above all, not algeria and the fact that the earth, and is it so exciting to me, probably because just felt all the levels here and I I've seen you and others at that height, destroy those I've seen supernatural levels that this game. It's incredible, that you're didn't quit. Didn't doubt yourself and just persevered the three olympics to get to that highest, always fighting at that like very highest of levels, but just like you know, from the top ten to the top five like really breaking into that hm, I dunno. What would you say,

It took to get to that highest levels like if you, when you look back all the way cuts the just the insane amount of injuries believe not. I didn't really think I was there until twenty thirteen. I thought I was recognised as one of the best, because I was able to fight for our word, which was the professional bundesliga team for germany, which is one of the top clubs in all of europe when they asked me to, I felt like Europe had like accepted me. Like all I'm a top level general player, but I don't necessarily think that when I signed on to compete for them that the division where the world of judo saw me as a top level geo clare right, there's, there's a mental shift that happens? On that point,

for me my mental shift really came into play in december of twenty fifteen before rio. That was like when I lost in japan when I realize, like the world, respects my abilities and they compete against them, they dont compete against me as a person. They compete against the idea or the the persona that I've been able to establish over the years of competing in the division while you're, the they probably have a name for you you're the system of ideas and thought that they study, but there still being me as a conceptual whole- not me as the human is your style relatively unique and the aid one caravan division. It was

to unique for caleb I and jimmy up until twenty sixteen. Now, since twenty six tat. You can see a lot of what we used to do throughout most of europe, and even asia like you're, starting to see some of those techniques that you didn't see before starting to get implemented, because when I was when I was gone, up for twenty fifteen. I had such a slew of injuries that, a calendar year that I never should have made it to rio. I should have called it quits at the end of two thousand and fifteen, because I suffered that major concussion in February. I stepped on a mat in may for the first time. I lost five straight tournaments after national team went to Japan. Why, panam games got a bacterial infection world almost have my leg cut off tour. My ass, I join later on that year and then took fifth in japan,

and when you look at like the calendar year as a whole like the world, should have true It me like, I, was washed up like this guy has, been training hasn't been doing anything, but I took fist in japan. now, how does a guy that hasn't trained all year take fit that one of the hardest image in the world on two weeks of training, because they were Fighting the guy I used to be not the guy I was at the turn of it, which means they were complete being under the idea of like what is he really capable of not? What am I right at a table today. And I just gave you the confidence and that its hold me that lake well, if I can take fifth and it's bad at judo. Right now, wait until I'm healthy and I'm back in shape, then they're not gonna, know what hit him. One of the essential components of being a number one in the world are up in that place. Is that confidence, the self belief and

rest of the world believing it you can have all. Confidence in the world, but if the rest of the room doesnt by it, it's nothing as funny. It's like their certain people right would tie In my day, I all understand he could not train and there are still scared re. Like heated and half the work out that hard timor, has several europe a you know this way better, but from a spectator perspective like illicitly addis like that, is one of them and sake, keep he's. Trade over the year I was. I was scared that guy it's interesting. I people scare, you too, I'll just gave a certain level of respect to my skill set and whether I had a bad way cut, didn't, have a bad way cut or not trained for the last, image, which never happened? I'm just saying they were going to.

the persona and it's an important distinction you're looking at the top five, because everybody coming up their training against the persona. Not who you are than I did that at a younger age. That's why I would always go to people's home towns, because I I don't know I don't care about the persona we're not you do day in and day out, but I couldn't beat around Can I told any semi to russia? I need to tell you to understand I see it with my own eyes what they do. Outperforms, that I can believe that I can beat up casket there's a small tangent dagestan has produced some people wrestlers yeah. I don't know what the stuff, they were judo is where the source of a source of great in russia is for judah, but what he make of them. then why why? What is it in the culture of

Russia, broadly the produces greatness, specifically in the combat sports. I don't know yet specific best boys? Sorry, but I dunno to draw a distinction between resting in june, I'm almost curious? Do you understand the differences there in the culture? still a combat sport to them their stolen. Same like realm of their taking young kids and there that's what they do so could be speaks very highly of judah, yet It's funny could be vladimir Putin, people dont, get it by You don't like one of the premier sports in the world, I don't understand it is not just popularity, so definite popularity, but also like this respect and there's a certain thing. which is why I really value judo internationally. You don't get this nina s face, but internationally theirs.

Standing like later in life, when you're a scientist meeting a business man when you both of done judo there's this like nod of research at the eye. So interesting is very few sport like that, you know basketball does not. I I don't know almost any sport like that is fascinating wrestling has that in the? U s is the EU s only the rest of the world doesn't do that. there's a few like you could see that, like iran or something like that, I was, though, respect rustling in that gun away It, sir, but judo on me A global scale is probably that only one dude, it's like physicality in the hardships that you have to go through to reach that Eleven, so why do you think dagestan? Why do you think could be as as good as he is? Is there is as just the raw genetics of the human or is there something about the system? The system? It's all has

but the system, so they are, they grow up around fighting in all forms of their also submit their technique is exceptionally good because it they grow up in it. They grow up on. They don't understand anything else so you don't have to someone like you would the way cutting is not like a big dramatic thing for them to fight. It's like this is just part of life, yes and When you were, I don't wanna say bread into it, but we ve done it fer. You know I want to say, like Ninety per cent of your life by the time like could be probably as right from the time he could crawl he's, probably leaving grappling. some fashion thereof right. You know you as grappling like you can look at a ressler

and having never seen this person before and go, you asked. Why is that is because he's probably wrestled since he was like six, so way. He carries himself the way his body is built. The way he grew into it framed around wrestling rights of the people. that culture are framed around fighting and gradually your eyes like foresaw philosophically psychologically Also just like the way you move, your body asset means ache when you're young people admire move their body, assessor unaware and then genetically it it just as they keep doing that. They're just going to get better and better every generation yeah it's just going to keep improving because they just keep building into that system of turning them out and part of it. There's a culture. Stuff, where the Aeneas such an interesting approach to russia,

when a trousered, Agatha endless talk to them there happen to be would speak. Russian is khazars less value for this kind of materialistic success that think sometimes can get in the way of our greatness like it. It makes. Coaches difficult it makes like following orders as an athlete more difficult struggle with. New usa Judah yeah want more money? Then more money, if not applied correctly, can corrupt the system. Somehow can split people up it just the same thing with their purse, age around certain metals over others, because athlete start she seen fame instead of development. Now that's a mean that set your brother's a famous for this like ignoring ignoring face. ignoring all of this. They focus on the art itself, not even knots, not even the metals exactly you're saying just the purity of

when you're in it yeah and let everybody else figure out, they're, stupid metals and money and all that cause it comes. It comes very exact as a result at exactly like. It's not that you don't appreciate, but you know that it comes if you focus on the art a distinction, you're talking about your athletic career or really any endeavour right. The problem with goal setting is nobody teaches the athletes or the people? the transition from the goal to reality. Right. So When you look at my career as a whole life, when I was getting ready for two thousand eight, I actually forgot to train for it. I was so happy at such a young age that I became an olympian that that, in and of itself was a goal that I thought had to be admired had to be celebrate did that you, the games, are right around the corner that I didn't really come down If that high,

you you're the local up the love of winning the trials yeah. That was so big thing. It's a huge thing, but then you just focusing and accomplishment The correct way right when I, when I went into london, I actually went into london gone with our approval the best in the world. Could I believe, on the best in the world, and I believe it from light the boy item of my soul, that I'm willingness and then europe What I'm trying to tell the universe like I'm accomplishing this thing, because it's a goal but when I went into real, I just accepted the fact that I was winning is our goal like, this is happening. You visualize it, but I felt it you felt it right like this, is no longer a goal anymore. I anticipate this is happening. I I see this coming down the path, because I mean anticipating that

games is happening and I'm gonna win. It's not a goal in anticipation and there's a distinct distinction there between the two. Ok, so for people who are just watching videos of this, this being overlay. of young Travis. This is you still had to make any one is the start of cut here. No, this one was relatively easy. This is gone all the way back to two thousand eight. So this is the summer before the games is probably happened in june. That say, so this is the olympic trial, so in the united states, you have to be somewhere to like wrestling. You have to win the trials to qualify for that particular division to represent the united states so this, as you said june before August olympics. Yet so here s one, this mask is

was the there's another one, but you get do a pen, you just jason, there's groundwork and the other one. But in this one fight, not teammate fighting timor. My former team, all their language will double leg. I forgot about that and, as we are to see, see you so there, the choices opponent and his trousers setting up here that say, naughty posting is Left arm in getting down as a big, that's a big throw it have too many of the big throws are now on video because, like you, oh often on video, you gonna get the best. People in the world is tough to get think that much air and allow at times the the ones that we do see in the part that a lot of people down experience is a lot of those times right through people with that throw it was in training camps. Subatomic

to the competition with these guys. They were playing a hundred per cent d, and never let me do that yeah. They do this here, You kind of pulling him down now he's on trying to get him to come up to come off, but are you going down to get to fake em? I'm not doing anything with my left hand, here. The upon us somewhat doing right now is. His head is like in my chest, on pressing him to get his head to lift with my chest so I'm pressing his hand down. So I can use my chest to like pinch, my scabs and raw. His head up said he wants to pick it up, and and then he doesn't know what's coming here, he may not. he knew he was a former t mate. He knew exactly what I was trying to do and was a really big step with your advice, foot. It covers

about four feet: cease distance and you left catch up and night perfect position, gotta ask it up a little bit. Keep calling keep girl end right there that this is like it important distinction between mine and everybody. Says, is because I split his hip I actually, once I am able to split, no longer need his centre. Very below mine right when you say split, you mean you put your foot in between my. Do that split, that for foot yes and then, when I get my feet back together, Does it matter that I'm under his centre gravity and not now, that's why chested right around his like sternum height. For me, it so that their

How does he get? Duff of you would just listening to this strauss steps as late as big huge step gets like my hip, is molly ride around his nipple. Could he sees brought back so much yeah? This right so like see, you're hot the physics of this work, your violating the principle of your centre ass being under oh, I guess somehow it is an open He has nowhere to go. He screwed. Yes, that's the kicker The way mine mine works is in order for him to play an effective defence, he needs to have his feet firmly landed on the ground with friction, otherwise he can't press intimate to stop it. So when I get him to sprawl back when I split his legs, he effectively loses that contact with the floor. Even those feeder on the floor there now a position where he can drive from them. Therefore, when I flip he flips so there's a citizen

natural, like flailing here, so he's not falling forward. you're following forward yeah just attached to is like you can keep up there in it like legs, the beaches flailing get. What am I want my golden rules when I'm training and I get really tired one of the light montrose, I would always tell myself. Is I'm gonna put my back on your chest and then I'm gonna put my back on the floor, yeah cause then you'll be underneath me as good principle, the very simple and it, regardless of like all the chaos and how quickly things are happening. It's something I can just dumb everything down to and focus on, guileless other gripping situation for work. All of that get my back to your chest and then put my back on the floor. So the step of getting your back to their chests like four for people who sort of more, for example, for people like me who, just like amateur judo people.

There's all kinds of ways to prevent this turn from happening. The being and just everything how difficult as it at the highest level to get it this position I you make it look effortless often like to get to a position where you're from facing them to your back to them, Is that like strategies that timing is the timing stymie? It's like anything like if I wanted to punch you and a face like how hard it to really do that. If you know you can just play defence and market, the trick is to get them to play defence to something that never happened. Then you go through like another way and then you just go through what would technically be your first plan if you planned on them playing defense, so I the stage from the very beginning for this to work so that,

this year on year, celebrating here as a huge sort of wants, a big accomplishments, big relief to qualify for the olympics and then you go into the olympics, and this is where I first saw judo and I the thought of them is the same as you don't you gesture, and I was really impressed by your performance in the olympics the footage nowhere to be found these days. But at that time I think you could still go watch it live on NBC olympics or somewhere like that and the watching. Several your matches of them was the match against only bishop, the german and I being it be nice, if you can talk to that match because remember it. I remember, is being frustrated. Yet by him not letting you play judah yeah. So obviously you face them

jen four years later and there's a lot of frustration, there's rough but our man, being extra frustrated in two thousand. Eight. Was that mass, like that he might have been number one in the world at the time are up there. He was up there for sure, especially going into two thousand eight It is really high up their yandah. He will win gold tat olympics. Yes, because he silvered in london. It was the same olympic final, both in two thousand eight and london. There ok see your facing him. There or were you intimidated? What was the strategy? Can you talk to that match because it kind of sets? The stage age for the rematch in two thousand twelve year, he was some that I had trained with in the past. And for some reason when it comes to him- and I went we train together it's more of a physical

altercation than that a judo training session. You know like it's just like the cultures of had to break us up a few times, It's you guys get almost like angry to a little bit. It always goes no farther than it should fur. we're friends like we sail auto each other, but for some reason we together there's something about him and me they're, just Oil, water- I don't know what it is, it couldn't be all of the groups. Because it's a great gripping strategists yeah does he frustrate you'll some kinds of groups and then you get pissed off and he frustrate him and then is it a staff and then before you not somebody's kicks. Somebody here punch somebody in the mouth her done. Something else. the one of the only evidence as we have online fighting him. Is you your foot in his growing area is the only thing from that olympics, frontier thousand age from two thousand and ten to everybody's question. Yes, it was deliberate. Now you can see this

but the other remember there being a lot of frustration as you go iraqis, going for loudest stuff like sacrificed, those maybe in our goal for the highest scoring in ponds but you're just trying to shake things up: farmer correctly yeah, because when he I was so young, then that- and he was young his prime really at that time, when he was, must have been twenty four twenty five, twenty six, world medalist european champion at the time and when he would grab me, I would I had that sense of feeling stock Like I was strong enough, if I used all my strength, did not do any thing, but then you can't be offensive when you're, using all your strength, to hold on situation, Sally really aggravated, because I couldn't I couldn't Jim, read any offence with every time. I thought, like I and advantage in the gripping scenario, he would take some obscure gripped somewhere. That was like will now I've gotta go addressed,

this thing, give up what I gained and I have to go back and it will our to think about watching the match. Now it probably look like a lot of flailing because we're just trying to generate a to not get a penalty, but also not enough to where he could counter it. did you think you were, you could beat done like when you walk into the much until I gripped him for the first time like I had trained with him before he fell stronger and more in shape that I've ever felt him that day, but at that olympics, which legs a whole. Another question, but yeah, I remember I remember when I when he grabbed me for that first time I went this is different,

and I there was a sense of panic at the time cause. I was like holy crap. Where did this come from? This is not the guy that I've trained with that. I expected because it was a definite like less will change, unlike his ability, strength, speed and stamina. Like looking back at that, can you explain that just you being more or less confident, because as the olympics, it was What is there some kind of routine? He followed it like really level up in intensity. For this particular event, I've been told that he only gets too like his prime, for, like really big of that, yeah, like he, doesn't train like year round like, I would train, but when it comes to light the games, he doesn't do social media, he doesn't work. He lives breeze, eats his training for the games, which could you not institute that level? What about you

as there are like Dan gable famously said, like the one lawsy had in college, whose delano media and stuff, but back, then there is no social media. I did. I was a huge mistake for him Do you do social media do do like at that at this point or that time like aol, I dunno was too thin. I didn't even have a facebook page or my space. Nothing at this point I got my first face. Page from the? U s so see in twenty two off when I wanted media thing, the lady was like you have to when I go on. My like people, I will deal with the people What am I supposed to do? You know that social part of the social media? Not ok, and I had to bring this ok and then you went on to face java camille, you lost, I'm ashby. He went on to win bronze, that's all astonished anyone, but we can skip ahead. Just remember, being, will impress both by your groundwork thousand match. I should have one tat. I should have one that I was.

If you don't know judo, you would visually watch that I I'm winning, but he was technically winning on the scoreboard. So it is what it is, but the point that he got that but a fight, his win. Yes, it was a point back in those days. Can't say anything but, like my shoulder net the ground solitary I don't give a lot of the stories of your olympic career is like for my fan perspective. It seems like you should have one are you very low? Cost could have one yes and theirs lot of frustration, you, your game, being like shut down in certain ways and but like the thing That immediately grab me in two thousand eight was how much some about the way you approached outta here. Aren't you to win a young that I was when I was at this at this time of my career, I was out to like.

When, like there was no like grab you throw you and if not you're gonna go through a battle. you're gonna make sure you earned it. It so happened the u competing in two thousand and eight I was. I became a fan of yours at that moment and since then I kind of new budget. Oh my university had a euro club and economy. Budgets who from maximum mush lights and obviously I wrestled me years before, and I love rustling but Something about you competing then made me out, there's not allow it sadly that changes russia, my life, because it it forced me say you know what I'm going to start judo and jujitsu, and first of all, for that, I'm really grateful, but it is fascinating to think that his kid is two years old, I'm sure I'm not the only one, the Yuvan ploys like youth, the direction of my life and there could be.

huge number of others like that? I mean that's. The power of use individual at on the olympic stage. Everything about the pressure that did you did, you think, is a twenty year old, there's a bunch of bull like I know, I'm not the only one who change. I just happened to have like a microphone recently. You know what I mean like is that it's fascinating to think about right, like you. Perhaps you didn't think about this is just as decided just a judo match. but you like you- influence hundreds of thousands of people that millions vanishing it's it's not something that really. Hit me until. twenty twelve when I lost, because that's when, like I would say like the world, felt bad for me at that point and that's when you knew that like people were watching

People were inspired by the loss because of how much went into that match because you know that ninety nine percent of us who watched it thought I one except for the one percent of the people were considered judges at tat day and the event so but I mean that's the winner lose that that was, it really is buying math and that's when it was that when it gains that like because I don't I watch, something in really get inspired by the person and the act, it's like it. It's an accumulated thing, but for a lot of people, like when they watch how much goes into it and then, when I broke down on the match, like human suffering, that happens when you lose a match like that, and then you know really coming back in winning in rio. There's a trend of people who were inspired

that new about london and then what I found out, I want in real that's when, like people like Droves felt like they could overcome their own personal obstacles to still achieve something because witness somebody who's fallen and gotten backup yeah but it's not something that you think about like on the day when you look back and you go all cause and effect. I wonder if you can comment on that I'm trying to realise and live up to the fact that these young people will come up to me. as soon realise, like certain war they say will have a long, lasting impact on them. You could you say it is like the uneven. Doesn't this area the when some of, That might come back thirty years later and away?

What I said was the reason they quit a thing and started the new thing that led them to become their true selves like to find success. All that kind of stuff like on the flip side, though some people based on the actions that we do today, even with this cast, will alter the course of their lives. Forever I had a guy one time was it after london and it must have enough in london. He actually found me on instagram wrote me what seem to be like dissertation on instagram about how much she I dish, respected him. Fourteen years earlier, because I didn't step on a podium to take a picture after winning a tournament where he bronzed adam again to myself like at the time like having dinner with my fans,

they because I believe the next morning was more important to me as a person. Not thinking about who you potentially will become in the actions of whatever you do today, if you do become current quote famous or somebody in a spotlight that that could come back to buy you. To me at about you that this that's promote evading like not to be. A lesser version or myself ever yet just on top your game, whatever their game is burnt out again, when you interact with people and when you're just in europe life, I'm trying Make sure that exactly same person privately as I am publicly and like You sure I'm on point, I see like just hanging out rogan a lot. I see how his foresaw the exact same person as second. He he like walks around

and there's like a huge number fans and use. Take pictures and like a very cool, is very cognizant of Certain words he says, specially young people like they're, going to take that and that's going to be a memory for them for a couple of years, yet I might be influential for the rest of their life. So I dunno that's a cool responsibility, the fuck it up eight, but but m I bring all that. Did you say thank you. so, even if you like or fresher the you didn't like a metal, at least at least the enforced one, silly russian kid to get into the martial arts and what? apples. When you get into martial arts, it alters the direction you will idea mine from far for the better okay. So let's go to london, two thousand and twelve

if the olympics are one of the most dramatic judo battles of all time, rematch yup, as he reached the semifinals once again to face the german ali bischof, he went through step through their match a little bit. Founded by all means dive only ever watched the entire thing one time just because I can so for context for the listener. Travis, first of all, you don't like losing, I think, that's fair to say you know the the hard part with this matches, because I went into this olympics thinking. Oh my fuckin, when the olympics, I'm the best in the world, I never in my right, mind, thought.

when a metal like that. Never that never crossed my mind. So it's like. I would have rather him just fuckin beat me because then I lost so here. The referees is, as many people thought robbed you the victory, but it was also really close battle again with cis. Many of the elements of frustration as two thousand and eight in terms of strategically grouping wise. It was just the fascinating battle. They went to overtime gazed at the context. So what? What did the bracket look like? Who were the players here Who did you beat leading up to this match myself? walk onto the mat. What happened the day before other hours before as you standing there, but it how bad it ceases. People are standing by this. Yes, that fucking guy then put this this bracket

I was really interesting if you look at like the back story of eighty one kilos like leading up to the olympic tribe, because at this point in time at all, I was inside the top ten at all times. You know a seven five, for you know sixes I fell out of their sometimes do the injuries, but I always climb back in. There was another guy azerbaijan that was the olympics. unit, seventy three kilos in two thousand and eight and the tired division got rocked by match one, because his first match was with an twond values. Fortier of canada and everybody who saw the draw come out was like the azerbaijanis gonna win. It he's the formula to champion

he's pretty much want to most of the major events, including at ninety kilos cause he just had small Judah ends, no match one roles around two rosa around aunt wanted the shoe and he's looking around and he's like. The azerbaijan is not here, but where is he know Joe? He runs into the venue a match before. Throws his ye on and runs on the olympic platform lose. the canadian and like a three minute, goldens court battle. We do that, you think warmed up didn't he ran. He literally ran into the venue through his guiana and ran out. Did no judah

and there you see an twine losing in quarters. So how good was at one at this point in time. This is, I believe, his first international meddle with the olympic games, so I don't think he'd ever meddled in paris. He went into this bracket on ranked beating the ranked guy first round because he ran off, he missed the boss. I dont know if he was off his cycle and pay and on losing cause. He didn't want to test positive. I don't know, there's a lot of like questionable Things out there that could have potentially caused him to. You know wrought onto the olympic platform for a match one, but you know it catapulted aunt one until I could believe that, like I beat seated guy, I'm I'm ready, and that was like a turning point.

The canadians career just as a whole right? That's that everybody has a defining moment. Mine was when I beat dish off I'd dusseldorf at the grand prix for germany after two thousand eight right at beat the on picture. appian in on his home soil to go when the entire tournament. So we all have liked those moments. It's just when it happens at the games. It throws the bracket like into a tailspin, because, typically, you know like who's going to beat who, where it's going to happen, and when you look at my quarter, final against the brazilian, but most people don't know is I was I was so thankful. I had that match most people would never in a million years be like. I want a fight the world number one at the olympic games. That's what I want to do Gonna be the eighth see fighting the world number one cause, I'm gonna win. I was pissed off at him. I was so angry cause

We were at, Pan am, I think, the year before, and there was a. In turn, when I wanted to fight him, I had lost the quarters to cuban, I think and like the first group, a change he threw me or the drop sail out of nowhere. I was passed. wanted my hands on the brazilian in the t match well brazilian teams warming up, so I walk up to him, no joke. I walked up to him and I go you're fighting and he goes not today and I went. Are you fucking kidding me I warmed up. I take the view that only fuckin guy want to fight and you're a fucking sidney standard to guide them book. I was sorry great? Carry that anger cause, never fought him. Until this day I was fucking pissed. I was ready to beat him. That's right. I m I forgot he was the one by one How do I I remember like being

excited that match. How did you beat him? I threw them with two hands on the same side collar like drop sale. I cross gripped. I yanked him behind me and I thrown upon was ari and then and ended. Thirty seconds later, I was pomp I was not late. I think it. Ok, if I'm remembering correctly thought. Okay, this guy she win gold. That's good! That's good made for me! is a spectator remembering now the next match. Much more like painful and then the fans of judo that really followed the sport. The stats when you look at the games in my draws, I the worst possible draws you ever could have imagined Both london and real, I thought the world number one to get to the fund. or into the Sammy's or pass the subtleties and everybody I fought in the draw.

Their beat me the last time we fought, or I had never thought before always held a loss going on to the matter at the olympic games. How do you feel about thereby were like what or your feelings above facing the brazilian first? I was so excited this war that was matched three. in london. I fought the slovenian guy first round, who beat me ah ready, beat me at the world's might have in the world's and then just delete. I fought in the second round who threw me fur was: are ye in Japan and then leon HU. I dont think I ever fought. Who is what number one that avoided fighting me at the theater, but everything olympics you fought, You really stepped out the only turn that I've ever platform. Mentally and physically and use the whole thing we never trained through this term. It like we did for the others or I would go into it injured.

I will list talk about you're standing there. Next to that to the german he looks though, is smaller than you, but you said like strong yeah, so What are you feeling now jimmy pager behind you? How far you re take his head off? Did you have an idea of what you gonna do? Did you try to do your thinking of winning by upon? Will you think you're like gulf, a big throws, take or take him in deep water burma with everything, and we were about that the battle, and I wasn't going to throw him until he broke mentally okay. That was, there was no like all this is going to be a clean, throw that was never. That was never the thought process so

So here you know, there's going to be a lot of gripping, so we were seeing a shit on a gripping and right here he throws it bank closest it You got a lot of adrenalin, you seem com, I'm pissed you're pissed. Like you, don't seriously, just look like a mom looking at the ref like cause, he keeps telling me to get up. I'm like I have blood running down my face. I can hear say blood It is an area of exit friend, that's on your eyebrow sore yeah. He split it just underneath it sees butcher eyebrow and soon judo they down their allergic to blood, probably for good reason, but they so now you have to try to figure out how to are take that up yet which already sets out one of the most bad ass looks in Juba history. First, fifteen seconds, busting my open,

was that getting in the way of your I cited are not now tat. He was gonna gripping how difficult as it to get a grip on that guy. Very like I'm struggling just yet my hand and the collar, and he wasn't even blocking it is he being asia you yeah remember like is the interested nonsense, know he's a very cagey you dont methodical player like he'd. He never opens himself up they go? You grabbed the leg as part of a combination yet, and people have told me that he is actually very good at throwing people he jettison. So please doesnt show entities no cause, he he doesn't care air how he went. He cares that he wins the witch some very difficult to beat because he knows when you ve strategies to do that, where you are the rules that you develop a plan to get through the matches. Then you

gotta figure out a way to get that person off that game plan. You know whether you get ahead by a penalty or somethin right there, like he, wouldn't give me the sleeves had all of his fingers, nice in which eyes open like to like this way or I grab them the other way. I started lifting them. I thought nice May I mercy like this This is great because he wouldn't give me the sleeve and I needed an attack, and I'm like I can't hold onto this forever. Cosette judges gonna see its. Allow me just do a quick throw here, while I'm using their fingers in the years lowering on yours, and I really set out here and then he goes. Get up, and I gotta get on top and right here, nice lad above you get him you gotta yeah looks like I elbow him. You do it can have. No, I didn't I

The time I never knew this happened until after I watched this like three or four years later, didn't. Even I didn't feel it look at that. He's legitimate anger, he got his angry. Of course you can you can't move? Why would you look at this moment right there? god. If, when I was a baby you're missing out, he do you never get the sin judah now, I'm not! ever happened that little face off, especially on a stage like this, the reference and then he brings us until I talked to us any like hey, We're good riah here, as are about to do I think you're about here. Are you put it it's like hey shake hands again, because the first time we did it, I wasn't good enough will yet again the heartbreaking part about this and why the idea switched to an unlimited golden score because we fought five minutes. Through the entire normal.

Of the match and then we did the entire overtime period of three minutes. Now. penalty was given no gripping infractions deal, girls goals, attacks like great there was that nobody is really backing up yet I mean, as you know, so what was Jimmy tell you here? he too was talking to you at all. He is not allowed to talk during medical things and My nose is now broken, but he's us off. Is broken from what I caught an elbow from him got his faces clean, that's fun at right. Here, like I was passed, I was so angry. At the medic because he's fumbling around and I'm like my whole plan, is to break the german mentally yeah. You gotta hurry up with the tape man like he's supposed to be tired, like he's not supposed to be resting Is jimmy yelling here yet

not here not here, but during the match year, and you can see- I just take it from him and I might give it to me I'm going to do it myself get out here. How scared is the there's gotta, be the candidate had a date, I got nervous, he is yeah. We made fun of him for this. Yes, so much throughout the years still do to this day. Alright, here we go. While you are great, care, really see, don't care what he saw I'll come in your mind? You capacity beat him on the ground with an omission or or pen. You knew you gonna, throw I do I was gonna have to. If I was gonna throw him. On bar him or pen him. Whatever the case may be, it was gonna, be his mental alike. I'm just tired of this right. He's too cage player he's too experienced. You know he asked immensely make that choice to give that inch, and then you just have to be ready to take it. So I was just waiting for it.

and sir. Now this is for medicine, one minute left, yeah look! Oh. Is that your game plan to potential likes soom, engage thickly sacrifice. Thurston is the whole point of that that technique and the sacrifice throws. Wasn't because I thought I was gonna throw him, but it did ups the pattern enough to like get him to make a potential miss. I see you should a gardener, she'd or their hands in the face, but again this is part of Judah there. He put me on the other this is a rough match. It does act at all or no like was the acting frustrate or anything like that was all like his thick act for the refuge on me. I got that of that kind of stuff. You're just go in and get hard nosed thought same angry, aggressive feeling are you here at all like I don't. I didn't tired during this managers always pay

full time, runs out now into golden score, twelve minutes and thirty eight. Secondly, yeah you think at every euro exchange rate. Every time you rip up every time we attack, sometimes it can take long to get back to the line than the entire change, some of them, crash in the march as you have them yet the long at it. The time stretches now here the six seconds latin gonna score your tape as a I like the yellow and red with sweat and blood literally and times out now. Were you thinking here? Do you think you won the match? I I thought I won the match a minute ago. I remember thinking to myself like if this goes to the flags. I won no doubt in my mind, because I felt like the whole time like I was going to him right. He was never.

Coming at me. Yeah, that's the way it felt- and I like does the weight for body language wise, just the intensity, how fast you're moving towards him, your constant going for throws. Now, if you wanna be why now we can talk about the whole cause, it's part of this club, so white women. They all went blue. They are sowing judo there's three referees too on the side. One cent and they all vote until now. It's posit right there now the way this is supposed to work, they raise their flags, they do like a one to count and then on three. They all raise it together. There now as a little pretext to this entire match. Up until this point, not one match at the olympic games has ever been a split decision, meaning out of three people.

One of them voted against the other group members, so they were all unified, blue or all unified white they're right, which is statistically difficult to. Imagine yes, mistake that they had a referee, meaning and sat down, is better for the olympics I've never had a split got so the question becomes, if you click that frame by frame. Right so right now we have all the rafts with their flags out and then click that so the middle middle dyers. He is all the way up all the way up. The other side, judges, and moved. We now have one side raf all the way up. Then we have a third side wrath all the way up here, so the theirs. The time point when the meal guys the flag all the way up, if not eighty. Ninety percent of the way there than the other

What does it and then the third one goes. so now the question becomes. Who really? I did. Outside wraps, really have an opinion or where they told to wait for the centre went to start and then lift whatever flag. The centre ref picked yeah. This disease Unfortunately, it is, it's very honest is very possible that they had this meeting this. the problem with the olympics. They sometimes is this off. The problem in the soviet union with communism, you think that committee knows was good for the people on once they decide universally

as opposed to letting the magic of the olympics be a be what it is, but nevertheless the in this case the center ref decided blue, like what do you think? Do you think it's just a shitty call or like he has the right to pick pioneer? The problem is, is other too? I dont think did then so when you do this framed by frame again right like I can see from my own perspective too, of the raft and I Then both blue right. So when you fast forward that a little bit to get life are the flags I see the two go blue and I go. Look over. I look at the other gonna make really all three. I fought for eight minutes and I Can't even get a vote, I didn't even get a penalty,

I can't even get about, and that's when I broke I like. Ah, I couldn't believe it. And I'm not gonna lie, he looked shot. I hear you're obviously lies crying literally clear eyes, and I think if, at the end amazing man show such a war, both people can't believe what happened. I know that's the and light Honestly, I wish we had the rules that we do today. As far as you. gordon score, because I I love to have seen what would have happened was Jimmy saying here too I mean, I guess, there's nothing to say: yeah he was kind of apologising for the way there. The scores went, casinos are badly want it, saw the match and without that

to win it based on lake. You know what happened but he probably with all his experience, knows that this is what the olympics are about. The rest. Sometimes we need the magic of a man while at the same I'm were at work here. Big sammy final in sport, that's dominated, a certain continents and when you look at that, rafts on the mat they're, all european here, you don't! it couldn't have been won, panam one african, one oceana, you know different like why'd, they ought to be european. But to be fair, is back to your son, a story dealt with stuff before in, and you ve won over this stuff. Before and that's why, like, I was broken a new law, you one here, those and when Hindered on that fur a year and a half like I couldn't even stand, I was done

I'm pretty sure, there's a slow motion replay on this when I wash aid all excited a fucking guy, the angel. Through he hey, hey, hi guys. I did it. Yes, oh years and I can t slow motion replay of the fao I I'll be raised the hard being broken drowse, just betting already watch what his reaction like he like you could see his mouth open in awe like they're, really yeah and he's looking at two raf, just like I am, he didn't celebrate until he looked at the third one at all, all three, Do you think he knew he made in his head? Like I don't take me really believed he was winning. He did enough to win yeah yeah when his mouth draw like all. Hey all three like that's, not really the reaction. You would give yeah. I mean those this war.

One of the greatest matches I've ever seen- I mean obviously painful for you, but that pain first of all sets the stage for, sixteen, but even without that, I think it was just a beautiful story at the olympics. You still the incredible job at the olympics, he stood toe to toe. I think. In in hindsight, having lost that match more from me and more for the support of has as a whole me losing that match design about winning stories about the fighting So in that made one hell of a story fight it It also has to do with you know. Treacheries, probably not the right word to use is probably the

wrong word entirely to use, but because of the conflict in the match and because of how the rafts handled the match their at the end, Ecru created controversy that was spoken about fur months on world media read, I remember articles being written about the olympics and you know it. wrapping and how it was corrupt and that match was one There was another one in fencing where life something happened with the timer where one of the fencers, I guess what happens in fencing the timer re sets up a second if it's down so the fence or got one second played out. I think like twenty seven or twenty eight times and then one on like thirty, so I there were like clock fixing for fancying. There was this match that I think you got

felicity, good or bad publicity is publicity for judah, and then you came back. to me. This is a hard thing after the heartbreak to step up and continue fighting right. I really really struggled like unbelievably struggled from twenty twelve to like twenty fourteen, almost quit numerous times. I was so angry. I mean at one point I got so mad at the idea of feed. like they were fucking me every step of the way I saw a water bottle at a referee after a match, I cussed out a ref, we want on a mad, I got suspended from the sport because I was so angry at that point in time an idea is the international year of federation, and there are the people to supply the referees based we, like the sound of guess, run this work done on what was here. So You sent a few emails. Two thousand fourteen fifteen-

he quitting one of them said mentally and physically broke in another said, with subject line, I'm done yep the way cuts, thin break you now So. If this broke you, you are rarely gone through a hard time as, like you know what we're just gonna like dumb it down a little bit and get the winds under about belt, I'm going to world cup, which is like three stages down or force stages down from MIKE. The olympic games like this should be like a cake. Walk like making a final of world cup should be a walk in the park I show up. I barely beat a sixteen year old kid. Barely then, I got smoked in the sector on a throne, three thought I was like, I'm fucking done, they changed all the fucker rules. They fly It's me out of the olympics like what am I supposed to do and it was at that

when I wrote the email where remember sitting at a bar? I don't drink by the way, sitting at a bar at the hotel having this email and gotta response back from jimmied. He was while just just stay for the training camp. Go to germany and then whatever happens, don't worry about it. We'll talk when you get home, I was like fuck that fact these people fuck the rules. I don't fucking. care anymore. I'm gonna, do you know the way I to do judo if I fucking She don't out fact damn that was my response. Came, Common olympic champion game become an olympic medalist with that kind of Thank you, you think are not was that's counterproductive, bia ditches checking, because maybe that's also liberating The expectation was no longer that Travis is gonna win this tournament. The expectation was travis. Gonna come home before pissed off

I have to figure out how to manage a pissed off person that trying to quit that shouldn't be quitting ends the peoples, believe that you can be a metal together. Who believe that jimmy believe did the t manage I believe that some of my teammates still believed it. My training partner still did but they're, not the one better cutting the weight, flying around feeling. Like you know, all of your judo, is I one void right, because at this point they took away lay grabs entirely. You couldn't breaker grip with two hands. the matter of Judah has changed again right, so I fucked out of it. They took away how I did you again and now it's got more difficult, so well, I'm sitting in the hotel it I'm sending this email, I remember, being at the training camp like.

I was like I don't even fucking couch roles. Are I'm just going to fucking throw people? I don't even care from cheating, doesn't matter to me I'll, just play stupid, yeah right. I just started going back and doing judo without delay grabs, but with all the same gripping that I was doing beforehand and then, when I got to germany, I was like I don't fucking, I would like. If I got a cheat to win, then I got a fucking sheet to win If I get shot out, I then I guess she got out and I won germany. What which event a jury, the german grand prix what is going to prepare a week after during the world cup because I was trying to do do judo around the new war said. I wasn't just trying to do judah right, because when you get to the highest level, your game tends to more for around

you know what can you can or cannot get away with? I was more focused on trying to figure out what I can't I can't get away with, and I stopped actively doing judo once said fuck. Whatever the real changes are, I'm just gonna keep. Don't you know the way. I know how to do judo and if I get a penalty, then so be it. So that that, when that star, the road back the rolling back year does now it's like, I don't care. If you penalize me and because I'm going to throw that guy anyways I'm going to beat him anyways and if I get a szeto for doing something wrong, then I'll just stop doing that one thing and just keep doing all the other thing that they told me I probably shouldn't be doing but they're, not calling me on its so gonna keep doin it well. You you find yourself to two thousand and sixteen olympics. That ever doubt by the way, after this, after two thousand and fourteen in germany,

I had a lot of doubt after the concussion and twenty fifteen. I remember when I first came back after four months of nothingness that, like even trying to like train the room, would start to light. Not the world on me and then, when I finally got over that I could start doing things again. I stepped on the mat the pan am- and I was like drawing is not the right word, but, like everything was being done in such as la motion like I had sandbags everywhere that, like I just couldn't, keep on neg mental fog. yeah, like I remember, fighting the brazilian fur in the semi final of pan ams. I was half way to this match on dislike, buys roll up on. My fucking yeah? I just fucking winged it and I got countered and thrown free porn, and I was like. Are you

What'd, do I couldn't even think clearly and that's when I was like- I may not come back there. You have control over her come back from this, as it is just your mind and yet are not operating that there were not like. I can like well my right hands, not working because it's fractured. Let me figure out a way. I can not use that like when your minds now working like the one thing you need like you gotta have it work through anything else. I needed that though. So how did you come from that time. When I wrote another email- and I was like I'm fucking off team usa- I'm not fuckin a mod done with usa, judo and done with the tour I was like. I quit, though I'm gonna go. Do my own thing near like whoa, whoa whoa can't quit now taxes and, like a year like, let's talk about this again cause it's the second time I've tried to quit and like through you drive, but when we sit down in Jimmy's office and he's like while awoke he can't quit you're gonna kick yourself. If you don't got a real

the town you right now, don't do that yourself figure out a way of like doing this, and I was like because, when we trained before we did it as a unit right, we all went to the same tournaments. We all went to the same training camps like you guys are treating me like on the same player, I used to be relied on operating at the level you think I'm operating at? I can't do that and he goes well. What do you want to do and I'll tell you what jimmy no I'm being serious, because my answer is some it never would have expected. Don't want you to send me to japan for three weeks and he was like really I hated Japan. I refused to go there up until this point, but I was like I have to get to a point where I can get so tired and get through it that, like my judo or come back in my body will learn again and always in japan, musical guy like what what else I, hi there is a high level of Judah. I was one of the top

given the wealthier, and so you can go with the best people in the world. You can go to war Then top level like strong players, yeah there's a lot of very strong players, is a lot of middle class players and there's a lot of volume of rounds. So you value all of it, the middle class to like that when you're tired, like you, can't just trade in areas where yours you're battle for every inch. At some point you have to be successful. Right, see you still, under duress and under strain and through exhaustion. You still have to have the ability to score while, if you're training with the best people in the world, all the time you're not always going to be able score, see still need those be level players in order to really develop again. What is it like, if you can meant briefly our norm: training in Japan. What what's it like to go into a different place, Providence speak the language that, while like

in isolation aspect too, it is purely jude are now. I really want it be isolated. No training partners know coaches. I wanted to get back to my routes and just learn how to fight again. I dont want to figure out how to beat the german. I dont want to figure out I can develop a new entry into my sale against you now, whoever it Maybe it's not. by hard fight. Let me get back to fighting when we get back to like root of who I am. What were those sessions like audio talkin, Five minute rounds like what what humphrys six min rounds. Thirty minute breaks, fourteen rounds recession, so it was a thirty minute break thirty, thirty, second rate, thirty. Second, the second break for, say what fourteen fourteen rounds fourteen rounds every day.

every day, five five days a week and then eleven or twelve rounds on saturday plus weightlifting plus rhyme persuade looting plus running so that those are hard rounds. Yet what was, if you like to go through that you have a bunch of via just a sea of black balls. Japan, I'm sure they're hunting, you a little bit Depending on who you are. I was hunter little bit like I didn't really struggle because of who I am them college athletes, they want to show to their coaches in there. You know higher players. Like all look, I can now the world number, whoever, but if you're, just a guy who shows up like them beating you doesn't provide any value are raise their status. Nobody you're you're status, raising, yes, so I was actually like in a city

we should nobody was watching me and I was free to just battle at my own will, which is what it was about for me, and you just push yourself. I knew how to do that. I know I push myself are you are when you doing these fourteen rouses every single one? It a stand alone. Thing for you, yeah she's, not trying to pay you're, so it should each as to as much exhaustion as I can get, but then there must be ones that were like as a ground nine, where you're got nothing left there to figure out how to score it's all you gotta do yet a survivor euro score. What's your memories of that those three weeks? What like what stands out here, I seems I gotta go

The place where he found the silver model because, as the place most people don't want to be everybody's comfortable, I would rather, I would rather find out who I am and what I made up and find those those endpoints, and if I can't find them, then that means everybody else has given up before me. Where there's a few people that just color you returned to battle over nor in those ties, and then it was just yet no social media. No no. There is just like to land use off in your room. You come back, you ve thought about it and you come back with a game plan for that day against some players here there and I would I would develop a hit list like. I would be all that tat. Mother, fucker grab me like thirteen, and I watched him The fucking four rounds in income try to kick the shadow me more fucking

That guy early on the beach- and you just did but that list those probably some epoch, I in their own right yeah. What's it look like a crowded. Is it very ass a year just like tat to see a people say, people Are you trying to do groundwork at all? Just those just throw this throws no transitions, no, nothing, but I get pissed off and, like you, keep drop in her like not let me do it. I want to do a rapid choke right across your face, just let you know that you're gonna fuck, when you have a really nice style of just like respectfully. Bullying the shit out of people could some people call me a bully. I have to remind them that, like a bully enjoys like beating up the week, I want to beat the person that fights back or exactly it's not fun. For me, if you don't fight back some of the greatest people I have seen,

I do this. They they. Basically I ever listen. I will iowa wrestling rooms, they push each other into the wall like they get. There's like my anger, but its ultimately, beneath it. As like a deep respect, I was training with cotton brown. One time I went to san jose state because I was in california for something and he kept like he kept circling to the edge they had like a cupboard that had like when you opened it. It had like all the tape and like medical puzzles like we're fucking puts you right through that and he gonna live. He gonna giggled. Anyone by that agile, random right through it. Yeah see me, that's an ultimate sign of respect that both you and cotton, nor yet member well and we're still. France is still talk. it's just. I told him I was going to do it. He knew I meant it to her and did it anyways they're. Just testing me. Yeah, listen this in that same attitude was that's thousands, japan, just day after day after day after day, forty rouses less rough

And you didn't set out rounds and I did it all with a broken in how How do you do with a broken hand? You show up every day you show up okay. I actually learned to write my right. Okay, so that's ok, so you can then focus on gripping with your left. It's always a way those away, but that means you can't. I guess you don't have to grip the right. Sometimes I would palm it with my thumb just like hanging out like this just like this, so you can do something you could do a ghost because he'd ever and cause I whoa you mean, throws your seo nagi created, aroma, okay, sue me, which he Mata shimmer, but you have this big like ago. She type of thing, yeah, but not from like around the waste, is from over the shoulder of the visual, and I can do it with just the one hand, as I which one hand the right one.

I dont believe city of hand. You don't you this event, but would you couldn't do with broken had good? I can just put my hand in the geese what can't come off and then you just. Because what happened was three days before I was leaving for japan. I my hand Was rested like this on a mat and the guy ball took my whole thumb off tor, all attendance in the palm so went to the doktor he was like you know: do we have put a cast on in IRAN, leaving in three days you're not putting a cast I go. This is what I want you to do. Just say this. I said I want you to build a cast that holds it that velcro around, so that when I'm not training, I can wear it yeah, but then, when I'm training I'll take it off and then I'll put the tape on it and then whatever hence happens- whatever happens happens right. So that's epic in that lead you to the two. Does

sixteen olympics in rio? Will that led me to winning? and am gold. When I got back from Japan and then almost getting my leg cut off in twenty fifteen thou was like I dunno, maybe a month or two later I was hospitalized for seven days. The leg being cut off for what I had three different types of bacterial infections. In my right leg, a whole leg swelled. And it was in my blood skin and in my bones my rightly so I got stuck it mg h in a hospital for seven days until they figured out what the bacteria source was. Where was the source of the infection Let me in the new year, occur so Obviously there is the danger of like that's life, threatening yet I went into the emergency room when I got back from the world's lady was like hey.

You need to call you gonna call cause. You may lose you like tonight, and then they put me in the hospital. What do you think this whole time? I something thinking about olympics. They put me in. The room like four hours later the doktor came in I was at mgh in boston and he was like serious infection. Your leg I go he's like we have to keep you hospitalized into can figure out what it is and I was like buddy I wanted. In less than a year. I don't give a fuck what it is. I just fuckin take it out and let me get off my day he goes. We can't do that. Like I understand I got you you told me in infected. Just cut away that part of the tissue drain. do we have yet to do and then sent me on my way is like it doesnt work like that. He said until we figure out what it is, we can't figure out how to stop it from growing more how far too So it took him seven days to figure out what it was then, once they

what it was. I went in for surgery to remove it. Then I spent it was eight weeks. In in home care with a pic line, and then I came back from that in the first week how'd you do. I tore mass, I joint trying to throw a guy, and then I came back from that about a month later, and then said the colonel cup. the game six months later, how quickly to doctors understand who they're doing with like that difficult future. Explain who travel students is when you go to visit a doctor. I dont think they are. I stand. You know. Their role is to get me to do my job to the best of their ability as a doctor, meaning it's going to be less than what they want.

And they end they struggle conceptually with like, but the textbook tells me this, and but I'm not a textbook ride like when you go a physical therapy. The first thing they do. Is they pull out that binder? That says day one we do this exercise. I go I have my own goals. Your job is done. Me meet my goal: let's, let's work a plan to do that or I gotta go, find somebody else. The de da de doctors in general people outside of your close knit group step up. If they didn't. I found somebody else and typically I could find a person who new, the right person. I was wonder with people like us up, I'm costly, surrounded by one of them. He's. Probably my life has been there's a lot of people. My life love me very much, but who want me do the equivalent of that situation, do you don't go to the olympics and definitely like take

seems like the world is full of people. They want you to be average and happy that's his great, which is fine. I mean I'd, perhaps as the way should be they my parents, people close. It is that's what love, how love manifests itself, often and people, but then, like, I think, the ultimate. manifestation of love, is understanding who this person is his mad man, whose driven towards a particular thing, and the best thing for you to do is not to say like rest is to say work carter like fuck you faction yeah, you should be training. Have you ever met anybody as crazy as you that can help you most of us who would get to this point? Get there be we're all a little unstable. Yet even my I've got a right like when He was getting ready for twenty sixteen or once you get

ready for twenty twenty cause. She moved to boston onto be a coach. She had a neck problem right ends. Had that at some point in time it's like what's really important day to day life, would you and believe it or not. The doktor in canada was like. I am never under any circumstances doing an mri of your neck. Again, that's what she told her if you have me, do an mri you're not doing Joe again so just now, if you hurt your neck and it requires an mri. Your damage, utah forever yeah so decide. If you want to do judo or not, that was a conversation we actually had to have. That's a cool thing for a doctor to say I mean depends how bad as they sound

when I say that as the top cartesian judah one, which was this with your wife, was that relationship lakes, you both a little crazy, a little bit in the good sense or if it from my perspective and good sense, yeah it's just we've. We understand that when it, when you set a goal to do something, you're, not signing on for the good. Your signing on for the bad, and I don't think a lot of people understand valentine's day card from travesty. This you have to like accept everything negative that could possibly happen. and until you do you're never gonna make it. Could you always tell yourself short you'll, never go far enough. And if you sign up for the whole thing than the negative is just like all great than I expected that if your experience in the negative there also experience the negative, and if you have a comment, maybe they'll get not

forget. Maybe they won't deal with their? Maybe they won't train through it right when I am. five her native disk announcing a neck brace. I was still in the german seven I am doing whatever it is. I could do because my job is to be at the gym David goggins. I don't know if you know the guy he's he's gone, he's damaged a lots of parts of his body like you trying to achieve things. So you know, unlike you, his achieve hence our like yours. Humans come with the metal. He is running in the darkness in the middle of nowhere by himself is like what I mean is the same problem is with you. If you are able to be introspective about it, is here battling his own inner demons and working through those and is breaking up a break in his body? Doing so are you cognizant The trade off of the five eight euro,

you're damaging your body to get to these levels of achievements of this level of accidents of this level of greatness a mean. I guess that depends on what you can damage eurylochus, I dont really see that I have damaged my body. If anything, I think I've strengthened it a body goes you more than your skin, whose is weaker right it suggested. I it's just like the thai boxers writer in order strengthen their chance. I gotta break in a few times near just nature. The beast you just had to break a bunch of stuff to find where the weak- wine, sir, and then made them stronger or strengthen the areas around it to strengthen it by the sheer relation to it, but the promise like you may not be able to do judo like four until your seventy one up

I may not be able to do judo to the level I used to yeah. Don't get me wrong, but I can still do he could stood and I think a lot of people struggle with they want to keep doing it like they used to be able to do it. Don't try to do judo like I used to like you're saying here. I can not that guy anymore. I accept that. Aren't even try to be that guy anymore completely different players today than I am, but I was winning olympic, So I guess when you're looking at like my journey and the trade off is I'd, never sacrificed anything. The people around me sacrificed for me, And I'd never had a downturn after the olympics because I never identified as an olympia.

You know a lot of olympians suffer from depression at calais, identify as it now they dont have who they are. Where was your personal moment of greatness like or do not experience life that way or you were truly proud to be yourself like every day with europe. You wake up and you're not proud of who you are, then Really got to seek out some like hell, so that's for thought. All! Okay Oh I'll. Do that because a deafening that product of? Why am I just wonder if you identify with the olympics was their times. Maybe in the training room may be in japan, ike were euro. You just kind of felt like I get more of an emotional. I yes trigger right, where, like I feel proud of what I've done when I've set to attend.

Ask and I've done it so almost eight task and the more challenging the task, the more reward you follow. A lot of amazing battles and two thousand sixteen olympics. She got you beat the sea the world number four in the quarter files. It's like a replay every single when pigs, your All the beauty I got was terrible, draw the same terrible draws and then you're facing this is where I was like watching this. I'm like yeah. He screwed you face the world number one, the georgian in by by the way for people who don't know he beat me.

five times to my beating him once and the one time I beat him was in london and all other times he beat me. He beat me by one and not by like a little through like he threw me on my head at one point we were in georgia and fighting him in the final I go to my teammate. I go guess what may she watched his fight somebody's getting toned free, pawn, this matching and this a magical resistance, and about a minute in I tried to take his head off with a big koshy grow. Mulch is like a head and arm. He caught me and then threw me on my head and ended the match. So, first of all, we were watching the video of you again standing next to the to the guy. leading up jason find a match. So here a few are, if you When this you guarantee the metal yet, but the Of your winning from my fan perspective as perspectives, it are you and the rest of the world, except for me he said for you what what? What are you saying, you're talking yourself here? What are you saying? My

m is travis Stevens, I'm a leopard champion. I will not be denied converges problem with that. How does this guy say was italian himself, so he is probably archer. Confident yeah had to the difference. Is, is I understood the last five times he beat me. I was purposely trying to throw him not beat him. I wanted to find out if I could turns out again, by only to throw him to beat him. I need to know how to not lose. But you're, still going for stuff here, but all of my attacks drag him to the ground

get dragged there never standing on my feet, which is a complete, which is a distinction that we talked about at the very beginning rain you have throws where you're standing and throws, where you're dropping every time I try to throw him standing. He throws me free pony, picks me up and he throws me on my head literally. So what I did is I just needed to get to that. one minute mark which is what he does mentally in his own judo, where he changes into a panic and just tries to like do things that are uncharacteristic. So you know he's gonna start peggy here as good as the magical draws to a close and you both. However You know, and I found the least did we passed the point where I went for broken. I broke my role, which one I went fer a crazy foot sweep like a pound switch thing, I came about it. dogs is not use that often, and

He actually landed on top of me in some people wanted it to be called a bone, but he had asked the let go of. The g looking for the mass, so he didn't have any control slated know what I'm a point. Here we go now we're getting down into the shi ite he's getting frustrated great. I love it perfect. Second penalty. Mobile we just gotta get to the woman a marked, so we had to do. so there's. No panic here, for you you'd know, is very right. Need to be and look it now. If you go back into this match by. I would love for really go back and see how many times he did a drop right. He ponce nagy, probably never so why is he doing it now because he pay, Next, any changes is juno. Not one cent, a martian, so that look Look how much I kept that grip yeah, you kept! You have their grip. This

all time yet of your left hand, lock in and down walking him down that he he you keep the grip as he's throwing yet which two were you thinking choke as he drops are. No, it's just kind of natural instinct yup cannot be drilled. It I spent two years drilling. The Transition and then very for people on don't do judo just so. It's like really nice ye keep. Everything is nicely. Control Were you keeping that key under his chin? I could really take control like it's very, like your kong. I guess it's drilling but you're cognizant of the position of your wrist the whole time and you can tell based like just years of doing it, whether its under or it's not right, you can feel the difference and is probably even if you wanted to stop. That is very difficult. As you call times, Once it's under its almost impossible to stop for people were practice, geodesic dome practice

One of the very annoying things about judo is in order to do give chokes. There have to be under the chin. Yes, Even though the kind of intense jokes you do work, just fine, Jim, but unlike the kicker here, and why we practise this joke. Was because when you go back and watch all of the other matches, he always does this tripod. When I try to do our marks year, which is typically what I would do and when I do that, He ends up sliding out my end up falling off, so you step up here with the choke he does a tripod. Sticks his button to the air, and you do with the name of this choke. On era No, but ok by me, when you do from like from that position Is there a way this entry into the bow? I guess cause you're dead We we referred to enjoy a british strangle bush when

when there in that turtle position- and you do that rolling ocean- and here when you go into thy eyes, you can fall off of, unlike he said. If you go for it, bar the here literally because you have it under the church, and really well, there's just a nice control and have I planned on it being on his chin? That's why I've hooked the arm yeah right, it's already starting to go straight. Probably this choke in the early stages, like a few frames before feels like it or like you're safe. If it's fine like, like the head, will slip out or something like that. I and that's why my left me is up by his shoulder to keep that pressure down so that he can't posture it up. When did you know You have this rig, I

I actually pan it right about here. was maybe has had to come out my hand. and I took the muscle in my palm pulling saw. hard that, unlike may not tat near like as he is my hand, is gonna, give out beforehand and there you were right on this head right like We roll a little bit outside and I still don't have it like their rough could stop it, and then I felt him tapping that he is his heart broken. I thought surprise it is the relieve olympic olympic final. and he knew he knew. He lost an olympic moderator.

because he already knew that the japanese guy was gonna, be his bronze, that he never beats see the. but also he probably in his head, was confident that he be in the final, correct and so like this. He almost is surprised yeah. This not supposed to happen this way as the second time. It's happened, That's how you became an olympic medalist man. There must be a great feeling and must be a great feeling here. just like all the years of injuries, all of it as as

that watch this too it's like holy shit. He actually did it at a pack stadium to not one empty seat. Man, so are they worry thinking here? I just on the next match. Yeah it took me maybe like a man or so to like decompress and then might get back to like my normal state. For the final. So the the fine off is against the I hear what you say about your minds? Was you say no, same thing: they travel agents and let the champion I will not be denied because I felt like in london and throughout the years have felt like, I kept getting robbed. So I made sure my montier tad that little bit at the end, to reassure

I saw that like they are not going to control the outcome today. I'm gonna conferred the outcome. What did you know about the russian everything and I I honestly I thought I'd when the olympics right now and I still do think that today, just like mentally when you think about it that I've won like yeah, he threw me. But it was a one in a million chance that that worked for him come on, so that says now, You feel lucky to be in the final it psych. yeah. You guess I remember, I'm I'm anticipating the like I'm, I'm pass that either the confidence in the way you're moving in the warrior. Yeah like I have his sleeve he's, not breaking it like still walking him down still going forward like, and I knew exactly how I was going to beat him and I

envelop the plan, because when I was getting ready for rio, we brought in a lot of the top japanese players that weren't invited to the camp for the national team to Boston. So I had poor people, three of them on the national team, one of them had won the university in japan, all at anyone kilos island are thrown once during camp for a month where I was, I was ready. I just a fuckin slipped. Where does it happen right when he threw me? So if you let this play out really quick. A point right here. I'm gonna come around his back and I'm gonna gonna just yoko suit may, which means like a lateral drop and items can bring him down to the floor, which is in a throw right here. It's more like it. I take down, I'm trying to get him to the ground. Is I want to burn em? He doesn't duty. Was farms going to keep burn, it

and you can see that, like I get really close here, he. When a little too far to his side during this exchange and like iran in my guy. He's very winery for an eighty one kg you player, yeah, there's not much a muslim. But he uses his life and his leverage very well- and you can see like they burn the clock. You, like I'm owning, exchanges more than I am owning the touch. You also wants the ones in her feet, so you weren't trying to necessarily admit him here up are like really harder like Panem you're, trying to break him a bit, I'm doing both on being overly physical, and a lot of the bee j J people were watching this lake there. All I would have done this. I would have done now. You ve gotta, think like if that referee, whose

in the judo cited it looks at it for a couple seconds like he's not really moving to stop it the year like you understood and judo yeah with called me I've gone work like what you, because you're really showing it to the rough. Yes, you have to show movement and progression at the forehead like she. I do. That and in they're kind of hard yeah repeated across his face. Just because the I gotta I gotta tell you, there's a calm all nope, he does look a little a little broken, but the the russians have like this calmness. They're, pretty good at will. Don't forget, they've competed like this for a long time yeah, it's all he knows and as the rye lose it see how my knee hit the ground. My knee wasn't supposed to touch the ground here I was supposed to sit to my hip. To bring him down.

Something happened where might need touched and it didn't happen in the first one. It should happen their site that we never should have been in that predicament, and that's that's why the things where, when you're looking at you know sport anybody who is trying to improve you after when you're we are trying to improve you. Ve really got to ignore the ends of the spectrums right, the the loop and they got lucky, and you only folk on the middle, like the technique I was doing, was perfectly sound, the digital then, that the one o t happened on the stage it shouldn't have happened on and there No there's! No!

amount of drilling that will ever like prevent that from happening, and that's just the the that sports that sports, especially the olympics, especially judo when it's like one year, Gordon was at hc, can just be your that's it. You know it really requires, and you have to wrap your head around the idea of like if you want the ability to beat these people and throw these people you gotta, be willing to get thrown yourself like this is boxing there's no like stand in a place where he can't hit me, and I can hit him because we have the key and, as they can grab it? They have just as much abilities, are you as you them sarge a few here? How long was The duration of you feeling upset the eating, get the gold verses, never felt it never father, just because he didn't beat me right and important distinction. Because when on training and when I'm competing like I

Understand that I take risks and I accept those consequences. That's why I take them. That's a consequence. That's not him being the better judo player that year, dominated a match- and I didn't have an answer and then he threw me, then I would be a little upset like one tired and somebody's common out. You, unlike you, can't do anything about it. That's a shitty feeling you know, and that was in this that wasn't this like. I accept losing when it's when it's my fault. while those a hell of a story- man of from two thousand eight two thousand twelve justice sheer number of injuries the way cuts. All of that the wanting to quit the the doubts. I'm sure you deny get like the fans probably started disappearing somewhere between the second and the third limp makes like the support for

it did judo within the united states and just everybody I also see tried to cut all my funding and twenty fifteen insane while you too old yeah, so through all of add to win the metal. I mean that's what the olympics is about is. Is there some like when you back? They seem like another person just like another life time ago or like this, a Heaven accomplishment? How do you feel about the whole thing is it's an interesting kind of predicament because there's like those He caught her answers about how proud you are and how grateful you are, but at the end of the day, it's not who you are so that skill set and that mentality that you know it took to accomplish that. That's who you are and so.

This was just a stepping stone in in who I am so it's in the past. To me, like there's, no shrine in my house that has like an olympic madeline? It, I can remember, Last time I looked at it, you saying, like the all the story Is the skills along the way? That's that you re now said he hears the shrines, yeah the who you become along the journey is really what the prizes right like when you think about any of them most of the people that you know go through that depression after the games. It's because that is their shrine like that is who they buy dead to fight as that is who they ve told the world the community, their friends, their family, that's how they buy dandified ivy dent defined as a person who perseveres overcomes and accepts challenges.

So, like I'd, all those things are just like you know, put in a suit is off to the side, and I'm onto the next great chapter thing that I'm trying to do in its is both sad and cool. The term very few people in the world get too to experience. What it's like to be you I mean this level of of having gone, through that the journey everyone has the opportunity to yeah yeah, I mean I've done. A few difficult things in my life, but I gotta tell you, wait cuts and sauna until people right now we're listening like dont, go through that and I think a lot of wrestlers a lotta young judo players. A lot of long young, like just combat sports people were wait. Classes are a thing they also,

take a sense of pride like when I hear them talking about like all how much weight do you have to cut if you have to cut a pound more, it's like you, ve accomplished more, like you're, tougher, like you're, not like, there's, no regional trophies for that. You, whatever the reason, had a job to do and you gotta done and that that is true, inspiring no matter how hard that there's a big, deep lesson to learn from that met than you according to the specific, so whether you should wear cut or not, but if we don't than most the great things we have in this world who wouldn't have the reason we have many of the great things, because people did that way cut the crap Of the way, cod for whatever the discipline- and there is a difference between having to do it because you have to- and you get yeah, then setting yourself up to do that, because you think it's the cool thing then you're supposed to be doing in order to be successful yet

we have like two time olympic medalist, I probably Could have been a two time olympic medalist had I not cut that much weight I probably would have multiple world metals. Had I not cut that much My body wouldn't have been that broken. There's always there side of it. So just when you're looking at it. Like I just hear it in might young it even some of my own, like when you hear them talk about like where their way tat, they almost take a sense of pride on how much they have to lose because they hear stories like this and it's like that's not the take away. I did it because I had to. I was put in a situation where, like I may not have gone to this games at, I moved up to ninety kilos would have had time to grow into the division, and then you get the job done

you get the job done right. There is a very important difference and they are also asleep this. Where people talk to me about this should not be any glorification of not sleeping yes, there should not be a glorification of cutting way. But if that's on the way to your whatever is that fight? inside you d know needs to get done like the job, a hand. If you need to sack Eyes and some of those ways you get the job done yes in the wake of is an interesting one, because, as different I mean you, you could speak to this this different sports in which, wait is more important than others and their different levels to this game I think at the level you operated in, there was probably a central yeah like there's huge games changed completely from eighty one kg to ninety kg. The huge weight jump is: is

Her thoughts way within the strategy is like so much changes the high and all those kinds of things. The physical like people, don't understand it, but the fish go size of at ninety kilos, zero player vs the physical size of an eighty one kilo, judo player. It's like putting a human in a human like there's enough air space that is not like. You know you could and next to your friend who's. One hundred and eighty pounds- and you could be one sixty and you guys- could look identical yeah. It is different when both the ninety kilos hundred keele and eighty one kilos both have six percent body fat and they're cutting into the class It always feels like there's more variety at ninety kilos cause. Some of them are lincoln tall and some some short and stocky darcie is a good one. More uniform which, but then you know the flip side of that, is the this. Is why, like india, jitsu again amateur competing Guess bigger guys, like I love, more like a like cutting wages. Some slim like this when I feel the best one the thing that you mentioned, but I

I have going as two hundred and two to twenty, that is in jujitsu that the weight doesn't get amplified in the sport like the weight is just the weight right. If you can, if you can leg press to twenty You can badge to twenty, then yeah. You can train with a guy who's to twice ass much easier than I can. I hurt you and I mean there's there. Is it a truth that, light weights and middle ways in jujitsu, and the same is true for judo is just like a lot more of them than means, if you wanna be, is it just competing at a higher level, so lake. As much more variety of games the levels? which higher saw you taken on a bigger challenge, even if you're, like have awaited vantage, said, though, all decisions is easy at the kind of making, certainly ingested people way cutting are silly and me. That's that's. The natural beginner thing to do is to feel

the way the nervousness about competition expresses itself is through the desire to be as light as possible which, the totally wrong desire to have right like when you, when you look at me now, I'm probably light to thirty right, but I but we have the strength of a seventy kilos, judo player The weight doesn't really do much. Let me have the same through a rustling. Yes, guinea. Skinny guys the skinny you that we're looking at they're just the amount of power in that person, he asked fascinating because it doesn't look like you have some muscle, but doesn't look, but I've felt the power some of those people yeah. Ah it's scary yeah, it's a different! That's the best way I can describe it is the scariest ghost shit again as the food chain you're not at the top of the fortune. Here are the best natural feeling. When you go with some judo people,

what what's your sense about this recent olympics, what does stands out to you, as so I gotta tell you, are narrow, who was in a big run for a long time, make a thing to be one greatest judo place of all time. who time olympic golden medalists at around him and asked to talented bronze my less a forlorn closure, not can't like team stuff, just doing individual and then like you, have not had a higher moral gm yeah, further gonna catalogue that team of that like? Are they all taken? A real unperturbed, peons oars france and I became pm. they're, all technically illegal champions, but I'm getting nor that is and how they're going Classify it now going outside according to what the peter like, according to internet at an entire J or whatever it? You know, some of those players never won a match. They just filled a spot. Oh, that's even starker example of this,

Now they lost in the individual and then they also lost in the team. And so what is this thing because in the case of thought, a teddy he was in are important to the one against japan in this le big, so lake, in the team of that so like. If you feel like you, put that an equation to say who one gold right it? Does you like one gold in the team because he carried the team while you Like the more at sixty kilos from Japan three times God medalist, not even here. Are you. Are you going to weigh teddy's team event? No, no! We're not all not arguing this. Of course, no, I'm just wondering how, like the I j f like when you look at a player, stat yeah, is it going to be like team gold medal for the olympics vs their own personal gold medal. Yeah. I think in sport

be brutally honest? And I think I hopefully this doesn't piss off people alpatych. but judo is an individual sport. It's honestly just that one athlete may be the athlete in coach. If you look at the big big picture, but there's no there's not team in judo, that's the beauty of combat sports! That's that honesty of it, that's the the brutality of losing to another human being in a combat sport, as was so damn embarrassingly gets? The lamb is because it's like you, there's no team to till. I carry some of their response. Please all on you and you suck as what you lost. There's that weight and that's why it's a magical. It's not it's not like soccer. It's not the side, basketball yeah! I couldn't play team sport because if one My teammates wasn't doing their job correctly. I would go play their position back and I'm going to do it better than you yet, but that you know.

some of the greatest leaders of teams, also do that Michael Jordan is like that right, I mean it's like with your actions. You raised the the level for everybody, like excellence is expected, and therefore everybody needs to step up so summit. So the greatest, I would say a team leaders are individualist the heart, but it's ok, daddy. I think and time will champion not yet regular, regular. Ah it's a big number, but I think he has some like open weight categories and open weight. Very I mean you can count those right. I mean that that's interesting les cayes the same division twice sustained. and twice that's right. One day after another thing, I don't know if I'm gonna content yeah. Well, I mean one of the reasons. People don't usually put heavyweights in judo as like the greatest of all time, because the level of competition is lower. Yes, but anyway that he did lose in this match to arm

to a young russian the up, ten november chef match also not on the internet. Thank you olympics I am definitely going to go on some rats on the internet as a as as a fan of the olympics, I feel it is definitely is change moving forward, the like every single major olympic event, alas, like owsley random sports at will Thing, even though I don't do a month ago, lifting its fun just a watch fund, a watch, the such high level of excellence and the fact that we can't just frickin wash the full like each nice categorized event is really heartbreaking in judo. In now, at the great lifting track and Nastase all that anyway said teddy loss than that disaster our two. If you like recap things that you remember from this olympic, I picked him losing already like them. I predictions lose.

Which, where that match or just in jail somewhere in the final in the file you thought yet. Finally, I was at sunday when I looked his draw, because he decided not to compete throughout through a lotta do like the bare minimum to go because of his. age, I didn't think. He would have enough energy to battle his way through the draw that he had and sure enough. He didn't He felt earlier than I thought, but he just he's not the young flooding person he used to be and they changed the rules to judo. They allowed people to take people into really really deep waters, which he saw this long, which you know. it did IRAN. This border did not like the not sure, but it was definitely difficult to watch. Would you put him at the greatest

at the time or asked another way like who do you think is the greatest judo player of all time he's definitely not the greatest judo player, but he's definitely. The best competitor was the difference in judo player and competitor. There's an ability to like do the act of judo of like throwing being or mocking verses. Can you wanna Juno match right? When you look at somebody like no more like through everyone he fought through three olympics. Multiple world championships, multiple things like that up here, judo player in the essence of judo. He can throw pen or arm watch just about anybody. He stepped on a mat with during his time teddy tended to when you look at his judo,

because of his size again it just because he is inadequate category, he was so much bigger, so much stronger people just couldn't handle it, and you would see really good judo players just break like they could. In there for a little bit, but eventually his size, like you, can't control that wait, wait moves weight and we have to use all your strength to keep him upright and off of you Your muscles just give out could have somebody that stature and that skill like to train with to train those muscles. So what you're thinking more like those are sound three eighty one, ninety cagey people there just stand in the park and just give yeah everything like what to my mind, is like a cobra cover, now and tomorrow who's a sixty kilo guy but again like his dynamics and how long he was dominant for like it. Just do you put value to lake

a big throws like singular moments of greatness. If it against A noteworthy player in a noteworthy position there a lot of highlights of people that are good judo players, but their highlights her of me now scrubbs on the idea of circuit, but it's like great, the japanese guys who the guy from you know senegal, free people, create. We kind of expected that you took the world's number one against the three hundred and thirty as person in the world would, you think, was going to happen like when I see those highlights likes around my social media. Unlike that's, not a highlight, they might as well just then, at the dodo like practice and throws, if you look at it, like top ten list for judo carnal always comes up in our eyes. but he's not somebody that I don't think he's right.

Also there, but you don't really know how he got there. So it's it's hard for me. It's like, I can't see his judah, so I'm not sure, kind of by the way is the founder of judo for people who don't are considered to be the founder of Judah. Yet the sport evolves yet the players that it like, if you took champions from the past and you fought them against the players of today- there's just not happening, and that goes with anything right. So, every time think of like who's the best of all time. It's probably somebody within a generation or two of today. If I'm gonna pick my my top three but I'll say top three, and I would go generationally speaking. I would pick on offer today. Probably iliad is for, like my time frame like that. from the developmental standpoint, and then I probably go coca and then before call I'd, probably gonna more.

as light. The person of that generation that people alike. as a whole and judah respected yeah one case I wonder if people feared color yeah, I hear that little guys getting in india again for a ride. You know he was seventy eight kilos when he took second at the arch pans, which is an open, wait class. You know like he He could throw down with anybody anyway class and still when he was the early people that planted the seed of Judah love of junior like where and when I look get him like that How light I wanted my judah to be portrayed that style and I know you silly odyssey just like a similar attitude as him. He just like the way he casually get along,

You guys hang out, you were at love. I see that conversation. I remember when we are talking about like his coaching. I was lake. Why didn't you take this team are like why'd. You pick this team and he's like. I can't work with those people like those people are weak other, like they don't ya, to train heart of that guy what about owner cause he was competing in this olympics. He got here golden this olympics rate. Ah yeah yeah he lost in the team tournament, though I think he just didn't care yeah. He just really wanted to throw that guy. He like throws everybody sees, he represents thing your mentioning I signed up to the Judah fanatics best of ah, oh no is theirs in its desire to you about him. That's especially you find beautiful, like or powerful about a technique. Each is it, the ability to the situations and understanding of like what needs to happen in order to throw these people. I specifically watched a match.

with his, and I was gonna. Do a breakdown video on it, because zero Do you remember what it is? It's him This is a guarantee of hungary. Is he with gripping so watching the match against hungary said the one man so right here coming up, I've heard he's freakish these strong I've never had the ability to to train with them. Some not icy, looks super skinny. but when you see him without a ski jacket on, like fear that he's a jack do, which is on characteristic of a japanese player from back in the day in a way changed all that he was like we're. Gonna get physical to compete with europeans. That's another one of the great yeah he doesn't get mention enough. He's already here, yeah, okay- and this is worrisome- Second, it up, so you can see

He was standing, I'm like left handed stance than he changes. The a e groups, almost a good double double sleep, not a w. The rice of the set and the front sleet standing like lefty an old body grip, just correct, rye, serpents sleeve and those like the the biggest whip? and twist of unusual mater Yeah aim is not lift him off the floor here and if you look at it and like slow motion almost and doubts yet area The hungarian player was like a hundred per cent defence and he still did this right so right here, like press boss, this this is like an idea

If I, if you're trying to like learned, you, don't figure out how to set it up, because knowing how to get to the point right before you pull, the trigger is probably the most important. So when we watch this play out, what ono's going to do as he's going to pivot off his right leg right here, he's going to back step with his left and it's going to pour when garvey his front leg all the way forward into what we would call it. actual square stance, so he plants hard and look interesting, pull the trigger. Oh, no, it's not try, so he almost like it. He starts the tries to be like collects the gear, something like that. But it's still above the elbow cause. You can see the band right and right here see how he never put back it up a little bit That this is kind of like one of those things yet posit right there. So when he puts his right foot down he's pulling saw hard with it.

back in that when honour goes to put his left foot down, it never touches the man, but by putting his left foot back, it actually pausing garbage put forward. And so he is able to speed up his throw by just continuing that motion back near which what was supposed to have been a step turned out to just, In the middle of the action he makes a split second decision before putting the foot down to just continue yeah. Could he recognizes that feel in his hands here, and so it's like it. Never is the swing like he never touches the god it never. It never started as like a big swing to a step yeah. He changed his mind. Part way through so there'd be about that right out here and then he goes nope he's bringing that foot ford, I'm just going to go for it and wait is the full legal heir look at a boom boom and look at if you go a few more steps forward, right there. His hip is the same high, is garbage shoulder here.

because meaning so far into the throw with his body weight, and he's allowing that try set grip to rotate. That's gonna draw gourbi forward, and now, when you pause it right here, you think about the sheer physics delights. Yet your body into this position. Jimmy and I were so like when we saw this for the first time we tried to just stand like that and we couldn't do it. His left foot is pointing straight ahead. His asked is perpendicular to that, for a parallel with the right in his head is by his foot. Is that only possible, in the midst of a throne, you think he works on make like, I think he's done. This particular ro, not this style of it, but which he might have so much that his body has adapted to be able to do this So when people are trying to learn and like breakdown videos, they don't under unlike the power He has and what we

call end range motion. Euralia. That's like look at the full range of motion, he takes right yeah that left foot swim all the way around and the torso starts like at three lock and goes all the way around. Like almost back to the three o clock yeah, I like that and he never left his leg above his head and the crazy part is he never fell over during any of it- look at that stage on his feet. What's he doing. Is that, as a matter of pride, urges skin? I think that's just habit the way the forces work like he can just stay up. I am one of those beautiful throws ever seen. there's so much wrong with it, but it worked the war, because when you think about member, we talked about the very beginning, like he's, gotta get his hand

gravity under his well. Here is one of the top. there's a in the world, throwing another top player in the world with his hip at that guy, shoulder height and it still working its look ass though he had this generation. He could be the great yeah and my case which the lot of those details of the in the middle in them. A name that that only is I mean he's probably what like a hundred thousand times at throws happened yet. I saw your into just recently the year like me, a bit of a big in chess or you're part of launching the website effective chess. So I gotta ask maybe it's a personal question, but do you have advice to yourself and to other beginners in exploring chess have had to one have fun to do? start getting good. It's nice to see like olympic caliber athlete, take on a difficult task with a beginners mind so like what's that process like on my head,

huge fan of just learning new things in general, right like when I left judo like I took a job as you know: marketing fur, fruity sports and I was getting fuss with designers, so I won't photoshop. I also got angry with photographers. So now I take all the photos to just because I mind. Learning it. I've spent my entire judo career learning or the time like adding new techniques, finding new ways practising developing, and so when it comes to chess, I treated just like I do anything else. I just stick one plan, and I learn all the ins and outs of that one plan, and then I d all up another plan re like out my practice like a london opening, for example, unjust irene if I were not lose, I just want to figure out how I'm gonna lose and then,

about how I'm going to win, and once I know that position is now done, then I start with another position and then once I figured out how I'm going to lose and how I'm going to win the next thing I do is I don't go to a third. I figure out the bridge between the two like at what point during my openings. Can I transition back into this opening? I say, like you, have like some basic openings and you want to see how they go wrong, how they go ride, all the different ways, and then that starts to solidify a higher level concept of that particular opening, and you start to stitch together concert concepts together, cause being able to go from one to another and then back and forth. Is part of the reasons why, like I was successful at judo, is just because everything I do at some point? It touches that spiderweb of like being able to get from one area to another. We refer to it as a toolbox, re anymore,

What was your toolbox, but if you're always grabbing the wrong tool for the right for that job, then you're, just not going to have success, actually forgot that you mention, dug a few greatest just pause volatile. And no sit in a mention, Vladimir Putin, that I ask you out his judo do much chance know much about his judo. What do you think about president of a major nation being judo black belt and I think from what I've seen pretty good at it I think it shows you know if he is he actually got it like? Let's, let's go with that premise of like he earned it right that just shows like a level of like physical persistence and mental fortitude, to be able to like. you take those beatings and just keep showing up until you overcome and can now if those meetings, as you know,

japan and russia. You get it by just like when you're young is easier, get a black boat. When you're like just go through a bunch of beatings, Ten years in europe in your teenage years, but it there's also from it, springs like a camaraderie. I there's a definitely a brotherhood and sisterhood of Judah. To where you're you're connected forever. Because of that there is for me because their childhood, connection user of leave judo in yet when using authorities, but that's always there, and the same is true rustling, so its essential thing to see him pay, respect that led by going. I with a russian national judo Jim, and I think you did obviously they they have to get thrown right, but just you can tell you probably can tell you and better when you can tell a person moves, in a way. We like. Ok, you fed like ten years of beatings, and you can tell

the way they pull the way they move yet. But I also like, in contrast to the: u s national team or the I even think there's a national team for: u s rates, it's the of, the centre right that there is some it is. The cool on there's a camaraderie like that amongst the highest level olympic caliber athletes and russia, I suppose you panel have summer kind of thing, and then you have the you can have the system of people together and then you can have a strong coaching staff, not just like a coach but a coaching staff, the nation backing that stuff, result is, like you, have some incredible level of judo emerge. Is there after you could say, with wooden talked much about Jimmy mean he was a critical part of your just like of your perseverance through all there are the yet. Go through. What did you from Jimmy what a sum

pack, though he had on your life When the mat enough, the man you know, if we had to like put it down like a very simple thing. He taught me how to win. Right, it was a necessarily like the technical side of judah like we went over. Gripping. We went over this. We adapted that, but the real strength to Jimmy was like he knows how to win and most people think if I get really good at this technique, I'll be able to throw people with it, not win That is not how the world of sports works right like. I remember one of my youtube videos. I was doing a breakdown of a match: fraud, the cuba grand prix

where I was fighting a mongolian guy he's kicking the jeremy. Not gonna lie four minutes in, like he just throwing me like left and right. He was so fast. I feel like I just couldn't get to him in the last thirty seconds he changed. He started protecting his lead. Instead of continue. The fight the way the entire match was going in his favor. He made a mental shifting when he may that mental shift a beat him cause. You know how to win the fight. He can win exchanges, we can't win the fight. The last thing you want to do is have the wind every exchange and match you I know how to kick it into six year like when the step off the gas went to focus on gripping, went to attack how often to attack.

All those things like and you've had those conversations with Jimmy like this is not like how to stop trying to win every exchange, that kind of thing yeah and instead cause. I was a brawler before I was like five Do you want I'm tellin you again and sometimes you get caught Why would I do that? I'm already winning? What about like the mental side of the game, the preparation, all those things, one of the biggest things Jimmy brought to the forefront when it came to light. The mental side was the visualization right and when I started visualizing myself winning, I started seeing more success, but once I started seeing where success

with the visualization also came self doubt because, as I'm starting to picture myself like, I would picture myself before fighting churches philly, I'm throw him with koshy grammar and I can see it and if I stand in the shoe for too long you start to like. But what if he counters, then you go war if he counters with this, I'm going to counter with that, but you already let that doubt in and then you start playing this like five step scenario, but you still come out on top. But all that doubt has like seeped into your mind. Right and a lot of people don't understand. In that that's a bad thing. You're still winning in your mind, but you're also doubting yourself in your mind, yeah once you let the light got a little dizzy when it so slivers, attractive, yeah, and so

I remember I was at the world championships. I can't remember what year it was, but I was ready like I was healthy. I was ready to go and we all thought like this is the year. Travis wins the worlds. I go out there in the first round, I'm in the shoot for like forty five minutes like the match went into golden score. Then the next match winning a golden score and the fucking next match went to goal score, then the referee came when told me, you can't way your gear than big jungles. Why can he weighs key energy that, his name on it, we're not going to let him where he has to wear a different key. So then I go fuck you I'm leaving, and I walked out there and I fought I lost. In golden corks, I did a coach and they called it a false attack, and I let you know about the fucking worlds. But when I was in the shoe, I struggled because I started allowing the like hungary

and guy that I was going to face to do things to me that I would have to play defense to an encounter as a great. But now I'm doubting my own ability, so I went to a sports psychologist and the big game changer for me was I focused more on the emotional physical response that happens in matches, rather than the actual you know quote unquote like instagram picture. That would have happened so when I was getting ready for twenty sixteen, you think about like how do you feel like standing in the shoe like what is your body feel like as your heart racing how's, your breath is your mouth dry and then you think about like ok, the rapture started the match. What happens like? How was the atmosphere like? How do you emotionally respond to these things? more so than me, trying to be a specific judo player re like all the

just gave you a penalty at minute. Thirty, like how do you feel and then you start thinking about the physical risk his and when you do that really well, you can actually get them and needles in your body will start to sweat in your heart will start to race, as if you're in it could it's not about the technique, it's more about the physical like. What does it feel? I have your fingers ripped out of a key in the first exchange. Now my and can feel that thus fuzzy and then on a salary level like I fought the olympic games so many times to the point like, it is no longer a goal. It's an anticipation, sit down to the experience of the group break that just the way, the heart, beating the air Feel to have your head smashed into a mat and driven across them out with a map, burn and getting about that and getting back up like with

bit of a burn all the cars, the actual sensations gay, actual sensation of what it takes to fight and euro madge, not with rather jeez like, but the actual sensations ass. Well ass, fast ass. They could then your bodies gonna fight, hundreds of matches without the physical, damage. Are you could probably get really far with that and not all signed just shoot? Oh, but basically anything you can simulates yet You learn how to stimulate. While you ve lived a very. a hell of a life, is there advice you can give the young people of a high school college? I think it about their career. Thinking about life, how to live their proud of, I think, The number one thing I can tell people is and how I ve lived. My life is

You ve really got a light. Forget everybody in your life right now, your mother, your father, your grandparents girlfriend your boyfriend, whoever it is and really does I'd like what is gonna make you happy right at some point in my career, the act of pushing my body to the limit made me happier than winning a grand slammer. pushing my body to the limit didn't make me happier than winning an olympic metal right. There was a there's, a balance there and I think a lot of you a struggle with living their life with their happy, and they make other people happier taken their their feelings into the considerations of what they need to do in their life, and I think if they can cut those strings sooner it all you to get over a quicker and get to a happier place sooner and

as long as you're focusing on. What's making you happy the things you do that make you happy will attract other people who do those things that will in turn, build stronger, at our relationships and they you'll also real. As the best form of yourself. inspire many others like yeah. You inspired me to our for the hell. I've done at least to do a slightly better job than otherwise would have by doing martial arts, but taken there journey and, I think, becoming a better person because it saw Travis. I have been, I continued to be I want you biggest fans. I love your whole career in the way you pursued happen, I love you and Jimmy have done of the sport of Judah as represented by yourself.

please we share we ve done, then they and I'm on the? U a dustbin! You tellin me today thanks to talk him in here, thanks for listening to this conversation with Travis Stevens, the support the spot gas. Please check out our spots in the disco, and now let me leave you so words from the poem bar apart, never interrupt your enemy. When he's making a mistake, thank you for listening and hope to see. You