The following is a conversation ryan hall, his second time in the pot guest he's one of the most innovative scholars of martial arts in the modern era, quick mention of our sponsors. Indeed, hiring website, audible, audio books expressly began and element electrolyte, drink click, the sponsor links to get disco and support this podcast. As aside note, let me say that I've gotten a chance to train with rhine recently into both discuss and Try out on the mat his ideas about grappling in fighting was struck. Me is his unapologetic drive to solve martial arts. It reminds me of the ambitious vision and effort of Google's deep mind to solve intelligence. He rides case. This isn't some out their martial arts grew talk This is a style of thinking about the game of human chess, of seeking to define the rules

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I never ever want to take myself too seriously, and people liked him dylan friends, liked him. Dylan are essential for that anyway, olympians use element, tech, people use it. I swear by this stuff: try to drink element, dot, com, slash lex, that drink l, m n, t dot, com, slash lex and now here's my conversation with rhine hall, you're known as a systems thinker in martial arts, but you also, I think, are willing to think outside the rules of the game outside of the system. When you're thinking about strategies of how to you know,

all the problem, particular problem of an opponent or the dusky jitsu, our and mixed martial arts. What's your process for doing that for figuring out that puzzle? I would say no, if I have a specific, like eight a bbc process for that sort of thing. I try to do my best to her a priest. that I think a lot of the thinking or leave me were not all the thing, but a lot of great thinking on conflict on battle on war on martial arts has been done already, not that we don't have to do They sort of background investigation or reassessing of these ideas were axioms that have come down through things like the book of five rings or the art of war or in all, eight like VON cloth was even anything like that really, but is They were trying to understand the lessons The past that I think, often times we don't take with us problems on we pay lip. Iverson like a you know, a victorious fighter, the great fighter il you know. He knows victory is there.

then he than he, then he seeks battle everyone else's looking for me, three and that we are moving on and that's why I'm a double challenge, on my left hand I think a lot of times are actions, dont reflect or stated belief structure, and I think that oftentimes, you can tell what I believe, really what my fundamental operating system is based on. My since whether I'm, where I have an operating system internally, whether I'm aware of it or not, or you certainly within fully aware of it So I guess when it comes to strategy, I I try to think about how things interact. You mentioned systems thinking and I and I try to do my best to understand how systems exist, but I think that systems have a fundamental strength and a fundamental weakness. They work how they work and that's great but their readable. So if you are aware, if I am operating on a system of which

you're you're not really read into then I I think oftentimes I can seem, like you say, shockingly effective, particularly if my system preys on certain weaknesses- ah that that maybe you are you're given to. But what happens when you've read the same books that I have I that a lot of times that makes me deeply predictable, I think about systems and judges who we know and a lot of times. People think that their due jujitsu when in reality they are doing an expression of at least say I'll use? There's the Marcella garcia system. There is de Henshaw grace current hens, racism, there's the old gracie by one. There is a degree the academy classic racy jiu jitsu, there's the art of jujitsu in in aachen, autos approach and other some cross over between a lot of these, but are often times. I think when it comes to understanding how I'm making decisions and how my opponents making decisions? I have to appreciate whether or not I am an end user

something I use my my phone as an example. I was thinking of you, the other day and as and user of my phone. I can't I have no idea what it does. You know like edward Snowden comes up and goes hey guys. You realize your phones are listening to from like really what yeah. Alright, I believe you and then, of course, that that comes out, but to what extent I have no idea of what does my phone capable of. I have no idea I can mess with the font, though I really like blue screens, not purple screens so like as an end user, I can change some of the bells and whistles that have nothing to do with the underlying source code of it all or how it functions. The same way, my car from an end user. My car, if I do this with the steering wheel, it goes if I push on the gas, it goes If I yeah, I know how to fix it when it's out of gas, I know how to fix it when it's out of Oil- and I hannah- and I know how to fix it. You know when a when a flat tire comes but short of that actually beyond that. I have nothing, so I think that often times I've been around in jitsu long enough to encounter like a new wave of of like good grappling, and it's very interesting sometimes

oh they're, running systems. They don't realize their running, like like I trained more celebrations academy for a long time. The you know, I am a big fan of more solemn student there. Encountered. A lot of the the auto style jujitsu a number of years ago been reno. A very, very you know, deep into foot lock leg attacks and what not for a long long time. I understand your system better than you do, or I may, and let's say you understand my system better than I do. That will be a huge issue. That was something that I encountered a long time ago, trying to come up and jitsu, where I was trying to utilise systems that work created by let's say, half a mendez or someone else, and I'm basically trying to do what you're doing I'm just not doing as good of a version of it. So not only am I not doing it well, but I'm entirely predictable, and I think that that can be a big issue so to come back. think of systems a lot of times now in terms of a particular like end user type of systems like an iphone

a really really fast way. For me to be able to do all sorts of things. If you were to take it from me, I couldn't recreate any of that Do you wanna, be morgiana, say unless the end user exactly as act that way way. I'm listening to you. The annals of combat westward were watching you p, but basically you know it I guess what I would. What I would come back and say is a you understand how things interact on a fundamental level and what type of games existence type of interactions exist? Then you can transcend the lot of the year. The systems it's almost like a cook verses. If I can make certain things in the kitchen I can, but I am not a chef you could give bunch of ingredients- and I could probably could not well but a couple of different things, but a master chef thing you know would be aware of the implications of oliver. things that they're doing ignore extra time in the oven less time in the oven, putting this in a flavor, space in you know what you're doing with various.

Things and also they could make. They could turn all of these ingredients into chinese food or they could try all these ingredients into italian food and they could turn all these italian food ingredients into informed on work to influence on you, but there not limited to a specific thing, because they have knowledge of how food interacts. How what it does to create taste with a discrete texture so to come back, let's take rock paper scissors rock paper scissors is built on the idea of a couple of different things are actually I'll. Tell you what can I may I may ask a question: what's your favorite dinosaur on the ST on three will go one, Two three t rex: he wrecks I'll meet soon order to man. This is going to be best friends. So it's okay. If so, what's the first question, when you say hey, let's play rock paper scissors is like as a rock paper scissor rock paper scissors shoot and, like rock paper scissors shoot like okay, because if we go rock paper scissors shoot and, like all man, I got lucky and I

imagine. I want one hundred times in a row. Yeah there'll! Be luck, it'd! Be luck! If, if I was honestly doing that, but now, let's say, for instance, I go on rock paper scissors and you go on shoot rock paper scissors shoot here comes the rock right. If you lose who's, Is it it's yours? This is built on a parody thing where they can. We be. I dont get to pick. Second, if I get to pick second, it's like being able to investigate your background before going to meet you. like all I, oh I too love the new jersey, the new jersey nets, which is a statement that No one in their right mind would ever make when I was growing up so anyway. You'd have to have first knowledge of somebody. So anyway, it's a come back. Let's europe! If, if you understand how games are structured, you can start to realise that this huge gaps in huge holes in a lot of

the the thinking behind all of it, and if you can create the illusion of choice, I'll play one more. If you don't mind, is one of my favorite ones to do this in class. All the time have you seen this before now: okay, mascot, some questions. Please sure: okay, fantastic, I'm scared does everybody wins story or so could you could you please win cause you please pick three fingers and me what they are, your thumb? Okay, your pinky, okay and you middle think. Okay, so could you please pick a two fingers your middle finger and your pinky. Okay. Could you please pick one finger I'll go with the middle finger? Woo? Okay? Could you please pick one finger and pinky okay, let's play again, can you pick one finger? Please Your middle finger, if it one finger, please your thumb, your pinky ok now picked.

Seymour fingers, please you're a middle finger. A near ring finger. Ok, could you please take one more finger them, so I the un has the illusion of choice: the illusion of choice. If I'm asking the questions, provided, I ask the right questions. There can be no correct answer. Doesnt mean that other are ultimately. If that's what you wanted, let's say you like. I thought I was guiding you to something I wanted it turns out. That was the outcome you want to elicit. Analyse. Here's nominate the wrong question. I might not get I once fell by the wayside. You dropped for people that might be just listening to this dad tat matter what treasure we took that decision tree, that railways presenting it was always ending up with a middle finger. Ironically enough, I was surprised I saw and always was surprised forthwith,

yeah. If we all everyone liked, I felt like a winner, alright, so now it now, I'm gonna, then I'll ask them different questions. If you don't mind me, can you please pick two fingers to put down your middle finger and pinky? Are it's so awkward? This is the worst finger positions. Okay, can you please wait a minute? That's I'll hold on a well. What, if you picked you other fingers to put down your thumb and pinky? Okay, my thumb or pinky. Can you please pick two fingers to put down while, whatever to you like? Okay, your middle finger and your pointing finger? Ah, okay, can you picture, to put down what is index index where I want to point out. One is only usually pointless we're to point the finger ass. I would do much more to put down please. The middle finger in the ring thing. Man is what, if you pick Why my ring finger and my index finger,

I win, even though I am asking the questions as not impossible that I arrive at a good outcome for me, but it's it's no longer. Guaranteed, I went from a situation are literally can't lose. Their brings all probability right super la probability, and the second you realize what I'm doing you'd. Never let me when because the boss truly in your court, so I guess that that's kind of what am fundamentally trying to put into play. Almost all the time it can. I ask the right set of questions can develop the ability with skills wise understanding, wise and then discipline was and then have the courage and the constitution and the end the discipline necessary the patient's necessary to ask the proper questions and wait for the proper answers and, if I can off assuming Unlike the perfect world, I went period. Ah yes, it is the commission's. Yet autonomous has the sole enough. You know serve them more mathematical discipline of game theory.

There's something called mechanism designed for game theory. Is this fear where are you model some kind of interaction between human beings? you get my grappling now. I ain't gonna model nuclear conflict between nations. That way, and you set up. Was our rules and incentives and then use mass to predict? What is the likely? come depending overtime based on the interaction given those rules citizen design is the design of games so like the design of systems that are likely to lead to a certain outcome and so well you're suggesting, is you want to create what you wanted? Discover systems whose decision tree all the possible things?

it happen feel like their choice being made. But ultimately one of the parties doesn't have. any choice in what the actual final outcome as you're, making them feel like they're playing a game too. So it's not like you, don't feel trapped, it's kind of for the best traps. I don't you don't look very threatening us on like all walk over there. I guess they wouldn't. That is, I guess, that's kind of an interesting thing. If alliance one is a lion roar, it's finished, then, when you watch like lions, hunting robin they hunt They want and what they want, a mood you back. They do stuff like that when they actually want to come and get you the pretty slinky. It's like water coverage furry water, and I guess like twenty, that in mind. It's fun! see how like for us a hobby actually and bring a guy like one of my moma coaches and the head coach at tristar, he brought this up once I'm thought is really salient point.

So let's say we have: a million person bracket was impossibly huge, like frank dukes when in the coombe at a level huge bracket, and he claimed to knock at like two hundred and fifty consecutive people in your life, that is all of hong kong. Was in that thing and everyone kept their mouths shut it anyway. I sprinkle, but I think it's a compact element from frequent. So let's say friends like there's no cheating going on no cheating going on and were flipping coins right one is going to have an unbroken string of victory through that bracket, which is pretty insane how many, how consecutive like toss this person one and then at the end of it all imagine we know aliens show up and we go hey. They want to flip a coin for the not earth that when on earth a you know gets to gets to continue it, but all I'll. Do it? I'm good at this that will be tempting as a person to to do you, like I'm a lucky guy or like. Are you sure? Maybe

maybe effectively where we can argue that fact are incredibly lucky, but basically is that an actual ability is like a park in a video game. Was that just the thing that happened? So anyway, how many times or someone you can go through an entire career, in particular in a fight sport. Well, let's see get fifteen knockouts in fifteen toss up scenarios. Happening all the time in the fighting, a toss up scenarios solid your mountain army in like him, and that's not a toss of snow Many many many many many striking showers. A lot of baton was snares or dead toss up, and someone by knock out the when five as I wrote. I lose a couple of times in a row. We go what happened. You know like what would happen. They were always flipping the coin and they went five wanna go back on track. Can you imagine that you flip uneconomic heads? Heads heads has tales what tat tales just heads again? Ah, Madame back on flipping good? Now, that's basically what's going on. I think the vast majority of the time and then get humanity's. You know tendency to see a sign in almost anything out distorts the presented

and then we build a narrative in our mind to IMF, cheap convinced ourselves. It were in some sort of drawn reality. I was in a marginal situation at best the whole, yet without having much control without having a deeper saying the system, the same story is told the stock market with many of the human, these distribute human systems. Certainly, narrative is inciting patterns without understanding actually The system is generating these patterns. So if we can see the system that incredibly valuable, but then you go well, what system is above all of the system's legacy? Baby physics? Maybe it's like a game theory explains these things would like. I guess what are the? What aspects of the system can I can put my on that. I can touch and understand, and what am I, what am I missing one? What was going on in the world all around me to continue to lean on on doing that? I don't have that you know you thought you a blind person about about the world about site and talk to someone that doesnt have her want of macaroni virus. Now known can taster smell. This is delicious nick.

Is it so anyway, you know again what what Hence, as am I missing what understanding my missing? That's prevented me from seeing the dots connect in the world all around me and I think something if we are often times least personally person have this this up a lot. I'm so knows deep, the in the trench of trying to understand what I'm doing that. I can't take a step back and realize you know that I'm in a forest not just had it headbutting a tree be doing bar, maybe both too. This should be true once, but I saw I would say when it comes to strategy trying to understand that, but then also you go ok we'll. How can that sounds cool, but how can you actually do that? and then I'd say. That's a really good question, because, if I imagine I say man, I should fight like Stephen thompson. I should fight like wonder boy is a good idea go, do that only

not thinking that the guy I would fight like reading the manga made off as I could, and you know it seems to work so anyway, ego will. What if I could develop what if I could take my time, developing skills so that when these strategies become apparent that you are, they are executable too You actually have the ability to like inner to again to be the person, the arena that be the person required, was plenty of great ideas like docking a basket most fantastic idea alive for me, unless there's a small family nearby and not the guy, but that it make it any less good of an idea. I just don't haven't developed the ability or- or I lack the ability so anyway, I think a lot of times, at least when I watch people in fighting I'll use an example where, If we're concern we're trying to win early on rather than develop skills there. I will what's the best way to fight with my current set of skills and using with the path forward is like the barbarian route like the? U put on the one ring, take the damage we need to take to hit that

and that was something I realized very early on in my emma maker was like I'm not that good at striking at that time, not world class strike now, but I'm way better. It's striking that I'm given any credit for because it helps people sleep at night. I think, but I'm serious, the euro was introduced as like this mass egypt, like master, go grab like the site him to say that, maybe I'm not that good at grappling. We haven't even seen that and but the funny thing is I'm like, just as if people almost go like rolex, like so you're really good at this, but you've got to stand like if we're equal man like I'm good at this other thing, maybe you're really good at what you do and I'm just mediocre too. That is also possible. So there's plenty define themselves as a striker that do that, just because that's for lack of other options, not just a really good striker. Like I'm a grappler, I was a grappler as a blue belt, not really so anyway. Just to come back. If what, if I'm constantly going How can I win with what I've got right now? I think often times and never take the time to develop the skills that I want to develop, and I also never take the time to develop a strategy I want to develop and that is actually been one big blessing of a fighting so unfree.

ITALY, which has been really frustrating as a result of injuries and time away, and you know some of those people being hesitant to get in the game, but it gives you so much time to to be out of the trenches and focus on developing your abilities so that now it's almost like developing money, like you mentioned the stock market that you can now put in. As you said, bitcoin was a great idea: five years ago, and I had eight box man if someone from the commission five years ago, and I had no fifty cabling gotta be sleep. I'm a bit of money that I would then set on fire leaders they just to do. It saw the dude all the injuries you ve been mining bitcoin all this time, and now you're, a rich man will not actually, for I told me I was trying to mine for bitcoin actually like in a cave, and then I found out recently that is actually mining is like a figure speech. You may not like a little thing that you do, but in my defense, english language is difficult. Eight, is it really is? Fine, tartar, where's, lucid lane. Russian is more. Is rachel English. You should learn. You should learn. Russian are happier ladys at you.

ski do world wind overview of your career. Here in Emma may leading up to this point with the injuries and the undefeated record and then what's next, we're the topic. I did my first fight in as a blue Well, I've been training for about a year and a half. I did nine, not just a tournaments and ten weekends, or a maybe eight years, tournaments and ten weekends. Prior to my first fight in April, two thousand and six, a punch in the face a whole bunch, I didn't realize, was professional fight and found that out like the day beforehand. That was great thanks, church Who's in atlantic city were another place. No one ever goes on purpose, so that wasn't great. I got into three actually three car accidents, the preceding thirty six hours before the fight I have my car totalled

I wasn't driving for any of them. That was great lsd. Thousands say to them six year than your blue. Both a year, you have been trying for a year and a half few bluebell. He didn't I mean if you haven't lived. If you haven't, got a push in the face in atlantic city. That's true, I mean so these are, I would ally, would have loved to have it happen for different reasons, but yeah. It was funny, as you know, I I remember you know getting punched in the face. A bunch trying to do inverted guard. I won one round last two rounds definitely lost the fight and I went for inverted sorry to interrupt your friend like you don't ever either for leah sure it was three three when rounds, which is not a professional fight like other idleness, professional fight light would have been any better and more time to get points, but I found don't part with yours. I remember walking back to my corner and the first time I'm like hey this guy can't hurt me and he's like yeah. My my corner was my friend Tom and then someone else and he's like yeah. I I would still encourage you to stop blocking so many punches with your face it's going to I appreciate that. I'm gonna try that anyway

Remember like I was not not allowed to up kicks on like great. I was ugly. I had no martial arts skills it really at all, but if I had anything at all, it was just. It was very, very little jujitsu, but definitely wrestling. Definitely no striking like I was basically a magnet for punches. This allows your time, those a roughneck cannot in atlantic city as we all do it wasn't. While can we fast forward you when you're? Actually, how many has a flag belt? I should have liked to execute a little bit of money that I there like hey. We europeans, like I was like stories with ryan with reinhardt. Wasn't I once I went to that, you see, I went in whatever like the traffic candidate was right there in the casino exempted, bore, walk home cannot man. This was. This has been a not great, not great evening, I'm going at this summit of when it back to be great. Fifteen minutes later they had all the money that I had from the fight was gone. I remember like walking out of the casino super pissed

Am I gotta know what I was thinking like I'm back again, we why this was not gonna make my might better. I'd start that there should be some sort of cosmic balancing, and maybe it was caught her balancing all at once, but things are done in the longer term, though the of the though the balancing I'll say I also but to compass all dead in the end. That is through time, will get us all there. Well, that was so. That was the first one and that we want to realise I'm terrible it ever me, but I like it. I should just stop this until I one day learn how to actually gravel much less learn how to fight. But I'm over this gunning dave cabotage. The reason my ears are all messed up. On the ultimate fighter and got punch in the face and knocked out by tom lawlor, who will always appreciate for doing that, but anyway, I ever tom, I appreciate some officiate dave to David. If great, there was a huge bullying used to like realm completely unmercifully, but relatively unmercifully beat the crap out of me and anyway, the ears. Look good sound appreciate that I tell people it's a tomb,

that I got an eminent if they want in our class actual lawsuit with agency. They should have sent seventy but any we're very, financially savvy. I'm good I give the impression that the day basically said don't worry man you're, never gonna be good at Mme than you going to be good at grappling either. But even if you are good at grappling which, in my opinion you will never be, you will never be good at fighting and I said dave, If I do nothing else in my life, I'm an acute training until I can make you pay for that, and now that I can make them pay for their really easily. He doesn't friendly more, but I love these days He actually won the singing bee. What an interesting dude super interesting but anyway, none of it of genuine like speech of languages suppressing I like shockingly. Jeopardy into another. Many good but still show I go to jeopardy so anyway years later met for us a hobby, I should John Danaher. I met John danaher and he put me in touch for as a hobby. I started training

I start a you know, immediately loved working with ross and learning under, for I started training at tristar, and I did my first real professional am in a fight and as someone that actually does had practised a little bit. Pyre though, and I think august, two thousand, twelve, and that was it's a guy. He was four and five at the time, so you had some experience. Good kind of like first go for me honestly, and I won that fight by te kao and then it was a little bit of time off and then I did another fight against itself, can't even imagine hamill. He was five and two at the time, but he was three and I was ambitious good good little bit of fighting experience, one that one of the first round of I were naked choke and then started to experience. Difficulty getting getting fight set at that point He- and I are you continuously introduced as like the the master grappling the submission We start with. That was my thing of our funds. It is. There was the source of the fear for people the show, because I mean that definitely wasn't much at striking. At that point you know I definitely am a lot for I'd like to think. I'm pretty

it'd hurt. Although I try not to lean on that, and I played baseball for like sixteen years so I can hit things pretty hard. Edged and able to I, I recognise pretty early on that. I had no idea how to actually hit things hard without becoming capable myself. So I think that's kind of the big thing is a lot of ongoing. We're almost were mentioning before. If you try to go and get people to early, you can hit em if they're, not that good, but you're when you get hate yourself, so you're, making your basin and making a wager you're, making a trade of your own life for the ability to hit them. When you want as it is for a lot of Sonya floyd may, whether Stephen thompson, macgregor when he's fighting really well, it's not a trade there, you're hitting them in their hitting you it's their hitting you, but it takes years and years and years and years to be able to learn how to do that. Tonally is another great example of that. You know my closest friend and partner, one of my best friends and currently now one champion one championship in in asia. The champion of the featherweight in august, nargis, lightweight featherwit,

one forty five over there now and he recently fitted Morton when in a really great fight and tom knocked about long term champion and tom, doesn't let you hit him, he doesn't let you touch him. I feel so fortunate to have met guys like stephen in time to go early. In career in golf hole, le moly, I can't even it's not even like all you'll. Let me walk over and find you it's like fighting a ghost that periodically shows up with a hammer and smokey in that melon and then appears in the ether again so the way the fighting games. Thinking. How can I attack without being heads every every strategy? Every idea you have about what you're going to do has to do with the like that in a minute. I think the reverse. absolutely I mean that's what all good fighting is a poor fighting if they're gonna throw the course history most generals, whether they saw a red or in other words, that they did battles by attrition You know it's like a man. I've got a hundred and fifty guys you ve got fifty like you have sixty my guys die killing your fifty, like that's great for me, but necessary for the sixty guys. They died.

Hope. It's worth it so when you realise that not only you're, not just colleague Brian and your fill jackson to you, gotta do everything you know if you ve got it across the beach enormities, so be it, but that better be. He should have we measure. We thought this through in this ok, there's no way we can like a walk around the sign her because often times there there is, and I think, a lot of times there's a lot of incentives in professional fighting to four people to do that, and we come up with all sorts of well, I'm trying to be exciting area is that what you came to the executive to win, and I think that anyone that that's really if successful came there when and if it ends up being exciting. Well, that's fantastic! I hope that people enjoy watching something and that's great, but that's a qualitative. Ass man anyway, you know what you want. Also be able to live the rest of your life. I think it's easy. in Allah use magic taylor, I'm a big boxing fan mail detail is excellent fighter. Came this close to a world title and was stopped with like he was in a fight that he was winning with seconds remaining literally seconds remaining and he probably could have just let it go

would have been world champion and it was brutal it if you ever watch legendary nights like h, b, o boxing show it's it's great, but tarp rigging is actually heartbreaking and also like the beating that he absorbed in that fight. Changed him for the rest of his life and also you don't think he'd never been hit before, but it was one of those we go. It's it's all funding games until you can't remember your name and aged forty four years old, and I come here: what does it? What had patents saying? Nobody, nobody wins the war by dying for his country, you make the other poor bastard die for his and I think that that's kind of what were shooting for- and you know the law innovation of absorbing damaging that not being a big deal like you hear that all the time so insulting take shots that would put a lesser fighter down. What does that mean so make the straight. Your ability to absorb damage is a part of you. I mean that don't around. That is an attribute it's nice to have, if you, if you need it, but his twenty people,

actually have really poorest defence that are just very, very difficult to hurt for whatever reason at the fascinating fighters- perspective. On the thing I mean the the the story that is spiralling, and I know it goes against the artistry of fighting. Is You have taken the damage to still rise up and be able to defeat upon its, but that that that's the flip side of a basically you failing to defend you shall probably rick. I agree, but let's say, for I think, it's time: that's a triumph of humanity that you're trying to me using it to witness such a thing, is unbelievable, but she still go. This is that there is a call just here. It's like I. I have been fortunate enough to spend some time working with with the military and I've been like around and read. Medal of honor citations are unbelievable. Like you read the story near it, it's it a floor, but it's lower cost

We do have a pain that caused all along and all most of the time it with the cost. Was everything and then sometimes you go. Hey get the value here. It's worth everything it's like. I defend your family defend your country under certain circumstances that points extension of your family. You like hey. This is worth it to care. julie, throw your life away or three hovel is foolish. There's nothing! There's nothing great about that and end like you said it still an amazing thing to see, but by its also made him to see you know, hey damages the flame, whether it's the artist tree of life not being here, and I wonder if maybe that's why people resonate before it is mine, It's obviously muhammad ali was such a time and place a great man for so many different reasons, although it was funny to remember like there were times when he wasn't very popular. We love them now because of time of context, a time to move away from some of the nonsense he had to deal with, but we got to see struggle, and also he had unbelievable sacrifice both in and out of the ring. You know that that we all got to witness

we ve never really seen. Floyd struggle like that and granted. Obviously, flood isn't like a civil rights figure like mama Lee was is different times from place, needs a different man, but basically a. I wonder. If part of the thing made us at made over one think of Mohammed Ali is the greatest, in addition, of course, the unbelievable things he did out in the world, and this but he made we saw him struggle in the ring. It's it's almost its humanizing. You know it's it's weird. When people the person people respect be but again, it's we saw gnp loose and gsp came back stronger to be, this amazing, but I wonder I wonder how people feel about him. Long term, like they won't think of him, is amazing and great and he's been a respectable person and champion butter. The time we haven't we haven't had for, if that makes sense, and also the coupled with the alley had a way of being poetic about serve

the way he was in the rings are to be able to explain the artist either he amused, there's a joke and have been playful, but really he was able to describe the for, like a butterfly thing I could be like is able to actually talk about his strategy without without crossing our line into the flame may, whether one year just talking what money in and talking shit just drew back caught him. A greater when he's not talking shit is pretty good at like talking about the art of the marshal like there's no guy, and I wish could be, did the same thing. She often like this. I hear brothers does a few there's a culture like being poetic about like being scholars and all so are bards or whatever the poets of the game. and could be, was more like just simple and he left his actions speak, which is

his great to voting in some way. Here is great, but it's nice. When you can tell stories as now yeah that that, that's probably while he was the great catch me up to you, went three fights I think undefeated be japan. You talk about last time. You definitely be japan, as I mean as an incredible accomplishment, Were you a lot of really tough guys what was your last fight in catch me up with the war. people kept more and more and more were unwilling to fight you yeah, that's been that's, was why was out for two years, following the gray maynard fight between I find grey and bj and into the grey, if I was actually really proud of, because grace very tough is very big. Very strong experienced, I had only five fights of the time

and I didn't have a lot of skills I dont get to fight gray with what I have today. I had to fight gray with what I had in december twenty sixteen and that I it really took a lot of discipline, a lot of focus, a lot of challenges. You know to stay the course to do. I need doing fine to win in ultimately dominant fashion, just not in the dominating Obvious sense that you see when someone runs across and does that somebody button that way: on the list. For me at that time you know so that was that was an interesting one with the time away. Again was very frustrating that was incredibly difficult for you for that amateur that fight their workers. I may I be above in the final, the ultimate fighter in autumn is another guy. This tough lotteries. Variance and gets gets. You know he is a funny guy he said some things on the internet, so he gets a lot of heat for that. But you know he just knocked out three of my teammates. I'm like he put a couple of people in a pretty rough shape

that so he was doing well, and I was a tough fight again. If I got to go back and fight that fight now, it would be not competitive at all. I mean it wasn't competitive at that time, but a very it was complete phase. It wasn't close was competitive. So you are improving and growing fast yeah and it was nice to have time away. I wish I'd had more time in the ring, but again I'd only been doing, mme for three years at that time. So the improvement from doing what the baker in mining was over overriding the ring rust. I think so. I don't really believe in ring rust. If I'm honest, you know, I can understand why you notes people could feel a certain way, but if anything, it's almost like he just kind of forget what competitions like and you realize, like now. You feel butterflies. And then you go. Oh, my god. This difference is not as neutral body getting ready to perform. It's okay, it's normal How do you not have ring rest? I think a charter on what sort of practice warming, no matter what you know like with it and carry opium over a good bit. Like anything, you name it talking from people like you embrace. The butterflies ah

yeah, it's almost like a long while ass part of staring at the wall and let her who decided to submit a fight then cut minute. Eight ye give me. I mean, of course, of her the phrase like you can never walk in the same river twice, because even if you're this, even if the rivers, the same you're different man, that's I think really important thing to understand at various points might to career of. Oh man. How should I feel I remember when I used to do well in competition. I would feel I would think these thoughts, listen to this song. Think think about this out. feel a certain way and then, if you don't feel that way, I would start to become stressed because I was self inflicted vs going. You'll feel how you feel your job is to show up with what you have. They do your absolute best thing. I will never quit. I can be sure of that. Instead, I can't be beat, I mean I can definitely beat. I could have lost every single fight that I've ever had, but I control, my effort and control attitude, and that I will you or I will do my very best- I'm a game plan in the events, are working for. I have to put my hands what walk dead forward

me too, it somebody. You know. We hope that that's not where it goes, but you know you like it that humanizing moment we are shooting for like to state the inner like the inner, didn't you soccer. As the outer and nearly all you have left his will, and you hope it doesn't happen. But if it does you'll be there, but I guess to combat, like the extra periods of time in between fights think was a valuable because it was. It was deeply challenging. It was incredibly of is sauce some possible This man is, I got didn't. Wanna is just waiting, oh my god. What is their politics involved as it is, Sometimes you know like I, I you know it's. Every single time you step into the ring, nothing's guaranteed its you'd be hurt. You ve heard somebody you did when you can lose you know as throwing away just like you said, throng away, you're, healthier life cheaply makes no sense for anyone and having demonstrating some degree of of of temperance does not count

they either. I'm! U! But again, if you wait too long have nothing. So I guess like I was trying at end always being I'm always open a fighting. The absolute best people possible another turning down fights ever you know some random geronium decides that he wants to fight in the doorway fond of the just fight randoms. I would you started standard them on that will it danny's and start yelling and I'm sure would have you know some people would be willing to indulge me, but you know. You want to fight minos meaningful upon his challenging upon his mind, and I know how and where they are, and some right. I city in idea the danny, but you will have denny's behind you. I did, and you know isn't about it'd be honest if there were, if I stood up after that fight on loan, if I was in great shape to expect to win and the other fights that evening, but I could've could've tried it. I'm sure there were some takers in the crowd, particularly after they watched me fight their legal fight that guy so august. When was the last fight

that was our darren elkins. That was six months or seven months after the bj fight, which is great cause. It's you know, I love, maybe five, really tough, very tough opponent, very tough guy super tough dude, and that was in July, twenty nineteen and then right when I was about to fight a jury to fight reg, lily after that yeah trying to end their you're trying to find a fight, yeah cry, but got ricardo lama. So no one else, none of the year. I was right in this opt for teen at that point, and then I want fight. We were sure I want to find an opponent them ricardo lamas, a great you know, former title challenger, you know, may you know really great history and I'm a recently retired, but we were supposed to fight in. I think, may march marsh may of about twenty twenty and then krona virus happened, and so that script the whole show you know: training we'll just scrambling to try to keep the gym alive and take your and our five or six four five, six, eight five autonomy, I use the that I know they're. My responsibility I have to their livelihood is, is in my hands and it's ah the beer.

Possible admitted to not take that serious, they saw anywhere. We were able to navigate that time and then, we were rescheduled lamas fight in that was in august of life last year and I got a a medical like flag. Like all hey you like you, you have a medical condition that we need to look into you When I got home from the fight amis move immediately was concerned because, of course, any serious medical condition you were not meant. Well. I guess I would like to look at that it turns out. It was a giant false positive and do you know we find doubt. You know all of five weeks later and you go. You have a kid me as frustrating and then we're still waiting for our fight waiting for a fight waiting for a fight waiting for a fight people, one sign up asked for a number of different opponents, basic set him willing to fight anybody. That's that's tough and moving forward. I finally got you know a great opponent in Danny gay, for I guess it would have been this sir,

large and then I was training in january work on organs and stuff. I was out training with without raymond Daniels in in california, raymond amazing unbelievable he'll keep passion, karate, saki posture, fantastic, martial arts, great teacher, great trading partner and good friend, or you know just really bad luck. You know kind of a fall in the middle of in the middle of training, and I tore my hip flexor halfway off of my femur, so yeah that wasn't great and you go like man right at the time where you, like all men, are finally moving forward. You know having the opportunity to fight dans really tough guy. You know you have to fight well, if you want to have a good chance to do well in them. If you don't fight well, as can be a rough night and worked as executive sign up for this VJ, this agreement with the elkins that was grey and then the universe goes hey man, I here, but there is also this so anyway. Why should she went up and then hopefully I wish my figure may- I think, are made this year may of this year, yeah. So it's, but it's been up, it's been about five weeks. This andrey you be able to,

What do you think a year? I think I'll be ok by then like. I don't need a big camp at this point of had years of camp. Ah, I'm not gonna curtail my drinking or anything like that. Obviously life is meant to be lived, and so it's a eunuch guys. I've come in good shape. I always moas training. I'm trying to do my best to train around the injury that, to the extent that I can right now without you know, hurting myself long term. So is there a particular opponents here in about yeah anybody? Anybody forward? You know what I mean I tried to. I asked I asked the second that I got hurt. I sent a message dan enlisted him in, like a dj, wanted you to be the first person to know. I you know I just was pre reasonably injured degree. We've gotten an mri doctor says like hey man you're out, and you need to take like three weeks off off. Don't do anything or you're going to immediately going to tear at the hallway, and this can be surgery and then it's going to an additional like eight weeks on top of that to start to rehab it through pity

in any way, yeah sure I let them know hey. If you can push this thing back, I would love to keep on the car I'd love to keep the fight. You know it's like a respectful of his opponent and also it's been brutal. Get me one sign on so, if your into it and I'm still their unfortunate, he turn that down I understand he had other things going on. His wife are expecting a child come up, so he. it's a he needed to fight and anyway I guess what will soon coming forward? Zero, somebody's super, tough and the featherweight? vision that on you, you seem to like enjoy the difficult puzzles. There's somebody especially difficult that you would like to fight, I would like to fight. I know that all need to win at least one fight before this, and I look forward to coming back in giving my best effort to do that. I want to fight to be megabits. five, I want to fight yeah really is I want to fight greens Omby?

and a the complicated gave me yeah. That would be a I would. I would love to see that five thousand ass any fight that without would be fun. You would be very challenging all those guys. So I and solid forty just stand healthy to the extent that we and coming back and I'm in a fight multiple times each year, hell or high water. How? Yes, oh by the way, a complete the guy, because you were talking about systems and a decision, trees and delusion of choice made me think a same harris and I forgot to mention it so he about freewill quite a bit, and that there is an illusion of free will certainly going lincoln the yeah, maybe the universe constructed that little game where it makes us feel like equal. the choices, but really really dont were really always ending. The upper middle finger tat will be hilarious. That's it that's what you see. Before you die giant little thing I think I'll fuck I knew it

I do you think you think there's a few. Well, like we feel like we're. Making choices, see you're thinking again we're talking about. Ok, here's a system of martial arts that's our hands are gracia, there's different schools and whatever and then you're thinking. Okay, how can I think outside these systems, but then there's also system, that's our human society and we feel like there's an actual choice being made by us. Individuals Do you think that choice is real or is it just an illusion? A lie. Okay, that's a really good question. I'm not necessarily equipped to answer this, but I'll do my best. Okay, I guess I would say to start with, she'll be interesting. If it wasn't real, if the choice wasn't real for ass, interesting if Israel first of I would start with a facilitated police forces, not facilitate a police almost like. I think the world's out to get me true, not true what next probably not a believe, even if you

if imagine you believe, there's no freewill our does that justify every single impulse that you're going to give in to Does the belief in free will does the belief in my ability to work hard to focus to be disciplined to improve my position from my situation, where it's true or not. Although I think that at least many of us would argue, that least whether whether there is some sort of internal driver that allows for that year, like you we live in a material world. Your actions to affect the world. I can choose the picked up or up or not, and anyway I would say a belief only in the idea of picking facilitated police, you know and going hey, I will adjust This belief system is right or wrong on a cosmic level on nowhere near smart enough to understand. But I can say me deciding that illicit when someone a walk over to have a conversation with someone hotel lobby and they ve never met them I go over, and I start with this

interesting and walk over their verse. in my head and, like mrs ass, all want more about that very different conversations. I could be right that this person's, not very polite or is- or she thinks negatively of me right from go, but I think that that's probably not a facility to believe people talk about now, I'm. How is that going to help me he navigate the conversation to a positive conclusion. Then I think about that for- and you know, let's say fighting it's a good example like confidence. Peep plenty of people believe plenty of things that aren't real myself included. I'm sure all the time and anyway, Believing that you can do something like hey, I think I can win doesn't guarantee a positive outcome, but I would say it most of us would probably ice I must also remind argue that it helps I knew and glory of receiving, what's depression of, if not a negative, on facilitate a belief that it is not always that often times is not reflected by reality.

You projected onto reality and its understandable if it makes you feel like how man this is gonna work out. I don't think the prospects are going well and then, if you feel like you can't get out of the loop that seems rough, and I see a lot of things out in society right now. We you go whether whether you agree or disagree with various positions on things ago is done to facilitate a believe, even if that is true, which is arguable, be anything. So what next answer what words this end, one one is the positive. What's that be ending here and think there's no happy and I'm okay. So it's now what's so? What do we do and I guess I was accused of facilitating belief and in your intuition, believing that free was real, as is more productive for success. Life absolutely because otherwise, how am I not. how am I first of? How can I? How can society function of it's? Not real, so

how can I blame you or anyone else or hold anyone responsible for anything if free will isn't real one, not as exactly the point of you, but at the surface level, what you're saying is true but have. If we truly internalize that freeway was an illusion, will start to figure out something that that transforms the way we see society. For example, we are very individual centric. So. I believe in a free will is real, puts a lot of us possibility and blame on people when they do something bad? Maybe if we truly internalize that free was an illusion. We start to think about the system of humans together as long as this mechanism for progress, as opposed to where individual people are responsible, Their actions are good or bad. They remove the valley.

you, the weight we assign to the accomplishments or the other violence, the negative stuff done by the It was a more look at the progress of society. I dunno what that looks like, but it's almost like, as opposed to focusing on. Individual acts of an ant colony. Looking at the entirety of the ant colony that I throw that away makes perfect sense. I would say that this a reasonable thing to suggest it's, a seismic shift right and it's hard to say whether that would be you know better or worse, I guess I'll use. This is a ss a convenient one for me So I'm remember the last time we spoke. I brought up. You know one of the most reviled evil characters in certainly recent history, product humanist reappeared, Adolf hitler. Well, Big fan of making people live in the world that they want to believe in wireless freewill doesn't exist, and it's just, about how things move forward. When are we going to be high fiving this guy or what like? This is because I remembered what I said, and you know that actually brings me to something else. We discussed you know yeah

for people who know no ryan brought up or I brought up there's literally a giant about hitler. My so been obsessed with the hitler world war. Two and Stalin recently afford recently man become a meme gerardo, unlike dim, tee in a mirror something more a cat in they had something out enough by weight. You brought up hitler's an example of something particularly the sum for us after disgust for having and the excellent eloquent and the the full of intent did he ever made journalists clipped out something you ve said about that bought hitler, and said tat I yoda headlines, arbour, the word, the most ridiculous possible implemented. basically in their wits intentionally, misrepresent unintentionally, misunderstanding what I'm saying then it's like. I get that they're stupid when I'm stupid too. So I know what that's like

so I don't have a lot of stupid yeah, exactly it's it's and it yeah exactly. I don't I don't. I can't give a pass on that, but basically intentionally misunderstanding what's going on, but what I find funny is that k we gotta be careful what we believe and again back. Cancel culture thing, and we discussed last time as well, where What I would like to apologise may know actually something about cancer culture that we ve been seeing things culturally like I will be damned if I apollo As for anything that I don't need to apologize for, because I was intentionally misunderstood in that instance now you could say that I don't know that. I'm not a historic. the scholar, which I would agree immediately and also that I'm that I often times eloquently during our securely phrase, names which all agree that what has gone but ultimately you know going hey, I want to make you believe, live in the world that you that you're suggesting also exist, ok there. There's no free will is everything how far of a step back are we willing to take comically before we start going hey? This is good because we're exe

in sing a social. You know a reckoning in our country at the moment you not for good and ran for other. Probably I guess and basically butt head without right, so that that's probably not something would fly and am I think there was a fair thing assisting in my life I from individual perspective, but if you zoom out and think it in know, appreciate society, as you know, just like an ant colony as a beautifully complex system like we can have from from the individual prot a perspective. We value progress, especially progress of the individual, but in whole progress societies. But you, accept that this is just a complex system is not necessarily headed. Then you anywhere that this is almost like. That river is just following. I think that removes the burden of I was striving of always trying always like the struggle and so on. So it's possible that if we have no control, you can

arrived, some kind of others and state. Does that sound, Human though this does that's that goes against. I think our current the human condition as we experience it, but we ve communicated that each other like so we ve taught. through the social forces, thought each other that our lives matter and so on. Maybe We convince ourselves. There were just sort of like all things in a stream and I mean none of it matters. There might be some kind of enjoyment to be discovered through that process. I don't listen and I'm a capitalist, rah rah alike, but I guess If you bring up a really important point, I guess almost anything like capitalism. I I only get to experience it as I, as I sit here now and I get to live. I was raised. United states have traveled around the world. A little bit have had the good fortune of meeting many people from many different places, and

I am an end user of capitalism. I don't really know how it got here, whether it was. I wasn't there at the start of this idea. I wasn't therefore hey. How do we come up with this idea? How did we arrive and I'm nowhere near well read enough to to understand any of the really even second hand, and I guess recognising that communism, marxism, socialism, anarchism anything- is these rolled and perspectives that all have, I guess, various strengths and weaknesses. But I guess one thing: I'm always I guess I would say the burden, it was to me that if you want to make a change, the burden of proof is is on the person imply, That, then, is to be a change in and doesn't mean that that there's nothing there, but it's like if you want to create a small shift, the ripple, that's fine, but a seismic ripping shift in how we exist or how we expect the world's human beings you mentioned fighting? Why watching someone undergo of take abuse on a level in the ring, that's just shocking and then triumph in spite of it is like a gets. You like this

is unbelievable. This is part of the magic of combat sports. Now is part of the magic. The other side of the magic doesn't get talked about, sometimes that they that the trajectory of that in visuals life later on. This is not always great or there's little faced as a cost for that, but you know I with if this they remember you removing the struggle I dont. Personally, the struggle is what makes life is what may life life, and also, I guess something for us has brought me on a number of occasions is as yet in it since made its basically a Humans only understand things through relative calm Harrison. I only understand you heat because cold. I only under its. I guess like it's. I talking to someone, that's never experienced any sort of hardship and then their their latte. Isn't and then they they pitch of fit Someone that's gone through a great deal of challenge struggle. You know in their life they tend to have

little bit more of an even perspective and any way, and of course, even as a relative thing, and what I proceed to be even may not be eaten, may be on particularly softer or something in the other direction without realizing. Secondly, understand what I can understand, but the idea that that we want to fundamentally alter ourselves as a species and, as people seems a incredibly incorrect audibly high bar to prove, and also like an incredibly dangerous idea, because it always comes back to who's gonna be responsible for this. Who gets to do the choosing what's a good idea was not a good idea and I guess that actually bring some kind of two air so living in recently and in discussions with friends. I feel like this. Only two types of people that I either I encounter at this point. people with a more or less libertarian till so there thinking and people without it and when I say libertarian, I don't mean that in a political party sensor or even the the malicious and basic worm like hey you, do you buddy? It's not like it's. What you're up to is not my concern,

versus what you're up to is my concern and I'm, I guess I've always watched vienna various points in history, people on this side of people in that sector, or more or less the egg. You know, I guess problematic. I guess you could say when on the internet sense You know more of it more of an issue, but it is. The world is always full of people that want to tell you what you, to be doing as opposed to more or less do no harm, and I guess that's one of the ones any time on trying to tell other people what to do. I, let us not from right bizarre to me how many people are so confident that their side, or their position is the one that's not only right for them, but right enough that they can enforce it on others, and that just seems incredibly dangerous to me, and I guess that comes back to even sam's point about how we want to see if the under trying to spread the idea that freewill doesn't exist. Mustang is down.

Imaging, but if very well maybe, and plenty of other things can be as well. I'm not you know it goes way over my head as to you know the implications of all of these, and I guess all of us are in evangelist for something, but I I guess it's weird that we've gotten this far: as a species, and now we want to take like sharp, sharp turns what we ve been taken, a bunch of shocked. I saw history yeah. This is this. What you know? That's that's the way ahead. ok, humans, love power and one way to attain powers to say thing that you guys are doing is wrong and I have the right thing: I'm gonna build up a giant called of people and I'm going overthrow, and indirectly. What that results in me is beginning power and that's how yet the big revolutions in human history, saying done with the thing that the powerful are currently doing. overthrow. That's that's her I will day politics is happening. Now is people that didn't have power before are looking to gain power and there

also you know, that's where jordan, peters and criticise identity? Politics is people with the right with good intentions, as you say, ah, in seeking power allow power, corrupt them, as power always does, and so they lose track of like the the devil's at their fighting. By becoming the same kind of devils that they're the same kind of evil that are fighting and so that not just the progress of human history, but hopefully, as these power greedy people keep Attaining power with the with the progressive mindset, overtime, these get better and better as they can do, is they happen. duration, a generation a lot of a lot of unfair happens. A lot of hypocrisy happens a lot of for trampled along the way by Meanwhile, by overtime like lesson

airlines like human, like civilization, teammates, lessons and, in part learned the lessons of history. and it gets better and better over time, even though, in the short term, there's people acting not their best selves, and you know the that seems to be the progress of human history the idea of internalizing with free, will not being real and you you made me realize that ultimately leads to a kind of arm. it you like a nihilistic direction of the ice? Is it was both nihilistic or if you want to make it a political system that is more like communists type of a system where, like these, if the value of the individuals completely produced removed or another perspective is like the freedom of an individual is not to be valued, are protected, and so, for my ask our current perspective, the systems that seem to work, the united states works pre downward.

Despite all the different criticisms, it seems like freedom of the individual in all its forms seems to be fundamental to the success of the united states, and so we should its the hell you put. It is like doesnt matter where the free will is a recent, an illusion, the belief that its real protection individual from the group Just fundamentally, crib me from wrong. That always seems like the big issue of history hated more maiden, there is a view deal with. It strikes yeah? And you want to be yourself- you want to be different. You wanna have a different religion. You want to be a different skin color. You wanted this all the bad tribal things happen: when there's more of me than you are currently wrong, yeah absolutely Then that's always the phenomenal power unbalanced. Alright. What the interesting thing about libertarian thinking! I guess I

those words. You remember that there are charged and altogether on your own, I mean at scale up, but I mean more like on a philosophical underpinning really got. Basically, you feel free to believe I'm on a fool than amendment plenty. People do I'm sure but as long as you don't, we chase me now, the hall and hit me in the back of the head with a textbook. What's the big deal, so the libertarian viewpoint, which are probably espousing? That's I'm very much like Freedom of the individual is very valuable and like leave others fuck alone, unless they're trying to hurt you the thing is, you also have to, I believe, put in the work of empathy of understanding what others, how would leave people, the fuck alone, means to others, but isn't that an interesting thing, if I believe in freedom of the individual- and I take that, like all of these, like you said you take them pastors their first? Quite why quest

Ask why why why why or how? How how how many times should that not extend to respect for you, respect for your position, respect for your individual lived experience which could be grossly different than mine yeah. This is the problem was saying I'm an individual, I'm not going to bother you. You don't bother me, that's just like that's not actionable because to be to me, action? We have to think the. Why why why why you have to do the steps beyond right? You think what is it You mean that means understanding how when my very existence like hurts others who, because you ve done it and that, like I'm, not united sitting alone in a room here, are you using like public transit using the police force you using fire fighters using the like you're using a lot of resources are publicly shared and some of those resources are are unfairly distributed.

like we ve agreed that we're going to pay taxes and those taxes then go towards building some kind of infrastructure. That's already towards social that she, real you're you're, not a real sort of. I talk to my malice anarchists rate, saying that basically fall. Just leave me the fuck alone and going to collaborate whatever the hell? I want we're, not the that's. Not they make society as it stands. Only. We ve agreed that there's going to be certain social institutions and we pay into this and as some of the sun discussions about race and all those kinds of things is about those institutions being institution an unfair race or gender, all those kinds of things? Listen. I have a bunch of criticisms of the way their conversation carries itself out, but the thing is was valuables to actually listen.

Empathize and thus not open, often talked about with them leaving the fuck allow mindset, because your arm it doesnt have. It does know that little component, which I think could be fundamental to the function of a society which is exe, Sure like this there, what is it, though bhamo even build? It are you, and build it alone or wherever one. However, that goes, but basically we wouldn't been. We won't be able to accomplish anything as individuals without the help of others and to be able to then start the thing. Ok. So what is What a what is my duty, what is my responsibility to other human beings to be respectful to be loving to to help them as part of this function? sadly, that starts there s actually a lot of work to start to think about their shore. Then afterwards, think. Ok right. What's his life, I like as a business

June covered with that like and then his does employs that run. The Jim was that, like was that stress like made about the fighting in the injuring saw was thou like that empathy takes a lotta like compute cycles. and also on energy rent, but I have to go through that computation. If I want to be, An individual, that's like doesn't hurt you if I may, I guess like to come. Muhammad ali. One of the things he said his service to others is the rent is the rent that you pay for your email, as these is the price you pay for your rent here on earth yeah, and now one of the things that I think that a sea as a result of the inner and all the time is people talking about global giant problems. Social problems that are society wide that are massive, a truly massive and frankly, beyond the beyond the power of any of us there certainly on an individual level. So I have you not discuss things

friends, like my father's, an environmental attorney like a unit, has been for a long time and has been engineer for long time, and you know it. So I am not that barely know anything but I'm read a little bit of a various things, but climate change- oh my god, I'm so concerned about climate change. But what am I supposed to work ok, I'll see what I can do is I can not litter. I can try to conservative Where I can, I can do whatever I want. What can I personally do about some giant social problem? That is that I didn't start, and I does out of my control, I'm like well. I can be, decent to the people around me I can mention. I can demonstrate empathy and I can demonstrate consideration for the people in my circle and to the extent that I can the people asano my circle but yelling at the trees over things, that over problems that are borderline, cost like doesnt seem very productive. It just makes me feel like I'm cool and important, because I'm talking about something will hundreds of years from now the water will rise. Maybe we'll meet you want. I can add its complete. Madam. I know nothing but focusing on the problem.

but we can actually solve. It comes back to the same thing. I want to win a fight. I would love to want to fight. I can't control. What I can do is I can control each individual step that has taken on the ring and try to make the next correct move. I can't look not if it gets peoples you know they they get all excited. You know I'm trying to keep my language in check, but they get all excited thinking about a you know, problems that are like superman couldn't solve these problems like you could be that powerful and you can't make all of the bad things go away but you can absolutely change yourself and I think a lot of the lessons that you're not like the good life since from religion. That happened the good lessons from the great men and women throughout history that we in that we are inspired by that talk about in starting with within, and you know again treating the people around you decently and feeding the paramount decently doesn't even necessarily mean the golden rule do unto others as you would like them to do to you. I go well, maybe what I would like in with this person would like aren't the same thing. Will how am I gonna get to the bottom of that cause? I could be attempting to be decent this person and by my stand

and being decent, but maybe I'm wrong. Maybe I'm missing the mark by as well. I can't possibly if I just interacted with you like it's excellent talking about some nonsense. Micro, aggression. Look at the street. I've never met you, for you never met me before and you're in interpreting. Some minor comment that that I've made in the charitable way possible unless saying that you couldn't be annoyed, but your expectation for that level of consideration is the you're gonna be disappointed a now. If If we're someone, that's in your life on a consistent basis, no care regional appreciate, which or what you're doing here, do you realize that this It's how I am the som, perceive any go: hey man, I'm so sorry, of course, I would huge abs se, but I guess trying to recognize that you know I guess my job is to treat others with dignity in general. That level at the level of specificity that that that that requires increases get closer to you, then I have a person. I have a very fine amount of resources. Financially.

Intellectually, emotionally physically, if I chuck you point yours you're a one percent of it, never single different direction. What Am I doing it's like when people that go on. I cared deeply about tibet and like why aren't you over there go build a house houseman get on a plane, go build a house Oh you dont want to do that, so really what you want to those posts on facebook and and and accept high five for how much of a good guy your I got. An idea don't help. Somebody in your neighborhood go beat go play with go play with some kids go, be a friend to someone that doesn't have a friend read a book. Try to educate your. and so I guessed it to come back. It's all of these problems are solved ball on a grand scale, but it's almost like a bite I to address them in our personal lives, we do better, but rather than a erin of the grievances on a on a consistent basis. Not that that, isn't you know sometimes s, sorry valuable, but it s area: grievances, you'll hale. How weeks we sort this out. What's the next step and I guess again, when we're trying to address it on a job

at social level, just seems a manageable to me, even if you have the best of intentions, yeah but nevertheless this that there is a lot you can do for them. Now works mean I enjoy tweeting and consuming twitter is just I buy the exact same principle. He just said, which is a free will and discussion which is like. I approve in a way that I won't get stuck in the sloop, there's counterproductive. I tried to do things that are productive. And I get it just like you said, that's a guy like what kind of things can I do in this world, whether it has tweeting or building things, does a low effort? eating or actually building businesses are building ideas out as high effort, What can I do that will actually solve problems than does that's where approach it

I do wonder if, as possible to at scale, encourage each other to approach I social media and communication with all humans. In that way, I don't know how do you have that we done. I guess I to improve the improve the quality of discourse maybe like earlier than, like you said the empathy or that the decency of discourse. I think people should be in the incense was encouraged. To do that. I think most of woods we see happening on twitter and facebook, and so on has to do with very small but very powerful the implementation details and it goes down to like what is the source of the dopamine rush, the like button, the sharing mechanisms, just even small tweaks in those conflicts, alot really I believe so. It's like a a lot of the stuff we see now is the result of just initial implementation of these systems. There we anticipate so

the modernization comes from engagement and the tools we have as clicking light and sharing. It was not always obvious. It was not from the beginning. It was an obvious while twitter and facebook grew that there's a big dopamine. fresh from getting more followers and likes and shares, so we ve gone addicted to this feeling how many people comedy come. Many people are saying like a clicking like and so on, that's that doping me right. So we want to say things will get the most lakes and like on mass in society and then the other thing that was expected is the controversial. The divisive we'll get the most likes. So we, it had to do with the initial mechanisms of likes and shares, whereas melting thing in an outcome that was unpredictable, which is huge, Martha division, irrespective of vike and yet the basics of human connection that we ve. Actually, all common dungeon

societies, valuable at the visual level were saying but on mass. What results is like you throw all that out and it's all just divisive at scale discourse. I think it could be fixed by incentivize in personal growth, like incentivize in you to challenge yourself to growth. Individual and, most importantly, to be happy at the end of the day. So I feed like incentivize, you feeling good has in a way this long, lasting long term. I think what makes people actually feel good is being cut and others long term in, the short term, would feels good is getting a lot of lakes, and I think those are just different incentives that, if implemented correctly, you can just build social networks that will do much better. So do you think,

comes from a structural perspective. I guess at what point did you mention? Like you mentioned, free will and also you mentioned. You know feeling good like in again working hard. You know doom ii. I know that you have a, I guess. I was a race or knows other than did the goggins Leah s for by forty four by former forty challenge, where you, aren't four miles every four hours for today's. That's all it's the it's a bunch of is its a the challenge of it. Isn't just the running. The writing is very tough, but it's mostly the sleep deprivation rises. You just training every four, but it's a struggle right in that room, but the struggle gives me and ultimately I guess so. How can we ignore mention, like you said, adjusting things unlike air anxiously? programming level, almost based programming level, so that the interfaces differ for the user at what point Does the user have a responsibility to you as a man or a woman or a person to just behave more. instantly. How can we, I guess, utilise? What can we do? It seemed like

when our societies so grossly missing, like a martin luther king right now like the great inspiring carriages throughout a mirror, in history their world history. Where are the great leaders? I gladly literally as part of a guy. That's definitely were the great leaders, the very question: that's that's more of a question of our political systems. Why they're not pushing forward the great leaders, but this also just the ok, there's some basic engineer. Shit, which is when you and I when new ryan and I are in a room alone and we're talking even if we're strangers, the incentives are for us to get along, like just one word, together in person. That's where I'm saying I'm not even saying some kind of, but when you put when you remove that when we remove that the the the implementation of all of the of social networks as they stand right now in the digital space, a very different set of incentives, it's more fun to destroy

others to be shaped, others, and that is because this Lou endless loop I like your saying that ought to be destructive and not productive, and I think it has to do with just the interfaces of making. It feels good to be nice to others. Because currently it doesn't feel nearly ass good too, to be two others on the internet and its It doesn't feel nearly as bad as it doesn't real life to be shit. Each other's an internet said the incentives are just wrong. I I think there is a technology solution to this, or at least the solution to improve this. This communication mechanism is not obvious. Howard have a bunch of sort of more detailed ideas, but this is fascinating, because I have gotten a chance. Jack dorsey? Quite a bit sees the sea of twitter and he is the legitimately has now conversation. He would agree with

breathing and he's a you were being it, has a lot of good ideas: how to improve things. The question when you're a captain of a ship wonderland weather, it's a question whether ceos even a captain. How much can you actually steer their ship he's got a large enough there's so much more matter so many users that so many people who are marketing and pr and lawyers is very difficult to change things. Is it difficult because of the fall out or difficult, because it's actually like literally out of his power supply? I was weird when you have a large organization. This is why the great leaders, what this, what great leaders, do, whether it's presidents or leaders of companies, Steve jobs, I would argue mosque- is that way is to walk into a room full of people who don't want you to create drama

it's weird man when people just kind of wouldn't be nice, the niceness creates momentum and nobody wants to systems thing ever. Beaches behaves in the way they were previously behaving in the way they are supposed to behave in We want to raise a fuss. It takes a great man, a woman leader to step in and say we ve been doing, is bullshit, ok, you're, fired if you're cool. What is it that I'm out? I I think you have to create constant revolutions within a company, that's very, very difficult to do structurally and psychologically it's very difficult to do to to able to serve yet to constantly challenged the way things have been done in the past, and that which is why another waits often done is a start up like a small company. Basically

as a small company because of the successful and then no longer, can it turn the ship? Some new startup comes along for a new competitor that then challenges the big ship, and then that starts out the winner. That's like Google came to be so. Twitter came to be facebook, and so on and apple has you know that that was the dream of steve jobs. Would succeed for for many decades for centuries. That was the idea you keep key creating revolutions and understood jobs, apple successfully, pivoted a bunch of times just take reinvented themselves, which is very difficult to do. It's because I mean for at least all of this is accurate, because I wouldn't know anything, but I've heard plenty. People compare complain about steve jobs, yeah, but.

In reality. The reason that all of these amazing things were done was because this person was willing to obviously brilliant and then was willing to to rattle them in a rather liberal ones. Cage periodically and say, hey what's going on is not what we need to be doing that. This is a really interesting thing, so he would rattle the cage, but he was also I dunno. If those are intricately connected or always have to be, but he would just be a dick, so maybe by my maybe by history and ryan, lazy and worthless as I see that he is being a dick, though, if, by his standard I mean like again, it's like everyone stupid, very somebody then I guess, but it's so you you apparently able to take the kind of thing is sometimes you just you caught there's this waste across the line, and I mean this is ok The fascinating about being a leader, especially leader of companies, is its people problem. each individual in a room.

As a lawyer, you only really interact with a small number of people, khazar leaders of other smaller groups and so on. But each of those individuals in the room have their own different psychology. Some like to be pushed to the limit. Some some like like to be screamed at some of us, are very soft, spoken and almost afraid to speak, and they have to be. Ah, you have to you have to hear them all. like there's a and those those could be all superstars? We're not we're not talking about like the system email students what's funny they did. The thing to me the skill to manage all of those people is completely suffer from the skill to innovate, something I'm in another they're not connected, but it's a funny outside It's almost like a why we should, in my view, representatives, Well, I mean the thing that you do to get elected.

Nothing to do with governance. Yes, yourself with an executive, but the the great leaders had to have both skills like have to have the boldness of navy. If you look at the great presidents through history, your users in a time of crisis, is when they step up, but they basically say okay, we stop this old way that congress works of this bickering of this. Like compromise bullshit, here's a huge plan that cost billions of dollars in today's age, trillions of dollars, no extra pork, no extra additions, just like here's, a clear plan we're going to the best road network that the world has ever seen or going to build some huge infrastructure project will go to revel. I think we're going to foot corona virus. We're going to build the largest like testing facility, the world has ever seen in terms of the

I'm going get everybody tested several times a day, almost causing huge projects and save fuck. All this, the details that everybody's bickering about again give everybody two thousand dollars in give away three thousand dollars a huge projects and, at the same time as the boldness in the leadership and saying throughout all the bullshit of the past, and at the same time be able to get in the room with the leaders of both parties over the powerful individuals as smooth talk, this shit in the way they need to be small. Talk too so, like both of those skills when their combined one person does that great great leaders, Moscow, here's to have that young. I don't know steve jobs, it's interesting, so the criticism. Instead, eve and the low, but I on is he misses some of the human part by me in maybe it's impossible to have a really

like saying a doll whose of sea of microsoft yeah, who is really grant human side really really gonna on the like, everybody loves the seal of google alphabet is, they were same like I don't it's possible to have both The only at so many step in with you Well, he is in his rpg of life. You got very good at just two very fast see what I mean. He told the story of Uba and so on, but you won't. You want to blackbelt really quickly and not just in terms of ranks but in terms of just skill level even go to blackboard nearly as fast as your skill set developed. Your

I like doing extremely well in high level competition. So you're good person ask how does one get good at jitsu? We we talked about solving problems at the elite level, but when you're a beginner at the at the martial arts, heidi a good. How much training should you do at the very basic stuffs? They commerce, training, humming drawing, and then the mental stuff like where she's your mind, be how she jus approach it from a mental precisely to not just time perspective on this one. I guess I would say I feel step one I feel lucky to have found. You know a good in situation, particularly for the time in our inner in where in where I was at, and I drew a tonne. I would draw and and drilled enrolled in and drilled, and

one wanting is really important. Understand, though, is that I was able to in a relatively brief period of years, you'll go from zero to reasonably good, bye, bye, I think, probably crammed more hours in those small years. Then most people did training, let's say in two or three times the life so it may not may masquerade as something else other than it is I I could say he had to put in the hours yet nowhere on that, I I think so. What did you put in those out so that when drilling can break that apart a little like what what what is drawing looks like? Is there any recommendations that can absolutely step one? I would say your choices matter like there's a. I think one of the really important things- and I think we should consider about fugitives- that there's a lot of junk in the system right now- it's like a jitters, exploded terms over the number positions techniques strategies this, that rule says that,

really cool. On the one hand, on the other hand, there's probably just metric shit on of sub optimal things that are out there that are being taught mice, myself included are things that are looking back five years three years two years one year on. Like would not do it like that anymore straits sandra, wouldn't do it like that other sent. I would literally never do even that particular movement. I don't think the shrimp is remove its gets a it's a shown person but long sword was there's a lot of things that, if we think of his fundamental that I think that are really pretty next. And also you know this harrison jujitsu. Isn't it a shrimp? Exactly is like the whole we all worship the trend. We love the french. We love the shrimp now for people would under jet. Soon you should the shrimp. Is you screw you? But,

way from your opponent year in a row. You really ascribes. Well, it's like a really athletic looking position where you look like a like some of the drastic their bought out on his two graham and then you wash your hands away and you expose your face and then are you lay on your side because someone told you to do that. and you look like you, I guess you're like a shrimp, yet it's like the time that you know someone really credible, told me to drink? I led a gasoline. I did it for a while and then you know I got to the point my life, where you know the next best thing that I need to do to really improve my life or stop drinking unleaded gasoline, and I would say that there's like a lot of stuff, that's it it's in there that step. One is like a its junk, its actual junk in its Not only will it waste your time, it's true, it will straight up it will. It will be like an albatross hanging on you, because it affects how you think about things going forward Although I was it's funny,

like the operating assumptions. That would that we we work under. I have a huge, huge, huge influence you mentioned, like growing up in the united states, or this being a capitalist society like whew, alright. Now, of course, I think that I don't really know any different otherwise, and I think that a lot of times people go all communism is better. I'm like haven't seen it and read any books about it would be better. it is possible. I mean who I haven't, experienced it much myself either, so I can't dismiss it outright, but I guess I would say it's a fundamentally differing differing operating system underpinning and of my choices. All of if I honestly believe in that thing many my choices on a moment by moment on a day by day is certainly a lifetime basis would be very different. So I say that it's tough when you're, what you're young in the martial arts of, and I mean all of us, are always trying to do our best to learn. But when you're young in the martial arts, you always go if you're reasonable guy. What are they We call it like dunning kruger amnesia came here. This is the right one, but basically you go like oh. I know what I'm doing here, so I can say that's not right

Then I read a news story about baseball. Only thing about baseball sounds credible and it's it's bullshit, but I can't call bullshit if you're a reasonable person, you can't call bullshit on things that you don't understand, even if you suspect it's not riley. Reserve judgment you'd. Never ever ever, set aside your your, need and also obligation to understand why you were doing what you're doing and don't ask? Why once ask why, over and over and over and over about the same thing Oh, I want to shrimp why to make space. Why do I want to make space to? from carefully I will want to want to get away from while, because he's danger of wise you dangerous and you can oftentimes gets, wait a minute. I didn't mean to move three courses. You're actually acting in the other person self interest and out- and I guess a lot of times- I can't this kind of goes beyond will weaken its. You know demonstrate here, but I would just say trying to understand what my base operating sanctions are inconsistently, re evaluate them, which can be frickin, exhausting frankly, and also consonance carbon is destroying. but you mentioned that I did. I did pretty well relatively quickly. I was it

I started in two thousand for- and I was the other dhabi abc see for the first time is an alternate in two thousand and seven. I want to there? S a blabber world champion and the fact frankly, the fact that I was able to beat someone like that was neat, but at this Science has little bit more about what you did to is and some of the issues with it then it does about how cool I am was because that shouldn't really happen. We think about a year. Ok you're you're champion it at ostensibly were a very high level of the sport. You enjoy a three inch. Four inch height advantage and a thirty five pound weight advantage, and you just- beat like that should not accept some serious that I'm dead sears than should not exist, and if that happens, you're doing it wrong. Is it that I'm doing it right or so that you're doing it wrong and there's enough very in the way that you're doing it. That or allowing me to win, and now I did happen to win that with a fifty foot, the heel hook, which was fifty fifty, but on what basis,

which was one of the early examples of like hey guys by the way people contrive to hurt you. and that was something like we mentioned. John Danaher mentioned, like you know, myself, dean lister a lot of the guys from the hanzo gracie team that have had amazing success, they've gone and done great things on a credit only in the competitive grappling world, basically taking advantage of being very, very good and they're doing, but also a glaring, glaring, glaring issue at the operating system of jujitsu, which was in a huge vulnerability. In the lower body and not only not attacking it, but having no idea how one does attack at which means you can understand how to how someone will assail you so anyway, Am I guessed to come back is if, in the end In the absence of knowing what to do, I try to polish what I've got so I've got a knife and I'm like I dunno how to use my Joakim. She can sharpen the edge and polish and make sure that when I need to use this dang thing I'll be able to do it because trying to put together a system when you don't have an idea of. What's going on a lot of times, you end up making and see the sultan.

choices, but as long as you're consistently reevaluating what you're doing and that's something I've tried to do overtime over and over and over again and try to seek out the at the most and the the best and also most are articulate or insightful instructors. Are people of the very slow doesn't matter there? Well known or not? That could say, hey ryan, I think you should do this thing should do that and I think all never done in march, watches. Try to treat people with respect honestly right on demonstrate appreciation, for many many people who have helped me over time and be the type of person that they want to train with, not the type of, because we've all trained with people that make us think about beating the ever loving crap, and I never wanted it'd, be that guy and I was basically saying like if, if I train with a black belt, when I'm a blue belt, and then this person enjoys train with me and that's in my we're selfishly. Not only do I not want them to beat me up, but selfishly I should you mentioned, being decent other pb on incentivize being decent other people write with a structure what you're doing said

Firstly, I'm incentivize to be a nice guy, even if on internally a scumbag, which I like to think that I'm not Basically, I going like hey disguise way more likely to help me or this person's women like that help me. If I shake your hand say thank you are really free. It's me out and let that thing that they taught me four or five times, I'm going. Ask him about it. and then they will have to tell me they're under no obligation, but also in where the summer don't thank you so much for your time, really appreciate it and that that's it you know. So to summarize of where you are brilliantly described, I just want to make sure we're we've been traveling all over the place. There's no! You didn't you're you're pretty on point, but as the the first thing is basically which is difficult, I wonder if we can break it apart. A little bit is: don't trust authority essential keep asking why he resentful without trusting authority right right, which is, and then the second things be the kind of person that others like

training with are like being around sort of ah being a good friend, and so so many people just enjoy being Russell. One is completely which is yeah. You raise the tension, which is like completely disrespect the the way that that they're done so asking why constantly one of it is your own flaws and not understanding the fundamentals was being described and then once you get good enough, not understanding like going against the fact that the instructor doesn't understand and my inability to understand what you're saying that doesn't invalidated that some, like you mentioned, like miss mentioned. Keeping in mind our own flaws and then also again the flaws that any of us have as the instructor to your point- and I guess I can speak to being kind of weird- I don't uh, you know I like to sit in the corner, but so ruins a little bit different, some people again, I wasn't terribly popular in high school. I you know I gotta I like escobar

Much, but anyway I would not be rooted. People there has ever been a bully anybody said hello to me and say hello back. I would hold the door for you if you want by and I would say I like simple things like that: go along law long way and actually takes us back to our. to our social discussion where I'm like. Oh man, how do I become great at jujitsu? It's like well I'll start by not pissing off this person who can beat the crap out of me and not disrespecting the person who is probably the the clears. The closest thing to a font of knowledge at that time for me so and then recognising that they should do that for its own virtue, because it's the right thing to do and if you try to treat people decently but beyond that, even selfishly, it's him interest to do that but see the thing is that this is interesting, as does the culture, martial, arts and culture there alike. Were those structure legitimate

also carries an aura of authority, and it's not comfortable to really ask why I am not it. It's a skill to be able to have a discussion as a white belt, but the blackboard instructor of like why, Is it done this way like an saying? Why, again, like would as a skill to show the you actual legitimately a curious and passionate and compassionate student verses lakes? when he was just being an annoying dick who saw some stuff on you do there's a line between two walk there. I just wonder because that is the drilling thing. You know I am, for example, My in the one when I was coming up. There is so much emphasis placed on my close guard, for example, and you might, you might actually teach me now. I dont know

But to me it was like: why do I need to master the clothes like? Why is the closed guard on top or the bottom, but the bottom really the fundamental basics of jujitsu? Who decided that my body is not my body says this is wrong. I'm a vague this. They have short legs, but doesn't matter linked the legs. There's some I think Bob me that just I don't understand how leverage who works for my particular body like so just it's a feel thing to like it feels like in my basic understanding of leverage and movement and timing, and so on. It feels like these certain, like butterfly guard or even like half biscuit every guard, except the coastguard I I can play. I can dance close guard feels like you're. Shutting down

like the play that I am wrong, or is that make sure that's what you want, because that's almost like an innate characteristic of this guard position, but it's not sold that we were to say hey. This is a good guard. That's like hey man, here's a bow and arrow verses, and you know how to use this thing right. Make sure you're far away and like up on a hill or something negative that both our run want something and try to use it. But if nobody told you not to do that. and they told me, was foundational its very foundations for import. You everything else, too. That's back to the tramping! Think how many things are we ve taught that, even if it's not let's say itself is not a garbage thing might be effectively garbage. If you could give me a ferrari it, but if I try to make it why it's not gonna work, if you like emma here's a plane, here's another plane, here's another plane, here's another plane, here's a ferrari and, like all, must be different type of plane that you can be forgiven for for leap. If we're going

or you know like? Maybe the wings come out. He just go fast enough that a bullet mic and you can make these crazy leaps in your mind and people doing that all the time. So, if you don't provide the context for me or worse, yet you provide improper context like how how much of a problem is that going to be well, I think the skill of the way boat should be just be nice, but so in the complicated human space of one, your intention at least it in the big picture view is good this. The question is, if not always win, your intention is good. The actual implementation of it is good, so you might be just almost an end as much, if not the case, for you

who is much more if wipe us, they don't even know their intention may be good, but there are no. All the lines are crossing all the right to deny it. She is able to and beg interpret all the ways in which their being totally insensitive to the requests of others are explicit request of others, so you're job as a beginner is to be a really good listener of those social cues while visiting a foreign country right yeah like you are representative of people that look like you, people that talk like you, people that have your passport and you're like man, I'm gonna go over here. I've got my foot up on my knee. While, if I was in certain constant url, that's rude, Oh I'm so sorry, but key measure sources, hey a really appreciate you take your foot off, that's pretty room, and then I want to tell him well not we're on from men, but I'm in your house, I better Then I may go that direction, but less I could get away with that. Now, I'm a bully and if I can get away with that, what I am about to make beyond the wrong side of something, but I guess it looked like he said, but have we have positive intention? That's fine, but I'll

recognize who I am, and I think that that's one thing that I tried to do and continue to try to do over time like worth. all men are high on the one. That's asking for a favour here. If I borrowed raymond dales raymond days. Do me a favor? I ain't doing him a favor, let's not get it twisted. So thank you so much at the time. I really appreciate this is not, and this is not like some affected nonsense. Serious and like vacuous face Barbara Stephen thompson and I'm the one being the favorite george St Pierre, takes times for me, which he has in the past and and not even kill me, which is really. I appreciate that cause. That's why I can sit here. George is not a prop for me to to, to get my rocks or see, what's going on, and also I'm gonna do and then expect him to just take it and I've. Seen of these gentlemen, I've seen people get not. georgian and have him just like. He has a he's, a patience of a saint, and I don't have that level of patience, but I would just say to come back what, if figuring out like hey, so what what role am I here and that comes back to where, like at least what I see people on the internet, yeah man, I have a beef with Joe.

No, you don't line you're some guph, don't like I'm. Some random do joe like people one at that. I just want to like elevate so that we can somehow be level where peers. Here, if I go into frost hobbies gym, I am not appear for us abi. I am a student of tristar. I am a guest in the academy and a for us asked me for something short of him, like you know telling me to try to do a triple back. I brought my neck dancers. Yes, sir. I can def refresh men than oars and its and hopefully should come with, I guess and a level of graciousness break. That's kind of one of the things that the sea nowadays with a how accessible people walks. I grew up, may not be in a big huge based sports fan of all kinds. I couldn't sendero general message and eat and much less have a possibility of reply, and if I do it, like you know, I have people send messages very nicely that people some rest, some people alien and everyone, not everyone- has come from the same place, but I've had plenty of things like yo dude. I need you to do this for me and like well I'll tell you was never going to happen.

That I have no idea who you are, and that was powers addressed, and I don't need all men, the greatest one, because that's weird and two because I'm not but just heroin how you doing eight. You think you could do the following if you get a second like, if I get a second time can one as easy asked, but it would it started with. some level of politeness- and I guess, like that's- maybe beans semi, so and lawyer- grew virginia. Yes, sir, it's man like he does yeah. Well, there's all different kinds of implementations of players. I mean all most of the successful people had married that it's been surprising to me. How much have you imagined peers, like the like? I could think of the Joe rogan imagined Joe rogan, but in your mosque they don't like they almost treat me like I'm the superior. You know what I mean like it's, not even it's it's that the politeness like you know it that

The approached the feeling of it is like I'm, the stew numb the beginner, I'm like approaching a situation like it's. It's a it's almost like a method acting of like you're, better than me that in that's how I approach our lot of interactions like I have something to learn from this. Even if it's like a young, do you think that their on genuine there are totally genuine? That is not a funny thing. I can of who they are their incredibly general, because they respect correct me. If I'm wrong the respect you obviously for what you're going to table, does not the project will be sorted by dealt with a number that I'm sure they respect, which means they will beyond that. Though, there is the chicken with dignity as a human being as a human being which ray pittman when they could. Probably get away with treating most people without a whole heck of a lot of dignity. And I guess what does that always say that, like you know again like you, can always tell someone of of of quality because they treat the king the and the janitor the same way, but that were seen a lot like a key ideas, guess I don't mean to like to nip picked this road take issue.

A little bit or disagree with a unit. Criticise within the internet again are not defer your head manuals, it yells clouds, but that but anyone, but what I mean is just like the way that people address each other, because it's so casual now, and it's like it's great: on the one hand, it's nice. On the other hand, you go hey, I just like him Am I somehow familiar my worried about diminishing my sounds like the way that I'm sure the people talked like talk to women sometimes and words you're, so girl, she bit? The universe is like well that was supposed to get a good response. Won't what about that was going to elicit a favourable response? versus being anything anything other than than just your man

what's going on and I guess that doesn't make any sense either. It makes total sense in that southern thing that you're, referring to I I feel, like that's an important, that's an important part of human communication. Let me ask you this sure. Your new back attacks instructional first of all, awesome yeah. I second of all he right you draw up a lot of fascinating and says: never. You quote galileo of our people. In saying that you can't you men anything you can only help him find it within herself. So we talked about how to start in the desert What about the zoom out even more, and how do you learn how to learn. How do you up was the learning process. I don't. The answer that I can say what you like to do and I would say, like I can't stop one. I don't I maybe this is all about ease of measures on I've never had a tunnel.

Friends, honestly, I've got my close friends and people are now, but I have never had tons and tons of people spend a lot of time thinking anywhere you. I can't. I can't control you. I can't control anybody else. I you know I am. All I can. I want to take my four I'll get some marks released thing. It's like you know. I guess the trick to life is figuring out. What's in our control and what's not and focus on things that are in our control, I guess, and so step, one is figuring out both internally and then also out in the does it as obtained jitsu. What is actually in my controlling what has not been passing someone's guard is not in your control. People think it is an aim if, I can't just do an activity and be unchecked, then In my control entirely, I can always breathe I can always me and I'll be com.

I can always no matter whether I'm concerned or not concerned have. What have you are call nerves, economic. I can step forward across want to say I will, I will face the challenges that is all entirely no one to stop me from doing. That is entirely control. That's why I know that every single time that I walk into the ring I'll walk in and out of there with my head high, because there's I I will fight with everything that I have. I can't promise at all when I would say I'd take that same first principles mentioned last sunday talking with with on and the importance of that, going. What are the first principles, I guess to come back a lot of times. In my opinion, things that people think or the basics or not the basics. You can't learn if you think your reason for first principles, which russia, like level, six you're, actually like layer up you're making so many this so baked in assumptions to what's going on that you're gonna struggled to understand why anything is actually happening internally, internally, you name it so

guess? What I would start when it comes to learning is first principles and try to understand what's going on, but then also simple things. First, I can control and push. I can control my breathing. No one could stop me from doing that. I can control. Where I place my frames, I can control where I place my limbs, I can move my feet. I can develop the ability to do these things better, Of course, I do that through practice through drilling to watching people. I've been incredibly fortunate in my time in martial arts to train with many of my heroes, the train with many of the people that I looked at and was like that guy is amazing. I want to train with this person like trip Stephen thompson, Kenny Florian, george, ST pierre raymond dales fraud, a hobby. You know I mean like brutal force out a morsel garcia. All you all of these guys that are just unbelievable and I got more they're moving in a way that different. How I do that was Don't you can ask them and they can t directly other times people part of the genius of what they do. Is that its intuitive and maybe they don't think and

I stand and see the world the same way that I do. That was something that I experienced. Marcelo is amazing, but in in a different way than it is it just we see things fundamentally different experts, the world differently or seems to me that we do and again that that taught me a really important lesson cause. I was wanting when I train there to have someone go: hey ryan. Do this this this and this and that's how it works, and I'm like all right, because that's how I understood martial arts at the time- and I was ready to have someone tell me like hey, if feels a little bit like this, and I just kind of do it, which is kind of what marcelo would do at the time as he was less experienced as a teacher, but that is what he was doing, I was completely I couldn't separate in my mind, performance and understanding. I thought that if I understood I could do it now. It also wonders I would also struggle sometimes to wonder why I couldn't execute things that I thought I understood.

and why guys I more selo war just so elemental. I mean in like that like lightning wind, like that type of thing like it's so in touch with what they wanted with with their capabilities, they some in their powers? It will. I can always do that and I guess so recognizing that there was more than one way to the top of the mountain and also I had a lot of science, but I didn't have a lot of art. I had some science I should say, but I didn't have a lot of art meeting people. Like Marcella taught me and then josh weight skin, actually brilliant guy, a chess champion former owner, maybe owner of a martial arts academy, really great friend, that he has a book on learning. He is the art of learning sharp but yeah. He knows a thing or two about it, but a great guy in any way he he sat me down. One time was like lippmann you're doing this wrong. You're missing. What the missing the genius, the brilliance, this right in front of you and- It's what we wanted. I mean that I was frustrated with with my inability to graff certain things

and sometimes the teaching staff being different wrongs it was it was issued. To me, it my like to replicate what marcelo was saying as opposed to understanding the the so the fundamentalist for which it was coming right, I couldn't see I couldn't see where it was coming from and also sometimes I'm like mitt, will why can't you explain it in the way that I would want you to explain this a well? Why, and I made him where he's coming from you- so anyway. What it was a really important time, unless very frustrating for me but it's not I'm so thankful for that time. And anyway, are you I always first principles trying to understand the basics and were starting at the place where you can control things, the the vague elements away you can work with and then when there's other matters and teachers to are the more they're coming from meet them. What are they shelter? camp rather than I'm not like against a wire. Do not talking to me the way. I want you to talk to me For say where you come in from back to your point:

But- and I know that is not entirely specific, but you know like if you can focus on that and back to the whole, you can't teach a man. Anything Marcelo didn't teach me anything, but he taught me in so doing like and other than other people like that to urge you not to find it within and it's like. The idea is something else that I have heard before All learning is self discovery, but all performance is self expression, and I- Furthermore, seller was a brilliant master of letting what's inside out, he would he was so consistent and whose performance and a lotta times I felt like there was a block there personally, particularly at the end of the jitsu. When I was very very results. Oriented- and I wasn't, I think I think my focus was- was not a deal. It was definitely not in not in the place that I would like it to be and whether it would have won more or lost more hard to say, but another would perform better if I'd have adjusted that and anywhere that recognizing that again jujitsu, I think I've said it before. Judges who studies science but expressed is an art. It doesn't matter if you can articulate what you know how to do. What matters. If you can do what you gotta do,

matters, if you're in august, for teaching them in a verbal fashions whether or not you can articulate but a wreck rising the difference between learning. on an intellectual, leveller conceptual level and being able to translate that into the physical and- I guess, like that's, been the thing that I feel like fortunate over time, my own academy to be able to kind of fiddle around and learn on my own and practice my students and Sometimes a struggle to have great trading partners like when she grew chain for I'm in other world class people, disbarred role with, but I've gotten a lot more honestly than I ever would have thought out of being able to practice and learn and fail and try and succeed on my own without, like my own little sandbox and figuring out, how I can take an idea and then come up with drills and and drills to practice it so that I can actually practice putting into play because again, knowing an idea not drilling the point I never have it. It will never I'll, never see the light of day. So in that dvd in that instructions you decide its an hour later

Russia is a socially active saint dvd though nobody has dvds anymore to them at the edges owner who has dvd or the blu ray That's some dvds and then I have never what do you use them for, like like a couple like a cup like thing you put a drink on when we in the picture was even cod MR meyer matrix coaster them, The major diseases are ones So in that instruction that Cuba should, as she get I've, been watching a really enjoying its. Nor can I recently read the December summit that it saw its spots when you're actually like it it'll, be like eighteen hours long and it's like. Oh my god, we gotta chop and having it when it comes together. The thing I think I hope like it near. What's that if parliament is good, as I share the people

people really excited for parties were really You also have a back of the old one, the old one that those really helpful to meet and a share of very basic aspects of control. really back here. Those are in that click. Put me as very few structures. Those very few things I've watched that ever clip of me and I was definitely it. I taught me one thing: I dunno it's a you: have you drop a lot of sir bombs? You drop a lot of really interesting details and is funny. That their specific things are really quick. I think a lot of it rings true and you kind of take it in his like. Oh that's, interesting, okay, yeah, but there's certain things that really click and I remember when that first instruction will click with me is like the importance

at adult. I don't remember any more like how you communicated it, because I've now integrated it's now mine it. You know what I mean, but it It's more about you just describing upper body control and the importance of the upper body control from the back, and just like the that there are certain grit like that that did you did describe different details on the grips and so on and, as I started trying it, I realize how important upper a body control is verses. Like me, a man may be as bluebells or something. What was I thought like you achieved victory when you got the two oxen and then I realized like at least for me that the hawks were not even for my bite for my style, for the way I approached things they were not even at all, if supplemental for the most part yet so they were there for the points, but I can establish a huge amount of control. In fact, the hooks

were you. You were talking like illusion of choice. It's it's a almost made people panic a lot more. When you were like fighting for years establishing that kind of control, they weren't a lot less panicked. One now hooks worn involved, even though, It should be a lot more panicked anyway. I realize a lot of those kinds of things, especially that had to do with judo, because so much of judo on the ground is centred around aggressive, efficient, very fast, choking, difficult, different kinds, father, clock, jokes and what one thing that is only gonna start to make it's way into Jiu jitsu, coming up at like the judo style approach to like clock, choking trying ling from the top of the turtle and stuff so powerful yeah and the the the something about judo that emphasizes, obviously, due to the the urgency, and so there you only do techniques the gulf fast The other thing is, I guess it judges to emphasise to but

you don't really does, which is the transition, so I while the purses flying in the air is the easiest time this is like growing ever shed, which is like why not putting yours missions are positional control, whether in the air and then, if you heard, why would you not I don't throw well, will learn how to throw and then do it, and so you should think I mean in a transition when they're flying is the easiest time to put in stuff, and that's when you think about chokes as you're throwing should be thinking. but the joke, and then everything becomes a lot easier if she florio counter view. In judokas. Yes, ok like with stuff like that yeah exactly, but but that has to do with the first starting principle of like stop thinking this as a two phase.

His game of ah standing and the ground start thinking about like the standing in the the standing cause before the ground comes after, but everything happens on the track edition one last year attacking what is it? What is the art of war like and we all like everyone's korea, the order war, I as he says, and then they immediately throw it away and then fight like a frickin barbarian, but yeah like measures, but you know how many people quote stuff and then, like. We know exactly what is a family guy joke or the like taking quoting Jesus and Jesus walks in as I can also buy work. What are you talking to anyway? Yeah, basically have you know like what like the art of war. You know one of the things the psyche. Only thing that you can be sure of being successful in attacking is something this undefended well like we're, but you know that we see that they are in a fight other defended. Well or the businessmen all the time on the borderline defenceless and if you were to attack at that moment, if you could it and then seize the moment. If you are capable of both,

it should not only expect to be successful. You should be damn sure, you'd be successful in more more important, that you'll be successful, and even if somehow not you won't be countered I guess like that. That's the trick of almost all all like conflict right is showing up when the other persons in taking a nap and then so funny like would take a protracted wards. I got six five years and there's you know laws and there's a battle this month. But then, as a couple of weeks, another battle it's like well, if you just shrink that down at the microcosm macrocosm idea that same thing that whole war is taking place in five minutes or ten minutes or fifteen minute, and there's moments of laws of person effectively go in for a snack I'll, be like you know, horror movie, like hey guys, I'm going to beer from the from round the way like I'm dead, fish or so anyway. is this pretty girls and structural. If you can kind of into words. Each agua fish submission. Is there some interesting incites the fine beer for profit,

around about finishing the rear neck, a joke or just finishing submission to the back control. Is there some, like you know you talkin tat, the squeezing the crash in all these kinds of principles. Is there something more control about the process fishing there. U fine, especially profound abolished, was absolutely the opposite of one profound truth to be another profound truth. So, like a hit, I do Jesus say that no, I I actually was a guy on tumblr, but there's really really cool like I like it. Free in the background, but anyway I was so let's say like Values are used. Examples like first off I saw of someone finishing a fifty fifty you look in the EU have see one promo Some chubby do necrology he'll like inside another dude, You go.

I didn't know they were doing that back then alleys and whether they were doing and how many times has someone do something, and then that work and then we go home versus hemingway should do all the time so any How long do where we all talk to the seat of the way? We all do the same now in g2 like long time by works. In fact it works so well, and it So it was then the people who used it were so prolific that we went well solve that one fund ago. Our I'd know more. thinking, and then you go. Imagine you would like the merkel and Marco flip all those position we're showing in the in the dvd, which is pretty much are the whatever the heck it is, and all of the digital vd and none at vd know what that digital, physical video something but basically recognise. That doing it on the wrong side? Is it least, as effective doesnt mean that The other side wasn't good. There could be something: that's the literal borderline opposite of that and you go huh. That's somethin.

Like. Imagine, like, I would say, almost all of these thing, all the tactics and all the strategies. So I guess that was something that we came to it like training in the gym, like your yomi and then playing with since, and it's just I choose them like always. So let me get this straight first, if I can use my strong side seatbelt my my right arm over the shoulder and all the time. Well, that's that's really helpful. it's all about him alive, you both animal effort, if I had it, but my life on on being finish it my right arm over everything, that's a tactic or a strategy of all from an idea like capitalism's an idea You know, anarchy is an idea and then it becomes a. What does that? All mean what does it? What are the consequences? Where's the fall out of all this right. So what if we start with jujitsu the id of the guard right and we go well, I mean when do you want to use the guard nor the marshal are really has developed a guard in the same way the jitsu has well. What is the guard garden? defensive idea, where you're kind of on your back to some extent and using your legs a wall between you and the other person in the other guy. Is dangerous idea. That's great idea! Is it clear

works at least to a certain extent, but what of work I put my legs when I'm gonna get up now, the other dude, I'm trying to put them out things on the floor. If I want to generate a ton of power, was the first thing I do at my feet. I anchored the floor try for a paunch, you name it move away, jaunt darkness. You name it so does it mean that that's a terrible idea to be on your back no clearly at work and clearly it illustrates, has function but what, if the function that we're giving it and where and the how much, how much focus we're assigning to it is disproportionate to it's effectiveness. Maybe what? If it's not a good idea, I'm not saying it's not a good idea, but what, if it wasn't, that's a foundational idea of jujitsu and then how much? Because no one questions that foundation, how much innovation is built on top of the idea will, of course I want to it might being on. My back is an okay position, so now they're innovating, but they're innovating within a closed system that they'd only they think they're innovating in in like in this open space of oh, my god, be anything when in rally, it can be anything within this little set yeah. But you don't realize that you're in a set, you don't realize that you're in a box

There would be answers that would become so immediately apparent to you if you were willing to look outside of that. But you you'll literally, never look over to your left because you don't realize the left exists? Do you think, there's a lot of places in future too, whether back control generally guards and all the different positions were a lot of space like a lot, a lot to be discovered by questioning the sk assumptions. Yes, eve. Lanceor examples look back control. I guess there suddenly discovered this muddle versus sheep out. Well, go and see, but she felt his right arm of the shoulder left them the arm on Monday, I'm on the same side as my choking arm merkel is I did the same thing, anyone just my hands. I walk myself last item on the opposite side of section, for powerful position and for people listening for people who might not know jujitsu is a c bought. His control were talking about when one person is on the back of another person, which is a really dominant position, jitsu c belt. As a I guess why

the accepted way of holding that around. This is almost a rag decision and it worked so well said one arm over one arm under and there's a certain side you're supposed to be on and you're on the back. You know everyone teaches there's a choking on this on. That's over here. Bodies must be in a certain side relative to today, and then ryan is describing questioning least a basic functions of all which side it was beyond unless you that, even just like a mid level assumptions and even a first principles, assumption was pretty well, let's get this get in. There but a little militia safer sake of argument, it goes a lot deeper, maybe Most of the innovation that I see is not innovation. It's like basically changing the color of a car, more polishing like the window, a little bit we're like a made it you made it a little bit different. You made a little bit better, it's like all man. What, if I

the same guard and then grabbed the lapel on nothing was bed but you're, not fundamentally changing anything. I think most of the big seismic shifts that we see in almost anything come from new hate, but that thing we thought was right was wrong, rather than not only it right, it's even writer, enabling us on raw us on bed, but that's your in its like a man. Let's say france, I didn't make the triangle: Er blitt me the triangle a little bit better than it was or though then it was hot. Yeah, I mean you can call it innovation. I dunno man, it's not like the person. That said, hey have you guys ever heard of a triangle before and came up with that we like that is, I feel, like that's that's on the list. You can do this thing to people. Are you kidding me? Can you manage? you invented the straight right hand, you really one punch you walk around and just just lay low every single person you got into a fight with because it didn't even occur to them. To hit you with their backhand in a world full of jabbers, you throw your backhand you're, going to kill people

so basically, but by the way and in just the pause and that that first was somebody did in that the triangle. Probably regime is not a trivial thing once they now. If any of these giant things, that we are going on. We all use that now. Can you man, You have triangles and he'll hooks and were naked, and I dont have those you're Beat your borderline me like! That's. Why you that's? Why for every single one of these particulars of assuming when you for suffering. Let's talk I was thirteen. It was rather, let's not count wrestling but thirteen years ago with Jesus right on so let's say, let's say about that. Time were particularly was still like kind of kind of underground. He you know and you're like hey, we all experienced being like a relative like a mid level, white belt and being a easily beat up all our friends. because everyone wrestle other bodies and it was one ones were like they. Dont have weapons to end the fight you have weapons and the fight That's so could at such a crazy. You know asymmetric advantage. There.

If you lose its on you now, man like shit, like you had the next time. It's like I've got this rifle. And you have nothing- and I decided to put it on my back and then run over and try to karate chop you're like okay next time, just make sure you use the rifle, but I'm like oh yeah. I should do that. So it's kind of fascinating. Let me everything you describing as there's a fight fastening tension between like whenever I show people for the first time. What a triangle is just a regular people, it's like their discouraged at all Essentially, I mean I'm amazed change that people have haven't watched him. A may as an interesting. It doesn't make sense why that would be a choke and they kind of quickly accepted that's a thing and they accept the basics. Without questioning wait, a minute what's actually being choked, What how is it that a shoulder of a person can do the choking

like I'm, I'm not sure. I fully question the fundamentals of all of that leg or claim I have either what exactly is the blood supply that is being cut off like what? What it's the anatomy and the physiology of all of that artist's work, and if you understood all that, what else can we do here here? What else can we do here? That's the really important thing, but if we know farming user, which almost everyone is of almost anything. I'm serious worm like. I think my stuff I feel the things are really think about a like martial arts and martial arts strategy and light analogue smothered couple couple of things, but not much and anything else in my life is, is borderline unexamined, and I like to think that if I put a lot of effort in something like I'd like to think that I could figure at least some things out about it, but I figured out almost nothing. Anything in my life, because I haven't even looked and your if end user. What are you, Kate, beloved versus you, can literally alter the source code You are meal in the frickin matrix. If you can alter the code and I can't and its eye with la, but imagine you are a world class anything for you anymore, plus,

get it like a problem about compared to a wiped out or to anyone, know bout might as well be John jones and Marcella garcia beat them up comparably bed. So it's that then actually A common thing were people can't tell them she levels like all military, my black on instructor. How much better could someone so be? It. Somewhat better. You can have a hard time rapid your head around, and I remember when I first federal marshal about she into that. In seven I was a decent purple belt and, of course, in mali let me very gently and then a trail of them again and she thousand eight I was dead way better. I won the gear, no gi worlds at your proper belt, so definitely for the record. I'm definitely not a digital world champion. I wanted a proper belt, but like that's not the same at winning a blackout, and trump accomplishment, but not not the same thing in all, but anyway, arm out the better he beat me up, just like sanely thousand nine I was a lot better got a that eight issue that on one the trials crushed everywhere, Like no other similar everybody liked tat bob Bob bob trim marcella russia. It was worth

You two thousand and train more celebrates garcia same same. So the idea was, I wouldn't be able to tell you the difference in and that at the outcome difference was the same in all of these rounds. I was singing frequently more experienced a more and more depth each times each on that this occurred, but it was like how many number of times that this person submit your passion garden around. I'm, like I don't know, probably like. Let's say five, each one because of your brief period of time, unless they three on one six november, whatever its comrades it six one, it doesn't work easily tell the difference now I would just say, I know a concept that he's way better so much better, but there's plenty of other people that could have beat me just as bad as more solid. It allows it Well, when I was a brown belt, maybe I would watch marcella walk through like they're borderline, not there so It's me like if you that's back to what I was talking about about certain people, beginning to really like peel back. Some of what really special about the marshal launch. Any activity, I presume, is they get to a level,

understanding in depth that they're playing with like the almost Reality of that thing, and I'm lange by rules that are not rules. I'm not I'm not even one of the cheese, a matrix analogy, I'm not even an agent which is the best version of something playing by the rules. This I'm like one of the rare the people or one of the key regular people in that got out of the matrix or michael I'm cool. But when I fight nation I lose because we're both in rules, but they just plain to the claim to the bone I just hear one. Then the agent encounters neo and they can do nothing like why is operating outside of what the rules are, but not really what the rules are. What they perceived to be. The rules are clearly so anyway. I guess that's kind of point about more or certain other people that are doing things we go that doesn't seem real, it doesn't seem real to me because I don't understand what's going on and I guess if we can get down to base assumptions but like if we can constantly strip away strip away strip away. Let's say we always thought that turning left was right was correct and it turns out that turning right was correct. Change your life

It's a was it. Socrates said the unexamined life is not worth living, so you just basically have to rigorously just cast the examine every every assumption over and over and over, but doesn't that give your life meaning to come back to the struggle to come back to well to come back you what, if we could strip all that away, all right cool are jimmy, just the needle my mom, and that's that. no I mean that that constant striving for understanding yet another lower layer of the simulation we're living in, as as it is something that's actually deeply fulfilling that I dunno if it's genetically built in, but there's something about that striving to understand. That seems to be of reply. Human weeks. It's funny? What makes us human we? We don't talk about the soul, any more mana! I went to catholic school as a kid and worthy. I and all that stuff or not what the one about the soul of a person, spirit of a people. the spirit of a nation anywhere the spirit of humanity. We don't.

When we talk about everything like it's, this quantifiable thing when maybe certain things are maybe everything is but then what happens if there's things that just aren't quantifiable, Nothing in our understanding can or will ever explained. That doesn't mean that that should be our assumptions for yourself and we can explain everything it must get to the dying bought appeal pupil. But what? If there, actually something that, like that you the we need challenge for them, what can be looking in the wrong place by going our way. Is it in the genes? Maybe it is. I begin I'm not saying we're looking around place like, I would know anything. I do karate, but basically running well- but the average karate mediocre just ask raimondo stephen thousand, but I guess the to come back to wage a yo yo about you do you mean I she of us? You see the key seinfeld up somewhere, kramer, feisty, kids, did that Raymond Daniel school, under the kids she's wanting class as an addition so the alleyway but laugh at exactly when I was on my last legs butter

but yeah. I would just maybe it's funny. I feel like there's something deeply missing from you know from public understanding and more than it's almost like the idea that we can figure everything out, which I deeply believe in, but also the possibility that there's something's we'll never really see and somethings will never understand it. There's something you like said, uniquely human, about the human experience that even if I had the power to change how fuck with it man want to change that thing. Oh yeah! Well, I wouldn't it be great if we just immediately knew the outcome of everything and you just press this button, you gotta ask what's the point of living life and even if you could do it, it's the it's the inducing dress! Well, I'll leave you be sorry. Drummer Ian malcolm jurassic park, Jeff Goldblum, right at life, life or fines finds a way before we were so concerned with whether or not we could. We didn't stop to think whether or not we should maybe I am. I think this annex,

there's a deeper human thing, but is also really useful thing to always kind of assumed that there is this job They they dont, understand Sagan forever, be striving to understand, because that promise this gives you meaning, but also gives making better they thinking that achieving just thinking you can understand. Everything will lead you to stop too early. so I I think there's something to whether it's the soul or whether it's like religious stuff, like assuming that there's this thing, the cannot possibly understand is a really good assumption that wish to operate. And under wish to do this first principles. Kind of thinking, because you can just keep digging and keep digging, keep digging even when it seems like you're at the bottom, because you don't fucking know if you're at the bottom of the I see your original back to. One of our, I guess are, are another kind of tangents was that comes back to everyone's, a human being the smartest human being in the history of human

he is so hilariously week like a short, lived and not intelligent, soft bra. I understand I didn't say no, I'm not saying comparison to me in comparison to me. Everyone is awesome, but that's swaddled to the goat thing. but if a sickly were it just for on a cosmic level, can imagine use your vampire elect nine hundred years. All that counts. she would seem you seem like a lower case g god, the people they re like. How can you of How could you know so much? How can you have such a long view? Perspective will be insane saw me seems like we were taught buddy. I now I work of creating things that are in fact smarter than us effectively alive all this time and its progress. Do we chelsea right? now is probably will I hope it gives us around. Do you by the way think about ere I and the existential threats like speaking of gods. I you is this whole technological world who talk about such an hour. increasing power of technology around us.

we ourselves are becoming less you and because we keep becoming keep relying lying and technology more, more so becoming kinds of cyborgs, but also there's a future, this quite possible where the technology become smarter and more powerful than us humans and the o starts having a life of its own. the ways that perhaps we don't imagine you have beings around. You mean like two legged robots, walkin around and be humans, but smarter I mean like Tell your life that's It's beyond and fundamentally different than our human life is its infinite I am certain species yeah and you a new kind of species and I even just a new species it I was systems but like in a lives in the space of information. It lives

it's ah in a different time scale and a different scale of all source spatial scale it to operate like we speak, I spoke about individuals that doesn't operate in the sense of a single individual like a embody is not embodied. So it's not like a a thing that walks around and it like it looks at staff and consumes the world. It's able to do much larger scale, sensing of the environment around it all that cast off. I can believe in tropical. I can build you see what that will be lightly scared or excited idle defined. Scared or excited? I feel like a transcendent to find them like the same way when I'm like eh. I guess I have an kind of hasn't before kerry wiki the same. I well that's ashikaga my happy place. It's not so much everyone else's united. whilst is probably no hidden for the door at that point,

you know it's while you're doing it or leading or leading up to the karaoke said well, it depends whether or not whether or not they know it's me if they know it's me that's before I start if they has their. who's that guy than there like half way through the solidarity. It was withdrawn their beer. What categories a song or particular solemnly talking by terms like your hat, place merely kidding me. I mean obviously bohemian rhapsody- I mean there's no question but er yeah cause it'll have to sing it here. It's that second member can get. Can I become a target of course? Is a year no yeah, then yeah yeah, alright. Why does he know that I've never torn I've? I've torn feelings while bohemian rhapsody cause I like wraps exacted beginning part. The sadness allocate the solo heartbreak For the second part, I understand as solid as it gets. It gets ridiculous, it's so ridiculous. It ruins it. For me, it's more about flexing on people. I think if you can actually hit hit that hit, that near the falsetto yeah, so

is that your guess you appreciate not for the musical beauty in complexity. The saw you just like the flax, I'm just like you're all get like. What's the purposes of anything except for just to let everyone know that you think you're cool, and there's nobody where did at a karaoke, so unless your way, but after your cast of audience exactly all draw fear and excitement of artificial intelligence. You know me, I don't know anything about the. I basic annul idle and understand the implications of any this. I would say that lights radically, offering what it means to human in such an unbelievably short period of time just seems like such a crazy and also it's not like were neither camera who said this may reach my movie. I came over so the stuff, not my dear, but were we're not even going hey. Would you like to opt in everyone? Everyone is being opted in vienna, in particular, when you want to talk about

like large scale, robotics a large scale. Ay I like the world is changing. People in Senegal are opting in right now without realizing it aside, even like in the I don't mean to pick on Senegal's. Does this what country comes to mind, but this in the developing world, but basically a you know recognising that this huge shift is coming. We have no idea is a decent idea and also something else have always been considered. Is you don't you think about most of the really awful awful awful things that have done in history? large scale slavery, holly ain't, you name it it didn't it. People say that it came from his motivation of that motivation. Maybe it did. Maybe it didn't fundamentally the issue, at least in my mind, that I'm not a historian power differential. If you, if you and I can't contest- we don't contend- it's not like you we fight and you might, when are we fight even you'll, win comfortably? Is you are so unbelievably powerful compared to made that there's nothing. I can do to stop you. That's him

a recipe for something really really not great happening, because if you think about like up You know european countries encountering each other non respect. Just speculating. I don't know history ballistic countries to contend with one. Another vote is countries the cat, Let's say an alien species, alien re shows up in a right. Now we don't want that. I think stephen hawking said then the mixture refers as we will that if you can come here, we better hope you're nice. What are we gonna do what we had hoped that you invade the water planet like they didn't. You know one of the. Lord of the ria war of the worlds or so I guess what I'm trying to get across is like shocking levels of power. Differential between groups seem makes the next world ripe for horrific abuse in the event that someone decides to do it, it's Why could judge? I can imagine an adult hitting a child like hitting hitting a child. No one in their right mind would ever going liquidity because its such an it's so grossly imbalance jack. This is wrong, but but it's also on the table only because of the growth balance. So I guess to come back as if it were the.

A lie and its on some crazy will have its own or its I'm in large of it or sire. I just it seems like were creating. You mentioned like a game theory, nuclear war. What prevent Nuclear warm I mean for presumably mutually assured destruction and hopefully also humanity and end the humanity in the either reasonable cooler heads prevailing going hey. I can, I can understand. they'll of ignorance, and I I dont go I'll. Yet let me kill those guys because I can't go. This is wrong period and in concept does not actually should take, but it's also nice and easy to keep me honest. If I know that I can't get you without being got myself, but what happens when I can get anyone anything and a more or less untouchable like that seems to me to be like that, like very

his times in colonial history. You know what I mean and what happened. We know what happened, but so the possibility of really bad things are plentiful as possibilities, but are the possibilities of really as if things are plentiful, though I'm not sure I'm wrong, I don't know so. I can give a million examples. What we want is just the examples of the parent and the child. Ah, you said the there's a power differential. There and we don't like apparent heading a child when it let not just hitting like eating really great. Beating their child, how often percentage wise do you see that happening even though that that that a power differential first of all other people's kids, has just put us on the table? I love kids.

others, people's kids can be annoying. Sometimes sometimes you got a deal out some justice, I get it, but we don't practice. We don't take advantage of their power differential. So, like there is ethics, there's moralities that emerge that allowed the power differential to be used for good versus forbad. So, like you're, the one of the assumptions will soon hawking or with the. If russia became much more powerful than america. for much more powerful than russia in the cold war, you're assumption that, immediately that power differential now you're assumption what a generous offer would express itself in the in the sea. In the way that he was trying to express itself when there was a more level competition, but it's also possible when the power of friendship grows, the incentive, the joy, whatever the mechanisms that are made sense when it was at the same level that the incentives become very different

not as fun to destroy the ant colony? You start becoming more the kind of vog a conservationist, like one hopes once in a vault perspective, though yeah, what are of it's volume, knob is definitely a possibility, is unclear. Me that something that is many orders of magnitude more powerful than us will want to destroy us what we. What did that mean? How to patted me? slavery occur how did in like goods. Dogs plan will not, I don't think I think slavery and a lot of the atrocities in history happened when the power differential is not as good as far as we are talking about today. I potential is that not so worse than it would, if not obvious to me, is not obvious things that are way more powerful. They asked her, so I think I think you're just having restrain. It, though, there's a lot of different discussion of how to

Women restrain the show, because, let's say I go into side strikes on, was child which I'd like to think it wouldn't do. Yes, I will be promptly I'll, find myself in front of a judge and say I feel like there's a lot of you. Imagine how many people you should get murdered. Just in the woods I mean I would just presume it's a lot and nothing most people are lunatics like that. But I would say that's the point given now, if you're, given to that your ability to get away with it was was greater in the past because of chance of detection was less so that- does not allow the air the other reason. This is what a called official intelligence I say to research. called value alignment of ensuring, as you build the systems because martyrs, smarter, more powerful, powerful make sure that their values are aligned with the entities over wished her becoming powerful with that with human. So, if you were to talk to

it is becoming smarter first dumber than you that birds becoming smarter, smarter, you have to create mechanisms. Were you both valueless things I guess wanting. I wonder so. I guess the unemployed not blame sharply grasped this if alarmist, but I I got my wonder like they used a chess programmes, the universe, deep blue star. fish, and unlike alpha zero and alpha's euro teaching itself to beat start fish, without any help. In four hours year, like it becomes orders of magnitude, more intelligent than us in effectively in instantaneous period die, Well, I always wondered like if you were there smarter than me. The feel like your ability to manipulate me would be pretty significant, or at least potentially know it, but the manipulation implies that the incentive is

to overpower everything around you like that. There's implied incentives if your value is to actually like, it depends what you want in life. Will you want in your system vague? It is not clear that the goal of any isis than that's all powerful is to destroy all humans normal. I don't think that it is either. I guess what I'm going to leave all humans. I that's fair. I guess what I'm trying to suggest is that something adequately powerful these these actions are on the table. They're on the table and that's scary, and that's why a lot of people are really concerned about it and are working on it like I'm just trying to make the case for a jai, because if they're watching this, He's the one to kill now. Actually I was thinking out here, I watched toilets like really well.

Nine did that. That's the main concern for all the people. May I say to research people talk about asia eyes, it's it's kind of disturbing how little people are working on. Trying to create mechanisms that keep eyes values align with hours. That's completely on shocking yeah we were human seemed to only good one mike now even look I corona viruses like when they leave the water has been leaking from the ceiling you have to be there. How I find lot everywhere, fire just destruction. We do it. seemed to ignore completely in writing all over the wall. Writing all over the world Sure not nothing to see here will be ok

but we do array, especially in the united days, you figure out, even when it becomes a really serious problem, taking actions last minute there's something about the innovative spirit that results in a solution last minute right before the deadline. While I mean how are you school primal up out of the midmost that I see how I did I couldn't be more. I was no motivation of until, like the last, if you like, we have twenty two hours to do the entire semesters of work. Like do this, yeah, like nineteen frickin mountain dues them for this That's why you and I are failures in life, because I thought I might mention. Can you poor? the other, with his books, the deep work and so on. He is of the variety of these creatures that basically does everything ahead of time. That's shocking, because he this dislikes the he thinks it's unproductive to experience the stress,

anxiety of the deadline, because you just you're you're not going to be your best performers wise and you're not going to do. The best work said does make a completely irrational to r to a function based on deadline. You should have a system, a process that gets stuff a little bit of stuff done every day to like it should be r n constantly be systematically honest with yourself. If you say I'm going to get this stuff done today and this week at the end of the day at the end of the week after then reflect on what you did, who he planned and improve their plan updated cost the update every day, every week, every quarter, whatever those durations are as high as almost into this and reading his thoughts sake of that yeah. I grew everything. Yes, some was laughing. I like the reality, is and then go back and just eat cheetahs and life. it didn't mean, do shit until every last human cheesy, Yeah I don't need yours, but yet

actually a vague again and not that it alone, man, not that has ever gonna matter, because he saw shockingly productive and well thought out their whatever have decided. Think about trying to monkey in there is is definitely to be able to deal with. But it's funny that again because of human being not a god, all of your strength, so you have a corresponding witness, the less you practice working on gun, the less come to where you are working under the gun, the more brackish you have working under the gun, the buddy get it. The downside is euros working on in there. We are less productive. It's like your work. Quality may be dropped. So it's an interesting thing. It's like it's almost ok! I wonder if this I want. Tarifa can be no maga. Madoff has a lot of heart and a strong say. The answer is almost certainly yes, but you go while he has struggled a bunch. Maybe he doesn't struggle wall and so happens that he can also work under the gun really well, it doesn't like to do it, but yet, but it's an interesting It's like, I guess, what is it the aristotle we are? We repeatedly do. We are all we're all practicing something all the time, so I guess it's rates I guess that's a question I have, though I would love to ask, and we may be really need, is a inch certain

jobs. I mean obviously want to have preparation, always always, but certain things have like a degree of like entropy. the system and you go. I need to practice working under the gun and I'm not saying that's what I need to do just providing it should be. For the most part, it's a really sterile environment. The grand scheme of things like fighting in a cage is very sterile compared to most other things in life right but dangerous, but and unless, of course, like you know, like the other guy, the ref decides to hit you if she glares, but any way. I guess just going on okay. So what value do you get out of adding a degree of let's say you? be planned by someone else, but junk. the system and you'd have to work under the gun to make it happen, less safe transfer like police, or something like that, The situation turns left hard at some random point in time. That can happen to any number people, so I guess it's interesting things that allow for perfect planning or quasi, perfect planning versus things are inherently unstable.

and then what are the? What is the psychological fallout of comfort with that, because I think a lot of people that are really comfortable under the gun? Let it happen a lot, for all the good and the bad of that, does that make us know that to make sense, it was mean to his answer would be that you have to be honest with yourself and if it's valuable for the your success to practice being under the gun, and then you should schedule that China, he sort of issue plan that should systematically and then, as opposed, doing it have actually exists, as opposed to letting the environment choose the randomness. control the randomness to wear the optimize. It besides, if so, officially shocking, to see hear about it. Yeah now his easy then I am in the same way you are here tonight. In the same way, which is like he. He drops truth bombs. It's like yeah yeah, that's so true

Fear would probably comparably doing that. No heed this, but he's so he has professional requires as they use, second, just motivation speaker whenever he needs of computer software, a computer scientists and he needs. the long hours in the day of doing like serious math, so it's mostly math proofs, and for that you have to sit and think really deeply. It's like really hard work compared to like a most people do like the one. I am what I do like programming easier than rigorous math prosperity. After basically of this machine, and you have to your brain, to churn out logic, In a focused way, while visualizing a bunch of things in holding that in your brain and holding that for ten minutes, twenty minutes, hopefully several hours and you're not just like

doing homework. He doing totally novel stuff so like stuff that nobody's ever done before. So you keep running up against the wall of like fuck. This is a denon or no way is this a dead end and then that whole frustration that serious mental work. As like incredible, format the work. So he knows what he is talking about. Something amazing about laxity, easy, like this seems like a standard for the quality of work that he needs is so high. so how did almost anything less than this level of system adaptation and organization would preclude it right? He can't afford the kind of bullshit. That's why you would lead to suddenly. I do which is like last deadline can study, because you can't do that kind of work Last minute way, I'm gonna start so make my question human general is like and for you and eyes like well, here's these negative patterns that we do avoid do should last minute and so on this just for we are now or are there some

I don't think I'm really big into a free will, and I was thinking that it's mostly predestination death penalties in this regard. This is the same of the economy as well as long as it fits my. What? Whatever is the lazy thing to do I'll just I believe it I'm not a cameraman opportunist without a monopoly that opportunistic communist and capital. Just as the whatever is cool at the time, exactly I ask you to examine some fundamental principles of a petition. I think that your rogan brought to me several times on my off line, which is the he thinks that the tie that I wear ochre is One thing that makes me a vulnerable to attack that use should be it the day. He doesn't where tie is because he can get choke very easily with a tie. Split concern. Ok, my contention

and by the way he wore a suit last time too, You were on the password for dinner. Later there are worse the other day, and I I had no socks on. I didn't realize yet you're supposed to wear socks but yeah. This is my understanding. You wear a suit you're going to court I- and I did not know hey. I analyze just one of the play I wanted to pretend I was an adult for a day: okay, cool, so it's suit. My contention is like the jacket and everything is more dangerous. Then a tie is kind of where I was going with. It was kind of worried yeah. This was my first thought too, like if the once the tie becomes an issue like the authority in historian issue here, because the tide, now, without, like messing with analysis, is to me, has six some other similar problems that a belt does. Take for example, about you may be incorrect me, but I'm not sure you can use the belt as tide.

You know, I know, there's some kind of guards and probably utilised about with, but the boats, When is tied round the waist and refinement of belt belt or debo, as I give up our case, I give up important they ended up. Is it is not that great of a thing to use? In most cases I would say, because it slides, It was just that it doesn't. You can probably invent a few interesting ways: use it as leverages control and so on, but there's just so many more. things around europe there about pursued letter here, and so for me that I will do you realize what are we trying to sell it? do here and have some some widgets and bells and whistles that case, the belt is really important part of what we do and I would really encourage you guys to look into it if we're trying to actually like learn something and say you, like, you said we're surrounded by better options. Well, that's the thing. I mean that obvious to me that the belt, maybe

is actually undiscovered things about using the belt you, I think people views I like putting a foot inside the baltimore, inside to give out that some was a no punches sky. Grappling situation. Yes, okay! I guess I sort of fairly contrived right, but with punches too, I guess they're. Ok, let's! Let's talk about a street fight with a belt that the jeans belt, like a belt clothing, bulk? Okay, so I get to take it off and whipped him in the face with a bucket Just how serious the street fight every time I didn't I've more and not one of their studies area up or we talk in line all lego death like one. Oh, yes, the dye, oh yeah, well of all you ever like I'm in this situation, all the time and there's a reason. I'm still here. I just like I search our fight are tell you that his we're talking about power, differential yeah, beat up kids I'll just pick the easiest job he's got to get the easy w's you want to, but I'm undefeated come round the playground watch. What happens now like to the to the death? What is their clothing? That's useful.

for my part, would like to make four year used for their use. Both you see their use now like I like how you want to take the belt off and use the buckle to hit them with, but first of all, how are you going to take off that, like the belt, well, there's a lot of effort involved in and unclosing paul. I would. I wasn't figuring was when they started to see me. Take my pants off in the fight they really what they get a pause. Re. The situation for a second, yes, I'm making dead eye contact, auditions, so yeah exactly nodding, and then you know by the time they realize you took a belt off until you, whether you actually you're already one possibly two steps ahead of so fine, let's not by your uncle. Yes, I was there. ethic of their belgian home with a number? That's that's my heart. I'm not a question If you could do allow maintaining, I got a click.

It has come to this. There's all that, but the point is there's alternatives that are perhaps more effective. In the map perspective, this might be clueless, there's almost no clothing that is more effective than almost assuming the situation. No gi grappling like I feel I clothing particularly short at hitting, like everyone was almost our grabbing or close beside you sort. You start hating and selling nothing to work. But most The time, why am I not using my arms for something better than what I'm doing them right now, but it is very difficult for me to I don't know each other's justice is the gift. I can't imagine a case of different distances, even like situations. Where it's not talk about like like a situation where you haven't both yet agree that fires happening solid cloning, nice, if they ever on them causing oh yeah like some like a good jacket. Is you can snatch somebody on their face

refugee down that it you're not like. If you, if you took my like me, like a snap down judah like how easy this snapped out a beginner yeah. So I agree with the actual attire In that sense might be really effective way to snap down, so that this now there's really powerful to change the like destroy the situation and give you a lot of different opportunities for now taken their back to get down to an hilarious stuff like snap and now is the time to your knee and then when they come back up this authority Sophia. In that sense I agree, but not as a choking it is because the Joe had isn't choke. I think you'd, probably choke me with your time more easily make a joke you with your problem, I'm serious cause like if you get you can get like you get my back and you can put around somebody's neck. You know like a like a it gives you a die hard, yeah yeah, you remember when win the super swedish looking blonde dude or whatever was was trying to choke bruce willis with the eye with the chain, and then he ended up getting choked himself with chain. If I recall this properly, but anyway yeah

like that, but I feel like a feeling official grabbing your tie, you have too many other great options are you. I do like this that on the EU actually means I do not think you have again. There was that I think you're on the right path with it. It was not that particular, if you start with like one of these, like you know like, like you, like poetry, figure, my chest and then snap down real, quick or yeah cause it it also, socially speaking, it's not a threatening thing to you know to to reach for the tie. That is not particularly like a business setting. Then there were sickening yeah cause. I was thinking choke, but as not it, it's a really good leverage point cause like grabbing a jacket. The jacket will slide. If you try to snap, do you really have to get a hole like a really good hold that for cars around the back neck or what? If it's clip on how much of a jackass if I just feel like, and then they just yet sticky one. But you see the japanese politician or my things than the other She was the cars, so he was so common cool hand like there was every it was beautiful technique.

Though the level of of actually the throw us even gentle, but I was perfectly may well executed. more of our politicians tossed the shit out of jail anymore, teddy, roosevelt exactly. I, like our politicians like talking about fighting when it's clear that none of them, even it, would ever been in a fight ever yeah. Somebody was saying teddy Roosevelt was interesting. I didn't realize this as he's one of the greatest presidents this country's had and he was one of the greatest presidents, even though he faced no crisis whatsoever. He literally willed himself, like nothing happened during his presidency, he's just a bad mother, fuck or who made really great speeches like you know. This made me realize he's talking to restoring that, like most of the people we think a great need also good crisis, that they've that reveal their greatness, but molly right mohammed Ali in sports, but

But you know what I mean like the circumstances. What is greatness, and I mean it's like you- have to it's, not just your capacity, it's what you, what you face rights equality. Opposition circumstance which overcome? So I guess saying jargon is wrong about the thai thing: you're not gonna, go the forest scene is wrong. I you know the man's I here to defend himself. Maybe he has some things that I'm not understanding him when he has not deeply thought. This is my main criticism of Joe's, not deeply thought to this, and A journalist will be like rhine hall, says, jargon is wrong and hates ties and haste ties will integrate hit the back, no somehow nice, what sir he's talking about greatness and greatness, requiring a difficult moment in time. It can you like referred back and think what our summit the hardest, if not the hardest thing you've ever had to do in your life. Well, you know a thing of how to put a bunch of things I've got a lot of things. Let go my way. They have been incredibly fortunate if, at all

things come away also butter. leaving leading team on urban two thousand eight, which I firmly believe was the right thing to do? is one of the ah. That was very difficult at the time, not I'd like not a difficult choice, but it was because of why was leaving but psychologically personal, Thus, in general, leaving yeah, I'm a family, all kinds doesn't know what the circumstances I didn't lose any friends when I lost a lot of people. I thought my friend I I lost, training I lost there. I also had like a really serious. My wrist only does that so, like I had a really serious a wrist surgery like that. I didn't know if I was going to compete anymore after that I just got my brown belt. That was a it was a tough time guy psychologically physically everything, but I was very motivated to do my best and to push through it and to his to carry on in a positive direction, no matter what in a different direction, and we

only that this thing or family, even if this an abuse of family leaving its tough people complicated, and even people that I that I dont think very well of that. I think, on the whole I dont think very well of its is unfair to paint them with one brush. I get August is greater in and lesser examples of that. Like a person, we discussed last time whose infinitely in beyond almost any one that we can ever imagined meeting in our own personal lives. There ll be all over the insurers of forgiveness and hate am induce jeff hate in your heart for four people you pass. No, no, in that process no mean there were definitely times when been not negatively, motivated to prove people raw, in order to accomplish things by think that some of that, is valuable, if only line, if I felt differently, I think particularly I do really well in conflict

especially without the usual deadline. Thing I'm useless. Yeah, I'm used to chaos, I'm usually I do I'm used to certain antagonist. I like fighting. I like competition. I like being pushed I like feeling like, if I don't play well, I'm going to get hurt, I have no choice but to play well or play with everything I got at the very least, and I guess I would say it you know, as I've gotten you no more time and in a little bit longer you see you now very sick patients fora, Pino ina wit with increased incur collar. I guess I would say increased clarity, and you know there are a lot lessons to be learned even from from times in history or bad experience we have in the question is: can we take those lessons and move forward and that's again one I think we're seeing in sometimes socially right now we're forgetting important lessons of the past and that's not good night saying hey, I don't get why we why we should be going in this direction that I understand entirely but hey, let's not forget the less

so in order to learn them again because it doesn't they serve anybody. And anyway, I guess I would say I am thankful for all of the experiences difficult than others most difficult. Honestly, most of the time, I remember I'm thankful for every lawson red tickled, the tough ones I am thankful for You know for all the relationship of the many people who taught me many things he attended, teach them anything, some of whom are still some of my closest friends, some of whom are people I really don't get along with at all, and some of whom are people, I think, really poorly. others, not many that last group, but I guess say, is that this has been a lot of things, opportunities to learn, and you know throughout that, and also it's not as if I've never done made many mistakes myself. Now again there. There magnitude differences. I like to think- and I indefinitely say that none of the mistakes that have ever made have been mistakes of intention in our schools. a lot of things in my life, but I can confidently in any We say that I've never had ill intent towards people as I've done it. Some sit there and like menaces. The writing is writing, and sometimes I've been wrong.

But you know you never set out with malicious intent, and I think that when I find that I think people do things differently. When I do think that there is malicious intent, I have I've a difficult unforgiving that how does love when overheat? in this world. We're talk about social media will talk about forgiveness. of some of the more complicated people in your pass. If we scale to the entire world. before the air destroys us and though the human race is lost to history, How do you think love wins over hey? Well, I'd like to preface this by saying: I try to make pancakes the other day. Yes didn't work, but I'm happy to comment on this, so basically a while. I I think, like I think, most of the times that the

I can think of that. I've struggled you know it sir, and can in the times that I've read about his being honoured, what to see the humanity and other people, and also even in sometimes our enemies and the people that have done awful things and you go What would allow people to do this, that of the other and that doesn't forgive what they ve done depending upon some things are forgive or something to less, so but you won't understand wise to our knowledge demons, don't populate our world. Neither do like lit well angels, walking around being actually perfect a lot at times. The things that its I find it deeply amusing watching. You know, people hoisted by their own baton, on twitter, even though its gross- and it's really unproductive- it's actually like equal parts amusing, unlike awful because you're, not not happy that someone's being raked over the coals, particularly unjustifiably, but this funny, when it's the Zack same thing: they were raking others over the calls for not like a week or two prior, and that's happened repeatedly and working Can you to happen, and I guess I would say

As you mentioned, the you know a prior. You know like a recognition of the humanity of others, of that all of us make mistakes that it's difficult to understand. Intention I've had arguments of close friends of mine over text. Message for both of us ended up super pissed because we were completely misreading what that hold the intention of what the other person's doing and even if I was reading it correctly, which I wasn't it so easy to ascribe the most negative possible either the least charitable assessment of what they're doing, and I think that that such a dangerous way to live your life and it's also just a fruitless way to live your life. You know it's one and to go hey. Why did you do that? I was pissed. Did you? What did you do you just do that to make yourself feel better, make a damn right at that and. if I stand that plenty of times, while if you had a good life, I said that I didn't you know. Why did? Why? Did you punch that guy in the face he was going crazy at me and hit me, and I asked him

stop and then I gave warning and I'd put him on his ass, like no, I'm not sorry, but then looking back now with years to sit on him like to understand why I did what I did absolutely what I like to respond differently now, yeah, would you know it ended? Doesn't mean that I think plenty of things the people do are understandable, doesn't mean understandable, doesn't mean career. it understandable doesn't mean that you go yet that's great guy. I could see someone doing such a thing, but I guess just wreckage. and understand and see the humanity and others, because if I can't the humanity and others. How can I see it myself and also Do you know how am I meant interact with one, as you said, whether we know, even if we're in a society of individuals for at least for the time being, hopefully you know in perpetuity who we still together as a whole and watching weird, like you said it's it's. If I only ask why wants a star with. Stay out of my way. I'll stay out of yours. Leave me the fuck alone, you're like okay, that's fine, ryan, but that's easy

say living in a society that doesn't actually function like that, so it's a little bit cheap. But if I recognise that that's step, one is idle. Hurt you- and you know her me, but then we go what, but how can I help you that step two and then it goes. We ve beyond that in LA for them. I thought about it, but I guess what I would just say is again recognition of the humanity and others and that we all have different strengths. We differently, this, isn't it and can never really be sure the other persons coming from. But if we approach things charitably is charitably was was we hope others would approach us. I think will do a lot better, and I guess one thing that I read that I like that I thought was accurate and unfortunately, disappointing was every one is a great. You know, jury are great lawyer for themselves, lawyer, a judge for others and for others, a audacity, lloyd, alive life, universe and understandable one year they were always leaping- that is the right way to live yeah being costly. Judgmental yourself and

I defender of others and that results ultimately in interaction that deescalate vs escalates right here and you can you can we can all live in a world like that, and sometimes you're like hey man, people that deserve punishment won't get it like. Okay, hey what is it better to have a ten guilty people go free than one innocent person in a burn and ultimately that is, I think that is a better world than the other way around and defined fails? I join the team they, both the air that kills all humans, you're, obviously if you have to be on a team pick, the winning team, once it has been the assessment, hiring paycheck shows a good hiring pitch he'll. Take erasmus, you beyond the team that doesn't die during the great apocalypse. immediately. You want to be on the one that fits. You know eventually long suffering and stepped on right. Yeah life is suffering right ha. This was an amazing

conversation I really enjoy talking to. I could probably talk to you for many more hours. I hope I do as well ryan. I love you buddy. This is great conversation thanks for talking to like similar to me. I really appreciate it thanks for listening to this conversation from ryan hall and thank you to our sponsors. Indeed, hiring website, audible, audiobooks, express vpn and element electrolyte, drink click, the sponsor links to get a discount and to support this podcast. And now let me leave you with some words from frank herbert in dune. I must not fear fear, is the mind. Killer. Fear is the little death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permitted to pass over me through me and when it has gone past, I will turn the inner eye to see its path where the fear, gone. There will be nothing only. I will remain thank you for listening and hope to see you next time,

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