February, seventeenth and eighteenth. I will be at levity: live in Oxnard California, and marched. Third, I'm gonna, be it the car theatre at the empty em in LAS Vegas and then on April twentieth for twenty two shows in Portland. First one sold out at the Arlene she knit Sir Concert all This episode of podcast is brought is brought to you by movement, watches you wanna slick watch and you don't want to pay a fuckload money, but you want to watch. It looks like you paid a fuck money, most atomic buying things, and we found this out about so many different products on the internet. You you're paying retail middle man money, there's a lot of work, If you buy something, it's x amount of money huh. What percentage of that goes to the fact that they have to say in a store they have to leave a big ass bill. Higher salespeople all that shit all its?

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Yes, my Lord put up onto are you doing I'm doing good. Now that we're actually live. She feels more formal, we're just talk about crazy. Some of the people and Brian counts passion. What does the like do in his show? Man? You, you guys you like cars, you keep them on the level. Well, yes, I mean what happened. Was that a couple of years ago, brain and I were talking about books and brain- had just started doing his podcast at that point, and I you know you sort of interviewing strippers lot of strippers or like porn stars or like you know, Mme Guys, and that is fine, but you know I was like Brian. If you enjoy these books so much, why don't we get on some of these professors? And he was like really like prefer This would talk to me and I said: well, you know what your download numbers- and you know he told me them- I went off and I like the professors and link, doubled or tripled them area. So do it, and then you know,

the result they were all like. That's great cause. If you are a New York Times best selling author, you usually have an audience of three and so a chance to like actually reach a decent number. People than yeah you're gonna come on this weird podcast, your like I've heard of podcasting. What is that? Why not right- and so we started getting all of these professors and academics and scientists and all that stuff on, and you know that sort of being the journey and were now two hundred plus episode, then yeah, that's Brian loves that kind of stuff, but I was so like. How can we never talk about that on stage? He just wants to be captain silly face age. If we're Joe, are we willing to wandering dark dark place that is Brian Cowen, mind dark place. Yeah. Are we You too, you ready, go their job in their don't get my member, so I mean a lot of it comes down to Brien's own personal insecurities like he loves it, but he does. It feel confident engaging with him

I wish they disagree with that. I would say that he's just his comedy. He prefers to be silly. You know because, like there's a differ, dream cavity in mind Brien's mine, especially between what's really funny and what's really deep right. You know he doesn't find deep things to be very fond he's not he doesn't mean he's when he gets into deep subjects he Qana gets into them just for what they are and not like tries to translate those in the comedy. Yes, I make sense, it does make sense, I mean, but part of what I've seen across the course. You know these two hundred episodes think that Brian Cowen is growing. Finally, like whatever eighty is there at five hundred and fifty five there is tomorrow, yeah there's the new starting to be in evolution and part of it is just sort of having actually talk to some of the smartest people in the world. He's like all these are,

people, and you know they know certain ideas that I didn't know and now I know them, and you know maybe I can and has even started experimenting with. You particularly got really excited. We had a guy called Joe Henrik on who wrote this great book called the secret of our success, which is all about cultural evolution, how cultural evolution works and what things he talks about in their? Is you know? Why do we have black people? Why do we have white people? And you know it comes down to vitamin d in full. Late all these allegations, vitamin where you ve. I remain honest. I shall allow spent a lot of time in England and they got rid of most of my act, but there are weird were in the country like vitamin and bein, and so sometimes people think I'm canadian, which let us not because they literally can't place it. Besides story, when I was when I first went to college, you know I wanted to major linguistics for a while, and I met with my linguistics professor, and he sits me down and we're having a conversation just like this and then all of a sudden. He stops me.

Just like you didn't, and he says, wait a minute and he proceeded to like asked me. This really fucking bizarre questions like he's like, if you and Jane or in a race and John comes fifth and Jane comes and afterwards what position does Jane come in and I was like. Sixth and he goes british receipts alike to all of these tasks to basically spot my accident. Sixth, sixth, there's no asses yeah yeah. It's super weird and ethnic met. Such is the other one. They don't say medicine, they say Madsen, ah, sir, by sick wow. That's interesting! That's interesting, because the sound is really a k and then an area even though we representatives and acts so he basically had, although these tests- and he figured out pretty quickly that I was trying to passes in America, like sorry white boy, not so much. How long did you live in England for ten years, ten years till your ten from the age of eight, until eight tokay,

so if you were in England, so you started out without adding Saxo YAP by its. So you learned English here and then When you started speaking in England, did you sense that you are shifting overturning while and I sort of fine I fought? It ran his gazetted. What happens is that people naturally sort of start to you know you're in a tribe, and you start to like up the values and the speech patterns in all its four to suffer the tribe, and you know I really thought of myself as american enlargement. Because I identify with my mom more than my dad, and so what happened was that you know I was like a british and creeping in, and so I bought that with everything that I could, but in spite of fighting the acts it with everything, I could these words lit, like being and vitamin and medicine and sick that I wasn't watching for that. No ordinary person would watch for crept into my mind. Is always interesting to me. There's an added insight that you get from people that come from

another country and then live in America. There's something different about like oh guys aren't know how weird this fuckin place. Guy now I've been Scotland, I live there. You know, like those people, have a different insight. Very different insight. Also, I think We are so established in America in in so far as thinking that this is how people live in the world, I is where you go. You go to bear gang it's right over there. You get on the highway its right to be here and we see, our landscape and we see our cityscapes and we see it as being normal. If you don't go to another country, We don't go all this is normal to normal for them all this

over them, the others. You really need to be there and, I think, that's another- does absorb a bull from a dvd. No Anne and part of it is a mean. This is a large part of what we ve been doing and what Joe Hendricks work is about is the fact that you know when you're in a tribe, whatever that tribe is whether its America or Christianity or Mormonism or is law more Minos, some popular guinean in the foothills of you know Papa Guinea, whatever you do you're like that's our way, that's just the way things are done. You dont question it right. The tribe creates the sense that this is what normalcy is and then the second you go outside the tribe, whatever that tribe is you're suddenly, like all our tribe is fuckin we.

There are other ways of doing things and that that sort of being a large part of like the experience it Brian I had growing up because Brien's dad was my dad's boss. That's I've in the first place that I went after I was born in Saudi Arabia. Was Brian's House like that. While I went to Brien's house and so for the last you know and then we moved around and we moved to different places. He did you know the Philippines Reno whatever, whenever wherever I did, Saudi Arabia, Greece, Brazil, England. Now my parents mute France and Libya and the USA, and then I came to the U S so so. Moving constantly between tribes, like that was a large part of my experience growing up the kid was, I was constantly like people are all the same and yet they're fucking different, and how does that work? And because I come from the background of science, my first response was like a while. There must be science of

this right, why not go and look at that science and see what the science says about that turns out? There is a massive amount of science all about it. Yeah there's a massive amount of science all about in itself, fascinating when you stop and think that there are some people on I'm sure you ve seen the most recent photos of that uncontacted tribes now contacted seriously in the Amazon like really recently over the last couple? We know it's amazing, yeah, really cool. I mean these people were there, they don't have american Sometimes a sea like these tribes, their deep in the Amazon with them like a cook satellite get their ears. Some sort of interaction with these people. There's none there's been no interaction with the west. They have stick bows. They have made and the other all barefoot now wearing leaves and shit. It's you know, then, these people very here they are trotted along two thousand seventeen, and here I think,

fifty sixty thousand years ago, they probably reliving exactly the same way you up and the woods fascinating, is just the degree to which those people have so much to teach us cuz. You know a lot of what happened you know in the beginning of the enlightenment. Is that you know if you look at Lock and Rousseau and all these guys they're trying to imagine the state of nature, but their group of people who are sitting around in Europe. It never met somebody from the Amazon or someone, from Papua New Guinea, and now we really have a pretty good idea of what what was life like before civilization and and its I mean it's pretty, damn fascinating, chaired diamond. Has this great book the word

until yesterday, which is literally all about life before civilization and water, the things that we can learn as moderns from these people. What are the things they get right that we get wrong. But what was his examples? Well, he has there's a bunch of interesting ones when my favorite ones is constructive paranoia. So what happens when you have tribes people and they go outside of their village, suddenly become massively paranoid like incredibly paranoid and he's like you know, these people are more paranoid than your average New York Jus right, like suddenly, wandering around the forests and their like shit. Is this tree gonna fall down? Where can we sleep like they go and they checked the trees? They look for footprints? Oh, my god are those the footprints of vetoes, some other tribe like what's going on? What does that sound and he's like what is this paranoia about for a long time? He thought this paranoid paranoia was just miss place that it was an appropriate, but then he had this experience where he had a couple of experiences, one,

which was around, you know somebody some other tried that was potentially trying to kill him in Papua New Guinea and then the other one was around. He, basically, you know, is getting on this boat and you know if you're in the west and you get on a boat at the New York Port Authority or whenever you feel like this boat safe, like there are safety rules. Probably someone would check it whatever. So he gets on this boat boat goes out into the ocean, unlike cap sizes and sinks, and he almost on to death and its basically because these kids, who are running the boat, were running it way too fast and the water kept sloshing over the side and high ways and a certain point, there's so much water in the boat that the boat goes down these and you know when you're in that kind of environment, one of these societies that doesn't have protections and doesn't have rules and all its were stuff being paranoid, a super smart, it's the most appropriate thing you can do and he then talks How you know he's in seventy eight year old man he's like. I need to be more paranoid because the right

quality is. If I go down, it's probably because I slip in the shower you, there are all these things that can actually kill me in my environment that I sort of take for granted, because my world seem so safe and so one of the things you learn from that is. Is that paranoia as a tool and run other than a lot of people have trouble with paranoia where their indiscriminately paranoid, but the key is figuring out what to be paranoid about when to be paranoid, so that your hyper alarm, alert to threats or totally make sense, yeah mean that their vote vulnerable there, so soft and fleshy most of their bodies exposed in and around all sorts of different poisonous. They and predatory things, cats and dogs and spy there is and what the hell's out there and if you break a leg in the jungle on your done there and that's the point as they don't have the luxury of oh, I was you know not paying attention and cross that I dropped a barbarian. My foot I go to the doctor, I'm out for a few months now deal yeah shorter life

doesn't seem like nearly is fun. If one of the interesting thing is that in many ways it is actually more fun because they have such a strong, like you know, part of what we don't have an obviously part of what your creating with your podcast in what we are trying to create on a smaller level with our podcast is tribe. Right, like we, you know a strong sense of community a group of people that you belong with. You know you're at in it together all of that sort of stuff- and you know American. He critically talks about the elderly in only talks about what is the experience of the elderly in a tribe, and you know you're super valuable until death, everybody respects the shit out of you. You always have things to contribute to a tribe. What do we do with out the elderly hearing? Stick em in a fucking old persons home and leave him to write no, they don't have that sense of belonging to a sense of purpose. Late in life. Do you think that's a sheer volume thing: it's almost like we dont value life as much because we're overwhelmed by it rightly we're talking to the last point: cast about the number of people in America today, verses when I was a kid yet

was fourteen. There was we figured. There was two hundred and thirty two. Was it twenty five to twenty five million? Now there's a hundred million plus more just sheer vote seems like if we live in a small town- and there was some guy that we know we really loved and he was starting to die, would want to take care of them right. But if it's that cry, ass, all its down the hallway, your apartment, building in every behalf too, that dude, because there's a thousand people in your apartment, building that you never talk to write well part part of it is at the ingenuous there's, what's called the Dunbar number and the Dunbar number. You know it's like ones the Dunbar number and the Dunbar number. You know it's like one to fifty one fifty and then there are serious to explain that without, as for people haven't heard the assets, it's very simple aid that the easiest way to understand it as Facebook. Right like you, may have four thousand friends on Facebook. But then you constantly find like who

fuck. Are these people that I friend it in some sort of like rending phrase almost like a song yet work now, hopefully not hurt you're pretty bad? I think that if things go take up, but you you find that, like Oh, I only really know a few of these people, the majority of them. My brain can track right and you even get into that experience. Like that's what I always find fascinating. You run into someone you haven't seen in a long time right on the street and your kind of a voice, the interaction monsieur le. We are therefore going to ask for a year, and you also, then, if you like really get into it, then you have to like dust off the relationship. We have to invest, fucking, exhausting right. So there's There is real limit to like how many people any one human brain can handle, isn't it more sort of like the top nine, on my space where we might think it wasn't nine and visit, and I and people yeah when were you ever top nine and laugh those those people the euro pretty with yet have you boys, friends, the top nine? Will there

There's a series of dumb low numbers right in and there's like you know, there's essentially like two or three people who are like you would tell anything to write and then their sort of, like your top nine right, you're sort of like We're cool we can all go hang out. If I was gonna have a bachelor party. These are the people I would invite, ran, and then you know you sort of get onto larger and larger circles. One fifty is sort of the size of a tribe, but then you know even though there is one fifty there's? No, whatever four thousand people, five thousand people whose, like you'd, recognise their face, like an old, totally fucking, know you yeah yeah, so there's there's a series of all these things, but whatever the numbers are it's not seven billion clothes yeah. What's what s interesting about small towns there's a theirs and a feeling in small towns, of an invasion invasion of your privacy who, as much as there is a feeling of camaraderie, there's also a god, knows Venus yeah. So like we there's, two thousand people

living in an apartment building? Nobody wants no shit about any yeah, but if it's two thousand people living in a town, that's the whole town and everybody needs to know everything about everybody else that, but that The boy period ends up, and what about that? Brian Cowen always whack. You want I would ask everyone and exchange information were an and gossip is what Dunbar as work is really about. So his big book is grooming, gossip and the origins of language, and so Dunbar's whole thesis is. The big question is always being like. Why do we talk right like wider humans have language? What is the function of language and what Dunbar did was he basically looked at? What's the natural group size of different primates right, so you know, there's a natural group size for apes fortune pansies and you know or

and hands and all this for the stuff, and what ends is happening is that when you, if you're chimps right, you know you can groom all the members of your tour of your troop right. That's not a big problem, but if you're troop is a hundred fifty people like it is for humans. There's no way you can physically groom all of those people so becomes too many people- physically groom, so essentially the ideas that language is how we groom each other without having to do it physically and that's what gossip is about. It's really, that were alike, rooming, each other where maintaining social relationships and were trading infirm. Nation about whose trustworthy who's not trustworthy. Who did what too, who and passing information around in the tribe, a total make sense, yeah made, seems also when you think about how women are really into Gaza being chatting words. Men really appreciate quiet and then get up people to flashy young. It's about men, going off in a hunting parties right up in the women's.

Back in going this crazy motherfuckers known when no one is going to have to try to assess what the dangers are: their environments, yep and specifically men like you're, saying about like making sure that nobody is getting to flashing. That's I mean you, that's a real function of teasing right. The real function of teasing is, is that you know if you look at these hundred gather tribes, who have all these mechanisms for making sure that nobody's head gets to back right. So, for example, you know little do things where, for example, I'll give you my arrow and you'll go hunt with my arrow. So then, even if you kill a dear, it's actually not your kill, because it was done with my arrow. It's everywhere everybody's kill so and then also you know when they, for example, they have all these rituals. When someone is elected, the big man of the tribe or whatever it is, they will then all the we'll get around and make fun of him right, no sort of humiliate him and it's a sort of proto democracy. Its away of like keeping him

his ego in check. So this is what Doll Travers, avoiding the exact. This is his hands, avoiding this inevitable reality of being marked so mad it out Baldwin will any should he should embrace it. I mean that's right. He should because I mean that its that's. If for his social function right, the leader social function is to be humble rain, because we? U no power, corrupts like that's what it does you human psychology? That's enough! Donald Trump. That's just a function of the human brain right, and you know that we we know that mean that's. You know, that's being studied now, there's a guy at Burke. Add you see Berkeley Dagger counter whose also awesome, whose studied power- and specifically you know, there's this old quote from Lord ACT and power corrupts absolute power corrupts absolutely. He went and studied that and he got more specific and he found out the paradise to things that makes people more impulsive and it makes them less sympathetic. So it makes people good impulsive and bad impulsive in the sense that you'll have celebrity

it will be like I'm, given away all my fuckin money, your life, outspoken, dumb or like Wesley's nights had that great idea, like I'm just gonna, do not pay taxes writing in his defence and he just got one those wacky attorney general. There some loophole in the constitution. They don't want this constitution loopholes, will the Mattel something that they found out and no one has to pay. Taxes will make goes down. People there's a lot of people who actually had a conversation with me. Oh you're telling me that you don't have to pay taxes and that the cost She says that in time we supposed to pay. Taxes is during war and that's when they came up with fair taxes in the first place and it's not legal, that's why they can't really charge with it. If you just resist like bitch, they will put you in it. Take all your money and they put you in a cage up where there is a war. Time, there's two really fascinating thing: it comes to money. That's really fascinating! One is that if you do don't they

your taxes is one of those debts where it doesn't matter. You go to fucking J like you, jail, jelly, take everything you have they not! Even if you have no ability to pay it. When you get out, you still owe it whom you go to jail. That's fascinating Just pay just pay it off its knowledge. Oh you owed fifty thousand hours back taxes, no You fuckin lied to us about paying money. So now you go to jail, you weren't honest, so it's not just you all the money. Now you pay it now you're clean, not gonna. Let you go to jail. We take all your money and you get out- and you had made my along time and now you gotta get back on their feet and fuck you, yes fuck, you and the other time the peers, you as student loans, so one thing that you can't fucking go bankrupt, wealth, that's it horrible death the worst idea ever saddled down young impulsive children who are just getting out of there parents grasp saddle, I'm down with debt and then have them entering. To a diminishing job market? If you start off some

in two thousand sixteen point of the fucking odds, especially with tech related that anything he learns gotta be applicable in four years. Well, I mean, if you want to talk about the universities, some I mean you know, there's this there's a ship that is sinking pretty, damn fastened a whole lot of that. Yet having Jordan Peterson on your podcast, you guys before I had a mind and I've been paying attention to his work for a long time one of the few people that are out standing out there in the river scream. You know I mean that's. What he's doing is like this is you guys are. This is madness that, right, you guys are being honest about things here. Did you see this recent thing women's March, who was in the New York Times near separating the women by color and white women, being told to check their privilege yeah in this march, whereas it is undermining shuns privilege, we're gonna, find a c. I put it up on my twitter, pull it because it's fucking hilarious- and this is some fringe newspaper that our times printing this and

Michael Shermer posted it women's I on Washington opens contentious dialogues about let's does the war was the headline that was on my twitter thing about. It is at the house lights. Hilarious link. It, what Shermer said to pray just racism. Now dividing women by skin color. Whites told to check your privilege get the fuck out of here and that's why you were talking about with power and power corrupting that is power. That's one thing: that's going on with this social justice. Worry movement is not just people decide saying that some people should be more ethical or kind or loving are open a progressive, not enough. It's exert said giant problem. That's what Jordan Peterson's fighting well in its the power of a just cause. Right, ok, you're, fighting racism, you're fighting sexism like these are things to fight. I am I'm all down with you, but the the fact that

these are things to fight I'm all down with you, but the the fact that you know if, if you have any problem with it right, Jordan Petersen takes issue Of course, no less. I saying that and as the stupid game they play exactly, they try to paint you into a corner in Slovenia, asleep no less. I saying that in that the stupid game that they play exactly, they try to paint you into a corner in seriously with their opening stay, and while you're a big it. So in all Ahmed Egg, What's really going because we disagree on things, I'm a big it yeah and if you look it I mean I led the argument, I think critically about pronouns. It really comes down to a linguistic one in the sense that you know words or tools right, and so, if you look, if you want to talk about pronouns, look at English in the timing expire right. They had this. This thing vow right whose another pronoun, and then they got the fuck rid of it right, and why do they

read of it because there are like man doesn't really add any signs good. When you say to thine cells, Algeria sounds pansy, but it's not. It doesn't practically add anything right right though it was, it was it's the same thing as the romance languages were the distinction between formal and informal you an essentially we decided. We didn't need that distinction so that pronoun dropped away and in general, that's what has happened over time. That's a big part of new Joe Hendricks work is that land simplifies over time. The tools become more and more powerful and more refined in the same way that say a stone tools, You see the early stone tools there shit and then over time they get more and more elegant and more refined. The same thing has been happening with language for the entirety of human history. They get whittled down. So what the fuck do? You think happens if you introduce seventy gender pronouns? Well, you might equality in my fuckin raises three hundred pieces shall share,

forget it you I've, that's problem shows for guys like us. We have so much privilege like we're gonna, be there like checking it s like half an hour and well are you did he have we have to even out the world that we do? The world must be evened out, so there is no more petition by the way, which is one of the more hilarious people that actually think that their communist just shut, your mouth, but if you are and he's really do subscribes, I guarantee you not contributing healing, while as hip Is that always once we d never bring some come on man. That's all share about. You bring your own, we you forgot, They never have it right. That's the communist people that we really into the idea of communism and on theory. Everybody sharing and not worrying about money, though, be great clues The three of us through the only people in the world is my example it I would love to use if those are three, us, and there is like three million dollars in the world and we also bold sawdust split it up like and then money won't be nothing just. What is trade back and forth, and everything should be even ok, cool and we'd be fine with that

Can we go on about our Mary way, but there's too many fucking people and is inevitably get him? It's gonna be some form of competition and in some form, competition. Some people get out ahead and it's gonna be some people that are upset that people are ahead. We all sorts of reasons some people going to be at their head, because our assholes some people going to bed because dig it up five o clock in the morning? While you sleep too fuckin noon, that's to these are all some people that are totally ethical and they just do a lot of work and do better yeah they're going to do. Better. They didn't steal from anybody, didn't hurt anybody up, but this narrative keeps getting repeated by people who don't get up at seven o clock in the morning or don't have the same kind of ambition or feel bad, because some people do want to fuck private jet and fly all over the world and ball again. Those areas is all these things are true. I mean it's it's both things. It's like you can be in.

Legal person and be like a super. Ambitious crazy person wants to succeed in business for some reason there not mutually exclusive. No, so when everybody says capitalism is evil. If the problem man no no you saying that is a problem: it's not a problem. The whole reason when you have a fucking laptop to complain on is because of capitalism right and the point is that the the lesson of twenty sixteen is that there are a lot of shit ideas out there and there should ideas spread all around the political spectrum right here and there. I think the challenge of twenty seventeen is: how do we kill those ideas, but also in the defence of the people there anti corporate anti corporation. There is an issue when these own gigantic groups get together in their own me, they're only Motivation is coring more money every year right that does become a problem and then there's a defeat. No responsibility when you're a locked into that giant system? And yours, The middle manager of some Exxon group that fuckin, kill and seals, and you know give a shit in all those portion

Why are they live in the art of getting its world? Oil is stupid. Forgets videos covered under the oil, you know I'm yet it becomes that right. It becomes you're. Just apart the saying but look out and be w drives itself guy we get out. Hamptons everybody's happy and that's problem do so. There's there's two problems: there's this well, there's a million of them. Yet that's that is a problem with money too. It's like might there the issue might be corporations in itself might be a problem like like that is a power thing like your target. An absolute power will look. The problem is not power per se, its unchecked power right right,

and so I mean the founding fathers- understood that that's why you had you, no checks and balances, and the problem is: is that a lot of the checks and balances on you? No intellectuals right what's happening at universities, have broken down right and then checks on corporations which is government right, is broken down, and the check on government is the people and it's broken down, and so what's happened? Is it a lot of the checks and balances have failed in the ultimate check and balances the people but the problem is that you can't get the wisdom of crowds if the crowd is unwise and it's not real big brown eleven and sell goods statement and that the problem is that a large part of this disease or large historical forces, namely specialization. So you know, if we get, you know the three hundred million people in him. It's not that everybody's is an idiot right. It's that, oh, your lawyer and you know the law and you know nothing else, right or You are a teacher and you know your subject. You know history, you know whatever right or if you go and

academia and you talk to a bunch of scientists. You'll find. Oh, you know your sub discipline of psychology of biology of chemistry, of whatever and literally nothing else that is happening in science. So the problem is that when that happens is if you look at the founding father, they they read really really widely, and No. I was recently involved in intellectual dispute with some libertarians right, and so I went to libertarianism dot org just run by. Cato Institute, mosey intellectual dispute. Regarding so might the big beef that I've been taking as with fundamentalists across the board across the board? I dont really

the care. I don't really care what kind of fundamentalist you are. I have an issue with fundamentalism in general and if you look at what you were just doing Joe is is that you were able to hold two contradictory thoughts in your mind. Right, I think, is important. Rans incredibly important. You are able to say there is a problem with people who oppose capitalism and there is a problem with much of what corporations are doing and then that's how you know you start to figure out. Reality is your like! Oh fuck there, these two opposing things. How do I reconcile them and you have to go around? thank you to read your talk? People you have to do all that herself. Fundamentalists are burdened with that problem. They have a much easier time because they know that they are the good guys. They know that their is one thing that is the answer to all of our problems and that there is one thing that is bad and whatever that bad thing is that we can just get rid of that bad thing than all of our problems will be solved

and then they go about figuring out how to strip away more and more and more of that bad thing right. So you look at the obvious example. Is islamic fundamentalism there like it's the way of the prophet? We just have to live the way of the prophet Mohammed, and so then we have to strip out anything that interferes with that like toothbrush and kites and women's education where driving raggedly only problematic things right, and you know it's not that the prophet Mohammed didn't have a toothbrush. It was just a stick toothbrush and you know I'm not. Dentist, but I think that an oral b is better than a stick to domestic here. They had like sticks, though, that we're like bristled the end or something, and they would break up the stick. Men, Vienna just get that stick in their yeah, mostly used today to this day. Well, if you send to summon moms yeah wow I go super super deep yeah. Well, exactly that's the point, it is always about going super super deep and it is not the case with Christianity and all religions. That is there's people that are just you know I kind of like

zero Christians is unusual that are casual Muslims and then this we were there. The whole hog, that's rain, think that does the reckonings coming. Jesus is on his way and that's right, better pack, your bags, because you got any clothes and haven't like these people that are packed and ready for Jesus, take them away, and those people give the rest of Christine and here the rest of his long bad name, but they also give us amazing, movies behind and left behind the two of you seen them with their current Cameron's greatest work. They are good and radical work of comedy that he didn't know was comedy. While you may go dude, it's so bad. Have you seen it left behind and left by two? It's so good. I bought it on many tests. I sought at Walmart. Snatched it up like a greedy child. I'm gonna write this last year I left by two I'm sure we can probably get it on like I too, or should I say this on Itunes or netflix- find out where people can watch because it's fucking,

unbelievable that you tube Amazon Video work Ass, an It was based on these cataclysmic books. There were written by these loony tune. Dude. Is it one loony to induce her to loony to induce that road? The left behind series he's christian Gus the way they ve sold like a hundred million copies of the delicate shit, so dark about me, yeah, what's up to get to Guys- but I might have here and second, each other off and I made the gay don't get mad gay man, don't soom Amsterdam, books, amazing books, there were still a very bad thing. You know I'm gonna, be I'm never forget some of Kurt Cameron's best, one that growing pains as best work is avoiding digs. How is this it? Oh wow, it's amazing others, but the system

yeah. This is kind of a tiger for the fact that this is made in two thousand and that's a cinematography, like that's, really impressive. Adorable he's adorable religious. Have you seen the one? We are re comfort whose his body in all these videos describes. Banana as an atheist work. Worse now, are we how wonderful that amazing outlets, which one Avignon that's his right hand, man like these? I got designed to banana Vernon, specific purpose, this bananas and these night. What ok? But what is called the thought, had a colored events are more nutritious that bananas guess you can't face foolishly beating bananas. She, like one of many day their sugar, ok, really shouldn't be bananas, re, but wouldn't, the amazing? If you manage to convince Christians that, like you know actually, instead of the eucharist, you should be eating bananas. We know some people to believe Bananas like Schubert Ollinger, potassium something to him, but a coconuts better for you and you gonna break that fuck it

No I've been getting it through that Husk Yannick. Somebody had to figure out that husk yeah and then in the hard part, you, oughta, be so hungry banging on a broad and then luckily, for you, there's meat and water inside like well. What are the odds you had to do a lot of what I bet it was probably somebody who's loved one. Was killed by a falling cocoanut and got fuckin pissed smell that cocoanut, with a rock thinking that coconut, killed there, mom or some who killed there. Mom with that fucking cocoanut that two hundred fifty people die every year, because cocoanut foreigner had what a way to go to one people in America by Marm toddlers every year. I think what would you rather go by cocoanut or toddler? Cocoanut take a drop in Iraq and I had been all day to be shot by a one year. That's really just a one year old, you like why

I know, you're tired why'd. You leave a loaded onto your personal, crazy and now you get mom, but maybe you should. I keep that guy your hip relieved, and purses, namely the kids with the guns and the kids Porto. I seen anti a ban and they shoot mommy. Twenty one. People here think that that's that's not a good way to go, but in general I may do that's too a month. Yeah, bang one just pray, Heaven Now it's like visit a timer, that's gone off. Like we're waiting in the slowest national dialogue back. We should have arm tat. Or you get a notification and every time an arm toddler kills a person. Twenty one year, just in this country, where I think proper, We primarily in this country folks get on that who are out promote your app. Please sit. I lied to me. Tat man Instagram make that app or promoted the arm

toddler app Margaret Wilmot Toddlers shootings in two thousand fifteen, only thirteen specific killed More- oh, my God, is at its thirteen, had inadvertently killed themselves. Thirteen kids have killed themselves of firearms, thirteen more injured themselves, ten your other people and to killed, have also as I too, this is this Thursday mammals. Tyler's killed more Americans and terrorists in two thousand fifteen, but we're how many they kill, it says they only killed two to account other p. Or to killed other people so toddlers thirty later they were suicide bombers who killed her. That's the point, okay! So when you saying that they killed fifteen people, thirteen those fifteen they yeah, that's not the same right, that's not them! But I've read

Where is this where you getting this from? Was on smoking arm toddlers due notice? Didn't we talk about snobs, but the guy married, a hooker, think yell you're, the guy who own snobs left his wife married a hooker who had a website that active escort website with reviews, as recently as two thousand fifteen people review, so nothing Rabin, Hooker now at school, but it's the oldest profession, but when I think about a dude marrying a hooker, I think about a dude whose off the rails wearing duties, these who marries an escort like he might there's a fifty fifty chance that guy the out of his fuckin. My so like one of the criticisms of snobs during this election was that it wasn't. There is a pro Hilary biased to some of the information that snubs is reporting on an appeal. Lee, she had been involved in some sort of an anti Bush anti Saloon Anti republic.

Website in the past and in a wins left told you deal so snobs mobility worthy or not. Maybe beside all those things they still stick to. The two sides, one. Other thing I mean, you know Wouldn't it be nice of people actually stuck to the seller. Six, the facts reality I would weigh rather have someone who goes off a merry some crazy S, court, lady, and they both to ecstasy every night, but when it comes down to this What I do solid worked as unbailed. Allow are about all this. Husband and wife, now married and that's the only ego, go happy happy couple: have a good time, began smile and gives a shit if you get paid for sex Palazzo, goddamn prude that's when she was at our best to preserve creek. I mean that's also like the weird thing always with like fundamentalist than like what Mary Virgin like D. You want somebody has some experience. Does when the old wife, though this, what she's mad due to their she mad

this feeling. I mean just ass. She yeah, where again see, I want wanna, know someone's experience for sure you want someone. Who's worked out all the tooth blow job so that when they get to you, they know what they're doing right in his there, much of a difference between a woman who gets paid for each individual sexual encounter, verses, won't Amerika guy from mine, which is pretty much the same thing called the same thing yet yeah, I mean just have one John for life. There are at least until your looks run out- Anti Castro exec Millie up grassy number, four, exactly those guys like. That's that's the trap. Move soup rich dudes Dickie, keep Bauer and more bawler wives, but the new one is, like God, damn well, but at a certain point like it that's the problem, he can't really. I don't. He can't replaced wanna novelties president with hotter one bia. Yes, you do, you think you can figure The eyes the king of the assholes, thank I think of them

have you come out of the closet as assholes yeah? You know what I mean. This is a rare time. What's not just that, he doesn't know represent a lot of people there wanted to lean more rights and also represents a lot of men that a kind of dicks yeah right right they get excited about. This disease is just Definitely more overt asshole leash behaviour in the name of Tromp YAP in out, like he's tapped into that way. Which I didn't really see. I don't remember seeing that from any other candidate ever well, I think you know that frustration has been building a lot for a long time when those guys they didn't get their representation. That's got kicked his wife out if she's at some stupid, Oh, oh, she said I'm tired of his breath. Yeah fuck him to accede to the curve, and I mean people, get J wherever Donald get a new one or it be like a gigantic. Like nationwide woman Hunt defined

The perfect person who just just knows Do what she told the r and D just adjusted, obey the Donald and is to take care of them and as long as she doesn't look too much like a vodka right, Scott. Cod is fuck, yeah sure mean he's a goddamn present and that's it. And his wife is artists Fox on he's. Gonna go down now he's neo, yet alas, has only to go down and age because it keeps going up right. He went with his first. Then we might Milo Papers maples. She super hot, and in this way is even more super. Yet this one's off the charts eastern european women about whether I think actually like a large part of it, is, I think, also cultural writin. There's a certain like arrogance that eastern european women have where their sort of like who are you? like our you good enough for me. There's a throne haughtiness right and a certain scepticism, like

availability emotionally your racist? What he's all I'm? I'm such a naturalist, nobody speaking about culture! This is outrageous. Well, do you want to of outrageous conversation. I mean you seem like a guy who likes them. I do yeah, I do, but do you think because of the war a lot of those russian man died and the war I mean there is a mass culling of males frame it's already a much much older phenomenon in the war right. So in terms of cultural. Lucian the way that cultural evolution works, as we all have certain mindsets right. So every human has optimism and pessimism rain. But, for example, we talked about Americans earlier writin how outside or see Americans and Americans or a you know, historically, massively optimistic, even Alexis to Tocqueville when he came here. Red french guy comes here. He's like Americans are so optimistic. What is up with that right troika gas on well, but it is, I mean honestly like because there are.

Some has certain benefits, which is that it makes you super productive right. Super happy- and these have always been a large part of what american successes about. But optimism does have a problem, which is that optimism has a tendency to me. You delusional right. Ah problem, that's a problem: and so, if you look at what is the most optimistic group of humans on the planet, its actors and loss Angelus right, aren't I really the most optimistic. You think. Why think the people who were to move to allay right, you have to real I believe that out of all the people in the world that somehow you're gonna make it right. So optimism is what attracts people out here, but then would have is a lot of them end up sort of sitting in optimism right. There always sitting

and being like? I'm going to get discovered, I'm going to get discovered, I'm going to win the lottery right. Essentially it's that sort of mindset and then they're just waiting for things to happen. They don't have an actual plan for going about it. That's obviously not true of all. After some people are like man, okay, I'm out here now, if I'm going to make it, I need to hustle and he's do things. I need to do all that sort of stuff, but there is that trajectory. Actors who come out here, hoping they're getting it discovered. You know, are waiting to be discovered for forty fifty years and then like oh shit, I'm seventy and then they crash. And then you know they become the super depressed, cynical actors who sit around like you know, being let fuck the industry, the industries that involvement the exact labels who arrive rough to be around they are about to be around the bit it out its own to coming out of them like sprinkler system, and that is where a lot of Middle America's right now, because they ve had this hope of the Americans

in the american dream, the american dream, the american Dream and then there's those hopes have been crushed right. It hasn't delivered, it hasn't pan out. The way that it was spoke. Two and so you're, seeing a lot of pessimism and media, which is the opposite side and pessimism has certain strengths and that the strengths of pessimism, it's that constructive paranoia. We talked about that they put practice in Papua New Guinea, which is that your super alive to threats but you're, actually so alive to threats that you see, threats that aren't even their right, you're Maronite right, but The problem is that it also comes with substance abuse, so you find that you know, for example, of tap in the Middle America's there's a lot of substance abuse going on on all these opioid addictions, all that sort of stuff right, but don't you think, that's a function of being, both those things as much as a function of the society that we live in its those things are super dangers to be exposed to, and because of these corporations, are we talking about the consequent up their bottom line? They are selling these things like,

see my doctor sorts. I mean that could be as much as of the cap OZ of despair as a symptom of the issue. Well, right will, of course, of course, that the factor, but at the same time look at Russia right. Russia's if place, that is famous for substance, abuse, rain. Thirty point: five percent of Russians die from alcohol related causes and that's as compared to say three percent in America right so ten times as many Russians are dying from alcohol related causes and they drink fuckin. Anything right like they pioneer weird fuckin drugs like crocodile men, are just like flock Zeilinger, yadda, yadda yadda exposed bones and there they appear

Equally, there is all this weird stuff that happens in Russia where, for example, will drink like you know some weird detergent, some glade plug or something like that cause there's a tiny bit of alcohol, and so there is a certain psychology that comes with that mass of pessimism and that massive pessimism involved because of the context of russian history right. So russian history, if you ever, want to truly be depressed, just read some Russian, history right, that'll, do it for you and you find that, like me in Russia has always been a meat grinder right. It just choose people up at spits them out and so the can you survive and that environment is being massively paranoid right? The winter will kill you right. The leadership. He'll, kill you. There is also does things it'll kill you, and so the eastern european mindset tends towards this massive mass of pessimism and the pessimism is useful in the same way that

as for the popular Guinean, where your massively alive to possible threats, but it sets up these problems and the problems that it sets up. Our substance abuse, and it also sets up the problem of sort of anticipating threats that aren't actually there and just overall despair he up, and so what s happening is that there is then the problem that pessimism optimists misunderstand each other right. They dont give each other right. The optimists is like you're, just fucking depressing, and you know sort of sea threats at aren't there and, like your life sucks and the pessimists looks at the optimists- is like your fuckin delusional. Do like you, gotta get real. You gotta understand how things really work. So if you look at what happens in russian and american relations, what happens is that you'll have to the same situation been interpreted in two totally different ways. So, after the fall of the Berlin Wall, the United States made some sort of promise or some sort of information that it would not expand. Nato any further east and the Russians were took that as

hey you're, not expanding NATO. Any further east right, but in fact would end up happening. Is that the United States in the West, in its four of oblivious hopefulness, dislike, let's keep expanding NATO right they didn't take. This comment very seriously and they move NATO all the way to Estonia all the way to the russian border and the Russian. Sitting on their site interpret that as a violation of the promised so sitting. There is the pessimists they are there tracking. Each of these moves like ok, your move in another country over your move in another country over. We see what you're doing and that's a lot of what the tension that boiled up between Russian America was about. Well, don't you think right now, Russia's in the weirdest place ever with Putin. Because he's essentially a dictator, no using dictator right right in front. Yes, a dictator and olive is all of the people that are opposing him, the one I'm getting murdered, yeah really publicly. Yet! But that's because the dictators are godfathers, that's what they're they are and you,

you know. Fathers are so well on the sending an EU russian culture, but no justice, who could daffy, who is Saddam Hussein? Who are any of these guys? They they function as the godfather of their society, so there is basically you know what you what the there's an I should clarify just so that people know, whereas, as all coming from the saw coming from books and interviewing academics, and if you are curious about anything tweet me. Let me know and if there's any comments, that your curious about direct you to the book and you can go, read it and you can work your way up. The science chain and figured out here for an onslaught of didn't pay to between ITALY exactly order or Dick picks, I dont know what to do with those but you know save him, you don't really want to set a bad example gifting, so brushing civilization where worry zone, so there's theirs

centrally. If you look at, if we talk about those hunter gathers rang, they have two big problems. Right and one big problem is banned level. Genocide so what'll happen. Is that periodically one tribal just go and wipe the fuck and try right, they'll, kill them down to the last man, they'll kill. The baby's will do all that sort of stuff, and this can happen super super quickly, so what'll of Jared. I'm and when we had him on the podcast. He told this great story about you know: there's these two tribes in public, guinea. They been living side by side for years and years and years perfectly happily, they love tell they get along. They cooperate. All this sort of stuff and then resources get scarce right. There's some change, the environment suddenly there's not as much food around and as people start to get hungry, one of the tribes goes off and four in the course of half an hour, they tell each other made up stories that get increasing

fantastic and by the end of the half an hour, they have convinced themselves at the other. Tribes are vermin that they need to be exterminated, that they are a scourge on the land that they're not really human and they go home life than the fuck out, and that is one of the dangerous potentials and human psychology is the fact that, when resources get scared scarce, we like identifies some sort of threat in the environment. Some sort of group of Humans- and we go we wiping the fuck out. So if you look at, for example, what happened in Germany in nineteen thirty, three right, there's the great depression, there's hyperinflation they're all these problems and new note that old psychology that hasn't changed and tens of thousands of years is still there and so naturally, people start looking round for scapegoat me anti Semitism that a sort of already lingering in you know the german cultural environment. You know, suddenly that becomes the target group and you know Hitler. The political opportunity comes along and says: oh, you can blame it on them. That's the source of all your problems,

like there's a death mode locked in the human consciousness that when things get scarce and like oh, you might die yet. We are now on death, Mon, that's right and death mode me to kill other people quickly. That's right end and that's in it, and you have to understand that this is the brutal reality of evolution is? Is that in that Hunter gatherer contacts? That's fucking useful! It's really useful! If him, if resources get scarce to be the one who acts first, who were Epps out the other tribe. First, what's interesting, though, we even think that this is unusual bizarre when we look at nature when you and all the different system in nature that are set up. How many times lions will kill cubs make sure that those males don't grow up to dominate. That's right specially cut it out there's,

and then I mean that's. A big problem of sort of what's happening on college campuses is that there are a lot of unpleasant things in human psychology and unpleasant things in human nature, and you know for the humanity really the good things come from being realistic. When we're realistic about how disease works, we get to control it. When we're realistic about how doctrines, work we get to control them. Let me ask you this because he has a really important this subject that this issue, Marxism spreading across universities. What do you think is the cause of that like we're? Why is that so active to people and young people so confident to openly proclaimed, proclaimed sounds as marxist, without understanding how ridiculous at as well it's you know so John Height, Who you know is and why you he has what's called moral foundations, theory, and essentially it's that we have. We all have the sort of basic impulses of morality so, for example, fairness right,

so you know you can watch little kids and they're like our tracking fairness. What's fair, who got more? Who got to play with claymore and all that sort of stuff. That doesn't change right. But we have these notions of fairness play out in different ways as we're adults, but different political groups and different try favour these other notions of fairness more than some other. So let take, for example, the issue of pro life versus pro choice. Right. Ok, so you have let us here's. The question are liberals pro life or our liberals pro choice there more pro choice, on the issue of abortion, your eyes so on abortion. It's about freedom right! Ok, it's very much about women's rights, yet women's freedom, it's a big! It's not! It's only me thought of illegal a human freedom because its about the woman, not about the child, that's right! So it's about the woman's freedom, so sedate hooked up to that idea of freedom. Right, yes, and then you know, conservatives are pro life

this is about carrying in protecting from harm and all that sort of stuff, ok, you talk about war, impress you're talking about war and that's exactly. The point is that you know are all humans hypocrites or is it that we selectively use these same intuitions that we all have four different causes? So if you look at, for example, gun control are liberals, pro choice or pro life, their death lay pro life a so. What you see is that on abortion, their pro choice and on gun control, their pro life, but in when it comes, other way exactly. Lagoons are proud choice when I don't write guns, so we all have these same intuitions, but we use them in different ways to justify our political arguments, what's interesting to. Is that there's two positions that are taking place in the american psyche, at least that were almost reluctantly agreed to, and that is that there are applicants are, or the conservatives are more a realistic, more hard core raided, kick ass raw

to fight for. What's right. Yet, whereas the liberals are bunch a wild cry, babies looking to give away their money and they creating welfare babies will that Sir ages there if it wasn't for, if it wasn't for the conservatives, these fuckin people would be speaking and live in Vienna, accolade right well at all tribes, the nature of tribes. You tell something that makes your tribe looked like the good guys right right so of each drivers, That's that's the conservative story and then the liberal story is like we're fighting racism and sexism to shoot a golden globes. I did see the golden didn't see the merest troops. I did see the magistrate God Ass, God bless my would use dog it about me. Martial arts, people get so mad and those like, of course it is a watch, cage she's talking out of her ass for sure. But she did you not to say that some people aren't artist. Marshall artists are an artist. Did that's completely to interpretation like what do you think is beautiful? You think they're fucking stupid moving

replay that rockstar was that one that nobody want to see, Ricky get your gun or the fuck that is less than that was an art that was an r an Anderson Silva Front kick to the face is a thousand times more beautiful than that piece of shit movie put out lady, I'm sure, she's, a very nice person. She probably thinks she's she's standing up for. What's right, get ready for Ricky get the fuck out of here three people that we want our later there is such a movie? Did you see that movie ever heard what it s like? What are they doing? The eighty year old, Ladys gonna, be a rock star, Ricky's come back, and but it's also like such weird casting for her to cause like he does like these emotionally difficult, like Sophie's choice, movies and yeah she's like trying to do, the poppy rockstar movie. Well, she was interested in it. You know she's, amazing, actress, gems. Amazing artist in her realm and I just think it's the EU can You could sort of say that without disparaging what other people enjoy,

including disparaging what a lot of women enjoy like and foreigners like one thinks you're saying, is that Hollywood's crow with foreigners. If you take them, all you have left is Mme and foot long. I'm amazed mix martial arts, not the arts, but you wouldn't that's all true, because, like eighty percent of fighters in the sea or from other countries there from Ireland like COM, Macgregor there from Brazil, like amended Nunez, I mean there's the good incredibly, a verse line up of people from all over the world. So far, You say that is like so silly, but I've academic stand saying that you don't think it's an art by your interpretation. I understand that. But the larger point is that humans are really get right. Usual in general are silly and we're not individually that smart. I think performance arts like as far as dance I mean there dance is clearly an art right. If you watch Mikhail version of off that's clearly art and I think

In many ways, competition in performance, like gymnastics, is also an art we don't think of as an aren't. We think of it as a sport. When you look at the ability to execute the spectacular moves you maybe that doing it too concerto, but it's still are. In our view. We see some amazing gymnast fly through the air and nail a landing, it's beautiful, its glorious. Well, that's art in competition, but it's not one on one: competition now art in one on one, competition is Edson, Both are we'll kicking Terry Adam. I know it doesn't look like art to some people, but to me it does well, it's a technically extra we difficult move. It is quite a lot of time to practice and get good at which just the fact that when he does his beautiful pair wet it just now in someone's face was someone has to suffer because someone has to suffer and perhaps sometimes both people have to suffer in terms of a very brutal fight right.

If you look at like Amanda Nunez is not out of Rwanda rousing of urine Amanda Nunez Fan that is a beautiful work or yeah. Could she didn't get it? promotion for that five. She was looked at like cannon fodder to go in there and fight rosy. A lot of people are predicting a first round victory and shoe out there and fucked her up and forty eight seconds diet art to out to some people. Might not be to her, but well, but So I mean this comes down to you know liberals right so in general, liberals massively over favour the notion of caring, that's like their big, big moral intuition great, so they care about the environment bright. They care about protecting children, toddlers from dangerous guns right. They just sort of everything, is interpreted through bearing in wanting to protect. So understandably when they look at- and am I may fight there like? Oh that's bad, because there's not caring and people are getting hurt, render getting their feelings are, and so when

Petersen is on here any Saki about how its is very sort of maternal thing is very maternal thing and the press is that you know what ends up happening. Is that when you have an echo chamber like college campuses, which are incredibly liberal with very few outside opinions that that's the rabbit hold it they go down, they go down the caring rob hall when you go down the carrying rabbit hole you end of marxism and no, when you're surrounded by people who essentially think like you, there's no one to likes it, you down and be like that's fucking nods, like let's talk about you think, though there That is why do you think going down the caring rabbit hole? Lead you to Marxism, because you know you don't want anyone's feelings to get hurt. You want everybody to have enough. You know you want to share, and it's important to realize back to your point where you said: like you know, if it was the three of US communism might work right. There comes back to the Dunbar number. If you actually look at Hunter Gatherer tribes, their communist right there really really socialist and and what they do is, for example, they have these behaviors

for example- will drag if you going kill a dear. We drag it into the middle of the village, so everybody can see the deer and then we divided up and then you make sure that you give it to everybody else. First and then you take the last piece and you take the smallest peace. So it's you know what do with birthday cake. Your trap me sure everybody like I being super sherry here. Isn't this great I'm not thinking about myself and at the level of a tribe you and I can track all of the interactions we can attract. We can track the fact that you know You no fucking hung over. There is not pulling his way such and such a piece of shadows and that's the point we gone. We talk about we talk of shit and then we go, we go and we confront on, and we say you fucking piece of shit like weeds all hunting all day and then you sit around, and you know this

Can it be in and there is always gonna be an arm, and if you have enough people for sure you can have one hundred people this can we want and that's just evolution. It's a strategy that works more photo fat. Am, I certainly come back, nor the blog. Would you ate all of the head nurse and you have to plot kill on well or to get onto pull his way park him now you just they kill em taken. Take him hunting and have em Evan accidental. Moreover, the fucking yeah exactly look over there dude waterfall by getting to hang out with a toddler with a gun and that's not gonna work together with the one area where locked little kid. That's too much, therefore taken it now gives Euro worry about a sharp eye on our from a toddler. Another reason why arrows superior some so but Marxism Marxist, being like a car.

In its ideology. Marxism, being that you know, everyone should be more equal sharing more, but as Jordan Peter and pointed out so eloquently on your podcast in on my ipod gas that doesn't really work and it doesnt work at seven billion people north hundred million people. My word is fifty. It works at fifty or a hundred and fifty, I guess that's what our brain contract right. The problem is that I can't track all the uncle it works great with technology. It works great. Without access to people all over the world works great in consolidated environment. Suddenly all control contain environment, but it doesn't work when, essentially there's you know: you're an apartment. Building of two thousand people in your fuckin talked anybody right, repeated people say well, it should work and we can make it work. It's just this old, outdated mine said the you fuckers grew up. You you go you guys drew up way back in the day before the influence of the internet now understand at sea- is a very respectable pronoun.

Do we use in exile are highly say that zero zero zero. I think so I don't know seventy five. They Ardashir on nothing whatever the fuck. They argue, nutty concept that well I mean, I think, blocks words of making people use it well, Oxford. Again also gone down the rabbit whole, but that these you know colleges and act. You are not going to go back out of the rabbit home there. Just get they're gonna keep going down the rabbit whole until the larger community holds them accountable. So: do you think that that's happening at all? Now I mean there was the present of Chicago University. That said, hey, listen, there's gonna be a safe space. Is this year is going to mean a trigger warnings to shut the fuck up and get to work and learn the marketplace of ideas? That's right!

express yourself get your ideas, challenged debate these ideas, let's find out what's right rather than what safe well, and I think, a large part of how you do that faster. I mean firstly, people already doing it. There's the there's, the guy's Chicago, there's, Jordan Petersen. You know the larger community is having a conversation about this, but the faster way to do this is science right. You, front people with science, and then you force people to either. Are you either accepting reality? Are you denying reality denying reality, then you a real problem. Because now you look like a fool: what you do when you talk about science, you ever eat, you run into a real issue when it comes to gender gap, Gender and science, like would gender, as is discussed on campuses today things they gets things get really and then it gets real sort of loose and open to interpretation and even though your biologically a mail you can identify, as a woman and the correct way to treat used to treat you as women, so we're we're gone well.

Are the realm of science now well born into the world of social constructs and agreed upon behavior. But the science exists, it's just in journals and it hasn't being brought and made accessible these children and there are ways to do it very simply. So, for example, do you know the story of David Reimer? No? Ok! So this is a kid in the sixties, who, I think, of the canadian and for some bizarre reason right at the hospital. The surgeon decides to use an electoral cautery needle to circumcised him and base equally, there is a huge botch up and he manages didn't yeah. He manages to chop off most of his dick fright, and so the parents are like. Ok can't put that back on water. Do, and so they end up going to the world's leading specialist in the nineteen sixties or whatever was fifty six years on. And identity and all this stuff, which is the sky doktor money and they go into

Doktor money choose is now in the middle of March. I sticks, doktor money, convinces them to castrate their penis list sun and to raise him. Is it and so they have to go and units take their son in and a day and who is now to be raised as Brenda. Is you no doctor money is showing pictures of naked men, two Brenda and sang like this is what blogger like in all this stuff, and you, Oh is forcing him to wear women's clothing and they're. Gonna do hormone therapy and all this sort of stuff now doktor money is meanwhile publishing but that is saying. Oh, this is a tremendous success. It's amazing like gender is all construct. You know blah blah blah blah. You know perfectly adjusting to life as a girl, all this stuff. In the plan is that no they're gonna, need you surgery and given the vagina and all this sort of stuff, not something

now. Meanwhile, what is Brenda doing Brenda's hitting things with sticks, Brenda has no interest in playing with her sewing machine, except for the one time that she takes a screwdriver and picks it apart to figure out how it works and doesn't want to hang out with girls only once Hale with boys only wants to play with her brothers toys- and you know so all these sorts of things, and at some point you know, and when the kid is like thirteen fourteen, the jigsaw they figure out, that they better tell Brenda the truth and and to find out the truth and proceeds to essentially, you know, have a mistake to me to remove her breasts so just to male hormones- and you know instantly goes too living as a boy now, what happens is that you know Brenda. Now David grows up man he's a woman and no has a relationship, but, unsurprisingly has a whole bunch.

Psychological issues and ultimately goes into a supermarket grow. A parking lot blows his brains out now The point is that I think that if you really want to talk about gender, you should force anybody who wants to deny gender to talk about David, Reimer. You make David my household names and we're all going to talk about what lessons can we learn from the tragedy of J David Reimer and if you get, for example, you know how many listeners you have at this point a lot lot Joe. If you get your tens of millions of listener? Thirty million plus listeners talking about David, Reimer and You're like we're gonna make David Reimer household name working to make sure that the tragedy of David Reimers something that everybody knows about learns about and the everybody's tweeting and talk David Reimer, then suddenly it becomes very hard for anybody to say that gender is purely a construct. There may be spectrums, and there may be, like you know, weird in between areas, but the reality.

Is that a lot of gender is genetic in the sciences there and you're not going to get a bunch social just sorcery. Science is most people, don't actually read science, but you will get them to engage with the story of David, Slash Brenda. Reimer while there there is most certainly is a spectrum yet. But there is also a high percentage of people that operate in a very specific area of the spectrum and you're gonna get some kids that are convince. Did they are boys? That's what I guess what some of those kids grow up and they change their mind as they get older and that something that we deserve the shit out of me when I see nine year old that are on hormones and, unlike the seems, crazy, like this, kid really thinks he's a girl. Let him think he's a girl like, as is like, why adding hormones to the mix why he runs right. Why you suggesting surgery. Many turns fifteen or whether I fuck the ages like this seems like something that should be worked out by a groan adult with a fully developed frontal, cortex no, it doesn't see, and I also like the influence of the parents to change. Change how this kid? If you have a kid- and you have a daughter,

your daughter just once. Curly hair off and climb trees and like let her do that yet like if she wants to be a boy, let I think she's a boy in work at all out one day, that's right, but to work at all out and to encourage that behaviour or do say we're gonna, bring you to a transgender specialist right away and they get a prescribed this now. How many of these people are gonna, be like Brenda Reimers original doctor Those that mail name was a male, namely night. David data, Reimer David reimers original doctor who fit who were denounce, proclaim meet with such a success. Well, Natasha! in general rat reality? Denial leads to tragedy, cats, and you know so what we have to engage with his? What is reality? And you know it's not that I sit here and I've read literally all of science. I can like it's it's far too vast or project and science. Is it supposed to be an individual project supposed to be?

collective project we're all trying to really figure out? What is this bitch known as reality? That is evaded us for millions of years right, tens, hundreds of thousands of years- and you know the the point- is that if you want to talk about like gender, for example, let's talk about people who are in her sex. There are some people who are born and it's not you know, their genitalia birth are clearly male or female and what they now do You know the medical community is. Is that you basically find out what are they genetically? Are they ex? Why are they acts acts? And then you raise them is that, but you don't do hormones and you dont do surgery precisely because you're gonna, let them decide right and if you are, I mean you know how much better UK. So why is this so using an electric hotter kneel to needle to do circumcision who the fuck knows right, like it's a dumb choice by a surgeon, but imagine if they'd said. Ok that fuck up happened. We can't

on fuck that up, but we're not gonna, now make it worse by chopping off his balls with his What year is in the sixties, sixties the amount of data they had backed them so limited and we ve now we ve got a lot more data and Munich, David Brenda Reimer, is not an isolated incident. There have been other incidents like that, and you know there they very like it's. Not it's not that everything turns out like David Brenda, Reimer right, but if you really care about children and you really care about people and which is the sort of the big liberal value, then you know, and the hippocratic oath the whole point of being a doctor is their first responsibilities. Do no harm right, you're, not supposed to make things worse right. If you can make things better without you know really possibly making things worse than that's great, and so again again you we'd, we dont! Let children vote, we dont, let children DR. Why would we let them make such a huge decision at such

young age, and I think whatever the decision ends up being you know, people are going to make their own individual decision so be it. But you want to make sure that the decision is an informed. Vision. This also there's forbidden territory when it comes to under and gender identity? As far as like what you are allowed to debate or not allowed debate there's a lot of forbidden territory and it becomes pretty obvious that the origin of that forbidden behaviour? Forbidden thinking is that people there our transgender or gay or marginalized. In any way have been discriminated Ganz entreated poorly? And- and we recognise that so we order we automatically stop any critical thinking when it comes to those people It can't be crazy link, they must be the inner, it's just a transgender issue, yet it couldn't be their crazy end, transgender, without never discussed it can't be he's.

And stupid. It's gonna Nogueira, more wonderful, the other all amazing, because they ve all been discriminated against right and the point. Is you don't I mean yoke. Human beings are human beings, and so, for example, when we had Jordan yours and on one of the questions that I asked him a which I think is a super important question is Jordan's a psychologist right and I asked him ok so: let's imagine you had a patient who came here and said you know. I want to be called by one of the seventy pronouns right. What, as your patient, would you then do, and he said well, if you came to me and said to me that you were Jesus Christ. I would have to, as a responsible doctor first decide that it was in my best interest to call you Jesus Christ, so I have to figure out really what is that about, and is it going to serve your outcome to be able to do that and again, do you know there's unaccountability for any human, whether it's a celebrity or a sports star or rapper, or a gay person or a transgender person or a politician or a scientist, is bad

had like humans, need accountability like that's just the rally. Otherwise we go fuck and not balls. So if, for any reason a human is denied accountability to other humans, you ve got a problem right, yeah you're doing damn it disservice by? I thinking that your in somehow another helping now or you know like that stupid article earlier today that we are talking about about these. People shown over the racism com, France and then why people being forced to check their privilege like this historic you're ruining The whole thing with this kind of short sighted shitty thinking. Do really go down the rabbit I will allow. Let's do it I'll do it. So you know- Thomas soul. I know that

why don't you get it named? Thomas soul is a big famous conservative he's at Stanford he's at the Hoover Institute? I think anyway, so you know within this I mean first just to set all this up. We should set up briefly. How does culture work right and the way culture works? Is that it like genetic evolution? It works based on blind copying. So what ends up happening is that you are in all of people right. You look up to people, and so you blindly copy the things they do and civically. You start by blindly copying from the outside and then you work in so the first thing you do, as you see someone in your like. Oh, that person's fucking, amazing that rock star that sport star whatever and you start dressing like them. You start walking like them and all that sort of stuff. Now a hunter gatherer contacts that would be. You know somebody who is a hunter or is a gather and you're like man, you know she finds all the best squatters. How does she do that then ung fuck and eat

yeah, and so you know you would you would like hang out with her you'd sort of like shimmy up to her you be seeing what she'd be doing. I should like to say that she looks for a very particular color of guava. She Minos squeeze them in a certain way. And over time you learn what she's doing and then, ultimately, you even learn how she's thinking, but in a large scale, Society like ours. I don't meet Michael Jordan Right, Michael Jordan. Just becomes the sort of distant person that idolize and so advertisers have figured out how to hijack these mechanisms, and they know if you put a burger, Next, to Michael Jordan's, face that I'm like oh, I want to be like Michael Jordan, Slime Guinea, he's a big MAC right and little children or diamonds, so they blindly copy that or oh I want to be like James Dean. His cigarette in his mouth I wanna blindly copy that, and we don't understand that the Berger or

Cigarette is not actually the key to being a successful oars cool as or as good a basketball as Michael Jordan, James Dean right. We don't stand that that's where that comes from. So we have this tendency to blindly copy anything. We can write some accents, Pierre yeah and in in a mass society we never work our way and we never learn the mastery right. We just sort of remain at this sort of very superficial level. So what that means is that where, where did this also that's a good question where are you going with us, while we're starting culture, how culture world yea our culture works? Ok, now we're gonna talk about black people. Crisis cries so that on this topic, Thomas Soul, is black guy, greyer and Thomas soul. Has

for years and years and years been trying to fight racism, but he's been trying to fight racism by having a conversation about culture right and the fact that there are essentially two difference or of a you know too, were speaking broadly here right, but this is, for the purposes of communication, were Intel, simple story to start off with right. So, broadly speaking, he puts to different cultures of people with dark skin next to each other and one culture is these people from the West Indies and one culture is as people group of people who grew up the south, with slavery in all that sort of stuff. Now what one group the West Indies group does really well so, although a lot of the successful black people, people at Colin Powell, originally from that cultural heritage, the other group is the group that you find in ghettos and african american communities and all that sort of stuff. They don't do well right. They don't good education, the euro, should each other there all these sorts of things and the reason I saw his

telling the story is because he's been trying to say you know when liberals look at the people in ghettos they say ah racism. That's why they're not seating and soul is saying no its, not because if you look at this group from the West Indies, they also came from the experience of slavery. There was slavery in the West Indies, they are also black, so they also face racism, and yet they do well. So it has to be something else and The other thing is the fact that these black people who were in the south, there's always been a big question. Were black people robbed of their culture or did they preserve their authentic african culture, and what soul is saying is that they were robbed of their culture, and so they picked up the culture of the people around them and the people around them were rednecks. And if you look at the white Redneck call

and the black redneck culture. They have a lot of the same values. They dont particular respect education. They love Jesus, they use violence in their conflict, x and day, you know there's theirs you know a lot of the same values and a lot of the same outcomes and even at Bonn X, which is Munich, black English is actually off from the West of England. So it's actually disquiet it's from the West of England. So, for example, if you go to pay It is like Cornwall. There used to be this amazing these raising ads on british TV right for this, this Devon Custard or whatever- and they will we say Devon NEWS. Oh they make it so creamy and they all talk like this right and so it doesn't sound like black English, but they do say things like we do. Not- and we be doing this and you be doing that and they be doing that, and so there's that use of that cop you'll be right where it sits. Saying I am you are he is she is they are they just say I be you, be we

be they be, which is the classic feature of black english african urban tackling right now, the point, as is there how in blower my blog? Now, let's imagined that how do you think that Thomas or has been received by Liberal America, not well, try were not well, and so, for example, soul has a book called black rednecks white liberals, okay and his whole point is that you No, if you actually- and you know again, like soul- is you know he researchers their shit out of this stuff? You really does his work now, if you, if you look at the experience of african Americans after slavery, after slavery, they do really they. They start to make real progress right and a large part of them reason why they make progress is because you see to get a lot of people from New England either. You know black people from New England or why people from New England who come down and sort of reshape the culture they create these schools and their teaching

those New England values right. It's his puritan values of hard work, tenacity, all that sort of stuff, and so there's all this progress and have people like Booker, T, Washington and Booker T Washington was an actual slave and then, after he got his freedom, he got to go work in a salt mine, which is literally the worst job ever and in Booker T Washington up from slavery. He tells this great story about seeing a schoolhouse right and that you know he thought that going into a school house that is close to Heaven on earth is, you could get like. This is a dude who wanted an education really really badly and that's a lot of what you find in the you know early black experience in you know the post slavery period and in fact you know the blacks. You know before sort of world war, two actually had higher rates of marriage than whites All of these sorts of things that you know are now supposedly a problem and then there's turn around right. The black experience starts ago. South right, it's

to get worse and what years is around? This is post world war, two right, so so, post slavery by people experience a rebounding, they're starting demand here and there and ambitious Bulgaria, and I mean you know if, in terms of books to read like Lino just because a large you know a large part of what I am trying to do in general is really let's move to the place of all. People are created, equal, like let's remove Ali stupid distinctions right and really live that principle and the problem is that in order to really live that principle, you need a new narrative that beat slavery. So you know it's not. If you go and talk to racist, you can't just say racism is bat like that. Doesn't destroy racism, Bryant right. What destroys racism is when you make sense of the things that they No right, they see, you know people who are violent in the ghettos or they see crime, or they see a lack of education where they see that Africa is poor and you're able to tell a better still.

That makes sense of the things that they know but also comes out with the conclusion? Oh, we actually all have the same potential but if you have this issue with people, imitated their atmosphere and yet retaining their environment, this southern style talk with the southern, neck in yellow ends on the african American slaves former. Do how do you patty? Stop that and hurried turn that around will in general for humanity. Minister, The big problem for humanity in general is that there is not a culture alive today that is well suited to the world that we're living in, and that's because you know: Culture is adapted to environment in the same way as any evolutionary thing right. So, for example, you know if you look at like let saga. His hunter. Gatherer is right. The animal or something like that, so there's a grey,

and all of a sudden. The fish flowed up to the surface upside down right. They ve been a nest. The ties by this this, whatever substance leaf and this little boy goes into the river and he plucked out all the fattest fish and then, as the milky cloud, dissipates, the others fish swim away, There's this group of tribesmen in the Amazon and what they'll do is, there's a special leaf and they go and they squeeze this leaf right, the crush it up and this milk substance runs into the water and then all sudden the fish flowed up to the surface upside down right. They ve been anesthetize by this this, whatever substance, belief and this little boy goes into the river and he plucked out all the fattest fish and then, as the milky cloud, dissipates, the others fish swim away, bright, impressive, his fuck like how the fuck do these tribesmen, who don't have science, don't have any of these things, figure this thing out and its cultural evolution. That's what happens is that that's a nature of evolution. That's that

true of markets, because markets or an evolutionary process, you know intelligent and answers and intelligent solutions can emerge from just sort of competing forces, and so all of these Cultures are well adapted to a particular environment. So if you know, if you like, we talk about american culture and we talk about russian culture. Russian culture selects for pessimism, american culture because you had to move all the way across, ocean right. If you ve got villages in ITALY in Vietnam, whatever it is, who is the person in that village who says? I'm gonna go across the ocean, country, I know nothing about. You don't make a fortune right, it's the most optimistic individual, and so it's basically a magnet for all the men Stop domestic individuals in the world that the analogy always use this year. American tail, the like old made movie from like there must be the nineties or whatever. Probably I think I saw the well it's about a group of animated

its animated yeah who made it. I dont know trying to remember it's not Disney. That's it! Now. I dont think of students Milburgh anyway. It's it's sort of about the it's about the immigrant experienced more generally and then specifically sort of about the russian jewish experience, and it's about this family, the mask of its is and right there on that. On that trunk, there's five mask of its and final Bible mouse covets. You know in the first part therein Russia and the they're all being persecuted by cats right cause, they're, mine and five will now ask of its sings a song with all of the other mask of its is called. There are no cats in America. Right

which is so much of what the american immigrant experience is about right, you're like oh, it's all going to be perfect land of opportunity. The streets are paved with gold, except in an american tail. The streets are paved with cheese, American T Alia exactly or t I'll t eight, is he all right exactly plaster? So so the these different environments, right, just as you have different environments select for different different, You know beak serve wings or you know whatever. It is select for different mindsets. Different ways of thinking, different cultural traits right and what ends up happening is a weak, become well adapted to a particular environment. So what happens to the point of the lost city of sea is what happened to all of these european explores who went into the Amazon Wall a lot of them

can tide, and that's because they're doing things that are well suited to England like walking around in wool suits and eating cans of chip beef, but suddenly find carrot in the hundred degree heat of the Amazon. And there's all these animals? You don't understand and you don't know how to use the plants that you squeeze in the anesthetic in them in all its or so you can't survive right and what they called in velocity Z. All the explorers they called it, the Amazon, a counterfeit paradise. It looked like a paradise, so lush it was so tropical, but there are like there's nothing to fear could eat except clearly there was because amazonian people had been living there for tens of thousands of years. They just the Westerners didn't have the cultural software that was well. Sir. Did to surviving that environment. So how does this translates into african Americans? So what

the environment that created that southern redneck culture and the environment it turns out, is hurting right. So raising sheep, raising goats and all its research is most people who are in the south originally came from the scotch Irish and when you look at hurting cultures around the world, they all have certain traits in common right. So if you heard. Or will you have a big big problem and the big big problem is property rights? So if you're a farmer there, our clear boundaries on my land now there are ways you can try and fuck me. You can try and move Andrey stones on my land slowly into your field over over over over. But you know what we usually have, as we have some sort of government there's a local town official that we go to and he is responsible for policing the boundaries and so towns would do things where you know you would essentially all get together. We go walk the boundary stones and make sure that,

those boundaries stones had moved so the intuition of people from the North Puritans people like that is. If we have a problem, we go to the government. We resolve it through the government right in the environment of hurting. You can come over and you can steal my sheep and you can mix the sheep in with you flock, and I have no way to prove which might shoot which sheep are my sheep. So we evolved things like branding right where I have a brand I put on my sheep and all that sort of stuff, but is another strategy that is used that evolved before branding and that earlier strategy is being a crazy mother. Fucker. You establish a reputation is the kind of guy that you don't fuck with you come on my land, I kill you, you touch Sheep or my women I fucking, kill you and I use such an aggressive level. A vial once that. You know that you know

there is no point in fucking with I mean this is not plausible cause, I'm saying it, but let's imagine Rach tougher person. Conor Macgregor, for example, is a great example. You don't fuck with Conor Macgregor right. He has. A reputation is just being a bad s. Mother, Fucker, who'll fuck you up right right. So that's our key people off you and that's right and if you look at let's look at a couple of her culture, so hurt or cultures Could the Scots Irish, who are the rednecks, hurt or cultures include the Mongolian right, the Mongols, notoriously a very gentle peace, love people right- and they include the Bedouins, who are the Arabs right? Who had camels and all that sort of stuff? you'll notice that there is that same use of violence and mostly they fight amongst themselves? There's a centre clan warfare, but periodically a charismatic figure emerged is who unites the clans, so Genghis Khan manages to unite the Mongols and then What are the Mongols proceed to? Do you proceed to go use that aggressive use of violence? They have those horses which allow them to me.

Quickly right now really effective and they go and they fuck everybody up right, because you know that till farmers of China are prepared for that in the gentle. Farmers is a persian repair that what happens with the Arabs. The Arabs are mostly fighting amongst themselves, but then along comes this charismatic figure with the new belief system, the unites the Muhammad and Human, I'd them and suddenly they flock everybody up and they create this great empire. The caliphate right that spreads all across Central Asia, and the Middle EAST and all across North Africa. Right and in many ways that is what Donald Trump is they ve been. You know the red, I have been fighting amongst themselves for a long time and then Donald Trump, the gang Khan of Amerika. The Mohammed of America has six, in uniting the Glance- and you know in our time you don't Do it I'm going out and like raping and pillaging you going

You see the ballot box, a new vote and you know you really like take back power and so that's what they ve done, but there are, if you look, there are certain problems that occur across these heard or cultures. So if you're at you know, is of a friend of mine who you're so essentially saying that the south is that the reason why Donald Trump has been elected because the south, because of the herd or culture well and its also Swiss, if you ve, read hillbilly elegy jade events as book nights, its excellent right, but he's really talking out this hillbilly culture. And so it's not just the south right. So what happened is that its redneck, kids, rednecks, which is of or you know whatever or hillbillies or whatever. You want to call him. Oh folk, whilst not even simple folk, it's just a particular culture and they have certain values, and I just it's also worth clarifying. Is the way that I sound and where I come from in the fact that I went to Harvard Valentine, yeah and video Then I'm not a part of that tribe that you know Americans, though a tremendous debt to the hillbilly culture and that from

This debt is that overwhelmingly there are the people have served in the military and they overwhelmingly the people who have fought or wars and bled and died, and all that sort of stuff- and that's not a stuff that I may sound like a liberal, but I dont really sit in IRA those cultures, sporadic and good critique the liberal culture, and I can critique the hillbilly culture right and in a white liberals. The whole region, started this thing off, because white liberals have their own weird things that are dysfunctional in that aren't helping black people and all that stuff, if you just war, a bow tie, people think you're a service that I have to do in there you go, or maybe it's in the museum or low tie a bolo time. Actually I would like to do that like I liked the text you're out of your answer- yeah rancher, lighted, Jade right there in Polish George, W Bush beef in Connecticut, but dress like it. I, like you, mean more, I really mean is I mean cannabis, poor Yasser there from that is the widest why a northern people ever live at french folks, young man is filled with French for maniacs,

also originally you no more your neck of the woods, the ice Boston doubt I did a lotta, gigs and main yeah means a fascinating place because it's entirely abandoned yeah. There's I've come the cities and you have to drive like a vast difference. Says in between them. When you go from Portland Bangalore, here's a psych, fifty plus mile stretch were theirs nothin on the road. It's a two lane highway. There ain't shit on that road. No gas! No, nothing! If you don't have gas you're fucked did you ever not again Did you ever hear? There's a friend of mine, her dad's from main, and he has all these great main isms. And one of them is: oh, you gotta go up past Soyuz, ban and pass sawyers. Barn is any place that is far away, which is I think fucking makes a sort of like the version of the, Islamic. Seventy two virgins yeah right, like seventy,

this means a shitload of virgin. Yeah doesn't really mean the number seventy zero yeah. Well, you know what you're saying you have a parcel of virgin like there's a good chunk of virgin. Recently we get back to this african american culture. So how does it? How does it corrected? So what s happening is tat. What you have to do is is that you just have to have a much larger conversation about culture, and you have to talk about how culture works. You have to say it's not your fault right, because I The point is that unanimity in our atmosphere, we may our atmosphere and the reality is that you know these cultures are very old, that hurt or culture. Is the same one. That's the big irony is that you're not saying that it's about black people, it's about rednecks, whether their white rednecks were black reddened and so that huh culture has just inexorably tied itself into the african american culture without the African Americans, even knowing that it happened exactly, which is then

nature of culture and is also it's only tied itself into this very specific subset of Africa of Black culture, which is why The people in the West Indies have a complete answer at all. Why, and if you talk, if you talk to people, who are literally Africans who emigrated to America like from Ethiopia, Kenya, or anything like that? You know. If you get an ethiopian cabdriver so hard work and yeah talk to their talk to them about how they feel about that sort of ghetto black culture, those black rednecks. They hated ay fuckin hate it. And the point is this: because a gives them a bad name right. You know if people see a black person and they're like oh you're, like probably this this this this this because again, human stereotype, because of the Dunbar number cuz, we can only track two hundred and fifty people. And so we have to make up stories about some yelling half fit into this rednecks. That's right! Oh you have,

dukes of Hazzard T shirt on there. You are, and we do that- and you know that's the point. The listeners are going to be sitting here and they're going to be trying to categorize me and all of this sort of stuff- and you know part of what you're dealing with its you start about gender or anything like that and social Justice worries train, put you into some bucket near, like no all belong in that bucket you're constantly trying to say I'm not that bucket. So you can imagine if your ethiopian right. You moved here and you really sort of believe in the american dream land of opportunity and we work hard, and we all do this, sir stuff and you keep getting put nap block, will all sort of rap culture or anything like that. You're going to those like a Euro seek, and people want to be IRAN's right. Muslims bombed, yeah, nine, eleven I've been Sonny, near the same part of the world. Oh fuck nope, totally different headgear about to the person on the outside trying to categorize that's right, they're trying to make an incident, but but then that's! The point is that when you started

the conversation that is about culture, then you start to realise that race doesn't actually matter and you'll find is so. Let's take a look at, for example, agents right, Asians, do very well in school, there very productive and all that sort accept further Hmong right. So there is a group of people called the Hmong and their there. The big asian exception, and you know they do things on Hunter's, big time hunters you know, and there is a lot of violence, not a lot of education right. They don't sort of fall into that. Sort of you know stereotype of becoming engineers and DORA they from what part of the world there. Like Cambodia, Vietnam, like what used to be called Indo China, on how their own country now now there are their tribal grouping that sort of exists across National boundaries because in general you know. One of the great destructive forces in human history is the bridge Matt maker. You know what I mean like Europeans, just love a straight line

may I just can't get another the straight line, so they re just slowly, and you know like that. The straight line works in Middle America because you ve already wiped out all the tribes right, but it doesnt work so in Africa, where there are still tribes or South EAST Asia, where you suddenly start like drawing a line right between two tribal groups or across a tribal group and so only now shits all fucked up in there. What they're trying to do when they're having all these civil wars there trying to unfold the boundaries it. Lies are annoying yeah they. I was really hilarious when you get busted for transporting something prostrate lines like my allotted drive around this, what what's the flock and law? Let you have you have pot in particular whom you cross state line. You from being someone who is innocent. A hundred percent to someone is guilty, a hundred cent yup of a felony yup live there So bizarre I mean in one one tied states rights an amazing idea, protesting ideas out sure in our testing, our like with,

our ATO and legal marijuana. Again, that's right. It worked out, work, etc. Great people, when looked at working off it of all. It helps our re. Let's go yet and then it's it's sold the idea to other pay of answering. Other places like open, carry hey, are you sure, you sure, Conseil carry ok, you just have a gun on you everywhere. You go the other movie theater, but where are the places where that's true south? And that's because it it's again, it comes down to the what this is being driven by its being driven by old cultural baggage. That doesn't necessarily make sense, so the guy who knew so there's really in terms of honor cultures, therefore box right that I think that if you want to go into this, like don't get angry at me, just read the four blocks. Rather those books, those books are black, rednecks white liberals, Thomas souls books a coup

sure of honor, which is Richard NEWS, bits book. Jade events is hillbilly elegy and then a book called the short and tragic life of Robert Peace and those for books. Essentially, if you read those four books and you're still saying that. What I'm saying is unsubstantiated me, you know: well, then we should talk about it or their. Allow liberals that are up in arms. New proposed things are scrutinised, our brain up, their herd or culture know. What are the patriarchy? Racism would actually know race. He can't be racist or re people. That's why my favorite things of people saying today? What are you can't be racist white people, yeah, there's a lot of Avery things to say people, are saying a lot of weird and wacky shit. That's one of the wealthiest like, of course, you can That's the racism only works when someone has power, while when you're races to someone you have power over a period,

general power like what presumed across the board. Yet my black and white, real, real, simple, yes or no binary one or zero is our doing. Is that people, of course not enough coarseness? Of course not? Of course you could be racist, judge someone prejudicing well, and in fact that is the key thing with Richard Nisbett Book, the culture of honor. So Nesbitt was a professor in the nineties at the height of political correctness, and he wanted to study culture and the problem was that he's a white man from the south and he knew that if you studied any culture, you would have to say bad things, bout it? So what does Richard and do he says? Oh, I know one culture that I can say bad things about on a college campuses. I can say bad things about southern call, sure, dancing, culture I can criticise freely. And so what would you do? and you know this- I think it's really down to one of the strengths of units would have broadly northern and southern culture right and you know, Kennedy had John F Kennedy had this great line about Washington DC. He said that it was a city of

Southern efficiency and northern charm a number of passengers yeah, and you know that the potential for America's to be- country of southern charm and northern efficiency, but we're kind of got it backwards right now right. But so what witness bit is doing is. Is that he's charming the liberals right, which is what southerners do he's like? I'm gonna study culture, but I'm in a steady white southern culture and I'm gonna show how bad it is right, and so there are like okay that feel safe and comfortable right, That's essentially how he works this way into the conversation and specifically what he knew is he knew that southern culture had this very particular problem is very particular problem was that it had higher rates of homicide in very specific categories, so it had higher rates of you know, basically, killings round, trespassing and then killing

around you know, lovers triangles and so, for example, in nineteen. Seventy, if you found your wife in bed with another man in Texas, you could shoot him and it was justifiable homicide. Nineteen seven is a really only seventy. I thought it was really recent by maybe I mean that was that's that's my recollection, but I think that might still be a law theirs give a crime of passion LAW in Texas. I feel like that. For some reason, though they may just move move the name or something I don't know, maybe I'm wrong, but I know that people have been exonerate aha reaches of what you know: crimes a passion because of physiological pissed off and shoe people yet Argos crime of passion, legal, deaf, In addition, there is sometimes gotta love taxes. Since injuries net state are supposedly lenient to cook hold it love love that who wreak there on vengeance, erector on vengeance. The benefit

Eliminating premeditation is to lessen the provable homicide to manslaughter with no death penalty and limited prison terms. So that's crimes of passion. So it's not illegal, but it's a much lesser crime will, I think, in until seven It was actually just straight up justifiable homicide whistling straight our legal crime of passion, and now it's like a homicide. The man slaughter, and I M going to jail for six months yeah, but when you get out of the fuck, is that surveys they stay have allowed exactly dammit. It's that same psychology that plays out and so Nesbitt, and you know, and by by contrast in the north, there are a lot of what are called. There are more seven eleven murders which are basically murders or instrumental murders, which is where people kill people trying to get cash rightly trying to get rich right. So there these different, it's you know, there's homicide in both places, but their different types of homicides that predominate and Nesbitt. Essentially, you know that the big

thing was to figure out. Why is that true right? And the answer is that it's this culture of honour that comes out of hurting, and so the irony is that Southerners Hoover We often are the ones who feel most strongly about how problematic Muslims are, have the same culture and they do all these things. Could they don't do it to the same extent? because in general, America's much less violent place where it was more violent than they would be forced to adapt to the new culture as a right which is mad max die, that's right and what would happen the liberals, and when your resources are extremely limited, like you, wouldn't fucking desert, you're forced to become even more vicious, and I thought you were protecting your boundaries in your property and your resources

car? So again, how do we straight now, the African American and that's the point it's about problem with crime and violence and terrible atmospheres they have to imitate? Well, that's the point is that with a thing that allows people to move past, their cultural baggage is under standing their cultural baggage that answer of why it storytelling. I did this this environment because it made sense. We are no longer in that environment. Now it is problem attic to me. Therefore, it screws me so now. I should behave in this way and then you can start to retrain what you're impulses are. So you know somebody bumps you. You know Somebody comes on your land and your first impulse is not to go grab your shot, gun and kill them right and you dont worry so much of what it comes down to is crucially like their honour killings right. So those cultures are obsessed with honour and Pershing particular. What you hear with African about

just don't dismay, dont disrespect me right. So there is a real policing of one's honour and really making sure that nobody is fucking with me and it's the same thing with you. No white red next week suddenly right right, that's right! Texas, ride, don't mess with taxes noise, Delaware, Prime! Well! That's because if you mean today aware, there's main undermine pride, although do love main those fuckin porforio they do trapped up. There, frozen with blueberries and lobster and Stephen King, and saving. King yeah gun lesson is up for the summer summer, winters in Florida. Snowboard yeah, it's in many ways bad to not talk about this. So that is around people that have the issue with even discussing the origins of certain types of behaviour and comparing different types of black people and different types of african amount

and trying to figure out or Africa. Former slaves like. Why did the people? The West Indies, behave differently than the people in America and You know it opens up. This weird can of worms. Are people are are not willing to discuss it openly and that's taboo, and that is why cell called his book, black redneck white liberals, because the problem is it because white liberals were not willing to discuss these things. What ends up happening is this that you get african pride write it, and you know it was sold points out right way. His pride ever a good thing right pride is the feeling of that. You know it all that you have nothing to learn great. It's that feeling of arrogance, oranges, habit of blue from more actually you wouldn't. About all that live in your day. Dream Angolan when Europe shit but you'll have to in England the problem. It is a problem there, just cabbage rusted, that's a lot is melting ice age. I actually you what that? What would the we

the siberian candidate. What's things siberian ten, while people are saying Donald Trump as the siberian candidate, the harmonised? What do you think about this whole situation with Russia today? Because it seems like that, pork- Jerry does know how to fuck and get rid of that one guy who's, their main do as much as Gary Kasparov talks about that here. That is wondering that is going on in Tell Chiefs present Trump with claims of russian efforts to compromise yeah woe around this afternoon, like breaking news sort of thing and on the hop Britain russian efforts to compromise him well, they're playing to his ego, look at Us is eyebrows. Do you read the thing buses of but hold on a second back up their picture. Tell me: there's not a doktor shoes character, that's them who's that fuckin mayor, I mean he's just what's happening here

What is all the while they're presenting him. I wonder what he's going to do about all that, including alligator that russian operatives claimed to have compromising personal and financial information about Mr Tromp, multiple? U S! Officials with direct knowledge. The briefings tell CNN whom the allegations were presented in two page synopsis that was appended to report on rushed intelligence. The two thousand sixteen election, the allegations came in part from memos compiled by former british intelligence, operate whose past work? U S, intelligence, official official officials consider credible the FBI's investigating the credibility and accuracy of these allegations, which are based primarily on information from russian sources, but has not confirm. This is a weird time and it is a very weird time so fuckin so crazy to think that we're in a cold war

like how did we would duck that forever? I to the whole Clinton administration. That was a non issue yet through the entire Bush administration non issue through the entire administration, Non FARC and issue until two thousand Twelveth, and then he started here about it again. Well, a large part of what's happened is that our environment has changed, but our culture has not. So if you look at in the nineteen fifties rate, if you're talking about them, it places ideas. You had these guys, like Edra, Edward our Moreau and Walter Cronkite, and they had a thing called journalistic integrity right Brian Williams and William yet guy he's he's just This goes any alarm the guy. I can tell a good story, yeah exactly but journalistic integrity,

is now Don Lemon Don Lemon exactly what act. Lemon stepped back and respect him. Who is the czech people on our view? No no he's had a czech people had it's my favorite things over. Seventy there some was talking about something knows something about. I remember what it was. What was it? Wouldn't download, Samia Czech people had check some people. My life was like people caught up talking, sexist or something like that. He was just telling people he had to check people in his life. The fuck up Don lemon yard checking anybody anybody act tells you shut your mouth? What's so funny art? I guess something in this report that just came out, which is also going around now You got married. This report Trumbull allegedly hard prostitutes for a golden shower party on writs. Moscow where Obama Michel slept well. This is right out of the report. This highlighted: ok, here's as it were

picked a trumps engage with russian authorities. One which had borne fruit to them was exploit trumps personal obsessions with sexual perversion in order to obtain sustainable comp Matt compromising material on him according to source d? where, where ass, he had been present trumps perverted in Britain Brackets Conduct ask included hiring the presidential suite of the Ritz Carlton hotel where he knew. President. Mrs Obama, whom he hated in parentheses, had stayed on one of their official trips to Russia and defining the bed, or they had slept by employing our prostitutes perform golden showers. Urination show in front of him. The hotel was known to be under F S, be control with microphones into field cameras in all the main rooms to record anything. They wanted to holy Shit just go

the Ritz Carlton and they set up microphones and cameras. Oh yeah, that's the russian way off, but the real Carlton! Oh yeah, that's a crazy, but that's nature. I mean you know that if you jerk off the Ritz Carlton, what do you put a blanket or what I think that they raise the buggy camera. You have to put a bleed after, but a blanket over everything. Is there going to be a lot of cameras in that room? My friend MIKE, but MIKE's wick, whose affair we see fighter worked in Russia with the American Secret Service long time ago, and he said they found these listening devices it hidden inside bill. Things were powered by the movement of the building during the wind, like what

they have their own. Their power source is literally the building. Moving in the wind was pay said it was so far beyond anything, yet they had ever figured out that the Americans at figured out at the time and that which is all about surveillance. Well, that was the things that the Soviet Union did well right. They do. There were few things of the Soviet Union really put their attention on like space and surveillance and you know espionage and all that through south and the military, and they did. Those very well sounds like horseshit to me sounds like something somebody would say you try and make. It is from Buzzfeed, but it sounds like something someone woods but but the well it is not the right where's, the quote from the courts from the story was from Buzzfeed from other that's just. The actual report is where that was from that report that out they were talking about the previous article. We brought up from the roots from the Intel O shapes yea, but elsewhere

This is the report here. It's a good company intelligence report along: U S, presidential home, I'm sorry Rebecca theirs. Hundred percent factual? But that's the problem and that's the problem in general? Is that, like you know that the CIA engages in that sort of behaviour? Of course you know that the efforts be the Russians don't we have to talk about golden showers, apparently there's a thing we know We know we always known that intelligent agencies will distribute propaganda. We know that that's one hundred percent factual, but that's that the problem and that's the problem in general, is just that, like you know that the CIA engages in that sort of behavior. Of course, you know that the FSB, the russian Security Service, engages in that behavior, of course, who do you trust do you trust and that's the basic problem of twenty seventeen? Twenty succeed, one hundred percent who the low floor trust. You gotta know that if the, if someone- from any agency

telling you something, and why? What what would it serve them to tell you one hundred percent the truth without end manipulation whatsoever in order to gain favour in order to gain influence in order to gain and what what? What would the see. I have any motivation to be one hundred percent accurate about it. Why? Well I mean you know, I mean the CIA. Obviously, Donald Trump is not clearly a friend to the CIA Right, he's already made it clear that he has issues with the intelligence community, so why it sounds so crazy, is not even in the area and he hasn't been briefed by them and he's been rejecting that- and I mean that's the point- we live, you know the old chinese curse. We live in interesting times. Autonomy I think that now, when, if he, if it comes out that there was a bunch of Elsie, hired the piss all over the bed. People going to cheer him in the street well well, there's other people that loved them in the first

yeah. Another me a ton of m o cares. The guy had a good time yet another! That's because again it's clan it! You know it is culture of authority and grouping around and being loyal and all that sort of stuff horse and those those are the big sort of conservative. You know hillbilly redneck, intuitions right as opposed to liberals, are like let's care for everybody, amazing, let's not hurt anyone's feelings and, let's have trophies for participation, lets herself himself. A long time. You know the liberals have had a lot of power over the media and politics and all that sort of stuff, and so that's the rabbit hold at the country. When down, and now you know the conservatives have sort of you know gotten pissed off and you know have you know it's sort of like I mean in the ideal situation, the Republicans Democrats, work like mommy and daddy and you know it's not that mommy and daddy have it all figured out, but if mommy and daddy have a productive working relationship than the can, then these sort of like take

personal responsibility. You know man up like do all these sorts of things is counteracted by certain understanding, compassion and all that sort of stuff and then the poor Funding that emerges is better than what they would either of them would do on their own more. They can both get dysfunctional as fuck mommy becomes an enabling. You know, snowflake machine right, daddy just becomes an abusive asshole who won't pay child support, and just moraines is children in as like what the fuck is wrong with you grow the fuck up, crack pussy come on pussy That's that's really where America is mommy and daddy or fighting,

I know and fundamentally like mommy and daddy, are having the most dysfunctional relationship possible. Russia's are crazy neighbour, whose like what a great opportunity to come in and fuck money right, how Russia Triumph far more temperately sense, but it's also it's good for prudent, because what does the Godfather one, the godfather the did? So I think it's important understand, like the disaster of american foreign policy. Would that about right? And it's because modern Americans have grown up in you know essentially the most successful, most productive, most stable country, history, right and So you know, if you're, you know, as many generations into democracy is you are, there is not enough

understanding of how you get to democracy right. We just sort of inherited democracy and we're, like my, I don't know how you make one, and then you get these ridiculous fables that Americans have about themselves where they think that, essentially, you know, King George, the third was this awful vicious dictator, and then we kick the dictator and then democracy, and so that's all you have to do. Is you have to go in and you have to remove dictators and if we just keep removing dictators than democracy will emerge, will what happens when you Moves Saddam Hussein fact Yeah fills up with, I say, doesn't adolescent right or you know you remove Gaddafi right what happens vacuum yeah and then what happens? I say: ok, now, these sorts of things so that the big question that you know that has always been in political science and that France Fukuyama for it frames, as is that it's always been,

what it. Why is it that the American Revolution succeeded and the french Revolution descended into bloody violence, and the answer is that they were actually at two different stages of development at anchor. The answer is America, a major area and french bunch applause. I couldn't Paul it. Actually, that is good That's how free? for every fries kickback gulags. Yet so that's actually the answer and I'm sorry take back if you think that, earlier, but it is the blaming of you know. I'm not not necessarily blaming but understanding the router the behaviour as being cultural and that we have these ideologies, a big becoming prison too. Patterns of behaviour that we become imprisoned and that we're all such to anyone with an accent understands that this is where it comes from. The wee wee imitate

behaviour that its around us and if we're in around an area like we're talking about the Middle EAST, with poor research and was scarcity in a lot of violence. This is the time behaviour that we're gonna we're gonna control? Our women dress him up cover my like beekeepers, gonna keep em keep away from me at a swing index. That's fucking, assholes we're gonna come over the hill with swords and horses. That's right! Gazettes has been going on for ever exactly if you look at Iraq, one of the crazy stories about Iraq was Iraq's, be both Baghdad being invaded by the Mongols and then killing everybody up and running the streets, raw red with blood and black Bank, though the rivers would fuckin be filled with the the Lastly, in all the writings from all these islamic of fear in all these different different scholars. Who were far ahead of that asked the weather, the rest of that part of the world at the time? That's right, I mean so much mathematics, so much philosophies some some

Knowledge came from that part of the world. It was totally lost when they were invaded, and so much of it is that you know that the old there's, an old quote that floats around, which is that if Nobel prizes had been given out in the year one thousand, they all would have gone to Arabs downright amazing, as they were at the forefront in the point. Is that tells you something which is that success is not a permanent condition. Bright cultures can gain it and cultures can lose it and you better figure out what is it that makes a culture successful, so you can preserve those values, fight for those values and still them spread them. All that sort of stuff, and that's why Putin is jockeying for power, because he believes that there's a turnover gone all right. Now they hired a fuckin reality star to run the biggest nuclear arsenal? The world's ever known holy shit? This might be the time the and there there and that the

instability that has been created is that you know, if is that you know you gave everyone a microphone. That's what the internet is rang like we're literally sitting here right, and you know you can start a show and if people resonate with the show great- and the point is that there are some people like you who can hold two contradictory ideas and there had right- and you like wrestle with that and you're like man. How do I make sense of both of these? Things that you know capitalism is, you know, fundamentally generates wealth and prosperity and all that sort of stuff, but corporations can do fucked up things right. How do I reconcile those two different things and then a whole bunch of people out there on the internet, where a fundamentalist or who offer some sort of there, very simple narrative, that is very easy for people to get and people. Go and go down the rabbit hole of their prejudices. They can go down the rabbit hall of you, no care.

And compassion in the end up at Marxism right from when people can go down the libertarian, rabbit hole of freedom, and so they come up with his idea called a narco capitalism and a cap is the idea that we're just gonna remove all government and then the free market will solve all problems. Clearly going to be minimal or no government there, the most annoying people, their credit and annexes to me, the most annoying people like you, you don't know that that's gonna fall the shit. You don't know the people are gonna fix the streets where money for education come from who's, gonna higher cops, anybody know laws. All shut the fuck up? Well, but what I love battalion so stupid? Well, I got in a big fight over the Christmas holidays with a group of an arc of capitalists and was literally because one of them there's this it was. There are two things we interviewed there's this guy Peter chef in peace

ship is a little out of my. I am so anyway, so I interviewed Peter chef and we knew no part of the experience of doing this podcast with Brian Cowen. As you know, we interviewed in all these academics right two hundred and you know six of them right and then we had episode who oh six weeks, there are two things that we sort of noticed a there. Were all these amazing ideas be. You would find that any academic, new about his amazing idea and nobody else like that. About anything else that was going on in science or anything like that. Like Merrill's troop doesn't understand, Mme exactly so the marrow Streep effect through. I bet that academics are like and it again it actually comes out a sort of what the western cultural biases, which is towards this thing, called optimism right, like scientists, are soon were focused on a tiny, tiny question. They don't look.

The bigger picture- and we reached this frustration where essentially, we were like these ideas, you can't you know, there's an old George Bernard Shaw, joke about economists. He said all the economist laid end, and would never reach a conclusion and it's the same thing with academics, all the academics laid end. Would never reach a conclusion. All the science, the piles up, all this sort of stuff. What does it mean like? What should we do? How should we live our lives? How do we solve the problems of people in get us? How do we solve the problems of the people in the Middle EAST? How do we saw make liberals have some sort of perspective Legrand. How do we do these things? And that's you know science should turn into practical things.

In some areas. It does right. So you know, there's a good sort of you know. There's physics has said: Jason profession, engineering right and engineers go and they look at the laws of physics and they figure out how to engineer quantum computers and all the other stuff right. But when you talk about the Human Sciences, the adjacent profession that supposed to be there storytelling so there's was called the science to Narrative Chang, where you're supposed to take science all of this research and supposed to turn it into simple stories that people can understand and get, and there is in fact just to give you a sense of this problem like everybody knows that scientists aren't the best communicators right, like the ones that are people a meal, the grass Thyssen right you get on the show cause you're like man, a fuckin scientists who can communicate like a human right or Carl Sagan Orbit unit. These people are fucking. Unicorn right are very, very rare in the scientific community. So I had my very expert specific experience was I I, when a graduate,

college. I started tutoring just to pay my bills, but I was really trying to figure out. I had this weird experience. Where would you working with kids, and I would hear them say things like? Oh, I didn't get the mass Jean. I was like what the fuck is, that Marin cause. I was about chemistry, major Sunlike remit like you're. Third, pain and failing biology you're telling me that you have a math gene, and I just major biochemistry we don't know about any matching over there. So what the fuck you talking about someone's telling them some somehow there picking that are getting this idea. That's right, limited potential! That's right now, so that was a detective hunt that I went on. Was like there because there's a lot of these things. I don't have a natural ear for languages red, that's another big. When we Third- and you know

Oh I'm not a natural rider and all these sorts of things, and I was like water all these fucking beliefs right and I could tell that they were they were problematic and that they were self defeating. And specifically, you know, having moved between all these cultures, I'd seen that different cultures have very different ideas about intelligence, so especially if you like my mother and my father's side by side on the issue of learning languages. My dad is dutch. Ok. Now, when you're dutch, you grew up with one great certainty in life, just that no one will ever fucking learned when there no one has ever gonna fuckin learn Dutch. So if you want to get a job, and you want to be competitive. You better learn literally everybody else's fuckin language. So you know a routine and HOLLAND to speak three for languages, and you know my dad spoke and write. He studied tender for islands in his life. That's crazy! Well, in its it's actually there! Anybody who from a lot of these minority languages, sort of smaller shitty languages? You finally do that so poor.

Is routinely learn a lot of languages. People from South EAST Asia routinely learn a lot of languages. And again it's that environment like you lost the language lottery, and so you better make up for it like you're. Just gonna have to do that and at a certain point, when you learned three or four languages, it's now like oh you'd, like Sus this thing out, you're like oh, I get how this works like this is just about work and their certain techniques and certain approaches you start to get really really good at it. So you know I really sort of from my dad picked up this love of learning languages and my dad is, you know, sort of especially into languages like every time they even really like school and every time you would tell him he had to take another subject. He would look up another language to take so for his temple. He ended up taking Swedish because in the sixty

seventies. All the porno were made and sweet, and he wanted to know what they were saying between sexual thrusts Larry. So he learned Swedish. She learned all these fucking. Weird language is right because there there are like ok, you need me to take another class. I'm gonna do something that I enjoy right, but I'm pretty, nor an accent, but then, on the other hand, my mom's from Kansas and in Kansas, they don't speak foreign languages like that's, not the thing that's done, and so there would be this experience of. Like you know I, Japanese in high school, and I would be like oh yeah, I'm taking japanese and they go like what the fog like who are you and you taken Latin in ancient Greek and there, like that's fine, Can weird- and you know so, you're moving between these two different environments near like I feel like the issue here is that you just think about languages in different ways. I don't know that it's that you have different potential. You just have different attitudes to write, so

hearing all these kids say all these bizarre things, and you know at the time I was doing a tutor in company with a friend of mine from college, who is from new england- and you know the New England is that Puritan culture right? It's you know all self Nile, no fun work hard. All that sort of stuff so she also heard all these weird and wacky beliefs- and she was like you Know- reacted in the most puritan way possible, which is like you just being fuckin lazy for what is happening in Europe are going to work, no excuses right. Isn't that Boston attitude at so Evelyn attitude, and so you know you ve got this Bostonian and then you ve got this half dutch half American. You know, lived with the lie means you know all this sort of stuff right and where, like where the outside or its that experience, you talked about of foreigners who come to America or anybody and we're like this culture of L. A is fuckin, weird know what brought you here.

Well, I always wanted to move to the West Coast. So you know I watch triggered last night and I grew to California is the best place on earth, but Burton really cause. I mean you know I mean it is the what part of what I found like a lot of what I was racking against right. You leave places cause, there's like something you dont like, and the road at the most opposite place you can find, and so I didn't like the culture of England, I didn't like aristocracy. It didn't like that whole class system I fucking hated it and then, when I went to Boston in New York, I felt like there is still a lot of that sort of hierarchy, and I think that a is the place where it's like. Nobody gets a fuck where you come from like there isn't that hierarchy. You know all that The doesn't matter, it's the wild less, and I love that it definitely has a lot of ways and means to me. I think it's the last place that people we know

landed on the east coast. They made their way the West Coast and allow women. Why? Yes, it is well say exactly nets, litter and the people that did moved to Hawaii. That's why yet mean I I fuckin love Hawaii wanna things I love about. It is the ex paths that are able to go. You know what man fuck it yeah fuck it I'm just out here now yet and that's that's the culture that I always wanted to be a part of was the culture that it's like who the fuck cares like we're done with that shit, but Hawaii too much right. Well, you know I mean I probably should have gone to Hawaii Zadig, it's hot, while at sea, like now, it's more viable than ever before. Yeah gives the internet in jest of a pretty much access evenly to everything other than like? What's immediately in your area, but also- and I think, also its import to talk about like how to humans actually work right, and it's often that you know I mean so a large part of what comes out of the sciences, that thinking and feeling are always linked, written so often driven by feelings that we can't quite explain

so you know the. Why was I also motivated by allay, I think there was some attraction to the entertained, the mystery comedy storytelling, I dont, really you know like. If you being really honest like why the fuck do you make any decision that you make when you're twenty to twenty three right right leg, you just announced their stand there, some sort of cultural baggage, that's dry, having you there. They watch Baywatch like exactly what you have some sort of fantasy version. It is the final mask of its assent, or where do you think there are no cats in LOS Angeles constraints are paid to achieve, and then you get You're, like they're fucking Scientologists everywhere, will do that's the one of the things I want to talk to you about before we likely I wanted to talk to you about your you're calling Richard Dawkins Scientologist YAP, so that the larger, so we ve now gotten a taste

some of the things that are going on across science right, there's, lots of really exciting stuff can actually change and improve and help peoples live. But one of things I think he pointed out- that's incredibly critical- is that two or in order to be at the top of your field yeah, you must be completely absorbed in their particular subject and oftentimes a lot. Like all the other systems, that we find the limited resources- and I really don't have the time or the end or even the inclination to study all these other comparable sis arms or different disciplines, or take mean that theres. Many many many many examples of that, but singular folk. Says which usually leads to greatness and when you, reading about some professors, peer, reviewed That's currently groundbreaking oftentimes you're dealing with a form of greatness, and that requires massive tunnel. Well, it that's the interesting thing. So we should talk about what tunnel vision is right, so

there's. You know, just as we have optimism pessimism there are. These other two might sets optimism and wholesome right and Adam is the seeing the tree right. You like ignore the fucking, for rest and you're, just like I'm gonna, look at that one fuckin tree and become the world's expert in that and then there's hole is in, which is seeing the big picture seeing the forest seeing all that sort of stuff. Now again, everybody has these mindsets, but different cultures favour them differently again because of the environmental pressures of that environment. So the Greeks massively favoured optimism, and if you look at the behaviour of the Greeks right, the ancient Greeks are constantly picking everything apart. Right because they were pirates, heightening pirates and traders and fishermen and in that environment it's not about co op. Nation or anything like that. It's about everybody just trying to get ahead for themselves and all this for some very individualistic all that stuff, and so when they would at least have leisure time. What were the things they

dead, while they would go and they would go into the market place and they would argue with each other and pick a part, each other's arguments, and they would just pick pick pick pick pick pick pick and that's what logic is in rhetoric and all that and then they would also you know when they had other ledger time, they would go and see who could throw shit farthest right like who could run fast as it's all about standing out? It's all about trying to excel and be the best. And what happened? Is it that you know the is during the renaissance, the they salient renaissance or falls in America's Renee Sounds were so what word? What is one of the american way? I want to fit in grasslands, renaissance, renaissance, rain authority Paris lower like the renaissance, Batty Harris Paris, France, safer ass. Now

France from France Legislator really channel my inner Kansas out are the renaissance. Well, when every one of fuckin caller right. What are you birth, the writer threat, or they basically were obsessed with the Greeks and they were absent. The Romans were obsessed with the Greeks and then, when the rebirth of one s also happened. They were absent, should the Romans and the Greeks, and so they became obsessed with this culture, and that's how you start to get this culture of individuals and that develops the founding fathers were obsessed with that, and so that becomes a lot of the spirit of the way Last right is this real atavistic culture? Meanwhile overrun Asia, right they have different incentives, which is rice farming. And so what happens? Is that rice farming is? You know you have to be super cooperative, because the water runs down the mountain that runs through my paddy field, but then it runs through your neighbor's. How do you feel that all that sort of stuff, so I have to have relations with

I neighbor and that neighbour, and then I have to think about how it affects the next guy in the next day and the next and the next, so they favour whole ism. How does everything fit together? And so, if you look at what is eastern culture about what are those an asian cultures, about its all about Union Yang things fitting together in complimenting at all being part of a larger system and confusion, is was all about the family relationships and everybody has their proper role and you all sort of to belong and all tat sort of stuff right so which set of biases. Do you think that science has baked into its culture, adamant, yeah? And so what? When you get the structure of scientific culture as it stands today, its super animistic right Now, if you look at things like economics and psychology in you, biology in all of these sorts of things. There all studying natural world and in fact there is a whole bunch of disciplines that are all studying humans and

they behave and all that sort of stuff, and yet there all broken up into separate disappear. And now there should have doubling down on those intuitions and there now breaking up those disciplines into sub disciplines and smaller disciplines and smaller disciplines and left to their own devices, still just keep splitting up. From getting smaller and smaller group? Where does feminism? I well, but they that's. I mean out the What what happens is that as you smaller and smaller and smaller disciplines that it doesn't? necessarily make the science better. It can make the science worse. And the reason why it makes a science worse. Theseus Wade understand it is the story

blind men in the elephant right. So this is an old story about from India about religion, so group of blind mendous I come along. They decide to figure out the elephant. So this what this thing is right. They don't know it's often so the first one comes up and he feels the tale any filthy ended any feels little hare is at the end. He says it's a rope right in the second one goes along and he feels the trunk and a rise in his hands and he jumps back start on these. Like it's a snake right and the third one feels a leg, he thinks to column the fourth one feels the side. He thinks the wall and then the fifth feels the ear and decides that it's a palm leaf. And then they all proceed to beat the shit out of each other, because clearly everybody else a fuckin idiot and they need to die because they Oh, that it's a rope! It's a snake! It's a lag! It's a wall, it's a column whatever it is right now, if you look at something like feminism right, feminism is making certain claims about biology riots

can claims about how male gender works, how female gender works. You know they should be looking at things like genetics and they should be looking at. You know chromosomes in there be looking at evolution to see how evolution might have selected for differences in men and women, because there are different competing sure, as for men and women, and in fact, if you go into you, no actual science you'll find that there is actually lots of science about that. But what's happened is that feminism has become its own tribe, right and as a tribe. It rejects the findings of other try right. So I, if I go into you, know the circles of feminism or sociology, or you know any other tribe, and I start talking about you- know the evidence of some other tribe there, like. Oh, that, doesn't count right. It's easy!

rationalize it away, and so now we are no longer grounded in reality, and what we can do is we can take that tail and we can convince ourselves that it's a rope right because we're not accountable to all of these other fields that surrounding it. So make sense. Yes. So what? If you want to solve the problem? What you have to do is that you have to make each discipline accountable to all the other disciplines you have to make people responsive to evidence outside of their field. So if you take someone like Richard Dawkins Right has Richard Dawkins gone down his particular rabbit hall of Fame.

Hang out, you know his tiny piece of the world. Yes, he has done that and what makes you think that? Well, I can tell you so in general, what you're going to find is that there's in a lot of different fields, you're going to find that there are two competing theories right now, so, for example, if you look in economics there's this idea, you know there's sort of what are called classical economics and they have this idea called rational agent theory and they basically think it's a reasonable approximation to assume that people are national right that the act as rational individuals and all this sort of stuff- and then meanwhile there's another school called behavioral economics and because of An economy in an aim is diversity, who were these two israeli psychologists, the nineteen seventies restored to study human rationality, and I am sure this will come as a huge surprise. But what they found is that humanitarian tat, repression,

right, and so there was a group of experts. Economists who say hey our whole discipline is based on this idea of rational agent theory. But when we look at psychology that assumption doesn't check out- and it leads to a whole bunch of bad conclusions, so they formed a new school of Economics called behavioral economics which is based on all the findings of cycle Gee, how humans actually think and all that sort of stuff. Now these two schools or warring right there to fighting tribes, but what ends up happening is that they can't solve that discipline. They can't solve that acted act, but in the context of academia right they fire papers back and forth. Lots of discussions or had in all its forms But essentially you have a recurring problem in science, which is that scientists won't let go of their pet theories. They won't let their theories die and MAX plank. The physicist had this famous quote that he said science proceeds one funeral at a time.

An essentially what happens is that science isn't progress, because you know people are like hey new evidence came out turns out. I was wrong, now I'm going to change my mind because it's their theory, and so they keep on fighting for funding their theory until their dead, and then the discipline is like. Ok, now that that guy's dead are that was dumb all along. Let's move forward interesting, so ego becomes a sort of trap, huge problem, huge problem for science and general, and so, if you look at, for example, that rational agent theory dispute there's a that one of the big founders of behavioral economics, this guy Richard sailor, basically, you know he tells a great story in the story. Is that he's at a dinner party and at this dinner party? There's this famous economists, on the whole rational agent theory camp- and this there's also like a bunch of other academics like a psychologist.

And so the guy who believes in rational agent theories going on and on about how fucking dumb people are right, how a rational they are so he's hang on about his own wife. He says my wife is so a rational. She I bought a new car, but she won't drive it and that makes no sense cause she's worried about dinging, but she's already paid for the car. She should use it God humans or saw a rational, and then he goes and my students, my students, so fucking dumb right. They can even understand the most basic. You know economic concepts and all that that's herself and so the psychologist pipes up and says how come all the people in your theories are geniuses, but all the will, you know in real life are idiots and that's a problem. That's a real problem for your theory right because you

Arabs, observations about reality do not fit your theory. But what is this guy do? Does this guy say you know what I'm going to fall on my sword, I'm going to throw out thirty. Forty years of work on a bad idea, so he's not going to say that instead, what he does he does, what rich Taylor calls the invisible hand wave where he proceeds to waive his hand and say well. You know there might be some. Ash banality, blah blah blah blah, but in the end market sort things out and that's he's rationalizing scientist rationalist humans, rationalize they wanted to send their own most cherished ideas, and so that's not. This is not a problem of Richard Dawkins is a problem of humans right and if humans have power and intellectual power as a form of power, and it's not act. They will continue to rationalize their bad ideas. So, specifically, what bad ideas is Doc international as well so there's you know, the intellectual dispute is this, so in the

nineteen sixties. There was this idea of group selection, but it was very fuzzy, and it was a shitty version of group selection right, which is the idea. The natural selection happens not only at the level of genes, but also at the level of human groups and the idea that slut it is happening, many many many levels and so Dawkins in nineteen. Seventy six rights, this big important book, the selfish gene and its basically that you actually don't need group selection to make sense of a lot of behavior. You can just use with called kids action, so, for example, you might do something nice for your sister or you might potentially, you know, die to save your sister, but we can make sense of that at the level of genes, because, essentially you know you. Sisters shares many of the same Jean. So you know you don't need this idea that groups matter now, since then, what's happened is that there are- and this is a large part of what the problem is- that some people read that book, including Jeff Skilling and they concluded that what they

means is that the way to get ahead is to be selfish. Just going, the ceo of Enron writing you'll, hear in business circles. You'll hear this. This idea of, like oh, it's all about law of the jungle, kill or be killed like that's. How you get ahead You know survival of the fittest, so confirmation by so the exact confirm their ideas about cuts, riding in business. That's right and skip. You know that's what, killing probably wanted to believe, and so he read Dawkins Block and he's like. Ah now I have intellectual credibility for what I wanted to do anyway and so soon lying runs Enron based on those ideas, and what has That's what he said. What skilling? Yes! so he said that he based on darkens idea. Well, I said that the selfish Jean was his favorite book. Ok, I've unite to find out. I don't know exactly everything that skilling his right, but he said it was his favorite book and it is in general, a big problem. Science is the big magic of our time right like its. If you want to justify like them,

when they try and justify their if the sort of feminist who try and say that cheap nor does it matter- it's also for constructive. They try Do it all in terms of science right when the not do that win? What what science? To that point too? Well, they have. You know some sort of idea of culture or whatever. But these other alot of I Is that masquerade as science right? So you know the knots the eugenics movement you know the Nazis that was TAT was based on some sort of idea that they thought was science at the time. You know the Soviets had this guy Sancho. Who was the opposite, and he believed that you know genes could be. Like he thought you could literally shock and electrocute seeds to make them do what you wanted them to do cause genes in really matter, and it was all conditioning right or you know, behaviour ism right was bf skinners. Idea, which was the idea that it was all stimulus response, the human minded and eggs

there were: no beliefs and all that stuff and a lot of the way that education, for example, that a lot of the educational pace, choices that are made in the fifties were based on skinners ideas, which then fox up ahead. A bunch of kids. You know either what ends up happening is that either science supplied or its misapplied or its misinterpreted or people. You know read a particular scientific study and dont have the contacts on it and so you know these bad ideas permeate and their applied, and all that sort of stuff right, and so the debate for example, of round rational agent theory is not some act. Is an academic debate but in addition to being an academic debate, economist supply, those ideas- and we know the public needs to if the public once it's it's experts and its leaders to make the right decision,

that has to hold them accountable on their ideas, and so you know, if, if you have you, no science also has to police who has their backing right and it needs. It has responsibility to communicate to the public. What is the best scientific understanding available today, so Skilling takes the sun The genie runs with that and clearly that's thinking that was very popular in the seventies and eighties. The me generational lets herself so that selfish Jean sort of slots into a culture that is already sort of looking for that to be true right and it lends this credibility and what has happened and is that the science has now moved on to to decide.

You have multi level selection and a lot of what we ve been talking today in terms of how group's work and how culture works is all based on those ideas and there's a whole group of academics and a whole bunch of different disciplines that have these ideas, and you know their people like John High people like Joe Henrik. People like David Wilson, who's, the big multi level selection guy and when you put all of their words Daniel Common Right, AMOS Diversity, Nautilus, on and on and on, but when you put all these ideas together, you get a really really compelling narrative. Now Dawkins says that his work was misinterpreted and that essentially the you know just killing misunderstood as work now doc and says very clearly in the selfish gene that you know our natures selfish right. So I mean that's, that's seems pretty clear

I don't know that just feeling entirely misinterpreted, but what David Sloan, Wilson and multi level selection people are saying something very simple and he'll Wilson said this is well, which is that Alturas selfish individuals be altruistic individuals, but altruistic groups beat selfish groups. So if you want to get ahead right, you can get ahead by being a selfish, ass hole and fucking everyone right. But if you have a group that is based on selfishness and you're, trying to fuck everyone, then your group going to fall apart and it's going to lose out to an altruistic group. So if you compared side by side, a company like Enron and a company like Pixar, which you can read about in creativity, INC you're going to find that they have two very different in Byram,

right, Pixar is fundamentally a cooperative environment is a high trust environment. Everybody works together. You know all of that sort of stuff and it's a sustainable company that year after year, turns out great films and does great work and all that stuff. Enron is a toxic environment, because everybody is just trying to get head. There is no eye and team there, just fucking each other, and so the thing blows up now again. Science has a responsibility to communicate clearly and watch would happen. I think, in terms of our economy, not blowing the fuck up right in terms of corporate, nations, not engaging that's where toxic behaviour is that you know, I don't have the authority cause, I'm a nobody right. So I can't come out and say this is what science In fact, there is literally no human alive today that can come out and say what science is, because people can only come out and speak about their tiny field. Right, there's, no consistent message:

signed by solar, Stamwood Dawkins is arguing against because didn't he also argue for cooperation in this public. Wasn't one of the chapters of his book nice guys finnish first well, but he refused to acknowledge this idea of group that group selection happens right he's. Refusing to acknowledge, like what is is as actual statements houses. Well, I mean the the larger academic debate is like so specifically He rejects the idea that, and it's important to realise that the group selection people are not denying can selection, so they're not deny darkens is work right. Their building off of Dawkins is work and staff. There's this extra fact right

but how do they describe that extra for they described that effect as selfish individuals out compete, altruistic individuals now interest groups are compete, selfish groups right, but if you, if, if you were to have Richard Dawkins in this room to day, he would not agree with that statement, what would you think he would say that selection does not happen at the level of groups and will be the? evidence prone con. Well, ultimately, what I would like Joe and the reason why I called him a scientologist is because you know what should happen in academic debate. Is that idea should die right that the point of scientific progress is one should live in one one should die right. It's thunder dumb too, it is enter. One ideas leave right now. The point is that that's not happening in science, what's happening. What happened at that dinner Party with Richard Thalers, two ideas entered and two ideas:

and, in general, that's a big recurring problem in science happening in economics and its also happening in evolutionary biology, now. The point is that I'm single individual, I can't be annex an expert in all the nuances and all the details of all of these things, but what I can do as I can show you the general pattern that happening I can show you what the consequences are for you of these beliefs, not changing so the area in which I do know. The most right is the area of education, and you have some daughters. I believe that true yeah, so these beliefs, that your daughter's have about their intelligence, whatever those police may be, as of today will have a huge effect on the choices they make in school. The choice how they do in education, what their experience of school is whether they're happy in school, whether there,

reductive, whether these successful and whether their set up for a knowledge economy, which is all about constantly learning to they emerged from school hating school or do they emerge from school. Loving school did they emerged from school with confidence they can learn. What has ever is required or do they feel it? they can only be good at some things are not good and other before we get too far off track are distressed. I'm still confused as to how you feel Dawkins is ignoring the arguments against his work. Like what what what are his old hastens he's denied is denied this idea of groups election, but he had a debate with him but ass. They have had to seek an watch somewhere, listen dwell, there have been debates and you know what has happened is that you know they like, for example, the what the debate is currently his. The debate is currently about how many people are on each side, so John Height, for example, on SAM Harris's, Podcast and SAM Harris would agree with Richard,

darkens right and John High. You know they John heightened SAM Harris, disagree on multiple things right, they ve had many disagreements in the whole point of their pod cast was to try and have a civil conversation, and you know, John High. Said in a difference between you and SAM. You and I sam- is that I'm an an intuition, Senor Rationalist right so SAM John John Height, believes, and if you look across the science, I think this is what supported is that a thinking and feeling are always linked, so we're always being driven by his intuitions. Even if we don't always understand that There is, on the other hand, this idea of Descartes's error, which is the idea that Descartes came up with that reason, an emotion or separate, and there are a lot of that's what the rational agent theories about. The idea that you know there's reason its separate from most. Are these mutually incompatible though? Yes, then? That's the point of science? Is that you're supposed to kill certain ideas, so others Descartes's errors?

typically comes from there's this book by Antonio Di at USC and it's its based on a series of experiments around this guy named Elliot and people like him and so Elliot. Was this Munich banker, financial guy, happy family man, all this sort of stuff and He had a brain tumor, and so they chopped it out. The brain tumor was right here right up at the top of a basic knows and at first it seemed like chopping out. This piece of his brain had done nothing right, hadn't affected him up totally disposable bit of brain, didn't really have a function. Look at that it was just an optional accessory like the appendix of the brain, but then what happens as they come to find out that all of a sudden Elliot has all these problems, even though his I q is unaffected, even though his verbal intelligence is not affected. Right what's happening is that he is he's making all these terrible decisions,

he believes, is why first stripper, he snobs it that's out actually who Elliot as he has this now this guy, and it's because you had cancer, so don't make fun of an air yeah, but You know he his business research. We keep spit. Decision making falls apart. He falls for all these con man he's making all these horrible choices any can't decide where to go to lunch. So what ends happening. Is that eleven, a m he'll trying to side? Where am I gonna- go to lunch, and now by four p dot m lunch has passed and it's because he sat around and tried to calculate rationally. Where should I go to lunch right? He thought about. Oh, you know. Should I go based on tables and calories and all this sort of stuff, and he couldn't make a decision, and the reason why? Because this bit of the brain that was removed turns out, is what links thinking and feeling it's your ventral medial, prefrontal or tax admit deciding where to go to lunch is influence constantly by our emotions, because you know you have you feel like

I or you know you feel like something light or you feel like a meatball, sob or whatever it may be. Where you feel like. If you go to this restaurant, you run into that really hot waitress or whatever it may be, so that alone with the work of Daniel Conniston and AMOS Diversity and the work of people like John High there is now an immense amount of information that basically understands that Descartes who live four hundred years ago was me. King shut up when he came up with his theory of the brain right in his theory of the brain of this idea of reason and emotion which floated around in the west for ages and ages and ages. It doesn't fit the evidence now. That's the basic problem is this that, and I will tell you, having worked with students, your ability to improve their lot, once you understand that thinking and feeling are always linked goes massively up because now Students are time you, I don't have the math gene or I don't have an actor.

You're for languages, I don't waste my time dealing with that rationalization. Instead, I asked the kid: how do you feel about math right? How do you feel about your teacher and we start to deal with the feelings and we start to soar through the feelings till we get the feelings lined up in such a way that you are making the right choices. And that's that's for me, the heart is that their that's! That's the problem that I first came to this from was education and all the when you talk about these kids or sort interrupted, but it seems almost like you're talkin want a user operator error. It's like they there just programmed incorrectly, didn't know how to view the world by their culture, their cultures fucking them. And thereby saving and no in its end and that's what you have to understand is that you know that's human hardware, Doesn't human hardware has not really changed in the last hundred thousand years, but human software, the culture that we picked up, has evolved over time rise constantly.

Change and its constantly changing and now, especially because the environment is changing so fast because of technology. In all these sorts of things up tat filters, we need to change the culture fast and we need to change the culture intentionally and they're so, but who decides how their culture gets? Changes is Donald Trump or in our minds in its and it's not either of us. It's should be the group right and the point is to spark a conversation so that we can have this conversation. But the point is that there are certain it Democrats who are going to try and stand in the way of that conversation and will use their authority to try and shut down that conversation because they're trying to defend their pet theory in whatever discipline, did it and as we come back to documents- and this is darkens, but the point is to recognise its not about Dawkins, particularly and if you want to get into the woods on like you know, of the nuances of all this sort of stuff. You should get our either do its own Wilson or John Hydro, Joe Hen reckon they can like, take you through the whole thing, but and the basic problem is that there is a lot of science that is really really

useful. But you know one man can't figure it all out possible impossible it and you can't hold onto a theory now you have to expose it to the marketplace of ideas. It has to be tested and at what I can do, because a lot of this comes down to what's permissible in the culture science. So, if you've got guys like you know, you can go if you want to go and like read about what David Sloan Wilson, the saying and all of these guys got to go, read their books with your excellent. You can also go to David Sloan Wilson, because he has also seen practically how much of these ideas can make a difference in people's lives and actually make people's lives better. He's also trying to popularize this so. He has a whole website. You know this view of life and Evo and all this sort of stuff. If you want there's a great article by Peter Turkey, whose another guy and he'll take You threw some of this stuff around Dawkins and all this stuff. But what my my goal with all this stuff with Thomas souls work with,

you know Davidson Wilson, John High, you know Karel de waxwork, which was launched this education stuff is, is that I know that it's not realistic to expect people to that. I can't justly put a list on the internet of fifty bucks and be like everybody has to read these. Fifty bucks, like people have other shit to worry about right, but if you just subdued daunting concerning offer that just suggested enough, people Will the ideas will start to permeate. Will you also what you're good at what you run into, and this is part of what I ve run into with education? Right is so you know, along with Katy my bostonian friend, we took seven different fields of neuroscience and psychology, and we condensed them all into one block that we wrote to the teenager as we wanted to have a message problem is most these books are written to adults, and you write the book the adult they don't read said the parent reads it nearly all is so great and then now they're in the uncomfortable convert position of like having to have a conversation about school with kids, and then the ideas die, the ideas don't move, so we were

I let skip the middle man and le or middle woman, and let's right straight the kid what's. The book is called the straight a conspiracy and the reason why we called it straight. A conspiracy is because we at the time were working with the son of a guy named stand. Rojo, who was the executor, produce, run Lizzie, Maguire and we'd being this is the power of emotions by the way like Super brothers, Lizzie Maguire, Lizzie Maguire was like that hate Hilary Duff, kids TV show in the nineties. It was like super big, it was them. Cyrus low like or early two thousands, I think they re so we'd. You know we were struggling with. How do you have a conversation about education and school in your potential,

all these sorts of things with kids- and you know our intuitions or worse, or of the classic teacher intuitions, which is like you can do. Your main saying, like you, have so much potential and we were hat, was sat down withstand and stand said, listen ivy, making kids tv for a long time, and if I've learned one thing about teenagers, it's this their lives suck, they may not suck in any sort of objective sense or any sort of geographical sense for any like that, but an emotional subjective level they suck, and so the only thing you can ever tell them that they will believe is that they ve been lied to, and so that's what we did and he said you're the title of your book is the something conspiracy I don't know it is right, and so we went away and we did the straight a conspiracy and run other than getting kids to believe them believe in themselves. We got them to doubt their doubts and once you got them doubting their doubts, then you know all the things that they believed about math chains. Is that really true how

no that brow like is that really you know I'll, etc, and then you get that process where are now starting to question things, and you know we did. The first chapter is all about genius. Myths which are you know. I sense very clever, marking schemes that again rely on that thing of all. So if you look at some, one like Steve Jobs right. Steve jobs was very smart, marketer right and he created this image right. This you know, cult of personality around himself, which is that you know he made himself seem like this gene, yes, who out of nowhere, came out of all these things. People called in the I got in the cult of MAC and what is the effect of all the effect of OZ, blind copying. We just had to have that MAC Product and in that he was copying the play book of another guy much much earlier, Thomas Edison, who, in his own time created the so called of personality,

round himself and at the time was known as the Wizard of Menlo Park. But in reality, did s and invent the light bulb know he did not. The light bulb was around forty five years before he was even born. Edison ripped off Tesla leaves it act. Blockhead. You watch drunk history, recede Duncan Brussels version of now history, its on Niccolo, Tesla, Thomas Edison, yeah, Thomas? As being a cunt, yet amazing, and so and that's the point, is that you know these. These. These people were people, and you know the myths that you have about. Geniuses are actually clever advertising schemes but the problem is that it's an ad jingle that that is so good that we ve centrally had that jingle catch trapped in our heads for hundreds and hundreds of years. So there is, I d is that are passed on like Edison had a thousand pants, whose name before heat by the time he died. He did that's because when you set up an industrial research lab, you make sure that your name is on all the patents, because that's the whole point of employing a bunch of people is

You know you wanna only IP and that's true. For you know, Mozart was the Michael Jackson of the seventeen hundreds Isaac Newton. You know they basically knew that they couldn't sell the idea is of gravity, so they sold Newton is the man the sky, who had this great vision, blah blah blah the story of the apple and all that bullshit and then Einstein? You know they needed to package the new physics that was being done by lots and lots of physicists like Heisenberg and Plank and all that sort of stuff. But there was this guy Arthur Haddington who knew he couldn't sell that so he sold the idea of a boy wonder with crazy hair who had beaten Newton and was displacing Newton point as you go and you talked of physicists and I'll. Tell you well not true, like Einstein didn't really displace Newton right, we still

use, newtonian mechanics. We only use einsteinian mechanics when we start to get near the speed of light right. So there are all these marketing these marking schemes right, but in the market place of ideas. Part of what happens is that you know there are these big public intellectuals like Richard Dawkins right and they have a lot of power and it becomes very difficult challenge them and in particular, I dont think that anybody particularly wants to go up against Richard auctions. Right here is a sacred cow. He is a sacred cow and if you go up against the new atheists or you challenge anything about the new atheists- and I have you know, I, like the the whole rationalist intuitions thing, because I've been trying to talk about emotions on our part, podcast, and I said no hey look, you don't have to believe me, there's this guy John Height is a big famous scientists and all that stuff there's, this guy SAM Harris who has a phd in neuroscience? But John High is saying rationalist versus intuitions, there's a difference right and I want

talk about that and I'm gonna tell you that. I think that, in light of the evident SAM Harris is wrong- and I got a whole bunch of angry tweets from a guy named at atheist sense Retaining the tell me that I was a fucking idiot. Blah blah blah on what did I know and how arrogant I was and how dare you and all this sort of stuff, but What do they understand? Your argument. I didn't really so what did you just jump out you because the five year questioning his boy, you right here the terror that reason, emotion or separate, and then I moved out to allay- and I was in an acting class and a move from an invite, is like he said. What do you even talking about, SAM Harris knows that most people are being Emotional, most of the time but the issue isn't what SAM Harris knows about other people? It's what SAM Harris believe about his own brain right and SAM Harris Muse Really- and this is not SAM's fault as an individual. Just as none of the cultural stuff tat we ve been talking about his fault, I went

I was in college. I also believed in this whole idea of Descartes error that reason, emotion or supper, and then I moved out to allay- and I was in an acting class- and I move- an environment that worshiped reason to an environment that worshipped emotion right. That's what actors do all day they fucking talk about their feelings, And so for somebody who had come from that environment? It was super fucking annoying, I feel, actors really really annoying because they would not stop talking about their feelings and piss me off a piss me off a piss me off and this the point I got so annoying. I was like you fuckers, don't know what the fuck you're talking about the real authorities are scientists, so wanted do, I went off when I read the scientists and I found out that the actors were right and it was fucking humiliation and urge them. While they were right how they were right about the importance of emotions, emotions are hugely important. They drive thinking here. But that's not what these actors are doing and that you know

just being emotional, because its indulge their either being indulgent and they're not managing their emotions, were what you're supposed to do right, but what you find, for example. So here is a simple thing. You know why is a reason why we say that in it and then You know that intersected with working with students right. So, if you say example. Students say I feel stupid turns out that stupid is a feeling, specifically its the feeling of shame and care, and so on and also being ineffective in your intellectual pursuit and a sense of our house will assess all that's. Research must feel inadequate, that's right, and it is specifically to feeling called learned helplessness right enough in academic circles, There are terrible names for everything right so, but the the feeling of shame motivates a very specific behaviour, which is that you avoid the source of their shit, you're Sheng. So when students get back a bad tasked, what they do is they want it up and they throw it away and they avoid man they avoid math right now. The point is that

that is that behaviour is literally the worst response. You can have to failure right refused. Growing up in math or any other subject what you should be doing is getting out your mistakes. Analyzed, your mistakes and using them to get better, and so that very simple thing is what we did with all of our students. We sat them down. We made them confirm, their mistakes. We made them say: ok, number three: why did you get number three wrong and then you figure out why number three were is wrong. You fix that now how suppose what SAM Harris believes. The point is that does SAM does if, if an atheist send say- and I will tell you that I think that I read your senses- pretty rightness a sense in his assessment of what SAM Harris Belize about like most people are emotional most the time, but I dont think that SAM Harris believes thinking and feeling are always linked so that his brain is all know this for a fact of you discuss this with him, because I'm not gonna tax from him and Bob Fuckin filed fucking file and tell you, for example, okay, so

how does SAM Harris feel about God or how to SAM Harris feel about religion, though pretty open, ended question. Will lend Taylor doesn't believe in religion and thinking Sir believes in any form of a deity. Well, sought as no evidence for that. Let's talk about it. I know that you have a relationship with SAM but K, but I am forget about that. Will all I why those questions and will also, if you look at let's look at, for example, you know you're your friends, the inertia capitalists right, libertarians right who just want to get rid of government brain and they're just trying to get rid of all government writer. So what is that? What is that thinking about? What is that psychology about, or any sort of or muslim fundamentalists who just want to get rid of these western influences? They basically think that a certain thing is bad and their constantly trying to strip it out strip it out strip it out strip it out. Ok, that's the nature of fundamentalism, Coca and Richard Dawkins and SAM Harris are eighty

fundamentalists and specifically Richard Dawkins, has talked about militant atheists and they, you Know- and Richard Dawkins has said that religion is the scourge of humanity and that we need to get rid of religion now in reality. If you look at the scientific evidence, what you're gonna find out is Religion has a very chequered past right and then it's you know that. Legion. Has you know in terms of the history of violence Right Steven Pinker? Has this? book, the better angels of our nature, and he talks about the fact that you know the what the new atheists are saying about. Religion is not supported by the evidence right that in history, religion has not been any one thing right. It's just a tad some good things that had some bad things. That's not a scientifically appropriate belief to go around and saying that religion is the scourge of all humanity or to be aging war about over religion, New Dragoon, darkened and specific Hawkins, and you know SAM Harrison, all that's herself and critically. Dawkins crises, the most militant item right separately,

in a wider people believe in religion. What is religion really about right? It's because people don't understand how Control, their environment and so their minds fill in there trying to make sense of how do we get there? The is also like all the rest of culture, its passed down. That's right, learn, behaviour and imitating atmospheres and adopting predetermine patterns of behaviour and thinking exactly, and so, if you, if you know Dawkins and SAM Harris their stated objective right as they want to promote evolution, bright now I thought I had to tutor some students who were at a christian school that talk creationism and its oaks christian and you know thousand oaks right and I had never like honestly, like pre doing that experience. I had never thought much about the new atheists like they just weren't. A big deal is like ok, those guys around doing

ever they're doing right, and then I went into this Christian fundamentalist School or whenever it is or school, the teachers creationism and all they could talk about was Richard Dawkins and SAM Harris right. They were talking. Them constantly and in their minds. Richard Dawkins and SAM Harris represent science. They are the face of science, in the same way, that you know some guy in the MID West when he thinks about when Ethan about Islam, he's thinking about ISIS or I'll Kader. All that's were so. He doesn't understand those people don't represent the majority of Muslims and in the same way, in this school right, Dawkins and Harris were being used to represent science in general and who represent evolution in general right, so they are essentially for a lot of people forming the stereotype of science. Now the opposition to them a meal with eight soaked through their in opposition to Dawkins and Harris, and there are certain things they did in their teaching like they would do. You know that, for

the school. I mean it was a weird experience, because one, the school had the very best rhetoric department that I've ever seen of any school, because they knew that they were gonna, have people attacking their police for their whole life, and so you have to know all the logical fallacy, straw, man, you know too quick way, all that's herself and the worst Science Department fact perfectly seen in my life sure yeah wonder why well exactly- and so you know did all sorts of things like, for example, they had a whole unit on Isms right. They were like narcotism fascism, communism and how bad those were and then right after that they taught the controversy around evolution, so they are alike. While there are four different theories of the origins of life right, one is young earth. Creationism one is intelligent design, one is earth is metaphorical day and then the fourth one is evolution. Ism right, she's create. So evolution

ism right so altered telling you the evils of isms, that's right, so so you got a long circuitous route here. So his boy now accusations about hair so well, but the problem is wrong with his views on God and what's wrong with his views on religion. Well, that's. The point is that religion is a set of beliefs and accurate. Many of these beliefs are adapted to their environment, even though they seem cookie and there also ideologies that are strictly enforced, and that's right, that's one of the things he has a big issue, but the point is: that is the issue if, if you want it, so this comes down to our future,

people's minds and what is the science say about how you change people's minds and how do you move ideas? Okay, so you're, saying that his marking of these ideas is contrary to the expanding of knowledge. Its people are going to resist it there and its it doesnt per dumb, promoted from productive exchange of ideas between tribes. That's isn't that debate about, because a lot of people in listening to really excellent, constructed arguments against religion will change their mind. Well, like everything right, so you know rule thirty, four right right, so rule thirty! Four, if you can imagine it, there is poor. If it is not so in the same way, if you can imagine it they're a science of it right right but hold on ok, so there is actually

and on how ideas move, there's a whole field of it and there's this book of called the diffusion of innovations right and I had because I was working with these students right, I was trying to figure out. How do we get these ideas to move? And so I was like. Oh thank God, there's a book all about how ideas move right and what you come to find out is that all of the research shows there's a whole bunch of things that make ideas move. One thing is they have to be compatible with people's existing beliefs and then also they have to be paid. Practical, so they have to confer some sort of practical benefit right. So if he in terms of moving evolution, the first thing is to recognise that you know if we really want to like not to spend another hundred fifty years, it means having a fight between site some religion, all that's stuff. The first thing to realise that what people like David soon Wilson are saying is fundamentally compatible with Christianity right because they understand

that you know that altruism matters right all the sort of stuff right and proper that the sort of Dock Dawkins type notion of its all about selfishness and everybody just trying to fuck everybody and all that sort of stuff part of it is that doesn't fit well with Christianity. Right doesn't fit well with religious notions right. Secondly, all this stuff than on time out with cultural evolution is deeply practical right. You can see that if we have a conversation as humanity about culture and how my choices are being driven all that's for to somehow so that I can change my culture in all that sort of stuff that we can fix a whole lot of things. That notion of culture relies on group selection. Bring. It relies on this multi level. Selection idea that Dawkins is not on bored with all that sort of stuff and SAM Harris is not on board with. So ultimately, what I want to do as I want to move these ideas, but the whole point is Joe with that part of these

why you brought me on this podcast today is specifically because I called out Richard dominance now, now brought yon because Brian Cowen recommends you, and I will listen- you, honest podcast. Ok had nothing to do with our southern reinvesting topic of discussion. Ok, but I still don't I understand you're saying that essentially SAM Harris's, fusion or refuse rather of religion and his ideas about spreading what he believes the empirical truths about science, in some how're another causing a resistance to these very ideas because of the way he's presenting, because that he's not presenting them in a form that psychologically digestible is idle. You're, saying yes, and also fundamentally, he creates us the stereo type of scientists that is being formed around him. And what is that? Well is this: their angry aggressive? They doesn't seem again

so lonesome Degrasse, it's not it's! Not about really mean that was the point of like spending time in italics question about how I was perceiving them, because I wasn't thinking about them before these are people that are pushing a ridiculous. The algae and the enemies of that ridiculous ideology. They attack but you are attacking, but the lazy eyes, but the basic problem is attacking right, but it's over. Small segment of mean schools doing this right, you're dying mother. How long to enable these christian school? How many people believe in evolution is probably a giant number Well, I mean you know, I'd worry, you can look at different peoples, but it's like fifty fifty think. I think forty. So forty six percent, according to recent gallop over my joke, was always like who the fuck answers for

exactly? Is it like one out of a hundred well exactly like on triggered last night at our idea that people dumb enough to answer pole sets right, one percent, but but ultimately that's the the you know. The sort of the larger thing that I would like to achieve rain is a scientific reformation right, so you know you, the you know, Martin Luther triggers this this reformation with the catholic Church and all that sort of stuff at the cornerstone of the core of the catholic church. Was this idea, I love my neighbors thyself and basically Martin Luther said the people in. The power in this in the religious establishment or not living that principle right at the core. Science is the idea that we should be responsive to evidence right and the scientific aside Fishermen is often not living or the academic establishment is not living that that that you know principle right so and part of the problem. Is that left to their own devices? They will can

new to remain in their tiny lanes and a lot of these academic disputes can only be solved by going outside their lines. So, for example, if SAM Harris was here right now said the sun, the pub with Brian, the one thing that I wanted would want to talk about. The only thing that I would want to talk about is this rationalist verses, intuition IST idea try and reach some sort of definitive conclusion on that, because if SAM Harris thinking and feeling are always being linked than he has to decide how his feelings about religion are driving his thinking and where, his feelings about religion are appropriate in light of the evidence, or they're, not appropriate, so make sense religion as itself tell when you talking about evidence, its dreamily lacking in that. So when what he's talking about is people that are subscribing to a very rigid ideology that he thinks is compromising growth in the sea get out John Heights book the happiness I pots. This right, which is this, is something that Jesus talked about a long time ago, right just that it's easy

You understand, I understand this, but with this religious discrimination is based on an ideology. Of course that's written animal skins from thousands of years ago and extreme ignorance. So there's much more or two then than just saying that it's it's a similar racism will over. What I'm saying is that you know in this is again so there's a there's, a larger principle here. Right and again, you can find it in. You know John Heights book. The happiest, Ipods us right which is this is something that Jesus talked about a long time ago right just that it's easy to see the split. In my brother's eye, but hard to see the login my own so enjoy Well when you talk to people write like if you look at Jordan Petersen Right, Jordan Petersen criticizes people on college campuses right and he you know that. Us right, you comes on my show. It comes on your show, and ever we all chairman, we're like that, so fucking great right. Ah, what is the reaction of Jordan Petersen gets on his campus mixed

mixed jumping. Some people are suited him these already loader upset at that's right, and so, for example, when I took when I challenge these, you know the UNESCO Capitalist Libertarians, all that's, stuff. I got some people cheering me on and then a lot of people calling me intellectually dishonest or whatever and all tat sort of stuff right. These arguments notice. These arguments as they currently stand, are easy. There's a lot of material to try right and you know in the end, like my job, is to communicate them as clearly as possible over what I'm saying Is- is that if you want to move science like science, has a communication problem right? Ok, now, if you read people in I would like to go on day hill just be like people you're fuckin, dumb science is complicated right. You me you going you go on these big broad journeys rifle come back so so so what I'm saying is that so Harris and Richard Dawkins are the kind of friends it

friends like SAM Harrison, Richard Dawkins signs doesn't need enemies, they are alienating they are not helping us and they are getting in the way of communicating science. I understand because of the very approach that they're taking if science was to adopt the approach. Of we are here in light of the diffusion of innovations which is above all about, I feel the same way about milligram. Thyssen is open criticism of religion. While I think in general that I don't think that the criticism of religion is helping science, it's a hundred and fifty year old science has been at war with religion four hundred fifty year, So you don't think that science should be honest or that I think issues will. Thus scientists should be honest about their own personal, but we all, but the point is that I believe that scientists should read science widely and if you look at someone like John high part of the reason why on Height and SAM Harris have fought, is because John he doesn't have a problem with religion, because when you update your view of the book, Jane you come to realise that what's really going on, is that you?

blindly internalize the beliefs of you, no science in your community and all that sort of stuff, and they blind the internalize the beliefs of their community, and that, if you want to move ideas, if you want to move scientific ideas, what we have to do is establish trust, What specifically, are they blindly interpreting? But what is this idea of that region and emotional separate? But what How does that apply strictly to religion? Is beliefs on religion being incorrect because if you look at the behaviour of fundamentalists right, they get very into the the literal taxed in the wording in all sort of stuff right and it's the same with SAM Harrison, Richard Dawkins right there super in two like breaking apart. What is the Koran say? What is the Bible says

all the swear, to stop, and what really matters is. What is the Spirit in which is being approached? What are how do you feel about these things? So if you look at something like gay marriage, right or homosexuals right, what is the Bible say on Homesexuality? Well, it says two totally different things: there's what's what it says about Saddam in Gomorrah and then there is what it says about you know, love thy neighbour as thyself, and if you hate gaze you're going like all Saddam NGO. More that's the thing right and if you like, gay people, you have a nice gay neighbour, whatever you're, like all lovely neighbours, thyself rang right, so you She was not the text. The issue is: what is the person feel about the thing right? That's that's the psychology that is driving it right. I so the point is that if you want to fix the problem right, you don't work about the text right? You dont worry about what are the little if the taxes preposterous, that should be discussed. Well me of their bid, the text promotes.

Violence against women or against any particular group that doesn't believe what you believe. It's discussed because its problematic right, but different people, like has the Bible, changed in the last four hundred years but different peoples, interpretations of the bibles have right right, and so, for example, you know if you look at if you look at, for example, where Muslims now and where Christians now Roca look at Christianity and sixty nine Well. This is an issue that Michael Shermer wrote about recently about Islam, not experiencing the enlightenment, that other religions have gone through this. Well, it's it's been specifically about Islam experiencing a deal I meant what right does in the year? One thousand they were, but so the real thing that if you want to fix Islam and again like me, you know- I was born in Saudi Arabia. My parents live in Dubai like there are conversations happening about this.

Will you have to do is that you have to change the intellectual climate, but the, but the intellectual climate has nothing to do with the text. It has to do with a lot of what people. Believe about learning what they believe about themselves, whether they find ideas threatening and that the text that When is long in the year, one thousand right was the most intellectually advanced place on the planet and the text that is long is using now has not changed. So what happens is that people like SAM Harrison Richard Dawkins? They get super caught up in the text, but really, if you want to fix these problems, you have to talk about. You know what are your beliefs about your intention intelligence? How do you feel about other cultures? You have to talk about feelings and that's really where the conversation changes and the point is that rationalists don't talk about feeling

so that's the real I mean that is the core of what needs to happen, and the science is there to do that. But the point is that you know: let's put these people side by side. John High has a following of essentially zero rights. Richard Dawkins has a huge following right: SAM Harris has a big Following someone like Joe Henrik might probably maybe has three twitter followers, so the people who are representing science right and meal Digress- Thyssen, you know no one's quest. Like does near the grass Thyssen no way the fuck more about astrophysics than I do. One hundred percent I don't know that Neil De Grass Thyssen has, for example, read the diffusion of innovations, because I will tell you that I've had numerous academics on the pod cast, for example, David Sloan, Wilson, Davidson Wilson right, I asked him. You know he sent me this thing back in two thousand fourteen and it was a sixty

seven page paper, and it said you know it was towards the science of intentional behavior change or something like that, and I read the sixty seven pages and at the end of the 16th, seven thousand two hundred and sixty seven pages, I'm like I feel like what you're actually talked about his. How do you move ideas, and wasn't that already solved with the diffusion of innovations, and he said, oh I you know, if obviously heard, of the diffusion of innovations like every Rogers is literally you know famous work, but I've never made a close study of it. Now that innovations was written in nineteen sixty seven, it is an inn. Nation that hasn't diffused and that specifically because even though it set practices wit preaches one thing about how ideas move it's written in that dry, scientific, technical style,

So a guy like Neil Degrasse Tyson, you know or SAM Harris, were Richard Dawkins or David Sloan, Wilson or John Hyde or Joe Henrich, or any of these guys often have not heard of ideas that are relevant to the conversations that we're having like, I do not judge that the ideas are moving between signs is thus a bizarre conversation. Have you dont know whether or not they have read that? Well, but you can look, look at people's behaviour and you can see for People's behaviour, whether they understand certain things are known, whether they agree with certain things mean yeah, because their behaviour doesn't isn't compatible to that paper doesn't mean that they haven't read it and just decided that they don't agree Are they haven't another point of view? Well I mean that, for you know the okay, if mean, if we're going to really get into this,

really camp. We will where we're way over were left twenty five minutes. Oversight was trying to figure out a way to skirt out here, quick, but but I mean the that's the point that I'm trying in the large. I think the main point is that you know from all of our conversation: about culture rang. There are ideas out their trapped in books, which is the whole point. What we doing on the brain Callin show that have real practical value to improving people's lives. Those ideas are not moving

and part of raising their all kind of moving a maiden while it had Ewing right now, everything is moving well, but while so part of the diffusion of innovations right. So the book opens with a story about scurvy right. So scurvy is you know this problem that killed two million people right and you know it's all- comes down to victim in seed efficiency and it's the simplest solution in the world. You just suck on a line so between scurvy being figured out right in a sort of academic contacts and between it being applied. One hundred two years passed a hundred and fifty years. So the point is that ideas don't move or they didn't have the internet. But it's not even about that. It's that I isn't it I mean is that the best way distribute information as the internet, the barren areas it took a hundred fifty years to first scurvy too, curate, even though the information was there, do you think that directly concern?

words with the lack of the ability to express and information it has to do with him at the point of the diffusion in the nation's to have to do with the ideas being packaged in a way that is culturally and psychologically compatible with what people believe and it being shown that they have practical value. The basic barrier is this: why have idea heavies its unity this. The science of evolution has been around four hundred and fifty is that vitamin c example that you using your talking about an extremely limited amount of education available when people were not expressing this well. What eighty forty seven comparison, two thousand sixteen or seventeen. Let me giant difference here, but You got. Two million people dying right- there were two million people dying was a huge problem. They didn't know how to solve it, and these ideas didn't move right. But how can you pair that today. Well of what would the mean that the text that mean you know women Joe, we can't do the we can't do the experiment where you know why.

We have one world where we don't move that we don't do anything to package and move the ideas and we have an a world where we do actively worked train package and movies ideas. We can't do that, but it's a hundred sixty years difference in time. The world is a different world, while the technology is different, but the human mind hasn't changed. The human mind hasn't changed really in ten thousand years, the human mind might not have changed genetically, but its understanding of the world has changed radically less understanding of what a vitamin is well, but not today, ethically different between you understand well, but that's also important is that it's important to realise that when this whole scurvy conversation was going on, they didn't have the concept of vitamin a narrow, thick concepts that you don't have right now in terms of this idea that king and feeling or always linked right. This idea of Descartes error. That's not our culture doesn't talk about him, oceans in a way where they understand o this behaviour of the student where they want the testing they throw it all away. That is being driven by an emotion, alot of people. Understand that, though, do they shore

Sure a lot of people understand that people get humiliated by failure and that it makes him pull back. Ok, so you don't grow and would people teach people there's a lot of things that people teach about learning new information to make an encouraging and to make it enjoyable and to express boundless potential, not express in a very clear Jude boundaries that you're never going to cross and that you can import these very limiting ideas into children's minds- or you can spanned upon their potential horizons, by promoting this idea of accessibility and of of massive potential, of course, but is it is standard practice in America? Schools today, when a student, or though one student gets a bad task that we all work through those miss takes an analyze. Some I dont know what the standards it is now today started ass, a shitty teaching. Where are they not a matter of lack of understanding amongst certain individuals about the way people are motivated and not motivated? Well, there may be

small number of individuals, but that doesn't mean that that is the general consensus. I don't even know if it's a small number, I think it's a very large number I'll. Just not the consensus, why do you think that asian cultures do better in school? Then american culture- probably discipline where a lot of it is that faith and intelligence? They really believe practice makes perfect anything work hard at something you'll get better, is also cultural, isn't that is culture art and for you, Americans, don't have that culture today they don't have that faith it if you bust your ass new, really work hard that you'll get better they did have? I don't think that people have that idea. Do that's a giant generalisation women look at their American. Don't have, but look at the results are met. What is a massive hotbed of innovation and creativity are, which is the part which is part of America in particular, is a massive hotbed of innovation which subculture its silicon Valley, so in values, one it's incredibly innovative. What about the artistic community? What about musicians, massive amounts of comedy massive?

mounds of writing literature fiction lot of its coming from work up, total all corners of the spot totally, but at the same time, is the You know wires american students doing law, school, shitty stewed! or should he excuse me, shitty teachers rather shitty culture and Malta, that, to an obvious lack of a lack of resources being applied to schools, I mean find out what a teacher salary is. You found a how little their respective when is a real issue for sure yeah we're not we absolutely agree on that, and a large part of it is is it there are. You know there are complicated fixes like fixing how much we pay teachers and all that sort of stuff, and there are simple fixes and things that we can fix, pretty, simply and ideas that you can promote our you know, embrace your mistakes, analyze, your mistakes fail forward, and that is the eye. That is the cornerstone value of hey I, which is why are safer flying than walking is the Cornerstone Valley, value of Silicon Valley, and I will tell you

having worked with lots and lots of students and travelled all across the country, that is not the core value of. A lot of american students. We gotta, wrap this up. Yes, are it's already five o clock, I'm in trouble, Thank you very much man. I gotta do it again. It seems there is a lot more exact, there's a lot of shorter argue, fucks Sumatra by thank you, everybody for tuned into the podcast, and thank you to our sponsors. Thank you. First world caveman coffee for half in aiding me through this experience, Caveman Coffee c o dot com use, the code word Rogan and you will save ten percent off of any of their awesome. Coffee or awesome beverages are awesome she's. Thank you also to square space, build yourselves mother, fucker of aware. Besides with square space, you can make fuckin killer website all on your own. You can do it. It

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