Here we go folks. I know we had some issues. I know in the past. It hasn't always gone perfectly, but today we're going try hardest hardest hardest, get shit together. Folks put it together. This episode of the Joe Rogan experience. Podcast is brought to you dot com. If you go to audible, dot com, Slash Joe, you will get one free audio book and you will get thirty free days of audible service. If you have. Never used audible, dot, com or heard of them. It's an excellent resource for audio books, perhaps the best on the net and that's a strong statement, but I stand by it more than one hundred thousand different titles, great books like our friend Chris Ryan, sex at dawn. That's son, that's available on audible. You can get that for

If you go to audible, dotcom com forward, Slash Joe, if you don't use audio books, you're silly bitch, they're, awesome awesome create if you have to travel. If you get stuck in traffic, if you sit on a bus, it sits in egg and an amazing thing that can take an otherwise wasted moment in time and actually make it enjoyable and make it educational. You know enrich yourself your the bus bitch get it together and if you go to audible com, comforts Joe, you can get it together for free for thirty bucks. Thirty days rather thirty days for free audio service and one free audio audiobook go try it check it out. We are also brought to you by huh, hover is domain name company, that's owned by the same people that own ting, and if you know how good she and and we are the ten. You know that we feel the same way about hover the idea behind I what I love about it is

they're trying to give you a great deal on excellent service and they're. Trying to make things as sort of of easy and ethical is as simple and fair as possible and that same sort of attitude is taken up by hover. They try to provide you with things for free the other domain name. Companies will make you charge for like who is domain name privacy. If you go to hover Dotcom Ford, Slash Rogan, you will get to percent off your domain name registrations. I actually have domains registered through. However, I got a bunch of and that I'll probably never use. But I had an idea. I can't tell you right now, man, I can't tell you, I had a project in mind. But you know what I don't have kids and Prague. X. I started my up and then I go and said what the am I doing with this. The weed silly website idea, but if you want to register website mean I obviously run actual web, I mean have Joe Rogan dot net and this other websites. But if you want to start your own, how

way to go, go check it out, and I believe you get a free domain name registration. If you sign up for more than a year all right who's, not some might not yeah I mean with the year yeah it's it's an awesome company, so go check it out. However, dot com for slash, Rogan GO, there saves money we are also about to buy, is at it now we one more stamped out. I'm still a com which, if you, if you ve ever seen, those silly death squad, Kitty CAT tee shirts, their brain red Bank, creates, and if you haven't seen him, go to death squad, DOT, tv, they're, they're, pretty bad ass and especially the hypnotic looking one psycho psychedelic cat love that little Fucker but Brian sends all that stuff through stamps dot com. If you are someone who run your own business going to the post office can be a real pain in the ass. So long wait in line to deal with some unenthusiastic person really really want away your shit and tell you how much it costs here in the attic

huge and then there's like those people waiting behind you are like really hurt, you're, bringing boxes of shit, and here you can actually do all this stuff right from your desk. The all you have to do is go to stamp out com and and and check on how it works. You, u buy in print of actual official. U S postage for any letter or package using your own computer and printer means. It's an amazing thing. They send you. A digital scale calculates exact postage. There's little lamb microphone if you go to stem cell com, does little microphone the upper corner. If you click on it and enter the promo code, J, R e- U will get a hundred and ten dollar bonus offer, which includes digital scale and up to fifty five dollars of free

postage. It's an excellent service. Folks and again, if you run a business and you dont, you stamps bike, dot com, you you're, really being silly because its it will make your life so much more simple. If you have the dread, those tracks to the post office, I'm sure that's scale will be good for a wing out tobacco to how dare, how dare you, the dot com Diana you're really talking about tobacco. I do not believe you. Listen! We in no way endorse selling illegal tobacco and then shipping it using stamps com. That is not what stamps dot com is for. Okay stamp. Does it's for eggs if you're selling american flags. If you've got be ammo that needs to be shipped legally sound to state yes goes down to combat, please no illegal tobacco liquidators that pretty bad ass scare at their those

Ladies and gentleman just go there. The code is J, r e use, it stamps dot com. It's awesome go check it out that stamps dot com at the top of the homepage enter J R e in joy, relax, repeat: Rants Douglas Rushkoff is here, ladies and gentleman to the music to know that it's kind of got to much tobacco The Joe Rogan experience too loud yeah, I'm sorry, the we have a an adjustment thing here which to we can actually lower your lawyer where you at. Are you this one right here that better the better for you yeah? Okay, sorry about that!

did mean blow yours off thanks for joining, join us thanks for having me Douglas Rushkoff. If you do not know of him had is which, because of media analyst, which only if there is to me author, mainly alternately, yeah and your new book is called present shock when everything happens all at once, as I would everything happens now and then, but never happens now. I I saw quite a few of your videos online, really really really interesting conversations and one of them that really struck me was you. You will live a several of them that struck

but one of them was your story of being mugged. An you told people on an online room like where you got mugged and people were upset that you in telling them that you got that in telling the world that you got mugged there. It was lowering their property values yeah it was. It was a bad one, uhm, that's so crazy yeah I mean it was one thing to get mugged, which is kind of freaky. Self, in whatever shame, shaman weirdness goes with that, but I guess I was trying to do. I mean deep down was probably elicit you know, love and affection, from the people on my list. You know so I Oh you know there was it social, some social responsibility to it. So I put up where I got mark. As everyone should know, this is maybe a dangerous, stretch here, we got to maybe get a light, but yet so I sent sent it out and then the first

emails. I got back from this. Loving list of parents was how dare you see exactly where it happened? You know we live right across the street. You know you're going to little. Rock property values are used. Selling now is that is that now we're not selling, but it was a really weird time when people needed their property values to go up because they were trying to get bigger mortgages and pay down and do all that- and it was just like so panicky there about that that some, you know someone was afraid of what. If a newspaper cover, it it's bad and what? If it's so weird when ones and zeros trump humanity, you know in in that case that's exact that is its ones and zeros Trump humanity well yeah, two kinds of ones and zeros? You know that the ones years of money- yeah now and the ones and zeros sort of digital technology, which I think can create a kind of a distance,

the general feeling the impact of saying that to someone's face yeah yeah, there's a weird communication. Communication takes place online, it's either it doesn't have any consequence. You know you can you can do it anonymously, and this is what it's like these barbs can just send out and illogically like in ways. you would never, if you had to deal with someone one on one, because you would feel it you look around, you would feel response. You would be like. Why are you saying this like like? Why are you being such an of, but because you or anonymous right, so people are just like in this unnatural communication thing, but then the part that then worries me after that is, if you get used to doing it like that, anonymous way online to set start to make the behavior of a bit more normative when you're with your identity. I guarantee it has to its has to there's. No free rides when it comes to that, I really feel like your thoughts you can like. There was always a thing

I remember when I was in high school. This someone in my school newspaper wrote like a funny critique about the boy scouts and one of the things that he didn't like about. The boy scouts was that they want. You keep your thoughts pure there's, like you know. Well, my thoughts are my own thoughts. You know I'm just as long as I don't do anything. I don't think, there's anything wrong with my thoughts right. Not that was really smartly argued. I remember reading going well as for kids, pretty clever, but then I thought about it like for you. If your thinking about creepy creepy, you probably kind of creepy. You know it it's it's not gonna get any better. Just you know you just gonna, eventually, one day going to snap and then you can do to be thing yeah. If you really are like the I don't know, I mean everyone has their own definition of thoughts being pure. You know like a

more lenient person might allow a lot of like healthy sexual things in the idea of thoughts being pure zones is creeping, but there's other people that would just sit around so well. I'm just think about creepy shit all day and not do it and I'm fine, but not this no free ride. There may be either you things. Well, I mean we weren't you're, describing what you did. Driving is you know the benefits of an absolute police state as long as it was always right, yeah, that's no problem That's the problem I mean, and then you can always get your my minority report. You know just me his name in there right now really subscribe, and then I'm just saying that you really could be nice. You can't have really shitty thoughts and get through, and I think that if you're really shitty online, you have those thoughts, even if it's only online. I really believe that none of this matters genuinely yeah genuinely shitty. I mean it's just. How do you decide? What's what's what should and whatnot, but yeah no it's people when their demeanor, you are online without your face them, You can be online with your face on the meaning you can get in real

yeah. You know until you just got. I mean people do investigate people's to it like. If someone says you something weird on Twitter, do you go to their twitter page and see just other kind? the shit that their right to everybody and in just legislation, I will admit focused way more on the country we and emails and things on the ones that are the thing about get like ten emails. All your book was great. I loved it. You've changed my life, my children, you know the worst of it. You're older, he's a good delete, delete, delete, delete, lived at a time with your mask off, who's. This guy you're, like that This is the biggest piece of shit. I've ever read parts one thousand people loved it. In life, it's alright, but I'll spend the rest of my week trying to convince this one guy. Oh no! You, though I am not a bad guy. What the book is actually a you've got to learn the internet yeah I well now it's it's a well, it's inevitable! It's hard, it's hard, not to engage people, because it is there. They are it's like a person saying it to you, yeah, it's

similar and to someone who's public. You know you're out there you have your. Your name is out there in the videos are out there. Anyone can find out. you and see you they can reach you too and reach on Twitter. You know they can send you some shitty thing just to get a rise. From you and just making you dance and your rancid dancing to someone else's spell. So I to learn how to look you at yourself, you like sounds now. I do, but I got it I got here and we have to leave it, but you gotta be able to do that to the point where, where its healthier not beyond at some point, if everybody's going Wake up your bug, to be be. When it's you, you know, ve got. You can do this, but you can't do that. Well in the end, the sale of a market, but tell me, I guess, yeah rebellion began you're, not a dumb guy you'd. Never do that. Even if they make a book like that, it was so often out of line. You would look at yourself about to be condemned, as I can tell I'm talking to you for ten minutes you're, not that kind of guy.

the kind of guy that would do that is like this. There, sir, people that are functional crazy and they can like figure some things out, some things down down and then stuck in some sort of a weird rotten, can't talk him out of it, and you know you realize. Oh, he was crazy. All the time he just figured out how to get through, I've. Those are the ones that will go off and crazy tensions and people go. What are you doing cause the guy wasn't really not in the first place, you're, not nuts. Again you have to worry about that. get that lead get high leader you it. You need to keep a people, people around you, keep telling you you're, not insane, then using the cattle. I can. I I think this age good thing that comes from criticism now, because the this even really harsh criticism is because of their ridiculous. And if you look at what they're saying is ridiculous and mean that is really reveals far more about them than it really does about you. But

look at what they're saying is there any merit to it at all? Does it make any sense, or is it just nonsense? This is just the guy being an asshole or if you weren't you could you find merit in it like I've found criticism from the biggest assholes, but it was like there was like her of accuracy into it. It made me like consider certain things yeah, I'm in the most valuable thing about it. For me, it entertaining it to some extent is just it makes me it makes me more flexible. You know is that as a thinker you If you can wrap your head around, you know. Where am I wrong right? It can make you when decisive, because if I he's right neither right in this one right, but sometimes things are complicated yeah. I know, but that's that's. You know for me the object of the game. That's why I keep writing. I'm writing about the now known present being present. If you're actually present, you have to be present with your cell

If the present who you're with right now and that's the thing that everybody looks to be avoiding one way or another, you know whether it, whether you're doing a coke second earned money or, if they're doing it, because they got a check, a device. I mean, there's the constant s resting and it's just I see so few people. I walk into rooms now and I feel, like I don't feel like I'm in a room with these people, there's no sort of social cohesion they're not really present there, each in their own little segment. You know in a connected with the internet and friends, yeah and then not connected with with each other. You know I I am you know, I'm at net fan I've been since the late eighties have been. You know pro. You know point wingers cyber punk type person, but you know I keep feeling like

other than using these things too, to reach out to other people and connect were using these things for business. They ve gotten super aggressive, behaviors gotten way worse, and I don't even think it's our fault. I honestly think it's in the in these cases. It's because were living on this, this an operating system, but an economic operating system that just needs to feed off the when it's should be our space, not the economy, space yeah, it's I feel like we're in the stage of progression for this, inter connectivity russian, where we're starting off with we we're starting off with just regular telephones and that is moved to cellular phones, which everybody carries which is going to move into some Google glasses type thing which is going Eventually, I mean down the line. If you extrapolate a hundred years, whatever it's going to take be some really crazy. Interconnectivity that that people share- and I think this stage that

going through right now. The anonymous stage of being able to like make a twitter account want some fake name and just start saying mean things to random people like that ability is going to go away. You're not going to have this anonymous portal like I, I just think. If you look at the way things go, I feel like the way I look at the future It's like this thing. That's going to be really scarce is secrets. I think we're going to be able to connect with each other in some way that we probably can't even imagine right now, whether it's some neuro chip or something that in your body, whether it's nanotechnology, whatever it is, there's going to come a day where were like completely interconnected with each other, but did beauty of that, though, is It really worked. It would bring us back to the now that we've been avoiding all this time, so they face to face, live interaction where you can't buck with each other. Who's. You're here you know, there's this guy enjoy look met there. I met this

this guy. This show guy, you know a stage magician guy who could tell when people are lying. I don't know if you ever seen this guy he's like work for the FBI and stuff you can like he does all these tricks lines of ten people, and he says: ok, one of you think of any he can really tell period would be like, and I was thinking if he can tell the people are lying because he's got this talent. It means that on some level, we all know, we all have that ability right. So we all on some level, no when the other ones lying to us. So it's it's kind of been if you're actually in the moment it's all exposed anyway, I think there's a weird feeling that you get when someone's being deceptive, there's a weird feeling you get where you're like. There's ran a disturbance when you're communicating with them this. But you can't put in a tangible there's, nothing you could say you always x amount of weight, so here I know this is a real thing. You know here put it on a scale its, but there's some weird thing that happens.

You when you wish that we, like you, can tell if someone's upset at you and not saying it, thanking me saying all the right words, but you like there's a certain. Does it old nurse or a lack of warmth or there's a little something I wrote about those women in: what's it called the ad housewives of Orange County, They really. I got obsessed with them because they were just having all of these awful disagreements all the time and young communications guy trying to figure out what. Why is there, communication breaking down and right so What I do so I know so I concluded in the end. That is because they put so much botox in their faces that they can't actually, execute facial expressions in an honest way anymore, in a way that the other person organically can react to my God. So these women, in trying to kind of free- time at age, twenty nine ended up making themselves inaccessible to the now that they're in,

now you see, one will say: oh you know my! You know my daughter, I think she might have cancer and the other ones like I'm so sorry but she's frozen in a smile right. So then they go to the first one, and I can't believe I told her my daughter. You know I have cancer and the other one. She says she's, sorry, but I can tell she's not you know that's sort of. I mean it's, it's just a metaphor, but that that's true there let it's true stuffing cotton in the mouth and they can't you can understand what they're saying record they're, ruining the facial communication, expressions of of facial communication right and then the question is we live in the weather, shooting poison in their face to freeze that, but there to freeze it in time they're trying to stop time and that's it? I understand the urge to stop time, but when you stop time, you lose the moment. That's kind of the whole point I'm making. Secondly, the net stop time in a certain way, but you're going to lose certain moments that you know so all for being on the net and having a net moment, but you

been here. I've heard you do those ads before for those sponsors and you could just cut and paste. You know you could cycle seven of them and maybe people wouldn't even know it's the same ones. You know you could cut and paste from another show and throw it in, but Decide now actually gonna sit here and read. These three adds with my friends If I didn't do, I gotta be really bored You know I I never want to just read an ad We always say you in Copley, but he may know more money you make from you know: that's the end of the model of the industrial age will courses to make print out more yeah and the only way we would do it with the only way we could even do any of the stuff. The way we're doing this, because we don't have anybody that we have to prove right with you know no one it does. I don't have to go to NBC and say hey. This is what we think doing. I know you have these commercials, but we're just gonna to talk shit and occasionally we get to the point of the commercial, but but Ironically, on the long run, it ends up making more money

aim, certainly more money for the people who are actually doing you know, maybe by the other system, you can make more total money, but it's going go to you know. God knows what some institution anyway. So so the fact that it is that it is live and it is a what an MP three mainly it is mainly a podcast. You think, on the first hand, because I'm looking to do make a kind of radio choice myself and it's like well, I can do this for the man and make this amount of money kind of guaranteed, but I'm going I have to stay between these sightlines lines and I and got this other route and actually do the I do you know there's not even a choice there yeah not in this day and age. It's not necessarily it's that used to be a time where you you would have to choose you have this this internet thing who, if it's going to work out, but it's crazy, do you have an option to immediately jump in and get a gigantic group of people that are gonna start start retweeting reading and listening your stuff and you'll you'll develop following in no time and

that's happening. All you do, is you know, selling ads for companies that you actually believe in right? You could that's the only way you should do it fun working for some company. That tells you not to swear or not to do this or not to discuss that or you know, that's not. The stands were taken on this particular complicated issue. Do you know Fox says it's just that's the enemy of real thought, the enemy of real saw his committee. You know, I don't know what you're really thinking, if you everything you say has to go through committee before comes out your mouth. I want to know what the you're thinking and and especially in in, like the sense of a radio show. You know what kind of radio that like the whole thing, it used to be even DJS used to be this dj likes this music, so those k, wires, Aust or first broadcasting from the same city that your rent yeah ever when that did it and clear Channel took over, and it was like, oh my gosh, so we're getting a recording, that's done by computer, three thousand miles away. This is my local rock and roll stations.

Having those Jack FM's, which is essentially like playing shuffle when your ipod? This could be anything of a number of things that they approve and they pretend were wacky. We just don't have any rules like we're checking for him and it's like a standard model. There's like a hundred jack's across the country and probably more than that. It's weird, I think, radios completely on its way out. I think they're fox, I think that's like It's a silly way do do it and no one's going to stick with it after a while like what are you gonna have internet access in your car within no time? That's that's easy. They could do that right now already get that with podcast on the Iphone, because I have my Iphone blue. To my car so I'll just immediately say: oh I'd like to listen to a dog trussell trestle podcast in I've done it had a red light.

It's so easy at a red light. It's one two don came to answer still. There is one aspect of radio that I feel like I would miss. Is that local terrestrial reality of it okay so mean yet we could still have like you can, and you know, You can have a la channel and I can have a you know this part in channel, and you know we could do that technically with with Digital. You know where you'd pick your your so called regional thing: it'll be local but the mediums not biased towards the medium? Is it all equivalent? You know, and I wonder, would we drift further away from from local and the kind of the things that matter to us in the here and now or or will we choose that stuff? I think you know. Instead of like a local radio station you're going to have a million people in LA making their own music making. There

Putting their own shit out there. That you can choose from you know whether it's a music like a pandora list or something like that, someone puts together or whether it's pie casting. I just think the idea of a local representative was always gross and it was Gross grows, Wolfman Jack was always gross because for Wolf Jack there's a million other dudes are probably had interesting ideas as well, and they had no outlet so of one guy, has this outlet from this particular time. That's crazy, that idea sucks the idea we're dealing with now is way better. It's like a billion outlets, six billion outlets and there's no local anymore there's people that are In that time, little tell you about things, but everyone's more connected than ever before right and because they are, I mean the economy as we know it also has to go. Way to write another twenty six billion people. Do, I guess I've been in the two billion left you in farming like

of businesses go, and you also lose those iconic figures like the Wolf man Jack or like the Howard Stern, why's that Well, I mean I think you could still choose. You would just have major every once in a while something major would Then maybe it wasn't wearing you wouldn't be that one guy who's, your town guy. You know I grew up in Boston was Charles Lockwood era. Trials are good there, and the big mattress was like this. He would call this, but, like morning shows called the big mattress is a great guy. Lockwood are really nice guy. I met him two of actually, but he he his she. He was like the number one, radio dj and boss, and everybody knew it you would go to. When I was doing construction on go to job sites. People turn turn turn the big mattress, listen to Lockwood era, and was that was a shows like that was the shell and the only way to go.

A show like that is to not have a lot of options. You know to to have a show that everybody agrees raw gonna. Listen to you know it's only three options, no disco! No, when I listen to disco, you know we end the there wasn't like the internet quality options that that that that changes, the whole game like there's, never going to be a CBS radio on the internet. No it does it does. It will, and it's gonna replace everything terrestrial I mean I never sent so if you're saying we're percent everything's going to be a Everything dresser is going to be a place. First is radio and its other stuff. All we have to make sure then is before we lose all those things which we're gonna inevitably lose to say to ourselves. What is what is it? We value about those things that we want to bring into these digital things before, where untethered in there now before. It's all the way yeah we we want cake and we want eat to too

the digital era and we still want mom and pop stores we're trying to keep it all and that's the question is: can you get both you know? So? Can you have this very tradition? narrative, 20th century industrial age. Culture live right aside, you know, sort of steady state economy and peer to peer. Currencies and local. Nor can we have an Iphone and organic charred and and those slavery in Africa to get either, Is that possible? open. So I we move towards it or not. It seems like What a great percentage of the world would like, but but it's we've made shocking little progress and moving towards that potentially utopia right, but then, but you know, as long as we

I hope you know it right- a win vision. Oh yeah! No, I would say ok, but but this shift that were undergoing now from an analog era to a digital one is a bigger shift than just then just that there's a whole different digital media environment that we've gone into so we've gone into this from this. This time is money. Expansionist economy live by the clock, universe to one, that's potentially asynchronous. That's just off that off that they remember when the net first came up. It was like it was

You know people in Austin and slackers in cyber punk. The idea was that the net was going to give us more slack right. You know, and it ended up for most people kind of doing the opposite, because they're always on and working and being monitored, and all that and distracted. But I mean I think, if we, if we take command of the way, we're programming these things, then we can use them to sort of to create. You know the gorgeous culture slack, to create note what a few of us are are kind of discovering. We can do like you're doing with this right. You're just doing your thing yeah, I think we're trying to resist the inevitable and that inevitable is a symbiotic. Computer relationship. There's gonna be some sort of bio mechanic, connections. There's one man talking through it to another man with headphones to a million people living in their car wherever the fuck they are. He, since

You're right, it's I really don't feel like. We can stop that. It seems like the thing. That we got so excited by, as as these higher functioning primates are these new things that we've created that input us or give us input in a way that our bodies completely not designed to get like through your headphones, like like listening to a podcast like that, a computer itself that the ability to watch a video, the ability to The movie is it's all yeah? This is what the stimuli that's coming addresses just were not designed for support. It's it's reconfiguring itself to be as productive as possible. Yeah! Well it right, because it's not it's it's! What it's for right is to seduces into itself, so that the companies behind it can make money and because it we move constantly and two in a path of of progression and if you look at the technology, it's always going to move into a stronger great. We were never satisfied with any particular result. In any particular, more choices

more choices? We want to be powerful more fast. We want. We want better graphics. We want bigger blooms, us all right. Let's stick enough, let's take it to the next level. It's it's the end. This desire to get these experiences were pushing the tech ultimately they are getting. But then what's interesting to me about that is, while all that's pushing ahead, what we get in a digital media environment. Is we end up retrieving. Medieval values, You get burning man and at and people doing peer to peer stuff trying to have their local currencies which they haven't had since MIDI. We'll times you know you see the the stuff that gets for treatment, paganism men and in a matching up a route to hear yourself, with things make your culture, all these things are what we've lost the last thousand years. That's what the renaissance in the industrial age was about, stamping that out and putting it

buddy on the on the assembly line at Ford. So it's fun as we move forward. We get these great old recurrences, which to me is reassuring. It means that we are bringing something with us into into this next place. I think it's also that the current system, so flawed, that people are willing to try anything and that there. Actually actively thinking about what We do differently. Can we make a look? Local currency like right, you know and which is interesting, is like the two places I've gotten emails from. Last many years of people doing social currencies are either from a place like it's a good New York where they're doing it, because just you know strange and trying to try something. We are good. Glancing Michigan, where there's no GM plan is no bank. That's gonna. Give money to a factory to open up to hire people and their desperate there like well, I've got skills, I know how to fix, fridge writer and they have needs so can't we just make an economy that way. You know those from the places where people are actually asking. That

the the the way they're ready. I just don't like that reading is seems to involve being just so I'm not just fed up but uncomfortable. You know that you've got to do something yeah. The word was clearly going through change, we're with clearly going through a change in the culture that we weren't prepared for and we're sort of making our way as we go along and there's a there's, a of of a lot of mistakes along the way and the evidence that points to it, but one of the best pieces is your story about people getting upset at you, because you got mugged and called in the story in and said the low yes and that's one of the best examples of people like losing the script. Like you like along the way in this crazy thing that we're doing where we developed currency and then there's things called property values and there's mortgages and equity, and all this crazy shit along the way. You know we're going to have to figure out how to stay human and when used

like instant failure like oh, my god, I got mugged you fuckin here. What would you do what you say the place it's interesting, I mean it's in every single one of my books, I've written like twelve now, you know they're all finally about how, We bring humanity into this thing that seems to have lost it were so I did it for know for, business? I did it for her for the economy with life. Think is the book you're talking about two different Judaism was on the call. Nothing sacred same Judaism should be this on going conversation, keep alive, keep human, don't let it locked down and now that this one it's weird, because it's like I'm kind of admitting that it's what I I guess some of realized it myself, but I'm kind of saying: oh, my gosh, I'm a humanist. No, I'm a humanist! and technology enthusiast. How do you be both because so many of the other folks who are sort of pro technology sort of my past all sort. Also talking about not human beings being an ape by technology, but technology surpassing.

As you know, some singularity- or you know some some moment in the future. Peters get smarter than us and then we are not really need it anymore. It might not be that simple. Thinking about it. A lot lately and one of the things I think is: why do we have this idea of competition? And why would the computer enjoy that idea with us all It is based entirely on our biological make up our need to reproduce. I need to prove ourselves to our mate our need to protect against strangers all instincts that a computers gonna have at all, and so the idea of competition with you, as for resources or the even the idea that survival is imperative and that you know, you have an ego and you can't die they're not going to have any of that. So why would they be in competition with us? Why worlds, it wouldn t any new. It wouldn't be because of them be because of the way.

Programming three programme that you know sentient, though, that that's when they wouldn't do the bad things went to keep us around, but I don't even it's not it's not a matter of them being able to do that, because I don't even think they will. I don't think they and it's more a matter of people in the here and now saying that human beings are really only important in so far as we can be the shepherds in organizers of information right now, information is the thing. That's involved. Towards greater states of complexity and once human beings are no longer the best at making complex information, but computers are the best at it. Then there's just no need for humans anymore with the computers or not, I don't know what they give us a good time who knows, but but just the whole idea that we should be developing technology. With this in mind,

it it negates. What I think is an essential for us anyway, centrality of humanity in the equation. Why? I think people don't recognize how much we need each other. We don't recognize how important positive interaction is with other people to your health and the way you feel about life. He will. There is clearly a relationship that people have, to each other that we're in denial about re, lock ourselves up in our apartments or in our homes, and we shut our car doors and we roll down the window. One of the reasons why people willing to give people the finger when they're in the car- you would never do that and really you feel like you're in some sort of a contained world and even though you're not even anonymous you're still like fuck you how many people do you give the finger in real life like nobody,

but once a year are give some way the finger. Somebody does not crazy, they beat me fuck, you fuck you, it's beautiful beautiful thing to do, but you know that eventually, I think we have to accept the fact that we will only happy when the people around us are happy when we're in harmony with the people around us. We're not happy when and in conflict were not happy when we're not happy when we fuck people, over- I I know people that have done bad things in business and bad things ethically and bad. You know and they're not here no, but then in the current culture they can compensate for that with medicine that I address Zeit gets them through the night, but you have to hope I mean I always do, which is it a vain hope. I hope that the people who do bad stuff, but then make up for it with drugs, still feel worse than I do. You know not not taking those drugs and and trying to do good stuff. You don't want to believe that you know these kind of guys, like I used to see em

even say his name, one of those millionaires down at Knicks Games, and I always think, I sure hope, he's not happy that's for which isn't very fast I played while he's doing, is playing some really crazy game that was around before he was ever born. He just got into it and got really good at it, but the game itself is bananas, just the stock market itself, just the idea that the wealth of of a person can vary day by day. Because of confidence in our brain evidence, computer consumer confidence in a product and like shifting change with recall, and then you These numbers go up and down like what the fuck are you, even another most of the explanations you see. No, I watch these business sites in the market will go down on this market down because of such and such a London, and then it's like by the time that peace comes out, that market actually back up and they're already drafting their. Let's time argued going back up, another random feature, you know it's like the the

explanations after the facts have so little to do? You know with whatever, algorithm decided it was gonna, suddenly ultra fast trade, something in and throw the stock up. You know it's like at this point its it truly is: that's the best place to see human, combating machines is on the marking. Where he's like, there's human traders competing with these programmes algorithm send. The algorithms are certainly winning the war and if you look at their screens while there while they're doing it is almost like code, like the average person doesn't understand it doesn't know what the fuc the stock market. Saying the symbols in the essay oh and this, and that and the ones and zeros you look at all that you have no idea what that is. I mean: how is that really different than a computer code that you're reading mean that's essentially like a way that people are.

Shopping and well it is system. I mean it was at one time the sort of the price of something had to do with something right. It's like there's a factory. Oh, it's factory went slower today, rain. The rain will go down on that side. It was like real and- and I think it's gotten certainly further and further from whatever is going on in that company or their earnings are the things you know it's. It's absolutely abstracted to the point now where people don't even investing companies where you invest in something like when Facebook, when public people bought it like nine in the morning and like nine, ten they're off and stuff that it hasn't gone up, Wait a minute I was supposed to triple my well gentle my wealth, it's like no, you don't you don't make money on the trade to make money on when you, when you ve done it, but you now we ve got derivatives and derivatives, derivatives and there's a derivatives of derivatives on there, which is just a way of kind of shrinking. The explain

after people dont know it's. So if you buy a stock, I mean you know, you buy stocky, hope it goes up, and then you sell it in the future. If you'd rather make up that time right now, I can sell it in the future right now ray. I can basically so that future sale, because I think that sales going to be a good one. Now right, I can say what, if I did, that trade ominous, I'm an eminent have it now, but one. Am I trading ban, I'm trading I'm trading on on an abstraction from something's going to be worth. Someone will in the future, So it's like I'm trading on the stock overtime and then someone else I'm going to trade on the abstraction of that I'm going to trade on whether or not people think the stock in the future is going to be worth more next minute than this minute. It's like what's that, so, basically, what you're doing is you're buying the stock over time over time over time over time, you're creating

these things, these derivatives of whatever the original investment was, which is kind of just a derivative of the thing. I there's the pork belly, this derivative of the pork belly driven the derivatives traders of the derivatives of the derivatives of the derivatives of all ever tat other ways of saying what is pork belly going to be worth? You know on February. Third, why is that legal? Well, it's legal, because what it because the economy requires it right. We have a kind of money right that has a clock in it, it's lent into existence and has to be paid back more than got lent out. So our economy needs to expand, by hook or by crook, somehow it has to grow in order.

To survive. That's just the way central currency works. They need to find more surface area for the money, more ways for people to buy stuff. So, instead of just having there's not enough of a company to buy so now, we can bet on how that company is going to do in some future. Now we can bet on that or we can bid on that right. But what we're really doing is trying to kind of compress all of this time right until like the head of a pin, so we can bet on that. So I don't have to sit and wait. You know three thousand years for Facebook to be worth something. I can trade on future worth now, but the whole joke of that is people who are trading that way there, these computers, that are trading faster than them. So Putting one o my superfast crazy. You know I'm derivative trade, Goldman Sachs Seas at order coming in on the computer there so close to the exchange, they can execute an order for my order, even goes through based on being seen that I was gonna, do what I'm gonna do so they can literally

trade in my future right. Why? I am in their past? No, that's that's digital time, drift nets. That sounds like is feeling that like someone like running a quick server and their local, and then you have like one hundred and fifty ping, exactly that's bullshit I think so, would the sort of polls show that the irony of it is it's gotten. So big bird of trading is bigger than regular training. So that the New York Stock Exchange actually just got bought the exchange itself got bought by its derivative exchange. So it's almost just like the proof is in the pudding. It's like. The derivative owns the market. Boy. But that's when you get one who dad how The government even ever deny how incompetent they are, and they allowed that, like that alone to and she just likes- have a bit of the broadcast on national television, a you know, one of those town hall sort of events. We sit down with the the main people that run the country and go how the you allowing

How have you not fix this? Why would you ever try to do anything else before you fix this when they made the decision? They genuinely thought it be good for business, in the short term. I will never visited all you called business. People promise them figuring out of work, not really bad. Oh, my god would figure it out before it got really bad. How much bigger is the derivative economy? I don't know exactly. I mean it seemed I was looking trying to that what that with this turn of training, was it seemed from what I could tell Ike lip. Ninety four percent of trades are now derivative because there- and because there because they're such bigger volume, so my god that's insane no one's gonna like you're not going to buy. You know ten thousand shares of Honeywell today, because that's you know we don't we over sixty thousand dollars and thing, but you could barely ten thousand futures on Honeywell is they're, really g. That is so

easy one percent of the stuff of trades early can luggage any and I'm scared. How many more is, I think, its ultra fast to as a whole other their sort of two different two different rounds, but yet huge they must all be crazy. Everyone involved in the must know that their bring it on the matrix. They must know that they there there the first steps before the did machine takes over, they must know. They must know that. There's no humanity in that stock market shit. That's all the thing is, and and again I don't want digital technology to get blamed for this right, because the real operating system there promoting is not the digital operating system, its economic operating system underneath it it's this thirteenth century, central currency, interest bearing debt based economy and none of the guys I thought. We'd get us out of Williams with Twitter Mark Zuckerberg with Facebook, the kids from Google right there

each of them had a real shot, even bill gates at breaking the central economy and an flipping things the away, how do not going to they're not going public, not be good, not doing it with venture capital, saying if I can, if, if Google can hack web search, if Facebook can hack Social, if Twitter can hack everybody, why can't they do you know if they're so busy, dissenter mediating? All These different things. Why? Why doesn't anyone of them yet wanted disintermediate, central banking and say no and chase? We don't actually need you actually going to we're. Gonna do our whole thing through Kickstarter, say like one did didn't want things up. Yeah, that's an interesting point of view. I think they probably would never want to take that stand because they would be killed. I would imagine there's a lot of money in in them. Being successful with that quest

that the question is there a point at which you're doing Paypal pal we're going to let people do individual transactions that was there their original model and they were going to make money on the float and then the thanks came to them and said: are you know I do that? You're, not a bank paper. Kids, you gotta, be you know, committee There is a bank or you're going to have to be connected to one of us and that's when you know Paypal kind of becomes. Ebay, rather than whatever these crazy guys. It done, and I I suppose there's this point. You know where you know innocently these companies that get bigger and bigger, bigger, hoping to do the right things, and then it's like we're to gonna to let you do this. If you don't, if you don't play by our rules, but I also feel like there's companies that, if you If you're willing to go smaller, if you're willing to let it grow a little bit slower that you can scale up, you can become a big ethical corporate.

Yeah yeah. I was always wondered why a big corporation couldn't be ethical, like I can have a big corporation with a good ideology behind it. You know, but I think it's really, because the shareholders right and shareholders are impatient shareholders. Are there they're not really there right there the shareholders are? Are people who just want to see number go up by the next quarter, and if you have to make a number go up by the next quarter, then you're going to have to be thinking about something other than doing good in the world. Yeah you if it is ones and zeros at all cost yeah yeah, if that's the game, you're playing and what you, but shareholders, then you're going to throw you in jail. If you don't do that, I mean that's your fiduciary responsibility in this fascinating thing that you a corporation can do something that an individual would be a total piece of shit to do. If it was one person that was involved in this one guy, what he did was he

You know he gave the loans to the third World Company, the countries that they couldn't pay back. He went over their monopolies. Are natural resources himself dug the oil lie himself polluted the river himself. You, know a raft and killed the villagers himself. He built Jesus I like that fuckin guy in jail is making people work for five hours a week. You know that guy with areas there is holding down you now, but it's a corporation like well they're making money for their exactly and how many people who, on the one hand, I will read. You know good magazine or something or listen to us and p And be all sad about that stuff, still has a four one k plan with stocks in the very company that are doing those days so who are they they're the ones who actually only company there, the shareholder? Who wants a thing to go up, so they can send the kid to college I mean it's it's it's interesting circular get so I mean for how own virtuous that circle is, though I think unwinding it is Just- is just as easy.

So it's like. Okay, instead of doing the sort of long distance, long term disconnected investments and mining companies, I'm gonna invest my money and where I see it, people actually know in the place where I am we're trying to do something you know and bring it bring it if not, if not local, at least at least into your present, at least into your into your visible reality yeah and it it really is the the the pursuit of the end goal of simply only ones and zeros done through a a corporate way is really anti human, I mean that's the that's. The real anti human aspect of it is that it will engage human suffering as long as it's willing to extract ones and zeros from that like right. Now how How how much human suffering are we willing to cause how much devastation to the environment or we want a round much? Which is why, then, the question becomes, I mean in the nightmare scenario. Then. Is you invest that into take now?

jeez so that your robots know they're not in competition with us, but they are playing the corporate programme. They have no right design. There are other than to extract extract value in meaning from on those computers. Running algorithms recognize trends in the marketplace before a human could never see it coming and then browner countered an meanwhile as we're making ourselves dumber about technology right here in this code, Cademy T shirt right, wanted people to learn to code as we become more stupid about. Are Voters are computers. Hearing smarter about us right do in big data repositories of every every keystroke, great everything you know it there. They know they know stuff about, as they knew some teenage girls pregnant before family did and now No one kids are going to be gay before they know themselves. If they think they're they're there there's got really smart nine. How about the one hundred sent that comes when you go to a google when you, Google, something or you look for things that certain things online and then they go to to Youtube and there's ads

for things that you've recently looked at. That is scary, tantalizing ads. Oh, I see you're into jeeps jeeps. We have a jeep for sale and it's a new jeep and here's a video you can. Click on and there a be testing that you know. There's, which is which de he asked the girl not cheaper, Jeep Carlini. Ok, they even that next time to see TED they'll show you everything that you're into you, like you, son of a bitch it's weird! It's just the beginning, we're accepting it slowly, accepting the needle into our vein that pumps in nano cells that eventually replace human tissue, if it's going to be a commercial, is going to be an artificial guy is going to be saying. Why would you want to be natural you're going to ride? it's not fun? Life gets even better is when they go by your house and your by your little nanobots to from like the most reputable company. You know the one that you really like and a great user agreement and then but then after it's in you, it's like they get

by Google, all of a sudden, your user agreement shifted, you know agreed it. You know Do you want to have you know? Do you want to? Amber your your children's names. You know. Ok, then signed this use. This new user agreement right knows no data, people, two phone numbers, your emergency, nine hundred and eleven emergency call phone like your phone, it's not registered and only let you call nine one one that will be the same thing. Well, you should have paid your bill. I don't know why you want to pay your bill here. You are with no recourse yeah. I look at a shiny guy from the future he's one thousand years old and it looks great, but it's going to be all artificial, but again it's not it's not with artificial artificialness. It's not necessarily, although it may be, is it's not necessarily the technology? That's the problem in this equation. It's the company, that the technology ripen.

Ultimately, what's getting done the technologies getting push. That seems to be right. The case in every single situation that ultimately at the top of the execution food chain, we look alike. What is being done at the end level, it's really the game. Changer, the technology constantly increases and with every you know, overtake with every you know new again, take invention in bundles of money that go along with it and all the people that get fucked over at the end of the day, the technology keeps moving forward

it's getting stronger and stronger and stronger. It was, but it's not just stronger, though it's it's, it's fundamentally different. I mean that's the thing that Mcluhan was trying to bring up the emotional cooling, the mediators he was looking at, that the different environments, the different media, different kinds of technology create. So you know fire had to change the had a media environment had a technological lead was fire now, because you know people could then go live further north in colder places in little apes. You know who were smart enough to have fire to get away from big done, Mapes, who you know couldn't travel to chase them. You know we got different raises all sorts of things: happened because it's something like fire or the invention of text right, the invention of text changed well. For me, it changed the way we look at time right 'cause. Now I can write something now that I'm going to be accountable for later, so we can have contracts with text. We got history, we got the judeo christian line of thought, we got law and ethics, you know we got

are. We got the calendar. You know, then you know that all went along and we developed. Then we get the printing press and we get the clock right now, the clock. All of a sudden. We go oh wow. Now we can actually breakdown the day into these little pieces. We put one up at the town Square and that's when time became money. That's when it's like! Ok now you can work for an hour for me,

of making a thing that you're connected to and selling it to me now, you can work for the hour two hours three hours, we got a standard, and now we get the digital media environment. You know, which is just as different as the industrial age media environment than the clock was from the printing press from the from written text, from from from even fire, no and in the digital media environment. There's this it's not just more tech. It's it's more, it's more of a sense of of moving through time, in a choice to choice, to choice, to choice way in a where we just have more choices than we know what to do. If we spend more time processing choice itself, then we do getting the things that we've chosen. You notice like that. The call waiting is almost like the typical kind of digital choice to just enter our I'm talking to this level, and I've got a call waiting. What do I do, you're just to be put in that just to be put yourself in that in that interrupt of state is very digital, because you you want to have the choice

is that person wants to reach you, but how you know how that interrupts? What what used to be a more continuous way of of just a moving through life yeah, it's a it's, certainly gives us more options and we're naturally designed to handle and the more people have on their facebook page, the more likely they really. They have zero connection to those people. The the I mean like like we're we're designed for Dunbar's number. Eight hundred fifty people yeah and get the get five thousand people on Facebook page will, who the does that mean? Who are you talking about right? Well, you in your mind in your marketing. You know what a what kind of interaction I you really yeah. Well, it's not the same. It's not a human to human interaction. The other weird thing my facebook, for me again, is how it compresses time. So it's like they're these people from like second and third grade on Finally, forty five, whatever years away from that, and then it's like two weeks,

oh hi, I'm Mary from second grade. It's like, oh, my god, I'd. Finally, I'd left that behind me it's on Mars, I don't know she is its through. I was who she relates to it's just it was in the past. He's right now and now it's here, but then on the front in I've, got the computer on the other side, calculating everything about my keystroke. So They know my future right who's going to be who's going to be gay who's gonna be, is gonna, be that so it's like okay, it was like my past. Is all in here and now my futures, all here and everything's, just sort of crushed in on me there? I don't feel feel the Thomas anymore. I don't feel like I have agency, I don't feel I'm in charge. I can't get away from anything and I can actually be moving towards anything with a sense of free will, but can you mean it you you're sort of in control and have of how much interact with it. How much each right you get! That's! Why I I dropped Facebook, you dropped it yeah. I just like that too much yeah. Are you still used to order yeah

What it it stays there lies spoke up. Problematic facebook is that parliament will real problem with Facebook is I'm not in charge of what I do on Facebook is because Mark Zuckerberg can use me or my likeness in an ad of something I don't even know what it is getting, so you can't do that anymore than I thought. Oh really, he undid that I think that was something that wasn't supposed to happen supposedly or they backtracked about that they do. They go two steps forward. One step back, two steps forward, one step back: it's sort of an ever evolving user agreement, and where the part that I had gotten concerned about was your arm on, there is an author right. I'm on their by my book. With me. You know and like my ideas, uhm, I can't do that. I can't solicit the likes of other people of readers of people who I'm supposedly uh advising about this stuff, especially about sort of media, ethics and integrity. I can't invite

them to like my page when that very active liking is making them vulnerable to marketing. That's going to be passing through me beyond my country, yes, and no, because they're also providing you with this excellent connection with all these people that's available through Facebook or not, is limited to it, with a hundred or to carry out, I'm willing to pay for the privilege to reach those people, but I am not willing to have them and their likeness is used to represent things. I don't think that may understand what liking make someone vulnerable to. I don't feel so I mean on some. This is patronizing. I guess what I'm saying is. I think I know stuff about this technology that they don't if they all knew really how this worked. If they all knew the implications of what they were doing then

would say: let's, let's go for it, but I really do worse. Consequences is what marketing they're gonna be marketed to going to be represented, so their image within be put on something. So if it, but it no, I'm pretty sure that I'm a hundred percent sure no they right. Then they drop that thing of their photos in advertising and you're not going to profit. They they're not allowed to just take your photos just Just got photos. They know they're, not gonna. Do with your photos that what you're talking about generous or you talk about the the of the photo thing they bought I'm not about using, but for you were saying like using it for at sponsored stories and how they use people in a sponsored story, at least the day that I quit at

point it would nothing. You can turn it off, but yeah that that that that there's things like that that are on, but there's ways to turn my I'm not there. I'm I'm confused. There are, but with the lead, Ponsford story, but union people don't know, I feel like most people don't know and just to be there. It just didn't seem like, and it also because I so don't trust who they are and what they're, what they're about? I don't trust them as a company the way I want to trust the kinds of companies I like get bigger and bigger and, and deeper into my lives and eventually put problem. My brain and do not trust in me because just in Timberline play them in a movie Zog guarantee the other one now with any other way play that China deplore the good guy. Now he played the Myspace story and how much of it not about coke and horse for her sound possessed with those guys if it is to take their money in Berlin Green. Why didn't you ever going to have you gonna? Take facebook if you're gonna say you dont trust Facebook, you can't trust twitter. You can't trust, Google. You can't trust any of this.

No, but I'm aware right now, I'm aware of the ways that Twitter is broadcast, I feel in control of how I'm tweeting tweeted dealers, almost worse, though, because there actually to the point where you you try to go back in time and your time while you can either their gets a cut off point where you can download your own tweets. Unless no, the exact exact it may end up, don't than they end up. Given you, your history, I do it on mine and that's the same with like twit pics- are. Are these photo ones like some other of them now you're, seeing so, which is that you're saying that you want going to if you're going to do tweets? You want addition for your free tree or free tweeting. You want them to maintain, an archive of you and everyone else for our. I am I I personally. I personally don't have a problem with that. But what I'm saying is that that's kind of more ridiculous to me than Facebook, not I can't even access stuff that I've that

No, you can't save it or whatever the thing I'm concerned about. I mean this is what in the book I call it. Did your friend yeah. You know, I feel like the problem with with Digital, for most people is not this idea of information overload, there's too much stuff coming at them, but they They can't maintain more than one online persona. Simon Many say that there's too many sort of individual instances of us and if you're gonna have different instances of yourself. You know even your email, inboxes. Some is an instance of a sort. You can have all these different, different things out there filling up or interacting. You want to be damn well sure that you're in charge of each one of them in you Know- and I don't feel I felt like facebook- was now doing things on my behalf. I would like one step of control. Will you make a very good point in that having more than one version of yourself comes very problematic, especially if you're involved in any like real I'm sure you probably interact with quite a few people every day, and that on twitters, someone able do to do when you can, but

Do that on twitter and then have to hop over to Facebook like it's like. You should have one portal, no one Porto at least one. That's one that it was always said, you know, I really didn't go to Facebook much and I go there and the be like some relative, you know I just heard of your mom's passing is six months have gone by before I found that message and you know want to consult whatever it's it's just such a it's. For me, it was such an awful interface anyway that I was just losing losing stuff there, but yeah. It's I don't think it's just has to do with old. I get more uh correspondence from other people, so I've got I've got a limited more than others. I think it really has to do with well, if anything, it's at least on the canary in the cage for what's coming for everybody else I it. You know. People only need to get one or two emails, and now it's just streaming info. But yeah. If you send me something on Facebook, I don't read it it's just to let everybody know 'cause they pile up. I don't have time

So I'm with you in a certain way. I still use Facebook to put up links, but it's connected to my twitter in a pretty cognizant of yes, when I put a tweet up on when I put a link up on Facebook and make sure it's short enough to fit into a tweet yeah with with the lead, at least with with Twitter. I mean you, you understand what you're putting out you put on. Is that a hundred forty things it went to your people and those words are out there right. It's like with with tool like Facebook. You don't really have the same sense of of ownership. Over what's going and you dont, have you don't actually have it right? Your picture is used Douglas went into Starbucks just now. I could turn it off, so everyone should turn it off.

So right! So again you know it's like. I feel like it's, it's a useful, it's a useful tool, but it's it's! It's just part of the trustworthiness of a good portion of the net yeah. Well, I can see that with someone else being control of the the the interaction and someone else being control, ultimately of like when you signed a user agreement, you have all this information, they just sort of put up online your

you're, trusting it to them and then turned their marketing and to you I mean that's, that's it's really yeah clean relationship as long as they don't you, but yeah yeah. I mean there's a point at which you know I'm all I'll, let Netflix and I to whoever's in behind my tv remote I mean now. They know all that stuff right right, I mean I'll. Let them craft commercials around. That's like all. Almost all, except in this, in this little arrangement we have with this, is Alex stepped anything incoming. You know she, but don't use me for your outgoing yeah. There is once you're taking the person's identity than saying you know, Alice down the street like this a sit com to you should watch that and then my what I'm watching is getting broadcast to them or what they think I'd be watching. That's where it starts to be like, oh now, I'm being disembodied now, I'm being taken. I think so yeah it's it's a

Facebook is one of the most popular websites online and it's also one of the best ways to waste time, like you can waste a day easily, just looking up people that used to have sex with, and I just find them annoying when it's pitch up two. Oh, my goodness, look how fat she got. Well, you could do that all day. You did. All day and then the you know entertain and you're not getting done. That's right! It's like a the the. I tried to use twitter one of the things that I do with it is when and where, whenever someone sends you something fascinating in a link I retweeted, and because of that, you you become like a portal for cool and people know that if they send me cool all retreat, and so you get all this Cool should just starts coming to you when you sort of have that idea and then, if you send it, they sent it to you and it becomes this really exponentially expanding thing where you know eat you be either

Have this like a radio channel or or like an information dump? What percent of the tweets that you get? Do you think you will pass on it's not that high? which, because it's not always years, only filled her well I'll, have to look at it. You know I mean if it's really interesting, I look at it, but sometimes us any something like I'll. Do that's nonsense like when it did you see with his came from like you read the lake now they built that is not big foot and that that guy's fridge shut the fuck up a substance with its, but but that makes you a reliable, are reliable, filter ye. You can't just retweet things, but I do reach will occasionally. If someone says something really preposterous, our will retreated just to see how people react in out. There's

Or if someone, if people get mad at me or retweet it just to see how they react? It's just it's just we live in strange time, yeah! It's! The twitter interface is a very bizarre one. The idea that you only give one hundred and forty characters and people abuse a shoot out of that. Sometimes people send me, like thirty tweets in a row like explaining. And to me like to stop now, you know it's out there, the June things like Snapchat he played with that. Are you know? What is that the one where you you take a picture and it's like you can send it, but it dissolves in like three seconds or five all right, so sick of kids? Apparently I mean this: is the dark secret kids are leaving Facebook. You know that the demographic the younger, like you know they are the sixteen- is right falling totally. Often there do things like Snapchat 'cause, they don't want. They don't want to be putting everything they're doing on their permanent record. I mean they finally kind of hectic and show someone there pushing only last for three minutes, and then you survive seconds. If you screenshot it done, then you save it on re upload. It

knows, but if you screenshot it at least tells them that they've I mean so it's been defeated, but if you screen save it the at least the person who sent you. The thing knows that you did that they've they've given given that control but yeah, but just this quest for truly you know, Julie, Present based non archivable silliness, but you know, which was when we were silly. We got to do here in the parking lot of the seven hundred and eleven is like, and there is no camera in the back either. It was really just happens instead of the seven hundred and eleven stays at seven hundred and eleven now it's like it. Every single silly thing they did if they didn't boast about, their friend boasted about its. It was still up there and it's like may as well be patched and in a way that passions the side of the Parthenon, not only that, but the ideas behind what you can and can't do or enforced by these archaic laws that were written when none of this digital technology was avail.

So because of that you get a lot of weird shit happens like there's. A one girl who got charged with child pornography could shape. She was sending photos of her naked body to boys in her class, and so the cops arrested her and charge this young girl. She was fifteen years old with child pornography selling. Iled yeah me talk about losing the scripts. That's that's really losing script for life I mean that is yeah. That is the ninety should ever you're you. You found a child porn using pen right there. Now is the time to be a child yeah. It's like you, know, exact Zero tolerance on it doesn't matter if she's a child but dad it's her vagina doesn't matter. Son she's a criminal mastery is victimizing, is: is re, dark hunger, she's, she's, feeding the dark son son. We discourage this in a big way. Solitary confinement but this really just a temporal lag, hopefully yeah now, so I think that our laws then catch up or we I mean,

and also I mean some sense lack of privacy could help that along too. It's like, if you know, if Google cameras finding like tens of thousands of people just smoking joints in the street of every american city. You know something some point: they have to go. Ok, just let people other people smoke pot. Let gays get married all right, yes, except to a smoke. Pod thing, there's money in enforcing it. Biggest issue, more money in enforcing it should never be in in selling it now, but it would be two different people and I buy it from the hands of the people that are baked making money by keeping it illegal, whether it's the the price prison industry, whether it's the prison guards unions, whether it's different, pharmaceutical companies that would stand to lose profits when there's going gonna be a bunch of people that are trying to stop anything. Any change, especially changes in legality, because there's a big business in locking people up for, should, I know they're going to have to

maintain an illegal population right to stay alive, they're going to have to rest more and more. If they're going to have corporate growth, yeah, greater greater percentage of America has to be in prison every single year until it's an asymptotic curve and there's like one guy left. That becomes a really interesting scenario. If marijuana does become legal and you could trade on the future of marijuana, what the FUCK commander wanted does have it. There are some stocks that are marijuana stocks really yeah, that people trade. How is that possible, whether the companies that I guess that I've already laid out a marijuana strategy or or they're ready for it? Look at that percentage of the US prison population that are nonviolent drug offenders in the nineteen eighty then in two thousand and ten percent and then two thousand twelve twenty five percent yeah the war on drugs. Folks, they're winning more people are in jail

I guess, if they're winning, I don't know as long as you have a private prison system, it's good for the economy. The whole thing is fucking bananas. It's just the fact that in this day and age, you still can't make a logical argument as to why certain things are legal and illegal, certain things that are legal which are devastating to your health and then, when you find out that information has been withheld and that companies may have known about certain risks, no one seems to go to jail. If anything happens, people get fined a little bit, but if that was an individual, a person that did that, oh, my god, that would be a horrible human being, a personal person, one person who's responsible for all the deaths that came from aspirin alone. You would want to head that's why there's some ways to get more conscious of it, though, because it's all of us right, it's all of us who are part of that system or owning that corporation

shareholders or whatever, and these things they come. If you were seen as slavery, foot print dot org. Now it's a for the fun website. You got to do it when you're feeling good about yourself that what it does is you you put in everything that you own. If you have a car or not, we live in this and that and it calculates how many slaves in for Keith. We're here right now, God like with like ever getting that yeah Gettin, the molybdenum for your Iphone or whatever it is, you know losing their fingers in that thing, molybdenum, molybdenum, yeah metal, is a rare, rare metal wow. I never heard that one I've just recently heard Colton, that's that's the stuff they get in the car.

Go for so yeah, something that's really good for that matter. Is it connected yeah yeah, something to do with electronic? I am connected with in the use of our cell phones, it's so I've. I've found it to be so bizarre and one of the more bizarre things in life that the most complex stuff that we use like cell phones or computers, that the The base of it, the origins early. This mine is a whole yeah around what is a minor but there's also human suffering. Yet just why I don't like the idea that my computer, which could really do everything I needed to do, is rendered obsolete by change an operating systems that really are unnecessary except to sell another computer. You know that the difference does not, but aren't they necessary because they're trying to continue to improve the product and can

you need to add more functionality, and I stopped believing that at least the rate at which they do. I sometimes feel like there's a amid used to be sort of windows and intel that you know win, doesn't make a complex operating system so that you have to get the next Intel chip and then Intel would would create a tweak on that that makes you need. The next You know the next one is operating system sort, would leap frog each other, and it feels like that with them yeah. You know your your yeah. Your iphone is better things now then three iphones ago. But what about all these iphones in the garb in all these people who lost all this stuff that amount of time compressed into one of these. One of these devices is really intense. You know that at least one of our our goals when we're developing new technologies and new technology pathway should be well, what's the one that going to actually require the sales of the least of the fewest amount of computers. I don't know people apple or going. How could we so? How could we need to sell?

this computer, so that you know people don't have to throw out these old ones. Have you seen those photos of Cuba of the old cars yeah, because Cuba doesn't get new cars? They have car, like the fifth yeah, the center also seasoning yeah, but a lot of them are gorgeous yeah, the beautiful, but they do drive like that's the problem. If you drive like a modern day B M w, and then you go back to all those stupid Chevys from the, Anti fifties those things a dog shall really they break terrible they'd the handle like a horse on roller skates, their ridiculous cars there so stupid, to be thrown into rebel without a cause today, and you have done that car, it would not be there, it wouldn't be the experience, we're thinking to talk they're terrible? You could with a Prius, you could easily get away from some guy in a fifty five chevy. There's no way you keep up this, like those things are terrible. They can't take corners the brain. This stupid drum brakes. I mean they might as well have a rock that you throw out that's attached to a rope to

your car's tell you take a you. Take a fifty seven t bird over and over to segue yeah, yes over, but just because it could rain okay, but I like the idea that you know they've managed to recycle these cars and keep them working in right, keep them running and it's it's really cool to see. He'd aesthetically, it's beautiful! It's gorgeous and you see a and a modern street in this day and age, and you see these beautiful like and you can tell they're proud people because he's a shiny cars. I mean they're they're painted nice and they're done well in their restored well or,

these maintained. Well, I mean I don't know how many miles some of these cars have on them, but not there, they do look. It does look amazing. I know in there is that you know I feel like there's a a hunger for stuff, not just fifties, but also sort of sixties madmen period that the nurse dowager for that is that's right before this digital age started. That's like the height of the tv agents. You know putting satellites in space. That was that in a sense you know you know it's funny, because people look at these kind of shows and all you know aren't they. You know it's about it's about their. You know Dickinson,

not their innocence. No, they believe in there. They got. You know. What's that you know when you look around la it's like everybody's got, he would weak field in their house and trying to get this old g e fridge raiders with the sort of ground it covers. No there's that longing for I thank the industrial age just feels so real. You know it's a solid when people made stuff, you know it wasn't just kind of printed right, yeah, there's that that also like, when you see those cars just like such a human element and that old stuff, like even like sixties muscle cars like those are sort of like human created works of art. As opposed to you know, you look at like a new Mazda or something like that. A real modern car- and they look, looks like something that just like came out of a machine. They screwed to there. It came out of the machine. You look like a sixty. Nine chevy doesn't like it note, Chevy Camaro Six and I come out. That's that's some somebody screwed together, there's some men working behind that there's some people put tires on on the wheel and bolted right place here,

some guys who work some wrenches is no doubt about it. You look at that thing. That's a mechanical creation, it's not a computer creation and we're slowly moving towards the Prius and I'm fine with computer creation, aesthetic. If It means that we don't have to work right, but though they didn't it's like, so they get rid of all these guys is screw it in the screws and it's like just then let them stay houses. They end up fuck. This goes up to ticket up words. Exactly yeah, but that's the whole thing too. It's like so now we have. The big problem in America is unemployment and right is talking about getting jobs, jobs, jobs, jobs, jobs who people who wants a job? I don't want a job, you, a job people, don't want jobs, people. The stuff that you get when you have a job. They want the money that you get for having a job, but they don't want the jobs right. So meanwhile, though, we've got more than enough stuff where,

burning food every week to keep market prices. High, were tearing down Bank of America's tearing down houses in California because they're in foreclosure. You can't just let someone live in it. It's gonna bring brightly down. They turn down what the termed, because there there would have to sell at distressed prices that would then lower prices of other properties. They're trying to keep up it would cost them more and if you own ten house in a town and one isn't going to sell you, tear down in right now, Bank comes along and create some sort of a program to give houses to needy people. Then it's going to lower the real estate values of the of the mortgage is that they've invested in that are already teetering, so they can't do that, so charity itself becomes unprofitable. Well, it's

been quite profitable like. Why is it generally doable? What if we figured out that? Okay, we only need, rather than having everybody work. Forty hour weeks, which is based on a clock of the industrial age? How much can we have people work in a weekend? What, if people, don't really have to work that much for us to have everything we want? What? If ten percent of people could work, you know two days a week and we get everything in so you go in you. Do your work, I'm going to do my work in April, two thousand and seven. You know, then, I'm go again in March. What, if it got that you really didn't, need everybody working all the time for everybody to have stuff. We couldn't deal with that, not because we don't have technologies to do that. We can't deal with it because we don't have an economy. We don't know how to divvy up the spoils. The reason that you have a job is so that you can be entitled to a share of what's actually in abundance, but because there's not enough job our people. We got to rip up stuff and Bruce stuff. That's in abundance right! You know this is we can't give it out, there's also the social issue of not having jobs when people don't feel like they've,

made their own way or pulled their own weight. They feel they feel right. Well. That's why you got so period yeah, but but you gotta, replace employment. You know with work and employment is a new invention, employment. Again industrial age. We used to work for each other and ourselves. We only got jobs when we got the clock when we could work on the clock, then were employed you, but we don't have to employed in order to work in order to have meaning. If you don't have to have your job, you don't stop. You just have to find a new niche into the system if I have to find- a thing, the new way to contribute to your to the world yeah. I completely agree with that that too many people find sort of a pre existing way to interact and they don't create their own way to interact, and in doing so you off Times miss on one of the best things which is accomplishing things It's accomplishing starting your own restaurant and keeping it open and in or having a car

shop that only fixes a certain type of automobile that you really love to work on. You know when you can figure out a way to something the you actually have a passion for. It's like that, the the old cliche it stops becoming work it just it becomes your easy. You don't really have a job. You have a thing that you love right you're in flow at that point, how how many people have well as Promet? You can't have it in this economy. You can have it. When you have this kind of education system, you can have it. What about just a real, naturally dull people that need to be pushed. It is very poor. Well yeah, but you know so not everyone has to be the one that figures out how to do. The new method of bio, Dynamic, Rudolf, Steiner, farming, on their organic community supported agriculture plant? Someone can just go there and plant plant. Carrots. Also, the issue of how human beings are raised in the first place, which is so huge and not really addressed the

The reason why some of these people fall into these mindless jobs is because never along the line of they've been stimulated, never online by their family by the school systems by their environment by their atmosphere by their. You know, the fellow knuckle in their community they're, all just surrounded by people who are either like minded or you know or support it. There, you kind fucked and then, when something comes along that eliminates that job for that guy, that robot job when he was forty five years old old fifty years old, he has to start again and sort of reignite, some sort of passion and curiosity or die off like a dinosaur and it's hard to 'cause. He was like in the thing you did you know if it's a toll, collector right, you know and you get better and better at it, and then you start. You know, then test to see how many people you can make eye contact with when you're the tolls and how many lives can you change with that? I mean gosh. It can be that you could live the so if, as a toll collector you'll, they take that away from him and it's not just that. He can't be retrain.

He doesn't have motivation. I mean it's not that it's not his fault, that they broke his heart. They should have a show where guys a toll, collector and just see how we interact with people and then give them projects like today, you're just going to casually mention your penis. Let's see maybe people freak out back to your reality, roots yeah, very funny you do did you have you can do a talk, legit how to do it pretty fast yeah? Well, it's uncertain mdf, a weird way to experiment how people interact when they don't have to it's really quick. You know how many people treat you like how you doing what's going on everything, cool care, man take care, you're get a broad variety for the way people in IRAN. I think that we kind of you I wouldn't like hold up as a series right.

Maybe as as a one hour special special, the toll guy yeah, yeah, yeah yeah, I just have a guy- would send you have we have to do like you break it. Up with Michael will sit down, yeah those chairs and then have a discussion about the last couple ones that we seen what it really means. People love that fast track thing. Now, though, they won't going to pay a toll, they want a political thing and they just go through. So like New York is one of the weirdest scenarios ever because somewhere along the line, they just decided to make people pay to get to the city. It used to be that they were paying to get the bridge built, but they that fucking thing off a long time ago? Every bridge got paid off a long time ago, but the revenue is so intoxicating. They just kept with it. We can we stand, then California, because we don't really have a we get anywhere anywhere. Villages were built, but now they got all be rebuilt, they rebuilt the rebuilt in the Hudson bridge. They were building it building and building and and by the time they finished, they had a star

rebuilding it again and that many years to reach Why that's nonsense that the big one is is the dumbest way to make traffic you have spot where everyone has to stop on the way into the city that is so stupid when you are going from Long Island to Manhattan. That is the most maddening shit to do at eight thirty. In the morning you want to fucking, kill some because it's so stupid, maybe any stop box. You should make people pay either either you could justify that the construction, the bridge, the maintaining of the bridge, but they should pay for through their taxes, and that There shouldn't be a spot. We have to stop because that's fucking dumb. The only reason why you would want to do that if you want to check cars for bombs or nutty people, or are you just trying to discourage yeah? Well, maybe try this trying to discourage get people into L. I r r and D Rapid transit, the way God intended and discourage people from coming into the city, because the easier it is

The say the more this traffic sucks and sucks already it's terrible make it so and then charge for making it knapsack Is this really twenty dollars that you can't fix the suck. That way, because have the green for twenty dollars will give you the green light. Do you live in Manhattan now? Do you live in I live in New York LIVE in Westchester County. I lived in New Rochelle for a little bit. Yeah yeah he's dings on Hudson yeah. It's some! That's a that's a beautiful area! That's nice that hold the Westchester's get some night spots yeah it does it's a little snooty, some of it. So there's couple of towns in Westchester that kind of retain some yet linux to reality. It's not just Westchester is. It is, though, you'll be in a neighborhood where you're seeing these mansions with these giant lawns and then you'll go half a mile and you're in the project,

Well, it's not project. So much little more Jersey, Jersey, ask if you drive through the orange! Is that it really you get that sense. I mean most of West Chester's, pretty pretty affluent at this point you know, but you know It is not as affluent as Manhattan, it is the most affluent and well right. Well yeah I mean you you for your insight, Bloomberg's, well, if you made it in their somehow, you know when you in an apartment was Amelia. You ve got ten million dollars of real estate or something but You know anywhere else, didn't quite it's not quite that those places are madness. Those multimillion dollar apartments like, way of living in a big city like that is so alien is only exists in Manhattan where you have so many people living in apartments and it creates it's a different community and in the sense it's more connected than than LOS Angeles says who it is. I mean most things about, it are,

more consonant with our era in our digital economy and all that it's a better carbon footprint to stack people up like that that have everybody having an and fertilizer and whatever else they get in the suburbs. So I mean it's it's it's good on on most of those levels, it just New York itself is so crazy, expensive. You know through God knows what sort of realistic shenanigans are done. That's what sort of then for me colors, the the experience of of you know urban joy there Unisom, no one is an artist or are you know, writer, regular of regular means could live there, yeah! That's where you guys really crazy.

We see. A small apartment is like three thousand bucks. A month the like okay, that's just nuts. That means a guy makes fifty thousand dollars a year has to give up three quarters of his income to pay is rat nuts right, so it's safe. I mean, I don't know if you need crime to it, to make it better. But you know you go back to that that the era of you know by ski odd. You know he couldn't live in in Manhattan. Now you know none of that. None of the folks from then or the room. And while well they were queens actually, but you know or any of his. You remember forty second street, the real here but that's the thing, though it's like exhaustive, as was

oh, I was you know it was awful terrify yeah. It was terrifying, India, there certain some part that waxes nostalgic, but that's not a good old days that you really want to return to either it's just like. How can you have a New York that works and is still artistic and alive and vibrant and fertile and not have people? You know, get and stem the subway yeah? And how can you have so many rich? We will live in the yellow, you'd have to be registered lived there I mean it's, it's really difficult the pool of living in Manhattan. If you don't have

at least you know of of upper middle class income. So yeah, it's a strange, strange place, unlike any place in this country. You know, there's no place in the country, it's so over valued and get a decent apartment in San Francisco for half of what you'd spend an apartment in Manhattan. Think of the San Francisco knows gotten worse something yeah one of those lists. Well, the worst there's some places outside of San Francisco, the Regis and saying like we're near Stanford. They have, I think it's called answered in the highest real state in the country, and you you look at these people that I know have this house of their. Is it an acre and a half is worth fifteen million dollars in look into this house like what are you talking about? It doesn't make any sense, but it's like everybody in the neighborhood is all their old tech people. They all they'll make insane amounts of money and the various tech bubbles and booms over the years and all that Google monies up there.

All that apple monies up there and there's just a lot of fucking people that have incredible amounts of cash up there so real estate. They need houses. This is where they live so real season through through the roof roof right. You will look, you look at like I I enjoy doing that sometimes like could I live in Phoenix? Let's see what you know what the neighborhoods are like in Phoenix and I'll go. Look at real estate in Phoenix for a goof. You look in Atherton an what's eleven million dollars like get the fuck outta here some Venerian dollars or they gotta, be. You know, bike distance from Facebook or every area. Is raising bubble of of money in this strange one of really strange one, because it

and you go a mile over and we stopped at this Wendy's and was like a really sketchy. Wendy's agreement like this place, is kind of dirt bag, Ishe to be a mile away from a fifteen million dollar house like it's so strange. Well, there's no middle anymore yeah, that's sort of got the! I got spun out in the in the spin cycle at the end of the yeah this industrial age here. Well, I would be chance, it is none, but I mean the certain, certainly a diminished. Very

yeah very little, but you know like you're saying now, if, if the, if that lower ninety eight percent or ninety nine percent, whatever it is, gets fed up enough it'll network with itself rather than trying to get some down from the top Sonny was set up, it seems like we only act when for staff yeah, we we need a desperation, we need. You know we need to have no options, and then we move into this new stage of understanding what the the real problem- yeah. Yes, but that's and that's different and again that's that's. The whole point of of being in the present of present ism is that, instead of going on some long marks on some other twentieth century movement or this eyes on the prize and just the means justify the means battle to the future thing we go screw of that, we just want it now we're going to just do it, that's what was so encouraging about the Occupy movement,

they are. What are your demands? What we want from must we want you, you you say we're not going to going to state our demands. Actually do this thing, you know and that's where that's get to what do? One thing, though there were the real isn't right can try to occupy the world in which we live. I look like an occupier movement to white blood cells like they recognized as an issue, and they they gather around it. And you know it's like it calls it to the issue and but the? they're gathering around six spot. I mean that they know there's something wrong here and so everybody's like this is a spot.

So going down right there right and then they try to educate, they do teach ends and learn about stuff. A lot of lot of people know more about these issues now than it did before, and they see it as a super long term project I mean this year. They did occupy debt and the debt jubilee. So what they're doing is buying pennies on the dollar, the debt of people like you've got health bills. They can't pay and all that 'cause it's just owned by credit companies, so they buy their debt and just believe it wow. So it's kind of cool if they take ten dollars and believe like one thousand bucks a debt and it's well worth it. That's interesting, that's a great idea and I think that's a great commute.

The idea that there's a lot of people out there that have a spare five dollars or spare ten dollars. We don't even think about it, but if you get enough of those people, you can enact some real change wheel in really help people. What do you think is like what? What is the best way besides podcasting, besides books and besides having actual conversations with people where you explore these ideas? What is what is the best way to get people to understand that true, happy Nis really does come from a sense of community. One of the interviews that I saw with you, you were talking about your youth and you were talking about living in a place where you all shared a large backyard and it became sort of a community thing where everybody would get together and have like a yeah and that was it so yeah, so full of thin queens, and we had. It was like one barbecue pit at the end of the block that was just on all weekend, so We were lower middle class. My dad got a better job. We leave queens, we go to

month. Scarsdale. These know these westchester towns yeah. It's like you, don't barbecue with the Joneses anymore, you barbecue against the Jones. It's like every single family got its own, like three hundred are Weber girl in the back yard and nor would think you know you can invite someone over. I suppose, but it's not that barbecuing was this so low family activity, and I was thinking the well as far as the grill companies concern that better I'd, rather everyone have a grill and nobody grow together, because then they get to sell more grills, you know, but what it's like I've looked in my uh, not the neighborhood, I'm in now, but never I almost went to it's like everybody on the block had a snow blower and I'm thinking, that's really weird, just like ten houses with ten snow blowers, how many do you need for driveway its? I get that every two houses his share, one reform has a share one.

If you want to just get up in the morning- and you don't want to talk to Mr Johnson and use the snow blower first, because you got to be at work at seven thirty, you don't want talk to Mr Johnson is the phase a douche bag. Maybe we should be able to have your own snob lower either only they don't hang residues. Douche bag is because working overtime to save up for that guy, damn snow, blower, easily right, yeah! Well, there's not a lot of people that are happy out there. The rose quote that most men leave lives of silence desperation yeah today and desperation and Marshall. That quote, that humans are the sex organs of the machine world and that desire has this desire to keep up with the to pay.

For those Weber grills, you know as the disconnect you know. I walk in a room now and I feel it feels different when I see people sitting on their devices are used to walk into a room with a bunch of guys. You walk in here and if you guys have devices, but you can feel the family, you can feel you guys are on a on an animal level in touch with each other's by right on whatever that subtle level is, and I going to rooms now, and I don't feel the same group dynamic root that I used even teaching a class. You know twenty years ago versus going into one today when everybody's sweetie what's going on in there. It's just a different. I'm not saying it's worse, although I think it's worse a qualitatively different experience. They have more choice over they do. They can divide their attention the way they want. They have more autonomy over all these things, but they're losing in maybe it's out on the net somewhere, maybe by the time we're in the great great second life. We reconnect but they're missing a certain subtle animal contact that we don't yet fully understand,

Maybe it just needs to be mitigated. Maybe we need to just understand and explore, like the ethics of when two and not to use cell phones when two and not to connect and encourage more connection, Let people know that, like look, that is an impulse just like washing your hands to my gym, just like there's so there's a like a lack of satisfaction in the satisfying or the the completion of that impulse, the the check. Yet what are you check it check it again. What are you getting out of that? Why you not pay attention since the persons front of you you're doing it to like a naughty

SEN washes their hands and yeah I mean that's the whole point. That's the whole reason I write in my books are the book before this was good programmer be programmed, and the idea was just to give people sort of the ten biases of digital media like they're, really good for doing things far away, they're, not good for doing things with someone in the same room. You know because they're they're, you know it's really simple stuff like that. This time idea you know that's, which is that digital technologies asynchronous it doesn't live in time. So don't you try to keep up with it, because it's not in your temporal university in its own, you know, and you can make it conform to yours, but certainly don't run and chase it. It's that it's kind of it's it's at this point it's education. It's just having the conversation, letting people. I I that's the whole thing. If they become more aware than you know, then they stand.

I certainly think a lot of these things, a sort of snuck up on us and we could all do with a lesson or at least an idea of how to manage them more more, more humanly exactly and the trick is for people not to see- and this is My whole thing not to see the messenger of this as the one who saying all this stuff, so bad RO the children are turning more violent. You know that whole kind of peace. Yes, fish hand, wringing thing that so many writers are out there. Like? Are you for technology or against it? You forward or against it? You know, and if you're not just going yeah yeah yeah go business, they think you're against it, and it's like no, no I'm for technology, I'm just against the way. Where happened using it right now, I don't think there's any. I don't think it's a coincidence that people are. I think fundamentally, less happy. Now. I think the have been in a long time. If you look at the amount of people that are on medication for happiness

really what it is if you're on an antidepressant, essentially Yonah medication for happiness, and whether or not that's because of a chemical imbalance that you suffer from or because of the fact that your job sucks and your life sucks and you're just filled with suck every day and you're responding to that well for whatever it is. If you look at those numbers, one or two things is happening, probably both one we're getting fucked over by these pharmaceutical companies and they get unethical doctors to prescribe that shit with impunity. There's that for sure, but then there's also like people are not connected to this world. They don't they don't feel whole it'll feel sad if you're in great pain. It's better to only be in moderate pain or mild pain. If you can take a pill, I mean, what's hard to do, is to get people to go. Oh well. Actually that pain is is kind of a good sign, because it means the only to kind of work here to change change. The way the world is and and and take action? The pain is,

trying to get you to change. The pain is trying to get you to avoid the pain, an you should use your logic to say: what's causing this pain with there's a disconnect, I'm not I'm, not! I'm not. Emotionally satisfied, I'm not connecting with my fellow humans, I'm missing something right. Unless you're up against the wall and there's nothing, you can do to change your circumstances in which you're going to take. Hello! Well, you know it's it's it's! That's the that's the danger there, but I do think the more people can start to get in touch. No for me, it's these rhythms. You know the rhythms of life. You know the twenty eight day lunar cycle in the fact that each week of a lunar cycle, your neurotransmitters change right. So you have an acetyl choline week, followed by a serotonin week, filed by a dopamine we followed by norepinephrine week. Every month is one baboon, but but if you know that, then you like this is a double me weak. That's why I feel like this or I'm getting strangely a hundred, and nowhere is it don't mean we all now colony euro. There is a website, so Myspace dot Org. That he's got it

got it laid out. There was originally was an olympic trainers, Irving Dardic, who figure this stuff out. He was a during a exercising people different times of the day in different parts of the month, and they you know they've been looking at by you know about logical clocks for many years ever since you know major league baseball, pretty much discover jet lag that people, you know, get more jet lag when they travel West to east and to West. They realize all these clocks are not folklore, there's actually something going on here, so the circadian rhythms for the day and the night, but there's also all these other rhythms controlled by different. You know, you know whether or not tropical features in traveling, like that really does with those rhythms right, yeah yep, but as people get in touch with them, I think it could help us. You know get out of some of these. You know Druga drug relationships that we're having you know every taking drugs in order to compensate for the shifting Europe Neuro transmitter

because we're trying to be on all the time, you know I'm in sales, so I got to be in sales when I'm in dopamine week or in serotonin week. No, that's that's hard. What is also the the arrogance of the human mind to think that they can manipulate the hue mind the human mind. Oh I how things here I am going to take over the running of me and I'm going to invent some shit. That makes me run more to my liking. I'd rather just be ok with everything I want to be high all the time and ok with everything. Ok, can you get that and then one day, they're gonna get what you feel like when you're on ecstasy, that's gonna be big Keep it all day, just beyond see all day enjoying the world. Wow I've never seen this guy. This color blue are going to have to have those. Now they don't. Let you genuinely have those drugs, because when, if you're as high as you aren't ecstasy or as high as you are in pot- and then you start figuring out, then you start unwinding that relationship and becoming less dependent on.

Could yeah. I mean even just a shift in the levels of things and the approach to things gives you. Oh, this is a new consciousness space here, I'm here for whether it's a brief moment or a long drawn out crazy trip right anyway, that's different than the sort sort of palliative care of of you know of pharmaceuticals, sure yeah yeah that dad does the exact. Opposite is true the ones that are available, that you could buy in a regular basis for the ones that bring you closer to the hive, drone exactly like slow, your own drug yeah. Just to let you accept more and take more. Even you know caffeine and alcohol in our search. You know easier, then, to tolerate the one. It's interesting that sort of this plane both sides of that of the field there is, after all I mean because they do use it to control little kids. You had a routes like Ritalin. It's one of these at t drugs that keeps us kids from you know, acting out of a different class, but also the chemical just taking it for a you, know the right, the right or work or to get that kind. Canada,

Thank you for it right. I've never with it, but the people that I know that have said it does add the kind of campers creativity right. I guess I guess it's more for a smoke a speedy, yet cramming for a test. Yeah yeah you're, getting work done, organizing, like my friend Robert Schimmel, rest, his soul. He he accidentally took it once and he had heart issues. It was kind of crazy story. He he picked up the wrong Peligro someone else's prescription and in and took an adder all the calls doctors like what, in my in trouble, my ski I'm scared out of his heart condition. The guys like you're gonna, be fine yeah, we find you skinny gonna, be you're, going be doing a lot of things over the next few hours. Just that so he takes any said. He starts fucking organizing his office and he sat down in front of his notes and he said I got more work done never gotten before, but well. Yes, that's why they call it speed right, but

it's a great, it's a price yeah, it's the ultimate industrial age, drug. I guess because it it makes you more more productive, more efficient. I have a few friends of an issue with. It is several you know, and a good friend, very smart guy who just went just got off of it, and you know he. We went crazy with it. Several months and he was a starting up a business and working the a tech company and a lot of hours, and it It took a little adderall help along the way, and next thing you know he knew that roller yeah yeah. They do say this to sort of, I think speed. Long term speed uses the closest they can model schizophrenia with drugs, and you know if you've been on speed. Freak for a really long time who you get way closer than with any you know, psychedelic or something yeah I told bull and it just seems like it's ready allies. Your system, yeah, Lindsay Lohan's plea deal one string attached. I want my adderall is a TMZ yeah, it seems she's. You know, she's a lesbian that like prison,

or that we have for the next. Whatever sixteen ninety days is she's trying to get a plea deal, so she can, after all, and wait a minute they're putting her in jail again yeah. What for this time? I think it was for hit and run back in two thousand ten or something like that. I can't remember I've been its. Where there's another weird aspect of our new society that children become famous. You know what that back back Shirley Temple days the inventor yeah. There was a group of us yeah yeah who would have ever thought that you would get a person like a Lindsay. Lo Han, we raise them from the time, their child and they never know anonymity and just Is this long to escape everyday longing to get fucked up and just drift away in a drunken stupor and not have to think about it? Yeah and they can't leave it is a thing. Is there also has to do tat.

And you leave it, it's almost worse to Vienna has been then to be and never was, never was used. First walked on the street. You never go all over that loser. He was never fans he just because there's a guy, so I tell you that there's it reminds you do. Is this moment that I still don't know exactly how I feel about it when they did the they did. The Brady Bunch Reunion, like ten years after the show, whatever twenty years and Jan didn't show up, they had a different girl for Jan and ass, I could kill you, you go girl, in other words, she broke free, she went, will move diet and others. She probably Eve Blanche, probably got in all this crap for not going in a lot of people, probably thought or because he's probably to screw up or some problem whatever and I'm like. No, you know you when you went into the future, you know, and you are not going to- let that just you know, define you no matter what yeah or she wanted money they they would wouldn't ever Georgiana. Who who knows

I know that media is good for projecting, there's something very sad about people that live completely in the past, like if you were on a show in the nineteen seventies and you're still going to those autograph signing things- and I heard I heard is- was Barbara Eden on the radio. You know I dream of Jeannie yeah and I was thinking man it's one of those one of those things or Barbara Eden also was in the time where you didn't make money like you, didn't get that residual the time people are still selling I dream of Jeannie what do I get expels yeah, but no needed shooting get single slice back in those Gilligan's island days. Those guys didn't make any money they they got over millions Island days is, did you know back

back in the day, they never knew about like syndication, they didn't have any idea. Things are going to be worth so much money and then, in a digital form, forever yeah, it's pretty Fuct up dude. I was supposed to be at my next thing by now. Whoops, it's like five hundred and thirteen. How long is or is this I guess a lot of the early, we'll just go just go. We go down to the whole thing: yeah we never go for more than three hours. You have to leaves as are supposed to go. Are you going next? What is it? I mean I've already missed thirteen minutes of it. Now I can answer these apologized yeah Jason Calacanis. He does this conference called launch. What is, and it's like Silicon Valley, on ship Mary. What's gonna happen next and technology so is allowed in her view or yet hog count had then another pod cast Noah Video POD cast. While this is too but that's like only likes, you click on the thing for a digital theorists lifted out.

It numbers my and thank you. Then Richard Mesker he does admits dangerous, dangerous minds website, really line on how to encourage- and we would like it you'd like me to understand these local does a great he's. Do this info invented the king at all website? Oh, he did ok, we'll mad mad stags to pay out he's Anderson from yeah. That's all. I know him from. All right, so you got to get the fuck out of here I do do this has been an awesome conversation, really fun yeah, it's great to meet you great to meet you too. Thank you very much for coming on and people. Please go pick up his book. It's called future share our present shock excuse me present shock. When everything happens now, right generally available now Is it available on audible darker, and they just did that the company that just emailed they want to do the quantity moving onto the audio, but yet as right and it's crazy, that's not needs to be done right, automatically go, go, go, get it

get on it, but you could get it right now on Amazon dot com, your website, Douglas Rushkoff, DOT, com, Russ, Gough, DOT, com, yeah thanks very much bye. Thank you a lot of fun to meet you. Thank to the sponsors. The podcast thanks, audible, dot com. If you go to audible, dotcom com, Slash Joe, you can get one free audio book and thirty three days of autumn, Service thanks also to stamps dot com, and if you click on the link on stamps dot, com and use the code e you were you, get a special offer, no risk trial, plus a hundred and ten dollar bonus offer, including a digital scale that you should not use for illegal purposes. Also to hover hover dot, com for what slash what Rogan it something or something I have too many fucking. I know you can make it all this shame yeah. I should, but I don't have control that shit. However, dot com for its

Rogan go there get ten percent off your domain name registrations and they give you a free shit like who is domain name privacy and there are and thanks also to dot com, go to on t, and if you use a code name Rogan, you save yourself, Ten percent off any of our awesome supplements our folks, that's it! For the week I got shit to do YO busy. I got laughing happening, and next week is going to be a little sketch because I'm on the road for most of the week, so we might bang out one only next week try to get through it. This is all temporary and we love the fuck out of dirty bitches. So we see soon Indianapolis this weekend, Saturday, night April, sixth, th being Indianapolis with Tony Hinchcliffe and If you seen my live the Tabernacle special available for five bucks on Joergen DOT net right now this set is, Whoever sent no there's nothing from that any of the show. So

to answer all these people's questions, if you should, go see. You verges bird dispersion, it's all new shit. I got an hour in twenty minutes now of all new shit. Now actually happier with it than my last bus. Also picked up because you have a thing that Kemper this week, we're gonna have some good podcast. So if you are a year like freaking out needing a podcast vega in July on Thursday excellence Reggie Watts, tonight, excellence, yeah, Penn, Jillette, awesome, that's great to go. Do it he's he in town? I yeah, I think, just season time, one day, knowing that, while yeah he's awesome he's a great talker to that guy will go on and on and on yeah. I think that you can turn next week to home and Cheech and together, interesting, alright, dougas Rush these gentlemen. Thank your buddy. Was he soon

yeah.