Hello, friends, how you doing New year's Eve come celebrate with us, the great and Ian Edwards will be with me at the Wiltern Theater for two shows for New year's Eve, in LOS Angeles. As long as it doesn't burn to the fucking ground, which it might do that anyway, go to Joe DOT net forward, Slash tour to check out all the tour dates. I'm going to a lot of different places. I'm going now Nashville New Orleans National can tell anybody about that. Yet whoops, probably going to Nashville, definitely go to New Orleans, definitely going to Orlando, definitely going to Miami going to a lot of places and all the dates, are available at Joerogan, dot, net, slash tour and we're adding a bunch of a second chose to a lot of these places as well. So, if they're sold out for the first show, hang in there. This episode, the podcast, is brought to you

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purchase of a website or domain that square space, dot com for a free trial, and then, when you ready to launch that bitch use the offer code Joe to save ten percent off your first purchase of a website or domain DOE Ramane no work, I don't have any more guests, I mean sponsors. I gotta big. Guess, though, just get this one quick, that's how I feel I fucking love this guy, I'm a big fan of his Music, it's just when you talk. When I talk to him, I kind of expected him to be this way like those dudes in women. That that are the real deal that may the real shit they're, just real artists and that's what this table. Tennis he's a real artist, and I personally get inspired by talking to people like this by listening to them talk by list into their work, his music, which is amazing, I'm a huge fan. So please welcome Chris Stapleton,

the Joe Rogan experience join my day, Joe Rogan Podcast, my name all day boom and we're live. What's up man how's it going pleasure to meet you meet you yeah man, fucking huge family yards. Well. Thank you very much. I listen to your last album. I've listened to that fucking thing. Hundreds of times I listen to it all the time when I'm headed to the comic store, puts me in a good mood. That's good! That's what music! So do I just stunned by the fact that for the longest time you were basically doing the song writing thing? you are doing a lot of that you're making your own music, but you were known more as a songwriter. Yeah! Well, you know you walk through the doors that are open yeah, so you do that Does it come up on you know, somewhere in the mid all that you find out what your thing is by God, damn Your voice is so good man I mean I want to fanboy out on you, but it's just such a classic like

male voice, you know singing those kind of songs. It's like I'm glad I had someone still doing it right, oh well, I don't I don't know you know. Thank you. Come out also say thank you. I don't want to say I'm doing it right and somebody else is doing it wrong. Well, for me doing what I'm doing what I do, you know what you do I like so I'm just happy to someone out there doing what you're doing and what what was going on with you right now. You got a new albums, but come on get around. This yeah came on December first and yeah we're proud of, and I hope people like is it on Itunes and all that jazz and give it everywhere. You get it where that music is available. As far as I know that that's what they tell me how The doors opened up for you now is everything feel like ha yeah. You're talking on everything is good, no yeah ever I mean beyond good, would be the understatement of the century. For, for you know just so many things that sound like fake, you know

fake life yeah. You know things that haven't phone calls you get people you meet, people get talk to and like what any of it. Just you know, get to go play this past year we played three shells with Tom, petty and the heartbreakers Amman must have been amazing. It was amazing. We played Wrigley Field with Tom, petty and heartbreak holy shit that basically feeds and it was just that I don't know it was a bunch, but it felt this is cool as it sounds like it should. You know man, Wrigley Field with Tom, petty and the heartbreakers. It doesn't get any quoted in that we have done you know, but maybe there maybe there's something else. So how long has success than happening like two years now do to the degree that it's happening right now? You know, probably, since

in two thousand fifteen couple couple years of good, strong, we're going on three of you know, didn't plan shows to more people than we knew ever came last ships. Yes, well, it's been a you know, a strange life altering thing when you hear, ladies and gentlemen, please welcome Chris Stapleton. What is that, like the freaking out, what we don't usually do in money announcements like that we just kind of walk out there and play that's the move. Yeah, we don't. We don't hype him up, you have too much we just kind of walk out there. Now that might be the way to do it. Well I mean everybody has their own thing, but I don't have like a hype guy doing that you need like that, sky, the hottest bad in the World I remember that when I was a kid I'm going to see kiss live a bunch of times you get so fucking pumped up

beginning 'cause. It would go the hottest baron in the world. I've never seen kiss life, but Jane Simmons did show up to a show of ours once he really was the weirdest thing ever he said we were in New York somewhere and he just happened to be in town replayed, the night before whenever we were playing and he showed up just to say hi and here's gene's, on Saturday before we go play our gig, I'm Playard, really yeah it's one of those one of those we're talking about. You ask that was one of them is like hi hi, Gene Simmons. In someones came to see me one time, a few years back at New year's eve at the improv him in its fan. Came to see me new year's eve, and I was fucking generally nervous the whole time we look at Jason's going yeah I read or not looking at him. You know one way or the other. You know it was so odd. Yeah is you know who I am fuck. Is that possible strange stuff man?

this is for a, but I love talking to people that are like a year two years in the situation. Room right now we're just kind of get and settled then do it where it still seems like fantasy land, I'm not sure that would ever not seem like fantasy land, because I spent enough years not in fantasy land, to realize that it's in fantasy land. You know, Maybe you could be like seventy one day on cocaine, fifteen ex wives, not hope that sounds horrible, but it seems like it happens. So to folks right well, it may be yeah, I'm going to hope. Not me not you too! I mean you seem like you could avoid. It seems, like a horror, horror existence. Well, this is a balancing act. I think with any great musician or any great artists really is I do the art and then now you're you're in the fame Olympics like you're. In this this weird thing, where you know you going to win grammys and you're going to have platinum,

they still have those anymore and you're going to be on these talk shows and people are going to it's a different animal now. Well, yeah! Yes, no! No up for me, I mean I, I still whatever we have is because we concentrate on the music and musically, and so try to do Other than that, you know I'll have fun with some of the stuff. You know go, get some to do a bit on the show or something I'm fine with that. That's cool, but it's still all this comes from music and it solved is always going to be the music and anything other than that. You know never and focus on trying to stay famous. Does that make sense? Yes, and I knew you were going to think like that yeah, I'm very happy said that way. I didn't, I don't make music for that reason in order to win awards or anything like that, I make it because I like it and hope that is

Well, it's very clear in your music itself. That does what you doing very clear. It's very clear that that's pure that it's just is what you do in your concentrating on that in it's not there's nothing disingenuous about it. There's nothing pumped up fake or well yeah yeah, not. You know yeah. I know right, that's the guy, but It's gotta, be a weird world mean the world of the music business is very, very strange world. I've talked to a lot of musicians, an you know navigating the world of commerce, music and uh. Again, I always just simplified down to let the musically and let that be always the focus it's for me. That makes it real easy to not make what I think decisions you would regret or or feel like weren't So as long as that's the focus, that's okay, you know. Ok, all that other stuff, just kind of becomes external noise that you know.

I doesn't matter you know right, it's not It's not a it's, not a hard thing to navigate in that round of me to you. Me now, but you must see it being a difficult thing for some folks. You know right. You know some people, but some people. You know care very much about. This is a this is whatever you're the first person to ever get me in dangerous waters. Like I'm talking about people, we do have to name names, so I'm alive, I I and I don't want to sound judgmental and what I'm saying my wife calls this pulling back the curtain. Too much. I don't pull back the curtain too much, but Well, if you want to pull it back. I know that you, like you, the guy that likes to pull back the curtain. I think it's good to look back there. Sometimes fucked the monsters are up here. Well, yeah I mean, I think I think if you roll,

into the music business or you know this is my experience. If you roll up into one to make records, I want to be in the music business and want to make a living playing music, having absolutely no opinion of what you want to do or who you are or how you do it, and you want everybody else to tell you how to do it and what to do and when and where, and why then yeah it can be a confusing thing, because there will be a lot of external opinion things that aren't yours. That will create. Someone that is not you that you will have to play for the rest, your life, so. Was that a lot of information on this right now so but as long as you're doing things that are, are you and and do come? You know from you and from who you are and what you like to do. That's never wrong decision, and sometimes that does. Add up to most times it doesn't add up to have some kind of commercial success, but

You know at least you can look at yourself in the mirror on it and not hate whatever it is. You have to latin player right like so, it can become like the artistic equivalent of like a soulless corporate job. We just kind of get sucked into something you want to do it for a living, maybe it make some money, but you never really get to be yourself because you're sort of program and into this thing that they've sort of manufactured- yes, yeah well or or you ignore some other passion or did you have under the guys of it, seeming risky or irresponsible and try to go? Do this thing it seems like in your mind, is the normal thing to do. Leguin Garth works put on that wig and pretended to be that other dude. Remember that part, Remember that thing to remember that I love that I love when someone goes like woah woah way off the reservation.

Well, I think I think the story wasn't that, and I don't know if this is true not that there was supposed to be like a movie yeah. They did a documentary, they did a behind the music. Is that was great guy, but I think I think I think the idea was that were supposed to be a movie air, send this gains and then then then like this was supposed to be like the soundtrack but I think they've the mistake. If there mistaken I'm not going to try to disk description, NASCAR career in the realm of making mistakes. Well, you know who am I to judge anybody? Well, hey I mean typically, somebody is successful. He is but I'd love, I got friends in low places. I love a lot of Garth music, I'm not a Garth Brooks hater I checked out it's a colossal fuck up that, I think, is hilarious and bar, so it was here. I'd pull that up and I would tell him I love them and, I would say, come on dude what the fuck were you smoking back then like who talked you into this will say. I think at the time that he did that.

He had to be into what in the world else. Can I do that? The only way I can become more successful is come someone else and make them successful. Yucky was so successful and still is in that space that he can't be any bigger than he is like Stephen King when he used to write his Richard Bachman. Remember that, no, I don't I you know, I'm not aware of this yeah. He wrote a bunch of books under a pseudonym because he was so gigantic that he decided to write some books under a different name. So the it's sort of appreciate the work for what it was instead of as a Stephen King book, I think, or not, maybe even as an exercise right well, I think very much. That's what it is that yeah, you know I'm I would look at the very most and why, of course, is kind of hard when your face, if they should put a mask on yes, something should get like Rick Baker to do Mapa, fake nose. You know completely, yeah. What made my got ugly weathered. Look in L Saddle Warren Dude put a seal with a non yeah yeah, but it was the

had a behind the music story. In his life store in the drugs and all the problems and the moodiness, and you know, but the music was always there and like this, It's a hilarious behind the behind the music you could watch it on Youtube. I highly recommend it. Okay, well, watch it on Youtube. I haven't seen that particular, but he's pulled himself out of that. He out of giant long hiatus and here's an interesting thing about Garth Brooks you can't get his shit on Itunes we have to get it on whatever his cd or whatever, but there's also his personally. He he had something called ghost tunes for a minute, I think was the name of it. There was like his own curated streaming service, where you stream only Garth Brooks Tunes, or something like that- I don't know. I remember something about that. I think is the idea is that he wants his albums played from there to his ghost tunes wants his albums played from the first song to the last. He doesn't want like a little boy.

It's an chances on, sell his songs individually. This. What I believe I've read that he like he thinks of his albums as likable and continuous work, and- and while I have you know by as much as anybody can understand that and want? You know very much people to listen to things, bodies work, but in the world we're living in you know, sometimes you gotta. Let people skip over some here. Let people do whatever they want with me. You did it yeah. I don't control peoples right thing, yeah and sometimes it's just a song that get some and that song, if you sell that song individually that'll get him and then maybe check. Alright is one hundred times what else Chris got to say yeah, maybe I don't know so. How did you get quote quote discovered as a singer? You started off as a songwriter, but you are always singing. I was always saying I was you know. I was in bluegrass bands in rock bands, always monitoring in a pick up truck or something like that. You know

how old are you I'm thirty nine how many years did you do that for a while, I moved in Nashville when I was twenty three First three years I was in town and I only wrote three times a day living eating sleeping breathing song writing from him trying to learn how to do that. You know in a way that kept me a job at a publishing So so, how does that work when you get signed by a publishing company or you get a job at a public company? Writing? Well, you you know it's your contract labor deal. Basically, it's like you have you signed a deal with you like year, they get an option or two to pick you back up for another couple of years. And what? If one of those songs hits You know those terms are worked out, whether you have what percentage of pub I think they have what percentage you have and they pay you a salary in exchange. For you know, is it lucrative it can be yeah it gamby If you, if you have a bunch of, songs on the radio.

And so for you is you again by doing this well, I know I made a very comfortable living up to the point you know what I have for about and with that Allow me to go out and play bluegrass for next to no money or no play rock and roll and and have fun doing it. Do. Not worry about that being how I'm making a living, but I've got to do it for the right reasons. And so in a lot of ways, the song writing thing: the commerce pay the art. I guess in in the which I am a firm believer and, and some people argue this is a conversation short on. I will have the the Commerce Street for the arts yeah, but but yes, so yeah, it's a yeah. It was it's a great thing. I'd still is that you know I still write. Songs for people are still right with people when they asked me to do that. For This is cool to get in somebody else's head. You know kind of sit, I'm with them and try to help them realize some vision of what it is. They want to do, and that's still one of my favorite things. Do not I'm just as

interested in that, as I am and doing my own thing a lot. So when you learn how to write music, did you when you would write you so do you sit down with an idea in mind with a guitar aren't you sit down with a pen and pad like how do you? How do you write songs? Well, if I run myself from somebody about yourself because a lot of different processes, it can be a you know. Whatever comes up that day for me generally, if I was going to say, hey I'm going to sit down and go the corner eye song. I'd have a guitar by probably have a legal pad and a pen, much like. We have sitting right here and I'd start strumming until that felt like something and how's that make me feel. I don't know how to keep chart melody, maybe and hopefully somewhere and humming. The melody of word would pop out that uh boys, I would make, would turn into a word and from there you can kind of grow this thing and to whatever it is supposed to be. Now that that's how I would do it if I was sitting around by myself now, there's other to

you and I could be having a conversation and you could say a phrase or a line or I could read a sign going down the road you know if you're a songwriter, you're, always right and sounds it's not like a choice that you have it's like a. An affliction that you have in some way, so you just kind of walking around unconsciously thanks will hit you. You know or moments will hit you or visual were hit you and, and that will spark something. So that's that's really they can come from anywhere and that's and that's the truth sounds a lot like writing. Comedy I'm sure I don't. I personally cannot rock comedy, but I'm I would think the The process is very much the same. You know you're trying to kind of take life distilled into something. You know that vote in our emotional vons. Do you sometimes sit down with a blank slate like you have no idea. What you want to talk about are right about

absolutely and that's and that's you know back to the publishing deal thing that was my job like we would set appointments. We come out at noon and I have an appointment with right abc you. Don't we sit down and try to come up with something wow. That's gotta be weird when you first work for someone for the first time, it's a lot of first dates. It's a long updates, but you know you find out pretty quickly how you can just kind of But when you write with writers who do that a lot, you can walk into a room and kind of for all the you know. Oh how you doing all that kind of is a good thing you just get down to. It needs to be like dive into it and start. Something hey. This is on my mind. What do you think of this now? That's this was you know, and you have to be not nice little bit to each other you have to, and even if you don't know each other well, you have to act like you do. In order to get to a spot

a song can can be something when do you ever write with no with no snow, guitar or no music ever to have absolutely there's a song that I wrote on the on the traveler record that we had a couple records back traveler, I wrote driving down the rd driving down through the desert on Interstate forty, wrote the whole thing driving and then I had to go figure out how to play it. Wow. So as you're driving. You did you record and I had yeah. I had a phone. This is just turn the Reporter on right, you know who well one of the phone and trying to you know my wife is a sleep in the seat next to him, trying not to wake my wife of being real quiet, oh wow, but yeah, and then you get it done you. Put away and listen to it later and see what happens So in all these years, how many songs you think you've written

an excess of a thousand, probably somewhere like that? Do you have maximum like laying around somewhere? I mean there uh catalog, that you know that the policy coming out right for you know this and they're all you know you know accounted for for the most part and- and I can kind of go back through and identify need to. Would you do that? Look for an album! Do you think this is what I've been doing, yeah Although you know this record we're putting out in the last record that we have out save for a few covers there, all songs that are decade old or something wow no kidding so might as well get stoned. How long is that one? Oh god, that song is probably one of to first things I wanna, probably twenty five, when I wrote that so yeah, it's thirteen years old. I like that love. Song. I love all your songs, man, I'm a big fan. Thank you! So when you are touring now,

Are you bringing your own opening acts with you you deciding who comes out with you yeah? Well, we when we try to pick people that we know and love and and we think minimum fit musically or we would with this one. Support right and you have a lot of great people out on the road with you. We have Brent Cobb and Margo Price and Anderson Easton Marty Stuart. You know there's a lot of people that we love. I did you every listen when Breakout ranch and he says no yeah, I'm a write this down afterwards, yeah you, you it's gimme, some sick, Justin, yeah, you'll, dig it it's! It's good stuff, well, birds of a feather flock together, and I know that you type dudes, probably only like other legit type of people, so I pro gets a good data well check. Yes, yeah, no mom! We we love, we love music and we like we like to support, there's something about the art form of music. That is always been very inspirational to me and I've always drawn up on it for, like. You know that,

where is Thompson quote about music being fuel ever seen? That quote, I'm not sure. If you put it's on my instagram page from pretty recently I was listening to Gary Clark Junior just a couple of days ago, Do that guy can play that guy's a freak, he was with honey, honey, best way yeah and they did a version of midnight rider here. Music is always been amount of energy. To me, question of fuel fuel people call it inspiration, but what they really mean is fuel. I've always needed fuel, serious consumer. On some nights. I still believe the car with the gas needle an empty can run about fifty more miles. If you have the write music very loud on the radio. I like it, I like music in the car myself

yeah it's so it's it's uniquely inspirational like very few things, and the art of music and music creation is such a. When it's done correctly, I should say, is uh it's a very pure art form in the sense that the people that are doing at are really like digging into their creative engines, and you know just getting the gears turning and pulling these things out and it represents like, however, much burden you have, in your personality in your life. You're like that, can either help you or hurt you in this process and some peoples, music, sort of represents the torment of their life and some peoples. Music, represents the purity of their vision, but it's all has different effect, and people in some sort of strange and bizarre way, yeah I like to say that you know the songs. I've spoken with everyone else on with this, but I like the songs

that allow you to take ownership of them and make them personal to you. That makes sense yeah and I and I like to listen, and I think that's probably what we all like about. Songs eventually is our ability to relate to them, but also, and they become like. I come back and rap song and I can place on a stage but it doesn't really mean anything until somebody listens to it and then there you know perception of what that song is about and relation to them comes back at us. You know on the stator the the comes lives in the world that way, and- and that's so cool me- that's the best that that's the thing that makes the songs complete. I don't doctor even done until somebody listens to it and attach is to it Ryan. That's that's the thing that I love so much about songs. John everybody's thing is different to right. It's like, if you can have

two songs that are the exact same song, but there sung by different people, and they have a completely different feeling well, sir, covers you listening covers just like whoa just is it just hits you in a totally different way, yeah, absolutely but, and then the other side of that is. You know two different people listen to the same version of a song and it means totally different things to yeah because they attached the pieces of their life to it in a way that is unique to them, and that's that's the coolest thing in the world. Yeah. It's interactive in some sort of a weird way right, yeah! Absolutely! If it's not it's nothing exists, What I mean by like sometimes people's music represents sort of the torments going on their own personal. What thinking specifically, I was Amy Winehouse right big, Amy, Winehouse, fan and there's something about such great fucking phenomenal as something not that rehab song, because she

every have song out when everyone knew she was a mess right in it. And then she still you know if they try to make my gold of Rehab Mara said no. She meant to sound happy yeah, she's like it. I'm writing this thing right into the beach right, I'm not stopping for the rocks right. I'm hitting the throttle, gonna see where this goes. It's tragic, but it yeah produce some some phenomenal music. No doubt gather, there's something to it. There was like almost fatalistic acceptance of our when fate or something like well, and we can listen to it in that active now she's with this anymore, but you know at the time it was a lot of teenage angst, so yeah almost celebratory yeah. It felt celebratory at the time on the other side of of of the tragedy of it, it has a little more weight. I think yeah yeah for sure, but it mean man if you stop and think about how many

tortured souls put out unbelievable music. Oh, I think it's uh, You know to some degree some of the greats. You know it's almost like a requirement. They are little bit out there, yeah you know, and and so on, which is. Is it's a horrible thing right with them? But it's a beautiful thing for the rest of us. You could listen to yeah right. Alright man, just the just to be an artist in any form right requi. There's all this vulnerability and just trying to trying to find whatever it is, when you're trying to create something where, where is that coming from the ether, the muses trying to just find that thing and then when you dealing with your own personal demons, like especially the deep drug demons, seem to produce some of the most insane music ever and I think Hendrix and Kurt Cobain ABS

and you keep going down that list for ever really yeah and then- and I have I have a song writer friend who, who is convinced that you can't really produce something that is, you know, really know where the less you have. Some in addition to, she said really yeah. But I don't know if that's true, but you know if you're the you're, so and that very thing you know when you look back at rock and roll and music in general, you know, there's a law, Heavy drugs and a lot of you know getting out there on the edge yeah has in fact produced some of the greatest music that we've heard, you also can hear it in the music, like Stevie Ray Vaughn's. A great example. You, like here here the game out there on the edge in the music. Absolutely you hear it with every ounce of everything. It's like. There's no safety net in that kind of music there's just. This is all wrong yep. Absolutely

it's kind of crazy life man. It's a crazy way to make a living. It is it. It must be super happy. I don't have any of those issues, I don't know, but I mean, but you don't have to have any those issues. I don't think you have to have an addiction issue to be great. I just think you just have to pursue it. Maybe maybe the addiction I mean, there's there can be healthy addictions I think everybody would look at it. I am most people that I meet that are successful in one way or another. They have at the very least kind of obsessive tendencies, about something bright weather and generally as some part of the work, but yeah it's of and and focus. I I see a lot of focus like this kind of super focused thing that when you, when you see certain people, you like that's why he can do that yeah. He or she can do that. They have this ability to focus yeah. There's a lot of

I've been amazed too, when someone can take an instrument and make that instrument sound, very specific to them like Gary Cartoon is another good example that, like. See if you can find that video that I put up on my Instagram way back when with honey, honey, honey, honey and Gary Clark Junior form. This really tiny place in downtown la maybe a year ago, and they did a midnight set on like a Wednesday night or some shit and Gary Clark is they are doing. The Allman brothers midnight rider like listen to us, and it's

That's that's him. You know I'm saying that. That's a perfect example! What I'm talking about like that is him. What Well, that is him, but it's also everybody this before him. You know that that he

probably the one guy that we have in modern times. That really can can carry that. George for the blues- and you know all those great guitar. That we don't have a lot of them left. You know He can do that and that's really kind of b dot B. King approached you know just playing some real. It's not, but many can he can do Hendrix and all you get be crazy and psychedelic to he can do any of that yeah and that's you know that when you, when you step on stage with him, you know it's, we we played nine by Ray, played a BB king tribute on the Grammys few years back and that was intimidating because in the end you know my excellent in her own way. You know like she has she has that thing just like he has where it is. It's just like those those people are there special

yeah yeah. I agree and there's some in about them that, like what Hunter was saying that their fuel like I saw, and I I ran home. I wrote I wrote for like three hours yeah so just was pumped up. I just I just felt like I got seen something you know like. I got a just a touch, some new dimension, Can you write this down to start writing down you gotta get on Freddie King Freddie, king? What kind of show is he he's blues, yeah, yeah yeah he's not with us anymore, but there's b, DOT B, King Albert King and Freddie King never heard of Freddy well, you probably have seen that show eastbound and down yeah theme song with the front of that yeah. That's right: oh ok, but there's there's love Freddie, King yeah, there's there's there's a wealth of fuel. If you,

yeah in that's, that's a pretty standard staple of sing for me. If I want to turn something on and but it make me feel right, Freddy Freddy I got a John Lee, hooker problem when I but thinking about blues I just Johnny look. I have so much John Lee Hooker on my phone. I have no room for other people. Are you got you got to get you got it so in spring training in alright, I guess of Freddie King there, but when I, when I tired, I don't feel like working out. I put boom boom boom on and woo. Here we go we're off to the races something about those types of songs, you know deep blues with just got this extra sp special soul to it. You know the stuff you're in. Sort of immersed in the feeling of those people. You know it's. It's heavy duty, stuff man,

music is heavy duty stuff man? How fortunate do you feel? the luckiest man in the world. Do you feel that way? Yeah? You know it's actually true I think the luckiest guy in the world, but I'll. Let you slide all right now, 'cause you're here. Well, I'm I'm top five on top five. I think we're all the lucky person in the world if you're actually found your thing that you like to do and you don't really work but you don't really work work. Well, I mean listen. I do a lot. We do a lot with yes twerk its work in the sense of it's time consuming. Yes, it requires effort and focus, but I yes but listen, there's nothing else. I would rather do for a living and- and I'm grateful and thankful everyday for because I love it,

do you do you listen to classical the classical music yeah? so when I was a kid I used to listen to more classical music than I do now, but you know I enjoy occasionally going to Stephanie, but I haven't gone in years, but I do like that music. It moves me in a different kind of way, then listen to fright, Kingwood, but alright, here's the big question jazz. I I do like jazz music, not necessarily like super experimental, jazz muse that gets way way out there, like acid jazz, she's, Allegra Cole, train yeah. Well, I just yeah, and once again I am not a in in no way am, am I forty on jazz, but if it's on, I will enjoy it because I enjoy as a musician I enjoy just like. I hear, enjoy great blues players, so many great musicians in jazz, like I had an opportunity, Dan Wilson

time to go, write some songs with the Preservation Hall, jazz band, and so we wrote some songs. I knew nothing about New Orleans jazz. What what? What But I went down New Orleans and I participated in this an and wrote the songs that now live in the jazz. So that that? Really it's thrilling to me to get that thing. I was telling you about what I get go hop into. Somebody else is space and see. If I'm helpful, you know, that's that's me, you know so now I have you know. I have that that feels like a to me. Like that's a feather in my cap. I got to go. Play with those guys and they're. So great everyone of am do. I have some friends that love that sort of collaboration thing to whether it's in music have a good buddy mine who writes a lot for my friend Tony Hinchcliffe, writes a lot for people for RD, Sts and punch up on, shows and things on those lines, but he relishes that opportunity. He likes

operating likes, helping people out on stuff yeah. Well, this gives you the opportunity to flex your mind in a way that, maybe you wouldn't yeah in your own space. You know right. What do you do when you're not doing music? That's all I do pretty much. I play music and uh and I you know I liked it. I have things I like to do I like to fish me too, but I don't get to do. That a whole lot bass fish. Would you do? I grew up on trout stream, where I'm not a flat rate in Kentucky, but not a fly fisherman but Spinning tackle yeah just been tackled by used to use a little ultra light. Spinning reading my summers were spent as a kid I'd, be in being the creative five. My friend, Steve Rinella was just talking to a famous writer recently in his last podcast. I don't remember the man's name, his famous in the the fishing writing world and he's a fly fisherman

and he's like he had a really interesting question. I said why is so much great great literature attached to fly fishing but not to spin tackle it's true. It's a good question and I think that's the that's the. Doing it. That's my perception of it and then people who are flat woman. I've seen these guys in action. You know, use a fly, rod, there's an art to it, but there's there's an art to use. All all of it, but the gas were from take a lot more pride in the art of it yeah and the and the and this and Please forgive me fisherman out there. If I'm, if I'm Miss representing anybody who likes to do either of these things, but my perception of it is, you know,

it's been a real. Let me if I was gonna catch fish right right. I'm not you know if it means I'm flipping it out there if it means I'm tossing it. If it means I'm Jack fishing with it the matter I I want to figure out a way to catch fish, the five for They like the process yeah. I started out with spinning rod, I actually started out with one Zebco push button, spin, caster, jammies and then and then I went to a baked casting reel and then for bass and then when I got into trout fishing, I eventually moved on to fly fishing and learn how to tie some flies and, if you're serious about some people talking about her now, it's been a long time now. When I fish I fish, maybe once a year like on vacation yeah, that's that's wrestling for me as I you know. You know, charter of God a boat, some yeah to go so far as

Easy is fine. Yeah, I've done it in Hawaii in Mexico, and the great thing is like say: if you stay in at a resort either like you could rent a boat they'll, take out you catch a tune or something like that, and then you cook it and eat it for lunch, and it's amazing. That's great yeah! That's about the extent of my fishing these days. My other outdoor activities are sort of overwhelmed by fishing time, but there's something about the people that get in a fly fishing that it's not just fishing. One of the weird things about fly. Fishing is a lot of them. Let the fish go, there's a lot catch and release going on with fly fishing, which yeah I mean I'm like that too. I mean I used. A lot of him. Go get that, but I'm a little I'm a little tormented on that. You put in a fucking hook through some things had and you gotta, let it go like uh All is not doing that. If you really love the fish, how 'bout just fish would know, look at all when they bite it. You know, you know you woulda had 'em, that's, probably fair, yeah, it's

show me the way to go. It's weird, that we would be it's this weird thing that we have in our head. We were try going to activate those reward systems that were there in place in order to keep ourselves fed right, like if there's a thing that happens when you catch a fish you've. Seen like I've. Seen with my little kids, daughters, fishing and when they catch it, fish, they have this look in the freezer haha! I got it. I got it. I got it. Yeah, like this is a super exciting when they pull it out of the boat and then the fact that they're going to get to eat it later. There's some weird primal dna thing that gets activated when catch something, and I think that's what the fly fishermen in the lead in the fish go we're trying to do the just little junkies for that that that feeling that feeling that DNA May activation, that reward word system thing and obviously it's difficult and obviously there's a lot of tremendous amount of skill and finesse involved and fly casting and roll casting trying to place. This

fly right in this little pool and drag it with the current and get that nasty trout to bite onto it, but you also want to own. It want to have them and let him go you don't want to like say I could've had you, but there's no hook on dark side of flatfish. Yeah you want to know you got it, you don't want to know he bit. You want to know you So no one goes fly fishing with no hook they go with a barbless hook and catch it and then the let it go, and this adds far is a barbless hook like ok. How would I put a barbes or through your fucking, face I should be good. That's not good! if you're trying to ruin fisherman fishing for all catch and release fisherman, I am I supported one hundred percent and I've done it. I'm a hypocrite. In that regard. I have done some catch and release, but I feel like there is a weirdness to it that it's this, why yeah you're, not eating it like why? I'm out you can just look at them now: yeah catch him catchment, I have a number.

But how are you going to look at a miss if you don't kill them in the water? Here's the thing a good percent I don't know what the number is, especially when you're like salmon fishing and using like heavy tackle a good percentage of your catching release into those fish are never going to make it glore barbed hooks, get him deep in the throat you pull him out. There bills are bleeding. I mean that's, that's that's a scenario that you don't like, yeah catching that since most fishermen, I think, would know that you can't turn that fish back loose, but you have to sometimes you do have to do something yeah, but you have to turn loose 'cause, it's the law as the regulations and you turn it loose and you watch it swim away. Look small farmers got about a forty percent chance, yeah, no everybody hates that yeah worst, but but they still want that feeling that so we the catching the fish things a weird feeling. Apparently that's that way with butterfly catchers too, because he

open Bing's used to be insectivores really yeah. I was listening to this lecture once by Terence Mckenna and he was talking about that Terrence counter great psychedelic author in and lecture it. He who was talking about how he was really into butterfly catching at one point in time and the uh thing is that it activates this very primal rewards system in your body the same way catching a fish. Would that it's like, because human beings used to be insect divorce. We used to eat a lot of insects so when you do you find some rare butterfly that even after for months and months and you have the opportunity to drop the net on that mother Fucker God? Oh my god, oh my god, get so excited about him. That's a weird song trophy hunting butterfly hunting too, because the year to do that. You could take that little fucker dry him out and put him on a wall somewhere and nobody thinks you're a barbarian.

Real racist. When it comes to what animals are allowed to be dead, you don't mean yeah yeah, pigs and cows, but more so bugs you know. Oh now I have nobody likes bugs. I can watch implies that I went to an ashram once and this lady, who is running the ash ram, had a can of raid. Give me about the ant problem that they have like hold up spray ants with poison and she's like yeah and I go see, kill the ants. I go that, contrary to what you're teaching, which is like sometimes you just things you have to do, because otherwise they ants will get in our food, and this is odd

you're in an odd crossroads here, lady yeah you're, a buddhist living in an ashram with a can of poison that use for living beings. You don't like being around you. I have nothing. I did that's fine, but if she was like she had like cats, she was killing with a baseball bat. Everybody would be mad. How should be in jail, yeah, weird right, yeah, weird rules, Sorry to take it down this world. No! No! No! This is very interesting to me. I didn't know that human beings, you should be insectivores so yeah. Apparently something new everyday. Well, that's one of the things that they talk about in terms of the future of protein. That inside provide very complex, complete proteins and they can provide it too large amounts of people fairly inexpensively and so cricket proteins. Very pop, your talent. You know this number of people, you could get protein from yeah. They have cricket bars and Shit cricket bar

yeah. They make bars at a crickets cricket protein bars and currently they taste pretty good daughter, eight into the we bought like on vacation somewhere, like those novelty sack of like barbecue crickets or something yeah. I want to try because my son was like, after he actually got on the pie, packaging about that, but I'll try she hated Emma and then she was like good they're, not bad. What is a cricket? Milkshake? Hey Yes, that is that pre made there's cricket, bars from the powder. I think it. You look more palatable if they didn't have a picture of a cricket like crawling out of it. Yeah hide that shit, so there's there's the cricket protein powder. That's they cook. The cricket grind those up internet protein powder, and it's apparently has come. Amino acid profile, it's easy to digest and it doesn't make people feel bad. Like look at that. Look at the grams of protein per

one hundred gallons of water, how much you can get for a cow. You only Six grams of protein for one hundred grams of water or one hundred gallons of water, but for crickets you get seventy one grams of protein for the same amount of water, it's more than ten times the amount of protein. So you could end. I think it has near the impact on the environment in terms of like raising them. They don't have a lot of the waste products in in the the the issues at Cal's house methane. I smiles I this is. This is amazing. No, it's all good. I'm constantly thinking about eating crickets, I'm thinking about switching I've had cricket before man. I was in Mexico and they cook them and left him in the room. And in we stayed at a hotel. That is a little snack little snack thing. It was a little so they were like almost like a soy sauce based or some sort of assault based on chips or something yeah, and they were they were fried and you

just crunchem, and I was like okay. These are actually pretty good. I like, is there essentially related, but a lot of bugs are related to shellfish. Where is like, we found on fear after that, if you're allergic to shrimp you're also, to roaches, really yeah, we for run it out, because we made a duty roaches and he started, having an allergy reaction. We had to get him a shot of adrenaline and taken to the hospital. That's awful yeah. It was a bad day, yeah. You, I guess your throat closes up on you and you start. You know lot of inflammation. You start weizen, yeah yeah, but crickets, good protein. Your written yeah, never read anything. Where do you like a straight laced? Either? I'm pretty yeah, I'm pretty straight while game of my that was a bird hunter and a rabbit hunter grown up, but I've never never loved, no, no

So about how it's cooked really right, yeah- and I don't know if we ever got that down at my house- so yeah- it's tricky like I think- around a real wild game. Shaft like there's a guy named Hank Shaw who's been on his podcast before who is a hunter? Who is also like a real extraordinary? definitely makes his amazing dishes with wild game and he's those guys like you know, you think it's bad 'cause you have cooked it right. Let me yeah, I think, there's a lost art to some of it or a lesser known art. Maybe where are you living right? Now, man? I live s of Nashville TN, so we we flew into held today and you see like literally it's on fire for people. Listening at this point in time. This is one of the worst fires in the history of LOS Angeles, pretty scary, yeah 'cause, it's what's called a dry hurricane, meaning Is hurricane force winds, but there's no rain and the fires are going fucking crazy. Fifty thousand acres down and in a day is nothing right. Now, yeah! It's well! We've been here a few days, and we were

we got in two three days ago and we've been doing some other things, tv things or whatever. But what kind of that on? The news is not a not a fun thing to watch and I'm I'm so heartbroken for everybody lives in homes and it's it's. It's pretty tragic, awful thing I have to watch yeah. It certainly is you know it's the side effect of living in a place that does nominee whether you know there. You go everything dries out. It's so rarely rains here. You know when you get like these crazy wins the Santa ANA wins. It happen every year. Just this. Is it ordinary? The winds here and just perfect time for fire Thomas? So somebody kicking these things up for. What's what's the deal? No one knows you know when that could be our soon could be. You know feels like that could be looked, there's some sick out there and they know that the wind is a bad thing for fire and then also the fire shows up it's entirely. Possible that out of twenty million people, there's one or two people that are their fucking mind

What you were thinking, I don't know. I just watch it and just like I mean the, how did the fire spontaneously start? You know that. Yeah an these, I don't know it seems well you're. Probably right I mean that's. One of the suspicions is that it's uh Wasn't related or this several fire One of them was and there's so many go on at this point, I'm just somebody running around like they can. What that's the thing yeah they happened simultaneously. All during same crazy conditions and they happen like way far apart from each other, so you talked to firefighters about it and then like there's a lot of times, we don't know, but there's a lot of times has some serious suspicions, and you know it's just unfortunately you have to think about that. I mean think about all these human beings and there's one two or how or whatever the number is there so tortured, and so, and in pain and so fucked up

the wires are sort of wrong yeah. I don't get it now. I don't get it and I hope that's not. The case, but I but I watch all these guys on the news you know upon Reuss, trying to save their property or you know, firefighters, button, Sheldon, hardware, gassed fly, helicopters, double water in zero visibility conditions and that's just It's awful it is awful! You know the round this time of year. You really appreciate firefighters, absolutely yeah and I think a lot of people take them for granted most of the time until you need them. They like superheroes that only get credit when they do some shit right. You know and when they do do some shit, you realize like, oh without them like I talked to a firefighter once it freaked me the fuck. He saying it's just a of time to one day with the right winds, there's a fire that burns all the way to the ocean. Just goes right through la and there's nothing. We can do about it, and I was like what he's like

it's a matter of time. He goes. Everybody thinks it it's just a man catching the right fire and then you realize today. Like he's right, I go yeah bellairs on fire yeah. Well, the rich people, it that's on fire yeah! No, it's up like sun roof. It's like live on the news we wash in the hotel room. I was just your goal: yeah we I mean we changed our route to get over here today, just to get it because, there's road closures and right like that, you know it takes more time. I think we gave ourselves like an hour an hour and twenty minutes I don't have to get in today. So what else you got going on right now, when did a few tv

things in, but we're kind of wanted down for the year and then we'll get back up the end of January to the get the Grammys in January. I guess and then kind of slowly get back into it, but I watch program twin so we're trying to go on to graduation. Thank you, you know have and cheap tore of insects remain pretty much all the time, so we're trying to figure out the new reality. Of that you know. Brian. We have two kids out with us, but now we're going to four. So how old your kids there are eight and seven, so you bring a tutor on the road with you. How do you do that? My mother in law is a retired second grade school teachers convenient so so we homeschool their children on the road, but they get. You know when they studied the Boston Tea Party. They get to go, look at all the stuff in boss. You know now you know that it's a it's a it's a different kind of education, but it there were things like that kind. Livery for them a little bit more than than what I got growing up and hopefully someday they will appreciate that I'm sure they will. I mean

be interesting to them to to see their dad go from being singer. Songwriter tell a sudden being a celebrity singer. How they realize that? I don't know, I think to them. They're young enough, and you know that just seems like that's yeah mom died after listening to show. You know it's just what they do one of your mom and dad going to go saying you know my mom makes houses yeah you. Don't she didn't say they? Don't they don't have real almost was that they don't have. Nothing else to compare it. That's one to look for kind of what life is.

When you toured the. How long do you go? What how much of a stretch, what we very rarely try to? I mean we try to be with him wars as much as we can and do you know Thursday Friday Saturday runs, but you knows something logistically that doesn't make any sense. If you can run across Canada or you were, were you know, basin nationals of one run the West Coast were out here for couple weeks or something like that, but never longer than that, you know we never trust a out we're not very rock and roll about it. We don't live out out there and don't want to so I love play, shows, there's a limit on how many I can sing and in a week it's three is the limit. So we we stuck with that and and try to make that have as much Kinda home Tom and so all the guys in the band crew- and you know everybody's got kids and families and things and that's all it's a hard. It's a hard will make a eleven if, if you're always calm like yeah, like months and months and months calmly,

that's a lot of that's that's the rock and roll way of doing things. A lot yeah, I know start allowed to do that for like that for a while, he didn't have to chose to chose to yeah. I had to convince him with that, but yet to convey so that that he didn't have to yeah. I don't know he only. He convinces himself anything I'm I'm going to say that you know what you're saying, but you but influenced him. Well, I'm not I'm not even going to say influenced in, but I would tell you jested. I would tell him, then you don't have to. Why? Are you doing this, so he felt, like I think all his years of work and regular jobs. You know working on a railroad and doing all the shit that he had to do when success came. He was like Jesus Christ of keep this fire going absolutely well and the king, let kindle- and you know what you have- that's wood. Absolutely you have this moment. You know when you have a little so going on you're like well, I got a you know, make a one sunshine again understand that yeah whole heartedly, but you know we're all human beings and we all have limits

yeah. Do you have a limit of the amount of days that you get saying in a week? Yeah three, that's it in your voice- starts, gets trained. Yeah! That's I mean that's. I pretty hard to you know so. Yes, and I have you know, conversations with other singers when I run into is how many shows can you play in a week and some guys it's too some day, some guys, it's like I can place every day the week while and that, but that's not me, three three shows is kind do you ever have a greedy make money bags agent, it's like listen Chris for sure was wait. Twenty five percent warm welcome just one more show at work with big money bags. Christopher two shows a night, not a big deal certain. Certainly you know certainly everybody. You know everybody wants

you work with and that's our job is to try to maximize what what you're able to do, monetarily and- and you know he is sometimes you have- sorry, I can't do this ultimately you're not physically, not yet not physically possible, and then they have the deal within those parameters and we figured out how to maximize that does every country music singer have to live around Nashville that like requisite uhm, I don't. It seems like that find collection of you fuckers living this one spot. Well I mean that is the kind of the hub for after living in LA or New York, whatever whatever the. If you want to. If you want to be a certain industry, it helps, you know, must win, it must be present and you know yeah to some degree. You know we feel that that place has a certain enerji to it as well, though it does happen to do it and it has had an energy to it and it's a very changing enerji at the moment,

I don't live in Nashville proper anymore, but I did for years, but it's a different place. You know- and it's not just a music place, but there's so much, else, going on. There's nineteen or twenty cranes building condos downtown. What's going on in Nashville it just I don't know, there's a everybody wants to buy a condo. I guess I don't know, I don't understand it, but yeah there's an in flux of people who sudden think it's a good idea to move in Nashville yeah. Well, that's what I had heard. I heard that it's uh, it's almost unlike LA ified, a little bit I don't know what that means, but if that, if that means that there's a lot of condo, to see the added chicks with lips like this man. I really duck lips I'll, be honest, I don't I don't I don't run around and uh I go into Nashville when I have to go into Nashville for certain for supplies

supplies and then I park myself in the out in the country. That's where you live live. That's nice, gotta spread yeah. We have a little bit of land and why live animals? Oh yeah, no, those bobcats and turkeys, and oh that's, nice! Dear you name it. So what I've heard about Nashville is at Nashville started out as sort of this pure sort of music environment and then overtime, it became a money grab than people realize that it's a imu the environment and they said how do we capitalize on this, and then people said? Oh, I heard this is a music environment going to move there, and then it became like a place to be need to be seen and that it's still got the music there, but it's also like weirdly compromised, so it makes sense no more than anywhere else. I mean, I, I think said human nature. Man, I don't know, I don't want to say,

is sounds very like anti, you know any any corporate involvement of anything to says it's been. Tainted or it's all a money grab or something I don't think it's all. I know it's definitely not saying that. I love Nashville by the way. Ok! Well! No, I do too, but I'm I'm just trying to wrap my head around the related opinion of was that you, no, no, no, this other people that I know people that have lived there and then move back, got you yeah. I just peep they had this romantic notion. If I want to go there- and this is like sort of countryish city where everybody's soulful they're all singing songs, and it's just go down and see all these amateur band, or these bands are just starting out and they're amazing yeah. I don't think that that's really that's kind of Mayberry version of of of what

nationalism at that's, Narnia, yeah! That's that's that. I think that some kind of unicorn that you're inventing well, I think that that's an intelligent going to you like that right. It's like I don't know. I don't know the equipment would be but film like you move to some island somewhere and everybody walked around and has yachts and just direct marketing all day or whatever you know. That's just like. This like places that you're you supposed to go to like when I was in Boston when I first started out doing stand up. I had heard about the comedy store that was like the mecca right you had to get to. The comedy store in Hollywood is like spoken with honest, Jones and everybody sort of came to that place, as I could drew everybody in from across the country and from my sounds like honey, honey and other people that I know that lived in Nashville for a while that was, Nashville is kind of that to them. It's like what it was like. This kind of place we had seen and heard so much amazing music is come out of that part of the world, and it's so music centered.

You know, I mean it's a different vibe 'cause. It's a very art, it's a very artistic city and that's, but but there's there's also a there's a side to it now and it's been the last sorry Nashville. If you feel like I'm talking about you, but it's there's a thing now where you go downtown and this more like you're going to a giant bachelorette party or something it's just like everybody's. I don't know just looking to get drink their face off and and listen to bad covers of- and I'm saying like I'm sorry, I need to apologize. No, it's you're being honest, When is great for the city in a lot of ways to rhythm, wise and monetarily and all those things, but it also changes that whatever so oceans of that romantic thing that you're talking about those things still exist, but there they have to be like a lot of things that have sold

I need to be sought out right. The difference between a real old school barbecue, joint and Tgi Friday's Tgi Friday know what you mean. I know what you mean to. I see you're laughing at me like backpedaling, although no, no, no, no, no, don't force you into this. I mean to I just we're just I'm just talking about my point about all of it really is. The idea of artistic integrity is leading thing in in the sacred thing, in a critical thing, for a guy like you to create the kind music that you make and I'm always interested like how someone cultivates that how someone protects that 'cause? I think it's it's. What goes away it's when things go off the rails, it's usually the focus away from the creative aspect of it, the art that making the thing that you loved in the beginning. When you got into this thing, you know, and sometimes people get it happens comedians in a big way, they good movies and

famous and then they believe their own bullshit. Then they put out the specials that are terrible. It's it's real, easy fall into sure and we uh. You know, but there's also, you know, there's a there's a side of that. I I would argue that that is what's in their heart at that moment, and that's just as real as anything else, you know, but argue this they're in the wrong environment well has been surrounded by the wrong people with the wrong influences and they have the wrong focus. Okay, yeah! I'm not a go with that. If you, if but. Everybody is going to evolve in one way or another yeah for better or worse an and everybody is going to have these high points and low points of where they really were in the zone. So to week, not in the zone yeah creatively. I think that that is that's just life, but

one for me, if there's a way to try to prove curve, some notion of integrity is just the thing I sent earlier. It's just like. If you let it the other stuff, just put the blinders on and go all right here I am here are the guys and I play music with and girls. We're going to sit in a room where we going to do this other stuff existed and that's and that's that's the way you keep it, which should be right as you keep it right in the moment and right in the room and don't let some of some notion of of trying to outdo yourself for out, sell yourself, or you know, make I need another. Guy underwear have a number one over top of the other guy or you know, cuz all that kind of stuff manufactured to like

number. One. Seven right doesn't have numbers that, and some of them are so tainted by people just doing things that that for menu facture that number that they want to have that it doesn't it's not even a real thing at that point right well. I always felt weird about content. Some things that in any sort of like ranking system, involves art your way anti any kind of award well, thing to like the Oscars in the Grammys, and all that kind of like that, like I don't give a who you think is great, I don't think I don't care? Who you think is the great at number one like the number? Here's and the winner is open the envelope. Oh, my God is going to get it. The work is the work. The work is done, like it's. If it's apocalypse now is the Falcon movie. It doesn't matter what you give him ago statue or not like. What's the work, the work is great for

to win thing or not win a thing. You know other things that have one. You can tell that the wind is tainted by the political climate, the people, or like leaning, Tord, something that socially aware and console somebody made a movie with lesbians and if the planet from you know, I mean it's like that kind of shit becomes like transparent and obvious, and you can do that in rig the system and win an award. I think that awards for art or goofy for comedy or super every comedy competition. I've ever seen their super goofy. That's just missing the whole idea of the thing. The whole idea of the thing is supposed to be: the art is not supposed to be trying to in award no, it's not an, and but you know, if you win an award out of that, and it allows you to make more art- and it makes me pay attention to the are so so be it now, it's sort of a bastardization. It's always felt like about that. There was a show called last comic standing and

good thing about. It was that it got a lot of comics that people hadn't heard open. They put him on television and help their career, but the bad thing was that they're doing like uh contacts and like who is the audience platform. Or do you want MIKE yay? What about Debbie mean it's an inch? That's fucking, weird! It's weird Yes, there's not as many more a lot of singing right. I'm saying people like to watch those shows yeah, because people also like the idea that the one thing one minute an one moment on television can make you some other totally different person. Love that, like that's, why Susan Boyle was so famous right. We saw this woman, everybody doubting her. She goes out there and she's got pipes and she belts that song out and see Simon, who is just a douche bag, is like home holy shit. She's, amazing, like you, could see it like you undeniable right now,

Yes, those are good moments. Those are the best moments. The other good moments are like when they have american Idol and they have those people that have no business being there and they play their audit. Things to moment for the wrong reasons: right. Yes, but if you're watching that you're watching for that too, right. Is there a good show to introduce people to country music? Like you know these to have shows where people could you know yeah we used to have you know like Nashville now and things that they like. I don't think that really exists anymore, like like uh specific show yeah? I don't think we really have that anymore, like a variety show in Like Johnny Cash or an English yeah. Now I don't have that anymore and I don't know how much people want that any you know, otherwise it might might exist, but all man, I really doesn't want to do it. You know, maybe maybe they're, not the right person to do it. I don't know

well, I just think someone needs to make it uh. I feel like there's so much what you telling me about all these artists. I gotta go look into and I'm sure there's a bunch that are coming up that are probably equally talented and you know. Maybe they just need and uh fortunati like that, like something like along those lines, some sort of a show, a variety show, are really talented. People can come and show their songs. Well, the closest thing to that right now have you seen this MIKE Judge show the the guy from getting the hill yeah yeah, it's even button tales from the tour bus or something now. What is that talks all his old school like taxes, country x or like all these folklore of country, music, and these and it doesn't interview, style and they're. All telling stories play this trailer file off MIKE Judge, Hale mailing with hand record Joyce Jones me at thirty six brand new cars

ever had a horn sound like a dying bowl while Terry Legal and she bought a machine gun and shot up a demo landed next door, fifty thousand dollars with false teeth. I knew his face in his shin and I didn't want to be in the land far so they would tell stories and then they animate them yeah, but all these guys that you see animated. These are the real guys that lived a lot of these things. I'm telling these stories this- is these are not made up characters or any anyway and I know some of the guys that wind up being animated on these things- and I have for years, said you know if even half of the folks or exists in country music could be told it would be the be the biggest thing in the world. You know and that's why he's doing right now with that show and he's doing an excellent job, and it's really- Maybe it's not as entertaining to other people. I don't know, but for me as a musician, no one, no one! Some!

folklore and knowing how many great characters and storytellers exists in country music and have existed. It's so refreshing to see these guys get stories told about him. That's awesome, I didn't even know MIKE Judge is a country music fan. I didn't either, but I gotta tell you he's knocking it out of the park as far as I'm concerned with this. This tv show hope it does really. Well, I'm so glad you brought this up yeah It's it's awesome and I don't say about much. I don't really like get super pumped up about do you watch other shit? yeah. You know I like a lot of I like amusement pretty obvious things game of thrones and walking dead. I'm ended that I, like I like kind of fiction based things, and you know I like, but I like things that are done well whatever it is, and I think both of those are done well so

you binge watch tv shows absolutely that's only way. I can watch tv show half the time. I'm doing something went to act, comes on right right right. So when you look at yourself right Now- and you look at all this cool shit that you're doing, do you hope to just keep doing it this way, do you have some grand plans in a grand plan that amount of head collect years ago? So I'm I'm hopeful that we get to continue to do some cool things and and have fun doing it and I'm you know, I'm I'm I'm at that age, where you know I'm just old enough not to be bored stupid with what we're doing, right and and and hopefully young enough to really get to keep doing it for a little while and and are you know

I don't know man, I I'm grateful for anything that we've gotten to do and we'll get to do it in the future and- and hopefully the next few years will just be continuation of that. That's all you can ask for I mean if you're what what you're doing now is so awesome and so much fun. Imagine if I, if I could like write a script for how you know this is how the I want my career of putting records out to go. I couldn't I couldn't write any better for me. You know, and I get to do. I have freedom to do basically whatever I want, and play. However, I want, and about whatever I want and that's is it's the greatest thing in the world. Do you get young guys coming up to young girls coming up to you that halved dreams of being a singer? Songwriter sure ask you for advice. Yeah, my advice is always just be nice. You know be,

might be nice, yeah really yeah. Well, I think, that's, I think, that's always easier than Meghan too many enemies for you know and it enters the room. You know you never really have people that don't believe in what you do or think. Let's just wrap. That's all that subjective thing. Of course, yeah yeah I've been nice is important, but also being you be you and be nice, you know, and if you do those two things I think that's the best recipe to hopefully free for you to put yourself the position to get lucky. Is this something that you had to figure out yourself? I mean, but you know when you start, and I don't know how it works. From your in what you do when you start and when you get your first little, Well, I get a publishing deal and you get to be around some of what

History is and then you slowly but surely get to meet people who are successful in different facets of it, and I think what I find is the people that uh that I gravitate towards and that I really respect and and look at it hey. I like that, would be nice. You know they're very nice, you know caring giving individuals who who support younger artists- and they are you know the do nice things for the community and the do nothing for people in the world and they make music. That's in the heart and those are the those are the things that I I think are are good to aspire to as musician and those are the things I respect. I respect I respect that yeah a whole lot, not just talented, but nice yeah yeah. Now what about like work ethic and did you have people ask questions about like how do you,

motivate yourself or how do you? How do you sit down and write? How do you like? What's your process you do like? my advice is yeah, I say right, you know right as much as you can with as many people as you can find. You know what they're doing. That's how you learn how to write songs, but you know I'll also said you said was some other friend who said you know you can't you can't learn how to be a songwriter. You can learn how to write better songs more often Forgive me. This is a wrong analogy, but I don't You can really learn how to be funny M l. If you mean I used to think that I used to think that, because they think wow you the funny or not funny, and then I realize like oh some people need to learn how to be comfortable enough to be funny yeah I've met people that sucked and then not good real, like really good at that, well, I'm giving the wrong advice then, because I personally far- and I personally think like

has to be an eight and then you have to learn how to sharpen that too little bit I think whoever you are can change and I think, if you are in a position where you are incapable writing songs or incapable being funny or incapable writing books are doing paintings whatever it is. It's because whoever you are right now, but that doesn't mean that whoever you are right now is we're going to be five years from now or whatever. I think. If you can go through and personal growth and enough introspective thinking and objective, realization of your environment and then the way you interface with people slowly, but really changes and evolves, and matures your art will your your expression. Well, because you're not who you were you know you're, not who you were five years ago. You know who you were ten years ago: ok, that's my thought- I mean it- doesn't I don't think it works without everybody. There's some people that aren't fucking funny, don't get me wrong, but I used to think that there was just if you suck in the beginning, you're going to suck then I met some people. There has to be some spark,

spark or drive yeah. This is you know like yeah. I think, if would you say that of the person that was trying to be funny was not funny at first, they at least knew that they weren't funny and had to get better at now. All no sometimes they think they're funny, and then they become funny until so it's I used to think that there was much more of a clear defined pattern, then I think now think. Cluelessness is the enemy of any real. The thing that you're going to make it's going to have a real impact on people. If you're, if you're clueless, have you I don't see how people perceive you if you do aware of how their taking you in when you're communicating with them. Your art is going to suck Like you, don't have a connection with them, you know have a connection with people. You know we're connection with yourself. I think

is there some sort of a house, solitary thing that you do like, maybe maybe sculpting or painting, or give me a mad man, is like totally like in your own world in Kerr. Create some crazy art form that someone can come along and look at and go wow, but anything we are interacting with people. I think there's a big part that interaction is the way you look through other people's eyes and the way they take in what you're saying not just what you want to get out, but also you are recognition, some so whether prefer Lee or whether it's obviously the Europe you're re illustration of how they are perceiving your thoughts and ideas and what vehicle you're delivering these ideas in as it clunky and too loud. Or do you have the same thought and make it smooth and common sinking into people with the right words in the right cadence in the right? You can have same ideas, but they just they need a better vehicle to get through, and I think cluelessness prevents you from object,

really analyzing your own work, yeah self awareness is really important, part and brutal. Busty, you know with yourself yeah Ok I'll go with that. I mean you must have that with songs right, like you have songs where you right and then you go back and what the fuck is. This? Absolutely absolutely you know, but you also you have songs where every day you write a song and you get done, you don't get to end of the day without thinking that you did something good right. It's only on you know you got to get away from it bet and then, like re, listen to it or re, examine and go or hey right. You know that, so I don't think I think it it's easy. To feel like you're, a genius at the moment right as a songwriter, specially got a couple of drinks, yeah, absolutely

do you like how much which of the stuff that you actually right becomes. A song that you publish like like it was, if you're writing, how many of the the days spent. Do you actually come out to be like a full song really, but you can also not right this time in three hours, right yeah. If I don't want to us and there's like a sketch, no, no! No! No. I mean like how much of it like really really connects with you. I'm sure you must be. Sometimes you sit down and in on the first draft you just fucking nail it right, He had an install. We actually every time. No, but I'm just trying to see if there's parallels between caught his comedy is probably ten to one hundred and ten thanks. Better, bullshit and something in might be something there. I think I think, if you're doing, if you're doing

If you're doing ten percent of what you do is is is work. Did you tame good enough to put out in the world? I think you're probably doing pretty good. I mean, I think, that's that's a pretty good average of things that are more something you know you hope better, but that that you're doing that. I think that's doing your job, but you got to go also believe you gotta go through some of the ones that aren't there just a kind of flush mount bright right. You have to get that you have to get that out. Otherwise, it's stuck there and it's going to mess with everything I should do, and just just you know, if there's something on your mind, to work on work on it to the end, get the best you can make. It then look at it and go hey. Was this really something I should have worked on, yes or no? And then then you can push it. And kind of move on. I think important flush out your your mind that way. Do you ever come back to your stuff, like sort of almost like, like come back to it, You haven't thought about it in forever and look at it with.

Shots like almost like you're, collaborating with somebody else in NAM. Numbers number, I'm very much. The guy who believes like the first instinct is probably the correct one. Most of the time interesting I don't like to go back and edit and that it's not me really so, when you write a song, you write us on pretty much wow, It's interesting! Does everybody? Do it that way? No! No! Not at all. There are guys who will take a whole year to write once all really and I can't write with those guys but I don't have that kind of patience. I don't and they've written some songs that I think, are fantastic and I really do it. Pre she ate it. I'm I'm completely impatient rotec songs. I I feel like My favorite song from ones that just kind of fall down out the sky in a bolt of lightning brought in about ten minutes or like that's exactly what it was supposed to be right. I'm done I'm going to go, eat a sandwich

right how much you should do right under the influence of something. I don't like that really really to do that. Or, but you know it's. I don't like that that much because I like The clarity there's a you know some guys can't do it without it, some guys, it's like that, makes them all of a sudden turn to the Michael Jordan of songwriting. You know, but it just that's for me. If I'm going to do something like that, that's it's recreational and I'm going to go. You know eat much chips and watch a movie or something right not going to I'm not going to get any real, how much worthwhile going to come out of that. For me yeah! That's it! It's an interesting thing that people have is different approach to essentially, what's an open, ended, creative avenue, you know

creating a song, that's like to blank! She, your paper and write your your idea, and so many different people different approaches to how to how to make that thing come out of their head yeah. Well, I'm not say and that I haven't tried many different ways, but I find you know for Maine the process that clarity works better than than than trying to alter myself to get to some other plane, but maybe there is another plan I don't know about, but I've never been there right. I would George Carlin had an interesting way. O comedy would write, comedy sober and then he was smoke, a joy, punch it up yeah so he'd write the initial ideas write it all out right out the bit and okay. Well, I mean, I think, that probably

works in comedy yeah. I I've started adopting that. I used to write almost all high and now now I write fifth percent high, fifty per and sober and then a punch up, okay, yeah, but not too hot and punch up as a comedic term for editing yeah, pretty much yeah. It depends on some styles of writing. Some guys right in bit form like they say so, the other day I want and they write it out like that and other guys would just like say, clocks, like the idea of clocks, the arbitrary decision that we all made that there's numbers around the style of this. It's a minute. Is this amount of time and you start writing all these different things. In and out of that, you might write a whole essay and I might have one paragraph that makes sense like one Qu. One liner about time. You know

Maybe it's an answer to a pretentious friend. It's like there is new time man yeah. Well, if you fucking show up late and you get fired it's time for you get a new job like that could be a way where you could take time and just take like this big essay on it and you would extract an idea that eventually be humor on stage, but everybody. Different style. That yeah, you know, that's a lot of thinking, fuck man and it's all a lot of thinking right did that's why I always love talking to people to do something completely different to me like you, as I was want to know like how how is a guy who writes books. Do this, how does a guy who writes songs do this? How does a guy who makes movies do this? You know because it seems like it's a lot of the same muscles, but the bin then, and talking here, I'm not sure that the processes are exactly. I don't know if that they always translate. I think the folk

This is the same thing. It's like your. Whatever your end goal is whatever you're trying to create it's all about showing up and doing that work and staring at it and trying to figure it out and then for comedy a lot about getting in front of the crowd. You gotta, you gotta, a lot, if you don't work a lot, it's not don't work, just lot, it's you have to be out there won't just create comedy on your own, whereas I thank you with a bunch of like talented musicians. You could probably developed a fuckin jam and record for anyone never got a chance to see it and that's what that's, what you do: yeah yeah It's completely different style of creation, although we did you know we do try things out on the road like and you kind of get a feel form. Sometimes that way so yeah we do. We do some of that absolutely, but probably not as much as what you're talking about yeah. I think it's a different art form right. Do you ever have you ever do things specifically with the intent

getting material out of it like out in life. Yeah like go, do something like like. Maybe if I go do this I'll, I got a good some songs out of this or something you know. I don't know that I'd ever Cesar specifically do something to get material out of it. But I do do things because something comes up. I go that sounds so weird. I'm going to go. Do that and and from that, and then from that either good things or I have a story that yeah sounds like it's fake. That might be the best way to Do it right to just live a happy fulfilled life and mine that happy fulfilled life for ideas rather than chase staying things with the specific intention of turning them into creativity, yeah. No, I I don't think I would do that, but I'd say. Definitely I go to things that might make me uncomfortable, or you know, put myself on. Such

wages were like this sounds like the weirdest thing out like what what you're the case in point in that turn you know now good friends, but the first time ever met Timberlake Justin, Timberlake yeah. I got a call to basically play at his birthday party. His wife called Maine does, and this is no live like he'd, seen the Youtube, video or something and said hey, would you come play it? I thought I was getting punctured and I'm just like and the conversation went in his wife. Jesse was she was like yeah, you know, there's not, a lot of things that he's done a lot of things, it's hard for me to find new experiences for him, and so I wonder if you would like to come played his birthday party, so I'm thinking, and so this is, you came up with this. Well did he saw Youtube video on get him to come, play his birthday party and it turned out to be

and we hung out. You know, but you know on paper, would to like this is really strange. I don't know this, I don't know what's going to happen right, but that we we we've become friends and- and you know done things together and and and good things have come out of it. You know, but there was no tent out of it other than to than I thought it would be interesting to go, do and, and so I went and hung out and- and it turned out to be great and and we're we're good friends now and that's pretty badass yeah number that but that's how we make you too there we are- and I was literally his birthday present one years: that's wild man, that's pretty cool yeah. I think that might be the the formula. Just if you can do things is that you find interesting. Those is being like. Excellent side, side,

Adventures in your life right, You know nobody else has to understand, but you and that's that's the cool part about it. Yeah we used to get out of it. We are I use member Brandon like why are you spending time in a literate man? Well, I've been in that list and I got a cut on a Dell rash so that that who would have thought that that was the actual a plus b, we'll see formula for that right, they'll be in a blue. Band and you'll get a pop cut on the biggest pop star is a funny, though the someone say: hey why you want to be in a bluegrass band with they wouldn't say: hey why you like going fishin yeah, I don't know yeah. If you like it now like it. It was. Why do you like bowling right? It's interesting to me, so I'm going to follow, follow that road until it ends or takes it curve or runs off a cliff Do you do anything specifically to try to enrich your mind? Do you read a lot or anything I'm not

schrader? I do play a lot of I just I just play a lot of guitar. I think that's my thing that I really kind of internal Amazon. Like almost like a meditation. Yes, absolutely. If I'm, if I'm feeling better and a bad head space, I'm gonna pick up a guitar from you know. That's that's what I do. The the That is that's. If there's a centering feng, I'm gonna pick up a guitar to to get there for me, died, and I don't know I don't know if that's mind that's flexing your mind a little bit, but it is something but start from those things you're ever getting any better at it. Until one day you wake up, and you stand something that you didn't understand and hadn't understood. For the ten years you been trying to understand

and then all the sudden, you have this new. You know new space to live on it and and it's and it's the coolest thing in the world to me whoa. I know what you're saying, but I don't know if I want towing on one out yeah, knowing he had a. U level like, like you were, can out of your working out in your work and you work out for ten years and you never this get you at this point we're like art. This is the peak of what I've have and then someday. Unknown reason, your body or something it makes sense and all the sudden, you could do something you can never before and that's that's were planning a taurus I do I kind of understand the space you're talking about, and I think that applies to a lot of different things. You know is this movie to MIA Moto, massage quote that I, like you, once you understand the way. Broadly, you see it in all things, and that this place that you're talking about

level, places like that exists in martial arts exam. This in comedy exists in writing and exists in I'm sure it exists in music, although to music, Francis think this thing of, this zen samurai thing you're talking about it. Just like this constant focus until you reach some new understanding of the thing, and you don't even know how you get in there, but you but you're, but you're, working towards something that you don't know what it is until you get. Yeah and then you get it and you have this new and it's a new all the sudden Europe something new to, and maybe that's We were talking about earlier about people who second com, all the sudden. There.

Yeah, you know like that's, you know, that's what I get off on is is finding finding that you know and and and I and I don't claim to be- you know- I'm not like. I don't belong in me to get a cartoon or or anything like that, but I do love guitar enough to know that. I'm always plain enough to try to find that new space to to live and, and has the coolest thing rolled me, because I'll I'll never get to whatever there's never an end to it right right, yeah, there's, no perfection, there's no perfection, there's no, never into its just a constantly trying to get better at doing what you do, a painting being new leads

how to make yourself better, yeah and that's saying seems to manifest itself more with with a singular focus like guitar yeah yeah. You have to be like where it says with one thing: yeah and that and that's it for me for the most part Chris Stapleton, your bad motherfucker. Thank you for coming on the show man. I really appreciate it. Man, I've been a real. It's a real honor man. Thank you! Go by folks. It's we'll see tomorrow thank you. Everybody for tune into the podcast and thank you to our sponsor Motherfucking Square Space Square space, dot com, the solution: if you want to make a website, you don't have to hire anybody, you could do it yourself and you can make it amazing. Their design for templates are beautiful and it's such a simple, easy to use, drag and drop user interface. You literally can't go wrong, so go check it out, go to first base dot com for a free trial and then, when you're ready to launch use the offer

to save ten percent off your first purchase of a website or domain okay. Okay. Tomorrow, ladies and gentlemen, tomorrow we have on that wacky doctor guy, that I've been telling you guys about. I say wacky with all do respect his name. RON Baker and he's literally a surgeon who only eats meat. That's it he's on a car. Carnivore diet is actually collected data from studies of p that only eat me there's a lot of Ethical concerns, health concerns, a lot of different things, we're going to address all that shit tomorrow, but it should be very

interesting and he's very passionate about this and very informed, apparently so we're going to find out what that means, but what's it all about Alfie, alright, tomorrow, we'll see, then much love, bye, bye,.