I everybody welcome to fireside chats number two hundred forty. She That's too bad. You don't see megan the arms smile, because it's rare with that, I get the right number two hundred forty. rare occasion. Well, let me just open up by saying I'm dennis figure, and this is my as every week to talk to you from my heart and my mind about I was on my mind and then half the time is up What's on your mind with your questions, this is, of course, America's best known dog tracks me up. I have to say It has no impact on auto, but it those crack me up. Very rarely I would say what is it may be, six times a year maxim of six times a year I actually have a guest of the fires. Chat and there's a reason for that

I really have tried to preserve these weekly times. As Really you you and I that that has been very important to me, but there are people, I really have wanted to interact with at length on this. The my guest is one of those people badia unger Sargon and if you didn't catch- that last name I'll, say it again: unger sar gone, It is from a harry potter series. Doesn't it sounds like you know that I think but here is a very, very interesting individual, a thinker. I love thinkers. She is one. Associate the opinion. Editor is your title deputy opinion at debt, Debbie,

the opinion editor newsweek and by the way I have no vested interest in saying this, but news we over the last few years is truly improved, am I it regularly. I just see if it's a free add the news. We got only agree with every article, but that doesn't matter there are there still. things were a lot of them worth. Reading. Now you may you may be wondering why bob here is on the fireside chats because there are, lot of associate editors out there. That right associate. No deputy their allotted deputy editors out there a lot of deputies, but This is a woman who has questioned herself and questioned american thinking. So I want- and I want to develop your intellectual autobiography to begin with. If I have you ten years ago and so

what are you politically? What would you have said? I would have said I am a liberal Would you have said that you are, if I have been said, or somebody else said to you. So ah would you say you're a leftist? Would you said okay here that that's fine yeah right. So this liberal either one cause more or less anonymous in your mind. What I ask you as if this moment, what would you say you are politically, I would send a marxist Didn't expect that I have to admit. I have a feeling this was going to go in directions. I had no idea. This is the sort of yogi berra moment when there's a fork in the road take it. That is what we call a fork in the road. You're, a marxist you're, kidding me now so saw so why,

Are you to the west of the liberal? I would have met ten years ago on some issues, yes, and on some issues. No, so when people criticise critical race theory, for example, say it's a marxist ideology, I kind of one a lie. Because the problem with today's left is an insufficiency of mars. does a man. By that I mean they don't care about class, and I really care about. Class. I think the number one threat to american democracy is the enormous class chasm that's opened up between the college, educated and the working class, and I think that the entire working class has been deeply formed from american society. They have no voice in political life, and that's extremely dangerous, and because I, my analysis of our problems are class based. I call myself a marxist because

I was marxist point of view now I don't accept his solutions and things are critical race theory, the use of the sort of marxist binary between powerful and powerless that you now see engender and in racial discussions. I totally reject that. I think that is so totally corrosive. You know I'm religious, it's so against everything. My religion tells me about what makes us human. What makes us americans will make this. You know worthy of god's love. Bites the same time, I have to say. I think that my analysis of what ails us is is quite marxist in nature. I there's a spiritual component to it. There is also an economic component to it, and I think that that should be the focus of people who care about the american family. For example. I want to see them talking about economics. I mean asked you about that

well, but so I would say yeah in some ways. I'm further left on economics, but not in a way that the today the left would recognise they believe in welfare label even handouts label. They want the working class to essentially belong to the poor. They want to sustain them and support them. They want rich people to sort of basically underwrite the existence of everybody who is not as rich as them, and I think that that's really insulting and growth by your true they do get. You will. Let me just say: forgive me one moment so really want or just address for a moment those watching. I study marxism. That was my. the study and the and communism and the left. So I can explain and in very briefly what is involved and you are certainly frida react, but I Their stay. Everything you just said I'm here here is what it is marked, divided the world, my class, bird divided the world by race, more

Communism and nazism had everything in common, except that they both extremes david vast numbers, tens of millions of people. They were both vicious that they were both pure cruelty. They were both totalitarian but they weren't the same philosophically, and what? What the, though Marxist slash communist view of the world is the proletariat she's the bourgeoisie or or class difference and hitler was race difference the left. Today I read Likely I knew you're, certainly free. You know that to differ with anything or modify anything. I say what the left is closer to peddlers totalitarianism, then than to Stalin'S- because they divide, the world, not by class but but by race. While that is so interesting. I personally feel that to me

people are compared to the nazis and all my locker appeared? No, not only do we have philosophical, there were no death camps, they know concentration camps, people are being tortured to death. I fully acknowledge that only talking philosophically the obsession with race.

On. The left today is reminiscent of the worst people that ever walked. Planet earth completely grant you that, but I think you to buy my definition, our marxist and the reason. I think that is because, when I listen to you talk about covert and about the way that the government use this as an excuse for the greatest, a poor transfer of wealth in american history from the middle class to the disgustingly wealthy. When I hear you talk about the impact of lockdown have had how they benefited the laptop class and keen eliza and and turned the working ass from sustained that class with their labour into you. Don't lefferts! You know forced them to to bear the burden of the risk and then treated them like dirt for having done so important

all of these mandates on them. That is that's a marxist analysis of where we failed. That is a class based analysis of the way in which the pandemic impact in different sectors of american society differently, and so I think you, we are well a marxist, don't I don't have any issue really. I mean I have a lot of issues with marxism, in other aspects, as I know you do because you just said you did so in the light of that you, you might call donald trump, a marxist, I say, I'm the kind of socialist donald trump was. I thought his economic policy was spot on. I thought it was. It was great for black americans for hispanic americans, the lowest unemployment in black american history. I thought that getting rid of nafta was fantastic. I thought the trade where with china was fantastic. I love these tariffs. I think his economic policy was

what bernie sanders would have implemented. Had he one either the elections deasey bertie shavers would have implemented. Oh yeah, I mean Bernie sanders in two thousand fifteen was asked by as recline you care about the poor. So much should they have open borders shouldn't we care about the global, poor and Bernie sanders laughed in his face and said open borders. That's a coke brothers proposal. They want every day they want nothing more than other global boy has said a word, Yes, he did a one. Eighty when he was running against trumps about. Is that to me, as it is about whether the left you used to be like Bernie sanders? They to be anti immigration because they understood- I don't know your legal immigrants and anti illegal immigration and mass immigration, because they understood the fundamental and obvious truth that you can't have a wage for if you have an unlimited supply of low wage labour. That used to be the left's position today, if you

that position the position they had thirty years ago. They call you a white supremacist and racist. That's that's. You see the shift in who they're talking to who they care about So are you a marxist to identify more with the democratic or republican party? So when I look at the two parties, ask myself, who is more likely to? I think neither party is speaking for the working class from an economic point of view. You know there. Will you think trump, I think trump did as really represented those interests, but he was. He got a lot of flat from traditional republicans for doing that. You didn't like that. They like this, you know open borders. They like roaring trade, will one they wanted big companies to have cheap labour. absolutely. You know like they say that they know slavery, we're when they see a right like they're, not going to oppose that. So you know, I think, for

long time there was a sort of handshake agreement between democrats and republicans that you know we need to focus on trade at the expense of the working class, but to bring in you know cheap products and treat cheap labor to benefit the the elites. Trump really through a ranch in that. But today, if you look at where the day well crats are at and who they're. Speaking to you know you hear a lot of people saying. Oh, the Democrats, their messaging is bad right and I always say their messaging is perfect: they're signaling, exactly who they're speak? to when they talk about green new deal, which will replace thousands of good pang union energy jobs. low wage? Terrible, minimum wage, temporary, green jobs right, that's not a problem in messaging. That's a parliament who their faces rage problem in the message exactly exactly so Look at the Democrats, there, catering and every item on their less their catering to a very

over educated, liberal coastal professional elite. That's who their bases now who they see as their base they ve long abandoned, working class. Do I look at the republican party and I think there is a real divide? You have people like marker, rubio, standing up and saying you know, like he told me in an interview six months ago. There is a real divide between our donor base and our voter base, and we need to start speaking to the voter base. There's no one on the democratic side saying that but to me, I'm looking very very with a lot of interest at this divide in europe, can party where there is a real populist energy to have the kinds of economic reforms at the working class needs? But then, of course, there's the old republican party that much more into that free market orientation and an I'm watching that struggle very closely will wait. You're, you interestingly juxtaposing free market and good for the lower class, a lot of

I would say, free market is great for the lower class. It's that its government. intervention that has that has killed. classes in this country, so to me, as you yourself said, that two earlier about the handouts you're not for handout. Yes, now acacia that that's so that I mean we'll do pretty well the way that I see it is we have what looks like a debate about economic policy in america, but is not a real debate. You have one side offering handouts which the working class does not want. They believe in autumn me. They want to work, they want to support their family. If they don't want to live on the door? You know so that what the liberal offering is? Just you know it's tested to solve on their guilt that there's so much richer than the people they cling to care about but on the right, I don't know how you can look at these decimated communities in former manufacturing boone

pounds. You know- and I not feel like like to me. It nafta offshoring of manufacturing vat was government intervention that traded trade for jobs. I think that a let's see com. In terms of trade and working class, people see the economy in terms of jobs, and the government intervened to take me and five million could blue collar middle class jobs and ship them to china. Now china is the fastest growing middle class, this enrages me ages me, how could we have done that? How could, but that was, that was done in the name of free trade and- and I think that that that was a huge mistake- and I do I wanted to ask you about the sis- is on my list of questions for you. Actually, you know I look at the work, class. I look at the downward mobility. I look at these broken families. I look at the number of children being born out of wedlock from people who don't feel they can afford to get married. You know, and I asked myself- ok

I think you and I would agree there is clearly a spiritual component. There there's you very clearly. You know that the defamation of religion, respect for religion, but the defamation of american family, sometimes government set, subsidized right, sometimes government incentivize. I think we would agree that all of these things have contributed to the breakdown of the american community in the american family. In these things out, you know really are important for our nation stability, but what I want to know is what I wonder if I can get you to agree with me that Ok, what what the conservatives want, something I actually want to, which is for women to have the choice to stay home and raise their children. I think that's really important. You know that gets back to that spiritual problem, a problem with the family. You know that the fact that they can afford to do that, but that that's the question I wanted to ask you win.

can afford to make that choice right now, because many men are not earning enough to give them that opportunity of this twenty years ago. Will you book about this called the two income trap? We ve created an economy whereby you know I've been ocean. Blames the feminists you no kind of in this implies away. Where were you blame? We ve created an economy where working class american simply cannot afford wonderful. one income so, but that is that is an economic problem to where I want know what are conservative, offering those men which we all want them to be able to support their families. The free market is not I get them there. The free market gives jack pesos all the money so that he can baines drivers fit in dollars an hour which is just not a living wage, you can't raise a family on that right. So what is this? What is the conservative free market response to that? Because, from my point of view, I would love to see the republicans take. Take the front on four forever.

you know what we're gonna be the party of american families and what that means is we're where the party of a living wage for one worker, your using a family Jeff bathers can't pay. You fifty dollars an hour to me that that's a conservative point of view. I'm so curious. What you think about also why I will just take the last one of the minimum wage. I I went from supporting minimum wage to not supporting minimum wage, because and by quite the opposite of the new york times in new york times things having these said, as minimum wage zero dollar zero sense that was their editorial, so gone in the opposite direction. The new york times is for it now and I'm not only because everything? I read about the minimum wage from people? I respect, argues against it In a nutshell, the restaurant is now too

you have to pay your waiters fifteen dollars and if space if it's a national minimum wage. That means it's true for alabama, not just new york city, where they can ease We pay pay fifteen dollars an hour, but not not an alabama so What will happen is that really will raise the prices of their food but he owns arrest them on makes a lot of money, so they re the price of food, but then fewer people will come as sufficient I go on, of course they raise the price of food, so guy in the minimum wage has to pay more for food. So then what will offer happen, as happened in seattle is just a lot of restaurants will close down so to my mind the guy earning. A small wage is building up muscles work, muscle to enable him or her as the case may be too then do more work and better work,

You will learn how to go to work, how to get up in the morning. The these are just like building muscles. You don't start with a hundred pound wait you start out with five pound waits or to pound weights, and so I tell look at the minimum wage as you can't storm at a hundred pound weight, and if these people who work hard, they work there them themselves up in life, but you're asking another question to which is a fair one. How does the job is the free more which produces a Jeff Bezos. How does it help? these vast numbers of especially men not making enough money to support a fan. they, which you would like to see to which I would like to see so Michael to. You is, is jeff basis come relevant now, ok, so if he's relevant, and the question is somewhat of a non sequitur- the fact that Jeff basis, as you know, one hundred billions of dollars or whatever has or

a billion dollars doesn't effect the the guy, but but there's no happy way to destroy the free market and keep freedom. Economic freedom is poor. Of of human freedom. So I have no choice. There, there's no perfect answer but I will tell you the number of couples. I know who simple have decided they will live on less money to be able to have a full time. in the house, and they were and they will that they will not eat out very often because they're, usually religious, usually christian and although old ultra religious jews will be in a very similar, although, ironically, they did with the opposite. The woman works in the husband's studies. Torah, though, which is another issue for another time, but any way up I can't see compromising on the free market and not losing liberty, so there

no happy answer to your question. The. the world was better when you could live on one income that had its own disaster, because if the man divorced her, what could she- economically women who would devote their lives to their family, this is the one of the modern origin of feminism, which I get look at, what and to all the women who did decide. I won't work outside of the house than theirs divorce and and she's left. Basically and all this because she has no profession to fall back on so I understand all these arguments. Life is filled with trade offs and I'm just saying to you that I do idle on a compromise on any aspect of freedom, including free speech. I Totally aware. Free speech allows for hate speech

because I am totally aware that the free market allows for reject Jeff the track. Should he of the Jeff basis, while they were to one you cited already from me, which drove me out of my mind that during the lock downs ajar whose hardware store had to shut down, but Walmart didn't that was evil that was pure evil. It was the Democrats a of of ruining small businesses because they hate small business because they usually conservative. They of walmart. They love that guy, so it I am is furious. Is you are on on that issue, but Just as I understand free speech me, that they will be hate speech. I understand that the free market means there will be a Jeff bays, Osanna walmart. I There should be some antitrust legislation a brought about. I do that that even free market

there is a do believe in Personally, I by buy whatever I do from the internet from from a star rather than the weather than the amazon it's just my little way of trying to keep them the little guy in business. But if, in the end the tragedy is Jeff, pesos has made the decision to be on the left, as they all have, as bill gates has to anne, and that's that hurt the country, but I dont. I know that there is a price pay for every every freedom. That's my answer to you. I guess what I would respond. you know, freedom requires certain basic needs to be fulfilled

I believe you are young you park on right. The in very chair- and I remember she said when you are starving freedom doesn't mean anything because your starving, like you, first thing you need is there are certain basic conditions and to me just I am not willing to praying next tuesday but he ensure who I am sentencing to never be able to live, but the standard that I live that at that. Something in me really were bells at that like to sit at home and receive a package from amazon from someone who I know could never afford to buy property. In my neighborhood, and I I something? In me, that's a letter, I don't I don't have that you you it's funny, in that sense you wanna lastly apply. I'm have that at all. I look the guy who delivers my package- and I think this is beautiful- the guy-

is working hard, probably has a wife. Hopefully he has kids and if if his head is screwed on right and his values are good and he has religion in his life. This guy. you have my material life, but he has a great life, but you don't feel that as american We always each other something. Of course. I do that's a separate issue where we look my belief. The america my idea was, I take care of me. I take care of my family. I take care of my community americans did that to Tocqueville In an early eighteen, hundreds wrote how you mean we charitable americans were how many associations we created, like the rotary club and and the church club too, to take care of the next guy I'm and by the way to this day, conservatives give more charity in volunteer more time than liberals. Are you aware of that?

We already have shown that I'll, even one up you, the middle class, is thriving in red states, whereas blue states, are these sort of feudalism. Yes, that's right what filled with the rich, professional, managerial, buddy, boy, surrender and the immigrants who service them, but I think that that is extremely important. How did not happen he was a celebrity react to you cause. I I feel to your credit that I can be totally open with you, so I grew up like you, so I dunno, if you're, the first jew with that seat or while note so marisa, obviously, but but it's pretty, if it's from four no specific reason, it's not most common to have a a jew in that sea. And so you live where I grew up brooklyn and we both groping but just jewish homes, so

I am. I grew up in new york, as I said, so I I grew up believing Democrats were good guys, republicans were worth for the upper. Where's, the little guy protector was a democratic. Jews vote that way because they they'll believe that, what are you no longer believe that yes and you still vote that way and at which moves only- and I say this only only with empathy as a note and nothing else hard. It is off when its drilled. To you from your childhood and by your community that x, Good- and why is bad? It is incredibly hard to get rid of that. you will love this. I've never told this publicly, but you will appreciate this. A hundred per cent

you're watching well appreciated eighty six percent, so I grew up and The rocks do, of course, never write non kosher, food and in my junior year in england, away from my parents, I decided to violet every ritual law and judaism. Not ethical lodge ritual law cause. I wanted to observe not out of habit but out of conviction and analysed tough to do certain things when I have never done it shows it was very hard. The first time I am, but want you to know- and this will this is regulatory, I think, to the non Jews watching. but you will understand this. It was motion only and jewish lee, that's key

argue for me, the first time I voted republican than the first time. I gave him wow, that's how the, if it is in a jew to be democratic, can jerry and american journey not an israeli drew the other than they have nothing in common by large? I would have, no problem voting for a republican. If I felt that they supported the things air to me, and I, by the way, a lot of republicans me up and say: hey? What can I do to get the working class bo? You know what should I be defending? What should I be supporting, and I am only too happy to Well, then, what would make me you know me or any of the you know, working class people that are regularly in touch with vote for them. I mean I, I there's a lot of people doing good work on the right that I'd be happy right. Well, all right, but what? What will get to the specific by the way just want to say that the Jews watching I I don't eat him I did meet him after that year, but

I only wanted to make the point about now. Yes, emotionally wrenching, it was an odd. I first voted public in it was ronald Reagan. I was already an adult. When, when when that happened, so ok, so that gets me now a push. The challenge a little further you're, saying if there was a candidate who X, Y and inzana right. Ok, I I will vote for candidates. I only vote by party because I vote by ideology the if the threat to america that has never existed since the civil war. That is my belief, is too important to who you vote for that that debts that we have energy prices forcing the clash. Care about what why the class you care about paying for five and six dollars for gas. My middle east

but, as I say, everytime I talk about them. They are rich white board, secular people like. Al Gore? They are soulless empty. Beings trying to save the world to give their life meaning I agree with you about the environmental is I'm in California. You have something that and the environment those civil rights lawyer, I jennifer- I Nan Hernandez, caused the green Jim crow. She this amazing position paper about it about how blanched rowan hispanic californians are being pushed into the central valley pushed into the hottest places where they are forced to pay because they can afford? You know, took to pay the rent by homes and, in a word, slightly cooler, their pushed to the hottest posit parts of california, and then the energy prices are so high that they're paying twenty thirty percent of their income just to have a say in their home.

and she calls it the green, Jim crow, it's it's energy poverty is what she calls it and that's the word in germany there it's called energy poverty, and I don't remember the german word. That's right by the way. It's both yeah you're Sargon one talking to her. She is one of the areas of news we I'm a writer as well a thinker and a speaker and really having a great time, by the way as one who is to be a very well known. Do I, I fear radically. would feel anti semitism in the world that I I live in the right wing, the conservative world am I I have never look I shall comments on articles of mine, some people, I say all we know the zionist the eunuch at all the him are you, but

comments on the internet me. Nothing I mean every single. Can convey the comments, especially when you don't have a name. You have a pseudonym, but I gotta tell you in main street. This is what matters mainstream, not not the crackpots on either side mainstreaming left has a huge anti jewish component? Yes, mainstream right doesn't yes, agreed a great where, where were very lucky, to live in a country where we put it this way in england, when Jeremy carbon gives a speech tat, sins of working class, british people- and he starts talking about how Israel is a colonialist genocidal endeavor- I don't know if he's ever used those words, but you know what I'm talking about. Certainly a prototype yeah those people go crazy. With excitement,

Is there a little spidey sense for a thousand years, which has been primed to blame the Jews first class warfare and everything that's wrong with their lives? They, here Israel, and they did, he says, is run they hear jews and they get really excited because that's in this, it's in the blood in the soil on Europe, it's just there. It's a fact of european life. We are so blessed in this country, but that is just not the case. Are working classes, deeply design, ass, deeply file, semitic, the christian right is very fast, the we have just very this is this. As you say all the time, there has never been a country that has been this good to the Jews, and I think it's important to stress that, because a lot of people are sort of about how america is becoming like europe, where it's sort of sheikh on the left to hate jews. Just you notice,

or boycotting Israel, that's true, it is becoming sheikh to Hay jews among the tiny little elite on the left. The progressive elite below a percentage of americans call themselves progressives is six percent And by the way only run our parliamentary schools, high schools, colleges newsreel ever meant that this is a point I wanted to make, because I think, for the first time in my life I met These are getting more conservative because of left wing overreach. I think the american people are going to save us, so I think for the last fifty years, they have to save us through the political process, because you you, you will continue to have next, and our gasoline, if you dont allowed really, if you don't allow fraction If you don't allow nuclear power, I mean that's the ultimate. I think proof of the dishonesty of the environmental movement that the carbon free there against carbon free nuclear power. I think something republicans I understand that I would like

them to is the vast chasm separating the democratic leadership that the political class, the chattering class, the journalistic class, the intelligentsia, the universities that six per cent of progressives from them? breast of the democratic values. They will still vote democratic irrelevant, but I think ok. This is another thing. I want to ask you about. Ok, so you say we ve. Never and that we are more divided even than we were in the civil war, because then we were only divided over slavery today were divided over everything goes flutter that you know why? That's why I disagree I'd I have to disagree. I think that polarization is a totally elite phenomenon, the people who are trying because hate each other are people who make money off of it, and people will get power from it and an eye

You dont, if you're running in a race against someone, you can convince the voters that the other guy's a groomer or that the other guy's a racist. It's all its game over, because if it's a mere hitler, it's me right does no real choice right since very clear why politicians are polarizing us Because it gives them a lot of power, it makes things easier and then they don't have to deliver for their constituents but they're doing this in thing in the media and are doing the same thing in big tech every time you see something on the that makes you feel wage one made a million dollars. a million dollars, like literally they have hacked our emotions and turned our hearts into their little. You know eighty comes where they're, making money off of making us hatred are illegal. I ever written answer for you. Let me to local level. I must cut you sure. I think all the polling shows that americans are just not that polarized on even the biggest issues. You pull them they're, all somewhere in the middle and end, but the pot. The two parties are on either side of that I have like it

I have examples, but let me let me hear your voice, okay. So the the argument is not as true as it might be. I I don't find that compelling for this reason. Ice. As I told you, I studied communism. So people are shocked to know that in the soviet union. I think them. action on percentage. may be wrong, but the maximum percentage of soviet citizens I say so vehement russian kosovo union, with russia and in an all the republic's around it like ukraine under Ten percent of the population were members of the communist party, so to speak. A well there's this big gulf between the communist party and and the multitude is irrelevant, because the ten per cent made all the policies. So if there was this big gap, what why why on god's earth is the

bridge Democrat who doesn't agree that men give birth voting for them. Well account just give you one example: let's talk about abortion K. Abortion looks like one of these issues where we're total polarized right, forty, nine percent of americans say their pro life. Forty nine percent say their pro choice. When he drove the numbers over. Sixty percent of pro choice- people so of democrats, think it should only be legal for the first trimester, so basically the mississippi bill right. Fifteen weeks and you're done. You know You need a really good note from your doctor for anything after that, because it starts to get a little barbaric, great That's the median democratic voter believes that Meanwhile, on the right. Seventy five percent of americans who think that abortion it should be totally illegal or who who who call themselves pro life. Let's say: seventy five percent of pro lifers believe there should be exceptions for rape, incest and mother's health.

if you did not choose to get pregnant with you all of that is that of europe. So so what we meet! What that means is, as you have like a say, eighty percent of americans think abortion will be okay, ok, but but okay, so let me make the point. The point is this: What what happens you so? Eighty percent of americans are social sort of somewhere in the middle agree on most of this stuff. You know what should be done. It should be like you know, not, you know, after certainly illegal after after fifteen weeks, you know after first trimester certainly should be legal for rape. Incest and mothers, health and then you know, like probably gonna, be ten percent more than where they'll disagree. But what are we? the parties. Do you ve got one? pretty saying woman have the to choose until the day before the baby is due, that's feminism, a new, hey women. If you don't believe that right and the other side that saying, if you fall down of a flight of stairs where's after six weeks and I'm a miscarriage you're likely to face charges so don't bother

parties are so no. No, that's no you are only theoretically if you have an abortion, but the miscarriages none of the border, of the bills have, if you, yes, you do something you behave in a way, that's considered, reckless or whatever. It is all well you're sure. In total ban oklahoma total ban no exceptions for the seventy five percent of pro life, who think there should be exceptions for incest, rape and others are. so you're normal american you're in the middle somewhere right and your choice that all that's. Why are you my rudely interjected? Instead, I don't have that abortion will beat determinative a most people's voting. I happen to ruth everything you just said and by the way I do Think there should be exceptions, may even though it is not consistent with the belief that it is a human life, I fully acknowledge that

but I also believe that you always have to do what is better, not aim for the best kay. The best is the enemy of the better so to get to get the vast majority of early of late term abortions, or gotten rid of I'm perfectly okay with compromising animal, I'll have to answer the god for that. But I think God knows I live on earth. Not in Heaven am I am. I the deal with the realities of life so but the the puzzle to me is not over abortion. The puzzle why you who say that this is big gap between the left and the rest of the democratic party. Why they vote Democrat for all these. or issues as they did,

do they want their kids sexual eyes at the age of five, where I can ask you thinking about republican voter, ask me I mean before you have ok, the thick west virginia right. They did they do you have a publicans? Who are blue collar people, you know, and they are voting for politicians who are republican. But who are you know, enacting legislation on things like right to work, laws that if you speak to work as you speak, our electricians, you speak to two carpenters. You speak to people most reaching it. They will say to you yeah that hurts us so why'd you vote for polygon. They have different, isn't just what do? They have a reason why? I still don't know I'm asking what the Democrats reason is: the reason that a lot of republicans would have is that every single union in the country is left wing unions. Her a man with I told that's, that's

tell me, only won't disagree about that- I like ok, so I would love unions if they only cared about workers union. DA the enemy of everything I cherish in this country, especially teachers unions, the most corrupt vile, anti child anti american organization. In the country I mean there are people tied with them, but but that's the reason The average west virginia knows unions. Think for you. What support like collective bargaining, I would say port. Anything for that we should absolutely that's correct. Ok, I have questions here, we go recently was on Michael shermer spike ass right and he asked me a very interesting question. I want to ask you he said to me so you're religious. I said yes and religious. He said okay! Well, here the question for you. Why are you jewish? Not christian? Oh, are you that. For every day

yeah we're there hasn't been a time in my life would just talking right before we got on about how I chris. often say you know, I think, the most prayed for man in america and I think I think it's true because of the many more before christians who prey that, like that, I receive christ, and I I don't take that by the way, just one, they can clear. I'm not only not offended. I'm actually touched by these people really do love me and I love them. Look there that's a whole, fascinating discussion. I have that every year I have asked you ask a gentle with a prominent the christian thinker. The and the issue of course comes up I I believe that I believe an revelation ass. Such ended with the old testament and

I shall, of course a crystal will say: yes, that's fine and Jesus was was foreshadowed in the old testament. So it's it's a matter of faith. My biggest issue is I I. I don't believe that anybody could die from my sins. I have. I have that issue. I have the issue of the divinity. Jesus. I don't have the issue with the mess messianic claims by the work. I always explained the christians, the jew, This problem is not that there were jews who believe that this was the messiah the that that never made the jewish christian separation, the jewish christian separation, was claims that he was god and that that went to the heart of jewish theology, but about of course it's a try, you, god for the christian in their eyes, the I do believe christians, your monotheists, even with a try, you god, but my view is the christians christians.

true to their faith or doing god's work. That's what I believe, as my mama these who was no fan of christianity or Islam, because he was persecuted by both the greatest jewish thinker. Many think he said it's christians. Who brought the world to the Torah more than jews did and- and I never forget that- that's a fact- the recently We'll know the word genesis form leviticus her due to write is because of christians. In fact, I am very I'm very sad about Jews getting as as closed in their world as they did. I got didn't choose the Jews to hide. God chose the jews to spread his word so, which is what I devoted my life to just. This is a sigh, thought what does that's interesting? That Michael shermer, whose an atheist would have asked you that question

Though I will tell you a question. I asked Michael Shermer, which I ask em atheists and the answer to Question reveals to me whether I think the atheist is intellectually honest or do you hope you're? right or wrong such a good question Why and I asked, and it's probably on youtube and when push comes to shove, To its credit, he said. of course, I want to show you my family after I die of course are. I hope I am wrong. Ok, it's it's the These two hopes he's right. Who was a fool, if not all atheists, I'm not all religious people are wise, but but the atheist, who hopes he's right, is a fool You really want this world to be empty.

Void of meaning, you really want to be a sheer material coincidence. you really want death to be the very end, everything every human everything you ve treasure. that is the end. You want that Are you out of your mind or have you not for seriously about the consequences of of atheists, which is true for half of them? They don't think the consequences when something you hope you're wrong about. Well, I wish I were wrong about the human nature. I wish I were wrong about a lot of things. I wish I were wrong, be specific, I Human nature was better than it is, but I I I know you want to change your mind about that. What would convince nothing? It's not it's not changeable cause. I have thousands of years of cruelty in human history and I am, and I raised children who, thank god,

our good, but if it is, you know, as I say, as I say all the time, if kids were basically good, why would, you have to say, say thank you ten thousand times literally ten thousand times. I think the average Where does it say? Thank you. Ten thousand times wouldn't go but to be natural if we were basically good. So I wish that people valued. I wish I were wrong and people valued freedom. More than free things, people value free things more than freedom. I wish I were wrong. Ok, but you once gave christopher hedge funds a hard time. I think very cleverly. You said to him: do you ever out your atheists and because I doubt as a religious personal allow was the fact that he said no was too you proof. I think this was really smart was proof that he is a believer and that you are the real thinker, that's correct or so, but here it seems like there's no room

for doubt anymore, in your mind, there's nothing you could possibly learn that. Would that would make you reconsider this position, which position that people are fundamentally bad, you're, pathetic, but that's not a position which it would be. It's almost like saying what will change your position on on rain being wet? I mean there are certain facts of life. The evidence is overwhelming that human nature is not basically good. So somebody would have to present to me evidence that I had never considered that's the s eye. That could happen, but it so. he's not a leap of faith, that guy gave moses. The ten commandments is a leap of faith. I've, I've Emily, believe it, but I know it's a leap of faith that human nature is not

basically, good is not a leap of faith. It's completely that the result of reason and evidence. Ok, so let's talk about revelation, I'm really interested to know so. Religion is really Until you see you say you believe in you, ve taken a leap of faith that the old testament was. There was a. Elation. It was god given to argue orthodox. If not, why not like wouldn't the the natural conclusion from that be go the full not go as far as one can go? What makes you put the line is far you're willing to go in terms of religiosity. What makes you put the line there? What's the rationale, their share, in a nutshell. This I'd have to explain to the the manual

viewer, which is the great majority of course, so that there are two huge aspects to judaism, biblical and rabbinic rabbinic. is obviously for the word rabbi, the great rabbis, who form the talmud the mission of the talmud, the the second holiest work in in judaism after the Bible So I believe that all the laws of the of judaism all biblical laws or when the Torah, the first five books, I believe, the five books or from god, and that is that they make their case in my my bible commentary, the rest, oh bible, why do you think that interest in jail in it that my argument? but the divinity of the tour. I think I'd give twenty argument now in my rational by

I'll give you one that you won't expect, but I fine for me at any rate, is extremely telling. If people wrote to the Torah, they would never have depicted the juices negatively as the toward the picture What is self? I love you. I know it. I had a feeling you, nobody mixed up, the robot themselves up. It's just you. Yes, it's it's unbelievably telling to me. So is it the brilliant so of the five books they the the leap. Where's god in history- that jeez all of humanity by the same moral standard. The first got in history that separates the world, not now Why try or nationality or even faith, but by but by moral behaviour the first got in

three. That is not male or female- that there's that sex. What this? God, in no way was involved in sexual activity. The first in history I mean there are so many firsts that I can't believe people came up with it. So it's all there. I hope you re living right enjoy picasso ordered twenty five thousand copies of do toronto. Me. I consider that but the greatest achievements of my life a year later in the year, but anyway, so so again to your question. so then come the rabbis and they add a great great number of laws. So, whereas I feel I have to obey gods law with regard to the rabbis laws. I feel now, of course,

the author, actual some of them, not the rabbis wars. There there, the oral law that god gave moses, but I dont see that's a leap of faith and I am quite willing to make because there's no evidence in the Torah that gave a separate body of law. In addition to that No all the arguments I went to you shiva, prefer till I was nineteen and then and then tulip judaism. My whole life, listen, my only allies and jewish lifer or generally orthodox jews. I have a great affection for them and I making the case for judaism, and I brought more juice to judaism than problem. We any living jus right now. I do believe by the way, I think I bought more people to christianity than any living christian right now which is really I'm proud of both. To be honest, because I make very compelling rational arguments, people think people don't realize how much theirs they love reason. When

a here reason it it was their minds, but they're so not used to with this watch, none rationality, I mean if, if most college I do it's believe men give birth. Do you realize how powerful the non rational has become the the anti rational? So when, when that's why they scare me. They scare me much more than that than the true believing christian or jew true believing secularist is a scarier, a crook creature, because they apply. Your rationale will need a real life. The religious person applies non rationality, as I do in my my own religiosity to religion, which is fine, I believe in god what ten plagues on Egypt. Is that fully rational? Of course not, but but what difference does it make to two to the world today? But if you think men give birth

If you really think kids can choose their gender at at the age of five years. Damaging this world, I'm not doing any damage to the world by believing god brought frogs on Egypt, are damaging the word the true believing a left. This the true believing secularist is more. Scarier than the true believing religionist, so so cunning off that- and you knew you argue, a lot that you just said that morality comes from the Torah from the judeo christian tradition, that without the bible we would not have a sense of that you have not nothing to hang there had on, you know: you'll do they have they have both a reason? and and and conviction, and an emotion, but they, but it's all still personal opinion, wait if, if god, didn't say: don't murder murderers

after being wrong is a matter of opinion. Okay, there are no moral facts outside of a god. Okay. So my question is this: so in the Torah and when god is planning to destroy saddam, on average saddam for the eye side Abraham is very upset about this right can turn to a sham any screens at an assurance god. He says how lila source code of our desire for Are you knew this anyway as hush? I faint call her at low yassum mish, but will the judge of that whole world, not to just ass, he said How dare you suggest you're gonna kill the righteous with the evil wrote that is unjust, right right and god listen to him. So I went out- and I think there was no Torah, then this was before the Torah was given break.

this was abraham and god work. You know in their little world bubble right with the two of them, and but but Abraham is calling upon a standard and objective standard that is both exe. Eternal to him and external to god and demanding that god adhere to that. andrew meaning that the standard and what god was planning to do are different and he forces guard to change the plan. To fit a standard, and I will draw you didn't go away. He gave him a chance to exact words. Very sober, deliberate, but the point being is: is that more all? That is that to me as proof of natural law. Yes, I have no issue with that. But it doesn't mean that is objectively real. If there's, no god, I believe, god put conscience in human being, This is how I look in a nutshell. What happened? God wants us to be good though, he starts out by giving us a conscience, it states blown very quickly in kills abel

god realises the human being is a really flawed creature. Next, then, god gives a series of universal laws, the Jews then say their seven laws, it doesn't matter it's not not to murder not to, the blood of a living animal, meaning you can't rip off and limb of animal the steel not to commit adultery. There's some basic universal. That doesn't work, so god has the grants. Third, way of making the world decent was to give a home body of law to one people have them try to live by it spread it the model of it and that was called the some people that thou. That was his third attempt by the way for christians is a fourth attempt that

didn't work either for the christian and by the way, this does a lot of merit to that argument, and so now god comes down in human form and- and it offers with us and they look as is a lot. I respect and christianity. Obviously- and it It had a tremendous appeal by the weight muscle. Muslims then say that didn't work. The world was still lousy, so there's a fifth try, mohammed and norman say this, a six try, Joseph smith. So so it's a fascinating every religion is ultimately acknowledging. Well, it hasn't work that well till now put this one will work so good. I look. I want there to be moral olympics arena. We produce better people than you. I wish we had such a thing in this world, so I have no doubt there is a built in conscience. You, made the ten commandments to know. Murder is wrong, but you mean to believe that, and by the way natural law is dependent upon god, natural,

What is nature is god that's in the end in the in the the declaration of independence, not just nature nature is? God it without god, there's, no such thing as natural law. I know some secularists can argue all they want. No though there is, but that's a leap of faith, I'll, say my god is a leap of faith to fine, but at least that's all acknowledge if there god it does make morality absolute. There are moral fact. If there is No god there are moral opinions. So you what you are saying This is that there is natural law, because god created at a german, does not believe in god. Cannot then But I still believe in natural, oh sure they can they I can say, is that I believe that its that's all that's correct, very interesting. Also idle.

think it works. In the final analysis, I my poor, but not terrible it, but middling analogy, is if there were signs on the road speed limit. Whatever You naturally think proper That's how I would I would look at the no god with natural law. I love that, oh good, so maybe wasn't middling? It really was a good, an ok. Last question. You know Is it greater? We should really bring thinkers like her to ask me questions, because it's a great it's a it's. How I look. This is a special special time with you. I gotta say: okay yeah, I'm sad.

I forget, when you said, does it think it was recently that it would be? Your word was paradoxical sickle if the liberal states would succeed now. I guess I understand that you think that the left is the greatest threat to america and we can debate that for sure. But my question is this like? Actually, this is a question I have for a lot of christians as well like in it as a jew. Like I, in that way. You know debate it. There's no knowledge without debate. They dont debate if they the baby- and I wouldn't saying this that you are going to say he said my dress, the subjects, but that's all that would be awesome. I have offered thousand dollars, which means nothing to these people. I am sure, but if they,

What more I'll raise it I mean new york times left wing columnist, which is ninety nine percent of them to the big me publicly anywhere in the three all fly where they want to go. I do it in their living room. They will for debate us? They dont debate us. We want them, more programmes, they don't want us on their programmes. I would any major leftist come on. My show that I'm saying when you say will be paradise to get rid of them. Does it don't you why leftist in your paradise, just to keep you honest like just to know, I want liberals and more paradise left a circle of purely destructive. There is no good site lifted. It suppresses freedom everywhere. If it gets power, there was no exception. To that it suppresses free speech is a bad thing left.

liberalism is a beautiful thing, but liberals are weak and they vote left, which some Jews, for example, who are used to vote Democrat now I really know- and I know you're making fun of me. If I were you- I not building site. I want to say I too am very dismayed at the kind of the wall capture of much of the jewish can legally no oil out the duchess. That's another issue, but the only thing you I do well it's very simple: the jews who believe the tourists from god or conservative the jews who don't are overwhelmingly leftist. It's a simple. When jewels leave a divine scripture, they become fools, sometimes very sweet fools. But but but fools that's what it's about its divine scripture. That is the dividing line. If It-

christianity to the christians, who believe came to believe that men wrote the whole bible, they drifted off into leftism those method. Still congregate. Analysts those those presbyterians those episcopalians. It's the exact same thing happened in need of divine scripture to stay real, There is a woman who wrote a book. I forget her name now, she's, basically trying to break. Our reform movement to evangelical christianity, she sort of opposed to the idea that there is a hierarchy. The husband is the head of the household, that women can be in positions of leadership and she's, actually very effectively sort of. you know marshaling support for a kind of reform or revolution, and I I was interviewing her for a podcast we had at newsweek and I said to her. I feel like I'm, like the ghost of christmas future coming to you and saying, listen, bad things.

Totally understand where you're coming from. I grew up in a very patriarchal society in a very orthodox system, eddie, where women were, you know always subordinate to men. At some level I didn't have the same. Education is man. I wasn't taken syria, we infer a woman who, like me, was sort of a finger, and you know that was very difficult. I hated sitting behind that. The partition I felt like I was dehumanizing, etc, etc. But you know I feel, like you know, having experts brains. First of all, liberal streams of judaism, but also I can tell you one thing What we learned from the reform movement is this. I dont want this to be true The truth of the matter is, as I can tell you with ninety five percent certainty, if your grandchildren and be jewish based on whether or not there is a second creation between men and women in your synagogue. You know, there's something about these reforms that I dont know why it is but the threat to the traditional thing that seems like it so tangential.

whether you have a separation between men and women. Why should that matter? But you get of that and a lot of things start to crumble, along the way, and I think that something you know that I really learned you know growing up. As you know, there's a reverence that conservative men have for the woman as the hearth, the women and men as the home. Yes for that position. Indeed, the woman as woman, the woman. as a woman, yeah war, that more than this reformer adults hurt. She doesn't really think the difference between men and women, but if you think there's no, prince between men and women. You dont revere either of them. The whole point is that their differences, what makes them reversible I feel the conflicted about it. My god you are your conflict is totally legitimate. I would not have it by a state

please go away. It's right. I wouldn't there's no perfect answer that thursday. Just just as I said about the people who aren't going to make enough money. Even though you, you think it'd be ideal if the in the mum stayed full time to take care of the home, which is the ideal, in my opinion, except in the case of the women who work at Prager. U really, because they could bring their babies here and elsewhere. Care will be there and I'm thinking of what a perfect day he was due in a month or two bugs anyway, haven't gotten that off my chest

you know there are no were perfect answers. The I remember debate, this issue in jewish life, when they were talking but redeeming women is rabbis. I was not a supporter Even though I have no problem turning a synagogue. If, if the rabbi is a woman and she's wonderful, but their none of their arguments, the equality, one of em, Everybody knows a woman's brain is as good as a man's brains, no often better. So a that's, not the issue, the rat. I figure is not just the brain there. Aren't you in tat. It will attract young women to synagogue. I knew was nonsense. I knew it in advance. I like I saw the future reform, judy judaism is in rapid decline, concern if judaism is virtually disappearing and they both ordained women and they attracted no women to the synagogue they.

Acted no men to the synagogue, because boys need he's been really he's been here a long time. You say goodbye to you know: he's he's meandering out at the door. This is really the he's really arrive that that was. That that was eight. That was classical liberal dreaming all will girls really need a rabbinic model. That's not true. He's an girls need a male rabbinic model. There are different rules, all in this world for men and women. And by the way, if the orthodox start ordaining women, the same thing will happen. It will drift into the second we're culture which I think modern I said oxy is already have is already beginning on debating a rabbi very very soon an orthodox rabbi, modern or who says people are basically good. That is the antithesis.

the torrent the literal antithesis. Secular, secular people at at princeton believe that, but but What he's modern orthodox and he, it's accepted a very, very a modern ma earn secular, believe from the age of age of the enlightenment, so there there were no. There are no perfect answers. That is why I am at peace with with sit with my the marks, a jewish friends. They look one of my sons orthodox and he, says tat. I love. I love your judaism. He grew up with it. I wish extremely serious judaism, but not fully orthodox in practice. But he said this. Such community am, I David! You are entirely right. If you will the community, and you should you have to be orthodox, that's correct! I. I fully acknowledge that fact.

if I could live another hundred years, I could create a community of Jews who live the way, I do. I do believe, but I'm not live another hundred years, so it it just is. It is the way it is, but I accept the count predictions of life and by the way it's it's that to me The lesson of abraham, arguing with god to get back to your great story is Another reason, my soul of the Torah. You can argue with god. Do you know that interesting, strange, really know their bible, but even many christians, dont remember Israel means struggle with god, fight with god that that the torrent, not only allows but encourages me to argue with god is another reason.

I love the tourists so much that this will send truly heretical too many people listening I love the Torah more than I love god, and the Torah is my vehicle to loving god and believing in god and though don't believe in the Torah, because I believe in god I believe in god, because I believe in the Torah that that is how That is why my commentary has touched a lot of life. I am so intellectually and emotionally committed to those five books that I look I acknowledged, I don't find it easy to love god. This too much pain in this world built in, and it's just hard for me to do that, I I revere god, I obey god. I respect god, but

I wrote in an essay, I dunno. If you ever saw my essay- and I don't ever say this to guests, but I'm so touched at how much you know of what I've said or written. But you would love the I wrote and I say that the most difficult more in the bible is to love god with all your heart. And you know what I conclude. It makes god lovable that he knows he's not lovable that sound well there well you're, good sahara, people review fine, you see you, I want to promote, be what what what what they do well. Last time you had me on your show, my book sales went through the roof, so use

to have magic, and that, apart from that, I always look hearing that I am still pay offers look at where you are on amazon today about what is the book. My book is called bad news. How woke media is undermining democracy and its about how the media got woke, and I argue in the book that that was actually about class. It looks like a story about re, sir, about politics are about trump, but it's not it's about class. You know journalists used to be working class and over the course of the twentyth century they became part of the elite. And, as banks should have left, you know working class neighbourhoods and wife and started to live next. A corporate lawyers and accountants and doctors they abandon the working poor. as of all races of always races with the most devastating impact on the black community and I just a history of of american journalism, how it got so bad. So what is the name again, it's called bad news,

woke me undermining democracy news, and you told me that I should do an audio, Version and the audio book is out today, so it's available on audio about now. did you read it? I did yes. Oh, I'm delighted, and what, you do at newsweek, I'm they dec, the opinion engineering, meaning that every day I solicit two or three our beds from people across the political spectrum across the racial spectrum across the religious spectrum, trying to get the most interesting take on the big stories of the day in the news to really represent american life. Shoe you, europe right, they lose weak. I Wait for other publications. I I I write for the daily mail, sometimes for the new york post. I write for spiked, which is a great

if possible. Yes, I know well yeah, that's nice, but what is your husband do? He's a dentist dear free dental care? Now he won't see me. He says: I'm a bad patient. No you're right. That is whole larry, and why are you patiently his user? While because when you get the thing that keeps you in Dentist chair, while they're doing such unpleasant things two year rising out of the little bit afraid of them and when your husband you're not a little bit afraid of him, so all sure you're just I don't know why you should be able to intimidate your best bet. It's about a dentist role. I and so you know, listen he's. My book is dedicated to him because, as I wrote in the dedication of edo rea who v as they're connected d, you know Adam and eve as described in the bible as an as their connect, do a help meet against him.

It's a very interesting. I know I do that, a lot of my commentary, and what, though commentators say is that you know you need an adversary in Europe? but still the help make exactly know. That's exactly. love is out, are used for my dedication to my wife and my file volumes. That's that's the quota use and beg it not only means against, but it also means equal to yes, so it it's actually a helpmate who is his equal, which sounds self contradictory, but it isn't that that's the beauty of of of of the wifely role in in a in a in a good marriage. His equal and has helped me well you're a joy. Thank you so much for having its really really and honour to talk to you well which mutual. What can I say? I hope we do it again. Me too,

all right, everybody. If you did enjoy this. A variety of fireside chats was It was really a great time I'll see you next week. Thank you for watching this rio to keep Prager you videos free, please consider making a tax deductible donation.