The hi, my name's Dave grohl, and I feel I feel good about being comments friend that feels like a qualified, good yeah. I'm still unsure hello, I'm chris and have a solid and I feel jazzy about being conan. O'brien's sprint. Yes, see no pause, no anxiety, just joy, sir. My name is Steve Albini and I feel anxiety about being Conan O'Brien's friend. You can feel that it's palpable and not uncommon, I'm sure the hey welcome

Canada Brian needs a friend of course, usually there's a lot of nonsensical noble babble at the top of the podcast cast today. Isn't time for that. This is a very special episode recently I had this very cool opportunity to fly to chicago and sit down and chat with VON a member's dave, grow and snow research along, producer audio engineer, Steve albini, so that we could talk about the making of the classic album in utero, which came out through, years ago in September nineteen. Ninety three, I'm but his time very well, because I was launching my late night show and tea in utero music was really the soundtrack too, that crazy time in my life, so was really cool. Guess today, sat with me and we chatted about this very important record. We

I heard a lot of ground, including what it was like to deal with the pressures of suddenly being the number one rock band in the world, how they could follow up the spected massive success of their album, never mind and and Chris also shared some memories of their friend and ban made europe on his creative leader, Kurt Tobin. So let's listen in this is an honor. Thank you very much for gathering here. It's the thirtieth first rate of in utero. And it's my first question for the three of you was: does it feel Like thirty years, while it's you know, there's the time component temporal right and I I just

When I look back, I think there's somebody who's missing. Here is a person that should be here right now and the turco baines not here, and so you know just facing now young and looking back at that time, I mean it was great time to make the record

I had a good time and we are really productive and I was like the glue that kept the band together was just we really like to play together. We play well together and we need it. I didn't understand. This is absolute culture, and all of this is staying in. So Chris, not aside wash just went out what the fuck were. You can't keep his phone. Ok girl, your next. What did you what's on you right now? I'm sorry, I didn't understand. Yeah, hey siri, answer, cronan square. Why didn't? How little the crew in two thousand and one oddity it feels like just yesterday, that we recorded be grave siri, had a really good perky ads so You were saying rudely interrupted by a computer. I should have just had the ice futile yeah, but so I mean- get tell stories about the record

Can we made it? It was a good time. Are you here in this house in granite falls Minnesota an involuntary involves. Camouflage. Thank you. I stand. Theory were sorry granted falls where rocky and bullwinkle, or from probably will pursue that Gaza later and boris yeah They have a very clear memory of this I'm coming out because I had theirs. I think three day difference between when in utero drops and when start. My late night television show the music the album? such a huge fan being such a background music to the terror and the weirdness of me, starting a late night, show from complete obscurity in nineteen. Ninety three, so that some to the nirvana experience. I would imagine that you know at the time we were when the ban became popular

in ninety ninety one we were so young yeah. I think I was twenty one. Twenty two and you might have been twenty five or something, but we were. We were your camera heads- and so you know when you talk about the of time. That's gone by to me: it's not even- so much about the The years it's about the sperience. Is that just kind of lead one after another, going from three kids that were basically living rhetorical van becoming a huge band and then in utero becoming sir. The uncomfortable soundtrack too, that sort of transition by ninety ninety two. Ninety, ninety three, we were living in a different world than we were I just sixteen months before or you know I was thinking about it today and I was thinking the only way that you can understand. The making of in utero is to understand where you were at that time. The only way to understand that is to start with, never mind

which had its govern records, modest expectations by the record labour. this. I think they were going to be very happy if you sold two hundred and fifty thousand units they printed. Fifty thousand units of the series fifty thousand three thousand thinking that should do it and if we have to make more, we will. I too to some one who was working at given at the time. They said when never mind het answer to blow up and then we blow up at one point. They had to stop me, king and manufacturing all of the others. Days, for the artists on their label and turn them all over to make never mind which sounds like some. That just doesn't happen. It was completely unprecedented, and so that's good news, but with that comes all kinds of bullshit what any mention time, conan and so like personally,

I was thirty years ago, but that time from when never mind, released and incur died? What happened in that? Span of time feels like it was ten years. It was of so much goes. There is so much intense yeah yeah. I was just thinking like enough for me. it took my entire childhood to prepare me for adolescence right and then it took my entire. The lessons and young adulthood prepare me for or being gainfully employed and independent as it as a person right so If you have a long runway for like the maid stages in in your life and like nirvana, went from being couch surfers to being the biggest band ever in the world in a span of about eighteen months, something like that, like I can't find the kind of whiplash in every part of your life like you, go from being for having normal relationships with normal people who see you Who is another normal person to every time you

how can a room everybody's mouth just drops open? In your view, like the sun instantly you're the centre of attention, everyone has like expectations and questions and demands, and they want to attach themselves to you, like everything, changes just from being a normal schmuck to being this like intensely public figure on whom, other people have laid incredible expectations and on whom other people are like literally dependent their careers, are dependent on you were behaviour and your whims, and so now I feel like they have to marshal that they have to like participate yeah how you are as a person because of their self interest. It's like this, like uniquely perversely capitalist, notion and suddenly you guys are responsible for in industry and the thing occurs to me is that fame money.

success is great news for a lot of artists in the business love music artists. If you come from the punk, world and you are religious adherence to the punk ethos which you guys were and curt was successes. Tricky cause? If somebody artists, if they make a lot of money, go out, get That way? You know Jesus the the b we were very comfortable going out and getting rolls royce and pay was either that or pay ninety percent taxes right right. Ok! Well, that's a good point. I hadn't thought of that. And we're gonna do a second one. We get into taxation, but what I wanted to point out was there's a whole cold rob yea. We made it, we throw money around. There's also a shame and a trap that sat if you're part of the punk ethos? Isn't there I want this is something that I have run into over and over and over again is people outside the music seen people who are not banned members, not musicians, not part of the culture of punk at all

griping to punk This notion that success is bad, and this notion that, if you are successful, you are somehow bad and evil and that it is that we don't want people to become successful, I have never experienced that genuinely from anybody in any anyone in the in the punk seen that wasn't purely a jealousy expert, an expression of jail, right on the whole nirvana fans wanted nirvana to become successful and sis self sustaining and be. So I just wanted to clear the air and say like that: it like there was no animosity toward nevada nirvana, not an honest efforts and I'm talking about the band itself. So you know before we made the record, never mind. We were pretty much living in squalor. So I was living with her and this tiny little apartment and there were just corned argh sticks and cigarettes all over the place, and it is these fucking disgusting. Yes,

I would have done anything had tat, my own apartment you know like in and to be able to do that to making music. I noted that the transition happened really quickly, but it didn't happen. You didn't just wind up with a million dollars in your mailbox the next day it went from being like the pretty and when two fifteen dollars a day, the oh, my god I mean I can get pack of cigarettes or whatever, and then I went this could possibly get better. Like exactly that's my ass resting in a motel. You know I'm sherry room, a curt or whatever, but it's not summons floor and then just want and then from cept bert december's can. Anyone is whenever thing really blew up and am I didn't, feel conflicted or any guilt or shame in knowing like? Oh, I just I just paid off my mother's house yeah I bought my the car or- and now I can afford to you- know, buy a new pair of shoes or whatever it was. I didn't and

the reason why I I I personally didn't fields, conflicted about? Everything was because I knew that the band hadn't done anything outside of r r r are true. selves didn t get there, but we just did the thing that we did and then it happened and so the damage my experience after and then I and then I got to get to move in with another friend and how house- and I remember it's funny dogma. Family. Remember that fucking weird! yugoslavian car. You bought. Did you only you go no one! Now what was it didn't you get some car, then you bite some car. That was like this tiny thing. Oh the renault dauphine gave it to me. Oh right, wait. That was your rock star moment. I gave you. I know dolphin sounds like a shoe more than a car. I barely fit in it. I got it running pretty good, but yeah I mean. Of course we didn't go straight to the bentleys and stuff like that, but I mean it I've I

I was very happy to have finally been able to really support myself as a musician. Now there The thing that I love to do there is- and this is what's getting us towards in utero- is there is a lot of stuff that comes with being the the number one rock band? Suddenly there's all this tabloid noise in curtain call these life, that's creating of drama and then the the thing that starts to creep in his head dissatisfaction with never mind being you slick and Now. A word is like this at Curtis out. You don't have to ask him about that as he hurt I don't care if he was, he entered the we were talking about just like the pressure being the sudden, fame and incurred. Had he got more attention because he was out for yeah. Ok, so then he felt more pressure. Ok then yeah, he said, to do heroin and not he loved drugs and is a price for that and that complicated things lot

remember dave, and I wish it was seen in the rehab using rehab and, how you doing it was good, so good to see him and he was doing right and he goes. You know that Steve Jones came to visit me and he didn't to do that I mean that was really. Nice is from the sex pistol journal just and we're like. What's he like? Could he was wearing bert in stocks. Yeah talk about a fuckin seller hours for their vessels. Pistols was workers, dogs yeah. But re up, so he went to the agree, have to see you didn't have to do. That was nice study. That was an item. That is so you know the with that stuff. I mean there's that nonsense. If I were you guys, because I know kurt was very vocal about thinking that never mind. Yes huge hit, but he thought the production was too slick and tat is

something that he said at the time. He may have changed his mind about that later on. Had he lived and must have been like nineteen. Eighty nine. Ninety. Ninety one cruising in this van and I think we have seen a surfer, rosa and then kurt was sitting there in a charity raises fingered makes a decree because This should be our snare, sound seafarers the pixies visa rosy also goggles nearby at yours. Truly, I didn't you in that stood there. You go that we ended up in working steve so that what this is it that you know what I think I think, as you retarding earlier, about feeling I'm the trouble with this new world of nirvana, fame and stuff, like that, I think that when things did become she which that we all sort of treated and sir clung to the who's that we felt most attached to it. Whether it was weird

old cars or going back to virginia or whatever it may have been for correct, but always musically. I think that whether it was Kurt feeling like never mind, may have been over to produce or to a reproduced or something we had always listen to records steve had made. I remember when I first moved in with Kurt, I think he's only four records it was like. We were hit it mark, flanagan record, therefore Rosa there's. A breeders pod, and the Jesus lizard record, and that was just a sound that we felt most though we love and I think we have probably wanted to work with steve before we made never mind, but we wind up making with buch am who if you have said, is an online yeah, but butch butch vague as the producer and never mind an end. You know you're. Bringing up is that kind of in the background, all along there. Was this sound that debt steve

binney was getting with pixies with the breeders that speed She guys- and so my question for for you guys, is what is that sound o catch? The snare? Is it? Is it the recording of the drums or is it something bigger than that? As the collector sound of all of those things were not one seems to be a kind of front of the other two made always sounds really centered, where at sight, vocal isn't jumping ahead of everything else, or things are like riding up and down. It sounds like the sound of a group in in the space and really just natural. You know I mean I think who was it that would talk about distance recording that even the iraq war he asked I like how better discipline is vague here. I am privileged to ratify this right, and so, if you listen to a lot of the drum sounds with steve stuff, there is sort of this sense of distance away.

that gives the sound more depth none. But I think in and correct me if I'm wrong, but but steve, it felt, like you what you were going form. What you are about was you wanted, band sound like the band you madame de sound like this, how they sound when they in a room and there together and something real, is happening. You you dont, want all that separation. You dont want double tracking you don't want a lot of father rollin nonsense. Look there is I mean. There's seems to be set at setting up as a kind of a compare and contrast between me and but vague and advice. I should point out the birch rigs production, aesthetic and his approach as an engineer was like formed in precisely the same way that mine was doing budget records for dedbroke bands, in a short amount of time like trying to be as efficient as possible with with not just with the time,

but with the materials and like you're, hitting your snare drumhead so hard we're gonna have to buy a new snare. Drumhead head like. Let me let me put some gaffer on. There are something to keep so that we not split the dread snare drumhead that his. that, and his techniques are very much in the same school is mine. The thing that I remember most about the nirvana butch connection is it when we got to the studio to start work, on the. in utero, album Kurt had a cassette of the rough makes that bush had given him of the nevermind sessions that wasn't the finished album was in the stores, it was the cosette of of the tracks that bush had done without any way fanciful mixing with me like yeah yeah, just like these are the tracks and he played that to get familiar with the sound of the studio. He played it through the speakers and I thought it sounded fuckin fantastic. Do you guys know? What do you remember that? No, I thought it sounded. Fucking great and I remember. Forgive me

I dont, remember, hearing than the never mind album and thinking that this sounds fucking great. It didn't bring to mind any of the records that bush had done, that I was familiar with that were there that made his reputation and probably made nirvana wanna work with him in the first place, so to be fair to just go back to A time never mind is out there there, the biggest ban in the world there looking to make the follow up album at that time, What did you were you a fan, if you a fan of nirvana, I wasn't super familiar with nirvana. I had heard like the ubiquitous stuff that everyone that was being played on the radio and all the clubs and like every gig you'd, go to as you were, loading in the sound guy. But never mind onto crank the p and balanced appear So I had heard the album many times sort of second hand right. I wasn't a student of nirvana. If I had ever seen and play alive, I'm certain I would become a fan, so the decision is made. We would like, see well be need to produce a record, and most people

Oh, I think anyone else on the planet in that position would have said. Please please please, please, please, and you write this letter when you find out that therein, instead and this letter is not a please hire me later, that's a great letter so, but it is, it is aid I'll do it, but here my conditions, the latter loans is really which is important principle. This somehow gonna theorem, for, if it is, it really is a it's. A bit of a screen about what you believe, and I do this. If you do it on my terms and if you're willing to do it, and then you see Can we say I'm not taking points on this record. I dont want to do that. He said I want to be paid like a plumber. Just give me some money up front, but you thought it was immoral to get points in the record. Yeah I mean the way that record producers

recording people are compensated in at that time, in particular, was a trick of accounting that shifted the cost away from the label and toward the band made the band ultimately responsible for whatever the producer got paid, and it did come out of the general proceeds of the record. The way in an independent labels contract, for example, it came specifically out of the money that would otherwise have gone to the band like literally every dollar I would get paid would mean that was a dollar that David and get or chris didn't get or curtain get. I mean, that's just the way that that's the way the accounting works in those kinds of deals and I've. I think that's ethically untenable. I dont. I am. I I'll admit that I think less of people who opt to do things that way. I think it's on its face it's absurd leah. I work on a record for a few days,

and then for the rest of your fuckin life. You have to keep paying. He like you, get me and give me a chip off of every nickel that I talk to my agent and my manager. If you would do speaking about this letter, rare specifically the letter, a sort of acquired it and notoriety that's on, because it was included in the rear, some of the reissue materials and it was sort of for the four time the general public got to read this correspondence rang. What happened was that I had several phone conversations with kurt about the prospect me work on record and we talk all of this stuff through, like so some of the things in their that sound kind of flip enter sound like I'm being kind of brusque, that's based conversational awareness between me and cart, will you guys, united, that yup, Steve steve? Is the guy and were united were united in this new direction.

down leaner to do in utero. Was that, like you felt, like all three of you were united in that idea, You know it's funny. We were in between my guess. It might have been maintained. Eighty two, when we went down to Brazil, we have that week off in brazil, oh yeah, we am we're plan it was called the hollywood rock festival in rio and Sao Paulo. So there are two shows one weekend in rio won his spot and then we had a whole week off in between and we had nothing to do so. We found this studio that I think belonged to. The record company has record company that caters is nestled near borden here, you're not doing anything. So we set up our gear and just started fucking around, maybe two or three days, and am, I think, maybe I could add some rifts in some things here and there a lot of it was just jamming, but it was. It was great because it was just the

three of us in this room with nothing but time to fuck around and no one to tell us what or to do or how to do it, and I I think that that was kind of the beginning of the vibe coming the record receive like there was that were really I room. There is berets the basement with his like ebay at my house and my basement tat, and it was launched a look washer and drier there and we set up, and we just we did this. improvisation. Songs again, I think that a lot of this was meant, as some sort of return to us feeling like we still own our selves we own still the same. People were still the same band and were not to be changed by all the other crazy bullshit, and we felt most comfortable doing it like that. It's funny I, having been in the providers now for so long. When I think about me in Havana. It was just when we got in to play music, it was so fucking simple. There was all of that other.

complication just disappeared literally, like put my jobs in the back of my car. Go to christs ass then go to the basement. and put it in there and start playing, even though people considers to be this giant band, we still function. and, as we have always had when it came making music, so I think that's I think the brazil stuff is really that's where I started to get a vibe or feel what was going to happen when we went to record the state, but are considered by demos in the magic. Was that the three of you guys is working together and being really interfered with that much and so you have this weird trip to south america were accidentally you get to reconnect with that, which is. Amazing, and then you think. Ok, we think we we think we know the guy who can do this and that access to the studio. We record this, which is fifty miles south of

the apple yeah. I had been there a couple of times already, but also I have a question. Yeah got this studio, it's called packet, Amsterdam. It was amazing with the house's beautiful it was like a frank, lloyd right. Looking thing, I have indoors evening brainy lunch house, let the reader bunch us but length kind of like my life, I am crazy or was this place own some kid that inherited a bunch of money from his rich family. Yes, Rich family was the family that invented that smoked brown plaster. Desk. Organize ask organizer. Yes, the story, you're relaying is one hundred true. They don't want to make that up. I thought Steve made it up and told it to me, so I want to set the picture for p because one of you, I don't know It- was described it as a gulag, meaning you go, and they get it guys, reading sojourn reading solzhenitsyn life is walking through the gulag and he can hear the snow crunch beneath his boots yeah beneath, boots in and in it it it's like

you know us an ancient soviet detention centre, but a lot of it, makes sense, region and or swimming pool with an inverted was nigh, which a lot of good eggs had to be aware that the nice regal likes had it but see that some of you are offering them a sensory deprivation. Tag saying well come to this man of know where you were booked because your huge stars number one ban and the world your booked as the Simon richie group, there was a general concern about kurt having a relapse, so they didn't want to be in an urban setting? that had another layer of concern which Is that like why even tell them that nirvana is coming to their studio, because even if on One person tells one person that one person is gonna tell for sure one person and that one person as for sure gonna tell a hundred people and before you know it, there's gonna be a fuck news truck and a bunch of teenagers outside this studio, no matter where it is right and we

got away with it for a kind of a long time ago is, I think, the end of the first week. some local kid showed up at the front door because he saw occurred at the supermarket or some I am a snowmobile yeah yeah, but we got away with it like the the studio. Didn't know that nirvana was coming to record at their studio. I booked it under my name. I'd done a bunch of sessions. There, like I said, and I told him yes could the Simon ritchie group, it's a country and western outfit and a lot of things were sort of tactical like Kurt didn't have to be handled with lit with mittens like it wasn't like, was like on the verge of relapse every second, it was just anyone. That's enough cover ie there and add it to right up to the point of it here in this very remote location and at the end of your letter you say: p ass. If a record takes more than a week to make somebody's fucking up so you're either was, I want to get this band in a room and let them play, and I will place the mike's

I will do it. I I will do my job, but I want to really capture this band live and that experience of seeing nirvana show up and play for you. You know live so how did you feel when you first saw them play? I wanted was for them to go into a studio and behave normally, you don't have to sit there in a room by yourself playing to click track. You get to play with your band around you. Like always, you know we don't have to reply. Is everything with a microscope and tweezers? You can just play like a band right did behave normally have the normal experience. That is the thing that got: u animated about music and about achieving the diverse ways. Yet exactly you got had had some down time and the impression I get from everything I've read. Never one I've talked to is that you came into the in utero experience ready ago with a real sense of purpose

an playing really fucking well. Is that does that feel right, accurate description, I think so. The first thing we did was served the servants and then we admit. stephen and set up in then? I remember steve to standing by the that big studio tape, machine and interest he's. He hits record and he's got his arms cross he's watching us and we now, the song out in one take were like. Oh, that was the keeper literally. The first thing recorded in the session is the first song on the album, as recorded. What's amazing is a lot of the songs were dining in a tiger too takes, but there's a there's, a thing that like and far none of the train spotters have mentioned this side. I dont know if it's generally known, but the the song there's like a quiet bit of the song and then it kicks in full anti and we had done a sound check of the instruments before they did the take, but

full monti was kurt, kicked on overdrive pedal, which he hadn't used in the soundtrack. So when the first loud bit comes in the guitars were pinning on that. Machine like he was about sixty be hotter than proper for the session right. I immediately grabbed those channels and ran Adam back so the first beat of the loud part the tape machine is slightly over driving and those channels or in the red, and it's a bad engineering on my part. But you know by the second or third b. it was back to normal. So, but there is this moment there's this like slightly like you blame him yeah. You cottage You know right, couch guy, just like a downer, he did you know, but non conventional in the conventional setting. Just the fact that we went over on that, first be just the fact that it was the first run through just the fact that their there was this potential.

Scar would be enough to say are right. Well, it's that lets you it again lead you know it. Let's do it was nice for first take, let's try it again, but everybody heard and on play back- and I mentioned it- I said you know, there's an overload here on this first beat because I wasn't prepared for the overdrive in it and you know back, got it in line, but everybody her to play back was like me, that's fine and so It's on the record now, which is this the sort of thing in that you know, when you're working and in budget conditions and like sort of grubby studio sessions, that shit happens all I'm new to live with it, but for a band of theirs, at and of their rights? sources to be able to say, let's go ahead and use the first take just because it sounds fine, we're in we're not that picky. I think I thought that was a remarkable play never mind. I think was two months. Maybe too egg, and in utero is never mind was like twelve days are, for team. Was it forty days? I thought it was really quick, really

according to the act of according ass it, but then its nose and the next and the next thing in everything that I mean I think soup tonight's we were utero is still half week saw three weeks. If we had been a little bit more efficient, we could even out the door and twelve days, but I think that we were done in fourteen priorities So because we were looking for that kind of proof whence and we were looking for that kind of recording and most of the takes were maybe one or two tags or something we done with the drums and I think, the basic tracks, jackson, what three These are three or four days three or four days so that me, with a good week sitting around doing fucking nothing. in that house the shining watching those David Attenborough, yet you say things like that way. Why you watching David and whereas it was your nothing else to do, there is a rare streaming. This is a different. I would do their fireplace. I would start fires manner and I would do the fireplace

very primordial. The primordial activities of a man tending the fire is very shiny. It it's very shining, yeah. Ok, you mentioned it, so I can bring it up. You say tending fires. There is also some pie romania happening during. making of in india oh and I don't know if this was it is. This was something that you guys pick them rise, would play with fuck lighter fluid yeah. What's up but that was what I learned. India is every leanings. All energy is a cleaning solvent. It was useless to you to clean the tape, heads and clean clean equipment stuff, it's a very pure alcohol there runs off, so you can see like

You can put it on your hand and set your hand on fire. Like oh look, I'm you know I'm the human torch, but that's fire whatever, and so he has them here. I've brought some in we're going to all douse ourselves with it, and you know you get bored with setting regular things on fire, and then you start setting other people on fire and stuff. You know what what what kind of things are you setting on fire? Did you my ass? I think you lit a cigar off of my ass yeah. That was while that was on fire. Was there any how long as your ass on fire, for which the amount of time well long enough to light a cigar so that at least ten seconds for somebody to take a picture yeah? Okay? Did you ever smell anything cooking? Just hot tracks. No, I think that the army around the middle of nowhere with nothing to do not things that thing you light things on fire. There were also prank phone calls

eve. Had this a realistic like remember, radio, shack and was that it was a microphone like you can stick on a phone, the to form part of your own leave ever the receiver for order I still have it. I you have some recordings. You can record off the phone like cosette, brought back I've done some research and like next immigration and gotten rid of these tapes. You guys praying Gene simmons yeah, I believe at one of kiss fame. That's my favorite one deserves pranking by the favorite one I dunno if you've ever spoken to june. Seventh is yes that was my favorite. He says: well, I love melvin, so yeah he does does he sounds just like Jackie mason yeah. He he was on my show once and all he did was sell merchandise and I kept trying to get him to tell interesting stories and he'd say we'll get to that in the foot. But first

They go in and he'd say the kiss coffin and he had a kiss coffin that he was selling, but absolutely true. I pretended to be kurt calling Jeanne simmons genes, him and said reached out to purging simmons had all their management, because there was a kiss tribute album being put together and nirvana. The biggest ban in the world were friends with them evans and amendments that a kiss cover and he assumed that no nirvana would want to do a kiss cover to be on the gene. Simmons cannot it fell them that anyone on earth is not an massive kiss fan right. I'm going to say this: a healthy ego and gene if you're listening. This is a good thing to have when I was like twelve years old to like maybe fourteen, I was huge and a kiss yeah. And she was my favorite. in iran, I have recorded Oh god, I was a disaster. When did you record? We were drawn, you love me. We were wrong,

well, as our drinks are needed to recorded pisang. Sometimes it's in a word comes down that gene summonses, desperate to get nirvana on this album and curt is like. I don't wanna talk to fuckin genes, him. As I said, I shall do so. I called them. I call them called him back and I pretended to be Kurt and I parried the whole thing away by saying that I wasn't making all the decisions, because I had a reliability problem so you're in a you talking directly to jean yeah as her and Jean thinks he's talking to Kurt yeah and Kurt is sitting right next to me. Listening to me do an impression of him. He do a really good career. Can we hear just a second of you talking to gene was inter's. I get a secret giggling denote, do do you know, wipers. I really love the wipers. Do you know the wipers and then jean simmons comes back with add another wiper opens alone. I don't know what we're all about woods

you call. I love this one. You call Evan dando, no, even better, Evan dandy there someone I may Evan dando tour party, who is a friend of nirvana and head phone number four. studio and called from a high tell in australia a direct call from a hotel in Austria, probably the most expensive, fucking phone call it you could make right right, builds to the to the room, haven't anders like footing the bill for the most expensive direct call on earth, and why we did was we somehow. We convinced that guy found Evan and convinced him that Madonna's personal assistant had found had track

im down, yes at the hotel in australia and wanted to talk to him. That's it that's the whole. That's the whole context so evidently thinks he's on hold waiting for madonna right and every few minutes. I would get back on the phone and say she asked me to place the call she's still busy. Can you can you wait a little bit longer and I had some absurd accent that I thought Madonna's assistant would have know and and now madonna has and then he's just like yeah, of course, yeah sure I'll, wait, yeah of course, and so hurl silence for men on end on this and then the sight of him exasperated lee like telling everyone around him like I'm I'm on old, for madonna, you know and he's paying for the whole thing sure, because it was actually the call actually one hundred thousand our prank phone call yeah. and ass. I am dollars eddie better think was a prank called any better at some point yeah. I don't remember why that when I was me as well, I don't remember why we did that one, because I don't

We know you guys weren't, like fighting, refuting with no no, no, and I do member, getting him on the phone and telling him I pretended? tony the scanty regularly every areas and by the way, you're supposed to be the adult in the row. I remember now, I'm gonna get it roused me you're in charge errand, your lighting, your lighting, artists on fire, you land and and and prank calling so but there's more guys, I'm producing gave something. I can't remember what was my camera the context for those like I'm here at the black crow there's something I had some bolgia band, that I claim that I was with and then and they were playing me your record. I I wanna get you the studio with a real band, guys you're gonna play has been. Did he get me I say are now yet it will. You have these you're going to get to put these out yeah. I don't I don't. I genuinely don't remember the the banter, but I do remember. I think he I thought he handled it. Pretty deftly acquitted himself well like talking on the phone to

I have a scanty record producer who wanted to fire his band. Do you say at one point you say it he goes. Where were you I'm in manitoba Do you know where that is Islam particles? yeah. Oh, please, put these out. You'll get the releases I'll take I'll, take care of the legal end of it. Just please release these one of the nice things about the studios as residential like you're. There, the whole time you can, you know, get there's not already allows right using. Thank you. a long walk. I think in the woods yeah there's going to be very honest. I don't know if we ve it really established that this isn't february yeah yeah instead of winter. In the dead of winter. I in the middle of getting nowhere. Twenty foot icicles off the eaves of all the building, so even just a walk from the house to the studio, which is what a hundred yards. If that you risk frostbite

so there's really know getting out and doing anything we're all just really contained in this beautiful house was great, but there's no little town to go to mean there is there's a think. If you want to drive a few miles, you can get into the little town of cannon falls, but there's like a bar and like an antique shop and light a gas station. I have really find memories of making ready to be honest with ourselves we had fun I think that we'd, it sounded so good as we were doing it just within the room as we're playing and then we would listen to playback, and I mean you are you have to imagine like here's, this guy who's made the The albums that sound we just always wanted to sound like nirvana king S, devout beady rigour and it was a dream come true and as a drummer I mean you know, to ticket that steve albanie germ sounds like it is

is was a joy. It was really. What is it? Can I just ask without getting overly technical, but what is? How do you get that drum sound? Because of I remember reading hammer the gods years and years and years ago, and they discuss I have to how Jimmy page had ideas about I'm going to get a sound from John bonham's drum by moving the mic, and I remember it was a revelation to me that by moving the microphone, you could get a difference. and because I don't know shit, look I just let me just cut you often bomb you out by saying that everything that has ever been written about studio techniques, and studio lore and all fables of things that have happened in the studio on famous records, every single thing in the popular culture that people have heard about happening. The studio did not happen. It's all bullshit thereof,

very, very, very small number of the store studio stories like oh, they smeared cocaine on the tape. You know all this, it's all bullshit it does in in it. You know, let's all just completely like fabulist stuff, that people write, because they they want to ascribe some sort of magic to the process, there's no magic to it. Well, this is heartbreaking. What about jimmy page, really being the guy who played all those causal aids for this? Oh in early sixties, for his ally, I mean that's probably rule Jimmy page. I heard offence or not everything's bull shit. Ok, is there a santa, but things like you know like, like, I think Dave can confer that he set up a normal drunk it in, a normal room and I put normal microphones all around it, and then I didn't fuck with him right. You know it's about not getting in the way and the that like ice. I suppose

one thing that's kind of notable is the ambient sound in that room. That room is really. Nice was a really nice acoustic sound and I'm fine of using the ambient sound in a room. If the rumours is nice, the we're sitting in right. Now is a lovely sounding room and the sound of my voice, echoing off the walls, is much better than my actual voice. Rang yeah do you outside it was he uses like vintage german microphones that are sweden. They have their. What kind of sound personal yeah it's funny that you mentioned Jimmy page, because I actually interviewed robert plant gimme page after they made the record with you, so rotten rubber, planned to repatriate a record with albania and what might in any eight percent. Ninety nine or no light was wasn't that far after years it was like wasn't yeah like I was on everybody shitless after I did your record and then I did a bush wreck and the page and play record, and that was it. So they call

in the end to interview them. For this sum magazine and- and I bet you were the connection like what you should. In our view, these guys guys that leads up when you ve made a registry about meaning and so are terrified. I don't know if I ever than before and never if anyone before and so we sat down and cameras, rolling stuff, and I knew At some point I was we were gonna talk about you I listen to the record. We talked about the record, but we're gonna, and I asked why they chose you and I remember Jimmy page saying that he felt very connected to a familiar with your recordings. as it was somehow similar. What he was trying to achieve when making leads up and records seem sort of ambience like that and we started talking about microphones, suck about placement and equipment and shit like that, and then robber

I can't stop as excuse me. Skinny it technically. Isn't it actually dreading as dreading. This anecdote, because you never told me this and to that end and my my presumption was the reason you never told me this It was because they were mean to me and that you don't want to hurt my feelings known in a no. No, they loved you get your sensitive its people that about you and the young. Let's get to work, as you said, your on some people shitless after in in utero. You guys make this. You have this experience, you have this great experience. You make this album. It goes on I have you find out. I think it was incurred words, the grown ups. Don't like it, they don't they It's too, raw. There were. About it. It's not what their word. It's not radio friendly,

When did you start to hear about that I remember hearing that the initial reaction was your fucking joking you're kidding right like I think that was maybe one of the record. Companies first reactions because I didn't you know when you make a record like never mind. Of course, most of the people, the record companies warrant a follow up. That's going to win We do, though they re supposed to meet, makes never mind, and we will recording went a little low over an watch. One some time to just rest, his ears and just get up way from it fervently days enemy. two Devon shyer remember and then, started mixing it can it just wasn't their labor was unhappy and when we stopped fixing the record and we will all went home- and then me. Brought any wallace in now, just one of those compromises and labels dislike. He knows. Enemy working

Andy wallace mixed, never mind and so then like. Well, I like the record. Where were we? how this I taught you heard about it. We have conversations dave we're like oh well, you know we are a big band and we do have this obligation and we live in a fabulous houses- hey so maybe which compromise like what is like the big. What's gonna, be the radio song see Kurt wrote a song called real friendly unit. Shifter would, as totally cynical all right, and so like all right and then we knew we were big, our young fans, they were according automatic for the people in seattle, and that was the was that was studio exit the time that was the best studio in seattle, so I would go down there and hang out. Listen to the then make this record and listen to their mixes at the end of the night or the recordings, and then that's how I got into knows. Scott Litt,

and then some I don't remember the details, but then it was like well hop. Scotland can mix a song or two or two, and that's it. That's the the so compromised. So to me, it feels a little bit like there's this again. This thing I was trying to get to earlier with this push me pull you feel of. We want to stay true to what we set out to do and we have this certain sound, but we are the number one band in the world and we are competitive. And we want to get some unity play, but like like four hardship box, remember steve, like that soul. like I. I didn't like the way that solar was in the way was just there was so it was too intense snarly. It was really snarly and I'm like well, you know this song is a really pretty song and it's in a sad song in some ways- and this I I I think I use the term like this sounds. Like you through this abortion on the floor epithet. That's what I said that call centres is abortion on for this, is terrible and then in ireland. We just talk, we will discuss it now and then one thing

I do not an autonomous gas, so you got the different solo. I believe, as someone who wasn't in nevada and didn't have these internal band conversations with them like my assessment of it was that they were managing their internal tensions and there and it's normal after you finish a record to have some doubts about it and they're, like you know like when you know wander like, should we do other take this should in ocean. We try this. I think Kurt added some backing goes to a song that had otherwise was otherwise finished, like the public perception, is that the record label insisted that they change things and nirvana gave in. on some stuff, you know they were landing on us and there. You know that I was alive all right on it at all. You I read on it was that nirvana. Decided that they were going to resolve these things on their own and the record label was carping to the rest of the you know in the management and everybody was they were carping about it, but nirvana was going to fuckin handle it. It wasn't up to them right,

and what I said then, and what I've been seeing ever since, as the record that made it into the stores is the wreck. That nirvana wanted everyone to hear, or you know, the funny thing is that, after in utero, it became kind of predictable move for other bans that were in. similar situations Bam, goes into the studio, unknown underground sort of like a rock. because of the studio get a better deal goes in the studio. Are put into the studio the producer they make an album, that's produced, it has really well and Then they feel kind of weird about it, because maybe didn't sound the way they wanted to sound like a popular whatever was enemy windows better set, your record alike will not. Now. This is we really sound like so wizard, did it with their album pinkerton, which has a fucking, amazing, record first visa record as much heads they become really barber. Then they go into your second record pinkerton and that album it

kind of like their in utero yeah, another band like bush. You know, bush is a band that gets really popular and has this produced record then they decide. No wait, fuck that now that we're big we get to do the thing We really want to do so we're to go in and make an album. Let's run the weight, it sounds so I dont If it was something that was happening before then, I'm sure it happened a million times before in utero, but for people that came the place that we came from, being in the garage and being in the van and being in the clubs and stuff like that. I think maybe if a man felt uncomfortable with their immediate rise to fame, that's the knee jerk reaction is to go in and make an album where they're like that. In a way, this is what we saw. I have to say a member when I first heard the first I could serve the servants and it is such a shot across the bow, nor from the never mind, experience which I love never mind. And then I heard this, and even today it feels little bit like you taking umbrella pad and your scrub.

In the beginning, original aim of the song is teenage. Annexed, has paid off well nigh on board an old yeah, so you're saying he goes now, I'm baldy. Nor ought then I shot. Dirty look really changed in yeah yeah. That's friends are for that was me of him yeah real, entirely good. I really true using I whereas the record now the range of the songs so for the job between, say, sir the service in an all apologies or heart, shaped box- and You know already a friendly unit. You know it's just have a longer milk year. This is downright menacing and ass. When you get the full encore Cobain just the way he does the vocal sisters, terrifying

really spooky, but then all that stuff- that's so sweet too near, and even even unlike the signs that have like big dynamic, like harsh bits when he was recording the vocals, he always had that little toy that little broken acoustic guitar and he was strumming along. So like a lot the songs in the verses they'll, be this like sort of funky sounding acoustic guitar, which was a kind of a company, thing for him, what was the gets? It was just a bit earlier, prolonged out ring with the six strings on it, and then it will stay in tune, so heat tightened the cheap tuning pig, like a screwdriver and then you'd have to use pliers like tune, it They were so tired. I think it had like a crack in the top and it was like a real one yeah, but it was a total piece of junk. He was more comfortable singing if he was strumming along on this guitar. So you hear this acoustic guitar under the vote. was in a lot of these songs in them.

Vs and it's not like he did a session where he did the acoustic guitar overdub. He was just strumming the acoustic guitar, while he was singing as a as a comfort thing for himself, and it stayed on the record, because didn't sound bad, it sounded fine rang and it the casual unloosen informal thing, but it made him more comfort, and so, when I think of his aesthetic, I dont think of this harsh gnarly violent thing and when you listen like when you think about the way people this bribe that record at the time as like. Oh it's, this cathartic menacing terrorist. You know terroristic. Kind of a thing would be an you listen to its yet, and there are. There are big. You know angry our full moments on it, but it's like a lot of it is really sweet, I remember when you came here in twenty thirteen. We did that alter version of it and we're playing through the stuff or listen to it like we played the masters for the like. The first thing we did was play. The masters of the origin, session and both of us right man. The sounds really great, like you,

you're. You know your listening to it now with the twentyth fibre thirty years of aesthetic that we ve been exposed to assist in it at what was the fuckin big deal? Michael, what were people so hot about it just sounds like a really good rector will address in a bid to be fair. I got a point. the reviews when the time came out universally almost without it, corruption were glowing, mean people really the the key, eggs, whatever. That means to you guys at the time thought it was fabulous, work, bad reviews thing I wouldn't know, never a bump in the road. I hear an echo Yes, they do those fabled electrical audio acoustics has what your hair, no but appreciate appreciated when it came out and, of course one of the different these is that, once Kurt died, everybody had to go back, and parts through in utero and he'd lyrics like

t weaves, leading you somewhere, and that feels like a recipe for incredible bullshit its understanding, you can do with sound garden, lurks two year. It's strange when we were making. The record we did although the instrumental tracks first kurt sang any life, the songs, just the three of us doing, mental tracks, first loud room without really having ever heard what, was going to sing or even how he was gonna sing like his has. Melodies and patterns that most of these things I just listen to them- is instrumental. So it was always excite like a mystery, knowing like oh he's in there singing this track today and wonder what it was going to sound like when it was finished, and what does it mean a one of kurtz amazing- abilities was not just that right, lyricist, but here really specific. signature melodic turn of phrase, so he could he always bring

really too simple line together, I think in a way that was almost unpredictable He would go from like maybe a gentle ways to a scream, or maybe a minor key to a major, but he would do it way. That was like really beautifully patterned, which I always that was really and really simple. Ultimately, at most everything that he did, I thought was simple but really smart enough anyway, so you hear these things as they came back and you here for the first time, has melodic idea, but also the that lyric and am every time I would hear it for the first time. I think that's just that's just Ah, that's unusual its it. It's a weird what a strange thing to say: what's that mean but as the drummer of course, I'm like shit that I slowdown in the poorest now Fatima kicked kick drums too, but you know it's I'd still.

This day. If I listen to that record, all find things or I'll feel things that I didn't necessarily feel twenty five years ago, not in light of everything that has happened, but, of course, that everything that did happen. Can you no kind of? screw the lens a little bit or distort maybe what it felt like before and what it feels like now. I think it's a slippery slope, it's easy to to look back at that stuff and there's a thing that people don't give kurt credit for enough, which is that a lot of people of his lyrical sensibility is just being a journal of his feelings, right he was an artist and he was incorporating stuff from you. No other things influences bands and record city admired stuff that here, read like literature. There's a line in one of the sides ethic its most by these smell, like butter, is that you noted plasma, and I was like what oh wow

third observation, you smell a baby and, like you just at a kid right in an end, is- and I found That was a near direct quote from book that he'd read about a guy who had this sort of sensory experience. The world it was abnormal, and you know unless apprentice yes, there was a brand as iraq, alma on in utero, near an inner and then like he's here. from seattle and Frances farmer, is a tragic figure, local person to the seattle area like of lore involved- and there are like there have been recently come to light a lot of this or manipulative stuff that had been done to her during her career. To try to manage your career like you can see that there are parallels there were there. You know like he may have been feeling pressures from outside people trying to manage his artistic expression for their benefit and seeing a parallel between his life and Francis farmers, life and then using hers figure it s a great title for a song yeah,

of leaving a blanket of ash burn. All the asked leave a blanket of action on the ground by and also it felt like a little bit of a reaction to somewhere once I think that there were so many just one name, songs did kurt was really interesting, am I going the other way so it frances farmer will have her revenge of the ghost of france's for work for revenge on seattle and justice or at the radio friendly. You know shipping, you wouldn't that these were attempts to say I'm real. Thanks to this cute moment, wherein, where everything is just one. He was aware of that as a trope and he was playing and he played with it. He had there was a one song you wanted to call gallons of rubbing alcohol roll through the strip district back. We had that jam yeah. We did that and he didn't want to be like, like the dated or be put in, like some kind of box or something so he also was just cryptic not allowed people to just invite people in to make the

we're an interpretation of it. Then, if you look at his other forms of expression, like Steve said, like Kirk was an artist and he was, he was a great painter. He was a sculptor, he would do comic books and he's more than happy to walk you through every panel, a bike, a comic he did hips like that, and- and they were always just tragic figures- the people and they were or just weird, like riding spirit, apparition kind of everything this kind of strange and dark and weird, but then still but we will then be in bureau. Beautiful very knows that done done very well, say that was the window use expressing himself musically his that in in euros, it's all over in you know I can go anywhere in the world anywhere. And see someone walking down the street in wanna t shirt, and I was mean we're here in Chicago we're, walking ass night you'll get a bite to eat, saw someone in a t, shirt, but I mean I could be in. You know

Maybe I could be on guam and just see someone rarely walked by an intervene, a t, shirt and what, but always strikes me about these moments- is that there's this massive jackson that happens: witches nirvana, legend kurt, it all gets timed out and it gets so huge. And then I talk to you guys and he's your friend that you knew intimately you guys were very close and it's all become so much bigger. There are people out there that have opinion strong opinions about who we was in what he meant and what you guys meant and must seem surreal to you at times with no, no, that was our them so and there were three of us we were in this- Van together and it has now become His eyebrows rejection on the war with my kids sometime or ask me sayer, but my daughter, hope or in our jargon and the car that longer six months ago, and of amazon came on and we don't look

in her bonnet hum the servant. I'm comes on she's singing along to the words it's weird have never heard her lesson turner of amazon. How does she know undervalues up and she says, m down how old were you when you made the sun set? I think it was funny you. Maybe she does skirt? here's what you like twenty three try for just what does he like as they want is really nice cash, I sometimes quiet, but whose goal but she's as well he was shy. Was he shy around? well, then he knew or people He didn't know, and I said well little bit of both and she said, so strange that someone who to feel shy like that, the good work, these songs and sing them for everyone. Here then stand on stage in front of a hundred. As people and play them. I thought that was so cool because I think she wasn't looking so much at that

thing. Yet she was looking at the person right and after nirvana was over, that that curtain cut sort of like sort of pulled away so It changed the way. I thought about every other, mythological rock star that I'd ever followed entire life, and it really made me realize oh shit, they were actual human bay? We talked like they're playing cards or something like that, but they're. Just people can somebody help me with this pronunciation of this term apotheosis yet answering that's it ok, yeah that that soap, that you get it and you need soap to treat it as special medically. This sounds like the name of a boutique that I cannot afford a single guy rizzi for that I dunno. If that's what it is so like. Basically the apotheosis. What's this whole idea that something well Ok, so I just this is just my own person connection to a very public thing for you guys

But there was some back when there big deal mtv awards kind of situation and because I was brand new on the scene, you know here this new guy were sending him to the he's gonna be sitting like the second or third row, and you guys got up and spoke was very shortly after Kurt had died and the two went up on stage and spoke in a month's time. Powerful feeling of they lost their friend. You could feel how wrong personal at all was in that moment, people and bans are that the fraternity that you feel like they compare the companionship of people that, intimate creative with day to day basis a really incredibly strong bond and its also you, you know those people intimately. We have them this box.

again and John silver did a really good job with that he's. A music fan first and foremost, and of you, I'm not gonna, be selling my nirvana coffin of never van gonna bet it has like life performance is theirs. Does this thing is packed and react with like you're always arisen, backstage passes and john servants of artists management, they'd put they put it all together and tons of other tracks that didn't make it onto in utero were disappointed lives. Stefan here see I'm wondering if it has determined that we did You know and brazil, but there's like live in rome live in los angeles, live in seattle on their board tapes, and then there we use technology decline of clean to clean them up you can it make em all track now from a stereo, Did you guys you live favorite life?

mrs, it just come utilise point at smear had joined the bank power. He now is a hugely from the release of the album he was wearing the ass. This is, it was big because we had made the album and kurdish talked about. You know what point. There was a second guitarist and nirvana before I join the band and he wanted to get another guitars at this point. de los angeles. It comes back. He says I found her, your guitar blair, really is that pats mere from the germs and if anybody knows the journey, They were very early on that I've been los angeles. Perhaps a dangerous and So I just thought like: oh my god, I can't believe that fuckin guy still alive because as an asset as an aside, a sad sigh notice, darby crash, yet he committed suicide have a singer of the german version anyway. So pat comes up and I'm just expecting this big disgusting fat junkie and he's the most wonderful, energetic, brilliant beauty, well together

but he really breathed this whole new life into the ban. To the great thing too, as I disagree anecdote that defines his contract, the ban, in addition to being a great musician- and there was a story of you guys- playing a show and then there's not a nice review about the show answers you know the show was are from some is really review or are you getting on piano getting past? The opening night of the tour in utero tour was at the arizona a fair and it's the first night, and so you know tat a couple shows to get role and in some edna gunderson from you, say today a name that will live worldly quarters yoga review like why didn't she go like three or four into the tour than she would have caught us, and that's it you get on this rock sat. You get the bandits that falls under my own ravages review comes out and the story I heard

is that the review comes out and everyone on the bus is like condemn it. Why did you s age today right this about us and pass it? Oh come on? We sat and everybody laughed meaning just sort of taking taking the piss out of the whole thing comment we were off will in a was. I love that who do you call to take over the technical side of things and a guitar banned the fuckin guy from georgia? Yet it's I can't think of a better. I can't think of a band that ism a closer parallel to the kind of like uneasy feeling that you got from the weirdest moments of nirvana than the germs like they're there. Their whole thing had that same sort of like familiar but slightly sleazy and slightly uncomfortable quality and the end. It was a sonic thing like the sound of pats mirrors guitar. It sounded a little sour and a little. You know little creepy and it seemed like a like it was after assumes I heard about, I thought- oh yeah, that's unnatural industry was great. So what

we came out to do these. Shows I mean there were bigger, shows, and I mean really. It was our first arena tour. You know, when did you like? What did you like playing the arenas it? It felt strange at first. I think I mean our towards the end of nineteen. Ninety one. We did an arena tour opening up for the red, hot chile, peppers. Anna you know I was. I was afraid that that what we do that energy wouldn't translate a beggar room. Yet you know, because we were used to find bases his bag and put us the corner there and the place explodes, and it's amazing did try to move them. yeah to bigger Omby heart, so it felt weird they also. There was a caterers, yeah we're getting worse and then catering fired and because it made the wrong packaging is because they have a really good food. I thought it was really good and current, like corn, dogs and macaroni cheese,

bologna sandwiches, so they were making actual macaroni with actual cheese, and he never had that before, and that was the last fucking yeah. So it was just like you know was one of those things like, and while we did a show, we had a shows a ninety minute show we had a stage set up. We would do our acoustic breakdown. Part is the same. Show every night play. It was like twenty dollar tickets tickets were like twenty box, because you could I'll cds and make money, and then we have like working family prices, but then also the best part was We're like okay, we're in arena band. Now a cool the opening band is going to be the bottoms from Japan are they opening band is going to be fucking. The buchholz surfers, so you've got all the kids that, like just bought, inhumanity, shirt and they come to the rock show to see their favorite band and they ve got like bobcat go

where is the amsterdam and advocate the bundle surfers, where's bark is going on about cat gold swayed become the opener fur on? If you do, you guys were real family or fast. Kurt had meet Bob that record and- and we just happened to be second ninety. Ninety and I we were in like miss again. I was gone sent out a college radio station and bob cat was there. How is a high? We do you, he did know who we were. We nobody knew who we were like a we europe you're on this academy like it the figures I met them and I good luck with your little band. Said goodbye and then we just just got him a sort of honor aside like as as comedian sure he was like a kind of a cynical versus the alpine weirdo yeah, and so we like them, he got a better view. Rex reed gave him about review and he goes he was my friend.

They were judge on the gong sure we'll. How do we sum this up? It's been thirty years, and it must feel good that this work stand the test of time. Why Does your good will come back in the fifty year anniversary and see what kind of what we have to offer and its greeted peoples? I am very interested in that. We have the opportunity to do this and to like out There's vine all in their slide show so you can. He won't be tracked or have a cookie put on your consciousness. and you can just put the the tone armed down on a piece of vinyl. I listened to your von alive in rome or los angeles or seattle, and you can be it'll keep it can. Have your imagination, you're invited to cut to come inside that world an experience that show so I'm just copy the to have the opportunity

and you said that there is no, you don't plainer of honour at home. Now it is going to be an exception. You think I mean the court about being a musician for a long time. A bunch of records is that you eventually star measuring your life, not in like increments time or whatever, it's like albums that you ve made. So if you asked me about particular record. A scream occurred or providers record whatever I'll immediately know what year is maiden I remember almost every about where I was and who I was at that time. So when I think thirty years ago with the fuckin. What's that even mean thirty years, but if you say ninety, ninety three every comes back and then, when you listen to it to me, it's almost like these them their server sonic snapshots, secular photo, album something. So when I, when I hear the music, it brings back a lot of personal vivid them

These are just stupid. Shit like I remember that jacket that I had that stupid had about more carolina or this, full abashed, but I know that I fuckin steve put in my. He has seen brazen knuckle and not either alone has the felt by when I got ripped. I knew I was a sad but like that, but then also you know again you I refer to my children, a lot because there discovering music in the same way that, while differently than we did then but sort of emotionally in the same way that we did at their age- and it ought to see their reaction to this music. Now is really fucking cool So we did this one guy. The witness at this of charity benefit thing once that the art of elysium thing that we did all a long time ago, and we got asked to play this thing in los angeles, but we couldn't make it and then the person who is putting on the show said well. Why don't you just play acoustic on the fact they hung onto that? So I thought you know what maybe I'll call chris and pat and see if

Maybe joan jett come up and we can do some nirvana songs or maybe someone us there. No do, We're thinking about people to sing, and then I dunno who brought it up, but some, maybe it was you that said the violent want to sing a song, or maybe it is pat, my daughter, violet and am a solace Jesus I think there was yeah? There was footage of it yeah, and so I that will I'll ask her and I said a guy she's a credible singer and she really likes nirvana at the time had pictures, maybe for team. I have a fourteen for general girl as having a second nirvana song. She said absolutely, and I said which one of all of them, not just this record of all of them and she picks heart, shape, and my first reaction was what I dunno my kid to fuck them up so bad at it. This is that this is the sun they want to sing, but, but seriously I was, I was varied

proud at what I realises kids these days. Theirs just window and between the ages of like maybe ten and thirteen, eleven and fourteen, or something like that, where almost every Kid goes through intervene, a and for a reason- and I the has less to do with the sound. I think it has more to do with what it means I think it means the same thing today to those kids as it did when we released it so that to me is the coastline and selling aren t shirt. Yeah, gentlemen: it has been an honour seriously. you great artists, and you also have a lot of integrity and you stood the test of time and so getting to hang out with people like. You is a big deal to me and I We appreciate itself from Steve Chris Dave. Thank you very for doing this, and I was really looking forward to this one and you did not disappoint me. Thank you very much and happy to happy to be your friend. Why gotcha there

the lesson, the anxiety considerably. I feel jazzy still at that

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