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Recently, I had a really nice conversation with Billy corrigan always been a fan, admires work and I did it. as part of my words and music series that aired on, six m team cocoa radio chant one o six, that we talked about music that inspired billy because it was on the radio we were able to even play the songs. It was cool. I enjoyed the conversation so much. I thought let share My podcast listeners now, unfortunately, as you can imagine, were not able to play the songs in the podcast itself, so I would encourage listeners to either do the following. If you are serious exam subscriber open up the s ex em, in search, conan and you'll be able to find the conversation with the songs or If you're not a serious Xm subscriber, will provide a list of the songs in the episode notes, she can listen along the songs with the music streaming service Joyce anyway.

You'll figure it out, but tat we had fun so unequal enjoy this conversation, as far back to work, and I want to start with this. memory- I have Billy when I think about the sometimes cause. I think we both, the scene around the same time and when I mean hit the scene, hardly anyone said that in thirty years, maybe forty so I apologise, but ninety Ninety three was when I started doing my late night show, I think, that's when smashing pumpkins, sir. show up on it? Is that correct ninety three two,

or just a general worry for the general public as what I meant. That's when that's when when people are like oh you're, here, you're here now, yes, I was around before ninety three me too, and we were slaving clubs somewhere. I'm sure you know I had this. crazy you're too, at the start of my show was very rocky and we were doing a lot of weird stuff and coverage was people were not happy with what I was doing and then arisen vited to go to the premier of howard, stern private parts, So I went, cosette was well those things where you go. It's a bit. You know you ve been. to go to this huge media event? You go and I But member thinking, I don't know, do I belong here. Should I be here and there's this everybody in the world is the emerald packing this crazy situation, and I think the next thing I know Merlin Manson is like in my face. may be doing a bit, maybe not trying to get me to drink,

like a shower of something that looked evil? It was all very weird and an earlier was, but I dont jenny Jamieson, while that right, a right! Ok, will your memories better than than mine. I think I was focused on what's in that chalice than what who's he with theirs feeling really on comfortable in Was the high school way like? I belong here. I wish I was in here right now I'll. Let you recounted lyrics for creep by radio had yes, I am I mean I remember thinking I wish I had a different body. I wish I had a different soul No, but then you What do you really know well said? came over and just said, like two marilla manson, like back off dude you're like on, and how are you you were so nice to me. Was a fan said how That was by the way call. Is everyone else was being so performative and

conscious trying to outdo each other in some spectacular way, they would get attention and you cut over and in a very midwestern nice way said hi to me and said Mr Bonde and I every now and then that pops into my head as usurped sort of coming out of the fog is a nice decent person, nothing and being nice to me and so that I'd just thank you for that cause. I owe you one for that. I have a similar story from mum. Jimmy foulon, where am I didn't, realize but the show that we played on with ninety eight cameron, diaz house, that was Jimmy's. First ever asked now: and he said he was super nervous and he said it was the pumpkin. Calming him down backstage and loosening up and making them feel comfortable. They allowed his. you to be a success. I had no idea, we were just being ourselves in a right, but it's like I'm now. Realizing that

like a life coach is right. I know I've been accuse you were you know what, if you're, in the background of every key performers moment in their life just coming, I would I went farther gone on us. I wouldn't mind it. I'm just I wonder if there's a more a more a moral tale or a morality tale in there, but I certainly part of his you come, that day. I why punk community, you know it's like. Don't get too find yourself, but the other thing is when you start interfacing with what at that point was mainstream mtv, whatever bs culture May I have met recently shaking sumner redstone's handed some. You know like lime Why am I shaking summit are redstone's hand right you have you been have his poster on your while. I was a kid I had all the great industrialists I'm all. I remember with some mandarin like character, who looked like He was on some life extension technology. You like something viral nowhere, dune yeah

you know me with like the heart. Twenty one year old and then like assist its hovering around and whispering, and you know you can get pushed for Shake his hand like ok, I know it is I may tell you it's like you know, but can you swear in your pocket structure? We encourage it. And I'm like I don't give a shit like him. He like is a nice person. It's very midwest, like you said, and it's like. I dunno so yeah. That's a very I guess. There's I've been looking forward to talking to you not because I'm a big fan of your work- and I really love to talk about music, that I, I do feel that your trajectory which I find amazingly cool. I also announced like I'm complementing myself, which I don't did not intend, but I really to a lot of work, You ve done. I understand it makes sense to me and the way that you have thinking about the arc of

this success that you ve had, but how you ve taken control of it? How you have shaped career with a lot of thought, I find to be really impressive. Like you, you know there is just one exception to what I am about to say, but you're, the only person is lover, but ever let me sit on the couch and talk of all the shows. I've been and had been animal? No one ever set me on the couch, talk and invariably summoning your world. You be watching some late show near and you're watching some vacuous act, or tell some very unfunny story and everybody's laughing, like they're all high in oxygen right, and somebody turns to me and kind of slaps me goes. Why don't they ever? Let you talk your which much more? interesting. I said they don't want me talkin. Finally, but you know what I mean you don't want me on that couch, there's a reason and not on that couch, but you're, the only person ever. Let me on the couch with. Thank you

I remember I didn't ask you just charged over. He said we had secure. Remember I was wearing leathers loves. He were like. Why are you wearing leather gloves, and I gave you some stupid answer yeah? Well, I was you know like you took the bait right. Yes, yeah wore the leather gloves on purpose, and you asked: why are you wearing leather gloves since, like funny, you should ask right and then we were often rania. I will. Let's start you know. First of all, Start in the present, because you have this new album, ah ah tomb and listening to it today and it's what I love is you work straight your music- I don't know I'm not. We call it that to action yet orchestrated really really be to, and you can tell that, there's a lot of alma like classical thought that goes into it and no training by no tree in nonzero so psycho, it's like a house, possible noticed in the the great story I like to tell us when I was very young was tested as being gifted in music and

They call my father and his musician said your sons, probably musical savant, a seven years old or something and so weak later me a piece of paper tommy to circle. The instrument that I wanted to play in that I needed instruction and I went home and my father saw the cost and ripped up the paper and threw in the garbage, and that was the end of my musical life at up to that point. Oh wow, somebody recognized early on that. I had some kind of. Do you remember what or instrument you circled saxophone. Maybe your dad did you a favor I had to. I had to be touring with sade right now, though, it gets better and better. I had a step family and german and polish and and the polish uncle, henry when he found it. I wanted to play guitar when I was fourteen, he literally pulled me aside said there is no future

the guitar which you want to play is the accordion. Why we haven't. I know what you're having that conversationally area. Is this real is really try to convince me to play the accordion and he was dead serious. I think I can talk. that with even more absurd story, which is, I guess, the late night show in april of ninety three? So it's it's almost it's exactly aquifer exactly our thirty years since I was ever gone, she added. I've tried, theyve winged me a few times, but I get this. abbots announced that the replacement for David letterman is going to be this guy conan, o brien everybody's, saying who is this guy what's happening and I got a call from my uncle lives in stir mass, who I love by the way, a great guy. Now to my uncle ned, calls me, and he says what is this: what are you doing a meeting in the paper and he said the law? We should study the law. He's He was talking to me about getting into law and twenty convinced me that law was better than her.

Sting one of only three late night shows in america and he meant it. He ran back when people actually watch lately exactly, I know so I was, but he was saying on their forget. He said you can. As a lawyer, you can be former in front of a judge but you're also your own scripts. When you prepare a case which, unlike novel, Gonna now call NBC and say this isn't happening. I'm going. to imagine a conversation going to law school? They would have said finally get some other idiot who were who ran the network back. Then I was gonna bob right and I think he actually took a call from my uncle. That's true. So is it my uncle also called bob right and said what? took his book and here's the connection bob right had gone to holy cross college investor and so had my uncle, oh, my god. So he got through and they pray said the commons uncles on the line and wants to talk to you about it, picked it up and he was like what are you? What are we doing here when you went to the cross? I went to the cross. This is it

I think for him. I think the law would be better and he for years areas with howl telling that store s amazing yeah, but he was right and it is I want it. So it's almost sounds invented, but its that's. Why so That is very true story, but, Here's what amazing to me this is a item. Has thirty three songs on it and their career suicide. Now I mean I was I was it, I'm I'm not joking, but it's so you're a mean you're, so prolific and its, but it's staying because a lot of this right now, are focusing on these. small projects and singles and things like that and you Are we fully saying this is what I am doing and you're welcome to join me or not. But this is what I have decided to do without being political, which is hard to do these days. I think the culture is sick,

Counter intuitive to the human experience, and so just made a decision? I want to do whatever I think is right for when I do, which is make music and if people have a problem with it and don't listen- it's really where to me. When you sit in board rooms and people try to talk a musician into not making music yeah, I mean those are real conversations I have, and, unlike I don't understand like it's like saying: hey, you're, really good at juggling dont juggle so much yeah, just a But why, like the egg, I can't can't wrap my head around it emotionally or intellectually. It reminds me of when the government is paying people to destroy crops in order to stabilize the price it fails at that. Some of the art begin the kind of scarcity arguments right less, is more and now how about be dead soon and I'd, rather leave my kids, more songs and less like, let's start there, that's my math right, I don't care about your mouth In fact, your mouth is usually wrong. One of the things that fascinates me is when

you, as we said in ninety three whence matter, pumpkins arrives and you're killing it and you. you have heard you talk about these years, there's all this success, and yet what you're feeling around you is negativity, dogs, horrible and I You know I heard you, I heard talking to howard about it. You were talking about all the negative and negativity were getting when you guys were v band and I kept thinking Was this real negativity, your hearing, or was this with some of it rio and some of it coming from your expired. its growing up bit both the swiss take them. The part, that's real and its thing that I didn't understand them, but I think most people would understand now, because it's something that's off talked about in our world. We use culture like a football now, so I was very early version- now the modern version of the cultural football somebody has no power

kicking you in the head to make the point to win their side, without naming the banned, there are people to this day still trying to assassinate me behind the scenes, because their loyal to another band, and somehow my success represents something again that ban so they're still trying to can kill me off behind the scenes. So out of that stuff. That goes on, I had even people writing articles. When the ban that successful somebody had been published this for the ban and another listen, I work with the ban behind the scenes. Road and article in england saying that I was secretly from it which family and I was pretending to be poor and abused totally fabricated story like what we would now call a hit piece or something right, and I'm sitting there and in my house and you don't I really field in chicago reading about the purse that doesn't exist and not you're staying? Why are these people who I know personally I've been to the house and had dinner through table? Where are they trying to assassinate me?

public in order is a strange. It's the either or though I never understand which it, which is. You know I mean it goes back to the early days of ike beetles stones, jack par johnny, Carson yeah. without argument. Yes, yes, jack par was the host of the tomato before johnny and updating myself, but no who better to date- and I but I but I would say like before you now there was a jack. Car was more area died and You know Whittier an carson's more of a clown and you know What are you talking about there? It's just its you can enjoy them both their both rate in their own way, and it's so that this strange thing of, if you

the rolling stones, you don't have to hate the beatles. If you love the beatles, you don't have to hate the rolling stones, but to me it's that either or which is when you talk about the cultural football yeah. I think that's what we get into a lot now is you're. Not even a person smashing pumpkins represents yeah smashing. Pumpkins represents this avatar. This other band represents that other avatar and you're, the other avatar, has to kill the the first avatar thinks that that is real and it persists in it's own form. Today the imagined part was just seeing stuff. That's just you know. I think it's like something out of an old hollywood musical. I imagined what success would look like and when I got there, whatever that disneyland ride was like? I actually arrive like there. Is me a new standing there at the private parts? Premier, I am, I got a massive album. You got a big tv show were bystander going world there we and right right. There's a sort of level of dispossession. So if you're not secure in yourself, for you don't know kind of what the point is it's easy to get lost in it, because there's not owe you

can I get a lot of confirmation of the cultures not design for that and the systems of you being in the network system being in the major label system? Those patience systems that assume that you're not going to last right and they really rewards sociopaths who were lit kill their own mother to get ratings or sell records in my case and anthea expect you to do that and if you don't want to do that, they know somebody standing behind you that will literally more than happy yet more than avatar and you and I don't want to put thoughts in your head, but I'm assuming you're aware of that, court. You know there's somebody standing at the other side of the wall waiting Chris. What's nice is that and this is where I'm going with all this- is that what I Have found in my career is that just turned sixty why a week ago and I'm happier Then I was in my time he's in thirty's. cause I feel like I've I've got into a contented play

is where I know what I want to make. I know what I like to do and I know how I like to do it and like to make it on us one like this, for example, with a smaller scale but I really enjoy it and its meaningful to me and the same thing with some of the other projects. I'm doing, and it's not, It didn't, like the other part, it's just that now. It feels like I'm. directly speaking to people there, interested in what I like to do and there's a little bit of a. I have a community and it's it feels a lot more organic and I feel that you, but the music, making now and then with your pocket ass. We are talking about that you're it's the same idea of its. Like a table, Ralph tree where you're making the cookies. I realize I mean you, know saying that they I don't really believe they make those cookies in a tree, but the cartoon is very convincing. It's worth

noting that for most of human history, that was the condition of people in the art whether you were traveling barter you're, the guy they hired to come. Tell jokes, adding that was most of human life. The twins century brought on the mechanization and, of course, You know it rewards people like us to say: hey, you can climb up this magical escalator, make a lot of money and reach all these people. So it's very tempting, and really there aren't many. comparable games at that time. Now you look like a cyclical, Odin talk in the other day and he was talking about CNN going after infer Iver makin and he was laughing any was like seeing and truly leaves they have the higher ground. In my shows ten times bigger than anybody on finances, like no one's told cnn by the Joe rogan is way more influential now than you are like still in the old systemic thought. So the other thing I like to point out is in in kind of just way. We ve seen the erosion of what I call the gatekeeper class.

In my world. It would have been the record critic. You know what was lester, bangs or whoever it roger down would decide, make or break it or whoever was broadway critic it near times we also the movie wearing what goes to whatever, though the restaurant the thing and hopes and they're waiting for the review to marry the difference, but of a five hundred people keep in their job or not. If one guy decides yes We do has some value, I think that's gone. Oh, I see Instead, I back in The early days, the one or two big critic said nope this, isn't it hey post master's to make. I remember that, do you have some oscars or some grammy's right who me I did amis. I hosted a. I remember that Imagine you get it. You read that review to right yeah, but I mean this was even at the very beginning when I was just starting out it was you There were gatekeepers who told you whether this show was worth your time or not, and it had a lot of power and

as we know now, there's no such thing there's a lot of opinions, but there is not one opinion that they can shut you down. I just love: they'll kill themselves. They put themselves out of business now because with click bait world they couldn't help themselves they just how to get snark ear and dumber to keep up right. And I and you saw its influence even on the old guard, the new york times and stuff like they just couldn't help themselves like they end up going in that obvious, even click, particularly on the political sites. I I just love that they just blown themselves up by this is really funny, because at the end the day there still commenting on stuff people getting stuff done yet, and you can, you about the effectiveness of that person. Getting that stuff done, but if you're somebody's getting stuff done, you're still getting stuff done, really easy to sit there and the stance of the football games, so I could have made that pass. The Tom Brady missed right in I was there

superbowl when he missed the pass. It was literally sitting there when he missed the pass at the end of the game that cost him the super bowl in indianapolis. You know- and somebody probably sit next to me- was like I gotta make that pass you no, you couldn't have that's why it's Tom Brady right, but so I still have people come up to me in airports and tell me how to make my records. You know it's funny to me. I've thought this, I thought about how I'm very lucky the internet didn't exist. when I was launching back in, three, because I don't think you know her of troubles it was, but I think I would have gone quite mad if I'll. If I I mean terms of feedback in firms. feedback. I mean there would have been a good part of it, which is, I would have heard from people who I later Matt younger people who aren't you know. I think you done quite well what I would have culture. I guess it's not about youth, but I'm saying let's say the way we're being, then, yes, I'm being a bit a fan boy, but if you could take ninety four and pluck you into this world. I think you would fit quite well into this world. Ok, mom I think I would have your memory

That's what I'm trying to. Thank you. Thank you. That's all I wanted and we can wrap it up now back school season every year. It seems like those supply. Let's get a longer and longer you don't I'm saying so, I sure do do any good. then their supplies we're going back to school, yeah idea a rare to pay your right by day. I will we do this our kids man, so many supplies the irony of bank bank. I want more events. Hulls lets me talking We spend less on your kids with amazon. Amazon is everyday low prices on all the back to school, essentials and brands, even better than the deal's is the time you save to one stop shop with everything from the trenches fashion. The latest tech

it's a true schools list on amazon and add to cart for just one click then subscribe and save. So you won't have to worry about it for the rest of the year. The lessee think the better yes and just think son. With all that time and money when you're not shopping, Spending yeah. You can actually be spending time with your kids, exactly enjoying yourself shopping yeah. It's about time. You learn their names anyway, find everything you need with a click of a button. When you visit amazon, dot com, slash back to school, amazon spend less smile more the this episode, gunnar brain needs. A friend has brought you by the quarter powder with cheese from mcdonald's. That's nice, that a hamburger which step in and endorse us a hamburger literally and not only any hamburger, be the icrc. quarter pounded with cheese from mcdonald's has just stepped in and said I with you coding, that's excitement to eat it yeah you, don't you

admit site. You love yourself. in mcdonalds. You always, I love make done on you and I love the quarter pounder with cheese. Why do why tell people why? I know why? But you tell me why there is you know it's a juicy beta, there's more than one slice of melted, cheese, so much cheese yup, they have the pickles, they have amiens catch up and mustard. I mean a regular cheeseburger. Mcdonald's is bomb but a quarter. to achieve so much beef yet, and I What more be I love the way say: beef again guess what I call the jew pc its per saucy drippy oozing with that amazing flavour. You know it. the burger they invented napkins, for don't look that up, probably not true anyway. I it's just when you get a quarter pounder with cheese at mcdonald's. It's like, oh, they made this just for me. This is the first one they ever made

Well, don't walk down slow down, enjoy it. Oh, my god. I call it the q p c. That's what I do. I've never never heard. You say that, but ok, it's a burger worthy of a nickname or to the gpc waiting for four ounces, fresh beef available at most restaurants in the contiguous? U s not available in alaska hawaii, and u s territories, sorry, guys!. How do you think you would have handled the internet when smashing pumpkins is is is first making it big. Would you have been fruitful do red stuff online night. As I do not know, I learned that lesson from my first miss with the internet, was. I was like great there's this new feedback loop. I meant to empower the fan in quotations. We can have this different type of relationship and they all turned out me yeah because they don't want you to come off the mountain ripe

they want you up on that mountain. They want you to play whatever character, they think you're playing moses or something bald angry geier. Something so am I Earned really fast like now, you do not they do this. When people pull you aside, when you make some money and say you know, don't get your friendly with help same thing. I I I I I used to take fans out to breakfast and stuff. I was famous for like like when people light up at six, a m for a show, and I would give her morning walk. I would go down and find fifty people line. I take them all for breakfast, because I've heard by any I've been doing the fire had now. This is really fun like this is and by the way, the post about you know it to be really fun, and invariably you would look at and there be somebody complaining that you know when they were eating their pancakes? You didn't answer their questions at various sire. I was pretty much and I guess I had a friend I have a few

and who went to see a famous Andy kaufman show and afterwards any kaufman invited everybody out. Yet and there were buses outside, and so he got on the bus and then he said it just kept going all night and the crowd kept getting smaller and smaller cars and he would say now meet me. The here and now meet me here now meet me there and he At the end it was there on coney island. I think he said it was Andy. often alike to other people and my friend rodman and and the sun was coming up, and I love that I love but obviously that's something that you can only do for so long and I'd learned to not read comments and their partners a lot younger than I am she's twenty six fingers on him. So then started being together and it became very poor that we are together once we're having a child. She, from that generation. That would, of course, go right comments because that's the world, she up in the uk, where people say she was coming back, saying people think I'm a boy forcing saying ugly people saying all sorts of crazy stuff about me. You know,

she was reading this stuff Ojeda. I hear about it. She was going on. I fancy sites. Reading I'm askin interjected say that she came with you and cheese it sitting in the room outside and she is stunningly beautiful. Thank you. She said so I do this if they can prove that people on the internet, same yeah. That is one of the more attractive and I've seen in a while. You, like I know like heard she's pretty enough. That's credits, madness, yeah, yeah, amber em. When curtain courtney were together. I went to visit Courtney at some hotel in She was obsessed because, she'd seen some fan comment on the internet and the fan comments. But she isn't even pretty like that sort. explained everything you know she was so she was obsessed with this idea of like, but she is pretty like bats. There was the defeat and characteristic about. Why did he marry her? She isn't pretty So what's its old thing of you know, I could

the late night audience size was about three hundred and fifty people in that studio, audience had rough, our centre. Three hundred and forty nine could be deliriously happy and I could immediately find the one personality you and I had the same does whose wasn't laughing and I think it's quite common, which is what is that person's problem? You know I learned a long time ago. You just first of all, you don't know like they may. And I've had a couple of occasions where someone who didn't was not that demonstrative concert or at a show or something that I was doing, and then I see them afterwards and like very soon it face. Major says one tell you, I'm a huge fan and they start listing all these different things. They're not. demonstrative that way, or they may really despise me who knows, you don't know you can't make any assumption. I had the same thing but wasted time. I see everything oddly so and I've had it where people will come. Somebody. I know when it will be with a partner in I say to the guy. You didn't seem to have a good time and a consequent

talk about. I like have every move ever made. You like I'm like your biggest fan, and I love this in your site. Don't judge of by the cover rights like you can get it back, it's a college. So that's too, I went to my daughter, asked me to take her to coach heller. Last summer inside buyers mistake actually ferris. It was really fascinating, but we were watching we wearing an indian headdress. I was worrying cowboy chaps and nothing else, It was just in its madness, its madness, but I really enjoyed it and I gotta go was to a lotta music and a lot of fun ash that I would never seen before, but ah what was amazing, as I some one watched me why a ban that I really liked and then afterward said, came to me and said, I just saw you not enjoying that band and I'd just that's how I am someone that jumps around when I'm watching music, I can watch someone who, I think has actually hilarious and I'm just watching them saying thinking by this for

really good. I don't necessarily react the way other people would want me to react, saw members being bombed out. That thou was what they took away from me. Was you just stared at that band without enjoying their theory that audiences are better in the dark, as are more likely to be demonstrative genetic there I didn't know that now some people we we we use a lot of back late- very rock, so the audience is usually pretty well lit and people will, homey me say enough. The audience would be more into the show. If you dont have light on them because they can they they can. They can be themselves in the dark or something else this strange but mm when I inherited the late night show they told me there Dave lerman like to keep the studio, really coy forty six degrees. By the way you have really cold, and he said Thought was because the last for better and then I started to think I think it's because if you clap your hitting bodily heat. Somebody like getting people wonder both hermia, but it you know

always and honour honor to play dave show afterwards leah, then immediately after which we were grown and think here we go. We're gonna go in the siberian winter and try to play rocks on yeah. While we were there, the person who like that Jim. You remember, this was a wreath of franklin rid. The franklin showed up to play our show. She was not having that shit about occult studio and we were trying to kill. You know people are trying to explain to a wreath of franklin that will actually does help, because between the lights and the cameras and everything is gonna get too hot in there now you fuckers Gonna put that and you know no one says boo: During the frank, it is hard to say yeah I made them at one time I was like side done, letterman enough rose and always walk from dress, urim, and then you walk in the cotton. This, like you, saigon, called outside, try to sing right right side. Had this idea ominous stand in the wings for about ten minutes, adjust to the cold thing, and then it was worse. So I never worked for me but

what are you going to? Do I mean? What do you call? Letterman aside, hey dave, you know him. Yes, that's exactly what you should say: you're, not aretha, franklin yeah. I am the Aretha franklin of my genre is what you should have said, and you know we asked you will, for I have a cut one or two geek questions cause from a hack guitarist. What was the guitar? You saw as a kid that blew your mind was her. While my father played a flying v, cat and he had a nineteen sixty six percent, finally yet and purple very cool with her, like an eighteen nineties, indian head silver dollar, which people used to put in a back a flying beast the count as a counterweight because they had stocks are so heavy. The guitar always wants to rotate finance yeah agenda, my dad high on whatever he was on with the very seventies mustache. That was the guitar. You know that that you allowed to touch. Now I was not a guy. I was not. He forbade me to touch the instrument while agenda

so was only allowed to work. I have to say that the couple of times I've strapped on flying v, I found it a very uncomfortable experience and not something. It is very uncomfortable and so then what did you mean? Did you move on to a less paul? My father got me up ryan made less Paul, copyist known in the business or looks like a less paul, but it's some badly made one am I had that I painted black solely to a drug and then I had a fender mustang that my father gave me. I played that for while, but it had very weak pick. Ups couldn't get the grunge sound and then jimmy chamberlain showed up one day with a night seventy four yellow strap, yellow I think that my color, but richie blackmore did play that guitar, so that was ok. and Jimmy set ourselves for two hundred and seventy dollars rage,

at a time of an odd number right. Yeah there I later found out because that's how much needed for rent yeah had to be for something specific lenin and then fast forward. Twenty years, I'm walking home in chicago and guideposts me sites us. Do you still have a guitar and us no that's the one, they got stolen and a fear that story. So we found it twenty seven years later and came back to me. But that they want to resell it. Do you know this guy pulled me aside her and said: do you still have that pet qatar right I said now and he goes, but you got it Jimmy chamberlain right yeah said how much they charge you for it and I got to understand dollars. Yugoslavia stole that guitar. For me, oh Jesus, ok, he wasn't man because he was he loved me with some we a story like kids story were jimmy, had stolen the guitar and sold it to me for right money, and that was that I was the guitar I played on the band's first records and they got that guitar got stolen. Some sort of weird karmic thing came back. twenty seven years later, it's gonna be,

it's gonna reappear in your life in ireland are. You did guy, gentlemen? I oughta Nashville somebody contacted him and he bless his heart got the guitar back. He obviously play somebody didn't ask me for any mind. Gate just gave me the guitar, that's gray. After twenty seven years I like that school had been altered. Much now, surprisingly now. I remember very well that the first electric I got was. I think I aids six hundred dollars for it, and it was nineteen, eighty five and that, an incredible amount of money. Just eleven still somewhat yeah what would wish. Where is your guitar and well? That said, it was sixty three grudge, I'm sorry, sir. Before a grudge, tennessee and well. And so actually for the money. It turned out to be a amazing investments worth a lot now get out of it. I have it hanging up on the wall behind me and I had it

saturday night live when George Harrison stopped by to say hi to all of us after an eye of parting with lorn, and it was in my office and its exact same year and model that george played on the tour for a second, I thought about running down again getting that guitar and showing it to him, and then I thought dont be that guy. Yeah can then then said I did not have one of those judgment calls. I think I made the right call. I think I think at that moment that was the right call, as I you know, to a tour. Like me, it was like offices, perfect I'll george the same make and model guitar, He would have seen a kid with some acne whose undernourished and a big pile of hair on his head shoving a guitar adam when, you know he could possibly open a closet at home and seven hundred grudges will fall out. So when your quick funny story now, I don't have time for that.

Yes, please so jack bates plays in the pumpkin, see play space fathers peter hook of joy division and new owner in an dab. They were touring and they had rented a vox and the ant blew up. It was from a rental company, so they knew now just take the impact of the rental companies. They took it somewhere to be repaired before they returned to the wrench, accompany any women, the guy. the chassis off they found scratched and into the main. George Harris alpha say was one of georgia stamps that had been stolen in sixty eight that he played unlike revolver and people thought was lost forever. and so then it was returned back to the rental company who then sold it, for you know some ungodly so but it's a whole story. I I was in nashville- and there was a famous guitar shop- that I was scoring during routers rs groans yeah. I remember We spend a few dollars in greece as well. They try to

you spend a few dollars at one point. They showed me somebody holly fanatic, and they showed me an app that belong to buddy and their share It's me, and then they took it off. He showed me where buddy had put is written and well, I fascinated by it and they let me plug it in, and I got to play that'll be the day on out. Stratocaster through that app, and so I was just is your pure joy was coming out my pours and then- he told me how much it was they wanted for it arise, and I could get this buddy owned it, but other than that. It's a fair to me. and old shit. You know- and I am and I could get that or who put one of my kids through college as a whole I think I made the wise decide what about it at auction Nineteen eighty two, I went to see Judas priests play and it was at a race track which,

we and down, and when I was in there it felt like a fire trap. It was one of them we're looking around off if something wrong here. I'm gonna die yeah, but it's issues, priest and so what a way to go, not bad yeah, juice, priests. Eighty two not a word about where to go, so I bought the pedal board, the kick it down I was using that day and the amp that he was playing. Those came up for auction site. I bought those, that's cool, so it's like a cool like you, it's like you can help me if you allow me at fourteen or something by the way you. What are you going on that up and have had a word from that guy? He viewed door yet not a bad, diego! it's like a weird way, your closing some mystical loop. That's how you feel. That's that's why I would be happy if you had bought because there's something that happens when you do stuff like that, it makes no sense at all, but extra confirmed some other thing. I'm telling you that your weak yeah

My only real regret in that regard was. I was at an auction ones, but we were shooting something in a rock n roll auction, elvis errand, firstly library card from humes, high school came up on the block and I was busy trying to pay. In the cameras and wasn't listening and now look out were like going wants. Twice and they didn't get the amount they wanted. So they took it off the auction and I don't know where it is now, but I would have paid a lot of money to have had that in my wallet for the rest of my life, and I missed it and of its whoever owns it. Let me now because you name the amount and I'll pay it less than body. I always am no! No! It's all different now, Kids, don't you know when I read you? Don't we asked you for you came if there three songs that for as they were, meaning for affected you in a certain way, come to mine here and were kind enough to to come up three tunes, and so let me just mention the first one:

and then we can just talk about? Why This all means to you and then we can play the song. That's the beauty a serious exam, the first you told us was wish you were here? Obviously pink floyd? What was it about that song that grabbed you grandmother who I was very close to on my mother's side. Why sir dying of cancer, de seven years old and I would have been seventeen so This was my first experience in life, for somebody was close to his dying and my mother and her her mother, the one that was dying were not close, so kind of cotton. That too, and as you do, you try to find something that you can hold onto and for some reason that song became the song, that thing it, sir, mord me into something and the lira doesn't really have anything to do with it, which is kind of interesting, but something about the emotional tenor of the sun really connected mean What's amazing his I've had it

sperience. Now countless and I'm always kalvanov it. people pull me aside. Tell me this song of yours when my kid whisper and when my room on the line that was song they got me through in and I go back to that moment, and it says why so we so humbling- because I understand like I was song saves your life, but it safe. Something keeps you that keeps you there. Yeah well, this song, it's it's interesting. You men shaped because I everybody knows a song so well as such an iconic song, I've always noticed, and I dont I'm not sophisticated, when it comes to music or mixing, but it's powerful the way it starts with that simple riff, and then it way it's layered the way I guess fearless into listening. Stereo. You here the original riff, and then these these complimentary wrestler coming in on the acoustic guitar, I think, you're in there and and the they're coming in differences and then suddenly,

hoping comes together and its nurse, what the radio backing up the only wanted, some like some existing on the radio. If you want to look more background, so when for it was induct in Iraq or hall of fame. I was asked to give a speech so I'm in my hotel room at the four seasons and there's knock at the door and its david Gilmore with no shoes on holding. You know guitar coming to teach me how to play the song tom. I am sorry to sit with him and tell him I can't really in a play. The song is the sun mean so much to me, and I had nothing to do with it, but they just decide the way, the sun and then, but they were at odds with roger so Roger wasn't there. The other three guys were and then years later. This would have been about for five years ago. Roger had done this thing where he was working with it veterans. Even a guy, explained drums triple amputee in Iraq, that's stuff. He put together this kind of band of that's playing, floyd songs.

So I got to plant stage with roger and sing wish you were here with roger and these that's enough sold out crowd in DC. So you wanna talk about pike. Full circle, like yeah pinch me, are you kidding me like and why this song and I mean I know I get it, but it's on some levelled like when a song me that much too and then you're standing with the people that wrote the song and played the sign its wild that's when you got back? That's when you, I always time travel in moments there anything like that. you know, for me, it's at wait up kid. In brooklyn massachusetts sitting on the heating great watching Can my tv and yeah, you know or gravity is trying to do yeah exactly know why he would have gone by them, but about watching like Andy Griffith or you know- watching any of these iconic performers are Carl Burnett and then how it that I'm with them now and they, even though my name that's the time, travel part that I mean for you. It's going back to you

illinois and you just like wait a minute. How can this be? I was that kid. It wasn't even allowed to touch my dad's guitar and now, individually members of pink floyd are teaching. He had a foot, he picked it up here. I am to put a bow on it. You know when you're in music- and you talk to journalists all the time they focus on How to stop the doesn't have anything to do with me is again a wire musician. It's all about the kuchma. Don't, like my fair question, tell us a funny tour story. You know tell us about the time he snorted calcraft strippers ass. You know right in What they don't really understand is when you were a kid my case and in Jimmy's case you're, an abusive home. You know literally no future latch key kids and youth suddenly something that Russia's doing floyd is doing. should animate in practice for hours a day, Anderson ammunition there's somebody waiting at the end of that rainbow, hey kid practice in some

you'll be on conan show. There's none of that right. Something in you! Animates like this is what I gotta do so when standing there with the people that got you out of the written basement. Isnt just like all. While this is cool, I'm paying with lloyd you like holy This is so crazy as its literally, is the embodiment of the dream. Yes, what's a religious experience? Yes, so in absolute, leaves pure spiritual experience where o the universe is something there is magic in the universe and then invariably got us in the guy with an office, he tells you it has nothing to do with magic, yeah, here's the p the paper right, I once had a guy it was like a business meeting. You mean that I pulls out a piece of paper and he goes well. We ve searched you in dumb, your bad as the one thousand and fifty fifty search banned on the internet right here,

now he's using it as a negotiating tactic to obviously get my price the area where kid? But if you really think about it, like even hit pause and were laughing cause. It's funny right, keep away. There's eight billion people on the planet: seven billion people you ve made music you're still in the point, o o o one percent out, and this guy still hidden you over the head with the fist, the skull down you go down. You girl, so doesnt. like it gets you the way I used it, but that's what I'm saying is is it You gotta know who you are in their yep. That goes back to the kid in the basement that you know when kids were out front. I have enduring memories. My brother love escape word when it wasn't popular in the eighties you and I and I remember on a summer s day, standing in my bedroom playing scales trying to being they mom Stena, watching kids play on the driveway and I often following your comes to

girl and I'm in the bedroom blue. In I mean why has anybody The right mine is out there with the cute girl skateboarding right, not in your bedroom, trying to bring in by modesty. So that's wicked. She through those moments, is like oh mother, fucker! You don't understand this ain't about that. I get that it's about. That- and I get we're here to sort it do. This dance was instituted this guy called dick dance it. Where you do that, dick dance about the money. But that's not why I'm here yeah, I'm a musician. I mean and trust me. It makes no sense at all to be a musician, none in the tech world. They call the dick dance a nagging. Yes, when you just say you know we're not really your stuff, isn't that good and Really not that you think we're. Why am I even I made in the meat? Why am I here I'll? Just go that's but that's the older, the older you get you get better at seeing. Why would I even out unhappy just walk away actually enjoy my family, so I was in one of his meetings once and guy was turned out that way, and I just looked

I must look mother fucker, you can't get rid of me. That's why you're talking to me, you can written me, you can't replace me- has nothing to do with my crooked teeth. I write It songs yeah. If you if you could get rid of me you would you get rid of me a harpoon. He said that's true, I, like that, I said, it's true. Yeah god bless right. Ass I'd. Rather I'd, rather more I'd rather be honest. Yeah you mean, though it is what it is. But So, let's give wish you were here out of them, found yeah, what's listen to it, Eduardo dear magic, the introducing the all new samsung galaxy tab S, nine ultra featuring their most powerful tablet processor. Yet it allows you to unleash greatness in every experience from gaming to streaming from creativity to productivity,

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That's better help, h e lp, dotcom, slash, colon the My question is: when you first heard that song it has. Very powerful hold on you. You go on to her All this knowledge and mastery of recording see. You know you know. the chair is made change? The way you hear the song? Yes, absolutely And what do you hearing your hearing choices they made in the studio economy? Floyd is hazing, with economy patience. of patients in a way that sort of belies their age. You know I mean when they make another alike in their probably twenties. When you say patients in what specific way they're not in a hurry to get anything like flow.

works in their own timescale, spur unique the way David as a way of playing. It underlines that you can literally sing along to its very rare for guitar player to solo, but not an o lanky way. and am a little way they can achieve things in their there's like the richards playing like little synth. size or brass. Even the end. Up to the wind at the earnest bits may with a synthesizer, that's not ruined. I think that's a synthesizer sound. So there were with artificial versus organic tones stuff like that, you can be a bit seeing the curse to know how the sausages made yes, deserts. Thinking is the euro. I spent most of my life thinking about comedy and thinking about. What's the funny way for something to happen, and so sometimes I'll be watching some, I like to lose myself in something. I don't want to be thinking that way and sometimes I'll see. Oh they're doing thing now and How can you illustrate went like like gimme, a comedy that thing

oh, ok, I mean I can think of a specific example east. I want to I liked to learn some just gimme illustration of like let it get like there are We can in the pumpkins we call it a gag yeah in it and in the world if comedy I mean they're all kinds of things that are is the way things are done, one the call back you introduce something, and then, it you you bring it back in later on and sometimes it's done really artfully, and sometimes the call back is used in kind of a cheap way to kind of scuse. Another laugh here so remember that scuba diver that peered in the window earlier in the sketch you're going to see him later on? Ah and ah, and sometimes it's earned- and sometimes it's not earned. Sometimes it's the exact right thing to do, and sometimes people are just doing it to do it. And so you, when you sometimes when and unearned call back or you something that I just can't you didn't need that and then my wife is saying why why use he over, you know what I'm just words

I do enjoy this episode of who's. The boss, but in the band we call it the power discernment right. So only somebody in the game knows where the line is right in russia We call it cheap heat, she peters I can't believe I'm in indianapolis. This is the biggest. Shit hole. I've ever been in. You know, boo, that's tp, not very artful right. I I and it gets him booing. It makes me happy yeah, but but yeah, see that even the art of something you yeah watch she pete. You know sheep laughs know exactly what the real laugh right right. Well, it, sir. I guess it's a bit of it not very to have? No, no that I don't mind it it's true, because I remembered having we did something: it rehearsal and it did really well remember. Robert smuggle, our enow original. Had writer coat. You know, co creator on on the late night show he was saying

at lose that and some of same buddy did really well rehearsed, like you got a big laugh any one year. We don't want laughs like that, and I find damn. Ok, that's true, Oh, I admire that shit ike, Do you have a laugh, but yours, there are laughs, you know like weak, if the bottom line, it's it's not unlike what you were talking about before, where someone's telling you the numbers We all know that when we done something when we ve done good work, we know it you just and so, if you did anything to add official sweeteners are doping it makes. You feel sorry about that. Mr the same yeah like we have enough successful music that we can quickly there are set, was that we know people will and like and probably by tee shirts as waste back in chicago, no shit, Sherlock arena, but the art is giving them

something that they didn't know that they wanted and having them leave and say that was a richer experience than I thought coming and if they just play the songs that I now there's big event, you know this event a there's, an event for the museum of natural history that there a lot of money and all the bigwigs on the upper east side and west side of manhattan go there. I had in they asked people to perform at it, and I think I did it at least once and get music- and I there once just I didn't, have to perform psycho just watch and it Tom, petty and the hard breakers were performing. It came time for, to do their music and you know it Imagine the richest room you can think of people are in tuxedos and everyone's gonna have their picture taken and it's gonna be in the most elite magazines that who showed up. This thing in billions, there were have their name. Carved into the wall and tom penny got up there. The harbours and they didn't do one here.

everything was a deep cod and I was so happy? And I tell dad Tom petty, didn't give a shit. He was like I'm gonna play you the deepest of the deep cuts, I'm gonna do the stuff that I want to do you I can get won't back down you're not going to get. You know, free fall and you're not going to get. You know any of those american girl you're not going to get one of those fuckin songs like I dunno it made me really happy to watch them. Do that yeah I mean I, and only kind had I've been in those situations and I've done that version of at thing in the situations and got a lot of heat for it. Yeah yeah and I've done the other thing where you're doing what everybody wants you to do and you're just thinking, I'm just such a sell out like get me off this island yeah will the next song is metallica. Had he made interesting choice? Yes, because

believe this song fade to black. Was there first power. Ballad set further say I saw an interview with lars talking. We about how was controversy, because metallica used acoustic guitars and it wasn't very metal of them yet lars was just here oh, very keen on the podcast and levellers. Oh, my god. It was good time and our economy says metallica, I guess the irish yes and he says metallic alot yeah, you does it big part of his life yeah gutless, but I've been saying every terrorist metallic I kind of chuckle yeah has He says metallica like he says: metallic, yes, votes with pride of ownership in the ways that without which is that for him, the key Pronunciations, wealthier, not metallica, metallica in this song. You know, I think this Their second is their second album, yes and rivalry. yeah right, lightning, nineteen, eighty four and

this is then taking a big chance cause it, sir, it the coup, it's an acoustic song but starts out of it. as an acoustic song, but then it goes to the fitly bit yeah, which is a technical term which, in the industry the fiddle for theirs fiddles yeah joint amuse on this or sars, and where will the euro aside, I got kicked out of my house, my dad. I think he wasn't in jail at that point, but he was in some form of jail. Ike work release you, gotta, be in there in the jail at night, which could be out during the day and he was living with us anymore. And then I got kicked out by my stepmother sign up living with this drug dealer. Adam I have this enduring memory where I latch on. The song, because it seemed it some up, I was going through this kind of excess the crisis in my life and its image, look alive and I'd seen the power of what they were creating, but I live

sounded the song and this back in the day of the boom box, and so I remember sitting at the geiss kitchen table MR fiddle. Seeds, other out of the we'd, be set itself it too young. girls and that's the story for another day I was plain the song over and over and over again like, I must have played it ten times in a row and he came down and he was like you can eat like he threw me out from listen songs, sometimes like I play so they went from rug dealer through you out yeah I was. I was that's how it no I was thrown out of my house and and because of this song I was thrown out of the drug there's house, where I was living by tell ya it's it's. interesting, because it Sometimes a ban creates a song. That's like like your time what your tears him before here. The sun is when I loved the beatles, but it seems to me and here comes- the sun seems almost like time beyond the beatles and to me this is one of those songs from attack at that. Like somehow beyond the band right at second-

like a movie unto itself, so yeah in what a song jameson It's talent songwriter in well to say other than it's it's it's. It seemed to sum up what I was going through at the time when we listen to it and see what it would it brings up. They, the blacks, I never understand when I watch metallica how they can there's, so much syncopation there. That has to be so precise, and I don't stan how they can do that without a conductor do not mean it's, it's really incredible to me. Yes, it's a feel thing when you play that type of music. I love it working there. I think he thinks I was me, but now he's gone. I may, if that's not, seventeen year old. I'm not saying he was seventeen when he wrote it, but I'm saying that's when you go after that, yeah yeah I mean I still get that I still get the feels on the list great take you back when you hear that. Can you go, but you go time travel back to that point. I have a weird thing and I,

Never heard it explained scientifically, but I have I am going glimpse with the way to put it. I have a holographic memory one insta music. So when I can put myself back in time and place clean when I heard the song- and I have almost like total recall, which is how I produce records I'll be in the studio. Not think like. I want the feel of faded. Black not that I wanted to make that song I want that feeling, I'm able to recall the emotional feeling residents of it, what it what I was getting from, that I am able to recreate at my own music. So it's it's a weird gift. If you can, you can call it that it might be a curse. Sometimes there are now no action. I think it's really quite remarkable and I have no explanation. I've never seen and explain and Crazies Jimmy chairman has something very similar, which is I think that we have always worked so well together, as he has the similar ability to do that, but on the drums it's weird thing but yeah. I can I I I literally could go on for fifty

minutes on what I was thinking when I heard that song at seventeen at the table for the drug dealer came down like musically feeling not like was having a bad day. We did this same thing with neil young, where we played Neil was sitting right where you're sitting and we played some music he sent in some music that I don't think he had listened to or thought about for a really long time, and it was stuff that he was listening to in canada and the fifties del shannon by chance wasn't wasn't del shannon remember it was, and there were like really. It was very folky, some of it yeah ian and sylvia yeah. It was tyson yeah yeah for entrance, but yeah those that's a great version. I know he covered that at one point and it was fascinating too, because it's very similar to what watching neil, listen to those songs and he would do what you're doing, which has closed his eyes and really go there, and then he he came out of it after one song and it was like you, I said warp where, where you write that- and he went- I remember there was a he described,

jukebox and him standing there, and it was. In a whatever ever was a nickel that could put end play the song and he had a whole pocketful of them he was standing there and he would just feed the men and play it over and over and over again that was his only access to the song and in his one of his other memories, was underneath the covers he could get this one radio station. That would play a member. I think there is some rocket billy song by Ganem. Ronnie self was yet bonnie lena, oh my god. That's it the killer saga- and I had never heard it before before in america. Billy fanatic and I never heard bob billina. I didn't know Maroni self, who had kind of a very strange career outside the lines and never really quite made it and things din and happily for him, but just but him just frat time travelling back to he's, not neil young, the neil young. We know he's a kid and he's in something

in canada, where no one's ever going to be a rock star, that's not going to happen and he's got the covers up and it's late at night and he's supposed to be asleep. But he's got his transistor radio and he's hearing song and so to me it's very mystical and powerful to be able to sit with people while they listen to these songs. Yeah. Maybe some universal language that people with me mobility speak here. The I mean I've like a set up. I find it fascinating that journalists never talk about that, which is why I like talking about it, because it's like it's ninety percent of my experiences. What we're talking about here right and not all the other stuff, not throwing a tv out the window of the hotel room? No, I mean that stuff's fun, but because if it doesn't pay the girl I was eager and what, if someone's in the pool the last song is joy. Division- and I have to admit I didn't I- didn't know much about joy, division, wig,

get china on the joint vision to yeah, and I I didn't know, and then you brought this song and of course I know a lot now more about joy division now in and would have really tragic story. It was very much so yeah Just their lead singer, guitarist, we've. Also the songwriter or co writer. They wrote, they wrote together, they re wrote the lyrics yeah and just how he suffered from apple. Obscene depression and just what a talking twenty four years old yeah, you killed him so yeah and I believe- and I think it's true as it was like on the eve of there. You are to where they were just about to come to the? U s, and I think he was under a lot of pressure and he was legitimately worried that he would have cause. He seizures we're getting worse and worse and he was gonna have a seizure onstage in front of people so clearly someone who just terrible low,

to carry between that disease and depression and everything, but made this fantastic music and Clearly, this level tear us apart, speaks to you I start making the argument back in the nineties that joy division was probably the second most important band behind the beatles in the twentieth century, and when I made the argument back, then people kind of would make a face like kinda sorta. Now, people, I think, have kind of come around to it, and what is it that specific was? It was the originality it was well if you're aware of it, while lot of people now would call it like post punk or something, but what it really is is is, d I Y musicians create great music. Without the conventional structures of music. If you think about like your tongue, morocco, billy, ok, almost Rocca billy's, based on one four five. Yet you know toolbar blues stuff like that buddy how he is. probably predominantly one four five, but he's master added. So imagine that star all starts in the fifties

I've succumbing to jump, lose in the forties, tiburon, walker and stuff like that and count bases. and then, by the time you get to the end of the late seventies. You know rock and roll kind of pretty much run out of steam zeppelins at the end, but who are not at the end, but you know you could say their greatest, work is behind them. Here comes punk and you have all these people suddenly. side. It doesn't matter how well you play yup as long as you want to get up on staging. You got some some moxie, the crowd will sort of except you. So out of that comes top heads and cure in psychedelic fur. Listen ash modin, but joy. Division to me was the greatest of them all they capture secular form of nihilism. That's really hard to get it in a way that and feel marcus or childish. There's an adult net. to it. But that's not really word but there's sobriety and seriousness to it and and because they were

Manchester manchester is the chicago of england, jerry working class and in its worth, pointing out that you know not the same but the same area. That's where sabbath came from it's it's a certain kind of doom It's, not the doom of hopelessness, it's the doom of like, oh, my god, like is this the life you I meant to live. living in the shadow of the then plan or the whole plant early. He now in nobody around them- is andrew sir drinkin, there's no future, no hope all that stuff. So punk really was this kind of cry against like fuck it all. and somehow that comes this really be for language. That's held up really really well and level terrorist part to me as this perfect pops for people who are not trying to write perfect pop song. Since such a strange thing, I have them so henry darker enough. You know that artists, folk artist, he he was. He was an itinerant

sort of janitor an orphan group in an orphanage basically for fifty years painted these beautiful paintings, but no one ever saw, and then we found a bright before he died. Now they're worth hundreds of thousands of dollars, but it's the idea that there is a certain if you give. If you take so buddy, who doesn't know how to make art and you they just make art like a child. Would that there's a different type? you did that emerges out of the innocents and purity without haven't you at art, school right, so enjoy division is the great embodiment of like thirty anti beetles, with a beetle, is about craft and consciousness and worrying about you know the way that's in front of them and try figure out how to interface with joy division goes completely. The opposite way creates music of you could argue of equal importance that still fifty years leaders in up still inspiring people, so how many times did they do they just have one or two? I think three algorithms, global terrorist pricing was cut off towards the end of that particular

dark before even killed himself and then only thing I would add to this- is that in joy division than morphed and a new order, and of course everybody knows no order. They became more successful pop. And using synthesizers and stuff like that and really created a completely different musical language, but when they re formed in two thousand wine. They called me and said we're going on the steward. You wanna come play guitar with us on the tour. So when we would play so did six shows with them. but they were there were going out his new order, but for the first time since I think I could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure first time since he had died in two thousand when they decided to play joy division on stage with them bernard singing, imagine. I mean rehearsal with them in liverpool everywhere and we. you play the new order, songs, they're playing with the backing track, synthesizers all that, but when they would pay the joy division, the renault backing tracks now, I'm stage with joy division, now the best work and explain it is I've been on stage with cheap trick?

I played at the rock and roll hall of fame with three quarters of pink floyd, when you stand on stage with la band and you're in the middle of that, it is in. Tanzania has now you're in the three dimensional space of their world you're in the record with them. Every time, I'm getting goosebumps telling you about this every time. I'm in rehearsal and on onstage every time we played level terrace apart, I would get, whose flesh by nobody would go into complete like I cannot but If I am not talking about a fan experience like oh, my god, I'm playing with joy division, unlike I'm in them in I'm in this song and I'm experienced. inwardly what I experienced as a listener, and it ten times more intense in thing here than outward, so I mean yeah. This is the real deal this one to me right. What's the letter rip, love will tell us apart, joy divisions. when you plan on that song. What were you? What was your? we playing rhythm, we playing do remember what you are doing. They, like

Do whatever I wanted to do and m. It was kind of funny cause they're there that world of everybody just do what they feel. but I was getting in the kind of sacrosanct territory where they created the speed the thing and at times We get. These sidelong looks like kind of going the spaces. You shouldn't go sounds a little bit of a negotiation sure but invariably I settled on the idea of like I get it, because I've been in that situation is a bandleader like this is, it goes, but there's a delicate. What's grit about it. Isn't whether or not I play the right note in the right spot is where it's coming from your heart, and so invariably I think they failed to sign a let it go, and many a god better. In essence, they, let me do my thing. They worried about with when they were doing and then started to click and then and then just kind of it. It was what it was there's something

about an again, I don't have the words for it, and I might nothing, but when listen to this song it almost the vocals are mixed there almost I mean I'm not used to it, but usually the vocals on when you listening to a song or so present, and here their unusually. Ah, submerged almost there just under the surface a little bit. We're which is kind, What makes it more hunting you know yeah. It strikes me because when you listen to it, it's not a perfect recording it, not perfectly mixed, can't hear every lyric. And yet, one of the most famous songs of the twentyth century, and it really It's me of what I said when I was in ducking pink floyd in the in the rock and a hall of fame. Nobody was looking over. My shoulder, I could say whatever I wanted, and one of the lines I said in there was some strikes me- that the ban- conducting tonight- is

when the greatest selling bands of all time and created one of the best selling albums of all time- dark side of the moon, which is essentially conceptual record that I think only really produced the one hit, which was money, which is a song in five four, not necessarily a waltzing matilda. You know not necessarily right, you can't really dance to it and- and I and I look It was meant to be a funny line, but like with up with a little bit of a ship behind it, and I said, and by the way They made that album at the height of disco. and I said I know everybody- and I know that many people in this room that are totally responsible for disco, and I haven't forgotten you, and I won't forget your name, and there was this weird like when those like you, motherfucker, laughs, yep yep, like how dare you say that yeah, the point is we're talking about. in our own way, and it's always to find the language were time, a magic comedy

magic. Music is magic. What makes people laugh? His lot talk these days, be If you know woke politics about you can see. This can't say that I mean art is post to get into the uncomfortable space. Yes, it is just the fact, like you were talking about in spoke being mixed low. Did that make you listen differently? Did it make you pay a different attend, really got my attention when I, when I was listened to the song and, of course, I've heard the song many times but have really noticing that accidents it's the same thing in comedy and music and probably a lot of things accidents or where the gold is. You know, and I don't know if it's an accident, but you said maybe they didn't makes it correctly, but it certainly eggs, the song is much more hunting that, whether it so as you say, engineering error some one, not one guy onsartin rich, but I think those are all intentional choice saga and I just it's it's to me that was arresting

really got my attention that kiss you know it was like- I think, I can hear him, but he's really back there were on or on the precipice of ay I come to taking over a bunch of things right and and I'm alright out. The ring in the clarion bell that once kid get their hands on a I as a songwriting tool, it's over for the organic process of songwriting, because if you fifteen I ten thousand hours listening to the beatles, enjoy division, to learn how to write a song verses. You can sure button is gonna, give seven options, and then you could pick the best option off of that right and then you can refine that and press another button. It'll tell you a better version of what you think is a good version and all that it's over or we will and I'm just saying this, and when those kind of you not sick, I feel, like in robarts would star in the movie I'm about to the right We will not around anymore, you may have to do it. I guess They play gees robarts in the movie. But what I'm trying to say is with a guy gives the warning nip up.

hey by the way you really want to live in the world where you're willing to give up level terrorists apart the imperfectly may the perfect song. Are you willing to give that up for all this other perfect shit, which isn't that great- and Actually we ought. We know in human nature that, yes, they will yeah, but I can you, see where you were gonna, have a. I start, writing their jokes. Oh sure, writer, hey, I gimme gimme fifty jokes on grandma in the kitchen yeah. You know me. But something that their ever it's got everybody's attention, the mean everybody on the record this there's a writer strike going on and that this is one of the issues. People are afraid of is what's coming up ahead and can these what happens when these big companies realise we don't really Let me have already been made. There are not trying that guy, but I'll, be that guy today I think the decision has already been made? I mean It's easy to say it like this like Chicago.

it's over row in a mean, but it's over which the ship's already sailed. That's why, when you see, people are going about. Twenty dollar minimum wage will mcdonald just open the first fully automated mcdonald's. It's over, like all that stuff over we're gonna have. to adjust to a new economy on re, scalable level I mean are already people talking about worship, in a high ass, a god. The purely people talk but like it's a religious thing like there's, there's a jason, robarts movie right right so I am at least glad I lived in the other world before I go to this other one. So at least I'll have the memory, and I could tell my children what it was like to so the joint vision and they're not gonna, be listening to you. I will, have taken over that to you as I advocate ITALY will not be parenting. These children, maybe that's a good thing. I take what story. So I made a mistake: it's a fine game, so

thing against nintendo, but I made the mistake of buying into intend to switch I've a seven year old son in a four year old daughter, so coarse ali On a job is plain and tender. They said and tender so many times. I said can't say the word nintendo anymore, but you can, you can refer to is as Nana, so they come up and the goat, dad we play not anna as they are same, intend overruled Their gas is applying Nana yeah so where was I with her I think everyone out you reprogram that nobody there we got a soaked would maybe good. Now when it comes to, how can we play none? I got let's go to the area. Yeah the sorry. I love you. You know cop, the conan, the conan shaggy, yeah. I get you have your own you have your own. I gotta conan, I don't have you know Figured out the main cause

as when it when I desire all ready. Yet I, MR their hopes and dreams. Italy's come with a right comment. Yes, yes, they and I'm sure whether its serious or whoever they ve already doesn't there's a room where they figured out my vocal town, just the right retaining the many just released. I haven't listen to it, but somebody released and a version of Kirk Cobain singing a pumpkin, some real yeah. I've listened to it. Yet today. The song today do want to listen to it, or do you use it? When I was six you you'll, they have no interest in it because it because it's sort of like it. not kurt yeah. Well, it's also a parlor trick right, yeah, yeah yeah. I don't want parlor tricks. I mean cheap heat right right like if I came to see you and you just gave me a bunch of lame jokes. That's not why I'm coming to see you later the gatt, ok guys I added, I worked better anyway. I've. Never I dont know dice interfering and I've seen dice perform, live a cup

I never laughed so hard in my life. I felt like he was in my brain sayings. that is the key has a way of sinks up there, not even funding. Yes, he did what he says it in a way that so insidious, it's like planning mine virus bombs in my head, and I may I could I saw bob's mood is tony clifton, yes yeah! I I laughed so hard. I got mad yell at him yeah and I know I'm a little bit personally. I wanted to strangle him right because I was like stop making me laugh at this other kind of be level that you can only you can do. Yes, I know exactly what you're talking about dice has a thing where there's a famous recording of him bombing in a club, and he calls it the night. The laughter dad is so fond egg. Listen to it to take yet so funny, because he's doing his thing in theirs is not getting anything back, and I like that, better than hearing some. Would you know you got a purpose? Yes, yes, because it rick reuben who produce. That said, he didn't

recruitment thing with the beard and buddha good erect and at work because I knew we knew dice and he was obviously there when dice was headliner arenas and all that stuff, and he did that you gotta the army really got to listen to his the night comedy died or whenever yoga that shit is funny and if so, when appropriate. Yet it when you wanna talk back, I mean it's there's about eight. Well things in their to accounts. There's a famous die story that I love that might make sweeney. One of my great writers tells, but it was dying in a club before he had. You now become big star, and he did borrowed some one part of someone else's act because he didn't have the rest of his act that night and he was still putting all the other new borrowed, someone else's act and the person, in front of him afterwards and said. Like hey man, you took some of my stuff when he went. Ah, he said: hey. I'm trying to make it. I don't have time

That's an excuse in away, I kind of like ok, it's so audacious have time to fuck around. We got. All this because we have, we have talked And I have to get you back to your life. You know I don't have a life, I'm just here, I exist. here and like a broth, my gun rain floating in a tank, they won't. Let me go, but I was really looking forward to this, and you met all my speculation, exceeded them, you're, just a great power the top. You didn't cry, though them incapable of than I did you ever criner. I don't think so. not that I remember I don't I'm irish, We hide all that yeah, I'm don't I'm predominate. Irish yeah We know that all we hear that it's all been, it was beat.

Of us in the eighteen hundred yeah exhibits that that ship sailed a long time ago. This was this was great thank you and I loved having an I swear to god. I'm at this point in my life, where the thing I prize the most does that I get to you and I have crossed paths in the past, but to get sit with you and really have a conversation is magical and meaningful to me. So thank you for doing this. It most of our conversations were in loud clubs the out with really desk gold digging people. You never really got to get to the deep stuff. Until today, this was really special. and I just want to reiterate that there You have so much going on item, which is our iraq opera in three parts. Is your latest what's latest volume your continuing their journey? I think so yeah. Well, you know melancholy and infinite sadness. Son machina, you know like

is carrying your carrying on. In that That story and you have a tour. The world is a vampire tour starts July, twenty eightth, and ago incorporate some rustling. We will have thing on the road I spent most of the data on the oldest russell. promotion world the nba so does fantastic its own. We should we will. We should do resting park like yeah yeah. That could be a separate eyeing. I can involve too, but I ain't some other time, but I I got some good stories for you. There I'll show you a clip one day of me. I was sad taping weird comedy down in mexico city and I take the whole single browser, LUCA door. I have I had the whole thing at the mask and I they were teaching me how to do it, and I I had the time of my life, I absolutely loved it's an interesting world, I'll, throw on a mask and come on and and Russell while you play where there was red steam. I think it was known as the red bearing make something I could do that

he's passed away now you could be the red baron, too yeah people will say I'll, be masked. No one will know it's me, but they'll say not at all something's, very wrong with that man's body and and also the podcast. So we finish that now and weeks where there's thirty three episodes of, but you can still hear him yeah yeah yeah, but ninety three was no longer in we're no longer in contemporary time, but who is that I get to

there. Then I know you are you I feel like you pose some sort deeper question I can answer. I got a good way to end. Will just leave it on a hanging hanging, a part, a scholar, whatever it's gone, billy. Thank you. So much like iran is appreciated. Conan o Brien needs a friend with conan o Brien synonymous s hand and mac worthy produced by me. Mad goarly executive produced by adam sacks neatly out and Jeff Ross, a team, cocoa and colony anderson and cody fisher. At your wolf theme, song by the white stripes incidental music, by jimmy the vienna takeaway Jimmy, are supervising producers and Blair and our associate talent, producers, jennifer samples, engineering by Eduardo Perez additional production support by mars, melick talent. Looking by polish avis, Gina, battista and great com, you can rate and review the show, an apple podcast, and you might find your review read on a future episode. Gotta question for conan call the team cocoa hotline at three two three, four five one. Two eight to one and leave a message. It too could be featured on a future episode and if you have an already, please subscribed to current o brien needs a friend on apple podcast, nature or wherever fine, by cast down.

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