Welcome to the Commentary magazine Daily Podcast, I'm having trouble figuring out today, is for the first time we are tabling this early. I think tomorrow I think today it is thirty, may fourteen twenty, because we are actually doing this Wednesday there about six o clock on the thirty If I'm John PA towards the other commentary magazine with me, as always, Senor under a green waldheim, high John Senor, render Christine rousing high Christine

John Associate ever know Rossman High Noah. I got an joining us today from from walk down, in LOS Angeles, where he will be under lock down until the coming of the Messiah shipping commentary. Twenty nineteen Rosty Ben Shapiro hosted the Ben Shapiro, show Bessel Ling, authored the father of three husband of a doctor, hello Ben. How are you a good so ban? We, we were excited to talk to you because you are apparently living under circumstances, perhaps still even more draconian than the ones that we have been living under in.

New York with your city, LOS Angeles counties, health commissioner, apparently declaring the term LOS Angeles, is going to remain under lock down forever she's an illustrious have expert and is it is what I have learned from her resonate, which involves things like communications degrees from the University of California Santa Cruz in an education degrees from University of Massachusetts, as it is very, very impressive sort of stuff. It's it's. The experts in the experts like her and gonna fuck that I think that we should all be really listening to describe what were never going to stop blocking down a sort of the planet. The state and the same California has said that for countless to stop lockdown you're supposed to have no casualties recover nineteen for fourteen days, which means that presumably my great great grandchildren, one day far into the future, may have the opportunity to leave their houses in LOS Angeles. If we don't leave perceived Jordan Radical out about this event ass, they were due to attack the statistics just to see. If there had been.

A week in a way county, which is a county of ten million people to see if there is a weak and it has for years in which somebody had not died of pneumonia or the flu there has not been actually so since people it turns out. I in an account you ten million people. I think that we should. We should probably be welded into our homes, chinese style forever, because no one ever guys at home either. As is another thing that word only few venture out your front door. Will you die when when a palm tree, false idea will end or covered silent ass, you have always a hold on as yet have Abe. Yes, you were listening to marry Mario Andrew Cuomo, today, yes and yesterday and new in terms of giving your home ended and the danger in you discovered something that is kind of startling about the health stats Right This is true so Como into today's daily briefing when he gives always lay by the way being when's. Also Wednesday,

yesterday, how everything, as years hearing the sorry granite ball to run, he updates, new Yorkers on all the latest covert related statistics and in addition to new hospitalizations new debts, new innovations, he was discussing the breakdown of those new Yorkers in New York, state tested for anti bodies, and it turns out that bus drivers, prison workers, health care workers and police officers. All test as having are are less likely to have

positive for the covert antibodies than the general population, which leads me to believe that staying home, it's gotta be the least safe, possible options and at least at least by at least mathematically. I have. No, I ll know acknowledge up way last week was that for full, two thirds of people who are being newly admitted into hospitals for covered infections had been coming from home non essential workers, not traveling. As far as everybody knows, right, a truck and and and very few, it turns out tat any tiny percentage of new cases come from those who have been taking public transportation in New York City to something like two or three points. In a much more say, regard to the of chasing that the zero case scenario before reopening the ban was describing I'm at least relieved to you're, someone say it out loud because that has been the implicit or

of all this- that no one is safe and whenever you say, but whenever I say we're, never gonna get down to zero people say no, one saying the route that we're trying to get to know cases no one said we're not gonna get to know debts? We just want to get down to a manageable point that we can then track and trace the the remaining cases. But finally, it comes out Well, we're we're looking for zero islands. I understand the impulse. It's also not gonna happen Ben? I want to know how long it took you to Google the directions to the Arizona border. Yet on the other side of the border. The gems are open. At the end of the week, Pool

We are opening up a lot of facilities, otherwise retail facilities and recreational facilities are open. Raw major sports, professional sports are gonna, be allowed to play. So it's it's a universe for a difference for hours away from where your are the idea. I have so many friends who are calling youth and last week in saying we're looking at real estate outside a California dead there looking to to get out, and part of that is the lock downs, but a large part of that is the public policy combined with a lack of. So I have two friends inside the last forty eight hours who have arrived in some way. Somebody came up to somebody's. Nobody rob them tribute of winter. There mailbox took their stopped. My friendship reuben that happened. You friend down ah come a walk away from it. I his next door neighbor his brother, actually had three guys break into his house. While he was home and be in my neck, like my good friend pulled out a shot, it's yours, brother, yelling from next door, ends and wrap the shotgun, and these three guys to cut down the street LAPD shows up and elegant. He says: well, I'm not sure what the point about investing

This is because we put these people in jail. There's a Nobel role in a way right now so but you're just gonna be out on the streets immediately. So, what's the point of us tracking people who were in your your brother's apples down- and so my frank armies like I'm out here, because he also happens to be a landlord out here and one of the rules that they are not pushing in a way is that you are not supposed to pay rent one of them. That is the real reason. The unspoken reason that they're talking lockdown until August is not because they actually think Americans are gonna lockdown into long as nobody and always walking down. I mean that there is traffic on the roads outrage about thirty percent of normal and people are out of the parts. People are going back to the office, people move the feet are doing the talking, but the real

Why do you like now? The support supervisors is saying that lockdown as they have a legal excuse now to tell people they do not have that they read until the beginning of August, which of course means the landlords are getting a jack economic, unlike a mortgage where just add months to the back and mortgage or something I wear when it I'm not ready to give one you're losing your lease expires. Exactly how do they expect the landlords are gonna go after the back rent? That's that's just money. That's gone is never going to appear again, so everything is basically geared towards destroying business in the city of LOS Angeles and there, the media environment, which basically suggests that if you walk down more heavily than we can never blame you for anything bad. That happens because Cove is to blame for the economic

on terms downturn, but only you allowing people to go out of your house is to blame for people by that Thou logic has become so pervasive. I think for for a lot of democratic politicians, particularly that you're getting what what I was referring to yesterday. There were two days ago on Twitter, I too, and that this sort of a locked down infinity competition that my kids play with each other at Lahti on lockdown plus, a hundred lockdown plus two hundred lockdown infinity walked out, has been plus one and so Eric our said. He is going to engage in that came with the mayor of San Francisco. Imagine until there are no people left here and will do. I planned of the AIDS will be trials and has been just wandering the beaches. Looking for the statue of liberty well in there. But this is a really important point, because we are at this transition period, where we're starting to think about opening up and really running to open up and Howard different states. Trying to open up right now is exactly the moment where you're gonna see people who have the skin and the game with bureaucratic over

Reed's doing just that this happening and allay it's happening? I mean Disease Mayor today, which is Wednesday. One say, announced an extension of our lockdown. We were supposed to be out of lucked out on me, fifteenth the now we're going into June, but they There are incentives, not just the belief, ones are you mentioned Ben, but also a kind of policy incentives for them too? the lockdown going right. I mean there is, if you have, if you come from a very anti business standpoint, which some of our civic leaders do there's a weird kind of schadenfreude watching all this stuff happens right. If you think that people who own property had rented out or evil again, you see this as a kind of you know, karmic come up and in a way in some of language you're. Seeing coming from these leaders now hints at that night, I expect within a few weeks, Seeing them be a lot more honest about it lets depressing

Neither am I locked out extended, I'm depressed, but I mean I think it's very interesting about went because you know We need the hatred of the landlord is a serve trope dating back forever on the left, and has this idea supporting it that there is something illegitimate about having to pay for where you live or having to pay for where you work that it's like a human right to be able to have the Euro have something that your own, that you don't have to pay for, and yet at poetic

take your early in a city like LOS Angeles, and certainly by the way, to see you like New York, where I think there's lesson this- that the pressure is always on on on forbidding landlords from raising rent. That's that's that's the game in New York, but that you know how many homeowners rent out in a basement apartment, how many people went out in one place own something and rents else out and are looking at and there like, they're they're the same as everybody else. They have to pay, they have to pay for upkeep and- to defray their own mortgage costs on a property they own and then their out that money and then in three months they there can be proceedings against them because they are not renters their owners and then I property can be seized for non payment of a lion put on it or something like that, and then their ruined.

There are a lot of people want. People were very very excited the ability to try out theories that that they ve had in their heads, but have never actually got the chance to try out were worse, urging this broad national level with modern monetary Eric had the idea we can just spent and lastly, in there will never be any consequences? Do it and so Nancy, plus you proposing a three trillion dollar package that is chopped full of goodies like what's bail out all the states that sign crappy pension contract but I read level wanna unaware that you're giving rambles let one of you guys saw that that editorial in your paper of note in your very parochial nor time, basically suggesting that the big problem in New York with the future of New York is the ratification of the city of New York. Who are really needs to happen? Is the government needs to pay to build affordable housing in the richer enclaves of New York City, to make sure that the people who are in the poor enclaves in New York City, which have health Inequalities they couldn't help inequities are able to move into richer. Areas of this is not going to have the very predictable externalities of every.

In the richer areas promptly picking up in the dark city, which is exactly, of course, what happened in the nineteen seventy nine eighty is when people tried of workable housing policies, it is pretty incredible to watch. People use this pandemic as an excuse to enact their priors, and that's it that's why you're, seeing the backup I really do think that did the backlash is only getting or a stronger because we are willing to go along with it. I was willing to go along with this I'm kind of cautious and risk averse by nature. I apparent for sixty four among go along with lockdown so long as I think that the policy is actually gear for protecting people, going to go along with lockdown, when I feel that the policy has now shifted into dont. What I could crisis got waste and I am increasingly feeling I wanted. I want to talk about that little bit because of what sense you get to the extension Kindlier in touch with it from

the ground that these conditions are tolerable. The media environment nationally is to regard anybody who who questions or is chafes under these very intense locked on provisions, as around dismissible group of malcontents who otherwise don't represent virtually anyone in a little further down the coast. You had something of a of a protest movement than a Huntington, a couple of weeks back when the beaches were being, closed and only now are they being reopened. You're not allowed to sit on your beach by the way the beaches are opened by you, but you can't sit upon them. Lord knows what going to enforce that they are my children from a cannon from the back of my far into the ocean, and then my plan is to immediately jumping after them and pick them up and throw them back and are no tells or anything. If there be touched the ground. The ground is lava. If there be touched the ground, then they have sinned against the city of LOS Angeles and must therefore be given in human.

Sacrifice like their residence in the city of the state of Georgia, so I'm very excited that'll shed some calories, some some lockdown way, you'll get rid of it very exciting stuffy I mean, I think, that you have to understand a magazine in on the EAST coast in and deceit should understand that the capacity for hypocrisy but there's a reason. The California has the highest taxes in America and also, The highest number of deductions taken on federal taxation and in the same thing holds true. When it comes to lock down. Policies of you asked Californians how many of your pro lockdown neglect yeah. Absolutely we gotta do what we can in order to slow the spread, its really import. We keep hearing from the experts

I got trumpet and those those crazy right, wingers we gotta do all we can to lock this thing down into people, just don't care about human life and then, due to eighty five degrees outside, like it's really nice out here and it's Sunday, and you know what I'm gonna beat beat me up amazing capacity to hold those two thoughts at once, only its unique to two away. I think you're starting to see it across the country, and so I just I frankly, don't trust the wild appointed on this stuff. I also untruss how the poles are worded. I think that a lot of appalling is is worded. Wake are you? Are you ready to come up afforded safe or are you willing to walk down until it is safe and those that binary wording is completely is completely ridiculous in the actual question is: are you willing to come out of your home if you're it? Your guarantee that if your below the age of forty in your chest of death or two and ten thousand, are you willing to come out of your house? And the answer is yes and by the way, those to the actual oz view dying if you're, under the age of forty in your number existing

condition so little I might in bugaboo my biggest baboon. All of this is the refusal public health officials to actually explain your risk factor based only based on population group, to which I belong here. Report through the Washington Post say things like after eight years old, yeah, there's a good probability dear to me. Get second may die, but if you're younger, it could happen to you do it could happen. You do I mean, like I'm sorry there, eighty one years old, yes, there better probability, you're going to die overall like overnight it, and if a thirty, you could also die, but we all understand that the other slightly different, I think, beyond the hypocrisy that we're talking about is a very telling one too.

Because I think it. It stems from this idea that, yes, I want to state to keep me safe if it it's it's the state's responsibility to look after me do what it can it mess this up in the first place me up, I'm I'm that's a different story, I'm I'm going out but its, but it's not up to me it's up. It's it's up to them, but that this is a classic look. This is a classic problem than that, of course, crosses it, illogical lines, but somehow sings. I would say not just to turn to us because of our illogical. These positions, but because of the nature of these things to be much more delicious. When you see it happening with liberal switches to say Neil Ferguson, not the historian, but the, but the epidemiologist in in England, haven't having established the nightmare scenario, base line of two million people dead,

you know, I'm not being socially distanced from his mistress with whom we did not live. Paranormal demonstrate Paramount, that's right, ok, so so so he has to quit right. It's like a lorry David Lee David's, wife, the you know, these serve global warming, extremists who flies private on on on her jet and burns up in our twenty thousand gallons of fuel. You know because she wants to go

If or she wants to see your private chopper Bergdorf in New York? Those kinds of stories the limousine liberate the classic limousine liberalism, hypocrisy, what ever errors and horrible mistakes in Enow in hypocrisy that are made on the right these they're, not these ones. It's not precisely. This kind of you must live in a certain way because I command it because of what is good form everybody else, but, of course I'll I'll just do what I want privately. The others would like the great story of Utah Krabi in the sainted now dead, Dino assassinated stop robbing twenty years before he was the same. You know before the the his assassination. He was the four. It is first go round as prime Minister of Israel in the middle of an economic crisis. He declared that no one.

The country could have a foreign bank account. Could never foreign bank account because that wasn't right and then turned his wife, had twenty five thousand dollars in a bank in Washington and he had to resign. But if he hadn't natural was like it was like a lad. You better closed that account. It was like water have to close my account. Everybody else us to close their account, but I dont have to close like that. I'm sorry I just lost. My story fell out of my ear so This is a thing. This is a big thing and, and I don't think it means that individual people would say I wish that the walk down, but I'm not gonna, follow them are the problem. The problem is leadership and I do think that them that The incentive, somehow the incentives, have to shift for the politicians.

To believe that it is worse for them to advocate lockdown in perpetuity than it is for them to open up or or to say, and the only way because of the establishment of these rules, this zeroed can fatality rule. I've been saying was enough for a couple months is somehow there have. To be a conspiracy to deem the problem fixed on the caliph ran example is wildly outside the normal right now are experiencing in the weeks since in the New York area. What you experienced in California isn't anything like what they experience in the south, for example, or them while the country or Texas or Florida today at five began. Larry Hogan of Maryland is allowing barbershops retail and salons to reopen it. Fifty percent capacity, and allowing churches to hold services outdoors recommended, but it's not

You know not not our hard and fast rule, because no one's going to enforce that starting to ease around the country and the press is not just give just not keeping up with these developments there by coastal themselves, but I think one of the ways this is actually getting it quite ugly is united in pointing out- and I guess that there is no mechanism of enforcement for these sorts of borders. And a lot of this is the flax and that's that, write. The problem is that at a certain point the pedal is going to the metal and there will have to either be enforcement or no enforcement, and it's all it's going to take is one really bad incident for all of this to to phone, So very very quickly, and he started to see that little bit in New York when there is that tape of b of the black gentleman who is being based, they mauled by members, the unlikely deeper, not socially distancing. All it takes is one of those incidents do not end in the shape of somebody being all, but in Aragon or type situation. For all this to end

dreamily extremely that isn't it I will say, is right. I wish that was right now. I don't think it is by followed this story really closely. I wrote about it for the website on the magazine, hypocrisy, is locked down along racial lines, are putting these two very a non negotiable, competing values against each other, racial equality before the law and public health and guess what what did the city side with public health? They decided not to ease the Louise, the restrictions that they were policing, minority parts of the city and poor parts of the city and an end relaxes restrictions commensurate with what they were doing and shells appears. Now they applied that standard that they were applied to the rest of their poor parts of the city to Chelsea peers and that's when which was met by the way, with great satisfaction from most of the city, which wanted to be policed. More heavily in entered to demonstrate solidarity with the rest of the city with they were not experiencing. That kind of effect, so no, I don't think that's what's gonna, do it even violence? I don't think that's. What's gonna do

It will have to be a mass movement. Maybe I mean I think bends onto something, though I do think that a couple of really bad things happening will have the effect of of making people say, awry. Well, you know oh, you can't really enforce a rule that says that people should be outside in the summer. Like you just can't do that, it's not good for the kids, it's really unhealthy for the kids and I think that some of that pressure, if you think about it granted this is now six weeks away. I'm talking about here. But I'm June thirtieth is the end of the fiscal year for a lot of people. It is the will be the end of it

quarter- and it is the moment when it will be the moment when nonprofits all across the country will be flooding our mailboxes with deep. Please gal, please send in your money, so we close this quarter out the beef ban, you know and help us and the numbers are gonna, be catastrophic. Amid the numbers, the nonprofit numbers are going to be catastrophic. The academic number, foundation, numbers food banknotes, every area. You know everything chart it's going to be a white bout extinction level moment for a lot of people and a lot of organizations and a lot of good or get a lot of bad organizations and a lot of good organizations, and this is where I think this conspiracy,

see that will be a conspiracy could emerge from which is. Oh, my god. We know we know a lot of people are employed. We know it's terrible. We know that the economy is a country sing all of this, and we know that all these restaurants have closed right. Who are these movie? Theaters are closed or whatever, but now the entire social service structure inside the United States that is not public is it is, is being hit by an extinction level event. We can't go on this way. It cannot go on and somehow the body

of opinion that is controlled by that group of people will decide that we really done a fantastic job, flattening the curve and answering the call- and this really was a kind of America. You did it. What a noble sacrifice you've made Let's get going again becoming it'll have to media first, I think it'll had the media, because you don T look it's easy for critical, nobly, workfolk wastewater risk, Roma works or somebody else. So he the luxury of the cemetery that that we all have of doing his job from home. But what happens when the revenue completely glasses? I mean any ends. You uninstall relies on ad revenue in all of these media companies are relying on subscriptions right now in subscriptions are not dropped off. They ve got up because people's consumption of news is still very strong. What happens when people start getting detracts from the government

and they have to stop prioritizing their spending when the first think that's gonna go is the subscription model advertising dollars already just plummeting I'm conceit online, they already seeing all sorts of, and we ray traffic over a daily wherever it isn't gonna, because the the advertising online is gone. I and in its true for for virtually everybody and there's gonna, come appoint here, where the level of comfort that it takes to be able to say it's not important for people to go back to work. All that matters is that we risk mitigate the best arts to drop off for people fairly quickly, because what you started to see- and this is particularly true for people in need sort of top income quintal- was a split between people who are Employees in the top income quintal and be people were the employers and the top income window. I you started to see people even in Hollywood. Degenerate cats in Britain Worldling guys we're getting ripped out here right that the heads of Disney already for reopening of units getting rack, and so the people work for Disney Ranald people were or over it ABC News are getting their track and that an error them for them. It's like! Ok, well, you know we're here to say.

AIDS and what were the news people, but guess what somebody signing the track for them too, and when he had revenue cutter drops and when Busby just had to cut their entire UK in Australia operation. When you're gonna, you're gonna start seeing a contraction that so far is started, started the local level. With luck with local news, I ended moving up the chain of the food. To national news? And when that happens, it would not surprise me at all to start seeing a little bit of a shift in the nature of the coverage from the self righteously. Only rich people went on for reopening people who don't care about the black in the impoverished too. Well, look. This is getting everybody. Everybody is really getting her here. We really got to reopen, will who or what I was I was I was trying to be so you know so thoughtful about the need for Social service organization that you're going you're going right at sunrise, Attica, jobs. You know I gotta. I got a pause for assessor if I could cause. I want to talk to you guys about our new advertising.

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Twenty four hours, film on tv production, gets green light in Spain, really extensive safety precautions. Film tv production to resume in the UK, but must follow social distancing rules and Poland to host Netflix HBO and Warner Brothers projects gives green light fulfilment tv. So, Media has is going back into business under what, with with one and while the other hand to scolding those of us who one who want who want to reopen while entertainment is going to business? yeah media, is never not been in business. Media's never felt through two hasn't felt that the pain of this, yet, which is the point I find this all fast staring in this one regard, look it up, Yes, there is podcast we we had a bit of it, eleven session against Rusty Reno the editor first things in his claim that you know forcing people to wear

people wearing masks is an act of cowardice and that you know this is not what the greatest generation dead and all of that, and that I said, look if you wanna. Now. If you want to reopen the country, you can't just pretend that there isn't a virus out there. So you there are things that you're gonna. Do it it's weird to be almost hysterical about one in the open up and hysterical about the measures that people take prudently to try to try pain, the spread of the virus as we opened up and that this is about me, but for some reason people have. This attitude seem to be unwilling either to take the measures that seem to be helpful in the opening up process, but that yeah,

I do think that there is a question here and in the question is due to the vagaries of what exactly it is that we are attempting to do so. Nobody has been required about what even we are really trying to do with social distancing and the mask wearing. They keep saying things like slow, the spread, but originally the goal of slow this friend, with the same as when the curve which has done over one elsewhere system. So if the idea is that you actually like what are we hoping for here, we hoping for a therapeutic. That's gonna come along and really reduce the death rate. Are we hoping for a vaccine that can be developed in the next six months, ballistic are any of those things are waiting for a deer ex aconite if you're not waiting for the insects back and if you think that, basically, this is what it is and is not gonna, be a serious therapeutic that the hopes for a vaccine, maybe a pipe dream. Then basically, you actually want young healthy people to go. Have a Bonapartist Margaret, and I think that there are some people who started to abrogate or for then I think that that's kind of what you're seeing there, which is not

a nursing home, and don't worry, I'm ask, but to be fair. He has some people saying if you're twenty years old and you're wearing a mass, because you're worried about your own protection or your hanging out with other twenty year old and you're afraid that you're gonna get covered. Nineteen bet you're that you are actually reducing the chances of reaching hurt him. You know that that may be over intellectual rising were watching the beak about a visceral. No rule got roar from the testosterone, DR areas, that the human body, but I think that there is a. I think that there is a case to be made. It is called the virus in Israel were proposing that, basically, if he recalled controlled avalanche legacy, resort ray, you can have detonate a few small avalanches to avoid having a giant avalanche that overwhelmed. I basically walk up a nursing home

and then, if community rate is sixty percent, you on reach that sixty percent among the least vulnerable populations, rather than letting the sixty percent sort of malware may among the vulnerable and big and the invulnerable. I and again it is not clear to me exactly what people are attempting to do. I think the answer is by time. Writing the people need to be clear that if the answer that we are attempting to do is is by time and are not being clear about that, because they then cannot give forecast as to the vaccinations are just a couple days ago, Mitt Romney was asking couching about vaccination than you say. What are you? What do you think are the chances that we develop a vaccine in eighteen months, you're good, very good, bad, mediocre, terrible at an end, she's already about inside twelve months. Tat you get. This number does not question. The question is: what are the chances are working to develop vaccines at six months? Ok, if it were, the idea is that were supposed to basically

down and or socially distance. The ultimate extend for twelve months. I dont. I honestly do not think that even the mask worrying in the social distancing better than last year- I just don't. I don't think that people have the capacity. Also we all had children, always the land was of children. Have you ever seen a child right, socially distance, that that's insane. I mean a minute, this here's reality once the schools are open, almost crap is over now, once the schools are open to all done. Every virus, I've gotten in life, six years since my daughter with paper might operate because their little during factories, interacting about the little germ backwards and ruling our reach other sea best pray that children can affect the impact, adults or basically all of this is a moot point, because the internet, after school there. All they get each other's economical moment are gonna get everybody else at which point to say. Ok, you better protected than bursting on stock. More and more, I see this. The more I feel like we're all gonna end up or Sweden is except because this is America. Large lots. America are not quite as compliance,

people in Sweden and even Sweden, by the way, the notion that everybody very super complaints about wearing, mask and socially distancing is actually true there. There a lot of people that are organised and erratic social innocence and there's the interesting thing to me. Since we were talking about the media, there It also been kind of only two registers, in which anyone seems to be able to perform their feelings about this right, so you have to Santas in Florida, for example, my parents, Luton Florida he did shut. The he did prohibit visits, nursing homes. The thing you did is is stopped Airbus and style, rentals sooner, you had to rent for a certain amount of time. This was a very smart thing to do because it stop people from bringing the virus further into the same way we hear a lot about. We heard a lot of criticism of the sentences policies, but in retrospect certainly the nursing home decision was was crucial for keep there. Their death rates they are now, so you have this sort of his area among the media of not end partisanship about one? Not wanting to

here in another register, something going well after you, ve decided on what the melody supposed to be. On the other hand, you know, I think, for the average American did. I think we ve all seen this for the advertising we ve gotten in the less you know few months, every single advertisement begins with. You know like we, a violin music in saying in these difficult times it they're all the same, and that cannot go on either so there's this and I think Americans have a really wonderful impulse when there is some sort of tragedy or disaster to act like you were very pragmatic and action, oriented, pragmatic about policy solutions and more action oriented in crises, and this is not that point that kind of crisis right its extensive. It's it's is dragging out we're a little confused about. You know how to handle it. New thing. So I think that the message is there is is for the average American you just wants to figure out. Is my kid gonna be able to go back to school in the fall. This is where the policy confusion comes

and this is- I do think there is a lack of leadership at the top in terms of the reassurance, as well as some practical signposts. If our kids can go back to school on the fall John, I think you said this weeks ago, wearin much bigger trouble that we are right now. I have adopted a conspiracy theory that I dont thy can't shake which is the profound inexcusable inexplicable. Lack of curiosity about New York States handling of nursing homes, which resulted in executive order from the governor YU, forcing these nursing homes to accept patients from hospitals, whether positive or not. You don't necessarily now and over five thousand elderly in these Senor care facilities have died. As a result of this, we don't have any firm questioning of the governor about why he did this, which is not to say there is no reason to do that. You could make very bloodless calculation that people on them.

The upper up of actuarial tables cannot be clogging up these facilities amid an existential crisis like this. That would be valid risk possible thing to do, even though it's absolutely disastrous for the people who inhabit these facilities, excusable for the relatives, but nevertheless understandable, but he should be made to explain himself and hasn't. They made to right wing, because if we were to do, Oh, you would expose it further the last outrage cycle we just live through, which, as you are killing grandma, that performative nonsense, that we all had to experience for anybody who wanted to their open up facilities for some fifty percent capacity facility,

that you weren't. We willingly subjecting seniors to a blood orgy and that narrative would collapse if they were to ask the governor appointed question about one of his policies will look sorry autumn. What happened was that there was a there was an astonishing confusion in March right, which was we ve, gotta flattened the curve, and it turned out that nobody actually understood what flapping the curb was like Ben said flooding. The curve was about making sure that the health care system did not collapse with a wave of patients with corona at hospitals, making it impossible for hospitals to function. So we need to do that to save the healthcare system right, and that is actually why people were sent a nursing homes with Corona, because the idea was they cannot be treated in emergency rooms because there are enough. There is a deficit. The facilities can't handle it the hospital

can't handle it, make them go somewhere else. The end, then we also had the ventilator crisis. Remember we need ventilators. We need forty thousand ventilators in New York state. Well, it turns out. We didn't need forty thousand ventilators and, what's more, it turns out that ventilators are a horrifically bad way to perform tree eyes against a virus like this. Once you put someone I ventilator, they have an eighty percent chance of never coming off the ventilator and dying on the ventilator

It is really a really unpleasant way. But we didn't know that cause we're not all health experts and by the way neither is Andrew Cuomo and neither was Trump and neither was anybody- and there was this kind of. We have to do this- to flattened the curve we, where the ventilators we need, the ventilators policy decisions were made. That in retrospect are going to look once people decide that they can look at. It are going to have looked horrifically bad, an entirely, in my view, defensible in the sense that they were her rhythmically bad, but they were entered into in good faith, because people were legitimate

the and genuinely frightened about something terrible happening. Then, as it happens, didn't actually happened. Listen. I understand- and I agree I should ever had some forbearance here, but you can't dick declined to ask the question under the presumption that some people will act in bad faith and interpret it in the worst possible way. That's an allegation of your job. Apparently you can well imagine that is. It is amazing, see the differential media coverage and some of these stories that the fact that this answers is he's been made a pariah by the media and obviously is governorship, has been significantly more successful than the garbage governorship of your government reform is is truly astonishing, that the amount of attention paid to Kelly, lawful or in what are suspicious, but not necessarily does positively bad circumstances verses. This story than Europe posted a visa or yes

He saw the story in Europe about the Pennsylvania, help official, who was implementing a in actual policy that if you were diagnosed combination- and you are in an old age, from your back to the old age home and then meanwhile, this person's ninety five year old mother said I want to come out of the ordinary trump. And so this is pencil. They need help with petrol is, like Nature come on out to rebuild a man from the old age, from fundamental about putting people carbonizing back in the old age or age like that kind of stuff. I just don't know how you expect Americans to pay attention this kind of authority, and I think that there are lots of people who right now we're talking about the new normal in. What's new normal gonna be like, and what comparing into nine eleven and how we all excepted sort of what did he say was doing get we accepted what this? Yes, it was doing

literally had no choice, because it would be restricted motive of travel. The most must don't have an airplane in our backyard and so the question: what are you going to walk through this stupid metal, detector for performative security reasons and then get on an airplane, or are you just not going to fly? But when it comes to, are you going to wake up each more input in Moscow where you gonna wake up each morning and socially distance from spanish over sixty like on a voluntary level every moment of everyday. I dont think that it is more likely that people's new normal is gonna. Look exactly like the old, normal and people are just gonna, be at a certain point. People get lazy and certain points because background noise at a certain point, the even Even fifteen hundred up today is gonna, become background noise. After months and months and months of this and is becoming, more background noise when people don't have jobs and when the government tricks aren't arriving and when they get and when, the supply ones, break and people are gonna, say: ok, fine with it. If you're older.

Your vulnerable. Let's get you in a ninety five mask and you can make a decision to stay home, but guess what I'm taking you make? It will go back again like I've. Actually shift in my mind on this, I think that three months ago and a couple months ago and started, I was pulling at the border. And yet there is going to be a sort of a change in the American Entelechy about things on a personal level and I'm just not see in it and does not in it. Maybe the handshake goes away permanent. But I think that, maybe all I think, maybe I think the idea they did we're all gonna stay away from restaurants and Robin to be socially distancing in restaurants, entreating each other as per annum. Swearing like each is not in the american Spirit. I really don't think them ass well for very long, maybe in your hand, things coming on our desks, and I haven't got. It I don't know, I think you're right, I'm your brother. I see, I agree, but again that I think the ultimate question

is what is the margin of disaster and that that's a we don't know, meaning most people are gonna go back and for most people nothing is going to change or they're gonna go back, but if ten percent of people don't go back, is that the margin between a successful economy and a depression? And that's, I think what we don't know, because what is a profit margin in the United States? What does it require? What it? What is the? What is that the opposite of what is this early economic version of heard immunity by which you have enough people to support them? our economy if ten or fifteen percent of them basically become hermits out for the next four for the foreseeable future. The scenario your outlining is one in which the public policy

an media and elites are all on board with the notion that we all need to open up immediately. That's the smart thing to do, because the disastrous to profound so it will at some point, become your patriotic duty to purchase to patronize to go back to work, to write a bus. That's it but I think that there will be a public relations campaign promoting just think that this is at this is there is an emotional trauma associated with this, with a certain type of person, a certain type, not an American, a human type, which is somebody who lives in fear of disease of,

tejan of you know, germs of all that's a certain type, and we don't know how many people it is. But it's not you know, they're not properly. You know they're not like they're, not butchers and they're, not greener. They're, not. You know they're not for Chanty, that this is a real thing, and these are people who have now live have now had a moment in life in which their worst fear has been realized. They have been told that there that there was a pause, damage that is going to kill people with a virus that is unstoppable and can they were cover. The lesson is my question, but also. I also wonder, however, whether that group of people the people were both swear discovers were already the people we just did. They turn out to be people, go to the parties and like that, that group of people that you're talking about may already be locate

substrate, a people actually are most vulnerable and they actually have pretty good reason did to stand For me, I think, there's a hypochondriacal pardon of american society, but it seems to me that when we see these bidding as from Chicago literally, a thousand people crammed into question or broken for a party. I read those I've, never the ones that it always they did the Jews and Williamsburg, yet all media, but then the same week I was happening. There are a couple of huge parties of disproportionately black folks in insults at Chicago partying. Like I don't. I think that the people who are tending most two to go out and patronising the economy will continue to patronising God and the economy. I dont think that the level of caution I why are the most cautious and risk of errors? In other words, may not be the ones who actually drive a consumption based economy than that, and I think that they tended rather investment based economy, but I'm not sure they can drive the consumption based economy, this'll old news by the time you hear this listeners, but as of this moment, there was constant Supreme Court has ruled. The governor Tawny, an ever administrations extension of there

They at home mortar overstepped its authority and has overruled unrevealed, oh by the way. This is deeply important, Can I say her has listened or listen to me earlier this week when I did my whole passionate defence in support of Camp Roma in Wisconsin. One of the reasons a compromise was constant might not gather this summer was precisely governor. Tony hovers shelter. Place order not not being being present through the end of May, which made it impossible to plan in case it was possible for them to reopen. So this could be a very big moment for me personally and for the people who are part of my circle of people, for whom this is a very important thing. So

Thank you for that. Now follow up right now that you're, ok, compromise store, he better dead, I'm sure thrilled millions of listeners. So hey, then Shapiro. Thank you so much for joining us, whether with Europe with you're, the passionate defence of the herd immunity strategy, we haven't Nellie, which we haven't really gone into it any in any greater the great denial net phenomena via back a little bit, adding tat passion. I learned at the heart of the strategy- might be a little more about our answer. Your flight wire balloon traveling alone, rival Oh great media matters where the bulk of our media manners. I did not maybe you should go to old age. Humming, smother Grandmama heard immunity. I beg you

did not as very important that they know that stuff anyway, then it was great value and for aid Christine no I'm jumper let's get the camel burning.