We're joined today by Israeli journalist Ruthie Blum to discuss the bizarre phenomenon of Israel likely heading toward a fifth election in two years despite the multiple triumphs in the past year attributable to the leadership of embattled Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu. Why hasn't Israel's success in national vaccination carried Netanyahu to new heights? And we continue to discuss vaccine hesitancy and its problems. Give a listen.
This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
Welcome to the commentary magazine. Billy podcast today is Wednesday March thirty. First, twenty twenty one, I'm John Paul towards the editor of Commentary Magazine nor
Kathryn is out today and tomorrow with me as always: executive editor, Amory, Malta, I hadda Senora,
Christine rose and high. Christine again,
and joining us from TEL Aviv columnist for the Jerusalem Post columnist for the jewish NEWS service editor,
George no service commentator on every israeli television programme. You can possibly imagine, and my sister Ruthie bloom High Ruthie again, okay, so before we get to
he's a deep analysis of the of the ongoing and never ending israeli political electoral crisis. I just want to report to us
provided that we have a new piece of commentary March in the March store
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commentary magazine, podcast mug. Twenty bucks get you a mug go. There do thou. Likewise, now Ruthie
leaving our Lisbon Prime Minister, since two thousand nine is now twenty twenty one, and for the last two years he has had to
call for elections, because his government couldn't survive that at each given point. The fourth election took place,
It was like ten days ago some like that, our
we gotta go anyway, some some points and the twenty third. Yes,
a week ago. Yesterday. Ok, so jointly,
besides nine days ago, right, ok, so it's mine days ago and
the his party. We could has the most see to needs.
sixty one sees the former government liquid has thirty.
the next party, which is led by which is the premier Anti Baby Party. Let's just put it that way, run by yeah you're, lucky aviation teed has seventeen. I believe and
the baby coalition, as it is currently constituted, has about fifty two,
see it's out of the sixty one needed the anti, because
listen with the largest share coming
from yeah yeah fatigue
a few more fifty five, fifty six, fifty seven, neither of them right now can form a government. So there's gotta be a fifth election, or
do you think that baby can pull another rabbit out of his hat and nth jury
rig something so that he gets the sixty once it. I think tat
then another election, because in the first place
see how anyone can form a coalition. It's not just met and now, in fact, Netanyahu
it has a greater possibility of forming a coalition than the others,
but even if the others do form a coalition it,
one that will last maybe a year. If that- and
the reason is that, though,
the way this has been reported is that this is a problem that I now versus Anti Netanyahu election. In fact,
right wing in Israel overwhelmingly one they select. When you mean overwhelmingly what you mean does not only in the number of seats, but I think the member that, though, that doesn't work that way right. The number I get gas so that the parties, the study, the the
right wing parties, as you might call them
if then we joined together, they are
drawing together. There wouldn't be
real easy coalition- and there
is where the like- sixty five seattle- something like ok easily, so
the public is overwhelmingly right when we're ok and the
this is not the way things are counted
Finally in a system like this, if you, if you count the aggregate vote like the aggregate popular vote, I think didn't they
we could end up with. Even though we killed only has half the number of seats necessary right. Only too
the coalition it got about forty seven percent of the vote or something I'm doing of that
a million it got a million votes and that your, how yeah, maybe it's forty seven percent, but the legal
party is not the only one, in fact the Likud Party
is actually the centre. Although the enemies China portrayed as the far right or something
Actually, if anything is centre right, it's really good.
And the reason that this election is being called Pro, letting our hand in it and now is precise,
They because some of the right wingers
are doing everything
they can to oust net anyhow and therefore did not join
the coalition, the natural coalition for them
so they're entails teenager parties right to parties one
one line is yet Mina right, one is Mina, headed by enough tally, Bennett and
he has been trying desperately to to become. Prime
Minister, in the last few days,
because one of which he didn't even pass the threshold after trying to do that, you didn't even get into the classic and briefly
He was defence minister in
Netanyahu's interim government too,
elections ago, but
so he's one of them and adhere to the right of Netanyahu and the other is given saw, who created a broke off from legal very recently, to form some
the New Hope Party, where he was
speak. He was the speaker of the connected, so he was the look. He was the head of the.
We call on both the galleys
many now go,
many jobs, and we could. He was been he's been different, hadn't different ministries and he tried
unsuccessfully, to run in a primary ITALY, could against it and now and lost very badly
so he left politics briefly
and came back and then recently he formed his own party. Now his politics are like those of light
put some people stay here to the right of Netanyahu, is well now, both he and love Taliban, it fair
way worse than the poles had predicted. Originally, the pulse predicted that each of them would get double digit amount of seeds, and neither did it
one that seven states, the other, got six seats, but there,
its together, would
Netanyahu a coalition right wing coalition. But they don't want to do that because they want baby out Balfour as what they say about forests be addressed,
the street name of the Prime minister's residents in Jerusalem. Workload.
Ten Downing street Balfour so slow and
and the sole purpose of their candidacies is to be anti baby.
Yes, and except enough Dolly Bennets case it's, he want
to be prime Minister as opposed to
didn't sign, and even the evil appeared. The heavier shouted the next biggest party. Even here
You have said: ok, fine I'll forfeit being Prime Minister as long as we check met them out I'll form, any
kind of coalition just to get him out, but not tally, Bennett actually wants to be.
Prime Minister, he wants to lead the shock of the brigade
again Psmith. I now know let's talk about what this means politically goes on the american context. This is none
then sickle beyond belief, though not necessarily in the israeli political conduct, which is that not tally. Bennet, who was a close, a
to baby and then fell out with him in a deeply personal fashion.
In some manner relating to babies, wife, Sarah
at ten years ago: Bennett
Would have been the natural successor to
maybe in some sense politically ideologically has many
things in common with baby speaks. English very well has an entrepreneurial business,
background, various other things, but they they have it. They have a deep personal hostility to each other, but the weird p,
about this. Is that bet it wants to be prime minister and there's all this maneuvering about whether something good happen where he could be
his party, one seven sweets out of a hundred and twenty. So at trade
seven feet he doesn't even half of that's like five percent or something from a half per cent
the guy said, and he is somehow most of them bill
the coalition in which he becomes he. Generally speaking, you call somebody like this, a king maker,
because he has a small number of votes. That can, you know,
form or destroy coalition, but the king
maker doesn't becoming
king by definition because he doesn't have a white exactly so
you have this thing: we're babies got thirty seeds, he's got seven and somehow the guy
seven swedes, who has very much the same ideological proclivities is the guy with thirty is somehow gonna end up being the
Minister, when the public had a chance to pick him over the other and didn't it. Sir. It's it's
shook. As we say in the eye,
It is there to make matters more common
Katy. There's another right wing party that we haven't mentioned and that's party.
cod is obeyed, pay now in its headed by a vague Donley Bergman,
and none of these four elections would it
bend or none of the last three would have happened, had
Liebermann not at the last minute. He was the king
in the first round of elections two years ago and
when that election was over meting out declared victory because he had
a clear majority and Liebermann said I changed my mind.
Joining you or anybody else, and he is responsible for
how many were in right. Now I mean that he is not responsible for the mess, since then
but he has been refusing to join the canal, all so big
personal rivalry right, ok, so this is this is the
though the state of play. So let's let pull back and make us less
tactical or structural and more more historical, so
baby has been prime minister for twelve years through, I guess five
elections, the first one he wanted them or maybe seven elections. I don't have something like that and there is a classic rule of thumb in democratic countries with the possible.
The exception of the United States in the middle of the unknown,
middle of the World WAR two, which is that damn you just you can't
they in power that long, uninsured
Thirdly, Merkel has been in power that ok, but she and she's done by the way she asked her last reaction. She was cooked and she said I understand that
I have overstayed my welcome so when this, when this term is over I'm gone.
Tony Blair I mean you can name you could it did. This is that there is a there is ass, her world historical fact, including in state
governor stuff, like that in the United States. It just too much people get bored the play,
ecosystem can't handle it. They ve had enough. There's scandals that divide
even though I think we ve had you on before, to talk about babies, the three
this, the three doubt- and I went to baby- that you think- and I think and allowed people think are pretty garbage, but he is under,
but he is sort of now that the trials are commencing. So there's always a corrupt
staff tired stuff in all of that and
and you know baby in some natural sense after the,
ability to win one of these
for elections Outrider per hour or easily, or something like that in a more
then she political moment he probably would have given up the ghostly, would have looked at things and said: look I had this
fantastic run, then you know. Obviously people are tired. I can't do this anymore, so he decided.
to do that and here's the irony, that's what I wanted to talk to about online
the last couple of elections, the last twelve months of babies,
Prime Minister ship have arguably been the most
Success will not only of his tenure, but if any demo,
Craddock leaders in the world to these two.
historic and mass of accomplishments, one, the able
am accords the peace, the peace with the EU
I and you know various other rain.
By Raymond
wow with the with the
near intimation that
Saudi Arabia, maybe
close at hand,
That's number one in the number two was this astonishing
Explanation achievement that we can also go into later under new
or political circumstances or under a normal understanding of politics. He should be coasting.
Two landslide victory is: he has proven at a moment of both crisis, an opportunity to have pulled
skills, and you know, and managerial skills- and this deal that he struck with Pfizer on on
I'm getting this massive amount of vaccination on the grounds that Israel could serve as these sort of petri dish
test case. You know,
global study for the for the viability of the of the Pfizer biotech vaccine
and here he is one election later.
The last election, he got thirty seven seeds and this time he got thirty, that's crazy! No, I mean
Can you give me a sense? It isn't it isn't, because if those two parties Bennett,
and saw if they hadn't ass split and if they have
been against him personally
You want to be coasting into the premiership again and benefits for him
Part was running on the ticket. That Netanyahu failed at the corona virus handling, which is ridiculous
to put it mildly, but that's because
until the vaccines came,
everyone was blaming the ten both for the deaths
you know for the patients there, the critical patients in the desk and for the
demise of the economy, which it hasn't die
If there are thing, but a lot of people lost their jobs in small businesses closed so until
the vaccination campaign he was being blamed for that and
and once the vaccination campaign happens, a lot of people
Forgave him for that, but then it continued to say he handled the crisis badly.
That's number one
over to where the
Abraham accords are concerned, the English.
Ok. So far we ve been talking about his his enemies on the right
his enemies on the left, never give him credit for anything and they met
Them were kind of happy about the Abraham accords to because the
Palestinians weren't included in the deals and so software
as from the outside, you say look into it and look what let these incredible achievements, but the left things that need
now is at fault for lack of peace with the Palestinians. You think so.
In some ways they considered that great achievement
to be severely lack, how
much today, how much does his personal style of politics, because if we do you ve both mentioned several leader.
Sue now no longer know who dislike him intensely and are acting on that politically, because they had a personal break with him. How much does his style impacts? The real
this recent election, because we talk a lot about here on here about like Andrew Cuomo and the sort of shewbread of some of our leaders in the U S and how that weirdly doesn't get reflected.
In some of the pulling data friend support for them. What do you see about Netanyahu's particular personality that that might have benefited him at the beginning of his political life, but in some ways is curdled public opinion about it? Now, that's that's a good question because I think that over the years
even his worst enemies.
Grudgingly! I admit that he's
statesman, like presentable,
the opposite of what American said about Donald Trump. For example, even many trunk supporters
it allows the porters never accused him of being trump like, but his detractors
often do
and and in order to
make fun of ham or below
oh him in some way in his personal demeanor, they go after his
and his son, his
hold your son, who is also on twitter all the time, and I must say if I were, that kid's mothers.
Got a kid, is twenty eight or something I've smack
since facing tell him to stay off. Somebody can do leave it until a kid, but only because if you now have home, you know doesn't exactly have a job and if I were his mother, certainly if I were the father, I tell him to stop doing that. But
that's one way that his enemies get too
The other is by saying
he has killed israeli democracy, which of course, is nonsense over questions to sticking with the mention of Trump here, something that we return to unpack cast. A lot is disputed question of those trump destroy everything he touches, so in what sense, to what degree has
babies, close relationship with Trump I'm come into play this time round, and particularly also who took to what extent has the fact the Trump loss than now.
fighting in White House
who spent the first
No, how long, how many days at this point when what it was before he reached it,
to the baby from the oval office.
Well, that's also that's a great question. I think that by
election had a lot to do with these desolate
result in the sense that it
provided Netanyahu.
Enemies on the left, in particular, ok enemies on the right have
the bigger problem in this respect, because his enemies and the right also loved Trump
so they loved trumps policies, but the left he didn't trump
and hated Netanyahu for many of the same reasons
and so what what bag
the election help them do was
especially at the height of the pandemic, and a lot more dead people and all that
just say: ok,
it can now has destroyed Israel's relationship with the democratic
party in the United States and we need somebody who's, gonna, heal the rift he said
so it had an effect. There's no question but again can didn't happen
in effect and the general public- not really the general public is right wing. So that's why this election has been called as it
This election is not divided along left and right lines, but rather
there along pro and Anti Semitism now lines. And the one thing I wanted to respond to John.
What you said before that leaders wearing it
you're welcome after so many years, and that's true but here's my question to you. If you look at the result of these elections,
and you see Nathaniel, Owsley or way ahead of every other party, including then the second largest. Then you have
Ask yourself really. He should
step down. He should step aside when
he garnered more votes than any by anybody else mean that's also kind. You have to say what
leader does that you quit when you're ahead, I mean that's the question to no look, I
I I I think, that's the absolute
the case, I'm just saying that that that what you, what you have here and whether it's because get on saw, ran or about it, the desert in obsolete Liebermann that that be,
is party lost, twenty percent of its seats, but-
from one election to the next. After a year in which he was about tested and and- and I did
was part of the most creative diplomatic achievement of the twenty first century and with test
did sorely and as the election as people were going to the Poles ages,
it strikes me, I'm not there, but it strikes me that there should have been the surge of national pride in the in the notion that this little
country somewhere was leading the world in the in the escape from or the emergence from this vote.
Worldwide, virus crisis and in
dad it's not that he got his hand.
I handed to him, but you know it shouldn't. Have
in that way
somehow that that's all I'm
That's all I'm saying with solid Bennet did well right here. You yourself were saying that between Bennett and far, they got thirteen see
its or something like that- and I bet it is arguable
I mean this is that this is the most bizarre part of this. If it were not for
the personal animosity between them and the personal and that had been it sort of like the either band
himself or get banished from babies, inner circle or something like that. Better
absolutely
the air, theoretically, an
baby doesn't want an air he never wanted. This is his terrible in my
this is his terrible political mistake that he has now generated for himself, which is that he can't
a empower forever. Whenever
There's going to be five elections that are entirely based on the idea that he cannot maintain
even governments
it's been two years for elections in two years, even if he forms this government. It won't last very long,
so he is now a week later, not a strong leader, although when he is a leader, he then is a strong eager, but
over time, because all those accomplishments that you men, she'd, never happened.
He was in the midst of a huge
coalition crisis in fighting, I mean that's the incredible thing.
I have to say that the way in which met them now is so incredible.
I'm even when you can't stand him, you say he has this ability to function on its, not just those
do accomplishments. Let's not forget another important one throughout this entire,
area that we're talking about a repeated elections
he has been fighting.
a shadow war, I'm not so shadow with IRAN.
in Syria and even in IRAN itself, he get out that that's all.
Small thing you know we're sitting here safely because of him now
Here's one other complication. I want to see pattern of Taliban its borders.
It's not merely that they want him to be Nathaniel's air, so to speak
they their problem? Is they blame Netanyahu for not
extending sovereignty to dance Amerika and the Jordan Valley, which meting out did not do because
the Trump Administration asked that here,
I find that so that he could get those Abraham accords signed, and he did that and that
it is also an example of his leadership, so you know I'm not so sure that that enough
I bet it is an heir to Lee. Could in that sense, I like what one thing on the air point. I
really interesting because democracies tend to punish the people who say
it's my turn now? Because I know that this was the Hillary Clinton problem right she's, like I've, done everything I'm supposed to I've, checked every box, it's my turn and the voters punished for that people like Trump, obviously
dont want airs because that dear detracts attend you remember, we ve never really had a good system, at least in the: U S where you can even groom and air voters tend to punish anyone whose given that designation, because it's kind of scene is unfair right. We want to throw everybody into the ringing picker. We one is that this is the same.
I think you're like where do you? Why has
Netanyahu done then have previous leaders successfully done that in a way that he could have mere. But it wont let me in
no tongue out, because here's the thing the tunnels and great leader- and he has very
severe character flaws.
dear ones. I ended up. Let's not forget his
the human being as well, and so on
from having a big ego and all the other things that you now I mean he's the politician he
surely doesn't believe than anybody else could lead
Israel, the way he does now, he could be right, but
recently. Somebody pointed out something very important legal
asked leader in Israel who live,
so long, not as long as Netanyahu. Almost
David Ben Worryin than Israel first Prime Minister, and he
a huge figure. I mean he established a state. Then I mean he was a powerhouse and
charismatic and all that, and when and
who succeeded. Him was levied
phone
nobody really heard them today. Nobody really mentions him, but he turned
I have to be a fine prime minister, so assumption
we'll have been bringing data that ok. So we don't have another knit right now on this and that,
political seems somewhat, so so
that means we can never have another leader, of course, not an there's truth, and that too,
democracies or Vienna were represented, representative republics or whatever you want to call them r R.
the the leaders
abilities talents, vision than all of that is supposed to emanate from the public. Not there
they're, not you know it's not out of their own heads like like Athena, they're they're supposed to
Marshall, a kind of representative opinion in the vast centre and then execute, and so in theory, if israeli democracy as either healthy or whatever it is some
will come along and have the same kinds of possibilities
in their quiver and baby has done, and in an extraordinary thing,
but you know if he were hit by a truck tomorrow, somebody else would become prime minister, and I don't think we would then assume that the country
with slide into the Mediterranean because somebody else was was in. It was an unarmed Balfour straight. You know it's a dna.
He can make that mistake and obviously
He can believe that no one can do what he did and that the country can survive him but weak, but you know Jim
speaking democratic populations,
should not think that way and
you know I. On the other hand, it I've said he laughed too long. You made a mistake in outs or elections. All this
but again the last year has been the capstone or
a cornerstone of his of his achievements, which are you know,
believable considerable right, Bob Job, beginning and in
two thousand and nine, you know he
systematically side. The Palestinian Authority
seems to have eliminated the Hamas as as a threat
in Gaza,
the shadow war against IRAN, including you know all that stuff that we don't know about, that related to the
Degradation of IRAN's nuclear programme capped Hezbollah from
waging war in the north, somehow
again. We don't quite know how far from Lebanon
extended all these diplomatic relationships belong.
Before the Abraham Accords Writer, outside of the relationship with the United States, to strengthen its position in all
these places and helped shepherd both this
Amateur oilfields discovery am Guenaud were the growth of Israel's,
economy? Now, Israel's? What the twenty? Eighth of the twenty seventh richest country in the world, the a I mean he didn t doesn't deserve credit for
precisely, but he also didn't, show get in its crab the ways in our that he didn't do things. That would would that what we would have retarded the growth away. Other politicians, my
it's an unbelievable set of accomplishments, and yet there he is with thirty,
instead of thirty, six or thirty cents
Then I mean that's, that's the that's the little thing that you know it serve hard to get away from
it seems to me, and we don't none of the one thing we got now here is had he stepped down before this election.
How many Cecily could would have gotten? That's what we don't know.
What we know is everybody says
He went only quit we
have a government in five minutes. That's the other. I mean anybody hid the his detractors say that, and I say really because
because the electoral system here is crucial,
the anyway. Ok, every idiot can fly
a party and by the way, I just think it's insane how many parties ran in this election.
To mention the amount. The past the threshold
but there were thirty nine parties running. I mean it's crazy. It's
everybody with some beginners some idea has to run
many of these parties shouldn't be separate.
That's an labour are exactly the same. There
our many similarities among their religious,
Is there a similarity in the point? Is that you know it
be so much easier as it is in the United States in some respects that you have basically the Democrats and the Republicans in its not when you vote for a democratic candidate
the you love everything about the party. Of course not.
You know, what's inside your on when you choose aside- and here it's like you, how can you do the sign among fifty sides and good? So so you know that's what we don't
now I am sometimes. I really would love to tell everybody really. You think that ok, let's see what happens when babies
I'm is finished. Then, let's see who how we vote because
I personally would still vote. We could, even though there are many people in that party, I can't stand, but I would vote for it because it's the clue
to my arm to my
ideology and acknowledges centrist, but not its not left wing in it.
not far right wing and its inner? So I would still vote for that party
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in so we're gonna, move off the baby story and talk a little about vaccines,
vaccination stuff, like that, we are now in a day three, this week of a kind
Diversity with our with our listeners, in many of whom
our emailing me and I saw it in great anger,
because I have been very insulting about vaccine hesitancy over the course of this week. I am annoyed
I can't take it anymore. I want to get out of this, and I have these people say: well, it's not really tested, and how do you know my children? I don't want my children too, I mean listen use
dead. Everyone said last your trust, the science and you know what look what happened there with top telling what
Matthew should where now they say you should get,
vaccine and the vaccine doesn't have enough studies and trials and blah blah blah,
blah blah, which is actually not true as
in point of fact
I was looking up and you know that Pfizer vaccine alone had a trial of forty five thousand people, which I was the largest clinical trial.
In the history of the world, larger than the trial of the polio vaccine ass. I looked it up at night and fifty three meetings
before and the other vaccines and everything like that. So I'm I'm mad that I'm like. I don't care, whether you don't get a vaccine.
Passport. You know what's that, if I don't get it, then we should have a vaccine passport. If you don't get it stay home and rot in your in your dungeon, because
interested in you,
I was in me and my family to remain in this condition of frozen. This I'll give it. There is a slight silver lining, too. That response are beginning from our listeners. In this sense, a lot of them want to
very deliberately distinguish their feelings about this vaccine.
from the crazy anti back. Sir Robert Kennedy types who think all back scenes are terrible and you have a sort of ideological, has staked out ideological grounds for years on childhood vaccination. So I actually think that's apposite.
sign because their hesitant but they're not anti backs, and I think that distinction matters to them it it doesn't, in effect your right on. It has no effect on where they get. You know, there's no,
getting a vaccine, that's bad! I agree, but there's a
way to bring them round, and I think that it's it's important
I acknowledge that they're not like the crazy anti factors that we generally know and then and dislike it,
you know I mean they're there. Their data there near the slightly near phobic people who don't really trust what big fat
miss telling them- and I have sympathy for their that perspective, even as I hope they out- grow it, because we need as many shots in as many arms is Basel showcase. So I agree with you:
I'm I'm, I'm I'm by the way, I am deliberately making fun of my own view maker
extreme, so that people should understand that this is an emotional response
that I am making, but so is theirs. I mean that that's the point they people are claiming that their vaccine,
hesitancy or whatever is based on a healthy scheme
this isn't about how
data there been and how this is gone and all of that and that's all well and good, and that sounds really nice and no, there
care to that end
that's an emotional response and
Axiom hesitancy may look to them
or believe they may believe in their own heads that their feelings about this are
related to.
You no serious- you now concerns where they, you know, but there are also not epidemiologists and they're, not scientists and stuff, like that. They're just like
You know, I don't know you know. Maybe this will happen in something battle happen, so I don't want to. I don't want to be a guinea pig is essential,
but what they're saying you're turning everybody
to a guinea pig
and I'm sorry, but you know we ve all been
guinea pigs for the last year we ve been guinea pigs in a world in which there is a virus loose in the end in the world, and so, if you're saying look, I don't think
I'm gonna get it so
or if I get it, it won't kill me so I.
Forget it did not get it or it won't kill me or I probably won't get a cause, I'm not old. I don't have co morbidity them young about all this. So if you're not gonna, get it
you're getting a vaccine which gives you a little bit of it or you know, interrupted
its effect on you're on your honor. In our view, this are unable stoppage thing. Why are you hesitate? Braille I'd want Rev one. I mean there's a shirt
compelling logic to those who say because this
a new vaccine technology. We don't have the results of became.
Possibly know what potential effects it has long term
ten twenty thirty years down the line. Fine, I get that, but the truth is nothing.
has ever been introduced to the public that is endured,
a lifetime of testing. First right, you don't you don't
test out a hundred a century to make sure that that there is no long term damage of four four? For anything I mean, if that were the case, we'd still be waiting,
or polio, and whatever else
the MRI Rna technology that is behind Pfizer, end and Madonna was deploy
The idea that this was the way to stop this virus was poor
in March of last,
dear. It's not like. It was September
some of the old. Let's try this in September, and then it was entered
in December, the the
idea behind this technology was you know and this, and that this would be the way to go started almost from the outset of the knowledge that the that the that the virus was growing global,
so it was nine months, not three months not for months. It was nine months and it was a gigantic things were to gigantic
trials and now this is where I want to bring up Ruth
you're so and then and then Bay
Similarly there is in one entire country on the planet earth that has that that whose private
MR went to they had a Pfizer made. Thirty four
called to him and said so
the doses- and we will be your- we will be the proven ground, because
Now we can survive this if we can't get out of that were too small were too you know, will
we do not, we need so we need to get
Looking again at that,
that was a real. You know a real achievement and there's a lot of vaccine hesitancy in Israel Rye rule. There is a lot that can be as much as it feels as though there is only because of it
A number of people have been vaccinated so far I mean since off.
Five million people have been vaccinated with boss
doses in Israel, in a population of nine million many
of whom are under age. Sixteen, then, if you do them,
You realize that it's a huge percentage, but what
disturbing to me about the hesitancy in Israel is that there are few,
one is. When I first came to Israel, I was shocked to meet many people who had had polio the ones who survived it, that is on crutches in wheelchairs. I was kind of surprise
because growing up in the United States
even though I am at that age group. I didn't know people who had had polio
and in Israel, there were many, ah
thing around and that's number one number two right before the pandemic,
struck. We had an outbreak of the measles. If you will remember, it was worldwide,
and Israel was hit particularly hard because two groups
both in America and in Israel.
Who were not vaccinating their child.
for the measles, where the tree,
hackers and the
ultra orthodox midnight all
and again I have to stress this: it wasn't all I'll try worth it acts. It was certain sex, but it began to
after we had had achieved, heard immunity. This
destroying the herd, immunity and
to run out and get measles vaccines, because it turns out that I was, I missed the boat I was to older to younger whatever to old I've missed
by a year when I was little so I had to
get the measles vaccine because it was being transported.
And allow flights between New York and Israel in
I run a because we were all locked down and were wearing masks and everything that we have heard about new measles out measles case, because
weren't around each other to catch the measles. But what was this?
Durban to me, was every com that I wrote about vaccines and about and in an in praise of vaccines.
got such vicious com.
it's more than I get vicious columns
about my problems all the time, but these were really vicious and asked to two until count one the most
Gusting was comparing this to mingle. Is experiments took competitors to Holocaust both as an expert like that we were experts.
Being experimented on by big farmer which is absolutely
not only is an absurd, but it's just immoral to make that comparison and the other
was that it was like selection in the Holocaust, because, if you're not vaccinated, you may not be allowed into your neighborhood swimming pool. Unless you shall the
a negative Colvin test. Now, I'm sorry those camps
our sins are so immoral that I can't I don't even know where to begin. I'm it's one thing:
to be hesitant about
vaccine you're afraid wondered what what effect it will have. Long term, though, apparently have
had called it can have long term effects. People who have had it are going.
Don T, be here and saying you know, I didn't believe I thought covered with nothing
I believe in the vaccine sea the now please Vulcan vaccinated
years at my hearing as affected my balance as effective. Apparently, the disease also has long term effects. So
You know the fear of the vaccine as opposed to the disease.
me.
A little silly
and especially when, especially
when, when its it shone already, we ve seen people who already had it
we're having serious problems there
it's strange? Isn't it because I'm glad you mention lockdown than how that has changed were without with measles cases, because I think in a weird way here,
in the? U S in particular
the year of living on lockdown and that sort of
many cases, sometimes extreme fearmongering by public health professionals, but but in general, the kind of overall sense that, while this is a completely different universe, has
has created in a lot of people habits of mind about what level of of risk
is it safe and what level of
risk is intolerable and
tolerance for risk is way down, understandably, but
strangely does then, when it comes to taking a new vaccine to till to limit
the situation regarding per year. The top
since your risk is remains very low, and I think that place
to end I mean there's a kind of. I really think these long term habits of mine that reform being unlike those produced, those of us who ban in cities were the lockdown have been a year.
Erin schools have been closed in and normal life
really hasn't still in some cases, hasn't resumed,
changes how you approach new things and changes, how you accept rest in a bad way, and in this case I think well, I'm in the way of a part of the things that I find difficult.
to handle announce a pulling away from my emotionalism into something more analytical is that
it- just strikes me that the people who are expressing
vaccine hesitancy, who are not true,
Hungary are the altar Orthodox, both of whom have different attitudes that that govern right though the tree
others believe that things like a medicines and vaccines are unnatural.
and therefore they are somehow contradictory to where the good working order of man's harmony with nature and are it's bad,
and then there is this in relation to say to the altar Orthodox in Israel. There is some very odd
coordination of this idea, that you are somehow interfering with the power
working order of nature, as expressed by the divine that,
if God wills, that people get covered, God wills that people get covert and then you do you get covet or whatever AOI, throwing herself into the army
Hush sham Russia will decide. That's that's it.
Those are two weird, those are sort of. That's it. That's that
idea about the Organization of the universe.
my senses, that among the vaccine, hesitant that I'm hearing from that we're getting letters from an out and all that that
These are people who are sceptical about covered from the beginning
and their scepticism shifts em an end and changes depending on the moment. So I wasn't gonna kill you be they.
Said you shouldn't whereabouts than they said you should wear masks, so they can't be trusted even when they say, should wear a mask and the mass becomes a.
You know a service. A mark, a sign of state
control, and you can't believe anything that they say so if they say that you should have the vaccine, why should you trust them the death?
all is exaggerated. Their shoving statistics there shoving deaths into this category in order to accelerate the idea of the
toll and to make things look worse than they are probably because they want. They want to see, make sure the trump isn't real
this obviously being what would have been discussed in the
You know in the summer and early fall.
and now there is a vaccine- and it's like I'm- not gonna, take it. So you take it. I'm not gonna take it, but I think those people are
all the same people and it doesn't make logical
and so if you're gonna stay, walk masking you're going to say the vaccine doesn't wasn
as bad as as as people said, and then, of course, there is the staff,
even say for the sake of argument that the debt only nights
it's a five hundred and forty thousand people is exaggerated by half. I don't think
that is a fair thing to say, but I've just throwing out so its two hundred
seventy thousand people
that already makes it the most
dangerous epidemic in a hundred years, and you dont, like the math
king and you dont like this. If you dont like that and you dont like the vaccine, so the other
his answer to vaccine hesitancy, is we're gonna work
wear masks rather year and a half, but as far as
I can tell the people that I'm hearing from where people who can't
the mask mandates or dont, want to wear masks, but they don't want to do anything to mitigate the spread
because they want to believe that it is up to what it is in front of our eyes and that's what makes me angry, I would be, will
We to accept the notion that that I will not take a vaccine and in exchange for
I'm taking a vaccine. I will where two masks for another year in order either. If I get
but not to spread to other people who also might not be getting at or whatever
These are at least agree to call the test before you get on an airplane or like region called it before. You demand
Not here Jim website.
it's not as though the big government,
forcing you in jail. Now it saying: ok. Well, then you ve gotta do this, instead of making something what I'm sorry to keep talking about this, but you know there's
yeah. There's like this fantastic good news today, my it as far as I'm concerned, because it
it involves, like my kids and Christine's kid, so Pfizer announced that there was a hundred percent.
according to their trial of four thousand kids. So far between the ages of twelve and fifteen,
there was a hundred percent reduction. There was a hundred percent safety
four thousand kids tested for
for the Pfizer vaccine and it is entirely safe for them, which means that, judging
I have a fourteen year old Christine has fourteen year olds are our kids might be able to get vaccinated and any argument that will be made that they can't do anything can play
barks can't go to school. All of that will have a ready,
aid answer: witches drop dead, they're, going back to school, your
get it from them. They're not getting it. So stop with your bullshit. Already
My only hesitation on the on the optimism here is that once there,
is a safe vaccine, all
teachers, unions, gonna, refuse to return to the classroom until every single child is vaccinated. That's going to take time, probably hit. So I'm that's. My only concern now you're right, but here you know something speaking of teachers and unions. Here
There are teachers making us
think because they don't want
get the vaccine and they think that that's so what are? They should be allowed to go back to teaching, even
you know it's the opposite here. Also it like that's against my civil rights, and you say you were in bed,
because it is so far what's happened. One of the reasons that they keep shutting down the school than reopening certain grades has to do with the fact that the kids went back. This
and then teachers spread of the virus.
the kids are other creatures. You now is not the way that the last thing I want to say and the civil liberties point, because I it's you know I'm a
I'm I'm I'm not at civil libertarian the sense it it's not my highest and foremost value. But it is you know, but I must have a libertarian like any more.
taken as a civil libertarian is that there are
conditions under which civil liberties are compromised and those are
Emergency is, if you live in a free. If you live in a place where there is a nuclear accident and made they announced that you can't go back to your house where you live
I've come out and you can't go back to your house. They can shot off your land from you because
something terrible is happening. If you know, there's a
you know, when nine eleven happens, the military took over
lower Manhattan verbatim,
the lower Manhattan was under martial law. This is the United States. If that's what we martial law was it. It was a colossal emergency. When there's a war people get drafted. Drafts are, of course, unbelievable
All infringements on on civil liberties and freedom, and yet the safety of the country and the future of the country's experiment have to be protected and a an epidemic is now
and so tat your civil liberties arts,
You can't even emergencies. We are forced to wear seat
Watson helmets and were for an you're not allowed to drive them right. Although those are weird that, though those those go in a different direction, could of course
don't have to drive a car like no one's making you you can walk everywhere. Whatever you know, it's like a butt.
no one is saying that everybody. There should be a law that
everyone, should get vaccinated in the United States,
But the notion that a you you you get to do every
thing that everybody else does when you
Formatively refuse to participate in them,
a geishas, have shot the country down to some extent for a year that that is
violation of the social compact and the soul
Contract as as as far as I'm as far as I'm concerned, I'm Israel's got a different. Israel does never constitution so
you know, and then are we not remember John saying to you, I'm really
Beginning you said that you took a long walk one day when you were going nuts under lock down and I said,
Really you are allowed to go that far, and what do you mean who allowed United will, where only allowed, to go a hundred metres from our front door and
John dumping. Let me, ah, we
What do you mean allowed? Where were
literally not allowed
without a mask. You know you get a fine and things like tat. We were not allowed, it was so he got yeah. You know right anyway,
so that was then Ruthie. Could you give us a picture
our hopes of, like you, know, raising our spirits about the prospect of what a lot large scale. Vaccine penetration looks like
what's going on and in Israel now I mean that was the first thing that's going on is the second we openly
airport on Israelis flag.
I don't get workin we got weaken. We got em in that. Not every country is letting people in both its life.
First of all, suddenly and Israel.
went to the Sinai. The open day, tat by crossing
into the cyanide and dumb Israelis.
Are all flooding, the mall shopping, chopping shopping and indeed,
phase and in restaurants, and now it's interesting because we're still supposed to wear a mask because
the health Ministry, has yet said,
hey you don't have to win your outdoors, not yet, but it, but what they were apparent,
The police are no longer giving out tickets if you're not wear masks and
the family, the funniest part about it all is that even the biggest hysterics there are these health authorities here who have been
can't hued celebrities, I'm telling you it's like a reality shop. I've met
you're lucky as an Israeli. If you knew the health minister was let alone, let alone the
The Eu Health Ministry or the head of this house
that that hospital in the Koran via resolve these people on television all the time
including with cameras in their homes, and, let's see how you ve been in the hospital for today is how are your children managing and all that, so they become
huge celebrities and I began to suspect that may be the reason that they were not happy jack.
Out of this crisis is that they're gonna go back into him immediately and the funny part is even the biggest
hysterics among them, who kept saying, don't get too optimistic,
don't get too optimistic,
they are grudgingly acknowledging that they said. Look
foreign came and went in,
didn't have a spike. Even now, a lot of people violated the rules and had poor and parties in the black parties, not to mention mass demonstrations against me now
they did. They have to grudgingly admit that the rate of
section has gone way down and the hospitalizations have weighed down and that this vaccine is working like a charm. Well, we'll see
it was, it was we'll see what we'll see what number of a barrack a vaccinated Americans tips that bound
workers, as we ve, been saying for four months. That is obviously
The thing that is having
similar effect here that dumb
You don't get on tv as as as a doctor, and your contract on CNN will not be renewed. If you say you know what it's over
neither did you know and those contracts there's a lot of money,
flowing there, and so people have a kind of suddenly.
we have a kind of vested interests.
The same you know, even without a name and shame absolutely
we have known, who doktor factually even was that person in that job,
You, wouldn't even no doubt the government officials,
becomes a celebrity is a very dangerous toxic mixed to extract, what's its better believe, it
that covers a magazine. They love it. They love him
ro that he drank you so much for being with us. This sum unprecedented look,
gathered at another country's electoral Qatar catastrophe
today, as we as well
regarding our own. With that day did makes makes you feel a little better about our system, which we of course do nothing, but
go in way against. So so thanks so much you and I will
what's up later and for remember that mug keep the camera
burning commentary magazine, podcast mug at March, DOT commentary magazine dot com, where you can also get your keep the camel burning. T shirt, your crushing Moreau
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Transcript generated on 2021-07-28.