Welcome to the commentary magazine. Billy podcast today is Wednesday March thirty. First, twenty twenty one, I'm John Paul towards the editor of Commentary Magazine nor Kathryn is out today and tomorrow with me as always: executive editor, Amory, Malta, I hadda Senora, Christine rose and high. Christine again, and joining us from TEL Aviv columnist for the Jerusalem Post columnist for the jewish NEWS service editor, George no service commentator on every israeli television programme. You can possibly imagine, and my sister Ruthie bloom High Ruthie again, okay, so before we get to he's a deep analysis of the of the ongoing and never ending israeli political electoral crisis. I just want to report to us

provided that we have a new piece of commentary March in the March store are at merge. Dot commentary magazine dot com, it is a mug. It is a key point. candle burning Commentary magazine, podcast, mug, beautiful black, with red tied white type and its Beautiful design by are our director and publisher Carol. Mosque got twenty bucks for the. Blog. If you didn't want the t shirt, if you don't want to tell bag, if you didn't want the sweatshirt gag, software mug, it's a high quality mug. We we made sure to get the best possible mug that you could possibly have, because you are a special to us. And me- and we want you to enjoy your coffee as you listen to the commentary magazine pack has so much that commentary magazine dot com for they keep the candle burning

commentary magazine, podcast mug. Twenty bucks get you a mug go. There do thou. Likewise, now Ruthie leaving our Lisbon Prime Minister, since two thousand nine is now twenty twenty one, and for the last two years he has had to call for elections, because his government couldn't survive that at each given point. The fourth election took place, It was like ten days ago some like that, our we gotta go anyway, some some points and the twenty third. Yes, a week ago. Yesterday. Ok, so jointly, besides nine days ago, right, ok, so it's mine days ago and the his party. We could has the most see to needs. sixty one sees the former government liquid has thirty.

the next party, which is led by which is the premier Anti Baby Party. Let's just put it that way, run by yeah you're, lucky aviation teed has seventeen. I believe and the baby coalition, as it is currently constituted, has about fifty two, see it's out of the sixty one needed the anti, because listen with the largest share coming from yeah yeah fatigue a few more fifty five, fifty six, fifty seven, neither of them right now can form a government. So there's gotta be a fifth election, or do you think that baby can pull another rabbit out of his hat and nth jury rig something so that he gets the sixty once it. I think tat then another election, because in the first place

see how anyone can form a coalition. It's not just met and now, in fact, Netanyahu it has a greater possibility of forming a coalition than the others, but even if the others do form a coalition it, one that will last maybe a year. If that- and the reason is that, though, the way this has been reported is that this is a problem that I now versus Anti Netanyahu election. In fact, right wing in Israel overwhelmingly one they select. When you mean overwhelmingly what you mean does not only in the number of seats, but I think the member that, though, that doesn't work that way right. The number I get gas so that the parties, the study, the the right wing parties, as you might call them if then we joined together, they are drawing together. There wouldn't be

real easy coalition- and there is where the like- sixty five seattle- something like ok easily, so the public is overwhelmingly right when we're ok and the this is not the way things are counted Finally in a system like this, if you, if you count the aggregate vote like the aggregate popular vote, I think didn't they we could end up with. Even though we killed only has half the number of seats necessary right. Only too the coalition it got about forty seven percent of the vote or something I'm doing of that a million it got a million votes and that your, how yeah, maybe it's forty seven percent, but the legal party is not the only one, in fact the Likud Party is actually the centre. Although the enemies China portrayed as the far right or something

Actually, if anything is centre right, it's really good. And the reason that this election is being called Pro, letting our hand in it and now is precise, They because some of the right wingers are doing everything they can to oust net anyhow and therefore did not join the coalition, the natural coalition for them so they're entails teenager parties right to parties one one line is yet Mina right, one is Mina, headed by enough tally, Bennett and he has been trying desperately to to become. Prime Minister, in the last few days, because one of which he didn't even pass the threshold after trying to do that, you didn't even get into the classic and briefly He was defence minister in

Netanyahu's interim government too, elections ago, but so he's one of them and adhere to the right of Netanyahu and the other is given saw, who created a broke off from legal very recently, to form some the New Hope Party, where he was speak. He was the speaker of the connected, so he was the look. He was the head of the. We call on both the galleys many now go, many jobs, and we could. He was been he's been different, hadn't different ministries and he tried unsuccessfully, to run in a primary ITALY, could against it and now and lost very badly so he left politics briefly and came back and then recently he formed his own party. Now his politics are like those of light

put some people stay here to the right of Netanyahu, is well now, both he and love Taliban, it fair way worse than the poles had predicted. Originally, the pulse predicted that each of them would get double digit amount of seeds, and neither did it one that seven states, the other, got six seats, but there, its together, would Netanyahu a coalition right wing coalition. But they don't want to do that because they want baby out Balfour as what they say about forests be addressed, the street name of the Prime minister's residents in Jerusalem. Workload. Ten Downing street Balfour so slow and and the sole purpose of their candidacies is to be anti baby.

Yes, and except enough Dolly Bennets case it's, he want to be prime Minister as opposed to didn't sign, and even the evil appeared. The heavier shouted the next biggest party. Even here You have said: ok, fine I'll forfeit being Prime Minister as long as we check met them out I'll form, any kind of coalition just to get him out, but not tally, Bennett actually wants to be. Prime Minister, he wants to lead the shock of the brigade again Psmith. I now know let's talk about what this means politically goes on the american context. This is none then sickle beyond belief, though not necessarily in the israeli political conduct, which is that not tally. Bennet, who was a close, a to baby and then fell out with him in a deeply personal fashion.

In some manner relating to babies, wife, Sarah at ten years ago: Bennett Would have been the natural successor to maybe in some sense politically ideologically has many things in common with baby speaks. English very well has an entrepreneurial business, background, various other things, but they they have it. They have a deep personal hostility to each other, but the weird p, about this. Is that bet it wants to be prime minister and there's all this maneuvering about whether something good happen where he could be his party, one seven sweets out of a hundred and twenty. So at trade seven feet he doesn't even half of that's like five percent or something from a half per cent the guy said, and he is somehow most of them bill

the coalition in which he becomes he. Generally speaking, you call somebody like this, a king maker, because he has a small number of votes. That can, you know, form or destroy coalition, but the king maker doesn't becoming king by definition because he doesn't have a white exactly so you have this thing: we're babies got thirty seeds, he's got seven and somehow the guy seven swedes, who has very much the same ideological proclivities is the guy with thirty is somehow gonna end up being the Minister, when the public had a chance to pick him over the other and didn't it. Sir. It's it's shook. As we say in the eye, It is there to make matters more common Katy. There's another right wing party that we haven't mentioned and that's party.

cod is obeyed, pay now in its headed by a vague Donley Bergman, and none of these four elections would it bend or none of the last three would have happened, had Liebermann not at the last minute. He was the king in the first round of elections two years ago and when that election was over meting out declared victory because he had a clear majority and Liebermann said I changed my mind. Joining you or anybody else, and he is responsible for how many were in right. Now I mean that he is not responsible for the mess, since then but he has been refusing to join the canal, all so big personal rivalry right, ok, so this is this is the

though the state of play. So let's let pull back and make us less tactical or structural and more more historical, so baby has been prime minister for twelve years through, I guess five elections, the first one he wanted them or maybe seven elections. I don't have something like that and there is a classic rule of thumb in democratic countries with the possible. The exception of the United States in the middle of the unknown, middle of the World WAR two, which is that damn you just you can't they in power that long, uninsured Thirdly, Merkel has been in power that ok, but she and she's done by the way she asked her last reaction. She was cooked and she said I understand that

I have overstayed my welcome so when this, when this term is over I'm gone. Tony Blair I mean you can name you could it did. This is that there is a there is ass, her world historical fact, including in state governor stuff, like that in the United States. It just too much people get bored the play, ecosystem can't handle it. They ve had enough. There's scandals that divide even though I think we ve had you on before, to talk about babies, the three this, the three doubt- and I went to baby- that you think- and I think and allowed people think are pretty garbage, but he is under, but he is sort of now that the trials are commencing. So there's always a corrupt staff tired stuff in all of that and and you know baby in some natural sense after the, ability to win one of these

for elections Outrider per hour or easily, or something like that in a more then she political moment he probably would have given up the ghostly, would have looked at things and said: look I had this fantastic run, then you know. Obviously people are tired. I can't do this anymore, so he decided. to do that and here's the irony, that's what I wanted to talk to about online the last couple of elections, the last twelve months of babies, Prime Minister ship have arguably been the most Success will not only of his tenure, but if any demo, Craddock leaders in the world to these two. historic and mass of accomplishments, one, the able am accords the peace, the peace with the EU I and you know various other rain.

By Raymond wow with the with the near intimation that Saudi Arabia, maybe close at hand, That's number one in the number two was this astonishing Explanation achievement that we can also go into later under new or political circumstances or under a normal understanding of politics. He should be coasting. Two landslide victory is: he has proven at a moment of both crisis, an opportunity to have pulled skills, and you know, and managerial skills- and this deal that he struck with Pfizer on on I'm getting this massive amount of vaccination on the grounds that Israel could serve as these sort of petri dish test case. You know,

global study for the for the viability of the of the Pfizer biotech vaccine and here he is one election later. The last election, he got thirty seven seeds and this time he got thirty, that's crazy! No, I mean Can you give me a sense? It isn't it isn't, because if those two parties Bennett, and saw if they hadn't ass split and if they have been against him personally You want to be coasting into the premiership again and benefits for him Part was running on the ticket. That Netanyahu failed at the corona virus handling, which is ridiculous to put it mildly, but that's because until the vaccines came, everyone was blaming the ten both for the deaths

you know for the patients there, the critical patients in the desk and for the demise of the economy, which it hasn't die If there are thing, but a lot of people lost their jobs in small businesses closed so until the vaccination campaign he was being blamed for that and and once the vaccination campaign happens, a lot of people Forgave him for that, but then it continued to say he handled the crisis badly. That's number one over to where the Abraham accords are concerned, the English. Ok. So far we ve been talking about his his enemies on the right his enemies on the left, never give him credit for anything and they met Them were kind of happy about the Abraham accords to because the Palestinians weren't included in the deals and so software

as from the outside, you say look into it and look what let these incredible achievements, but the left things that need now is at fault for lack of peace with the Palestinians. You think so. In some ways they considered that great achievement to be severely lack, how much today, how much does his personal style of politics, because if we do you ve both mentioned several leader. Sue now no longer know who dislike him intensely and are acting on that politically, because they had a personal break with him. How much does his style impacts? The real this recent election, because we talk a lot about here on here about like Andrew Cuomo and the sort of shewbread of some of our leaders in the U S and how that weirdly doesn't get reflected.

In some of the pulling data friend support for them. What do you see about Netanyahu's particular personality that that might have benefited him at the beginning of his political life, but in some ways is curdled public opinion about it? Now, that's that's a good question because I think that over the years even his worst enemies. Grudgingly! I admit that he's statesman, like presentable, the opposite of what American said about Donald Trump. For example, even many trunk supporters it allows the porters never accused him of being trump like, but his detractors often do and and in order to make fun of ham or below oh him in some way in his personal demeanor, they go after his and his son, his

hold your son, who is also on twitter all the time, and I must say if I were, that kid's mothers. Got a kid, is twenty eight or something I've smack since facing tell him to stay off. Somebody can do leave it until a kid, but only because if you now have home, you know doesn't exactly have a job and if I were his mother, certainly if I were the father, I tell him to stop doing that. But that's one way that his enemies get too The other is by saying he has killed israeli democracy, which of course, is nonsense over questions to sticking with the mention of Trump here, something that we return to unpack cast. A lot is disputed question of those trump destroy everything he touches, so in what sense, to what degree has

babies, close relationship with Trump I'm come into play this time round, and particularly also who took to what extent has the fact the Trump loss than now. fighting in White House who spent the first No, how long, how many days at this point when what it was before he reached it, to the baby from the oval office. Well, that's also that's a great question. I think that by election had a lot to do with these desolate result in the sense that it provided Netanyahu. Enemies on the left, in particular, ok enemies on the right have the bigger problem in this respect, because his enemies and the right also loved Trump so they loved trumps policies, but the left he didn't trump

and hated Netanyahu for many of the same reasons and so what what bag the election help them do was especially at the height of the pandemic, and a lot more dead people and all that just say: ok, it can now has destroyed Israel's relationship with the democratic party in the United States and we need somebody who's, gonna, heal the rift he said so it had an effect. There's no question but again can didn't happen in effect and the general public- not really the general public is right wing. So that's why this election has been called as it This election is not divided along left and right lines, but rather there along pro and Anti Semitism now lines. And the one thing I wanted to respond to John. What you said before that leaders wearing it

you're welcome after so many years, and that's true but here's my question to you. If you look at the result of these elections, and you see Nathaniel, Owsley or way ahead of every other party, including then the second largest. Then you have Ask yourself really. He should step down. He should step aside when he garnered more votes than any by anybody else mean that's also kind. You have to say what leader does that you quit when you're ahead, I mean that's the question to no look, I I I I think, that's the absolute the case, I'm just saying that that that what you, what you have here and whether it's because get on saw, ran or about it, the desert in obsolete Liebermann that that be, is party lost, twenty percent of its seats, but-

from one election to the next. After a year in which he was about tested and and- and I did was part of the most creative diplomatic achievement of the twenty first century and with test did sorely and as the election as people were going to the Poles ages, it strikes me, I'm not there, but it strikes me that there should have been the surge of national pride in the in the notion that this little country somewhere was leading the world in the in the escape from or the emergence from this vote. Worldwide, virus crisis and in dad it's not that he got his hand. I handed to him, but you know it shouldn't. Have in that way somehow that that's all I'm

That's all I'm saying with solid Bennet did well right here. You yourself were saying that between Bennett and far, they got thirteen see its or something like that- and I bet it is arguable I mean this is that this is the most bizarre part of this. If it were not for the personal animosity between them and the personal and that had been it sort of like the either band himself or get banished from babies, inner circle or something like that. Better absolutely the air, theoretically, an baby doesn't want an air he never wanted. This is his terrible in my this is his terrible political mistake that he has now generated for himself, which is that he can't a empower forever. Whenever There's going to be five elections that are entirely based on the idea that he cannot maintain even governments

it's been two years for elections in two years, even if he forms this government. It won't last very long, so he is now a week later, not a strong leader, although when he is a leader, he then is a strong eager, but over time, because all those accomplishments that you men, she'd, never happened. He was in the midst of a huge coalition crisis in fighting, I mean that's the incredible thing. I have to say that the way in which met them now is so incredible. I'm even when you can't stand him, you say he has this ability to function on its, not just those do accomplishments. Let's not forget another important one throughout this entire, area that we're talking about a repeated elections he has been fighting. a shadow war, I'm not so shadow with IRAN.

in Syria and even in IRAN itself, he get out that that's all. Small thing you know we're sitting here safely because of him now Here's one other complication. I want to see pattern of Taliban its borders. It's not merely that they want him to be Nathaniel's air, so to speak they their problem? Is they blame Netanyahu for not extending sovereignty to dance Amerika and the Jordan Valley, which meting out did not do because the Trump Administration asked that here, I find that so that he could get those Abraham accords signed, and he did that and that it is also an example of his leadership, so you know I'm not so sure that that enough I bet it is an heir to Lee. Could in that sense, I like what one thing on the air point. I

really interesting because democracies tend to punish the people who say it's my turn now? Because I know that this was the Hillary Clinton problem right she's, like I've, done everything I'm supposed to I've, checked every box, it's my turn and the voters punished for that people like Trump, obviously dont want airs because that dear detracts attend you remember, we ve never really had a good system, at least in the: U S where you can even groom and air voters tend to punish anyone whose given that designation, because it's kind of scene is unfair right. We want to throw everybody into the ringing picker. We one is that this is the same. I think you're like where do you? Why has Netanyahu done then have previous leaders successfully done that in a way that he could have mere. But it wont let me in no tongue out, because here's the thing the tunnels and great leader- and he has very severe character flaws. dear ones. I ended up. Let's not forget his the human being as well, and so on

from having a big ego and all the other things that you now I mean he's the politician he surely doesn't believe than anybody else could lead Israel, the way he does now, he could be right, but recently. Somebody pointed out something very important legal asked leader in Israel who live, so long, not as long as Netanyahu. Almost David Ben Worryin than Israel first Prime Minister, and he a huge figure. I mean he established a state. Then I mean he was a powerhouse and charismatic and all that, and when and who succeeded. Him was levied phone nobody really heard them today. Nobody really mentions him, but he turned I have to be a fine prime minister, so assumption we'll have been bringing data that ok. So we don't have another knit right now on this and that,

political seems somewhat, so so that means we can never have another leader, of course, not an there's truth, and that too, democracies or Vienna were represented, representative republics or whatever you want to call them r R. the the leaders abilities talents, vision than all of that is supposed to emanate from the public. Not there they're, not you know it's not out of their own heads like like Athena, they're they're supposed to Marshall, a kind of representative opinion in the vast centre and then execute, and so in theory, if israeli democracy as either healthy or whatever it is some will come along and have the same kinds of possibilities in their quiver and baby has done, and in an extraordinary thing,

but you know if he were hit by a truck tomorrow, somebody else would become prime minister, and I don't think we would then assume that the country with slide into the Mediterranean because somebody else was was in. It was an unarmed Balfour straight. You know it's a dna. He can make that mistake and obviously He can believe that no one can do what he did and that the country can survive him but weak, but you know Jim speaking democratic populations, should not think that way and you know I. On the other hand, it I've said he laughed too long. You made a mistake in outs or elections. All this but again the last year has been the capstone or a cornerstone of his of his achievements, which are you know, believable considerable right, Bob Job, beginning and in two thousand and nine, you know he

systematically side. The Palestinian Authority seems to have eliminated the Hamas as as a threat in Gaza, the shadow war against IRAN, including you know all that stuff that we don't know about, that related to the Degradation of IRAN's nuclear programme capped Hezbollah from waging war in the north, somehow again. We don't quite know how far from Lebanon extended all these diplomatic relationships belong. Before the Abraham Accords Writer, outside of the relationship with the United States, to strengthen its position in all these places and helped shepherd both this

Amateur oilfields discovery am Guenaud were the growth of Israel's, economy? Now, Israel's? What the twenty? Eighth of the twenty seventh richest country in the world, the a I mean he didn t doesn't deserve credit for precisely, but he also didn't, show get in its crab the ways in our that he didn't do things. That would would that what we would have retarded the growth away. Other politicians, my it's an unbelievable set of accomplishments, and yet there he is with thirty, instead of thirty, six or thirty cents Then I mean that's, that's the that's the little thing that you know it serve hard to get away from it seems to me, and we don't none of the one thing we got now here is had he stepped down before this election. How many Cecily could would have gotten? That's what we don't know. What we know is everybody says He went only quit we

have a government in five minutes. That's the other. I mean anybody hid the his detractors say that, and I say really because because the electoral system here is crucial, the anyway. Ok, every idiot can fly a party and by the way, I just think it's insane how many parties ran in this election. To mention the amount. The past the threshold but there were thirty nine parties running. I mean it's crazy. It's everybody with some beginners some idea has to run many of these parties shouldn't be separate. That's an labour are exactly the same. There our many similarities among their religious, Is there a similarity in the point? Is that you know it be so much easier as it is in the United States in some respects that you have basically the Democrats and the Republicans in its not when you vote for a democratic candidate

the you love everything about the party. Of course not. You know, what's inside your on when you choose aside- and here it's like you, how can you do the sign among fifty sides and good? So so you know that's what we don't now I am sometimes. I really would love to tell everybody really. You think that ok, let's see what happens when babies I'm is finished. Then, let's see who how we vote because I personally would still vote. We could, even though there are many people in that party, I can't stand, but I would vote for it because it's the clue to my arm to my ideology and acknowledges centrist, but not its not left wing in it. not far right wing and its inner? So I would still vote for that party listen. This is enough to give you just talking about. This is enough to give you back. So if you want to avoid a backache, you wanna,

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vaccination stuff, like that, we are now in a day three, this week of a kind Diversity with our with our listeners, in many of whom our emailing me and I saw it in great anger, because I have been very insulting about vaccine hesitancy over the course of this week. I am annoyed I can't take it anymore. I want to get out of this, and I have these people say: well, it's not really tested, and how do you know my children? I don't want my children too, I mean listen use dead. Everyone said last your trust, the science and you know what look what happened there with top telling what Matthew should where now they say you should get, vaccine and the vaccine doesn't have enough studies and trials and blah blah blah, blah blah, which is actually not true as in point of fact

I was looking up and you know that Pfizer vaccine alone had a trial of forty five thousand people, which I was the largest clinical trial. In the history of the world, larger than the trial of the polio vaccine ass. I looked it up at night and fifty three meetings before and the other vaccines and everything like that. So I'm I'm mad that I'm like. I don't care, whether you don't get a vaccine. Passport. You know what's that, if I don't get it, then we should have a vaccine passport. If you don't get it stay home and rot in your in your dungeon, because interested in you, I was in me and my family to remain in this condition of frozen. This I'll give it. There is a slight silver lining, too. That response are beginning from our listeners. In this sense, a lot of them want to very deliberately distinguish their feelings about this vaccine.

from the crazy anti back. Sir Robert Kennedy types who think all back scenes are terrible and you have a sort of ideological, has staked out ideological grounds for years on childhood vaccination. So I actually think that's apposite. sign because their hesitant but they're not anti backs, and I think that distinction matters to them it it doesn't, in effect your right on. It has no effect on where they get. You know, there's no, getting a vaccine, that's bad! I agree, but there's a way to bring them round, and I think that it's it's important I acknowledge that they're not like the crazy anti factors that we generally know and then and dislike it, you know I mean they're there. Their data there near the slightly near phobic people who don't really trust what big fat miss telling them- and I have sympathy for their that perspective, even as I hope they out- grow it, because we need as many shots in as many arms is Basel showcase. So I agree with you: I'm I'm, I'm I'm by the way, I am deliberately making fun of my own view maker

extreme, so that people should understand that this is an emotional response that I am making, but so is theirs. I mean that that's the point they people are claiming that their vaccine, hesitancy or whatever is based on a healthy scheme this isn't about how data there been and how this is gone and all of that and that's all well and good, and that sounds really nice and no, there care to that end that's an emotional response and Axiom hesitancy may look to them or believe they may believe in their own heads that their feelings about this are related to. You no serious- you now concerns where they, you know, but there are also not epidemiologists and they're, not scientists and stuff, like that. They're just like

You know, I don't know you know. Maybe this will happen in something battle happen, so I don't want to. I don't want to be a guinea pig is essential, but what they're saying you're turning everybody to a guinea pig and I'm sorry, but you know we ve all been guinea pigs for the last year we ve been guinea pigs in a world in which there is a virus loose in the end in the world, and so, if you're saying look, I don't think I'm gonna get it so or if I get it, it won't kill me so I. Forget it did not get it or it won't kill me or I probably won't get a cause, I'm not old. I don't have co morbidity them young about all this. So if you're not gonna, get it you're getting a vaccine which gives you a little bit of it or you know, interrupted

its effect on you're on your honor. In our view, this are unable stoppage thing. Why are you hesitate? Braille I'd want Rev one. I mean there's a shirt compelling logic to those who say because this a new vaccine technology. We don't have the results of became. Possibly know what potential effects it has long term ten twenty thirty years down the line. Fine, I get that, but the truth is nothing. has ever been introduced to the public that is endured, a lifetime of testing. First right, you don't you don't test out a hundred a century to make sure that that there is no long term damage of four four? For anything I mean, if that were the case, we'd still be waiting, or polio, and whatever else

the MRI Rna technology that is behind Pfizer, end and Madonna was deploy The idea that this was the way to stop this virus was poor in March of last, dear. It's not like. It was September some of the old. Let's try this in September, and then it was entered in December, the the idea behind this technology was you know and this, and that this would be the way to go started almost from the outset of the knowledge that the that the that the virus was growing global, so it was nine months, not three months not for months. It was nine months and it was a gigantic things were to gigantic trials and now this is where I want to bring up Ruth you're so and then and then Bay Similarly there is in one entire country on the planet earth that has that that whose private

MR went to they had a Pfizer made. Thirty four called to him and said so the doses- and we will be your- we will be the proven ground, because Now we can survive this if we can't get out of that were too small were too you know, will we do not, we need so we need to get Looking again at that, that was a real. You know a real achievement and there's a lot of vaccine hesitancy in Israel Rye rule. There is a lot that can be as much as it feels as though there is only because of it A number of people have been vaccinated so far I mean since off. Five million people have been vaccinated with boss doses in Israel, in a population of nine million many of whom are under age. Sixteen, then, if you do them,

You realize that it's a huge percentage, but what disturbing to me about the hesitancy in Israel is that there are few, one is. When I first came to Israel, I was shocked to meet many people who had had polio the ones who survived it, that is on crutches in wheelchairs. I was kind of surprise because growing up in the United States even though I am at that age group. I didn't know people who had had polio and in Israel, there were many, ah thing around and that's number one number two right before the pandemic, struck. We had an outbreak of the measles. If you will remember, it was worldwide, and Israel was hit particularly hard because two groups

both in America and in Israel. Who were not vaccinating their child. for the measles, where the tree, hackers and the ultra orthodox midnight all and again I have to stress this: it wasn't all I'll try worth it acts. It was certain sex, but it began to after we had had achieved, heard immunity. This destroying the herd, immunity and to run out and get measles vaccines, because it turns out that I was, I missed the boat I was to older to younger whatever to old I've missed by a year when I was little so I had to get the measles vaccine because it was being transported. And allow flights between New York and Israel in I run a because we were all locked down and were wearing masks and everything that we have heard about new measles out measles case, because

weren't around each other to catch the measles. But what was this? Durban to me, was every com that I wrote about vaccines and about and in an in praise of vaccines. got such vicious com. it's more than I get vicious columns about my problems all the time, but these were really vicious and asked to two until count one the most Gusting was comparing this to mingle. Is experiments took competitors to Holocaust both as an expert like that we were experts. Being experimented on by big farmer which is absolutely not only is an absurd, but it's just immoral to make that comparison and the other was that it was like selection in the Holocaust, because, if you're not vaccinated, you may not be allowed into your neighborhood swimming pool. Unless you shall the

a negative Colvin test. Now, I'm sorry those camps our sins are so immoral that I can't I don't even know where to begin. I'm it's one thing: to be hesitant about vaccine you're afraid wondered what what effect it will have. Long term, though, apparently have had called it can have long term effects. People who have had it are going. Don T, be here and saying you know, I didn't believe I thought covered with nothing I believe in the vaccine sea the now please Vulcan vaccinated years at my hearing as affected my balance as effective. Apparently, the disease also has long term effects. So You know the fear of the vaccine as opposed to the disease. me. A little silly and especially when, especially when, when its it shone already, we ve seen people who already had it we're having serious problems there

it's strange? Isn't it because I'm glad you mention lockdown than how that has changed were without with measles cases, because I think in a weird way here, in the? U S in particular the year of living on lockdown and that sort of many cases, sometimes extreme fearmongering by public health professionals, but but in general, the kind of overall sense that, while this is a completely different universe, has has created in a lot of people habits of mind about what level of of risk is it safe and what level of risk is intolerable and tolerance for risk is way down, understandably, but strangely does then, when it comes to taking a new vaccine to till to limit the situation regarding per year. The top since your risk is remains very low, and I think that place to end I mean there's a kind of. I really think these long term habits of mine that reform being unlike those produced, those of us who ban in cities were the lockdown have been a year.

Erin schools have been closed in and normal life really hasn't still in some cases, hasn't resumed, changes how you approach new things and changes, how you accept rest in a bad way, and in this case I think well, I'm in the way of a part of the things that I find difficult. to handle announce a pulling away from my emotionalism into something more analytical is that it- just strikes me that the people who are expressing vaccine hesitancy, who are not true, Hungary are the altar Orthodox, both of whom have different attitudes that that govern right though the tree others believe that things like a medicines and vaccines are unnatural. and therefore they are somehow contradictory to where the good working order of man's harmony with nature and are it's bad,

and then there is this in relation to say to the altar Orthodox in Israel. There is some very odd coordination of this idea, that you are somehow interfering with the power working order of nature, as expressed by the divine that, if God wills, that people get covered, God wills that people get covert and then you do you get covet or whatever AOI, throwing herself into the army Hush sham Russia will decide. That's that's it. Those are two weird, those are sort of. That's it. That's that idea about the Organization of the universe. my senses, that among the vaccine, hesitant that I'm hearing from that we're getting letters from an out and all that that These are people who are sceptical about covered from the beginning

and their scepticism shifts em an end and changes depending on the moment. So I wasn't gonna kill you be they. Said you shouldn't whereabouts than they said you should wear masks, so they can't be trusted even when they say, should wear a mask and the mass becomes a. You know a service. A mark, a sign of state control, and you can't believe anything that they say so if they say that you should have the vaccine, why should you trust them the death? all is exaggerated. Their shoving statistics there shoving deaths into this category in order to accelerate the idea of the toll and to make things look worse than they are probably because they want. They want to see, make sure the trump isn't real this obviously being what would have been discussed in the You know in the summer and early fall. and now there is a vaccine- and it's like I'm- not gonna, take it. So you take it. I'm not gonna take it, but I think those people are

all the same people and it doesn't make logical and so if you're gonna stay, walk masking you're going to say the vaccine doesn't wasn as bad as as as people said, and then, of course, there is the staff, even say for the sake of argument that the debt only nights it's a five hundred and forty thousand people is exaggerated by half. I don't think that is a fair thing to say, but I've just throwing out so its two hundred seventy thousand people that already makes it the most dangerous epidemic in a hundred years, and you dont, like the math king and you dont like this. If you dont like that and you dont like the vaccine, so the other his answer to vaccine hesitancy, is we're gonna work wear masks rather year and a half, but as far as I can tell the people that I'm hearing from where people who can't

the mask mandates or dont, want to wear masks, but they don't want to do anything to mitigate the spread because they want to believe that it is up to what it is in front of our eyes and that's what makes me angry, I would be, will We to accept the notion that that I will not take a vaccine and in exchange for I'm taking a vaccine. I will where two masks for another year in order either. If I get but not to spread to other people who also might not be getting at or whatever These are at least agree to call the test before you get on an airplane or like region called it before. You demand Not here Jim website. it's not as though the big government,

forcing you in jail. Now it saying: ok. Well, then you ve gotta do this, instead of making something what I'm sorry to keep talking about this, but you know there's yeah. There's like this fantastic good news today, my it as far as I'm concerned, because it it involves, like my kids and Christine's kid, so Pfizer announced that there was a hundred percent. according to their trial of four thousand kids. So far between the ages of twelve and fifteen, there was a hundred percent reduction. There was a hundred percent safety four thousand kids tested for for the Pfizer vaccine and it is entirely safe for them, which means that, judging I have a fourteen year old Christine has fourteen year olds are our kids might be able to get vaccinated and any argument that will be made that they can't do anything can play

barks can't go to school. All of that will have a ready, aid answer: witches drop dead, they're, going back to school, your get it from them. They're not getting it. So stop with your bullshit. Already My only hesitation on the on the optimism here is that once there, is a safe vaccine, all teachers, unions, gonna, refuse to return to the classroom until every single child is vaccinated. That's going to take time, probably hit. So I'm that's. My only concern now you're right, but here you know something speaking of teachers and unions. Here There are teachers making us think because they don't want get the vaccine and they think that that's so what are? They should be allowed to go back to teaching, even you know it's the opposite here. Also it like that's against my civil rights, and you say you were in bed,

because it is so far what's happened. One of the reasons that they keep shutting down the school than reopening certain grades has to do with the fact that the kids went back. This and then teachers spread of the virus. the kids are other creatures. You now is not the way that the last thing I want to say and the civil liberties point, because I it's you know I'm a I'm I'm I'm not at civil libertarian the sense it it's not my highest and foremost value. But it is you know, but I must have a libertarian like any more. taken as a civil libertarian is that there are conditions under which civil liberties are compromised and those are Emergency is, if you live in a free. If you live in a place where there is a nuclear accident and made they announced that you can't go back to your house where you live I've come out and you can't go back to your house. They can shot off your land from you because something terrible is happening. If you know, there's a you know, when nine eleven happens, the military took over

lower Manhattan verbatim, the lower Manhattan was under martial law. This is the United States. If that's what we martial law was it. It was a colossal emergency. When there's a war people get drafted. Drafts are, of course, unbelievable All infringements on on civil liberties and freedom, and yet the safety of the country and the future of the country's experiment have to be protected and a an epidemic is now and so tat your civil liberties arts, You can't even emergencies. We are forced to wear seat Watson helmets and were for an you're not allowed to drive them right. Although those are weird that, though those those go in a different direction, could of course don't have to drive a car like no one's making you you can walk everywhere. Whatever you know, it's like a butt. no one is saying that everybody. There should be a law that

everyone, should get vaccinated in the United States, But the notion that a you you you get to do every thing that everybody else does when you Formatively refuse to participate in them, a geishas, have shot the country down to some extent for a year that that is violation of the social compact and the soul Contract as as as far as I'm as far as I'm concerned, I'm Israel's got a different. Israel does never constitution so you know, and then are we not remember John saying to you, I'm really Beginning you said that you took a long walk one day when you were going nuts under lock down and I said, Really you are allowed to go that far, and what do you mean who allowed United will, where only allowed, to go a hundred metres from our front door and John dumping. Let me, ah, we

What do you mean allowed? Where were literally not allowed without a mask. You know you get a fine and things like tat. We were not allowed, it was so he got yeah. You know right anyway, so that was then Ruthie. Could you give us a picture our hopes of, like you, know, raising our spirits about the prospect of what a lot large scale. Vaccine penetration looks like what's going on and in Israel now I mean that was the first thing that's going on is the second we openly airport on Israelis flag. I don't get workin we got weaken. We got em in that. Not every country is letting people in both its life. First of all, suddenly and Israel. went to the Sinai. The open day, tat by crossing

into the cyanide and dumb Israelis. Are all flooding, the mall shopping, chopping shopping and indeed, phase and in restaurants, and now it's interesting because we're still supposed to wear a mask because the health Ministry, has yet said, hey you don't have to win your outdoors, not yet, but it, but what they were apparent, The police are no longer giving out tickets if you're not wear masks and the family, the funniest part about it all is that even the biggest hysterics there are these health authorities here who have been can't hued celebrities, I'm telling you it's like a reality shop. I've met you're lucky as an Israeli. If you knew the health minister was let alone, let alone the The Eu Health Ministry or the head of this house

that that hospital in the Koran via resolve these people on television all the time including with cameras in their homes, and, let's see how you ve been in the hospital for today is how are your children managing and all that, so they become huge celebrities and I began to suspect that may be the reason that they were not happy jack. Out of this crisis is that they're gonna go back into him immediately and the funny part is even the biggest hysterics among them, who kept saying, don't get too optimistic, don't get too optimistic, they are grudgingly acknowledging that they said. Look foreign came and went in, didn't have a spike. Even now, a lot of people violated the rules and had poor and parties in the black parties, not to mention mass demonstrations against me now they did. They have to grudgingly admit that the rate of

section has gone way down and the hospitalizations have weighed down and that this vaccine is working like a charm. Well, we'll see it was, it was we'll see what we'll see what number of a barrack a vaccinated Americans tips that bound workers, as we ve, been saying for four months. That is obviously The thing that is having similar effect here that dumb You don't get on tv as as as a doctor, and your contract on CNN will not be renewed. If you say you know what it's over neither did you know and those contracts there's a lot of money, flowing there, and so people have a kind of suddenly. we have a kind of vested interests. The same you know, even without a name and shame absolutely we have known, who doktor factually even was that person in that job,

You, wouldn't even no doubt the government officials, becomes a celebrity is a very dangerous toxic mixed to extract, what's its better believe, it that covers a magazine. They love it. They love him ro that he drank you so much for being with us. This sum unprecedented look, gathered at another country's electoral Qatar catastrophe today, as we as well regarding our own. With that day did makes makes you feel a little better about our system, which we of course do nothing, but go in way against. So so thanks so much you and I will what's up later and for remember that mug keep the camera burning commentary magazine, podcast mug at March, DOT commentary magazine dot com, where you can also get your keep the camel burning. T shirt, your crushing Moreau

Couldn t shorter sweatshirt, your commentary magazine toad bag. Your comment, carry magazine something else. I t t shirt, that's just the commissary magazine logo and, of course our brand new mugwort, twenty bucks that will keep your coffee poor man been fighting merged commentary magazine dot com for steam enabled the absent harassment. I'm John ports keep the candle burning.